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The Path to Law School for First-Generation Students · The Lawtino™

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Latino podcast where we discuss the intersection of law and our Latino communities with legal, political, and community leaders and visionaries.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get started.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_05: Hey, it's John Gomez.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome to today's edition of the Latino, where we discuss the intersection of law in our Latino communities.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_05: We feature uh community leaders, lawyers, judges, scholars, business people, and others that all contribute to this discussion about, you know, law, commerce, um, society, and our Latino community.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I'm joined today as always by David Arreguin, um, a current lawyer here at Gomez Trial Attorneys.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_05: He heads up our U.S.-Mexico border region practice, our corridor.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_05: We call it the border corridor.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_05: Um, he also manages our relationships with other lawyers.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_05: And he originally was a guest on the podcast.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_05: I'm super excited now to have him at the firm and as my co-host for um this podcast.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_05: Good to be here with you as always, Dev David.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, John.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Always a great intro.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so um uh before we introduce today's guest, um this episode as always is brought to you by our sponsors.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_05: Who's that again?
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_05: Gomez Trial Attorneys.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_05: Goldman's trial attorneys.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_05: So, uh, what is Gomez Trial Attorneys?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_05: What do we do here?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_05: What makes us special?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first of all, Goma's trial attorneys is from here and for you, that keep on a tea, like we always say.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and we're, you know, the leading trial uh uh training firm here in town.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we focus on personal injury, civil rights, and employment, uh assisting our local community.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_05: And uh we call ourselves binacional, bicultural, and best in class.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_05: Tell us a little bit about that.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: So uh and actually uh in one of the latest events, you actually said, Binacional, bicultural and best in class, which actually encompasses the uh the national part of it.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: But what that means is that we represent a lot of the people that either cross the border every day, their work here, uh, they put their you know time in, and unfortunately that they're in need of our assistance at one point.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then of course, best in class, just based on our trail record, uh John's reputation in the community, and then also all the great attorneys that we have in the office.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm real proud that we are able to offer white shoes super elite legal representation to our clients in both a culturally sensitive and um bilingual um way.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_05: You know, we equally speak English and Spanish here.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_05: Um, we have a big Spanish-speaking team, including me and David and other lawyers, and also our staff.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and so we believe, you know, today um we're one big community.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_05: Um, that is all of us in this region, uh, regardless of borders.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_05: That's why we also say that um we provide justicias sin fronteras, justice without borders.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_05: Um, we think that's important and what sets us apart.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_05: So without any further ado, enough patting ourselves on the back, um, let's welcome our esteemed guest for today.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_05: Um, we have with us today um Jorge Garcia, who is um the Dean of Admissions, I believe, also financial aid, uh, works on diversity at Cal Western School of Law.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_05: I think formerly kind of held all those positions in a matter of speaking at the University of San Diego School of Law.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_05: And so these are two of really the largest, most important uh law schools in our region.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and so welcome.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: Glad to be here.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so what we like to do first, we like to kind of get a feel for you know where you're from, where you grew up, kind of what brought you into this space.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_05: Sure.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so I I grew up in uh South San Diego.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: I I was born in Tijuana.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh my family moved here when I was uh I had finished uh uh elementary school.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I so I grew up, yeah, in in the uh Nestor community is what it's called.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I went to high school at Benita uh Vista High School and then um did a couple years at um Southwestern College and then transferred into UCSD.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um at UCSD is where I started uh my career.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: So uh I graduated with a degree in economics uh during the middle of a recession.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: So there was there was no investment job.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: So um I was a work study student.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: I I was uh you know a first generation uh high need student.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: And um I was working in between classes in the financial aid office as a student assistant.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: And when I graduated, I was uh asked whether I would want to stay as a as a financial aid counselor.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so I took it until you know, I was hoping that I would write out the recession and eventually go into an investment job.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: And the woman that trained me said, if you don't leave in six months, you're never gonna leave.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: So 34 years later, I'm I'm still doing the same type of work, uh working with students, helping them, you know, reach their their goals, right?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, help to uh help them find funding to cover their expenses.