Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / BOMBSHELL: Accused Double Killer Alex Murdaugh to Walk Free?

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BOMBSHELL: Accused Double Killer Alex Murdaugh to Walk Free? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Justice delayed, but is it
0:15
Speaker 1: justice denied? In the last hours we learned the details
0:20
Speaker 1: behind the charges, the formal indictment against legal Air Alex Murdoch.
0:28
Speaker 1: I mean, you see, Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank
0:30
Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation and
0:33
Speaker 1: Sirius XM one eleven. First of all, take a listen
0:36
Speaker 1: to our friends at WMBF. It took thirteen months to
0:41
Speaker 1: get to this point for these grand jury proceedings. It
0:44
Speaker 1: took all about an hour for them to indict Alec
0:47
Speaker 1: Murdoch on two counts of murder and two counts of
0:49
Speaker 1: possession of a firearm during a violent crime, that is
0:53
Speaker 1: in the case of his wife and son. His defense
0:56
Speaker 1: lawyers deny all accusations of violence crimes against their client
1:01
Speaker 1: and have requested a speedy trial moving forward. Now. I
1:05
Speaker 1: spoke with Charlie Condon, former Attorney General in South Carolina,
1:09
Speaker 1: and he says that we could see that big trial
1:12
Speaker 1: here in Colleton County as early as this year, but
1:16
Speaker 1: there is something that could delay these proceedings. This is
1:20
Speaker 1: a death eligible case, as I would call it. It's
1:23
Speaker 1: the murder of two or more in a course of
1:27
Speaker 1: conduct being alleged. So the Attorney General, I would think
1:31
Speaker 1: sooner than later, would make the decision or whether or
1:33
Speaker 1: not to make this a capital case. Now, no word
1:36
Speaker 1: from that office if they do intend to seek the
1:40
Speaker 1: highest punishment, the highest punishment the death penalty. At South
1:44
Speaker 1: Carolina still has the death penalty. Now what are they
1:49
Speaker 1: talking about? Why is one case eligible for the death
1:54
Speaker 1: penalty while others may not be. That is all discretionary
1:59
Speaker 1: to the elected district attorney whether or not that office
2:03
Speaker 1: will seek the death penalty. In order for a death
2:05
Speaker 1: penalty to be sought, there must be special circumstances. What
2:10
Speaker 1: does that mean? It is codified. In other words, it
2:13
Speaker 1: is in the criminal code. What are special circumstances? For instance,
2:18
Speaker 1: as we see in this case, mass murder equals more
2:23
Speaker 1: than one dead body. There are other circumstances such as
2:28
Speaker 1: lying in wait for pecuniary or money gain, shooting a
2:33
Speaker 1: police officer or a public official. There are many special
2:38
Speaker 1: circumstances aggravated factors that lead to the death penalty. But
2:43
Speaker 1: for right now we know there's an indictment. Again, thank
2:47
Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation and
2:49
Speaker 1: Serious X one eleven straight out to high profile lawyer
2:54
Speaker 1: joining us out of Jacksonville. Former FBI agent and author
2:58
Speaker 1: of a rest Proof yourself, Dale Carson, you're the high
3:02
Speaker 1: profile defense attorney. Explain the charges now leveled against Alex murnagh. Well, basically,
3:09
Speaker 1: there are four in the indictment which were returned by
3:12
Speaker 1: the grand jury. Charges him with two counts of homicide
3:15
Speaker 1: and two counts of possession of a firearm during the
3:18
Speaker 1: commission of a felony. And of course these are extraordinarily
3:21
Speaker 1: serious charges. The most critical charge probably is the charge
3:26
Speaker 1: of shooting his wife in the back, which turns it
3:29
Speaker 1: into a capital felony because she would have suffered watching
3:34
Speaker 1: her son die. Absolutely, of course, to do that, you've
3:37
Speaker 1: got to prove the order of the shootings. And joining
3:41
Speaker 1: me another special guest from that jurisdiction, doctor Michelton Dupree,
3:46
Speaker 1: forensic pathologist, former medical examiner, former detective and author of
3:50
Speaker 1: homicide investigation Field Guy. We have her with us today
3:54
Speaker 1: for a reason. She is there in South Carolina and
3:58
Speaker 1: is an eminent authority on this issue. To doctor Michelle Dupree,
4:03
Speaker 1: Doctor Dupree, it's going to be really hard, if not impossible,
4:09
Speaker 1: to determine the order of the two murders. Who was
4:11
Speaker 1: murdered first Paul or Mackie and then to your life.
4:14
Speaker 1: It may may be very difficult. We have to look
4:18
Speaker 1: at the scene in this case because if they were
4:20
Speaker 1: shot in close proximity in time to each other, it
4:24
Speaker 1: will be difficult. But if there was some distance between
4:26
Speaker 1: the time one was shot or the other, then the
4:28
Speaker 1: blood is going to tell us that they were both outside.
4:31
Speaker 1: That's going to make a difference. But we want to
4:33
Speaker 1: know how liquefied that blood is in the surrounding area.
4:37
Speaker 1: Dodge dupre please, Yeah, Okay, let's get in reality, not
4:42
Speaker 1: make believe fantasyland the way we want it to be.
4:46
Speaker 1: We already know that the blood had begun to dry
4:51
Speaker 1: and coagulate by the time EMTs got there. We know
4:56
Speaker 1: that there's no telling how long they had been dead.
5:00
Speaker 1: We also know rained that it rained that night on occasion.
5:04
Speaker 1: Is this Matt Harris, Yes, it is Matt. That's a
5:06
Speaker 1: really important part. Matt Harrison. I'm so glad you reminded
5:10
Speaker 1: me of that. Matt Harris is with us everyone. He
5:13
Speaker 1: is the co host of Matt Ramona showed, W, L
5:16
Speaker 1: and K, and he is the star of a hit podcast,
5:19
Speaker 1: The Murdi Family Murders Impact of Influence. Thank you for
5:24
Speaker 1: adding that in so, doctor Michelle Dupree, I'm just speaking
5:28
Speaker 1: for experience having tried mass murder before. You can't You're
5:32
Speaker 1: not unless you've got an eyewitness or a video camera.
