Latest / The Growth Project / Episode 403: The Power of Being Present

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Episode 403: The Power of Being Present · The Growth Project

• 0:00
  You know, if I can train my brain to be curious about what that person is really saying and what what what I can learn from that person, I think I know when I'm at my best, I believe we are all at our best when we're every interaction like, what can I learn from this person?
• 0:16
  Welcome to the Growth Project, a podcast brought to you by AMP PLoS, powered by Elliot Davis in the studio. Fresh bag. The psychology from the number one college football team in the country, doctor Drew Brennan. More of that, please. Oh. No, it just it just, you know, it doesn't matter now, but, that was a big weekend in Tuscaloosa.
• 0:35
  It was a big weekend. Grateful for that. That's, Yeah. You beat those guys before, and you know that it's hard to beat those guys. So when you do, you celebrate. Yeah. We've never had to do it in Tuscaloosa. But it's it's fun to kind of see the principles we believe in and teach come to life. And I know there's no greater feeling than to be able to observe a witness.
• 0:53
  The people that you work with put the things into practice. And that's our goal for the podcast, is for you to take these ideas that we present and figure out to implement them in your life, to help you be better for the people that matter most, for the things that matter most, and pursue better for the things that you really want to achieve in life.
• 1:10
  And so today's conversation, drew, we were talking about a podcast topic in. I recorded one with Emerson, our youngest daughter, who we dropped off at Clemson a couple of years ago, and I said, hey, what what was the challenge of being, you know, what were some feedback you would give me or whatever the framework was for the question?
• 1:27
  And she said, well, I think you were distracted some the last couple of years. I don't think you were really present at times. And as hard as that is to hear, there's some truth in that, that I kind of fell into a habit of, I would come home. She had kind of already done her thing. She was with her mom.
• 1:44
  And I would kind of kind of get into my rhythm of checking emails or doing some work or get on my pad, or hanging out with the dog and not really giving her maybe my full attention. Not being fully present mentally and physically and emotionally, with her in that moment. And so I thought, well, maybe you can help me, but talk about the power of being president.
• 2:08
  So that's that's the topic for today, the power being present, the course of not being present. And what can we do in busy lives, demanding jobs, a lot of distraction. What are some things we can do to to be more present? Yeah. I mean, certainly appreciate you raising this topic. And I think that if, you know, we don't, we tend not to make real too many kind of, I guess you'd say, direct statements on the growth project, where you just kind of overview and whatever we're talking about that day.
• 2:38
  But I would say for our listeners, if you aren't trying to figure this out, you should be. Yeah. Because, very few people these days, I think are really doing a great job practicing what it means to truly be present, as opposed to being distracted by a million possibilities. Right. There's no shortage of things that you can give your attention to.
• 3:04
  Instead of the conversation that's in front of you, the person's in front of you, etc.. Yeah. And I think it's easy to kind of blame technology that that it these all these distracting things that are really supposed to connect us create further separation between us. But we're not only talking about the physical distraction of what are you looking to what are you paying attention to?
• 3:25
  We're talking about mentally what's going on in my mind? What are the stressors I've experienced through the day that I haven't dealt with, that I haven't disengaged from that are in the back of my mind that that doesn't allow me to really listen to the conversation or follow along, or really let that person know that I value them more than anything else in the world.
• 3:41
  Yeah, but but what I'm thinking in my mind is that quote by Ralph Waldo Emerson when a man's lips say one thing in his eyes, another a clever man pays attention to the latter. And so the power of being fully present that I'm hearing what you're saying, I'm feeling what you're feeling. And and I'm taking that to heart that you really matter.
• 4:03
  That's all the what we're talking about. The power of being present. Yeah. And I think it's important to say to even at the outset that, it's really easy to end up in this place and yet have really good intentions. Like, I think there's plenty of people who don't even realize that they are, lacking some of this lacking praise.
• 4:24
  They don't they don't want to be that way necessarily. And they, yet they are. Right. And how do you get there? Very easily, through just habits that kind of quickly form what we always say. Sometimes if we choose our habits, sometimes we don't realize that we've just I absolutely were just there and they unfortunately create challenges for us.
• 4:44
  So okay, so as we get into this, you know, obviously, you know, our topic, our main focus here is on this idea of, of living with presence more consistently. What are we really talking about? Like, what does that mean? I think we need to start there.
• 5:02
  Yeah. So to me, I think even just the importance of it back to what it really means, is life happens in the present moment.