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: And uh so I did a stint at uh Cal State San Marcos working with undergrads.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I was the person that at that time I was the person that did uh financial aid presentations to Spanish-speaking communities.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: There weren't many who who were able to do that.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: So uh, you know, I would speak to parents who were working the fields uh back when North County was primarily fields, uh and do the presentations in Spanish.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and then, you know, eventually I was offered a job at the University of San Diego in the law school, uh, primarily doing financial aid.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: And um with it came some admissions of which I knew zero.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know any of it.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, my boss then started taking me to recruitment events and just by listening, speaking with students, I you know, I didn't go to law school.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: I went to business school and uh I started uh reading applications, and he slowly started training me to his eventual retirement, and then I applied for the position, and I was there for 18 years uh as uh both uh associate uh director and then eventually assistant dean of uh admissions and financial aid.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh in the the last four or five years I oversaw um diversity.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then um I was presented with the opportunity to come to uh California Western in 2021.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: And um the dean then was uh you know very inspirational to me.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: It it she talked about working with students who were first generation students, high need students.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you know, I figured that would be a good time to finish my career by going full circle and being working with students who you know I started working with and who I was one of.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so yeah, that's that's how I got where I am now.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_05: Amazing.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_05: Uh amazing journey.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_05: And so um I want to back up um just because you know, some of some of our listeners may have different experiences.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe they're in, you know, high school, uh, maybe they're in junior college.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_05: Like I heard that you are a junior college uh graduate.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_05: I know um that UC and the Cal State schools have amazing programs for transfer students from junior college.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_05: You worked in admissions, or I guess financial aid at Cal State San Marcos, so you know.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_05: I was a junior college guy.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_05: I started out at Grossmont Junior College.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and so uh, you know, a lot of kids may like I was a kid, you were a better student than me, but I was a terrible, terrible high school student.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_05: And so like all I cared about was football.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_05: And so I was out of junior college.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but you know, some kids might think, oh golly, I didn't get into Stanford or whatever.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I'm done, but no way.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: No, junior college is a good place to start.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, I back, you know, back then, uh college advising was very different.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, I was somehow they would separate the room and half of them would talk to like the metal shop and workshop, the other group would talk to AP uh professors, and you know, I was put on the room where uh the Marines and the Army recruited, and then the other kids would go and talk to uh the student, I mean the uh college uh uh recruiters.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I had no guidance.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so when I graduated, uh I was thinking of joining the the army.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that didn't work out, and I was like, it was July, I had no plans, and my mom gave me two options.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: You can either go work full-time or you can go to school full-time.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: You're not gonna come here and sit and do nothing.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I ended up, you know, started going to college, got a job, and uh so in a sense I was I was doing both.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we, you know, we just didn't, she could, she didn't have the money to put me through college.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: So the option was to go to a community college, which was fairly cheap then.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's$50 for the semester.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I met a very good friend who who then told me, you know, I I get money to come to school.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, what?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: What kind of a, you know, there's there must be a catch.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: And she said, no, they they like send me a check every so often, my Pell Grant.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: And and so that's that was my start.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: Oh uh, so that that's how I uh, you know, eventually went to the transfer center, spoke with an amazing counselor, and and she basically gave me a list of courses.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: She says, You take all of these courses when you're done, come back.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I I did that, and I did well enough that I was able to be accepted to UCSD.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: Probably with some financial aid too.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean it it there was like no other way to do it.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: So uh, you know, back then it was not as expensive as schools are now, and but I still, you know, my mom couldn't can afford that.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I I had a job.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: I was a work study student, and uh between earnings and savings and loans and grants, I was able to put myself through through school.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_05: See, that's the thing, like you going out and doing those presentations for you know, um, parents that themselves probably or most certainly never attended you know higher education in this country.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I was the same, like I had no idea like that you could get money for going to college.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_05: And everybody I was around was like, if you can either afford it or not afford it, you know, and we thought we couldn't afford it.