Latest / Harder Than Life / 127: 4-Time Stanley Cup Champion Darren McCarty on Addiction, Recovery & Resilience

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127: 4-Time Stanley Cup Champion Darren McCarty on Addiction, Recovery & Resilience · Harder Than Life

• 0:07
  I'm Kelly Siegel, and this is Harder Than Life, a podcast about self-love, self-awareness, business, and health. We tell outrageous stories and boil everything down to simple, practical advice you can start using today. Let's get living.
• 0:22
  Darren McCarty is a four-time Stanley Cup champion with the Detroit Red Wings, known for his relentless style of play, clutch performances, and legendary toughness. A second-round pick in the 1992 NHL entry draft, McCarty played nearly 800 NHL games and became one of the most beloved figures in Red Wings history. Off the ice, he's a musician, stand-up comic, and an advocate for cannabis and sobriety.
• 0:47
  proving that reinvention is possible at every stage of life. Buckle up. Get ready to be harder than life. Welcome, my friend. Thanks, Kelly. Great to see you, bud. Dude, thanks for coming in, studio. It's awesome. We were downstairs rapping about sobriety. We're going to get in deeper. But we're going to start off with what I'm sure you get asked all the time, which is about that day, which is March.
• 1:10
  What's the exact date? March 26. Take us back to March 26, 1997. What was going through your mind before you dropped the gloves with Cloud in the Moon? Well, yeah, obviously, I refer to March 26, 1997 as Red Wing D-Day.
• 1:25
  Right. Because why? Because I can tell the story before or after. Now you got to understand, uh, Darren McCarty is a kid that grew up in Leamington, Ontario, which means give or take 10 minutes for the border. My house to Joe Louis arena was 40 minutes. Ooh.
• 1:41
  So I grew up a Red Wings fan, but you got to remember, I'm going to be 53 years old, so I was born in 72. So in the late 70s, early 80s, the Red Wings sucked. But we could beat people up. Fast forward, being drafted to Detroit in 92, making the team in 93. It got up to the culmination of...
• 2:02
  Where we not only lost in 95 in the cup finals, but had set the league record in 96 with the most wins in the season and got down to game six of the, of the conference finals. And in the first period of that game, my centerman, my best friend in life, I was the best man in his wedding. Chris Draper was hit from behind by the, in, in wrestling, they call them heels, but it's bad guys.
• 2:30
  the most biggest villain in the NHL that everybody hated because he was dirty because he was a backstabber because he was a cheap shot artist. He was a good hockey player, but he was dirty and Claude Lemieux hit Chris Draper from behind, broke his jaw in four spots, crushed his orbital bone. Um, and we lost that game and lost the series. And, um,
• 2:49
  This is the most important part of the story is when I tell everybody is that in life and sports, bad things happen, but you cannot lose respect for a fellow human being. And because Claude Demieu decided not to apologize, decided to say that it was Chris Draper's fault and it was part of the game and screw him and he probably made millions of dollars.
• 3:08
  Well, he made a decision in life, just like anybody else does. And so fast forward, that was in May of 96. Fast forward to March of 97, which was the fourth and final time in the regular season we played Colorado. Now, I mentioned we lost to them in the playoffs. We hadn't beaten them in the regular season at all, and it came down to Joe Louis Arena. Now, yeah.
• 3:31
  Where we were at, we had to win the game because anytime you face rivalries, anybody can understand it growing up, whether it's your high school rival or your club team rival, whatever. There are rivalries. The only way out is through. So winning the game was most important. But getting revenge on Claude Lemieux as a hockey player was also up there, but it had to be the right time. And it just so happened that...
• 3:53
  with under five minutes left in the first period, the biggest, strongest monster, all 5'5", 140 pounds, soaking wet Igor Larionov, the professor, right, started it with Peter Forsberg and started slapping each other inside of the head. And I was on the ice, and I remembered I looked over, and I was like, oh, it looks like puppies on Christmas morning. How cute. But I knew Lemieux was on the ice, and this was my chance.
• 4:20
  Unfortunately, Adam Foote, their big, strong defenseman, knew this also, and he grabbed me, and it was tough for me to get loose, but I had a secret weapon, and Brendan Shanahan, my teammate, came, knocked Foote's arms loose, got me loose, and I was able to exact some sort of revenge in finding Claude Lemieux, and I tell everybody the difference between a call cock and a sucker punch. Well, a sucker punch is from behind.
