Latest / Coffee People Podcast / S5:E1 - Kenny Fletcher, Owner & Head Roaster of Paper Tiger Coffee Roasters: An Interview

Transcript

S5:E1 - Kenny Fletcher, Owner & Head Roaster of Paper Tiger Coffee Roasters: An Interview · Coffee People Podcast

0:14
Hey, good morning everyone, welcome back to season 5
0:17
episode, 1 of the roast, West Coast coffee podcast, welcome
0:22
back. It feels good to be back.
0:25
I'm Ryan Walton. This is the show where I bring
0:27
you the stories of coffee professionals entrepreneurs.
0:30
The Premiership and coffee education, you may have noticed
0:34
that are in between the seasons. Break was much shorter, this
0:38
time around, that's because and I think you'll think this is
0:42
good news, we'll be dropping shows every week for the
0:45
foreseeable future with only about a week off in between
0:48
Seasons. There are just too many good
0:50
coffee stories to tell things to learn people to meet and places.
0:54
I want to go visit I'll get into some more details about season 5
0:58
changes, including a You of upcoming shows after today's
1:02
interview, I recently, sat down to chat with Kenny Fletcher.
1:06
Kenny is the owner-operator roaster.
1:08
Everything at paper tiger Coffee Roasters in Vancouver,
1:12
Washington, just across the border from Portland.
1:15
Oregon Portland has long had a reputation for being coffee
1:18
forward but Vancouver has been on the come up for some time.
1:23
You'll notice early on that Kenny is a quote machine.
1:27
I have a half a dozen scribbled notes about Something that he
1:30
said, being the theme of the show, then I've scribbled that
1:34
out because something else he said was so insightful and then
1:38
I did that again. And again, one of my favorites
1:41
is quote, we're not just going to be in the community, we're
1:45
going to be part of the community and that also
1:48
describes how I feel about this show and the coffee community at
1:52
large today. We're going to cover Kenny's
1:54
entrepreneurial Journey. His work teaching coffee and
1:57
coffee roasting to deaf, and or blind.
2:00
It's from the community and how the coffee community in the
2:03
Pacific Northwest looks out for each other.
2:06
If you've got a moment while you're listening today I'd
2:09
really appreciate it if you would had to roast westcoast.com
2:12
and subscribe to the newsletter that goes along with this show
2:15
and I know it's offered for free but please consider a paid
2:18
subscription to help support the creation of this content until
2:22
May 5th. There's a 50% off subscription
2:25
that enables me to purchase a cup of coffee every month.
2:27
Fueling my coffee content production, And it's a great way
2:31
to support the creation of this podcast and the sharing of
2:34
Coffee News coffee smarter education, coffee, jobs, and so
2:38
much more that I put into each newsletter.
2:40
I'm going to add that link into the show notes and you can also
2:43
find it on roast westcoast.com. Speaking of I really need a cup
2:50
of coffee and I've been drinking pour overs of a single origin,
2:53
Brazilian coffee that Kenny sent down to me that I think is
2:56
called chahti. I apologize.
2:58
If I'm mispronouncing that name, it's spelled c-- h-- ATI, it has
3:03
flavor notes of smooth, cocoa, caramel and light nut, flavor,
3:06
all of which are coming through for me in a very enjoyable way.
3:10
A shout-out to j.c. farms in the car made de Minas region of
3:13
Brazil, where this coffee was produced if you Already filled
3:18
your coffee mug. This morning, you should because
3:21
it's time for this interview with Kenny Fletcher of paper
3:24
tiger Coffee, Roasters in Vancouver, Washington.
3:43
I can always appreciate it. A gentleman with a bald head.
3:47
It's so much easier than hair. Honestly, I grew my hair back
3:52
for the first time in December, just because I was lazy, it
3:56
lasted a month or two and my wife just as Like you know what,
4:00
either shave it or I'm out of here and I said, alright,
4:04
alright, I didn't cut my hair for a little over a year after I
4:07
got out of the military and look kind of like Grizzly Adams hair
4:11
down. The middle of my back beard down
4:12
to my chest and sitting a combing.
4:14
It out one day and drying it with.
4:16
This is a joke man, it was so much easier without any hair.
4:20
So it back in the 90s and it's never come back.
4:23
Good for you. Well, I would say, you know,
4:26
Kenny welcome to the roast West Coast coffee.
4:28
Cast. If you could for me, just say
4:32
your name, the name of your business and kind of what,
4:34
you're what, you consider your job title to be there.
4:38
Fair enough. My name is Kenny, Fletcher, my
4:40
wife, Sue and I own paper tiger Coffee Roasters here, in
4:43
Vancouver, Washington www. Dot paper, tiger coffee.com,
4:47
trying to find it and roastmaster / boss, man.
4:53
I guess I don't really carry much of a title is co-manager or
4:59
something. I forget what the corporation
5:01
document says but about his titles like it.
5:05
Yeah, I mean as an owner, I think you do a lot of different
5:08
things always, but I'm always curious to know what people
5:10
think of their of themselves as and I want to get into paper
5:14
Tiger but I want to start with you.
5:17
You personally how did coffee come into your life?
5:21
What made you think that you were interested in it?
5:24
And this is before even starting paper tiger?
5:26
What was kind of a memory you might have of that.
5:28
Coffee experience. So, so, grown up.
5:30
The first couple experiences were horrible.
5:32
I wouldn't even drink coffee until I got to the military
5:35
because I mean, my father and grandfather were both military
5:39
and they always had Folgers, my grandparents being
5:43
depression-era. They, they put everything in the
5:45
freezer to Make It Last Forever. Pull it out that morning scoop
5:48
some in there, you know, shove it right back in the freezer and
5:51
just slowly freezer burn that stuff to death.
5:54
We didn't know any better at the time because that's all I knew
5:57
and it was just terrible. So, I didn't tell I needed it
6:00
and then I started having coffee and it was pretty bad too, but
6:05
then few years, go down the road and I was working at a ski
6:08
resort, and I picked up a few extra hours working at the
6:12
local, little coffee cart. That was there just slinging
6:15
drinks as fast as possible. They were terrible as well like
6:18
seven second shots of the. And here here, give me seven
6:24
bucks and get out there and go have some more fun on the snow.
6:26
Get warm again. Then I went to a good coffee
6:29
shop and had a proper cup when I was up in Salt Lake.
