Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Hungry alligators or cheating wife? Who hid Florida hubby in watery grave?

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Hungry alligators or cheating wife? Who hid Florida hubby in watery grave? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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  Speaker 1: here dot com Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Can you
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: show me the area that you guys searched in? Makes
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  Speaker 1: you play? This area about five acres? Alton Renew and
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: David Arnette were among the first lawn horseman officers to
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: get a call about a missing duck hunter. What we
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: thought had happened? Is it he possibly fell out of
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  Speaker 1: the boat or capsized. Is it unusual for people to
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  Speaker 1: fall out of boats while they're hunting for ducks? It's
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  Speaker 1: not unusual. It happens quite awful out here, for he
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  Speaker 1: might hit a stump and throw him out. Early the
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  Speaker 1: next morning, there was a break. Mike's boat was found
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  Speaker 1: on board or some decoys and his shotgun, but no
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  Speaker 1: sign of Mike himself. What happened? Out duck hunting husband
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  Speaker 1: Mike Williams goes missing near Tallahassee, his body believed to
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  Speaker 1: be in the water. But oh what a tangled web
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  Speaker 1: we weave when first we practice to deceive. Nancy Grace
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  Speaker 1: here Crime Stories, thank you for being with us straight
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: out to John Limley Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: John Limley, how did this guy and sperienced hunter fall overboard?
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  Speaker 1: I mean, what dides buddy say about how he fell overboard?
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  Speaker 1: It was a complicated story, to say the very least.
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  Speaker 1: As Denise Williams begins the tale to police, on the
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  Speaker 1: morning of December sixteenth, her husband woke up early, leaving
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  Speaker 1: their house on Centennial Oak Circle well before dawn bowed
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  Speaker 1: and tow to go duck hunting at Lake Seminole. This
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: is a large reservoir just west northwest of Tallahassee. The
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: couple actually had plans to celebrate their sixth wedding anniversary
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  Speaker 1: that night in Appalachicola at noon. Denise, stop right there,
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  Speaker 1: Jile Emily, investigative reporter. Have you ever been to Appalachicola?
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: I have not. Actually, it is some of the prettiest
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  Speaker 1: beach I've ever seen in my life. Nobody seems to
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: know about it. And in Appalachicola, I'm telling you, you
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  Speaker 1: can get the best oysters in shrimp at this little
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  Speaker 1: place called Boss Oyster. And I have a very strong
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  Speaker 1: suspicion they may have been going there to celebrate I mean,
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  Speaker 1: Ashley Woolcott. This is on the Panhandle, and it is beautiful.
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  Speaker 1: It's really the salt life. Everybody has a boat, whether
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  Speaker 1: it's a little skiff or a big, beautiful, expensive thing.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: Everybody has a boat, even if it's tiny, and they
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  Speaker 1: are out on the water. They are fishing, they are
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  Speaker 1: living the salt life. I'm telling you, Ashley, you know
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: about the Panhandle, right, Yeah, I've been and I agree
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  Speaker 1: with you. It's absolutely gorgeous and it's a whole different
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: attitude because it is the salt life. They are on
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: the boat, they're enjoying life. They're out in the beautiful weather,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: beautiful beaches, beautiful fishing. Let me tell you a little story, Ashley.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: My dad who you know. Don't tell my husband, but
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: I still say he was my soul mate. It's from
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: a little city called well, it's not really a city
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: called Hey Cody. Yes, it's really a place Hey Cody.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: I think that's an Indian name. And it's near. To
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: give you a perspective, it is near Mobile. Okay, it's
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: near Sampson, which is near Mobile. That's how you have
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: to find it. So long story short, it's the Panhandle, Alabama.
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  Speaker 1: Florida Panhandle, and he grew up crabbing and fishing. And
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: I remember going to these exact spots as a little girl,
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  Speaker 1: and my sister and I were supposed to watch the
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  Speaker 1: crabs not get out of the net, and of course
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: they would, and we'd run away from the crabs. Okay,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: but the beaches are so deserted you could get them
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  Speaker 1: right back in. That's where they were. They were along
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: the Panhandle, but they were on Lake Seminole. And it
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: is not unusual, as this cop said, for people to
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  Speaker 1: fall in the water because so many people there are
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: boating and fishing. All right, sorry, John Lamley, I digress,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: go ahead, back to the store. Absolutely well. It was
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: at noon that same day that Denise calls her dad
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: to let him know that Mike had not come back.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: That's when her father hopped in his car drove with
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  Speaker 1: Mike's best friend, Brian Winchester, to the areas of the
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  Speaker 1: lake where they knew Mike Williams frequently went duck hunting.