5:36
Speaker 1: I mean, be realistic with me, doctor Dupree. We're not
5:39
Speaker 1: going to know who was shot first. We might have
5:41
Speaker 1: a theory unproven that very well may be the case making.
5:45
Speaker 1: We may not be able to tell what the Maggie
5:47
Speaker 1: are Polt was shot first. It's really going to depend
5:49
Speaker 1: on the circumstance, especially with Matt Harris telling us that
5:52
Speaker 1: it was raining. How is that going to play into
5:55
Speaker 1: how do we determine who was shot first. It's going
5:57
Speaker 1: to destroy some of the evidence. It's also going to
5:59
Speaker 1: make the absolutely go ahead. Well, but it's going to
6:02
Speaker 1: depend on how much right and when as the timing
6:05
Speaker 1: of that right. So deal Carson all of this. The
6:08
Speaker 1: order of the murders was to respond to your comment
6:12
Speaker 1: that this would be a death penalty case because Maggie
6:15
Speaker 1: was shot second after she witnessed her son suffer and die.
6:19
Speaker 1: Disagree this is going to be a death penalty case.
6:22
Speaker 1: And I predict it will be because you have more
6:25
Speaker 1: than one dead body. That equals and aggravating circumstance, a
6:31
Speaker 1: special circumstance through which the state can seek the death penalty.
6:35
Speaker 1: Now do we need more than one, No, we do not,
6:38
Speaker 1: but it helps to have more than one because these
6:40
Speaker 1: special circumstances have to be proven to a jury beyond
6:44
Speaker 1: a reasonable doubt. Okay, So you've got mass murder, two
6:48
Speaker 1: dead bodies. You've got lying in weight because we are
6:52
Speaker 1: now learning that Alex Mordote lured Maggie there. Okay, and
6:57
Speaker 1: not only that, we have pecuniary interest. When you murder
7:03
Speaker 1: someone Delle Carson for a money motive. Why is that
7:07
Speaker 1: a special circumstance Deale Carson. Well, because it argues for premeditation,
7:12
Speaker 1: since you're going to lose something, in this case money
7:16
Speaker 1: or property and in fact social status. When we think
7:20
Speaker 1: about it, you're of course doing it in order to
7:24
Speaker 1: clear those things up. So there's a premeditated aspect to it.
7:29
Speaker 1: But of course the defendant is arguing that he wasn't
7:33
Speaker 1: there and didn't do it, and certainly wouldn't because he
7:36
Speaker 1: loved the people that he is alleged to have killed.
7:39
Speaker 1: You know, that's a really interesting thing that you just said.
7:43
Speaker 1: Dotor Sherry shorts with me. Forensic psychologist. She knows her
7:48
Speaker 1: stuff people. You can find her at Panthermedigation dot com.
7:51
Speaker 1: She's the author of Criminal Behavior and Where a Law
7:54
Speaker 1: and psychology intersect issues in legal psychology got a Sherry Shore,
8:00
Speaker 1: you know, Dell Carson said not just money at stake,
8:04
Speaker 1: but social status. He moved in some very rarefied circles.
8:09
Speaker 1: This Alex Murdog how the family had held onto the
8:13
Speaker 1: local prosecutor's position for a hundred years. And I believe
8:18
Speaker 1: that they unethically mixed. That you can't be the prosecutor
8:23
Speaker 1: and have a civil firm where you prosecute somebody and
8:27
Speaker 1: then you represent the victim to get money damages. That's
8:34
Speaker 1: completely wrong. But to think about having Maggie on his
8:39
Speaker 1: arm at all these soarets, and I've seen a picture
8:43
Speaker 1: of her and her minkstole and her jewels. You know,
8:46
Speaker 1: it makes me glad I married a hillbilly, and I
8:49
Speaker 1: hope my husband is glad he married a farm girl
8:52
Speaker 1: because we don't have this social status problem going on
8:55
Speaker 1: at all. Doctor Sherry sports. Yeah, it's true. There are
8:59
Speaker 1: a lot of people that place a great deal of
9:03
Speaker 1: a premium on appearing a certain way, and very often,
9:08
Speaker 1: not always, but very often, this is someone who may
9:12
Speaker 1: have narcissistic tendencies. I think we've seen a lot of
9:16
Speaker 1: because place. You know, I know what that means, because
9:20
Speaker 1: you've taught me what that means. Okay, and I know
9:22
Speaker 1: who narcissus was in great mythology. But when you say
9:26
Speaker 1: a narcissistic personality, simply put it, that means me, me me, me, me, me,
9:32
Speaker 1: me me. It's all about me. Forget the wife, the child,
9:37
Speaker 1: the family, the years and years of building a legal reputation.
9:42
Speaker 1: It's all down the crapper. It's all about him, that's right.
9:46
Speaker 1: And the other key element of somebody who is high
9:50
Speaker 1: in narcissism, and I don't know that he is or
9:52
Speaker 1: he isn't, but for someone who is, they have an
9:56
Speaker 1: egregious lack of empathy for others because it is all
10:00
Speaker 1: about them. That's the truth. Guys, take a listen to
10:02
Speaker 1: our friends a WTC. Everybody knew they were coming. We
10:06
Speaker 1: just waited for it. But again it was a cold
10:10
Speaker 1: hard brace when you heard about it. Attorney Eric Bland,
10:13
Speaker 1: addressing the most recent developments in the case against Alec Murdock.
10:17
Speaker 1: But this murder case is going to be circumstantial case.
10:20
Speaker 1: You know, the two witnesses are dead, Maggie and Parre dead.
10:24
Speaker 1: So Dick Carpoolian is a wonderful lawyer. It's going to
10:27
Speaker 1: end up being a battle of the experts. The States
10:29
Speaker 1: are going to have tremendous forensic experts and for his
10:32
Speaker 1: own clients, the Sadderfield family. Days like Thursday are particularly difficult.