• 5:10
  Performance happens in the present moment. And so, you know, I didn't look at the definition before we started, but, if I had to think about being fully present, then you think about cognitively, it has my full focused attention. My thoughts are aligned with what is going on in the moment. I think physically, what's my body language saying?
• 5:30
  Are my eyes attuned? Am I, am I leaning in? Am I touching the shoulder? If it's that kind of relationship, if I put away all things out and then emotionally being present is a little bit of, the empathy I'm feeling a little bit what you're feeling, and I'll have to take it to heart. Don't agree with it, but you are the most important person in the world right now or the task that you're focused on.
• 5:52
  You know, what are we talk to our athletes so much about? Can you give each play a life of its own for six seconds at a time? That's a little bit what we're talking about. Yeah, yeah. So there's like it's interesting because on the one hand these are simple concepts, but it isn't easy at all. No. And I think it's important to recognize that, us having like that framework you just outlined there, I think it's a very effective framework to understand what are what does this really include?
• 6:23
  What are we talking about? So even as you start with the physical side of it, which I think is an important component of like what does it mean to be physically present? It's I'm sending signals to you that I care. Yeah, right. Like just as you said, through eye contact, body language, open posture, that kind of stuff. It's amazing the signals you can send.
• 6:44
  It's. Yeah, this doesn't really matter to me. I don't really want to be here. Yeah. What's a what you do? What you do is so loud I can hear what you're saying. And so I'm just thinking in my mind of what does that maybe look like? The last couple of years, when I was really when my children were young, I did a pretty good job of disengaging and walking in the door, being fully present.
• 7:01
  But now it's easy to walk in the door and I'm on the phone or
• 7:04
  Caroline are talking to, maybe pull out the phone or pull out the iPad or kind of be writing something down or thinking about something else. And so I think physically means not only that, that I'm here, but are you putting away the distractions? How have you and engineered your environment.
• 7:20
  So there's you've removed any obstacles, you know, we'll see you. I, I'm thinking of our classic training in psychology. You know, the whole time about how do you build rapport, you know, come from behind your desk, take the time off, sit in a sit in a couch or a chair. That's close. I mean, just you know, you know, I like to take notes.
• 7:42
  But even that was seen sometimes as a distraction when they were teaching it to us. It's funny you said that. I literally just had that experience last week where I was in a meet. I was like in a room in a in a conference room, and somebody walked in that I was meeting with, and they went sat on the other side of the table and I was like, no, no, no, no, like comes over here so we can like both kind of pull our chairs out and there's nothing in between.
• 8:03
  The two of my professor would be so proud of me. They would be proud of you. Yeah. But I think all these things matter. And, you know, it's the, the cumulative effect of all these things. Add up, and they really can send a message that isn't the one we want to send. Yeah. Right. To the importance of the conversation or to the person.
• 8:24
  And we don't always think about these things. Yeah. So physically is one that I'm gonna arrange my body, arrange my space in a way that that this really matters. You really matter card to. Let's talk about cognitive presence. When we think about being present mentally being present, what does that look like?
• 8:41
  There are several ways we can do that. One of the more common, I think, frustrating ones is when you can just kind of tell that while one person is talking, the other person is sitting over there just loading up their response. Right? And like, you're not you're not completely taking in and listening to what that person is saying because you're just you get near your load in your tendons, right?
• 9:09
  Like you're getting it ready to either fire back a response or a question or a challenge, whatever it might be. You know? Yeah, I think that's really tough because, there is some bias here on me because I get inspired by ideas. I love good conversation, I get stimulated with thought. And so when I'm sometimes engaged in a conversation, I'm like that anticipating where the conversation is going, kind of connecting the dots.
• 9:33
  But if I'm not careful, that excitement, enthusiasm can minimize. I'm not hearing what they're having to say. Yeah, or I'm jumping to conclusions about solving the problem for them. And so I think being fully mindful kind of the president is it's not about you or your thoughts. It's like, hey, what are they thinking? What's going on with them?
• 9:54
  Right. And I think if we're not careful, you put these two pieces together of if I'm if physically signals and cognitively I'm doing this deal where I'm just kind of firing up, getting ready, you run the risk of is the person begins to pick up on that, they're going to just stop talking, or they're going to end the conversation earlier than they would otherwise.
