Latest / Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast) / $15k to $2M+ in Pyjama Sales + Buying a Small Business with Midnight Mischief Founder Tess Nguyen (Part 1)

Transcript

$15k to $2M+ in Pyjama Sales + Buying a Small Business with Midnight Mischief Founder Tess Nguyen (Part 1) · Imagine If with Doone Roisin | Health, Wealth & Wisdom for Women (formerly Female Startup Club Podcast)

• 0:00
  Let's take this show on the road. Imagine a world where gender equality is the norm and women have equal access to the same financial opportunities regardless of our personal circumstances. Hi, I'm Dune, founder of Female Startup Club and your personal hype girl. This is the pod for you if you're starting a side hustle, scaling your biz or looking for inspo.
• 0:23
  We cover venture capital, personal finance, selling your biz, and keeping your mental health in check from entrepreneurs like Refinery29's co-founder, Piera Gelati, and Ju Ru, who sold Hero Cosmetics for $650 million. Slide into my DMs if there's a question you want answered, and let's get into today's episode.
• 1:02
  Tess, founder of Midnight Mischief. Welcome to the Female Startup Club podcast. Thank you for having me. I've been a long time listener. Oh my God, have you? I love that for me and you. Yes, yes. I feel as though I've learned so much through your podcast over the years. Oh my God, where did you find us? Oh, I think just probably through socials or maybe another business owner being on your podcast and that's how I found you.
• 1:28
  Love that. Love that for us. Cool. So I'm excited. I am a fan of pajamas. I love pajamas. I love anything that connects into sleep and that whole, you know, element of the evening. Let's jump straight into it. I kind of want to know about the starting story. I know you bought this business and it's not often we have kind of like that...
• 1:49
  story told on the show. So where do you want to start? Yeah, sure. So yeah, let's take it back to the start. Let's go back to like life before you bought the business and like what was happening in your world that was leading you to think about buying a business. Right. I guess if we just do a really short timeframe of like my life from when I was born. So I was born in like Western Sydney.
• 2:10
  had your typical upbringing where your parents are like, you know, you need to study, very typical Asian upbringing where you need to study focused on your education. There's no such thing as like a creative job. So yeah, started really hard, got into physiotherapy, really loved physiotherapy by the way, because I loved helping people. Did my four year uni degree, but then I guess in my first year of working, I quickly discovered that it might not be the path for me.
• 2:37
  Because I knew that I always wanted to progress in my career. I always wanted to be a business owner. So I guess the way forward was to own my own clinic.
• 2:47
  But when I actually was working as a physiotherapist and I saw the women having a clinic and their lifestyles, I just thought, you know, like I can't see myself being 30 years old and running a clinic and having kids and it's a full on lifestyle. So I always played and danced with the ideas of like having my own business. And I think at the time that was 2018 and that was like the rise of e-com and,
• 3:10
  That was like when Founder was like pushing out a lot of content. And so I just like always played and danced with those ideas. And that was a time when like, let's take it really take it back. It was like when Highsmell was popping off and like, you know. Yes. I think it was like the Kylie Jenner kind of thing was going on. So it was the rise of e-commerce back then.
• 3:33
  Got it, got it. And so you're kind of having these feelings, you know, maybe you don't love, you know, what you're doing in your kind of like day job and the nine to five and interested in this space. Did you have any kind of interest in pajamas at that time and like a specific category or a specific industry? Or you were just more like, oh, I love these like things that I'm seeing and learning and kind of like being exposed to? Yeah, I think looking back, I was always into fashion.
• 4:00
  as a kid because my mum always bought clothes and I grew up with her like sewing every single day. So I just saw like how clothes were made and yeah, she was just like a shopaholic. So every weekend like we'd go shopping or like window shopping essentially. And then yeah, like I just loved looking at clothes. I loved reading magazines. I would go into like the news agency, like I couldn't afford to buy it, but I would just sit there and read all the magazines, like high-end magazines.
• 4:27
  So I guess when I was young, that world was very aspirational and I really loved it. And I think I grew up with Tumblr as well. Did you grow up with Tumblr? So it was like very aspirational images. But yeah, I wasn't ever interested in pajamas, to be honest. How I actually purchased the business was through Gumtree.
• 4:47
  So I was scrolling through Gumtree one night, like looking through the free section because I was a poor uni student. And then I was looking through the business section because I knew I wanted to be a clinic owner in my first year out, but I was planning in advance. So I wanted to know like, how much would it cost? Like how much do I need to start saving? And then an ad popped up for Midnight Mishra. So that's how I saw the idea. So you see this ad pop up and like, what does it say? It was, I think it was just like, you know,
• 5:16
  Pajama business for sale. It was so long ago, but it was like pajama business for sale for this certain amount, which I could not afford, like never had that much money in my bank account. And it was like this picture of this really like alluring, like really beautiful, captivating image of this girl in like personalized pajamas. I've just never seen something like that before. And so, yeah, thinking back in 2018, there was no such thing as like, there was personalized pajamas, but it wasn't a huge trend yet. And yeah.
• 5:41
  At the time, you know, there was only really like Pete Alexander, Bonds. There wasn't really a go-to like ladies sleepwear brand. So I was just really attracted to it. I don't know why. I just had this great intuition about it. And I think it was just because I was young and I just never saw a brand like that. And it just captivated me, to be honest.
• 6:03
  So you see it and is it like, hey, just, you know, call me on my mobile or like here's some information on like revenue and like the size of the business and like, you know, send me an email or like, what does it say? Yeah. So on the description, it was essentially like, yeah, this is like I have a business for sale. Like this is this amount. Just inquire if you, yeah, are interested. And I hit an inquiry. I just was like, hey, want to know more information. And then like a month later, I had a business.