10:36
Speaker 1: They relive everything every day, you know, every time there's
10:39
Speaker 1: a new news cycle. You know, I'm just thinking about
10:42
Speaker 1: what the victims are, the families of other murdog victims,
10:46
Speaker 1: allegend murdo victims are feeling right now. Time stories with
11:02
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, Bobby Chicone joining me twitty seven years FBI.
11:08
Speaker 1: You can find it at Bobby Chicon dot com and
11:11
Speaker 1: you can find them on Audible. It's incredible. But before
11:14
Speaker 1: I talk more about all of your minimni qualifications, Bobby Chikon,
11:18
Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to our friends
11:19
Speaker 1: at NBC. Two sources close to the case tell NBC
11:22
Speaker 1: News authorities have cell phone video that they believe puts
11:26
Speaker 1: him at the scene of the murders shortly before they
11:28
Speaker 1: took place, evidence that would appear to contradict his previous
11:32
Speaker 1: timeline of events. Murdoch's lawyers have said he was with
11:35
Speaker 1: his mother at the time of the killings and discovered
11:38
Speaker 1: the bodies when he returned home. Calling nine to one
11:41
Speaker 1: in response to the new indictment, Murdoch's attorneys say he
11:44
Speaker 1: did not have anything to do with the murders of
11:46
Speaker 1: Maggie and Paul, adding he loved them more than anything
11:49
Speaker 1: in the world. They go on to say the law
11:52
Speaker 1: enforcement quote prematurely concluded that Murdoch was responsible for their deaths.
11:57
Speaker 1: The South Carolina Attorney General has offered details on a
12:00
Speaker 1: possible motive for the murders. Number One Bobby Jacko on
12:04
Speaker 1: the state never has to prove motive. We don't have
12:06
Speaker 1: to go into the killer's mind and wander around and
12:09
Speaker 1: figure out why, why, ask why. The state has to
12:12
Speaker 1: prove jurisdiction and the crime. That's what they have to prove.
12:18
Speaker 1: So what do you make of this? You're the former
12:21
Speaker 1: fan with the FBI, What do you make of the
12:23
Speaker 1: fact that there is cell phone video placing murdog at
12:27
Speaker 1: the scene during the time window of the murders. Yeah,
12:32
Speaker 1: if you. Apparently this came about because the Sun was
12:35
Speaker 1: videotaping and taking photographs of a dog in one of
12:38
Speaker 1: those kennels, because he's babysitting for one of his friends dogs.
12:42
Speaker 1: And often, as they do, people who are babysitting for
12:44
Speaker 1: dogs will take video or photos and send them to
12:47
Speaker 1: the dog owner, making them feel better that the dog
12:50
Speaker 1: is okay. Well, apparently the Sun is there videotaping the
12:54
Speaker 1: dog and you actually hear Alex Murdoch walk up and
12:57
Speaker 1: start to talk in conversation with his wife. This completely
13:01
Speaker 1: blows away his quote airtight alibi of his defense attorney
13:05
Speaker 1: said upon initially when this case started. And that's why
13:08
Speaker 1: most of us roll our eyes every time we hear
13:11
Speaker 1: a defense attorney get on there and say my client
13:13
Speaker 1: has an airtight alibi. But this is what And that film,
13:16
Speaker 1: by the way, was just recently able to be unlost
13:19
Speaker 1: by authorities. So this videotape now putting Alex Murdock right
13:23
Speaker 1: at the scene and contradicting all of his previous statements
13:27
Speaker 1: about that evening, really did advance the case and is
13:30
Speaker 1: really kind of a bombshell in this case. Yeah, I
13:33
Speaker 1: want to talk about what we are just now hearing
13:36
Speaker 1: from Bobby Chicone. Bobby Chicone high profile as well, former
13:41
Speaker 1: fed with the FBI, Matt Harris. We also heard the
13:44
Speaker 1: name Dat Harpoulian. Who's that? That is one of Alex's attorneys.
13:49
Speaker 1: He is well known in the state and even nationally
13:52
Speaker 1: because he was the head of the Democratic National Party
13:55
Speaker 1: for a while, and South Carolina's a big mover in
13:58
Speaker 1: a shaker politically as well, been on both sides as
14:02
Speaker 1: a defense attorney and as a prosecutor. Without a doubt,
14:06
Speaker 1: I would take the most famous attorney in South Carolina.
14:09
Speaker 1: Can I ask you a question? Is he the one
14:11
Speaker 1: that was standing by Murlock after Murlog got himself shot
14:14
Speaker 1: in the head? Yes, who gave all those stories about
14:18
Speaker 1: how his brain injury and blah blah blah and all
14:21
Speaker 1: he had on was a band aid? Is that the
14:22
Speaker 1: same guy? That is the same guy? Oh? Okay, all right, Well,
14:26
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take everything you say right now from now
14:28
Speaker 1: on with a box assault, because one day, if this
14:33
Speaker 1: is the same lawyer, he's out saying, oh, you know,
14:36
Speaker 1: didn't he say there was a brain injury, Jackie. Didn't
14:39
Speaker 1: he say his client had a brain injury from the
14:42
Speaker 1: gunshot wound of the unknown assailant. Isn't that right, Matt Harris, Yeah, yes,
14:47
Speaker 1: he said that was a yes. No, that's cross examination,
14:52
Speaker 1: Matt Harris. You know what you're in for when you
14:54
Speaker 1: come on crime for us. So Matt, he says he's
14:56
Speaker 1: got a brain injury, and then low and behold, Alex
15:00
Speaker 1: morlog walks into court with a band aid on his head. Yes, okay,
15:05
Speaker 1: he could speak that timeline a little bit if he
15:08
Speaker 1: said that they saw him before nine o'clock and then
15:11
Speaker 1: he left and went to it, you know thing. But
15:13
Speaker 1: that is really that's the window is so tight that
15:17
Speaker 1: it's hard to believe that someone would sneak in there
15:19
Speaker 1: the minit he left. Yeah, let's talk about what you're saying,
15:22
Speaker 1: because that's a really good point, Matt Harris, deal Carson
15:25
Speaker 1: with me, Doctor Sherry shore Is, doctor Michelle Dupree, Barbie Chakone,
15:29
Speaker 1: Matt Harris, everybody jumping. That's a really good point. So
15:32
Speaker 1: let me understand this, Carson. You're the defense lawyer. Okay,
15:36
Speaker 1: you're the defense lawyer. So I'm supposed to believe now,
15:40
Speaker 1: Alex murdog lured his wife there and we have evidence
15:44
Speaker 1: he lured her because she was texting her friend. Okay,
15:47
Speaker 1: he's acting fish. He suthing's up? Why am I going out?
