Latest / I Do, Part 2 / Picking Up The Pieces

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Picking Up The Pieces · I Do, Part 2

• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Hey, it's me Jenny Garth, one of your hosts here
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: at I Do Part two. We were talking with doctor
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Hillary and there was just so much more that I
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: need to ask her, So let's jump back into that conversation.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: The hardest part for me was the kids of it
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: all and just that enormous guilt that I was ruining
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: their lives forever. And it was really really hard for me.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: And I can remember the only thing, the only tool
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: that I heard from somebody along the way was I
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: would say to them in those moments when they were
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: showing me how hurt and upset they were, I wish
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: I had a magic wand and I could wave it
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: and everything would be okay. But I don't.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: But I love that you said this them, So you
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: did have tools that That's a version of what I'm
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: really saying here. And this is the hard thing as
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: a parent that is part of the decision to divorce,
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: or at least had to agree to the divorce is
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: saying to our kids some version of I can't fix it.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: It's the last thing we want to say to our kids.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: But the best thing to say to our kids their
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: reality is that it's not okay, and They don't want
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: to hear all the ways that it's okay. They want
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: to hear that you get it, that it hurts, and
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: that it doesn't feel better yet. Will it feel better? Yes, absolutely,
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: it will feel better. It will feel better tomorrow in
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: a certain way, in a year, in a certain way,
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: in ten years, in a certain way. It will feel
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: better along the trajectory, along the journey. We all know
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: adults who are children of divorce and they're okay, they
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: find their way right. But Parado kids have divorced find
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: their way much more easily if their trauma and their
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: ongoing pain is honored and acknowledged and validated and discussed
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: and not tried to make okay right, because that's their reality.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: It's never going to be okay for a kid that
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: their mom and dad are together. I mean, there are
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: may be exceptions where something crazy toxic was going on, obviously,
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: but in general, yeah, I love that you put that
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: to them. So you you offer them something critical, which
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: is I see you, I know, and I can't fix it,
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: and I'm right here with you until it feels just
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: a little bit better. You know.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: What do you think about bringing the new significant other
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: to a holiday gathering to meet your family for the
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: first time. Is that appropriate or is that too much
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: for the new person to handle, too much for the
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: kids the family to handle.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So, if you come to know me in general,
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I'm a clinician that likes to hold both sides and
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: talk about both sides. I am not going to do
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: that here. That is a hard no.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, I failed. I met my new significant
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: other in the beginning of December and he was at
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: our house for Christmas. Oh man, Well.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Look, having said that, are there stories where in theory
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: and in concept where I would say no and they
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: work out beautifully? Absolutely? I mean I have clients who
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: meet someone to introduce them to their kids, like the
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: next week, have them move in two weeks later, and
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: and how the beautiful mats became loving. So but let
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: me tell you why I'm saying now, and that is
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: the introduction. It's really about the kids. If there's no
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: kids involved, yeah, I mean, if there's no kids involve,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: whatever feels right to the adults involved, I think it's
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: just fine. I may have like an opinion one way
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: or the other, but I think it's just fine when
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: there's kids involved, because it bumps up against what I
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: was just talking about, which is like something much deeper
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: in our minds. Were like whatever, it's like two hours
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: over like a turkey and a couple of like eggnogs.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: It's all good. Other cousins will be there, It'll be
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: like so fun, right. But because it bumps up against
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: this like deeper, this isn't my dad, my mom is
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: moving on it, it sort of kicks up that, like,
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: my mom and dad aren't together. Having your kids meet
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: your significant other in a very small dose, in a
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: super chill environment is what I recommend as a first set.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: So like it's in neutral territory, you know, over a
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: coffee or a quick ice cream, depending out of age,
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: and it's like an hour and it's like the discussion
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: beforehand is version of what I was just talking about. Like,
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: so you've known about Joe for a long time, but
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: this is different. I'm telling you he's so important to
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: me that I want you, who was the most important
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: person to be in the world, to meet him, and
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: that that's a big message. Well bring up a lot
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: of feelings, you know, really, and it's adjusted for the
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: kids sixteen versus six, But you get what I'm saying.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: So wow, that's a that's a that's that's a that's
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: a moment. You know, how do you feel about it?
