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A Special Live Episode: Witches, Monsters and Women, Oh My! · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Well, hello. Hello.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: I am Samantha.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: I am Annie.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: And we are Stuff Mom Never Told You.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to lie.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: I had a plan to do a little jig out
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: here because of the vibe from last night. You know,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: it changed a little bit. I was like, oh, we're
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: supposed to be dancing in here? What? But it's okay.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: I'll do it again later tonight, I think. So we're
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: going to switch it up for this morning's presentation.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Yes. I think the vibe has already been switched up.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: If you heard the music.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: You might be thinking, are we at the wrong show? No,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: this is not an encore of stuff they don't want
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: you to know, even though that would be great. This
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: is stuff I've never told you. We're going to be
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: doing some interesting things. It's going to be really, really fun. Yes.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: What are we doing then? I hope you know. Oh,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: my God.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: We are not prepared. No, we are so excited to
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: be able to do something a little different from our
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: normal podcast. Although, Annie, we do have a portion where
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: we get to do a little bit because this is
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: a fantastic writer right here, if y'all need to know.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Aw, thanks.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Which makes her a great podcaster. Yes, and she loves
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: to share her stories. And we're kind of doing something
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: like that today. Hint, hint.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Yes, hint, hint. But before we get too far into that,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: we've got some shout outs. First of all, thanks to
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: our friends at Virgin Voyages for putting this whole thing together.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Delight.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Yes. Thank you to the Virgin team and to the
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: iHeart team who have taken care of us. They have
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: dealt with our random questions. our very ambitious request that
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: we're shot down sometimes.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: We are officially spoiled, and so we're not going to
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: be able to do anything else unless it's exactly like this,
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: because we are a little catered to, but that's okay. Yes.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: And thanks to all of y'all for coming. Look at
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: this lovely crowd. Yes. Yes, and shout out to the
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: people watching from the live stream.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, hello.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, cheers.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: Cozy in your bed. It's really smart. I kind of
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: wish we could have also been, you know, in our
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: beds doing the podcast.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: It'd be a whole different show. I'm sure that exists.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: I'm sure it does.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, we need to think about this a little longer then.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Well, that's for another day. For today. I have to say,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: I never thought I would be saying I'm doing a
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: podcast from sea.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: The sea.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: That is something I never thought I would hear when
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I started as a little baby intern in 2010. And
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: I asked my boss, what is a podcast? And yet
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: here we are. Here we are.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, you are a veteran in this industry, which is rare. Like,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what a podcast was until like 2015.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: I'm like, what's that? What are we doing?
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Radio?
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: That was what my mother asked me if I was doing.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Are you on the radio now?
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: No, no. Sometimes it's easier to just say yes. But yeah, Samantha,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: I know you were a little nervous. You've never been
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: on a boat like this. How are you doing?
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: I'm a virgin to virgin and then any of the voyages. So,
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: you know, I get to say that. I am on
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: all the meds and I'm still a little wobbly. Today's
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: extra rocky. So this has been an adventure.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: I think it's going to add to the ambiance.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: Oh, yes. Especially when I fall out the chair. So don't,
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: you didn't see that.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: You also didn't see that I'm wearing the same clothes
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: I've already worn. That's okay.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: That's what happens here. Also, yes, we are so excited
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: to be able to do a podcast live with you.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: So exciting. Just as a quick reminder, Aside, afterwards, after
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: the Q & A, if you want to come talk
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: with us, meet with us, tell us all of your
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: grand adventures or give us suggestions, we will be at
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: the Draft House, right? Yes.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: I hear yes. I'm going to go with that. Yes.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: And please come see us. We'd love to be social. Yeah. Oh,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: you gave me quite a look as if that's not true.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's true. Sometimes. It's according to what I'm drinking.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Sometimes. So we are the closing act of this Stuff
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: at Sea voyage.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Such a big show. Stuff you should know. Stuff they
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: don't want you to know. Man, big acts to follow.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: So don't expect much. Wow.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: All right. That's one way to go about it. Yes.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Big shout outs to both of those teams. They are
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: so amazing. They're so great to work with. We're so
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: fortunate to get to work with them and See their
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: podcast live. That was awesome. It was so fun.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: So, shall we start ours?
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. All right.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Let's do it.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Let's do it.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: We're not going to clap, but we also usually do that, too,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: if you were here for this, that they don't want
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: you to know. Sometimes we do three claps because, yeah,
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: that's right.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: And Samantha.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: And welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You, a production
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. And it is officially October, which is our
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: favorite time of year. My favorite time of year, definitely.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: And today, we have a very special episode for you,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: coming at you live from Virgin Voyage's Valiant Lady. Yay! Yay!
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: And if you can't tell, we have an amazing audience
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: participation happening. So we hope to hear way more of
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: that during this recording. We need that.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, hint, hint. But yeah, that's right. We are at sea.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: But that's not the only reason this episode is special, right, Samantha? Yes, what?
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Why is it special?
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: You are so convincing when you do that.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sorry.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: And you are a theater kid, which is going to
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: come in handy.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: High school theater right here. That's being society.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Am I right? Anyone?
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, all right. Okay. So, you know, we love to
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: do some fiction on the show. We love to do
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: some dramatic readings, some cool sound effects. And thanks to
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: our super producer, Rima.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Hey, Rima.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: We have some amazing sound design. for three stories that
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: are all in the public domain.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: So do not sue us.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: We can't be sued.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Lowly podcasters.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: No, we don't have money.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Nope. And then after each reading, we're going to have
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: a discussion of some of the themes like we like
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: to do. And we're starting off ambitious.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Very ambitious.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: But with one that we couldn't leave off the list.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: And that is Mary Shelley's classic, Frankenstein.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Or the modern Prometheus. which was first published anonymously at
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: the age of 20 in 1818, but she was 18
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: when she wrote it, everybody.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: Mary Shelley, just killing it at a young age. I
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: feel really old when I talk about things like this,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, yeah, 18, more 40-something, what have I done?
