Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Mega Edition: MCC Captain's Statement Detailing The Death Of Jeffrey Epstein (Part 14-17) (6/10/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: MCC Captain's Statement Detailing The Death Of Jeffrey Epstein (Part 14-17) (6/10/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
0:03
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive right
0:06
back in to the unnamed Captain and his interview with
0:11
the OIG investigators. Question and none of that was in there? Answer?
0:16
None of that was in there? Question and where's that
0:20
file located? Answer? It's supposed to be located in the
0:25
OIC right here in the OIC. Question when you say
0:30
the OIC is at the shoe where the OIC sits?
0:34
Answer yeah, question and anyone could have had access to that?
0:39
Answer yes. Question And had you ever seen that file
0:43
before that time? Answer no, question did you ever locate
0:49
it after that time? Answer no? Question. So it's likely
0:53
that someone took documents out if they should have been
0:56
in there, and they're not in there? Is that so
0:59
some one likely took things out? Answer yeah, question who
1:05
did it? But someone likely did? Answer? Am I belief? Yes?
1:09
Those documents were purposefully taken? Question And can you think
1:14
of a reason why they would have been taken? Answer
1:17
I don't know, sir. Question all right, but you had
1:20
never seen them before? Answer no, sir. Question and would
1:25
that be He gets caught off by the captain that
1:28
wouldn't be my purview to go through to audit those files.
1:32
Question Okay, who would be the person to ask about that? Answer?
1:35
That would have been the lieutenant question so redacted answer
1:40
redacted or Lieutenant redacted, he would have been the one
1:45
that would have audited the files. Question okay, answer, because
1:49
they do the SROs. Question and did you ask them
1:52
where the file was? Answer? Of course? I called him.
1:56
Question And what did he say? Answer? He didn't know,
1:59
he had no knowledge. Question all right, So he claimed
2:03
he doesn't know anything about it. Did he ever say
2:07
that he looked at the file before? Answer? No, No,
2:10
I don't remember him saying that. But when I called
2:13
him that Saturday, because I had a conversation with redacted
2:16
on that Saturday and that Sunday because he was supposed
2:19
to come to work that Sunday. So once he found
2:22
out about the situation with Epstein, because I had called
2:25
him and I said, hey, man, where is his inmate file?
2:28
What are you talking about? I said, his shoe file
2:31
is not up there, xyz. So I informed them of
2:35
what happened. Sunday, I get a call that he broke
2:38
his leg and then Redacted was out for like six months.
2:43
Question and did he really break his leg? Answer? I wouldn't.
2:47
No question, is there any reason to believe or had
2:51
you heard that? He actually didn't answer? Again, he was
2:54
supposed to be in that training, like I said, right,
2:57
what do you call it when you go for a reserve? Yep,
3:01
he was in military question military training? Answer? Because of
3:07
his military training. So he tells me they they're doing
3:11
the PT that next day, which was Sunday, he broke
3:14
his leg. Question did he ever provide any kind of documentation? Answer? Hmmm,
3:20
question no answer. Hm, he did provide something, but it
3:24
was from a doctor. I mean, and that was sent through.
3:27
He provided documentation, but I can't, I don't. I'm not
3:31
a doctor, so I can't tell you what it is.
3:33
And I'm not going to call the doctor to verify
3:36
if that was the situation. But basically it said that
3:39
he had a substantial leg injury that prevented him from
3:42
coming to work. Question, so have you had any conversations
3:46
with him since? Answer? Oh, he came back. So then
3:50
so redacted went out in August through September, October, November, December.
3:55
I think he came back either December or January. Question
3:59
of twenty nineteen answer of twenty twenty question. Okay, answer,
4:04
So he came back and he went back up to
4:06
the shoe as the oic. Question and ever in any
4:11
conversation did you guys talk about this matter? Answer? I
4:16
had disgusted with him on the phone twice. Question and
4:19
tell me about those discussions. Answer those discussions. So basically
4:23
I asked him about the inmate file. I talked to
4:26
him about it that Sunday. He alerted me that he
4:29
was injured. When he came back. We had discussions that
4:32
the staff. When he would me and redacted were I go,
4:36
I would say, out of all the lieutenants, me and redacted,
4:40
we spoke a lot. I thought very highly of him,
4:42
and he would talk and he was saying that he
4:44
was having difficulties with the staff and his other peers
4:48
because he, you know, the appearance that he faked the injury. Question.
4:54
Oh so there was a rumor answer and not to
4:58
be part of what everybody else was going through during
5:01
that Epstein situation. So he was getting it from the
5:03
lieutenants and he was also getting it from the line staff. Question. Okay,
5:08
so on him, is there anything that you know? I
5:11
know he wasn't there those days. But if there is
5:14
anything there that he did wrong, answer what redacted being wrong.
5:20
I'm not going to say he did something wrong or purposeful,
5:22
you know, to say that, you know, to cause the
5:24
death of inmate Epstein. Of course not. I'm not going
5:27
to say that. Question. Yeah, And I'm not asking that
5:31
or saying that. I'm just saying he gets cut off. Answer.
5:37
This is in my opinion, if I'm a third party,
5:40
I'm a third party, and I'm going to be honest.
5:42
If I'm a third party looking at this, somebody would
5:44
say I'm wrong. They would say you failed to supervise
5:47
your staff. You should have been auditing all the paperwork.
5:50
You should have been more responsive, or you should have
5:53
been more responsible and been in the unit more. You
5:56
should have done more arounds, you should have did more training.
6:00
Understand what I'm saying. Question, sure, answer, but guess what.
6:06
That's not my purview as the captain's security I did this, this, that,
6:11
and the third. But everybody has a job to do
6:13
in a prison. The officers have a job to count
6:16
maintain accountability for the inmate population. The lieutenants all oversee
6:20
the staff and make sure they're doing their jobs right.
6:23
And then ultimately me as the captain over the lieutenants,
6:27
I have to reassure that they're doing their jobs right.
6:30
But when you go back and you start going through
6:32
fine tooth calling through documents that you think in that
6:36
you know your staff are doing the right thing, and
6:38
now you find it out that people are fudging documents
6:41
and creating documents that or counting inmates that wasn't in
6:45
the institution. Question. Well, in this instance, it sounds like
6:50
somebody removed files. Answer and doing all of these things
6:56
that after the fact you're like, I can't believe this
6:59
is happening. Question. So if somebody remove files, though, I'm
7:03
assuming if they're trying to cover something up, it would
7:06
have happened on like the tenth, the ninth or the
7:08
tenth correct answer the tenth as soon as they found
7:13
out he passed away. Question and well, did a lot
7:16
of people have access to that room at that time? Answer?
7:20
It was at the time it would have been, And
7:23
it's not a room you're talking about wherever this file
7:26
was located. So when you come into the unit, you
7:30
walk into the unit. Question all right, this is a
7:34
good transition answer, all right, question, I believe that this
7:38
is a map of the shoe Answer right, question, can
7:41
you tell me what we're looking at here? Where the
7:43
staff located? And where would this file be? And then
7:47
where would epstein sell be? If you know? My understanding
7:52
is that his cell was the closest to them and
7:54
approximately fifteen feet away. Answer shit question, but that's without
8:00
ever putting eyes on it. Answer right, all right? Question
8:04
aside from video answer, So the office, bird cage office,
8:08
I'm trying to figure out which one is the entrance
8:11
into the unit. Question speaking of entrances into the unit,
8:15
my understanding is that there are two ways, two doors
8:18
that you've got to go through. One is in control.
