Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #254: Joel’s Harrowing Journey to the White House & Reflections on The State of American Food Freedom

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Episode #254: Joel’s Harrowing Journey to the White House & Reflections on The State of American Food Freedom · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: When I wrote about being invited and then couldn't go, my Blogosphere universe lit up with people saying, Charter a jet, I'll dump in a thousand dollars.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the level of support I just couldn't believe.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: I get my official, you know, RSVP to the White House.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: One and a half hours later, I got a notice that.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, everybody.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to another Beyond Labels episode with yours truly, Joel Salathan, the farmer, and our favorite researcher, Dr.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: Cena McCullough, who happens today to be uh in California at her dad's um house.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: And her dad is a collector of um of old weapons of mass destruction.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: And you will see you will see um a display of swords behind her.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh just to her right, there are safes with uh all sorts of things.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: She says this house is like a museum.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, her parents lived around the world in Europe and stuff and gradually accumulated some amazing uh artifacts from from uh days gone by.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of it's kind of cool.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why don't worry, Cena hasn't turned into, you know, warrior mom or anything uh uh for us.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: But uh that's why that's why the her background is behind her um today that's a little bit unusual from our more benign and um um pastel background.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, usually I have pictures of my kids and dogs and a piece of cedar wood from Polyface Farm behind me.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, today it's like seeing a warrior.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I have started working out more lately, Joel, so maybe it's fitting.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, all right, good.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: Well, when you join uh uh whatever jujitsu or whatever it is, that'll be uh that that'll be the time.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um that that uh that cedar wood, you know, um we did that at at the uh two days of truth summit where we went out and got a and got a a little cedar tree and and um all the the young people brought it up and we um cut out little boards and everybody got to take some home with them.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh cedar is a beautiful wood, isn't it?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love it.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, it smells so good.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: It smells so good.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: We have multiple pieces and yeah, we kind of fight over who gets it in their room.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it was great though.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was it's it was such a memorable thing for the kids to be able to do with you, you know, and and for them to be able to tell their friends, like, hey, I cut wood with Joel Salatin from his farm.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, that's that's incredible.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: You don't you don't go to many summits and get hear your kids saying how excited they are about cutting down trees and wood with a farmer.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, it was so neat to be able to to to I mean to cut the tree and tote it into the sawmill and cut the board so they could see it from tree to coming in and then carry a board in their hand.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's that's a that's about as visceral as it gets.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's pretty neat.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, and I will have to, I gotta tell the listeners this too.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: So the day before the summit, I showed up early to uh record some podcasts with Joel that morning.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I figured out that on the stage, since Joel and I were going to be on the stage with each speaker, we needed two bar stools.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I asked Joel, do you have any bar stools anywhere, like on this farm?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, your response was something to the effect of, oh, well, gosh, if you would have told me in the morning, we could have had such and such make a couple bar stools.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, My son heard that and he said, my teenage son, and he said, That is the coolest thing I've ever heard.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how amazing to have people around you and material around you that's so resourceful that literally in a few hours you can just make a chair.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's incredible.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's fun.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we have a we have a great team here.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but today, Cena, we we want to we want to talk a little bit about uh a couple of things that that I've been closely involved with uh lately, and and I'm sure many of our uh listeners also um get my blog.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're gonna drill down a little bit in um in a couple of things that have happened just lately.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: One was the um executive order uh the president signed.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Essentially, it says federal agencies um need to play nice with Regen Ag.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I mean I'm I'm paraphrasing, but that's that's the basic idea.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: It does, it doesn't it doesn't designate any money, it doesn't designate any specifics.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: It just says our administration wants to be friendly to Regen Ag.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: So that that was an executive order um that was signed.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: And and initially, and of course, I didn't know that was happening.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Cena may be surprising to you.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of secrets in Washington.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, no and and and here, you know, I I'm an old, you know, look, I'm an old news guy, you know, I'm an old journalist, and um and I just don't do secrets.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I just I I don't like them.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um and especially among government agencies, uh I just think there shouldn't really be any closed meetings or closed sessions.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um and when there is, I assume the worst, you know, that some some um you know smoke-filled room is coming up with some problem.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, um But it's fascinating since our founding started in like you know, the Constitution started in a closed building, closed doors to the public, right?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, well, part of that was because they were concerned that if they couldn't get it together before King George could get his act together, they would all be killed.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: There's there there are things to do in private, yes, there are things to do in private.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: And that was certainly one of them because um they were getting rich, some of them were getting ready to be hung, you know, uh, because what they were doing was traitorous.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: And um King George was not very friendly.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: But um I got a call and got invited to this um meeting with the president that was it was presented to me a little bit as this is a chance for you to um present your food emancipation proclamation to him, which anybody who knows anything about me knows that I've been on this whatever this um this objective for goodness, 20 years that that we need to free up um farmers and consumers, neighbors to be able to do neighbor to neighbor commerce, food commerce, without asking the government's permission.