Latest / ChangeMakers with Katie Goar / Episode 134: Scott Bader, President, Door County Housing Partnership

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Episode 134: Scott Bader, President, Door County Housing Partnership · ChangeMakers with Katie Goar

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: This is change Makers with Katie Gore finding the right
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: solutions for the affordable housing community.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Today's change Maker is Scott Batter, who has spent more
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: than forty years in real estate and now he's leading
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: the Door County Housing Partnership to tackle some of the
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: community's biggest housing challenges. Under his leadership, the organization has
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: created permanent affordable housing specifically for the local workforce and
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: helping families put down roots and strengthen the community's future. Scott,
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the change Makers podcast.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you for having me here.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: I have a series of things that I want to
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: talk with you about today. Specifically we want to talk
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: about Door County. But before we get into that, it's
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: an honor to have you here. You've got nearly four
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: decades in real estate, and I would be remiss if
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: I didn't first start to ask you about some of
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: that prior to Dorik County experience. So could you share
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: how that evolution happened and then what brought you into
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: your current role.
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: Well, I started in eighty five, obviously, and I was
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: primarily Dork County is a vacation area for the most part.
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: They call it the Cape cod of the Midwest. We
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: call Cape Cod the door county of the East. So
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: my primary job when I first started was just selling
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: second homes or vacation homes. That transformed things went on.
• 1:41
  Speaker 4: I ended up buying a company out and everything. We
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: bought another office down in the big city of Sturgeon
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: May ten nine thousand people, and then I ended up
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: selling it and then kind of it's progressed into selling more.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: In addition some a.
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: Lot of prime residencies as well. Our market went crazy.
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: We always had a bit of a shortage with workforce
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: housing and Sturgeon Bay, which was a city, like I said,
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: just under ten thousand, you could always buy an affordable
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: house there fifty sixty thousand dollars. That started to change
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: when the market really started to.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: Pick up in twenty eighteen twenty nineteen.
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: People started buying those up then for vacation rentals, and
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: then twenty twenty things just went crazy. The market I
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: had never seen before. And prior to that, maybe twenty ten,
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: they started doing some studies about where people that live
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: here and work here, where they're supposed to live, because
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: there was we were running out of that, and they
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: did they were going to do the third or fourth
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: study which I was involved with, and I complained that
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: we don't need another study. We know what the problem is.
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: We need workforce housing. And I made the mistake of
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: saying that to my friend Mariah Good, who said, well,
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: we just started this partnership called Dork County Housing Partnership.
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: This is I don't know, twenty twenty one, and they
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: started it in twenty nineteen, and we would love to
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: have you on the board.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: So I met with them and everything went through.
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: The whole thing, and next thing I know, now I'm president,
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: but I'd be remissing saying letting you say that under
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: my leadership all this has happened. It's Mariah, it's Jim Honig.
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: There's a whole bunch of other people that started this
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: great partnership.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: Some of them are on the board anymore.
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: But we keep going forward and I could not do
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: it without everybody else.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: It's not just meet by any peace.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: So Door County, you're how big is it? Tell us
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: a little bit about the county itself? Where you are
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: how many people? You mentioned Sturgeon Bay, What else about
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Door County?
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: Well, like I said, we're primarily second home, especially in
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: North Indoor County.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: So our populations are not they're not big in the summer.
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: They are, but not year round or any means or
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: people don't live here year round as much as they
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: just it's a second home for a lot of people.
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: We have got more miles of shoreline than any other
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: county in the nation.
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: I believe.
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: We've got Lake Michigan on one side, We've got Green
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: Bay on the other, got several islands out there.
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: It's a gorgeous place. I moved up here.
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: From Central Illinois in eighty three for one summer and
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: I haven't left. But it's a beautiful place. It's a
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: lot of people have found out about it now and
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: especially during COVID, and that has really driven our workforce
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: housing crisis to even higher levels.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: So being a kind of a tourist destination's second home
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: market and your mission then is to increase workforce housing
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: and affordable housing. How are you guys going about that?
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: What types of initiatives are you doing, and how are
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: you tackling that problem?
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: Well, we do it.
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: It's a thing called a community land Trust, and that's
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: there's several going up. There's several in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. A
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: bunch of Madison, there's a bunch of Minnesota, and throughout
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: the country down Georgia's got some.
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: I think New York is getting some.
