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Episode 098 - The Oldest Lesson Some Societies Seem To Forget · Sorta Sophisticated

• 0:04
  Speaker A: Welcome back, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Sort of Sophisticated, where culture, curiosity, and chaos collide. I'm your host, Pete, and with me, as always, is Amanda. Hi, Amanda.
• 0:17
  Speaker B: Hello.
• 0:18
  Speaker A: How are you?
• 0:19
  Speaker B: I'm surviving.
• 0:20
  Speaker A: Great. You look awesome today, by the way.
• 0:22
  Speaker B: Oh, that's very nice of you.
• 0:23
  Speaker A: April Fools. Yeah. How do you like that? Was that a good start or.
• 0:28
  Speaker B: Whoa. Wow.
• 0:29
  Speaker A: Boom.
• 0:30
  Speaker B: It is.
• 0:30
  Speaker A: It is. April Fools have Farmer Amanda over here.
• 0:33
  Speaker B: Wow. Wow. That's how this episode's gonna go today. Here we are. Okay.
• 0:38
  Speaker A: Oh, mo. Okay, so I'm just gonna rip a band aid here. I'm asking you a question. Can I do that?
• 0:44
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 0:45
  Speaker A: It's a little philosophical, because I only ask philosophical questions.
• 0:50
  Speaker B: All right, here we go.
• 0:51
  Speaker A: I think it's actually gonna blow your mind. Are you ready for this?
• 0:53
  Speaker B: All right.
• 0:55
  Speaker A: Who owns the Earth? Who owns the Earth? God. I like that. I don't know either. But this is what sort of inspired this whole.
• 1:05
  Speaker B: Were you, like, inspired because the government bought the domain alien.gov.
• 1:09
  Speaker A: did they do that?
• 1:10
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:10
  Speaker A: Why'd they do that? I don't know. What's happening? Are they out there? Did you ever watch the X Files?
• 1:16
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:16
  Speaker A: With Mulder and Scully. Oh, my God, I loved it. No, so I was thinking, like, depending on who you are, you have different answers. So God is one answer, right? And then I guess if you're, like, an American, you think, oh, I guess we own it. Right? That's sort of culturally where we are. Like, we buy land, we think it's ours. Yeah, right.
• 1:35
  Speaker B: Okay. Where are we going?
• 1:36
  Speaker A: Because then I started thinking about indigenous people, and I was like, well, they didn't really ever think they owned it. They just thought they were in communion with it. So, long story short, I was like, huh? Because it's Earth Day, right? Like, Earth Day's come. Like, it's April. So, April, Earth Day. You know, I was like, very, very. And it just started getting me thinking about, like, all these different perspectives people have on Earth.
• 1:57
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 1:58
  Speaker A: And I thought, let's do an episode on Earth Day. But not really Earth Day, because, I mean, people really want to learn about Earth Day. I mean, I missed. They kind of do, but I like my whole twists, you know, let's do an episode on. But, yeah, we twist it. Yeah. Yeah. So Earth Day's our hook because we try to be topical, right? We try to be, like, pop culture.
• 2:14
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 2:14
  Speaker A: Right.
• 2:15
  Speaker B: Relevant.
• 2:15
  Speaker A: Yes. So it's April, and we can talk about it.
• 2:18
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 2:18
  Speaker A: And I figure we go a little deep and we sort of twist this whole thing up and talk about who really owns the earth and, and what our responsibility is to it. So like that's what's happening.
• 2:26
  Speaker B: Here we are. Wait, so what's our official title? Is it like Doomsday? No, not the Earth is imploding.
• 2:32
  Speaker A: It is. Yes. That's what you know, Amanda, was that an April Fool's joke?
• 2:38
  Speaker B: No, like, seriously, well. Cause like Earth Day always comes because like of magma we always talk about it. I don't know, like we're supposed to love the earth and take care of it. We only have one earth.
• 2:47
  Speaker A: We only have one Earth.
• 2:48
  Speaker B: Yeah, but there's two rabbit holes. The we should take care of it or the we're doomed. So what's our title for this?
• 2:54
  Speaker A: We're going to do the we're going to take care of it.
• 2:55
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 2:56
  Speaker A: I'm not a doomsday. You're the doomsdayer in it. I'm not the doomsdayer. The title is the oldest lesson Some Societies Seem to forget.
• 3:04
  Speaker B: Oh, I like it.
• 3:05
  Speaker A: The oldest lesson Some Societies seem to forget. Yeah.
• 3:07
  Speaker B: I do feel like we forget to like look back in history.
• 3:10
  Speaker A: Oh, we're going to do that today.
• 3:11
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 3:12
  Speaker A: We're going to go back, we're going to go forward, we're going to do a lot of stuff.
• 3:14
  Speaker B: But also, when did Earth Day start?
• 3:16
  Speaker A: Earth day started in 1969.
• 3:19
  Speaker B: Oh, interesting.
• 3:20
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 3:20
  Speaker B: Not that long ago though.
• 3:22
  Speaker A: 50 years.
• 3:22
  Speaker B: Yeah. It's just kind of crazy that like 55 industrial revolution came and that's when society started. Shit. Anyways, before I go down the rabbit hole.
• 3:30
  Speaker A: Of what?
• 3:30
  Speaker B: Of history. Because I'm now hooked and fascinated.
• 3:33
  Speaker A: Let's go. Good, I got you early.
• 3:35
  Speaker B: How does this make us more cultured and curious?
• 3:39
  Speaker A: Let's see here. Because Amanda, I would say that it's kind of the whole premise of our show. It's like why we started this whole thing. Cause it was about learning about not just our culture, but other cultures and other people and like having more self awareness and better perspective. And so if we can appreciate how other cultures think about the Earth, not just ours, then we probably are sort of in line with the whole premise of the show to begin with.
• 4:04
  Speaker B: Fair.
• 4:05
  Speaker A: So I think it sort of just sort of fits in. Good.
• 4:07
  Speaker B: Okay. I think that maybe it's just a California American. We are always told, right, Recycle, reuse, reduce the waste. Right.
• 4:16
  Speaker A: Drive electric cars by 2030 or else.
