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The Episode Every Enneagram Six Needs to Hear · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Does your inner critic feel more like a committee of voices?
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do you happen to have hyper awareness of your surroundings and an uncanny ability to know what to do when things fall apart?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: If so, you'll appreciate today's conversation as my guest, Rachel Vautier, shares about motherhood from the perspective as a type six.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Enneagram sixes are often labeled as loyalist.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: And while this is one of their character traits, there is so much more beneath the surface.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's why this month I am sharing stories from each Enneagram type and their perspective on motherhood, spiritual growth, and what is really going on inside their beautiful minds.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: For this motherhood and Enneagram series, I've invited my personal friends, the ones who've sat in my living room week in and week out, minus our quarantine months, of course, and have gone through my customized Enneagram coaching sessions for moms.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: In this episode, Rachel is going to share her mistyping journey and how the Enneagram is helping her navigate raising littles and how it reminds her that she has much to offer to the world around her.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: We also end up diving deep into the struggle for a six when it comes to battling the what-if thinking, especially when this plays out in her fears for her children and even in her marriage.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Rachel also shares what it looks like to make better and more confident decisions as a type six.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: We also dive into the concept of being aware and being prepared.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's brilliant.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Don't miss this part of the conversation.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: By the way, I've never done anything like this before, but we've been having conversations on the socials, and it's apparent that some of you are feeling a little stressed about the holidays.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: But this year I want you to take back Christmas.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to be able to savor the sacred this holiday season, even in light of this crazy year.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: For a small investment, you can be part of a five-day de-stress the holiday event from November 16th through the 20th.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be going live each day with practical advice and spiritual wisdom to help you eliminate the overwhelm this Christmas.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: You can find out more in the show notes.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, my name is Amy Wicks, and I love to talk about the gospel message your heart was created to hear.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a Christian Enneagram coach for Mops who loves to share resources which help you be confident that you are the best mom for your kids.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a mountain mama who somehow ended up on a golden sack in the Midwest.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: I was overwhelmed by motherhood, and I struggled to understand my true motivations.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: But the Lord didn't let me stay there.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: He helped me turn those challenging moments of motherhood into a wholehearted decision to get intentional with my faith, my marriage, and my kids.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: I share a broken-hearted perspective with story, but with wholehearted purpose and plan so you can live a life full of courage and abundance.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Think of this podcast as your on-the-go mom pal and friend who can't help but talk about Jesus and the Enneagram.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: So get to that pile of laundry, or hit the treadmill, or load up the kids in the car for that grocery run.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Get ready to be encouraged and challenged while you listen.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm so excited to have you here.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to pick your brain about everything as it relates to living as a type six.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I probably a type six is in probably my smaller like circle of friends.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't know as many type sixes.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then I say that and then I start thinking, I'm like, well, actually, maybe I do.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like you're one of the few that I know really well.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I love um, I just think you articulate things so clearly and so good.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you thank you for saying that.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's so true.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I also see you living in confidence in who God made you to be.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a really beautiful thing.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a gift that you can offer to other fellow type six.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: I got to have you on my living room couch and in my home, and we've sat across the table from one another.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I know about your Enneagram journey from the outside looking in, but share with us your journey, your process, because it's been several years, and so maybe you can't tell us every detail, but kind of give us a big picture of what it was like to discover that oh, I lead as a type six, and I am proud of it.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: I remember at the like towards the beginning, just kind of getting, you know, hearing it like a bug in your ear about the Enneagram.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, whatever, that's just more personality tests, so to, you know, put me in a box or something like that, and kind of give people a reason to say, oh, well, you're you're this, you're that, you know.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't really think much about it.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: And when we started doing the small group, and that kind of like came up a little bit more, and it seemed like, okay, well, maybe I'll kind of take a look at it.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember doing the test, and it came out as a two, I believe.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm, that doesn't really feel like it fits.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Again, just like whatever, it doesn't matter, it's not, it's not real.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I like it again, and I was like, okay, looked into some of the other options, like that there are other test results that came up, and one of them was a four.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of looked into that and I'm like, okay, I can kind of see how some of these things are here that are uh ways that I respond to things, you know, ways that I react, and okay, only that does sound like me.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: So for a while, you know, I was like, okay, that you mean that must be it.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought that I was a four for quite some time.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because And you're also very artistic and creative, and I think that naturally there people go, oh, I'm a creative, I'm an artist, I must beat as a type four, which you know is just a misnomer.