8:21
He gets cut off by the captain. Yeah, investigator resumes
8:26
his question, accesses and then the interior is what the
8:30
shoe staff? And how did they open it? From the
8:33
shoe staff? Answer by key, question by key, Answer by key?
8:39
Question And what's the key called? Is it a gate key?
8:43
Answer it's a prison key. Question, Oh, just a prison key.
8:47
It doesn't have a special name. Answer redacted phonetic spelling question.
8:53
Excuse me, answer it's a redacted key. It's a prison key. Question,
8:58
But it's not like a special name that you call
9:01
it in the shoe. Answer no, it's the OIA number
9:05
one key question. Okay, but so they physically have to
9:08
open in order to get anyone in or out of
9:10
the shoe. They physically have to open. He gets cut
9:13
off by the captain after they open it. Question and
9:17
there's only one way in and out? Answer right question Okay,
9:22
answer no, but I mean, yeah, yes, precisely. I'm trying
9:26
to figure out even if this is orientation of me
9:29
looking at this is I'm trying to figure out because
9:32
I know this is this is the first floor. Question
9:37
I'm assuming there's he gets cut off by the captain.
9:40
There's your stairs, So I'm trying to figure out this
9:43
is L. Yeah, that's L. Then you've got Jay. So
9:46
he was on el Tier right question mm hmm answer
9:50
so el Tier, it wouldn't be like this, and then
9:53
you would have had the officer station, which this would
9:56
have been the officer station, and that's going to the
9:58
officer station. There would have been a file cabinet because
10:02
the desk go up around like this, so that file
10:06
cabinet sat right behind the desk. So hopefully that's better orientation.
10:10
And then the cell I think it's held here that
10:13
Jeffrey Epstein was assigned to was sixteen. Question. When you
10:17
say assigned to answer or something like that question, it
10:21
sounds like was he not in that cell? Answer? He
10:25
wasn't in the right cell. He was not there. He
10:29
was in a different cell than he was assigned. Answer,
10:32
you didn't know that question. No, Well tell me about this. So,
10:36
where so is the first time that he was ever
10:39
not in the right cell? Answer? He was not in
10:42
the right cell, sir. After we went back and we
10:44
started looking at the century paperwork and all that stuff.
10:47
The inmate was not in the right cell for six days. Question.
10:52
So that means for six days he was in the
10:54
wrong gets cut off by the captain. So basically he
10:57
was assigned to this cell. He died in this cell. Question,
11:01
But for six days he was going to the wrong cell.
11:04
So it wasn't like just the one day that he
11:06
was found dead. Answer, right, So they had him quartered
11:10
over here, but it was inmates already over there. And
11:13
then you understand what I'm saying, But he was found
11:15
in this cell. Question. I don't understand when you say
11:20
he gets cut off by the captain. Wait, let's point
11:23
to the cell, because I just want to get an idea,
11:27
but I think it's hell. I think he was found
11:29
on el Tier, right, do you know that question? That's
11:32
my understanding. Answer. Yeah, that's my understanding too, question el
11:37
Tier answer el Tier. Question again, I don't know the layout.
11:42
There's got to be somewhere where it says it on
11:44
this answer because that's G. Yeah, that's it should be
11:49
J and L. So when you come up the steps,
11:52
I think this was supposed to be that's his assignment,
11:55
this cell over here. But he was found in one
11:57
of these cells over here. Question Now do you know
12:02
why did you ask that question? Answer? Because what they
12:06
were doing consistently is is that they do cell rotation,
12:09
which is supposed to be done between every thirty days.
12:13
They may have moved the inmates, but they weren't changing
12:15
the Pp. Thirty four transaction in century. Question all right,
12:20
so what he gets cut off by the captain? So
12:23
the inmates were moved right physically, but the century paperwork
12:26
would never be done. Question, So he was supposed to
12:30
be moved, they just didn't follow with what the necessary
12:33
paperwork was. Answer, No, he was in this cell. They
12:38
must have moved him. In century they must have moved
12:42
them right, but he when the century assignment came up,
12:45
it showed that he was still remain assigned to that
12:47
cell instead of him being physically found in this cell. Question.
12:52
But what I'm saying is like it sounds like they
12:54
were supposed to move them. They just never did the
12:57
paperwork to say that he was moved. Answer question Okay,
13:01
so it's not like I mean, I guess they technically
13:04
put him in the wrong cell because he wasn't technically
13:07
assigned to that. But the move was supposed to happen,
13:11
they just didn't follow with the administrative part of it.
13:15
Answer right. Question So aside from the administrative failure, is
13:19
there any other suspicion about the fact that he wasn't
13:22
in the assigned cell? Answer? It was. And also the
13:26
suspicion was why did he have so much linen and
13:29
so many T shirts and so many blankets? No, we're
13:32
taught to get you one blanket, maybe two, you get
13:36
one two until you get two T shirts, two boxers,
13:40
two pairs of socks. Question was that question asked? I mean,
13:45
did you ask, like hey, redacted or any of that
13:47
shoe staff since then? Answer of course? Question? And what
13:53
did they say? Answer? I mean, they're going to be like,
13:56
I don't know, how would I know? Tion whose response? Answer?
14:01
But you know what that happens all the time, sir,
14:03
because I will tell you I could clean out shoe,
14:05
I've done it, and they could say I've went up
14:08
there physically, supervisors going in there cleaning out the shoe.
14:12
I think I did it three or four times. Well,
14:14
and then less than a week I could go back
14:17
do rounds and inmates got all the stuff back. Question
14:20
who was responsible for giving it to them? Answer the
14:24
staff because the staff have the keys. Question and they
14:27
just say you need more? Here you go? Answer, here
14:31
you go. Question well, would the staff do it or
14:35
would the lieutenant do it? Answer? I don't think the
14:38
lieutenant would do it? Question? So he gets cut off
14:41
again by the captain. It's more staff question. Okay, answer
14:46
because they don't want to hear an inmate crying. All right, folks,
14:49
we're gonna wrap up right here, and then the next
14:51
episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where
14:54
we left off. All the information that goes with this
14:56
episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
15:00
and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
15:05
this episode, we're diving right back in to the unnamed
15:08
Captain and his interview with the OIG inspectors. Question, is
15:14
having those extra linens and those extras, you know, boxers
15:17
or whatever? Is that a security issue? Answer? Yeah? Question?
15:22
And why is that a security issue? Question? Because ultimately
15:26
that gives the inmates the material to be able to
15:28
make homemade fashions and improvise nooses. Question okay. Answer, or
15:34
they'll build a t T and use it as an
15:37
escape paraphernalia, just like they did in Chicago. Tie that
15:41
stuff together. They broke out the window and the inmate
15:44
had a rope. That's why we don't give inmates excess clothing.