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: I need to write more or do something.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: You can write a novel at any time, Samantha. Don't
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: put an age on that.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do it.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: I would bet that most of you know this story
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: very basically. It follows a scientist named Victor Frankenstein who
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: stitches together the body parts of several corpses and uses
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: electricity to bring his monster to life. And now the
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: monster wants a companion, a.k.a. a bride.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: And he wants Victor, his regretful creator, to make her
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: to make her for him. So we're going to dive
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: into themes and history, but first we're going to do
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: a reading from the original work. So let's get into
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: the story. As I sat, a train of reflection occurred
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: to me, which led me to consider the effects of
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: what I was now doing. Three years before, I was
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: engaged in the same manner and had created a fiend
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: whose unparalleled barbarity had desolated my heart and filled it
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: forever with the bitterest remorse. I was now about to
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: form another being of whose dispositions I was alike ignorant.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: She might become ten thousand times more malignant than her
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: mate and delight for its own sake in murder and wretchedness.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: He had sworn to quit the neighborhood of man and
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: hide himself in deserts, but she had not, and she,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: who in all probability was to become a thinking and
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: reasoning animal, might refuse to comply with the compact made
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: before her creation. They might even hate each other. The
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: creature who already lived loathed his own deformity, and might
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: he not conceive a greater abhorrence for it when it
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: came before his eyes and the female formed she might
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: also turn with disgust from him to the superior beauty
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: of man. She might quit him and he be again alone,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: exasperated by the fresh provocation of being deserted by one
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: of his own species. Even if they were to leave
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Europe and inhabit the deserts of the new world, yet
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: one of the first results of those sympathies for which
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: the demon thirsted would be children, and a race of
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: devils would be propagated upon the earth who might make
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: the very existence of the species of man a condition
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: precarious and full of terror. Had I right, for my
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: own benefit, to inflict this curse upon everlasting generations? I
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: had before been moved by the sophisms of the being
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: I had created. I had been struck senseless by his
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: fiendish threats. But now, for the first time, the wickedness
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: of my promise burst upon me. I shuddered to think
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: that future ages might curse me as their pest, whose
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: selfishness had not hesitated to buy its own peace at
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: the price, perhaps, of the existence of the whole human race.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: I trembled, and my heart fell within me when, on
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: looking up, I saw by the light of the moonlight
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: the demon at the casement. A ghastly grin wrinkled his
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: lips as he gazed on me where I sat, fulfilling
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: the task which he had allotted to me. Yes, he
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: had followed me in my travels. He had loitered in forests,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: hid himself in caves, or taken refuge in wide and
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: desert heaths. And he now came to mark my progress
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: and claim the fulfillment of my promise. As I looked
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: on him, his countenance expressed the utmost of malice and treachery.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: I thought with a sensation of madness on my promise
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: of creating another light to him, and trembling with passion,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: tore to pieces the thing on which I was engaged.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: The wretch saw me destroy the creature on whose future
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: existence he depended for happiness, and with a howl of
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: devilish despair and revenge, withdrew. I left the room and,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: locking the door, made a solemn vow in my own
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: heart never to resume my labors. And then, with trembling steps,
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: I sought my own apartment. I was alone. None were
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: near me to dissipate the gloom and relieve me from
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: the sickening oppression of the most terrible reveries.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Several hours passed, and I remained near my window, gazing
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: on the sea. It was almost motionless. for the winds
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: were hushed and all nature reposed under the eye of
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: the quiet moon. A few fishing vessels alone specked the water,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: and now and then the gentle breeze wafted the sound
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: of voices as the fishermen called to one another. I
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: felt the silence, although I was hardly conscious of its
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: extreme profundity, until my ear was suddenly arrested by the
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: paddling of oars near the shore and a person landed
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: close to my house. In a few minutes after, I
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: heard the creaking of my door as if someone endeavored
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: to open it softly. I trembled from head to foot.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: I felt a presentiment of who it was and wished
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: to rouse one of the peasants who dwelt in a
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: college not far from mine. But it was overcome by
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: the sensation of helplessness so often felt in frightful dreams
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: when you in vain endeavor to fly from an impending
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: danger and was rooted to the spot. Presently, I heard
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: the sound of footsteps along the passage. The door opened,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: and the wretch whom I dreaded appeared.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Shutting the door, he approached me and said in a
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: smothered voice, You have destroyed the work which you began.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: What is it that you intend? Do you dare to
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: break your promise? I have endured toil and misery. I
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: felt left Switzerland with you. I crept along the shores
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: of the Rhine, among its willow islands and over the
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: summits of the hills. I have dwelt many months in
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: the heaths of England and among the deserts of Scotland.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: I have endeared incalculable fatigue and cold and hunger. Do
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: you dare destroy my hopes? Be gone! I do break
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: my promise. Never will I create another like yourself, equal
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: in deformity and wickedness. Slave, I before reasoned with you,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: but you have proved yourself unworthy of my condescension. Remember
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: that I have power. You believe yourself miserable, but I
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: can make you so wretched that the light of day
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: will be hateful to you. You are my creator, but
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: I am your master. Obey the floor. The hour of
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: my resolution is past and the period of your power
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: is arrived. Your threats cannot move me to do an
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: act of wickedness, but they confirm me in a determination
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: of not creating you a companion in vice. Shall I,
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: in cold blood, set loose upon the earth a demon
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: whose delight is in death and wretchedness?
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Be gone.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: I am firm and your words will only exacerbate my rage.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: The monster saw my determination in my face and gnashed
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: his teeth in the impotence of anger. Shall each man,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: cried he, find a wife for his bosom and each
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: beast have a mate and I be alone? I had
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: feelings of affection and they were requited by detestation and scorn. Man,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: you may hate, but beware. Your hours will pass in dread.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: and misery, and soon the bolt will fall which must
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: ravish from you your happiness forever. Are you to be
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: happy while I grovel in the intensity of my wretchedness?
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: You can blast my other passions, but revenge remains. Revenge
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: henceforth dearer than light or food. I may die, but
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: first you, my tyrant and tormentor, shall curse the sun
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: that gazes on your misery. Beware, for I am fearless
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: and therefore powerful. I will watch with the wiliness of
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: a snake that I may sting with its venom. Man,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: you shall repent the injuries you inflict. Devil, cease, and
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: do not poison the air with these sounds of malice.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: I have declared my resolution to you, and I am
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: no coward to bend beneath words. Leave me, I am inexorable.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: It is well, I go, but remember, I shall be
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: with you on your wedding night. I started forward and exclaimed, Villain,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: before you sign my death warrant, be sure that you
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: are yourself safe. I would have seized him, but he
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: eluded me and quitted the house with precipitation. In a
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: few moments, I saw him in his boat, which shot
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: across the waters with an arrowy swiftness, and was soon
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: lost amidst the waves.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: All was again silent, but his words rang in my ears.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: I burned with rage to pursue the murderer of my
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: peace and precipitate him into the ocean. I walked up
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: and down my room hastily and perturbed, while my imagination
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: conjured up a thousand images to torment and sting me.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Why had I not followed him and closed him with
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: mortal strife? But I had suffered him to depart, and
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: he had directed his course towards the mainland. I shuddered
