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Clement Teaches PSA - Clement Part 2 · The Reformed Corner

• Quentin James: This episode of the Reformed Corner Podcast is brought to you by Squirrelly Joe's Coffee. Stop funding anti Christian agendas with your coffee habit. Every dollar you spend on coffee is a vote for what you value. Instead, choose coffee roasted by believers who share your convictions. Hello everybody, welcome back to the Reformed Corner Podcast. I am your host, Quentin James, joined with Elijah King. Joined by I'm is it prepositions? I don't know. I think it's prepositions. Prepositions. Grammar, not my thing. Not my thing. I was public schooled. I didn't pay attention. And I'm having to learn all this stuff now. And that's kind of what we're trying to help you guys do, not with English grammar, but with church history. Yes. so this is the Reformed Corner podcast. And our goal here is to is to show you guys that reform theology, Protestantism generally, is actually in stream i in the same tradition as Christian. This is terrible. This is terrible. We can do yeah, we're in the same stream as the church fathers. Yeah. when the when our when the reformers are contesting with Rome what are they using? They're using the scriptures. And they're using the church fathers. Yeah. Because it turns out that Rome does not have a monolith of church fathers that all believe the same things that they teach. Yeah. so when we look at the apostolic faith, it is not univocal at all. however, it is supplementary to scripture. And that's how we should use it. Right. And if you look at any writings from the fathers, you're going to find lots of things that are contained in canonized saints that are out of step with modern Catholicism, modern orthodoxy. Yeah. And I think Protestantism is the only method that can actually harmonize all of that because we can say that the church is not infallible. Yeah. And it's it honestly is a good view to take that you can just you can go through the Church Fathers and you can see where they align with scripture and where they don't align with Scripture. Right. And so we're not saying I disagree with Clement, therefore he's wrong. It's rather Clement is saying something that the Scripture does not teach, or he's saying something contrary to Scripture, which incidentally does not happen in Clement. No, Clement is fantastic. Yeah, Clement is fantastic. He is in accord with Scripture basically the whole way through. and so Clement is right in everything that he says, but we know that he's right because he agrees with the scripture. Yes, you can't disagree with scripture and also be right. Right. That the scripture is the standard. It is the test of truth. And so if you disagree with the truth, you're wrong. Yeah, you're you're just wrong. Yeah. So how how do you respond to the guy who says, Well, that's y you're you're saying that he disagrees with your interpretation of scripture? I would s actually just listening to the other Paul talking about Cleve to Antiquities Post. well I I'm sorry, I I need an inf I need an infallible interpreter to interpret what you just said to me. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You you end up in an infinite regression of infallible interpretation. Right. so the cool part about scripture is that the authority claim is that because it is God breathed, it is inerrant. It is true. And therefore what you understand from it is binding. Yeah. So it's not guaranteeing that everyone is going to interpret the scripture the same way. And I I don't think we should expect it. I mean, we're all individuals, we're all full of sin. So we're going to obviously interpret things differently. Would you say that this is a a category error or a category shifting? absolutely. The question of whether or not scripture is the norm that norms all norms, and then how do we actually interpret that are two different discussions. Yeah. Those are two different questions, and you don't like my interpretation of scripture, and so you're saying that. I think my interpretation is scripture. It's like, no, this is how I understand scripture, but the standard is not my understanding of it. The standard is the book itself. Yeah. And so when scripture makes a declaration or it interprets itself. So an example would be in Jude. Jude says that Jesus is Yahweh who led his people out of Egypt. Yeah. That is an infallible interpretation. You cannot disagree with that. Right. However, there are other things that come up in scripture where it's like, okay, how do we commune people? Yeah. And because we are reformed Christians, we say that you can use due use of means, which is your knowledge, which is your brain, to say, hey, there's neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, in Christ. And so you even though we don't have an example of women receiving communion, we believe they still can. Yeah. So if you're a solo or solely or A nuda scriptura kind of guy where all you have is the Bible and if it's not explicitly described in the Bible, you cannot do it. you shouldn't commune women. Right. Yeah, that that that is imminently reasonable because that is what this bastardization of solo scriptura yes ultimately leads to. And yeah, I'm looking at you, Baptists. This is your fault. Right here. No, it's second grade awakening's fault. We can always blame the Baptists. Always blame the Baptists. Of course. Of course. Now we are gonna be jumping into the rest of Clement, as at least as far as we can get this evening. Last time we went from chapters one through sixteen, we talked about how Clement was written by Clement. This w this is the first Clement. was written by the bishop or the presbyter of the church in Rome. He was Roman Catholics would say he was the fourth Pope. Fourth Pope, yep. So after Pope Peter generally. Yeah, but he was basically an elder and a an overseer of the church in Rome and he was seeing that there are some problems at the Corinthian church. Paul had written some letters to him and they did not listen and Clement is Well I'm gonna push back there. They did listen for a little bit for we see that Clement says hey you guys were doing so many good things. Yes And then they fall into sin. But they did not ultimately listen. No they i they do backslide and that's what Clement is writing to correct them for. and we do know historically they did not fully listen to Clement either. And the Corinthian church no longer exists. It has been its lampstand has been removed. Yeah. but that's what the first letter of Clement is about. It is him addressing the issues in Corinth. Yeah, and specifically the issue in Corinth is that There have been individuals in the church who have rebelled and they have cast off their rightful right presbyters and overseers. Right. Yeah, we had talked a little bit last time about the the super apostles that Paul mentions and I think it's second Corinthians. Yeah. And it seems like they have kind of taken over the church. Yeah. So that's that's where we're at. That's where we're gonna be tonight. And I am gonna go ahead and light up my pipe. I've got My Peterson three fourteen again. fancy. Filled with the Nutty Irishman, which has I think become my favorite tobacco. It is my favorite to be in the room with because when you smoke it you don't have the same not as not as pleasant of a a flavor