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Don't Let Them with Robyn & Alyse - The One With... · Reclaiming Consciousness

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast series that we are embarking on.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: I really want to just challenge myself to be the same, the same as I am behind closed doors with my loved ones and the ones who know me the best, who know that I'm a little bit snarky and a little bit sarcastic and have a lot to say about a lot of things that a lot of times I keep my mouth shut about publicly for a million different reasons, probably.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Just to be as authentic and transparent as possible, let my inside voice become my outside voice.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Reclaiming Consciousness.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Elise Bassine, a trauma and breath work expert and creator of the Metamorphosis Method, the only methodology bridging the gap between spiritual healing and clinical trauma work.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: For many years, our consciousness has been hijacked by societal and cultural programming, religion, the media, and familial and ancestral trauma.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: In this podcast, you'll discover my unique perspective on trauma healing and how it is the gateway to fully reclaiming your consciousness.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: You'll hear stories and teachings that expand your mind as you discover how every relationship challenge, business block, or limiting pattern is an invitation to reclaim the parts of your consciousness you unknowingly gave away.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Get ready to go deep.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's dive in.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the show.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: So this week I have a special episode for you.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: So Robin and I are doing another thing.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: We have not come up with a name for it yet.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: We're still going back and forth about that.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about that a little bit on the episode.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: But what we do know is that we are going to be doing a monthly joint podcast where we just kind of talk off the cuff about things going on in the world, things that have come into our awareness that we're thinking about that we find interesting, and just really sharing our off the cuff authentic perspectives on spirituality, the online coaching industry, consciousness, the world stage, like all of the things.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I think you guys have heard me share when we started Bewitch that I just this year have had such a strong urge to really just express myself authentically and not hold back.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's been such a point of growth for me since I started my business, is one of the coping strategies around my own trauma is people pleasing, not wanting to create confrontation and, you know, really for my own safety, like needing to manage other people's experiences of me, not make people feel uncomfortable.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: And the ironic thing is, is so much of my work is confronting and can make people feel really uncomfortable.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: So that's something that I really have had to work through and shift.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I really have in so many ways.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like this is kind of the next level of it because I really want to just speak authentically and share my real opinions and views and perspectives on things, even if people don't agree with them, or it sounds like I'm being judgy or whatever it is.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: I just felt this need to just be real.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Not that I wasn't being real, but it's just kind of like a real authentic conversation that Robin and I would be having on the phone while she's driving to the gym.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: We always talk while she's driving to the gym, or like when I'm walking the dog, or whatever it is.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like we always end up having these conversations that are just like real off the cuff, talking about deep issues, making fun of things.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I just wanted to bring that to the podcast because I we talk about this a little bit on the episode, but especially right now, I feel like we're all craving that authenticity, especially with the rise of AI and a lot of times really truly not being able to tell whether something is real or not.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's really the spirit that this is coming from, along with the fact that we got so many messages from people about how they loved our dynamic and how you guys loved just the way that we talk to each other and explain things and share and the way that we hosted the Bewitched series, and we had so much fun doing it.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: We just wanted to create something new.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: So we've gone back and forth a lot with the name.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna reveal a name yet, although I think we're getting close to one.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: But the funny part is that we asked Chat GBT like what TV characters her and I would be.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: And we have already established that Robin would be Phoebe from Friends.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like we've been talking about that a lot.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: But the funny one is that Robin asked her ChatGBT what TV character I would be, and it said Elaine from Seinfeld, which we all thought was hilarious.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then the funny thing is, without knowing that, Robin asked her husband who he thought I would be, and he also said Elaine from Seinfeld, which is also really funny because my husband always jokingly says that I dance like Elaine, which I hope is not true, although I'm not a great dancer.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, we've just been kind of going back and forth with the title and the vibe, but it's basically all that I explained.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it's gonna be once a month at the beginning of the month.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really excited to bring this to you.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: In this conversation, we talk about just a few things going on in the world, our take on those things.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, honestly, I can't even remember everything we we talked about.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: It was just kind of off the cuff.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I really hope you guys enjoy this.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to rate and review the show.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Send me a screenshot, rate and review on Apple, by the way.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Send me a screenshot, and you will receive a$250 credit that you can apply to anything new in my world.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: And speaking of, we just started the Metamorphosis again.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it is so good.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's always so good.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it just keeps getting better every time.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've been running the Metamorphosis for five years now.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's still going strong.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, it's better than ever.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: And what I keep saying to people, because now I have women who, you know, are doing it for the third or fourth time, some the second time, and some first timers in there.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the ladies who are on their third or fourth time going through it, it's like it just keeps getting better.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not the type of thing that you just do once and it's done every single time.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's more and more and more.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I always say, like, people who signed up five years ago, when I go on the back end and teachable, I see they're still logging in regularly and using the tools.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it really is the gift that keeps on giving because the tools are something you can continue to use for the rest of your life to support you in navigating change, navigating triggers, navigating challenges in your life, and also just supporting you in the growth and expansion that you desire.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: So this program really is, in my opinion, unmatched in just the results it creates, especially if you're somebody who is feeling like you keep hitting a wall in either your business, your career, with your finances, in your relationship.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you feel like you can't, no matter what you do, you can't really make the change that you want.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like you change a little bit, but then it kind of ultimately goes back to where you started and you keep repeating the same pattern.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is for you.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Cause I've helped hundreds of women at this point really permanently change long-standing patterns or challenges because I'm able to help them get to their core wound, which is the reason why it's happening.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: And speaking of core wound, if you have not downloaded my new private podcast, The Core Wound Solution, I highly recommend going and listening to that because that is the introduction and overview of the concept of the core wound, where I teach you how to pinpoint what yours is and I go over the steps to dissolving it.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you really want to listen to that if you haven't already, it's completely free.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: We'll link it below.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a great first step into doing this work because I've really taken what a lot of people hopefully accomplish in years of therapy and condense it into five simple steps to make this work that is typically confronting or can feel overwhelming incredibly simple for you to navigate and something that's easy for you to understand.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Please go download that now.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Also, if you are interested in working with me and joining the metamorphosis, or you want to find out the best way to get started in my world, you can schedule a call with me and we will link that below as well.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Cause that's the best way for me to just hear exactly what's going on for you and then point you in the right direction.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I will leave it there.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to hear from you just how this episode lands for you, what you think about the new iteration of me and Robin, and I will see you soon.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Have an amazing weekend.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, everyone.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: We are back.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Hello.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: So Robin and I are doing a new thing that we're trying to figure out what it is.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: We're doing a monthly podcast together where we are just going to give our hot takes and perspectives on a variety of topics.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: And we're still trying to figure out what this is called.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: By the time you guys hear it, we might know.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, we'll know.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think that like Robin's use of Chat GPT to try to figure out what we should call this has only made me more confused, but it also provided a lot of laughs.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, my chat GPT and I have had over 4,000 chats.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Just so we're clear.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I run the transcripts through it from Bewitched, and it knows you really well and it knows me really well.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so yesterday, when we were preparing for today's recording, I said to Chat GPT, just give me some ideas for titles based on what you know about me and Elise and what we want to do here.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I gave some examples about what we're gonna do here.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: And there were some that were really funny.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was all very entertaining.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of it was very spot on.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like it gave us a lot of information to then synthesize for how we really want to put this together into a title.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I think what we're clear on is we got such great feedback from before around our synergy together and the way that we explain things, the way that we break things down.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And we wanted to continue that, not only because other people liked it, but also because we do.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's the starting point for all of this.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to share a couple of these titles, including the one that you came after I called you yesterday with the titles, and then you came up with one.