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and so uh I I the problem was I was to be in Idaho at the Modern Homesteading Conference, and and the day that this was going to be was the day in between, in between um speaking down near Boise, doing a one-day seminar down near Boise, and then a two-day up at the Modern Homesteading Conference in Court d'Alane.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: They're they're several hours apart.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so um so people fly from Boise to Spokane, Washington, which is just you know, they're 30 minutes from uh Court d'Alane.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: So uh, so you know, initially I just kind of begged off and said, no, I can't, you know, can't make it.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: I I can't get there from Idaho, I can't get there and back.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we we actually looked at commercial flights, even red eyes and things, and it just couldn't be done.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I just kind of begged off and said no.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well, when I wrote about being invited and then couldn't go, my my blogosphere universe lit up with people saying, charter a jet, I'll dump in a thousand dollars.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the the the the level of support was um well, I just couldn't believe it.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so within within an hour or two of posting that blog, we had a charter jet pilot who was flying from Minnesota to Pennsylvania on Thursday, on on Wednesday evening, actually, um say, well, I can just come down to um to Court Elaine, pick you up there, and drop you off at in a a private airstrip in uh Manassas near Washington DC, you know, if you can find somebody to you know pick you up and all that.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: So um so through the efforts of some real loyal supporters, suddenly I had a free Cena, a free charter jet ride to Washington, D.C.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: from Idaho.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: I would leave Wednesday night, get there at five o'clock Thursday morning, meet with the president at um at 1 o'clock, and then fly back to Idaho for my presentations on Friday morning.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: So um, so we had that, so I had to I had to get you know somebody here at the farm to I mean because I was out on farms in Idaho, I didn't take good clothes with me, so I had arranged Teresa picked got pulled stuff out of the closet, and we got one of our team members to send, you know, to arrange to meet me up at the airport with you know clothes that I could change into.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: And um Hilda Gore's husband, Mitch, many of our listeners know Hilda, uh holistic Hilda.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he's just a wonderful guy.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, Hey, I'll I'll come out to the airport, pick you up.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: They lived in downtown D.C., so he knows.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, man, the the guy doesn't even use GPS.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you say any address you want to go, and he just, you know, uh, he takes you there.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I said, okay.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: So every everything was falling into place.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I can actually get there and all that.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I get my I get my official um um you know, RSVP to the White House, uh paper, you know, forms to fill out, identification, uh uh what door to come in, what time to be there.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was yeah, it was pretty, it was the real deal.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: And um and um one and a half hours later, I got a notice that I'd been canceled.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: They invited five, they invited five farmers to come.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: Initially I didn't know that I was one of five.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: I thought this was something that, you know, RFK Jr.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: and his team and all that had actually gotten an actual, you know, 30-minute pitch time for me to be with the president.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's because that's what I've been asking for forever.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: I want 30 minutes with Trump to pitch a food emancipation proclamation that basically says that two consenting adults exercising freedom of choice to give their microbiome agency should be able to engage in a food transaction without asking a bureaucrat's permission.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: That that's that's basically what I'm what I'm after.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: Very, very simple.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: So um, so anyway, I was canceled and um I I I don't have all the inside information.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, there's there's a vetting procedure for anyone who comes into the president's presence.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um and the four other guys made it and I got canceled.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um the the underlying stuff was that I had said bad things about Trump and so I got I got canceled.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: Which which I have.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I told him I said, goodness, I've said bad things about myself, you know.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: So uh, you know, why why be that thin-skinned?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, anyway, the bottom line is I got canceled.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what specifically, you know, uh got me canceled, but the fact is I didn't make it through the vetting procedure.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so there were four farmers there, not me.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and uh as it turned out, uh he signed this executive order that essentially is just hot air, in my opinion.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's just it says all federal agencies basically will be friendly to regen ag from now on.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: And um, of course, the Maha movement views this as a you know, it's a very positive step to actually have the president sign an executive order saying pr play friendly with uh regen ag.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: And um and and and this is the same president who two who two months before signed an executive order saying that glyphosate is necessary for a national survival.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh he made it glyphosate, elevated glyphosate to a to a place of national security, which means national security means the nation doesn't survive if we don't have this.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: And Cena, it's the first time a particular product has ever been elevated to national security status.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: There have been there have been economic sectors like like car manufacturers to build you know airplanes during World War II, like uh precious metals or or things there are or or or um um you know exotic metals or different things.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: So that there have been economic sectors just a couple times throughout American history that have been elevated to a national security status, but never a specific product.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: So this is unprecedented in American history to have a specific product elegate uh elevated to a place of national security.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so, and then of course, then of course we had the whole um Bayer-Monsanto ruling at at the Supreme Court on glyphosate labeling and and warning labels, which of course the White House sent their high-powered attorneys and amicus briefs to argue in favor of Bayer and Monsanto.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, we now know that they won.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so here we are, right in the I'm I'm I'm belaboring the point a little bit to to to help the drama.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: Here we are, right in the midst of of all of this um glyphosate talk, national security, uh press releases, um, you know, all the stuff that surrounds this this um political brujaha, you know.