Latest / WIPTHENRIP / Episode 8 - Georgina "Coka" Trevino

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Episode 8 - Georgina "Coka" Trevino · WIPTHENRIP

• Ryan: Do community, not just a place or or not just groups of people that go to different events and eat like cheese cubes and bad wine. Like that is not a community. Hi everyone, I'm Sydney. And I'm Ryan. And this is Whip then Rit. And for our eighth guest, we have Georgina Coca Trevino, who is a cultural strategist and art advisor originally from Monterey, Mexico. Currently based in Austin, Texas. Find her at Georginatrevigno.com and whypatty.com. Or you could subscribe to her newsletter, yes please and thank you. If you want to support the podcast, like, share, subscribe to our channels, leave a rating and a review, and hey, share an episode with a friend. Stay tuned and see how our conversation goes. Check it out, motherfuckers. This is more just like housekeeping type stuff. I've realized that when we especially put out the audio version of this, and because we're trying to do kind of a global view of the arts, that it might be worth naming that Big Medium was a nonprofit that started the Austin Studio Tour for which you were the head curator for how many years? Since 2020. So four years. I worked I started in 2018, but that was us. program coordinator and then I I moved up if up is the way to move. Like I just I I yeah yeah, I don't know how to say it, but yeah, you know what I mean. Moved into that position. A different role. Yes. And we thank you. We don't necessarily have to dwell too much on big medium, though we can come back to it. I just I've noticed sometimes we'll say, you know, this person, that person, and then I realize if you're listening to this and Canada or something, you might not know what we're talking about. Yeah, just for reference, Big Medium was an art nonprofit that was out in about 20-something years. They created the Texas Biennial, the Austin Studio Tour, and those are legacies that have been key to many people's careers, specifically in Texas, but also that brought like literally millions of dollars to artists' hands directly without getting any commissions, without anything, For years. So I I do think like it is very relevant. So sadly it is no longer in existence. but but yeah, it it was sort of a big deal back in the day. Yes. Can I actually ask a I don't think it's that spicy of question, but it's something I'm curious about with big medium, which is that I don't know if this is your perception as well, but mine having been an Austin, you know. For more than a decade at this point. When I moved here, I thought and saw big medium as one of the central forces of the arts in Austin. and everything that you just described, there's a 20-year history started originally by Shea Little, right? Shea Little, Janice Wagner, Joseph Phillips. Right. And the the possibly spicy question is: do you feel like Folks are sort of trying to memory hole its existence because I rarely hear people even reference it. People still talk about the tour because there's a continuity, but big medium strangely doesn't seem to get included in some of these histories of the Austin art scene that I've seen. A hundred percent. And even when we were have we had a studio tour and we did all of it, people rarely mentioned Big Medium or Shay. Jenna Sweg and Joseph Phillips eventually left the organization and Shay was the only like founder that continued to be under admin, like the director. Yeah. And I have zero clue of what is that. And I when I moved to Austin back in 2010, I hadn't come here, but I already was participating on the studio tour. Someone told me about it. And so I applied from Mexico and we found a place through friends of friends and I brought like ten people from Mexico, like in in different places. And like I moved in October and in November we were already in the tour. So that that just yeah, it it I've had a wrong relationship with it and and I love it and it it is very bizarre for me. And I know there's politics and there's this thing that happens in Austin and I'm sure in many other places, like the clicky thing and and I'm sure feathers well ruffled or whatever. But I I don't think that anything was that huge to to just try and put your back on like yeah, and just not acknowledge the huge work that that took. It it is surprising. I think it's been nagging at me because that's like there is yeah, perhaps old beef or like relationships between people that I probably don't even have the first clue about. But yeah, similarly, like when we moved here, that was one of the early things that it was like, okay, this is an easy way for me to show art and get to know people and network and everything else. And I'm I'm thankful for the continuity. It's almost real things, right? Who's now overseeing it? And I think it's good that if I remember right, there wasn't even a skip year, right? Yeah. So that that piece of it is really positive in the sense that I think that it could have easily just dissolved and you know, at least the thing that was built goes on. What I was gonna say though is it does make me think about this like the victors write the history. Right. And not to say that those people are the victors, I don't mean anything against almost real things, but what I mean by that is if big medium no longer exists as an institution, it's almost like this 20-year monolith, right, all of a sudden is unrecognized. and maybe I'm being a little too heavy handed here, but it just is striking me that there's a little bit of, you know, people talk a lot about gentrification, people talk a lot about colonization. And there's something in that that is just interesting. I think there's a huge element of of people I and I think it's the extraction thing. And that's why I'm like not specifically about big medium and the studio tourist stuff, but the extraction like I I just want my thing. Like Fuck off. Like I don't I don't care about you. Like I just want the money or I just want the service. And this is something that we dealt with forever. And it was a nonprofit doing all this important things and and and I'm not like I don't want to say like self sound self important or anything. It it was like we were providing a service. And even when I was not in in the organization or whenever I didn't have any decision making, like they were doing really good things for the arts. and