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  Speaker 1: They were able to find his night. Wait a minute,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Wait a minute, the wife goes with the friend to
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  Speaker 1: look for him. It wasn't the friend with him when
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  Speaker 1: he fell in the water or no, well this is
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: this is later in the day that that Brian Winchester
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  Speaker 1: goes with them with the dad where they knew that
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: he went duck cutting and that's when they found the
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety You're so not answering my question. I'm asking you,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: John Limley, did the victim in this case go with
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  Speaker 1: his long time high school friend, Brian will Winchester duck hunting?
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  Speaker 1: And absolutely? Why were they? Okay, they were duck hunting
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  Speaker 1: out on a boat. Correct, So you go out into
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: the water to scare the ducks up out of stumps
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  Speaker 1: that are or swampy area. Is that why they were
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: out on the water shooting guns? Right, usually go into
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  Speaker 1: an area that is camouflaged by a lot of vegetation.
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  Speaker 1: How do you know that, John Limley, You've never really
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  Speaker 1: struck me as a hunter or out in a swamp.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: I try to research research, Well, okay, so you don't
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  Speaker 1: know firsthand? No, I do not, okay, Bober, doctor Daniel
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Bober forensic psychiatrists. I didn't really see you as the
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  Speaker 1: type out and no, not out in a boat and
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  Speaker 1: swamp with a gun shooting at ducks. Yes, no, maybe doctor,
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  Speaker 1: boat Okay, it's probably not me, Okay, all right, So
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: I'm down to Karen Smith. Karen Smith, you actually seen
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  Speaker 1: the most likely to go duck counting of this bunch.
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  Speaker 1: Does that make sense to you what they're saying. I
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  Speaker 1: have no idea. I have never duck hunted either, Okay,
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  Speaker 1: all right, So it's on me, all right. Actually, I
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  Speaker 1: guess you know there's a lot of stumps and growths
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  Speaker 1: and trees out in the middle of swampy area. So
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  Speaker 1: I guess the ducks are hiding there and you scare
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  Speaker 1: them up and shoot them. That's my guess. Okay. I
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: didn't see a gun or touchy gun until I was
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: a prosecutor, contrary to everyone's beliefs about the south Land.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: So they're out in a boat. Let me get back
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: to you, Limley. They're out in a boat. They're shooting ducks.
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  Speaker 1: And this is what I don't understand. The high school
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: friend they I mean they're grown now, is out fishing
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  Speaker 1: with I mean, shooting with him. Why are you telling me,
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  Speaker 1: Limley that they go back to where they think he was.
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  Speaker 1: Doesn't he know where he was? Well that's where the
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  Speaker 1: stories begin to get really tangled and confusing, because one
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: story is being told by Denice, another by Brian. He
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: comes back into the city and is now helping the
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  Speaker 1: dad look for his best friend, and so the timelines
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  Speaker 1: very clearly do not match up. Well, I don't see
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  Speaker 1: a problem so far. I don't even know what you're
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  Speaker 1: talking about, John Limley, because you're saying the friend Brian Winchester,
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  Speaker 1: goes out with Mike. They go duck hunting out in
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  Speaker 1: Lake Seminole, he falls overboard, the friend comes back, and
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  Speaker 1: then the wife gets involved. I don't see the inconsistency
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  Speaker 1: with that. Am I missing something because that's all I've
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  Speaker 1: heard from you so far. Well, the story at that
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  Speaker 1: point was that he didn't know fully what happened to
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  Speaker 1: his friend Mike. They were looking for for what happened
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  Speaker 1: to him. He's sitting in the boat and then he disappeared.
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  Speaker 1: You know what, that reminds me of, Ashley will kind.
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  Speaker 1: That reminds me one of my favorite shows, Bewitched. You know,
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  Speaker 1: actually just disappear. But that was a TV show, Ashley.