15:48
Question okay. Now, as far as this file, though, you
15:51
never found out where those documents went? Answer? I couldn't
15:55
find them. Question okay. And when we were saying people
15:58
that had access to this room, was it just a
16:01
flood of people at that point coming out? Answer anybody
16:05
that the people who would be most know about those
16:09
files would be the shoe staff question the shoe staff answer,
16:14
and the lieutenants question of course? And what would be
16:19
in those files that possibly people wouldn't want people to see? Answer?
16:25
I mean, the only thing I mean that would be
16:27
in there, like I said, two ninety twos, because you're
16:30
supposed to do them every day. Question and what are
16:33
two ninety twos? Answer? Two ninety twos? Basically are it
16:37
shows the inmates activities in the unit daily. It talks
16:41
about if the inmate, anytime the inmate is out of
16:45
the shoe, time, out of cell time. It's annotated on
16:48
the two ninety two, when the inmate showers, when the
16:51
inmate exercises, when the inmate eats every meal. Answer Now,
16:56
in your opinion, would it be would these documents be
16:59
missed because they were potentially falsified or because they might
17:03
show something about the death of Epstein? Answer? It would
17:09
show if he wasn't taking meals and they didn't report it.
17:12
It would show if the inmate wasn't afforded any outside
17:15
recreation time or any out of cell time. But we
17:19
know that he wasn't getting that because he was going
17:21
to attorney conference. Question Okay, answer, but those forms know
17:27
they wouldn't show that the inmate. You know, all of
17:30
that stuff is just administrative stuff that we track for
17:32
every inmate. Question. That's why I'm just trying to figure
17:36
out what would be the purpose of taking those files.
17:39
Another inspector chimes in, is there any possibility the file
17:42
was never updated? Answer by the captain? I don't believe that. Question.
17:48
And who would be updating the files? Just anybody in
17:51
the shoe Answer that would be the OIC. Every Sunday,
17:55
you're printing out all the two ninety twos, then you
17:58
put them in the file. So on Sundays, is it
18:01
one person that typically gets cut off by the captain
18:05
the OIC's Normally the OIC on morning Watch would do that.
18:09
They would print out all the two ninety twos and
18:12
they would put them in each file. Question do you
18:16
know at this time around the August ninth and August tenth,
18:19
who would have been responsible for those files and printing
18:22
those out and putting them in. Answer? That would have
18:26
been either the That would have probably been the shoe staff.
18:30
It would have been either It would have probably had
18:32
to be Tovin Noel. Question Noel would have been answer
18:37
because she was assigned to That would have been one
18:40
of the responsibilities of the shoe one. But that would
18:43
have been on Sunday. Question, Yes, Sunday, That's what I'm saying.
18:48
Do you know up until this point though? Like, so
18:50
if the file is gone, he's now there for what
18:54
almost two months? Answer? Indiscernible question would it be one
18:59
person or response or whoever is there on Sunday? Answer?
19:04
She wouldn't have known, so, I mean, she wouldn't have
19:07
that something unless you're the full time shoe. OHI see
19:10
that you wouldn't would be cognizant of question. Okay, answer,
19:15
she wouldn't know that question. So there's that answer. Question
19:19
for you. If he was put on suicide watch or
19:22
psych observation, would that file move with them? Answer by
19:26
the captain. When the inmate goes on suicide watch, they
19:29
create another two ninety two because he's not in the unit,
19:32
So that two ninety two goes down with and is
19:35
put on the door. Right, So that copy of that
19:38
two ninety two, Yeah, that's supposed to go to psychology,
19:41
and the copy is supposed to go back to correctional
19:43
Services to put in his file to be maintained that, yeah,
19:47
he was on suicide watch, This would happen. You know,
19:51
you tell the story, so yeah, yeah, it would, all
19:54
of that information would be in there. Question No, but
19:58
I'm just asking, is it possible it went to psych
20:02
observation or wherever that unit is and never made it back. Answer,
20:07
it's a possibility. Question, but then he's made But it should,
20:12
like you were saying, it should have constantly been updated.
20:15
So from July thirtieth through August ninth or tenth, there's
20:19
still to be extra stuff in there. Correct, All right,
20:23
So let's keep going here. Redacted express to redacted that
20:27
the staff admitted to her they did not complete the rounds,
20:31
the three am and five am counts. And that's so.
20:35
And that's all they admitted to was those two, not
20:38
the ones prior to that. Answer, right, So when I
20:41
talked to her redacted on the phone, that's what he
20:44
told me on the phone. Question, okay answer? He said, hey, cap,
20:49
the staff told me that they didn't do the rounds.
20:52
Question all right, answer and I said, okay. Question. And
20:57
that Officer Thomas entered Epstein's cell without tops. Now what
21:01
does that mean? Answer? That means that anytime, especially in
21:06
the shoe, anytime that cell, it should have been, especially
21:10
after hours, a supervisor should have been present. Question when
21:15
he went in to do the life saving measures? Right? Answer, yep. Question,
21:21
Now do you know was Thomas and Nowell. Were they
21:24
together and he walked in or was she like down
21:27
the range? Answer? I believe she was on the down.
21:32
She was off the tier and he probably went to
21:34
go do doing the breakfast cards. And by the time
21:37
it comes down the tier and he comes through, So
21:39
that means he didn't do around because he would have
21:42
saw him, right, So that means he's going around. Because
21:45
that's how feed. As soon as we come on, we
21:47
don't go this way, we go this way. So that
21:51
cell that Epstein was found in, I think it's like
21:53
the second from the inn, and so it's like the
21:56
last cell and when he was in that next cell, right,
21:59
So they come around the whole area and when he
22:02
gets to his cell, you observe the inmate unresponsive. So
22:06
what you're supposed to do is you call control Control. Hey,
22:09
i've got an unresponsive inmate, Send staff to the shoe.
22:13
Or I've got an unresponsive inmate, Please state the medical emergency.
22:17
Send someone to the shoe. Redacted to ops. Hey, I
22:20
need you to come to a special housing unit. Boom,
22:23
you come up there. You got a staff because you
22:26
don't know if it's a ruse, you just pop down
22:29
the door and just go in there. You're putting yourself
22:32
in jeopardy. Question, now, does this create suspicion for you,
22:37
the fact that he went in there by himself. Answer,
22:40
I've seen a lot of stuff at MCC as far
22:43
as with security protocol. I've written staff up for violations
22:46
of security protocol. That instance right there, what he did
22:50
wouldn't be uncommon question okay. Answer, because you try to
22:56
tell people how to react in emergency situations, and guess what,
22:59
everybody not going to say how they're going to react.
23:02
But we do tell them if you're going in the
23:05
special housing unit, you need to wait until a supervisor
23:08
comes on the scene before you pop a door in
23:10
the shoe. Question, now, do you know how he was found?
23:14
Was he hanging? Answer? I don't know how he was found?
23:19
Question was he on the floor? Answer don't know. I
23:22
didn't read the autopsy report. I don't know. Question okay, answer,
23:27
I only know what the news had reported. Question Okay,
23:30
it says Epstein was placed on the floor to administer
23:33
life saving efforts, and that's why I asked, I didn't
23:36
know if he was still hanging. Answer, I don't know. Question,
23:40
and he took him off all right, redacted informer redacted
23:44
about what Officer Noel and Thomas admitted to Redacted had
23:48
concerns about the whereabouts of Epstein's cellmate. Some of his
23:51
staff were under the impression that Reyes was released from
23:54
the shoe, which redacted later confirmed was not true. Was
23:57
not true or was true? You can from that answer
24:02
he wasn't released from the shoe. He wasn't released from
24:05
the shoe. Question he wasn't released. Answer he was released
24:09
from court. Question Oh okay. Answer, he wasn't released from
24:14
the institution. Usually it's from court. Question Oh okay. So
24:18
what they're trying to say here is that you guys
24:20
didn't release them. He went to court and they released them. Answer,
24:25
that's right. Question and he never came back. Answer he
24:28
never came back. Question okay, but he was released from custody.