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: to think who might be the next victim to his
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: insatiated revenge. And then I thought again of his words.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: I will be with you on your wedding night. That
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: then was the period fixed for the fulfillment of my destiny.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: In that hour I should die and at once satisfy
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: and extinguish his malice. The prospect did not move me
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: to fear. Yet, when I thought of my beloved Elizabeth,
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: of her tears and endless sorrow, when she should find
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: her lover so barbarously snatched from her, tears The first
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: I had shed for many months streamed from my eyes,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: and I resolved not to fall before my enemy without
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: a bitter struggle. Oh yeah, skipping ahead, by the way,
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: dude killed a person on his way out.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Whoops, whoops.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: So, cut to wedding night.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: I had been calm during the day, but so soon
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: as night obscured the shapes of objects, a thousand fears
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: arose in my mind. I was anxious and watchful. while
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: my right hand grasped a pistol which was hidden in
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: my bosom. Every sound terrified me, but I resolved that
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: I would sell my life dearly and not shrink from
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: the conflict until my own life or that of my
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: adversary was extinguished. Elizabeth observed my agitation for some time
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: in timid and fearful silence, but there was something in
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: my glance which communicated terror to her, and trembling she asked,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: What is it that agitates you, my dear Victor? What
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: is it you fear? Oh, peace, peace, my love, replied I,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: this night and all will be safe, but this night
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: is dreadful, very dreadful. I passed an hour in this
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: state of mind, and suddenly I reflected how fearful the
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: combat which I momentarily expected would be to my wife,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: and I earnestly entreated her to retire, resolving not to
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: join her until I had obtained some knowledge. as to
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: the situation of my enemy.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: She left me, and I continued some time walking up
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: and down the passages of the house and inspecting every
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: corner that might afford a retreat to my adversary. But
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: I discovered no trace of him and was beginning to
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: conjecture that some fortunate chance had intervened to prevent the
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: execution of his menace when suddenly I heard a shrill
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: and dreadful scream. It came from the room into which
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Elizabeth had retired. As I heard it, the whole truth
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: rushed into my mind. My arms dropped. The motion of
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: every muscle and fiber was suspended. I could feel the
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: blood trickling in my veins and tingling in the extremities
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: of my limbs. This state lasted but for an instant.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: The scream was repeated and I rushed into the room.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Great God, why did I not expire? Why am I
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: here to relate the destruction of the best hope and
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: the purest creature on earth? She was there, lifeless and inanimate,
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: thrown across her bed, her head hanging down and her
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: pill and distorted features half covered by her hair. Everywhere
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: I turned, I see the same figure, her bloodless arms
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: in a relaxed form, flung by the murderer on his
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: bridled bear. Could I behold this and live? Alas, life
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: is obstinate and cleans closest where it is most hated.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: For a moment only did I lose recollection. I fell
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: slinstly on the ground.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: Yay! You got a kid coming out.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we did it. For those who stuck around for this,
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: thank you.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's creepy. That is creepy. Yes, there is
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: a reason that Mary Shelley is sometimes called the mother
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: of horror. And we all know this story has had
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: a lasting legacy. So let's talk about the entirety of
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: the book, how it came to be and its influences,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: and the influence it continues to have. Because there's some
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: really interesting stuff in here that I didn't know. Mary
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Shelley was born in 1797 and died in 1851. Her mother,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Mary Wollstonecraft, was the author of A Vindication of the
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Rights of Woman and is often described as a proto-feminist.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: She died from complications due to childbirth shortly after Shelley's birth.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: And this had an impact on Shelley's writing. So did
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: the fact that her father had a lot of connections.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: He was an author and a political figure. So Mary
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Shelley was exposed to a lot of these influences at
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: a young age. She was a big fan of Paradise Lost.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: She read a lot of books. Because Frankenstein is so
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: influential and well-known, there is some myth-building about how it
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: came to be. I think a lot of you have
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: probably heard this story, Samantha.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: It was when I was like, oh, this is cool.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: She was a part of a club like me as
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: a kid. We all love clubs.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: You do like a good club. Yeah, so the popularly
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: reported story is that Mary Shelley... was involved in a
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: group of cohorts that got together and wrote ghost and
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: horror stories. One version says that there was a contest
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: initiated by Lord Byron. Let's see who can write the
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: best ghost story. And according to Mary Shelley, she had
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: this idea during a waking dream of a scientist who
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: was horrified by his own creation and tried to reawaken
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: a corpse. So the elements were there. At the time,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: there were like massive advances in science and technology happening.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: And when this came out, it was a really unique
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: take on the fantastical, but it was grounded in science.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: So thus Frankenstein was born. Thank you. Thank you. I
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: got you. But there is a lot going on here
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: that I didn't know. It's been a minute since I
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: had read Frankenstein before doing this research. And I learned
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: a lot, especially about some of the feminist readings or
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: interpretations of it. And you know we love a good,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: we love talking about themes. One that comes up when
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: we're talking about a lot of horror stories is motherhood.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Because that's pretty scary, right? Yeah. I know this is
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: 18 and over, but I know there are some parents
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: out there that are like, yes, children, oh my God.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: We love them, but why? Yes.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: The true horror. So, as we mentioned, Shelley's mother died
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: due to complications from childbirth, and Shelley herself lost two
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: children by the time of Frankenstein's publication. Despite Dr. Frankenstein
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: and his monster both being male characters, it's not hard
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: to interpret this through the lens of having a child
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: or being unable to and reaching for a dangerous, untested
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: scientific method to have one. When Shelley wrote this, there
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: was a lot of fear around pregnancy because it was dangerous.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Still is. Yeah. Thank you for that. It was dangerous.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: It was something that patriarchal structures wanted to control. And
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: so by having these two lead male characters, she stuck
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: to the status quo because it was about men. But
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: she was telling a story that really resonated with women
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: who had anxieties around childbirth. focusing on the trauma of creation.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: And that is not always this good idealized thing that
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: it was painted as. Like, yes, this is the best thing.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Right. I mean, we know as things are going and
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: as the world has become now, we know the dangers
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: of childbirth and we know that a lot of things
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: that we think should be already a conversation or at
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: least have some good resolution, there isn't. And it seems
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: to be going backwards. So it was really dangerous at
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: a certain point in time just to have children. We
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: know that the number for the maternal mortality rate is
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: going up more and more. But you have to have
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: that discussion. Is this something viable? Is this dangerous? What
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: do we need to look at? And where are we, essentially?
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And Shelley was really concerned also about anxieties around
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: having an unwanted child and the loss of freedom that
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: women at the time would face because of that. Since
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Victor is a man, he's not blamed like women would
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: be for an unplanned pregnancy, but instead is pitied. So
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: according to some research that I was looking into, that
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: was purposeful. She wanted to do that. So this was
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: commenting on women's fear of not having a choice or
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: bodily autonomy and being banished to the sphere of domesticity.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: And portraying these fears through male characters was a clever
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: way to sneak in Feminist Messaging, her work. Oh, you
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: know what?
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: This kind of reminds me of your other, one of
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: your favorite horror movies, Alien, because I believe they did
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: that there too, right?