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  Speaker 1: People don't just disappear. Yeah, see, you can tell already
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  Speaker 1: the story is a little flimsy. And he said some
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  Speaker 1: stinks who fell overboard and then he was gone. It
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: stinks that's exactly right. Listen to our friend at CBS
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: forty eight hours, Mike Slussinger are talking with Alton Raimu
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  Speaker 1: and David Arnel. We've done a grid search, very slow,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: meticulous grid search, back and forth, old in search area,
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  Speaker 1: and what began as a search and rescue soon turned
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  Speaker 1: into a search for a body. We stayed with that
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  Speaker 1: grid until we covered this whole area. Couldaver dogs were
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  Speaker 1: brought in while teams scoured the murky bottom of Lake
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  Speaker 1: Seminole in a gruesome search for Mike's body that was
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  Speaker 1: high intensity and low tech. This is the tool of
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  Speaker 1: your trade, right that was that was actually one of
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: the poles. And all you do is put it in
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  Speaker 1: the water and see if you feel anything. If there's
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  Speaker 1: a log, there's kind of a thump, kind of a
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  Speaker 1: hard thump. If it would been her body, you hit it,
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  Speaker 1: it's kind of like a pillow. Did you feel something
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  Speaker 1: ever on the bottom that felt like a never Maybe
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: he just abandoned his family or something like that. That
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: that was the strongest scenario of everything that we had.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: It was do you believe that? I mean, did you
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  Speaker 1: think that was possible? I thought that was possibility. What
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  Speaker 1: did you think we knew Mike cannot run off? I
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: mean he loved his family and he adored his daughter,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: adored her, So Mike did not run off. This was
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  Speaker 1: not some elaborate ruse. Soon there was another explanation offered
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  Speaker 1: for why Mike's body could not be found, that he
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  Speaker 1: had been snatched by an alligator. Alligators, they don't eat
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: you right then, this is morbid to talk about, but
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  Speaker 1: they go stuff you somewhere for six months and then
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: come back later. One of the rescue teams agreed, writing
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  Speaker 1: the alligators have dismembered and have stored the remains in
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  Speaker 1: a location that we would not be able to find.
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  Speaker 1: What happened to husband and father Mike Williams. He goes
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  Speaker 1: out duck hunting and never comes back. Was it an
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  Speaker 1: elaborate ruse to get away from responsibility? Was he helped
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: by his high school friend Brian Winchester longtime best friend
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  Speaker 1: from high school? Or as he a fatality? Was his
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: body at the bottom of Lake Seminole being stored by
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  Speaker 1: an alligator dismembered joining me Ashley Wilcot, judge lawyer, You
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: can find her at Ashley Wilcot dot com, Karen Smith,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: renowned forensics expert, doctor Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, and joining
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: me right now. Crime online dot Com investigative reporter John Lmley. So, John,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: the friend Brian Winchester, I would have hooked him up
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  Speaker 1: to a polygraph pronto to figure out if he helped
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  Speaker 1: Mike Williams, you know, take a powder crap out on
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  Speaker 1: his wife and family. So the wife is in hysterics,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Denise Williams. You can't find Mike Williams anywhere, not as jacket,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: not anything belonging to him. Brian Winchester is the last
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  Speaker 1: one with him out in the middle of Lake Seminole
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  Speaker 1: on a boat, and then you get the final decision
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  Speaker 1: by the police. Will and alligators dismembered him and is
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: storing him for when he gets the munchies in about
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: six months. So that's what we know. So, John Lemley,
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  Speaker 1: what happens next? Did any part of the body ever
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: surface or was there a siding of Mike Williams. There
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: was no body parts or no sightings at all. However,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: within days parts of his clothing started showing up along
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: the shore in different places. The initial search was handled
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: in a way that they were viewing it as a
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: missing hunter, and the agency handles those cases in a
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: completely different way, focusing on search and rescue or recovery.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: So in their minds, they're looking for a living person.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: But when these pieces of clothing began popping up, that's
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: when investigators began to think they're dealing with something else. Well,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: not everybody bought the alligator story. Take a listen to
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Tella has A Democrat reporter Jennifer Portsmouth reporting on Mike's mother.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: The case of the missing Hunter seemed closed and was
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: soon forgotten by almost everyone, but not by Mike's mother
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Sheryl did she believe that her son drowned in Lake
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: summin All. She never ever believed that her son was
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: in the lake. Not from day one, Not from day
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: one did she think it happen. She didn't know. All
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: she knew was that her son was not in that lake.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: She just knew it, knew it like a motto, something
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: just deep inside of her. And she was absolutely committed
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: to finding out what happened to him. It's never out
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: of my head. Where is this child? He may be good,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: but he's not in that like and if somebody did
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: hurt my child. I want them found and I want
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: him punish. Karen Smith, forensics expert. If they have the boat,
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: what if anything could that prove? Well, it could prove
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: a lot of different things, Nancy. Did the boat have
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: water in it? Was it completely dry? You know these
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: small boats they tipped, they're going to have water in
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: it also. But it's from clothing. You know, alligators, If
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: that theory pans out, they're not delicate eaters. Where their
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: rips were their tears? Was the clothing indicative of a
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: gator attack? Was there any other forensic evidence within that clothing?