• 4:18
  Speaker B: Correct. Right. Like we are just always environmental friendly air quotes. But I don't think it's actually in our DNA.
• 4:26
  Speaker A: As Americans, I would agree. Oh, no, absolutely. I have an idea.
• 4:30
  Speaker B: Just for generations and generations, just a different mentality.
• 4:33
  Speaker A: I think we skip to the end. Our call to action should be watch Pocahontas. Because, like, Pocahontas, Disney, they teach you that it's all important stuff and everything's connected. Yes. And she was responsible for her Earth. And besides, it has really good songs and it's nostalgic.
• 4:48
  Speaker B: Did you pick our word of the week from Pocahontas?
• 4:50
  Speaker A: I did not. No. No. Okay, pivoting to word of the week, here we go. Our word of the week is Effulgent. Effulgent.
• 4:58
  Speaker B: Effulgent.
• 4:59
  Speaker A: Effulgent.
• 5:00
  Speaker B: Like, I like to fold.
• 5:01
  Speaker A: No, no, folge fold. Like fold, not fold. F, O, L, D, like, you know,
• 5:07
  Speaker B: it should be called a fold. What, like your fat roll.
• 5:10
  Speaker A: Oh, that would be good. Wow. Did you mean my fat roll? Cause. Wow. No, but, like, that was very painful. No, not you.
• 5:18
  Speaker B: I didn't say you at all.
• 5:19
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 5:20
  Speaker B: Just a fulgent. My fulgent is coming over my pants.
• 5:25
  Speaker A: That's pretty good. Yeah. So that's not what it is at all.
• 5:30
  Speaker B: Nothing to do with excess fat.
• 5:32
  Speaker A: So for today, that's going to be the definition. That's how we're going to be allowed to use it. I like that. No, effulgent means shining brightly, like way out in the sky. But also not just like. I mean, yes, stars are effulgent, but, like, a bride could be a fulgent. Okay, right. Like shining, like radiant, like brilliant. You get the idea. It comes from the Latin eflgeri. Efl. Gary. Efl. Gary, maybe. I don't know which means to shine forth.
• 6:00
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 6:00
  Speaker A: Yeah. So shining out, fulgent, you know, effulgent, or you can use it for fat folds today.
• 6:05
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 6:05
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 6:06
  Speaker B: How's your effulgent haircut coming?
• 6:08
  Speaker A: Is it shining for. What are you saying? Am I shining? Is this. Is this shiny?
• 6:12
  Speaker B: Like, it's going to be an effulgent haircut? It'd be like, how's your effulgent look? Bald head going?
• 6:17
  Speaker A: Look. Right. That's better.
• 6:20
  Speaker B: I'll get you. I'll get it.
• 6:22
  Speaker A: Can we please start the episode now? Do you mind? Okay. All right, so I'm going to table of contents. This. Because I know this is going to be a little weird because we're going all over the place because, like, are we just going to talk about Earth Day? No, we're not. That's bullshit. Here's what's going to happen. First, we're going to talk about the whole modern environmental move, so we get on board with when that happened in, like, Murka and all that kind of stuff. Okay. Then we're gonna go macro and zoom, like, super far out and go back to, like, indigenous cultures and the whole idea about how they already figured it out, like, thousands of years before us and all that kind of stuff. And then my favorite part, we're gonna talk about sort of a little bit of the philosophy behind what I started this whole thing with, which is, who owns the Earth?
• 6:57
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
• 6:57
  Speaker A: God. Right. And sort of where we got off track and who thinks what about the Earth? And sort of the. The philosophical debate, so to speak. And I think we're just going to kind of leave it there and just sort of be happy that we're living on this big round ball and being awesome and trying to be good stewards. Okay, so there we go.
• 7:14
  Speaker B: I'm ready. Let's go.
• 7:15
  Speaker A: All right, so the modern environmental movement. Okay, so most historians agree that this modern environmental movement basically started with a book called Silent Spring written by Rachel Carson in 1962. Silent Spring.
• 7:31
  Speaker B: Okay. What'd she say?
• 7:32
  Speaker A: So apparently, Rachel Carson was a marine biologist and spent most of her life researching ddt. Do you know ddt? Do you remember ddt?
• 7:40
  Speaker B: Isn't that, like, the bad stuff?
• 7:42
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's like that pesticide. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Started, like, after World War II or. I don't know, whatever. They used it during World War II. I don't know. Don't quote me on any of that. So. And all the effects that, like, it had on birds and animals and wildlife and all this kind of shit, and she figured out that basically it was working its way through our whole food chain, like, everything. It was killing insects, then poisoning fish, then ultimately killing all the bird population.
• 8:03
  Speaker B: Circle of life.
• 8:04
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 8:04
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 8:05
  Speaker A: And so her big argument, which doesn't seem very big to us today, of course, but like, back then in 1962 when she wrote the book, was, you know, humans just can't go around doing whatever the hell they want without consequences and sort of the Earth or the world, like, pushing back, okay? And she, like, got laughed at. People thought she was a nut job. They were like, yeah, this is sort of bullshit. Go back to wherever you came from. Like, which totally sucks. So it wasn't until, I guess, CBS picked up her book or whatever, some. And then, like, they interviewed her in 1963 on live TV. And then because of that, JFK got involved, right at the Time he was United States and he ordered, like, a full investigation, was like, okay, maybe she's onto something. And because of that, it took off. Like, people were like, oh, well, now we all of a sudden have to listen. So for the first year and a half, she was told she was a nut case, magically gets on tv. Thank God she did. And then JFK takes it from there.
• 9:00
  Speaker B: Right, okay.
• 9:00
  Speaker A: And then the sad part, a year later, 1964, she died.
• 9:05
  Speaker B: Or was she unalived by somebody?
• 9:07
  Speaker A: No, by ddt, probably.
• 9:09
  Speaker B: I mean.
• 9:09
  Speaker A: Right, because she ate some bad fish. That's terrible. I have no idea. I'm praying for you, Rachel Carson. That is not true. She died. That's all I know.
• 9:18
  Speaker B: Okay, so is that the reason that started Earth Day? Like, JFK coming in and, you know,
• 9:23
  Speaker A: JFK got blown away. That is not how Earth Day got started.