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then, well, let's do an executive order saying that federal agencies need to play nice with, you know, region ag.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: Now, see now, these are the federal agencies.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Federal agencies, by and large, forever, have made fun of region ag.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that that's the latest word.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you can call it ecological agriculture, you can call it whatever you want to.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, non-chemical, non-chemical agriculture.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um they they have they have um just uh done this and and the executive order, it it actually it actually uh includes a desire for precision agriculture.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my Cena, you know that is a code word for AI generated laser um whatever, you know, high-tech, non-biological, non-biological um strategic uh intervention in in food and farming.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: And largely to help uh the large, the big ad monocrophs of this point.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: So um bottom line is that I would not have gotten a chance to present food proclam food emancipation proclamation and would have been a party to a um a photo op that's like you know, it would be it would be like saying um you know, it'd be like saying, uh Protestants, I know you've not gotten along well with Muslims for a long time, but from now on, you play nice with the Muslims.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah, you know, it's it's like you throw a bone to this dog or or you feed this dog, it gets great, great big, you know, the glyphosate and all that.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then, okay, you you you minions over here, we'll we'll throw you a bone over here, you know.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's the way it's presented to me.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: And and I can assure you, I can assure you, Sina, by from talking to people in that are in high circles in Maha, that this executive order about glyphosate and then the Trump administration completely taking the um the whole glyphosate position, you know, at the Supreme Court, it has it has really um I don't broken up maybe it it has it the nicest word would be incredibly frustrating, but it's but it but I think it has really um taken the wind out of the sails.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'll put it that way.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's taken the wind out of the sails of a lot of the Maha um movement.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: And and um they're just and and so so I can see this whole new executive order.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh federal agencies play nice with Region AG as simply a placation of the Maha group.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: All right, I've just burned you up here in two great big things.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'll I'll throw you this, you know, to uh to show you that I'm I'm a friend.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: And um and there's Cena that there's no true North.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: There just isn't.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: There's no true North in DC in the swamp.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I don't want to just come off as totally uh you know pessimistic, but the the more I rub shoulders with these power brokers, um, the less I want to spend any time with them.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: I I I just want I just want thousands of farmers to just start growing the right way, and thousands of food buyers to buying the right way, and just and just and and just view the world as if uh Washington, DC is obsolete, you know, beyond labels, beyond labels, you know.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: So beyond Washington, yeah, yeah.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: We don't we don't need them.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: And uh it's all it's all a bunch of uh smoke and mirrors and it's uh it's a real it's a real frustration.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because if you think about it, uh even the people who are advocating for legislation, they spend a lot of their time fighting against Washington, right?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like fighting to just get a scrap at the table.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're not even at the table, they're kind of under the table trying to get a scrap.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I I agree.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Now, um, were you invited to DC for a photo op?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like the five farmers, were they there to do a photo op?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like was or or was this like I think so you're yeah so but that was the extent of it.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was to do a photo op.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't to actually discuss policy with Trump, it was just to take a photo.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I I I think the entire session lasted about 30 minutes.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't a very long session for you know for all those people involved.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and yeah, it was basically a photo op.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: That that's what it was.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: And and they wanted some they wanted some some uh whatever, you know, celebrity heads to oh as he signed that executive order.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes from Regen Ag.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, okay.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know how the cameras are he he's signing it, and behind him stand these, you know, these luminaries, you know, uh in Regenerative AG, yeah, who are in lockstep alignment with me and are supporting me.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: So wow, so Joel, I think that God saved you on this one.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I do, I do too.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: I do too.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: I I I take it I I exactly take it that way.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: And um it look, it it hasn't it doesn't change.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: my views about anything and I and I would still like to have 30 minutes with Trump, okay?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: So it hasn't changed anything of that.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: But you do become you do become older and wiser and and you start seeing the I don't know the the you know the the finger in the wind thing um and and it just is it it's it's really frustrating.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, one of the things that people don't realize I think is the the core of the Maha movement is all ex-Democrat.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: And on on this program we are not partisan on this program.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: We're we're uh we're beyond labels we're beyond partisan okay but but I uh I'm just I'm just stating as a fact that most of the people at the core of the Maha movement have sought government relief for the for the various things that they want to do whether it's to ban glyphosate or you know change the school lunch program or whatever it is um they have wanted government involvement in remediating whatever whatever their bogeyman is okay their hot button and so and so what happens is that the that the um that the movement is not primarily a a liberty minded movement and and I say that carefully because I don't want to I don't want to you know cast unnecessary disparagements but um but it it's it's like it's like they come together and we've got new power now.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: We've got RFK Jr in there we've got you know we've got some some voting power and those bad guys have been putting money in this bucket over here all this time they look at all the money they put in this bad bucket all right we're gonna bring a bucket to the table by golly and here's our bucket and we want money in this bucket oh my gosh I almost just snorted I laughed so hard but but but can't you just see it?