Latest / Simply Bitcoin / WAIT: JP Morgan is STILL predicting $170,000 Bitcoin in 2026?! | EP 1392

Transcript

WAIT: JP Morgan is STILL predicting $170,000 Bitcoin in 2026?! | EP 1392 · Simply Bitcoin

• 0:00
  Yo, literally days after JP Morgan was publicly attacking
• 0:05
  strategy, they came out today and recycled their old 170K
• 0:13
  Bitcoin. What do we call this
• 0:16
  expectation? But they're not the only huge
• 0:19
  bank making big moves into Bitcoin this week, making
• 0:25
  everybody wonder, are the institutions trying to capture
• 0:29
  Bitcoin or did they just finish getting their positions and now
• 0:33
  they're ready to let the rocket ship do what the rocket ship
• 0:37
  does, which is number go up, baby.
• 0:41
  I find it quite interesting because again, it's Wall Street
• 0:44
  playing their old games of using media to shake out retail to get
• 0:50
  themselves positions, which again, this is, this is a game
• 0:54
  as old as Wall Street. I think it's just hit Bitcoiners
• 0:58
  differently because Bitcoiners have not been used to dealing
• 1:03
  with Tradfi. I think this year, if you were
• 1:06
  to define this year, this year was the year of Tradfi.
• 1:09
  Opti was showing me a chart the other day of all of Bitcoin's
• 1:14
  history and every single year in Bitcoin's history, you see the
• 1:17
  candle. If you go by yearly candles, you
• 1:20
  either see Bitcoin go up a lot or you see it go down a lot.
• 1:24
  We've had two two giant Wicks this candle, but where the price
• 1:27
  is exactly the same to where the price started and the beginning
• 1:31
  of the year. So again, it begs the question.
• 1:35
  You have Caitlin Long replying in all caps screaming
• 1:39
  manipulation, right? You have some of the most
• 1:43
  powerful people involved in the Bitcoin industry owning some of
• 1:48
  the largest Bitcoin treasury companies.
• 1:50
  You have BlackRock, you have Larry Fink going on TV and
• 1:55
  preaching Satoshi's gospel. You have the Bitcoin ETF, the
• 1:59
  Bitcoin BlackRock ETF, the most profitable ETF that BlackRock
• 2:03
  has. So is it too far of a stretch to
• 2:07
  say that hey, listen, they want to get their bags loaded before
• 2:12
  number go up and they're willing to play all the Wall Street
• 2:17
  games possible in order to keep the price where it's at, to
• 2:21
  shake out the weak hands, to scare you out of your bags so
• 2:25
  that they can accumulate cheaper sats?
• 2:28
  Because you guys have to remember the history.
• 2:30
  If you guys have been tuning into simply Bitcoin every day,
• 2:33
  you guys know the deal. But if you guys haven't been a
• 2:36
  week, a week or two ago, me and Opti were in war mode.
• 2:40
  We're like, Oh my God, Jamie Dimon is attacking Bitcoin.
• 2:43
  We know how he talks about Bitcoin.
• 2:46
  He, you know, he, he takes every advantage to say, listen,
• 2:49
  Bitcoin is an index of money laundering left and right.
• 2:54
  And Schwartz, MicroStrategy, the price drops for I don't know how
• 2:58
  much. And then all of a sudden the
• 3:01
  next day they say stuff like this, they're calling $170,000
• 3:07
  Bitcoin while simultaneously announcing that they're
• 3:11
  launching AJP Morgan product, right?
• 3:15
  So again, they're playing boot. Both sides of the same coin.
• 3:18
  They're fundamentally capitalist.
• 3:20
  I don't think they ideologically care about Bitcoin.
• 3:23
  I don't think they care about the whole sovereignty aspect of
• 3:26
  it. I don't think they care about
• 3:28
  the self custody aspect of it. But I think Jamie Dimon is a
• 3:31
  capitalist and I think he's trying to figure out how his
• 3:34
  bank can not only survive what's happening with Bitcoin, but also
• 3:39
  prosper as it relates to Bitcoin.
• 3:43
  And I think they're seeing what strategy did and how well that
• 3:46
  stock performed. I mean, Michael Saylor pulled
• 3:49
  off a miracle strategy, was basically going sideways for 20
• 3:53
  years until he announced the Bitcoin strategy and then the
• 3:57
  stock like 30X in a span of a year and a half.
• 4:00
  It was absolutely incredible. And then that created this
• 4:03
  cascading domino effect of all these other companies that
• 4:06
  started launching their own Bitcoin treasury companies and
• 4:10
  Bitcoin treasury strategies, right?
• 4:12
  But anyways, here's JP Morgan after shorting strategy, after
• 4:16
  fighting Bitcoin, basically going on the record.
• 4:20
  This article was published yesterday.
• 4:22
  This is Business Insider. This is the headline for the
• 4:25
  audio listeners. Why JP Morgan says Bitcoin could
• 4:28
  skyrocket to $170,000 in the coming months.
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  That's not a simply Bitcoin title.
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  That's not coming from us. That is literally coming from
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  the biggest bank in the United States.
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  They're at the point that they're even making expectation
• 4:48
  calls, to put it nicely, right? Anyways, let's get into the
• 4:52
  juice of the article, the source of the article.
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  Bitcoin may be in a bear market, but there's a case for the token
• 4:59
  to rocket to $170,000 sometime in the next 12 months.
• 5:04
  This is wild and this is wild and out.
• 5:06
  Bro. It's almost as if they're
• 5:07
  watching Rustin. Dude, this is crazy.
• 5:10
  This is Jamie's watching Rustin. Breaking news, JP Morgan said it
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  saw the crypto potentially climbing 84% over the next 6 to
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  12 months, citing A projection from its model that assumes
• 5:27
  Bitcoin will trade similarly to the price of gold.
• 5:31
  Quote Our volatility adjusted Bitcoin comparison to gold
• 5:35
  metric continues to imply a theoretical price of close to
• 5:40
  170 K, suggesting significant upside for Bitcoin over the next
• 5:46
  6 to 12 months. Such a rally would come on the
• 5:50
  back of a difficult few months for Bitcoin, which has tumbled
• 5:53
  into a bear market amid a general risk off shift, worries
• 5:58
  about the path of interest rates in 2026 and concerns about
• 6:02
  strategy, the Bitcoin treasury firm founded by Michael Saylor.
• 6:06
  Oh, how convenient. Business Insider is mentioning
• 6:10
  strategy in the same, you know, in the same article that they're
• 6:16
  mentioning JP Morgan and how convenient that JP Morgan is
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  launching a product that's actually going to compete with
• 6:23
  strategy. How convenient is all of this,
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  right? It all must be one big
• 6:28
  coincidence. Bitcoin traded around $92,000 on
• 6:32
  Wednesday, down approximately 26% from its all time high of
• 6:36
  over $126,000 earlier this year. The crypto is now down for the
• 6:42
  year. JP Morgan, though, has floated
• 6:44
  the possibility that Bitcoin could be trading more similarly
• 6:48
  to gold for years. This was most prominently
• 6:51
  exhibited in April when concerns about tariffs drove a historic
• 6:56
  sell off in U.S. stocks and LED to inflows into Bitcoin and
• 7:01
  other cryptocurrencies. Strategist has also said they
• 7:04
  were eyeing 2 factors to potentially influence the price
• 7:08
  of Bitcoin over the near term. Strategy holding onto its
• 7:12
  Bitcoin Fears have risen recently that Bitcoin holding
• 7:15
  company Strategy could start dumping some of its tokens as a
• 7:19
  price crash and its premium stock price relative to Bitcoin
• 7:23
  comes down. Strategy holding onto its
• 7:26
  Bitcoins would be a positive for the crypto, JP Morgan said.
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  How convenient is that? The firm is the second largest
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  corporate holder of Bitcoin. The rumors that it could sell
• 7:38
  some of its tokens began to pick up steam last month.
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  Arkham Intel, a crypto analyst firm, estimated that Strategy
• 7:46
  had around 437,000 Bitcoin and its coffers in November, down
• 7:52
  from its peak of around 484,000 Bitcoin early in the In the
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  month. Previously, the firm said it
• 7:59
  believed it had identified around 97% of strategies token
• 8:03
  of total Bitcoin holding. See here's the thing this entire
• 8:07
  paragraph that I'm reading right here like guys that is utter BS.
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  We know how much Bitcoin strategy holds.
• 8:18
  Like they're public about this. So again, a article from
• 8:23
  Business Insider predicting that bitcoins going to go up to 170K
• 8:32
  while simultaneously fudding MicroStrategy.
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  And they're saying that JP Morgan is saying this while
• 8:40
  simultaneously JP Morgan is launching a product that is
• 8:45
  going to allow people to benefit or, or get exposure to Bitcoin.
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  And it's a competitor to Strategy.
• 8:53
  You know, again, like it's a, it's a, it's a very fitting name
• 8:58
  for the outlet. Business Insider.
• 9:00
  Yeah, this is some insider type of stuff shenanigans in my
• 9:04
  opinion. Strategy's CEO recently
• 9:07
  suggested the firm could eventually sell its Bitcoin if
• 9:10
  it's M NAV were to dip below a threshold of one.
• 9:14
  That metric, which measures Strategy's market value relative
• 9:18
  to the value of its Bitcoin holdings, is hovering around
• 9:21
  1.1, according to the latest data on the company's website.
• 9:25
  JP Morgan Strategist noted that the firm recently announced it
• 9:29
  had raised $1.4 billion in cash reserves.
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  That fund could cover costs like dividend and interest payments
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  for about two years without the company having to sell Bitcoin,
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  strategists estimate, adding that they saw 4 sellings as
• 9:44
  quote. Even less likely with the
• 9:46
  reserves on hand quote. If this ratio stays above 1 and
• 9:51
  MicroStrategy can eventually avoid selling Bitcoin, markets
• 9:55
  will likely be reassured and the worst for Bitcoin prices will
• 9:59
  likely be behind us. So the article continues, but I,
• 10:04
  I, I want you guys to pay attention to the media and the
• 10:07
  politics and how the price predictions are being weaponized
• 10:13
  in order to convince you of certain narratives, which again
• 10:17
  is fascinating to me. This puts to shame the ICO booms
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  and busts and all the shenanigans that were happening
• 10:27
  in 2017 and 2018. This puts it to shame.
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  This is what Simon Dixon calls the financial industrial
• 10:35
  complex, right? And this is their media arm
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  acting in lock step. This is what is happening right
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  now. Ladies and gentlemen, Micro
• 10:46
  Strategy and JP Morgan are both trying to compete for your
• 10:51
  business. Ultimately, I think I'm a bigger
• 10:55
  fan of strategy than I am of Jamie Dimon.
• 10:58
  I think Saylor, you know, again he is from Wall Street Strategy
• 11:04
  again is not a replacement for spot Bitcoin.
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  But I can tell you for certain that I know Saylor fundamentally
• 11:11
  understands what Bitcoin is. I know that for a fact, you can
• 11:16
  listen to him talk, talk about this enough.
• 11:18
  I've had the pleasure of meeting Sailor and having, I haven't
• 11:21
  been able to talk to him a couple times.
• 11:23
  I know he knows what Bitcoin is, right?
• 11:26
  But he's also a capitalist and he also wants the, the, the, the
• 11:30
  price of his stock to go up right?
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  JP Morgan, on the other hand, we know how Jamie Dimon feels about
• 11:36
  Bitcoin, but Jamie Dimon doesn't want to get left behind.
• 11:41
  So isn't it convenient that the same week they fud because
• 11:45
  that's what it is. They FUD Bitcoin, they FUD
• 11:50
  strategy. They announced that they were
• 11:52
  shorting strategy. I believe Opti, right?
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  Isn't it convenient that they launch a Bitcoin related product
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  and then they get Business Insider?
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  Maybe they didn't get Business Insider, but again, I'm I'm I'm
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  what do I know? It's not like I work in media or
• 12:09
  anything. Business Insider drops an
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  article saying JP Morgan thinks that Bitcoin could skyrocket
• 12:16
  TO170K. But be careful.
• 12:19
  Watch out which strategy 'cause you know, like.