24:32
Answer yeah, he was released in custody when he went
24:34
to court that day. Question all right, So this is
24:38
worded weird. The purpose of the three and the five
24:41
am count is to physically count and confirm each person
24:45
is in their cell. There were no entries of counts
24:48
in truscope the entire night. If technology is down, the
24:52
correctional officers also have the option to document the count
24:55
on a hard copy form. Although there are no electronic
24:58
records of count, hard copies must have been retained. Answer
25:05
that's correct. Question is it odd that they didn't enter
25:08
it into truscope that night? Answer no, it's not odd
25:11
because I told you on occasion the staff member would say, oh,
25:15
I don't have access to truscope. But however, they're given
25:18
hard copies of the count's slip, which continues for the
25:21
twenty four hour period. Question right, yeah, answer, so you're
25:26
continuing to do your rounds and then at the end
25:28
of the rounds at the end of the week. This
25:31
is how it's supposed to happen, because I actually put
25:33
this in place because that was one of the vitals
25:37
that we had during the program review, which we got
25:39
hit on. At the end of the week, the lieutenant
25:42
is supposed to get them and he will audit them
25:45
and make sure all of your rounds were conducted in
25:47
the forty minute irregular. If it's not, that staff member
25:50
is identified and then they're given counseling. So we're trying
25:55
to stop staff, you know, we try to encourage staff
25:57
to do the right thing. But if they're not. We're
25:59
trying to catch it on our level before it gets
26:02
reported out. So even then, you know the lieutenants there
26:06
was a sign up that there was it wasn't getting
26:09
done on a regular basis when I input when I had,
26:14
I have to counsel them. Where is my stuff? Weekly?
26:17
So I've counseled them. I've got counseling for that. Question.
26:21
Did you ever counsel either Thomas or Noel? Answer no,
26:24
I don't know if I have ever counseled them. Question okay,
26:29
answer no, but before this incident? No? All right, folks,
26:32
we're gonna wrap up right here and in the next
26:34
episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where
26:36
we left off. All the information that goes with this
26:39
episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
26:43
and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
26:47
this episode, we're gonna dive right back in to the
26:50
unnamed Captain's interview with the OIG investigators. Question did you
26:55
ever counsel either Thomas or Noel? Answer no, I don't
27:00
know if I have ever counseled either of them? Question okay,
27:05
answer no, but before this incident? But no question it
27:10
says all inmate phone calls in the Shoe are monitored,
27:13
and inmates have limited access to phone calls. All calls
27:16
should be recorded. Redacted was not aware of any issues
27:20
or complaints with Epstein related to phone calls. On Saturday,
27:24
August tenth, twenty nineteen, Redacted was told that Epstein made
27:27
a phone call at approximately seven pm on the evening
27:31
of Friday, August ninth, twenty nineteen. It's uncommon to make
27:36
an unrecorded phone call in the Shoe, and Redacted would
27:39
advise against it because calls should be survelled. Inmates can
27:44
make a recorded phone call in the Lieutenant's office, where
27:47
it's documented in a monitored logbook. In the Shoe, correctional
27:51
officers are not permitted to give inmate phone calls, but
27:54
a unit task member or the chaplain can take the
27:57
inmate to the lieutenant's office and make a call. Redacted
28:01
is not briefed on phone calls in the Shoe generally,
28:04
But in this case, you said that you did advise
28:07
Redacted that he could And where did the call take place? Answer? Well,
28:12
because I know between that time we had an installed jack.
28:17
Question okay, answer in shoe in order to do the
28:20
outgoing calls, so they could actually do calls in the
28:23
shoe though before the chaplain of course, So if you
28:27
had a shoe inmate, he didn't have to bring the
28:29
inmate all the way down to the lieutenant's office to
28:31
do a call. Question okay, answer, So there was a
28:36
jack up there in the I can't remember where it is,
28:39
I'm sorry. Question it's near the shower room. Answer, yeah,
28:44
something like that. But so we actually had the ability
28:47
to have that outgoing call capability for those inmates in
28:51
shoe because you can't bring them down to the lieutenant's office.
28:56
Question okay, answer, So you could do an out going
29:00
call capability in the shoe. Question okay, And so you
29:04
did approve that call and then just log it answer yes,
29:08
question okay and take care of all of that. Answer, Yes,
29:12
I did. And that was something that redacted said, and
29:15
redacted was actually I believe he was ido. Question and again,
29:21
what is ideo answer the institutional duty officer question? And
29:26
what does that mean? Answer? That means that every week
29:29
for a seven day period, normally people with a grade
29:32
of just twelve and above twelve thirteen's would be the
29:36
institutional or fourteens would be the institutional duty officer, right,
29:41
So that means they go around and they check all
29:43
of the institutional that they're taking calls after hours from
29:47
correctional services, they're reporting certain stuff to the region, they're
29:51
doing rounds in the shoe, they're doing rounds throughout the
29:53
institution in all the areas of the institution, and the
29:57
accumulated report which is given to the warden for their
30:00
review about the daily operation of the institution during that week.
30:05
Also part of that is shoe rounds. You know, they
30:08
make sure that shoe rounds. Everybody that's supposed to do
30:10
rounds within a week. You have to do them or
30:13
you get notified. And then you notify that Thursday or
30:16
Friday and you're supposed to go do your rounds by
30:20
the closeout. You only have to do it there once
30:23
a week. So that's just part of the duties. But
30:25
they bring the report, They create a report of the
30:28
total operation, any incident that occurred, the accounts in shoe,
30:33
if they were bad, anything that was going on in
30:36
food service, or if they observe certain instances during or
30:40
in general population that should be addressed by the unit
30:43
team or correctional services and stuff like that and so
30:47
that's what they do. Question Okay, and then this concludes.
30:52
Redacted wholeheartedly emphasized that he and his staff at MCC
30:55
did their best to supervise, safeguard and ensure the protection
30:59
of it Epstein and all inmates. Effectively, his staff is
31:03
aware of the seriousness of the investigation into Epstein's death.
31:10
Answer right, question Now, as far as what I just
31:14
read to you, I know it was over the course
31:16
of two hours, but I mean four hours. But is
31:18
there anything else you told the FBI or the OIG
31:21
that wasn't included in this report? Answer? Yeah, question, and
31:27
what was that regarding answer? I talked about that when
31:32
I or it was brief in there, but I talked
31:34
about Lieutenant Redacted's actions, talked about that one she didn't
31:38
do physical rounds in the unit because, as I said,
31:41
I went into true scope because I wanted to know.