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean yeah and and and so and so I'm sitting here saying we don't need a bucket let's let's let's get rid of the buckets let's just get rid of all the buckets and uh and and let and and let freedom and let liberty uh choose this this thing and so um so yeah it's a it's a really really crazy um convoluted and you know and they say politics makes big makes strange bedfellas and uh that's certainly the truth you know it it you you think you think you have it figured out and then you know then it's it's not that way and it you know see I think I think one of the hardest things I've been thinking about this a lot since all this went down and I think one of the hardest political philosophical political um things to change in your mind is to change from a government solution orientation to a market solution orientation or a libertarian solution orientation.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: And you know the the most disempowering thing you can do to a citizenry is to assume that the most efficacious way to solve a problem is with government intervention.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah that that's the most disempowering thing anybody can come to it's the most disempowering thing I can come to uh i if I see a problem in society I don't immediately assume well the best solution to this problem is a government intervention yeah I I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna shop differently um whatever live differently um you know I'm gonna do something differently and then I'm gonna encourage friends to do it differently but I'm not gonna trot down to the legislature or Congress and say hey I see a problem over here um fix it for me but that's that's the mentality we've come to in our in our culture and it's it it's it's frightening because that seems to be the the go-to the the default position I see a problem let's make a law and the you know the Romans the Romans had a had an axiom that you could tell the the strength and um and virility I think they have actually well you know they didn't use the word virility but they used the you know the ro the the Latin um uh derivative um you you can tell the strength and virility of a culture by how many laws it has because as a culture becomes weak immoral and and and vapid that's a good word too vapid um the only thing that it can do is pass laws it can't actually fix anything it just passes laws and so you get laws upon laws upon laws none of them really have any bite to them but well at least we passed the law and and and and um and and that's what you see we we don't we don't need laws we need um you know we need personal responsibility and action that's what we need oh I love that yeah we have so many laws that most of us don't there's no way that we could all know all the laws like that are in the federal register there's absolutely no way no we don't even know that most of us do illegal things every day yeah that that's so many laws yeah yeah that's exactly true and and and then you come to the fact that you have freedom when the government fears the people and you have tyranny when the people fear the government.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and and um so you know so here we are so um so that that's kind of that's kind of that little saga so I did not go I was able to just go on with my regular schedule and um talk to a bunch of homesteaders and get a good night's sleep and um and all that and not deal with all the haranguing there.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: But then um just then very next week and and this had been this had been in going building for some time there was a um a big 250th anniversary event a two-week event in DC called uh the Great American State Fair and um they they designated two weeks to celebrate the 250th there on the on the National Mall in DC it went on for two weeks for the week before July 4th and the week after July 4th and of course President Trump spoke on July 4th you know that was the actual uh day and uh I was asked believe it or not to come and be one of the speakers uh they asked me that so one day was devoted to agriculture one day was devoted to uh trade one day was devoted to Maha um I I don't know what all the other days were I mean you can look it up uh I haven't I haven't dug into what all the days were but anyway they wanted me to come on ag day and I couldn't I was already speaking somewhere else so um I was able to go on Maha day on on the um the day they had dedicated to Maha um Callie Mean spoke right ahead of me I don't know who else spoke all that day but essentially they had they had 45 minute rotations uh on on the stage there uh throughout the day and um each day uh each day a different theme okay and uh and and uh down the mall every state had a little reception room okay so you could go and visit any any state right on the mall um had a reception room and the long line I looked down the mall you know and and there was there weren't that many people but one the entire time I was there had a hundred foot or well no more than that 200 foot line it was about as long as a football field line of people and so I asked my uh hostess I said uh why is the New York why does New York have a line the other states don't she said well they're they're they're giving a bunch of stuff away I thought yeah that's that's New York okay you know um giving everything away and so people uh love to come and get freebies but um what I spoke on was um a food emancipation proclamation and I know our listeners have heard me you know uh carry on about this before but there were there were a couple things that I uh because of this 250th anniversary I wanted to go back and um and and and bring up a couple things and one was um Thomas Jefferson here's when he when Thomas Jefferson vote wrote notes on the state of Virginia here was one of the things that he said was the government to prescribe our medicine and our diet our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now this was written prior to the revolution and what he was referring to is our souls are currently in a in a terrible strait here under the British hand of British government and so our souls are in terrible shape and if the government were to prescribe our medicine and our diet our bodies our physical situation would be in as bad a shape as our souls are now wow so if you've ever wondered what would the founder say about our federal FDA and I mean wow yeah now that was his official that was his official quote in notes from the state of Virginia now throughout the years that that sentence has kind of morphed to this that this is kind of if you look at you know history books this is the way it's been morphed if people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicine they take their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls who live under tyranny so that's kind of the way that that quote has been garnered in you know children's textbooks and you know historical books um because the initial first notes of Virginia sentences sentence is a little bit it's a little bit uh you know hard to the context is a little bit hard to follow.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: So so this this really and so that that gives us a a good um a good context but so so what what I did I I riffed off of Jefferson I said you know if there are two things that our government tells us what to do it's our medicine and our food right I mean isn't isn't it Cena isn't it amazing that those are the two things he he picked you know he didn't he didn't he didn't pick he didn't pick transportation he didn't pick communication or education yeah or education I mean think of all the things he could have picked but the man was prescient enough to pick medicine and food I mean I just think it's almost beyond it's like prophetic it has to be a God thing you know that's so you know things like that happen you're like the only way these things could have lined up was through God's hands like that yeah yeah that had to been a God thing and you know I was just thinking I would love to to be a fly in the wall to hear a conversation with you and Thomas Jefferson like you know how amazing that conversation would be like two great minds two you know farmers coming together like wow that would be that would be spectacular yep yep oh I would I would uh love love to do that um that would be cool so I also be because it was the 250 I lifted the line out of a declar out of the Declaration of Independence if you've read that you know what what it does is it lists all these grievances.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know King George you know he's done this this this and this all right and here's one of them here's one of the here's one of them straight out of the Declaration of Independence King George has sent to our shores swarms of investigators to harass our people and eat out our substance now what I said today it's not King George it's King USDA FDA and and every other alphabet government agency up there um but but you know that's that that's where we are and so um so where I ended up and I I won't bore our listeners I think with my whole you know the the whole idea of of neighbor to neighbor commerce I'm not I'm not talking about being able to sell to Walmart or ship to Vietnam uh without any regulations.