• 12:22
  Anyhow, moving on to this next article, which I think is
• 12:26
  incredibly bullish. Charles Schwab.
• 12:30
  Charles Schwab is interesting. Charles Schwab is one of the
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  brokerage platforms that, you know, older, older people like
• 12:37
  to use, wealthier people like to use that are in the Tradfi
• 12:40
  system. I always hear it's like, you
• 12:43
  know, I have to check my Schwab account like you, you hear that
• 12:45
  looks it's like a meme at this point.
• 12:48
  Schwab just announced that they are going to allow their
• 12:53
  customers $12 trillion worth of assets.
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  They're going to allow their customers to buy Bitcoin.
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  Let's get into some of the details.
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  Charles Schwab plans to launch spot crypto trading in 2026 and
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  is shaking up as one of the most consequential moves from a major
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  US brokerage. The firm, which overseas more
• 13:15
  than $12 trillion in client assets, intends to offer Bitcoin
• 13:20
  and Ethereum trading across its platforms.
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  After internal testing and a limited pilot phase.
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  Charles Schwab will bring mainstream investors to crypto.
• 13:30
  Schwab's entry makes a shift in how traditional brokers approach
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  digital assets. The company already offers
• 13:37
  indirect exposure through crypto thematic ETFs, but spot trading
• 13:42
  Bitcoin Spot trading brings cryptocurrencies into the same
• 13:46
  environment as stocks, bonds, and retirement accounts.
• 13:50
  This could change how mainstream investors access crypto.
• 13:54
  The announcement also highlights a strategic push to consolidate
• 13:58
  investor activity. Millions of Schwab customers
• 14:01
  currently hold traditional assets and use exchange external
• 14:06
  exchanges for crypto. Bringing those functions under
• 14:09
  one account reduces friction and strengthens Schwab's footprint
• 14:14
  across asset classes. Meanwhile, another U.S.
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  financial giant, Vanguard, also announced its expansion into
• 14:23
  crypto last week. So again, this is absolutely
• 14:28
  massive. This is huge, right?
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  You have Bank of America, you have Vanguard, you have Charles
• 14:36
  Schwab, all announcing that they're launching Bitcoin
• 14:41
  related products, exposure to Bitcoin.
• 14:44
  You know what would even have me even more hyped at this point as
• 14:48
  if Schwab was like, oh, by the way, we're also offering the
• 14:52
  ability for you guys to withdraw.
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  That's what I'm looking at. I think the market eventually is
• 14:59
  going to force Schwab to do that.
• 15:02
  But again, I don't think Schwab would do that on their own,
• 15:06
  right? That's what I want.
• 15:08
  I want the ability for these brokerages, for these banks, not
• 15:12
  only to offer their clients to buy spot Bitcoin, but to be able
• 15:18
  to withdraw that spot Bitcoin. Because to be honest with you,
• 15:22
  if Schwab launches this and JP Morgan launches this product, it
• 15:27
  doesn't really help the Bitcoin revolution.
• 15:31
  And the Bitcoin revolution is individuals reclaiming back
• 15:34
  their financial sovereignty through taking back, taking self
• 15:39
  custody of their keys. That's what it comes down to.
• 15:42
  It's, it's as simple as that. It's really not that
• 15:45
  complicated. It's not rocket science, but
• 15:49
  overall incredibly bullish news. This Wall Street warfare that's
• 15:54
  going on again, it's fascinating to see.
• 15:59
  And again, the largest trading platforms on planet Earth are
• 16:04
  going out there and they're announcing, hey, we're going to
• 16:07
  allow spot Bitcoin trading Bank of America.
• 16:11
  Hey, we're getting in the game too.
• 16:14
  Vanguard, you know the ex CEO pie on his face a little bit
• 16:18
  embarrassed. Hey, we're going to be offering
• 16:21
  Bitcoin as well. So overall I mean this is this
• 16:25
  is incredible guys, I I don't know how else to to to tell it
• 16:29
  to you guys. I mean this is what winning
• 16:31
  looks like bro like the only thing that that that that is
• 16:35
  that needs to catch up. The only thing that I'm waiting
• 16:38
  on, the only thing that I'm I'm a little bit disappointed on is
• 16:42
  like, when is the price going to catch up to all this?
• 16:45
  Winning. I was.
• 16:47
  I was in my head thinking here we go, here we go When?
• 16:49
  Is the price going to catch up to all this winning bro?
• 16:52
  Because it it seems like, you know, all this women, all this.
• 16:59
  Yeah, it's Friday. It's.
• 17:01
  Friday and he didn't have any. Drinks so you know what it is
• 17:03
  it's I, I, I log on to it's always Rumble.
• 17:06
  I log on to Rumble and someone's like Nico took sassy pills
• 17:10
  today. I'm expecting him to steal
• 17:12
  Sophie Mean Girl's references soon.
• 17:14
  So I was reading that comment while.
• 17:17
  I was saying what I just said. But I I even lost my train of
• 17:21
  thought. What?
• 17:22
  What the hell was I saying? I have no idea, you said when.
• 17:25
  Oh, this is what winning feels. Like, yeah, OK, like, fine,
• 17:30
  we're winning, but the price isn't reflecting that we're
• 17:33
  winning. I I I'm just waiting for it to
• 17:36
  catch up bro. All this what?
• 17:39
  What did I? What did I say?
• 17:40
  You said all this women instead of all this winning.
• 17:43
  I didn't say that. Again, I know the chat.
• 17:46
  The chat's just trolling the. Chat's going crazy anyways,
• 17:55
  Opti. Yeah, well, I mean, my very
• 18:00
  unprofessional opinion too. We we need bad dudes to get the
• 18:05
  price to go up. Like for real.
• 18:07
  Like for real, dude. All right.
• 18:09
  Well, I find. All right.
• 18:12
  Obviously, probably the most interesting take on this is when
• 18:17
  you think of the timeline. Remember the timeline that we
• 18:20
  saw, we saw JP Morgan, you know, for years, basically be anti
• 18:26
  Bitcoin, famously Jamie Dimon, I believe it was like 2023.
• 18:31
  He said, I'm never going to talk about Bitcoin again.
• 18:33
  This was at Davos conference. I believe it was 2023.
• 18:36
  I could be mistaken. It might have been 2024, but I'm
• 18:38
  pretty sure it was 2023. And then he kind of went silent
• 18:41
  for a while. And right around that same time,
• 18:45
  of course, Larry Fink launches the Black Rock I Bid ETF, a very
• 18:50
  kind of, you know, spark note little footnote that went
• 18:54
  unnoticed for most people is that JP Morgan was the
• 18:57
  authorized participant of the I Bit ETF.
• 19:00
  And so, you know, they've been in the Bitcoin space as long as
• 19:04
  BlackRock has been in the Bitcoin space.
• 19:06
  Obviously that, you know, were the bit largest bank and the
• 19:09
  largest asset manager in the US are in cahoots here in Bitcoin,
• 19:14
  which I think obviously when it came out, it made us all feel a
• 19:17
  little weird. And then the more recent saga
• 19:20
  that has brought JP Morgan and specifically Jamie Dimon back
• 19:23
  into the news cycle was what happened around strategy.
• 19:28
  Of course they came out pulled up a a old report about 40 days
• 19:32
  old saying that strategy might get kicked out of the MSCI
• 19:36
  index. You know, strategy stocks been
• 19:39
  getting kind of pummeled right now on that exact day, strategy
• 19:43
  goes down, Bitcoin goes down and then lo and behold, we see that
• 19:47
  JP Morgan the very next day announces that they are
• 19:50
  launching A structured Bitcoin note, essentially copying what
• 19:54
  Michael Saylor has been doing. Now what is interesting is this
• 19:58
  week we see that they are doubling down on their 170K
• 20:02
  prediction for 2026, essentially saying the four year cycle is
• 20:06
  over. The institutions are.
• 20:08
  In command here really makes you wonder what is going on.
• 20:11
  But I think what was interesting and it was at the very end of
• 20:15
  that article is that not only are they using the goal to
• 20:19
  Bitcoin ratio as kind of their, their watermark of what they
• 20:23
  think Bitcoin is, that's how they got that 170K Bitcoin
• 20:26
  prediction, but they are using strategy as like the linchpin
• 20:31
  for this happening. They're like, look, if strategy
• 20:33
  doesn't sell some Bitcoin, then we'll probably go into 170 K.
• 20:37
  Oh, also, if strategy doesn't get kicked out of the MSCI
• 20:40
  index, then we'll probably see 170, which is like what Nico's
• 20:44
  saying. It's, you know, what is the,
• 20:47
  what is the reason for this article 'cause that's really
• 20:50
  what you got to think about here.
• 20:51
  And I was trying to kind of game theory this this morning and I
• 20:56
  came of two minds. One, I think the more cynical
• 20:59
  view is obviously like JP Morgan is finally putting out some
• 21:04
  quote UN quote signal there so that they can get some exit
• 21:06
  liquidity. You know, if we do get a rally,
• 21:09
  they obviously want to sell into that rally so that the plebs get
• 21:12
  absolutely wrecked. They're like, hey, it's going to
• 21:14
  170 get them locked in into their products, kind of dump
• 21:19
  their bags as they go play a games and the and the rest of
• 21:21
  the market. The other part of me really does
• 21:25
  kind of believe that with all of the news, you can't just combine
• 21:28
  the JP Morgan news. But with all of the recent news
• 21:31
  of all of essentially all of Wall Street getting into
• 21:34
  Bitcoin, it really does make me start to believe that they have
• 21:39
  packed their bags. They have unleashed the products
• 21:41
  at essentially the bottom of this kind of like, you know,
• 21:45
  local top 126 K down to like 80 K.
• 21:48
  It is dumping right now. I did see it got under 90K
• 21:50
  earlier today, but it, it really makes me think that like their
• 21:55
  bags are packed. Finally, they finally got the
• 21:57
  products, the Wall Street Bitcoin products that they want
• 22:00
  in place. And now they're like, OK, we can
• 22:03
  make it run 'cause obviously I think they have their own
• 22:06
  personal bags and they do want to actually, you know, profit
• 22:09
  off of Bitcoin as much as anyone else.
• 22:12
  Whether they are essentially on the one hand, like doing a Jim
• 22:16
  Cramer here. We're like, hey, now, you know,
• 22:19
  hey, all you Main Street retail people like you can finally now
• 22:23
  get into Bitcoin. Now's a good time to get the
• 22:25
  Bitcoin. And then they, you know,
• 22:27
  basically get, get, get an anvil dropped on their head or
• 22:31
  metaphorically. Yeah, I, I'm thinking like, you
• 22:33
  know, the coyote and the, and the what?
• 22:36
  What's it? Roadrunner and the Roadrunner
• 22:38
  and the Roadrunner or is them, is this them essentially kind of
• 22:45
  through all of the noise telegraphing what they think is
• 22:47
  going to happen? And it really makes you think
• 22:49
  like we posed at the very beginning of the show, you know,
• 22:53
  is Bitcoin captured by Wall Street?
• 22:56
  I don't think so. But I think it's, it's becoming
• 22:59
  very clear right now that they are kind of in control of the
• 23:03
  price currently and until it finally gets away from them that
• 23:08
  I think they're the ones that are really directing where this
• 23:10
  is going. So part of me is like, OK, it's
• 23:13
  exit liquidity 170. They're kind of trying to drum
• 23:15
  up the FOMO. The other part of me is like,
• 23:17
  are they literally telling us that we are going to whip this
• 23:20
  into 2026 while everyone thinks we're going to be in a bear
• 23:23
  market? I really don't know which one it
• 23:25
  is, but it does make me think kind of like they have to tell
• 23:28
  you what they're going to do before they do it.
• 23:31
  And I'm wondering if this is the signal of them saying that or is
• 23:34
  this more noise where they're just kind of trying to distract
• 23:37
  everyone. So that, that is kind of what my
• 23:40
  thinking is around Jamie Dimon and JP Morgan right now.
• 23:42
  I, I just find it super interesting that like their main
• 23:46
  kind of linchpin, their main 2 points for it going to 170 is
• 23:49
  revolving around strategy and what they do.