6:33
And I forget the name honestly, but I had gone up to Salt Lake
6:37
City for a training session that we were doing on some of the
6:41
ski, the ski work that we were doing repairing skis, and boards
6:44
and whatnot. And I had a cup of coffee was
6:47
like, wow, this is this is good. And so I kind of geeked out on
6:52
it. Pick the guys brain for a while
6:55
and probably annoyed in because like every new by was in.
6:58
Are just going on. What was this?
6:59
And how is this? What do you do with this?
7:01
Got all Goofy with it and you know but it really opened my
7:04
eyes to the fact that it was something better than what I had
7:07
grown up with Things kind of transition did a bunch of other
7:10
jobs in between. Basically I was a bartender for
7:13
a lot of years. Same job, different Vice, you
7:17
Create and Craft cocktails for people that are pretty
7:19
particular about what they want and they're willing to pay a
7:22
couple of dollars to get it the way they want, which helped, but
7:26
I'm a morning guy. Even before I went in the Army,
7:28
I was up at 4:00 4:30 in the morning, just the Wake, that's
7:33
my biological clock. So if I work the bar and I shut
7:36
the bar down at that night soon as the It came up, I was awake
7:40
and then you get a little nap right before it was my turn to
7:42
go back on shift and and just existed that way for a long time
7:46
the opportunity to can't to a by this little place came up.
7:50
It was called paper tiger coffee company before which was kind of
7:55
a funny little story how we kept the name similar to what it was.
8:00
We My wife and I were talking about it and I said, well, I'm
8:04
going to go over and just kind of chat with the guy and so I
8:07
showed up one day, I was on my motorcycle and it was a, it was
8:10
what early September cold morning?
8:13
A bit wet out. So I had my Leathers on and I'm
8:15
looking a little wet and rough and kind of not the normal
8:19
coffee shop person going in there.
8:21
But I started talking to him about, you know, interest in
8:24
wanting to purchase the place from him.
8:26
He had it up for sale. If everybody knew he was trying
8:28
to sell the place. But I there was a bunch of
8:31
chatter in the background from the people that were there.
8:33
Other going to turn some weird biker coffee shop or something
8:35
and let's go. I thought you don't know me.
8:38
I'm a pretty nice guy you know? And so we decided to stick with
8:41
paper tiger. I don't know if they knew what
8:44
Paper Tigers did for and for those that don't know Paper
8:48
Tigers a, it's an old political term for something that looks
8:51
big and scary until you really investigate and then it's just a
8:55
picture. It's just paper.
8:57
So it's not as scary as it would seem once.
9:01
You start to investigate the term we use for the old Russian
9:04
military. Back in the Soviet days when
9:08
they would March 1 Battalion around and around the Kremlin
9:11
over and over and over and make it look like it was massive and
9:14
a huge Force when it was really one battalion.
9:17
That's actually kind of interesting because when you
9:20
walked in there and your leathers and kind of looking
9:22
like the motorcycle guy, they were looking at you, is this big
9:24
scary guy but at the same time you're saying, hey, I'm actually
9:28
pretty nice guy. Just got a little rough exterior
9:30
this morning right matches with the name.
9:33
So when you were looking at it, it was just a coffee shop
9:35
though. Not a coffee roasters.
9:37
All right, it was a coffee roaster, but it was, it was
9:40
failing. They were doing $75 a day in
9:43
sales and a little bit on the side as a commercial pump.
9:47
But it was, I mean you can't you can't survive in a coffee shop
9:53
and a in a retail brick-and-mortar setting on $75
9:56
a day that's just impossible. They were they were hemorrhaging
9:59
money monthly and this is in just timeline-wise about when.
10:05
So this was 2011 2011. Yeah.
10:08
Okay, yeah. So 75.
10:09
Definitely in 2011. Yeah.
10:13
I think $75 a day might not have gotten very far in 1980.
10:17
Yeah they were they weren't even keeping the lights on and in the
10:20
rent paid at that point it was it was bad but it was a hobby
10:25
shop. They really didn't care so much
10:28
as far as making it survive and thrive.
10:31
They just wanted to have a good place to have coffee the way
10:33
they wanted. What made you think that you
10:36
wanted to take on this challenge?
10:38
You would obviously been working all these different jobs and had
10:41
been in Hospitality but what made you think you wanted to go
10:44
into ownership? Well my wife and I have been
10:46
discussing it for a year or so saying you we were really want
10:49
to get a place of our own and like I had mentioned before my
10:53
biological clock being a morning guy, this just fit better.
10:58
I already thought I knew enough about coffee to make it work.
11:02
I had my own business once before when I was in California.
11:04
Nothing in the hospitality scenario like this.
11:07
It was a pressure washing company.
11:09
So we did service calls but nothing.
11:12
Nothing person to person over and over and over again, all day
11:14
long like this. But I thought I knew enough and
11:19
obviously ignorantly ignorantly did not, but I'm a good nerd and
11:26
I grabbed every book I could read.
11:28
I watched every video I can find I talk to anybody could give me
11:31
five minutes of their time. And we also negotiated with it
11:34
was Zack, the previous owner that he stay an extra week for
11:38
some extra money to at least trained me to reproduce the
11:43
rose, he was already doing So, the espresso, the House Coffee,
11:47
the decaf, I could at least reproduce those and during that
11:50
week, I realized, I'm, I'm in trouble.
11:53
I got to learn everything now, and, you know, I like I said, I
11:58
did. I grabbed everything, read,
11:59
everything, watched everything, learned, everything.
12:01
I could from everybody that I could, Once you're in there then
12:06
and you're doing that first week and you realize you've got a lot
12:09
to learn first. I would say that there's a
12:10
little ignorance at the beginning of any entrepreneurial
12:13
project. Well, we always can be a good
12:16
thing too because it makes you make choices.
12:19
You might not make if you knew more.
12:20
Yes, that's what I've learned. So you go in there and you start
12:24
start roasting, did people respond right away and say okay
12:29
it's a new owner but we're going to keep coming here.
12:31
We're going to keep doing the thing or how did you kind of
12:33
start that process of transitioning?
12:34
During the business to you and who you are as a person.
12:38
So I'm a decent pipe guy, right? The first thing I did was grab a
12:42
couple are pots of hot coffee and some paper cups and just
12:44
walked around the neighborhood. All the local businesses and
12:46
said, hey, I'm the new owner and we got a really read Awakening.