31:43
Because I did all this within the time that I
31:46
got to the institution, I pulled up truscope and I
31:49
actually go in and I get to see where they're
31:51
logging in and doing rounds. Because once I pull up
31:54
those reports, because the two I verify off of, I
31:58
pull those reports up and show where the computer terminals are,
32:02
and all of her rounds was done from the lieutenant's office.
32:06
Question Okay, I thought, aside from the bad count, where
32:10
she should have went. She should have even with the
32:13
bad count, she should have been there observing an actual account.
32:17
Answer uh huh. Question in the shoe answer yeah, question
32:22
and what count answer no? No. What she should have
32:25
done is then done rounds? Answer oh, question in the
32:30
shoe that night? So between ten and six she should
32:34
have done around in shoe. Well, anytime after twelve am
32:37
to six she should have done around in the shoe.
32:40
There was no rounds. All the rounds were done from
32:43
the lieutenant's office. Question, Well, if she did, I think
32:46
we do believe that she did conduct around at four am?
32:50
Answer okay. Question So she actually physically went into the
32:54
shoe at four am and spoke with them, and then
32:56
potentially even came back and checked in a little bit later. Answer, dude,
33:01
it's been a while, I got a little busy. You
33:04
got a little busy. What question? Thank you sir. And
33:08
so if she did that one time at four am,
33:11
possibly another check in ten or fifteen minutes later, would
33:14
that be sufficed for whatever the duty? And responsibility was answer, Well,
33:20
that means if you sat there and you did all
33:22
your rounds. So I did all of my rounds at
33:24
the computer office. Question and never went answer in the
33:29
computer question continues, and she never she was supposed to
33:34
go to the control center and actually do the counts
33:36
from there. Right. Answer, Well, you're supposed to take yeah,
33:40
one of the counts. So normally we would take the
33:42
three forty five count or the five, either one. You
33:46
could take one of the counts. It don't matter which
33:48
one you take. You've just got to take one, the twelve,
33:51
the three, or the five. Right, You've got to take account.
33:54
You've got to go through to do a round in
33:56
the shoe, around in shoe, so you have to go
33:59
actually go physically to the unit, and then you're supposed
34:02
to do rounds throughout the entire institution. So if I'm
34:05
at the lieutenant's desk and I say that all my
34:08
rounds were done from this one terminal, because you're actually
34:11
supposed to go in I provided in card readers question.
34:15
So they're supposed to when they do a round, they're
34:18
supposed to log it from the unit. Answer from that
34:21
terminal question. Okay, answer, So that means that they can
34:27
go to a floor and they don't have to log
34:29
into both computers on the floor. As long as you
34:31
log into one on the floor, you're good. That's the
34:33
policy question. And is it just to show that you
34:37
are physically there and they're not falsifying the rounds answer?
34:42
There is question? Okay answer, So you can't just sit
34:46
at the desk and say I did all these rounds question.
34:50
I'm going to investigate the indiscernible of what the lieutenant
34:54
rounds entails. Question. You can ask again if you want,
34:58
go ahead. Answer, I don't remember if you did. I
35:02
apologize if you answered it already. When a lieutenant has
35:05
done around in let's say any tear and let's say
35:08
the shoe, what does that entail? That's actually another question,
35:13
not the answer, but it's by another investigator who chimes in.
35:17
The problem here is everybody's name is redacted, so every
35:20
now and then somebody pops in with a question and
35:22
it catches your boy off guard. Answer. They're supposed to
35:28
go to door by door, just like I explained to
35:30
you before. You're supposed to go into the unit, go
35:33
onto the tier, and you're supposed to walk and look
35:36
at every cell question and what he's saying, he just
35:40
to clarify, he wants to make sure that the lieutenant
35:43
that are also supposed to do that answer yes, question,
35:47
not just the staff and is that and again for clarification,
35:51
I apologize, but it's so much. We've got a dissect.
35:54
You know, we're going to have to digest what you
35:56
told us and listen to it again. But is it
35:59
every shift lieutenant should do that? Answer? Yes, every shift
36:03
in the twenty four hour period, rounds have to be
36:06
conducted by a lieutenant in show question. And so if
36:11
lieutenants are telling us that they don't think that's part
36:14
of their duties, they're supposed to just do rounds. Answer
36:17
they're wrong question or staff? Is that the policy that
36:20
says that they need to do that? Answer? Yeah, question.
36:24
So if they're telling us that, are they lying or
36:27
are they just he gets cut off by the captain.
36:31
I just think they're confused or unaware. I really do.
36:35
If it says that a lieutenant will perform around in
36:37
special housing wants on their shift question and then that
36:43
means an actual not around to check with the staff,
36:46
but around to actually looking at the inmates. Answer No,
36:53
that's around to walk around the unit. Question So in
36:57
this matter, when you're looking at these four, ten, and twelve,
37:00
three and five, which on our duty roster on both
37:03
August ninth and tenth, which lieutenant should have conducted the rounds? Answer? Okay,
37:10
so on August ninth, redacted lane should have done the
37:12
round in the shoe. Question but what approximately? What time?
37:16
Answer it's going to be from ten hundred hours only
37:20
twenty two hundred hours two six answer So the day before,
37:24
for August eighth, twenty two hundred redacted or redacted would
37:29
have done them. So I don't know who would have
37:30
done them on that day. And especially since we didn't
37:34
have a shoe, lieutenant, they should have done around in
37:37
the shoe because just like we had the PC unit
37:40
that was on the third floor, you was responsible for
37:42
doing a round in the PC unit. Question and are
37:45
you aware if redacted or redacted they were there? Do
37:48
you know if either of them are aware that they
37:50
needed to do rounds of inmates in the shoe? Answer? Yeah,
37:55
they knew. Question okay? Answer either one of them would
37:58
have done it? Okay. Answer So I would say normally
38:03
when I was operations lieutenant, I would have sent the
38:06
activity hey, go to shoe go knock out around questions,
38:10
So redacted probably would have been the one there answer,
38:14
and then for redacted I would have sent redacted up
38:17
there question. All right, so redacted or redacted should have
38:20
done around, okay, And it doesn't have to be So
38:23
when you're saying around, are you talking about the counts
38:26
or the rounds? It could have been any round because
38:29
rounds or thirty it would have been thirty minutes or
38:31
so are you talking about one of the main counts?
38:35
Answer so, just like a correctional supervisor or lieutenant is
38:38
supposed to make a round in the shoe question, I know,
38:43
But what I just want to make sure that we're
38:45
clarifying the difference between the thirty minute round and the
38:49
Because you said they should have conducted one of the four, ten, twelve,
38:53
that's account. So are they supposed to conduct a count
38:56
or just one of the regular thirty minute rounds? Answer no, oh.
39:00
On every shift within a twenty four hour period, a
39:02
lieutenant is supposed to make a round and shoe question around.
39:09
Answer a lieutenant. That's why I would say a lieutenant.
39:13
It specifies too, because I can't say the operations, the activities.
39:16
The admin know a lieutenant. So that's why we get
39:19
by on daywatch, because you have the assigned lieutenant in
39:22
the unit that's going to make the said round question.