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: And what it is is we buy the land, or
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: we get the land donated to us, and we retain
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: ownership to the land. So there's a ninety nine year
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: lease that go and in that lease there's all documents
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: that say I'm just going to do average formulas and
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: things like this. The person that's going to buy it
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: can only make X amount of dollars once you buy it.
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: Appreciation can only go up one percent a year roughly.
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: So that ensures that it's going to remain work for
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: housing because you know, I can get a really affordable house,
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: but then I could turn around to sell it and
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: make a big profit. Well, then it's the longer workforce housing.
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: So they still own the house. They have exclusive rights
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: to the land, to use the land and everything. We
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: then either build the house in partnership with Habitat, or
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: we our next build that we're under construction right now
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: that's almost done or is going to be done in November.
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: I believe that we're hiring a pirate private contractor. We
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: then subsidize about fifty percent of the cost.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: So if the house costs.
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: And that's the other problem is the housing costs are
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: going up a lot. But if the house costs does,
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: say two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to build, we
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: subsidize one hundred and twenty five. So they're buying a
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: house for one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars. They
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: have to get a mortgage for that, and there are
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: lenders out there that will do that and then it's
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: their house.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: So with this ninety nine year lease model, what would
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: be the ultimate goal for you guys as an organization
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: to produce so many units or to have a certain
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: portfolio in certain neighborhoods, Like, how are you using that
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: particular model as far as your long term strategic goals?
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: Well, we would like to have as many of these
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: houses as possible, and these are not this is not
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: affordable housing. And we just had a house dedication and
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: it was great to have three of the news networks
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: from Green Bay there that we could actually show people
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: what these houses were. They're nice houses. They're small, but
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: they're really nice three hundred thousand dollars houses roughly, but
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: our goal is to just keep as many of those
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: as we possibly can. Unfortunately, our model right now is
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: we need to have sewer and water at the curb.
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: And there's only two places indoor counting. One is Sister Bay,
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: the other Sturge Debate that actually has that. That's so
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: we can keep it affordable. This was this will be
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: our best year ever with three houses. I believe possibly
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: a fourth, but that and it's it is slow going
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: because it's all we apply for grants, We do fundraising constantly,
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: and without that, I mean we don't have a steady
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: stream of income I guess with without going out and
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: doing their ask and everything.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. So what do you hear when you go
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: out to your donor base or you go out to
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: places that you're applying for grants? Do you hear you
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: know that? I mean, like, are you hearing like, Okay,
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: we'd love to help you, but dot dot dot or
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: how are you piecing all those together when you go
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: out and start applying for this grants or start trying
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: to listed donors.
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean one of the main things from our
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: manufacturing base, you know, they're the ones that really need
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: these too, and they're like building one house or two
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: houses a year is not going to fix the problem.
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: And the response is, you're right, it's not. We need
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: more money, and if it takes one house at a time,
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: so be it that we preferred. We could be building
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: a lot more per year. The other is that they
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: don't want to. One of the objections was they didn't
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: want to you take away from Habitat for Humanity, which
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: that's completely false because their buyer does not meet our
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: income requirements. Our buyer does not meet their income requirements.
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: So we actually work together and we have actually given
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: land to the Habitat Local Habitat Chapter here and they've
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: built one of their houses on our land. So again
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: that will remain workforce housing forever.
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: But it's a habitat house.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: And when you say that you buyers don't meet their criteria,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: explain some about who your types of buyers. Your ideal
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: buyer is.
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: I guess it would be a nurse, maybe even teacher,
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: even some of the works in the in the trades.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: Our most recent house, she's a.
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: Service industry worker and he works for the garbage company
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: up here. The prior ones to that, she ran North
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: Indoor County Daycare Center, which that's that's how we got
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: one of the grants up in Sister Bay to buy
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: all this land from the state was they wanted something
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: that would be in conjunction with also solving the daycare crisis,
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: which we also have up here too. Our last two
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: down is Sturgeon Bay. She worked actually managing second home rentals.