their way of thinking of it was not about cutting corners, it was not about saving money, it was about what, like, and this is like directly from Shay. He he told me once that when I first started, like I had a question and I was like, So what do we do here? And he just said, like, what's the best for the artist? And I was like, No, like this is cheaper, and blah, blah, blah. Because I cook out what's the best for the artist? And I was converted and in that moment. And I remember it super clearly. Because it was the first place where they were truly committed. And fundraising sucks. And like fluctuation of money sucks. And the city that is gentrified every single day and like growing, in systems that are harmful to to people of color and to the LGBT plus community like constantly. It is a huge commitment to keep a house or to keep an organization that is battling these things. And even when all of this are happening, often artists were the first people that were just unkind or that were like trying to sneak or cut corners and not show up or doing the unofficial thing and stuff that like we had fellowships. Like if you wanted to be part of the tour and didn't have money, you could just pretty much send an email. You know, like and and it is this I think that the extraction and very individualistic way of being of of is like, I don't know, I I don't care who you are. I don't care the hours that you're putting I want the result and I want it quick and fast. And that's that. And that's why I feel like a lot of people don't know about like Shay, Jana, and Joseph. And they I can comfortably say like those three artists like changed the lives of many people and the course of this city in a way. Because the studio tour is a bigger deal that more people wanna. Say. And of course, there's better and worse years and stuff, but artists were able to make money at least once a year. And that that that's a huge part of it. is that it is one of the few places that artists of sort of all levels can consistently make money. I wanna say that I don't mean to sound like I'm calling out almost real things in particular. I just wanted to say out loud that they're not really who I'm thinking of. I think that it's more in the air amongst the broader like Austin art scene. and I find that stuff really interesting because again, I think we think a lot about exclusion. You were talking about extraction. And I think that those, I guess, E-words, along with our five Gs. Maybe we need we need five E's. when I think Back to Shay in particular, I think what the story you just shared about his being artist first, rather than I mean, fill in the blank. I guess rather than, you know, how do we do this cheaply? How do we do this in a way that gets the best, you know, name for ourselves? Because I'm imagining there's a world in which it could have been like the Shay little tour or something, you know. It is a much slower burn when you actually are trying to not only do something like start a business or a nonprofit or just an artistic practice, it's a much slower burn if you are also trying to do it ethically. Maybe a tough question, but when you were at big medium, did you ever feel like there were moments that you potentially fucked up and you know you had to like figure out how to undo the thing that you've done. I think like everybody wants to be a good person, but sometimes we are human and we do fuck up, you know? yeah absolutely. Yeah. I fuck up all the time. Like I'm not saying I'm any any different. I just value the self awareness and and wanting to to correct curse correct. And and yeah, like I'm I'm sure I did that a lot. But I I'm always comfortable. I mean it sucks, but I I am very comfortable to apologizing and to owning my mistakes. And if I was rude to someone in front of other people, apologizing in front of other people, like so like it is not like, I'm gonna acknowledge my things in the like in silence, but I made a mess. Like no, like I I wanna own to my mistakes. So Yeah, in big medium and my personal life and everywhere. But yes, I I generally try whenever I am aware and I agree, I I try to jump in and apologize and correct. That is what I would call character, right? And I think that it's unfortunate. I'm realizing that there's sort of this emerging theme with what we're doing with Whipped and Rip, that really is kind of circling this topic because a lot of what I think both Sydney and I have found, and I'm pretty sure that you have too, Coca, is that you know, it's surprising how often you run into people who don't get those basic principles, right? That like you fuck up, you own up to it, we can move forward. It's like sometimes it's like kind of goes like, You fuck up, you blame me, you disappear, or something like that. No, yeah. And if you put on top of it that I'm a woman. And Latina, like there you go. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's not an easy thing. Like I came to the US with already a really good, solid career. And it took me 10 years to get anything relevant. And I do think like I mean immigrant, Latina, blah blah blah. And also I'm not thin. And like a bunch of random stuff that piles up and that make things harder. And yes, I think that I didn't make things easier at Big Medium because I am honest and direct and I don't reward bad manners or when people are yelling at me, I'm not one to be prioritize those people because why? like kind people get better treatment in my book and that's like with my staff, with myself. Like I yeah. So I am sure I didn't make things easier for the organization. So yes, but I live in a very religious authenticity. Like I I cannot, like I I cannot be hypocrite. I can be decent and I can be a respectful human and say hi to people if I bump into them. But I am I can't really it doesn't make sense to me. Like it elongate relationships or work or things that are not I'm not aligned with. and also my mom always used to say el flojo trabaja doble. It's like the whoever like a lazy person works double because they usually you do it poorly and then you have to do it again. I I love the work that I've done in the past and I'm very, very proud of the work that we did. But in the in this couple years that I've been like kind of shaken and and trying to rebuild, I noticed that I was not fully aligned with myself and I I was not caring for myself and a lot of decisions I took for the for the good of