• 6:33
  Holy shit. I think I read in the article, in one of the articles online, it was like $15,000 and the brand was relatively kind of new. It was a smaller size business at the time. Did they give any information on like, hey, we've done X amount in revenue or we have this amount of products and you're kind of like buying the stock or like what was the context of the business at that time? Yeah, sure. So,
• 6:58
  The previous owner, she's amazing, like extremely creative. She's someone that loves to start up ideas, but she also loved her job. So the reason why she was selling it was because she got her dream career at a company that she always wanted to work for. And so she just didn't have enough time to dedicate to it, but she knew it was like a fantastic idea. She really loved the imagery and branding. So essentially she created all the branding and all the assets and the photography. So she did have the business running for one to one and a half years already, but
• 7:26
  It was at a smaller scale because, yeah, for context, she was the only one running the business at the time. And I think it was more so a passion project rather than a full-scale business. When I purchased the business, it wasn't as though I purchased, like, well, not purchased, employees, but it didn't come with employees. And when I did purchase it, it was essentially just, like, the website, a few pyjamas, and kind of just, like, the data behind it. We had, like, a few customers.
• 7:54
  like a few thousand Instagram followers, but it wasn't like a full scale business. Yeah. So it was kind of like business in a box. Yeah. Business in a box. Ready for someone to take over. I've done all that kind of like initial development stage, got the manufacturer sorted and like take it from here. Did you negotiate on the price or were you just like, yep, 15 grand, here you go. Here's a bank transfer. Yes. I definitely negotiated on price. I think initially it was
• 8:21
  I don't think I can say the number. It's just out of respect. But, yeah, it was definitely a lot more than that, $15,000. And so then I, yeah, just tried my best to negotiate because all – I think I only had like $10,000 in my bank account at the time because I was very bad with saving. I was like, you're very typical when I got out of uni. Like I had $0 to my name because I just spent it on traveling. I got the travel bug out of me. I went to Europe and did the whole thing.
• 8:50
  Um, so I only had about like $10,000 in my bank account. So I had like, I had no choice but to negotiate cause I couldn't get a bank loan. And then we finally settled at 15,000 and then I asked my sister for, I think it was like $2,000 and then my partner for like $3,000 and like, I never borrow money off anyone. So I had to like work really hard to pay them back really quickly.
• 9:14
  I love that. I love this story. Okay, cool. So you, you know, a month later, you own this business, everything kind of gets transferred over to you. Like, what do you do? What do you do, you know, immediately after? Like, what's the first day on the job like?
• 9:29
  Yeah, I think when I got it, I was like, what the hell do I do? But luckily, yeah, in the contract beforehand, I knew I was someone that like I'm very risk adverse. Like I don't – like I always played with the ideas of having a business, but I just didn't want to spend money. But I think with this, I thought –
• 9:47
  You know, the idea is there. I just have to go all in or I won't do it at all. But in my contract, I did put in there that I wanted to be mentored by the previous owner for six weeks. And we kind of set out a schedule of like what I need to learn. And then she just helped me understand like retail. And because she had a background in retail, that's why she was able to help me with the pricing. And she knew how to manufacture. She knew all about branding already. So she quickly upskilled me in like the basics of running a business.
• 10:16
  Got it. Got it. Okay, cool.
• 10:19
  So I read that it took you like two years to get to 2 million in sales or something like really amazing, really impressive. You're still working during this time. I kind of want to dig into like the playbook of getting to your first hundred grand in sales and then the playbook to getting to that first million because they're such different playbooks. And like the first hundred grand is like, it can be really difficult and it requires a lot of that like input to get that kind
• 10:49
  At the beginning, what is your daily actions and things that you're doing to get sales and get to that first hundred grand? Yeah. So I think looking back, I initially just had to order my first hundred pair of pajamas because when I purchased a business, I didn't have any stock. But honestly, I really didn't have any idea of what I was doing.
• 11:12
  So I think my first thing I wanted to do was just try to post on Instagram every single day, like really high quality imagery and just get really consistent with that. And honestly, like in 2018, like 2019, there wasn't really any traction because I honestly didn't know about e-com. So the previous owner, although she had a lot of retail experience, that was more like bricks and mortar.
• 11:34
  whereas she didn't really know about the e-commerce space. Like she knew a little bit of like, oh, yeah, you should run Google ads or you should boost a Facebook ads post here and there. But it wasn't as though she, like she wasn't in that space, so she just didn't know. So honestly, it was very organic at the very beginning. It was practically, we'll just, you know,
• 11:52
  on the first page of Google, like whatever sales trickled through the door, it would come through. And then luckily we did have that customer base from before. So I did have that email list. So when it came around to Black Friday, I was able to message everybody and tell them about our products. So that was our first few sales. But honestly, at the beginning, it was very, very slow.
• 12:13
  Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then what kind of changed? How long did it take you to get to $100,000 in sales? Or like, you know, a meaningful kind of like, yep, okay, we've got product market fit. Like now it's the time to expand further. Yeah, I think it took about a year, perhaps maybe like end of 2019, yeah.
• 12:30
  I kind of got a grasp of a few more things. So yeah, initially in 2018, I was just posting organically on Instagram, trying to figure things out, just listening to a lot of podcasts and trying to learn things from there. And I remember listening to a podcast from like the High Smile guys and they said, okay, like we grew through influencer gifting. So I honestly just like reached out to like a million girls just to see if anyone would take my product. And I probably got, you know, five replies. And then...