15:50
Speaker 1: She didn't even want to go. He talked to Rhen
15:52
Speaker 1: to coming out there, So I was supposed to believe
15:55
Speaker 1: he lures her there. Then he leaves him there to
15:58
Speaker 1: go watch a game show with him his mother, who
16:01
Speaker 1: I think has dementia and it's not going to be
16:03
Speaker 1: able to testify, And then he goes back to the scene.
16:08
Speaker 1: And in that forty five fifty minutes span of time,
16:13
Speaker 1: what an unknown assailant has come in, murdered the both
16:17
Speaker 1: of them with a Murdoch weapon and left and just
16:21
Speaker 1: in that little window of time. Is that what I'm
16:24
Speaker 1: supposed to believe? Del Carson? Well, we know now that
16:28
Speaker 1: the Murdoch family was involved in a great many things
16:31
Speaker 1: and it could have created a lot of angry people
16:34
Speaker 1: out there who were willing to take revenge on this guy.
16:37
Speaker 1: Then why not shoot him? Well, they couldn't get him, really,
16:41
Speaker 1: all they had to do was waited about eighteen minutes
16:43
Speaker 1: and did show back up. I'm just making the necessary
16:46
Speaker 1: defense arguments. And here's the critical point. Not all of
16:49
Speaker 1: that evidence is going to come before a jury. I
16:51
Speaker 1: guaran damn tee you those cell phone records are going
16:56
Speaker 1: to come before the jury. Bobby should come place. And
17:01
Speaker 1: I know Dale Carson is doing what he's got to
17:03
Speaker 1: do because he's a defense lawyer. That's total bs. The
17:06
Speaker 1: government has had access to that before any defense attorneys
17:10
Speaker 1: had access to it. So what could they have modified
17:13
Speaker 1: the timeline? Yeah? Oh yeah? And did you hear there's
17:16
Speaker 1: a conspiracy in the OJ Simpson case. Hey, didn't do it? Okay, Bob?
17:21
Speaker 1: Would you can't help me out? Please please throw me
17:24
Speaker 1: about here, do me a solid. It's an angel defense pactic.
17:27
Speaker 1: If you can't attack the facts, you attack the police. Right.
17:29
Speaker 1: So now we're hearing that maybe the police or maybe
17:32
Speaker 1: the law enforcement somehow manipulated the data. Well, the data
17:37
Speaker 1: is strong and a data solid, and the data shows
17:40
Speaker 1: the story. And I think the jury's gonna be walked
17:42
Speaker 1: through that timeline very well. And regardless of the friends
17:46
Speaker 1: together that's may have been difficult of the scene, where
17:49
Speaker 1: the bodies are located in type of weapons, I think
17:52
Speaker 1: we'll tell the story of how this happened. And you
17:55
Speaker 1: don't always need your definitive forensic science on your side.
17:59
Speaker 1: Sometimes you just need common sense. And when you talk
18:02
Speaker 1: to jury through this timeline and through where the bodies
18:05
Speaker 1: were located, in the types of weapons used, I think
18:08
Speaker 1: you're going to be able to establish in the jury's
18:11
Speaker 1: mind the only reasonable doubt that he shot his son
18:13
Speaker 1: first in the head, and then the wife was running
18:16
Speaker 1: away and he shot her in the back, and then
18:17
Speaker 1: he walked over and he shot her more times when
18:19
Speaker 1: she was on the ground. What if we have both,
18:21
Speaker 1: What if we have scientific evidence such as cell phone
18:25
Speaker 1: records such as high impact human fluids spatter on Alex
18:31
Speaker 1: Mornarch that you can only get by being within about
18:35
Speaker 1: thirty six inches three feet of the shooting at the
18:39
Speaker 1: time of the shooting, and common sense, because that is
18:43
Speaker 1: forensic evidence. Undisputed prosecute is absolutely loved when the physical
18:48
Speaker 1: evidence supports the theory and in the common sense of it.
18:52
Speaker 1: So absolutely, you're absolutely right using every bit of the
18:55
Speaker 1: forensic claims that supports that theory. We'll go before the
18:58
Speaker 1: jury and that will help them along in the narrative.
19:02
Speaker 1: I mean, doctor Michelle d Prey, isn't that correct that
19:06
Speaker 1: when you have high impact, let's just go with blood
19:09
Speaker 1: spatter that shows what what does that prove in your mind?
19:14
Speaker 1: Because you're not only pathologists medical examiner, you know about
19:18
Speaker 1: your weapons as well. What does that show When you
19:21
Speaker 1: have high impact blood spatter so fine a spray it's
19:26
Speaker 1: invisible to the human eye, what does that mean to you?
19:29
Speaker 1: It means that you was standing within that range when
19:32
Speaker 1: the gun was fired and when the bullet hit the
19:34
Speaker 1: target in this case, when it hit the person. Matt Harris.