• 23:52
  Whereas I, I mean, I don't think strategy necessarily has that
• 23:56
  big of an impact. But as Nico pointed out, you
• 23:58
  know, they were mentioning 400 something, 1000 coins.
• 24:01
  I'm pretty sure Sailor is at like 650,000 coins now.
• 24:05
  So even their data doesn't seem to be that good on Business
• 24:09
  Insider. But yeah, it is super
• 24:11
  interesting. And then Charles Schwab, I mean,
• 24:14
  I've told this story forever on the show.
• 24:17
  My my initial Bitcoin journey started at Charles Schwab and
• 24:20
  they laughed me. They laughed me out of the out
• 24:23
  of the building because I didn't have enough money to invest in
• 24:26
  Charles Schwab. I.
• 24:29
  They have a building. Well, yeah, not like the
• 24:31
  official freaking, you know, Charles Schwab headquarters, but
• 24:34
  yeah, they have Charles Schwab like storefronts.
• 24:37
  And I walked into one and I had 250 bucks.
• 24:41
  I wanted to open an account because, you know, rich people
• 24:43
  trade stocks. Like, that's how you get rich,
• 24:45
  right? I walked into one and they
• 24:48
  laughed me out of the building. This was like 2016.
• 24:50
  They're like, yeah, dude, you need $2500 to start an account.
• 24:54
  And I'm like, oh, shit. All right, cool.
• 24:55
  Well, I guess I'm too much of A brokie to even open an account
• 24:58
  at Charles Schwab. So this was before Robin Hood,
• 25:02
  you know, this this before, like, the retail trading stuff
• 25:05
  happened. But yeah, I'm, I mean, I guess,
• 25:09
  you know, full circle. They're finally into Bitcoin.
• 25:11
  I guess I got there a little earlier than them, but hey, you
• 25:14
  know, all's well, all's well that ends well, dude.
• 25:18
  That's like the ultimate revenge story bro.
• 25:20
  To be honest with. You.
• 25:20
  Yeah, I'm, I'm cool with it. That's the ultimate revenge
• 25:23
  story. It's like, all right, you denied
• 25:25
  me. I got it to Bitcoin first, you
• 25:27
  know. Yeah, no, I honestly that was
• 25:29
  I've. Never heard that story.
• 25:30
  Before I've said this story so many times.
• 25:32
  I'm glad you've told this story. Yeah, I've said it so many
• 25:34
  times. Anyways, guys, it's gonna be a
• 25:35
  fantastic show. We have so much lined up for you
• 25:38
  guys. We have the vice president of
• 25:40
  the United States and it seems like the 2028 presidential
• 25:45
  frontrunner, JD Vance admitting that he owns a lot of Bitcoin.
• 25:50
  So we'll have two pro Bitcoin presidents back-to-back.
• 25:53
  JD is a lot younger than Trump. As as much as I like Trump, he's
• 25:58
  an he's an older man. So I don't know how much he
• 26:00
  conceptually understands Bitcoin.
• 26:03
  He's obviously a very smart person, you know, but again,
• 26:06
  like it, it's, this is technology at the end of the
• 26:09
  day. He even admits that Baron has
• 26:12
  helped him through Baron, his son has helped him through a lot
• 26:15
  of this, a lot of this stuff. So, and I know his sons are
• 26:18
  heavily involved. His older sons are heavily
• 26:20
  involved in the industry. But I, I, I wonder what the
• 26:23
  difference would be between having a, a, a, a younger
• 26:27
  president who owns Bitcoin, you know, versus versus someone.
• 26:32
  Because at the end of the day, bro, like Trump doesn't need
• 26:34
  extra money, man. He's a, he's a multi, multi
• 26:37
  billionaire. He has his own plane.
• 26:39
  Like it's a 730. Seven he like 2/3 his his net
• 26:43
  worth in Bitcoin. But you know, let's not talk
• 26:46
  about that. I mean, but.
• 26:47
  Everyone has to pay. Everyone has to pay the price of
• 26:50
  tuition, right? Anyways, guys, it's gonna be a
• 26:52
  fantastic show. We have tons to cover today.
• 26:55
  But before we jump into it, I do want to give a very special
• 26:58
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• 28:00
  All right, everybody, we have a hell of a show lined up for you
• 28:03
  guys. We have tons to talk about
• 28:04
  today. You guys are going to want to
• 28:06
  stay tuned. We're going to be right back in
• 28:07
  just a bit. I want to give a shout out to
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• 29:27
  All right everybody, at the time of recording, the Bitcoin price
• 29:30
  is $89,690.00. Wow.
• 29:34
  I'm just laughing at the price. Well. $89,700 block height
• 29:39
  926,552 market cap 1.79 trillion Bitcoin versus gold market cap
• 29:46
  5.99% Remember when the Bitcoin versus gold market cap was like
• 29:50
  a 10%? And we were like, you know, we
• 29:52
  were dancing. We were so excited.
• 29:55
  We were super, super hyped. Yeah, those were the days.
• 29:59
  Anyways, I do want to talk about this, ladies and gentlemen,
• 30:05
  check out this clip. The crypto speech was a big hit
• 30:09
  and I know a lot of smart people love crypto.
• 30:11
  I know some smart people actually have reservations about
• 30:14
  it. For our audience, can you just
• 30:16
  kind of make the case for crypto and people who have, you know,
• 30:19
  concerns and quite frankly don't even understand it?
• 30:21
  There are a lot of folks out there.
• 30:22
  I know a lot of people own it, but yeah of.
• 30:23
  Course, so, so look, I, I, I'm an owner of Bitcoin here, but
• 30:26
  I'm also the vice president of the United States.
• 30:27
  So I want to be careful, but I, I think the core value
• 30:30
  proposition of cryptocurrency is that it's a way of transacting
• 30:34
  in a way of storing value in a modern digital age Look 100
• 30:38
  years ago, if you wanted to go and buy something, you know, you
• 30:41
  put a dollar bill on the table, you put a gold gold coin on the
• 30:44
  table. The value proposition of Bitcoin
• 30:46
  is that it it, it can serve the same function, but in a digital
• 30:50
  age, a way that's secure that's safer from fraud that allows
• 30:54
  people to buy and sell and store value, but in a way that's
• 30:58
  consistent with the modern technological age that we live
• 31:01
  in. Now, having said that, I, I
• 31:03
  fully accept there are risks to all of these things.
• 31:05
  There are always risks to new technologies, our approach in
• 31:08
  the truck. All right, He's come further.
• 31:11
  He's come further. Not exactly.
• 31:12
  Not exactly. He, he, he definitely.
• 31:15
  Needs to listen. I mean, he said he did, I think
• 31:17
  kind of clarify this and he's like, I'm the vice president, so
• 31:20
  I think he has to say that, but. But he did, he did say he owns
• 31:24
  Bitcoin, right? That's number one.
• 31:26
  Number two, I think he he needs to listen to more Bitcoin
• 31:28
  podcasts, way more Bitcoin podcasts.
• 31:31
  He needs to at least binge watch the Sailor series at least once
• 31:38
  and he needs to read the Bitcoin standard, but definitely,
• 31:41
  definitely a step in the right direction.
• 31:43
  Definitely a step in the right direction.
• 31:45
  Like I it's crazy, you know, like we went from being hunted
• 31:49
  to the vice president of the United States admitting that,
• 31:54
  you know, he that he is an owner of Bitcoin, which is which is
• 31:59
  fantastic, which is great, right?
• 32:02
  And again, this is the front runner for 2028.
• 32:06
  We got 2 pro Bitcoin presidents in the White House back-to-back.
• 32:11
  I I think that's bullish from a regulatory perspective, but
• 32:14
  maybe not because we did pump way harder during operation
• 32:17
  choke .2 point O. So I don't know.
• 32:21
  I don't know. I don't.
• 32:23
  Know all right well, you know first of all I do love the
• 32:29
  rhetoric I will say that first and foremost, I I am a fan of
• 32:33
  the rhetoric here you know obviously the vice president
• 32:36
  understands what Bitcoin is I mean maybe like Nico said he
• 32:39
  needs to learn more. I I personally don't think that
• 32:42
  that's the case. And I think it's really more
• 32:45
  like he's the vice president and he's doing, you know, his PR
• 32:48
  thing where like he has to kind of acknowledge the risk.
• 32:51
  He can't just go full bolt hard. And that that's like my that's
• 32:54
  this is me being I I can't, I don't even know the word right
• 32:58
  now. Like this is this is me being
• 33:00
  nice, I guess is the best way to say.
• 33:02
  My second part of this is I don't really like Vance too much
• 33:06
  tell. The people, what they really
• 33:07
  want to hear. Yeah, I'm not.
• 33:08
  I'm not the biggest Vance fan and it really all boils down to
• 33:12
  his connections with Peter Thiel.
• 33:15
  That's that's, you know, he, he's, he's a Peter to a creation
• 33:19
  to me. I, I don't really trust the guy
• 33:21
  personally, but I do like that he is pro Bitcoin.
• 33:24
  I do like that he's a Bitcoiner that just like there's something
• 33:28
  about Vance that really, I don't know, doesn't sit well with me.
• 33:31
  And I think it's because of the PayPal mafia kind of connection.
• 33:34
  But hey, you know, I, I don't know if this is a good thing or
• 33:38
  a bad thing in regards to him pushing Bitcoin.
• 33:40
  That's just like my, that's my vibes with Vance.
• 33:42
  Anything that would jeopardize, you think that would jeopardize?
• 33:48
  I mean, as a candidate, kind of Peter Thiel is like CIA
• 33:54
  contractor for, you know, surveillance and information.
• 33:58
  Like we want a more private, less KYC future.
• 34:03
  Yeah, but hold. On and Palantir's job is
• 34:05
  literally tracking information. Hold on, but what if my so my
• 34:11
  perspective on this is I think what Trump did was he massively
• 34:15
  shifted the Overton window I'd. Agree 100.
• 34:17
  Percent on that big time right? I think before Trump, the
• 34:21
  Overton Window was like it, it, it, it didn't shift at all.
• 34:26
  Bro he blew up the Overton window.
• 34:28
  Metaphorically, right, So again, like, you know, you have like
• 34:36
  the the Overton window is shifting is what I'm trying to
• 34:39
  say right. So if you have someone like
• 34:41
  Trump, then someone like Vance that opens the door for our age
• 34:48
  our because at the end of the day, bro, like, like bitcoiners,
• 34:52
  like the, the bitcoiners that I know are in their fifties, 40s
• 34:56
  and 30s, right? I think the next generation of
• 35:02
  people that are going to be in positions of wealth and power
• 35:06
  are going to be Bitcoiners. I was running the math the other
• 35:09
  day. The the definition of an ultra
• 35:13
  high net worth individual is someone who owns $30 million or
• 35:17
  more of liquid assets, right? If you are, if Bitcoin goes to
• 35:26
  half $1,000,000 per coin, 30% of the population, a 30% of the
• 35:32
  ultra high net worth population is going to be Bitcoiners,
• 35:36
  right? 30 effing percent.
• 35:39
  And bitcoiners feel a certain way about the role of government
• 35:43
  and society, right? So I think that they're going to
• 35:46
  have a tremendous amount of influence on, on the the, you
• 35:49
  know, US politics moving forward.
• 35:52
  We already saw this, this last election.
• 35:55
  You can make a very strong argument that if it wasn't for
• 35:58
  the Bitcoiner donor base and donor class, Trump would not
• 36:03
  have won the 2024 election. You can make a very strong
• 36:07
  argument about that. The fact that we had a
• 36:11
  presidential candidate he need, he felt like he needed to speak
• 36:15
  at the Bitcoin conference to get those votes tells you everything
• 36:21
  you need to know about the power and influence of our movement.
• 36:25
  And I think this is just getting started.
• 36:27
  To think that it's just going to end there, I think is incredibly
• 36:31
  naive, right? So, yeah, I personally, I think
• 36:35
  this is extremely bullish. What do I know?
• 36:38
  Well, I, I do. I would agree with that last
• 36:40
  part. I think.