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's not true.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: That that was pretty much the number one reason I thought that I was a four was because I'm just you know naturally more creative and I love making things and big feeler, you know.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized, you know, like um that was pretty much the only thing that really put me in that category.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought that was, oh, because I have a lot of feelings and because I like to draw.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, I'm you know, just the kid in the corner who likes to draw and cries a lot.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I thought.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was just convinced that that was me for such for such a long time, but it just didn't quite feel right.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it wasn't until you and I had a conversation where I was kind of going through like a hard time, a lot of things that I was dealing with from my childhood that I never really dealt with before, or like I had, but not in such a deep way.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: I remember we were talking and all of these things were kind of coming up, and I and I just kept saying, I think I remember saying, you know, I just never really felt safe.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: I never feel like really felt as though I could be myself without fear, you know, consequences or you know, that sort of thing.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a lot of that just coming from just being bullied in school, you know, that that sort of jazz.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember you mentioning, like, okay, well, you know, to be safe is it's kind of like the heart cry of the six.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I kind of looked into it when you gave me the resources for that, and I realized that that was pretty much it felt like I was going home.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm like, okay, wow, wow makes a lot more sense.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it was then I started sort of realizing that all of the things I thought about myself that were true, like, oh, well, you know, I'm creative and I'm a big feeler, they were really just because I I refused to believe what God said about me, that I'm actually really smart.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and that I'm I actually do lead with my with my head more than anything.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, constantly, I never realized how I'm constantly analyzing, thinking, trying to think three steps ahead or trying to prepare for this and that.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not like super organized as a person, but love to figure things out, analyze things, and pick things apart.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: And never really thought about that of myself as that way, because you know, when people are like, oh, well, you're really good at this thing, you're like, oh, okay, well, I must be really good at that thing.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Especially when just the kids I was around were just really mean and were like, oh, well, you're good at this, you know, all these other things.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: You're not smart or whatever.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I like never thought I was smart enough to do X, Y, Z.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that was like a big thing that was really, really cool.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Stepping into this was like a lot of times you hear about the sticks, it's like that they're just really anxious, really suspicious.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying I'm not suspicious.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, you don't look for the exits in every store that you go into.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a thing.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's a thing.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: One day everybody will realize that I'm right until that time.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: We will have wished we were with you.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: You see.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's real.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: That was one thing that I thought was really cool.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like stepping into that was the thing that I love about being a six is I'm like, I'm a really good friend.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a really good and I know what to do, like in a situation, because I've probably thought about that situation five before it even happened, you know.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm ready.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm ready.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: You're already know what to say in a conversation, but I know what to do when things fall apart.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love it so much.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that was, I think, the the journey.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I actually remember exactly where I was when we had our conversation about the just the kind of the painful situation that you were in, and suddenly questioning, okay, am I really, you know, do I really lead as a type for what's going on here?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And um, because I was on a friend's deck at their lake house.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I had like a beautiful, no, I had like beautiful surroundings, but it was one of those fun moments because it's something that I had thought of before.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And as a coach, you can encourage someone to challenge where they are at or what type they lead as, but it's really such a unique personal journey to have that discovery.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: When you were just so receptive and teachable and you immediately were like, Okay, well, I'll look into it.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's easy to come across as defensive and everything like that.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: I saw for you as you stepped into that, it was like your healing process sped up.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of almost like a turning point where I was like, oh, and it kind of like a light just clicked on.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Where I was like, that makes a lot of sense.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, no, now I see this.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and then there's that too, that thing that I forgot that had happened 20 years ago.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that was a thing too.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And now I see why, you know, why that bothered me in that way, that so much, you know, that kind of thing.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think even as I've been working with not only the mom's group in my living room on my couch and all of that, but then also the people that I coach through Zoom.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of times, especially in that first lesson where we are talking about the messages that we may have heard our whole life, really what we're articulating is touching on that childhood wound.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not really something anybody deliberately did, but it's the lens that we were looking through as a child.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so therefore, we perceived life's events from that message, and then we heard that message and again and again whether our mom actually said it or, you know, or a sibling.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like we just that was our perception and that our interpretation.