or a smell as when someone else is doing it. When you did it the other night, I think it was last week you you did the Nutty Irishman as well, and that was the first time I really noticed. Wow, this smells good. so that's what I've got and I know you've you've filled yours with Westminster. Yes, yes, 'cause I am a reformed Presbyterian, so I will be smoking the Westminster. That's right. Okay, so I'm gonna go ahead and light mine while you start reading some of chapter sixteen. Yeah. and also I'm gonna be sipping on some high west I think it was high west yeah bourbon. I think it's high west. which is kind of fitting seeing as how when we're recording this it is Relating into Fourth of July. So honoring the American tradition. Yeah. It's good. Nothing like being a gun totin, whiskey drinking, pope pipe smoking pope smoking too. All right. yeah, let's go ahead and get into Clemens starting in chapter sixteen. Yeah, so sixteen, we get into examples of humility. So I'll just start reading and he talks about Isaiah fifty three a little bit. So we're Presbyterians, we believe in penal substitutionary atonement. We're gonna talk about it. So for Christ is of those who are humble minded, not of those who exalt themselves over his flock. Pope. Sorry. the scepter of the majesty of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, did not come with the pomp of arrogance or pride, although he could have, but with humble mindedness, just as the Holy Spirit spoke concerning him. For it says, O Lord, who has believed our report and who has revealed the arm of the Lord? We announced before him as a child, as a root in parched ground, there is no form or glory in him, and we saw him, and he had neither form nor beauty, but his form was dishonored, inferior to the form of people, being a person among wounds and pain, and knowing how to bear weakness, for his face was turned away. He was dishonored and not credited. This one bears our sins and suffers pains for us. And we regarded him as being in pain and in torment and in affliction. But he was wounded for our sins, and he was made to suffer for our transgressions. The punishment of our peace was upon him. By his wounds we were healed. We all wandered about like sheep. Each one wandered about in his own way, and the Lord delivered him up for our sin, and he, due to his affliction, remained silent. Like a sheep he was brought to slaughter. And like a lamb silent before his shearers, so he remains silent. In his humiliation his justice was denied. Who can who shall describe his generation? For his life is taken away from the earth. For the transgressions of my people he entered into death, and I will give the wicked for his burial, and the wealthy for his death. For he did not commit any transgression, and deceit was not found in his speech, and the Lord desires to purify him from his wounds. If you make an offering for your for sin, your soul will say a long lived posterity, and the Lord desires to take away from the pain of his soul, to show him light and to form him with understanding, to justify a righteous one who may serve many who serves many well, and he himself will bear their sins. Because of this he will inherit many, and he will share the spoils of the strong, because his soul was delivered to death, and he was counted among the lawless. And he himself bore the sins of many, and because of their sins he was delivered up. And again he's he himself says, But I myself am a worm, and not a man, a reproach of people and despised of the people. All who saw me r rid ridiculed me. They spoke with their lips, they shook their heads. He hoped upon the Lord. Let the Lord deliver him, let the Lord save him, for the Lord takes pleasure in him. You see, beloved people, what is the example which is given to us? For if the Lord was thus humble minded, what should we do who ha who through him have come under the yoke of his grace? Yeah. He's so good. That's beautiful stuff. It's what is that like ninety percent is Isaiah fifty-three. Yep. A little bit there from Psalm twenty-two. Mm-hmm. And then his own little bit there at the end. What is the example given to us? Yeah. And last time we had talked about how he is so thoroughly entrenched in scripture. most of the chapters in Clement are containing portions or significant portions of scripture as we just read here. Yeah, he knows the Old Testament like the back of his hand. so when we look at how he's using this, he is showing his people, well, the people in Corinth, hey, look to Christ. Look at what he did for you. Like a good pastor. Yeah, of course. Pointing them to Christ. As all things should be. You know, it's To the glory of God. Right. By Christ alone. And here he's particularly doing it as an example, and we had teased at the end last week that we're gonna be talking about PSA, and that's huge in this section because he's citing Isaiah fifty-three. Yes. But his main reasoning here is if Christ did all of this and he did it in a humble way, for if the Lord was thus humble minded, what shall we do? Yes. If Christ was humble, why in the world are we boasting? Yes. And it it reminds me of Paul, who says, I you know, I do nothing of myself but boast of Christ. Absolutely paraphrase there. But it is it is amazing to me because he when Clement is talking about this, when he points to humility, it is specifically to how Christ. For our sins. Yeah. This is why I wanted to talk about PSA. because right now there's a whole kerfuffle online about public service and a p a penal substitutionary atonement. Have you heard about people who say that when Christ died it was a public service announcement? Like it's just yes. yes, the big billboard of all you should do is love people. that's what they mean by PSA. But what we mean is penal substitutionary atonement. Yeah. What is that? And why does it have such a long name? So penal substitutionary atonement is an umbrella term. Okay. so understood properly, it is that the father gives his people i gives a people to the son, and the son redeems those people, and the spirit effects that redemption. Okay. so we're gonna start there because if we understand if we understand PSA in a way that s divides the Trinity or separates the love the Father has for the Son, right, that is heresy, absolute heresy. You you should not divide the Trinity, that's partialism. Yeah. Just two weeks ago Pastor Jeff talked about how deep the father's love for us and that line the father turns his face away. And just we need to be very careful when we say that and how we're understanding what that means. Yes. Because there is not an actual break or rift or or a a literal turning away of the father. No. there is still perfect union in the Trinity. Yes. there is so this was something that like Calvin, Turt, and Hodge are very specific on is that the the father's love for the son continues. Always. Always. And that the Son has knowledge, perfect knowledge, of his resurrection. so there is no split in the Trinity. Yes. when we say PSA, we say that there is a plan in place that the Trinity is united upon and that affects the elect. Right. So Okay. So I wanted to start there because a lot of people Because of the Baptists, say that the say in such a way that the re that God was angry at his son and that he essentially that the father has this anger towards all the people of the world. And