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: So the one that made me laugh out loud.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let me start here.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: There was one that it said, Elise and Robin, seen and uncensored.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: The subtitle smart, spiritual, and totally over it.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Then the one that just made me like, if I had been, it would have been a spit take.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: This is why we can't have nice things.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: The podcast where two therapists say quiet things out loud.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I think part of it too is Elise that for us that we just have this no-nonsense approach at this point to spirituality.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that what we've been through has really created the conditions for us to have really refined our bullshit meters to the point where it brought forward your favorite option, which was what?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: When we were thinking about just all the like annoying things that go on in the spiritual space, which like there's not enough time in the day for me to explain all of those.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I was like, what was that book that that person wrote that everyone keeps talking about?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it's that book, Let Them.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, we should call the podcast Don't Let Them, which I'm still very much voting for, by the way.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll see.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see what we end up landing on.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Don't let them is so funny too.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because here's the thing is that I've got a lot of sarcasm built up about some of the major leaders in the personal development and spiritual development spaces.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: I have a lot of sarcasm.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I was thinking about all the podcasts out there that have these really cool, kind of snarky titles and the people behind them and having this perspective on how they've gotten there and how they've become these really relatable people in the thought leadership space.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: I just I so I asked Chat GPT if he could put some of those together too.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Some of them I listened to, not gonna lie.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: What's his name from the Eagles?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: His wife who quit Kelsey.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I've never listened to that.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: She's just funny and very straightforward.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Or Caller Daddy.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever heard that one?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: There are some that are just like they're really like tight and succinct titles and a little bit snarky.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I kind of like that.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll see.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: TB T B continued on that one for sure.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, as we are deciding on what we're gonna call this endeavor, this new project.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: What's been going on in your world since we ended Bewitched?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, first of all, I think I've been thinking a lot about this actually, like how we could continue our dynamic and also just share the conversations that we have behind the scenes or off the cuff about things that are going on.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been excited about that and just thinking about how we can do that.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think in the beginning of the year, when we decided to do the Bewitch series, I had just had this very strong feeling around very much needing to show up in my own authenticity and like needing to like authentically express, right?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's something that we're seeing a lot more of a need for, especially, you know, as we look at the use of AI too.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's like any content you read could potentially just be coming from AI or even any image or video or whatever.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that because of that, the need for like real authentic expression is even more like everyone wants that even more.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's what really is resonating with people.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: And also just for me, that's just what I felt like because I feel like I've always had a lean towards people pleasing or managing everyone's experiences of me to make sure that no one is like mad or offended or whatever.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that whole kind of way of being has been dismantling within myself for a long time, but now I just feel it dismantling in an even bigger way and just the need to just share what I actually think, what I actually see.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that people appreciate that.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's my thoughts behind this, and then also just what's been going on.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think just more of that and continuing to move forward with my business and all of that, and just enjoy the space afterwards.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there's more that I'm forgetting.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: One of the reasons I didn't want Bewitch to end is because I love doing this with you.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to tell you this.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I was at professor camp last week up in Lake Michigan.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: You can't like swing a stick without hitting a PhD.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: And my ride or die, I have a ride or die beside you.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, but I do.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I know.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Michael Diana, he's my academic little brother.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: He's amazing.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: You told me about him, yeah.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, he was telling me he's 26 and he's almost done with his PhD.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: At any rate, last year we worked together at Professor Camp in a small group, and our small group had such a great experience compared to everybody else that they split us up this year.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't let us work together.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, he was telling me that in training now as a psychologist, they're still being taught in therapy to be a blank slate.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Even though the person teaching them, and this is at a D1 PhD program in counseling psychology, it's a top-tier program.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: They're still being taught to be a blank slate, even though the person teaching them this says that she doesn't do that.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I was thinking about that for us because we both come out of the field of counseling, therapy, and the impact of that, even that subconscious layer of you have to be a blank slate when you're working with somebody so that they can project their own thoughts, feelings, emotions, unconscious desires.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can reveal whatever it is that you need to reveal about them in order to bring about transformation.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I was thinking about that.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, I was appalled that they're still teaching that, but secondly, because for us, for me especially, I think that for so long I have been, I've had this outward-facing, I don't want to say persona because it's not, it's not a mask.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: It just is an aspect of who I am that is the PhD in psychology and the professional.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: I have to be a certain way in public in order that my clients will be able to not have to get mired down in my own stuff, but can actually express themselves and so on in their sessions.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: I say this because for me, this podcast series that we are embarking on, I really want to just challenge myself to be the same, the same as I am behind closed doors with my loved ones and the ones who know me the best, who know that I'm a little bit snarky and a little bit sarcastic and have a lot to say about a lot of things that a lot of times I keep my mouth shut about publicly for a million different reasons, probably.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one of the reasons I want to do this from a personal perspective is to just what you said, just to be as authentic and transparent as possible.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Let my inside voice become my outside voice.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: I have the same intention too.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that one thing that happens for me a lot is, and you'll probably see this through the lens of the Neo when it comes to like the openness, but and I think this is also like in my astrology as well.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: I remember an astrologer said to me, a lot of people think they're open-minded, but like you actually have the most open mind that you could possibly have from like an astrological perspective.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: So like I just have the ability to see every different perspective at the same time.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: So because of that, sometimes it's yes, this is how I naturally see something or this is my perspective or opinion or whatever, but then like to share it, then all of a sudden I'm able to see every other perspective too.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm like, oh, I just feel like maybe I don't want to say anything because now I see every perspective.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's a double-edged sword because I think it's actually a superpower to be able to do that because I can hold so many perspectives at once.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really ever get offended at anything because I just don't live in that reality.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's good, but then at the same time, it makes it so that sometimes I hold back because of that, or I don't weigh in on certain things that actually I think I want to weigh in on.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what this is about too.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think so too.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: It reminds me of when I was in grad school, I was in my pre-doc internship at Kansas in the student health center.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I had this one client who she looked like Barbie goes to college.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like she was wearing like a little plaid skirt and Argyle sock.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like you looked like that though, Robin.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, she well, listen, it was 2005.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like she was Barbie Goes to College.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was 2005, so it was more like Barbie goes to One Tree Hill or whatever.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Remember that time, like that era of like you wore shirts that had like your little belly button showing and Levi's and oh, Abercrombie.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: That was a big thing.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: I used to get in trouble going into the counseling center wearing my Abercrombie distressed jean jacket.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: The director, she said, How long have you had that, Robin?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I said, I just bought it.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, Really?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: It because it looked like it had been through a lot.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like all of that is like back in style now.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: I know I love it.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I love seeing those girls wearing their their Doc Martin boots and their little sundresses.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's circa, oh my God, that was even before that.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's like Beverly Hills 90210, frankly.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was like 90s.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Early to mid 90s.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: I would go through that again.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: That style, I love it.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that's really like the truth of my style, is like that.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: At any rate, to get back to my point here.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: My client is literally Barbie Goes to College, not the 902 version or the One Tree Hill version, but really, and she's making the stupidest decisions, like hitchhiking on the K 10 and hanging out with creepy people.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: And she was beautiful and she was smart and she was just doing stupid shit.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I had to record my sessions and I'm sitting with my supervisor, Tracy, who is this tiny little woman who was so smart, and she had trained at Menninger Clinic, and she had these great credentials.