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not I don't I don't have time for that fight.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: What I am fighting for is if you and I as consenting adults want to engage in a food transaction we should be able to do it without asking a bureaucrat's permission.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right now if a if I have a milk cow and she has a calf and makes a lot of milk and my family can't eat it all and you're my neighbor and you say hey you know could I could I buy some that left that extra milk from you I can't sell it it's illegal.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah can they give you a donation could it just be like a you you can't even just donate you can give it away and but can they hand you like okay you're not charging me for this but I'm gonna hand you a$5 donation can you call it a donation it gets sticky that gets sticky it's been tried and the problem with that is you have to be both practically and philosophically consistent.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're actually giving it away and somebody comes up and says well I want some of that milk and you say well the way it works is you know you give me a donation and I give you the milk so so what happens is yes theoretically theoretically what you're saying is exactly correct you can give it away but but when when a when a when you're hauled into court and a judge is looking down at you and asking if a hundred people showed up and wanted you know free pork chops or free milk would you would you give it to them and you waver oh uh I'm not sure you know well Mr.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: Salatin isn't this really a charade you're actually selling it you know you're you're it's just not what you call it.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and and at the end of the day whether it's a private membership association uh giving it away you know any other of these um these things it doesn't really matter what you call it what matters is what a judge calls it yeah wow well based on that quote you shared man Thomas Jefferson if he was alive today he would be appalled it's outraged is shocked at what the system has turned into yes yes he absolutely would and and there is I've never been able to to to just pin it all down but I've heard historians say that there was talk at the Bill of Rights about putting food in there.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah but but it would but but it never got any traction because it was they it was so silly I mean everybody just they were just selling to their neighbors I mean there was no Walmart there was no Costco and and so they they just said oh you look when you read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights you realize how how spar how uh I mean you've written the books I've written books you know how hard it is to to write concisely yeah the easiest thing in the world is to just blather on blather on you know uh um at infinity you know um when people ask well why did you write such a long book I've heard authors say well because I didn't have enough time to write a short one um you know my my my old uh advanced comp teacher in um in uh high school she said until you can put your essay or your book in one sentence you're not ready to write and and that's and she's exactly she was exactly right uh profound and so so what I'm getting at is when you read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights you realize how concise how precise these guys were uh they they did not want to be wordy and so they didn't want to clog it up with stuff and and food they would have considered is just oh come on that's ridiculous so so they looked they looked around the world and said okay what are the specific things that we have seen tyrannies engage in in other countries that we want to protect against so the first freedom of religion okay the freedom of the press freedom of speech okay uh freedom to assemble um of course you know uh Second Amendment guns all right they saw that guns confiscated throughout you know any time there was an uprising get all the guns together right um or get the guns out of the hands of the people and so uh the guns um the right of private contract okay which we have run roughshod over completely with all of our federal you know regulations um and so so they looked at very very specific uh specific tyrannical um history and said here's what we're not gonna do well at that time you know 1776 at that time there were basically no food regulations in the entire world because there there was no there was no real global food trade yeah there were spices spices and salt and things but but there wasn't there wasn't a real global nobody was shipping soybeans to China you know there there was no real global food trade it was all pretty pretty um local and so they they just they just thought it it's it's unnecessary you know it's unnecessary and so they they just didn't put it in but um kind of one of those things you take for granted oh right it's just so common sense like you know you took that for granted they probably never fathom a time when the government would be controlling the food their food supply that that's right they thought yeah yeah it was just um uh unnecessary and and there's no sense spending time on it because it's unnecessary so so where I where I um where I went and and and and in the talk was of course a lot of my old material but uh or my regular material but um part of it was to point out that all of the big players you know uh so grandpa Don Tyson Grandpa Frank Purdue and grandpa Bob Evans okay I mean name your big food company today all of them started in the 30s and 40s most of them in the 30s um from the tailgate of a pickup truck you know there was there was a bright eyed bushy tailed young you know entrepreneur minded guy and he from the tailgate of his pickup truck he had you know stuff and um and started started selling it off the tailgate of his pickup truck and all these guys started embryonically but the problem is that when you have such a a um a wall of permits inspections and infrastructure between that that pickup truck and a guy that was and a and a and a I'll I'll say a lady because all All food buyers are women.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: Men don't buy anything.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: And a lady who wants to buy from that bright-eyed, bushy-tailed young entrepreneur from the tailgate of a pickup truck, when you have a wall between them, then the entrepreneur, the new creative, innovative guy, has to figure out how to get over that wall, which then takes a lot of money and time and attention, which means his idea, his dream, has to be birthed big.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: And we don't like big babies.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: We like little babies.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if babies were 50 pounds, we wouldn't have very many of them.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, that's why an oak tree is birthed with acorns.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: A corn plant is birthed with a seed.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: A cow is birthed with a calf.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: All birthing requires embryonic, small, small components of that thing.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so I issued a statement, Cena, that I've never said before, but in that con in that context, at the National Mall in DC on this day, I said, Mr.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: Trump, tear down this wall.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: Remember Reagan telling Gorbachev, Mr.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: Gorbachev, tear down this wall.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, it did collapse, the wall in the Soviet Union, the Berlin Wall, and all that.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_02: Did did eventually collapse.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and so I think that's where we are.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that was my challenge to um to Trump is Mr.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_02: Trump, tear down this wall.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_02: Here we are, you know, we're sending troops all over the all over the world.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_02: We've got whatever it is, 357 um uh barracks of U.S.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: soldiers stationed all over the world to meddle in other people's stuff and put our young men in harms or young and young men, women in harm's way.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I can't even sell a chicken pot pie to a neighbor.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_02: Mr.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_02: Trump, tear down this wall.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, though that comparison, it's no surprise that they're in our kitchens, right?