so he needs to essentially just punch it out. Yeah. And that the son is that punching bag. Mhm. And that is not what we are saying. Right. Well and you know I I love sprawl. Of course. But Sproull has a famous saying where he he got him into hot water because he said that on the cross it is as though the father said to the son, God damn you. Yeah, that's heresy, bro. because he's not he's not saying God damn you to Christ. Mm-hmm. He's saying it to Christ as our substitute in the sense that he's saying it to us through him. But Well no, that's not right either because it doesn't come to us. No, no. so this is where I'm gonna plug a book. I totally just hit the mic here, but Again, we're professionals here. Absolute professionals. So this is he bore our punishment. It's by Eric Ibarra. He is a Catholic scholar. He is not I think he used to be Protestant and now he's Catholic. But this goes through penal substitution and the church fathers and all the way to today. Yeah. So he makes very careful definitions in it about how we're supposed to understand. Mm-hmm. so this is one of those things we're all just crazy, but I'm gonna submit to his understanding here because he does a very good job of distinguishing things. Okay. Because he's just pointing at the church fathers. But I thought you were your own pope as a Protestant. You know, I have thought about that and I realize I'm not the smartest guy. What? I know. I thought everybody thinks that they're the smartest person. You know, that little charism of just perfect perf perception of self was not granted me. Okay. Yeah. That grace has not been given to me. Well, I mean if I were you I wouldn't think I was the smartest guy around you. Harsh. But yeah, let's let's get into it a little bit. So I'm just gonna read this here. So this is a very basic description. here. Okay. I can find it here. I'm not cutting this out. I know. We're just gonna sit here. We were gonna have radio silence. It's gonna be great. It's gonna be great. I should I thought I'd put it in here. Okay, so this is from the British Catholic Benedictine monk, Dom Bernard Orchard, this is right around two thousand six. The law could not reveal the the law could only reveal the deficiencies of human conduct. It could not cure them or atone for them. But he, speaking of Christ, took upon himself all the penalties due to the human race for the transgressions of God's law and atoned for them by his death, thus completely negating the curse. What is the curse? that they're referring to. the curse from Genesis three? the curse of death. Yes. Yes. Okay. So in Christ's atoning death and resurrection, he has paid for that. And this is seen through all through all ages of the church fathers and in every single apostolic tradition. So something I love to go to, I'm gonna find this here. So this is from Saint John Cronstad from the Orthodox Church, and I read this to you earlier, and this is just absolute delight. I would love to shake this man's hand. So Jesus Christ as the Savior of the world was sacrificed for our sins by suffering and dying. He received from the all just heavenly Father upon his humanity the punishment for all our sins. The Son of God took upon himself instead of me and you. All the horrors of eternal justice, of eternal punishment that were due to me and you. He drank the cup of righteous wrath and fury of the Almighty God that should have been drunk by me and you. He took upon himself all the flaming arrows from God's quiver, prepared for sinners, that should have eternally struck and scorched me and you, ungrateful and depraved sinners. That right there is the essence of penal substitutionary atonement. God has a just law. It was given to Adam. you shall not eat of this fruit. The hour that you do so, you shall die. Right. And so Adam partook of the fruit. He is our covenant head. And as such, we being his offspring fall guilty of that. That's part of that covenant headship. And so we all die. And Christ took upon himself our sins. And in this he satisfies the justice that is required from the Father. Right. Yeah. Even what is it? by one man came death, by one man comes life. we're all dead in Adam, but in Christ shall all be made alive. Yes. first Corinthians fifteen? I think so. I'm just gonna go with it. I don't know. We sing it at church, so I think it's I think it's first Corinthians fifteen. Even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Christ is the new Adam. He is the new covenant head. All those who are engrafted into h into him will live. Mm-hmm. And not just live, they will share eternal life. Mm-hmm. and what is the chief end of man? Man's chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy him forever. Yes. That's life. That is life. That's true life. so anything outside of that is death. so PSA. There i God has set a consequence for sin. We violated that law. Christ in our stead bears the wrath of that sin. Right. And that wrath, putting wrath in quotes because God is immutable. His he he does not participate in anger the same way we do. but that justice must be fulfilled. Right. And Christ steps in on our place. He substitutes for us. Right. And receives that justice on our behalf. Right. And so because he also lived a perfect life, that righteous his righteousness is imputed to us. It's not just that It's not just that wrath is dealt with. Yes. But righteous actual righteousness is acquired by us. Yes. Through Christ. Through Christ. I really loved in William Perkins Reformed Catholic, he addresses the imputation of righteousness versus the infusion of righteousness as the basis of justification. And he talks about how, if we are to say that our righteousness th w the righteousness which justifies us is infused, then we also have to say the sin that was condemned was infused to Christ. So it says that he became sin who knew no sin, that in him we might become the righteousness of God. If that is infusion, if our righteousness is infusion, then the sin that we have is infused to Christ so that it becomes his sin rather than what it actually is, is our sin on him. Yes. And that's the penal substitutionary part of PSA. And this is why the father can always love the son, is because even though the father hates sin, he can still love the son because the son does not participate. That is not infused to him. He is still taking account of it. He became sin by imputation. By imputation. Not infusion. Yeah. Yeah. that was one of the big things in in the reformed world. Right. When this was being discussed. The other thing I love in Perkins is this little phrase is that God crowns the the thing that God crowns in us is he crowns his son's righteousness. Yeah. Perfect Redeemer. Perfect Redeemer. So glad you let me borrow that book. That was such a good book. Yeah. I think we're gonna do a family study on it because it is I it's short. It's short, and it just goes to show that it's it is all Christ all the way through, top to bottom. Everything that we have that is good is Christ. Yes. And and that's what that's what is crowned in us. Yeah. So we got on Going back to Clement. Yeah, we got on this whole Train because of Clement citing Isaiah fifty three. Do you think Clement is an advocate for PSA? Yes. Why? because I I'll read this part in it. this one bears our sins and suffers our pain for us. Right there. We have the sin and we have