• 4:49
  99.9%. You don't want to do it. That's cheap and that's dirty. But a cold cock, when you look somebody straight in the eyes and you pull back and you hit them with everything you have, that's what happened there. And I tell everybody the irony, Kelly, I'm a lefty.
• 5:05
  This time I pulled my right arm back and every man, woman, and child in the Red Wing Nation was in that fist. And when I hit Claude Lemieux, I folded him into a turtle, which isn't true. He said he was the hardest he'd ever been hit. And I was like, well, thank God it's the hardest I could ever hit you.
• 5:23
  And that's just the start. So I go down to feed him because I'm not happy with it, right? You know, get the revenge. Patrick Wilde, their goalie comes out of the net. Brendan Shanahan, him and Patrick Wilde are jumping at each other. Mike Vernon and goalies are fighting everything like that. I don't know because I took Claude Mew's head and I smashed it on the boards. And then I took my knee. And to this day, which, by the way, I got, I took my knee and I planted it on his forehead.
• 5:52
  To this day, he's got a welt on his forehead when he looks in the mirror every day to remind him not to be stupid. But for all this, I got fined $2,500, got four minutes for roughing and a 10-minute misconduct. The irony is I stayed in the game.
• 6:07
  We were now 5-3 in the third. We tied it up, and I, Darryl McCarty, scored the overtime winner. So I not only got to slay the dragon, I got the girl. And why is that so important? Because Red Wing D-Day, because that enabled us and gave us the confidence, no matter who you were, that our team was tough enough, our team was good enough, and three months later, we beat Colorado in the conference finals and moved on to win our first Stanley Cup in 42 years.
• 6:35
  So it's a lot of what's going on with the Lions right now. So just to reset that, 96 Colorado won the cup, right? Yeah. So they were the big bad dragon. We couldn't beat them. You guys couldn't beat them. And then you beat them to death. And then you almost have to overcome that. My greatest, and this goes in life. This isn't in sports, but everything, is that my greatest successes are –
• 6:59
  Coming back from failures, right? I thought this year when you use the Detroit Lions, because the same thing that I feel and I see is the culture.
• 7:09
  When Dan Campbell talks, I mean, and I always say this in sports too. When you're an athlete and the guy next to you is more important to you than you are to yourself, you have a chance to win. Now, I was fooled a little bit this year. I thought this was 96, 97 Red Wings. We're going to sit here and we're, you know, as we're recording this, the Super Bowl is going on.
• 7:31
  on the weekend and i thought we'd be a part of it but unfortunately this might be more like 96 so you know what two years in a row uh losing the way we did to san francisco going out the way we did this year to washington so you look in the room you say are these guys resilient do these guys have tasks at hand are they get this going to make them better yes the same way that it made us better so how far away from windsor did you grow up
• 7:56
  30 minutes. So it's a suburb of Windsor. So you literally, when you said he made a decision, you took me back to my childhood. I grew up in Detroit. You grew up in Windsor. Detroit and Windsor, we'd go over the board. 100%. And party and fight. It's like, these kids don't know nowadays the consequences that if you said something, you can't be a keyboard tough guy back then, you'd get crazy.
• 8:19
  Punch right in the mouth. I went from telephone tough guy to keyboard tough guy. Like you said, I guess the difference with society these days, everybody's so... That's why if I'm doing a good job, I don't read comments because that only puts...
• 8:36
  me wanting to put people's names on the list. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, so say it. So I figured if, if somebody's, if I, and then it comes down to respect, right? Kelly. So, you know what? I have much more respect. Somebody who disagrees with me or has an opinion that will, you know,
• 8:51
  come and have a conversation with me. And then we can move on. We come from a generation that it's okay to disagree. Oh, yeah. Right? It's okay. Now, you may like this thing or that or think this is cool. And I may say, dude, you're so stupid. That sucks. And you'd be like, no, F you, bro. I love it. But there was a level of respect. And that's what's lost, right? So why is there no more fighting in the NHL? Why is it so bad? That was when it was great.