19:37
Speaker 1: Something I heard from Bobby and I talked to him
19:40
Speaker 1: a while back is that the defense defense attorneys might
19:43
Speaker 1: go with, you have long arm weaponry and you have
19:47
Speaker 1: blood spatter which is thirty six inches as you say,
19:51
Speaker 1: They might argue, well, he used those long arm weapons
19:54
Speaker 1: that he would have been outside of that don't So
19:56
Speaker 1: that's something they could say, Bobby, Yeah, that's something they
19:58
Speaker 1: could say. And this actually surpri idea that the allegation
20:01
Speaker 1: that ye I hope they do. It's possible, and that'll
20:04
Speaker 1: help them establish the close proximity to you know, luring
20:08
Speaker 1: someone in and too, you know, getting their guard down
20:11
Speaker 1: on being that close. But it is unusual to get
20:14
Speaker 1: spatter on you when you're using a long gun. But
20:16
Speaker 1: that just that just actually ups the coolness of it
20:19
Speaker 1: that he was up close and personal with these people
20:22
Speaker 1: when he used and what's what's what devastating? I shot
20:25
Speaker 1: gun blast to someone's head at close range is a
20:29
Speaker 1: devastating injury. I mean, you're basically blowing the person's at
20:32
Speaker 1: all and a father who can do that to his
20:34
Speaker 1: own son is next level evil. We can also test
20:37
Speaker 1: for our similar weapons and established the approximate distance, so
20:41
Speaker 1: we can tell if that's possible to even receive that
20:44
Speaker 1: blood spatter on that Parson Dodda Sherry Schwartz. I just
20:47
Speaker 1: heard something that really struck me, and I think it
20:50
Speaker 1: was Bobby Chica could have been hars He said the
20:55
Speaker 1: nature of shooting. And he didn't say Maggie. He said
20:59
Speaker 1: shooting yoursel on that way. And as much as I
21:02
Speaker 1: don't like it, I agree. I think people get into
21:06
Speaker 1: domestics all the time and pull out a gun and shoot.
21:10
Speaker 1: But to shoot your child, Okay, I just got chilled
21:13
Speaker 1: bumps on the left side of my body. To shoot
21:15
Speaker 1: your own child, that's a whole another level of evil. No,
21:22
Speaker 1: it really is. I mean that's what struck me as
21:25
Speaker 1: I was listening to everyone talk about this. When you
21:28
Speaker 1: really think about that the level of depravity and cruelty
21:32
Speaker 1: and premeditation that went into this is so over the
21:36
Speaker 1: top disturbing that this I can't imagine this not being
21:40
Speaker 1: a death penalty prosecute. Okay, wait a minute, I gotta Jackie.
21:43
Speaker 1: I've got to find first. I want to play our
21:46
Speaker 1: friends at fitnisus is gen Wood talking about the video
21:50
Speaker 1: because it reminds me of Jodi Arius. Everybody, you guys
21:54
Speaker 1: were with me when we were talking about Arias and
21:57
Speaker 1: she had the digital camera. She takes pictures of Travis Alexander,
22:01
Speaker 1: her lover, in the shower, and then he's found dead
22:04
Speaker 1: in the shower, and then she accidentally takes pictures of
22:08
Speaker 1: her own leg and foot at the crime scene. I mean,
22:12
Speaker 1: there's blood and other evidence in the same picture with
22:16
Speaker 1: her leg. So these videos they sell, videos that you
22:21
Speaker 1: were hearing about are vital improving this case. Take listen
22:26
Speaker 1: to our cut ninety. We're hearing that there is video
22:30
Speaker 1: of him and Maggie at Moselle the evening of the homicides.
22:36
Speaker 1: I don't know much about the video, but we do
22:38
Speaker 1: know that there is video from Paul's bone. I believe
22:44
Speaker 1: so every everything you do on your phone's time stamp,
22:48
Speaker 1: date stamped. I mean, there's no hiding that, there's no
22:52
Speaker 1: changing the leaning. It doesn't always help. So yeah, I
22:55
Speaker 1: think that's going to blow a very big hole in
22:58
Speaker 1: his narrative and his alibi. And I also want you
23:01
Speaker 1: to hear our friend jin Woods at fit News. She
23:06
Speaker 1: is speaking again about the luring luring of Maggie out
23:12
Speaker 1: to the Moselle hunting lodge. Listen our cut ninety one.
23:16
Speaker 1: Our understanding that she was reluctant to go, but Alec
23:22
Speaker 1: had asked her to meet him out at Moselle. She
23:25
Speaker 1: was living at the Edisto home, the beach property, to
23:30
Speaker 1: you know, say goodbye to his dying father. So I
23:33
Speaker 1: do think, you know, those conversations and communications before getting
23:39
Speaker 1: to Mozilla are going to be important. So who Maggie
23:41
Speaker 1: spoke with about it calls me from Alec to Maggie,
23:46
Speaker 1: things that were said. I thought that's going to be
23:49
Speaker 1: another big part of the evidence. Antichos now were cut
23:51
Speaker 1: seventy nine. Our friends at crime online dot Com. When
23:54
Speaker 1: Alex Myrtle asked his wife to meet him at the
23:56
Speaker 1: family's hunting estate. People Magazine quote sources saying Maggie initially refused,
24:02
Speaker 1: suggesting instead they meet at the hospital. The law enforcement
24:06
Speaker 1: source says in the end, Maggie agreed to meet at
24:08
Speaker 1: the property, planning to follow her husband to the hospital
24:11
Speaker 1: in her own vehicle and let's hear more about the
24:14
Speaker 1: luring and our cut eighty crime online. On the way
24:17
Speaker 1: to meet Alex Murdole, Maggie Murtle allegedly messaged a friend.
24:21
Speaker 1: Law enforcement sources tell People magazine that the message said
24:24
Speaker 1: that something about her husband's behavior felt fishy. Maggie allegedly
24:29
Speaker 1: wrote to her friend, quote, he's up to something. Fit
24:32
Speaker 1: News reports their law enforcement sources say Maggie Murdoch told
24:35
Speaker 1: three people she was hesitant to meet with her estranged husband,
24:39
Speaker 1: but decided it was the right thing to do. I mean,
24:42
Speaker 1: I don't even know where to start unpacking that. You know.