39:27
So when redacted went to add four to the shoe,
39:31
she should have conducted around of the inmate. He gets
39:34
cut off by the captain of the entire unit question
39:39
not just checked in with the staff answer. No, she
39:41
should have made a round question, okay. And then that's
39:46
what I wanted to clarify around versus count because that
39:49
could have happened anytime in between, you know, for these people,
39:52
any time in between any of those counts, at any time,
39:56
they could have showed up and said, let's do a
39:58
round answer on huh uh. All right, folks, we're gonna
40:02
wrap up right there, and in the next episode dealing
40:04
with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we left off.
40:07
All the information that goes with this episode can be
40:09
found in the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome
40:13
to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode,
40:17
we're gonna get right back to the mcc captain giving
40:21
an interview to the OIG inspectors question okay, and then
40:26
That's what I wanted to clarify around versus count because
40:30
that could have happened any time in between. You know,
40:33
for these people, any time in between any of the counts,
40:36
at any time, they could have showed up and said,
40:38
let's do a round. Answer m hmmm, question real quick, okay,
40:44
question by another investigator, and when she made the round,
40:48
she just sees the person. She doesn't have to talk
40:50
to them. Answer. You walk around, and if it's at night,
40:54
you're going to take and shine your light in there
40:57
because you're not doing account So as a correctional officer,
40:59
you know, over the years, you're taught to look at
41:02
certain things in a cell. When I shine that light
41:04
in there, I'm shining. I make sure because normally inmates
41:08
will move their foot or move their leg or arm
41:11
or leg, So I would count flesh. When I see flesh,
41:14
I could check the windows real quick. Or if they
41:17
got stuff in hanging that's restricting my view, I could
41:20
correct it at that time. Hey take that down. Hey
41:23
you so and so get up, Take the covering down.
41:27
That's doing an effective round, and you do that for
41:31
every cell on a block. Question, what about the shoe
41:36
redacted is on duty? Is he the one that's doing
41:39
the rounds? Answer yeah, no, no, No officers are doing
41:43
the rounds. So when he does his rounds, it's normally
41:46
with the status report. You understand. Question So not only
41:50
is he doing it, but also one of the activities
41:52
or absolueutenants is also doing one. Answer No, if redacted
41:56
is in there, he's the one to do that round.
42:00
Question and then he gets cut off by the captain.
42:03
He's going to do the round because he's in the
42:05
unit all day. Question right, and he's actually physically in
42:09
the unit when he's there. Answer yeah, that's his place
42:13
of duty. Question all right. So then the you know,
42:17
the the ops or the activities lieutenants, they don't need
42:20
to then go to the shoe and do rounds on
42:22
that day. Answer no, question, it's only when he's not
42:26
there answer correct question Okay. And then obviously he's only
42:30
there in the day, right, he is not there at night?
42:35
Answer right. Question So whoever the ops lieutenant is at
42:38
night always needs to go and do it. Answer got it?
42:42
Go do a round yep. Question And that's what you
42:45
meant when you said redacted didn't conduct around you're talking
42:48
about she didn't actually do the inmate count the inmate round?
42:52
Answer right, because then she probably would have probably seen
42:57
the inmate in distress or something like that. Question and
43:01
do you know anything about when Epstein actually died versus
43:04
when he was found? Answer no, question okay, answer I
43:08
heard it was hours before. Question okay, where the shoe
43:12
staff are located on the map that you just drew,
43:15
could they see into Epstein Sell from there? Answer no,
43:19
but you could see, like if the lights was on.
43:21
You know, so if I'm standing down by the officer's station,
43:25
I could look up on the tier and I could
43:27
look down and if the lights are on, I could
43:29
definitely see if the light was on in the cell
43:31
or not. Question about how big are the windows of
43:35
the doors? Answer I would say they're probably like this.
43:39
Question about that twenty four inches by like ten inches?
43:45
Answer yeah, question or something answer or something like that.
43:50
Question okay, and they're always open. Answer yes, question there's
43:54
nothing that covers them. Answer. We do have the ability
43:57
to close, like when we have an incident on the tier,
44:00
we have an unresponsive inmate, we're giving medical you know,
44:04
if we're doing anything that deals with the inmates specifically,
44:06
will block those other observation windows off, so the inmates
44:10
can't see. Question Now, when the staff are doing an
44:14
overnight the early morning watch from zero from twelve am
44:18
and through eight am, are they allowed to sleep? Answer no,
44:22
you can't sleep. Question so if the shoe, if they're
44:25
in the shoe, can one sleep while the other stays awake?
44:29
Answer no. Question so no, one's allowed to sleep. Answer no.
44:33
Question Have you heard that they were sleeping this shift? Answer?
44:37
I heard that? And what camera footage I saw? I
44:40
could physically observe them sleeping. Question So did you see
44:44
them both sleeping? Answer? Yeah, Question so you did actually
44:48
review the video? Answer I saw, I did see that video.
44:54
Question Okay, you did, and you saw both of them asleep.
44:57
Do you know about how long they were sleeping? Answer
45:00
I can't remember that? Question sure, And is that a
45:03
big problem. Answer that is a very big problem question okay? Answer.
45:08
I mean, my thing is is that I understand that
45:10
you know you worked overtime or you was mandated to
45:13
work another time when I was a correctional officer. Guess what,
45:18
I'll go get on the tier, I'll go do rounds.
45:20
I would just stay walking in the unit. You know,
45:23
it's nothing wrong to get on the internet. But between
45:25
the time you're on the internet, you need to shut
45:27
it off and go do rounds. If that's the way
45:30
you stay awake at night, or do your OIC duties.
45:34
Audit what they're told to do, Audit the bedbook, make
45:38
sure all the two ninety two's is done for the
45:40
previous shift. You know, do all that stuff that's mandated
45:43
on your watch as you're supposed to do. Then do
45:46
those functions that'll keep you awake. Question yeah, answer if
45:51
you're doing the work. Question do you know if either
45:57
of these individuals, in this instance, Noel or Thomas, we're
46:00
on mandatory overtime? Answer? Noel was. I believe she was
46:04
going from evening watch the morning watch, and I believe
46:06
that Thomas came into work that as overtime. Question Now
46:10
Noel was mandatory overtime though, answer yeah, she was mandated.
46:16
I think she was mandated because if you see here
46:19
she was her shift was four to twelve, right, and
46:21
then if you see here as t O Noel overtime.
46:26
So if you go here, it's going to show go
46:29
to shoe one. So basically if she Yad says yeah,
46:33
if she was Shoe one. Redactedad hired her on five nineteen,
46:37
so it doesn't show if she was mandatory or whatever. Question,
46:41
so it could have been voluntary. Answer. It could have
46:44
been voluntary question. Okay, okay, great, And the last thing
46:48
I want to ask you about and then I'll turn
46:50
it over to redacted. Here's an email that was sent
46:53
out on seven thirty, twenty nineteen from a redacted. Do
46:57
you know who that is? Answer redact? Did that sounds
47:01
I think? Redacted? Hold on? She works in psychology? Answer yeah,
47:06
And it says inmate Epstein number seven six three one
47:09
eight thatsh zero five to four is being taken off
47:12
psych observation and needs to be housed with an appropriate cellmate.
47:16
Do you recall getting that at all? Answer? So at
47:20
seven thirty, inmate Epstein's going to be taken off of
47:23
psychological and needs to be housed with an appropriate inmate.
47:27
I probably did. Yeah. Question Now can you flip over?