• 36:42
  I think like what, you know, what Trump did not just around
• 36:47
  Bitcoin, but in general fundamentally change politics,
• 36:50
  but in particular when it comes to Bitcoin, it, it does seem
• 36:54
  like moving forward every election, that's going to be one
• 36:58
  of those defining conversations like your stance on Bitcoin.
• 37:01
  I think moving forward, obviously I, I am kind of
• 37:04
  conflating this a little bit, but I think your stance on
• 37:07
  Bitcoin moving forward is totally going to be one of those
• 37:11
  make it or break it kind of topics for, for every politician
• 37:14
  from here on out because of what Trump did, I did.
• 37:16
  So I'm I'm in total agreement with that.
• 37:20
  All right, everybody. Well, we have a fantastic show
• 37:24
  lined up for you guys. We still have a ton of things to
• 37:27
  cover. We're going to be right back in
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  just a little bit. I want to give a shout out to
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• 40:05
  All right, everybody, we have a very special guest joining us
• 40:09
  today. Let's bring them up on stage.
• 40:11
  And air horns, please. We got Jonathan in the House
• 40:16
  joining us from Bit Key. Jonathan, how you doing man?
• 40:19
  I am doing well, nice to meet you.
• 40:21
  Well, dude, thank you. Thank you so much for joining
• 40:24
  us. Everybody who's watching right
• 40:25
  now, ladies and gentlemen, you guys know we've been talking
• 40:28
  about Bit Key for a couple of months now.
• 40:30
  We've been we've partnered up with them.
• 40:33
  We've we've brought on Jonathan to talk all things Bit Key on
• 40:38
  today's show and we're really excited to do that.
• 40:41
  So Jonathan, I'm gonna tell you my own personal perspective.
• 40:44
  I would love to get your thoughts on this as well.
• 40:47
  I've I've been in the industry for almost a decade now.
• 40:50
  I've I've played or used every single hardware wallet known to
• 40:54
  man at this point. What I absolutely love about
• 40:59
  what you guys have done with the bit key is that it is incredibly
• 41:03
  intuitive and easy to use. It has multi sig built in, it
• 41:08
  has inheritance built in. And the reason that for me
• 41:12
  that's important is the experience that I, I've lived
• 41:15
  through my lived experience with trying to get people to take
• 41:19
  self custody of their Bitcoin is that it is like it doesn't
• 41:25
  matter if you set them up. It doesn't matter if you you do
• 41:28
  all the steps. You will get a call two months
• 41:32
  later, three months later, four months later and they're going
• 41:35
  to say I lost my words. How do I use this thing?
• 41:40
  And you end up becoming the Uncle Jim of your family, right?
• 41:44
  It doesn't matter how much you know, videos you sent them and
• 41:47
  how many tutorials you sent them.
• 41:49
  You guys designed this product for the everyday person that
• 41:53
  perhaps isn't watching Bitcoin podcast 24/7, right?
• 41:59
  So that's my that, that's my personal interpretation of it
• 42:03
  and that's been my experience using it.
• 42:07
  No, you know, you know what's funny?
• 42:09
  You mentioned that and we used to joke when we were first
• 42:12
  launching that like this would be what it was like, should we
• 42:15
  do a marketing campaign of like the only Bitcoin wallet where
• 42:18
  you don't have to be tech support for your family?
• 42:20
  Cause like a lot of us who were playing with it on the team went
• 42:23
  through very similar realizations of like, hey, you
• 42:26
  can use this thing. It's easy to use, easy to set
• 42:29
  up, hard to shoot yourself in the foot.
• 42:31
  And it like really sets your friends and family up for
• 42:34
  success. And so like that was that very
• 42:36
  much resonates with us and was like one of our early thinkings
• 42:39
  around like, hey, this, there's really something here.
• 42:41
  Like there's really something to use ability.
• 42:43
  And like, I think what really LED us there was this idea of
• 42:47
  like hardware wallets are really secure if you do everything
• 42:52
  perfectly right forever. But that's a really tall ask of
• 42:56
  customers of like, hey, just don't just don't screw anything
• 42:58
  up for, you know now until forever and you'll be, you'll be
• 43:01
  fine. And we wanted to build something
• 43:03
  that was way more resilient to human error, way harder to screw
• 43:06
  up, something that doesn't rely on like you being a perfect
• 43:09
  operator to use. And so that was really one of
• 43:11
  our core ethos in building the key.
• 43:14
  Yeah, no. And I and I see it, right?
• 43:16
  I see it like this is like literally like I, I, I, I, I
• 43:19
  told my parents, my parents in law I'm like, like you have to
• 43:23
  get this thing. Literally all you do is you put
• 43:25
  in your fingerprint, you tap it on your phone, they're looking
• 43:27
  at me like wait, really? So yeah, it, it, it's, it's
• 43:32
  extremely intuitive. It's easy to use, but it still
• 43:34
  gets all the benefits of self custody and it also it also
• 43:40
  gives you the ability to make a mistake right, which I think
• 43:45
  again for people entering into Bitcoin that are not consuming
• 43:49
  Bitcoin podcasts every single day, they're just get you scare
• 43:53
  them away. Actually, when you talk about of
• 43:56
  custody, they look at you like you're a crazy person.
• 43:59
  It's like, what do you mean what like this thing?
• 44:01
  It's is the money, is the money actually in here like?
• 44:05
  Right, right, right. They they don't.
• 44:07
  C words to someone for the very first time is like is always
• 44:11
  kind of a A. They're like, wait, what?
• 44:14
  Yeah, yeah, it's it's you know, and that that's what I love
• 44:17
  about the product that you guys designed.
• 44:20
  I'm I'm gonna pass it on to my Co host Opti Jonathan.
• 44:22
  I'm here with my right hand. Man's my Co founder Optimus
• 44:27
  Fields Opti. I'm going to hand it off to you
• 44:29
  bro because you were saying the same thing the other day.
• 44:31
  I know you're going back home to California for Christian.
• 44:34
  I want to buy them all for my family, right?
• 44:36
  They I have their tech support and I'm like, you know what's
• 44:39
  going to be a good Christmas gift?
• 44:41
  I'm like, I'm just going to buy like 7 bit keys for everyone and
• 44:44
  be like, here you go. Anyways, Anyways, Nico did kind
• 44:48
  of mention some of the stuff, but I know you you guys just
• 44:51
  dropped a new article. Well, it's not that new.
• 44:53
  It's about a month old about a bit proposal that you guys
• 44:57
  basically launch and fundamentally, I guess change,
• 45:01
  you know, collaborative custody here.
• 45:03
  And I, I think this is a good conversation to start here
• 45:07
  because, you know, our audience is hardcore bitcoiners, like the
• 45:10
  most hardcore savage bitcoiners. And, and you know, sometimes
• 45:13
  they don't understand a lot of the moves that bit corners make
• 45:16
  or Bitcoin companies make. And they obviously have their
• 45:19
  opinions about this. But you guys, I think are
• 45:21
  solving the trade off between security, privacy and ease of
• 45:25
  use. So can you jump into, into this
• 45:27
  and explain this to our audience?
• 45:29
  You know, maybe for the, the hardcore bit corners, they're
• 45:32
  like, why, why would I get a bit key?
• 45:35
  And you guys are like, we just, we basically made the best
• 45:38
  hardware wallet for you guys, but everyone, you know, is
• 45:41
  nitpicking certain things here or there.
• 45:42
  So no floors Audulars, Jonathan. No, no, no, I appreciate it.
• 45:46
  Yeah, this is, you know, one of the things kind of transitioning
• 45:48
  from what we were talking about before, but being like so easy,
• 45:51
  you can you can just give it to your family members and they'll
• 45:54
  be fine. It's also a very serious wallet.
• 45:57
  Like we're not targeting sort of normies or this being a starting
• 46:00
  wallet that you upgrade out of. Like there's real serious
• 46:04
  privacy and security tech in here.
• 46:05
  And so that's something like we, I would I would love to talk
• 46:09
  about and let me I want to jump into the bit proposal because
• 46:11
  that that is so cool and I love nerding out about it.
• 46:13
  So like really, really happy to go deep on that.
• 46:16
  But to start on like just sort of motivating the problem where
• 46:19
  when you when you take on self custody for the first time,
• 46:22
  there's really like, you know, a couple categories of options.
• 46:24
  You either do sort of do it yourself single sig, which has,
• 46:29
  you know, it's not as secure as multi sig has some complications
• 46:32
  with like there being single points of failure and like
• 46:35
  you're securing a seed phrase. But now that seed phrase is
• 46:38
  really vulnerable because it's there's only one seed protecting
• 46:41
  your wallet. And so a lot of people, you
• 46:43
  know, start a single sig and then eventually move up to multi
• 46:45
  sig and DIY multi sig is frankly pretty hard.
• 46:49
  And it and it's and it's hard because like when you have you
• 46:52
  now you have multiple keys you have to protect.
• 46:54
  You don't want to Co locate them.
• 46:56
  You have multiple signing devices and then if you ever
• 46:58
  lose a key, like fixing a multi sig wallet is kind of hard
• 47:01
  because you you now have like an old multi sig wallet that only
• 47:04
  has two keys left and you want to migrate it to a new multi sig
• 47:07
  wallet that has three keys left. So like during this migration
• 47:10
  you have 5 keys you're keeping track of.
• 47:12
  Or maybe you're reusing the the the the 1st 2 keys and just
• 47:16
  adding a third key. So you have four or three keys,
• 47:19
  but two descriptors and like, it's, it's just a hard thing to
• 47:21
  manage. And then you layer like
• 47:23
  inheritance on top of that. And it's like, whatever you set
• 47:26
  up, however you figure out how to do this, you now need your
• 47:29
  beneficiaries to be able to operate it when you're gone.
• 47:31
  I'm like, that's to me, that was like really the the hardest part
• 47:35
  of this whole solution. At one point I like wrote a
• 47:37
  document for my family, which is like, if I'm gone, here's how to
• 47:43
  use the multi sync setup. And it's, it was like 30 pages
• 47:46
  and it was 30 pages because, you know, I had screenshots of like,
• 47:49
  OK, well, download Sparrow and like take, you know, here's a
• 47:52
  screenshot of what, like here's what it looked like in 2025.
• 47:54
  It probably looks a little bit different, but you're looking
• 47:56
  for something that kind of sounds like this, you know.
• 47:58
  And so anyway, so that kind of takes you onto the into the
• 48:01
  collaborative custody world where you get someone to help
• 48:04
  someone to manage the multi sync setup, manage the recoveries,
• 48:07
  manage the descriptors. But when you do that, you give
• 48:11
  up some really important things. And like, that's the that's the
• 48:14
  trade off that I think keeps some of the most hardcore bit
• 48:18
  corners kind of out of collaborative custody.
• 48:20
  Because like, while, while you want kind of all the good things
• 48:22
  that collaborative custody gives you there, there's some
• 48:25
  trade-offs there that are really hard to stomach.
• 48:27
  And one of them is privacy. And so this kind of sets us up
• 48:29
  to like motivate what we wanted to do in this in this step.
• 48:33
  And so we're a collaborative custodian set up where one of
• 48:37
  the keys is held in our servers. And one of the challenges of
• 48:43
  that is when you have one key in a multi sig wallet, you have
• 48:48
  full visibility into the wallet. So you can see all the
• 48:50
  historical transactions, you can calculate the balances, you can
• 48:53
  see all the future transactions. And this is was visibility that
• 48:57
  like made us really uncomfortable.
• 48:58
  Like we, we don't want this. And the only reason we have it
• 49:01
  is, is it was a, a, it's basically just a property of
• 49:07
  sharing keys in a multi sig wallet.
• 49:09
  And so we've got some really smart people, great
• 49:12
  cryptographers, great apply cryptographers, great, like
• 49:15
  people who really care about privacy and this stuff.
• 49:17
  And they looked at this and basically the core question was,
• 49:20
  does it have to be this way? Is there like some fundamental
• 49:24
  property of the cryptography that we're using that mandates
• 49:28
  every key in a multi sig have the same equal visibility as
• 49:32
  every other key? And when they dug into it, they
• 49:35
  came to the answer of no, there isn't like you can, you can
• 49:39
  break that trade off. And the way you you do that is
• 49:43
  you can give a participant a key so that they can sign, but you
• 49:49
  can withhold enough information from them that they don't
• 49:52
  actually know the full descriptor.