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm kind of curious for you, as you've gone through the material and as you've processed then fully leading as a type six.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think that's kind of fun because we've had different stages here on the podcast in this of like kind of new a few months into it, a couple years into it, or mistyped yourself a few times, which I have mistyped myself a couple times.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, what was one of maybe the bigger aha moments in the material of just maybe as it relates to motherhood or even in yourself with your marriage, things like that?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: The biggest thing was like, oh, oh, that makes a lot of sense was realizing that the six is constantly thinking about everything that needs to be done.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like they're always thinking of uh energy exactly, always, and you're just constantly thinking of the what if if this doesn't get done, or I need to do this because this, this, and this kind of always thinking of like everything that needs to be better now.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: That you're not even necessarily better, but like what needs to be done in this moment.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, what needs to be safer.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: It was just kind of a oh, that's in all of the areas of my life that I do this, you know.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Things that I need to do around the house, you know, because I stay home with my kids.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking, well, there's not just the the usual stuff of like, oh, I need to give my kids snacks and make dinner, but then there's oh, and I I haven't cleaned and the carpet's looking really bad, and oh, but I also need to do this.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: And if I don't, then what if the baby picks something up and puts it in her mouth?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: If I don't give my kid really nutritious food, he's gonna get sick and he's not gonna be healthy as he gets older.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Those sorts of things.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like it snowballs really fast.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Even in, you know, my relationship with my husband, it would kind of get into like a swirl.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: We call it a swirl, where I would be thinking about he has he's been a little cranky lately.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, what if he's you know bored of me or well, we need to talk about this now, we need to deal with this now because if we don't, it's just gonna fester and it's gonna get worse, and who knows what's gonna happen in five years, you know.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're walking down, we're gonna end up in divorce court, and you're like exactly like I don't think we're it's so quick, you know, that kind of thing.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to find an apartment, and then like I go to talk to him about it, and he's like, What are you talking about?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like not that big a deal.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's kind of like that thing that where you feel overwhelmed like all the time about the what-ifs, and and that made a big difference understanding that, realizing that was something that I did.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: We all have our triggers that cause us to spiral downward, and I think this is a really good contrast because there is a common mistyping between ones, twos, and sixes, because there's an element that they're in the same stance, which is the interpersonal communication style.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: So they're all three are in the dutiful stance.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: They also struggle with being thinking repressed.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: And one of this this takes forms, and the greatest similarity between a one and a six is a one has an inner critic, but the six has an inner committee.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's not just this one negative voice, but it's going, what would these people say if kind of in just talking about the what-if scenario.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: So has there been something in particular that you tend or you used to invite the inner committee that you have learned, oh, you know what?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I can trust that the Lord is the most important voice that I need to listen to and that he has instilled in me the wisdom and the insight to be able to make a good decision.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's definitely not perfect, but on the journey to kind of closing the door to the inner community committee, uh, on how it pertains to my son in particular and how I raise him.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: He's a very fiery, very wild, very passionate kid.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: And he's vivacious.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Very vivacious.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And he has such a sweet heart and he cares very deeply and surprisingly empathetic for a three-year-old.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, he's he's intense.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: We say he's like a tornado with arms.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: He's just he's a lot.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: He's a lot, he's go, go, go all the time.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was difficult when you know, people are always gonna give you their opinions on stuff, and they would say, Oh, well, he is really intense, or oh, does he talk like that all you know?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Does he talk so much all the time?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Yes, and that's our normal, I think.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, kind of plants those seeds, or when they're like, Oh, well, he's really this, really that, you know, whatever, just say as if they know him.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and people saying, Well, you should be doing this, you should be doing that.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, those they plant seeds and those little sound bites just kind of like roll around in your head.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then when you go to make a decision, you know, when I'm like, Okay, so we gotta, you know, fortunately got a discipline and I'm doing it because I love you.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Let's, you know, and then going forward, how am I going to do this discipline?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's specifically in that area.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: How am I gonna discipline my kid?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: And instead of following my gut and my instinct and like knowing, like, okay, no, I know this is right.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen how he responds to this, this is what the Lord has given us for like the key to his heart.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And instead of doing that, I'm thinking, oh, well, all these people are like, no, no, no, this is what I have to do, this is what I have to do, this is what I have to do, according to whom, you know, like the people who don't live in my home, the people who don't like care for my son every day like I do, who don't know him like I do.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's like that inner committee almost feels like it's not even your own voice, it's just built above everybody else's voice.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: And instead of trusting that God has given me the tools, and then not only like if if I don't know what I'm doing, that I'm not supposed to just be perfect, I can go to him and be like, Holy Spirit, what do I do in this situation?