• 9:19
  I just think the game's changed. And here's, so here's my stance on that. Here's the old man on the, on the, on the get off my lawn. It's not like us guys that played that style. It's accountability, right? And it's accountability. Accountability.
• 9:35
  um to yourself and the fact that you would go out there and do something that somebody would hold you accountable for the only accountability these days is to your wife for your girlfriend your paycheck right because they find guys so so the lack of respect between the players it's a skill league it's a speed league you look at the way that kids have matured and a younger age you got 18 19 20 year olds that are coming in and being elite players and
• 10:00
  They have all the talent, but there's no individualism. Now, the best thing about hockey, though, is that if any sport reverts back...
• 10:10
  At all, a little bit in playoffs, it's hockey. So playoff hockey in regular season, it's a little bit different. But to me, it's accountability. You still see it now, now and then. The biggest thing is it's the cheap shots. And the guys that, you know, that aren't held accountable for running their mouth or, you know, putting their stick up a little high or doing...
• 10:32
  doing some things there's there's not accountability like we used to say the anticipation of death is worse than death itself meaning there's a couple guys on the end of the bench that are gonna come see you before the end of the game whether you like it or not you know like a lot of times it's like if we're gonna get in a fight let's get it over with i don't want it to resonate you've been open about your struggles with addiction so what was the turning point that made you commit to the
• 10:57
  Let's bring that all the way back to your childhood. Like, for me, I grew up, this is the norm. It was drinking and partying. That's what you did. Yeah, I grew up, I mean, with a, you know, from drinking was, you know, accepted. You know, even from, I mean, 12, 13, 14 years old. It was 19, right? The drinking age was 19 when we were. Yeah, 19. But, I mean, all of us started drinking at 12, 13, 14, doesn't it?
• 11:20
  You know, the biggest misnomer was always, and it comes from a generation where it's like, oh, here, drink this. You can have, you know, drink anything you want. You're hammered, stuff like this, but don't ever smoke this. Don't smoke weed. You know, you're either stoner or you can't be a professional athlete, right? Which is such the dichotomy because of education anyways to what saved my life. Now, I've always struggled with it, right? Like, I mean, it was, and I'm the one that has gone, every time we won a cup, I've been sober.
• 11:47
  I'd gone 10 years. I quit drinking the first time when my son was born in the summer of 96. I didn't touch a drink until I was in Hawaii in the summer of 2006. Wait a minute. Stop right there. Because I've never had anybody on the show that went back. What made you go back to drinking? This ties up with everything that I believe, right? Right.
• 12:10
  It's looking yourself in the mirror and liking who you are. So for me, I always live with the shame of I knew who I was to everybody else. I knew who DMACC was when I was six years old. I didn't know who Darren was until I was 46 because I knew what I meant to everybody else. Now it's sort of the balance. Now you get the best of both.
• 12:30
  I mean, DMACC is in there, but Darren runs the show. And that was never the case, right? So for whatever, and I went back and you know what? A million percent when they tell you, no matter where you started or where you ended off and how much time you put in, you go back. You're right where you were. Yeah, but you had the time that you were.
• 12:51
  So you think you got, yeah. So you think you got to figure it out and you think you can do it better. But, but I believe alcoholism is a disease. I believe, but there's also two is there's ways to do it. The one thing that always held me back because I've done 25,000 hours in AA. I live by the principles of Alcoholics Anonymous, except my program has a garden in it.
• 13:17
  That's it. And the difference between what I, and I will get there and I will argue with anybody because fuck you. You tell me in this book that I've read a million times or whatever, that it's my program and I have to work my program. So what do you care? Now the greatest thing too is we're in 2025 and I have all the education. I have all, you know, whatever you need that I can shove it up your ass and,
• 13:43
  With proof, right? So with that, I'm sorry, I get fired up on this. No, no, I can tell. Because you know how many people have died because of this stigma or this misnomer with the plant? So for me, I relapsed in 2006, went back to rehab in 2007, and I was like,
• 14:01
  Came back for my fourth cup. Came back, played the IHL, played the AHL, found my way onto the roster, played 17 games, won the cup in 08. Played the 08-09 season. And after that, again, it was, didn't know who I was. And slowly think you got to figure it out. And from 2009 to 11-11, November 11th, 2015, I was playing, leaving Las Vegas.