24:47
Speaker 1: It's that feeling, and a lot of people go they
24:51
Speaker 1: pooh pooh those feelings as gut instincts that I've had
24:55
Speaker 1: so many, especially female victims, have instance, Hey, if anything
25:01
Speaker 1: happens to me, here's the key to my house. MPs
25:03
Speaker 1: my husband did it. Those feelings are not irrational. They
25:08
Speaker 1: are born of millions of years. I believe of evolution,
25:15
Speaker 1: and you can figure out things, feel things based on
25:20
Speaker 1: a million instances around you. And something told Maggie she
25:26
Speaker 1: should not go, but she went to go see her
25:31
Speaker 1: dying father in law, Matt Harris. If this is true,
25:35
Speaker 1: this is cold, I mean ice cold, luring her there
25:40
Speaker 1: under the guise of saying goodbye to his dying father,
25:44
Speaker 1: who did in fact die a couple of days later,
25:46
Speaker 1: to murder her. Yeah, they, as in Alex's brothers, had
25:51
Speaker 1: taken the father to Savannah Hospital earlier in the day,
25:56
Speaker 1: and the courts that Elk was there for a little
25:58
Speaker 1: bit and then came back would have made more sense
26:01
Speaker 1: for Maggie to drive straight from Edistoe to Savannah Hospital,
26:06
Speaker 1: as opposed to go all the way to Mozzelle and
26:09
Speaker 1: then to the hospital. That wouldn't make any sense. And
26:14
Speaker 1: what John Marvin I told us was that there might
26:19
Speaker 1: have been a plan for a family dinner, but he
26:21
Speaker 1: didn't know if they ever had it or not. So
26:22
Speaker 1: Alec might have said, hey, come on and we and
26:24
Speaker 1: then we'll go to Savannah as to the hospital, but
26:26
Speaker 1: that's still in nine o'clock. At nine he's leaving to
26:29
Speaker 1: good see his mother, so he never went to see
26:31
Speaker 1: the father that night, so that's out of the question
26:34
Speaker 1: because he never even did it. In the evening time
26:51
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace John Carson joining me Venans trial
27:00
Speaker 1: lawyer out of Jacksonville former fair with the FBI. This
27:03
Speaker 1: is cold. I mean, she's texting her friends something's up.
27:07
Speaker 1: This isn't right. He's acting fishy. I mean that is
27:10
Speaker 1: not going to be lost on those female jurars. No,
27:13
Speaker 1: it's not. And of course you don't want that to
27:16
Speaker 1: come in from of the jury panel. But of course
27:19
Speaker 1: your fife likely too, because it's relevant to the facts
27:23
Speaker 1: of the case. Now, our effort from the defense side
27:27
Speaker 1: is to try to keep that away from the jury panel,
27:30
Speaker 1: along with the aspects of familial ties, which indicates the
27:37
Speaker 1: declients evil. I mean, you don't want that to come
27:40
Speaker 1: in front of the jury panel because then the jury
27:42
Speaker 1: begins to convict an individual based on the emotions and
27:46
Speaker 1: not the facts. Dale. Whose fault is this. It's Alex
27:50
Speaker 1: Morlock's fault. It's not the state's fault. It's his fault
27:54
Speaker 1: from making his wife. When my husband calls me, or
27:57
Speaker 1: my children calling go hey mom or Nancy, come x,
28:00
Speaker 1: I hop in the car and go. I don't think
28:03
Speaker 1: it's some kind of an ambush, but she knew something
28:06
Speaker 1: was wrong. The trial is going to be in Colleton County,
28:09
Speaker 1: which is murdoch Land, and I'm sure Dick cart Putley
28:13
Speaker 1: in the attorneys Linknis Jopson Sander has got to have
28:15
Speaker 1: one that has some sort of type connection with a
28:19
Speaker 1: Burdox or they've done something nice for them or something
28:21
Speaker 1: like that, because that's been their county for a hundred years.
28:24
Speaker 1: There's totally going to be a venue change, There's no
28:26
Speaker 1: question about that. There's totally going to be a change
28:29
Speaker 1: of venue. But what about it, Chakode. I can't tell
28:32
Speaker 1: you how many cases that I've prosecuted where the murder
28:36
Speaker 1: victim sinses evil, sinces something is wrong, can't put their
28:42
Speaker 1: finger on it. It's happened so many times. This was
28:46
Speaker 1: one of those who I think you're right. The evolutionary
28:48
Speaker 1: aspect of intuition or whatever you want to call it,
28:51
Speaker 1: told her that something was amiss here, and maybe she
28:54
Speaker 1: was involved with her husband for so long that she
28:58
Speaker 1: just didn't think it would rise to the left being murdered.
29:01
Speaker 1: I'm sure she didn't think she was being murdered but
29:03
Speaker 1: at the same time, there's evidence that she left her
29:06
Speaker 1: car running when she got out to see alex as
29:08
Speaker 1: the family property. That so she was not planning to
29:11
Speaker 1: spend a whole lot of time, certainly not planning to
29:13
Speaker 1: eat a meal there, and she left her car running
29:16
Speaker 1: when she got out and was murdered. So I think
29:18
Speaker 1: that this is a case where she thought her husband,
29:20
Speaker 1: they were going through a divorce, she was seeing a
29:21
Speaker 1: divorce attorney. She thought he was probably going to either
29:24
Speaker 1: try to, you know, brainwash her into dropping the divorce
29:27
Speaker 1: or so, or some maneuvering with the divorce. I don't
29:30
Speaker 1: think she actually thought that, you know, obviously she thought
29:33
Speaker 1: that she probably would have got out, but there was
29:35
Speaker 1: some level of suspicion that her husband was up to
29:38
Speaker 1: something because this is the kind of guy he was.