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I just felt so I'm sitting with her.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And she's watching this tape because we still had tapes.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like, Robin, why aren't you saying what you think?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: She's making really stupid decisions.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, I didn't want her to be mad at me.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And Tracy looked at me.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, you know, you'd be way more effective as a therapist and you'd be sick less often if you just say what you thought.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that this is good practice for us to say what we think, because to your point, just like you, I can hold all the perspectives, as is clearly shown by my 24-day misadventure with the entity formerly known as Betty.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: I can hold those perspectives.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: And yet it's like coming home to yourself, to your own voice, to your own heart, and saying what you actually think about something.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's where the gold is.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: And kind of wanted to go back to the blank slate thing, too, because I don't think I've really ever thought of that since I was in school.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because I do remember that from being in school, but like it wasn't ever something that I, I don't know, really even thought about.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it gets so infiltrated into everything that we do as therapists or clinicians, that see, I don't remember it really either, other than, you know, it was based on Freud's teaching.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that it just gets baked into anything that you do as a clinician, even if you're trained in another modality or another theoretical orientation, like a cognitive behavioral or whatever, there is still sort of this nod to you have to go in and be a blank slate.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I will say this there is incredible importance and value in knowing what your stuff is, so that you're not getting your stuff mixed up with your client stuff.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not arguing that at all.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's essential.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that there's a better way of thinking about it other than the blank slate.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: See, I feel like that's not the right way to describe it because I would describe it more as like what I teach everyone in my certification is like you said, you have to learn how to put your stuff to the side.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's more about holding a pristine, clean, and clear space, right?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that like they feel safe enough to open up and you have a level of presence that you're showing up without an agenda, right?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I like to describe it as that, but the blank slate, I feel like that's not if what they mean is like what I just described by blank slate, then yes, I get that.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't feel like that's the right way of describing it as like Yeah, not at this point, anyway.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think that because even in a session, whether we're talking about psychotherapy or coaching or any of the work that we do at this point, which to me is so far beyond where we started as clinicians, beyond meaning that people don't come to us with diagnoses and we certainly haven't hung our shingles as therapists or clinicians at this point either.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: But we have to be able to allow that space to unfold.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not constantly thinking about, oh yeah, that reminds me of a time when I did X, Y, and Z or making it about me.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: On the other hand, my clients still want to know what I think.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: They still want to know what I think.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: They want to know what you think.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then also at the same time, you don't want to make it about you.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: But if you have a story to share that illustrates a point that would help them in that moment, or would show them how you handled that situation and came out on the other side, or when you experience that and what you learned from it, they do want to hear that.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's like very valuable for people and they always appreciate those kind of stories.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like you have to, and also I think it just takes a level of like awareness and intuition to be able to decide in the moment what is necessary versus being some kind of like formula.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we talk about blank slate and then we talk about self-disclosure.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: And there are actually in the younger set of clinicians who are coming up, they're saying, Oh, I can't self-disclose at all.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: Meaning what?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: They can't.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it goes back to the blank slate is I can't do any kind of self-disclosure because that's a boundary violation.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: So they've become, and listen, guys, I've been sitting with Barb, who's been, she actually just taught a new class at KU this year called The Art of, I think it's the art of counseling.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember, but it's about those micro counseling skills.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: And the feedback that she got from a lot of the students was we're never supposed to self-disclose.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: We're never supposed to talk about our experiences.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Self-disclosure is my most potent tool in my toolbox.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not talking about even telling a story necessarily.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Self-disclosure can be like, this is what I'm experiencing right now in my body, or this is what is coming up for me physically, emotionally, and so on.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's a form of self-disclosure.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that we're talking about a really nuanced, obviously, there's always more to learn, but I would say pretty much mastered this art of what we do.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's not counseling.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: We should ask Tachi BT.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: I will.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we should.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I totally agree.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: And also I just feel like I taught about this last time in the certification too.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Trusting yourself and your intuition has to come first.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is what should be true for any kind of practitioner working with clients, like in this capacity as a therapist or clinician or whatever.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you can't, if you're automatically just going to defer to what you learned or somebody else's formula, like that's not really ever going to be helpful for people.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I think a lot of people are concerned that ChatGPT is going to replace counselors because Chat GPT does a pretty good job of actually following the protocols.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: But then you have to be able to go beyond, like any good practitioner will not be following protocols.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like they'll be taking all the knowledge and experience that they have and synthesizing it into their own way of doing it based on like meeting that moment and then listening to what they are guided to do in that moment and trusting that.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I was said to everyone, I'm like, I can teach you all of this stuff about trauma, but if you don't trust yourself, like there's no point in me even teaching you any of this information.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we've talked about how important discernment is.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we've reached a point in the spiritual development space, the personal development space that we really have to start to tease out what is intuition versus what is influence.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because our brain states are constantly being bombarded by other people's agendas, whether it's TV shows or music that we're listening to or books that we're reading.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so all of those brain states are basically swimming in other people's ideas.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so when we really clean out all of the brain states and reclaim our ownership of our own consciousness, our stewardship of our own consciousness, that's when we can really lean into intuition.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, I think it's really sometimes hard to differentiate what's influence, what's external influence, and what's my own wisdom, what's my own knowledge, what do I actually think about this thing?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Not what does Barb think, or what does Elise think, or what does fill in the blank think about it through my lens?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: But if I pull out everyone else's influence and just simply drop into who am I and what do I think about this?
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: That I think is a major milestone for anybody who's practicing any kind of energy psychology or multidimensional technology or healing modality.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think is the best way for people to get to that place where they can differentiate?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: And like, how would one know if, say, we just said this to my certification students, they'll be very happy to hear this.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, say we just said that to them.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say if they were like, well, how do I know whether it's influence or intuition, or even how do I know whether it's like I'm just doing what I think Elise would do or like what Elise said versus like my own intuition?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and there's obviously going to be some overlap there.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: There is.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think that when let's take your certification students for this is a great example.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: We have to, you and I have both been listening to the Imagination podcast and doing a lot of you more so than I.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: You you introduced me to this whole thing about trauma-based mind control.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I really started looking at the brain states that are involved with the trauma-based mind control.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: What is programmed on the delta brain state?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: What is programmed on the theta brain state, or the alpha or the beta, or even the gamma brain states?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to understand that that's primary, that everyone has some kind of program running on every single one of our brain states that's not natural and that is not our own.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's not necessarily or inherently bad, but certainly given what we know about the trauma-based mind control, a lot of it is.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of us are influenced by, especially those of us who are open to new experiences, highly intuitive, are influenced by these programs that are running on the brain states that we don't even have real conscious awareness of when we look at theta or delta in particular.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Those are really slow, low brain states that are deeply meditative states.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: They can still influence our decision making, they can still influence our perspective on everything that's going on in our lives.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: So that's number one.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: We have to understand that that is like the essential ingredient to getting at what you're asking about.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that when I discovered that I've done all of this energy work around brain optimization and I have all protocols for that.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: So then in my C-suite with my multidimensional leaders, what I've started doing is helping them clean out all of those brain states so that they can take custody of them again, so that they understand that they're the stewards of their brain states.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: Once those are cleared out, you get this level of clarity about what is mine and what is not mine.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like energetic hygiene, also.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's not something that is one and done.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: That'd be like going to the gym and doing like one push-up and expecting that you're gonna have a ready-to-model body or a bikini ready body or whatever it is.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, well, I think what it brings to mind, because when when I teach energy work and stuff, I always talk about consent, right?