• 14:27
  Nicholas, like not trying, but literally, literally I was drinking myself to death. I was 80 pounds heavier. I had, why did I eventually quit? I had, I had a, and I would say probably any, a week to live.
• 14:48
  When I had my, my organs were going to explode. My intestine, I was going to explode. Everything was shutting down. You know, it got so bad that, that if I would, and, and the thing with alcohol is because you can't quit cold Turkey. And the fact is that because it'll kill you. But the fact is that I'd even go and just try to limit myself to a beer or two a day. I drink one beer and I'd be fucked.
• 15:13
  I got to interrupt because I tell you, I went cold turkey, and it was not the right. I'm glad you brought that up. So if people are drinking like to that level and you go cold, I had withdrawals. Like, I was shaking. No, you could have died. Because I did. That's all I know. Turn the switch on. Turn the thing off. I didn't know any better. Did you ever figure out why you drank? For me, it made me feel lovable. My parents always told me, you're unlovable.
• 15:42
  You're going to melt nothing. So I drank and I was that guy. I was, you called it DMACC. I was Kelly Effin Siegel. And I was the man. And then when I realized I could be the man without the alcohol, did you ever figure that out?
• 15:58
  Yeah, that's the, again, to your point, that's why I am dedicated to this plant because without Rick Simpson or RSO, this plant too, it's concentrated. That's why I did, that's how I did my detox. And I recommend it if you can, but I'm married to a nurse doctorate, nurse masters. I'm married to the end all be all of nurses, right? So I could do it in my house, in my garage, but I'm seven and a half days of 10 to 15 grams. Yeah.
• 16:27
  of the tar, Rick Simpson oil, which they use to cure cancer, is putting in my system. So I'm purging all the...
• 16:35
  All the chemicals and all the alcohol and whatever. I'm either shitting, puking, or passed out for seven and a half days. Yeah, I shit my pants like four times. Wait, wait, this tar stuff. What is it? It's Rick Simpson oil. So it's the plant, and this is the irony of it. Wait, wait, hold on. You know what, guys? We just jumped right into this. So he has his own cannabis line, and he's promoting this as, first of all, it's good cannabis, but it's,
• 16:59
  He's saying this is what he's an alternative. It's a different question. Right. So don't even bring the cannabis brand. This is strictly talking about what got the physical addiction. Because if you understand people who are like me, you ask that question. And I guess at the end of the day is like I was living. I didn't like who I was.
• 17:22
  Same thing I was. Right? And not that I didn't feel loved or not that I had a bad shit. No, I always that. But it was just I didn't know. Like, I knew who I was to everybody else, but I didn't know who I was to myself. You know? So the bottom line when I'm talking about this Rick Simpson and all this RSO, it's the plant taking...
• 17:40
  taken all the cannabinoids and everything down, crushed, and it's actually the way that it's made. It's through pure alcohol, right? So you're actually saving yourself. So it's in this tar form, and they use it medically. It's big for skin cancer, stuff like this. So that's how I got the physical addiction. After seven, when I got up, when I came out of my slumber or whatever, I was on my knees because I didn't have that physical addiction.
• 18:07
  burden on me I was already spiritually mentally ready right so when that I remember the moment because I got on my knees and I cried and I fucking was so grateful and then Kelly I got mad I got mad because how many people had died because I know the stigma that it kept me behind from finding the therapeutical uses or really getting into it that it could change my life and then that's when I said well
• 18:37
  I'm going to dedicate my life to this plant because it saved my life. That's the reason I'm here. And then, so that was just over nine years ago. And that's why I created the brand. That's why I created, so I'm an alcoholic insomniac. So here's the thing. I don't know if you know this. There's over 200 dispensaries in Michigan. So if my product is out in at least 100, 120 of them, I have no excuse to ever use again because my stuff is,
• 19:06
  It's everywhere. Right? For me, that's how you want to go to where does my ego sit? There it is. I got to protect myself from myself. Now, alcoholic insomniac. So the strains that I and the medicine that I put out in whatever form
• 19:23
  is for me and what I use in different ways in the education, right? We all have an endocannabinoid system, right? But it's different. So you got to figure out what yours needs as to figure out to what mine needs. And that's all it is. Cannabis is an option.