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_05: Um so you know, I feel like hopefully now there's more information out there.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_05: I I feel I hope that kids aren't like, oh, I can't afford to go to college, you know.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, it it it's a matter of it information, is where it's at, right?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um if if you uh happen to find somebody that can provide some of that guidance, and hopefully high school counselors do this.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um there is a way, you know.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: It may not be linear, you may have to go to a community college, but the goal is to get to the the end point, and there are ways of doing it.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I feel like in many college paves away.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I will I I was also a junior college guy coming wait, hold on.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't that wasn't on your application.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_05: So look, we have three JC guys here in the house.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_05: So here's Were you at Southwestern?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, so I did Mesa College.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Mesa, we got everyone in town covered.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so the interesting part of people from Tijuana, because I graduate high school at Tijuana, uh, a lot of people there's no guidance, right?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: At all coming from Tijuana.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things is, well, everyone talks about community college and they're transferring to the university.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I did that, but one of the things that I've found to be very beneficial at junior college is the fact that you have like three sets of counselors, one with financial aid, one with EOPS, and one with a transfer studies.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: So it's also on you to be very proactive and talk to these people because I was able to get out of community college in two years, right?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: My grades were great, and then I was able to get in and to unpack the program at San Diego State.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I feel like what you are doing is actually letting people know what the path is, is what's important, right?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I'm in the process, and now I'm gonna have to pick a brain after this, because I'm in the process of working with my high school in Tijuana to give a chat to the kids in ninth or tenth grade.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: So they have this guidance as to how to get into a university or eventually go to law school, right?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: So Jorge, you're gonna be my two-go guide for that particular thing.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_05: There's a guy, he knows.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_05: And so um, like when you first started at USD in the law school I guess that was more than 20 years ago.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_05: Um like what did diversity look like at USD School of Law?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, um, well, I can't I can't speak for USD today because I'm not there.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but I I do know that um the person that preceded me was very aware of the underrepresentation of of uh you know people of color within the legal profession, and he did his best.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, he he did his best.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think that when I came in, it it might have helped in the sense that I they could see themselves in me.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I was one of them.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it might have brought a little more credibility to what was being pitched to them.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so I developed the connections with the applicants who became students who are now attorneys who are very good friends of mine.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I, you know, I to some extent I had a bet, you know, I had a vested interest in making sure that they succeeded because that would allow me to bring in more.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it, yeah, you know, it was it was very different from the profile of students at Cal State St.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Marcos, right?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it it was kind of like going back to when I was at UCSD.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I looked around and not many people looked like me.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: And um my goal was to help them find a community.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I was even though I wasn't a faculty member, it's kind of like the faculty advisor to La Rasa uh student group.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: And um it it just you know it was it felt good.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: It felt good uh to know that I was able to help.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yeah, so you know, I I think at the point I left, I think uh diversity students of color made up about 35% of the student body.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know what it is now.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um but you know, I'm at a school where it's a minority majority school now.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh really?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: So it it's like California.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like like it it's it it my my in my you know very humble opinion, I think that law school should resemble the community where they're gonna go into.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, we're a minority majority.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we have 40 plus percent first gen students.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_05: 40 percent, 40 plus first generation?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wow.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: Congratulations.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, thank you.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_05: Um and so, you know, I was I went to school on the East Coast and we had this thing, they called it out there, they called it Lhasa.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_05: Uh it was Latino Law Students Association, because a lot of our guys were um like Puerto Rican, like because we're East Coast, you know, Dominican.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_05: So uh they weren't feeling harsa.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but they were all about Latino.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but I remember like we would basically go terrorize the dean.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, we want more numbers, we want more numbers.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_05: And I think, like, I feel like back then, I'm not sure, correct me if I'm wrong, but this would be like I graduated law school in 1993.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_05: I feel like was there a time where you could overtly consider ethnicity?
