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Give Your Children the Freedom To Follow Their Own Passions · Raising Daughters

0:03
Speaker 1: Welcome back, friends. Doctor Tim Jordan here talking to you
0:07
Speaker 1: about kids, talking to you about girls, talking to you
0:09
Speaker 1: about parenting girls. I've been working with girls for a
0:13
Speaker 1: long time forty is years in my counseling practice and
0:18
Speaker 1: my weekend retreats and my summer camps that are now
0:21
Speaker 1: thirty six years old, also in my school program, and
0:27
Speaker 1: I've learned to believe that there are a lot of
0:29
Speaker 1: kids who end up giving up their passions and giving
0:32
Speaker 1: up their interests. My belief after all these years of
0:35
Speaker 1: working with kids is that every child has their own
0:38
Speaker 1: interests and their own dreams, their own passions, and their
0:42
Speaker 1: own story to write, whether we approve of it or not.
0:47
Speaker 1: So I want to talk today about ways I think
0:50
Speaker 1: that we sometimes can cause kids to give up who
0:53
Speaker 1: they are and their dreams and passions in ways that
0:56
Speaker 1: we're not always aware of. Let me start with an
0:59
Speaker 1: extra I've done at camp for a long time. I
1:02
Speaker 1: actually did with this with adults a long time ago
1:04
Speaker 1: in an adult retreat as well. So I'll ask for
1:07
Speaker 1: a volunteer and they stand in the middle, and now
1:10
Speaker 1: I have four or five people like in a circle
1:14
Speaker 1: around them, and then we put a blindfold on the
1:17
Speaker 1: person in the middle, and the four people are five
1:21
Speaker 1: people on the outside. They're holding ropes that attached to
1:24
Speaker 1: a belt around the middle person's waist. And so we
1:29
Speaker 1: tell those the people with the ropes to pull back
1:31
Speaker 1: to their corners. And so because that person in the
1:36
Speaker 1: middle is blindfolded, she can't see, so she's gonna have
1:40
Speaker 1: to rely on those four people to help her find
1:42
Speaker 1: and pick up some small objects that I place around
1:46
Speaker 1: the room. So I tell when the person in the middle,
1:49
Speaker 1: I'm time this. See a long takes you to get
1:51
Speaker 1: those objects. You can't see, you can't talk, but you
1:55
Speaker 1: have these people with ropes to guide you. Ready, set go.
1:59
Speaker 1: And so it's funny how the people with the ropes
2:02
Speaker 1: are telling her go right, go left. They're pulling her
2:04
Speaker 1: this way, they're pulling her that way, and it usually
2:07
Speaker 1: takes a while. It may take a minute or something
2:08
Speaker 1: like that. And so we stop after she's gotten those
2:12
Speaker 1: four objects, and I ask her how to feel and
2:13
Speaker 1: she's like, it was kind of hard pulling those people around.
2:16
Speaker 1: I felt really helpless. And so we ask her if
2:20
Speaker 1: to do it again, but we say this time, we're
2:23
Speaker 1: going to do something a little different. This time, we're
2:25
Speaker 1: going to blindfold those people with the ropes who are
2:29
Speaker 1: standing around you, but we're gonna take your blind fold off.
2:33
Speaker 1: So we tell her, you can see, you can do
2:36
Speaker 1: anything you want, you can talk, you have no limitations. They,
2:40
Speaker 1: on the other hand, have to leave this blind fold
2:42
Speaker 1: on the See how lung takes for you to pick
2:44
Speaker 1: up the four objects which we've placed around the room again, Ready,
2:47
Speaker 1: set go, And what we've seen ninety nine percent of
2:51
Speaker 1: the time is that the person in the middle starts
2:54
Speaker 1: dragging the people with the ropes around the room to
2:57
Speaker 1: pick up the objects, to pull one's all the wayward
3:00
Speaker 1: to this one been down. The people with the ropes
3:02
Speaker 1: can't see, so they're stumbling around. Then she goes the
3:05
Speaker 1: other corner of the other corner, and she does it
3:07
Speaker 1: in a lot less time. So we'll stop and say,
3:10
Speaker 1: you know, how did it feel that time? She said,
3:13
Speaker 1: it felt little bit better because I felt like I
3:14
Speaker 1: was in control. And we said that time it took you,
3:18
Speaker 1: you know, thirty eight seconds. How do you think you
3:21
Speaker 1: could have done it faster? And I've done that exercise,
3:25
Speaker 1: oh gosh, probably a couple hundred times over the years.