• 19:41
  And that's all I presented. And it might be for you. It might not be for you. Just like we have a conversation, dude, like you were saying, you got booze all over the place and stuff like this. Right? No, no, no. But it's not, it's because it's not a trigger for you. It's not a trigger for me or whatever, but other people. So self-awareness to what you're dealing with in yourself. Number one rule in my world.
• 20:05
  Don't lie to the person in the mirror. No matter how, because I used to, I couldn't stop and look at him. I was so ashamed. I knew I was to everybody else till one day I stopped and I said, I'm not dealing with you like this. And he looked at me and he said, hope you're alive when you come back. And I was like, swarmy. I like that.
• 20:25
  I broke that, you know, like to me. So it's being true. So the difference between me today and the hockey player, whatever like that I was, is Darren leads the way, not DMACC.
• 20:40
  I'm proud of you, man. Thank you. I'm going to share a story we talked about before we hit record because I wanted the audience to know where we came from. And I shared that I had a boat that was next to Chris. We've crossed paths. We've crossed paths where we were drinking in our drinking days. And just I remember seeing you that night. You were on my boat. We were here.
• 21:00
  hammered and just having a good time it was fun but there was you were just we both were not there we were there physically but not there looking at you now and listening to you and you getting all fired up and you're spitting on the microphone you're all excited because you're doing something and this is you winning this was back in the day you were winning the state of the cups you were the tough guy of Detroit and now I see a man who's proud and is happy and you've done the work so
• 21:25
  Everybody can do it, and I love that you're out loud and proud. And there's depth to you, man. There's a lot of depth to you. You're not just a big tough guy with red hair. There you go. If you watch this on YouTube, look at his tattoos, man. I'm proud. So I got 11-11s, my sobriety date. I got this cross 23rd generation in Old Jerusalem. It was over there in 2015. This one's my former bass player in Grindr. It's all about rock who passed away in 2005, which...
• 21:55
  sort of put that at book but grinder is still around we will be playing and stuff this is band that that if you're from detroit you know about it so i i we're gonna bounce all over a lot of things so you played with some legends eiserman lindstrom shanahan hasick who is the biggest influence on your career and by the way i didn't know that you were the best man draper's wedding oh yeah
• 22:17
  Chris Draper, he's like a little big brother, right? But we were all, but just the way that he was always look out and make sure, and even back in the day, because I was Chris.
• 22:30
  That was wild. I just told the story. I would listen to him. Between Drapes and Steve Eisenman, too, like, here's one thing I always say. All right, in this life, and this has nothing to do with marriage, but you will be someone's bitch. So whose bitch are you? Now, for me, it took me three years to figure out that Steve Eisenman picked on me and rode me like a camel because...
• 23:00
  He loved me and because he wanted better for me. I realized that as I got older, but you know, so like I, to this day, he runs me the hardest out of anybody, but it's like out of care. So all those guys you mentioned have a special, special place because of what we accomplished. But to this day, we're as close, you know, even in a different way. And I think, you know, to your point,
• 23:23
  not speaking for them, but if you ask them, I think that where I've gotten to, too, is what they're most proud of for me because, like, it's the brother, and that's all they ever wanted is just to me to be okay. And then they understand.
• 23:39
  Like all the different things, like what it is. So there's support. And it doesn't have to be the rah-rah whatever, but I feel it. And I've always felt it. And it's that love. And even you understand this. Because like I said, between 2000, like so between, and really between 2012 and 15 is like, even when I was in the worst of the worst, there was a nurturing there. Yeah. That, that,
• 24:05
  Could allow me, and I think that they hope that one day I would get to this point. Man, you're just speaking to my heart because, you know, when do you, you know, I was an idiot. I did a lot of stupid things. And I'm sure that Stevie Iserman and all the guys are looking, Darren, come on, man. You can't do that. And, oh, and they still love you. And in some way, it's enabling you. But if they would have, like, tried to be forceful, you'd have been like, get the fuck out of here.
• 24:30
  Well, we've gone through the different points of that, too, different ways. And it's like having a brother's relationship that truly care about you. So it's also, too, they're the ones that can say the thing that would hit me the hardest that might get me to realize, right? Like Stevie No Pono Punches, bro.