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, I I think that uh affirmative action played a part to some extent.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: We, you know, USD is not a state school, so there was some leadway in that sense.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: Now, uh, you know, I also was fully aware that you know there were costs associated with bringing in uh potentially somebody that I saw academically would struggle because the worst thing that I would want to do is bring in somebody because they're a great person, uh, but their academics are not there.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: You put them through a first year of college, you saddle them with at that time$20,030,$40,000 in student loans, and then they fail out, and now you put them in a deeper hole.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: So now they have to deal with that.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I had to make sure that the students that I strongly recruited showed some signs that they were going to be able to do it.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the LSAT, uh, you know, it it's a standardized test, and and there are there's data that says that students of color underperform and standardized tests.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: So you have to look beyond that.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, the the GPA, the undergrad GPA, and many students will outperform the predictor that the LSAT is.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so you you want to look for people who are not gonna quit, who who are gonna, you know, work hard and dig in and you know, outperform and outwork everybody else.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, the hope is that you get 100%, and you know, it doesn't happen, but you you just want to make sure you just don't admit people for the sake of admitting people.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that would be doing a disservice to them.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_05: That is and ultimately it's your efforts.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you know, if if that happens, they're they're now they're gonna start keeping me from being able to take these, you know, these uh controlled risks.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I feel like I feel like, you know, like a kid who is maybe first generation, not a whole lot of guidance, you know, um maybe they're not gonna be, you know, a great standardized, you know, test taker.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe they're just kind of figuring academics out in college, so maybe the grades, they don't have like a mom who's a professor and a dad who's a doctor, you know.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um or even the funding to purchase the tutor program.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, those are a thousand dollars.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: And many of them just don't have the means and they self-study, but it's there's a difference.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was telling that sort of time.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it was this warning about that.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I feel like even for those programs, there's not a lot of assistance, correct?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, most of the assistance goes towards the school, but not the study programs.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh in in terms of financial aid?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you're you're not a student.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: So you're you have to figure out how to find the money to cover this exam.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this uh prep program.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that that is, you know, anywhere from a thousand to fifteen hundred bucks.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: And uh to many many students who are first gen, that's like, okay, well, here's the first obstacle I need to overcome.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_05: Plus, like a lot of those kids probably having to work, you know, like like little rich kids.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I don't make fun of, but like, you know, other kids might not have to work.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_05: You know, all they do is sit at home with their parents and they get their parents are giving them food, ironing their clothes, and paying for their prep course, and that's all they gotta do.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: Not the same starting point.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's what that's what makes my job not just science, but there's an art to it, right?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: You need to make sure that you just don't run numbers and pick numbers.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: You have to, in my opinion, you have to find the person.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: And in many cases, the person overtakes what those predictors are.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, there's uh there's a book I like uh called Grit.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_05: You know, and I feel like I've always been of the belief if you take someone that works hard and has strong convictions and determination and you put them into a pool or an environment, they'll rise to the environment.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_05: You know, have you seen that?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I I I've done this long enough that I know a lot of people who practice law in San Diego, and some of them were risks.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was like, oh I, you know, I'm gonna take it, but God, I hope he, you know, he or she uh does well and and they're great.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they're great attorneys.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's it's not a predictor of whether a person's gonna be a good attorney or not.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_05: That's amazing.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_05: That must make you feel pretty good.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: It feels good, yeah.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it it it does, it does, because thankfully I had I've along my career I've found people who gave me the chance, right?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: Who took a risk on on me and and to be able to pass that on, it's it's it's the right thing to do, but it feels good.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_05: And so um if you are you know one of our listeners, a young listener, thinking about law school, maybe first generation, maybe not even first generation, um like what tips would you give uh to an Firing lost in terms of admission to a Cal Western school.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_05: Sure.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I I think that, you know, one, you you wanna get information.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: And and you don't get information from Reddit.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you you need to get like valid, reliable information.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: And they can whether they come to my office or where they go to USD and and just ask to speak with an advisor.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: And but I know for a fact that both schools will provide time to sit with somebody.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: I have met with high schoolers who are like already thinking about it.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, my recommendation is that you you work very hard because your GPA monetizes.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the higher your GPA is, the less you may have to pay because your scholarship will possibly be higher.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and you don't quit.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: You just don't quit.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um I understand that not everybody's made out to do this, and wanting to do it is doesn't mean you can, uh, but whatever hard work you put into it, you're gonna come out stronger on the back end.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, we do we have high schools who come and tour the school and we we talk to them, and it's really it feels really good when you see we bring out a couple of our students, uh law students, and have them talk to them.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, they'll say, I I was right there just not that many years ago.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: So uh we also part of the California Pathways program that starts with college, um, uh community college students, and they get advising, and then the connection is made with a university that is settled to a partner school, and uh they go to one of those schools, continue to get the advising, and then eventually end up at one of the law schools.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, because it basically pays you with half, right?