3:30
Speaker 1: Only one time have I had someone who had or
3:34
Speaker 1: I think is the best answer when I asked him,
3:36
Speaker 1: how could you have done it faster? And the answer
3:39
Speaker 1: is that no one ever thinks to take off the
3:43
Speaker 1: belt the instructions to the one in the middle the
3:47
Speaker 1: second time, whereas you're not blightfoled, you can see, you
3:49
Speaker 1: can talk, you have no limitations. So she could have
3:54
Speaker 1: just take off the belt, walked over and picked up
3:56
Speaker 1: those for odrict speaking, but we don't. I think it's
4:00
Speaker 1: because of our conditioning. I tell the people in the middle,
4:04
Speaker 1: if those objects represented to your happiness, your success, your relationships,
4:08
Speaker 1: your sense of fulfillment, your contentment, your peace of mind.
4:13
Speaker 1: We've all been programmed to underestimate what we can do
4:17
Speaker 1: for ourselves and to overestimate what we need from other people.
4:21
Speaker 1: Oftentimes with the way we're parenting kids, we've conditioned them
4:25
Speaker 1: to be dependent on us and for other people to
4:28
Speaker 1: determine their destiny. And that's where I want different. I
4:33
Speaker 1: want them to learn to be in charge of their destiny.
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Speaker 1: So I always ask them and we have a discussion,
4:40
Speaker 1: who are what are the ropes that you are allowing
4:42
Speaker 1: to hold you back from achieving what you want? To
4:45
Speaker 1: get what you want in life, to follow your passions?
4:47
Speaker 1: What are your ropes? And that lends this up to
4:51
Speaker 1: a whole discussion which I'm going to talk about probably
4:54
Speaker 1: in a subsequent podcast. But sometimes sometimes a rope is
5:01
Speaker 1: our parents, because they have a plan for us. There's
5:06
Speaker 1: an author her name is Alison kopnikp n Ik, and
5:11
Speaker 1: she described two approaches to parenting and educating kids. One
5:16
Speaker 1: way is to be a carpenter. A carpenter has a blueprint,
5:19
Speaker 1: they know exactly what they want to build, and they
5:22
Speaker 1: try and shape the child to their vision. The other
5:25
Speaker 1: kind of parenting, the other approach is to be a gardener,
5:28
Speaker 1: someone who creates a nurturing space for kids to flourish
5:31
Speaker 1: more spontaneously. So carpenters are trying to mold shape their
5:36
Speaker 1: kids into a vision that we have for them. A gardener,
5:40
Speaker 1: on the other hand, tries to create a protected, nurturing environment,
5:44
Speaker 1: a space for those plants, i e. Our kids to flourish.
5:49
Speaker 1: There's a lot that parents can do to become better gardeners,
5:51
Speaker 1: if you will, to create a space where their kids
5:54
Speaker 1: can learn and grow and to find their own interests
5:56
Speaker 1: and their own passions and their own destiny. So we
6:01
Speaker 1: need to give kids the freedom and the space to
6:03
Speaker 1: explore their world, to sample lots of activities, to give
6:07
Speaker 1: them toys that allows them to do the toy their
6:09
Speaker 1: own way, as opposed to always having prescribed directions, always
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Speaker 1: following a prescribe plan. If you will like being a gardener,
6:17
Speaker 1: I'm sorry being a carpenter. So let me tell you
6:20
Speaker 1: a couple of stories I think are fun, interesting, but poignant.
6:25
Speaker 1: They have to do with allowing kids the space to
6:27
Speaker 1: kind of follow their own lead. The first one is
6:30
Speaker 1: about the Sufi Saint Chams of Tabreez, who said he
6:34
Speaker 1: was always considered a misfit as a kid. His father
6:38
Speaker 1: told me he wasn't crazy enough to be put into
6:40
Speaker 1: a madhouse, but he didn't know what else to do
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Speaker 1: with him, because this kid was always trying to do
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Speaker 1: his own thing. And so Chams told his father this story.