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: Here's my idea. We're going to meet Joe at the
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: yogurt shop tomorrow after school for an hour. We're just
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: gonna have an ice cream and you'll get to stay
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: hi and you can show him your favorite doll and
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: then like that's it. Then maybe we'll see him again
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: another time after right, And so that it's it's it's
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: really low pressure. It has a finite aspect to it
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: and feels kid centered, which I think matters that. It's like,
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, you're not going to say what I'm going
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: to say right now, but some version of like your
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: comfort matters to me, your feeling state matters to me.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: So this is slow, this is intentional, This is no pressure,
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: and the meeting itself is really more about Joe meeting
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: the kids versus the kids just witnessing Mom with Joe
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: in their new relationship. It's a way to like bring
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: them in as a part of it as opposed to
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: just like a witness of it.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because they are a part of it.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, That's that's the intention. And so slow rolling it
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: in the way that I was just describing, I think
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: sets up the entire system for the most success, but
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: particularly that relationship between the kids and Joe, because it
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: doesn't feel like too much at once and like a here,
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: he's here, and accept him. Right. It's it's the initial
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: meeting is not about the kid witnessing your connection with Joe,
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: or rather about Joe and the kids just get to
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: know each other, to know each other, and then the
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: next time it's two hours you go bowling, and then
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: the next time it's a movie and dinner, and then
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: from there you're starting to expand. Again, this is super prescriptive.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: It can work in an absence of all of this,
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: but from a clinical standpoint, now that we have the
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: information we've been talking about, I imagine what I'm saying
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: makes sense and that ideally, and if you're looking for
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: like a little bit of a map, that's the one
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: I would pick.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: That's a good map. Oh I was flying mapless. Okay,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: what do you think about people who have a checklist
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: of must haves in a partner? I know I in
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: my work. After my divorce, I had to sit down
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: and think about what was important to me looking forward
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: into another relationship, and my therapist at that time called
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: at my non negotiables, where that there were certain things
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: that were very very important to me to build that relationship.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: On exactly the phrase I was going to introduce as well,
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: non negotiables and just to think more about it for
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: the folks listening, these are things that like they're just
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: deal breakers that have now decided post divorce with great
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: intention and analysis, you cannot live without, you cannot endure.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: And I mean those might be things anything from he
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: lives a certain number of miles away, to he does
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: have kids he doesn't have kids, to he cares about communication,
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: to his adventures, lifestyle, whatever the things are, and that
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: is personal and concrete. So concretize those non negotiables, those
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: deal breakers for yourself. And it sounds like you did
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: in a way that is externalized. Don't let it be
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: vague and more like, really decide what are those things
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: and if you sit down with your piece of paper
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: or you're fried or your therapist, I don't know. Oh,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: I think it's one thing yesterday and one thing tomorrow.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: That's okay. I'm not surprised you just got out of divorce.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: It's static and you're trying to find your feet on
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: the ground. So don't despair if you don't know or
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: it keeps changing, but don't give up on it. Right,
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: It's a process. And like we were talking about at
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: the beginning, if you think your non negotiables are you know,
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: these top three things, and then you meet someone and
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: he has kids and you were sure you didn't want
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: to be with someone who has kids. But like all
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: the other things are so important, let it be fluid.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Don't make it all encompassing and all powerful in a
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: way that disallows you to be uh, a version of
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: like contrived spontanet at spontaneous. Right, all those things to
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: shift because you will be growing and shifting post divorce.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: So start the process, but allow it to flow and
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: shift and change, and don't shame or criticize yourself if
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: it does, in fact, expect it to.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: Yes, should you tell the person about your non negotiables
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: or should you keep them to yourself?