47:31
You're going to see all like the lieutenants and everybody
47:34
in there if your lieutenants receive this, So do they
47:38
have to click on? Like? Do they have to? For me?
47:41
I can say, like do I want to send a
47:42
response or not? Answer no, they have to click on it.
47:47
Question right, So if they don't click on it, they
47:49
could still have read it. Answer m hmmm. Question and
47:53
it wouldn't say red response. Question or answer m hmm.
47:57
You could have to click on it to read it.
48:00
Question do you know what I'm saying? So, like if
48:03
I open an email, it gives me, it gives me
48:06
an option in my email at least, do you want
48:08
to send a read response? Answer? No, it's different Like onmine,
48:12
how I got mindset up, I could see the email message.
48:15
You know you can do that right, like onmine, Like
48:17
when the emails come in, I can read what it
48:20
is without actually clicking on it. Question so there's a
48:24
ton of people on there that it doesn't say read
48:28
answer right. Question do you think that they actually didn't
48:31
see the email or didn't actually read it? Answer? I
48:34
mean I believe it. Question So are a lot of
48:38
BOP employees then not reading their emails? Answer? Yeah, question
48:42
so if it doesn't read on there, you believe that
48:45
some of these lieutenants actually may not have seen the email.
48:49
Answer m hmmm. Question. Okay, that's fair enough. Answer. And
48:54
that's fair because I know if you look at mine
48:56
like I can actually monitor emails, so you don't know
48:58
if I read if I question. Well, that's kind of
49:02
my point is that like you can read it without
49:06
actually it's showing that it was read. Answer. Yes, I
49:09
can do that question. So that's what I'm saying. So
49:12
in this case, do you think that just because it
49:13
says gets cut off by the captain? Yeah, because like
49:18
redacted Reddit redacted Reddit redacted or Reddit shoe staff the
49:22
aw Reddit. I'm just looking at all of the lieutenants
49:25
Lieutenant redacted or Reddit the warden read it indiscernible Reddit,
49:30
So yeah, there were a few lieutenants that actually read it.
49:33
Question Okay, but just because it says that they didn't
49:37
read it doesn't mean they necessarily, like you, they could
49:41
have had something gets cut off by the captain. Right
49:45
picks back up where he left off the investigator set
49:49
up where it doesn't even show that they read it.
49:52
Answer right. Question all right, Before I turn it over,
49:57
can you just just so we know that the documents,
50:00
can you just initial in date the top of each
50:02
of these sets of documents that I gave you. Answer? Yeah,
50:06
right here, question yeah, just all on top, yep, just
50:10
your initial in date answer. I'm sorry, you know it's
50:13
taken all day. Question No, we really, it's super helpful.
50:17
There's a lot of stuff that you told us that
50:19
we didn't know about. So answer I was surprised you
50:22
didn't know about him being in the wrong cell. Answer yeah,
50:25
no that did you know anything about that talking to
50:28
the other investigator. The other investigator answers no. His partner responds,
50:33
but again that's an administrative error as opposed to any
50:36
kind of suspicious related to his death right answer right.
50:40
Question and then just the duty agent rosters or schedules.
50:44
Thank you, sir. Answer, You're welcome. Now we have the
50:49
next officer asking some follow up questions. Question just a
50:55
couple of follow up questions. Was Epstein given special privileges
50:59
anything like that? Answer? No, I don't believe so. Question
51:04
you mentioned that he was meeting with his attorney seven
51:07
days a week, and was that allowed for any other inmate? Answer?
51:11
I mean all the inmates are afforded that because while
51:14
they're pre trial inmates, they have that right to seek
51:17
legal counsel. Question okay. Answer, so it's up to the
51:21
legal council when they want to go see them. If
51:24
they don't want to go see them, every ninety days,
51:26
that's you know. But his legal counsel came quite often. Question, Okay,
51:31
the phone call the instruction that you gave redacted? You
51:34
told them that had to Epstein had to make a
51:37
phone call and record it. Now, if Epstein mentioned that
51:40
he wants to make the phone call to a certain
51:42
person and if Redacted dial that number, is he supposed
51:45
to identify that that's the person who answered the phone? Answer? Yeah,
51:50
like I told you before, that's part of the process.
51:53
So that's like if I call you and you say, well,
51:56
I'm so and so and I'm his attorney. Okay, fine. Question. Now,
52:01
if that person wasn't the person who answered the phone,
52:04
what was redacted supposed to do? Answer? Then he was
52:08
supposed to not give give and allow him to Like
52:11
if he was trying to call a mail and a
52:13
female answered the phone, if that meant is so and
52:16
so available? No, then he wouldn't have gotten been able
52:20
to speak to the female person that answered the phone.
52:24
Question According to the records, I think Epstein mentioned he
52:27
wanted to speak to his mother. Answer okay, I don't know. Question,
52:33
is there like a list that they need to go
52:35
by or just Epstein will provide the number and that
52:37
was it. Answer. Basically, the inmates are supposed to supply
52:42
certain people they're supposed to call, so like on their
52:45
phone list, there are certain people that we vet that
52:48
the inmate can call. So normally it's like over in
52:51
a religious person, your immediate family member's girlfriend or wife,
52:54
the spouse, children, stuff like that, past or whatever. But
52:58
then legally, if your legal contact or your attorney, it's different.
53:02
You know you can that's a totally different type of
53:05
call outside of what inmates get. Like if they pick
53:08
up the commissary phone and try to call, it's only
53:11
going to allow them to call those numbers off of
53:14
the phone list. Question, okay, answer, you know what I'm saying.
53:18
The proof form is the green form. But over here
53:21
they say, well I need to speak to my attorney. Okay,
53:24
I'll give you the attorney call. But if that was
53:27
the case, he could have been afforded or given if
53:30
he was calling his mother, if he had time on
53:32
the books. Because he went back to his cell prior
53:35
I think to sell the shoe. The cell the phone's
53:37
in shoe cut off at nine pm. I'm not certain.
53:40
I can't remember. He could have called his mother at
53:43
that time, and we wouldn't have had to facilitate the call.
53:48
He could have called her right from the thing. Question
53:51
so I just want to should redact it have checked
53:54
that list before he made the phone call? Answer yeah,
53:57
question okay. And the last question is if if the
54:00
order came from PSYCH. Right, it was just a question.
54:04
If the order came from PSYCH that Epstein needed a
54:06
cell mate, should they have come down to the unit
54:08
and made sure that someone else knew about it the requirement?