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: That they're meddling in our kitchens.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: If meddling in other countries, it was only a matter of time that they were gonna creep into every facet of our lives.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: I I love that historical context.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: And um I was just thinking, I wonder how many teens and 20-year-olds would not understand that reference of tear down this wall.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I couldn't help but think that uh uh when I said it, um, probably many of them have no idea what that reference is about.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, which is sad.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you're bringing it back into vogue.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: But for those, but for those of us who remember the Cold War and the um the bomb the bomb shelter exercises in elementary school where everybody, where the sirens went off during the 60s, and we had to all climb under our desks, you know, um in case there was a nuclear attack from the Soviet Union.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, those of us who lived through that and then and then um watched as Reagan made that challenge to um Gorbachev, um that um co-opting, co-opting that context and that phrase in this context is I think it captures the essence of what I'm trying to do is let's tear down this wall and actually open up and and and and let and let the market speak.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, how fitting that I'm in California in my dad's office filled with all these in home filled with all these artifacts that he got in Europe because you know, I actually have a piece of the wall.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like we actually, yeah, we drove and we saw it, and I have a piece of it.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: So how of another God thing that the timing of this podcast, um yeah, it's a for those who know the context, it that's a very um powerful statement and very applicable, you know, to uh to to the food supply because it is, it's that whole and it's visual.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: What I love about it is it's visual.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: If you just visualize there is this wall all around us all the time of all the bureaucracy.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: And like we said, you're gonna be doing something illegal every day that you don't even know about, you know, it's everywhere, and it does feel like it's suffocating in some in a lot of different ways, particularly when it comes to the foods we want, or the medical doctors we want, or the tests, the medical tests we want, or the herbals that we want, or supplements even, you know, that the homeopathy bills come back up, come back around that they're gonna be voting on.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just like this infringement on all sides.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it can feel a little bit overwhelming uh if you're following you know the current events.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: But man, if they just took that wall down and just even like, let's just take it out for a test drive.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Just you don't even have to take it down permanently.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just take it down for a little bit, like this period of time.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um like it's it's called it's called a sunset, a sunset clause.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh take take it down or or do like do like uh Massey's Prime Act and um and and and allow allow states that want to to do it.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean right now we've got we've got what six, seven states that have passed pretty aggressive cottage food laws, you know, like food sovereignty laws, uh but but they always get stuck on this element uh of dairy and dairy, especially dairy and meat and poultry, because those are federal regs, which in our previous podcast we talked about um uniformity and supremacy.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so um so when you when you have federal supreme over state, the state can't override it.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so we so we actually have states.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like Wyoming was the first one to say if the Prime Act goes in, for those of us, for those that don't understand, the Prime Act is uh is Massey's Congressman Thomas Massey's signature um bill that would allow uh a state to um okay, let me back up.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_02: Custom processing.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_02: There's three kinds of processing state inspection, federal inspection, and custom processing, which is not inspected.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's where I bring a custom uh slaughterhouse, my animal, and say, would you uh slaughter this animal and fabricate it and I'll come and pick up the packages?
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's called custom.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_02: So in other words, they're custom, they're custom fabricating my animal for me.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: That does not require any inspection.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh the Prime Act, Massey's Prime Act, allows um uh allows a state that would like to that would like to allow intrastate within that state sales of this uninspected uh meat to occur and the USDA would stand down.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, it it doesn't it doesn't guarantee anything.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: All it guarantees is if a state wants to put their hand up and say, yeah, we'd we'd like to our our our farmers and consumers to be able to engage in a in a meat transaction without a government agent in between, they can do that.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_02: And Wyoming is the first state that already uh signed their legislation into that that if the Prime Act passes, they've already they don't even have to pass anything more.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's they've already they've already uh said we want to do it.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_02: And if uh and when the day the uh if the Prime Act goes in, and by the way, it's still in the farm bill, it hasn't been stripped out of the farm bill, so it's still there.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_02: And if it goes in, you know, it'll be now Massey now calls it subprime because they that what they've done is they've they've um uh re redone it to where each state that wants that puts their hand up and says, yeah, we want to do this, can only have five uh five abattoirs do it, five per state.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like it's a test, right?
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_02: They didn't they didn't put a time time test on it, they put a a a new numerical uh that's why Massey says this is subprime, uh, because it, you know, his Prime Act was was anybody that wants to do it can.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_02: He's he said he said to my in my database, he said, I have a thousand, imagine this, a thousand small community abattoirs that would either start up or or start up or re-up, in other words, a lot of them have been closed down and shuttered, all right.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_02: So a thousand that would start up or unshutter tomorrow, the day the Prime Act passes.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_02: Can you imagine what a thousand small neighborhood abattoirs suddenly back online in America would do to our to our meat choices?