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: You know? The boat itself? Was his wallet? There was
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: his information? There was there other indicators? Was his gun
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: still laying there? Was his gun missing? If he was
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: duck hunting? All of these things are going to play
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: into a timeline, and it's going to play into what
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: really happened. So as one piece of clothing after the
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: next starts floating up to the surface, everyone's looking from
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Mike Williams, did he just leave town or did an
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: alligator devour him? How did he get in the water
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: to start with? To John Limley, what can you tell
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: me about his background? For instance, how did he meet
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: his wife Denise. Well, Denise and Mike were actually high
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: school sweethearts. It's that great old story that we hear
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: so often. In reality, you know, most of the time
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: it's not true. In this case, it is. They met
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: at North Florida Christian School in Tallahassee, and most details
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: from their early lives to the couple's college days at
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Florida are interchangeable. Both were active in extracurriculars through high school.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Mike was a promising football player, voted best Personality. His wife,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: then known by the maiden name Denise Merrill, was a
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: cheerleader for the North Florida Eagles. Former classmates and even
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: then current friends of Mike say he was very well respected,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: then at private school, then in business, where he excelled
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: in both. It wasn't unlike Mike to step into the
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: role of a protective older brother and to look over
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: younger friends and family members. Mike and Denise graduated in
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight, alongside classmates Brian Winchester and his future bride,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Kathy Aldridge. The two couples remained close as they each
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: married in nineteen ninety four and had children, So those coach.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Couples became very best friends. They're all they go way
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: way back. Now. As a matter of fact, Williams the victim.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, Mike Williams and Brian Winchester
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: hay gone duck hunting that day and then somehow he disappears.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Everybody has to the light together with their boat to
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: start searching, and they search in the dark hours and
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: hours and hours until Winchester and his dad stumble on
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: williams motorized canoe and it was kind of uptouching the
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: lake shore. They found his ford Bronco about seventy five
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: yards away, abandoned, and that's all they found. But eventually,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: after they searched, they found at the very bottom of
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Lake Seminole, his hunting license, his jacket, his waiters. Investigators
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: convinced Williams was eaten by alligators or in North Florida
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: there are a lot of alligators. We went back out there,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: you know, there was more evidence that there was there
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: had been alligator activity around there. That's what you believed
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: happened to Mike, Yes, I firmly believe that. I guess
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: you're sort of hoping you find something and sort of
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: hoping you don't what I was just hoping if he
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: was here, we would find him and get closured. But
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: now it didn't have. People are attacked by alligators, little
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: dogs are eaten by alligators. But you never hear of
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: someone who's just vanished, eaten by an whole by an alligator. Hi,
• 20:24
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• 20:27
  Speaker 1: somebody at work a crush? Fifty seven percent of Americans
• 20:31
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• 20:35
  Speaker 1: six admit to using the Internet to look up somebody
• 20:38
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• 20:42
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  Speaker 1: goes on, and then and the weeks and months that
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: follow nobody finds him. But then Denise, the wife, goes broke.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: But Scott Dungee says, now that Denise was a single mom,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: money was getting tight. I was helping her with some
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: of the items that needed to be sold and to
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: generate some cash until the insurance money came. And there
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: was a lot of insurance money involved. Williams had three
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: policies worth more than one point seven to five million dollars.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: With her expenses reportedly mounting, Denise went after the insurance
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: money quickly. While the search itself is still going on,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: while he is still actively missing, they're still actively searching
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: for her. She is going and filing a claim against
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: his life insurance. She was really ready to accept the
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: fact that he was missing and presumed dead very early on,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: but the state of Florida was not. According to Florida law,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: since there was no proof Williams had died, he would
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: not be declared dead for five years how much time
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: it had taken this case, it took six months. It
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: was very fast, abnormally fast. That's because Denise's at He
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: argued to a judge that the waiters, the vest, and
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: the hunting license were proof enough that William's dead. The
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: judge agreed and issued a death certificate cause of death
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: accidental drowning while duck hunting on Lake Seminole. Body has
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: not yet been recovered. Based on that and that alone
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: was what got him declared dead. Parro waiters in a
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: fishing license and yeah, exactly straight out. To John Limley,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: investigative reporter with Crime online dot Com, John Limley, the