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: You know that they did, because we did a very
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: long episode about it where I just went on and
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: on and on. If you, listen, if you come hang
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: out with us after the show to the viewers in
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: the audience, you want to hear about Alien, I will,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: I'm there. I've got you. So, So also Shelly may
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: have chosen main male characters to comment on pregnancy to avoid.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: We've got some scandals. Samantha, I know you love a
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: good scandal.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: I love some tea. Give me that tea.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Yes. So she may have done this to avoid having
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: her work connected to the fact that her mother had
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: children out of wedlock, which was very scandalous at the time.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: And she was worried that her whole work would be
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: dismissed because of it. So she's trying to distance herself
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: from that. And I love this. It may in part
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: be a commentary on the failings of her father, too. Yes,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: because her mother, after her mother died, she and her
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: father drifted apart. They had been really, really close prior
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: to that. Once he remarried, though, he pretty much ignored
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: her in favor of his new wife. Yeah. So when
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: the creature in the book confronts Victor over his treatment
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: of him, He basically points out, you know, you created me.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: You despise me, but you created me. And Shelley dedicated
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: the book to her father after they were estranged. Which
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: seems like some real shade.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: A little shade. We love some shade. Yes.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: I love it. Another thing going on here was an
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: anxiety around illegitimate children. That was very prevalent at the time.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: And she had a lot of reasons why this was
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: on her mind. One is that her half-sister died by
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: suicide after learning she was the product of an affair
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: that their mother had. On top of that, her future
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: husband's first wife died by suicide while pregnant, allegedly with
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: an illegitimate child. And this death really, really shook Shelley up.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: She wrote about it in her journal how bad she
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: felt about it because she was pregnant with her ex-husband,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: the woman who died by suicide, her ex-husband's child. And
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: so she felt really guilty for having this child. And
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: this was all happening about the time that she was
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: writing Frankenstein. It was a little before. So this was
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: weighing on her. And if you think about it, the
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: creature is an illegitimate creation. It doesn't have a lineage.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: He's punished, treated cruelly for being illegitimate. And also Victor
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: kind of tries to distance himself from the creature, which
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: is something that men could do at the time, but
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: women couldn't really do. So I think you can really
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: see this as Shelley's guilt being projected onto Victor, a
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: guilt of creating something, an act of creation that hurt others,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: which is how she viewed her child. However, she goes
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: out of her way to highlight that people can't control
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: their own creation and So, isolation, the self-loathing, the judgment
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: faced by illegitimate children at the time didn't make any
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: sense to her. I do think it's interesting, too, that
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: the absence of female voices, you could also say, emphasizes
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: some of the male characters' flaws. Yes. Like Victor's unchecked
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: power that leads to harm and tragedy for himself and
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: the creature. Also, those around him. His wife. Hello?
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Like, immediately gone.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Immediately gone. Yeah, we're not going to go into that
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: too much today, but that is a very prevalent trope
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: in horror. It's not exactly fridging, but it's very related
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: to fridging in this. Yeah, and we're also not going
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: to go into the whole please make me a bride thing, but,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: you know. But yeah, I mean, you could say he doesn't...
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Victor kind of serves as both the paternal and the
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: maternal in this book, which is really fascinating. But You know,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: would this have happened if he had asked a woman,
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: was this a good idea? I don't know.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: Maybe ask.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: We'll never know. We'll never know. Yeah, but we could
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: go on and on. Right.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Frankenstein, obviously, is a classic. I think most of us
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: read it in high school, and then some of us
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: loved it a little more and was really into it.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: So this is one of those broad conversations, because there's
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: so much more that you could take from it outside
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: of our small excerpt.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Yes, and just a reminder, I hope it's clear. We're
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: just reading excerpts from these, but you can get the
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: whole thing online for free because public domain. Public domain, Gutenberg. Yes.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: We love public domain. Gutenberg.org, they have a whole project
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: of all of them, so you can just look it up.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Yes. But to wrap that up, it's had a really
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: lasting impact. It's a pop culture phenomenon. The themes and
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: questions it asks are unfortunately still pretty relevant.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: To this day. As it goes.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: But that's Frankenstein.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's Frankenstein. Y'all ready to go into the next one?
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Let's go. It's very seldom that mere ordinary people like
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: John and myself secure ancestral halls for the summer. A
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: colonial mansion, a hereditary estate, I would say a haunted house,
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: and reach the height of romantic felicity. But that would
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: be asking too much of fate. Still, I would proudly
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: declare that there's something queer about it. Else, why should
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: it be let so cheaply? And why have so stood
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: so long, untenanted? John laughs at me, of course, but
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: one expects that in marriage. John is practical to the extreme.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: He has no faith, no patience with faith, an intense
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: horror of superstition, and he scoffs openly at any talk
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: of things not to be felt and seen and put
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: down in figures. John, he's a physician, and perhaps... And
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: I would not say this to a living soul, of course,
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: but this is dead paper and a great relief to
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: my mind. Perhaps that is one reason I do not
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: get well faster. You see, he doesn't believe that I'm sick.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: And what can one do if a physician of high
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: standing and one's own husband assures friends and relatives that
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: there's nothing the matter with one but temporary nervous depression?
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: A slight.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: hysterical tendency. What is one to do? She observes her
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: new home.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: There is a delicious garden. I never saw such a garden.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: Large and shady, full of box-bordered paths and lined with
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: long grape-covered arbors with seats under them. There are greenhouses, too,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: but they are all broken now. There is some legal trouble,
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: I believe, something about the heirs and co-heirs. Anyhow, this
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: place has been empty for years. That spoils my ghostliness,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: I am afraid. But I don't care. There is something
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: strange about the house. I can feel it. I even
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: said so to John one moonlight evening, but he said
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: what I felt was a draft. Shut the window. I
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: get unreasonably angry with John sometimes. I'm sure I never
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: used to be so sensitive. I think it is due
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: to this nervous condition. But John says if I feel so,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: I shall neglect proper self-control. So I take pains to
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: control myself. For him, at least. And that makes me
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: very tired. I don't like our room a bit. I
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: wanted one downstairs that opened on the piazza and had
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: roses over the window. And such pretty old-fashioned chintz hangings.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: But John would not hear it. He said there was
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: only one window and not room for two beds and
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: no near room for him if he took another. He's
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: very careful and loving. and hardly lets me stir without
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: special direction. Later, as she adapts.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Life is very much more exciting now than it used
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: to be. You see, I have something more to expect,
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: to look forward to, to watch. I really do eat better,
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: and I'm more quiet than I was. John is so
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: pleased to see me improve. He laughed a little the
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: other day and said I seem to be flourishing in
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: spite of my wallpaper. I turned it off with a laugh.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: I had no intention of telling him it was because
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: of the wallpaper. He would make fun of me. He
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: might even want to take me away. I don't want
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: to leave now, not until I find it out. There's
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: a week more, and I think that will be enough.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: I'm feeling ever so much better. I don't sleep much