• 49:53
  And because they don't know the descriptor, they don't, they
• 49:55
  can't actually examine the wallet and they can't look at
• 49:58
  the blockchain. They can't identify your
• 50:01
  transactions and it keeps your and it keeps your balance
• 50:03
  private. And so this was the idea behind
• 50:07
  this bit proposal because when we realized that, hey, the, the
• 50:10
  cryptography just makes this possible.
• 50:12
  Everybody should do this like every collaborative, whether
• 50:16
  it's your traditional collaborative custody set up or
• 50:17
  like you're using a third party custodian, or we're imagining in
• 50:21
  the future, you know, family accounts or maybe corporate
• 50:23
  treasuries, or there's all sorts of scenarios where you might
• 50:26
  want to share a key for recovery or cosigning reasons, but you
• 50:29
  don't necessarily want to share full visibility into your
• 50:32
  wallet. And so being able to separate
• 50:34
  the idea of cosigning capabilities from visibility and
• 50:39
  the math, all maths, which is great.
• 50:41
  And so we, we spent some time figuring out how to, how to make
• 50:44
  it work. We wrote some implementations in
• 50:48
  a few different languages and published a bit so that
• 50:51
  everybody could use it. And you know, one of the really
• 50:53
  exciting things is the very first thing we did is we
• 50:55
  implemented it into our wallet. And so now when you on board
• 50:58
  into bit key, if you are, and this is just standard, anyone
• 51:01
  who on boards into bit key today going forward forever has a
• 51:04
  private wallet. This isn't some feature you turn
• 51:06
  on for existing users. You do need to upgrade to it
• 51:08
  because and then the reason you need to upgrade it is we've
• 51:11
  already seen your descriptor. So there's no point in us like
• 51:14
  deleting it because that's a, that's a trust us assumption.
• 51:17
  What we want to say is get on a wallet where we've never seen
• 51:20
  it, provably never seen it. And so that's why you, the
• 51:23
  existing users need to upgrade, get a new wallet, get a new
• 51:26
  descriptor, and then you'll be private.
• 51:27
  And so we're super excited about that.
• 51:29
  It was a huge deal for us, a huge initiative, a ton of work.
• 51:31
  And we're really, we've been really happy with the reception
• 51:34
  of it because we were very excited.
• 51:37
  That, that is super, super cool. And I'm, I'm glad that you broke
• 51:40
  that down because again, like ladies and gentlemen, again, we,
• 51:43
  we have people from all walks of life watching simply Bitcoin.
• 51:46
  But basically, yeah, you can do the single sig, which I think
• 51:51
  is, you know, first step, right? Then you go down the Bitcoin
• 51:55
  rabbit hole and you're like, wait, single sig.
• 51:57
  How do I, I don't understand. That's a lot of trust.
• 52:00
  And then you end up with single, single sig with a pass phrase,
• 52:03
  right? And then if you spend enough
• 52:06
  time down the Bitcoin rabbit hole and you know you have
• 52:08
  enough of your net worth in Bitcoin, you're like, wait,
• 52:11
  single sig with a pass phrase, then you end up at multi sig.
• 52:15
  And then eventually where I think it's the, the natural step
• 52:21
  is the collaborative custody, right?
• 52:22
  Which there's multiple services that offer this.
• 52:25
  But The thing is the collaborative custody, it, it,
• 52:28
  it from a lot of these people are my friends, right?
• 52:33
  But again, it's, it's still difficult.
• 52:35
  It's still difficult. That's the that's the that's the
• 52:39
  hard part. The hard part is you guys
• 52:42
  figured out how to make this intuitive and you guys figured
• 52:46
  out how to put a tremendous amount of complexity behind the
• 52:52
  product that you guys made. And now you're announcing on the
• 52:55
  show that you are, you have privacy in mind.
• 52:59
  So it's not just a collaborative custody wallet and, and, and
• 53:06
  hardware wallet and software wallet to, to, I mean a, a
• 53:09
  software interface to go along with it.
• 53:12
  But you guys actually built a mechanism that keeps the privacy
• 53:17
  intact for users that are using this collaborative custody
• 53:21
  Bitcoin hardware wallet, which I find absolutely fascinating that
• 53:25
  you are working in that direction.
• 53:27
  Because to be honest with you, that's like a very Bitcoin ethos
• 53:32
  type of thing. You're not really incentivized
• 53:34
  to do that right at all, right. You know, if you have more
• 53:39
  insights into how much Bitcoin is being held with your product,
• 53:43
  right, You know, Oh, no, it's, it's, it's.
• 53:47
  It's so awesome working at Block, especially with Jack at
• 53:50
  the helm and his Bitcoin ethos, because like you show up in any
• 53:53
  other company and you say like, Hey, I want to get rid of the,
• 53:58
  you know, all of our product tracking metrics.
• 54:01
  Like, you know, I can imagine I've been doing product
• 54:03
  management for 20 years now. Like I can imagine that
• 54:05
  conversation at like any other company being like, wait, what?
• 54:08
  Like you're going to remove your own ability to, to see how much
• 54:13
  usage your products getting. And a block, like it wasn't even
• 54:16
  a question. It was like, yeah, like privacy
• 54:19
  is, is about the core ethos. Like this is, this is, this is
• 54:23
  so important to not only just like from an ethos standpoint,
• 54:26
  but from a safety standpoint. And like, we don't want the
• 54:28
  toxic data. Like we don't want to have it be
• 54:32
  hackable or leakable or like, like we just don't want to touch
• 54:35
  it. And, and it's so cool having
• 54:36
  like such a strong Bitcoin ethos because like it's all Bitcoiners
• 54:39
  that work, that work on, on this product.
• 54:42
  And, you know, and so we, we, we get super excited about privacy.
• 54:45
  We take it really seriously. There's other, there's, you
• 54:48
  know, another feature we launched just this week, a
• 54:50
  couple days ago, that was another privacy enhancement,
• 54:53
  which is after doing the private balances, we no longer see your
• 54:59
  your wallet once you're once you're a customer, but we wanted
• 55:03
  bit key customers to be able to become customers privately.
• 55:06
  And so earlier this year we started accepting Bitcoin
• 55:08
  payments and so you don't have to share any payment
• 55:10
  information. And then this week we started
• 55:12
  doing, we released private pickup points, which is you can
• 55:17
  give instead of your home address, you can give a local
• 55:20
  business. There's like, it's like
• 55:21
  Walgreens and FedEx and there's a couple of more, there's like
• 55:23
  9000 locations in the US and pick it, pick it up at this
• 55:28
  local business. And so you don't even need, you
• 55:31
  don't need to give your payment information.
• 55:32
  You don't need to give your address.
• 55:33
  We can't see your balance once you get on like we are so
• 55:37
  privacy focused here and it like it takes a lot of like tech and
• 55:41
  work to get there. And it's something that we're
• 55:43
  really committed to and spend a lot of our road map on.
• 55:47
  And again, I applaud the fact that you guys are really taking
• 55:52
  a Bitcoin ethos approach. That's fantastic to hear as a
• 55:57
  Bitcoiner. We already have a question in
• 55:59
  the chat. I'm not going to say any of the
• 56:01
  curse words, but it says but if you lose phone and bitkey at the
• 56:05
  same time, are you effed? Yes, this is my favorite
• 56:09
  question. OK, no.
• 56:10
  And it's going to take a little bit of set up to explain why,
• 56:14
  but I feel like this is the audience to to explain it to
• 56:16
  because it's, it's such a cool solution.
• 56:18
  So obviously if you lose your phone or your hardware, then
• 56:24
  there's still 2 keys left and you can recover your wallet.
• 56:26
  That's all straightforward multi sync.
• 56:28
  So we get this question often, what happens if I lose both?
• 56:30
  And there is such a cool solution here.
• 56:33
  So we call it recovery contacts. And the idea behind it is it
• 56:37
  kind of mimics the idea of storing a seed phrase at your
• 56:42
  friend's house or your parents house where you like, take a
• 56:44
  secret. It's only one part of three and
• 56:48
  you go and hide it somewhere that someone else helps you
• 56:51
  protect. But we thought, hey, that's,
• 56:53
  that's a little bit like, you know, rudimentary of like hiding
• 56:57
  physical objects in physical places and you know, people's
• 57:01
  houses. Could we do it digitally?
• 57:02
  Could we do it with cryptography?
• 57:03
  Could we lean on cryptographic solutions and social networks
• 57:08
  and be able empower you to sort of create these artifacts that
• 57:13
  you need to recover your wallet and store them with people you
• 57:16
  trust. And so that's the idea behind
• 57:18
  it. And the way it works is you can
• 57:20
  ask anyone in your life to download the Bitkey app.
• 57:22
  They don't need the hardware. They just need to download the
• 57:24
  app. And once they have the app, you
• 57:26
  can set them up as a recovery contact.
• 57:28
  And the way that works is you just go into your app, you say
• 57:30
  add a recovery contact and it gives you a code.
• 57:32
  You send that code to them out of band, because again, we don't
• 57:35
  want to see it. We don't want to know who your
• 57:36
  recovery contacts are. We don't have any KYC on you.
• 57:39
  We don't have any KYC on them. To us, they're all just
• 57:42
  anonymous account IDs. So you send them this code and
• 57:45
  what that code does is it basically signals to them that
• 57:48
  they're going to become a recovery contact.
• 57:50
  And So what they do is they create a new encryption and
• 57:53
  decryption key pair. And these are not signing keys
• 57:55
  you have. These have nothing to do with
• 57:57
  kind of the, the, your wallet. They're just basic encryption
• 58:00
  decryption and they send you the encryption key.
• 58:03
  And this is happening all automatically in the background.
• 58:06
  And what you do is you take their encryption key and you
• 58:09
  encrypt your app key with it, and then you put it in your
• 58:12
  cloud account. Now, putting keys in the cloud
• 58:15
  always makes people nervous and makes us nervous too.
• 58:17
  But the reason that it's OK in this case is because it's
• 58:20
  encrypted by your trusted contact.
• 58:24
  And So what that means is, let's say someone hacks your cloud.
• 58:27
  Let's say your cloud provider becomes evil and steals it.
• 58:31
  That's not a useful piece of data until they also have the
• 58:33
  decryption key. Now the person holding on to the
• 58:35
  description key, we don't know who they are.
• 58:38
  Only you know who they are. And So what happens is if you
• 58:42
  need to recover your wallet, let's say now you lose your
• 58:44
  phone, you lose your hardware. So you have you have nothing.
• 58:47
  You get you, you get re down, get a new phone, re download the
• 58:49
  app, get a new hardware and now it's time to recover your
• 58:52
  wallet. So now you have to get that key
• 58:53
  back. So what happens is your app
• 58:55
  installs and looks in your cloud and says, hey, I found this
• 58:57
  payload, but it's encrypted. If you can decrypt it, there's
• 59:00
  probably a key in here. Go to your trusted contact, your
• 59:04
  recovery contact and get them to give you the decryption key.
• 59:08
  And so the, the role that this recovery contact plays is they
• 59:14
  just have to basically identify you and say, Oh yeah, you're
• 59:16
  really you. I'm going to give you this
• 59:18
  description key. And So what we, what we suggest
• 59:20
  for sort of the very security minded folks is tell your
• 59:23
  recovery contact upfront. I never want you to give this
• 59:25
  decryption key to anyone unless we, you and I meet in person.
• 59:28
  I don't want to worry about the I fix.
• 59:29
  I don't want to worry about phone calls.
• 59:30
  Like let's meet in person, verify that it's me really
• 59:33
  asking, then deliver the key. Now you can decrypt this
• 59:36
  payload. Once it's decrypted, you've got
• 59:38
  one key back. And now that you've got one key
• 59:40
  back, you can go through the standard recovery process, multi
• 59:42
  sig recovery process to recover your wallet.
• 59:44
  And so this recovery contact system is super powerful and
• 59:49
  they never see anything about your wallet.