• 24:52
  He, he wields a samurai sword. So dude, half the time he's cut you and you're like laughing. And then all of a sudden your body slides apart and you're like, oh, that was me. Like, but the reality is, is like when you want to hear the message,
• 25:10
  It speaks loudly. So all the things that they, it's all truth. Like, why do we get mad? You only get mad when it's true. I don't get mad. It's dumb shit. Somebody says something that's not true, that's dumb. They don't know. It's when they strike a nerve. And who could strike the nerve the most? The guys that you spend the most time with that know you the most. Couldn't be any more clear about sobriety or...
• 25:32
  getting in alignment. And I tell you before he lives block or so away. Stevie does. I used to see him at the gym all the time. Problem is as soon as he took this job with the wings, never see him anymore. He, that guy works tirelessly. What do you think the biggest, just to digress for a second, what do you think the biggest issue is how come they haven't been able to get over the hump yet? No, I mean, it's just takes time. I mean, he's told you, all you have to do is listen. If you want to listen to Steve Eisemann when he talks,
• 26:01
  Right. It was always going to, the object is to get to the next level and not rescind. Right. So I know we're dying to get back in the playoffs, but the fuck it's playoffs, bro. That's not a championship. So, so he's not going to relinquish something. In the meantime, now you look at,
• 26:22
  What happened now? Like, he made the coaching decision to something else, which has really helped and affected. As we sit here now, going into the night against Seattle, the Red Wings are the first wildcard team, and they've ripped off six in a row and played well. But he also said, right, before he made the change, I thought that the talent in the lineup and the progress that we would make if everybody played to their potential would be a wildcard team.
• 26:52
  Beginning of the year, nobody's playing to the, few guys playing to the potential. They're not playing like a team. Now...
• 26:59
  Like, it's hashtag wiser plan. Listen to what he says. It's his path. It's just going to take a while because you want to do it right. I think to go back to your years, and we're talking hockey like I'm a hockey elitist, I'm not, is I think they need the goalie. I'm not trying to disrespect. I think he's waiting for Kosa or that was his plan. One of those younger guys. So the guys in there now, Talbot and Lion, which hurts you. No, no, but they're going to.
• 27:26
  They're going to hold, and they can do the job right now to be a playoff. Yes, if they stay healthy. But this team, and I've always said that if you listen to me, this team's ready to roll when you have Sebastian Kosa or Trey Augustine, who's a sophomore in East Lansing for the Spartys. Those two are your goaltenders of the future.
• 27:47
  Because if you think about it, that's what finally got you guys over the hump. We got Vernon. Vernon. And then... Vernon helped Ozzie. Learned how to Vernon win it. And then Hasek. And it was... You could say you got the best defense in the league, but you can't let in soft goals. And it just seems like...
• 28:03
  that's our issue right now. But I don't know. I I'm, I'm a diehard and I'm a diehard Detroit. I grew up here and I love it. So, but here's the, here's the blessing as a Detroit sports fan, especially right now, you got a Red Wings team. You got a Pistons team that are playoff heading towards the playoffs. If they can continue to play well. You know, I got one of these questions here. We, we, you talked about, talked about at the beginning, which was that Stanley cup final goal in 1997. I remember that Deke around. And I'm like,
• 28:32
  Man, when he puts it all together, we'd be unstoppable. Tell me about, walk us through that play. Yeah, so I beat one guy one-on-one my whole career. Life's about timing. I just happened to do it in the Stanley Cup Finals game four for the Stanley Cup clinching goal.
• 28:49
  Um, but again, what do you put in to get out? And a lot of people don't realize that that's sort of, uh, been the main mainstay of sort of my life or my commitment is I'm always willing to go above and beyond or whatever. So after we lost in 95, 96, I went over to Sweden for a month.
• 29:11
  And I worked in a hockey school with 8, 9, 10, 11-year-olds. Before anybody tells me, way to go, DMACC, as a professional hockey player, giving back to the kids. No, I was in the hockey school with the 8, 9, 10, and 11-year-olds learning stick handling, puck handling, all this offensive stuff.
• 29:27
  Why does that matter? Because if we, every day that we started any drill, it'd be pull it out, push it in, pull it out, push it in, on your skates, doing all this, muscle memory. Why does it matter? Oh, because in the second period, you know, I get a pass through the middle. I'm going to go dump it in because there's a line change. I'm responsible right winger. I know that's my role. I go to dump it in, sort of mess it up.