• 9:26
  Speaker B: That's a horrible joke.
• 9:28
  Speaker A: That's not a joke.
• 9:29
  Speaker B: Are you talking about that he was assassinated?
• 9:31
  Speaker A: That's Billy Joel. JFK got blown away. What else do I have to say? We didn't start the fire. It's a great song. Talking about what he did get blown away. I mean, sad, but he did, like. Never mind. Okay. Earth day started in 1969. I told you. It was like, three or five years later or whatever. So the real catalyst for Earth Day was, I guess there was an oil spill off the coast of Santa Barbara, California, right here. This massive oil spill, and it stained all of our beaches, killed the wildlife. Dah, dah, dah, dah. And this guy, a senator from Wisconsin, of all places. Gaylord Nelson, was like, this is bullshit. And he went bonkers and started this whole Earth Day.
• 10:09
  Speaker B: Oh, okay.
• 10:10
  Speaker A: From Wisconsin, right.
• 10:12
  Speaker B: All right.
• 10:12
  Speaker A: So he organizes Gaylord. Our buddy Gaylord. So can I just call him gay? Like, nickname? Can we. Can we go?
• 10:17
  Speaker B: No. No.
• 10:18
  Speaker A: What do we do then?
• 10:19
  Speaker B: I think Senator Nelson would be appropriate.
• 10:21
  Speaker A: I like Senator Nelson. That's much. You know what Senator Nelson gives me the V that it's, like, effulgent. Right? It's like he's really.
• 10:29
  Speaker B: Right.
• 10:29
  Speaker A: It's really. Yes. Okay, so Senator Nelson, he organizes something called a teach in. And on April 22, 1970, which was the very first quote, unquote, Earth Day, 20 million Americans show up in all these different cities all across the United States. Demonstration marches, educational events, all this stuff. And, like, here's my question. How does Senator Nelson plan all that in 1970? Like, are we making phone calls?
• 10:55
  Speaker B: But, like, we're texting people, but were these all, like, the hippies no, these were like real.
• 10:59
  Speaker A: Like, everybody was into that. The movement had started. They were. They were getting pissed that there were no regulations. So. So I'm sure that was some of it. Yes. In 1970. Like, I. I will say part of it was that. Yeah. But no, they're also a bunch of regular people.
• 11:11
  Speaker B: I mean, pre Internet. 20 million is insane.
• 11:13
  Speaker A: That is insane.
• 11:14
  Speaker B: That's crazy.
• 11:15
  Speaker A: That's a record. That's a fun fact.
• 11:16
  Speaker B: Ooh.
• 11:17
  Speaker A: Up to that point, that was the largest political demonstration in US History, like, in one time.
• 11:22
  Speaker B: So Earth Day, technically was a political movement first.
• 11:26
  Speaker A: Si, si, senor. Yes. That's how it started.
• 11:28
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 11:29
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, totally.
• 11:30
  Speaker B: Is this one like the EPA started?
• 11:31
  Speaker A: This is. Yes. So it didn't even take that much longer after that. So I did look that whole thing up in 1970. So I don't know. Seven months after they start the Environmental Protection Agency. Thank you very much.
• 11:43
  Speaker B: Do we think it does good work?
• 11:46
  Speaker A: Well, we think it did do good work. It started the Clean Air Act. It started the Clean Water Act. It started the Endangered Species Act. It started a lot of act. They were act. They were acting like that. It was crazy. Now, so now I don't know. But then all of these things, like, so you go all the way back to Silent Spring, the book, and then you go to Senator Nelson, and then all of this was created all within what the book was 1963, whatever. It was seven years. And all this is happening. So I think it's absolutely incredible. And then Fast forward only 25 years from then in 1990. Guess how many people were involved in Earth Day. So it started with 20 million people. Right? You want to take a guess?
• 12:26
  Speaker B: 200.
• 12:26
  Speaker A: 200 million. Yes. You're absolutely right. You nailed it.
• 12:29
  Speaker B: Oh, really?
• 12:29
  Speaker A: 200 million. Oh, that's funny. 141 countries, 200 million people.
• 12:34
  Speaker B: So now it's like Earth Day is international. It's not just America.
• 12:37
  Speaker A: No, it's totally massive.
• 12:39
  Speaker B: So America does own the Earth because we started Earth Day, we think. I'm just kidding.
• 12:44
  Speaker A: Isn't that terrible?
• 12:45
  Speaker B: I'm just kidding.
• 12:46
  Speaker A: And therein lies the problem. But that was an excellent segue into the next part here about how cultures think about land.
• 12:55
  Speaker B: Because that's, wow, totally unplanned.
• 12:57
  Speaker A: That's what you're here for. Well, now we know who the sophisticated is and we know who the sorta is. Right. We have all that figured out. Yeah. Okay.
• 13:04
  Speaker B: I think everybody knew that. It's episode 98, I guess.
• 13:07
  Speaker A: Yeah. Anybody who's actually been listening does know that if you're tuning in for the first time, I guess we just gave you the cheat code. So here we are. Okay. Can we get back to Earth Day?
• 13:15
  Speaker B: Yes, let's go for it.
• 13:16
  Speaker A: Okay, so like I said at the beginning, context first. So America, Europe, like. Like what we're going to call the west or the Western world. Right. Everybody thinks his land as what I said property. Right. Something you own. You own your land.
• 13:27
  Speaker B: I mean, technically I don't because I feel like everyone can come in. I know, but you get the idea of things. Okay. Yes.
• 13:33
  Speaker A: And they have. What are they called? The mining rights or whatever they call those. I don't know what they call those. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So any. All that kind of crap. But anyway, yeah, just whatever. It's what you were taught. Like your parents own land or then you own land and it's like man bullshit.
• 13:44
  Speaker B: Like, okay, owning quotation marks. Got it.
• 13:46
  Speaker A: Yes. It's like a cultural assumption that it's a universal truth that we're allowed to own land. That' my whole point. Okay. But the other side of this whole thing is that the indigenous communities looked at it not as something you owned, but as something you were in a relationship with. You had responsibilities to take care of it. You were in communion with land. Back to Pocahontas, back to the whole joker. Yeah, okay. You get the whole idea. So, okay, so fun fact, best example I could find on this whole thing. Right? The Iroquois Nation.