12:51
At that moment, this was still early on in customer reviews
12:56
days online, right? I mean they've been going on,
12:59
but they were just starting to really become a thing.
13:04
We got a resounding responses from people saying we don't go
13:07
there. Because the staff was very
13:11
snobby about. We don't want you to add cream
13:13
or sugar to your coffee. We've already perfected this,
13:16
you know, and I was just like, well, hey, I'm the new owner and
13:19
that's not how it is anymore. If you want cream in your
13:21
coffee, you know, put it, I don't care.
13:23
I want you to have a good cup of coffee, the way you want to have
13:25
it and that just doing that double the sales within the
13:32
first two weeks. So we went from that horrible
13:36
little $75 a day to $150 a day. Just in the first two weeks by
13:39
me, actually just reaching out to local businesses and people
13:42
right around the shop. Being a much more personable
13:45
person. In regards to customer service,
13:49
Zack was a great engineer. He could work out all the
13:52
details on a coffee as he's roasting it, but if you've ever
13:55
dealt with a lot of Engineers, you know, sometimes you're not
13:57
always the best. People person that unfortunately
14:01
showed through with the reviews of he was getting online and so
14:04
I just went through at that point and started responding to
14:08
each of those bad reviews saying, hey, we're the new
14:11
ownership we've taken over. This is the new name of the
14:13
company. This is how we're doing things.
14:16
And that started to, Kind of turn things in our favor as
14:19
well. Getting people on board going,
14:20
well, maybe I'll give it another try and some people like this,
14:24
some people didn't same as anything else.
14:26
People come in and they agree with what you do or they don't
14:28
agree with what you do and all we know is we're going to do the
14:31
best possible job each and every time somebody walks in the door
14:33
because we appreciate the factor coming in the door, you know,
14:36
people vote with their dollars in their time.
14:40
Yes, they do in 2011. For anyone listening Vancouver,
14:44
Washington is just North of Portland.
14:47
Moreland has kind of a thriving coffee scene as well.
14:50
What what is the kind of the copy the coffee scene in
14:53
Vancouver at this time? And you dealing with kind of a
14:57
third wave customer? Or is it, you know, this is our
14:59
neighborhood coffee roaster, in the place we go.
15:01
Are we talking our 2011? Sorry, do that 2011?
15:05
So both Right? Third wave coffee was really
15:10
coming into its own at that time and so we had lots of people
15:13
coming in wanting, very detailed information on the coffee, that
15:16
they were getting. And like I said, being a good
15:18
nerd. I had dove in and learned
15:20
everything. I could not only about the
15:21
roasting of the coffee, but what coffees, I was roasting.
15:25
So when someone was asking me about a particular coffee and
15:27
where it came from and what altitude it was grown at, I was
15:30
just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
15:31
Here you go. So the third wave people really
15:35
liked it, right? And our regulars, started liking
15:39
it because we had a really well-balanced roasted house cup
15:42
of coffee in a really well-balanced espresso.
15:45
We tend to focus more on a more Southern Italian traditional
15:49
style, espresso roast well-balanced, some good cocoa,
15:53
some good, caramel's little bit of nut and then just a hint of
15:56
spice on the Finish. We're lucky enough to have a A
16:00
regular in the shop, who is a wine purveyor for Italian wines.
16:05
And so he's in Italy, typically, three to four times a year.
16:09
And he touches base at a few of the shops there that he knows
16:12
and comes back and has a little taste test because yep, you're
16:14
still on point, you've drifted a little farther to the high-end,
16:17
a little too bitter over here, you know, but he's been an
16:21
invaluable resource and keeping us true to form.
16:26
How are you sourcing coffees was that something you kind of
16:29
rolled over from when the previous ownership in the
16:32
beginning? Yeah yeah.
16:34
In the beginning we just took the data that had given us and
16:38
ran with that and some of it was beneficial and some of it wasn't
16:43
and over the years, we've managed to meet up with
16:45
different farmers at different events.
16:47
We've managed to have people actually show up.
16:50
I mean, I'm, I know a lot of Roasters have people from
16:53
different Farms, just show up and go.
16:55
Hey, I've got this, you want to try it out, sometimes it's good,
16:59
sometimes it's not sometimes it's really what we're looking
17:01
for and sometimes it's absolutely not what we're
17:03
looking for. But those that we find that
17:07
seemed to be solid people. And I don't mean that in a
17:12
disparaging way towards everybody because you can get a
17:15
bad vibe off anybody and have it be totally incorrect myself in
17:19
particular. Walk into the shop, is the biker
17:21
guy to buy it. And having people going right by
17:23
your coffee shop, So, I know we can all be wrong in those, those
17:28
situations, but as you start talking to people and you start
17:31
learning about the way they handle their business and the
17:34
way you handle your business, and when things kind of vibe,
17:37
then you work together and we've been lucky enough to have quite
17:42
a few of those scenarios come to fruition over the years where I
17:46
can call up any, one of the people that I work with and say,
17:48
hey Lar, I need, you know, a few bags of X Y and Z coffee.
17:52
You know, how fast can you get it to me.
17:54
And, and he Makes it happen because his family's growing and
17:57
way, way, too long ago, and they're doing their thing.
18:00
And he's the representative here Stateside.
18:02
So we just, we click, he comes in and rinse time on a roaster,
18:06
so he can roast his coffee and Sample.
18:07
It out to different people, to try to somewhere on that side,
18:09
too. It's a pretty interesting
18:12
scenario all the way around. As far as getting the coffee and
18:14
making it all work. I was just thinking about how
18:18
about first impressions and you going into the shop and, you
18:23
know, thinking at the time that You knew enough to know and then
18:26
having kind of a learning real quickly that maybe you didn't
18:30
the customers not really sure about you or not happy with the
18:32
previous kind of service levels. Now that you're 11 years Beyond,
18:38
you know, 2011 you've been doing this for 10 11 years.
18:41
You've been perfecting your your craft so to speak looking back.
18:46
How do you think that you have changed and how is the shop
18:49
changed over the past 10 years? In so many different ways.
18:54
I have changed the shop. We've managed to keep the
18:58
initial feel that we wanted. Right?
19:03
Little back story on that. Just to give you a perspective
19:05
on it. When I was a kid, I got to go
19:07
with my grandpa to his local coffee shop, just like twice a
19:10
year for about five or six years running.