the substitution. He bore it for us. Yep. And we regard him being in pain and in torment and in affliction. This is the wrath of God. wrath of God being poured out on the humanity of Christ. Right. And it also shows, given his conclusion at the end, you see, beloved, what is the example which is given to us, that the PSA theory of the atonement is not actually at odds with other theories of the atonement. No. No, absolutely not. and this is something I will freely admit, most of the church fathers focus on like Christus Victor. Mm-hmm. which I think is honestly a good focus. absolutely. Because that that is the most Soli Deo Gloria focus of the atonement. It's all Christ. It is all Christ. And part of it the thing is that you don't get to Chris you know, Christ's victory over the grave if you don't have his descent into death. Right. Yeah how does he how does he defeat death yes if he was never if he if he was never in its domain. Yes. So yeah so the So PSA is not at odds with other forms of the atonement. I think that they are wonderful in that they focus on different aspects of Christ's victory. Yeah, but the atonement is so much more full orbed than just PSA or just Christus Victor or just a good example, right? Yeah, we we shouldn't limit God in his glory. We should look at all of this and say, What a wonderful God we have. What a loving Redeemer. And I know C. S. Lewis in particular struggled with PSA. He eventually came to to see its merit. but he before he became a Christian, thought it was, you know, the cosmic child abuse that Richard Dawkins complains about. Yes. and then he he came to accept it in part, but he hated the articulation that you see today. and I think there's some good reason for that. yes. But he also has a really good point of you don't necessarily know how You don't need to know how it works in order to know that it works. Yes. Like you and he he draws an analogy in mere Christianity to the eating of food. You don't need to know how all the vitamins and the enzymes and the proteins work. And you don't need to necessarily know which ones you need. You just know you need to eat the food. Yes. And so we know that we need to be united to Christ by faith and it's his death that purchases our redemption, whatever that means. Yes. And I mean that's the cool part about the the love of God and the promise in that is found in Christ is it's not you have to have a perfect understanding. It's a it's not it's not a theology test. Yeah, it's not about believing the what, it's about believing the who. Yes. You believe Christ. You believe in him and whatever he did to save us is effectual because he's the one who did it. Yes. Not us and our grasping of it. Yeah. And we'll get more into that later on when we talk about how Clement is solo believes in solafide. later on. This is also why I think the Trinity is more important than PSA. absolutely. Because it it gets into who we worship. Yes. It it's it's God focused. Yeah, the object of worship is much more important than correct theories about Yeah, correct the yeah. Than arguing amongst us ourselves. Yeah, a hundred percent. So Was there anything else you wanted to touch on on chapter sixteen? We've spent half an hour already on this this area. I think I'm I think I'm okay. Okay. Maybe maybe we'll do a video later on just PSA and Yeah, I think that would be a really good one. Yeah. A deeper dive into it. Yeah, where I'll actually articulate it properly. Yeah. Stop giving your hard-earned money to pagans. Look, we are Christians, we are reformed Christians, and all of us love. Coffee, but every dollar you spend on coffee is a vote for what you value. Instead, choose coffee roasted by believers who share your convictions. Why fund the enemy's kingdom when you can keep the money in-house? But not only that, Squirrely Joes makes fantastic coffee. So far I've tried three of their blends. This here is peace, but my personal favorite is the Covenant Dark Roast. You've reformed your theology, now it's time to reform your coffee. Head over to squirrelyjoes.com and use code CONRE at checkout for fifteen percent off your first order. That's squirrelyjoes.com and code CONRCORNER at checkout for fifteen percent off your first order. It supports the show, it supports a great Christian family, and it tastes amazing. Now, back to the show. All right. chapter seventeen then. it's I'm gonna light my pipe finally. Yeah, go for it. I'll go ahead and read this part. It he he's listing off more examples. of humility and he goes on in chapter eighteen to list David. but for for chapter seventeen he says this this again is right after him saying, looking to Christ as this example, who through him we have come under the yoke of his grace, which is a fascinating thing to think about. The yoke of Christ is a yoke of grace, right? come to me all who are weary and heavy laden, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and my Burden is light butchering the the Bible verse because I never really was a good memorizer and never really put too much effort into it when I was a kid. That's okay. You're older now. Yeah. I'm older now and my memory is starting to slip, so now's the time to start memorizing, I guess. Someone's gonna come after you in the comments saying that it's because of your love of pipe tobacco. No, that's actually having the opposite effect. It's more the whiskey that that's doing that's doing that for me. but what's the Gandalf quote? your love of weed has Your love of of the Hobbit's weed the Hobbit's leaf has clouded your mind. Has clouded your mind. And then he he responds with basically just saying the opposite is true. This is a tangent, but I just ordered the rest of the history of Middle Earth box sets. So there's four total. I have one and so my birthday was just pretty recently, so I ordered myself. Happy birthday by the way. Thank you. The remaining three box sets and next year is gonna be Tolkien focus. This year's Lewis focus, next year's Tolkien focus. That'll be fine. But anyway, so we've now come under the yoke of the grace of Christ. So then chapter seventeen, let us also be imitators of those who walk around in the skins of goats and in sheepskins, preaching the coming of the Christ. And we speak of Elijah and Elisha, and in addition also Ezekiel, the prophets. And in addition to these the famous men of old, Abraham was very well spoken of and was called the friend of God. And he says, looking intently at the glory of God, being humble-minded, but I am dust and ashes. Super based. That's the right response. When you see the glory of God, you repent and dust and ashes. That is the prophetic way to handle it. And in addition, it is also thus written about Job. And Job was a righteous and blameless, was righteous and blameless, true, God fearing, and refrained from all evil. But he accuses himself saying No one is clean from dirt, not even if his life is one day. Moses was called faithful in all his house, and through his service God condemned Egypt through their suffering and torment, but even he, though greatly glorified, did not boast, but from the bush he said, When an oracle was given to him, Who am I that you send me? But I am weak voiced and slow of tongue, and again he says, but I am steam. From a pot. And so here again he's just using these prophetic examples, of literal prophets in their humility