6:50
Speaker 1: He said, a duck's egg somehow found its way under
6:53
Speaker 1: a hen, and when this little egg hatch, the duckling
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Speaker 1: walked around with the mother hand and her littles just
7:01
Speaker 1: like they were. One day they walked by a pond,
7:04
Speaker 1: and this little duck ling went straight into the water
7:07
Speaker 1: and her mother the hen stayed clucking anxiously on the
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Speaker 1: shore seam said to his father, I have walked into
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Speaker 1: the ocean. I find it my home. You can hardly
7:18
Speaker 1: blame me if you choose to stay on the shore.
7:22
Speaker 1: How many kids have I met over the years, So
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Speaker 1: many who have given up parts of themselves because they
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Speaker 1: weren't encouraged by their parents, because those parts weren't valued
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Speaker 1: by their parents. Parts meaning their passions, interests, the way
7:37
Speaker 1: they think about things, their thoughts, their opinions. I don't
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Speaker 1: think we sometimes do a good job with that, because
7:43
Speaker 1: we're so busy trying to control our kids. Another good
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Speaker 1: story the egg of an eagle. This time somehow found
7:51
Speaker 1: is way into the corner of a barn where a
7:54
Speaker 1: hen was hatching her own eggs, and soon the little
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Speaker 1: baby eaglet was hatched along with the other little chickens.
8:01
Speaker 1: And as time passed, the eglot began to experience a
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Speaker 1: longing to fly, so she would ask her mother, the hen,
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Speaker 1: when can I learn to fly? Well, of course, the
8:11
Speaker 1: poor hen had no ability to fly, nor the slightest
8:14
Speaker 1: idea about how to teach her to do that, But
8:16
Speaker 1: she was too ashamed to admit this, so she would
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Speaker 1: say to her little eglot child. Not yet, my child,
8:22
Speaker 1: not yet, I will teach you when you're ready. Months passed,
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Speaker 1: and the young eagle began to suspect that his mother
8:31
Speaker 1: did not know how to fly. But she could not
8:33
Speaker 1: get herself to break loose and fly on her own,
8:36
Speaker 1: because her keen longing to fly had become confused with
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Speaker 1: the gratitude she felt towards a bird that had hatched her.
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Speaker 1: I know some kids who have broken away and to
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Speaker 1: finally insisted on being themselves, even went against the grain
8:52
Speaker 1: of their family or their community. But I find that
8:55
Speaker 1: those kids are in the minority. Many kids, especially compliant kids,
9:00
Speaker 1: kids who are kind of pleasers. If you will, they'll
9:02
Speaker 1: give up their desires. They give up their interests in
9:04
Speaker 1: order to please their parents or to not disappoint them.
9:07
Speaker 1: And that's especially true for girls. I see a lot
9:11
Speaker 1: of girls who are very sensitive and not wanting to
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Speaker 1: disappoint their parents, so they give up parts of themselves, thoughts, opinions,
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Speaker 1: the way they want to address, the way they look,
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Speaker 1: their interests, their passions, things they want to try, things
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Speaker 1: they want to do. I counsel a lot of miserable
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Speaker 1: teenage girls who are struggling to break free from the
9:32
Speaker 1: constraints of their parents' wishes and their plans for them.
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Speaker 1: And some of these kids end up being depressed. They're
9:38
Speaker 1: saddened because they're not living their life and they at
9:41
Speaker 1: some level they know that. On the other hand, made
9:44
Speaker 1: them end up becoming angry and rebelling, pushing back, and
9:48
Speaker 1: there's lots of power struggles that aren't necessary if we
9:52
Speaker 1: would just listen to our kids and what they wish
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Speaker 1: and what they want. So I don't want your kids
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Speaker 1: to rebel. I want them to be depressed. I want
10:01
Speaker 1: them to have the ability to be able to stretch
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Speaker 1: their wings, to swim out into the pond if you will,
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Speaker 1: to fly in the air, if that's their destiny. So
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Speaker 1: for this coming year, I want you to become aware
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Speaker 1: of any ways that you may not be allowing your
10:18
Speaker 1: kids to create their own lives if you have become
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Speaker 1: their rope or one of their ropes. It starts with
10:24
Speaker 1: things like having lots of toys for them to have.