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: And we've talked about this, but this is similar to what you're saying is like you can revoke consent from anything that you unknowingly consented to to have access to your brainwaves or your consciousness or whatever, and that being a part of your energy hygiene, energetic hygiene.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that is important too to remember that like our power lies in our consent or our ability to retract consent, because nothing can access our consciousness or our energy field without our consent.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes we unknowingly give consent through various things.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I mean, we give consent all the time, whether it's checking a box on I agree on whatever thing I just bought from whatever app I just subscribed to, to turning on the TV, that's a form of consent.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: So when we look at energy hygiene, if I consider, which I do consider myself this a psychic surgeon, before I go into any surgical field, I'm gonna do my cleaning first, I'm gonna do my hygiene first.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's gonna be part of the process so that when I go into the field, I know that what's mine is mine.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: In as much as you can know what's mine is mine.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, to your point, it's not gonna be a perfect situation.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that the awareness is such an important piece of that.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Also, the other thing I think is really important to recognize is that we're meant to be stewards of our own consciousness and to take responsibility for all of the layers of our consciousness, whether we are aware of them or not, through what you just talked about with consent, and then also just the energetic hygiene around the brain states, particularly.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, that makes sense.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: We came a long way from the blank slate.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Here's where I want to get to is I think we're actually in doing the energy hygiene, in taking conscious responsibility for our own states of consciousness.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think that does create the conditions for a clean field.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: I would argue that a clean field is a way better way to describe what we're doing rather than a blank slate.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think a blank slate, it almost gives this feeling of not having an opinion or not having a viewpoint on it or something.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that to me doesn't make sense at all.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: It almost leans towards not really using your own discernment or your own like ability to help the person or to create a transformation.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like, oh, let me just be this thing that the person just like talks to just so they can talk.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not really like talking is very helpful for people to process, but that's not all.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's not why we're here.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's just one piece of it.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was surprised when I discovered this.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: Barb actually has letters that were written between Sigmund Freud and I think it was one of his clients.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: They would write letters back and forth.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: So she has this series of letters.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I was reading them, this was years and years ago, when I was organizing her office after she moved to Kansas and I was her research assistant.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I was reading the letters, and I was like, I had all these assumptions about how Freud would be, given that he sort of originated this idea of the blank slate.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: And these letters are the most genuine and heartfelt and loving and kind letters.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think that when we say blank slate, we make the assumption that there's no emotion.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: But that was not my experience in reading his letters.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and also I think we have to remember, too, that that terminology was created in a much different time as well.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we don't know the exact intention behind those words or meaning behind those words.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're just interpreting it as if we would interpret it from now.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: But back then it might have meant something completely different.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna read this text message that you sent me on last Monday.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: You said, Hey, how are you?
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you're having fun.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Have you seen all the crazy stuff about Aubrey Marcus?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think you and I should unpack it on our next episode.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I say, Hey, I'm good.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Love being here in Michigan for the start of the summer.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't heard what's going on.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: What shall I listen to or read to get an update?
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Great idea for an episode.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: So this is what you say, and then we can dive in.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know what I said.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: What did I say?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh well.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: You really gave me all I needed to know.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: You say, so basically the internet is going insane right now because he basically came out saying he's bringing another woman into his marriage and calling it radical monogamy with quotes around it.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't follow him at all, but it's obvious he's owned.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: This is clearly a spiritual manipulation, and I think we should call it out.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'll send you the podcast.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: I've only seen the clips.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: Did you watch any of the podcasts?
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: No, did you?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: I tried.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: How'd it go?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: I just have a very hard time.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think I like got all the information I needed to get.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: And listen, I think there's so much nuance to this.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what I'm more interested in with all of this, because listen, I don't care what people do.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think people everyone should do whatever they want to do.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think one of the things that's becoming really clear, and I've said this forever.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: I remember saying this to my metamorphosis clients in the very beginning, is it's never about what you're doing.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's always the energy behind it.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: When people talk to me about addiction, I'm always like, well, anything could be an addiction, right?
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: Drinking out of this fucking water bottle could be an addiction if you're doing it with the intention of numbing out or coping, right?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's not about the thing, it's about what is the energy that it is coming from.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that the reason why people were so up in arms about this is because there was an energy behind it that did not feel aligned.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: There was something behind it that felt like it's manipulative.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like it was stinky, like something smelled, like something.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think the other thing that happened was there was this whole kind of uproar of people saying that this is the right way of being is this.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's like divine union and this, and then and then I think it brings about this whole conversation of, well, first of all, why is there a need for people to then say this is the right way or this is the wrong way?
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't actually believe that that's true either.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think everyone has their own truth and way of experiencing reality, their relationships, everything.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's their prerogative to express that.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: And if it's an integrity for them, then great.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that with this specifically, and and this is also something that I saw recently too, is that first of all, I'm guessing most people who hear this will have heard about this at this point because it's I feel like it's a little bit of old news.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: But if you haven't heard about it, unless you're like me and you're living under a rock.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, also I don't follow this guy, and this is he's like the type of person that I'm like extremely uninterested in.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, have no, it's just no.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I just saw all these people talking about it.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to find out what was going on.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: So basically he's like, I don't know, like podcaster guy, one of these people that's like super into like plant medicine.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: And he like had this relationship that he was like propagating as this is like amazing, monogamous, a monogamous relationship.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: And him and his wife were like teaching people how to create this great love and like monogamous relationship or whatever.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: But then behind the scenes, they actually weren't really being in a monogamous relationship.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's the reason why people were also like up in arms about it, which makes sense.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like he was obviously lying to his audience who was paying him a lot of money to help them get this result that he said he had, but actually didn't.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that in itself is kind of like more of an outward manipulation.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I think like the underlying problem that a lot of people were having with it is that it's this whole thing that I think, in my opinion, we see with a lot of these like spiritual broy kind of people.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I see it a lot in the breathwork scene too over the years, where it's like these breathwork dudes that are doing breath work the same way you do like a cold plunge where it's like, yeah, oh, breathe.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just like to me, I'm just like, no, thank you.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know where that's taking you, but nowhere I want to be.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I have no interest in that.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care what uh level of consciousness you're at.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to be there with you.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right, but it kind of reminds me of that whole thing.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: And again, no judgment, it's just not my thing, but it kind of reminds me of that whole thing where it's like the tendency to just you, and this is what we talked about in the entire series of Bewitch, which is using spiritual language to mass what is just manipulation or narcissism or some kind of self-serving behavior.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: Sadism, maybe, yeah, but like some kind of self-serving behavior that is having this mask of being somehow spiritual.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think with this guy in particular, it was just kind of him wanting to date a younger girl now that his wife is getting older.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: So then like masking it as some kind of spiritual thing when really it's just he wants a girl in her 20s.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's that's the that's just like what it comes down to, you know?