and some of the greatest men in Christian history, Abraham, Ezekiel, Elijah, Elisha, and Moses, and Job, who is called a blameless and righteous man, and their response is not to boast of their righteousness. No. Their response is not to show everyone how great they are. It is a true humility. And that's something that we struggle with as Christians today, especially if we're plagued in the Pietist movement. We like to add rules to make ourselves feel more holy. Mm-hmm. And, you know, we criticized Sproul earlier. Yes. Now I'm gonna praise Sproul. When I was a Pentecostal, I read his book, The Holiness of God. Yes. And that rocked my world because it showed me that I did not actually view God as holy. It showed me that I viewed God as someone that I could appease by following the rules. The problem was the rules I was following were rules that I made up or rules that my church made up. And one of the examples he uses in the book is we'll we'll make up these rules like you can't go to the movies or you can't dance or you can't play cards. But God doesn't say anywhere in scripture that those things are forbidden. What he does say is you shouldn't gossip. Gossip is a sin. But growing up We prided ourselves on being different from the world because we didn't do a lot of those same kinds of things. We didn't drink. We didn't smoke. Which I'm doing both of those now. yeah. Yeah. Sixteen year old me would have been horrified at that point. Absolutely. But these were false pieties. These were this is legalism. Adding to the law to give yourself a standard that you can meet in order to placate your conscience before God. And it's very interesting that that is what happens, that we give ourselves the standard that we can meet. Mm-hmm. Because it means that we don't have to go before the throne of mercy. Yeah. And and the whole point here, they are appealing to mercy. The right the most righteous men in scripture are appealing to to mercy. And he goes on to talk about David as an example of humility. He cites Psalm fifty one about his being conceived in iniquity and born in sin. Even David, who is a man after God's own heart, is Claims himself to be born in in born in iniquity. Yeah. I love that meme. He was the best guy around. Yeah. But what about the murder? What murder It's like that's that's the defense of these men in the Old Testament. What murder. Yeah. Yeah. If we had lived in the days of A you know, in the days of the prophets, we wouldn't have stoned and killed them. Right. But like you see, David is a murderer. yes. But God still says he's righteous. He's a man after my own heart. Even after I think, even after he kills Uriah. Well he says, you know, turn your face away from my sins and blot out all my transgressions. Create in me a clean heart and a renew an upright spirit in my innermost parts. Yeah. And he says, Because if you had desired sacrifice, this is verse sixteen, I would have given it. You will not delight in whole burnt offering. The sacrifice of God is a shattered spirit, a shattered and humbled heart, God will not disdain. And it's interesting to note his sins were particularly with Uriah and Bathsheba here, adultery with Bathsheba and not Uriah, and murder of Uriah. Both of those, there is not a sin or there's not a sacrifice to atone for those sins in the old testament. and it is the those are the first two sins in the garden. Adultery, they cling to something that is not their beloved. Mm-hmm. Which for Adam should have been God. Right. And for Eve sh yeah. And then the next sin is murder, which was you know, Cain and Abel. Yeah. so it's amazing that even one after God's own heart still deal is dealing with the first two sins. Yeah. And then continuing in chapter twenty, like just kinda skipping over nineteen 'cause it's it's all very similar stuff, but it it kinda ties in a little bit to twenty. He's pointing us to creation. Yes. Like a good pastor, he's telling us to open our eyes and look around. To see the glory of God around us and that should humble us. That should floor us. That should bring us down low to the earth and lift our eyes up to heaven. Yeah. The one of the most humbling things is to be out I love camping. I love hiking. You get out to the middle of nowhere and it's you and you see all of God's creation. You know, you're at the top of the mountain and you see all of it and you're like, I really am just a speck of dust. Yeah. In God's mighty creation. All of this is created to his glory. Yeah. We play such a minor part in the story that his love for us is vast. Yes. Yes. so like you said, chapter twenty is examples from nature. you know, the hollow of the boundless sea, the seasons of spring, summer, autumn, and winter succeed one another in place. Yep. The sun, the moon, the stars, the seasons, all of it. Yeah. And the great creator and master of everything ordained all these things to exist in peace and harmony, doing good to all things and beyond all measure to us, who have fled for refuge to his mercies through our Lord Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory and majesty forever. Amen. And that's exactly right. Considering creation should lead us to praise and worship. Doxology of God. Yep. I love this little doxology at the end. maybe we should have someone turn it into a Little song or something. Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah. so once we felt the humility of from looking at our fathers in the faith and seeing creation around us, the next question is, how should we live? Mm-hmm. And he deals right in and deals straight into that in chapter 21. So he says, the spirit of the Lord is a lamp searching the innermost parts. Let us observe. How near he is, and how nothing escapes his notice, neither either of our thoughts or of the considerations that we make. Therefore it is right that we turn not away from his will. So obviously, God knows your innermost thoughts. therefore, in instead, let us offend foolish and dull witted people, and those who are arrogant, and those who boast in the false pride of their words rather than in God. That's Hilarious. Let us offend them. yes. It's a it's a command. It's a we're gonna do this, we're gonna offend these people. And at the time, like we know this is the Greeks. The Greeks were known for their rhetoric, for their use of words, their wordplay. And like, there's not anything wrong with being a well I'm clearly not one, but being a wordsman. There's nothing wrong with that. But when you depend on that. When you fall back to your your your rhetoric and your ability with words and you don't actually have substance, that's when you should be offended. and instead we should be looking to the substance of Christ. Yeah. we we actually talked about this in Bible study, how you can how how there are many sins that are tied just to false pride, you know, like, hey, you taught why is the reason that you said that joke? Yeah. Are you trying to get people to look at you and laugh at your joke because it's you told it? Yep. so be aware of that. Be of be aware that you are full of sin. You are a sinner. so don't boast in the f your words, boast in Christ. And and again, tying everything into what he's been talking about with jealousy, you are jealous for people's attention. You are are jealous for people to have a high opinion of you. You're jealous for something that is not God. Mm-hmm. Which is congratulations, you've made an idol. Right. So Yeah, covetousness which is idolatry. That was the end of that was Colossians three, right? That was what we what we did last week. Yeah in our Bible. what do we get through? Like six verses? Something like that. In two hours. so continuing on, let us hold the Lord Jesus Christ in reverence, whose blood was given on behalf of us. Once again, going back to a little bit of PSA there. Yeah. For people who deny PSA, what do they mean what do they think that means to for his blood to be given on our behalf or behalf of us? honestly depends which tradition you talk to. Mm-hmm. So several of them will say hand will hand wave and say you're just not understanding it. Okay, but what does it mean? What does it mean? That's what I'm asking. so a lot of them will talk about how it it's a purifying thing, not a substitutionary thing. 