• 59:51
  They never see a key, they never see a balance, they never see a
• 59:53
  descriptor. They're just playing this role
• 59:56
  of an encryption decryption, basically a permissioned
• 1:00:00
  encryption decryption point, but it's permissioned on your
• 1:00:03
  personal relationship. And so we thought that was.
• 1:00:05
  Was a really powerful tool to make these wallets more
• 1:00:08
  recoverable. So, Jonathan, one of the things
• 1:00:10
  that you mentioned earlier that I want to go back to, which is
• 1:00:13
  you said, and you kind of buried the lead when you said this, and
• 1:00:16
  I'm very curious to hear what your thoughts are on this.
• 1:00:18
  You said, Nico, this isn't just a wallet for people getting into
• 1:00:24
  Bitcoin. This is a wallet for Bitcoiners
• 1:00:27
  of all levels. There's a tremendous amount of,
• 1:00:31
  you know, of, of, of of I'm a media person, so forgive me if I
• 1:00:36
  butcher the terminology. There's a, there's a tremendous
• 1:00:38
  amount of tech behind this. So could you walk us through
• 1:00:43
  that tech, right? Like, is there a secure element
• 1:00:46
  in here? Like how do bitcoiner, how, how
• 1:00:49
  are bitcoiners ensured that you know, because at the end of the
• 1:00:53
  day, you know, this is, this is seedless.
• 1:00:55
  This is, this is the way that the product was designed.
• 1:00:59
  What was the philosophy behind it?
• 1:01:01
  What, what is the tech here? You know that people are are are
• 1:01:05
  are using to to entrust their basically store their Bitcoin
• 1:01:09
  on. Could you walk us through all of
• 1:01:10
  that? Yeah, totally would love to.
• 1:01:12
  So maybe I'll start a little bit on the seedless philosophy and
• 1:01:17
  then move into sort of the tech that sort of makes that even a
• 1:01:20
  possibility. And so when we first started
• 1:01:23
  looking into creating a, a Bitcoin wallet, our, our guiding
• 1:01:29
  light was really this idea of safety.
• 1:01:31
  And, and often I think people use the word security.
• 1:01:34
  And we, we wanted to broaden at that definition because security
• 1:01:39
  is really sort of protection from like attacks.
• 1:01:42
  And we really wanted to broaden it to not only protection of
• 1:01:45
  attacks with your security, but also usability.
• 1:01:49
  Like how, how easy it is it or how hard is it to to kind of
• 1:01:53
  screw yourself to just make a mistake to get your seed phrase
• 1:01:56
  fished, to accidentally open it up in front of a computer camera
• 1:02:01
  or connected to the Internet by by accident.
• 1:02:04
  And so really looking at usability as a pillar of safety
• 1:02:07
  and then finally looking at privacy as a pillar of safety.
• 1:02:11
  And when we kind of take it together, we, we say we really
• 1:02:14
  want to be sort of the safest wallet.
• 1:02:16
  And it's, it's a matter of balancing those.
• 1:02:19
  And if you can increase the security, but you also at the
• 1:02:21
  same time increase the chance that people make a mistake.
• 1:02:23
  Like, did you really help them keep their Bitcoin and.
• 1:02:27
  So, OK, so because again, you're that part is so you don't
• 1:02:33
  understand this has happened to me more.
• 1:02:37
  OK, this has happened not to me personally, but experiencing
• 1:02:41
  this with people, right? This situation, what what
• 1:02:45
  Jonathan just described has happened to me more than someone
• 1:02:49
  saying, dude, someone stole my seed phrase, right.
• 1:02:54
  You know what the call that I've received the most throughout the
• 1:02:56
  years is Nico. I think I lost my seed phrase or
• 1:03:01
  Nico. I don't know where my seed
• 1:03:03
  phrase is or Nico. I have you know, I have AI have
• 1:03:08
  this hardware wallet. I'm fine, right?
• 1:03:11
  I I, I, I lost the paper and then I have to explain to them
• 1:03:14
  like or, or the plate or whatever.
• 1:03:17
  And I'm like, dude, I'd have to explain to them.
• 1:03:18
  I'm like the C words are your money, right?
• 1:03:23
  And, and then and for them, they, they're like, what do you
• 1:03:25
  mean? Like they go crazy, they lose
• 1:03:27
  their minds. But this is that part.
• 1:03:31
  I think you don't do it enough justice when you said, when you
• 1:03:37
  described it, when you described it, because again, that is the
• 1:03:41
  you guys designed this product for human beings, right?
• 1:03:45
  Like this is what I'm thinking of when I see the big key.
• 1:03:48
  When I use the big key, it's human friendly, right?
• 1:03:52
  And the reality is, is that look, you know, I'm a nerd
• 1:03:56
  Opti's a nerd. We've been in Bitcoin for, for
• 1:04:00
  for a minute now at this point. So you talk to us about a seed
• 1:04:05
  words and you know, and that's it.
• 1:04:07
  And I and I, and I do this with my eyes closed, right?
• 1:04:09
  Like I, I, I, I, because I've, I've done it all.
• 1:04:12
  I've, I've, I've made the mistakes.
• 1:04:14
  I've manually set up multi sig wallets like I've, I've
• 1:04:17
  literally experimented and, and, and Jonathan, just based on our
• 1:04:20
  conversations, I'm a 1000% sure you have done this as well.
• 1:04:26
  This is not easy stuff to use. It's just not, it's just not
• 1:04:31
  easy to use. And what you guys have figured
• 1:04:33
  out with this is you get all the benefits of a multi sig
• 1:04:38
  collaborative custody wallet that all you have to do is tap
• 1:04:44
  on your phone to spend. Let's say you lose the bit key,
• 1:04:48
  you could still recover it. You use your phone, you could
• 1:04:50
  still lose your phone, you could still recover it.
• 1:04:54
  It's it's almost as if you made it, you know, with the thinking
• 1:04:58
  that, you know, people weren't going to be people weren't going
• 1:05:02
  to take self custody of their Bitcoin if it wasn't easy
• 1:05:06
  enough. And I think that's something
• 1:05:08
  that a lot of bitcoiners for the better or for worse, I don't
• 1:05:12
  know what it is. You know what it reminds me of
• 1:05:17
  Jonathan? It reminds me of like the, the
• 1:05:19
  whole idea in the 90s was that every single person was going to
• 1:05:23
  have a computer in their homes. Like that was the theory.
• 1:05:25
  The theory in the 90s was every single person was going to have
• 1:05:28
  a computer in their homes. And you would picture that as
• 1:05:32
  everyone was going to have a keyboard and a like a like a, a
• 1:05:37
  monitor and a mouse, right? That theory was wrong.
• 1:05:42
  But the theory that everyone was going to have a computer in
• 1:05:44
  their homes was absolutely right.
• 1:05:47
  And that computer was this right.
• 1:05:50
  They made it human friendly. And that's when you had this
• 1:05:54
  mass adoption of computers, right?
• 1:05:58
  Rather than like this thing, which again, it's still like
• 1:06:03
  laptops are more used than they were than they were back then.
• 1:06:07
  But what's used more this or this, because they're
• 1:06:10
  essentially the same thing. They're both computers, but one
• 1:06:13
  is more human friendly. So I, I love to bring up that
• 1:06:16
  analogy because it describes the my experience with this device,
• 1:06:21
  which is you've made something incredibly complex easy to use
• 1:06:26
  for the everyday person. And what you're making the case
• 1:06:29
  for Jonathan as well is that you you haven't sacrificed security
• 1:06:34
  or privacy in order to do so. Totally.
• 1:06:38
  Yeah. Well, and I think and I think to
• 1:06:40
  kind of like continue sort of this basically our thinking as
• 1:06:45
  we as we started developing the the this product.
• 1:06:48
  And I do want to answer your question that you started with,
• 1:06:50
  which is like, you know, and the architecture.
• 1:06:52
  But like I, I really wanted to kind of spend the time sort of
• 1:06:55
  taking you through the journey we went through to, to get
• 1:06:57
  there. And so like it, it sort of
• 1:06:59
  started from the first principles of like what are the
• 1:07:01
  goals and the goals are safety being cut in kind of this
• 1:07:03
  broader definition of safety. And then we looked at, OK, well,
• 1:07:08
  how do you, how do you achieve that?
• 1:07:09
  And, and sort of in that framing, you look at seed
• 1:07:12
  phrases and seed phrases are a tool.
• 1:07:15
  A lot of people think seed phrases and, and private keys
• 1:07:18
  are the same thing. I'm sure a lot of your audience
• 1:07:21
  realizes that they're not. But one of the most common
• 1:07:23
  conversations we have at conferences is explaining this
• 1:07:26
  to people, which is, you know, Bitcoin existed long before seed
• 1:07:30
  phrases existed. And seed phrases were a great
• 1:07:32
  breakthrough. And there's some scenarios in
• 1:07:34
  which like seed phrases are the only tool for the job, like, you
• 1:07:38
  know, fleeing some country with 12 words in your head and
• 1:07:42
  basically having like Bitcoin in your brain is like pure magic.
• 1:07:46
  And that's, that I think is one of the coolest, coolest things
• 1:07:48
  I've ever seen. But at its core, seed phrases
• 1:07:52
  are a tool to recreate a, to recreate a private key.
• 1:07:55
  They're a recovery tool. And they're also a portability
• 1:07:59
  tool to be able to sort of unilaterally move your Bitcoin
• 1:08:03
  without relying on anyone else. And so we looked at that and we
• 1:08:06
  said, OK, well, if those are the two goals, recoverability and,
• 1:08:09
  you know, unilateral exit, can you accomplish that with other
• 1:08:12
  tools that are that are safer? And that's really what sort of
• 1:08:16
  sent us down this road of how much Bitcoin has been lost due
• 1:08:20
  to seed phrase mismanagement. Whether it's like a mistake that
• 1:08:24
  you make, whether it's being fished, being tricked into
• 1:08:29
  giving up your seed phrase, or even things like natural
• 1:08:31
  disasters or house fires, or, you know, there's, there's a
• 1:08:34
  million things that could go wrong.
• 1:08:36
  And are they the most resilient form of recovery?
• 1:08:40
  And so when we got deep into it, what we realized was, no, we
• 1:08:43
  don't think so. We think seed phrases are the
• 1:08:45
  source of loss for many, many people.
• 1:08:47
  And I, I know this from like personal stories in, in my own
• 1:08:49
  life. That sounds like you do too.
• 1:08:52
  And So what we, what we wanted to do is we said, OK, well, why
• 1:08:54
  don't we base the recovery more heavily on multi sig than on
• 1:08:58
  seed phrases, use sort of transactions as the primitive
• 1:09:02
  to, to escape the wallet. And what kind of system can we
• 1:09:05
  build? And so that kind of leads us
• 1:09:07
  into the architecture that we ended up with, which is we have
• 1:09:10
  the hardware unit, which has a secure element, has open source
• 1:09:13
  firmware. And one of the really cool
• 1:09:15
  things about big key hardware that is kind of unique in the
• 1:09:18
  hardware space is the key cannot leave the device.
• 1:09:21
  And that's, that's kind of a really profound thing.
• 1:09:23
  Like every other hardware wallet.
• 1:09:27
  You, the very first thing you do when you set it up is you export
• 1:09:29
  the seed phrase and it's like, OK, you know, you go, you go
• 1:09:32
  protect it. And when a hardware wallet
• 1:09:34
  exports its seed phrase, it basically is saying, Hey, I am
• 1:09:38
  giving up the most important secret in this whole setup.
• 1:09:41
  And so the hardware wallet at that point is not playing the
• 1:09:45
  role of like a vault. It's instead kind of playing the
• 1:09:47
  role of a pen. It's a it's a signer.
• 1:09:49
  It generates keys securely and it signs transactions securely.
• 1:09:53
  But when it comes to protecting the secret, making sure that
• 1:09:57
  it's not lost in in, you know, a fire or handling recovery, it
• 1:10:02
  it's solution is to hand you a seed phrase.