• 10:14
  And you just you're you're altering the direction of where this is headed in some bad ways. Yeah. Yeah. So so be mindful of where your thoughts turning to wonder, are you getting ahead of the conversation, or are you so focused on what you want to say that you aren't listening to what they have to say? Yeah. Or the other thing you can do is just be thinking about something completely different.
• 10:36
  Yeah, right. That's not good either. You're in this conversation and the person is talking. It could be something really important to them. And you're over here going over the meeting you had earlier today, or the meeting you have coming up next, or the email you got from the person that bothered you. You're just not there. Yeah. So what?
• 10:55
  No, no, no, I'm thinking of several conversations over the weekend that were just like that, that your mind tends to wondering your you're maybe in a distracted by. So are we given any clues and suggestions on how to fix the cognitive presence? I mean, what what's a good suggestion to stop that thought process to to be mindful and intentional of how you show up in that conversation?
• 11:18
  I think a real easy thing would be to just turn the tables on that a little bit and think about, well, what if someone was doing that to you, you know, how would that affect you? How much would it bother you? How little would you appreciate that? Like you'd be pretty unhappy. Yeah. And I think if you think about that fact alone, it could help a bunch for you to show up and be more cognitively present of what's going on.
• 11:41
  Yeah. I think we talked so much there about being curious.
• 11:44
  You know, if I can train my brain to be curious about what that person is really saying and what what what I can learn from that person, I think I know when I'm at my best, I believe we are all at our best when we're every interaction like, what can I learn from this person?
• 11:58
  You know how rewarding it is in our life to to work with people who are just naturally curious? Yeah. Versus ones who think they have all the answers. And so we got you got physical presence got kind of presence. The last piece here we want to talk about is just emotionally present. I've mentioned that a little bit.
• 12:14
  But when you hear that language of being emotionally present what sticks out to you. They're tough one. Right? I think this can be a real tough one is like are you are you joining the interaction in a way where you're making yourself emotionally available to feel what, what what is this person trying to say to me?
• 12:42
  In an emotional sense. Right. Yeah. What am I picking up on? What? How am I reading this person? How am I reading the situation? Am I emotionally trying to kind of like, meet them in this moment in a way that makes them feel cared about, supported, hurt, etc.? I don't think there's a real clear playbook for this. I know very much.
• 13:00
  Just like, are you are you in an honest way, trying to not just repeat that word to kind of honor this person with your emotional focus and capacity? Yeah, I think that's really good. And I think, you know, we've talked about empathy a lot. I've always thought and heard the definition kind of see it with their, hear it with their ears and feel it with their heart to me.
• 13:21
  Can I feel what they're feeling this, you know, you go back to psychology in grad school and, you're going to laugh at this, or like, you should never cry in a session, right? You should. You know, that's not. And I'm a crier. And so sometimes the emotional presence and the emotional pain sitting in someone's pain can be the greatest gift you can give them.
• 13:39
  Does not mean you need to cry, does not mean you need to feel it at the depth they feel it. But just validating those person's emotions to me is a part of being emotionally present. And I'm not judging you for the way you feel. I'm not judging for what you're experiencing. Then I'm very interested and sympathetic and empathetic to what you're experiencing in this moment, and I can get on that level cognitively, but also can get to that level physically and emotionally.
• 14:04
  It really required me to see how this all kind of comes together. I think if you want to be able to be emotionally available to a person, you really can't afford to be doing the wrong things. These other domains as well. Yes. Body language. Yes. I'm sending a signal like this isn't that important. And if in my mind I'm focused on this thing I've got to get to later, there's no way I'm going to be emotionally present with this person.
• 14:31
  This is where they all kind of come together. Yeah. So something for us all to think about is they're all coming together and the physical and the cognitive, the emotional. Just for our listeners, the falls for just a moment, like, when's the last time somebody is giving you that kind of undivided attention. Yeah. Great question. You know, one of the power of those three.
• 14:48
  And what did that really feel like in what we know to be true, how rare that is in today's world? Yeah. That's right. Extremely rare. Yeah. And so this would be in if some of you were like me, you've created habits that maybe a lot of times you aren't. Maybe you're one of the three or you're two of the three, but maybe you aren't three of three.
• 15:08
  And so this would be a good chance for you to really think about how can I change the environment? How can I break those habits? What are some things I can do to be cognitively and emotionally and physically present with the people that I love, not to mention the work that I'm doing? Yeah. Now, I think it's important to, as we kind of get into the next part of this conversation, one of the reasons we're talking about this topic is it's not going very well, you know, in the world, right?