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: at night, for it is so interesting to watch developments,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: but I sleep a good deal in the daytimes. In
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: the daytime, it is tiresome and perplexing. There are always
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: new shoots on the fungus, new shades of yellow all
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: over it. I cannot keep count of them, though I
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: have tried conscientiously. It is the strangest yellow, that wallpaper.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: It makes me think of all the yellow things I
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: ever saw. Not beautiful ones like buttercups, but old, foul,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: bad yellow things.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: I really have discovered something at last. Though watching so
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: much at night when it changes so, I have finally
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: found out. The front pattern does move, and no wonder
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: the woman behind shakes it. Sometimes I think there are
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: a great many women behind, and sometimes only one. And
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: she crawls around fast, and her crawling shakes it all over.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: Then in the very bright spots, she keeps still. And
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: in the very shady spots, she just takes hold of
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: the bars and shakes them. And she is all the
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: time trying to climb through, but nobody could climb through
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: that pattern. It strangles. I think that is why so
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: many heads are there. They get through and then the
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: pattern strangles them off and turns them upside down and
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: makes their eyes white. If those heads were covered or
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: taken off, it wouldn't be half so bad.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: There are only two more days to get this paper off,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: and I believe John is beginning to notice. I don't
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: like the look in his eyes. And I heard him
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: ask Ginny a lot of professional questions about me. She
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: had a very good report to give. She said I
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: slept a good deal in the daytime. John knows I
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: don't sleep very well at night, for all I'm so quiet.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: He asked me all sorts of questions, too, and pretended
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: to be very loving and kind. As if I couldn't
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: see through him. Still... I don't wonder he acts so,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: sleeping under this paper for three months. It only interests me,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: but I feel sure John and Jenny are secretly affected
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: by it.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: Oh yes, this is the last bidet, but it is enough.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: John is to stay in town overnight and won't be
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: out until this evening. Jenny wanted to sleep with me,
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: that sly thing, but I told her I should undoubtedly
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: rest better for a night all alone. That was clever,
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: for really, I wasn't alone a bit. As soon it
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: was moonlight and that poor thing began to crawl and
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: shake the pattern, I got up and ran to help her.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: I pulled and she shook. I shook and she pulled.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: And before morning, we had peeled off yards of that paper,
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: a strip about as high as my head and half
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: around the room. And then when the sun came, that
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: awful pattern began to laugh at me. I declared I
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: would finish it today. We go away tomorrow, and they
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: are moving all my furniture down again to leave things
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: as they were before. Jenny looked at the wall in amazement,
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: but I told her merrily that I did it out
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: of pure spite. All of the vicious thing. She laughed
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: and said she wouldn't mind helping, but I mustn't get
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: too tired. But she betrayed herself that time. But I
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: am here, and no person touches that paper but me.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: Not alive.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: She tried to get me out of the room. It
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: was too patent. But I said it was quiet and
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: empty and clean now that I believed I would lie
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: down again, sleep all I could, and to not wake
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: me even for dinner. I would call when I woke.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: She now is gone. and all the servants are gone,
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: and the things are gone, and there's nothing left but
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: that great bedstead nailed down with a canvas mattress we
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: found on it.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: We shall sleep downstairs tonight and take the boat home tomorrow.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: I quite enjoy the room. Now it is bare again.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: How those children did tear about here. This bedstead is
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: fairly gnawed, but I must get to work. I have
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: locked the door and thrown the key down into the
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: front path. I don't want to go out, and I
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: don't want to have anybody come in till John Carpenter.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: I want to astonish him. I've got a rope up
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: here that even Ginny did not find. If that woman
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: does get out and tries to get away, I can tire.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: But I forgot I could not reach far without anything
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: to stand on. This bed will not move. I tried
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: to lift and push it until I was lame, and
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: then I got so angry I bit off a little
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: piece at one corner, but it hurt my teeth. Then
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: I peeled off all the paper I could reach standing
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: on the floor. It sticks horribly, and the pattern just
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: enjoys it. All those strangled heads and bulbous eyes and
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: waddling fungus growths just shriek with derision.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: I am getting angry enough to do something desperate. To
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: jump out the window would be admirable exercise, but the
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: bars are too strong even to try. Besides, I wouldn't
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: do it. Of course not. I know well enough that
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: a step like that is improper and might be misconstrued.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: I don't like to look out of the windows even.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: There's so many of those creeping women, and they creep
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: so fast. I wonder if they'll all come out of
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: that paper as I did, but I am securely fastened
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: now by my well-hidden rope. You don't get me out
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: in the road there. I suppose I shall have to
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: get behind the pattern when it comes night, and that
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: is hard. It is so pleasant to be out in
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: the great room and creep around as I please. I
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: don't want to go outside. I won't, even if Jenny
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: asks me to, for outside you have to creep on
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: the ground and everything is green instead of yellow. But
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: here I can creep smoothly on the floor and my
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: shoulder fits in that long smooch around the wall, so
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: I cannot lose my way.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Why, there's John at the door. There's no use, young man,
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: you can't open it. How he does call and pound.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: Now he's crying for an axe. It would be a
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: shame to break down that beautiful door. John, dear, said
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: I in the gentlest voice, the key is down by
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: the front steps under a plantain leaf. That silenced him
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: for a few moments. Then he said, very quietly indeed,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: open the door, my darling. I can't, said I. The
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: key is down by the front door under a plantain leaf.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: And then I said it again, several times, very gently
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: and slowly. Said it so often that he had to
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: go and see. And he got it, of course, and
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: came in. He stopped short by the door.' What is
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: the matter?' he cried.' For God's sakes, what are you doing?'
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: I kept on creeping just the same, but I looked
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: at him over my shoulder.' I' ve got out at last,'
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: said I,' in spite of you and Jane,' and I
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: pulled off most of the paper, 'so you can't put
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: me back.' Now why would that man have fainted? But
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: he did, and right across my path by the wall—
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: so that I had to creep over him every time.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: So, did this sound familiar to you? Because this is
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: one of the ones that I read in high school.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: It was The Yellow Wallpaper by Charlotte Perkins Gilman. Did
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: y'all have a discussion? Like, the whole thing?
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: No?
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I can see y'all. Raise your hand.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. That works.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: That works. Yeah, so this is one of my favorite pieces.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: I remember the story so well, and it haunted me.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: I was like, what is happening? And something about great fiction,
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: and really with all the English people you know, it
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: brings out really good discussion. Even today, as in fact,
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: when we were researching this, I noticed that there was
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: a debate about the ending. Because I didn't realize, and
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know why, everybody has different opinions. A lot
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: of people have different opinions about what they think happened
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: at the end. To me, because, and we're going to
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: talk about it a little bit more, it's centered around
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: postpartum depression in children. I really thought it was because
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: maybe Jane, the main character, had killed her baby, and
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: that's what John walked in on, because he fainted. There
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: had to be a good reason to faint, right? You know,
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: dead body maybe? But I found out, oh, maybe I'm
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: completely wrong, because Annie, you had a whole different interpretation, right?