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: And and prices.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, yeah, and prices because because the the federal inspection of a small plant adds somewhere between you know 20 and 30 percent to the cost of it.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_02: Wow because of all the paperwork.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, Theresa and I own this small, small slaughterhouse in Harrisonburg.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: There's, I don't know, what, 25 employees.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_02: We do maybe, I don't know, 50 beef a week, uh, plus hogs and things, but let's just stay with beef for a minute.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: 50 beef a week.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_02: A Tyson plant does 5,000 a day.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_02: A day.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: Imagine a hundred tractor trailer loads.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_02: They put about 50 on a tractor trailer, that's a hundred tractor trailer loads a day going in to one facility.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_02: Imagine the blood, the hides, the guts, the manure, five thousand animals a day, and and their permits and requirements are exactly the same as ours doing 50 a week.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_02: So so it costs us five to six hundred dollars to do what Tyson does for 125.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's crazy.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the way you lay that out, because one of the arguments that I've heard against the Prime Act is that the it will compromise the safety of the food.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so, but what you just laid out like, I don't want to eat chicken from one of those, you know, government-regulated facilities when you have that high throughput.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's okay.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_02: So so just just so you know, custom slaughterhouses, the ones that I've been, you know, these these small neighborhood custom uh facilities, they're they're not they're not under inspection.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, there's no there's no government agent on site.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_02: However, they are in the system and they are monitored.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_02: They're monitored by Food Safety Inspection Service.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_02: So there's data on problems.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_02: How many times has there been a problem at this plant?
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_02: You ready for this?
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_02: Pete Kennedy.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_02: Pete Kennedy found this for me.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_02: Since the Wholesome Meat Act of 1968, so that's 1968 is the day when no American could buy a T-bone steak without it being inspected.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_02: And no, no, no, uh, I should switch that around.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_02: No farmer could sell a T-bone steak without a federal government official inspecting it from 1968.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_02: Up until then, it it wasn't as bad.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_02: So since the Wholesome Meat Act of 1960, wholesome meat act, you know, isn't that something how they sign how they write these things?
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_02: Wholesome act 1968.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uninspected custom processed meat has not had not registered a single occurrence of unsafe product.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_02: Not one.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if they had registered 10, you'd think, well, that's really, really tiny.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_02: If they'd registered a hundred, I mean, since 1968, we're talking about almost 60 years.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_02: Millions of animals.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_02: Think about how many recalls there have been in the inspected end of it.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_02: All sorts of recalls or social problems, salmonella, E.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_02: coli, listeria, you know, um toxicity, all sorts of things.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_02: But in the custom, so we got three things federal, state, and custom.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_02: And in the custom, not one.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_02: Not one.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if it if it were a hundred of uh, you know, unsafe products, tainted products, if it were a hundred, we'd say, wow, that's really, really tiny, you know, uh, but not one.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_02: Not one.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so the the entire safety argument is completely bogus.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's completely bogus.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um also, you know, uninspected food can be given away, it can be purchased, fed to children, and consumed freely, it just can't be sold.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_02: Every other thing that that that ha that is considered hazardous that might pass through our lips, um, the regulation is across the board.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_02: You can't buy it, you can't sell it, you can't use it, you can't give it to your kids, uh, you can't you can't give it away.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, cocaine, prescription drugs, all right, all that stuff.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_02: But food, the prohibition is only on selling it.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_02: You can buy it, in other words, if I'm happy to sell you illegal product illegal food and you're happy to buy it, no government agent will ever tell you you can't buy it.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's completely legal for you to buy it, and you can use it, and you can feed it to your children, and you can take it to the church potluck, and you can donate to the fire department uh fundraiser for a bingo, you know, uh first prize raffle.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_02: The only thing you can't do is sell it.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, what is it about exchanging a quarter that suddenly takes a philanthropic, safe, you know, patriotic um thing and makes it a hazardous substance?
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, clearly, this is not about food safety, it's about market access.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, so I don't I feel like I'm missing something.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I can buy it, but not sell it.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_00: So how am I gonna buy it if nobody can sell it to me?
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, people can sell it illegally under the table.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_02: I can't black market.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_00: Black marketing.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, how is that even possible that I I can't even get it if you're not able to sell it?
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, you go you go into a dark corner where the druggies hang out and you say, You got a glass of raw milk for me?
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_02: You got it, you did you do you have one of those uh homemade chicken pot pies?
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, so so that's exactly the point.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, in the in the in in illicit drugs, you can't buy it.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_02: But in food, you can buy it and you can use it, and you can give it to your kids, and you can give it away.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: You just can't you just can't sell it.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_02: So so so it so if if I'm so if I'm willing you know, to make uninspected, you know, chicken pot pie and uh charcuterie and pepperoni and quiche and uh you know um ice cream with eggs in it.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my, that's like a I mean it it it it takes a million dollar infrastructure to try to make.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_02: We worked years ago, we had a wonderful small entrepreneurial business here in Waynesboro that tried for I think two years to make homemade ice cream with our eggs in it.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_02: And they they finally gave up.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_02: They never they they could never they could never satisfy the regulators.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_02: At their scale.