• 15:34
  Like we know that like very few people are doing this. Well, what are some of the factors? What are some of the things that are getting in the way of us being better at this? Well, I think, you know, I think busyness would be at the top of the list. It's so easy. You know, we we love that John Wooden quote.
• 15:51
  You get so busy making a living, you forget about making a life that you just get busy. And I know for me, the accelerated pace which how I think and how I work and how I operate and what I commit to, you know, there's so many things on the plate, there's so many phone calls. I don't get to or emails.
• 16:08
  There's always something to do. And so it feels like you're either playing catch up or you're focusing on what's ahead and not training ourselves to just focus in the moment of the present, in the moment. Yeah, I agree with that. And I think what I would add to that would be, we so rarely just do one thing.
• 16:25
  Yeah. You know, we think about it, very few people do one thing at a time. We were just we were watching something on TV or not. I remember and it's on the TV and then like it goes to a commercial and the second it goes to a commercial, one of two things is going to happen every time. Either one, our kids are going to switch it to another channel, something different or two didn't pick up their phones.
• 16:53
  Yeah. And it's like they're net or they're they're going to have their phones up while watching the thing we're watching. And I'm like, man, can we just do one thing? Yeah. They just and when it comes to a commercial, we'll just like talk about it or something like, yeah, something crazy like that. Like we'll just have a conversation for a few moments here.
• 17:12
  It's just we just never do know. It's funny you mentioned that example Caroline and my wife in the anti natural like, okay, what would this connection look like differently for president. So one of the things we did is hey we were watching TV show. There's no there's no phone, there's no I-pad, there's no nothing. And and so just so we can even if we're not talk.
• 17:31
  Oh sorry. Sorry. Even if we're not talking, we're trying to do one thing and be focused on that. And so I think one busyness and pace is one that, that sticks out. How about you in addition, not doing just one thing. There's so many things to do. Yeah, I think it's it's probably I would say similar to the pacing, but in a, in a slightly different way of, attempting to put X number of things in a time slot.
• 18:03
  That's completely unrealistic. You. Right. So just I guess another word overcommitted. Okay. I'm going to do this this and this in this on this afternoon. And it's like no you're not. Yeah. Like there's there's no way you're going to do that. And so because we overextend ourselves saying we're going to do these things in an unrealistic period of time, what does that mean?
• 18:24
  It means we get into conversations and we feel kind of frenzied and we're not totally there, and we're kind of in this given space, and yet we feel like we need to be in a different one. Yes. We just do all this stuff to ourself now. Like, let's be realistic. We get it. Are there times where you just have a bunch of things going on?
• 18:41
  And so you, you are kind of overcommitted. Overextended? Sure. But I think the reality is many of many of us, we're doing that most of the time. Yeah. And that's a mistake. And so we'll just go back to we talk about stress. You know, this the the neuro biological effects of stress. What I like to say it makes you selfish because you're just focused on you and a separate you from others.
• 19:05
  And so when you add that you're under stress all the time, it's hard to pay attention to others. And if you're mindful of the impact of stress in your life, you can not be mindful, violence interfering and impacting your ability to be present with the people that matter most to you. Yeah, and that's a really good point, because I think with the the human nature tendency would be in my in my observation, in my experience, is we commit ourselves to all these things and then we feel that internal stress you're talking about and then it very much becomes about us.
• 19:35
  Yes. You know, oh, hold on a second. What about the ways in which the decisions we made are then having a negative effect on other people? We are so slow to acknowledge that part and even even go back to a conversation in that moment where you do have so much going on, can you just say, hey, I'm sorry, I got a lot going on.
• 19:56
  Can you give me some grace here? I really need to focus on this, and we don't do a good job by asking for help. We don't do a good job of explaining where we are. So there's unmet and unspoken expectations. Just add pressure and frustration in our relationships, without a doubt. And so that kind of even gets us into like, what are the costs of all this?
• 20:16
  Right? So it's it's clear not just from, you know, our perspective, but it's clear in, social science research, it's clear and, and we go walk down the street and ask people these questions. They would agree with us, like, what are the costs associated with lacking presence in so many of our interactions? Yeah. And I think what hit me is we talk so much about our work truths to help people minimize regret in life.
• 20:40
  And so, you know, we're dropping it off in two days or a week later. And she's like, well, you weren't present, that you weren't distracted. And so you regret, like, what did I miss out on? You know, what part of our life did I really need to be present for that I wasn't there for. And so part of what are you missing out on is just the richness of a conversation, the things that really matter.