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that's the difficult part.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times, like how to get there.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I see what people are with attorneys, but how do you get at that point?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: And for a lot of my colleagues, when I was in college, I feel like one of the struggles was one, they were always saying, Well, I don't have money.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I go one has money to college.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that's why financial aid exists.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you gotta talk to people.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other one is like, what is the process?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, even right now, I know they have the LSAP, but I I know now like the GRE is considered for going to law.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what you say about the LSA versus the GRE?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Is there any type of predictor that will say, well, this person's gonna be in a grade uh law school?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think part one of the things that we have to keep in mind is that the LSAT, there's hundreds of thousands of people who've taken it, and and it's there, you know, that data is is very useful.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh for GRE, it really didn't become an option until maybe six, seven years ago.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: So in any entering class that I have brought in, there may be 235 J uh LSAT people, five GRE people.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: So the data you have to be much more careful because it's not as reliable.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: So you you rely a little more on the other factors, uh, you know, the undergrad GPA, making sure that you know that GPA means something.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: There is a difference between getting a GPA at a UC versus a GPA at an online self-paced program because it's it's just not the same.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you want to make sure you look at the other elements.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, are they involved in communities, have taken leadership positions?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, do they show a passion for this?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: Or are they just kind of doing it because they have a philosophy degree and they don't know what to do with it?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, there has to be a purpose.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: And you somehow, you know, in there, you you you try to find that grit that you mentioned.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I've I've read what 30,000 applications at this point in my career.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I and we've sort of briefly discussed AI, but I, you know, you you it just pops out when when you see it.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: You I can't explain it, you just know.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_05: I have a question, like so I I debate this a little bit with my kids sometimes, because I feel like uh my kids, you know, they see me a lawyer, their mom um actually was a lawyer.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and they at least some of them are like obsessed with getting into the best undergraduate they can get into.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_05: And and like, but I went to junior college, San Diego State, USD, and then somehow got into Yale Law School with like no help at all.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_05: And when I was there, like I feel like some of the kids that did best didn't come from these like Ivy League schools, you know, these fancy schools.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_05: Like they stood out like a state school.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_05: And I feel like if I had um somehow been admitted to and all my classmates were like valedictorian in Princeton and this and that, and I'm like, there's zero chance if I did that straight away, I would have like been a regular, like a C guy.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_05: Like, do you think kids get that have a path in their mind toward law school, they get too obsessed with what undergraduate school they get into?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_05: I know there's a difference between a UC and an online show.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_05: Sure.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, I don't think Should they get it?
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_05: Should they go to the best undergraduate school they can get into?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: Assuming no that cost is not a factor, I I don't see a problem with it.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: I I think it's it's a it's an experience.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, when you go to a school like that, you're generally not gonna be at home.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: So you're gonna be experiencing being alone and maturing, and right?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: So that's part of it.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, if you're somebody who this is gonna cost, you don't need to go to a school like that.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: You can go to San Marcos or San Diego.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: San Diego State is our biggest feeder.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: Both here and when I was at USC.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: And there are Macing attorneys that were San Diego State alum.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_05: Um thank you.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I was there a semester.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, so I I think that it it's not necessarily, you know, when I'm reviewing an application, I don't necessarily uh look down on any school, right?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I just want to make sure that the student was challenged academically to make sure that they're gonna be able to adjust to this this step up.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so so to answer your question, I I I think that if if cost is not a factor and people have money and that's what they want to do, and and and they feel they can succeed there, knock yourself out.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: But it's not gonna be necessarily, you know, it's gonna get you in if your your GPA is trash and if your L set is not good, I don't care where you went, right?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's not gonna work out.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I I think that uh the hard work is what we look for.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_05: And so you were sharing with us um as we walked in, uh I've seen it, some mention of it online, that application numbers are very much up right now.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, your school, like 48%.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_05: Like, um, what do you think explains that?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: So um there, well, yeah, there's there's I mean I'm sure there's several reasons, right?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think that uh usually when an economy goes into a some form of a recession and people can't find a job, they look at a graduate degree.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, in past years, you would see people like all of a sudden application to business schools or law schools start start bumping up.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this isn't really the case in you know now, right?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um however, I did see this happen in 2016.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: In 2016, there was a bump in applications.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: And it, you know, some say and what happened in 2016?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, then you know, that there was a change in administration nationally.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: There was a new president that came in, and there were people who didn't necessarily agree with uh Trump what the political uh points of view.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: And and so you see a bump in applications, and they tell you in the personal statement why they're going to law school.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not like I'm I was guessing, I knew why they were going.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: And and it happened again last year.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: There was another bump.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was up 30%, I finished 30% up in applications at the end of the year, I'm up 48% now.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: And what is the common denominator?