19:15
And the little lady that ran that Shopper name is Deb.
19:18
I don't know if it was Debra or something different to everybody
19:20
just called her Deb. But she was the sweetest little
19:23
lady in the world. Never forgot my name and all
19:26
those years, even the very first time, I walked in.
19:27
Hi Kenny, how are you welcome? You want a cup of hot cocoa and
19:31
it was the days that you want leaded or unleaded and maybe a
19:33
slice of fresh pie with that and it was just always a well-known
19:39
of warm and welcoming environment.
19:42
It wasn't. Super sterile and I don't mean
19:47
that in a bad way. You know, you go into some shops
19:49
and everything is so pristine and so clean.
19:52
You're almost afraid to sit down and have a conversation with
19:55
people because they're definitely quartered off in
19:57
their own portion and there's a time and place for that.
20:01
But in this particular one it was very come on in you're
20:06
always welcome, sit down. Get comfy have a conversation
20:09
with everybody in the room. And my grandpa and his friends
20:12
would sit there and argue like cats and dogs all day long and
20:16
then they go next door at the barbershop and do the same thing
20:18
where they're each getting their hair cut playing checkers and
20:20
arguing about everything. But at the end of the day they
20:22
all shook hands gave each other a hug said okay we'll see you
20:25
Sunday at the potluck or whatever and it was just a warm
20:28
welcoming environment. So that is what we wanted to do
20:32
with paper tiger when we took it over and that's kind of what it
20:35
feels like you walk in nervous. Like I feel kind of like I'm
20:37
going to my friends house or my cousin's house or something, you
20:40
know. I just feel like I can sit down
20:41
start talking to people and you can't.
20:43
That's kind of the environment that we've managed to not, only
20:47
create. But keep through all the years,
20:50
pretty much anybody can walk in, and they may feel off for a
20:54
quick second because they're not used to it.
20:57
But within five minutes, they're having a conversation with the
20:59
people at the table, next to them, and they're doing their
21:01
thing, and they're having a cup of coffee and totally engrossed
21:04
in whatever the topic of conversation is.
21:07
For myself, there's been a multitude of changes.
21:12
Early on, I wanted to make whatever coffee be that coffee.
21:16
I wanted it to be. And throughout the years, I've
21:19
learned that some of those things I can drive and get the
21:22
flavors that I want. But when you're dealing with a
21:25
really high-end quality cup of coffee, you really want to find
21:29
where that coffee shines, the best, be it, a light roast, a
21:34
medium, it roast, a diet or dark roast whatever, And sometimes
21:38
that coffee has multiple places where it really shines.
21:42
I don't know how many other people do this kind of
21:45
technique, but if I find a coffee that's got three really
21:47
great keynote spaces on it. I roast it separately to those
21:52
three different places and I blend it together on itself.
21:55
So you get a really complex single origin that way and it's
21:59
served as well over the years. I have not heard that from
22:03
someone from another roaster doing the show and that is
22:06
really interesting that you're Seeing the same being roasting
22:09
it, three different ways and blending it together.
22:12
That's almost enough to make me come drive up to Vancouver
22:14
Washington in the near future and great.
22:16
I'll just send you a sump is a sample you know send me your
22:19
address afterwards and I'll get you a sample platter and you can
22:22
play with whatever you want. Very kind of you.
22:25
So as you're seeing kind of as a roaster you've grown in the way
22:30
your relationship with the coffee itself is changed.
22:34
Oh absolutely. Like I said early on, I was
22:36
trying to get something. Thing that had the right kind of
22:40
flavor tones in it when I'm talking to the different Brokers
22:44
and Growers and farmers and, you know, everybody along the chain.
22:48
And when somebody says, okay, this one's got caramel coconut.
22:52
I'm like, well, I need that. Okay, yeah, give me that.
22:54
And then I'm going to make it taste the way I want it to and,
22:58
you know, to some extent, you can do a lot of that, but you
23:03
can't do that with every single coffee.
23:05
You can't take certain ones. And make them taste really
23:09
strongly of cocoa and caramel if that's not the Flora and Fauna
23:13
in the area where it grows. And that's not any of the
23:15
natural inherent flavors that are within the coffee to start
23:18
with. I've lessened on that and
23:21
learned more to be a little more, organic myself.
23:26
One of the reasons I reached out to you and I was excited to talk
23:29
to you, is your work with the the school of the deaf and the
23:33
Blind. And specifically you have
23:36
students that come in and learn Learn to roast or learn to work
23:39
in the coffee or to make different styles of coffee.
23:44
How did that efforts start? And how has that impacted you as
23:48
an owner and by extension paper tiger as a company?
23:52
It's been an amazing journey. The one of the thing is just
23:55
really struck me because I actually grew up with, with
23:59
neighbors who were deaf and my best friend's parents were deaf.
24:02
And to think about to Extended, especially too blind to think
24:06
about learning how to do something as mechanical as
24:08
roasting or working with those machines.
24:11
Just seems so challenging to me and I'm just, I'm still trying
24:15
to figure it all out in my head. So I'm excited to hear a little
24:17
bit more about it. Yeah and for us, it paper tiger,
24:21
it actually started. With the School for the Blind.
24:24
They have a small Roastery and coffee shop there at the school.
24:28
And because it's the state school, many of those students
24:31
actually live on site throughout the school year.
24:34
They might go home for spring break, or on the occasional
24:37
weekend, but most of them lived there on on the school grounds,
24:40
during that time. So, they go to the little coffee
24:42
shop or they learn to work in the Roasterie and that kind of
24:46
blew my mind when they ask me about it.
24:48
And initially started with, hey, we've got this roaster up here.
24:51
We're having some problems. Can you come take a look at it
24:53
for us and see if you can diagnose what's going on or
24:56
troubleshoot it? So, all I'm do, what I can, but
24:59
it's not the same machine that I work with.
25:01
You know, the basics are all pretty much the same.
25:04
So I got up there and we kind of went, it went over it, she got
25:06
it all work and got everything dialed in for him.
25:09
And then they should, would you be interested in teaching, some
25:14
of the kids, how to roast, and then they can come back here and
25:17
teach the other kids, how to roast?
25:19
And then we can keep the cycle. Going ear to ear like that.