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: How do I love my kid?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Which I pray a lot every day.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah many times a day.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, Jesus, what do I do?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus helped.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's so good.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's been the number one place, and specifically, I think, dealing with my son and in the place of discipline.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, our society tends to push this voice of they.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they said, Yeah.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that would be really amplified for a type six.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: It kind of falls in line with a type one who hears the shoulds a lot.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: And six is similarly, but it's more that, like you said, it's kind of a collective voice of different people.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so instead of just even having one critic, I think what's hard for a six is that there is multiple voices coming in.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that can feel very confusing and overwhelming.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: And suddenly to be able to hear your own voice and God's voice is a challenge.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like instead of there being a right and a wrong way, it's kind of I'm thinking, oh, how am I gonna go forward and do this?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then I hear one member of the committee is like, well, you can't do too much TV because they'll, you know, it'll rot their brain.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then another one is saying, Oh, but you know, you need to do this and you need to do that.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of like every thing I'm thinking, and there's just more and more of these voices that come in and say, Well, you can't do this, you can't do that.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then I feel like I'm stuck, like I'm trying to navigate a maze of options and ways that I should go.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: And every option I pick is wrong because then in five years, your kid's gonna be swearing at you, or you know, or like if you do this, your kid's gonna be dumb.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, No, I don't want dumb kids.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you don't have dumb kids.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, even if I did, they would you know, I would still love them because like who cares?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, yeah.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like you, you want the best, you want to do right by your kids.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: You want to do right by your family, and that's what I want to do.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you're right, it does start to feel as though I can't even hear my own voice or God's voice and what I'm supposed to be doing in that moment.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think part of closing that door to the committee is realizing there is no right or wrong.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: There's not gonna be a perfect, it's not even like a one or two options, like right or wrong.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's like if I do this, then none of these bad things will happen, you know, like the perfect option.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: If I stick to this, if I told a line and I'm not too much on one side or the other, then my kids will be whole and perfect and all that.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that's such a pressure that I'm putting on myself because I'm so afraid of something, you know.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm afraid of the future.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm afraid that they're gonna come back to me and be like, Well, you did this in the same way that I would want to grace for when I screw up.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: I want to offer that to them too, but I have to offer that to myself first.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, being afraid that I'm going to royally screw up my kids because, you know, none of us is right, none of us is perfect.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not Jesus.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, nope, and we're not supposed to be.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: We really dialed into that when we were kind of talking and exploring mother wounds about how perfection is not to be had on this side of heaven, but that's where the Lord comes in and fills those gaps and is able to not only encounter our heart as we're dealing with maybe pain from our parents, but he can encounter our kids' heart as we inadvertently don't do things the exact right way because it's just impossible for us.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things I wanted to talk on or speak to, or or just even highlight here, is that a lot of times sixism, we joked about, you know, you're gonna go to Target and you're the friend that I want to go to Target with if some crazy thing happens, because you'll know where to go and you'll know what to do, and you'll be ready and prepared.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: But you are not someone that you don't exude fearfulness or a crazy amount of anxiety.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I know a lot of that is in your head, but but there's also because I know you are passionate about equipping women in self-defense, in protecting themselves and caretaking, which I think is like, of course, Rachel does, and she's passionate about that.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like that makes so much sense.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: If you're talking to a fellow six or a room full of sixes, what would you say in maybe pushing back through some of your fears and walking in courage and strength?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's not really confidence, it's a gift from the Lord, and like confidence is something we can walk in through the power of the Holy Spirit, but it's courage.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we kind of put in kind of to and participate with.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, what does that look like for you?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: And how would you encourage others as they're looking to walk in greater courage in their life, whether it's motherhood and relationships, and even in this crazy season that we're in in 2020?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: It sort of depends on the subject, you know, like self defense and physical protection of oneself.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like kind of like almost like it comes more.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Naturally for me.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that might be because of being, you know, like the subtype of the counterphobic.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm if I'm afraid of something, I'm usually gonna go for it and I'm gonna like go toward it to eliminate it from hurting myself and my family.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm like gonna go right after it, head on.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: Don't mess.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no, no, no, no.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: No room for you.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like there's a thing that I'm afraid of.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'd rather it be afraid of me.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: You want to turn the tables, yeah.