• 12:59
  Because I was like very frugal, I would like ship them in like the letter, like the letter package. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was just hoping that it wouldn't get lost. But I couldn't afford, you know, like $10. Like I wanted to ship it on the lowest cost possible. I'm just like telling that story because like that's where I started. And I understand like... And it's important. It's a great hack that you're able to do. I love that. Yeah. So yeah, we sent it out. And then we started to get some traction when girls were posting stuff.
• 13:27
  people were like, oh, what's that brand? Because they haven't seen a product like that before. Personalized pajamas, it didn't tap that influencer world yet. So yeah, I tapped into that and we started to get more sales organically and more interest there. And then there was one time where some, you know, when you get called outreach emails? Get a lot of those. Yes. Some guy from who knows where, he was like, oh, I'll run your Facebook ads for you for free. Just give me your passwords and
• 13:56
  At the time, I was very naive and I just thought like anyone who wanted to like reach out and help me, like they had my best interest. I was like, yeah, sure. Go ahead. Like I gave my password. No. But he actually turned out to be like pretty cool. And he like taught me about like Facebook ads, like because I was just only boosting, like boosting posts. So I thought that was Facebook ads. But, you know.
• 14:17
  going behind like the Facebook ads manager. And he was like, you know, you can target people, you can do this. And I was like, oh, wow, there's a whole world behind it. Wait, wait, wait. This guy reaches out to you and he says he'll do it for free, flag number one. Then he asks for your password, number two flag, you give it to him. And then all of a sudden he's actually a good guy and like helps you. This is like not where I thought
• 14:46
  Was there like a commission on the sales sold or something? He was just like...
• 14:51
  in his career of like Facebook ads advertising. So he was offering that as a service and being like, okay, once I do that for you, pay me a thousand dollars. But I didn't end up going with him because I was like, oh, a thousand dollars is way too much. Got it. Okay. So he kind of like teaches you or introduces you to the world of ads. And this is like basically a bit of a turning point where you're then like, okay, ads is how I'm going to scale the business. Yeah, exactly. So are you doing it yourself or are you like, no, I need to hire someone?
• 15:20
  Yeah, then I went to an agency, like the cheapest agency I could find. And yeah, once again, big mistake because they took a commission off my sales. But at the time, I didn't know. I just went with the cheapest option possible because I didn't have money to pay a bigger agency. So I went with them, but they were really good. Can't deny them. They were amazing. And then I think my other big win was PR agency. So...
• 15:42
  I was working with a PR. Well, I wasn't working with a PR, but I was holding an event with like a charity. And then that PR agency who was managing that event, she reached out to me and asked. You probably know her. It was Jessie at the time. And she just started. Oh, Jessie. She's so great. Yeah. So that was back in like 2019. I think she was just starting her agency. Yeah. I just wanted to shout out Jessie because she's amazing. Shout out to Jessie. And she practically said like, you have an amazing product. I would love to manage your brand.
• 16:10
  And at the time, like, you know, I didn't know what PR was. I was like, what can you do for me? And it was like so expensive in my world. But then I thought, you know, the time is now. I'm young. Let's try something new. And so practically, I just like saved all my income from my full-time job, paid for PR. And that's kind of like how we broke into the market, like Jesse said.
• 16:31
  was really helpful in terms of like teaching me about media, like you need to work, you know, months in advance. Here are like the hot people on like the PR world, the influencers, because I didn't follow influencers. Like I came from a busier world and all I did was follow fitness influencers. So she really taught me about, you know, that world and got my product in the hands of like really influential people, which I think was like a game changer.
• 16:57
  And is this like at this time, are you still working like the nine to five or are you like, yeah, okay, I'm going all in at this time? So that was probably around like mid, late 2019. So I was still working full time. The business wasn't yet ticking over enough to cover my full time income. So yeah, we're on a good trajectory because we're getting like some small wins. But then everything was kind of aligning to the point of like early 2020 when COVID happened. So yeah.
• 17:27
  At that point, I think it was like April, April 2020, an editor from news.com.au wanted to do a story about what was selling in COVID times. And so Jessie was like, do you want to be on this article? And I'm like, yes, of course. Let's be everywhere anytime. And then I remember that article...
• 17:47
  went up live on news.com.au and yeah like our sales like quadrupled in one day it was like insane yeah yeah what was the headline oh it was just like um products selling like hot cakes in like during covid and then we'll align with a lot of like not a lot but maybe like three really um much bigger pajama brands and that just really elevated our brand
• 18:12
  Right. And had you kind of before that time, had you been like, I need to get to X amount in revenue. And when I hit that amount of revenue, that's when I can quit my job. And what was that number? Like, is that the kind of two million? Because I've seen a lot of those articles where you went in that first two years to two million in rev. Where was the quit my job moment? Okay. So looking back, I definitely quit when it was a bit too late and I had a revenue goal, but
• 18:41
  Once again, I was growing so quickly and I didn't really have a grasp on business. So I didn't honestly, like everything was running off of Excel. Like I didn't have like zero or any accounting system until much later, probably in like 2021, 2022. So my finances were all over the shop and I wasn't even sure if I was profitable. I was kind of guessing at the time, like I didn't really have a good accountant. And I'm just stating this because this is the reality is if you don't come from that business world.
• 19:09
  Yes, so I definitely made all those mistakes. So I think I remember I was like, oh, when I hit $30,000 in revenue a month, I'll quit my job. But then that kind of bar went higher and higher, more because I was scared to take the plunge because I wasn't sure as well whether my income was covering my current income. So I honestly just quit when I couldn't handle it anymore. Yeah.
