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The Trinity Debate | John Metzger | The Week in Bible Prophecy · The Week in Bible Prophecy

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Speaker 1: The week in Bible Prophecy, a Prophecy Watchers Podcast.
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Speaker 2: Welcome everybody to the program today, moderns. All us here
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Speaker 2: in studio. We have a kind of a fun topic
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Speaker 2: which I think is a overlook topic. We're here with
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Speaker 2: John Metzker. Welcome, thank you, good to be here. And
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Speaker 2: John has been in ministry for thirty some years and
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Speaker 2: different things and done a lot with Jewish ministry, which
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Speaker 2: is why this is very important. Him and I are
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Speaker 2: like kindred spirits here because you know, we both value
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Speaker 2: the Jewish background of the scripture, and which is why
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Speaker 2: I went to Jewish I went to Moody to do
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Speaker 2: Jewish studies. It wasn't so much because I wanted to
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Speaker 2: be a Jewish evangelist in that regard. But I say
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Speaker 2: all the time that if Jesus was Chinese, I would
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Speaker 2: have done Chinese studies, right, yeah, I mean, I mean
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Speaker 2: we do what we do because again Hebrew, Jewish culture, communication,
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Speaker 2: other things like that. Well, one of the things that
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Speaker 2: that we're going to talk about today is oftentimes in
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Speaker 2: in uh in the Western Church, we talk about the Trinity,
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Speaker 2: which is becomes can be a bad word if you're
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Speaker 2: a Joviah's witness or even Jewish in their mind, there's
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Speaker 2: a lot of disinformation or confusion on that or Muslim
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Speaker 2: or most especially Yeah, it's very very where. You've written
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Speaker 2: a couple of books on this. The first one, which
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Speaker 2: is really the if you want to go as deep
1:30
Speaker 2: as you ever thought you could go as a listener
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Speaker 2: as a listener is John wrote a book called Discovering
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Speaker 2: the Mystery of the Unity of God. Now that's that's
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Speaker 2: very intentional, I imagine. And then your other kind of
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Speaker 2: abridgment is the tri Unity of God is Jewish, and
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Speaker 2: so maybe if you will share a little bit about
1:50
Speaker 2: what led you to this again in Jewish ministry, so
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Speaker 2: obviously the Trinity is very challenging for two, for a
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Speaker 2: Jewish person because they have their own preconceived idea I
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Speaker 2: imagine of what that is or isn't, because doesn't everybody
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Speaker 2: know we worship three different gods? Right? Is that the definition?
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Speaker 2: That's what they say. That's what they say. So maybe
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Speaker 2: share us with us how you came to number one
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Speaker 2: to be drawn to this, and then how the Lord
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Speaker 2: brought you to it.
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Speaker 1: Well, I was taking my classes for my graduate work
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Speaker 1: at Lancaster Bible College Graduate School and I had to
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Speaker 1: write a thesis. Well, being in Jewish work, I thought, well,
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Speaker 1: I got to write something that pertains to what I'm doing.
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Speaker 1: So I decided on talking about the plurality that God
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Speaker 1: had the deity of Messiah, which is what is the
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Speaker 1: two subjects that are in that book.
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Speaker 2: And as I got into it.
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Speaker 1: I actually asked doctor Frucktenbaum one time, says, Arnold, is
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Speaker 1: there anything written on this? And he said not much?
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Speaker 2: Wow.
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Speaker 1: And so I spent all together ten years on the
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Speaker 1: discovering the mystery. The other one that took me four years,
3:08
Speaker 1: so I spent additional six years coming on the other one.
3:13
Speaker 1: But I wanted to get on that because I knew
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Speaker 1: that there was an issue with Jewish people of Jesus
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Speaker 1: can't be God, there can't be a trinity. God is one,
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Speaker 1: and of course you know that's how they quote the Schamah,
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Speaker 1: and of course they misquoted. And thanks to Moses mammonides
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Speaker 1: why he twisted some words around so it would do
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Speaker 1: away with the whole aspect that God could be a
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Speaker 1: plurality in one. So I got into it because I
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Speaker 1: just simply wanted to know more about it. And after
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Speaker 1: writing in this one, nine hundred pages. You know, there's
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Speaker 1: still things I don't understand. Ah, how do you how
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Speaker 1: do you describe the trinity or the triunity? I can't.