'cause like blood sprinkled on the altar purifies it. Yeah. Okay. So th there is some of that. And I'm not necessarily saying that that's wrong, but I'm saying that if you deny that your sin that your sins that Christ substituted your sins, yeah, then you're missing something there. Yeah, we still have to the sin still has to be dealt with. Yes. And if all all that was done in the atonement was just in initial cleansing, mm-hmm, you still are relying on yourself. Yes. And as Perkins points out, even the good works we do are done by Christ. So it can't it can't be our works. It has to be Christ's works all the way through. Yep. And that which Christ crowns in us is that which the Father crowns in us is Christ. Exactly. So so continuing on with the question of how should we live, chapter twenty two is about fearing the Lord and what that actually means. We're gonna talk about children, because this is this is the faith. The faith is not just for you, it's for you and your children. That's right. Two thousand generations. And the faith in Christ confirms all these things, for even he himself calls us through the Holy Spirit thus Come, little children, listen to me, I will teach you the fear of the Lord, who is the one who is wanting life and loving to see good days. Make your tongue cease from evil, and keep your lips from speaking deceit. Turn aside from evil and do good. Seek peace and pursue it. The eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous, and his ears to their prayer. But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil, and to that and to utterly destroy their memory from the earth. So the righteous one cried out, and the Lord heard him, and delivered him from all his afflictions. Many are the torments of the sinner, but those who hope hope upon the Lord will be surrounded by mercy. And this theme is all over scripture. Do righteous, do righteous deeds, turn aside from evil and do good, seek peace and pursue it. and I think I have in my Bible underlined there when it talks about that he he hears their prayers. But he only hears the prayers of the righteous. Yeah. I think that's a a very important thing to remember. If we are harboring secret sin, God is not answering our prayers. He's not gonna be listening to you. We have to be confessing, we have to be repenting of our sins. and actually walking in righteousness. And so when we say that we are justified by imputed righteousness, that is not to say that there is no place for actual righteousness to be infused to us. And this is where some of the confusion about the f the idea of s what salvation is. You know, obviously we're reformed, we have the distinction between justification and sanctification. Right. We believe justification to be monergistic. God grants that through his mercy. Christ came to save his people and he does so. Correct. but the sanctification portion of it, which is us learning how to be us learning to be conformed to the image of Christ. Yeah. Is something that is monergistic, how synergistic. Synergistic, that's what it is. because we are learning, we are growing in that. Right. Yeah, the the Spirit is aiding us by his grace, to live righteous lives. Yes. That righteousness is not the ground of our justification though. That's the key distinction. Salvation is both justification and sanctification. Yeah. but we are justified by grace alone, through faith alone. Faith is the instrument which by which we are united to Christ. Correct. so It is so it's by faith alone. I'm gonna put that out there. You know, five solos are great. Yeah. Yeah, and again we I think we talked about this last week, but you know with Redeem Zumer coming after the five solos and saying like, the reformers never never taught about that, never said anything like that. Tell me what Solafida is everywhere in the church fathers. You just have to if your eyes are open to it, you will see it. And it is a term that we gave to it later because we wanna systematize. Well, it's it's a description term. Yeah. You're describing that the union the union to Christ is through faith. Yeah. Well, I mean the word Trinity is never in the Bible. But it's a word that we use to describe it. Yes. Yeah. In a similar way, the five solas I think are accurate summations of much of Reformed theology. Not all of it, but much of it. Yeah. So, yeah, learn the fear of the Lord. teach your children. Mm hmm. Yeah. And yeah. Yeah, and and as our pastor says, when we baptize our babies, we are agreeing to raise them up. Not to the faith, but in the faith. Yeah. They are part of this. They are members of God's covenant. We view them as his his children in the same way that we are, we believe that they have faith, because of what the Psalms say about the children in the old covenant and what we know is true of children in the new covenant, right? Jeremiah thirty two. I will do this, not only for your say, but for the good of your children after you. And I will give you all one heart, one mind that you will keep my commandments. Mm-hmm. And so we believe that our children are part of the covenant. The covenant in is the covenant of the faithful. And so our children, we should expect to be faithful. It should be an exception when somebody apostatizes, not the expectation. And I think where so many modern Presbyterians go wrong is they expect that their children don't believe and they need to be converted. Yes. Where we say, no, they are converted. Now our obligation is covenant nurture and that is the ordinary means by which God keeps and sustains his people. And in the in the nicest way, it's not your job to be concerned about their salvation. Mm-hmm. That's not your job. That's not your prerogative. That is God's job. So when someone apostatizes, that is a very sad thing and we should we should mourn that. Yeah. But we should also design getting into hot water, we should still glorify God in it. Yeah. Always. Because he's purifying his church. He is purifying his church. He's purifying his bride. Right. Yeah, and he's he's showing that e the evil among us still does need to be purged. He does want a pure church. but We should be operating in faith on the promises of God. Yes. That He He will be faithful to us and to our children, to a thousand generations. And so we believe that our children are just as much heirs of the kingdom of God as we are, based on what Christ has said. and then if there are any ever any exceptions, that reveals itself in the wheat being removed. The tares being removed. Yes. Yes. The tares being removed. The wheat are gathered up into the barn. Yes. The terrors are thrown out of the barn. I know this. I am very good at agricultural analogies. Very good. If you haven't guessed. yes. Yeah. These these hands, so calloused. So cal you would not believe. okay anyway. You work a desk job, my friend. Yes, a desk job. I barely move. I I sit down all day. Yeah. I gotta start walking more. I gotta start moving my look, it is beautiful today, except when it you know, pours. my goodness, that storm that we had worst. Yeah, it was a whole lot worse over in Boise and Meridian. But over here it was not that bad. But man, it was loud and there was so much of it. Yes. it if you live in the Midwest, you'd look at it and be like, we have those every every fall, every spring. here where we live. This is this was exceptional. Yeah. And you guys are probably gonna hear some fireworks fireworks going off because we're close to the fourth. 