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's this.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: So there had that's that's a factor.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's also, you know, if you read like business uh magazines, there there's you know, the the the market the employment uh market has sort of stagnated.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's not really people who are graduating from college are not necessarily finding a job right away.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: And they're telling me when they're applying.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think that's the second factor.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think that issues like AI and uh security, you know, cybersecurity, um, some of those things are also driving applications.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm getting a lot of people who who have technical backgrounds that uh are interested in cyber law or uh you know things like that.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so I think that there's some areas that are also driving applications up.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_05: Do you feel like you know, maybe efforts at educating um at-risk pop populations and first generation, like you're seeing like more applications from that demographic than you would historically?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that I I have seen that more applicants of color are are applying now.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and it's not proportionate to to the increase in applications nationally, they're outperforming.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that you know, many uh immigrants who came in during the 90s, you know, 2000, they're having kids here.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: And uh now those kids are going to college and and going to grad school.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: So you many of them are going to law school for specific reasons, and it's because you know, either they themselves or family members or the community uh have faced injustices and they want to go back to help rectify some of those.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: And the story is consistent, it's very consistent.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was you know 10 years old and I was translating things between my parents and ex-entity, and I saw how they were getting the a raw deal.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: And and now I want to go back and help rectify this.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it is a very common theme across the board.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think that going for law school to to do that is a really good idea.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's a good reason.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's not because I want to become uh a millionaire, you know.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: But they have a very specific reason why they're doing it.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: And they tell you, they tell you up front.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_05: I imagine, you know, reading that would be a powerful, you know, uh personal savior.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you can't fake your way through it.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: I I can see it.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's it's just it comes across that you're like you finish and stuff, oh my god, you know, that this is this is the person I want in my classroom because it'll bring in a perspective that many others have can't even think about.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I just admitted somebody, a candidate two two weeks ago or a week ago.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um he was the ward of the court.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh so he was in the system between the ages of 11 and 18 and saw horrible things.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: And he wants to go back and fix the system.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and and you know, he he tells you, you know, all these things that he's overcome, and you're like, oh my god, and you made it this far, right?
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because many of them fall off along the way, that many of them fall off.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: But the opticals.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, yeah.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, they're ill-prepared.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, he tells me he was given a$200 uh ATM card and uh and a bus ticket and 18.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: Oh man.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: And and figure himself out, yeah.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: And and yet he managed to get through, you know, uh high school, undergrad, and now he's applying to law school.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's amazing.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: And those are the ones that like you really are rooting for, right?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because they they deserve that.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_05: So, what is it like?
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_05: Um you attend the graduation ceremony?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_05: I do.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_05: Like, what's it like when you see like some of your kids up there that were kind of like wobblers and you got it?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: Cool to see that.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's very it's it's to to see the family, yeah, exactly.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: Because their family comes and they are they're the one per the first person to make it.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: And uh it's it's very cool.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, I've been lucky enough to have been inviting, have been invited by some of the students to their swearing in.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: That they'll wow they'll have a swearing in and they'll be family and like me.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: And that that is very cool.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like it chokes you up.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I'll bet very cool.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_05: And so um like I thought you were saying, like, oh, you wanted to kind of end your career, you know, at Cal Western, you know, because it's full circle.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_05: Like, do you have an end in mind, or are you just saying this is your last child?
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, I'm I'm 57.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I know I'm not gonna work until my 70s.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: I I you know I've I've been very lucky in in the jobs that I have had, and I have put my kids through college.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: And at this point, I'm just like, you know, filling that nest egg to be able to retire.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: And um so I I have no immediate plans of doing it, but I know that I'm gonna eventually do it.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, I mean, you know, I would have sworn five years ago that I was gonna retire from USD.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: And things change.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um I, you know, I took this uh this position, I built it to what I want it to look like and and what we're doing, and it's doing well.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I just hope that I'm able to retire there.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_05: And so, like right now, um like at Cal Western, I know that you're uh what do you call minority, majority?
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like what percentage of the kids there are Latino Musk or more or less than so our I believe our last entering class, it was 56% were students of color.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: And this does not include Middle Eastern students because they don't have a box to check.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh they don't they default to white.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: So if you add, you know, Persian, uh, Arabic students, they the numbers higher.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the the lion share are Latinos.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have the percentage, but the the majority of them are, and it's because you know look around wherever we are.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_05: That's pretty good.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_05: And so um, like I know right now, still licensed California attorneys like uh of Latino descent are still, I believe, under 10%.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_05: Does that sound right?