• 1:10:04
  And so big key is unique in that it's hardware does not export
• 1:10:08
  the seed. There is one copy of your key in
• 1:10:11
  the entire world and it is in a secure physical device that it
• 1:10:16
  can't come out of. There aren't even the AP is to
• 1:10:18
  extract the keys. And so that makes the hardware
• 1:10:21
  this super secure key. Then the second key lives on
• 1:10:25
  your phone and it's managed by the app and the security of the
• 1:10:29
  phone, the biometrics of the phone, the sort of secure like
• 1:10:34
  key chains and secure enclaves. And that's also an open source
• 1:10:37
  system. You can look at the code, you
• 1:10:39
  can, it's reproducible on Android.
• 1:10:41
  And that's your second key. Now that's the key that we use
• 1:10:45
  to create backups. And the backup is like I
• 1:10:47
  explained earlier in the in the show about recovery contacts,
• 1:10:50
  because that key is on your phone and we can encrypt it and
• 1:10:52
  put it in places. That's the key that is like
• 1:10:54
  very, very hard to lose because of all the various ways you can
• 1:10:58
  use to protect it. And then finally you've got the
• 1:11:01
  key on the key servers. And Block has been in the
• 1:11:06
  Bitcoin business for a long time.
• 1:11:08
  They run cash up one of the largest US exchanges.
• 1:11:10
  Block has a lot of experience storing keys safely and storing
• 1:11:14
  Bitcoin safely. And so these these keys kind of
• 1:11:17
  that are that are stored in at block are held just for your
• 1:11:22
  usage in our sort of enterprise grade security system.
• 1:11:25
  And those are the three keys that make up your wallet.
• 1:11:28
  And like I was explaining before, losing one key, either
• 1:11:31
  your phone or your hardware is a very easy multi sig solution,
• 1:11:35
  losing both your phone and the hardware.
• 1:11:37
  We have a trusted contact recovery contact system that
• 1:11:40
  lets you recover from that case. And then on top of that, we have
• 1:11:44
  a inheritance system where you can designate another bit key
• 1:11:48
  wallet as a beneficiary of your Bitcoin if you're no longer
• 1:11:51
  around. And so like taking all of those
• 1:11:53
  things together and and we do it all privately.
• 1:11:55
  We do it with this cool multi sig technology that we invented,
• 1:11:58
  published a bit on and we do this all never seeing your
• 1:12:01
  balance and so or without without having your descriptor
• 1:12:06
  so that we can't even like examine the blockchain to
• 1:12:10
  determine what transactions belong to your wallet.
• 1:12:12
  And so that's kind of the basic architecture of Bitkey and, you
• 1:12:17
  know, some of the motivation of how we ended up there.
• 1:12:20
  No, it's, it's, it's super cool. Again, I think that this is
• 1:12:23
  going to accelerate more people taking Bitcoin into self
• 1:12:27
  custody. One of the concerns Opti and I
• 1:12:29
  have had this year was that this year, you know, and Jonathan,
• 1:12:34
  I'm sure that you are on Bitcoin Twitter or Bitcoin X.
• 1:12:38
  You know, this is paper Bitcoin summer, right?
• 1:12:40
  So you had this massive rise of these ETFs and I and I feel
• 1:12:45
  like, you know, for the first time really since I've been in
• 1:12:48
  Bitcoin, like people have forgot the power of self custody,
• 1:12:52
  right? Like they, they, they forgot
• 1:12:54
  like what the, you know, what the goal of Bitcoin was, which
• 1:12:57
  is individuals reclaiming back their financial sovereignty in
• 1:13:01
  the way that you do that is by having your keys in self
• 1:13:03
  custody, right. And I think I think that this
• 1:13:06
  product, again, to use the computer analogy earlier, is
• 1:13:13
  human friendly. And I think that is incredibly,
• 1:13:16
  incredibly, incredibly important because either people get
• 1:13:19
  intimidated by self custody and once they get intimidated by
• 1:13:22
  self custody, what do they default to?
• 1:13:24
  They default to, you know, just. Exchanges.
• 1:13:28
  Custodial Solutions. Custodial solutions, right and,
• 1:13:32
  and I, and I also think that I, and I'm also thanking you as
• 1:13:36
  well because I know for a fact that now my family isn't going
• 1:13:40
  to give me so many calls when it comes to, you know, spending
• 1:13:46
  spending or using their Bitcoin. So I'm going to pass it on to
• 1:13:49
  Opti because Opti, you know, you've been in this game
• 1:13:52
  basically as long as I have, bro.
• 1:13:54
  And you know, you've, you've had, you've played the Uncle Jim
• 1:13:57
  role a couple of times as well. What was your first reaction?
• 1:14:02
  You know, using this thing? Well, First off, the packaging,
• 1:14:05
  opening it up, I was like, man, this is sexy.
• 1:14:07
  And Nico keeps saying human friendly.
• 1:14:11
  And I don't want to go so far as say like is the bit key the
• 1:14:14
  iPhone moment for hardware wallets?
• 1:14:16
  But it almost feels like that because it's just like it's such
• 1:14:19
  a sexy little device. It's so easy to use.
• 1:14:22
  And as much as bit corners are very big on security, you know,
• 1:14:26
  that's like security. Privacy is one of the biggest
• 1:14:28
  things like we've seen, you know, year one of the things
• 1:14:31
  we've been talking about is like, is Wall Street going to
• 1:14:35
  really corner the market because maybe self custody is that choke
• 1:14:39
  point. I'm just it it might feel like
• 1:14:42
  bit key is a breakthrough on that idea that OK, make it
• 1:14:46
  simple again, but you don't sacrifice anything super easy to
• 1:14:50
  use. Everyone can use it and they're
• 1:14:52
  not going to get like scared away.
• 1:14:54
  You don't have to really remember your process of setting
• 1:14:57
  up your hardware wallet is just like tap and go, you're good to
• 1:14:59
  go. So I, I'm really just excited to
• 1:15:03
  see if this helps more people take self custody of Bitcoin
• 1:15:06
  because that's what we're always about.
• 1:15:08
  Look, we cover the news. ETF has been the biggest news
• 1:15:11
  story this year. You know, the Wall Street banks
• 1:15:15
  are coming into Bitcoin. They're literally marketing
• 1:15:18
  their products for custody. Like, hey, trust us, bro.
• 1:15:21
  We know how to do this. And we just keep saying it's
• 1:15:24
  like, what is stopping people from custodying their own
• 1:15:27
  Bitcoin? And I think it's ease of use and
• 1:15:30
  and you guys might have just solved that one.
• 1:15:32
  So, you know, kudos to the product.
• 1:15:35
  Thank you. I, I, I really appreciate, I
• 1:15:36
  mean, I'm glad that that's, that's, it's really
• 1:15:39
  heartwarming. That's your reaction because one
• 1:15:41
  of the things that was like really important to us in the
• 1:15:43
  very early days of the product was just this observation that
• 1:15:46
  like is custodial Bitcoin growing faster than self
• 1:15:51
  custody, custody Bitcoin because that's bad news for everyone.
• 1:15:54
  And you know, the, the superpowers of Bitcoin come from
• 1:15:57
  its self custody nature. It's the the, the trust, no one
• 1:16:01
  aspect of it. And if people, when they get
• 1:16:06
  into the space, start on a custodial solution and never
• 1:16:08
  leave because of ease of use, like that's really bad for
• 1:16:12
  Bitcoin long term. And so we really wanted to build
• 1:16:16
  something that helped kind of stem that that flow of of people
• 1:16:21
  into custodial solutions and really invigorate kind of the
• 1:16:24
  growth of self custody. And so like that, I think is the
• 1:16:27
  really like zooming out the top line metric of like the whole
• 1:16:31
  sort of hardware wallet self custody industry is like, can we
• 1:16:35
  get self custody to grow faster than custodial solutions?
• 1:16:37
  And that's like a very tall order, but like, it's what we
• 1:16:40
  got to shoot for for the long term success of Bitcoin.
• 1:16:45
  Yeah, 100. Percent I, I again, I, you guys
• 1:16:50
  have really, really innovative here, Jonathan with this thing.
• 1:16:54
  And it again, it's, it makes self custody seamless.
• 1:16:59
  I think would be the correct word of the correct way of
• 1:17:01
  describing it. And I know that you guys have
• 1:17:03
  recently announced direct to from direct from cash app.
• 1:17:09
  I think strike is another one. Our our, our lead sponsor
• 1:17:14
  Bitcoin. Well, it's it's self custody by
• 1:17:16
  default. So again, it's buy Bitcoin, go
• 1:17:19
  straight to yourself custody Bitcoin wallet, but it's it's
• 1:17:22
  integrated into a lot of these apps as well.
• 1:17:25
  So it makes the IT makes taking self custody so seamless.
• 1:17:29
  Guys, I don't think you understand like back in the day,
• 1:17:33
  there were no hardware wallets, right?
• 1:17:35
  Like there was there was paper wallets, right?
• 1:17:37
  Like that was the thing, right? So the fact that it's it's as
• 1:17:40
  simple as like literally 123 you can buy from the app.
• 1:17:45
  Is that correct, Jonathan? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:17:47
  So, so that I mean that that's a it's a really cool feature at
• 1:17:51
  large. I mean, what, what you can do is
• 1:17:53
  we we just announced this sort of 0 fee 0 spread purchase on
• 1:17:59
  cash app promotion where you can actually saw a, an ex post about
• 1:18:04
  this morning. Someone was saying, Hey, I got
• 1:18:07
  my paycheck direct deposited into cash App directly turned
• 1:18:12
  into Bitcoin and then transferred into my bit key all
• 1:18:18
  seamlessly. No, no fees, no spreads and so
• 1:18:21
  like the power of this like new financial system on Bitcoin is
• 1:18:26
  like coming together and again. This is another cool thing about
• 1:18:29
  working at block. Is there so many different
• 1:18:30
  dimensions between Cash App and all the Bitcoin products they
• 1:18:34
  offer? The Square terminals now
• 1:18:37
  accepting Bitcoin and allowing merchants to convert sales into
• 1:18:40
  into Bitcoin. Cash App users being able to
• 1:18:44
  spend in Bitcoin directly from their cash App, whether it's
• 1:18:47
  they have ausd balance or a Bitcoin balance.
• 1:18:50
  We're working on miners. We have an open source spiral
• 1:18:56
  team that does a lot of lightning work and all sorts of
• 1:18:58
  cool open source projects. And like there's just so much
• 1:19:01
  Bitcoin stuff going on at block and the synergies between these
• 1:19:03
  products. And so yes, to get to your
• 1:19:05
  question, one of the one of the features in Bitkey is this
• 1:19:09
  partnership integration tab where you can request a quote
• 1:19:12
  from multiple partners and whichever partner you choose,
• 1:19:15
  you can choose on price. It lets you compare the prices
• 1:19:17
  fairly. It links you directly into the
• 1:19:20
  partner experience and connects the wallet address or sends the
• 1:19:25
  wallet address for you. So you're not copy and pasting
• 1:19:29
  addresses or trying to make sure that like all of the, you know,
• 1:19:34
  all of the digits match and you weren't sort of attacked with
• 1:19:36
  some man in the middle in the process.
• 1:19:38
  Like we wanted it to be as seamless as possible and as safe
• 1:19:42
  as possible to get your Bitcoin off of an exchange and into the
• 1:19:45
  wallet. And so these integrations make
• 1:19:47
  that just a one click experience.
• 1:19:49
  You never have to. You never have to deal with copy
• 1:19:52
  and pasting addresses between locations to try to get your
• 1:19:57
  Bitcoin to move. Again, it's the iPhone, the
• 1:19:59
  iPhone moment of of Bitcoin hardware watts.
• 1:20:02
  I'm I'm I'm sticking. To it I hey I I don't want to be
• 1:20:05
  hyperbolic here, but it feels like it.
• 1:20:07
  Like the copy paste and then you like look, I, I again, I've been
• 1:20:11
  doing this for a while. I still get paranoid.
• 1:20:13
  Like I still, yeah, of course I still check the address and I'm
• 1:20:17
  like, like looking through and you know, and all that stuff.
• 1:20:19
  So again, the, the, the fact that you guys have taken away
• 1:20:24
  that extra step, I think is gonna help so much more people
• 1:20:29
  take self custody of of of their Bitcoin.