• 14:15
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 14:15
  Speaker A: Okay. Something called the Haudenashi. I think we talked about the Haudenashi Confederacy one time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's one of the oldest democracies on Earth. When we talked about it, we were talking about how the democracies were created. They were the influence behind the US Constitution, if I remember right. Yeah, okay, okay. But that's not my fun fact. So the Haudanasi Confederacy has a philosophy called the Seventh Generation Principle. The Seventh Generation Principle. And that principle says. Hold on. I want to quote this. When you're making any important decision, you don't just think about what's good for you right now. You have to think about what the impact will be seven generations from now, which, if you do the math, is 150 years from now.
• 14:51
  Speaker B: But if everyone lived by that principle, we wouldn't be in a lot of the shit that we're in now.
• 14:56
  Speaker A: And here in this. This is sort of the point of my episode is that I was. I wanted to just sort of get into a little bit of the. The philosophy behind all this kind of stuff. Because also it doesn't just go 150 years in the future. It's also 150 years in the past. It goes both ways. They consider it. Oh, so it's like. It's what you leave behind. You have to consider what you're leaving behind 150 years in your past. Not just looking forward.
• 15:22
  Speaker B: It's like it's a 300 year span.
• 15:23
  Speaker A: So that kind of theory, the concept behind the whole thing is. And then that ties you to the seven generations that came before you. Because you have to recognize while you're making a decision what they sacrificed for
• 15:35
  Speaker B: you and then what you're sacrificing for the future.
• 15:39
  Speaker A: I just softballed that.
• 15:40
  Speaker B: You did. You turned it up.
• 15:42
  Speaker A: Perfect. Oh my God. Because compare that now to like Americans or Europeans or whatever the western world does. Does. Right. And we're not thinking in like 150 years. We're thinking in 150 days.
• 15:50
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 15:51
  Speaker A: We're like literally like our lifetimes. Yeah. I love PAC Lab, don't get me wrong. But like what do we think? We think in quarters, right? What's our quarterly earnings? Like, think of, think of all the businesses, all the corporations. Think of everything you intend to. It's all about quarterly earnings. It's all about annual returns. It's like we're in like micro.
• 16:07
  Speaker B: But I feel like that is due to, you know, being in our capitalistic society.
• 16:14
  Speaker A: I'm gonna call bullshit on it.
• 16:16
  Speaker B: You don't think so?
• 16:17
  Speaker A: No, I think it's true. I just don't like it. Like, I just.
• 16:19
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 16:20
  Speaker A: Have you ever like wanted to be born in a different time?
• 16:23
  Speaker B: Well, but no, no, I see, I
• 16:26
  Speaker A: like, I know that it comes because
• 16:28
  Speaker B: I don't want AI and robots.
• 16:29
  Speaker A: I just.
• 16:32
  Speaker B: Or aliens or gluten.
• 16:34
  Speaker A: Go ahead.
• 16:35
  Speaker B: But I do think that we have lost a lot of what sustained us. Right. Like you said gluten. And I think, oh no, I really want to get a wheat meal and I want to like get the wheat berries and I want to like mill my own wheat. Right. So stupid. No, I do want to, but I just. Am I going to do that? I don't bake enough because I just go to the store and I buy my bread. You know what I mean?
• 16:56
  Speaker A: Like so because you're trying to take yourself out of this circle, everybody around you is doing one thing and you're trying to take yourself out of the circumstance and put you in. You can't do that. What I'm saying is I want to be born In a different time completely, where everybody else is doing it, in which case then you would wake up and that would be your intention for the day. That's my point. Because everybody else would be like, so
• 17:14
  Speaker B: you want to go back to back?
• 17:15
  Speaker A: So you'd be bartering is what you want? Yes, I kind of do Little House on the Perry. I do. Okay. I kind of do. I want to be a little Michael Landon. Let's go. But here's the. Here's the thing. I like when I was researching all this stuff about Earth Day and figuring it all out, Although it started in America, it wasn't just like indigenous people in the Iroquois nation, for instance, all indigenous cultures, all of the world, everywhere.
• 17:34
  Speaker B: I think you had to, because that was all that you were given was the land.
• 17:37
  Speaker A: Okay, but my point is.
• 17:38
  Speaker B: And we still really.
• 17:39
  Speaker A: Why did we get. Why did we get so far away from it? What happened to where we were? Like, now it's like, everybody out. I have to have my little house. I have to have my little place. It has to be my. Like, before it was villages. Before it was like, you did your job, I did my job, and we were in a community together and it all worked. I don't. Like, I. Oh, my God. It just. It drives me nuts. Okay, so there's. There's.
• 17:59
  Speaker B: That's very un American of you.
• 18:01
  Speaker A: I don't know what to tell you. I don't. I don't.
• 18:03
  Speaker B: I mean, I've lived this, so I
• 18:05
  Speaker A: feel sometimes I'm just living in the wrong gen. What do you want me to tell you? I don't know.
• 18:08
  Speaker B: Well, but I don't know if it's they're living in the wrong generation or it's that at such a time as this that you were supposed to maybe like, start a little mini revolution within your own community.
• 18:20
  Speaker A: Yeah. So here's the bad part. Here's like the whole self awareness thing.
• 18:23
  Speaker B: Zero ambition to do so.
• 18:25
  Speaker A: Right. So here we are again, right?
• 18:26
  Speaker B: Here we are.
• 18:28
  Speaker A: Creature comforts. So what am I supposed to do with that? It's. Do I need to move? Do I have to move to, like, Australia or to, like, New Zealand?
• 18:35
  Speaker B: I don't think they want you. I don't think they want you either.
• 18:36
  Speaker A: Who wants me? Nobody wants you.
• 18:38
  Speaker B: Nobody wants you. You're an American. Nobody wants you.