29:41
Speaker 1: No one knew him better than his wife, his long
29:43
Speaker 1: standing wife, and so her her opinion that he was
29:47
Speaker 1: up to something has a lot of credibility. Let's not
29:50
Speaker 1: forgetting it that two days after the murder, they were
29:52
Speaker 1: supposed to go to hearing where they're gonna have to
29:55
Speaker 1: reveal a lot of their financials because of the beach
29:59
Speaker 1: voting accident. That was two days half of the murders,
30:02
Speaker 1: I called out an accident when Mallory Beach, nineteen year
30:05
Speaker 1: old girl was thrown from the Murdoch boat going speeding
30:10
Speaker 1: through the water and crashing into those cement pilings, I
30:13
Speaker 1: called out a crash. You know, you get drunk and
30:15
Speaker 1: get behind the wheel where everybody's trying to physically drag
30:18
Speaker 1: you away from driving, and you keep driving and somebody dies.
30:22
Speaker 1: That's a crash. That is not an accident. Hey, I
30:24
Speaker 1: want to follow up on something I believe Chicone just
30:27
Speaker 1: said about leaving the car running. Take a listen to
30:30
Speaker 1: our cut eighty one crime online dot com. When Maggie
30:33
Speaker 1: Murdon arrived at the scene, she reportedly left her car
30:36
Speaker 1: running and walked to the down kennels on the estate,
30:39
Speaker 1: where her son Paul was taking photos of a dog
30:41
Speaker 1: he was watching for a friend. What exactly happened next
30:44
Speaker 1: is unknown, but that's where the two were going down.
30:48
Speaker 1: Paul's body, shot in the chest and head at close range,
30:50
Speaker 1: was found half in and half out of the down kennels.
30:54
Speaker 1: Maggie was shot multiple times, including one shot in the
30:57
Speaker 1: back and additional shots while she was laying on the
31:00
Speaker 1: ground with three hundred black out EMMO from an AAR
31:02
Speaker 1: style rifle. What does it tell you anybody on the
31:06
Speaker 1: panel jump in that she left her car running? I mean,
31:10
Speaker 1: I never do that. I'm afraid the thing will go
31:12
Speaker 1: into drive somehow. It tells me a lot. One of
31:16
Speaker 1: the lights were on in her car so she could see,
31:18
Speaker 1: and you often do that when you're at an area
31:21
Speaker 1: that is dark. And of course it's important understand that
31:26
Speaker 1: she arrives her son's already there, and that if that
31:30
Speaker 1: evidence comes in from his cell phone, it obliterates the
31:34
Speaker 1: ironclad alibi that Murdoch might have otherwatch well, I'm not
31:40
Speaker 1: sure it would have been dark out is well, it
31:44
Speaker 1: just depends on the timing of it. So if she
31:47
Speaker 1: pulls up at nine o'clock, it's gonna be dark at nine.
31:50
Speaker 1: But did they get killed before then, because if she's
31:53
Speaker 1: leaving the car running, it could. Because she said, I
31:56
Speaker 1: don't want to be with this guy. I'm going to
31:57
Speaker 1: follow him to the hospital. So I'm just up out
32:00
Speaker 1: hey Paul getting the car and followed Alex sitting there
32:02
Speaker 1: in his truck. She thinks you're gonna follow him, but
32:04
Speaker 1: it says he does follow him. But then shoots them guys.
32:08
Speaker 1: In addition to all of this making sense of the
32:10
Speaker 1: indictments that we now have, take a listen to our
32:13
Speaker 1: cut ninety four our friends at w lt X. Murdoch
32:17
Speaker 1: is said to appear at a bond hearing on Wednesday,
32:20
Speaker 1: July twentieth, and criminal defense attorney Jack Swirling says it's
32:24
Speaker 1: going to be a long road ahead before a trial
32:26
Speaker 1: can even begin. The next few months they're going to
32:28
Speaker 1: be involving hearings, getting things organized, and getting things ready
32:32
Speaker 1: for a trial. Really, the interesting thing will be whether
32:35
Speaker 1: or not the judge grants a speedy trial motion and
32:39
Speaker 1: orders that the case be tried by the end of
32:41
Speaker 1: the year. As the state puts together it's evidence to
32:43
Speaker 1: build their case, Swirling says, this can be a lengthy
32:46
Speaker 1: process and the public might not get to see a
32:48
Speaker 1: Murdoch trial for a long time. I may not get
32:51
Speaker 1: tried as fast as everybody would like, and I know
32:54
Speaker 1: that everybody wants swift justice, but these cases are very complicated.
32:58
Speaker 1: Tell me about the potential bond hearing. I believe it's
33:01
Speaker 1: set for Wednesday morning. Is that correct, Matt Harris Wednesday
33:06
Speaker 1: at ten am. That's going to happen now, it's expected
33:10
Speaker 1: to be there and then not guilty will be read aloud.
33:16
Speaker 1: The issue of speedy trial is interesting because we no
33:19
Speaker 1: longer wave speedy trial. We wanted to go forward as
33:22
Speaker 1: quickly as possible because that gives the government less time
33:25
Speaker 1: to get property prepared. And that may be why the
33:28
Speaker 1: indictments took so long, because the government all along the
33:32
Speaker 1: state is getting prepared for trial and they're ready to
33:36
Speaker 1: go to trial when the defense pulls a trigger on
33:39
Speaker 1: filing a motion for speedy trial. At bottom line, speedy trial.
33:44
Speaker 1: Under the Constitution, you have a right to a quote
33:47
Speaker 1: speedy trial. What does that mean as opposed to jurisproduce
33:52
Speaker 1: in other countries where you're arrested and you can sit
33:55
Speaker 1: and jail for years before you have your day in court.
33:58
Speaker 1: Not true. In the US. You have a right to
34:01
Speaker 1: a speedy trial. What does that mean? It typically means
34:05
Speaker 1: that you have the time you can demand a speedy
34:08
Speaker 1: trial the moment you're formally charged. That's when the right
34:12
Speaker 1: to a speedy trial attaches. That means your case has
34:16
Speaker 1: to be tried within that grand jury session, which is
34:19
Speaker 1: usually two anywhere from two to four months, or the
34:23
Speaker 1: next one, or if it is a capital case, which
34:27
Speaker 1: this may be, you have two additional grand jury terms,
34:31
Speaker 1: which means you've got to be tried within the year
34:35
Speaker 1: at the very least. Well, in Florida, it's right, and
34:40
Speaker 1: you know in other jurisdictions, if it's a death penalty case,
34:44
Speaker 1: there is more time added to the speedy as opposed
34:47
Speaker 1: to a shoplifting. Sure, i'll try it next week, but
34:50
Speaker 1: if it's a death penalty case, there's going to be
34:53
Speaker 1: more time on both sides to get ready. So what
34:56
Speaker 1: that does is put the state behind the eight ball.