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Speaker 2: And what do you think that is? Do you think
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Speaker 2: that's based on the fact that, you know, obviously we're finite.
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Speaker 2: God's infinite, He's He's the logic. It's not illogical, right, No,
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Speaker 2: it's not illogical. I think it's just our limits. Do
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Speaker 2: you think one day we'll be able to grasp what
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Speaker 2: that exactly looks like?
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Speaker 1: I hope. So the one thing that's bugged me over
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Speaker 1: the years, you know, people try to describe the Trinity.
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Speaker 1: They say, oh, it's like an egg, you know on
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Speaker 1: the three point or it's like water, you know, in
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Speaker 1: the three aspects, you know, And I heard that too
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Speaker 1: many times to number.
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Speaker 2: Do you address those at all in here? No?
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Speaker 1: Okay, But what I do address is that we are
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Speaker 1: made in his image and in His likeness, and I
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Speaker 1: believe that man is a triconomist. Now, I know there's
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Speaker 1: people who are dieconomy.
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Speaker 2: Sure, and uh, maybe maybe let's not go too fast
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Speaker 2: explain the words because some people might not know what
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Speaker 2: that means.
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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, there there is the invisible part of man
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Speaker 1: and the visible part of man, and the invisible part
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Speaker 1: of man. I have soul and spirit, which make up
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Speaker 1: part of our being. So their soul, spirit and body first,
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Speaker 1: that's one chapter five.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, So.
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Speaker 1: The body everybody sees, it's visible, whereas the soul and
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Speaker 1: spirit we don't see. It's invisible. It's in material, not immaterial.
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Speaker 1: That's what's that's the wrong word. I wanted on corporeal.
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Speaker 1: So you know, and I look at Genesis one twenty
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Speaker 1: six and God says he created us in his image.
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Speaker 1: Now we know God became visible, but we also know
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Speaker 1: with the Theophanes, which is when God appears in a
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Speaker 1: form that man can tolerate, that that individual was always
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Speaker 1: the second person of the Godhead, and he was the
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Speaker 1: only one that became visible, which means you have God
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Speaker 1: the Father, and God the Holy Spirit that are invisible.
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Speaker 1: In fact, you go into the Gospel of John, John
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Speaker 1: says no one has seen God at any time, and
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Speaker 1: that's his essence. We we be chrispy critters if we moses.
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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, you can't see me.
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Speaker 1: So and you have in John five, you know saying
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Speaker 1: I always love to say it, Jesus was speaking to
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Speaker 1: his adoring fan club, the Pharisees. But ay Jesus said,
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Speaker 1: you have never heard his voice at any time nor
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Speaker 1: seen his shape. Now Nashal Israel, Exodus twenty, they heard
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Speaker 1: his voice and they saw theophany A couple chapters later,
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Speaker 1: when Moses Nahapenabayhu and the seventy elders.
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Speaker 2: Went right, Yeah, they were having dinner with him, right right.
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Speaker 1: And so here's this person who is three and one.
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Speaker 1: I can't comprehend that except that we're three and one.
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Speaker 1: We're body, soul, and spirit. Now, how God maneuvers that
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Speaker 1: he's God? That's, as I say, that's way above my
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Speaker 1: pay grade. But nonetheless, the scriptures distinctly teach three members
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Speaker 1: of the Godhead, even where you have them interacting back
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Speaker 1: and forth. Yeah, so the scriptures teach it. I don't
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Speaker 1: have to understand it. I just follow what the scripture says.
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Speaker 2: You go through.
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Speaker 1: Jenesis one, it's elheim, it's plural. You don't have yahweh
8:24
Speaker 1: showing up until chapter two, which is emphasizing oneeness. So
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Speaker 1: you start going through this stuff. But that Eliheim, and
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Speaker 1: I will make man in our image after our likeness.
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Speaker 1: I can't push it. Much further than that. So god
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Speaker 1: Man is not like an egg, man is not like water.
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Speaker 1: Man was created in his image after his likeness. I
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Speaker 1: can't go any further than that with it. I don't
9:07
Speaker 1: think I can anyway, But it's a fascinating subject because
9:15
Speaker 1: Islam thinks, if I recall correctly that we worship Mary,
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Speaker 1: she's part of the Godhead. If I've recalled that was
9:22
Speaker 1: one of the things that really got under the Mohammed's skin. Well,
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Speaker 1: I'm sure it was a corruption in the.