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that was like why people had such a big problem with it, because it felt like there was something off about it that could be felt.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think too, it brings up this performative aspect of spirituality that I'm so over the performance, doing things for the laughs, doing things for the the drama, doing things for the the likes, whatever it is.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that performative, like that over self-disclosure, yes, to do something that is shocking.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because when we look at what happens to our brains when we're shocked by something, it's like the energetic of and maybe not fear, but it's definitely compelling.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like a dopamine hit.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a dopamine hit for the people watching, but also I think energetically, when we look at the darkness, when we look at the creatures among us, they feed on that shit.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so do we want to participate in something that's actually contributing to, well, I will say it contributing to the topic.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: To the demise of human consciousness, because all of the focus is right there and everybody gets spun up about it.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I learned during my 24-day misadventure with the entity formerly known as Betty that that is a big thing is keeping people in fear, keeping people in uncertainty, keeping people on the edges of their seats is very productive for those who you use the word owned.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to talk about what that means to you?
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's nuance to that, right?
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say that, what I mean is I think there's other agendas at play other than this person just being their authentic self online.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's other influences under the surface, whether that person realizes it or not.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people can just blankly throw these things out there.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, I think there's just when I can tune into somebody, I don't feel necessarily connected to the person, even though maybe they are saying things that could sound good or sound like something I would resonate with.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's just something about their energy that is just not something that I feel resonant with or connected to.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying that necessarily means that they're owned, quote unquote.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: But what I mean by that for this person is that to me, it feels like one of those people that we're all supposed to like and agree with because they have a big platform and they're talking about all the quote unquote right things, but their energy just doesn't back it up.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, it feels there's other forces at play that want this person to have a leadership role or people to follow them because they're spinning some kind of narrative that serves somebody, that serves somebody if people believe this person, listen to them and like their narrative.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that kind of thing I can just usually smell from a mile away, and I think you can too.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I meant by that.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I think there's nuance to it, but that's that's how I see it.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: And also I just have a problem too when I feel like people are using spirituality to sell somebody like a dream or an idea that's really something that could only ever be the result of an internal quest, like an internal journey that is different for everybody.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: And also, to me, what it feels like is like preying on people's need for like love and connection and whatever, and kind of like uh what's the word I'm looking for?
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: Community.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like their need for community for validation, yeah, but then using it like against them, like it goes back to the patterns of manipulation.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is something that we're seeing more and more.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think this kind of thing has always been a problem in spaces of spiritual leadership, like the whole guru thing, like all the yoga communities that were like this, all of it.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think that this Nexium thing, all of those things, I think that it's always been there, but now we're like getting into the point in our own evolution of our own consciousness where it's much more easily spotted.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: And to bring it back to this whole Aubrey Marcus thing, I think why I find this so interesting and why I think it created such a huge explosion is because it represents like a shift in the consciousness of what people are no longer tolerating as part of leadership or spirituality or whatever.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that is the thing that's so cool about it is because I think that if this happened 10 years ago, people would just be like, oh yeah, whatever that guy.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe I should try it.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I should have a little micro dose and do a polyamory pivot.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: And again, nothing wrong with that.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, like now I feel like people are just more sensitive to less about the things that this guy is saying, but more tuned into like the underlying energy of this doesn't feel right, or it feels like he's manipulating us.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the thing that I think is so exciting is that this type of energy is gonna be short-lived.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like I feel like it's not going to be able to stay afloat much longer as people just evolve and are really able to like tune into energy more easily.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: Can I tell you what I think?
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: Please.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: Remember how I've said people show you who they are, and our job is to believe them.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I go back to my experience with Betty over all those years where I can track back, and she was telling me exactly what she was doing.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: She was telling me exactly who she was.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't get it until I got it.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: And this time I went on his Marcus's Instagram.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, let me just see.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I watched his intro video, which is like a three-minute whatever reel on who he is.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: And he starts out by saying, Some people have called me a cult leader and goes on from there and does all of these contrasts in the both and.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then he has a new book coming out.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: The cover has his face on it.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: Half of it looks like, I'll say Satan, and the other half looks like a normal bro.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, that's all I needed to know.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: You've just shown me who you are.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm complete.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the difference for me between if we do a before and after.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: I can look at something and I trust my discernment to say, oh, oh, he's just being metaphorical or he's being ironic, or no, no, no.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: He's being very straightforward and telling to me, telling me exactly who he is.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that's all I needed to know.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: And again, like this is not to say too like that I'm sure people have gotten value from working with him or being in his spaces.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, sure, of course.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there's so much nuance to this.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: And again, like we obviously have been through this whole thing where we obviously couldn't see things that were right in front of us.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not like we're any better, any worse than anybody.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time, I think it's like it's easy to see when you're not in it, right?
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because, like, for somebody like him, you and I are not people that would naturally be attracted to him.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like easier for us to see.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was even talking about this with somebody who reached out to me about another coach who had manipulated her and all of these things about it.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it was funny because when she told me about that person, I was like, oh yeah, that person always seemed like weird to me.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: But it was just funny because I'm like, okay, well, everyone said that about Betty too.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's just there's so many different ways that we can be reeled into something.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying, oh, we are above this or something.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's just more about talking about what we see and also like why this stuff happens.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I think why so many people resonated with Bewitched also is because we were bringing something to light that everybody was thinking.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this Aubrey Marcus thing did too.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think that it brought to the forefront something that everybody was thinking or feeling, which was like, are these people certain people, not even just him, who say, you know, that they know all this stuff and have this huge platform.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is it really real or something feels off or whatever?
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then when that came out, it like created this thing that lit the flame and the flame just spread.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that it was really cool to watch, honestly, because it was really interesting to see so many people responding and so many people having different takes on it, and then people going back and forth about it because I just feel like it created a shift in consciousness, not just him.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like it was already happening and we saw it with our podcast, but it furthered it or something.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how else to say it.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the other piece that I thought was very interesting is even though his wife was saying that she like quote unquote wanted to do it, I think everybody who was watching could tell that there was something else happening underneath the surface.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_00: And people were really able to tune into that and call it out.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it created this narrative or like kind of new storyline in the space of women who are, I don't want to say submitting themselves, but who are maybe in relationships where they are saying, oh, I'm gonna deal with this thing for like my own growth or whatever.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, what there's such nuance there?
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a really interesting conversation, too.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: Of okay, yes, there are certain like things that we have to face, like trauma and stuff for our own growth in relationships.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: But what is the line between facing your trauma to grow in your relationship versus having your boundary impeded on by something that's actually not okay for you?