the organization or what I thought was gonna be better when I like I needed to check in with myself and I needed to make decisions that are aligned with with who I am. And I paid a tra the the price with a lot of like health stuff and a lot of right sadness and and exhaustion and I mean I thank God or the universe that nothing tragic happened. But I did derail from my authentic self or a lot from right not being thoughtful in in making my decisions. So yes, it takes longer, but I I'm happy with it. And also I only want to serve people that are trying to good do good shit. Like even like we're all gonna mess up. But if we have good intentions and we want to move forward, like the world is so not nice right now. Like why would I invest in in people that continue do that like no like let's just do the good thing and be proud of it and 90% of the people that I showed were like truly good people doing good work. So it's not it not in that area so much, but more as like I was just doing things for the job and going back at it and back to back to back and piling on different projects that maybe didn't need to be happening at the same time. or that took away from from my own life, overextending myself and and just at the end, like I whenever I decided to to step away from big medium, it was a moment of like, wait, who am I? Like if I'm not going forward to and not even like about big medium alone, but all of my life since I can't remember, since I was like fifteen or something, it's my life has been about curating. I had two questions if it's okay before we get to the G's. one and they're sort of separate, so you can kind of take them however you want. but one is when you're talking about this almost religious authenticity, it's making me think about a recent clip that I imagine you may have seen too of a settler in the West Bank. who has a religious conviction, obviously very different than what you're talking about. But just to use it as an example that I think is in opposition to what you're talking about. And I think one's motivation, one's values, maybe they're sometimes hard to place, but you know, I'd imagine operating in a different way, a lot of the reason that people do is that because they can lap you, right? So again, with that time point, it's like somebody doing it the fucked up way. they might get somewhere quicker, right? So that's question one. And then if I can tack onto that question two, and like I said, roll with this however you want. The second question that occurred to me, thinking back to big medium, is I think that that's true, everybody who was shown there was a voice and I think a I know that because I know you, that I trust that those people were all people aligned with the ethics that you're talking about now. It did make me wonder about those who ended up excluded because I think you're in a challenging position, or excuse me, you were in a challenging position. You are now too for different reasons. But you were in a challenging position then because there with every acceptance came rejections, right? So it it is just making me but it quite honestly, part of it is I'm like, let's make sure to that we acknowledge that they're good people too. Because that's such a prerequisite of being an artist is to be a forever reject. in so many senses of the word. It feels right. So yeah. Yeah. So religious authenticity and you know, those who happen to get excluded with big medium. Yeah. I mean, I'm not sure if it's my upbringing. It it feels like itchy if I'm not being true to my to myself or like if I'm bluffing or I I just it just doesn't feel right. Like it just feels intuition is huge a huge tool for me and I am very often right about vibes and and I don't know like there's someone or they said something like it feels off. and then finding out like people did something or not didn't do something or whatever. So I I need to be very close and attentive to what my body is saying for me to so it's innate calm. It's innate. It's inside of you and just now I think so. And also like my my parents are brutally honest and the the place where I'm from originally Monterey were brutally honest as in general. So yeah, I think that was part of it. And it aligns with with my values. So that that's helpful. On the big medium It it was really hard because I also wanna please and I also want people to like me. Like I being the person that I don't want likes is not fun. But but it was it was decisions of honestly, like I did think about these things like strategically and like who is doing things that I know they're gonna do be bigger and stuff and I wanna I wanna push or and I've been I wanna be part of their journey and and let's give them some space so they can just do it and I can have like a silent I I did that. I saw I saw them first, which is very pleasing. But yeah, so it it was strategy on that and having like real good art and a good message. And it sucked because it was only a limited slots in the year. And I did like I don't know if I tell you this, but in for the biennial, the one that I co-curated with Ashley and Erica, like we're three women of color, and we did our curation as as best as we could, of course. And we got messages on Facebook of like, what? Am I not brown enough to be selected? And stuff like that, which is gross. But also it speaks on like the assumptions on like, yeah, like I wait, I'm white, I'm supposed to be part of this. Or other people like select me in everything. I'm su I'm supposed like, what are you doing? Why are you not doing this? And I took that as a good a marker of like I'm doing something good. At least I'm shaking things up. At least I'm making people question themselves. And when I Co-curate it because I did it from a good place and a lot of conviction, I was able to keep peace with it. but yeah, it's it's not a friend-making position. Yeah, yeah. And feels tied into again, you know, all of those systems that you're talking about, even if it's indirectly that, you know, that instinct. It's like so many things where, you know, when I think about capitalism, right, as a system, I think about how you there are people, you know, when you have less and you're looking at someone with more, you look at them and say, you know, you have shame, you have anger, you have all these feelings as you're like, fuck you, you have more. And then on the flip side, when you're in a position to have more than