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Speaker 2: Church, there's no doubt. Yeah, in the medieval church, yeah,
9:32
Speaker 2: institutionalized Roman Church for sure. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: So at any rate, it's been a fascinating subject and
9:42
Speaker 1: from that it has spurned other aspects of it. And
9:47
Speaker 1: again I'm working on that now with a new book
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Speaker 1: where I'm fascinating with seeing the person of Christ. And
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Speaker 1: I'm not chrysocentric, which simply means I'm not reading Jesus'
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Speaker 1: artificial into every verse in chapter of the Bible. However,
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Speaker 1: he is there, but it's not christ ocentric theology or
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Speaker 1: interpretations not being forced in and literally when Jesus said
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Speaker 1: in John five thirty nine, you search the scriptures for
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Speaker 1: in them you think you have a turn of they
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Speaker 1: are they that testify of.
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Speaker 2: Me?
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Speaker 1: And he's talking about the Tanakh, he's talking about thirty
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Speaker 1: nine books a Jewish Bible twenty four or twenty yeah
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Speaker 1: four two. I forgot he's there. So why does Christianity
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Speaker 1: refuse because they have to see Christ in the Old
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Speaker 1: Testament except for First Coming prophecies they have when he's there.
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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm reading through Jeremiah and Ezekiel and the Lord.
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Speaker 1: And again it's a singular word, so it can be
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Speaker 1: the Father, it could be the Son, and it could
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Speaker 1: be the Holy Spirit because they're all Lord. I can't
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Speaker 1: explain it further than that. But when you have the
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Speaker 1: Lord saying I am your creator, well we know who
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Speaker 1: the creator was, not that the Father and the Holy
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Speaker 1: Spirit were not involved. They were involved, but according to
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Speaker 1: Classian's one.
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Speaker 2: He's the creator John one.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, jumpers one, he's the creator. You start opening this
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Speaker 1: up and then he says, I am your redeemer. The
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Speaker 1: Father was never the redeemer. The Son through his blood
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Speaker 1: became the redeemer, the blood of the New Covenant. And
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Speaker 1: you start unwrapping this stuff. And when the Lord says, ah,
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Speaker 1: I brought you out of Egypt. When we know who
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Speaker 1: brought Israel out of Egypt, that it was a theophany
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Speaker 1: of God. It was the Shakhaina Glory. It was the
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Speaker 1: second person of the God had the pre incarnate Messiah.
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Speaker 1: We know who it is, the one who appeared to
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Speaker 1: Israel and Judges chapter two, who said the same thing,
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Speaker 1: the Angel of the Lord, a theophany of God. The
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Speaker 1: Angel definite article, absolutely mind boggling to me. I used
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Speaker 1: to relegate Jesus to the New Testament except for prophecies.
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Speaker 1: And then I saw Isaiah fifty, the Lord speaking. You
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Speaker 1: awakened me morning by morning. I didn't know God slept right,
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Speaker 1: and you taught me. I didn't know God had to
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Speaker 1: be taught anything. And then it says two verses or
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Speaker 1: the next verse, they pulled the hair out of my face,
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Speaker 1: and they spit in my face. And then you have
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Speaker 1: in Zachariah twelve ten they pierced my side. You can't
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Speaker 1: do that to a spirit that's God's son, and he's
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Speaker 1: speaking as Yahweh Lord, and there's others. Yeah, and then
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Speaker 1: you've got a whole mix of things like you have
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Speaker 1: in Ecclesiastes twelve one. Remember your creator in the days
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Speaker 1: of year youth, and that's plural, it's plural. Yeah, so
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Speaker 1: all were involved, but it evidently appears that it's the
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Speaker 1: Son that is given the credit. And that may be
13:52
Speaker 1: bad words, but yeah, I'm that idea.
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Speaker 2: No doubt to me. I find it amazing where you
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Speaker 2: see this in the Church and so especially some of
14:02
Speaker 2: the early writings, you know, Arianism and other heresies that
14:06
Speaker 2: that were at least were declared hers. But you see
14:08
Speaker 2: this today in some other groups, those that are a
14:13
Speaker 2: part of the Philadelphia and I don't if you ever
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Speaker 2: see them where they they're okay with you know, Jesus
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Speaker 2: being deity. It's really hard to get around that one.