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: Questioning your intuition or setting aside your intuition in the name of growth.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's straight out of the Nexium playbook.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_01: That is something that was repeated over and over again in the HBO series, The Vow, and the other people who have written books about their experience with Nexium, is a lot of this was done.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's for your own good, it's for your own growth.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so it creates this energetic and intuitive override on your core value, who you are and what you stand for in the world.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: And when we acquiesce that it's very coercive and it's very subversive as well.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that awareness that you're describing, that the the people who watched the video and watched his wife's reactions to this, who knows what she was actually thinking, but you're a pretty darn good read of behavior and the kind of the underlying energy of something like that.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: So well, and then also the other thing that I find interesting and like paradoxical too is I found for myself, and I've and I've seen this with other people, is that when you are in a situation that is not okay for you, that is also forcing you to grow, you also will get to this point where you do grow through that situation, and then you get to the point where you're able to say, This is not cool with me.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it is like that paradox of, well, you do put yourself in that situation for whatever reason because you believe you deserve that because of your childhood, and maybe you're telling yourself it's so that you can grow and come out on the other side, but then you do end up growing actually.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not like it's not in service to you, but it's also not good for you.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: But then you also grow to the point where you can be like, peace out, this is fucked up.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and it brings up the question does the ends justify the means?
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because at the same time, would you have had the opportunity to transmute that trauma that attracted you to that situation in the first place if you weren't in it?
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I'm not saying you need to be in like an abusive situation in order to transmute trauma either.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be the case at all, but it's just an interesting paradox of the whole thing.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying there's a right or wrong answer.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: I just think it's interesting.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: When you were talking about that, I was remembering something Barb had told me a long time ago about what her role is as a therapist.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, and I would say she would extend this into even mentoring as well.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: And she said one time, her job is to deepen your disappointment in yourself until you bow down to it no more.
• 56:22
  unknown: Wow.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so whether it's disappointment or fill in the blank for another a word besides that, I think that what occurs to me is like when I look back at when I finally pulled the plug on the whole Betty situation.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: There was one line.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was a one-liner that was finally the thing.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: It was, are you so psychologically weak that you can't keep your mouth shut?
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: That was mine.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: But it like wasn't that just one line though.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: That was like the thing that pushed you over the edge after like already getting all the other things.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was the thing that created the conditions for me to bow down to it no more.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so there is something about, listen, I would not wish what I experienced on anybody, or for whatever reason, I made this, this was my experience.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I also think that we can look at what is it going to take to rise up and rise beyond the coerciveness and and the conditions that we have submitted ourselves to.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_01: Should we close the book on Aubrey?
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't need to give it too much air time.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: I just wanted to point out the way that I feel like first of all, it was related to our entire conversation and be like what I noticed, like from a wider perspective in the collective, that it ignited and just my excitement about that because I do feel like it really sparked this deeper conversation around using spirituality to manipulate or sell something that's not really real or authentic.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I'm not saying he's not real or authentic.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to make that claim.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: I will.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't think that he is, but I'm just saying that's what that situation felt like.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, from my personal perspective, I don't feel like he's real or authentic.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_00: In my intention to be fully authentic, that's actually what I think.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_00: Same.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying other people need to think that.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: I just keep on hearing this word coming through, which is knuckle dragger.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't matter what the what the topic is.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think that we're moving into like a different space within this whole whatever you want to call it, spiritual, whatever.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know what to call it, but I think we're just moving into a different space where people have a higher level of discernment.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: For example, like in 2020, I feel like anytime somebody showed up online and said that they were like intuitive or they channeled something or whatever, anybody would just be like, oh my gosh, and just listen to everything that they said.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like now it's so not like that at all, which is interesting to think back on because that was only like five years ago.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's very interesting.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_00: But it's so different now.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think in five years ago, though, everyone was feeling so uncertain that anyone who showed up on the stage and was certain and saying that they were channeling higher wisdom or different perspective or whatever, everyone was so hungry for some kind of direction or some kind of reassurance or some kind of answer.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_01: Answer, yeah.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: That anybody who showed up with any kind of modicum of confidence and command in no matter who they were channeling or if they even actually were channeling, that was the thing that I think really hooked people in.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: And now we have a, I think, a deeper sense of security.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: Things feel a little bit more certain, even though you and I know that the one thing that is always certain is that things will change.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_01: But there's no global pandemic right now that's created the conditions for the whole world to be rocked.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: So in those times of great uncertainty, there is that tendency, I think, to look at people who are, even if it's simply just acting confident or acting like they have different information, can be very compelling.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_01: I, on the other hand, in 2020 was reading books on the Spanish flu from 1919 or whenever that was.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I want to know what they did in order to get through this.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_01: One of the first things I did.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: I just wanted, you know, what are the clues?
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that makes sense.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that I like what you said about people are becoming more sensitive to the bullshit that's coming out and being able to stand in your own truth.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there may be just as many people on the other side saying, yeah, rock on Aubrey.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't have an opinion, whatever blows your skirts up in terms of your own what you do behind the scenes.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not the point.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: It just is, I think to your point, it's like justifying it as a spiritual practice.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: That was the thing.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_01: Is it j did I use the word right?
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is it justifying or is it it's kind of like selling it?
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like selling it.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: Selling it as a spiritual practice.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, I've been watching The Vow and studying the Nexium and Keith Renary and that whole using sex as a tool of manipulation.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's so typical.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's a spiritual tool of manipulation, too.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: That I think is what it felt like.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: Or it is what it felt like.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that's the thing that I think a lot of people are reacting to.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_01: Thank God.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_01: Keep reacting.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_01: So what else are we talking about today, Elise?
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_01: We saw those videos that were really weird.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_01: So can I set this up?
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: So Elise and I and a couple of our colleagues have this chat on WhatsApp where we, I don't know what we do back there.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: We do a whole lot of different stuff, but somebody we just share everything.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_01: We just like share share everything.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's like our anything that comes through.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: We go back there and we have conversations.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_01: We all trust each other.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: We all have different perspectives.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to be developing some tools that we're going to be bringing forward individually and as a collective in the service of high integrity spiritual development in a response to everything that we experienced during the Betty era.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, one of our colleagues put in this video that on the surface appeared to be a Brene Brown video.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_01: And in this video, Brene was talking about the characteristics of cults and cult leaders.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_01: And we all on the surface, like the first pass through, were like, oh wow, that's really interesting.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: That Brene of all people is talking about cults and cult leaders.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_01: How interesting is that, particularly after our foray into the bewitched world and everyone coming out and talking about the entity formerly known as Betty.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_01: So another colleague very quickly discerned that after listening to it, that no, actually, this is AI.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_01: And the phrase very quickly became what's a deep fake of Brene using somehow technology to mimic her voice and then to bring forward this stuff.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_00: It did sound like her voice.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_00: It also sounded like an AI version of her voice, but it also did sound like her voice.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_00: There was like that video, and then there was a couple other ones that were, well, first of all, they didn't have any images of her.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_00: They were just her voice.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: And there was a vibe to it that was really weird.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_00: To me, it had this like underlying energy of wanting to create fear, but like on this like more subtle level.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_00: But then it also reminded me of like it had the quality, like an educational video you'd watch in school that was like boring that didn't really have a soul.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was hollow.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was just weird.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it really also begs the question of the whole AI thing, too, of like how it really creates this feeling of what is real or can you trust?