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_05: Or do you know those figures?
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: I know that nationally they're they're they're stronger in California than they are nationally, but I don't know the the percentage.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: But I I I do, you know, I I go to you know events, Let us events, and then they're everywhere beyond there.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, for sure.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_05: Doing better.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_05: That's the big uh that's the big show anymore.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_05: Like I remember like when I would go to those events like 15 years ago, yeah, you know, there'd be a few judges.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_05: Now every judge is there, like in something packed house.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: Aren't you like one of the first members or something like that for La Raza?
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_05: Lifetime members.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_05: Lifetime member.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_05: I I funded the first scholarship, they reminded me.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_05: I didn't even remember, you know, but uh I've always had like a strong passion for that because like there's zero.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_05: Um if you predicted me, like, you know, kind of like single mom, like terrible, like just academically lost in high school.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I somehow find it to a junior college, and then I'm at San Diego State, and then I end up at USD.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_05: Only reason I went to USD was to play football.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_05: But like there would you never ever in a million years predict that somehow I would end up being a lawyer and and have a decent success in that field.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_05: And so like that really strongly fuels my belief that if you take kids that have some grit and determination and a and a dream and and put them in, like they can compete with anybody.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: And and the pipeline starts in elementary school, right?
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's where you start sitting the seed.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like I went to UCSD to a great degree because my seventh grade math teacher at Montgomery Junior High, we did a field trip.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember going, I had never seen a college, and I remember going, and what what caught my eye was that they had foosball tables in the dorms.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, my God, this place is amazing.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then they took us to like the indoor pool, and you were looking around, it's like I I I I'm gonna come here.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I along the way I had found obstacles, but I, you know, I I I went there.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that exposure and that information, being, you know, having a a Latino attorney go to them and speak to them and say, Yeah, I you you can do this, it starts setting the seed, and you just need to take care of it along the way.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think there's you know, clearly the work that high school counselors do and community count counselors do is paying off because you're starting to see more uh Latinos in in college, and and those are translating into grad schools and law schools.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: For sure.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_05: Um and so you know, like we talked about um the different well talk a little more if you would about this holistic.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_05: So here I am.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like uh, I don't know, I'm a junior in college, and I'm thinking about like what should I do other than get good grades and do good on my LSAT to really and say like I came from a background like you said, first generation.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_05: My parents are immigrants.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_05: Like, what should I be doing to set myself apart, to demonstrate my commitment to community, leadership, all those kinds of things.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, many of those students, like the profile you just gave me, don't have time available to do other than that and work.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: And they work?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because they have to help their family, right?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: Or they have to cover themselves.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so many of those students don't have the extracurriculars than some of their counterparts.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: So if that's the case, you know, I want to know that where they worked, they were like a star, right?
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: A letter of recommendation from their employer would that speaks to the hard work, to the fact that they problem solve, to the fact that they're good team workers and they're, you know, the problem solvers.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's what will tell me, okay, this person is strong across the board.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then they'll talk about it in their personal statements.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they just, you know, many of them don't have the time to do anything.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I get the question, you know, am I gonna kind of am I out of luck because I can't do these?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, no.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I've had students who uh they had a Starbucks job through college and they had to work really long shifts because they needed the money, and their resume is like this long, and yet they still do well because they're great, they kept their grades up, they they studied hard and worked hard.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_05: See, I feel like if I was looking at an application and some kid worked at uh Chip-A or Starbucks or something like that, I would be highly impressed.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I can just show that so it's hard.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they may they may not be glamorous, but they're hard work.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: There's hard work.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, it also helps start developing their customer service skills, right?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because as I'm sure you know, as you attorneys, you know, there are some abrasive clients from time to time you have to deal with, and you know, that it's no different than if you're you know serving people in a counter, and you need to know how to like manage those situations.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so believe me, I went at I went at tables all through college, and it's not the easiest job that it's late, and then you work till like 11, 12, 10 a.m.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: and people are still there.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: But like you said, a customer service that definitely helps.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then it actually helps with conversations and understanding people.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so what you're saying basically is that it doesn't really matter what type of job that we're doing, just the fact that they were doing the best.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: That you want to be whatever it is that you do, you you try your hardest thing, and the hope is that you're one of the better ones.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_05: And so as you kind of talk or think about your philosophy in terms of your life work, um how important do you believe it is to have a representative, you know, bar and vents?