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Speaker 2: But they will deny the Holy spirits personality role and uh,
14:32
Speaker 2: you know they lean on and we see this even
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Speaker 2: in Rabbinic or early Rabbinic, the you know Benitarian instead
14:38
Speaker 2: of Trinitarian, Benitarian, the Two Powers in Heaven, all these
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Speaker 2: different books that were that are understood written recently Alan Sagall,
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Speaker 2: people can check it out. He's a Jewish guy, he's
14:48
Speaker 2: definitely not Christian, but he's writing about that. How he
14:51
Speaker 2: they recognized early on certainly Second Temple period time of
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Speaker 2: Jesus they recognize two powers at the minimum and uh.
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Speaker 2: But later the rabbis ended up condemning it as heresy
15:02
Speaker 2: because it was connection with Jesus. Now this is too close,
15:06
Speaker 2: and so you see some of that. But you know,
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Speaker 2: you go to Matthew twenty eight, you know, the great commission,
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Speaker 2: go and baptize in them in the name singular of
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Speaker 2: the Father said in the Holy Spirit. How does that work?
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Speaker 1: Yeah? And so you have some of these and Isaiah
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Speaker 1: forty eight, you know verse twelve, you know, I created you,
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Speaker 1: I called you. I created the heavens and the earth.
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Speaker 1: And then you get down a couple more verses and
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Speaker 1: it says there and the Lord God and his Spirit
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Speaker 1: sent me.
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Speaker 2: I love it.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's my favorite verse in the Old Testament. And
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Speaker 1: then you go to the Gospel John John records Jesus
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Speaker 1: saying forty three times the Father sent me. That's a
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Speaker 1: direct relationship back to Isaiah forty eight, sixteen, and there's
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Speaker 1: all three members of the God had clearly clearly yep
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Speaker 1: in the Old Testament or the Tuna. Yes, it's just
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Speaker 1: you know Isaiah fifty four about you have your Maker
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Speaker 1: and your husband, and it's plural, it's literally your makers,
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Speaker 1: and your husband's is the Lord, God Almighty and the Redeemer.
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Speaker 1: However that I can't remember. I don't have my text
16:34
Speaker 1: opened here right now, but there's just too many times.
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Speaker 1: And then of course then there's a shama, and I'm
16:42
Speaker 1: you're probably going to ask me about that, so.
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Speaker 2: Well, you know, let's let's let's talk about this shama
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Speaker 2: because you have that in you know, in the book,
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Speaker 2: certainly chapter five here, you know, talk about I had
16:57
Speaker 2: this recently, and I mentioned this in a previous conversation
17:00
Speaker 2: with you, but I won't go into details, but except
17:02
Speaker 2: to say that there was a friend of mine who
17:06
Speaker 2: is Jewish Orthodox, and he had asked the question of Christians,
17:10
Speaker 2: not a follower of Jesus, you know, and he said,
17:13
Speaker 2: I don't understand how Christians get around the Shema. I
17:17
Speaker 2: mean the Shema, and maybe you know, the Shama is
17:22
Speaker 2: so crystal clear. And he was like, look, I'm not
17:24
Speaker 2: trying to find anybody, but I just you guys are Christians,
17:27
Speaker 2: and you you know, you believe this and that, and
17:30
Speaker 2: and their particular understanding is they make the claim, which
17:35
Speaker 2: is erroneous, that Christians have taken a normal man, Jesus
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Speaker 2: of Nazareth and then elevated him to God. And and
17:45
Speaker 2: he says, you can't. You know. See, they don't phrase
17:50
Speaker 2: say God became man. They say man became God. And
17:53
Speaker 2: so we're like, well that that's not what we believe.
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Speaker 2: But so list is deroonomy six four. Let me let
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Speaker 2: me read it, but you could have quoted it. But
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Speaker 2: here you go, Hero Israel, the Lord our God, the
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Speaker 2: Lord is One. And then it goes on, you shall
18:06
Speaker 2: love the Lord your God with all your heart, your soul,
18:08
Speaker 2: and your strength, and these things I command to you
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Speaker 2: you be in your heart. Okay, So for him as
18:16
Speaker 2: this is, this is the This is the key nugget
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Speaker 2: of Judaism, which is great, the greatest commandment. Jesus said
18:22
Speaker 2: it in the New Testament. So he's like, what, come on, Christian,
18:27
Speaker 2: how do you guys explain this? The Lord is One?