someone else, there's a shame that comes with that as well. And that's not to forgive. Or say anything about either position. It's just that we live in the system that is designed to create enemies. and I think this is an ongoing kind of personal inquiry, I guess, is like, have I told you about my we don't need to include this, but the this idea I've had about collectivizing everyone, where it's like, what if every single artist in Austin, for instance, was in a single collective like a union, right? And it was this is impractical. And part of the reason it's impractical is because of all of the social differences. Anyways, point being that it's like it it's it's very interesting that people when they go to look and say, well, why am I excluded? It's like, well, it must be because of my race or it must be because of my gender, but that is so complex because it is an inversion of something that's very, very real. Right. Which I don't need to I don't need to tell you that yeah. There are that one of this is not like the others. Yes. And it's hard for me to imagine, well, let's say either of you responding to an open call and not getting in and sending a letter, that's like, well, well, I I I I mean, I suppose if it really felt authentically like you were being discriminated against, I imagine y'all would probably say something about it. But if it was just like you didn't get in, I don't imagine that your first instinct would be this is because I am a woman or a person of color. But I don't know. Actually you tell me what it's depend on depends on the judges. Like some as I was saying and I'm like if it's an all white male panel Yeah, maybe. Odds are. Yeah, it you never know. But on the collectivization, because you had a a really good program that's creative standard. And it was all about them trying to have like ground rules, like what is the creative standard so that we all can like not do stuff for free or like have these rules or like and we would bring like really good speakers and we would have like meetings and stuff like just to to try and collectively create those basics so that we we could move like the arts into more sustainable systems. And I mean he was great for the people that attended, but in the same breath someone else was like heard a tip or someone else and went and was like disingenuous. Or like so I know I know there is a will and I know like it we would all be better if we would act as a community versus individualistic or little cliques. But isn't that like the h yeah, that's that's the world we're in. Everything right. Yeah, well and so there's kind of the equality versus equity discussion, right? That's in what we were talking about before and I yes, I think that the sort of I guess just that part of the problem or the challenge with change is that it is change. You know, maybe that's part of the good thing about the newsletter, right? Is that it's a way that you can communicate communicate exactly what it is that you're after or, you know, your intentions, your values, et cetera. But that in a way seems like I remember when you were working on the the biennial. That you just referred to that I was in, I and I didn't know. And you got in and signed up in white. I know. That's funny. I didn't know the behind the scenes and I learned them later on. And I think like in retrospect, part of the challenge that y'all had was this is too much of a reduction, but it was like kind of the PR. Because I think y'all were so fucking busy that it was like I you you my impression, tell me if this is off, but my impression was that it was like we don't have time to explain every detail of why the choices we're making are being made. And this kind of connection I'm trying to make there, I guess, is to the project you're working on now and how it seems very communication forward. And I don't know if those two things are related, but that seems super important. I think the decisions of a curator are rarely a question. So I wouldn't have assumed that anyone would be wanting us to make those decisions. I agree, like PR and stuff, but I think I'm gonna turn it back. Like it's white supremacy and all of that, like three women of color and also three women like not backed by museums. And we were reacting to the world that or the Texas that we were seeing. And that's post-pandemic and that's with very little resources. As thing got caught like as the the I don't know, institutions were getting like reduced on on fonts drastically. And people not being along for the ride or being like, no, I don't like art that it's not and this white cube, or who are those curators or whatever. It is a very selective blindness in a way. Like it's not legit. So like why am I not getting explained like why why is this like this? Like instead of accepting like just turning around and say like, yeah, I guess that's that's what happens. Like and people have different ways of showing up and everyone everything's segmented and hard and the value is the the art and the artists and and what we're doing as a community versus does that look fancy enough? or formal enough. When what is formal? Like it's pretend. Like you know, like I and luckily like I I was it was a really hard challenge all of that. I am so proud and I was so grateful that I got to to spend this time in project with the curators and the artists. But it was very I'm saying like it took a lot. From me. And in the meantime, like we were struggling like financially at Big Medium. And I was had doing all the jobs and we didn't have enough stuff and all of that. And so when people when when we heard different comments criticizing like how informal it was or how this was not good enough, it really hurt. And I was just wanted to say, like, dude, I'm doing everything that I can, but if we don't if If y'all don't want to help like promote, like what am I supposed to do? Like we were very thoughtful of the places that where we showed, and we made sure to include a everyone and we were sure to align, you know, like we did the work. Right. It's the expectation and the judges that are not legitimizing us. Does that make sense? The judges being like Austin artists or the judges being just Texas in general. I mean, Texas people with opinions, with loud opinions and with right unwilling to see the project for what it is. I'm all about like I think a huge lack in the art scene in Austin and maybe not in Texas, but let's