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_00: How do you know something is real?
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it just goes back to the energy that you feel.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have to be able to decide that for yourself because we don't know.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we all, it's not like we confirmed that this was AI.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: We just all agree that that's what it felt like.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just one of those things that kind of brought up these questions of can you really know if anything you see out there is real other than just your energy?
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, there's ways to know.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like you and I are like real people.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like we've met in person, we've met our clients, a lot of our clients in person.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, obviously, there's that not that I think anyone thinks that I'm AI or that you're AI, but you know what I'm saying.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like when you're just like looking at random stuff on the internet, what is the way of knowing that other than just your own feeling?
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I want to get into Brene for just a second because I remember when she first had her TEDx video, this was years ago, that went it blew up.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_01: It really put her on the map in terms of somebody who had something interesting to say about shame in particular.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_01: And really feel like that that was the only thing that she ever put out that I connected with.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_01: After that, most of the stuff that she put out felt pretty repetitive and overused, overdone.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like she was just kept.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: On recycling the same stuff over and over.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing I want to say about that is that I respect her because she's a researcher, she's got a PhD.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's a lot of things that I appreciated about her, particularly in the beginning.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_01: But what I couldn't figure out, and this became kind of a signal to me that something's not real or something doesn't ring true to me, is that when everyone else is so lit up by somebody like Brene or somebody like Glenn Doyle or whatever, and I don't get it.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's my signal.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't get Gabby Bernstein.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't get it.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, there's something that I used to make myself wrong for that.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I'm not cool enough, or maybe am I missing something?
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_01: But that's actually the way my system reports into me that there's something off for me.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so before our colleague put that video in, like a couple days before that, I saw a reel of Brene and it was her face, and clearly it was her talking about something.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, wow, maybe she shifted.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like it felt like maybe she's got something there.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then a couple of days later, incoming is this video on her talking about occult forces and cult leaders and things like that into our group.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so we had to look at, or at least I did, I had to look at what's the pattern here.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_01: What am I noticing?
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because my automatic response, because I had already been primed in a real, unconsciously primed to think, oh, maybe she's onto something.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then I see this.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow, that's really interesting.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_01: That now she's talking about a thing that I'm that I've been talking about, that you and I have been talking about.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was able to see pretty quickly how easily I'm drawn into something without proper discernment.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_01: And fortunately that didn't go anywhere.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_01: Not that it probably would have, but there was just this moment of me kind of reflecting on my own process in discerning if something is real or not, if it's coming from the actual person or if it's AI.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_01: Is it a deep fake?
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_01: What is it?
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_01: What's occurring to you about that?
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's a lot of things.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think that it's interesting when we just think of things in terms of the field, like the energy of the field and like the algorithm, right?
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_00: The AI algorithm, but also like the the real algorithm of like life.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was talking about this this morning in the mothership group.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I've been telling you, I've been like playing with this energy of the miracles that keep happening with the city of Philadelphia.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_00: It keeps happening, Robin.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_00: I was supposed to have jury duty today.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_00: And instead, here we are.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_00: Miraculously, you don't need me.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it counts as going.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there was a lot.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, I'm not gonna get into it right here of all of it, but I was playing with it because I'm like, okay, I'm not really attached to this.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna play with this idea that these miracles keep coming back to me every time I engage with something having to do with the city of Philadelphia.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I share that to say, I do think there's a real way that something comes into our attention and then it'll like keep coming into our attention, whether that's like the actual like organic algorithm of the field or it's the meta algorithm or whatever.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think that they mirror each other in certain ways.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that is part of it.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, what I'm always doing too is I'm looking for patterns, right?
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_00: We love to recognize patterns.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_00: So anytime I notice something coming up more than once, I'm like, oh, there's something for me here.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_00: What is it?
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't even need to know exactly what it is in that moment, but I'll put that like thing out into the universe of okay, what is it?
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then usually I'll see what it is at some point.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one thing that occurs to me is I think that maybe you notice that Brene Brown thing because of the next thing that was coming up.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that you might have seen that Brene Brown thing because the next thing was coming that you were going to see that was going to be that AI thing, which again, I don't even know.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think maybe that came into our awareness too, to kind of like bring up this question of what is the place of discernment around all this stuff?
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because literally now we're getting to this point where anything could be fake or real.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_00: I actually saw somewhere, I can't remember, somewhere I saw this theory that people might at some point soon retract from the internet because of that reason, because there's so much that's not real about it that people will be getting like over it, which I don't know if that necessarily will happen, maybe or maybe in a different way.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_00: It definitely makes sense.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, but I think it really kind of like escalates that question, not only just of people who we see who were like we don't resonate with them or we do, but also to the point of is there certain things out there where it's is this even real?
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just interesting that she was talking about that.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what to make of that, to be honest with you.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Other than it's algorithm, the algorithm, good or bad.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_01: I gotta say this.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Say it.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, when I was experiencing that first the real with Brene, thinking, oh no, maybe she's shifted, and then this thing comes in and it's exactly what we're talking about.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it was almost like a it felt in some ways like a nod from the algorithm that it's hearing us.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_01: I know that sounds so matrix-y, but there is part of me that really did feel that way.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm at a place where I don't think that there are too many random things that happen in my life at this point.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_01: I really don't.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't and I think that I do a disservice to myself if I make that into some kind of random event and it didn't mean anything.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I I just have to take that, you know, not seriously, like, oh my God, they're they're watching, but I did feel like it was a nod to what we're talking about, and that it came from somebody who I've had a mixed opinion of throughout my career.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it also got me thinking about something else.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Do we have one more time for one more thing?
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_01: So here's what I've been thinking about is that there are a group of women thought leaders in the personal development space more broadly.
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I suppose some of them toe the line with the spiritual development space.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to name them because I have this, again, just like with Brene, I have this sort of mixed opinion of or experience with.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what I know as somebody who has studied intelligence and gifted and talented women for my entire career.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_01: I know that each of these, whether it's Brene or Glenn Doyle or Glennon's wife Abby Wombatch or Jen Hatmaker, all of these women are very, very bright.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_01: And they in our space have they got huge followings of people, including me.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_01: I follow them, I watch what they're doing, I study what they're doing.
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_01: And part of the question I'm asking is how are they doing it?
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on?
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_01: That they have these huge audiences.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_01: And we know that there's a lot that we won't ever know about that.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_01: But here's the thing that a pattern that I've noticed in them, and I don't know about with Jen Hatmaker, but I know with the other three that I mentioned, Brene, Glennon, and Abby, is that they all have a past history of addiction.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think primarily alcohol, but I might be, there might be more than that.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_01: They have this recovery from alcohol abuse, and that becomes a major part of their story.
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it makes them very relatable to these wide swaths of people, mostly women, I would say.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been thinking a lot about that from the perspective of somebody who I'm a leader.
• 1:13:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I have my business.
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things I had a client say this to me recently who's in my C-suite.
