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Fasten Your Seatbelts - The State Of Airline Travel & The Disabled Community · The QuadCast

• John McAleavey: Hello, and welcome to the latest and greatest episode of the Four Men and an SCI podcast. I'm John McAlevy coming to you from New Providence, New Jersey, and I'm joined as always by my cohorts, Mr. Barry Munro, Mr. Sasha Rabchevsky, and Dr. Trevor Dyson Hudson. Hello, gentlemen. How are we tonight? Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Hey, John. Sasha: Good, good. Calling. From Barry: Ticket boo. Ticket boo, brother. John McAleavey: Yeah. Sasha: Nicholasville, Kentucky, south of Lexington. And John McAleavey: Barry, how about where are you coming from? Barry: Just north of Toronto, Ontario, Canada. John McAleavey: Okay. And s and Trevor, take it home. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: And I'm joining you from the Bronx, New York City. John McAleavey: All right. Sasha: Stop it. John McAleavey: All right. The boogie down Bronx. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: All right. John McAleavey: Good. Well, we figured today what we wanted to talk about is something that folks in the spinal cord injured community often, if you ask them a question, you'll get a thousand different answers because each person is different with their experience. But air travel, and a lot of them will give will tell you they'll have that face of like air sickness, because it's not easy for those of us who. not only might walk funny but or are in wheelchairs and manual chairs and power chairs. They all come with their their own problems. And so I would tell one story right off the top, as someone who walks and has been walking since my injury, my worst travel nightmare was flying to visit an old roommate of mine. It was a co it was my college roommate who played 10 years in the NDA, the National Basketball Association. He was playing for the Milwaukee Bucks at the time. And we were flying out to Milwaukee and they got on the the loudspeaker in the airline and they told us we're going to be going over one of the Great Lakes now. So you might want to buckle your seatbelts because it might be a little bumpy with the air pressure. And the minute the stewardess got that out of her mouth, we dropped like 2,000 feet in a second. And it was a harrowing experience. Everybody thought we were going down and the airbags fell, and it was pretty scary. And so that is is pretty much my worst travel nightmare. I was I was able to to get on and off fairly easily, find my seat and get out of my seat and use the use the bathroom and and that whole thing. But Sasha: To okay. Yeah. John McAleavey: yeah, it wasn't at that time, I think the first time I traveled, I had a leg bag which which made it easier. I didn't really have to get up. And then once I was doing a little bit better with that situation, I was able to to get to go in and use the bathroom before I got on the plane. And then if I really had to go, I I Sasha: Right. John McAleavey: would have somebody sort of help me go. And so those are are pretty much my my i issues with with travel. So yes. Sasha: John, can I ask you a quick I was just thinking about this. Do you w you know, we all have to fasten our seatbelts, right? Do you are John McAleavey: Yes. Sasha: you able to do you have dexterity to fasten your seatbelts? John McAleavey: No, I don't. I would either have someone sitting next to me or I would or I would try try and find w one of the pretty stewardesses Sasha: Hey, I see what you say. Hey, come here. John McAleavey: to come and help me out. Yes. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. How how to meet women. Yeah. Sasha: Yeah. John McAleavey: Coffee, tea, or me. Remember they used to have those buttons, yeah. So yeah. Barry: I ja I I yeah, I want to jump on that something right away. I I because it you're making me laugh because it's a long standing joke when I travel. John McAleavey: Uh-huh. Barry: so real briefly, I'm a I'm a C56 quadriplegic and I require literally a two-person lift on and off the plane, which means I'll just go over briefly. People might may or may not understand. I have a manual wheelchair, which we check at the gate, and then they have the airplane chair they could. different Washington chair, they call it different things, where two people, Sasha: Animal lecture, sir. Barry: two yeah, two people supposedly are supposed to put me into the chair, strap me in, take me back to the right seat and drop me in. But I'll fast forward my favorite part of the so you you gotta imagine when you're a quadriplegic and you're put in that seat, you're there. Like you're not going anywhere until someone else takes you off the plane at the other end. And they always come by the flight attendants and they give us a speech. Okay, in case of an emergency, what we're going to do is so I always stop them and say, So what you want to tell me is put my lake my head between my legs and kiss my ass goodbye because nobody Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. John McAleavey: Yeah. Barry: is going to be getting me off and on the plane in John McAleavey: Yeah. Sasha: Yeah. Barry: any way properly. You're going to drag me out somehow. It's not Sasha: What? John McAleavey: Yeah. Barry: going to happen. So save the breath. Let's move on. And John McAleavey: Yeah. Sasha: Yeah. Barry: I I just want to jump into that because that's always the best part. But I just what I wanted Sasha: Yeah. Barry: to get at was the real issue for someone like myself, and Trevor could speak to this, is that When you're above our level of injury and and frankly paralysis and you're dependent on people, we're the first ones on the plane and the last ones off the plane for those reasons. And I can tell you, I'm just gonna talk at excuse the expression, guys, at thirty thousand feet here, that John McAleavey: No, they don't dunch. Barry: that we were making progress leading up to COVID and then the bottom fell out. And it's like we're starting all over again when it comes Sasha: Sure. Yep. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Barry: to flying disabled rights and the bill of rights and flying and and things like that. And John McAleavey: Yeah. Barry: maybe what I'll speak to is just getting the people that help us on and off the plane, that service in general. And that's where the part that's in such an evolving thing right now and the biggest problem we had in the past is that, and currently, and it depends on your airport, depends on the airline potentially. Because many airports, they use a third-party company that services all the airlines. That's not necessarily the truth everywhere, but that's something you're dealing with. And what happens is a lot of these people just aren't trained properly and ha and how to deal with this with an injury or are different levels of of paralysis because some people like a like a Sasha could hop on it onto a chair and have all this core balance and things like that, where someone like myself, I need the upper strap or all. fall down and do a face plan or fall out of the the chair potentially. But the biggest issue I've had over the years and is is communication is that sometimes these people are are new to our countries and they don't speak English. It's like I'm not going to Mexico. I'm going to Baltimore I'm going to Boston. You know and and unfortunately sometimes the people on the plane that are helping they mean well. But if if If we're directing our care and they don't understand what we're saying, then it's all bets are off. So you're Sasha: Mm. Barry: getting into that problem. Then you add untrained. They don't know what to do because it's John McAleavey: Yeah. Barry: the real the realization is they don't see many of us, so to speak. John McAleavey: Right. Barry: They might be used to a senior who needs a little assistance getting on and off out of a bit of a, you know, their wheel down, something like that. So this this is something that's gone on and it's been a struggle for me over the years. It's almost a crapshoot. What are we going to get? Or my favorite is listen, no secret, I'm 170 pounds, 165, 170 pounds. When they send the the 19 year old 90 pound young lady by herself to lift me up, it's like, you're kidding me. And and John McAleavey: Yeah, yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Yeah. Barry: and we do everything and Trevor, I know you've done this. You you say in advance, it's on your notes. You get to the you get to the you're checking in, you say it again, you get to the gate, you say it again, and then the one person comes. And looks at me like it's my problem. It's like, John McAleavey: Right. Yeah. Barry: no. And so I that was my rant. I want to get that out of the way first. Just Sasha: Yeah. Barry: say that's that's one of many things that we can go through tonight. But I'm just thinking the the people getting you on and off and that and what's involved with that is a big part of the deal for us with in with levels of paralysis or disability that we can't do it independently. So Sasha: Well, it's part of our society that is ableistic and what I say that is because what it is is the airline is outsourcing these companies and they are washing their hands of the responsibility. And they're saying and then they have a service tracking thing, saying, yeah, well we did this by a certain time, by a certain there's no f human element to it. It's all factual. And if you don't have your evidence by steward by by flight attendants or the or the pilots, you'll never win any contest. John McAleavey: Yeah. Sasha: Contest, excuse me, because it it the the it's up against you. Anyway, gosh, we you you sparked a big one very well Trevor, what about John McAleavey: Yeah. Well we're unicorns. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Barry: Take it away, boys. Yeah. Sasha: you what about yourself? what what what's your routine like? Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah, no, I mean I certainly I I've been relatively lucky when it comes to that. You are absolutely right, Barry, in terms of they always seem to send the smallest people to help transfer you. And you know, but I I'm always you know, when I when I get to the gate, I always make sure to check in with the person the at the ticket counter and and I've been relatively lucky that if they send two people, it is just the size. And then sometimes it's just like, look, no offense, but there's just no way. You know, I weigh 190 pounds. I'm bigger than you, Barry. So and no, I use a manual chair. And so, Sasha: huh. Tre Trevor, do you do you use a motorized chair or do you use a man? huh, okay. John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: you know, I mean that's and I usually travel with my my girlfriend. So that's like a huge help. Sasha: Hmm. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Because, John McAleavey: Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: you know, I I just I find, you know, when I travel, I just have to be on top of everything. And she's there to also just be on top of everything. And one of the things Sasha: Right, right. Can't let your guard down. Yeah. John McAleavey: Yeah. You have an advocate, yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: is even like having people properly lift you. Like where they are supposed to grasp like a lot of people just wanna reach under your shoulders and Sasha: Right. Don't grab under your shoulders or uhhuh, yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: lift you. And it's like, no, you know, I'm gonna John McAleavey: Mm. Sasha: A painful. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: lock my arms, you're gonna grab my wrists, you know in a Barry: That's it. That's the trick right there. Yep. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: You know, and I'm gonna turtle really tight or whatever, Sasha: Mm-hmm. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: like curve into myself and you're gonna lift me up and the other person's gonna get my knees, you know, and so and then my girlfriend's watching my bottom as I transfer, you know, just because you know, he can bang your skin. And John McAleavey: yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: then it's like, you know, as Barry said, we're we're kinda sitting there and if somebody's not supporting us, we could tip right out of the chair. So it's getting those belts. Sasha: Big time. I have. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: on. Yeah. Yeah, okay. So yeah, you've yeah. Sasha: I have and I'm a I'm a T five. I I like boom. Barry: Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: So you gotta get those belts on as soon as possible. And then just like tighten it as much as you can. Sasha: You know the th you know a lot of this those a lot of those aisle chairs now, I took pictures of it. They don't even have any side arms anymore. Like, wow, what is that? Like they they Barry: Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah, no. Well in what Sasha: they they give you the Hannibal Lecter, you know, stuff like this, but but Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah, yeah. Sasha: then your arms are like, I don't know. I don't understand what is going on here and why they're definitely not asking people for these decisions, people with experience. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Well and then the aisles have gotten they've gotten more narrow too. So as you transition from first class into the business or not business, I guess economy plus or whatever, there's Sasha: Up economy plus. Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: this weird like thing because they're going from Sasha: Over sure. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: two seats on each side to Sasha: Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: now three two or some configuration Sasha: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: like that and that throws off the aisle. And so the poor guys are trying to jam the chair around Sasha: Mm. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: this little corner. So it really yeah. John McAleavey: Jeez. I have a I Sasha: Yeah. John McAleavey: have a really stupid question and and pardon me, but when you guys are brought onto the plane, do you then, when they bring you on, do you then sit in a regular airline seat or are you in your wheelchair seat? Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Barry: Yep. No, no. That's actually the good point though. Delta Delta is actually Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Sasha: regular airline sea and I and I and I do bring along and I do bring along my Roho if it's a long trip. So I s I s Barry: so do I. Yeah. But Delta is Delta's piloting right now the idea of d bringing your chair right on the plane and sitting. But Sasha: Yeah. Barry: of course you know where that is. It's up front. They don't like that. they don't like that. That that's that's gonna cost. John McAleavey: Yeah. Well in the front, okay. No, no, they want you buried in the back. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah, you're teaching prime real Sasha: Rory Rory Cooper's behind all that. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: estate. Yeah. Barry: Yeah. John McAleavey: So you're sitting in a regular chair. I could see why then you would have to to get really strapped in. And then you have Trevor Dyson-Hudson: yeah. John McAleavey: to be careful when they put you in there that they don't like get your leg caught underneath. I mean, that that could be Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Well, usually you transfer. Yeah. I mean I transfer and then like get my legs situated and things. John McAleavey: Okay. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: You know, the armrests lift up usually. John McAleavey: Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: if you're in bulkhead or like first class or some of these the or small commuters, some planes the armrests don't lift up. So it's they've John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: gotta actually lift you up. over and that's a really awkward lift. I mean, you know, I I feel for the guys doing this 'cause you know, a lot of most of them are escorting, you know, elderly women and things like that. And then you John McAleavey: Right. Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: get somebody like me or Barry and it's just like we're dead weight. John McAleavey: And then how is it, guys, when when everybody on on the plane, I I would assume all eyes are now on you and this is something that they don't see all the time and you know, unbeknownst to you, you become a spectacle. And I mean, how how how does that is it something that that you're just gotten used to now and you don't even think about it? Sasha: Course. Yeah. Barry: Well something the the one thing is they don't know necessarily because you're the first on and the last off. And so and it's Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Yeah. Sasha: Yeah, your first song last awesome big Yeah. Barry: it's funny the way some of the flight attendants, the way they treat you sometimes like they they they know they know and they're great. But if they don't know, they're looking at you like, why won't you pass that over? Because I can't grab it, you know, and and John McAleavey: Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Sasha: Well John, because I'm able Barry: like Trevor says Sasha: to I use if they have it, they I use the onboard aisle chairs to go to the bathroom, but listen to this routine. So they come by. First of all, half of them don't even know that they have it on board or ever seen one. And then you have to interrupt them between like a certain strategic