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Speaker 2: So talk about how here you have a Jewish guy
18:35
Speaker 2: who loves Rabbinic Judaism and he hasn't been I don't
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Speaker 2: think taught what this what his own book in Hebrew.
18:48
Speaker 2: This guy speaks Hebrews in Israeli. So talk about that.
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Speaker 2: You bring it up certainly in the in the book.
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Speaker 1: Well, the first thing will say. In that verse are
18:56
Speaker 1: two clauses. The Lord are God. Lord is singular is
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Speaker 1: Shahweh God is where elehinu that's plural.
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Speaker 2: So the Lord our God. So you have.
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Speaker 1: Singular plural. Then you go to the next coupland the
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Speaker 1: Lord singular is one. Now there's where the problem comes
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Speaker 1: in for them and what most people and and and
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Speaker 1: I don't I don't understand this because Jewish people are
19:35
Speaker 1: smart people. The word God, and it's used over three
19:43
Speaker 1: hundred times in the Torah, and it always means minimally
19:51
Speaker 1: in the context of plurality. For instance, Genesis one, in
20:00
Speaker 1: the evening and the morning, where the e cod day
20:05
Speaker 1: two things became one call the composite unity.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And then you have.
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Speaker 1: My mind, well, Genesis.
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Speaker 2: Two twenty four at it, I mean the husband in.
20:21
Speaker 1: Life right became one flesh, a cod flesh. And so
20:27
Speaker 1: you start looking at this verse. I mean, for instance,
20:30
Speaker 1: if you're going to make a sacrifice, it goes and says,
20:35
Speaker 1: take an a cod lamb. Well, where do you go
20:37
Speaker 1: to get in a cod lamb? You have to go
20:40
Speaker 1: into a plural environment. You go into the flock and
20:46
Speaker 1: you pull one out for the sacrifice, and I realized
20:52
Speaker 1: there are a whole bunch of different labels people have
20:54
Speaker 1: done with this, but I just try to keep it
20:58
Speaker 1: simple for people. A cod minimally is always in a
21:06
Speaker 1: plural context. So then you have the word jakid. That's
21:14
Speaker 1: the word that they say, but is not in their Hebrew.
21:20
Speaker 1: It's not in Deuteronomy six'. Four jakid is not.
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Speaker 2: There he is absolute, unity, yes Like islamic absolute, one,
21:30
Speaker 2: absolutely not a compositive absolute. One.
21:33
Speaker 1: Right and so here you have the background of that
21:39
Speaker 1: Is Mamondides and again he knew what he was.
21:42
Speaker 2: Doing we knew exactly what he is.
21:44
Speaker 1: Doing he, says These christians are teaching That god is
21:47
Speaker 1: a plurality and they're using this. Verse so we're going
21:50
Speaker 1: to change and use a cod jakid instead of A.
21:55
Speaker 1: God we're going to get away from the plurality of
21:59
Speaker 1: the god head to the and stamp down on the
22:01
Speaker 1: oneness of.
22:02
Speaker 2: Godhead. Change he, changed and the scrab eyes, Followed, yep.
22:08
Speaker 1: How you can do? THAT i, mean you, Know i'm
22:14
Speaker 1: not A hebrew, expert BUT i know the difference between
22:17
Speaker 1: words and ya kid is not yah a, god especially
22:24
Speaker 1: when you have him used In genesis twenty. Two in
22:27
Speaker 1: the same, Verse, abram take Your yahid's. Son that Was
22:33
Speaker 1: god have a memory. Problem he had two. Sons, yeah what.
22:35
Speaker 1: Happened he's talking about the promised. Son take that promised,
22:40
Speaker 1: Son yakid, son the ONE i. Authorized you did the
22:44
Speaker 1: other one on your own without my.
22:46
Speaker 2: Permission, yeah that didn't work out too.
22:50
Speaker 1: Well, No, no that's that's been a thorn in their
22:53
Speaker 1: side and still.
22:54
Speaker 2: Is but.