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: So when it comes to, you know, specifically women's self-defense, I think it's really important for women to remember, like at least be reminded, because I think we tend to forget that our natural bent as a woman is to be accommodating.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not like a bad or good thing, it's just this the thing.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: There are people out there, you know, individual personalities that are more go-getters that are like, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna push and I'm gonna do all that kind of thing.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's more people who are on the opposite side of that that are just kind of instead of making a space for themselves, they're like, I'll just kind of fill in what's available.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: I realized for like a long time that that was my personality, that that's just kind of naturally how I was bent.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's more common in women than it is in men.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: You can think like biologically, the way that we're designed is like our bodies are made to accommodate a life.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like in birth, in nursing, like our bodies were made to accommodate in that way.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, it's just my own personal like pet theory that I think that is just kind of like more of a naturally woman thing.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so what I tell people who are like, oh, well, I could never be violent, I could never do this, I could never do that, is telling them like you can do your best to prepare for what's gonna happen.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing is that it may never happen or it might happen.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and you can't be constantly thinking about, especially in the six, you can't constantly be thinking about the what if if it's gonna happen.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: All you can do is when it happens, don't accommodate.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of, oh well, I'm just gonna kind of try to move out of the way, I'm gonna move out of the way, you go for it.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: It almost feels sometimes like it is counterintuitive, you know?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you have a fight or flight and your natural response is for flight, you know, that's good.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's sometimes in your life when you have to fight, like you just can't get away from it.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: And there's certain dangers that women experience in the world, certain things that we have to face.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: And part of that is if you meet a person who is trying to take from you in a physical sense, in an emotional sense, whatever, there's a person who does not understand the concept of your humanity and your boundaries.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: So they're gonna try to take from you.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: And your natural response might be to accommodate.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: It might be like, oh, you know, you just giggle, you smile, and you try to like brush it off.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: But that's the problem, is sometimes we can't do that.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like that person, if they have it in their head, that they're gonna exert their power over you.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: You have to then in that moment, instead of cowering, instead of moving back, instead of accommodating, is you don't let them take that space.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: You hold that boundary, you hold that line.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: It feels weird because you're like, I don't know what to do, even if sometimes I've been prepared for it and I don't know what to do.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that's the number one thing for us for sixes is to we're constantly thinking about the what-ifs.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then sometimes when that situation comes, we're like, oh no, oh no, here it is.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: And we're paralyzed by all of our fears becoming reality.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: When there's a difference between being prepared, being aware, and being scared.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something that I've really had to work through a lot.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: A huge part of me being more confident, more courageous in that way is actually just taking self-defense classes.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I take Krav Maga classes several times a week.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: I've been doing that for two years.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: I did it halfway through my pregnancy.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's just given me a lot more confidence, knowing like, okay, these are situations in which I might find myself.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the number one thing that learning from that was is just to be aggressive, to allow that thing that the Lord has put inside you to be like, no, no, no, I'm holding the boundary.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I see, so you're taking the the what if committee, and instead of just letting it ruminate, you're moving forward.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're pushing past it and you're doing something, you're creating a boundary where you know I'm not gonna just accommodate.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you've declared that in not accommodating, you're gonna equip yourself to be able to face it, not just do the dutiful thing and to go along with it, but to hold the boundary and whatever holding your boundary looks like, you prepare for it.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so, specifically in a physical sense, this is that idea of defense, actual like physical defense, but then also emotionally and spiritually.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: What are we doing instead of the what if, what if my child hates me and they have to go to years of therapy because of this one crazy thing I did.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, you push past that and go, well, what can I do to be proactive to help my child to engage with their emotions and prepare them the best I can?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then hold firm to that boundary of like, I'm not gonna let that lie come in that's gonna tell me that I'm gonna cause my child's pain.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, I'm gonna let truth come in.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's your boundary.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And when you walk in that confidence of I am the best mom for this job, I am the best mom for my child, and God set me up to be this child's parents, and I'm fully equipped and able with his help, then that just that's the game changer.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: Then you're not like sitting there ruminating, going, but what if this and what if that?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, this person said this and this person said that.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's just such a beautiful illustration of that walking into that counterpoint for a six of going, just because that's how I'm wired, the Lord has then equipped me to be prepared.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's not about just thinking what if for the sake of fear, but the what if so you can be ready.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um which I think is it's like you have those fears that come in and you're like, okay, well, I'm afraid of this.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: What am I gonna do about it?