• 18:40
  Speaker A: I'm a man without a plan. That's terrible. Okay, so speaking of Australia, New Zealand, whether they want me or not. So the Maori people, you know, the Maori people. Yeah, yeah. They have something they call, like, I'm going to butcher this kaitia katana, which basically translates to guardianship of the natural world. So same idea of the Haudanasi people. Right. The idea is that humans aren't above nature, but they are just one little teeny part of nature. Yes. And they have this responsibility to protect future generations just the same way Haudenasi did. Yes. All the Aboriginal people in all of Australia, they do something called cultural burning. Have you heard of cultural burning? Low intensity fires fix the whole ecosystem to properly manage land and promote like, what do they call it? I don't. The bio sphere. Not biosphere. Biodiversity. Yeah, yeah, biodiversity.
• 19:32
  Speaker B: But then you have a fire and then it has air pollution. We did the Clean Air Act.
• 19:36
  Speaker A: I mean, but because we're just correcting. It's like. It's like Western medicine. We're just doing the symptoms. Right. We're just trying to get at all the symptoms. That's true. It's the same problem. You're gonna love this fun fact. This one's wild. I looked this whole like. Because I remember when Australia, what was it like a few years ago? Place like one up in gazillion. It was massive, massive fire. You remember this?
• 19:55
  Speaker B: Yeah. The smoke came all the way this way.
• 19:57
  Speaker A: Scientists went back and they studied all the places that were burned and all the places that had been managed by Aboriginal traditional burning had way less damage than any places that weren't.
• 20:09
  Speaker B: Yeah, Makes sense.
• 20:10
  Speaker A: Yeah. Even though they hadn't practiced that burning in like years and years because the Australian government shut the whole thing down like they did the same thing as America did and said you can't practice your cultural burning anymore and all that kind of stuff. Even though they hadn't done that in whatever many years, they still found there was more biodiversity left in those areas than anywhere else in Australia, which I think is unbelievable.
• 20:32
  Speaker B: It's testament and proof to the fact that we should go back to the old ways.
• 20:36
  Speaker A: Yes. We should just relearn what it is that they all were doing the whole time. And we were decided not to pay any attention to and said no, here's what we're going to do. Industrial Revolution. We're going to do all this big stuff. They actually have a name for that.
• 20:52
  Speaker B: Oh, what's that?
• 20:53
  Speaker A: Relearning something from a long time ago.
• 20:56
  Speaker B: What?
• 20:56
  Speaker A: It's called traditional ecological knowledge. T E K. Okay.
• 21:01
  Speaker B: Tech.
• 21:02
  Speaker A: Yes. Tech. Yes. And let me quote. It basically refers to the knowledge that indigenous communities have accumulated over thousands of years of living with their local ecosystems and then subsequently passed down to generations so we come up with a name for it. Because we need to have a name called Traditional Ecological knowledge.
• 21:19
  Speaker B: Yep.
• 21:20
  Speaker A: When in fact, it's just, hey, dumb shits, you should have been listening to us the whole time.
• 21:25
  Speaker B: Fair.
• 21:25
  Speaker A: But we have to coin. We have to have a word of the week.
• 21:27
  Speaker B: No, we have to appropriate.
• 21:28
  Speaker A: Right?
• 21:29
  Speaker B: We have to appropriate.
• 21:30
  Speaker A: Why do we. Oh, my God, it's so dumb. Right?
• 21:32
  Speaker B: Because appropriation, man.
• 21:34
  Speaker A: Okay, but I will say this, though. It's not just America. Like, Europe did the same thing. I told you. Australia did the same thing. South America. It's not just America.
• 21:41
  Speaker B: But as soon as we go back to our roots. Right.
• 21:44
  Speaker A: It's totally going back to the roots. I mean, I will give us a little bit of credit, I guess, because at least since 1970 or 1962, like. Right. Like we started. We started.
• 21:55
  Speaker B: No, but we made government bigger, which is not what any of, like, the indigenous, you know, tribes were. Right. And so I do feel like we've maybe red taped things more, but I don't believe that we've gotten any better at it because we haven't changed our cultural, like, understanding of what we're teaching our kids.
• 22:14
  Speaker A: I agree with you, but 200.
• 22:15
  Speaker B: It's like, we have to do this because it's regulated versus we're doing this because we care about the Earth.
• 22:22
  Speaker A: I like where you're going with that. So somewhere we have to turn it back to sort of making this a self awareness moment for me. Like you said earlier. Why aren't you doing something about it? So somewhere we have to turn this into a.
• 22:33
  Speaker B: Well, you have to own it.
• 22:34
  Speaker A: Not talky and yes. And actually, like, it's not a political point.
• 22:38
  Speaker B: Right. But we all treat it like political
• 22:39
  Speaker A: points, and that's not really what it should be. It should just be a way of life.
• 22:43
  Speaker B: Yes, I would agree.
• 22:45
  Speaker A: You have a very good point there.
• 22:46
  Speaker B: Okay. But it's like we're going back to this content that you said earlier about, like, owning land versus being in, like, relationship with it. I do agree, because I think we very often lose perspective. And we talk about perspective a lot, you know, on this podcast.
• 23:00
  Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes.
• 23:01
  Speaker B: And so if it kind of all started from that we are a part of this land versus like, or being in a relationship or.
• 23:10
  Speaker A: This land is your land. This land is. No. Unless you own it from California. Go ahead. What were you saying?
• 23:20
  Speaker B: Like, philosophy. Right, right. And like I was saying earlier that you have to own it, but it has to be within our culture. It has to be part of the DNA And I don't think it's part of our DNA as a society. So how do we get back on that track of the philosophy of we are in relationship and one with the land versus this is.
• 23:39
  Speaker A: I don't think I have answers for that. It's that Tek man. It's just. What do you want me to say? It's the traditional ecological knowledge and listening to the indigenous communities. I don't. There's no real answer here. It's just we think we own everything because that's just the way we were brought up in our next generation. Unless we start changing it, we don't know what to like. I don't think one person can do jack about it, but I would argue that we have to get to a point where we feel like it's a gift that we're being granted permission to be part of this thing.
• 24:09
  Speaker B: I mean, I do love the.
• 24:10
  Speaker A: I need my faith to do that. Like, that's the only way. I can't see it any other way. Right. And if people don't have faith, I don't know what to tell you. But, like, that's a big part for me.