time where there's not drinks and there's not whatnot. They bring out a s aisle a foldable aisle chair and like it's literally like something you would take a camping site, you know? And and they bring it down, you transfer into it. There's a little place for your feet to go. They they you get strapped in. They then go backwards or forwards, depending on where the bathroom is. And this is for women and men, by the way. Then you get to the front. You know how hard they are already to get in sideways. They kind of turn you around, skit you in just so that you can get close enough to that you can put a curtain behind you because you can't close the door. They put a curtain behind you and you do your business if you can. and Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Wow. Sasha: now, if which means that. You know, I can catheterize myself into a cup and then dump it or whatnot. What do women do? Like it's sometimes that's not even an option. And to John McAleavey: Yeah. Sasha: reach the sinks is also very difficult in those because you're you're bound by the limit of your footrist that go into the play. Anyway, it's kinda like well, we did it for you guys. I don't know how many people use it. I do, but I mean I don't know John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: I don't thankfully I haven't. And one of the tricks Sasha: how many other people use it. Right. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: I learned early on was to travel with an empty ginger ale bottle. So that, you know, you have this yellow liquid, you know, that yeah, so that you can fill it up if you need Sasha: Yeah, yeah, that's right. And a and a blanket to throw over yourself. A blanket to throw over yourself because I've had to very humbly ask many, many times just look, explain what's happening and what I'm gonna do so that they don't freak out. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Sure. Sasha: and and I've had flight attendants actually stop me mid thing mid act, say, You can't do this, sir, and make a big fuss about it. I'm like, I'm I don't even argue anymore. I'm like just go ahead and be an ass. Like John McAleavey: Hmm, Sasha: What are you gonna do? Stop me? You know But you know go ahead. John McAleavey: yeah, yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah, what do you have security? You know, throw you off the plane. You know. John McAleavey: Sure. Yeah. We have a c we have a couple of bullet points that Sasha was able to put together. I guess what I could do maybe is read down a few of them and you could each sort of chime in on it. How about caregiver requirements? do you do you make those obviously you have to make those plans in advance as to who's gonna be traveling with you or or how do you guys each kind of go about Sasha: Double the purchase, right? John McAleavey: that? Sasha: You gotta purchase everything too. I mean, it's anyway. So go ahead, guys. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. It's another ticket. Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean Yeah. Barry: Well in Canada Canada the major airlines offer the caregiver flies for free. It's a it's a two it's a two for one. that would be West Trevor Dyson-Hudson: No way. Barry: Jet and Air Canada, the main ones. charters Sasha: Uh-huh. Barry: no, they don't like the charter companies. But the and Sasha: Huh. Barry: in international, continental international, so if I'm gonna fly into the US, my caregiver flies for half the price of a ticket. John McAleavey: Well that's nice. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: That is amazing. Barry: Yeah, it's not bad. Sasha: Wow. Barry: That's pretty good. So that that makes it a little bit easier all around, of course. And 'cause I you know, I've never flown by myself since my injury. And no, we don't have ADA. So I mean I but I hear ya. I know. I Sasha: Yeah, but you don't have ADA. Which is kind of kooky. I'm saying it but I say it facetiously, Barry, because we got it John McAleavey: Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Wow though. That's quite an accommodation. I have to check with the airlines. Barry: know. I know. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: So does the US honor that then? I mean so I Sasha: No. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: well I guess so when you Barry: It's just the Canadian flyers like what w where Sasha: you mean honors? yeah, just like Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Barry: WestJet in Air Canada would offer that, basically. There's nobody else. And I I don't Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Okay. Well. Barry: even think the other major flyer up here now is called Porter Airlines and they don't offer that. John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah, that's quite an accommodation. Yeah, no, I used to fly alone and then I just was like, What am I doing? 'Cause if something goes wrong, I am like so at the mercy of people. John McAleavey: Yeah. Barry: Yeah. Sasha: Right. Right. And I've been and I've been and I've had John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Sasha: some horror stories over the year because I do take those chances and I have had to pay the price. you know, being either stuck in a layover or I can remember one trip coming back from Vancouver and getting laid over and didn't make it in time. We had to sleep overnight in Dallas, but they'd had no place for us to sleep, like or or stay, and they wouldn't give us any hotel vouchers. So I ended up sleeping on a bench in a McDonald's. And not just me, John McAleavey: good grief. Sasha: it was like there were a couple other passengers who are on the same place. John McAleavey: Hey, we should have McDonald sponsor us because Sasha's sleeping on the bench and Trevor's using Sasha: Yeah. John McAleavey: the coolers when it's hot. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: That's right. That's right. We Sasha: And you know what about McD's is always when Trevor Dyson-Hudson: endorse them. Highly recommend them. Sasha: I lived overseas, I always look McD arches because I knew they were accessible bathrooms. John McAleavey: Yeah. Yeah. Guys, Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. John McAleavey: how about another thing I just thought of and I don't see it on on the sheet here, but what do you do as far as do you pack like all of your meds and and some extra catheters and things like that with you to bring on the plane? Because in case your luggage winds up in spoke can and yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Absolutely. Absolutely. Barry: Yep. Sasha: Sure. Barry: Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: You really Barry: The main the main you're absolutely right. I I wish I could pack more, but whatever I can get on knapsack that can make it as an urgent Sasha: I think he Barry: thing. But the Uri casts and those kind of urinary stuff. Yeah. Sasha: Cass, Australia bags, the whole nine yards, Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. And technically Sasha: you know, yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: any of that equipment should be covered. Right. I mean they may put it in the they may gate check or check it and put it down in the hold. But it's not considered Barry: Well the one Trevor Dyson-Hudson: extra luggage. It should be those are medical Sasha: But I always worry about stuff getting separated, so if I check anything on, I gotta have a backup with me in my backdriver. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Absolutely, yeah. Barry: I I'm I am knocking on wood right now. It hasn't happened to me once years ago. I was flying with my dad and the Sasha: huh. Barry: flight came in later, but me so we had to stay in a hotel. We got to we got to where we had to get to, but I my other my suitcase didn't make it. So and I need I use a sheepskin for my skin and and of course we rigged something up and it was a it was a long night. John McAleavey: Yeah. Barry: equipment though, let's talk about bags and stuff. I John McAleavey: Yeah. Barry: now again the carriers up here. Our medical equipment in a bag is free. So Sasha: Mm-hmm. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Extreme here, exactly. Barry: I carry a I have a I have a travel commode I use for the shower and Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Right. Barry: bowel and all that. And it's basically a free suitcase. And Sasha: Cool. Barry: they've even expanded it. Now I I can't tell you what's happened in the last couple of years. It's kind of crazy. I should be here whining and complaining, but I can't. Sasha: All right. Barry: they've actually for a lot of I've talked to some Paris Sports guys, they'll cover two pieces of equipment. one medical and one sport, like the rugby John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Barry: wheelchair or something like that, if they're bringing that along. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: wow, that's nice. Barry: Yeah, they that's really good. And that's just recent. That just happened. Well I I can tell Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Yep. Barry: you what happened. I can tell you what happened up here. it so we came out of COVID and it was like going back 20 years. they because all the trained staff we talked about, they were all let go. So we're starting from scratch and and the people that Didn't know what they were doing. And I'll get to the the better story at the end. But what happened up here was, and this happens in Trevor, you can speak to it in Sauchi yourself, especially after COVID with the flights and what was going on. There's stories of people being left on the plane for like 45 minutes an hour, and until they got their act together and finding the people to take us off the plane. And then they're mad at us, like we're delaying the whole friggin' system. No, we're not. You are. And that's we get because one time I what happened was, sorry guys, I got I got too stories, but I'll just shut up in a second. Sasha: Go ahead. John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Barry: But what happened to me once was they bring your chair up to the up to the just outside the door of the of the airplane. They bring you out and they put you in your chair and off you go. They checked my chair for some reason. And then we're flying back, Sasha, you were there. Min Minneapolis. I get to Toronto and well it goes through customs. And the chair goes through customs. I said, okay, where's my chair? Well, John McAleavey: So Barry: it went through customs. So I said, bring it back. Well, that takes a while. I said, bring it back. Because I'm not gonna sit in it. I can't sit on an aisle chair for maybe an hour or two with my skin. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Yeah. Sasha: Right. Barry: I wouldn't let them do John McAleavey: Mm. Barry: it. And then, well, there's another flight going up in this plane. I parked my ass in front of the door, get my chair. John McAleavey: Yeah. Barry: So as long as I sat there, that flight had to wait. That chair Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Barry: got there a lot quicker because I Sasha: Yeah. Barry: I took that position. I I had to do that because. Sasha: Sure. Barry: I'm not risking my ass. But what happened up here Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Sasha: Very the same thing except John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Sasha: great. John McAleavey: Literally and figuratively. Barry: But I'll I'll finish this story and then I will be quiet. But what happened about a year and a half ago, I think, here we go. Good old iPhones. And it's gentlemen with cerebral palsy. He was left on the plane. It was like an hour. He said, enough. And it was just it was like the ADA walking crawling up the Capitol Hill steps all over again. He crawled his way down the aisle, you John McAleavey: Peace. Barry: know, and you can imagine someone with CP crawling on their Sasha: Yeah. Barry: belly Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Barry: and knees and and someone filmed the whole thing and said, Thank you, Air Canada. And John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Barry: it all changed after that. John McAleavey: Of course. Barry: So that just that's that's that moment. Go ahead guys. I hear something like that. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. But it takes. Yeah. John McAleavey: Yeah, he probably flies free now, right? They're gonna give him anything he wants. Barry: They they they it's really different now. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: There was a guy who was a para who is he was T ten, so lower than you, Sasha, who I knew back here at Kessler. And we were on the same flight and they were like, your your chair's outside the door, but we're waiting for the aisle chair. And he's like, I'm not waiting. He popped out of the chair, bumped his butt. She's like, You can't do that. You can't no. John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: You can't do that. He's like, watch me John McAleavey: Watch me. Sasha: Yeah. I've I've done that I've done that very Trevor Dyson-Hudson: and got in his chair and and left. Sasha: it's funny you say that, Trevor, 'cause I've done that very exact same thing. I actually was at a flight late for a connecting flight in Philadelphia and And it was raining and there were two elderly people that were ahead of me that were we we were still waiting for the ramp, much less and so I got out of my chair, I had my briefcase with me, I start pushing down the aisle the entire time the flight to the stop and I'm like, just move here, stop it. I get to the edge and it's pouring rain and I could see my chair at the bottom of the steps. I just said, Would somebody grab my leg and help me go down this steps? John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Sasha: I went boom, Barry: Wow. Sasha: boom, boom, down to the bottom. And these are before iPhones, before pictures and everything, you know, Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah, yeah. Sasha: just happening. And guess what? I I made my connecting flight, Damon. Anyway. John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. That Barry: the boy. boy. John McAleavey: leads me into my next question. I was gonna ask you guys about if you have connecting flights. What how how does that work? And and do you have to do you have to sort of have that planned out in advance? Like you need mm-hmm. Sasha: Basically it's it's watch prints repeat. Basically Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, yeah, I need at least an hour. I always make a point of at least an hour. Yeah. Sasha: it's the same process. Yeah, or at least if you have Yeah. I Barry: I d I don't even trust that. to me it's gotta be an hour and a half, two hours, yeah. Sasha: I if John, if there's not more than an hour layover, I don't book a flight. yeah, because it's just it's it's not worth the hassle and the stress of not knowing. and it and when I do make Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. 'Cause yeah. Yeah, you you're the last on and then you have to be the first Barry: Yeah, that's me. Sasha: trips and Barry, I'm sure you probably did this when you made that last trip to Maryland, you have to have a backup of those flights that you have. to make sure that you don't get stranded somewhere. So not just and the or the buses or the t or whatever is transporting on ground. Ground transportation. Right. Barry: ground transportation. No, we that's a whole other chapter, guys. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah, no, thankfully that's why I fly certain airports because I you know, I I I refuse to Sasha: Are quick. Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: fly into Newark or Philly. No. I mean, I'm just trying to stick to places that either have subways or underground Sasha: Well, okay. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: you know, conveyor belts, you know, the the walkways, you know, that you can do. So, you know, and I use a smart drive. Sasha: Uh-huh. But I think the I think I think the other thing I'd like to just bring up here, and I this could open up a bitch fest, but just basically and and I've got lots of stories of other people I could tell that are worse, just of the indignity that that that we that we're left with. You know, that the the this the sense of abandonment and the sense of like, does does anybody even know I'm here? Like I'm scared as shit as it is. I can't go to I can't go to the bathroom. I can't move around. I can't do anything. You know, and by the way, I got a flight in twenty minutes. There and and I'm John McAleavey: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: And Sasha: not suggesting that I'm any worse off than you all, but it's collectively, it doesn't need to be that way. Especially because John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Barry: Well y you say in the Sasha: should the first phone call be, hey, we're about to land, you all ready to pick up the guys in a wheelchair? We don't do that. There's like there's like we didn't know, you know. Barry: Right. But back to indignity. Johnny, Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Yeah. Barry: one of the things that we're we're witnessing, and again, I think this is I've seen more of it post COVID, is John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Barry: because we're waiting, they don't want that plane waiting too long, so the cleaning staff comes on. So you're Sasha: yeah. John McAleavey: god. Barry: literally got a core of cleaning staff cleaning all around you as you're waiting for your your help to get off the plane. Sasha: And suggesting to you that hey, you know the flight's you know, the flight you gotta get off. You know, like I I can't. And then just start vacuuming around you. John McAleavey: Yeah. Yeah. And you're the potted plant just sitting there, right? As they're they're cleaning around you. Yeah. Sasha: Could you please lift your leg? Well if I could lift my leg I would. No Barry: Yeah. John McAleavey: Yeah. You know what it Barry: You know, we are talking. Sorry, we were talking prior to this getting ready for this this podcast, and I was thinking of something that happened to me. I want to share this with you in Montreal. I went over there and I I do this every time. I said, Okay, just I'm here, I'm already checked in. I'm I'm just saying, I'm wheelchair guy, I'm here. So and I'm just sitting right here, not far away. Cause they because we're what you call a pre-board, is that as opposed to boarding, we're a pre-board. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Right. Sasha: right. Barry: Us, you know, the the elderly, sometimes kids, small infants and stuff, that's fine. And they said, Okay, we'll let you know when we're ready to board. Okay, I'm right here, I'm right here. And all of a sudden they look over it, they're boarding the plane. And I go, What are you doing? I John McAleavey: Yeah. Barry: forgot about you. They stop boarding the plane John McAleavey: Yeah. Barry: and then they make the announcement both in French and English, by the way. Sorry John McAleavey: Yeah. Sasha: huh. Barry: for the delay. We have to board the disabled person first before we can let anybody else on the plane. John McAleavey: yeah. Of course. Yeah. Barry: And they're all like, Okay. yeah, that was nice. Thanks a lot, buddy. Teed that one Sasha: We become the pariah Barry: up real good. Yep. Sasha: we become the pariah. John McAleavey: Mm. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah, no, that's one of the things that I I become you you talk about your sense of Sasha: huh. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Like I'm not gonna get off this plane until my wheelchair's there, right? Because you lose all the power. I Sasha: Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: I won't get on the I mean, I won't let people get by me to get on the plane until John McAleavey: Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: I get on the plane. 'Cause if there are able bodied people boarding ahead of you, it John McAleavey: Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: just becomes you know, and I because they've got to bring you in an aisle chair and then the poor guys who bring they gotta get it out and there Sasha: Then they gotta take it back out. And they gotta take it back out. Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: it's like going against the current. of people coming on board. John McAleavey: Yep. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: And it's just like, and so the well, we have to start boarding people. It's like, you are going to regret it. If you start John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: boarding people around me, you are going to regret it. Just wait five more minutes. It's just. Sasha: Well, I've been in it. I've been all well, first of all, so the other thing, John, is that there's always the transfer process that goes on in that little area on the little jetway. And that's Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Sasha: where all the catastrophes happen because it because it's a area, it's John McAleavey: Yeah. That's where the magic happens. Sasha: it's always cold, it either either very hot or very cold, and it's a very small environment. And really what mostly they're doing is sitting back and waiting for you to tell them what to do. Or Just the opposite. They're doing stuff that you know is not right. And you can't stop them without kind of sounding loud because they're screwing it up. And yet you come across as again, maybe it's self-conception, but you come across as being bombastic instead of just being, John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Sasha: you know, an alarmist because you understand how fragile this is. and then the other Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah, no, I mean I've been pretty lucky. Sasha: thing is that sometimes when they screw up with the announcements, you're sitting there transferring and stuff when you've got about a hundred people waiting. Just looking at you and staring at Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Sasha: you again, it's not that you want to draw attention, you're forcing it upon me. You know. John McAleavey: Right. Yeah. W would you guys say and in your experience that starting with the folks at the gate when you're when you're g getting up to the before you board the plane and then with stewardesses and stuff like that, would you think for the most part, not that they're would they be sympathetic, but but they're understanding and and they're helpful with you, or do you kind of get that side eye look like, God, we gotta deal with one of these? 'cause it's you know It's it's a we're a little much. We're a little more than we're not as I like to tell my friends, I'm not like your average bear. I it it's Sasha: think in general in general John they're they're good hearted folks. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah, no. John McAleavey: Yeah. Sasha: it's just that there's a chain of events that happen to get you from your chair onto the plane and back into your chair and then back into life. And all those have breaks and kinks everywhere. And that's John McAleavey: Right. Sasha: the problem is that it's not seamless and there's not one person you can turn to to say, what went wrong? You have to go through, like I was saying explaining, I have letters and letters of litigation about this is what you did, here's my documentation. And their and their retort is typically here's why it's not our fault. And in meanwhile, they give you bonus points or they give you swag or something like that to kind of appease you. But it doesn't s it still to this day doesn't address the fundamental problem of w the John McAleavey: Exactly. Yeah. Sasha: airline and then here's the other thing. Okay, so the airlines are really not responsible for once you're on them because well you got the bathroom but we got a aisle chair if you can get in there. But really that's it. But once you're on the ground, it's out of their hands. Like John McAleavey: Right. Sasha: it's got the letterhead on it, like Delta or whatever, but it's some other company that they've that they've hired out to do this. And typically John McAleavey: So do we think that this is completely just a lack of training that they're they're not they haven't trained? Is this something that we as a community can can you know you know, I don't know, make make our voices heard and hey, listen, we should Trevor Dyson-Hudson: I mean I think there there is a degree of awareness and making I mean it's tough when you're a relatively small population, so it's like how often you know, they could John McAleavey: Exactly. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: get the training and then it could be month or two before they see somebody, you know, and John McAleavey: Right. Exactly. Sasha: There was a soup against United Airlines last year, if I'm not mistaken, for quite a substanti like I'm talking hundreds of millions maybe, for somebody. So I think the flag is out there and they do understand them what the repercussions are. The problem is is again enforcement. It's like getting wheelchair parts fixed when you claim that they broke it. Well, first of all, prove that it wasn't broken before what? Like the first thing it comes out is prove it wasn't broken before we did that. Like, holy what? Like John McAleavey: Yeah. Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Sasha: Why would I have a broken chair and go on an airplane? You know? But that's it's John McAleavey: Yeah. Sasha: the burden of the proof and that's you it's called attrition. Hopefully you just, hey, you what, those insurance will pay for it, it'll be fine. Versus admitting John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Sasha: that you did fault, which is not in their repertoire. And again, if you try to file a claim with them saying that something has been done wrong, my God, all of a sudden you get their attention and you get all kinds of people saying, No, no, no, no. And even if you may be in the right, you're gonna get no, no, no. And I just am very tenacious. I just keep going back and I'll ask for the superior. Finally you get to somebody who understands, but you know what? The problem was four months ago. Like nobody's being nobody's gonna be reprimanded for that or taught. You're just gonna put a little check mark by mine saying we appease the customer. John McAleavey: Yeah. Sasha: At least that's my own. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Thankfully Barry: I wanna Trevor Dyson-Hudson: I I had a good experience with that. I mean the airline broke my wheelchair and you know I had to use well Sasha: okay. What happened? What happened? What do they Trevor Dyson-Hudson: I you know, it was the the camber tube, the axle got broken from the camber tube. So they were John McAleavey: Cheese. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: sitting there, I'm in my in the in the aisle Sasha: You couldn't even use you couldn't even use it. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: chair. And they're like, is your chair supposed to be like this? And they're like, I have a rigid chair. And they have the wheel off of John McAleavey: Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: it. And it's like, but there's parts of the camber tube attached to it. So it's like, my God. my God. Yeah. John McAleavey: no. Sasha: man. That's a lump in your throat feeling, man. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: And especially because I didn't have a backup where I was. You know, so John McAleavey: Yes. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: thankfully I was at least arriving home in upstate New York. So I wasn't in the middle. Barry: Coming ho coming home. Yeah, that's good. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: But they they had to lift me, power lift me into one of those airport chairs and then John McAleavey: Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: push me, you know, that don't have armrests that lift up and you know, or like big tanks and they push me through and I'm like a sack of potatoes because it's like no support. It's all a sling. Yeah. Sasha: Right. You're not giving any support in your trunk to cr yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: So they wheel me out to the car and then they have to power lift me into the car. John McAleavey: Right. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: then I have to drive from Syracuse to my apartment down here in the Bronx 'cause I didn't have a a backup chair in upstate New York. So John McAleavey: good grief. Sasha: So when you say the way had the power lift, do you mean in a sling? Like a foil lift? Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Well, no, no, they had to like I it wasn't like I could easily transfer out of the wheelchair Sasha: Right. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: because it it has those sides that don't lift up. It's for people Sasha: Right, right, right, right, right, right. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: who kind of walk, shuffle, and then sit into a seat. It d Sasha: Yeah. Sure, sure. John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: they don't lift up so that you can pull up right next to your car. Transfer. Sasha: Did they have foot rest? Did they have foot rest? Trevor Dyson-Hudson: What's that? Sasha: Did it have foot rest? Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah, swing away the big swing away footrests that are like sticking straight out at like, you know, I don't know, forty five John McAleavey: Mm. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: degrees. But but that but but well actually before I that that Sasha: That happened to me w what I got Go ahead. Go ahead, buddy. Cool. Barry: I wanna I wanna go back on go ahead. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: airline they called me that next Monday, you know, took my report and you know, I told them You know, they were gonna send a representative to one like an occupational therapist to check out my chair and everything and I'm like, look, I I work at a rehab hospital and they're like, that's fine. Just tell us what you need. And and they were fantastic. I mean, I I really have to hand it to them that how John McAleavey: That's great. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: quickly they processed my claim. Now that was this one airline. There I Sasha: huh. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: suspect there that's not true for all airlines. John McAleavey: No. Barry: Yeah, drasha brought up good point too that it's it's the airline and andor the airport because different cities, they use different Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Barry: third parties, different airlines. So maybe briefly I I had the same problem. I had a chair break. basically I got in my chair and I knew right away it's happened before it was that my frame was bent. Like I was veering, I was going right. Like I You if you push me, I'm like right into the corner. Wasn't my wheels, wasn't John McAleavey: Yeah. Barry: anything else. My chair spent. And so I went wheeled right over to, you know, you go. There is a the airlines have a a place you go to for damage bags, damage this, whatever. Sasha: Right. Barry: It was quick. they took all the information out. I got a phone call that night and they have a service. Now this is okay, guys. I can't believe we got McDonald's. Now I'm gonna plug air Canada. Let's go with that. So they John McAleavey: Yeah. Barry: they have one company based out of Winnipeg. Manitoba and Canada and called ScooterRound. They service all the mobility devices for the airline damages throughout the country. And they're plugged into every single vendor that I even know in the greater Toronto area. They they John McAleavey: Mm. Barry: know them by name. you're talking to Nelly at Scooter Round? I was Sasha: huh. Barry: like, Yeah, I was actually. But you you get to a vendor, they give a quote, they get it back, and that's just the wait to get the parts and all that stuff. But I got a whole new frame out of the thing. And it was we weird. I mean, I should have, because You see the way they throw these things around. Like it's nuts. It's nuts. And God help you if you have a power chair. Because the stories, the stories you hear. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing that would terrify me John McAleavey: Of course. Mm-hmm. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: is the complexity. The more I thank God that I use a manual chair. Because it's the complexity I mean I I pray every time I get on the plane and I'm so thankful Sasha: Mm-hmm. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: when I get off and I see my wheelchair there. That is and that I can push it and it's working okay. Sasha: Let me tell you guys a quick horror story before we get on to some better better news. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: But somebody John McAleavey: Exactly. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: with a power Sasha: Is that what Trevor Dyson-Hudson: chair. Yeah, I mean you Sasha, you shared the the video from the young women Sasha: Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: who are talking about and just showing these people who bent armrests and bent arm could the controllers and just I mean, it's my gosh, just makes your s John McAleavey: It's terrible. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: yeah, you pit in your stomach because it's John McAleavey: Yeah. Sasha: So so John, I don't know if I Trevor Dyson-Hudson: you're so Sasha: shared this with you or Bar Barry knows about this or Trevor. I went to John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Sasha: sabbatical open in Vancouver and flew out of Texas and went there and landed and everybody was getting off just like the old standard operating procedure, right? And all of a sudden I get somebody come back and tell me, your wheelchair was left in the United States. So John McAleavey: God. Sasha: and it was a blizzard, if you can believe it, in Vancouver, first one in like decades, they'll get those. And the place was Barry: They don't get those. John McAleavey: dear God. Sasha: And all they could find, all they could put me in was share I kidding you, I fail you when you say they put me in this wide humpty dumpty ass chair. I had no like stability whatsoever. And the Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Sasha: feet and the foot rests were like out like this. So like I was red eagle. And Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Yeah. John McAleavey: Yeah. Sasha: and they're going like and I said, Do you need anything? I said, Yeah, I gotta go to the bathroom at least. Well, John McAleavey: Yeah, my dignity. Sasha: but the chair couldn't even fit to the bathroom stall. But I'm like I would just say it's just Barry: jeez. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: It's like a twenty inch scare. Sasha: comedy this is you know comedy c anyway. John McAleavey: You were in the stirrups going in for Eurodynamics, you felt like, Barry: Yeah. John McAleavey: right? Sasha: And then and then so they finally got to they said, Okay, you w just get to your hotel and we'll arrange it the next day your when the flight comes in we'll get it, but you got it this is SOL. Everywhere I went with this chair though, including the hotel, I I couldn't get around with this thing. Anyway, and so that night I worked Trevor Dyson-Hudson: I don't know how you push that. Sasha: and it was and by the way, it was blizzard, it was stowing and the cabs were nowhere to be found for for wheelchair. They got these special ones, they're actually pretty decent under normal circumstances, but it was like 1 a.m. when I got there and it was no taxis anywhere, and it and I was f literally shivering. I felt like an indigen. And so and Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Wow. John McAleavey: gosh. Sasha: then again, this is the pr perils of what you were talking about. That's why I don't like to travel alone anymore. John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Sasha: Like even if you're with somebody, Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah, you really need that. Sasha: going through that is helpful, you know, in a way. But when you're by John McAleavey: Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. No Sasha: yourself, you're kind of like all of a sudden you not you kind of fear death a little bit, you know. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Well John McAleavey: Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: and you Sasha: Huh. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: know, one of the things that happens and you talk about getting in late or whatever, Sasha, you know, you're and being the last one off of the flight, when you go down to baggage claim, a lot of times your bags, I mean, they're already been taken off and and taken Sasha: They've already been taken. That's all right. That's right. Yep. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: to the office. And if you're traveling and you're arriving late Sasha: Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: That office is closed. So having John McAleavey: Of course. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: somebody like my poor girlfriend, I'll send her. I mean, she'll go, you know, excuse me, you know, can you get somebody to our bags are right there, right? John McAleavey: Yeah. Sasha: Mm-hmm. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: We can see through the glass wall. But, you John McAleavey: god. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: know, and you know, we we had this surreal experience where we got off the plane in Ithaca, really small airport. And there was like nobody. And we're like walking around the airport, walking behind the ticking counters, going into the offices. Hello. You know, we John McAleavey: Jeez. Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: can see our bags behind a locked door through the glass. You know, but but we're yelling, Sasha: Kind of like the shining. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: you know, we're yelling for people, you know, and then finally John McAleavey: Of course. Mm-hmm. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: somebody like, what are you doing here? Our bags are still here, you know. John McAleavey: Exactly. you need something. Sasha: Yeah. John McAleavey: gosh. Well here we are. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: But yeah, you need that able bodied person to just, you know, sometimes, you know, go walking around or or John McAleavey: Yes. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: make sure your your chair is there or that they're fold folding it properly. I mean all John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well Sasha: Barry, you were Trevor Dyson-Hudson: those things. Sasha: talking about last week. I remember you talking to us about the g some decent things that are happening with up the up up there in the Great White North with the airline. John McAleavey: Yeah, that'll segue into our key takeaways towards the end. We've we've gone forty-one minutes with what's horrible and some horror stories, but now, yeah, let's sli and I'm sure we could probably go another 40 minutes, but maybe let's Barry: We ain't done. I I think John McAleavey: put tie a knot on it with some maybe some good things on the horizon and some key takeaways. Sasha: Yeah. Barry: The key thing, I think, what I found in, and I I'll use the example of and if you asked me this three years ago, I would never say this, but Air Canada up here has become a shining light, and as all my friends across the country, because it you know, it is the major airline in this country, with a secondary airline, major airline being WestJet. And and Air Canada has by far overtaken when it comes to service for disabled people. And it starts with, but this goes back to I think training and information, but it really began with advocacy and it always continues with advocacy. Because if you don't speak for yourself, it can be the best training in the world, the best system in the world. But there are breakdowns in human people. The people just don't see us as much. And there's chances are they might not have. But what they've done is I can tell you what happened. They went to go, they bought into the third party system of. people getting people on and off the plane servicing and they abandoned it right away because it was a disaster. Because this is coming right out of COVID and they were terrible. They weren't trained. They didn't know what they're doing. They watched the video, they say it was just really Sasha: Right. Barry: bad. So what they they took because they listen, this is a business decision too. For every minute they're late with us, that plane is delayed. And as you know, I don't know if you knew about it, but there's a rating system that came out, especially after COVID. That that the the the airports were graded. Pearson would in Toronto was one of the worst. Air Canada, because it's the major hub, one of the worst for delays and not being on time. So and we're part of that. Like they had somebody I I used to explain to somebody, hey, Sasha: Mm. Barry: you every minute you leave me on this plane, I'm delaying your flight. Like, what are you thinking? Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Barry: Get to get Sasha: Right. Barry: your act together. So, anyways, they're they're people that lift you on and off are super trained. Super trained. In fact, I'd say they're almost baggage people. These guys are big and strong and and the women, the women are great. They treat you with dignity. They're very polite. They do everything right. Is anything okay? But they know what they're doing. Like the one thing that we've seen over the years is the guy doesn't know how to put the strap on because they've never used it before. But Sasha: Mm-hmm. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Barry: these guys and gals know exactly what they're doing. That's number one. Number two, there's a medical desk when I register with it about my flight. So they know everything about me. and it's in my notes. When I check Sasha: Okay. Barry: in, it's in my notes. When we're at the gate, it's in my notes. It's like a stream of consciousness that goes right through on information about me and what I need. Yeah. Sasha: Is it digital, Gary? Is it digital so that they okay. Barry: It's right in the notes. They they they they the as soon as my flight comes up, my boarding pass. it's yeah, with my with my with my confirmation. So there's inform they know Sasha: so it's associated with your ticket or whatever you got. Right. Okay. John McAleavey: So they know you're coming. That's great. They have a heads up. Barry: I'm coming, they know about my what my extra bag, they know about my chair, they know the weight of my chair, they know it all. And and and they they're John McAleavey: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sasha: My God, I'm still at the gate where they're still filling stuff out by the hand. Barry: And and so they're really good that way. Sasha: What's the width of your chair? Wait the w John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Barry: And the one thing I'll I'll give you an example of we just talked about something here. I was recently in coming back from a flight. I was in Washington, coming back in Toronto from Oregon. And there was and that's a very common track between Toronto and Washington. And so the one Air Canada flight was was delayed in front of us. And it was delayed in such a point was like it was 45 minutes before our flight takes off. I go, this is not good. And we're the last flight. And so John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Barry: I went over to the desk when I was going over there to say, what's what's happening or whatever. Right away they announced they're canceling my flight. I'm Sasha: Mm. Barry: like, God. And so they and then if you've been to Reagan, it's small. And in our terminal, like literally we you go back out of security and around the corner and like you're there. And you're right at the John McAleavey: Yeah. Barry: air can. And I'm like, I go there and I was about to raise all hell because they're trying to tell me, we'll give you a voucher for a hotel. Well, I can't. I can't. I I need a hoyer lift. I none of this is gonna work. Sasha: Right. Right. Barry: And as I'm up getting my rage up and ready to go, the other person working the desk is, here's your boarding pass. We got you on the next the first this flight in front of you. the flight that was full. Yeah, sure. Okay. And so I I John McAleavey: thank God. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Aww, nice. Sasha: an angel. John McAleavey: Yeah. Barry: mean, they're on Sasha: Well Barry: it. And I I can't say enough about it. And I can if you asked me this three years ago, I'd be screaming about them. And but that's an example to me. It's it's information, information and training. But more important it's the way they they honestly the way they treat you. very different. And on top of that, you still gotta be an advocate. You have to advocate John McAleavey: Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Right. Barry: for yourself. Yeah. Sasha: Well, you gotta be your own advocate. That's right. I mean John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Sasha: that's that's the other thing is saying everything in life, it seems, since we were children, by the way, is no, right? The first thing you're always told is no. And Barry: Mm-hmm. Sasha: that's the wor it comes worse when it comes to ADA enforcement and rights, because I think there's an element of number one, denial, number one. Number two, a little bit of embarrassment. And then third is what do I do? And that's where we all seem to be advocates because we're telling them what to do. And it's ironic John McAleavey: Yeah. Sasha: that I have to be forty years of doing this to still teach them. Bury yourself. Why Barry: Yeah. Exhausting too. It's exhausting. Sasha: are we still exhaustingly teaching you guys this stuff when I thought I was doing that twenty five, thirty years ago? John McAleavey: Yeah. Well if I could retroactively make you each the Secretary of Transportation for one day, Barry: Yeah. John McAleavey: what would what would one key takeaway be, Sasha? What what what would you like to see instituted that would make your life easier and and for those of us also in the community, you think? And then we'll go around the horn. Sasha: Well, I am a professor, so I'm gonna go right to education. I think that the problem is is that we're not educating these staff people that are coming to take care of people with disabilities adequately enough. That comes with education. And education is not an easy thing to enforce 'cause, you know, a and and who who ultimately, if they're not enforcing, is gonna penalize them. And that's where I don't really know. Societal influence has to come into play at some point in time to make people realize and maybe even embarrass them a little bit, to how ridiculously d trivial excuse me, how how how things that we are doing seem trivial to them that are so important to us never get discussed. And I you know John McAleavey: Yeah. How about you, Secretary Dyson Hudson? What would you do? Trevor Dyson-Hudson: yeah. Well I think, you know, we talk about, you know, helping people navigate the system in the hospital and out into the community. I mean airlines having a navigator, so a point contact person. I mean it's almost like you get the white glove treatment, right? And so Sasha: Well John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: and then so they and you know, you can you have to be really proactive when you travel and you have to plan ahead. And you know, you can create elements of the white glove thing. If you you know they do some do offer like this curb side assistance. So there's a way and you you may not necessarily need it, but John McAleavey: Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: having that individual who helps you like there are there are airports personnel, they'll take you to the front of the line. They'll take you straight through security. They'll take you, you know, through all these things because they're the employee and they'll get you to the gate. And even if like you can push your own wheelchair, you know, having that person just do that for you and then, you know, on the flip side Sasha: Facilitator. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah, facilitator, absolutely. So yeah, I mean somebody, you know, or maybe a representative with the airline. you have a disability. Sasha: Mary Barry, going back to you what you were saying, it's a oun a previo ounce of prevention's worth a pound of cure, guys. Like why like like why how come they don't do how Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah, absolutely. Just to make sure people have a good experience. John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sasha: come they don't think this way? It's just kinda and John McAleavey: Yeah. Sasha: you what's amazing is everybody people are asking the same questions. Like when they're with me or with you guys, they're probably just as aghast as we are, but yet they won't, you know, go out of their way 'cause it doesn't necessarily affect them but, you know, directly. John McAleavey: Yeah. And Trevor Dyson-Hudson: But but travel's John McAleavey: I will Trevor Dyson-Hudson: become hard for I mean, unfortunately, we're just kind of at the bottom, right? So it's become really kind of rough for able bodied people. You know, the poor airline people. Sasha: For everybody. Right. Well that's like Barrett was saying, they're not gonna make room up front for wheelchairs at the cost of having first class people. Barry: But but you asked for solutions, Johnny. And Sasha: Yeah. Barry: one of the ones that they're working on is the idea of bringing your own chair right onto the plane and sitting in it. You can do it on a bus, you can do it on a train. So why can't you do it on a plane? That's where they're John McAleavey: Yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: I guess Barry: going right now. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: would you wanna sit in your manual chair for a flight though, Barry? I don't know. I think but some Yeah. Yeah. Barry: On a long one. In a power chair I could see it. I can see people in a power chair, but in a manual Sasha: Yeah. Barry: chair I I probably would Sasha: Powered share I think yes, but honestly I don't think that I I mean, you know what? Screw that. Yes I could. I mean I mean I could Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah, but I wouldn't want I'd be Barry: I could. If I could avoid all Trevor Dyson-Hudson: so uncomfortable. Yeah, it's jazz. Barry: that if I can just wheel off the plane, I'd be happy with that too. Depending how long Sasha: Right. That's Barry: it is. Sasha: John, that's the part I think that is a security factor. If somehow like it could be just it's the ice it's the the not knowing where my chair is. The next step. What's Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah. Yeah. Sasha: the next step? Always worrying about that next step and it's not in your control. That's the part that that's that's the gambling. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Yeah, can we store it? More storage on the plane itself for your chair. And I mean sometimes you're lucky and if a plane's big enough, they do have a closet that if you take Sasha: Right. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: the wheels off, like I've done that. And there's such a peace of mind knowing that my chair is in a closet and it's right there. Sasha: It's like when I John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Sasha: land and I get to see my chair out the window, my god Yeah, yeah. Trevor Dyson-Hudson: yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. John McAleavey: Simple pleasures, right? Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Reunited. John McAleavey: wow. Well, I guess, fellas, to to add the pun to this, I think we've safely landed the plane after our conversation here. And so Trevor Dyson-Hudson: Nice job, John. John McAleavey: yeah, I I hope that for those listeners out there, you can probably commiserate with some of the stories that that my friends have told, and I'm sure you have your own, and hopefully Some of the key takeaways, maybe things that we can all as a community push for in the future will make all of our lives that much easier. and and so what we'll do is we'll we'll hit the pause here and we look forward to bringing some more issues forth, the the four of us together in the future, myself, John McAlevy, Barry Munro, Sasha Rabchewski, and and Dr. Trevor Dyson Hudson. We thank you for joining us and we hope you'll stick with us in the future. because we've got more great topics to to discuss with you down the road.