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you can't do anything about it, then at that point, like I just have to tell myself, okay, but if I can't do anything about it, it's just gonna be like, let's just let it go out the window.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it is in the Lord's hands.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: And ultimately you can always come like I don't think it's always bad to walk down the worst case scenario.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think that if we allow ourselves to go there, then we can, as a believer, as as putting our full trust and confidence in Christ, then we can go, well, in the end, he wins.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: In the end, the hope that I have is that he is my defender and my protector, and nothing, you know, can touch me for those who are in Christ.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, as far as you know, spiritually and everything.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: That is just such a good thing.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad that we had time to touch on that because I wanted to highlight, I think that's a beautiful message for those who lead as a type six and and really empowering, and I know that's important to your heart.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I have done is that for each of our conversations, we do a little bit of a rapid fire to round this out and to end our time together.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, the first rapid fire question is in a phrase or in a word, what does it look like for a type six to flourish?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: I would say confidence in the plan.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, but trusting your gut at the same time.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: That one's a keeper for sure.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Next is what soul care routine has made you feel like you're thriving as a mom and just in who God made you to be?
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: I would honestly say being in my martial arts class, being in Kraft Maga, being able to like get sort of like all of that pent-up energy you have during the day, something something about the physical movements that you're just like, I'm an adult woman and I have power the Lord has instilled in me, and I'm not just a snack dispenser.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Not just a snack dispenser, because that sometimes feels real.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Especially when you have a little six-month-old and a three-year-old.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh that's awesome.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing is what has been a book that you've either read in the past or you're currently reading that you would go, oh, I think this would be really helpful to fellow type sixes, or it just it spoke to you from your personality lens.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's really funny.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: I would say The Attributes of God by A.W.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: Tozer.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's one of my favorites.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's so good.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's so good.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: So good.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's something about I think reading about the attributes of God is that as a six, it's kind of like redirecting my mind back on the power and the eternity and the ultimate wisdom of the Lord.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Reading about how like God is always in control, how God is never taken aback, He's never surprised by anything, He's always in control and He's ultimate good.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a place where you can remind yourself, oh yeah, that is true.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it gives me a place to feel peace.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of those books you can go to again and again, and it never gets old because it's basically just like reminding you who God is.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's just turning you back to the attributes of God over and over again.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, reminding me that he's all powerful, he's completely in control, he's the wisest, he's the smartest, he's all he always has this plan.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: He's never surprised by anything, and he's always good.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not just like, oh, someone's in control and it's not me.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, oh, someone's in someone knows exactly what's gonna happen and it's not good.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the ultimate good is in ultimate control.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a place where I feel as a six, you can find peace knowing that even if you don't have your plan or if your plan doesn't go, then his will always work.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, that's good.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, let's just talk about those dead authors for a second and how good they are.
• 31:21
  unknown: Yeah.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: They're just so rich.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: I read a quote the other day about how the only problem about new books is that it takes up time to read the old books again and again.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because there is something about that that especially in the day of over information, we have so much access to so many things.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: But then my favorites, you know, I go back to Tozer and Murray and you know, Bonhoeffer and all of those C.S.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Lewis, so many good ones that really just are just timeless in that.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think going back to the character of God and resting our faith in that that ultimately, no matter what comes our way, no matter what if scenario, he's there and he's in control.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think, oh, it's just so good.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Rachel, you did a fabulous job, of course.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: I had no doubt.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: And this is super fun, and I'm excited.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's been great talking to you.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to share this conversation.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's gonna bless a lot of people.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Amy.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: Rachel had so many truth bombs for all of us moms, and I think if you happen to lead as a type six, you may especially appreciate her wisdom.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so grateful Rachel was willing to share with us.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: The healthy Enneagram sixes in my life show me loyalty, awareness, and courage.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: If you like this episode, I bet you have a friend or two who would as well.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: Share this episode or take a snapshot of this episode and share it with your friends on Instagram stories.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: It would mean the world to me to have you take a minute and leave a five star review so others can learn about the show.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: And in case you don't believe it yet, you are the mom for the job, and I am here to champion you to love it.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, continue to pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for a simply wholehearted life.