• 19:35
  So when I reached breaking point, I think the business was doing, yeah, it's definitely over like $100,000 or maybe like $200,000 in revenue. And I just couldn't. A month or in the year? Yeah, okay, got it. In a month. And then I just couldn't handle it doing my full-time job and doing that. I was reaching my breaking point and that's when I quit. So I wouldn't recommend that, but that's what happened to me. Wow, cool. What an amazing story. I love this. I want to kind of dig into like, okay, you quit your job.
• 20:04
  you're doing, you know, a couple hundred thousand a month. What are you doing then to kind of like maintain that? Is it, you know, still PR? Is it absolutely like ads are the kind of main revenue driver? Is it influences? Obviously there's a mix, like I get it, but kind of like what are the actual primary things that you're focused on every single day? I think it was mainly
• 20:28
  pushing my product through PR like understanding our messaging so for example in 2020 we really just really honed in like the work from home messaging and then also like the mummy and me because that was a trend that like no one really hit so we just like went hard on that like tried to be on all the mummy influencers um paid influencers and then I also went hard on ads so I think when I first started on ads well yeah spending about like 50 dollars a day and then we just
• 20:54
  Like I was just like to my freelancer, like if, you know, if the roles is this and we're hitting these numbers, let's just like go harder there. And she was just scaling it up. And at the time I was paying someone 500 New Zealand dollars to manage my ads a month, which is like crazy cheap. Right. So it was just like, yeah, it was just like a really good mix at the time. Like everything was very low cost because I was doing everything.
• 21:20
  And yeah, ads back then were like really, really cheap. So it was really easy to scale. Is this like pre like the iOS 14 updates? When there was like the, it's the world of 40 rowers and like the crazy, the crazy world of Facebook ads that never returned. Yeah, it was a good time. Good time. Okay, cool. And so...
• 21:43
  At that time, I feel like ads were also like less, like the content was important, but like in today's world of ads, like the content is just absolutely critical. You know, these platforms are so sophisticated. They can find the audience. But like if the messaging and the visual of the content just doesn't resonate, then like...
• 22:02
  you've lost basically. I want to kind of understand the journey from like, you know, around that time to now and kind of what the pivotal moments were, how things started to change as like ads changed in the landscape. Social media has obviously changed. Introduction of TikTok, like all the things I kind of want to understand like then to now. And also like, obviously we're in COVID and then coming out of COVID. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
• 22:27
  So I think, yeah, in Australia, most e-commerce brands were still growing throughout 2021, 2022. So we still like leverage that because we think we still had one bout of lockdowns in 2021. And then, yeah, 2022 was also another big year because I then decided to upskill myself in Facebook ads. So I did e-commerce equation, which was really helpful just to understand like what other brands are doing. Yeah, because I kind of just got sick of not being able to like understand my ads and like
• 22:57
  put up a campaign whenever I wanted to. So that definitely helped a lot. And this is e-commerce equation is Jay Wright's kind of, it's not really a course, it's like a done with you kind of group service, right? Where you get on like calls with coaches, they kind of teach you how to do your own ads, but you've got access to experts to help you whenever you want. Is that still the case or the premise generally? I'm not in the program anymore. I was like,
• 23:23
  I was part of the program when there was like less than 50 people. Oh, okay, right. The early days. Yeah, I was like very early. And then, yeah, it was practically you would go on group coaching calls and they would teach you how to run ads. And I honestly was like really scared to run my own ads for a long time because it's just like a scary place to be in control. But then once I took over them, I think that made a dramatic change to my business because like you're the only person that really knows like
• 23:51
  the pulse, like you have the pulse on your business, like what's selling every second, right? So I think that was like a huge game changer. Learning ads for me and then I think from then to now, like understanding like brand, product, ranges, like wholesale in general, like I just needed to upskill myself. So I think my main issue was that the business grew too quickly and it was like too big for my skill set. So I've just spent the last like few years kind of consolidating like myself.
• 24:21
  working on myself, getting all those habits in place. Because back then, even though the business was growing really rapidly, like I wasn't eating, like I was barely eating. I was barely sleeping. I was not happy. I didn't know how to manage my finances. So it was just like,
• 24:39
  Yeah, it was just like a shit show for a second. Yeah. You're like, I need to work through this to get to, you know, a place where things are more like systems, processes. Exactly. And eliminate this like simmering stress of not knowing. Exactly. So I've been more in kind of like that consolidating upskilling phase in the past few years.
• 25:01
  Because, yeah, like the business just grew too quickly where, yeah, if you can imagine like a physio student, first year out, never managed a team, like always worked in a small business, never worked in corporate. And now you're running a business, like multimillion dollar business. You can't even like look after yourself properly. So I just needed to, I guess I grow into myself and learn those skills first.
• 25:27
  At what point did you start hiring people into the business? And what were those roles to kind of help you, like help you in that transition process? Sure. I think I first hired someone in like 2019, like offshore staff, and she helped manage my social media. And then I was honestly still doing everything in like 2020. So that's why I was extremely burnt out. And I just didn't know how to delegate. Like I didn't have that skill set. I didn't even know how to do it.
• 25:57
  I think 2021 was when I started to bring more offshore staff. And once again, that was a decision because I was just scared. Like I wasn't sure about my numbers. I just wanted to keep everything low cost. And what were they doing? Those like offshore talent, what were the kind of roles or like, you know, deliverables or projects that they were really focused on? So then I ended up hiring four full-time staff. So one was managing my customer service.