• 24:19
  Speaker B: But it's also, I think, owning a little bit of the fact that like the whole 150 years previous to 150 years forward.
• 24:27
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 24:28
  Speaker B: Of like, what your footprint, what your impression is on this world that you're gonna leave behind.
• 24:32
  Speaker A: But if you also ask. I'm a faith filled person. But if you ask me, like, what do I think about that and what does that look like for me and my legacy? Like, I think I have a meltdown on you right now. I don't have any of those.
• 24:42
  Speaker B: It's a very big picture, big concept.
• 24:44
  Speaker A: But. But it makes me want to go do something. It makes me really want to, like, change my ways. I think I'm gonna change my ways.
• 24:49
  Speaker B: I. I think you're gonna have a mental shift here.
• 24:51
  Speaker A: I think I am.
• 24:52
  Speaker B: You are.
• 24:52
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I. I read. I was doing research, obviously. I read there was another woman. Her name was Robin Wall kimmerer. She wrote a book called Braiding Sweet Grass. And she talks about this whole concept of owning land versus, you know, being in communion with or, you know, or using it as asking permission. Right. And she's got a quote that I loved that's in the book. It says, ask permission before taking, Never take first, never take last, and take only what you need. And her whole argument is that, like, if western science started with that super simple, you know, philosophical framework that we would be completely different with like our decision making and our red taping and our big government. I mean, I remember the whole idea and so what caught me on that one was never take first, never take last. Like, you don't think about it that way and then only take what you need. I was like, huh? It was a really good way of saying don't be douchey.
• 25:51
  Speaker B: Right, Right.
• 25:52
  Speaker A: I don't know. I just really liked it anyway. But my whole point about this whole philosophical piece that I wanted to even bring up in the first place about owning versus, you know, being allowed to use the land is even Earth Day. Even the fact that we have Earth Day, we're saying by default. Our actions are, let's make a day where we tell everybody that we have to manage things better, we have to manage the land, we have to do. There's like action verbs that we're supposed to do something strong to make a point. And I'm arguing there's a softness that's completely and totally missing. We don't have to do or manage. We have to be thankful.
• 26:37
  Speaker B: Yes. I think you are right. I do believe that it is more about instead of someone telling you to do something, you wanting to do it. Right. And so even though we have Earth Day, it's like this one day that we draw attention to it and it's like, we need to do this and we need to be better and we da da da and da da da da and da da da. But then it kind of goes by the wayside. Like we all forget about it. We celebrate Earth Day. Yeah. Yes. Instant gratification.
• 27:00
  Speaker A: Right?
• 27:00
  Speaker B: All done. We did our thing. Check, check. Versus again. It being just in your belief system and your structure of how you see the world and what you're putting out and how you live. And I just don't. I don't know if I buy that. Earth Day or the EPA or any of these other things have really effectively changed culturally how we view.
• 27:22
  Speaker A: No, but we can't say they're not trying. So here's the problem, right? It's like anything else. Like any laws or anything else you put in place. You have people that got out of control, right? Like the plants and the animals and the reptiles, they didn't get out of control. They just did what they've known to do for millennia.
• 27:37
  Speaker B: We as human, we got greedy, we got capitalism, we got industrial revolution. There's so many things that got us to this point.
• 27:42
  Speaker A: We seven deadly sinned the shit out of it. Here we are. But like, if we just went back to it. I'm watching this new thing on, I don't know, Netflix. It's with Morgan Freeman. It's called the Dinosaurs or something. And like, Earth took care of itself. Yeah, Earth literally took care of itself
• 27:55
  Speaker B: before dinosaurs and the microbiome.
• 27:57
  Speaker A: I'm watching the first one. It was in the Triassic era or something like that. And there were just reptiles that weren't even dinosaurs yet. But, like, the reptiles died and the reptile died because the earth did stuff. The earth moved and changed and shifted and it had rains and all sorts of stuff. And then that happened and then the dinosaurs came and then the earth decided to do something again. And then we came in and it's like we're just part of the cycle. So we got to.
• 28:18
  Speaker B: With the cycle.
• 28:19
  Speaker A: Exactly. And so I have to say I appreciate all the EPA and all the cleaning act, all that stuff, because all they're really trying to do is regulate the insanity of humanity unless you pay them off. Did I get credit for insanity of humanity? That was pretty good right there. But I mean, that's what they were. I get all the correct.
• 28:35
  Speaker B: But it goes back to our, like, seven sins.
• 28:37
  Speaker A: Then you have no real solution. You're just saying. I want to. About the system.
• 28:40
  Speaker B: No, what I'm trying to say. The system is broken.
• 28:42
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 28:42
  Speaker B: In all shapes and ways.
• 28:44
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 28:44
  Speaker B: But I'm saying, really, instead of tackling it by this system or societal hierarchy, that it really should be a cultural DNA change.
• 28:54
  Speaker A: And for me, people to buy in. It goes back to faith. It all, like, for me, it ha. Like, because it has to start from somewhere. And so that's.
• 29:01
  Speaker B: Well, it has to start from outside of yourself. That's all that you are. Something's bigger than you.
• 29:05
  Speaker A: Okay, so last thing on this whole point about, you know, getting it in the DNA, I was reading that indigenous people in today's like 2026 make up about 5% of all of our population, like, human population.
• 29:21
  Speaker B: Okay, okay.
• 29:21
  Speaker A: Indigenous people. Because I mean, whatever. Over the years, like, we've, you know, procreate together. So I don't know how they figure out that stat. So don't freak out on. But they're managing 25% of the world's land. All over the world. So 5% of the population, indigenous population, that's all that's left is managing 25% of the land. And I would argue they are doing it better than any of us.
• 29:44
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 29:44
  Speaker A: So I'm. I'm arguing that there's at least a chance that we're still in the realm of we can fix this if we really start, you know, using tek because they're managing their biodiversity so much better than us, and they're still doing it to this day right now. And we're only now starting to pay attention with this whole idea of getting a relationship with it. So I'm just trying to give a glimmer of hope, right, that we can. We can get somewhere if we start paying attention.