25:23
And I said, you want me to put these kids on my machine which
25:26
is much larger. They have a they have a little
25:29
one pound roaster that's tabletop and you have to
25:32
actually hand stir the cooling tray and everything.
25:35
It's a really, really basic unit.
25:38
Mine isn't huge either, you know, but they were wondering if
25:42
I would do that. It's like, well, if you're
25:45
willing to send the kids up here, I how can I say no to
25:48
trying to teach them? So I put a little notice up to
25:54
our local community, put some some flyers up on the door
25:58
saying, hey, this is what they're they're asking us to do,
26:02
we need to get a, an audio thermometer and we need to get a
26:06
braille label and we need to get a With these tools, we can't
26:08
really afford to do so. So, I always get a little
26:16
emotional Tony's. Thanks.
26:21
It took about five days. And we tripled what we needed.
26:29
the community just came in, dropped off a dollar here, if I
26:32
dollars are they made it happen and I said, okay, it's supposed
26:40
to be So I did, I Braille label the whole machine every button
26:46
on there, still to this day, has he's Braille labels all over it
26:50
and the kids come in when they're when they're learning,
26:53
we get a new student or two each year.
26:55
Obviously not the last two years with covid.
26:57
We haven't been able to, we've still done some training with
27:00
them but not the full training that we would normally do, but
27:03
the kids come in and I've talked them through the machine and
27:07
they'll reach over and they'll read each of the buttons once
27:09
maybe twice. But by the time they've gone
27:11
over that machine to time. Is there any know where
27:13
everything is? Because they're used to mapping
27:16
out their environment like that, right?
27:18
Just like you were I walk into a room, we go okay, there's the
27:21
table, there's the chair. They might have to map it out in
27:23
a different way but they map it out and quite rapidly and within
27:29
the first two days of working with the first student, I knew
27:35
that all the Hang-Ups that I had were my Hang-Ups not there
27:39
Hang-Ups. It was all these little mental
27:41
hurdles that I put up that were stopping me from from just
27:46
diving right in. And as soon as we do right in it
27:49
just took off the kids came in, we developed a special roast
27:53
that's only for the school. We call it liger.
27:56
Their mascot is the Lions, we're paper tiger, so it's a liar and
28:00
one of the deaf Are them. Sorry, one of the blind students
28:02
actually drew the little logo. So it's this little hand drawn,
28:06
Tiger logo, that or liger I should say.
28:10
Obviously not completely blind. That student could see a very
28:13
small diameter pin hole area out of one eye.
28:17
And so she sat there and Drew this version of what a liger
28:21
would look like. And that's the logo that goes on
28:23
that bag of coffee, every time we put it out or they put it
28:25
out, they do the same roast at the school all year long to in
28:29
that in those first kind of sessions where you're kind of
28:32
adapting and learning. How did you kind of develop a
28:36
teaching program where you teaching anyone else before
28:38
that? Or was it?
28:39
Of all on the Fly that first time.
28:42
Yeah. The first time was definitely on
28:44
the Fly, I didn't know what to expect, right?
28:51
Always a suit. Always a student.
28:52
Sometimes a teacher and never an expert, right?
28:56
Sure. I went in as the teacher but
28:59
really learning myself as we went and you really have to do
29:03
that any time. You're dealing with somebody who
29:07
is otherwise capable Right? Everybody's got a skill set.
29:12
It's about finding out what that skill set is and then honing
29:15
that as best as possible. And so there's a general rule of
29:21
things that we do when we're teaching, somebody knew how to
29:23
roast coffee or how to brew coffee, but it's really seeing
29:28
what each individual can and can't do in the same way.
29:31
And then figuring out how to make it totally accessible and
29:35
easy and repeatable. It's a learning experience.
29:39
Every single time we bring in a new student.
29:42
Sure, you started with students from the school of the Blind and
29:45
eventually students from deaf students as well.
29:49
Yeah, I read somewhere that your staff knows ASL.
29:52
American Sign Language. Yep.
29:55
If they don't, it's something that we pay for them to go and
29:59
take the classes and learn the school has a actually has a
30:03
community sign language class that they offer twice a year to
30:07
the General Public. Because they will teach new
30:11
parents. If somebody has a child that is
30:14
found to be deaf. They, you know, they want the
30:16
family to learn sign language too.
30:18
But there's always extra seats in there.
30:19
So we pay for our staff to go over and learn and they learn
30:23
throughout the day as they're just working with the rest of us
30:25
that are signing as well. You know, when you're, when
30:28
you're first learning ASL, the teachers don't want you to speak
30:32
while you're doing it. Which is.
30:36
Counter to the way you should do it after you've learned, right?
30:40
And I find myself even still to this day, you know, over a
30:43
decade into this, just doing some signs and kind of mouthing
30:47
the words but not actually speaking.
30:50
And I'm like, what are you doing dummy?
30:51
Just talk to people because many of them can actually hear a
30:54
little bit, or they have a cochlear implant or some hearing
30:59
aids where they are, picking up a decent amount of audio.
31:02
They can't pick up everything all the time.
31:04
Some can't pick up anything. It just depends on each
31:07
individual person but especially with ASL.
31:11
It's as much the movement of your lips and the expression on
31:15
your face and your overall body language.
31:17
When you're delivering the statement to somebody, every
31:20
little item there is picked up in the conversation.
31:24
For instance, we had a young lady named milka that worked for
31:27
us for a lot of years who's completely deaf.
31:30
And at the time, we didn't know it but we were one of only six
31:33
or seven coffee shops in the world.
31:35
I had a deaf priest on F. When she first started, she came
31:40
in the middle of the day and was learning how to do everything.
31:43
Then we shifted her over to mornings to start learning how
31:45
to open to work the opening shift.
31:47
And she would come to me every day going, why is that person
31:49
mad at me? Like, what do you mean?
31:53
What are you saying? They're not mad at you.
31:56
Like oh yeah, they're just mad. You're mad.
31:58
You're mad. I'm like no, they're just not
32:01
awake. They need some coffee.
32:05
Okay. I don't think so, but okay, and
32:09
it took her probably about a month of working, the opening
32:12
shift, to realize those people just weren't aware of their own
32:16
body language at the time or they just weren't awake enough
32:19
to even care for yourself. I won't call, you know, I need
32:22
coffee, I want coffee, just give me coffee.
32:25
So she had a really hard time in the beginning.