22:58
Speaker 1: There you are with take Your yakid. Son and then he,
23:03
Speaker 1: says take him to one of The echad mountains THAT
23:09
Speaker 1: i will show. You and that was. One there were
23:13
Speaker 1: series of mountains there in that Mountain. Chaine one Was Mount.
23:17
Speaker 1: Mariah so there he uses both words and the very
23:23
Speaker 1: distinctness to meaning it's not.
23:26
Speaker 2: Confusing, no, No.
23:29
Speaker 1: And yet we Have judaism that has and again it's
23:34
Speaker 1: because of their hatred of that, man, yep that they
23:41
Speaker 1: they want TO i always say about The. Massarets The
23:47
Speaker 1: massarets did a marvelous job in translating The Old testament
23:51
Speaker 1: into The New, testament except For messianic, passages isn't. That,
23:58
Speaker 1: yeah where if they had the opportunity with the accent,
24:02
Speaker 1: marks because there were no accent marks before that that
24:07
Speaker 1: they could take something and change the meaning away From,
24:12
Speaker 1: messiah and that's what they.
24:13
Speaker 2: Did they made it. Ambiguous, yeah so it's it's absolutely.
24:22
Speaker 1: Fascinating.
24:22
Speaker 2: Subject, yeah talk about the WHICH i think is WHERE
24:28
Speaker 2: i think probably well super important as all of it.
24:31
Speaker 2: Is BUT i think in The Christian church you have
24:34
Speaker 2: those that are again have less problem with the deity Of,
24:37
Speaker 2: jesus you know Again john one one other, Passages but
24:41
Speaker 2: talk about The Holy, spirit and because you have again
24:45
Speaker 2: you have a lot to say on, that just talking
24:47
Speaker 2: about The Holy spirit in The tanak because oftentimes WHAT
24:50
Speaker 2: i hear people is they'll, say, well when you see
24:56
Speaker 2: the spirit Of, god they're gonna, say, well that's the
24:59
Speaker 2: spirit of The, father that's The father's own. Spirit you're
25:04
Speaker 2: familiar and. So but so it's interesting there as you
25:09
Speaker 2: Reference isaiah forty, eight Where god and his, spirits that
25:16
Speaker 2: seems like redundant if it was the same me and,
25:20
Speaker 2: myself me and my own spirit are gonna send you
25:24
Speaker 2: know the mess. Iphy, Yeah so talk about that if
25:26
Speaker 2: there was any as you were working through that and documenting,
25:29
Speaker 2: that you give us some.
25:30
Speaker 1: Background, AGAIN i enjoy that passage because it's so. Clear
25:35
Speaker 1: the doctor in The Holy spirit is harder to nail
25:39
Speaker 1: down in The. Talk it is, there it is, there
25:45
Speaker 1: but it's harder to nail down in The New. Testament
25:49
Speaker 1: it's a whole lot easier because there you have you
25:53
Speaker 1: don't grieve with The Holy, spirit and you will be
25:58
Speaker 1: in dwelt By God's Holy. Spirit and that's not The
26:02
Speaker 1: father coming. In so there's just so much. Stuff my
26:11
Speaker 1: mind is slipping as to remembering all the passages with.
26:17
Speaker 2: That But i'll give you yea from there for your.
26:22
Speaker 1: Own, yeah, YEAH i remember. That, well, yeah well that's to. Try,
26:29
Speaker 1: yeah you have The isaiah sixty. One isaiah sixty, three
26:34
Speaker 1: which deals again with all three members of The god
26:36
Speaker 1: had not as clear As isaiah forty, eight but it's,
26:39
Speaker 1: there and And i'm just trying to because the term
26:48
Speaker 1: spirit is, breath and The Holy spirit would come upon
26:57
Speaker 1: individuals to fulfill tasks like the seventy, elders LIKE i
27:02
Speaker 1: can't pronounce his, name the guy that helped do the
27:05
Speaker 1: uh tabernacle.
27:08
Speaker 2: Work what's his? Name Missalia aller?
27:13
Speaker 1: Uh and Even bail, yeah And joshua uh. Hm it Isn't.
27:21
Speaker 1: God The father came down upon them and it Wasn't
27:27
Speaker 1: god The son, either because he takes takes on a different.