• 30:12
  Speaker B: Yes. Anyway, I can agree with that. Okay, so I have an idea. We should make a pact.
• 30:16
  Speaker A: I don't like any of your ideas.
• 30:17
  Speaker B: I know. But this Earth Day, I think that we should not just be in, like, the rah Rah camp. It's Earth Day and all the good things and we need to protect Earth, blah, blah, but, like, actually do something or, like, make a commitment that we are going to change our mindsets. Because I think this episode overall is that it's a mind expanding episode. Right. It's not necessarily, like, call to actions on what I can do, like, immediately, but maybe the first thing you can do, you know, physically immediately is work on yourself and your attitude and how you approach your footprint and you know, what that looks like on Earth.
• 30:53
  Speaker A: I'm in. I'm.
• 30:53
  Speaker B: I'm excited for your future, kids.
• 30:55
  Speaker A: I'm excited and nervous. I don't. I. Well, because you're right. I've got off my ass and started exercising, like, five months ago. And if you ask me why, my answer is because of my future, my grandkids. It's because I want to not be a burden. So I'm not even doing it for me anymore. I'm doing it for my kids. I'm doing my grandkids.
• 31:12
  Speaker B: But think about if you live that way in all areas of your life.
• 31:15
  Speaker A: So. So I love this. But I'm also scared shitless because now I have to go do real research and, like, take you seriously.
• 31:21
  Speaker B: You have to be, like, convicted.
• 31:22
  Speaker A: I'm going to get convicted in one thing. I will figure it out the same way. I have, like, a physical goal each year, a mental goal, a spiritual goal. I'm going to have an environmental. I'm adding. Okay, an environmental goal. And it's not going to be about managing. It's going to be about being in relationship. Okay, you're freaking me out, but I'm going to do this.
• 31:37
  Speaker B: Here we go.
• 31:37
  Speaker A: I like this.
• 31:38
  Speaker B: All right.
• 31:38
  Speaker A: Okay, fine. All right, Fun facts. Can I do fun facts?
• 31:40
  Speaker B: Yeah, let's go.
• 31:41
  Speaker A: All right, here we go. Number one. Do you know why they picked April 22nd to be Earth Day each year. No, like why it was strategically chosen.
• 31:52
  Speaker B: Because two plus two equals four.
• 31:54
  Speaker A: That's exactly it. Yes, it's because. Because of math.
• 31:56
  Speaker B: Shut up. No, it's not.
• 31:56
  Speaker A: No, not at all. Okay. You remember our boy, Gaylord Nelson? Senator Nelson.
• 32:00
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 32:01
  Speaker A: He loved the idea that it fell between spring break and college final exams because this movement, obviously, was about a lot of youth, all the ute. Right. So students could actually be on campus available to participate, not be shitting a brick over finals. And so he reverse engineered this date around a college academic calendar to get the most exposure from the generation that he thought would be the most interested.
• 32:29
  Speaker B: They're always trying to steal the minds of the children.
• 32:32
  Speaker A: Oh, wow. But in this case, it's a good mind steal. Yes, it is.
• 32:39
  Speaker B: They're not teaching about indigenous ways on how they preserve the land. This is a whitewashed epa. Big government. Shove it down your throat. Steal your mind.
• 32:50
  Speaker A: You are 100. Correct. But I'm telling you, until you come up with another viable alternative, that's all we got.
• 32:58
  Speaker B: So you know what they should do?
• 32:59
  Speaker A: I'm just going to try to do one little thing.
• 33:01
  Speaker B: Make it the day of, like, platforming indigenous peoples and.
• 33:05
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 33:05
  Speaker B: Talking about how the land was cared for and how.
• 33:08
  Speaker A: Let's do it.
• 33:09
  Speaker B: We can do our part.
• 33:10
  Speaker A: Okay, then maybe. Then maybe that's what we're gonna. This may be our little thing. Oh, my God.
• 33:14
  Speaker B: Power, Paul.
• 33:15
  Speaker A: Here we go. I'm gonna do this. Okay, number two. So, bald eagles. You know, bald eagles, right? They were endangered in the 1960s, 1970s.
• 33:20
  Speaker B: But it's kind of ironic that our national bird is also endangered anyways.
• 33:24
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 33:25
  Speaker B: Was it?
• 33:27
  Speaker A: So when things were at their worst, 1963, there were only 417 breeding pairs of bald eagles left in the entire United States. 417. That's it. And because of Rachel's book, Silent Spring, they now credit her with the fact that we have over 10,000 breeding pairs in the wild.
• 33:46
  Speaker B: But I'm shocked that it was because of her book and not, like, conservation efforts.
• 33:51
  Speaker A: I'm sure it was all of those,
• 33:52
  Speaker B: but it just got brought to their attention.
• 33:54
  Speaker A: They're bringing it all the way back because of her. And they called her a crazy lady to start with. Okay, number three. This one kind of sucks. Not gonna lie. A Yale study from 2021 found that Indigenous peoples in North America experienced a 99 reduction in their land over the course of American history. 99 reduction in land? North America? That's insane. Not only that, but the 1% of land that they were forced onto had barely any natural resources like oil or gas or anything important that they needed, and was found to be, quote, specifically more exposed to climate change. So just for clarity here, the people with the longest and most proven track record of taking care of North America, like I just said, 5% of indigenous people taking care of 25% of land. Right. Got pushed onto the land least worth taking. And now we're asking them to help us fix the problem we made. Right? It's terrible.
• 34:46
  Speaker B: It's colonialism.
• 34:47
  Speaker A: Super. It's super sad. But here they are. Like, they're still being awesome.
• 34:51
  Speaker B: I mean, sure, yes, fixing problems, but still not giving them a seat at the table. I don't know. That was a fun fact. It's quite depressing. It was a sad fact. Okay, next one.
• 34:58
  Speaker A: Okay, sad fact. I got one sad fact. Okay, finally. Last one.
• 35:01
  Speaker B: Make it good.