'Cause it's fourth of July. We actually live in America, unlike Californians. Yeah. And so we're allowed to celebrate and have a good time. We have rights here. We do have rights. Yeah. so continuing on, I know we keep saying continuing on. Yeah. the father, beneficent and merciful in every way, has compassion upon those who fear him. Both kindly and lovingly bestows his gift on those who draw near to him with a sincere mind. Therefore, let us not be double minded, and let not our soul entertain strange notions about his excellent and glorious g gifts. Let this scripture be far away from us, where it says, Wretched are the double minded. yes, I did read that right. Those who He's saying let the application of it be far from us, not the scripture itself. Yeah. Yes. those who Wretched are the double minded, those who doubt in their soul, who say we have heard these things, even in the days of our fathers, and behold we have grown old, and none of these things have happened to us. O foolish people, compare yourselves to a tree, take a vine, first indeed first it indeed sheds its leaves, then a bud comes, then a leaf, then a flower, and after these things a nonripe grape, then presents a bunch of grapes. See that in a little time the fruit of the tree becomes ripe, truly, will be quickly and suddenly accomplished. His desire, as the scripture also testifies that he will come quickly and will not stay long. The l and the Lord will suddenly come to his temple, even the holy one whom you expect. So good. So good. Man, so I have Handel's Messiah on vinyl. Yes. And I was listening to it earlier today. And most of the verses cited by Clement thus far have been sung in Handel's Messiah. It's yeah, I that is one of my favorite pieces of music. Mm-hmm. And I was yeah, listening listening to it earlier today and I'm like, Man, I hearing the operatic voice singing this in the in the same language, it's so good. Yeah, so let this this scripture be far away from us where it says wretched are the double minded. yeah, he's he's obviously not saying let the scripture be far from us. He's saying let us not be like the condemned here. Let us not be the wretched, double minded, but let us have humility, the true fear of the Lord. And everything he's been talking about here is showing us what the fear of the Lord looks like. That is humility. Not being double minded, but being faithful and true, kind, generous. and he said we we we kind of glossed over this in chapter twenty one, verse eight. Our children let them have a share in the instruction that is in Christ. And so part of fearing the Lord is raising our children up, as as God fearers as well, like we've been talking about. Yeah. I just wanna go back to that verse 'cause it's another one that that points out what we've been talking about here. So you should baptize your kids, Baptists. Baptize your babies. That is the command of God. I didn't say it. God did. Everywhere in his word. If you want me to give you a proof text, I'll just point you from Genesis to Revelation. Yeah. And you'll see it. It's there. it's it's just the whole thing. It is the whole thing. Yeah. and then he he brings us back to an example in the resurrection, chapter twenty four. Let us Consider, beloved, how the Master continually points out to us the resurrection that is coming, of which he made the first fruits by raising up the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead. Yes. Yeah, he is so insistent that the resurrection is an essential aspect of the faith. Yes. Not just Christ's resurrection, but ours. We are united to Christ, and so we will all be raised with him. Mm-hmm. But it's also not just believers that will be resurrected. It's the unbelievers, but their resurrection will be unto eternal death. and this is what we we confess in the Apostles Creed. and I remember growing up in a Pentecostal church and I literally had no idea that there would be a resurrection of people. Really? Yeah. I just kind of thought when we die we go to heaven and that's it. There's no Ever coming back to Earth. So like the all the stuff we did here didn't matter. and then eventually I came to the understanding no we will be resurrected into our bodies here. And I don't think that that church was not teaching it. I just didn't hear it. Yeah. I think it was something that they believed, I just never heard it. So I'm not I'm not saying that they denied it or anything. I just Yeah. See, I I was on the other side of it. the blend of Mormonism that I was a part of because there are many different strains of it. is that after you died and was resurrected, if you were faithful and you received your celestial glory, you would come back to Earth and the earth would be your celestial home. Yeah. So we belie in it it was the three degrees of glory were three different places, physical places. So Celestial. Telestial Terrestral is the same. Terrestrial. And then telestral. And then telestial. Yeah. Okay. But those are the three. Those are the three. And within the celestial kingdom you have different categories as well. And they think that Christians go to s the celestial kingdom? No. No. telestral and terrestrial. So 'cause in order to go into the Celestial you have to be a baptized member of the LDS church. I thought the telestial was was for the Mormons. Celestial is the top end. It's the top? Yeah. Celestial is the top. It's the Okay. Sun, Moon, and Stars. So Yeah, I'm like I'm not terribly familiar with it. Most of what I know about Mormonism either came from you or South Park. So Which South Park it does do, it's quite funny. I have heard it's accurate at least. Fairly accurate, yeah. Yeah. All right now we get to the really fun part. yes. And this is gonna be unfortunately where we have to wrap up. But I think we can do it. I think we can make it in a a reasonable amount of time for this this episode. Chapter twenty-five is about the sign of the phoenix. So I'm gonna go ahead and read this whole chapter. Okay. And we can talk about why phoenixes are real. Are you gonna go through the chapter twenty-six as well? yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay, so chapter twenty five and twenty six. Let us consider the strange sign which takes place in the eastern regions. That in those regions found around Arabia, for there is a bird which is called the Phoenix. This bird, being the one and