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I did, but I think I might have just
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: made this up. I think I was being very imaginative.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: But I thought the main character was killed by her husband.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: Yes. Oh, maybe I wasn't making it up. This is fantastic.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: Where I think I got a little bit more fantastical
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: is I thought that he put her in the wall
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: to hide her. And it was like supposed to represent
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: all the women before her that had been murdered. And
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: then the cycle would continue and a new woman and
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: her husband would come in. And then would she be
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: murdered as well? I don't know. But for some reason,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: that's what I thought happened.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: That's a good take because I don't know. Maybe there
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: was an interpretation of that because we know a lot
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: of people take this writing and turn it into their
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: own film or adaptation. There was others who really thought
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: that she had hung herself or hanged herself. And the
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: woman behind the wall was watching and saw that John
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: had passed out. They were like, oh, no, she had
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: died by suicide. And that's what happened. And then another
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: post actually said that the husband was just shocked. by
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: seeing her all disheveled and all the paper off and
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: her probably bloody from chewing on a bedpost, I'm going
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: to assume, and that he just passed out. He was
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: just kind of like, oh no. And they're like, oh, okay.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: So there's a lot of discussion about what happened. And
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: we could talk about that forever, but this is not
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: an English class. So we're going to move on. You
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: can talk to me about your theories later. First, we
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: did want to talk about Charlotte Perkins Gilman because her
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: history is unique as well. So she was also thought
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: of as an early feminist. She really wanted to advocate
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: for equal rights and financial equity because they have experienced
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: some things in her childhood. She was like, yeah, women
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: need to be able to have money, make money, and
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: then take care of themselves. She was influenced by her aunt,
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: Harriet Beecher Stowe, which I did not realize was her aunt.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: She was the writer of Uncle Tom's Cabin. Hello. And
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: she obviously was an abolitionist and a suffragette. And then
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: her other aunt was Isabella Beecher Hooker, who was also
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: a prominent suffragette. So she really had a lot of
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: people that influenced her. And as a child, her father
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: actually left them, leaving them destitute. So they had to
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: cling to her aunts, who were her father's sister's. to
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: be financially taken care of. So at that point, she
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: was like, yeah, nah, we need to be able to
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: financially take care of ourselves because my dad, they were
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: actually pretty close until he left. And he would still
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: send letters, which I guess was helpful. I don't know.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: But that really did shape her childhood and her being
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: an advocate and an activist. So the story in itself
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: was birthed after her own ordeal with postpartum and the
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: usage of the rest cure. And we're going to come
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: back to that in a minute. So the whole ordeal
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: was really traumatic for her. And she wrote this story
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: as a way to work through her thoughts and her
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: traumas and also to kind of come after the doctor
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: who prescribed the rest cure. And by the way, she
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: came to the conclusion that being in the marriage with
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: her husband at the time was the reason that she
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: was severely depressed and was like, yeah, let me just
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: go ahead and get divorced. I'll feel much better. Kind
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: of worked.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: So, you know, good on her.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: But for a bit, let's talk about the story in itself.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: So one of the things that we often have to
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: ask in horror, like we love horror, is why didn't
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: he believe her?
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: Hello? Hello?
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: It says, as self-proclaimed experts, again, we see this over
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: and over again where the men hardly ever listen to
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: the women. They're like, oh, we got to go. We
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: got to run. I'm scared. Let's not stay here. All
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: of those things. And not believing them ends up getting him, her,
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: or all of them killed, right? And I'm like, why? Why?
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: We actually have a whole episode called Why Didn't You
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: Believe Her that you can go to and get the answers.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: That is the age-old question. And this isn't just with horror, unfortunately.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: It's also a prime example of people or the community
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: or society not believing women in general. And this happens
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: within things like health care and medicine. So just to
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: give you some stats and some sad stats, I'm sorry,
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: but we love a good stat. So there was a
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: Gallup poll from 2026 this year that pretty much said 51%
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: of the women that they spoke with felt like they
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: had encountered some negative or bad experience in the last
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: five years, um, including being dismissed, being told that they're
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: imagining things, saying that whatever's wrong with them, they just
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: need to go home and sleep or lose weight. They
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: weren't being diagnosed. They were being misdiagnosed. And oftentimes that
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: caused them to have more harm. While only 39% of
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: the men felt that way. So they still felt that
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: way too, but it's significantly more with women. And some
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: of the excuses are similar to the themes of the story,
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: including that they're being hysterical or overdramatic, or maybe they're
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: imagining it. And it still happens today. So one of
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: the highest or best examples of this is the maternal
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: mortality rate in the U.S. with the fact that one
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: of the highest causes of that is postpartum hemorrhaging, which
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: is preventable. But we have noticed the professionals do not
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: listen when people who are pregnant or having children are like, no,
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: there's something wrong. This doesn't feel right. And they're like, eh,
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: it's fine. It's normal. You're just overthinking it. And oftentimes
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: it ends in death. Mama. Sorry. But this does happen
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: a lot. And within the story, again, we see this
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: over and over again about not believing women. Even the
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: doctor physician husband was not listening to her when she
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: says something is wrong. I'm not okay. She begs him
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: to leave the house. She begs him to change the rooms. Nope. Nope.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: Just don't worry about it. You'll be fine. She even says,
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: I'm sick. And he's like, nah, no, you're not. Here
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: you go. Let's just hang out here. And then in
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: the end, yeah, it ended up being that she was
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: not so well, and she continues to get haunted. And
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: with that, I do kind of want to talk about
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: what she was doing. So the author herself, Gilman herself,
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: why she wanted to write this story. But with that,
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: so the usage of the rescuer, Gilman came out with
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: a perfect horror story, so this horror story. So what
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: exactly is the rest cure? It was created by Ware
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: Mitchell in 1872, originally for veterans of the Civil War.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: It was a very specific procedure that involved mostly most
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: complete isolation rest and allowing the doctor to have complete
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: control and authority. Like literally, you don't get out of
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: bed unless I tell you to. You eat when I
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: tell you to. After the initial usage with the soldiers,
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: women were soon prescribed this treatment for postpartum hysteria or,
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: you know, wandering uterus, because my uterus loves to float
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: to my eyeball. That's its favorite place.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: Don't I know it.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: So this cure was a very popular treatment within the
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: Victorian era, and they would often use it for, again, hysteria, PTSD,
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: and also those who were suffering depression with the fondness
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: to write. Apparently, that's a symptom of depression.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, no.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: It's not completely wrong. It's not completely wrong, right? Okay.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: The previous treatment before the usage of RestCure included leaching, caudalization,
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: and the ovaryotomy, where they just decided to remove a
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: completely healthy ovary, because obviously that's your problem. You don't
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: need that, right? Gilman was like, you know what? I'm
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: going to write this based on my own experience. And
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: she actually wrote a piece called Why I Wrote the
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: Yellow Wallpaper. And this is what she says. For many years,
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: I suffered from severe and continuous nervous breakdown, tending to
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: melancholy and beyond. During about the third year of this trouble,
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: I went in devout faith in some faint stir of
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: hope to a notice specialist in nervous diseases, the best
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: known in the country. This wise man put me to
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: bed and applied the rest cure, to which a still
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: good physique responded so promptly that he concluded there was
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: nothing much the matter with me and sent me home
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: with solemn advice to, quote, live as domestic a life
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: as far as possible, to have but two hours intellectual
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: life a day, and never touch pen, brush, or pencil
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: again as long as I lived. This was in 1887.
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: By the way, the yellow wallpaper was published in 1890.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: I went home and obeyed these directions for some three
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: months and came so near the borderline of utter mental
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: ruin that I could see over. Then, using the remnants
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: of intelligence that remained and helped by a wise friend,
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: I cast the noted specialist's advice to the winds and
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: went to work again. Work, the normal life of every
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: human being. Work, in which is joy and growth and service. Which, without,
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: is a pauper and a parasite, ultimately recovering some measure
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: of power. So she was real, real, like, nah, uh-uh.
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: In the end, she was able to recover... She sent
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: this story to that physician. She was like, you know what?
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: Let me be shady as well. Yes. Here you go, bro.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: Here you go. More shade.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: The shade. She's like, you think you know?
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: No, you don't.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: He never responded to her publicly. He was like, whatever.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: But she was told by others who had run into
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: him and talked to him that after reading the story,
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: he was like, oh, okay, I might not do this anymore.