27:33
Speaker 1: Form it's either in the form of a man or
27:36
Speaker 1: it's a shakina. Glory even in, visions they still don't See.
27:43
Speaker 1: God they See.
27:48
Speaker 2: Lord, yeah they See.
27:49
Speaker 1: Yeshua it's been so long Since i've gone into. This
27:57
Speaker 1: that's one of the things about getting. Old you forget
27:59
Speaker 1: more then you. Remember it's a good thing you have written.
28:02
Speaker 2: Down oh.
28:03
Speaker 1: YEAH i mean every once in a WHILE i pick
28:04
Speaker 1: up SOMETHING i READ i, said, wow DID i really write?
28:07
Speaker 2: Write? Oh that's good exactly.
28:11
Speaker 1: So but The Holy spirit is. THERE i, MEAN i
28:15
Speaker 1: know today you have, one This pentecostal you do you?
28:18
Speaker 2: Know?
28:19
Speaker 1: Uh AND i know that The assemblies Of god pulled
28:22
Speaker 1: out of that group over the issue of The trinity
28:24
Speaker 1: because they believe in The trinity and the one this people.
28:27
Speaker 1: Don't so it's just some it's.
28:32
Speaker 2: Interesting it can be very confusing because it's, like, WELL i,
28:36
Speaker 2: WAS i was doing a podcast not too long, ago and,
28:38
Speaker 2: uh as a, gentleman he and he, said, oh you,
28:40
Speaker 2: Know i'm trying to explain the. Trinity you, KNOW i
28:43
Speaker 2: just you, Know i'm a, father But i'm a brother
28:47
Speaker 2: And i'm a, husband and and and.
28:50
Speaker 1: THAT i.
28:52
Speaker 2: Go he, said you, know so that's my explanation For.
28:55
Speaker 2: TRINITY i, said, well that really DOESN'T i hated to say.
28:56
Speaker 2: IT i, said that really doesn't. Work those are just
28:59
Speaker 2: three titles for the same. Person you, know The bible,
29:02
Speaker 2: is you, know we believe in, one one what and three?
29:05
Speaker 2: WHO i, mean that's classically. Right we believe in One
29:09
Speaker 2: god for SOME d two. Five but we believe in three.
29:12
Speaker 2: PERSONS i mean that and whatever that however that. Fits
29:15
Speaker 2: BUT i don't have a violation of my own. Will
29:18
Speaker 2: i'm not praying to. Myself jesus is in the garden
29:21
Speaker 2: praying to The. Father he's not praying to himself just
29:23
Speaker 2: because he had a different mask. ON i, go it's
29:26
Speaker 2: it's a little bit more complicated than. That but, again
29:27
Speaker 2: what we do, recognize and you, know, again as you've
29:30
Speaker 2: written so, much you, know thousands of, pages is, uh
29:34
Speaker 2: we don't deny what the text. Says we're not here
29:37
Speaker 2: claiming that we can comprehend all of.
29:39
Speaker 1: It And I'm i'm grateful for the illumination of The
29:46
Speaker 1: Holy spirit to help us to see things that we
29:50
Speaker 1: didn't see. Before, Yeah jesus very specific ministry is upper
29:56
Speaker 1: course or upper room. Discourse you know that he The
30:00
Speaker 1: Holy spirit would. Come that's not the thought of, coming
30:05
Speaker 1: that's The Holy spirit. Coming just how do you Explain?
30:12
Speaker 1: GOD i mean you've used the word, awesome but that
30:14
Speaker 1: word gets.