• 26:22
  One was doing all the influencer outreach, management, PR, pictures. One was kind of just doing like everything, like management of everything, making sure everything's running. And then another one was doing more, I'm trying to remember now, like more wholesale. Yeah. Okay, cool. And at that time, was wholesale a big part of the business or was it kind of, you know, just a channel that you wanted to grow in addition to the kind of D2C website? Yeah.
• 26:51
  And we didn't necessarily push wholesale, but there was a lot of interest during that time because we were seen on a lot of influencers and a lot of celebrities. So we just needed someone to manage that or the wholesale orders. And it was more from smaller boutiques. Okay, got it.
• 27:13
  And for you, like, you know, when I look at your kind of product catalog now, you have so many amazing products. You have like the matching dog pajamas. You have, you know, basically a huge range. When did you start introducing like new product jobs and how important was that to the growth of the business? Like that newness and introducing new lines and different trends and things like that?
• 27:37
  Yeah, it was extremely important because when I first started, we had four pajamas, so one style in four colors. And then I just knew that we had to expand that range because it was a very niche product. And then, yeah, especially during COVID, we were predominantly a...
• 27:56
  like women's wear brand, but it was our customer feedback. They were asking, oh, do you have kids' pajamas? Do you have men's pajamas? Do you have this? Do you have that? Do you have three-quarter leg pants? Do you have this print? And honestly, the demand was there and I was just creating whatever our customers wanted. So we're very lucky in that space.
• 28:14
  Got it. And like, fast forward to kind of, you know, recent years, like last year, this year, what are the kind of things that you focus on now? Like, I know that you guys have a really big Instagram, but is it still like, you know, we still gift at scale, we still work with influencers at scale, we're still doing ads, or is there like that and, you know, it's pop-ups or TikTok, or like, what are the kind of things that work in today's world for you? Mm-hmm.
• 28:42
  For us, it's definitely more like staying top of mind, email, like nurturing an email list, but definitely like our main driver and focus is product. So creating new products.
• 28:52
  because, yeah, we've been around for a while now, so we do have the audience. But I guess, like, one of my lessons and one of my learnings was, like, in 2023, I took too much time off, like, traveling and, like, enjoying myself, and I wasn't working on those new product releases. And so that was, like, one of my mistakes, where I wish I released more products because, like, for example, we released probably one new product this year, which is way too slow. But, like, once we released it, it's sold out.
• 29:21
  So I just know that if I continually do release new products, like our audience is hungry for it. I just need to get into the creative mode. Right, right. Yeah. So newness is that really big driver to kind of keep it fresh and to be able to re-engage your existing loyal kind of customer base. How do partnerships work for you and like collabs with other brands or other kind of like even influencers on those kind of product development pipeline? Hmm.
• 29:50
  Oh, what do you mean by that? As in like campaigns? Like, well, I'm like, do you, you know, do you do partnerships and like partner with someone to do a limited edition print on, you know, like, I don't know, like Pantone or like another cool brand in a different space and doing like a collab range capsule collection? We've only done it with brands so far where, you know, they've reached out
• 30:19
  But not necessarily done it in like a big marketing campaign. Like a lot of brands have reached out to us being like, hey, can we put our logo on your pajamas? And then they'll use it for their campaigns. Got it. Yeah. Got it. But we haven't yet tested the whole like influencer collaboration campaign. That's definitely on the cards though. And definitely we want to do more licensing products and ranges as well.
• 30:43
  Oh, and so licensing products, is that like, you know, getting the license for like Disney or something and doing a Disney range or like a, you know, a frozen range or something like that? Yes. Yeah. So if you think about, let's say like the OODI and how they do a lot of licensing. Yeah. So Davey talks about how that really helped grow his brand.
• 31:03
  And like, how do you get a license? How does that actually work? Oh, I'm still in the process, but essentially you can reach out to them. A lot of them do have like licensing deals. There's even an expo, I believe in Las Vegas. It's like a licensing expo. So if you really wanted to, you can go there and talk to people and like get those licensing deals there because they're also there to make money off you.
• 31:25
  Right. So basically, kind of like you reach out, you pay some kind of upfront fee, and then you pay based on like units sold a commission or something like that? Yeah, I believe so. So like I said, I haven't gone through the whole entire process yet. But essentially, yeah, you can either negotiate. It's like retainer or it's like a royalty fee of every product made. And then you kind of negotiate with them.
• 31:49
  on the whole deal. I love that. That's so cool. Is there any like teasers that you can drop of who you're going to be doing some licensing deals with? Not just yet, but let's just say key moments around like Easter. Oh, okay. Great. So think about that, who you could license with in Easter time, family. Okay. Exciting. I love that.
• 32:14
  Okay. I want to understand like more about, you know, Instagram seems like it's your primary kind of channel. And, you know, I think you have circa 80,000 followers on there. What is kind of like your influencer strategy at the moment? What are the things that you're doing that are working? And is it you doing it or is it someone offshore or is it someone onshore doing that content? And well, I mean, whatever the strategy is.