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: She had two kids, and the other woman worked at
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: one of the local manufacturing companies and she also has
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: two kids too.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: We've had a couple other guests on the podcast, one
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: from Vermont and one from Steamboat Springs, and both of
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: them had that same type of tourist economy, but they
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: were struggling with people to be able to work the jobs,
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: and they in one particular case, they had a lot
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: of high turnover because people were having to commute so
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: far because they had to live out so far because
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: to be able to try to afford the rents. And
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: the communities got really creative and said, you know, we
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: want to be able to have people who can work
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: the jobs for the ski industry and so forth, and
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: so they were trying to find the land to be
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: able to build and they had a really creative model
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: to do that. I see some parallels with what you're
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: describing too and what's happening in the community. Ideally, how
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: many houses would you like to be able to build
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: per year to meet some of your demand in Door County.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: Well, it's not going to be.
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: Just us for sure, because that would take a lot more.
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: But I mean, ideally it'd be ten a year.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, that's difficult on several fronts. One, getting the builders.
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: The last two houses we did habitat did not have
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: any builds for them their houses, so their volunteer builders
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: built our houses for We had to pay for all
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: the materials and everything, but we had free labor basically,
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: and that was amazing. But we can't do that with
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: ten houses a year. I mean, that's We've looked into prefabs,
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: We've looked into modular homes and things like that, and
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: it's just it certainly appears the best way to do
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: it is the way we're doing it, but unfortunately that
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: takes a while.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Not who are your primary donors? Are they private individuals
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: or are they companies, or are they just locals or
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: are they national? But now going too far into the
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: the secrets of the of the nonprofit.
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: We're all yeah, well it's there's a lot of nonprofits
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: up here, so it's no secret there are some real
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: major donors. Door County Community Foundation is a foundation that
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: is they will collect funds from other donors and put
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: them together. Then they can distribute some of the money
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: or if they're there, it's a donor directed fund. So
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: we do get a you know, some money from them,
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: just private donors primarily. We do also do get substantial
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: donations from the manufacturing companies up here, the hospital and
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: things like that.
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: M H.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: If you were going to plot out where you wanted
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: the Door County Housing Partnership to be in the next
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: five and ten years, how could you predict what kind
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: of future you would want it to look like.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: Well, we're going to need.
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: More land, and I think what we would also like
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: to see is if we could be.
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: If there was something that we could do in conjunction with.
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: Government, not the government's running the show, but that they
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: realize that there's a crisis and right now, I mean
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: the state has given us money to buy land and
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: Sister Bay, the village's Sister Bay had for a closed
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: outs of land. They gave us a really great deal.
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: It provided it would be workforce housing. The city of
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: Sturge de Bay has given us some ones that they
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: in the County of Door County is giving us some
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: land from tax sales.
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: Too as well.
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: But we're we've got let's see, five lots left in
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: Sister Bay and another four I think in five and
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: Sturgeon Bay, so that's only ten and.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: We're gonna need more land. I mean clean and simple, mh.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: So walk us through when you move a person into
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: one of these houses. A lot of people are familiar
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: with the habitat process, but talk to us about your
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: process and what it's like. When somebody moves in.
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: Well, they typically will work with that buyer. When we
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: select the buyer, we've got a pretty good waiting list.
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: We will sit down with them with the builder and
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: everything else, and they can pick out some things too
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: and if they wanted. Like one woman, her dad was
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: a painter, so they did all the painting and everything
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: and they were able to custom paint the inside of
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: the house and things like that. Once everything is done
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: or done enough that they can move in, like we've
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: closed in February, where the landscaping's not done, then obviously.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: They move in.
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: You usually will try to have an open house or
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: a little get together, which we just did on our
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: last house and Sister Bay last week actually, and a
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: little celebration and things like that.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: And then once.
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: They move in it, like I say, it's there's there's
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: you know, some little hiccups that will come up to
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: what about some requirements about trees or something like that,
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: and what about the landscaping? Ho come that's not done
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: and things like that, But it's it's all good. Everybody
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: seems it's a it's a really happy celebration.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: It really is.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: And do you hear testimonials I'm sure you do about
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: how people's lives changed once they moved into this property.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: Well, I think it's just moving into the property right
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: off the bat.
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: They say that their life has changed, and how that
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: they never thought they'd be able to own a house
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: up here, and even with because there are apartments up
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: here that mostly down Sturgeon Bay, but even those are
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: getting so expensive that and you just have an apartment
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: though they are nice apartments and everything, But now you've
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: got a three about and two bath house with a
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: two car garage, with your own yard and everything else
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: for the kids to play in.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we just don't.