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: facts to me are very confusing. Let me understand this.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Did he go out originally alone on the boat or
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: was he with the high school friend. They allegedly chose
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: December ninth as the day Winchester would take Mike on
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: a duck hunting trip, knock him overboard, and stage his
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: death as a boating mishap, But the morning of the
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: trip arrived and Mike called Winchester to back out. Winchester
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: invited Mike to go on another duck hunting trip, but
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: it seems no one else in Mike's family knew that
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: he was meeting Brian, so it was in the early
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: morning hours of December sixteenth that the two pals launched
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: their boat out into Lake Seminole. When they reached a
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: landing down from where they parked their vehicles, Winchester got
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: Mike to stand up, and that's when he shoves him overboard.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: After that, Mike takes off his jacket, takes off his Waiters.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Was in an absolute panic, and Winchester says he was
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: driving the boat, didn't know what else to do, and
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: then ends up shooting his best friend. Winchester then allegedly
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: dragged his friend's body to the shore put him in
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: the back of his Chevrolet Suburban. He then pushed Mike's
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: boat back out into the water and headed back to
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: his house, where his wife Kathy was still asleep. Kathy,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: of course, knows nothing about any of this, and Winchester
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: says he got undressed, got back into bed, and pretended
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: that he just woke up as usual. It's not all
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: as it seems. I want you to listen to high
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: school friend Brian Winchester. We launched the boat. It was
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: just like a hunting trip was supposed to be. The
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: plan that was discussed and come up with was that
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: he was going to be wearing waiters, and leaf was
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: somebody falls in the water with waiters, you're going down.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: So we went out like we were going honey. We
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: got to the area where his waiters and jacket were found.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: I got him to stand up and I pushed him
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: into the water. You are hearing a long time high
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: school friend, Brian Winchester describing breaking down crying he put
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: his friend from high school into the muddy waters of
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Lake Seminole Ashley Wolcott. I mean, from the very beginning
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: his story didn't make sense to me, but to push
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: somebody into the water. But you know what, Ashley hold on.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: I want you to hear this. He got his jacket
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: off and his waiters off, and he was in a panic.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Obviously I was in a panic. I was driving the
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: boat and I didn't I didn't know what to do,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: and I ended up shooting him. I ended up shooting him.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: To Ashley Wilcot, judge lawyer or at Ashley Wilcott dot
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: com Ashley Wilcott, it's like he didn't do it himself. Well,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: I ended up and I've seen that so many times
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: when defendants gives statements or they're you know, stupid enough
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: to take the stand where they just going the gum
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: went off, No, you pull the trigger. What happened, Ashley,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: is he tricks his friend Mike Williams into standing up
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: in the boat. Okay, the little skiff. When he stands up,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: he pushes him in. The guy can swim. He's an athlete,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: all right, remember captain of the football team, Hunter Fisher.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: The works. The guy swims to a swamp, a stump
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: or something in the water, and he's not dead, he's
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: not drowning, even with the waiters on. He gets his
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: jacket off, he gets his waiters off. So what does
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Winchester do. He starts circling him in the boat. So
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: can you and that imagine Mike Williams clinging to a
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: stump in the middle of Lake Seminole and his best
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: friend is circling him in the water and finally gets
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: close enough and shoots him multiple times. That's what happened, Ashley.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: That's exactly what happened, Nancy, And that's horrific. And think
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: about this. There's also testimony by Mike that he had
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: to take time to load his gun, stood up by Mike,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: I apologized by Brian Winchester. So Mike's in the water,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: really literally hanging on to life on a tree, and
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: he has to watch his quote unquote friend load his
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: gun to circle around to then shoot him. You know,
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: it's to doctor Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrists, this is not
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: a stranger on stranger attack. This is his high school friend.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: They're grown now, they're both married with families, and his
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: high school friend, his best friend for twenty years, shoots
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: him dead. Well, how does that happen? You know, Nancy,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know how he could have
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: thought he was going to get away with this. I mean,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: there's just a you know, there's like a lot. It's
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: like a trail of red crumbs. Given these connections of
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: all these people, it just seems silly to me that
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: they thought the story would be plausible at you know,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: when you when you get right down to it, though,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: doctor Bober, I've been asked so many times about motive.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: The state of course doesn't have to prove motive for murderer,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: but it always boils down. Aren't money, sex, slash love, revenge? Anger?