54:12
Answer no, Well, what do you mean question? Let's say
54:15
Psych that email came out saying that Epstein's required a
54:19
cell mate. Answer okay, So what would have happened is
54:23
if he would have been released because she would put
54:25
that out. So if the inmate was being released from
54:28
Suicide Watch prior for him being released from Suicide Watch,
54:33
that would have went to the executive staff. That would
54:37
have went to the Shoe oice the operations lieutenant to
54:40
inform him that he needs before he places him in Shoe,
54:43
he needs to have an appropriate cell mate, not a
54:45
vetted one, just someone because of what the Shoe policy
54:49
says that an inmate must have a cell mate, but
54:53
it doesn't say a vetted cell mate. It doesn't say
54:56
all these protocols, but with her, that's a general statement
54:59
that be made for any Suicide Watch inmate coming off
55:02
Suicide Watch. Question, Oh so she sent that email? Answer,
55:07
that's it. If you pull up any other email dealing
55:10
with an email coming from Suicide Watch back to shoe,
55:13
that would be for any inmate. But however, with him,
55:17
you couldn't necessarily do that because he would have to
55:20
be have a vetted cellmate. He would have to have
55:22
somebody appropriate for him, not just any cell that was
55:25
open single occupancy. Then you could have put him in there,
55:29
but no, he had to be vetted before he could
55:31
be in with anybody. Question. That's all. I have. Another
55:37
question by an investigator. Is there anything we're missing, anything
55:40
we didn't cover? That's it? Question? Let me see this
55:46
form right here. Yeah, we covered that all right. So yeah,
55:49
if there's nothing else on your end, then we'll just
55:51
wrap it up. Answer, okay, question, and there's again, there's
55:56
nothing that you discuss with the FBI or the OIG
55:58
previous that we didn't cover on this answer. No, that's
56:01
pretty much everything. Question, that's it perfect. It sounds like
56:05
you were with redacted was there anything else that she
56:08
didn't do that she should have done aside from that
56:11
round answer? I mean with redacted. I believe that it
56:16
was the issue with the log. I think it was
56:18
a log issue that we had talked about. And when
56:21
I pulled up the initial log after I got there,
56:23
when I pulled up the lieutenant's log, it appeared that
56:26
it was two different logs in the system, and within
56:30
forty five minutes, one log disappeared out of the system.
56:33
And then I see her leaving at about nine to
56:35
fifteen am out of the building. I don't know where
56:39
she was in the building, but at nine fifteen am
56:41
she comes walking out of the building and I reported
56:44
that to OIG when I talked to them, I talked
56:47
to them about the log being he gets cut off
56:51
and what was the log answer? The daily log question?
56:55
The daily log answer, the daily log lieutenant's log. So
57:00
there was two different logs and then one of the
57:02
logs wasn't right, and then when I went back it
57:05
had been deleted. And then I see her leaving out
57:07
of the building at nine fifteen am. Question okay, answer
57:13
on that Saturday morning question and when should she have left? Answer?
57:19
She should have left at six. Why was she in
57:21
the building for another three plus hours? And I brought
57:24
that up to the investigators, to the OIG investigator, can
57:28
I see the timeline? Question? Do you have any reason
57:32
to believe? Obviously, there looks like there were some people
57:35
that dropped the ball here, there are some like we
57:37
talked about job performance failure, security failure. Do you have
57:41
any reason to believe that there is anybody that harmed Epstein? Answer?
57:45
No question. So do you believe that he took his
57:49
own life? Answer? I believe he took his own life.
57:52
Question okay, answer I don't believe any of the staff
57:55
did any harm to him? No, I don't question. Okay.
57:59
And then as far as going back to redacted and
58:02
his logbook, when you saw that there was two it
58:05
looks like duplicates. Did you see what the discrepancies were
58:09
when you noticed that there were two of them for
58:11
the Deli log? Answer right, because I'm going to tell
58:15
you how I found out. So when I went into
58:18
true scope, I told you that I was looking for
58:20
the rounds because I was bouncing the log off of
58:25
what the round was. Because all of this stuff is
58:27
going into evidence, so I'm hurrying I'm trying to gather
58:30
this stuff. So the log, I'm trying to compare it
58:33
to the rounds. It's not driving. So I'm reading the
58:36
log and the log is totally just not driving the
58:38
whole thing, the times, the frames not driving. So then
58:42
all of a sudden, when I'm printing out the paperwork
58:45
from truscope, I go back and I look at the log. Boom,
58:48
another log pops up. So I'm reading this one and
58:51
then the other log that was there before is deleted.
58:55
Question and she has the ability to do that. Answer, Yeah,
58:59
question with this system reflect that she made changes. Answer. No,
59:03
it's not like it's not like the roster. The roster
59:06
is not going to tell you. You know, the roster will
59:09
tell you who goes in there and manipulates the roster,
59:11
but not that. But like I said, then when I'm
59:16
in passing, because I'm in the Lieutenant's office and I
59:19
see across, I look out because you know the alpha door,
59:22
the door that leads out she's walking. They let her
59:25
out through control center at nine point fifteen, I'm like,
59:27
where's she been all this time? Question? And did you
59:31
ever talk with her? Answer? I needed to talk with her.
59:35
Question did you ever question her about that answer? No question,
59:39
no answer. I let OIG deal with it because once
59:42
the file came up missing, she didn't report doing rounds.
59:45
The log was duplicated. I said, something's going on here.
59:48
I let her dactin know that. I told the Wharton.
59:51
I told OIG that was part of my you know
59:54
why it's not in there. I talked about the log
59:57
question and was that gets cut off by the captain.
1:00:00
I talked about her leaving the institution at nine fifteen?
1:00:05
Question and is that with the FBI present? Answer? Yeah, question, okay, yeah,
1:00:11
answer And at nine fifteen pm. She left between the
1:00:14
hours approximately nine ten and nine to fifteen am. Question.
1:00:21
Just so we have a note in here that says
1:00:22
the shoe count was corrected by the lieutenant log completed
1:00:25
by Lieutenant redacted at the midnight time, the midnight count
1:00:29
where she corrected it from seventy three to seventy two.
1:00:32
Do you recall reading that answer? Like I said, it
1:00:36
was all kind of discrepancies, all kinds of discrepancies on
1:00:39
that log. So I'm just trying to gather everything so
1:00:41
I could bring it before the warden to let them
1:00:44
know what was going on before we put it in
1:00:46
five eighty three. Question that's what we talked about. Answer, yeah, question,
1:00:53
we already talked about that though. Answer do you understand
1:00:56
what I'm saying? Answer Like, what he's talking about is
1:01:00
after these and I actually cut that out so they're there.
1:01:07
Question So no, but he's mentioning, from my understanding, you're
1:01:10
saying that the log afterwards or throughout the night. Answer.
1:01:16
When I was reviewing the log from that night from
1:01:20
eight nine to a ten? Question the morning watch log
1:01:24
for a ten because it starts off with this one
1:01:26
and then it follows like this, it was totally bad.
1:01:29
It was messed up. It showed it was a bad log.
1:01:31
And then by the time I was being able to
1:01:33
print that log, that log, it changed and then another
1:01:38
one was there. That's why I reported it. I don't
1:01:41
know why it's not. I reported it to the OIG.
1:01:45
Question Okay, so it was a log overnight log that
1:01:48
got changed. Answer yes, question all right, question, all right,
1:01:54
we'll have to follow up with that, but all right,
1:01:56
anything else? Answer no, that's it man. Question. Thank you,
1:02:00
that was very very helpful. Thank you so much for
1:02:03
your time. It's currently two seven pm on Tuesday, June fifteenth,
1:02:07
twenty twenty one. This is Senior Special Agent redacted with
1:02:11
the dojoig and I'm turning off the recorder, all right, folks.
1:02:16
So that does it for the Captain's deposition at MCC.
1:02:20
And the next deposition we're going to take a look
1:02:22
at is from mister Darden, another employee of MCC that
1:02:27
was questioned in the aftermath of Epstein's death. All the
1:02:31
information that goes with this episode can be found in
1:02:34
the description box.