• 21:02
  I think about Bronny, where that hospice nurse who talked about the top 5 or 6 regrets of a dying she put a book out in an Ashley speaker. And, a couple of those are I wish I would have myself be happier. I wish I wouldn't have worked so much, but part of that is I wish I would have stayed connected with friends and people that matter to me.
• 21:20
  And I think that's the the realization is I'm missing out on really the essence of life. What was that great story I've heard you tell? Certainly without names or anything, but of the parent who sat down to write his son or daughter like a letter before going, oh yeah, and realized that it was like, it's too late.
• 21:43
  a mentor was a friend of mine, was, was talking about, you know, he had a busy life.
• 21:50
  He was actually a coach. And his oldest son was getting ready to go to college, and he had been so busy prepping the, you know, the team and spring ball in the summer that it's like I got to have this big conversation. And so he he wrote out all the things he wanted to tell his son before we dropped him off.
• 22:06
  And and at the end of it, it hit him really hard and know, like, it's too late. It's too late. Like of, like it's too late to teach him what I want to teach him. And I think that hit me so much that that we know. What do you like to say? It's more caught and taught him.
• 22:23
  Yeah. Yeah, that's. I mean, you think about this idea of, like, present proof. That's that's, I think convicting of an example really every year. And you keep going further with that. What what's in my mind right now is a story. The Cat in the cradle. Like, what have you actually created? Like, you were so busy, your son just want to spend time with you and you were so busy you could make time and like, hey, when I get it, like, we'll have time then.
• 22:47
  And then you just recreated that same pattern in your children. And so that's the part that scares you. What scares me is like what habits we create in our children, of the quality of relationships in our home, the quality of relationships that people matter.
• 23:00
  if you want to be good at this, you got it.
• 23:04
  Like you got to get reps, right? Like you can't just decide that, oh, I'm going to try to do this with my son or my daughter or like it's not really about that. I think I think what we're really saying here is it's a, it's a much more significant paradigm shift where like, this is how you're trying to just live and operate you.
• 23:23
  Yeah. It's not it should. My point, I think, is you should not just be like relationship driven like like for this person. Yes. Yeah. Oh yes. This is just how you want to live. Yeah. And I think to me so so we go by what's the course one that's going to be significant regret to the the trust the goodwill, the appreciation.
• 23:44
  The will is for that person to trust you. I mean, the, the if they think you're not paying attention, how vulnerable are they going to be with you? Yeah. How open and honest they're going to be with you about what's really going on in their life. And so you're missing out on what's really important in a person's life.
• 24:00
  And our research and our work really supports this. The the best organizations in the world today. What do they do? And they care about people and they care about their performance. Well, if my presence I'm not physically present or emotionally present or kindly president someone's life, it's hard to really help them feel like I care about them and I care about their work.
• 24:22
  Without a doubt. Let me rattle off a couple of these other calls I think are really good. So you touched on this one already about, I think if we if we're showing up in these ways, we don't want to, people are going to feel less valued. Yes. They should. I think the other common thing that can happen here is we we miss the message that's inside of the message.
• 24:43
  Right. It's like okay they're saying one thing but they're really saying something else. Yeah. But you're never going to catch it because you're not present. Right. So you're missing the which really the more important piece of this here. And then another one would just be conversations become shallow. Yeah. You know because I think if I'm, if I'm sitting across from someone and I can just tell me and they're not really in this thing, I'm not going to take risk in that conversation and get vulnerable that things can have shallow conversations.
• 25:14
  Yeah. And so what do you get? You get to an epidemic of loneliness in the world today that although people have connections, nobody's really connected. You know, they're staying on the service level. They aren't going to the deep. And and that epidemic of loneliness. And they're like, you know, that's a profound resurge. If you're lonely,
• 25:34
  It reduces the quality of her life. More than what would we say are some of the more destructive habits that are they're easy to point to. Yeah. And so with the lack of being fully present, people are leaving these isolated, lonely lives desperate for connection, desperate for a meaningful conversation, and nobody's available to them. Yeah, yeah.
• 25:54
  And so how easy is it for to feel insignificant and less than. And we wonder why depression rates are doubling and tripling and anxiety and all these things are happening because with a lack of somebody being fully present, invested and interested in your life, it's easy to kind of get in your own head and think, well, I don't really matter, and I don't have anybody in my life that cares, man.