• 1:01:54
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's one thing.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_02: Look, if you've got to have if you've got to have a a$10,000 thermometer to satisfy the Hassett plan, that's hazardous analysis critical control point um plan, that's one thing if you're making tractor trailer loads of ice cream.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're making five-gallon buckets, yeah, that$10,000 thermometer suddenly kept you from ever going into business because the baby is too big to be birthed.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, yeah, we definitely need to have this regulatory wall torn down.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_00: But wait, so if I showed up at Polyface and I said, Hey, Joel, I want to buy a pot pie from you, so I could legally buy that from you and you could illegally sell it to me.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then if someone finds out, I won't get in trouble then.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: You will get in trouble.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_02: I will get in trouble, but I won't.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_02: But you won't.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody, not a single American has ever gotten in trouble for buying illegal food, ever.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_02: And even feeding it to their kids.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody ever.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I could go in, uh, but you have to like in Virginia, and I know we're out of time, so uh I I wasn't I'll try to hurry up with this, but so like in Virginia, when I lived there, we had a herd chair.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but so I could legally get milk because I owned part of that cow.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_00: But that's right, but and then you could buy milk as it labeled as pet food, right?
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like food for pet consumption.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_00: But so you're saying if somebody had raw milk, if I was in Virginia, I did not have a herd chair, and somebody had raw milk on the shelf, and I was like, I'm gonna give you ten dollars for this raw milk, I could legally do that.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, but they could they would be in trouble if they got caught doing that.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's correct, that's absolutely correct.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, wow, yeah.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_02: So, so so Cena, clearly, clearly, this is not about food safety.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_02: No, if it was about food safety, you couldn't buy it, you couldn't give it to your kids, and you couldn't give it away if it was really about food safety, but it's not about food safety.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's about shackling.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, it is, it is.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is crazy.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_00: You you know, I was thinking as you're talking, it's kind of crazy to me that we have to spend all this time, thought, and effort to opt, church, try to opt ourselves out of the systems instead of like the system I think should be created where you have a choice to opt in if you want to be in it.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like leave everybody alone, and then if the people want this added under the guise of quote unquote safety or whatever their reason, then they opt themselves into it.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_02: And and and that that's that's the that's the critical argument that I'm making.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because in general, the Maha movement is trying to regulate out the things they don't like.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that that's the general thematically.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's can we regulate out the things we don't like?
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, that is certainly one approach, and these are friends, and I'm not I'm not but that that is a very uh top-down uh whatever big government.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_02: It it it it's thematically, it's the same.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_02: Thematically, it's the same as saying let's let's not allow raw milk because it's dangerous.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's the same philosophical thing.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_02: Let's outlaw glyphosate because it's dangerous.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, well, let's outlaw um raw milk because it's dangerous, and let's outlaw Uh let's outlaw um unvaccinated kids because they're dangerous.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, that that is such an all-consuming philosophical um uh place to solve problems is let's outlaw that.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_02: And and and I'm simply saying from from a strategic standpoint, instead of sitting around here and figuring out what we're gonna outlaw, let's let's allow uh let's allow a parallel universe, a parallel choice to exist for those who want to opt out.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody nobody has to nobody has to leave mainstream, you know, mainstream thought.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to leave there, but for those of us who do want to leave it, let us leave it.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_02: When Peter Bain wrote um, oh, what's a book?
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um Permaculture, the permaculture handbook, that's what it is.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um the most profound sentence in there is the most important thing to preserve in times of epochal change is to protect the minority to be able to do what they want to do.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I think everybody understands we are in a time of epochal change.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think we all sense it, we feel it.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, from AI to data centers to, you know, glyphosate to whatever to Maha.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_02: We're in a time of epochal change, and the most important thing to preserve in times of epochal change is the ability of the minor minority to engage in non-mainstream activity and thinking.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's where the real solutions come from.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_02: They come from the lunatic fringe.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_02: You're not going to get real solutions from the status quo.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_02: They're all about circing the circling the wagons and making sure that we don't get taken.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so the the freedom, the liberty-freedom um theme is is completely different thematically than than the mainstream solutional philosophy.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of more of a mob mentality.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I mean the founders warned us against that as well.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, and that feeds into why also, and I don't think they're consciously doing this, but even subconsciously, you need the people to be afraid, right?
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_00: You you do.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_00: You you need them to be like, oh, this is too big of a problem for us to solve.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we need somebody else to help fix this for us, and you need to kind of keep them in that state of fear, and then they will go, they're more likely to go along with a kind of a mom mentality or uh here, just come one blanket solution for everybody, you know, and opt all of us into it, even though we don't want to go.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's right, that's right.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, listen, we're out of time, and um, and so here's here's my question um for our for our listeners.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_02: If you're a farmer, I've got two.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_02: If you're a farmer producing something, what is something that you would like to be able to produce and sell that you currently can't?
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_02: That you know, that that's illegal?
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_02: What what would you what item would you jump in on?
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um a lot of this will be value-added stuff, but what would you jump in on if you could?
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_02: And on the other end, the consumer end, and of course farmers are we're we don't we buy stuff too, um, is what would you like to buy that's currently not available because of uh because of the food police?
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_02: What would you like to buy that's currently not available?
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_02: Give us some ideas, and I'm sure we'll get everything from fruit cake to chicken pot pie to butter and cheese and whatever.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_02: Great, great stuff.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Cena.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_02: Glad you were able to join us from your dad's office there in California.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_02: Hope you have a safe trip home.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_02: And everybody listening, thank you for joining us on another episode of Beyond Labels.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_02: And we look forward to visiting with you again next week.