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: It's it's always one of those four. I mean, it's
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: got to be one of those four. Doctor Bober agree
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: or disagree, No, I totally agree. I think that that
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: pretty much encompasses all the all the motivation. Take a
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: listen to our friends at forty eight hours, seventeen and
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: a half years. We have always talked about Mike Williams
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: being missing, not ever finding his body, not ever having
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: resolution was very difficult. He was going to wake up
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: early and go duck hunt. He was a big duck hunter,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: and so we went off to the lake and then
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: he ever came back. Mike Williams was a straight shooter.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: He loved his family, he loved his wife. He put
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: her on a pedestal. I did everything that she wanted done.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Denise said, jump Mike one and out how high they
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: were going to be celebrating their winning anniversary. And so
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: when he did not come home about noon when he
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: was supposed to, Denise started getting worried and started calling around.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: This search was the most ever seen. Law enforcement and
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: friends and family combing the lake looking for me. They
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: found the boat, his truck, the trailer. That was all there.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: I got up in the helicopter and flew around and
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: looked for his body. And one of the things that
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: I noticed there were no less than fifteen to twenty
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: very large alligators swimming all around this area. The governor
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: a letter every day for nine years. She was absolutely
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: possessed with finding this out. What had happened to mine?
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: And your God ChEls me on my haunt about childish jake,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: I cannot give us looking sly, she wasn't more quit
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: until she had a body. He didn't just fall out
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: of the boat. This wasn't just a honey accident. This
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: man was murdered, and they blamed it on alligators for
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: seventeen years. Many a murder has been blamed on an alligator.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: But that's exactly what did not happen in this case.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, what we learned was happening
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: is that after many, many double dates together, Brian Winchester
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: falls in love with Mike Williams's wife, Denise Williams, and
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: on one of their double dates, they start kissing after
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: a discussion about six Wow, what a surprise. So now
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: we see it's not an alligator wanting a snack, it's
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: a love triangle. Ashley Wilcott absolutely love triangle. Not only that,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: but it comes out they were having an affair before
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: they before the victim was shot in the face of murder.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, they go on and they
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: marry John Limley. How long after Mike Williams is shot
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: dead do the two mary? It was just a year
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: and a half before they married. The years dragged on,
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: it looked like the mystery of what happened to Mike
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Williams might never be solved. Yes, that's what's gonna be here.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: This isn't This one's not bad. I mean, I went
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: a joke around the newsroom that you know, they'd have
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: to drag manut of the old lady reporter nursing home
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: when they finally found Mike Williams. I never thought that
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: they would ever know anything about what happened to him.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: If Brian and Denise knew anything about Mike's disappearance, they
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: weren't talking and no one could make them. By Florida law,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: as long as they stayed married, neither could be forced
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: to testify against the other. With Brian and Denise being married,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: you were how are you ever going to get the truth?