• 26:15
  Even as you share that, those examples that the thing that gets gets me thinking about it and this is so unfortunate is like, think about all this widespread health problems, concerns you're mentioning there that are completely controllable. You know, like, you know, you think about there's so many sad things in the world health wise, whether it be cancer or any kind of terminal type illnesses.
• 26:34
  We don't control that, you know. You know, you don't control whether or not you you find out one day you have pancreatic cancer, whatever it might be. We're talking about things like loneliness or we have a lot to do with that. Yeah, like the things we're talking about and not the person who is lonely so much or not the burden on them.
• 26:50
  It's a community. Yeah. So like, these are things that are so easily controllable with just some conscious thought and sacrifice and effort. And yet, because we aren't doing these things, we see these widespread, legitimate like quality of life and like health outcome. Yes. Yeah. So this is a this is a call to action for all of us.
• 27:12
  So let's, you know, we don't have a top five list of things to do to be present. But if we had to say, okay, what are some practical suggestions? We talked about the importance of this. We talked about the power this we talked about the absence of this and what it really calls us. What are some things we can do to put it into practice?
• 27:28
  As you said, you got to get reps. Yeah. I mean, I think not to overly simplify this or make it and, you know, to, you know, basic or anything, but like, there's, there's really kind of like a golden rule principle here. Like, what if you just showed up to the conversation in a way that you would hope the other person would?
• 27:45
  Yeah. Like just that simple thing. Yeah. Like if you just tried to, to kind of practice the, the type of demeanor that you would have for like that would be a great start. You know, you know, to me with that, the words that I think stick out is how do you want to show up? You know, we talk so much about vision statements.
• 28:05
  And I think drew, you know, I've written like three in my life.
• 28:08
  I just changed man this morning where forever said I'm relevant, interested, and encouraging. I changed it to I am present interested in encouraging.
• 28:19
  And I think that being mindful of okay, what does that really look like? And can I write down those words that describe me? And the way to kind of think about that is what's it really feel like to have a conversation with you? What's it really feel like to be loved by you, to be connected to you? That's.
• 28:36
  And then think about, okay, if that doesn't feel good, then the opposite of write down the words. When you when you show up that are you curious? Are you humble? Are you present? Are you invested? Are you interested? Those are the words that we got to really think about. Yeah, those are great words. Yeah. It just I mean, it starts with I think having an elevated care factor.
• 28:55
  That's what we're really saying. Just recognizing that okay, there's this thing and it's very real. And I'm probably not acing the test right now. What do I want to do about that? Yeah. And then I would add think about the habits that you've created. Like Emerson calling me out is like, hey, dad, you came home and you kind of did your own thing, and it's easy to kind of get into that habit.
• 29:15
  You've had a long day at work just to go rest, but how do you disrupt those habits? How do we know? We've talked so much about how do you arrange the environment differently? How are you putting up your iPad? Are you putting up your phone? What do you have? You know, it's amazing how many people have the TV on all the time, or TV in the bedroom or or phones at the dinner table.
• 29:36
  Just really simple things that you could just modify your environment. I know it's easy for me if I'm on a conference call to kind of, you know, that I'm not like, you maybe got an email going over here or something. And so just trying to break some of those habits that are interfering with your ability to be present.
• 29:53
  And what I predict what we predict is you're going to reduce stress, you're going to increase your performance, you're going to strengthen your commitment to your relationships and your connection. Those are good things. Yeah. Those are those are all positives. If you're keeping score, people would like to be able to do that. Okay. I know we need to kind of wrap up here.
• 30:14
  I feel like we kind of tied it up pretty nicely there with our suggestions and recommendations. Any final thoughts from you
• 30:19
  Yeah. Our goal, which is to share lessons learned, is we experience them in life as we experience them through the lens of the people we work with to bring these ideas to you and and hopefully encourage you and challenge you to think, how can you just get a little bit better at these things that we're talking about?
• 30:33
  And so we always are grateful for you to listen, always are grateful for you to be connected to our work. We would love ideas and thoughts of how you're trying to put this into practice, about being fully present in the moment. Yeah, yeah, great challenge for all of us. Should you bring this up? Without a doubt. These are things that we I mean, I'm not doing very well in this department.
• 30:56
  So a very, I think timely and and just worthwhile conversation for us and for hopefully for our listeners. Yeah. So as always, thank you for tuning in. And we look forward to our next opportunity for you to join the Growth Project, because