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good question. I mean I might not
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: just like present it.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: It's like a list. Here, read this and then just
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: sign at the bottom that you actually read it.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let me just text you this bullet contract. So
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: if you are sure that you want to be with
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: someone who is open to having children. That seems like
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: a non negotiable that is worthy of sharing. You know,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure you want to use that as like
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: your date opener. But again, I would embody that truth
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: even in that first meeting, certainly by the second meeting,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: and it's and I would love for people to When
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: I use the word embody, it's very deliberate. I don't
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: want anyone shrinking and like, well, I just kind of
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: want to be with some of them as kids. I
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: want you to sit in your truth and try it on,
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: even if it changes six months from now. I just
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: know in this season of my life, I'm really clear
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: I want to be with someone who wants to kids
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: as much as I do. It's just it's just something
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: I'm so clear on, which feels kind of great. Right.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: There's no apology, there's no further explanation. This is my truth,
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: and if the person can't promise or is turned off
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: by that, we can thank them for giving us this
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: feedback quickly so we don't have to carry on any longer.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: And that might be complex and disappointing and feel rejecting
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: in all those things. But if our goal is to
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: be embodied right, is to figure out what resonates for
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: us and live a life that finally feels like it's
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: uplifting and safe and grounded, we must put these things
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: out there in this embodied way. This is my truth
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: and I'm not going to apologize for it, and I
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: would attach that same mindset to really any non negotiable that, like,
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: don't apologize for it. You know, I want to be
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: with someone that wants to travel three times a year
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: I do. Might seem simple, might seem small, might seem nuanced,
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: but that's my truth for now. How do you feel
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: about travel right that you're just embodying who you are
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: at this season and trying on how it feels to
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: show up that way.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: I had something so it felt so insignificant, but to
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: me it felt it was important. I didn't want to
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: be with a smoker.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to be with somebody who smoked and
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: then for the rest of our lives was sick from it.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Always had that smell like it was really important to
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: me and I and when I met Dave, he smoked,
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: and so I immediately thought, oh, well, he's not the
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: one for me because he smokes silly as that is.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: And I remember asking, is quitting smoking something that you
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: might ever be interested or open to? Do you want
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: to smoke forever? What what is it with you and smoking?
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Like I had to instead of just shutting it off
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: for myself, I had to do what you said, get
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: curious and embody what I wanted, but at the same
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: time be curious about what he wanted so that I
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: could get that solid information.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Right, I know that's exactly what I'm talking about. You
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: have to show up for yourself and it's not easy.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: That kind of self advocacy.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Is very scary.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, scary, and that feeling I want your listeners to
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: understand is ubiquitous. There's nothing wrong with you if that
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: feels scary, It is scary to stand in your own
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: truth and declare them with risk. Right, he could have
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: turned around and said, I'm going to keep doing this.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: If that's a deal breaker for you, then I guess
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: this is where we part ways and that might have
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: been devastating, right, But to pursue something that is like
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: deeply resonating to our soul, which I think is the
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: pursuit post divorce. Right, If we're going to get divorced
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: and we're going to go through that trauma. We better
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: be pursuing something that is like soul worthy, right, you
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: better be. We're going to go through all of that,
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: And so having a conversation like that's, yes, scary, nothing
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: wrong with you. If it's anxiety provoking, all you got
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: to do is eke it out I do. You don't
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: have to feel confident about it, you don't have to
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: not feel scared about it. You just got to get
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: the words out right, conceice it until it starts to
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: feel a little less scary. But I just love that
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: word embodied. It's like just reflecting your truth and allowing
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: for that to shift and change and be influenced by
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: safe others in our own you know, sort of growth.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: But that's the exact example, a version of the example
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: I had in mind.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: A dating coach said that you should only go on
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: a date with someone once a week when you're getting
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: to know them. Do you think that's a good rule.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: In spite of what I've just said about I've said
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: a number of things that are prescriptive in this case. No,
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: I don't like over prescribing dating posts. Divorce what it
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: should or shouldn't look like. I think it induces a
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: lot of confusion and shame and self criticism. Look in
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: its extreme, if you're going out four to five nights
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: a week and not getting a lot of sleep and
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: drinking and in and around lots of different guys, and
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: that dynamic starts to feel like a little messy and
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: overwhelmed and the opposite of grounding. I think that's something
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: to look at. That pattern probably is an ideal in general,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: and certainly not right in the aftermath of divorce. But
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: I think having like a once a week is the limit,
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: and if more, that's bad. If it less, that's bad.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: It is overly prescriptive and not useful and ends up
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: making people feel bad. I'm not really interested in.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the rules of it all are not Yeah, yeah.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: That's right. So again intuition, you know, back to like, Yeah,
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: so lately I've been going out two three times a week?