32:27
So now we preemptively tell all our deaf students go in some of
32:31
the people are just going to be mad and it's not you they just
32:35
want coffee before. They can actually like, start
32:39
talking with everybody else. Okay.
32:43
You know and all of them have that same kind of reaction 1.
32:46
What are they mad for? It's interesting to see that
32:50
transition to go from, okay. Those people are just not awake
32:53
20, why are they mad? Well you already answered my
32:56
next question which was a any of these students become employees.
33:00
But the program itself is that part of the goal of the program
33:04
is to teach this as a job skill. Yes we are.
33:07
Is it just as an opportunity to learn coffee.
33:10
So it's both some of the kids think they want to do coffee.
33:13
And then they come in, and they actually work it for a while.
33:16
And I just now, this isn't, this isn't for me.
33:18
I don't ever want to do this, you know, and some of them come
33:23
in really wanting to actually work and do coffee.
33:27
It's awesome to see it. Do we can't obviously higher
33:29
everybody that we train. We're still a pretty small
33:33
company. Overall, we hire those that we
33:36
can, and we hire, ER, and offer training to anybody who really,
33:41
really wants to do so through the schools and other programs
33:44
to we work with the Department of vocational rehab, and the
33:47
gate program, which is a local continuing education program in
33:51
the area. Also, with the recovery Cafe, a
33:55
Clark County people that are trying to get their lives
33:58
together and need some more work skills and will absolutely train
34:02
them to be able to make coffee. The, our area everywhere from
34:08
Portland on up to Seattle, is the highest per capita
34:13
consumption of coffee in the country, New York drinks more
34:17
per day. Based on sheer mass of people in
34:22
the small area but the Pacific Northwest drinks more coffee per
34:26
capita than anywhere else in the country.
34:28
And so it's a it's a thriving. It's a thriving business and
34:32
industry in our area. How's your area, specifically
34:36
Vancouver? Has there been a lot of growth
34:39
in the coffee industry? I mean, I'm wondering in 2011.
34:43
How many other Coffee Roasters were there?
34:45
And now, have you seen that been growing over the last 10 years?
34:48
So it's absolutely been growing. When we started, we were one of
34:52
five or six Roasters in the area.
34:54
I forget the exact total it was ourselves Compass.
34:59
Rude Awakenings brewed 360. Gorge copied over there was
35:05
about six different Roasters when we started up.
35:09
Now there's I believe 13 Roasters in the area, any
35:13
competition between you and Portland its competition.
35:16
But it's also we're also all colleagues, right?
35:20
We're all working in the same industry and Some people I get
35:25
along with some people are really don't always get along
35:27
with. But overall, if one of my
35:31
colleagues, need some help there shy on a bag of coffee or
35:33
something and I happen to have it, I'll take care of them,
35:36
they'll pay me back. And then on the off chance that
35:39
I need a bag of coffee or I need some time on whether Roasters
35:42
because apart broke, we've all kind of bounced off one another
35:46
and made it work. It was funny.
35:48
We did a commercial for the city of Vancouver The year before
35:53
covid kicked in, and every one of the three Coffee, Roasters,
35:57
ourselves included, all basically said the same thing,
36:01
not knowing anything about the others interviews.
36:06
It was kind of amazing that we all had.
36:08
The same kind of mindset in the way that not only that, we were
36:12
doing things but how we would help out any of the other Coffee
36:15
Roasters in the area. If we thought it would do any
36:16
good. I watched that video last night
36:20
actually and I'll share it on the news.
36:22
Letter for anyone listening so they can see it as well.
36:25
You mentioned at the very beginning when you went into,
36:28
even just before you even purchased it and you came in,
36:31
you ride, your motorcycle in, have you brought any of that
36:33
motorcycle culture into the shop?
36:35
And I ask because I saw that you did a bike night?
36:38
Yep. I was a motorcycle rider and I
36:41
have a hard time, imagining a bike night at my local coffee
36:44
shop. So I'm wondering how that, how
36:46
those two worlds have matched overly over the years?
36:49
So the bike nights are always, it's always an interesting.
36:52
In group of people that shows up being the Pacific Northwest and
36:56
as wet as we get during the winter, we don't always do it
36:58
during the winter. We're getting ready to start
37:00
back up here in a few weeks. We decided just Monday morning
37:04
that we would do it right after Easter but it's it's an
37:10
interesting dichotomy when that when that happens one group in
37:14
particular, the bikers for Christ coming a lot, right?
37:16
They have a Monday meeting there with whoever just shows up, they
37:20
just all sit around having a cup of coffee, too.
37:22
Whether it's not really a formal meeting or anything.
37:25
They just all come and have coffee that morning.
37:27
It might be three or four, guys, that might be two dozen you
37:29
never know what's going to happen and it's the same with
37:32
bike night. You know, we've been in there
37:33
and it's just been four or five of us sitting around the table.
37:35
Sipping on a cup of coffee and joking.
37:37
And there's been other times where there's not even room for
37:40
everybody to be in the building at once bikes lined up
37:43
throughout the whole parking lot.
37:44
We do rides with we're a good kickoff point for a morning
37:48
ride, start their get a cup of coffee.
37:50
Maybe a donut and then We got five or six stops throughout the
37:53
day. It's a good way to do that.
37:56
We're a decent Rally Point for that kind of scenario when I
37:58
want to hear. And what I think of back to the
38:01
events that I had done in poker runs was a big thing where I
38:05
can. Yep familiar.
38:06
But it's motorcycle whether the community is motorcycles or the
38:13
ASL Community or local softball team, your space is it's a
38:18
community of people and you're going to have people from all
38:21
walks of life. Of life that come through that
38:23
door now and you're kind of providing a space for one kind
38:26
of segment of that Community. As much of the community is
38:29
absolutely possible. One of the things that we, that
38:32
we decided early on my wife and I was that we're not just going
38:35
to be in the community, we're going to be a part of the
38:38
community. Right.
38:40
And you can definitely feel that when you go to different
38:44
businesses going around town. There are those that are in that
38:48
position because that's the most high traffic area where they're
38:51
going to get the most sales. And then you got the people that
38:53
are there because they are part of the community, we want to be
38:56
the ladder, we want to be part of the community across the
38:59
board. You know like with the with the
39:04
deaf Community by and large they are near the school.
39:08
With in Vancouver, there's a huge majority of the deaf
39:11
community that lives within blocks of our shop.