keep it in Austin, is the lack of criticism or contrast constructive criticism. So I'm fully on for criticism and I've been criticized and it's been make it's made me better, but there's also a tone deaf thing that it doesn't criticize me, it criticizes the system or the lack of money or power and stuff. So like what is that helpful for? Rev's topic is what's frustrating, broken, or irritating in art and culture right now? So much. But I more than art and culture, I think it's in general. right. Something that I'm struggling with really a lot. It's like to pretending that things are normal and they're okay. And we're just like doing our job and going and functioning as if we weren't in this reality, especially in this country and especially in Texas. So I think like the blinding ourselves or like not Just be real and saying like this is not working. I'm harming in this way myself or my community, or like this needs to change, or I need to show up in a different way. I think like just yeah, pretending to be aloof or not seeing things, it's it's the one of the biggest problems. 'Cause that So we're ad we're advocating for the calling people out. Is that what we're saying? No. For people to have self-awareness. Right, right, right. No, I'm just kidding. Just it's not it doesn't make sense like to go and do your job, like everything it I don't care if you're on a counter or something like no, you need to look around and you need to see how your hours are contributing to yourself, to your family, and to the world. And maybe it's some time to change your job and maybe people stop showing up to like shady places where they have really bad ethics, like they would be forced to make the change. And maybe it's super naive and idealistic. but it personally I feel like we need to be good with ourselves. You know, there's this idea of what normal or going along to get along is. And right now I often feel that too, that it's actually there's this play pretend that's Going on all the time. I just watched, you may have seen some of the clips. There's an interview with Tani Sukotes going around. And, you know, he was talking about Gaza and he talks about, you know, that in 1830 there were certainly people who could make a completely logical argument for slavery, you know, as an example. And kind of saying that, you know, that doesn't mean that it was correct just because somebody could logic their way into it. And There's, if I'm understanding you correctly, you know, part of that is about, you know, the decision, how we decide to interact with the systems that we live under, how we choose to shift them. I think we still are in this time where it's like it often is seen as, you know, very extreme, or these are the extremest. And yet something like climate change. And I don't know that you're referring to that, but it's another thing that pops to mind for me where it's everywhere. We're fucked. And I wake up often and I'm like, but what I'm still going to my studio and painting, you know? And I don't know. I think what I'm maybe wondering is how you think about those, you know, who who's an extremist? Who, you know, you know, are the majority of us just in a daze and and completely unaware of the truth? How do you see all that? I don't know that it's the majority or not. I just think like I think it is imp like it that's a place to start. And it's kind of like AA and all of those things, like vices, like you have to acknowledge it first. You have to accept that there is a problem. I think it's it is about alignment and authenticity. Like what feels right to you. I can be bougie AF. And I have an expected taste and I love fashion and I love art and I love all of this things. I've been and and I this is something that I struggled forever. I hate that I'm not doing more for Gaza, for like racism here, for my close community, for my family. Like, you know, like I hate this. And and it's something that weighs me down a lot. So I've been learning to feel out like what feels right. Like how can I act and be kind to myself and so that I can provide in a way that is helpful. And this is why I I took so long, so long in launching my new practice. Like I really want it to be meaningful and I really want it to be right. And I wanted to make sure that I was giving my best self to all of the projects versus half asking a job. But I need to make sure that I can do it and I can use the talents that I do have in the eye that I do have in the best way possible. And I know I cannot like I don't have the strength in my heart to go and like, I don't know, go to a husband help. Like That's someone else's talent and that's someone else's calling, like not mine. So I need to do what I need to do, but I I have to acknowledge the challenges around me and how I can be adding or retracting from there. Right. Yeah. These are all things that I struggle with a lot too. And similarly, you know, was trying to get more invested in political organizing, for example, at one point. And, you know, what I found is the people who are in that, in the way that one really needs to be are invested. It's what they do in their free time. And I came to a point where I realized that, you know, it was my practice or it was this. And I had to acknowledge that, you know, I'm An artist, I was born an artist. it is just who I am. And so there's this ongoing question for me around, you know, what can I do with the art itself? And I think a lot of my work has been about the feeling of futility and that there's not a direct one-to-one with art. And I know you're not exclusively working in the arts per se, though you are still, but. I think even that idea of beautiful things like wanting to be bougie, wanting to look good, care about fashion, care about, you know, meals. I was thinking that before we got on. I was like, shit, the only bad part about this is I can't get some kick ass pastry at like whatever coffee coffee shop we would meet at or something. I've just got my shitty drip coffee. But just to say that I I'm with you. Like I enjoy my treats and I I want to have nice things. And I I think that Those things don't have to be exclusive. And so if we strip things down to their basics, you know, the question of where we're headed and and so it makes a lot of sense to me that you took a lot of time and care to decide how to approach what you're doing. And I to me it sounds like part of what you're saying is