35:00
Speaker 1: You've got to be ready when you hand down the
35:02
Speaker 1: indictment because if a speedy is filed, you have to
35:06
Speaker 1: go straight to trial immediately. To Bobby Chicone, a former
35:10
Speaker 1: family the FBI, Bobby, I think I know one of
35:14
Speaker 1: the reasons there's going to be a likely delay. Take
35:17
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut eighty six. Our friends at
35:20
Speaker 1: WTOC SLED reopened the death investigation of Gloria Sadderfield last
35:24
Speaker 1: fall and made the decision to exhume her body for
35:27
Speaker 1: an autopsy last month. Within the next couple of months,
35:30
Speaker 1: her body is going to be exhumed. Their sled's going
35:33
Speaker 1: to work with us to make sure it's a respectful process,
35:36
Speaker 1: and you know, it's highly emotional for the families. You
35:38
Speaker 1: can imagine. However, Bland maintains they don't believe Alex had
35:42
Speaker 1: anything to do with Gloria's death. They have to do
35:44
Speaker 1: this because they have to, you know, make sure that Alex,
35:47
Speaker 1: you know, didn't have a hand in Gloria's death. We
35:51
Speaker 1: don't think he did. We don't think that her death
35:53
Speaker 1: was intentional. You know, she was a beloved family member
35:56
Speaker 1: of them. But I definitely think that Alex used it
35:59
Speaker 1: is an oportunity to enrich himself. Bland referring to the
36:03
Speaker 1: money owed to the Sadderfield family that they never saw.
36:06
Speaker 1: Last month, Murdoch agreed to a four point three million
36:08
Speaker 1: dollars settlement with the family, admitting to liability in a
36:11
Speaker 1: lawsuit filed by her sons. From our client standpoint, they've
36:15
Speaker 1: gotten justice as best as justice can be defined. Are
36:21
Speaker 1: they waiting to know more about housekeeper Gloria Sadderfield's death
36:25
Speaker 1: before they go to trial? Will that somehow be introduced
36:29
Speaker 1: as a similar transaction Another female approximate same age as
36:35
Speaker 1: Mackie Murdoch at the same location unexplained circumstances, Alex Murdock
36:42
Speaker 1: swooping in to control the narrative immediately after the death.
36:46
Speaker 1: I don't see it as a similar transaction, believe it
36:49
Speaker 1: or not. But are they waiting on those results right now?
36:54
Speaker 1: We're trying to figure out will the death penalty be
36:56
Speaker 1: sought and will he actually get bond? On Wednesday, take
37:01
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut ninety three our friends at
37:03
Speaker 1: w lt X. The indictment claims that Murdoch used a
37:06
Speaker 1: rifle to kill his wife and a shotgun to kill
37:09
Speaker 1: his son, which also led to two counts of possession
37:12
Speaker 1: of a weapon during the commission of a violent crime.
37:15
Speaker 1: These charges come amid a slew of other allegations against Murdoch,
37:19
Speaker 1: including a scheme to collect a life insurance policy after
37:22
Speaker 1: planning his own shooting death. The deaths of Alex's wife
37:25
Speaker 1: and son have also led investigators to do more research
37:28
Speaker 1: on the deaths of nineteen year old Stephen Smith, whose
37:31
Speaker 1: body was found on a rural Hampton County road in
37:33
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, at the time classified as a hitten run,
37:37
Speaker 1: and the death of the Murdoch family's housekeeper, Gloria Saderfield,
37:41
Speaker 1: who Allegeth died after a fall in the family's home.
37:44
Speaker 1: The Sadderfield family's lawyer says, the new murder charges just
37:47
Speaker 1: tell people what he already knows. You know, he said,
37:50
Speaker 1: now has a one word Moniker Murdoch made off like Manson,
37:54
Speaker 1: like Bundy. I don't think it'd open a wound for
37:57
Speaker 1: our clients. The wound is going to be a when
38:00
Speaker 1: the stage zooms her body. And now we're looking at
38:03
Speaker 1: a bond hearing, a bond hearing in a potential death
38:08
Speaker 1: penalty case. Take a listen how we're cutting ninety two
38:11
Speaker 1: our friends at fit news. What are we think is
38:14
Speaker 1: going to happen? There's schedule for ten eight and am
38:16
Speaker 1: on Wednesday. UM, I mean bond hearing basically is he
38:23
Speaker 1: gets the charges read to him. The judge will ask
38:27
Speaker 1: if he understands the charges um and make a decision
38:31
Speaker 1: on bond which Um I think I believe I heard
38:36
Speaker 1: enter his initial please yes, initial plea will be entered. Um,
38:40
Speaker 1: I think I Judge Newman's hearing it. I believe yeah, which, yes, yeah,
38:46
Speaker 1: he does not mess around. It would be shocked if
38:48
Speaker 1: anything changed for those of you. Judge Newman. Back back
38:51
Speaker 1: in October he was the judge who denied Alec Murdock
38:54
Speaker 1: bond on some of the initial charges, and I'll tell
38:57
Speaker 1: you why. One of the considerations on giving bond is
39:01
Speaker 1: threat to the community and potential witness tampering. I'll tell
39:04
Speaker 1: you what if I was a witness in this case
39:06
Speaker 1: for the state, I would clear out. If Alex Murdog
39:11
Speaker 1: gets out of jailong bond, we wait as justice unfolds.
39:15
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crown's story, signing off goodbye friend,