10:27
Speaker 1: They have no prescribed directions. Let your kids use their
10:30
Speaker 1: imaginations and their creativity to create their own masterpieces. Kids
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Speaker 1: love doing that, They love doing that. Otherwise they just
10:39
Speaker 1: go doing the directions ABC all the way up. It's
10:43
Speaker 1: not bad, it's just it's nice for your kids to
10:45
Speaker 1: be able to stretch their minds and stretch their creativity.
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Speaker 1: I want us this year to value and appreciate our
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Speaker 1: children's interests more, even if they're different than your own,
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Speaker 1: are different than your families. I see some kids who
11:00
Speaker 1: are who are very artsy, and sometimes they were born
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Speaker 1: into a sporty family or vice versa, and their parents
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Speaker 1: don't quite understand their interests, and so they start pushing
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Speaker 1: what's interesting to them, and so a lot of these
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Speaker 1: kids end up just giving up their what they want
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Speaker 1: to do. They give up their interests and their desires
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Speaker 1: again to please not disappoint their parents. So I want
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Speaker 1: you to value your kids interests even if they're nonconformists,
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Speaker 1: even if they aren't mainstream, if you will, I want
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Speaker 1: them to be able to have their own opinions, their
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Speaker 1: own thoughts. It's good to have debase with your kids,
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Speaker 1: but they can express what they think and their point
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Speaker 1: of view without making them feel wrong or bad. You
11:44
Speaker 1: don't have to agree with them, but just listen to them,
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Speaker 1: listen to how they're thinking, where they're coming from, their thoughts.
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Speaker 1: Their opinions change over time, so you don't need to
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Speaker 1: freak out if there's they say something that you know
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Speaker 1: is disturbing to you in that moment. But love them
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Speaker 1: to stretch and to grow and to kind of figure
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Speaker 1: out who they are and what they want. Put energy
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Speaker 1: and money into things that sometimes we don't always think about.
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Speaker 1: We think nothing about paying for a twelve months of
12:13
Speaker 1: a year club sports team with twelve tournaments and all
12:16
Speaker 1: the equipment, all that. We don't bad an eye for that,
12:19
Speaker 1: but we might bad night if our kids want to
12:21
Speaker 1: do an art camp or be in a play, or
12:24
Speaker 1: be in theater if it costs money. So I want
12:28
Speaker 1: you to invest as much time, energy, money if you will,
12:32
Speaker 1: into your kid's interests, even if it's different than the
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Speaker 1: rest of the family. My wife and I when we
12:38
Speaker 1: give talks if they have younger kids, we'll do a
12:42
Speaker 1: role play. We will have a parent pretend to be
12:46
Speaker 1: a little like say five year old or seven year old,
12:49
Speaker 1: and will say, ony, don't you come to us as
12:50
Speaker 1: a little four or five year old and you've just
12:53
Speaker 1: colored a picture and say mommy, mommy or daddy, dad,
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Speaker 1: do you like my picture? What do you think of
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Speaker 1: my picture. So then we respond in a couple different ways.
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Speaker 1: The first way we go, oh my gosh, it's so beautiful.
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Speaker 1: I've never seen such a pretty picture. Oh my gosh,
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Speaker 1: you are such a great artist. And we pat them
13:11
Speaker 1: on the back and we say, how do you feel
13:13
Speaker 1: if you're a kid? Okay, it's okay, it felt kind
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Speaker 1: of okay. But then we say, let's do a different way,
13:18
Speaker 1: just to see if just to mix it up and
13:19
Speaker 1: see if we get a different response. So the kid
13:22
Speaker 1: comes up says, daddy, daddy, do you like my picture?
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Speaker 1: Do you like my picture I colored? Instead of instead
13:27
Speaker 1: of doing it the first way, we'll say instead, what
13:30
Speaker 1: do you think of your picture? And a lot of
13:33
Speaker 1: times the kids will stop, kids being parents playing kids,
13:36
Speaker 1: so stop and say, well, they haven't really thought about that,
13:40
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I don't almost. We'll think about it.
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Speaker 1: What do you like about your picture? And then typically
13:45
Speaker 1: if they'll start describing something that we would probably never
13:48
Speaker 1: have said. What we would have probably said as a
13:50
Speaker 1: parent is I love that you're coloring inside the lines now.