we're all just individuals and who can do small things that perhaps have a bigger effect. I mean, do you aspire at all to work with, you know, folks who are doing massive things? Does it matter? Like are the small things massive things in a way? Again, a very l layered and loaded question. That's what you do. I I'm open. I another part of of this part of my life is it's learning to flow and not being emperada, like just like would really tie into ideas or ways of being or anything. So I I'm very, very open. I do want to say like I think we're individuals and we should treat ourselves to what it's true to us, but with a collective input. Like the individualistic way of mind, like only what's good for me. Not that, like the opposite. Like what feels good to me to contribute. I think like a huge problem it is the individualistic thinking is like, who cares? Like I'm gonna be dead whenever the earth just implodes, and that is not good. That's not humane. And to bring it back to Austin, do you have faith in the art community here? Like do you think Things will shift eventually. I might already know your answer, but curious. I think it would be wonderful that a community is built. A true community is built in Austin. I think it would be in everyone's in best interest to to gather challenging each other, like call out when someone's doing something damaging to the others, exclude them if it's needed for the good of the group and for the good of the morals or the ethics and and to do community, not just the place or or not just groups of people that go to different events and eat like cheese cubes and bad wine. Like that is not a community. Like you show up You defend, you fight, you you criticize and you grow together. And that is something worth fighting for or creating. So yeah. It seems like there is one missing element that I think you've already named that's missing from it being able to become community, and it is that self reflection. And I have to say I've found it in all sorts of different environments, not just in you know, the Austin art scene, other art scenes, but also professional environments where and fuck the our government. There's no ability to go, hey, maybe we made a mistake. You know, it's always just no, we're fucking perfect and we're gonna just keep plowing forward. Okay. So the next category is good stuff, which is what feels exciting. Alive or worth paying attention to right now. I I am very excited by the people that are creating new systems and that are actively revelling to what we've known. I and that's one of the reasons that I started my newsletter. yes, listen, thank you. It's I know so many people doing such amazing things. the Nixta folks, Sarah and Edgar, like are hu like it's Nixta Takaria. It's a restaurant that not only has all of the awards, but it's also they pay like good wages. Their team gets like vacation, like they they get yeah, they pe treat people like humans and they also like partners with really good people. Masada Mais, they're an amazing restaurant that does beautiful food and beautiful things. They're very, very open about their politics. And they started it's a couple as well. They they started doing like big meals for like for free and open to the public. And it was a really good network. And they fed a bunch of families consistently for a while. And then now they they live in Mexico City and have this restaurant. And They organize like eat and pay eat what you want, pay what you can. So that they are a couple. Hakim, if I'm pretty sure his show is still up at the Carver Museum. Hakim Adawami. And he's talking about Juneteenth and shedding light on on what is and how he's affected, like his family has been leaving it and how it is. approached and and just tackling this really hard subject that I honestly I didn't grow up knowing about it. It just like kind of learned from living here. Then was able to to go to the show and and listen and was very, very lucky to to have a long conversation with him. And him just telling me life stories and and his family stories and and that it But he didn't have to get his practice there. Like he he's in a good trajectory in his career and the fact that he decided to do this, like it's such a brave thing, especially for a black queer man. Like it it is it is really bold to risk a lot of stuff and invitations on on doing hard work like this. But yeah, I I mean I have I can go on and on and on. But I I have Cynthia Munaz, like a photographer that she is She took photos of me that I am always uncomfortable with photos and and she made it really fun. And she is one of those people that she focuses at work really hard and does like really good job wherever she's at. But at after that, like she volunteers, she shows up, she's in boards, like she puts money, time, efforts, connections in in the places that she believes in. And I think like that's another really practical way of of showing up and and making sure you are asserting your values and and supporting the people that you like or that you align with. Claudia Zapata, before we end. Claudia Zapata, curator of the Planton, they're also amazing. They have this first position at the Planton. They're doing an amazing job also making it easy for people to access. But They're accessing accessing comics and Latino and Chicano work and stuff that it's so important, especially for for just the people here in Texas that have been ignored a lot and giving it so much it's validity. But also Claudia is such an honest, direct and funny person. I learned so much from any investment or any artist talk or anything that Claudia does. that I it it is just fun and intriguing and I always want to know more. And that's thanks to their amazingness and and not shying away from like this is a big institution, blah blah blah. And they're not breaking any rules or anything. They're just being creative and they're being daring to be authentic. I I've only had three issues of the newsletter. and I think like the the other person that I talked about was Bethelham McConnell, which was a huge inspiration for me and someone that was making things different from the get-go and was very prudent with her time and also thoughtful. And her art was amazing, but she never that I know followed the you have to do this if you wanna advance in blah blah blah. Like she always was so true to herself and she always had like beautiful boundaries that were