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: And he never did it again, apparently. So we love
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: a good, happy ending, right? Yeah. So the rest cure
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: was ended in like the use of it in 1924.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: But there were other types of treatment that were used
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: after the fact and are still used, including lobotomies. Y'all
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: know about that, who are mainly used on women for
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: a certain period of time for anything from postpartum to
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: PTSD to, again, hysteria. And they also moved on to
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: electric electroconvulsive therapy or ECT which is still used today
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: and it turns out like I think the percentage went
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: from like 60% to 82% of the patients were women
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: and then the ones who are prescribing or doing these
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: treatments were like 85 90% men so it was like
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: men want to do this on women which is Suspicious?
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: All that to say, it also, it turns out that
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: women are given a lot less information about the procedure.
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: The side effects are much worse on women, including, like,
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: memory loss. And it is less effective for women than men. So,
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: because typically it was originally used for schizophrenia and veterans
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: as well. So, there's a lot to note. That was sad. Yes.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry about that. It kind of happens when we
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: do stuff Mom Never Told You, the intersectional feminism conversation. Yeah,
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: that's what we do. Yes. So with that, yes, thank you.
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: I got like a snap in here.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: We're going to take it. A little more lightheartedly, yeah?
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for our final story, we are going to read
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: the fairy tale, The Two Sisters. Once upon a time,
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: there were two sisters who were as like each other
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: as two peas in a pod, but one was good
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: and the other was bad-tempered. Now, their father had no work,
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: so the girls began to think of going to service.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: I will go first and see what I can make
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: of it, said the younger sister, ever so cheerfully. Then you, sis,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: can follow if I have good luck. So she packed
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: up a bundle, said goodbye, and started to find a place.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: But no one in the town wanted a girl, and
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: she went farther afield into the country. And as she journeyed,
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: she came upon an oven in which a lot of
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: loaves were baking. Now as she passed, the loaves cried
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: out with one voice, Little girl, little girl, take us out,
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: please take us out. We have been baking for seven years,
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: and no one has come to take us out. Do
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: take us out, or we shall soon be burnt. Then,
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: being a kind, obliging little girl, she stopped, put down
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: her bundle, took out the bread, and went on her way, saying,
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: You will be more comfortable now.
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: After a time, she came to a cow lowing beside
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: an empty pill, and the cow said to her, Little girl,
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: little girl, please milk me, please, please milk me. Seven
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: years have I been waiting, but no one has come
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: to milk me. So the kind girl stopped, put down
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: her bundle, milked the cow into the pail, and went
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: on her way, saying, Now you'll be more comfortable.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: By and by she came to an apple tree, so
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: laden with fruit that its branches were nigh to break.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: And the apple tree called to her, Little girl, little girl,
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: please shake my branches. The fruit is so heavy, I
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: can't stand straight. Then the kind girl stopped, put down
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: her bundle, and shook the branches so that the apples
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: fell off, and the tree could stand straight. Then she
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: went on her way, saying, You will be more comfortable now.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: So she journeyed on till she came to a house
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: where an old witch woman lived. Now this witch woman
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: wanted a servant maid and promised good wages. Therefore, the
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: girl agreed to stop with her and try how she
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: liked servants. She had to sweep the floor, keep the
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: house clean and tidy, the fire bright and cheery. But
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: there was one thing the witch woman said she must
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: never do, and that was look up the chimney. If
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: you do, said the witch woman, something will fall down
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: on you, and you will come to a bad end. Well...
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: The girl swept and dusted and made up the fire,
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: but ne'er a penny of wages did she see. Now
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: the girl wanted to go home, as she did not
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: like witch service, for the witch used to have boiled
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: babies for supper and bury the bones under some stones
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: in the garden, but she did not want to go
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: home empty, penniless. So she stayed on, sweeping and dusting
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: and doing her work, just as if she was pleased.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: Then one day, as she was sweeping up the hearth,
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: down tumbled some soot, and without remembering that she was
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: forbidden to look up the chimney, she looked up to
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: see where the soot came from, and lo and behold,
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: a big bag of gold fell plump into her lap.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: Now the witch happened to be out on one of
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: her witch errands, so the girl thought it a fine
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: opportunity to be off home. So she kilted up her
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: petticoats and started to run home, but she had only
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: gone a little way when she heard the witch woman
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: coming after her on her broomstick. Now the apple tree
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: she had helped to stand straight happened to be quite close,
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: so she ran to it and cried, Apple tree, apple tree,
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: hide me, so the old witch can't find me, for
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: if she does, she'll pick my bones and bury me
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: under the garden stones. Then the apple tree said, Of
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: course I will. You helped me to stand straight. One
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: good turn deserves another. So the apple tree hid her
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: finally in its green branches, and when the witch flew
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: past saying, Tree of mine, tree of mine, have you
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: seen my naughty little maid with a willy-willy wag and
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: a great big bag? She's stolen my money, all I had.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: The apple tree answered, No, mother dear, not for seven year.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: So the witch flew on the wrong way, and the
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: girl got down, thanked the tree politely, and started again.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: But just as she got to where the cow was
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: standing beside the pill, she heard the witch coming again.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: So she ran to the cow and cried, Cow, cow,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: please hide me so the witch can't find me. If
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: she does, she'll pick my bones and bury me under
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: the garden stones. Certainly I will, answered the cow. Didn't
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: you milk me, make me comfortable? Hide yourself behind me
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: and you'll be safe. And when the witch flew by
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: and called to the cow, Oh, cow of mine, cow
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: of mine, have you seen my gnarly little maid with
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: a willy-willy wag and a great big bag? Who stole
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: my money, all that I had? She just said politely, No,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: mother dear, not for seven years.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: Then the old witch went on in the wrong direction,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: and the girl started afresh on her way home. But
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: just as she got to where the oven stood, She
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: heard that horrid old witch coming behind her again. So
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: she ran as fast as she could to the oven
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: and cried, Oh, oven, oven, hide me, so as the
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: witch can't find me. For if she does, she'll pick
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: my bones and bury them under the garden stones. Then
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: the oven said, I'm afraid there is no room for you,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: as another batch of bread is baking. But there is
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: the baker. Ask him. So she asked the baker, and
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: he said, Of course I will. You saved my last
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: batch from being burnt. So run into the bakehouse. You
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: will be quite safe there, and I will settle the
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: witch for you. So she hid in the bakehouse only
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: just in time, but there was the old witch calling angrily, Oh,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: man of mine, man of mine, have you seen my
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: naughty little maid with a willy-willy wag and a great
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: big bag who stole my money all I had? Then
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: the baker replied, Look in the oven. She may be there.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: And the witch alighted from her broomstick and peered into
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: the oven. She could see no one. Creep in and
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: look in the farthest corner, said the baker slyly. And
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: the witch crept in when, bang, he shut the door
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: in her face. And there she was roasting. And when
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: she came out with the bread, she was all crisp
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: and brown and had to go home as best she
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: could and put cold cream all over her. But the kind,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: obliging little girl got safe home with her bag of money.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: Now, the ill-tempered elder sister was very jealous of this
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: good luck and determined to get a bag of gold
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: for herself. So she, in turn, packed up a bundle
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: and settled and started to seek service by the same road.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: But when she came to the oven and the loaves
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: begged her to take them out because they had been
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: baking seven years and were neither burning, she tossed her
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: head and said, A likely story indeed, and I could
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: burn my fingers to save your crust? No, thank you.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: And with that, she went on till she came across
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: the cow standing waiting to be milked beside the pill.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: But when the cow said, little girl, little girl, milk me,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: please milk me. I've waited seven years to be milked.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: She only laughed and said, you may wait another seven
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: years for all I care. I'm not your dairy maid.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: And with that, she went on till she came to
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: the apple tree, all overburdened by its fruit. But when
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: it begged her to shake its branches, she only giggled,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: plucked one ripe apple, and said, One is enough for me.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: You can keep the rest for yourself. And with that,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: she went munching on the apple till she came to
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: the witch woman's house.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: Now the witch woman, though she had gotten over being
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: crisp and brown from the oven, was dreadfully angry with
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: all little maidservants, and made up her mind that this
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: one should not trick her. So for a long time,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: she never went out of the house. Thus, the ill-tempered
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: sister never had a chance of looking up the chimney,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: as she had meant to do at once. And she
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: had to dust and clean and brush and sweep ever
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: so hard until she was quite tired out. But one day,
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: when the witch woman went into the garden to bury
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: her bones, she seized the moment, looked up the chimney,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: and sure enough, a bag of gold fell plump into
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: her lap. Well, she was off with it in a
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: moment and ran and ran until she came to the
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: apple trees. And she heard the witch woman behind her.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: So she cried as her sister had done. Appletree, Appletree,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: hide me, so the old witch can't find me. For
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: if she does, she'll break my bones or bury me
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: under the garden stones. The Appletree said, No room here.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: I've got too many apples.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: So she had to run on, and the witch woman
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: on her broomsleeve came flying by and called, Oh, tree
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: of mine, tree of mine, have you seen a naughty
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: little maid with a willy-willy wagon and a great big bag?