• 32:38
  Yeah, so I do have an Australian freelancer and I found like that just works because they like are really interested in the market. Whereas if you have someone offshore, they're interested in their own world, right? So Australian freelancer and then she has like an offshore assistant to do all like the tedious work. So yeah, we still do influencer standouts. I think our big recent win was like in Valentine's Day, Tammy Hembrough posted a
• 33:05
  one of our send outs, which is pretty cool. Oh my God, that's so cool. I love that for you. What's the impact on something like that? Oh, so there's a lot of interest, but I think at the time our product, it was like red pajamas and it was posted on Valentine's Day. So it wasn't like if it was posted earlier, perhaps maybe people would have wanted it to, I guess, buy that as a product, but it was like on the day itself. So it was a bit too late for that moment. So yeah, my advice is,
• 33:35
  For example, if you want more sales for Mother's Day, like do those campaigns in advance and like paid campaigns in advance because then it gives like your customers some time to think about that product and then, you know, ask their husbands to buy for them. Send the link. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, there was definitely a lot of like interest and brand awareness because I know that
• 33:57
  My friends, for example, they're all flicking across to me and being like, oh my gosh, Tony Hambrow posted. Or during that campaign, they're like, oh my gosh, I keep seeing your brand everywhere. So even if it wasn't like direct increase in sales, it was definitely just like keeping your brand front of mind.
• 34:11
  Yeah, very much like top of funnel. Top of funnel, yeah. And like for you now, what are the things that you're like, yeah, I just know that if I invest in this, I get, you know, this ROI. And I know, again, it's like a lot of different things and there's creators or UGC or there's ads or there's PR or there's like long term, you know, more of a Google kind of SEO strategy. Yeah.
• 34:33
  all the different things, but what are the things that you're like today? This is what's important to invest in. Like this is where I am happy to spend money because it's working. Okay. I think for me, for example, our bridal range does really well. And it's because yeah, our product is unique in the market. It's in demand, like brides are always wanting to spend money on our products. So it's honestly just like figuring out your offer, like your offer in your, in the market, like for example,
• 35:02
  If I was trying to sell summer pajamas right now, like no one will buy it, right? Because it's just like not the time in the market. So figuring out like what's actually working, like I always try to look at, you know, what's actually been selling in the past seven days and focus more on that. So, you know, if we're getting big orders for bridal, then I'll just focus on that bridal messaging.
• 35:22
  spam it through organic socials for our Instagram because that's where most of our audience lies. And then I honestly just target a lot through ads and like just really hold in on that messaging. So for example, we have a Christmas in July campaign right now. So we're selling Christmas pajamas in July right now. And that's just a way to, yeah, be ahead of the competition, be in front of people's minds. And I just like am very competitive in that, like if they're buying Midnight Miss Shift now, like they're not going to buy another brand for Christmas.
• 35:52
  Right. Or some customers only come to us like for Christmas pajamas. So it's like giving them the option to shop with us early. So it's just, yeah, my main focus is like product, like product, offer, and then amplifying that message.
• 36:09
  Yeah, I love that. There's like editorial calendar of things that are happening in the year that you can cling on to, i.e. Valentine's Day, Easter, Christmas in July, Christmas, blah. But then there's also life stages. Yeah.
• 36:22
  Bridal party, bridal moment, whatever other moments that are like life events that you can also tap into. And so when you think about how many moments there are in a year or in someone's life, like, I love that. And then all the fun stuff, like the matching and the, you know, the dog pajamas and stuff like that. So cool. So interesting. How fun. Very cool. Yeah.
• 36:46
  Just circling back to a second for this kind of like, you know, we were talking earlier about offshore talent and now you have obviously a mix of onshore and offshore. What is the kind of roles that you still outsource to offshore talent? And like, do you recommend that kind of for, you know, if someone's listening and they're in that early stage and they don't have the budget to like hire full-time staff or hire, you know, on the ground kind of team members, what should they be thinking about with offshore talent? Yeah.
• 37:16
  I think you can definitely offload customer service. It was probably a little bit trickier like back in 2018, but now, for example, ChatGPT exists, so you don't have to. Oh, my God. Yeah, it's incredible. I think there was a lot of issues with like English and like tone of voice and everything like that. But, for example, ChatGPT, you can just pop in your customer service manual and then like, you know, get, if they have a customer inquiry, they can just pop that customer inquiry in there and all type of response. So it's like so much easier now.
• 37:44
  whereas before yeah there was a lot of teething issues in terms of like you know you're not writing the message the right way so that has definitely made like everyone's life easier and I definitely recommend outsourcing your customer service as soon as possible if possible I still would recommend you to like do your customer service because you get that feedback but once again I always ask my VA like at the end of the week like
• 38:09
  What's the customer feedback? What are they saying? Is there anything? Like, is there a complaint? What's the positive? So that just helps you keep in touch with the customer side as well. I think social media management, like scheduling everything is important because that's a lot of time wasted if you're doing it yourself. I think those are the two main things that you can do. And yeah, if they can do social media management, if you have the content already, like they can schedule everything and like repost on every single platform and that can really help you.
• 38:40
  What would you say like to a small business owner listening in right now, like what not to invest money on? Like what you should not be spending on and based on lessons learned, what are the things that are easy traps to fall into? You know, like you can just drain money, not get results and then be like, shit, that didn't work. I think what I see what happens is a lot of people pay a lot of money for Google ads, like a lot of agency fees for Google ads and SEOs.
• 39:10
  And I think that's not necessary. Like you can set up Google ads is something where you can kind of sit and forget. Like, okay, you can't really forget about it, but it's not as intricate as let's say Facebook ads. So you could have someone, you know, work on the account like a few hours a week and then have it set up or SEO, for example. Like that's more of a long-term game, but if you want, you know, quick sales through the door.
• 39:32
  like getting on the first page of, you know, like your search term isn't going to get you from A to B as quickly as you want. So I would say just be wary of those depending on your product as well. And, oh, that's a really hard question, but perhaps even like rent costs or warehousing costs, like try to keep everything as, I guess,
• 39:58
  bit strapped and as lean as possible because I, yeah, I have friends in like the e-commerce accounting space and she said like in Australia right now, the retail market is pretty soft, but she said the brands that are doing well, other ones are like doing $20 million in revenue, but they're like doing it all from home or they don't have lots of, yeah, like they don't have lots of staff, for example, whereas the ones that are really struggling are the ones who are really finding it difficult to scale up and down quickly. Yeah.