• 35:02
  Speaker A: Yeah, this one's good. Okay. So when pollsters asked Americans in 1969 whether protecting the environment was important or not, this was before the first Earth Day. It barely registered. Okay. Something like under 5% of people said that, like, this was important. Okay. By May 1971, just one year after the first Earth Day, that number jumped to 25% from less than 5 to 25%. Today, it's at 65%. So we are getting somewhere. Okay, but if you frame the question differently than, like, is protecting the environment important? Because that's too generic. If you frame it and say, do you think Yellowstone and the Grand Canyon should be protected? If you ask that question specifically, suddenly that number jumps to 95%, which tells you something interesting. The idea of stewardship is actually very popular. It's just like you were saying, politics are keeping it complicated and people don't know how to connect to it. But when you're very specific about what you think should be protected, everybody's in agreement. It should be.
• 36:04
  Speaker B: But I think that's what we're called as a community, is to find what we are passionate about, because we're all passionate about different things and go and spend our time and our resources to preserve that. Instead, we just trust that the government's going to do it, do something, and they don't. So here we are.
• 36:20
  Speaker A: So what you're saying is we need to stop this podcast altogether. We need to go do some real stuff. None of this.
• 36:26
  Speaker B: I think we can still do the podcast, but we should. I mean, there should be something that if you feel convicted of, we have
• 36:32
  Speaker A: to go, do, go do. But I can't be Convicted of a little thing.
• 36:34
  Speaker B: Okay, no.
• 36:35
  Speaker A: All right.
• 36:36
  Speaker B: But it's not saying that you're going to solve the world's problems.
• 36:37
  Speaker A: I'm not.
• 36:38
  Speaker B: It's just doing the best you can with what you're given or what you take.
• 36:42
  Speaker A: I think we both need to just have more of a. Like an effulgent glow out to the world on the things that are important to us, the things we're convicted about.
• 36:50
  Speaker B: Fair.
• 36:51
  Speaker A: Okay, fine.
• 36:51
  Speaker B: All right. Well, here I thought your little Earth Day history lesson was going to be boring, but it really went like. I mean, I think it kind of convicted me to do a little bit
• 36:59
  Speaker A: more ownership of more you than me. Like, you're kind of putting me in the hot seat here. I'm nervous about what I gotta go to do now.
• 37:05
  Speaker B: So if anybody wants to learn more about what they can do, how they can get involved, maybe movements that aren't government regulated, what say you?
• 37:13
  Speaker A: Oh, my God. I didn't know any of this shit beforehand, so I had to look some of this stuff up. So I learned a lot, actually. So first, read Braiding Sweetgrass, the book by Robin Wallkin. Well, I mean, you could obviously read Silent Spring, of course, also, but Braiding Sweetgrass is amazing because she writes about plants and ecology. Not in, like a dorky scientific way. In a way that, like, you'll walk outside in your backyard and you'll. And you'll be like, oh, my God, I totally get this now. This makes more sense. And no wonder we're all in communion. And I feel like I totally understand why we're connected.
• 37:42
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 37:43
  Speaker A: Right in that kind of. And it's not this big, preachy book. It's like super easy to read and super smart. Second, if you don't like reading, watch the documentary Kiss the Ground on Netflix. It's about. What do they call it? Regenerative agriculture. And does a really good job with, like, modern science, but, like, indigenous land philosophy and putting it together. And Woody Harrelson, you know Woody Harrelson, He's a narrator.
• 38:08
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 38:08
  Speaker A: Certain narrators. Right?
• 38:09
  Speaker B: He's a good one, right?
• 38:10
  Speaker A: Morgan Freeman, Woody. There's certain guys that, like, know what they're doing. Totally worth it. And then like you just said, if you want to get your hands dirty. Right. I didn't know where to go. I had no idea where to start. Look up a local nature Conservancy or the Indigenous Led Conservation Fund. Check it out online. Both of these places are working on land projects right now and are specifically incorporating that whole traditional ecological knowledge thing. That we were talking about earlier and how they manage land. So you can sign up anywhere in your community in either one of those. They're doing things all over the United States and just get involved with a small little move in the right direction.
• 38:43
  Speaker B: I like it.
• 38:44
  Speaker A: And if you don't want to do any of those things, well, then just remember these facts to be salta sophisticated. We go. Okay. The modern environmental movement in America traces back to a single book by Rachel Carson called Silent Spring, which was the first time the general public really understood that human actions could silently poison the natural world in ways that we couldn't even see or smell or taste. Number two, Earth Day started on April 22, 1970, when 20 million Americans showed up for the largest political demonstration in US History up to that point. Within a year, the EPA existed. Within a decade, the Clean Air act, the Clean Water act, and the Endangered Species act were all voted into law. So Earth Day was massive. Number three, the Haudenosi Confederacy, one of the oldest democracies on earth, had a philosophy called the Seventh generation principle that said every decision should be made with the next seven generations in mind. That's roughly 150 years into the future. Compare that with our current standard of our next quarterly earnings report, and you see sort of the flaw in our current thinking. Number four. Indigenous peoples make up about 5% of the global population, but manage roughly 25% of the world's land. And that biodiversity within those territories is measurably healthier than in any of the areas managed by Western science alone. Go figure. And finally, the biggest takeaway, the difference between owning the land and being in a relationship with the land you. Is not just philosophical wordplay. Like Amanda challenged me today. It changes every single decision you make about how you use it, how to protect it, and what you're obligated to leave behind. So think carefully.
• 40:19
  Speaker B: Well, there you have it, dear listeners. We came in thinking we were doing an Earth Day episode, and we ended up somewhere way more interesting than that. In my personal opinion, the oldest lesson some US Societies seem to forget isn't really about the environment at all. It's about responsibility and about the quiet assumption that the world you inherited came at a cost and the world you leave behind will matter most to someone you'll never meet. So if we did our job right today, we're walking away a little more sophisticated, maybe a little more curious about the wisdom that was sitting right there next to us the whole time while we were out here trying to invent better pesticides. So as always. If you like this episode, hit subscribe, leave a review, and share it with that one friend who rolls her eyes every time someone mentions Earth Day because now they actually have to pay attention. And not gonna lie, I was one of the those people. Until next time, stay curious, think ahead, and remember, the most sophisticated thing you can do might just be to ask whose wisdom you've been ignoring.