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Speaker 1: But what a kid will say is I like because
13:56
Speaker 1: I put her hair being pink. I've always wanted to
13:58
Speaker 1: have pink hair. They'll describe to you why they love
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Speaker 1: to draw and why they love their picture, and that
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Speaker 1: is so much more valuable than what we think. So
14:09
Speaker 1: you listen to what they love about it, you reflect
14:11
Speaker 1: that back, you mirror it back, and they internalize that
14:15
Speaker 1: those good feelings about drawing and art will always be
14:18
Speaker 1: there for them, because we're not always going to be
14:20
Speaker 1: there for them to pat them on the back and
14:22
Speaker 1: tell them how great they are. So one thing we
14:25
Speaker 1: can do to allow them to have their own interests,
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Speaker 1: in their own thoughts is just to mirror back and
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Speaker 1: ask them what they think about school, Ask them what
14:33
Speaker 1: kind of grades they want, and they say, well a's.
14:35
Speaker 1: Will say why do you want a's. Why do you
14:37
Speaker 1: like your picture? Why do you like soccer, Why do
14:39
Speaker 1: you like playing piano? Why do you want to be
14:40
Speaker 1: in a band, What do you like about being in theater?
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Speaker 1: Listen so you get a sense of this is how
14:46
Speaker 1: they think, This is where they're at in this day
14:49
Speaker 1: and age, at this particular time in life, and just
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Speaker 1: value that and affirm that there was a boy years ago,
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Speaker 1: after observing how much he loved to play piano that
15:02
Speaker 1: they had in the living room of their home. The
15:04
Speaker 1: two parents found a teacher for him, but after just
15:08
Speaker 1: a few lessons, he abandoned the lessons because he didn't
15:11
Speaker 1: want to learn scales. He didn't want to learn about
15:13
Speaker 1: those dots on the page. He wanted to get straight
15:15
Speaker 1: to playing songs. They loved to hear his parents a
15:19
Speaker 1: little later on and curse him to audition for the
15:21
Speaker 1: choir at a cathedral where they lived. This is in England,
15:25
Speaker 1: and he could sing beautifully, but he in the audition
15:28
Speaker 1: he deliberately flubbed it because he didn't want lessons. His
15:33
Speaker 1: school years will be marked by this kind of self sabotage.
15:37
Speaker 1: He was very clear on what interested him and what
15:40
Speaker 1: bored him. He had a very stubborn aversion to being
15:42
Speaker 1: told what to do. Eventually, his parents backed off and
15:48
Speaker 1: allowed him to do it his way. His buddy, by
15:52
Speaker 1: the way, was kind of like him as well, and
15:55
Speaker 1: his brother says about the second boy, he said, the
15:58
Speaker 1: mint he got his first guitar, that was the end
16:01
Speaker 1: of it. All he did was play guitar. He was lost,
16:05
Speaker 1: lost in his guitar. He didn't have time to eat,
16:08
Speaker 1: or think or do anything else because he was so
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Speaker 1: into playing his guitar. And those two boys were by
16:16
Speaker 1: the way, Paul McCartney and John Lennon the Beatles, could
16:21
Speaker 1: not read music. Most of the great artists of that time,
16:25
Speaker 1: people like Paul Simon, a great sungarst, didn't know how
16:27
Speaker 1: to read music. They listened to songs on the radio
16:30
Speaker 1: and they just started to play them on their own.
16:32
Speaker 1: They followed their passion and did it in their way,
16:36
Speaker 1: and that's probably one of the main reasons why they
16:38
Speaker 1: were so successful. They had the freedom to follow their passions.
16:43
Speaker 1: So again, one job of our parenting is to stay
16:46
Speaker 1: out of their way, appreciating their interests, their passions, their
16:50
Speaker 1: life path, what makes them tick, what they love about,
16:53
Speaker 1: the things that they love, to mirror that back and
16:55
Speaker 1: allow our kids to find their way to be more
16:59
Speaker 1: of a gardener, if you will, to create an environment
17:02
Speaker 1: where those kinds of interests can bear fruit. One last story,
17:09
Speaker 1: there's a girl who started dreaming at age eight about
17:12
Speaker 1: living in Africa. She had read a Curious George book
17:16
Speaker 1: from the library and she loved it. And what she
17:20
Speaker 1: wanted was not to be the little boy. She didn't
17:23
Speaker 1: want to be the monkey. She wanted to be the
17:25
Speaker 1: man in the yellow hat. And she wanted to grow
17:28
Speaker 1: up and be someone who could go to Africa and
17:30
Speaker 1: work with monkeys. Everybody told her, you can't do that,
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Speaker 1: you're a girl, you're a woman. That's a man's thing.