delivered in a soft like but respectable way and yeah it's it's really outstanding people. Sadly she just passed away not too long ago. Yeah. So it was sent in memorium. But but yeah, like that's another example that it's easy for me. Like she was doing her own thing and it was a beautiful thing. Yeah, it's a really a big loss. And I I don't know if you remember that we were at that SAIC program kind of at the same time. We Betty and I both did the Low Res program at School of the Art Institute of Chicago. So we had some studio visits and that that's actually where we met, which was interesting. I think, yeah, she made super inspiring work. And I think that that exhibition that y'all put on was really memorable. I feel like that is one of the Tito's exhibitions, if I remember right, that has always stuck with me. The Tato Sprice. Yeah. So a huge loss, I think, for for Austin, especially, because when we talk about, you know, some of these questions about the kind of art that's being made and and how art can be used, right? Because what we're what's going on addressed is the fact that there's a lot of art that is wallpaper. you know. And I think that it is back to some of what we talked about earlier, it's a lot more challenging to actually make that conceptual difficult work talking about challenging subjects. I think anybody who doesn't know that work should go look out. That is one weird but beautiful thing. Like Betty did so much work and there's so many videos and texts and stuff. Like they're like if someone's not familiar, I I invite them to go and and look. Cause it it is just beautiful and inspiring and and it's it's a treat to be in contact with it with her work. Okay, so for ghosts, we have influences, histories, and lingering presences shaping the current work. Or maybe even your newsletter, anybody that specifically inspired that. you know what? nature. I've always been a lover of flowers and plants and stuff. But I haven't been very good with them. Like either I kill or nature hurts me. Like we have a really bad relationship like that. But lately, I've been able to to get flowers in my garden and I've been able to go outside. And I've been like now I'm I'm looking at more rocks. And it's it's just remembering like the perfection that already exists and that we have nothing to do with it. that is giving me a lot of inspiration and that is reminded me that we are also part of the creation. And if we didn't like push so hard to be distant from it, from the natural way of being, I think it would be easier. So yeah, nature is inspiring me a lot. I've been lucky to go to Maine a lot. lately and it's just I I just spend a lot of time there, but just rejoicing and and the perfection. I I also don't have a green thumb. although it sounds like you've developed one. no I just no I mean it's a little bit better. I bet there are those who tie nature not I I don't bet, I know that th there are those who tie nature back To actually the right wing, almost fascistic impulses, this idea of survival of the fittest and kill or be killed kind of attitude. And so I'm kind of wondering, you know, about your relationship to the indifference of nature, right? And maybe this is tying back to my own curiosity around, you know, where your sense of justice and values come from. because what What I was getting at is I feel like the fascists will argue that it's survival of the fittest. And so we will just dominate whoever has less because that's the natural order. And maybe what I'm really teeing you up here for is to talk about how that might not be true. I mean, it's true in some senses, like there there are some species or or some situations that that's how it acts, but there's so many other situations where different species support each other. And like and also like the the arguments of like it's not natural, we see with evidence more and more and more that that is not a like there's no rule for the natural. There are is like trans there are trans animals there are like gay penguins and other animals like the see horses being pregnant. You know, like there are no rules. So like it it's the same with I don't know, like any religion. You can use any religion and any text to be good or bad. And you can use nature to do the same. So it is the ill intentions. and I choose to use it in a gentle, soft way that it's accepting love. most people accept the intolerant. There's something you said earlier that made me think about the idea of being like water, which I associate with the Tao De Ch the Tao De Ching, which is, you know, the idea that Water seems very soft and it it doesn't seem scary in in many conditions, but in fact it's one of the most powerful forces, right? And yeah, that idea of kind of moving through things with a certain softness, but also being able to be tough. So guts is process, risk, and what it actually takes to get the work done. Intention. I think intentionality is huge. Yeah, but checking what is it that you want to do and every step is taking you closer or further from your intention. And that's back to intuition and and authenticity. Like if you practice hearing yourself, hearing your body, you have a clearer connection and and you can feel if if any step feels right or wrong. but having a goal or or an intention of what is the the bigger impact or or what is it that you want. I've always had it and I've always used it, but this time I'm including my well-being. I think the universe could have been gentler on how it let make me learn my lessons, but probably didn't because I wasn't listening. but I'm I'm very grateful that I I have a better connection and I I have better respect for myself and my time and my labor. Well, I was gonna ask, like if you feel a sense of relief now, like if your your newsletter is bringing like peace in your life. I mean, of course it it might be stressful because it's still work, but I I hope that it that project is really doing that for you. It it is. I I also like have been always been very insecure and since I'm here in the States on writing. of course this is my second language and it is I wasn't great at it. so that brings a lot of insecurities. That said, I was lucky to be to be a mentored in that area. Like so now I feel way better and and also I think I have my style and I am so excited by the people and that I'm speaking of or the plants or the food and I'm trying to be better at if there's a