• 40:26
  Right. So kind of like those fixed, locked in, like overhead costs, like, yeah, an office or like a warehouse or a big team when it's like, you want to be as lean as possible, basically. And so for you, are you still doing your own ads now? Or have you now outsourced to an agency? So yeah, it's been a journey. So I started running my own ads in 2022. And then I ran in 2023. Then I started trying to write like,
• 40:54
  I thought, okay, let's try to get it outsourced to an agency or freelancer. They were great. And now because I have the skill set to run my own ads, I know what's good and bad. But I just felt that the missing parts was like they didn't care enough.
• 41:09
  as much as like you as your own business. So ideally, like because of those two lessons where I've actually learned the skill set, I've tried to outsource it to an agency, like a great agency and a great freelancer, but it still just wasn't hitting the mark. So I think now it's more about like building that internal team. I think I tried that route and then now it's like, no, I think we just need to keep it in-house.
• 41:30
  Right. Okay. Got it. For you, what is your kind of like superpower and zone of genius that you're like, I need to make sure that I put time and energy every single day into this? Because obviously, you know, you're running the business, you're running a team, you're managing lots of different things, but where's the thing that you're like, I'm really good at X and I just know that I do that every day. I think that's...
• 41:54
  Okay, so I know I'm really good at products and like knowing what people want because I'm my customer. I don't do enough. So that's why I will be behind on the new product launches. And that's why I wanted to bring that up. Just like that's a mistake that can happen to anyone. Don't play too much. Still focus on your business. But yeah, I definitely focus on, let's say like, yeah, new products. For example, our feather pajamas.
• 42:19
  Like I was meant to release that back in 2020, but then light got in the way. Business was growing really quickly. But even though I released it like two years later, like that's still one of our best performing products. Right now, I just try to focus on like talking to my manufacturers every single day and making sure like we're moving the needle moving forward on product development. Got it. Got it, got it, got it.
• 42:40
  I want to understand, because what month are we in now? We're like nearly in August. We're in July. We're coming up to August. Like when is Cyber Weekend and like Black Friday? It's like November. It's November. How do you plan for that kind of moment? Because obviously like this is a big moment for a lot of e-com brands and then this blends into kind of like Christmas and gifting sales. So it's like gearing up to that time. How far out are you planning for that?
• 43:07
  What is the strategy in the lead up? Yeah. So, yeah, that's a very big question and very loaded question because, yeah, like most brands, it's like pyjamas time to shine in November. So if you look at the Google Trends, like Pyjamas,
• 43:22
  we peak at December because like everybody wants to buy pajamas as a gift. Everybody wants to wear pajamas, like pajamas are just everyone wants matching. Yeah. Everyone wants matching. So it's just like, we really take it seriously. And I definitely plan like, yeah, we're planning from now. I'm already starting to sell Christmas pajamas now. That's how like I sold Christmas pajamas from July to December. Oh shit. I thought you meant more like just Christmas in July pajamas, but now it's already starting. We're selling Christmas pajamas now. Yeah.
• 43:52
  Oh my God, that blows my mind. I'm like, that's like forever away. Okay. Wow. And so are you kind of forecasting and doing your projections on like how much stock you'll need for Cyber Weekend and like what the offer is going to be and what the product range is going to be and things like that? Yeah. So even when it's like last Black Friday, like right afterwards, I would already like assess
• 44:17
  Like what's happened? What's sold? Like how can we make it better? Like what products do we need in? Like what, you know, what's sold out really quickly? What items are people on the wait list for? And then I generally, yeah, we have like our Black Friday stock coming in. It's pretty early, but around September. But we just like to be extra stocked because October is also another big gifting season, I suppose. And we try to, I guess, get that new customer acquisition in October because if they try our product in October, then they'll buy it again.
• 44:47
  during Christmas. Oh, right. Wow. And like, now that you've got, I mean, many years of Black Friday kind of learnings under your belt, what are the kind of like do's and don'ts that you could share for someone else who's, I need to like get on top of this, you know, for this year. Okay. Yeah. Do's is, yeah, definitely try to, your best to forecast yourselves and
• 45:11
  if you have revenue goals, like work backwards, like how much stock you actually need, make sure you're not over discounting. I think one of my Black Fridays I over discounted and we didn't make as much profit as like the previous year. So just be wary about your offer as well. I also recommend like trying to do like a gift with purchase so people can have like a, you know, bigger average order value when they purchase on a day. And I think I like doing like prices as marked rather than an automatic discount because,
• 45:40
  It's just like a psychological thing when they go on your website and they can actually see the dollar amount, like how much they're saving. I think those really contribute to a successful Black Friday. And I think really honing in on your email, SMS strategy, and your messaging beforehand, like one month in advance, just to teet out any issues. But don't be afraid to spam your audience because I know that a lot of people are like,
• 46:09
  oh no, like I don't want to be annoying, but everybody's being annoying at that time and you just need to cut through the noise. So don't be afraid to like email your customer list like every single day, like SMS them a lot of times because every other brand is doing it. So you just need to kind of like cut through that noise as well or try to start early. Like Black Friday is going early and earlier every single time.