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's I mean, it's critical.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you you you you want to make sure that across the board there is representation of the population.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: That there has to be.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: And not only that, but it's also inspirational to applicants who who the best part is when you have an event and and you have uh uh you know a judge come and talk to like prospective applicants, and they're like, Wow, you're like I I would have never thought there was somebody like me in your position.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh whether it be a you know a partner at a firm or uh you know just some.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody of who who's reached their peak, that's what they need.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: They need to see that.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: They need to see that it is, it can be done.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: And they're no better than you.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: They just work really hard to get to that point.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: And you can do it.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: And that alone is what makes it important.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, for sure.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_05: We're blessed that our um our Chief Justice of our Supreme Court, you know, is the daughter of immigrants.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_05: Sure.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_05: You know, which is pretty cool.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: She came to uh Cal Western last semester and spoke, and what if I mean it's inspirational.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, she spoke about her her parents.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, if if she can do it, yeah, yeah.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure she's brilliant, uh-huh, but she also worked really hard.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, definitely.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, hard worker.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_05: Well, um, I feel like um, you know, we've or you, by virtue of your life's work and what you shared here today, I think, you know, probably kids will listen to this and have a career in leadership and law that they otherwise would not have had.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_05: So you it's almost like you were able to go out in the community and give your talk, you know, to some of our kids.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and so thank you for that.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_05: I think, you know, you just spending an hour with us here today will make a tremendous difference.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_05: And I just want to thank you for your commitment.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I know um during the course of your career at both USD and now Cal Western, like you have impacted tons of lives for the better and made a difference in law and made our you know legal community more represent to representative of the communities that we serve.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_05: So thank you for that.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you for the opportunity to come in and speak and and you know, hopefully a kid does hear this and and it'll you know change their perspective on that.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_05: Plus, they now know they can they can go visit.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: They can come and visit me.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_05: So so like once you do retire, what are you gonna do?
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_05: What do you want to do with your time?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_05: Other than visit your kids at college or whatever.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_05: Or their grandkids maybe.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: The type of person that's gonna go home and like do nothing.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm probably gonna do, you know, hopefully volunteer somewhere.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I remember there was this uh a person who worked for me who I asked her, what do you do after work?
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_02: And she goes, Oh, um, I go to East County and I teach uh immigrants uh for their for their citizenship test.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to do that.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_05: All right.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, just to help people.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there there's you know, especially nowadays that you know, there's a lot of people who need a lot of help.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_02: And if I can, you know, provide some of that assistance, then that that's what allows me to go to sleep at night knowing that you did something good.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, uh there were a lot of people who did very good things for my family, and you know, I just want to pass it along.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_05: Like that uh that teacher that brought you up to see the foosball.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: Mr.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_02: Cerna, I will never forget him.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_02: He he was he was a gratuity old man, but he was probably one of the first people who had an impact in my life.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_05: Amazing.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so um, well, thank you so much for being on the podcast.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_05: It was a real treat.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_05: Uh thank you, David, as always.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_05: Of course.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_05: Uh for your closing.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_05: Um, if you could write words in the sky for everyone to see um forever, what words would you choose to write?
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, uh, well, you know, I I I think to to quote uh uh one of our great leaders, uh Cise puede.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_05: Cisepuede, there you go.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you can do this, it's just a matter of you know, working hard.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we are a people that works very hard.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_05: We did have Dolores Huerta on here as our guest, and um, and she basically told us she came over that and I César.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, of course.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, all right.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_05: Well, thank you, sir.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you so much for your time, thank you for your efforts, thank you for all the good you do.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and so this concludes this episode of The Latino.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_05: If you like it, um like us, share us, um, keep listening, um, become and remain a member of our communities.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_05: Um, as always, you know, we believe it's super important to spread awareness, knowledge, and um enthusiasm for work for justice and communities.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_05: So um thank you again for listening.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_05: And uh this signs off this episode of the Latino.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Latino podcast.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you again next time, and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.