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Speaker 1: Do something else. But this girl loved to be outside.
17:42
Speaker 1: She loves climbing trees. She kept reading books, all the
17:45
Speaker 1: Curious George books. She read every book she couldn't library
17:48
Speaker 1: about chimpanzees and monkeys, and she daydreamed about a life
17:51
Speaker 1: in the forest with Tarzan. She had dreams. She said
17:56
Speaker 1: as a kid that she was a man because she
17:59
Speaker 1: wanted to be able to things that men were able
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Speaker 1: to do, like go to Africa and work with animals.
18:04
Speaker 1: And she wanted to go there and live with the
18:06
Speaker 1: chimpanzees and be like Doctor Doolittle and like Tarzan, and
18:11
Speaker 1: like the man with a yellow hat. And the only
18:14
Speaker 1: person in the world who support her, who didn't nay
18:17
Speaker 1: say her wishes was her mom. She supported her love
18:21
Speaker 1: of animals. Most people told her to dream about something
18:25
Speaker 1: that she could actually achieve, but her mom didn't say that.
18:31
Speaker 1: And this girl, Jane Goodall, said, when I wanted to
18:35
Speaker 1: go up to Africa at age ten, everybody laughed at me,
18:38
Speaker 1: but she my mom supported me and simply said something
18:42
Speaker 1: which I took to heart. If you really want something,
18:45
Speaker 1: you must be prepared to work very hard, take advantage
18:48
Speaker 1: of all opportunities, and above all else, never ever ever
18:53
Speaker 1: give up. So we know who Jane Goodall became. We
18:57
Speaker 1: know she's one of the most fam as primatologists ever
19:02
Speaker 1: and made some huge contributions to this world because she
19:04
Speaker 1: had the support of her mom who support her interest
19:08
Speaker 1: and her passion. So my wish for this new year
19:12
Speaker 1: is that all of your children feel that kind of
19:14
Speaker 1: unconditional support for their passions and their dreams. We have
19:19
Speaker 1: to check our check into ourselves and make sure that
19:22
Speaker 1: we don't start to inhibit kids because because what they're
19:25
Speaker 1: into may not look good or may not be may
19:28
Speaker 1: not be important in the culture at the moment. But
19:31
Speaker 1: that's not what's important. What's important is for them to
19:34
Speaker 1: follow their hearts and they will zigzag their way to
19:36
Speaker 1: their final destinations and their final passions and interests. But
19:41
Speaker 1: in each of those moments, let them follow their passions
19:45
Speaker 1: an essence state out of their way and don't become
19:47
Speaker 1: a rope that holds them back. I will, I will
19:53
Speaker 1: put some links in my podcast show notes as always,
19:59
Speaker 1: and also I'll put my website. It's just www dot
20:03
Speaker 1: dr tim Jordan dot com. You can go there and
20:06
Speaker 1: find all kinds of information about my weekend retreats for
20:10
Speaker 1: girls in grade school, middle school, and high school, my
20:12
Speaker 1: summer camps for girls grade school, middle school, and high school. Also,
20:15
Speaker 1: I've written seven books, so you can go on the
20:17
Speaker 1: website and find those. Also, there will be a page
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Speaker 1: for podcasts I've done. I think at the last one
20:23
Speaker 1: I did this is like I think three hundred and sixty.
20:25
Speaker 1: So I have a whole library of my former podcast
20:28
Speaker 1: with all kinds of different topics. So if you like
20:31
Speaker 1: this podcast, you can find ones I've done in the past.
20:36
Speaker 1: So I will be back here as always in a
20:37
Speaker 1: week with a brand new topic. I hope that you
20:40
Speaker 1: have a good start to your year. I hope your
20:42
Speaker 1: kids have a good start with all their passions. I
20:44
Speaker 1: hope you have a great start in letting go of
20:46
Speaker 1: the rope and letting your kids live the life they
20:48
Speaker 1: are meant to live. I'll be back here in a week.
20:51
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for stopping by.