typo, there's a typo and like if someone's gonna like say like fuck this, this is not professional or whatever, like they probably weren't believing in the thing regardless. I feel like typos are a kind of a flex now because of AI for what that's worth. That it's like people are are leaving typos so that you know that it's not AI. I I was gonna make it. Yeah, fuck it. I feel like talking Hey, I feel like as evidenced by our podcast style, neither are we. That's beautiful. Yeah. Yes. Okay, so growth, what are the solutions you see or where do you see yourself in the future? I am very, very focused and only working with good people that are Doing very authentic integrity-based and ethic-based projects. So I when I was just thinking, like narrowing down like what I wanted to do, because I did a lot of exploration on how I wanted to show up in my career in this next phase, since all of my life I was following one guideline and like one path of this curatorial blah, blah, blah. Like, and at some point I was like, that is not. doing it for me anymore. It doesn't feel aligned. So I was like really trying to narrow down how how I was going to show up. And and so that being like facilitating and and doing some consulting, advising and strategy really with with good people, I was like, okay, this is what I want to do for sure. But it felt super abstract. And as I was just like taking classes and meditating a lot and and just doing things to try and have more clarity. I took a class and they were talking about newsletters and stuff. And I was like, my God, yeah. I but it was more like, why would I would talk about? Like why why a newsletter? And then I started thinking of all the people that have been inspiring me and that I've been wanting to to support and stuff. And I was like, I know such amazing people that are already doing the work, that are already being like revolutionary and breaking systems and stuff like I that let's show people like good ways of making like success story really and and good ways of making very capable or very attainable results and changes and then I can I can also help anyone that needs the help to conquer those goals. I c I kind of have a question. Well D would you say that in a way you're still kind of being a curator? You're just more so working for a specific person or like specific clients. Yes. I guess so. I haven't, to be honest, I haven't seen it like that. And I think my brain was preventing it. So thank you for undoing. Sorry. No, it's perfectly fine. I I I've loved my journey as a curator. And and yes, I think. Even if it's just like the newsletter content and stuff, like yes, I'm curating a very specific narrative and a very specific message, with outstanding people. And so yes, I am definitely curating. And the other side is is a lot of facilitation and a a lot of like making doing the right thing accessible. The logistical question just worth naming is like what's the best way to find you and get the newsletter? The the newsletter is called Yes, Please and Thank You. And I really struggle to like I was really looking for names. And then I was like, I want like I want this, or I saw something that I liked. And I was like, Yes, please and thank you. Like I want more of that. I was like, okay, that's the name of of the newsletter. And and someone owns that the URL. and they wanted a lot of money for it. And I was like, no, thank you. so it's why Patty. It's just the the first letter is why Patty. And one of my best friends is Patty. and I'm like, Why Patty? And so it works for me in many. That's great. so that whypati.com or if you want straight the the my practice, it's my name, Georgina Trevino dot com. So when Yoko Ono and John Lennon met, which putting aside, you know, a lot about them, but I remember there's this story about how what made John Lennon kind of fall in love with Yoko Ono was that she had a piece that was a ladder up to the ceiling. And you go up and you look and it just says yes. And there's something in that that you're reminding me of where he was so struck by the positivity and this. Time of darkness, which of course we're also living through. and the other thing I wanted to ask you is you know, this idea of good people. I think a lot about our kiddos are in Montessori. And something that I love about Montessori is that Maria Montessori was all about the peacemakers. she was, you know, in Fascist Italy, like Mussolini tried to get her into his government, and she kind of fled and made it her mission to find the peacemakers. So this is something that's really trained into them. But I mention it because I think about how that idea of what being good is can actually mean different things to different people. And so I'm curious if you can unpack what for you those good people, like what are those qualifications for you? So it's a lot of tolerance and a lot of love and no extraction. I I believe that we all should be having like kind relationships and that as much as we're I'm don't no longer believe in just like the hustle and working and like pouring yourself like that didn't work for me at all and I don't think it's been good for the universe. I I do think like it's seeing or community or neighbors and and seeing if they're missing something that we can give and and not only extracting from people or situations. So that that is huge for me. And that I that could be like in personal relationships, it could be in in how they treat a business, using people, like all of those things. I I don't align. with with that way of moving. Everyone should be whoever they want. And that's as long as they're not hurting someone. So no discrimination on any kind. except to the intolerant. and yeah, it's and yeah, just and I really believe in at this moment that to be honest and accepting that the systems that we've been practicing and and living through are not good. so I I believe that it is important that the people that I work with are very aware that something different has to happen and that they need to to show up in different ways and not the like that's how things are and that's we have to react to to do it like because that's allowed or because those are the rules or whatever. So I I generally I I'm around or I like to be surrounded by people that do things differently and try and correct versus adapt to what is not helpful. All right. Thank you so much, Coco. Thank you. Thank you, Coco. Look like a