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: How does that feel to me? Is it starting to
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: feel like I don't have as much time for self
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: care or sleep or my kids? No shame, no criticism, Yeah,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: maybe a little. I wonder if I should try twice
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: a week. I wonder what that'll feel like right, you know,
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: and just being curious as opposed to the rules, which
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: I think end up feeling confusing and shaming. I mean,
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: once a week get you decide that and that feels
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: right to you, that's great. But if you decide to
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: do more when you're getting to know someone, I think
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: that's fine. Look, there's the cliche trajectory which plays out
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: often enough that post divorce, you meet someone and filling
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: in space with that person makes you feel less hard
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: things and you aren't thinking about your loneliness and your
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: confusion and your anger and your trauma. We want to
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: watch out for that. If we are unable to sort
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: of reserve time for self reflection to feel all the
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: messy feelings, and the main culprit is dating and the
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: time spent there, that's something to consider. Getting through divorce
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: in a way that is healing and stabilizing requires time
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: to reflect and heal and feel all those tricky emotions.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: I don't want to equate it to like, so if
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: you're going out more than once a week, that means
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: you can't do that. I just want to be conscious
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: about it. Am I giving myself time and space and
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: mobilizing resources to help myself heal. And if the answer
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: is no or like a diminishing yes, we should look
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: at that and eliminate the things that are or at
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: least modify the things that are getting in the way.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Right, speaking of rules, what do you think about books
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: like the rules or men are from Mars and women
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: are for wherever other planet? I can't remember Venus Venus?
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Today? Do those kinds of books help?
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Look? I mean I think some of those concepts were
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: created because of patterns that repeat over time. I mean,
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: none of us are strangers for the idea that like
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: men and women oftentimes think differently and are or less
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: emotional about certain things, et cetera. So I think having
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: like a language to talk about it is it can
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: be useful, like with ourselves between friends with a partner.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: So they have utility because they make those things concretized
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: in a way that like we can wrap our brain
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: around as opposed to just like the feeling of all
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: those experiences. Having said that, I think dialogue and conversation
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: and nuance and like the self check in pattern that
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: we're talking about is your best tool, not a like
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: chapter three pages.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: You know, let me just hold on.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: This is what must be happening. Instead, look in yourself,
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: what is happening? What do I understand about it? How
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: does it feel in my body? If it's confusing, can
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: I say more about it? And what's ever going on
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: with the person in front of us being able? I
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: mean it depends on the situation. Show I'm over generalizing,
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: but to do a version of what you said you
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: did in your circumstance, like huh, I'm feeling this thing
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: or I'm thinking about this thing, like I just want
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: to say it out loud. What do you think? You
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: know that we if we get our head to into
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: books or like Instagram quotes or it can feel very
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: confusing and overwhelming when the answers eventually come within ourselves
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: and in dialogue with our potential partners, and if our
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: potential partners are unable to sustain a dialogue that is
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: delivered in a respectful, digestible way, we need to think
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: about that.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: If you've broken up, if you're going through a divorce
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: and you're having trouble, you're having a hard time getting
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: over your ex spouse, what should we do? I mean,
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: what questions should we be asking ourselves so that we
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: don't stay stuck. That's the worst when you just can't
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: get over it.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, it is the worst. It's deeply painful
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: to go through all the things that we're talking about
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: and still of the.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Person, especially if that person is already dating someone else
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: moved on.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: It's devastating. And I'll start there, and it's not a
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: pleasant concept to consider, but it's like a death that
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: induces an incredible amount of grief and all of the
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: stages that go with grief, all the anger, all the denial,
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: all the bargaining, you know, all that stuff that is