30:15
Speaker 2: Old any word is going to be, insignat is going
30:19
Speaker 2: to be, incomplete, right, yeah it. Will AND i wouldn't
30:21
Speaker 2: expect us again to in our in our brains to
30:25
Speaker 2: fully grasp the. Complexities how could. We he's infinite in
30:29
Speaker 2: all of his, complexities and so we recognize but that those,
30:34
Speaker 2: limits but we don't deny what's in the, text, Right
30:38
Speaker 2: AND i Picture god kind of, going, Hey, michael watch. This,
30:41
Speaker 2: Well i'm gonna put some things in. Here let's see
30:43
Speaker 2: how they work that, out you, know and uh. Trying
30:46
Speaker 2: and this is WHY i think you have so much
30:48
Speaker 2: heresy and and understanding Again arianism as you, know as an,
30:51
Speaker 2: example Denying jesus deity and others that that, modalism you, Know,
30:54
Speaker 2: sibellianism all these Early christian heresies because in all the
31:00
Speaker 2: only century ones that we have exactly YEAH. J, dubbs, Others,
31:04
Speaker 2: UNITARIANS i, mean they're all here is because there there,
31:08
Speaker 2: is it is it can be, confusing but yet there's
31:11
Speaker 2: enough there that obviously you've written a, thousand thousands of
31:16
Speaker 2: ages on, it so you, know, yeah only nine, yeah
31:20
Speaker 2: nine hundred discovering and so, anyways we'll just we'll wrap up,
31:23
Speaker 2: here but discovering the mystery of the unity Of. God
31:26
Speaker 2: AND i encourage, you you, know if you really want
31:29
Speaker 2: to get an introduction into The god that we serve
31:34
Speaker 2: and exactly what that looks.
31:35
Speaker 1: Like and it really is one of a, kind because
31:37
Speaker 1: there's nothing out there that deals with.
31:39
Speaker 2: It, yeah AND i appreciate it, too because you're you're even.
31:42
Speaker 2: Here The triunity Of god Is. Jewish that if you
31:45
Speaker 2: have A jewish friend who's struggling with this and they
31:47
Speaker 2: they have their own kind of a straw man about
31:51
Speaker 2: What christianity says or doesn't, say that these are these
31:55
Speaker 2: are very helpful resources for.
31:56
Speaker 1: That and just a side note on, THAT i wrote
32:02
Speaker 1: The Big one in that one as, well and somebody
32:05
Speaker 1: Said jewish people aren't going to read that too, much too,
32:09
Speaker 1: much SO i wrote another book Called god In, Eclipse
32:15
Speaker 1: and by the, way it has nothing to do with blood.
32:16
Speaker 1: Moons in other, words the idea Behind god eclips is
32:22
Speaker 1: what is eclipsing The god Of israel from his. People ah, yeah,
32:27
Speaker 1: okay and so What i've done is simplified. Greatly what
32:35
Speaker 1: is in the nine hundred pages and the four hundred
32:37
Speaker 1: pages dealing with or it's written To jewish. Unbelievers, yeah
32:46
Speaker 1: that's my audience BECAUSE i want to show them the
32:52
Speaker 1: Plurality godhead is in their. Scriptures they cannot deny. It
32:56
Speaker 1: it is in their. Scriptures it's. THERE i, mean they
32:59
Speaker 1: can deny, it but they're being they're, blind you, know
33:04
Speaker 1: they're willingly. Willing and SO i have this book that
33:10
Speaker 1: is Really i'm a, Teacher i'm not an, evangelist but
33:14
Speaker 1: this is an evangelistic. Book and uh so if you
33:19
Speaker 1: have people out there that you Know jewish, people this
33:24
Speaker 1: is a good book to get.
33:24
Speaker 2: WITH i mean it's very. Manageable, yes it's paper and it's. Accessible, yeah.
33:31
Speaker 1: Absolutely AND i also have it In, RUSSIAN i have
33:35
Speaker 1: it In, spanish AND i have it In, french AND
33:39
Speaker 1: i have it In. Hebrew so those are the predominant
33:43
Speaker 1: languages That jewish people. Speak so really recommend, that. Amen
33:53
Speaker 1: that is there's we In jewish ministry write About jewish. People,
34:01
Speaker 1: yeah but this has written to them and then bout
34:06
Speaker 1: them and the truth is is applicable to all.
34:10
Speaker 2: People So, john appreciate your. Time oh thank. You we've
34:13
Speaker 2: had a great time hanging out and getting to some
34:15
Speaker 2: of the nitty gritty of a variety of theological. Topics
34:19
Speaker 2: AND i just thought this would be very helpful because
34:21
Speaker 2: there is a lot of confusion out, there not not
34:24
Speaker 2: only For jewish, people but in the church as. Well
34:26
Speaker 2: and so thank you for listening to, everybody and appreciate
34:30
Speaker 2: everything you. Know as, ALWAYS i just, say appreciate your
34:32
Speaker 2: prayers and support for what we do, here and we
34:35
Speaker 2: will catch you next. Time