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: Because one is not going to turn on the other.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: But behind the scenes, Denise and Brian's marriage was disintegrating. Wow,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: can you imagine that? So Mike Williams is gunned down
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: his widow, Denise Williams against that life insurance policy over
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: a million dollars and marries the high school best friend,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Brian Winchester. You know, are you surprised, Ashley that over
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: as time passes the two started hating each other, the
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: high school friend and the widow who are now married
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: and joined at the hip and bound together by murders. No,
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: I'm not at all surprised. There are such a concoluted
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: web as you already alluded to. Oh the tangle where
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: we weave, and it was there were multiple affairs by
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: different partners in these two men marriages that led to this.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: And Nancy, let me add this to your little food
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: for thought. There were three life insurance policies that amounted
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: to one point seventy five million dollars, and guests who
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: wrote put together two of those policies. You got it,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Brian Winchester. Okay, So John Lumley and investigative reporter Crime
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: online dot Com. The two wouldn't talk. How was the
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: case cracked? Well, a story emerges of Brian actually kidnapping Denise.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: This is such a bizarre twist to the story. Denise
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: and Brian separated in twenty twelve, reportedly due to his
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: sex addiction. She filed for divorce in twenty fifteen. So
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: he's a killer and he has a sex addiction. Absolutely, okay,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: go ahead. Denise tells the Leon County Sheriff's Office that
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: on an August afternoon, the day when the appraisal of
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: their home had been filed with court, she left her
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: house to drive to her job at Florida State University.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: While she's on the phone with her sister, she sees
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: someone climb over the back of her car, and it
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: turned out to be Brian. He takes her phone away
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: begins yelling directions to her. She didn't comply until he
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: shows a gun. She said later that he claimed that
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: this was necessary since she was not taking his calls
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: and was blocking his text messages. Well, and the whole
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: time she knows he's already killed. Once listen to Denise
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Williams in her own words, he's raining and I'm just
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: like shaking, and he saw that people are going to notice.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Denise reported her kidnapping to the Leon County Sheriff's office.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: I was like, are you planning on you know, any
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: both of our lives? Say, well, mine, I'm plaining online.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: And then he would say I want to kill us.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: He must have said a many times, I want to
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: kill myself. Brian Winchester was soon arrested and charged with
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: the kidnapping and aggravated assault of his wife. I was
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: just kind of agreeing with whatever he was saying, and
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: I was like, I know that you love me. Police
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: quickly realized that the rift and Denise in Brian's marriage
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: presented an opportunity. Word travels fast in law enforcement circles
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: and they recognized it for what it was. This was
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: a huge break in the Mike Williams case, and a
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: break it was so after she then Karen Smith goes
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: to police saying she's being kidnapped. I guess she had
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: no idea that everything she was saying was breaking the
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: husband wife privilege. But how can you back up her story?
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: That's a really good question other than words at this point,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: because they don't have forensics, they don't have the gun.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: All they have is what Denise's telling police at this point.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: So John Limley after she goes in on the kidnap
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: do the alleged kidnap? How did they get the truth
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: out of her? Well, the case really, as you mentioned,
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: really cracked open with this break in their bond, the
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: marriage bond legal and he began to tell investigators details
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: as well. This is during the investigation of the kidnapping
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: and in December twenty seventeen, Winchester was sentenced to twenty
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: years in prison for the kidnapping. Now, no mention was
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: made of the Williams case at Brian Winchester's sentencing. However,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: there was some sort of deal that was reached that
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: would reduce his sentence for information in the case, specifically
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: what happened and where the well hold on. Let's go
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: to ask you Willcott, judge and lawyer. Didn't he get immunity?
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: He sure did, Nancy, He did get immunity, and they
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: took life in prison off the table for the kidnapping charge.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: He got both. So how long is he's the sugar man?
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: So in order to testify against his new wife, Mike
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: William's widow, how much time is he going to get?
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: He gets none for killing He got immunity, so he
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: gets none for killing. Now, the only caveat is they said,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: if there's any new evidence discovered outside of your version
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: of what happened, we could prosecute on the new evidence.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: But he told the whole shebang, the whole story, so
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: I cannot imagine that happening. So on twenty years, we'll
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: probably do about ten. Yes, okay man, you're not kidding.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: A kidnapping, a murder, a cold blooded murder, and bombshell.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Right now, in the last hours, the trial of Denise
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Williams has just ended. The jury has just returned a
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: verdict guilty on all counts. This would never have broken
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: open if it had not been from Mike William's mother,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: A mother's love, strongest power on Earth. Nancy Grace Crime
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Story signing off, Goodbye friend,