• 1:14:02
  SPEAKER_01: She said, I just don't think my story is bad enough.
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_01: To be able to really stand out as a leader in this space.
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_01: And she gave a couple of examples early on, Debbie Ford or Melody Beatty, or any of those people who came in early into this the spiritual slash personal development space, had these really bad things happen to them.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then on the other side, they would tell their stories and give their experience, their their hope and their inspiration to other people through their books and podcasts and whatever.
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_01: So the thing I've been thinking about, and I'd love to hear what your take is on this, is using our trauma, using our backstory as kind of the linchpin in the performance in order to get attention or in order to build community.
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not even sure.
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't have any judgments about it.
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just looking at it as yeah, like a pattern.
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_01: What is your take on that?
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that the hero's journey, so to speak, is very like marketable, you know.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I think from that regard, it's highly marketable.
• 1:15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's something that if you started from this, you know, place of despair and have ended up here, that's something that that can be leveraged to create a big group of people who resonate with it, or it's like a movie, like it reminds me of a movie.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like why movies are so compelling is like the story arc and the drama and the transformation.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that with people like that, I think it's it's sellable.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think from whatever degree that people invest in somebody like that to have them be marketable and profitable, I think from that lens, a story like that is more profitable.
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_01: I look at like our friend Nicole Shrihas as an example, or one of my favorite copywriters is Kylie Slavik.
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_01: They have histories as well.
• 1:16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Nicole's got a book coming out that is it's fiction, but it's definitely got a flavor of her own experiences.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_01: So what I've been doing is just a compare and contrast between that Nicole, who has an exceptional business, she's done really well in her life.
• 1:16:24
  SPEAKER_01: She was an elite gymnast before anything else.
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then how is she different from this other group of people who are out there selling the same thing?
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, when I do my copywriting, I keep in mind the hero's journey, of course.
• 1:16:38
  SPEAKER_01: There is something to that, but the hero's journey is always the call to adventure.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the call to reveal trauma.
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think about, although obviously trauma can happen in the middle of the hero's journey for sure, when you meet the dragons, you're gonna probably get a couple of burn marks from the fire.
• 1:16:55
  SPEAKER_01: But what I look at also is that rags to riches story.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Tony Robbins has a rags to riches.
• 1:17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Even Betty had a rags to riches story.
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_01: I also look at that.
• 1:17:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just in that, in this place of really trying to do a deep dive into understanding what that pattern is and as much as possible, avoiding the performance, avoiding it as performance.
• 1:17:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's the thing that I've come away with at my study on this, in addition to this, this feeling that there are probably some people who are made for the masses.
• 1:17:29
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 1:17:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then there are those of us, like my client who said she doesn't feel like her story is bad enough.
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm using air quotes around bad enough.
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_01: And there are some of us who aren't made for the masses.
• 1:17:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that when we get into that comparison, that's where we can get into the into trouble of I should do things in a certain way so that I can have this perceived success that somebody else, like Brene Brown, has when we're not even here for the same mission.
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:17:54
  SPEAKER_00: I agree with that.
• 1:17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 1:17:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's something that a lot of people can do because they're just looking at, okay, well, if I want to be successful, here's what I should do.
• 1:18:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's such a trap because that doesn't mean that that is what you should do.
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's no formula.
• 1:18:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's literally just you have to figure out how you're going to do it and what makes sense for you.
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, there's no, you don't know if that is what is meant for you anyway.
• 1:18:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think it is what is meant for a lot of people.
• 1:18:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's important to again go back to your intuition and what you know to be true and what you feel is right.
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, and I don't, I think there's a lot of patterns that we can see between all of those people.
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time, I think there's some element to it that is random and is like one of those things that I think I said this before, somewhere around like the trap of trying to figure it out.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Trying to figure it out and study people from the outside looking in, and you just don't know.
• 1:18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:18:59
  SPEAKER_01: And we can make up stories about who's owned and who's not owned and who's being puppeted and who's not, and all of those things, and that maybe we'll have a conversation about that at some point.
• 1:19:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that from where I'm sitting and with the the women who come in and work with me in the C-suite or developing their premium offers or whatever, it really is like honing in on your own stuff and as much as possible to get back to the algorithm, keeping the algorithm out of your out of your space and just doing the thing that you know that you're here to do and let Brene do her thing and let Abby do her.
• 1:19:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that's I think that's what my big lesson is because for a long time I look at people like that and I think, what are they doing that I'm not doing?
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't make sense.
• 1:19:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's like nothing because you're doing what you're supposed to be doing.
• 1:19:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that is so important.
• 1:19:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's just something to remember.
• 1:19:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's no formula, there's no template, and you can't really make that comparison.
• 1:20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you can't.
• 1:20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this has been so delightful.
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like now there's so many things.
• 1:20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we'll get into on our next episode.
• 1:20:11
  SPEAKER_00: But so just so for everyone knows, these are gonna be monthly things, and soon we'll know what we're gonna call it.
• 1:20:18
  SPEAKER_01: This is why we can't have nice things.
• 1:20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Or don't let them.
• 1:20:26
  SPEAKER_01: At any rate, we're gonna be talking about the things that we think are really dumb, and we're gonna talk about them in a professional way, sort of.
• 1:20:34
  SPEAKER_00: And just things that we think are interesting and our perspectives on things that are happening.
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_01: I have to tell you, I asked Chat GPT, I said, I know that if I were a character, I would be Phoebe Buffet.
• 1:20:45
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Who would Elise be?
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Immediately it came back with Elaine from Seinfeld.
• 1:20:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then I validated it.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_01: I said to my husband, I said, if I'm Phoebe Buffet, who is Elise?
• 1:20:58
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Elaine.
• 1:20:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how to feel about this, but I think I'm just gonna take it as a compliment.
• 1:21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Elaine dances.
• 1:21:05
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 1:21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the funny thing is, my husband always says that I dance like Elaine.
• 1:21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there you go.
• 1:21:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we already had that going on.
• 1:21:13
  SPEAKER_01: We've got complete human validation.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then Phoebe, have you ever seen that episode of Phoebe where she's running and she runs in the most I'm a runner and I would never, but Phoebe is just like this joyful and stupid runner.
• 1:21:26
  SPEAKER_01: I would never do that, but I will sing smelly cat from time to time.
• 1:21:30
  SPEAKER_00: No, you're a much better runner than Phoebe.
• 1:21:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm way better at running than Phoebe.
• 1:21:34
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, until next time, thanks for joining us, everybody.
• 1:21:38
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll see you next time.
• 1:21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Elaine.
• 1:21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 1:21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 1:21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for being here.
• 1:21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to follow the show on Apple or Spotify.
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Leave a review and share the show with your friends who you know are yearning for this type of content.
• 1:21:56
  SPEAKER_00: When you leave a review, send us a screenshot and we'll send you a$250 credit that you can apply to joining anything new in my world.
• 1:22:04
  SPEAKER_00: You can stay connected with me by following me on Instagram at Elise underscore breeds.
• 1:22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you download my Clear Trauma Cheat Sheet at elisebreeds.com.
• 1:22:12
  SPEAKER_00: See you next time.