39:14
We're literally directly across the street from the school for
39:16
the deaf. So the kids didn't think much of
39:20
it at the time but they gave me a sign name.
39:22
It's the letter K, like you're shaving your head because some
39:25
of the ball guy they played with different ones.
39:27
You know, K is like you're riding a motorcycle and
39:29
different things but I think I thought that was pretty awesome
39:33
that they would give me a sign name that that's acceptance into
39:36
that community. And it wasn't just because we're
39:40
teaching how to do stuff. It's because we are literally
39:42
trying to learn and learn and learn more and more ASL all the
39:46
time. So we could talk with them and
39:47
we could actually have a full blown conversation instead of
39:51
what can I make you this morning?
39:53
Which is great. But if all you can say is coffee
39:56
or milk or little bit of sugar. Yeah, you say hey how are you
40:01
today? You know, what are you doing
40:04
later? And start talking to people and
40:06
having a full blown conversation.
40:09
That's really impactful for somebody who has a any kind of
40:13
language barrier can relate to that a little bit.
40:16
When I move to California and took over restaurants, I didn't
40:20
speak Spanish, right? And Spanish, especially in
40:24
communicating with people in Spanish, both customers and
40:26
employees was a challenge and I had to made a worksheet and, you
40:30
know, we start posting worksheets and it became part of
40:32
our training because I realized very quickly.
40:35
If if part of your staff can't communicate with the other part
40:38
of the staff, It is not going to work.
40:40
Yeah. Especially in a kitchen because
40:42
you're constantly moving around. You got to be able to say, I'm
40:44
coming on your left. I'm stepping behind you.
40:46
You know, order for up. Whatever the scenario is people
40:49
around, you have to know what's being said.
40:52
Yep, and my Spanish is still not, not very good, but I, you
40:55
know, it became something that made made me and my staff closer
40:59
together because we were learning.
41:01
I was learning in my team was learning together.
41:04
They were learning more English. I was humming were Spanish and
41:07
we are trying to meet somewhere in the middle.
41:09
You work in Hospitality, anyone who's listening is worked,
41:11
Hospitality. There's already a whole
41:14
different language that you use. I think in that world with your
41:17
job and you know, you're kind of throwing out some kitchen terms
41:22
there, but there's an entirely different sort of Engagement
41:26
than between two people who works at adjoining desks, you
41:29
know. Yeah, you have to work together
41:32
and tell you get into that flow, where you understand, each,
41:35
other's physical space, as well as you know, the Intellectual
41:39
space. It can be a challenge.
41:41
Yeah, we jokingly call it the espresso dance because we're all
41:45
moving around the same machine and we're all doing this little
41:47
thing and people are just like, wow, you guys been working
41:49
together for a while? No, actually, she just started
41:52
like a month ago but she's learning the dance.
41:54
It helps when everybody's on the same page.
41:57
Absolutely. And if you're at home, listening
42:00
to this and you're wondering what it's like, take a partner
42:03
or friend and go into the bathroom and shut the door.
42:05
And have you both try to wash your hands at the same time?
42:08
That's kind of what we're Talking about.
42:09
Yeah, I feel like I could talk to you quite a bit more about
42:12
especially this program that you're doing and obviously
42:14
coffee and and being where I am and in Southern, California.
42:19
I'm always excited to hear about stuff in the Pacific Northwest
42:23
leaders and coffee generally. But I want to, I want to give
42:26
you a chance. Is there anything that we didn't
42:28
talk about today, that you think would be that people would be
42:31
interested in a paper tiger or about you or the programming
42:34
that you're doing. You know, I don't that's the,
42:39
that's the worst part. When I'm talking about me, I'm a
42:41
terrible hype, man. You start talking about coffee.
42:45
I'm all about it. Talk to me about the kids that
42:47
I'm working with. I'm all about, helping those
42:48
guys. But for me, I'm just me.
42:51
I'm, I might show up on the motorcycle carrying 200 pounds
42:54
of coffee up to Seattle, because it's needed that day.
42:56
And, you know, it was nice out, so it gives me an excuse to ride
42:59
and write it off. But how about this?
43:03
What what motorcycle are you right?
43:05
Eating, and when you're on that trip, if you stopped to get a
43:07
coffee somewhere else, what do you order for you?
43:10
All right, well, I read a 2005, Yamaha V-Star 1100, that's been
43:16
fairly well, customized out nothing bad about the Harley
43:20
guys in the Harley riding and all that, but it's a little less
43:22
maintenance. And when I'm especially for
43:25
business, I want to make sure that if I've got to go to
43:28
Seattle with 200 pounds of coffee, and I can strap it to
43:30
the back of the bike, I'm going to make it there, but when I go
43:33
to other coffee shops, first thing, I always orders a shot of
43:37
espresso If that's tasty, then I order a cappuccino because
43:43
between those two, I can pretty much tell what I'm going to get
43:46
from that coffee shop. And and if I like it, I tell all
43:50
my riding buddies. That's where you go.
43:52
If you're on the road and you're, you're, you know,
43:54
heading up Interstate 5. This is the spot right here at
43:57
this particular location, or this is not the spot.
44:00
Don't go there, this is terrible.
44:03
I've only ever said that about two coffee shops and I don't
44:05
want to throw them under the bus because it's not my place to
44:08
judge. Who likes their coffee and who
44:10
doesn't, but I typically know what the people I'm around or
44:14
drinking and what they like, and there's only two that I just
44:16
don't recommend to people. I don't tell people to
44:19
necessarily stay away, but I do not recommend those.
44:22
Well, it all depends on that Community as well.
44:24
I mean, if that's not your community, some family
44:27
relatives, own a brewery in Germany and I just assumed they
44:31
made the best beer in the world Germans and is, you know, small
44:35
breweries been around 250 years and then I got a chance to go.
44:39
There and try the beer there. And it was some of the I could
44:43
not the group here with, I had to apologize to you because the
44:45
beer was really not enjoyable, but the people in that Community
44:50
have been drinking just that beer for 250 years and that's
44:53
what they like and so who am I to say that?
44:54
It's not, it's the local beer. It's what everybody knows.
44:58
You know, I grew up in Southern California, down in Yuma.
45:03
Arizona, for the most part, and I grew up with some really good,
45:07
Mexican food, so I'm spoiled I come up here and I have Mexican
45:11
food and I'm like thank you and I try to be as nice as I can
45:15
about it but it's so not not authentic in so many cases.