• 1:20:31
  And I think that's how we win. Like that's that's really how
• 1:20:34
  Bitcoin wins as individuals taking self custody of their
• 1:20:38
  Bitcoin. So Jonathan, it's been an honor
• 1:20:41
  having you on today, guys. Jonathan is the product lead for
• 1:20:44
  bit key. This is incredible, this
• 1:20:47
  incredible device and like I said guys, I've been here for a
• 1:20:51
  while and this just makes it so seamless.
• 1:20:54
  The headaches just go away, the security is there, the privacy
• 1:20:58
  there, that bit protocol that you guys interest so fascinating
• 1:21:02
  collaborative custody, but without without without showing
• 1:21:08
  any of of the transactions, any of the balances.
• 1:21:11
  That's super, super, super cool. Jonathan would love to have you
• 1:21:14
  back on the show to do more, a more deep dive on that, on that
• 1:21:17
  bit, man, because super, super cool what you guys are are
• 1:21:21
  building over there. Awesome.
• 1:21:23
  Well, thank you. Thank you for having me.
• 1:21:24
  I, I and I really appreciate all the all the kind words and glad
• 1:21:27
  that you and your family like it.
• 1:21:28
  It. It really is motivating to work
• 1:21:31
  on a product that that people love.
• 1:21:33
  And so it's so so thank you. You guys hit it absolutely out
• 1:21:36
  of the park. Jonathan, thank you so much for
• 1:21:38
  joining us on Simply Bitcoin today, bro.
• 1:21:40
  We really appreciate it. Thank you.
• 1:21:43
  All right, everybody, we still got the news segment for you
• 1:21:46
  guys. We still got a lot to talk
• 1:21:48
  about. You guys are going to want to
• 1:21:50
  stay tuned. It is the Friday special.
• 1:21:52
  We're going to be right back in just a little bit.
• 1:21:57
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  All right, everybody, breaking news again on the regulatory
• 1:23:57
  front. Our friends over at TFTC posted
• 1:24:02
  this coming out of the CFTC. Was that on purpose?
• 1:24:08
  CFTCCFTC. That's that's kind of funny.
• 1:24:11
  Wait, wait, wait. My dad jokes are just getting
• 1:24:18
  worse anyways, so check this out.
• 1:24:21
  Breaking news ladies and gentlemen, the CFTC just ended
• 1:24:25
  the offshore crypto era. Spot Bitcoin on federally
• 1:24:29
  regulated exchanges, perpetuals options, full federal oversight,
• 1:24:34
  bit nominal live. December 9th, the US is poised
• 1:24:38
  to lead this market. Here's the official press
• 1:24:44
  release or I don't know, it's not called the press release.
• 1:24:47
  The the official release. December 4th, 2025 The
• 1:24:52
  Commodities Future Trading Commission Acting Chairman
• 1:24:55
  Carolyn D Pham today announced that listed spot cryptocurrency
• 1:24:59
  products will begin trading for the first time in US federally
• 1:25:04
  regulated markets on CFTC registrated future exchanges.
• 1:25:08
  The announcement marks a significant step forward in the
• 1:25:11
  Trump administration's plan to usher in a golden age of
• 1:25:15
  innovation and make America the crypto capital of the world.
• 1:25:18
  Quote The CFTC TC has a rich history of welcoming responsible
• 1:25:22
  innovation on futures exchanges by balancing regulatory
• 1:25:26
  flexibility with core principles that safeguard both
• 1:25:30
  institutional and retail investors.
• 1:25:32
  Thanks to President Trump's leadership, this administration
• 1:25:35
  has developed a comprehensive all of government plan for
• 1:25:38
  America to reclaim its place as the world leader in digital
• 1:25:43
  asset markets, and the CFTC has a central role to play, Acting
• 1:25:47
  Chairman Pham said. Recent events on offshore
• 1:25:50
  exchanges have shown us how essential it is for Americans to
• 1:25:54
  have more choice and access to safe, regulated U.S. markets.
• 1:25:58
  Now for the first time, however, spot crypto can trade on CFTC
• 1:26:03
  registered exchanges that have been the gold standard for
• 1:26:06
  nearly 100 years with the customer protections and market
• 1:26:10
  integrity that Americans deserve.
• 1:26:13
  So again, it's the the you know, the legitimization of Bitcoin in
• 1:26:20
  in just the regulatory environment.
• 1:26:22
  You had the genius act that that happened earlier on this year.
• 1:26:27
  It was passed and again, you had the you had the Clarity Act,
• 1:26:33
  which is on the verge of being passed as well.
• 1:26:37
  Opti, I want to get your takes on this man again.
• 1:26:39
  It's the further legitimization of Bitcoin.
• 1:26:43
  We went again, we went from Operation Choke .2 point O last
• 1:26:48
  year, right? All the regulatory hurdles that
• 1:26:50
  we were experiencing to basically being embraced, that's
• 1:26:54
  pretty crazy. What are your What's your take
• 1:26:56
  off? Yeah, well, I believe it was
• 1:26:59
  earlier this, I think it was earlier this week.
• 1:27:01
  Sorry, guys. I, I keep forgetting the days of
• 1:27:03
  all these news stories because it seems like there's so much
• 1:27:06
  news happening every day. But we, I believe it was again,
• 1:27:10
  the beginning of the week. We saw the SEC chair, Paul
• 1:27:13
  Atkins essentially say that look, they're waiting for the
• 1:27:18
  Clarity Act. They he thinks it's going to
• 1:27:20
  happen very soon. But at the tail end of the clip
• 1:27:23
  that we played for you guys, he did mention that the SEC and the
• 1:27:27
  CFTC are kind of working together to make sure that, you
• 1:27:33
  know, they're more aligned and it's more favorable and
• 1:27:35
  obviously thanks to Trump, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
• 1:27:38
  So it is very interesting that we are seeing the kind of some
• 1:27:43
  follow through finally on the regulatory front.
• 1:27:45
  I know from like a more hardcore Bitcoin perspective you're like
• 1:27:48
  look free for all, you know, like get out of the way, I'm
• 1:27:52
  totally with that. But from AI, think a like I, I
• 1:27:57
  don't want to say normie investor, but like from a more
• 1:27:59
  Main Street type, legitimate professional investor.
• 1:28:03
  Like these are the things that will kind of incentivize them to
• 1:28:06
  go full force into Bitcoin because that is one of the kind
• 1:28:09
  of running memes. Whether we like it or not,
• 1:28:12
  Bitcoin is still sort of, well, maybe not anymore, but has been
• 1:28:15
  for a long time, like the Wild West of finance.
• 1:28:18
  It has got a lot of bad rap. There has been a lot of shady
• 1:28:21
  stuff happening. Like, if we're being honest,
• 1:28:23
  there's been a lot of scammers and fraud in the industry.
• 1:28:26
  And so as much as I'm not one to necessarily cheer on the
• 1:28:30
  regulations, you guys know me, sometimes I'm a little cautious
• 1:28:33
  because I feel I fear over regulation.
• 1:28:37
  This this is a fundamental shift from what we've seen in the
• 1:28:41
  past. And and I don't know if you saw
• 1:28:43
  this morning, guys, but like Gary Gensler was on Bloomberg
• 1:28:46
  again, basically saying like, yeah, there's Bitcoin and then
• 1:28:49
  there's everything else. But even even the space is just
• 1:28:52
  built on speculation. And you should be very cautious.
• 1:28:55
  Like I think these movements will kind of make people feel a
• 1:29:00
  little more comfortable putting a a significant amount of wealth
• 1:29:03
  in the Bitcoin. But on my more, I would say
• 1:29:06
  maybe like tinfoil hat, you know, conversation here, which
• 1:29:10
  you guys love. For me, it does seem like this
• 1:29:13
  move. It's very interesting when you
• 1:29:16
  consider the CZ pardon as well, because we all know Binance is
• 1:29:20
  one of the biggest offshore exchanges there.
• 1:29:23
  Well, not just the biggest offshore exchanges, but one of
• 1:29:25
  the biggest exchanges in general.
• 1:29:29
  So it does make it seem like they are trying to get a lot of
• 1:29:32
  that capital to come back on shore, at least in the US again,
• 1:29:36
  the quote Bitcoin superpower of the world.
• 1:29:39
  So I, I think this might be an angle to kind of, you know,
• 1:29:43
  position themselves in those markets, which is going to be
• 1:29:46
  very interesting. I I doubt they're going to go
• 1:29:48
  like full D Gen. you know, Bitmex Binance, like 100 X
• 1:29:51
  leverage or anything on these things.
• 1:29:53
  So they're they're still probably some appetite from
• 1:29:56
  bitcoiners to go to these offshore exchanges, but it is, I
• 1:30:00
  think finally, like for better or worse, there's finally some
• 1:30:04
  follow through on, you know, different regulatory fronts
• 1:30:09
  here. Look, I I don't know, I mean, is
• 1:30:12
  this going to make people more comfortable coming into Bitcoin?
• 1:30:15
  Will there be some kind of over regulation that like side
• 1:30:18
  effects trade-offs that were unaware of?
• 1:30:20
  Potentially, but it does look like a more unified regulatory
• 1:30:27
  front from the SEC and the CFTC. It might be beneficial for the
• 1:30:30
  whole industry at large. Again, everyone's been saying
• 1:30:33
  for years like what? What's the meme?
• 1:30:35
  They say, you know, we just need some clear some clear rules to
• 1:30:39
  the road when we've been for so long, basically you in in this
• 1:30:43
  space and and anyone building a business has been like ruled by
• 1:30:47
  enforcement. Like, hey, you, you kind of know
• 1:30:49
  what's going on, but you only really know when you get hit
• 1:30:52
  with a fine. And you know, Gary Gensler wants
• 1:30:55
  to make a point out of you. Now it seems like there are some
• 1:30:57
  clear rules to the road. So maybe, maybe, maybe
• 1:31:01
  beneficial. It seems beneficial, but who
• 1:31:04
  knows? Look.
• 1:31:05
  I, I, I was promised that we were gonna have fun with our
• 1:31:10
  Bitcoins and that Bitcoin was going to the moon.
• 1:31:12
  OK, So I'm very happy about the regulatory.
• 1:31:15
  Yeah. Is this us having fun with our
• 1:31:17
  bitcoins? Like, I'm really happy with the
• 1:31:18
  regulatory developments. I'm super happy with that.
• 1:31:21
  You know, it's great. It's a step in the right
• 1:31:23
  direction. It's better than our industry,
• 1:31:26
  you know, being attacked in the right from the regulatory front.
• 1:31:29
  But at the same time, I, I, I wanna see number go up.
• 1:31:32
  Bro, Capcom motherfucking boy. I want to see number go up.
• 1:31:39
  I want to see number go up. That's where I'm at right now.
• 1:31:42
  Yeah, I want to see number go up in the elimination of cap gains
• 1:31:47
  3 to have money bars and then we're winning.
• 1:31:49
  Bars All right, everybody. Well, I hope you guys enjoyed
• 1:31:52
  today's show. If you guys want to support
• 1:31:55
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  It's not tag, it's it's A tag. It's just not like that.
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  It's, it's not like it's a printed tag.
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  It's on the shirt. The uncomfortable tag right that
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  you want to cut off with the cigarette, with the, with the,
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  with the scissor with the cigarette with the, with the.
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  Yeah, yeah, Let's just wrap up the show.
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  Nico saying crazy things today. Listen, it's.
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  guys, we love you. We appreciate you all smash the
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• 1:33:22
  Enjoy your weekend. Go outside, touch some grass,
• 1:33:26
  get some sun, get some sunlight on your face.
• 1:33:29
  This is great. Enjoy the weekend, enjoy the
• 1:33:33
  time with your family. This is not great.
• 1:33:35
  These blue lights are not. This is not sun.
• 1:33:37
  This is not great. This is not good.
• 1:33:39
  This is not good. But we love you guys and we'll
• 1:33:44
  see you on Monday for a brand new episode.
• 1:33:45
  Take care, everybody. Today's episode was brought to
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  you by bitcoinwell.com, a Bitcoin only platform on a
• 1:33:52
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