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: Who stole my money? All I had. The apple tree cried, Yes,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: mother dear, she's gone down there. Then the witch woman
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: went after her, caught her, gave her a thorough good beating,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: took the bag of money away from her, and sent
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: her home without a penny payment for all her dusting
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: and sweeping and brushing and cleaning. The end. We might
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: be over our time, so we're going to have to
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: do a real quick discussion on this one. Yes. Man,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: we love fairy tales. And when you go into the
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: depth of what the fairy tale was, we talk about
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: the Grimm brothers. We talked about the different legends. It's
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: kind of hard to pinpoint where they originate. So this
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: one was a specific one written by a woman.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: Where? No, it was translated by a woman.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: Translated, my bad.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, because a lot of fairy tales are oral traditions.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: This one is believed to be a Scottish or English
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: oral tradition from the 17th century. And if you look
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: it up, there are so many versions of it. The
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: Brothers Grimm has one that's kind of similar. And then
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: eventually it gets transcribed, um, So that was a woman
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: in 1924 who did this. Yes.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: So we wanted to include fairy tales because there are
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: so many things behind it. You guys know, I think,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: or you probably all know about the Disneyfication of fairy tales.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: So they're really cute and fun and like happy endings
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: all around. When in actuality, most of them were not
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: happy endings.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: Yes. No, you've recently been traumatized by the Little Mermaid.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: Little Mermaid.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: You keep bringing it up.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: That was too much for me to handle. I was like, wait, what?
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: She doesn't get to be with the prince? She really
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: sees someone else marrying the prince, and then she just dies.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: Spoilers, yes.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's real dark.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, one of the fun things about this one,
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: a lot of fairy tales operate as more morality tales,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: cautionary tales. That's what they were for. especially when the
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: world is still really, really mysterious. And you got to
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: love a good witch. We are very happy when we
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: get to talk about witches.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: You know, you can be a witch for brewing beer
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: or having thought or maybe wearing the wrong dress, you know,
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: stuff like that. And that makes you a witch. We
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: know that it was really weaponized against women for so
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: long that when you start going back to be like,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: maybe the witches weren't that bad, to be fair. She
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: did not pay a living wage to those maids. So
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: that was wrong. And we're all about fair wages.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: Hello.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: But that's right. That's right. But I mean, we don't
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: actually know if she ate those babies. They just said
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: she used to, you know?
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: It's all hearsay. Slander. Also, shout out to that cold cream.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: That's what I got to say. You get put in
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: an oven, burnt to a crisp. I've got a cream
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: just for this situation. Just for that.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: I'm going to assume she's Korean or some kind of
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: Asian person because cold cream, am I right?
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, when you get a witch, I
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: do think we're kind of turning on who we view
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: as the villain because a lot of times you've got
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: like the witch. She's your stereotypical villain. This one has
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: a very classic, like, good-bad sister. Right. Teaching you the kindness.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: We're all about being kind. Right. But those are just
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: those tropes that are supposed to teach you how to
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: be a good person. Right. But the witch lives alone,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: and she's got this cold cream that they can't make
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: money off of in medicine, so she... We're terrifying.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: Well, also, the good girl here has to be self-sacrificing,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: and I think that's something that we've all kind of learned.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: If you're from the South, you know what I'm talking about.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: You need to be, you know... Work yourself to the bone,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: make sure you're the least happiest of everyone, and then
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: make sure everybody's good. So it's kind of that level
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: of like teaching, if you really want to be a
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: good person, you must do all these things for your
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: family and do all the best. And again, kindness is
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: one thing, but to like sacrifice yourself for the sake
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: of everyone else where you're literally... doing everything and you're
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: exhausting yourself to a point that you can't rest or
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: you're not eating well and you're doing everything because you're
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: trying to take care of everybody first, that's not always
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: the way to be. So you need to have that
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: balance and understanding. If you're not caring for yourself or
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: if you're not taking care of it, you really can't
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: care for others. So that's kind of that balance in
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: this conversation because for the longest time it was told
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: no absolutely give up everything of yourself in order to
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: be the good in this story.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah and to close so that we have time for
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: Q & A with our good viewers here we clearly,
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: I think it's really important to talk about these stories
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: and the tropes in them, what they're trying to tell us,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: and the context, the context of the time. And that's
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: one of the reasons we like talking about horror is
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: because they're a reflection of what we fear as a society.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: And that is just endlessly fascinating to us. And we're
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: also really happy that more women are writing horror now.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: We love horror. Recommendations always welcome. Yes. Yes. But yeah,
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: I think that is it. Please. Thank you so much
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: for coming. It was amazing. What a great crowd. Okay.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: I think in the last.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: That brings us to the end of our very special
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: live episode from Virgin Voyages, The Valiant Lady. We did it.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: Yay.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, we did it. It was a wonderful time. We
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: hope that you enjoyed listening to it. And we hope
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: that you have a good spooky season. Yes.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: If you would like to contact us, You can. You
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: can email us at hello at stuffmonevertoldyou.com. You can find
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: us on Instagram and TikTok at stuffmonevertoldyou. We're also on YouTube.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: We have some merchandise at Cotton Bureau, and we have
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: a book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: as always, to our super producer, Rima, and our executive,
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: Bruce Maya.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: And thanks to you for listening. Stuffmonevertoldyou is a production
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, you can check
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or every listen to
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: your favorite shows.