only of its kind, lives five hundred years, and now, having come to its dissolution to death, it makes itself a tomb, out of frankincense and myrrh and other fragrant spices, into which, after fulfilling the time, it enters and dies. And from the rotting of the flesh a certain worm is born, which Being nourished by the juices of the dead bird grows wings. What a weird way to put that the juices of the dead bird. Then, having become strong, it takes away that tomb where the bones of its progenitor are, and carrying them it continues from Arabian from the Arabian region as far as Egypt to the place called Heliopolis, and in the daylight, being seen by all, lighting upon the altar of the sun it places them and starts back again. Therefore the priests examine the public records of the dates, and they find it is come at the fulfillment of the five hundredth year. Therefore, do we consider it to be great and wonderful if the creator of everything will bring about the resurrection of those who devoutly who those who devoutly served him in the confidence of good faith, when he showed us the greatness of his promise through a bird? For it says somewhere, and you will raise up me and I will praise you, and I lay down and fell asleep, I awoke. Because you were with me. And again, Job says, and you will raise up this flesh which has patiently borne all things. All right. Yeah. The Phoenix. The Phoenix. Absolutely real. Absolutely real. Why do you say that the phoenix is real? Well, because when we look at not just history but church history specifically, we see that it is full of things that are not just stuff. And we live in a world that's not just stuff. Mm-hmm. so I've heard that before. I know. I wonder where I got it. it must have just been me, you know. Honakosmos, great book. Great book. Pretty fun podcast. Pretty fun podcast, yes. but the cool part about the Phoenix is that it he's using it typologically, you know. Hey, we see this physical phenomenon and how cool is it that God gave us something there to actually like look to. Yeah, and I something I o I often do is I look to just the general seasons, right? Winter is death, spring is life. the flowers die and they grow grow back up again the next year and then in the autumn, the fall time, mm-hmm we harvest. So you're saying reincarnation? No. No. Not reincarnation, but resurrection. Resurrection. Resurrection is baked into creation. But here Clement points out something Foreign to us the Phoenix because the Phoenix is real. It's real. Now, when I first read it, like I and I I tend to be a little bit more mystically minded than a lot of reform folks. But when I first read it I was thinking, he's just talking about a fable. But the more I look at it, the more I'm thinking, is this just a story? Is this just a fable? Or is this something that he's saying literally happens? And I'm kinda leaning more toward that, that he truly believes this is something that literally happens. Well, it's either he believes it or it's something he's been told. Or it's something he's been told. I think that this is also found in in Herodotus, I think Pliny the Elder mentions it. Okay. so this was something that was in the mix. Yeah. And I don't think that the mythologies aren't entirely false. No, no, dragons obviously exist. Yeah. I think that they did. if not still do. Still do. So they're behind the ice wall. Of course. But yeah, I I think I think there's some legitimacy here here to what he's saying that the Phoenix is an actual thing created by God to show us the resurrection. Now, why do you think we haven't seen a Phoenix? Well, it's one bird and it's every five hundred years, so Fair enough. Yeah, I I mean look, we're finding hundreds of new species every year. Yeah. So Yeah, there was a time when they thought the gorilla was fake. yes. They thought the the gorilla was a cryptid, just like Bigfoot, the Phoenix, the Loch Ness monster. And then they found it. Then they found it. I This is one of those ones where it's like like pandas don't exist. There's no way that they survive in the wild. They have to be a genetic experiment. Yeah. Yeah, they were created by the Chinese government. Yes. To be something cute and cuddly that they could propagandize with. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've been watching those videos. yeah. They're hilarious. Yeah. They don't they can't reproduce. They don't they can't eat anything other than bamboo. Yeah. It's like how? Yeah. How? Somehow. Anyway, Yeah, so I think I think the Phoenix is real. because it's just a lot cooler. yeah. Right? It'd it'd be freaking sweet. If it's if it's actually a real bird. And we can use that as a real reason to want to enjoy something. Why do I think it's real? Because it's sick. That's so much cooler. Yeah. And you know what? I'm gonna enjoy life. I'm not gonna just be a this hyper materialistic curmudgeon. No. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna put a smile on my face and say, you know what, that bird that bird's real. Here's the thing that you're reformed. You cannot smile. You have to sit there pietistically consider your own damnation. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna make a joyful noise unto the Lord. I'm gonna put a smile on my face when I'm singing Psalms. I am not gonna be a grump. Yeah. Yeah. man. Yeah. And you know, the cool thing about I I was gonna try and make the slide into the ad, but it's not it's not feeling. Yeah, the ad into the rising. yes. Yes. So this guy he thought he thought he came up with something special. I thought it was special and then I'm trying to remember, it's just gone. here we go. As the Phoenix rises. Yeah. You know, the cool part about the Phoenix is that it dies and it you know crumbles into ashes and it rises again in in the morning, you know, with the sun. And we also do that. We also, you know, go to sleep and we rise again in the morning. And what do we rise with, Quentin? We rise with a great cup of coffee. Yeah, Squirrelly Joe's coffee. Squirrely Joe's coffee. The greatest cup of coffee from a great Christian company who doesn't hate you, a Christian company who supports your values and wants to see the kingdom grow. So we should stop giving our money to pagans that hate us and instead invest in kingdom building through good coffee. Yeah, and it's not just it's not just something that you enjoy. Yeah. You know your money is going somewhere that is profitable to the kingdom and to a Christian family. Exactly. Exactly. So if you guys want a good cup of coffee and a good deal, head over to squirrelyjoes.com. That's squirrelyjoes And use code corner to get 15% off your first order. Yeah. And look at that. We did our first ad. We did it. Got our first ad and our first podcast, and that is how we're going to end the video. So thank you guys for coming in. I appreciate you stopping by the Reform Corner podcast. Again, my name is Quentin James. My name's Elijah King. Yep. Elijah King. I do know him. I know his name. I just try to get him to say. It's just weird. It's just weird to be like, what's your name again? What's your name? that guy. That guy. That tall Mormon looking guy. Yes. All right. Well thank you guys for coming and we hope to see you next time, which hopefully is in a week. Yeah or so as we figure out the scheduling of this podcast. But anyway, take care. God bless.