• 46:30
  So, yeah, 2018, Black Friday was pretty small. 2019, people started to know about it. Like, it wasn't well-known in Australia just yet. And then, yeah, now I saw brands last year, like, starting in October. Like, they were doing their own Black Friday in October. And then a lot of brands were starting on November 1st. So, yeah.
• 46:49
  this time around is kind of just like cowboy. Like you do whatever you want. Cowboy. I love that. So do you then have like kind of a calendar or like an editorial kind of overview of this is how our messaging is going to change throughout that period. So it's like, you know, the offer might be like X today and it's totally different tomorrow or next week. And the messaging is totally different too, to kind of like keep it fresh if it's going for these kind of
• 47:16
  longer periods of time versus it used to just be, you know, like a long weekend? Yeah. So previously, I think in 2022, yeah, our Black Friday was a normal Black Friday. And then November, we had like a month long because I just saw everybody launching straight away. And we just needed to be like ahead of everybody. So we trialed that as well. But the month long Black Friday just got really, really long. So I think this year, we're just, like my plan is to release like new products throughout the year.
• 47:45
  the like the month or like the few weeks or like limited edition releases to keep it fresh so that's what a lot of new brands are doing now see because people purchase once but then they won't ever come back for example my brand were the perfect gift essentially so it's just a nice way if you release something new and a new offer or like an old product or a new like an old color way that people want it's just a nice way for people to come back to you
• 48:13
  Love. I love that. So clever. Very cool. What do you want to shout about? What's exciting? Oh, what's exciting? Yeah, Christmas pyjamas. If you want matching Christmas pyjamas and doggy pyjamas, we're already selling them. Or if you know, yeah, anyone getting married, we're also releasing, yeah, some really cool bridal dresses. I'm definitely, like my focus is trying to elevate our brand even more and creating like,
• 48:41
  really cool products because I see a lot of brands in like the US like have some really nice things but then in Australia we don't have that offering and it's like very expensive to ship over here so I'm definitely focusing more on that bridal aspect especially because I'm reaching in that new phase of life where I'm like looking to get married so like I'm my perfect target audience that I can design for so that's practically what I'm focusing on like keeping it simple like
• 49:09
  I really love our Christmas collection. Like that just gives me a lot of joy. And I also love like the bridal. So I'm really just like leading into those two like offerings at the moment. Love. And what's kind of a piece of advice that you would leave anyone who's listening in right now with that's your like key learning, key lesson, key thing that you love to share? I think it's just keep pushing, like believe in yourself.
• 49:38
  You just need to continually work hard. I think one of my big mistakes was I kind of like took my foot off the pedal because I was like, oh, yeah, we did so well this year. Like I can go on holidays. And like I heard that business advice of like you can't take your foot off the pedal. Like, you know, business can go like up and down anytime. Like you need to be really focused. And I thought like that won't happen to me. And then like, yeah, I took too much time off. But then I definitely felt it this year. And once again, like I'm just telling this just to get the realities of like, you know,
• 50:08
  those real business lessons that people don't really talk about. So it's definitely like you need a safe focus and you need to be consistent like every single day. I think that's my main driving message. And when things feel hard, like that's normal. Like you just need to keep pushing.
• 50:26
  think that's my main message. I love that. And I think it's so true. Like when things feel hard, you need to keep pushing because that's like, that's the time when it's easy to quit, but you've got to keep compounding the effort and compounding those tiny actions every single day so that you come out the other side eventually. Yeah. Cause my favorite, um, I love listening to a podcast by Sally McRae. She's an ultra marathoner and, um,
• 50:52
  Like I just love mindsets of like elite athletes, like how they think through things because they're going through extreme pain like running 200 kilometers at a time, right? Oh, my God. Yeah, she says, you know, it's like really easy to quit in the middle when you can't see the finish line. So it's the point at the middle where you just need to keep pushing because no one ever quits at the end or like when they see the finish line, right? So the middle, if it feels shit, it is shit, but you just need to keep pushing.
• 51:21
  I love that that's so true what's the finish line for you are you going to sell the business oh I think that's still up in the air oh I guess like I'm reaching this new phase of life where I'm like do I want like world domination or do I want to keep this a lifestyle business and I think I've been playing with the idea for a very long time because I need to figure out like you know as when I have children like what do I want my lifestyle to look like and my big focus is around health like
• 51:50
  that's a very big value for me. So I just want to make sure that I'm growing the business sustainably, but still keeping my health because right now I'm training for a marathon and I would rather have a smaller size business if I can run my marathons and set a time aside for that. So that's what like success looks like for me. For example, if someone said you can have, you know, a hundred million dollar business or you can't, but you can't run your marathons, I wouldn't take
• 52:17
  I wouldn't take the $100 million business. So... Yeah, you want your like peace, mental health, sanity, the stuff you love, your like daily joy, live a good life. Yeah. Yeah, I'm with you. Yeah, that's what matters for me. And I know, yeah, everybody's different. But yeah, finish line, it could be like selling the business if the opportunity presents. I think right now it is like still a passion project where I love.
• 52:41
  like being able to creatively like design things that, you know, my family would wear or my friends would wear for their wedding. So I'm just leaning into that and then seeing where it takes me. Yes. Love that. Love that for you.
• 52:57
  Hey, it's June here. Thanks for listening to this amazing episode of the Female Startup Club podcast. If you're a fan of the show and want even more of the good stuff, I'd recommend checking out femalestartupclub.com where you can subscribe to our free newsletter. We send it out weekly covering female founder business news, insights and learnings in D2C, and interesting business resources.
• 53:22
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• 53:44
  As always, please do subscribe, rate and review the show and post your favorite episodes to Instagram stories. I am beyond grateful when you do that.