45:22
There's a couple of really good Mexican restaurants up here and
45:25
I tell everybody where to go for that.
45:27
If you want the good stuff, you go here and you go here.
45:30
Everywhere else is whitewashed. Well, I'm going to have to get
45:33
those names for me off the air. Kenny, I really appreciate you
45:37
spending some time with me today.
45:39
And tell me a little bit more about what you guys are doing.
45:43
And I just really appreciate it and I look forward to getting a
45:45
chance to stop in a paper tiger sometime in the future.
45:48
Absolutely. If you're ever near make sure
45:50
you do stop and we'll take good care of you to recap today's
46:01
interview. A paper tiger is one that is
46:04
outwardly, powerful or dangerous, but inwardly weak and
46:08
ineffectual. Or it is something that looks
46:10
big and scary but ends up being just paper, not scary at all.
46:15
That's just a really cool concept and something I've
46:17
started looking for in my own life.
46:20
What am I afraid of? Is it really that scary if I sit
46:23
down with a cup of coffee and examine?
46:26
It will that fear be justified? Kenny was once the paper tiger
46:30
himself when he was recalling the reaction to him being
46:33
interested in buying the cafe over a decade ago.
46:36
His appearance as a big motorcycle guy scared off some
46:39
of the people in the shop but his response was quote.
46:42
I'm a pretty nice guy. His story is a good Under that
46:45
sometimes it is best to learn. As you go, ignorance can be
46:49
Bliss at the beginning of an entrepreneurial effort, if we
46:52
really knew all of the pitfalls, we'd probably never make the
46:55
leap. But after you've left like
46:58
candy, did you have to sink or swim successful?
47:01
Entrepreneurs can be incredibly resourceful when their back is
47:04
against the wall paper tiger, as a company, is unique in their
47:08
efforts in other ability communities, and Kenny's theory
47:11
on teaching. Two individuals is how I wish
47:13
all schools were able to educate eight, Iran, that idea by my
47:17
wife who works in the education field.
47:19
And before I even finish telling the story, she was nodding along
47:23
and confirming that it was her wish to.
47:25
I Really encourage any established or burgeoning
47:27
entrepreneurs to look for opportunities to support their
47:30
communities and not be afraid to take on something.
47:33
That may be scary. It may just be a paper tiger and
47:36
as Kenny, learned the Hang-Ups may only be yours.
47:40
If you want to learn more about paper tiger, Coffee, Roasters,
47:42
or by some of their coffee, check out their website paper,
47:46
tiger coffee.com or follow their Instagram at paper tiger Coffee
47:50
Roasters, Links of, which will be in the show notes and in the
47:53
newsletter on roast westcoast.com.
47:57
So, let's get to some season 5 changes first and most obvious
48:01
more shows smaller breaks. Plus a lot of the focus of the
48:05
show has been on Southern California because that's where
48:08
I'm based, but I'm expanding Horizons of the show this
48:11
season. I'll still have guests from
48:13
SoCal because there's a lot of great coffee going on here, but
48:16
I'll also be chatting with coffee professionals from
48:18
Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and even Canada.
48:21
I'll be connecting with Roasters who specialize in decaf, coffee
48:24
artists, who paint, using coffee grounds and National Champion
48:29
Coffee Roasters. Like most your coffees, Nick
48:31
Berardi, who's going to be a guest later this season.
48:34
Of course, our favorite coffee smarter experts will be back,
48:37
including Chris O'Brien of coffee.
48:39
While roasting series simran Khalsa of lofty, coffee and
48:43
Jared, Hales of Hosea coffee Source, they're going to be
48:46
joined the season by Ryan Sullivan.
48:49
He's the roasting director of that award-winning, most her
48:51
Coffee Company. There are also going to be some
48:54
changes happening online. The newsletter is becoming a bit
48:57
more comprehensive with new content including the bean
49:01
Journal, which will detail what and where I'm drinking coffee.
49:04
I'll also be traveling to a dozen states this summer in
49:07
search of great coffee and creating some Alized sections
49:10
for coffee, smarter education, interviews, coffee jobs, and
49:14
guest columns from other fans of craft coffee.
49:18
I also have a new coffee column coming in the coast newspaper,
49:21
which I'll link to in the newsletter every week.
49:24
I know it's a lot of new stuff, but I'm excited to share so much
49:27
more of this coffee Journey with you.
49:29
And I hope you enjoy listening. You can always reach out to me
49:32
at roast West, Coast on Instagram.
49:34
With ideas, for coffee smarter, episodes or recommendations of
49:37
people that we should interview for the show.
49:40
I want to thank everyone for listening to this episode.
49:43
I always get so nervous to launch a new season.
49:45
Luckily I have a lot of support, there's going to be some new
49:48
name shouted out and linked in our future roast industry,
49:51
partner list. But the original Legacy partners
49:54
are a big reason why I've gotten this far.
49:57
So a very sincere. Thank you to Cafe lechera.
50:00
Ignite Coffee Company, mostra Coffee Company, leap coffee,
50:03
Maria coffee steady-state, coffee, roasting coffee cycle,
50:07
roasting Camp, Coffee Company, k.
50:09
Coffee importers, first light whiskey and zoom bar coffee and
50:13
tea, please consider joining them in supporting the creation
50:16
of this content. By subscribing to the paid
50:19
version of the newsletter, you can get 50% off a monthly
50:22
subscription until May 5th. That's 50% until 55, I should
50:27
probably also shout out my neighbor who bought a motorcycle
50:30
and you may occasionally hear them in the background of this
50:33
show. I hope this episode is found you
50:35
happy healthy and with at least enough sanity and coffee to make
50:39
it through the Today, please always tip your Baristas and be
50:43
sure to drink the coffee. I like beer, hey, everyone.
51:10
If you like the roast West Coast coffee podcast, you might also
51:14
appreciate the, I like beer the podcast.
51:17
Listening to these guys is like being a fly on the wall of the
51:19
pub with a few of your favorite mates.
51:21
Having a pint these professional beer appreciators, have plenty
51:24
of stories to share on everything from the mating
51:27
habits of penguins to there behind the scenes Brewery
51:30
experiences check out the, I like beer the podcast where
51:34
ever, you are listening to this show about coffee or head.
51:37
To, I like beer, the Cast.com. Cast.com.