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: a little bit cliche, but like, oh so true, you know.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: And there's no avoiding that. There's no amount of like
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: dating or bashing him, or a therapy or whatever other
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: tools you might mobilize that can be a shortcut of that.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: You're gonna mon it, you're going to agrieve it, and
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: you're going to feel the things. And that season of
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: life is a little bit of a dark night of
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: the soul, right, it is really, really, really had to
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: get through so paradoxically, leaning in here it is here,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: it is, I'm leaning in and I'm taking care of
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: myself in every way I can think of, and not
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: expecting it to feel like better or okay in the
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: short run. And I'm like allowing myself to sit in
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: it so that as it begins to pass through, which
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: it always does. I remind clients all the time. Name
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: a feeling state you've had that hasn't changed eventually, No
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: such thing. It does change. It does change, and more eventually,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: maybe not tomorrow or even like six months from now
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: or twelve months now, shipped and change eventually. And so
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: it's about sitting in it, allowing it to come up
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: and out from your body in a safe way, and
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: just like I said, curate, cultivating as many resources as
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: possible as you get through it, being really kind and
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: graceful to yourself. And when you have time, I shouldn't
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: say time, when you have space to start gently thinking
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: about why this person is not a safe choice for
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: you any longer. Right, And if the only thing on
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: the list is because they don't choose me, that's enough.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: That's not a safe choice for you anymore, even if
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: everything else about them is amazing, which is usually not
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: the case. But even if it is, that renders it
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: an unsafe choice for you. And that doesn't mean it's
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: easily accepted, but it's something to start orienting yourself around.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: I can't choose, it doesn't choose me. I can't invest
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: in something that isn't reciprocated, and gently starting to understand
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: the part of you that's willing to do that for two.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Oover reminds me just like this hard this hard truth
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: that I had when I was going through it was
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: the therapist saying, Jenny, why would you love someone who
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: doesn't love you back? And that resonated for me in
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: my times of missing and wanting and attaching to things.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: I would say that to myself and I would be like,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: I would hate hearing it. Then it started to become like, Okay,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: this is a feeling. It's going to pass. This is temporary.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: I know this only lasts for like three minutes, this
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: intense feeling of hurt and pain, And then I would
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: replace that with he is not an option for you anymore.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: In my mind, that is not an option, So look
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: somewhere else.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, it is a deeply painful process to not be chosen,
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: and there's no way around that. But recognizing that truth
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: and building a relationship with it is critical because we
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: can't let ourselves orient our heart, mind, body, sould is
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: someone who doesn't choose us. It's the ultimate self betrayal. Yeah.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: So it is with great care that we continue to
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: like gently pick ourselves up and place ourselves on another path,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: because that path we don't get to be chosen, we
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: don't get the love that we deserve. And it's like
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: with great sadness and despair to remove ourselves there. But
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: we must, we.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Must, we must survive. Yeah. I love our conversation. Thank
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: you so much.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Oh, have such a pleasure, such an important conversation you
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: have I live.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, thank you for being with us. Yes, of course
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: that conversation with doctor Hillary was so incredibly helpful for
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: even me. I've been divorced for ten plus years and
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: I got so much out of it. And I really
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: hope that everybody listening who is in the position of
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: thinking about a divorce, in a divorce, just had a divorce.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: I hope that you got some really good info from
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: this pod. And I just I know you can do this,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: you will get past this, and we are here to
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: help you. So please please, if you want to call
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: us for advice one eight four four four I do pod.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: That's eight four four four four three six seven sixty three,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: or you can email us at idopod at iHeartRadio dot com,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram and TikTok at ID Part two pod,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: and be sure to check out all the information in
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: our show notes. Make sure to rate us and review us.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: I Do Part two an iHeartRadio podcast where falling in
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: love is the main objective.