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: It's a very difficult dream to achieve for a first
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: time home buyer up here, it's almost impossible. And that's
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: why actually I got involved originally was because I didn't
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: create this crazy market up here. You know, it just
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: it happened. But I certainly benefited from it. And that's
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: when we started getting involved. And I'm like, I don't
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: know that I really want to get involved with another
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: nonprofit because it does take a lot of time. And
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: my wife, Heidi said, I think you really should do
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: this because you know, we've we've certainly benefited from this
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: crazy market.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: And she was right, as she usually is.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: When I'm one of life's lessons. You're like, you've already
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: realized that life lesson. Excellent job, So talk to me
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: about the team that you have helping you do this.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: You mentioned them in the beginning that there were several
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: people in your board that were helping you along the way.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Ribe what kind of team you have there to help you.
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: We have got a former county planner, We've got an
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: active attorney, we've got a retired attorney, got a banker,
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: you've got an innkeeper, we've got a developer of.
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: Low income housing.
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: We have a retired banker, and we had Jim Honik
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: who was one of the founding members.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: He was he was a pastor.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: A very good blend of people from a bunch of
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: professions doing what you're doing, taking your expertise and your
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: lessons learned, like we said, and trying to create solutions.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Do you think your model being this partnership and this
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: ninety nine year lease model, do you think this is
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: something that other communities could adopt and move forward?
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: Oh, they already are, and that's we adopted it from.
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: And I would ask to ask Mariah about that. She's
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: she's got all the historical information up here. But yes, there,
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: it's it's it's really it's going full force. Now you're
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: going to hear a lot more about community land trusts
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: or colts.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: And is there something that you guys wish looking back
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: on your history now that you would have incorporated or
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: maybe done differently when you when you first were starting out.
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: Well, it's been it's always evolving because we realize one
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: thing when we go through the qualifying things or something
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: like that, Oh, so we really shouldn't do that.
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: Or this would be better that way. We're constantly.
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: Going over what I would have if I would have
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: had to say in it, and it would have worked
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: out to me.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: Also, having a multi family.
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: Meets our whole with the you know, owning the land
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: because of condominium no one individual owns that land, and
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: if you could have like townhouses or something like that,
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: you're going to get a lot more dollar per square
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: foot with multifamily. And I think and we are still
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: looking into that, because we do have enough property that
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: we could probably build a four unit or something like that.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: And multifamily is interesting because it exposes it so a
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: little bit to changing the dynamics and the community unless
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: you can definitely point to other pieces. But there's also,
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: like you mentioned, a great maximizing impact to what you're
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: doing and it's a really good use of the natural
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: resources the land. Quite frankly too. Previously we've talked with
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: somebody from the Raleigh Land Bank in Raleigh, North Carolina,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: and their market has really really changed in the last
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: eight to ten years as well. So it seems that
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: you're creating a solution for the these markets that are
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: rapidly changing. If you can get get in front of
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: some of this dynamic. Is that is that kind of
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: a fair strategy to think about when communities are saying,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: you know, do we need to do this, is that
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: something that they should incorporate on assessing whether this model
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: is good for them.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: Yes, And I think most of the places I've seen,
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: and it's not just vacation areas, but that's you know Naples,
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: you mentioned Steamboat Springs, they've all got those problems. And
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: I actually heard it wasn't on your podcast, it was
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: a local podcast here. That's a woman from Steamboat Springs.
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: There was probably the same woman that she was comparing
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: Steamboat Springs to Dore County and it was a really
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: fair assessment. Yeah, I think they should all look into
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: that because now, okay, you're from a big city. I
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: was from Peoria, Illinois, which one hundred thousand people. Caterpillar
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: was the main driver there. Plenty of housing never never
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: was the short is never an issue. But you never
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: had people coming there trying to buy second homes there
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: anything like that that would take away those houses where
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: we do, and I think a lot of other resort
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: areas do as well.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: It has been a pleasure having you here, Scott and
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: really bringing a new community and the dynamics and how
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: you guys are trying to solve some of that housing
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: crisis up there, So we appreciate the time and what
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: you're doing. So we trust that you'll start having the
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: tens and the twenties that you'll be able to build
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: here over the next over the next few years. So
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: good luck Scott to you and your team.
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: Well, thank you, Katy, and thanks for sharing the spotlight
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: on this too for all you do appreciate that.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to change Makers with Katie Gore. To
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: find out more about Katie, go to quadel dot com.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: That's qu ad e lt com. This has been a
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: production of Forbes Books radioh