• 29:53
  end up doing that move, pulling it around Yanni Ninema, and out of the corner of my eye, see this orange fleck, pull it to about this far from the net and say, and do you know why I scored? Because I said, please don't miss the net. And I double pirouetted in the corner, and this is for everybody. You'll appreciate this, right? One of the moments that will be burned in my head forever.
• 30:14
  Who's the first guy I really lock into? It's Steve Eisenman, the captain. The guy I've been watching since 1983, since I was 11 years old. Looking at me with his eyes the size of dinner saucers going, what the F was that? Me, never lost for words. And him going, well, thank God you don't have to do it again. And that's why it's always Stevie knows best. And he was right. Thank God I didn't have to do it again. I always thank Eric Lindros for scoring with like 15 seconds left.
• 30:42
  To make it 2-1 for us, not only make my goal, the Stanley Cup clinching goal, but give me my favorite memory of Joe Louis Arena because there's a face-off outside our zone with 11 seconds left. Steve Eisner, Brendan Shanahan, Nick Lindstrom, Vladimir Konstantinov, and Darryl McCarty, the kid from Leamington, Ontario, is on the ice for that final buzzer. When the buzzer went and the guys came off the bench and the streamers and the crowd from blue line to blue line, it was so loud, it was silent.
• 31:12
  Up until that point, we hadn't won the cup in like 40-some years. 42 years. 42 years. Wow. I remember exactly where I was. I just graduated from college, and I was up in Traverse City, and we were going nuts. I forget the name of the bar. We were all at a bar watching it.
• 31:26
  Wow. But if you guys, if you're watching this on YouTube, head over to and Google it. It's actually, he pulls, he's played it off like he didn't make a hockey move. He made a hockey move. Well, I did. No, I mean, I dangled his ass, but I was, I was meant to dump it in. You can see I sort of flop it. You got to have some sort of talent to pull it off. But again, right place, right time. Oh man, you're being modest. I love it. So let's talk more about,
• 31:52
  I love the stories of overcoming adversity. So that's just what this Heart in Life brand is all about. And I've taken it a step further. And I got a new book coming out called Happier Than Life. And I think you reach a point where you're still going through the motions. And all we want in life is to be happy. What makes you happy now?
• 32:14
  What makes me happy is, is, is watching people, you know, who have struggled, you know, overcome that and do the work. It's a, you know, I always say, when I learned that the destination is an oasis because you're a human being, it's about the journey. So it's what journey am I on? And for me, I mean, if you know, I do, you nailed it. I do so many different things. Why is that? Because I'm built to push the hardest,
• 32:42
  out of anybody on something that I'm focused and passionate on. I will accomplish anything I put my mind to the key. The key to that superpower is, um,
• 32:51
  putting it to put your mind to the right things. Right. So, um, golf makes me happy. Um, being outdoors, you know, makes me happy being in the plants makes me happy talking to people that are passionate about and learning stuff, you know, pass. I mean, that makes me happy. I always have a saying is that I know what they tell me the world is like, but this is my world and this is what it's like. So it's like who you surround yourself with. And I just want,
• 33:22
  You know, the idea is to try to be better than I was yesterday. Mirror the process, divorce the outcome. You know, I say, you know, they call it being present because every day is a gift, man. Yeah. And, you know, there were nights that I remember, I don't care if I live or die right now.
• 33:39
  yeah no i'm sure we've all been there and i'd be like you know what whatever so you don't need to hit rock bottom there is no rock bottom guys it's a it's it's a black hole it is that black hole you can keep dig trust me i thought i thought there was some bottoms bro and i'm convinced that it is an eternal pit of blackness that you can keep digging and digging there is no bottom you're happily married and you've been married for years
• 34:03
  Walk me through how you became the person to meet her. How did you meet her? So this is a great story. And I wrote a book, My Last Fight, True Story of a Hockey Rockstar, back in 2012. And I believe that...
• 34:18
  So you can't get sober for somebody or something or whatever, but there is, like in my case, a person that made me realize that I deserve to love myself. And that's who Cheryl McCarty is. She has so many things to rather my best friend and soulmate, but she gave me the love of myself that I should fight. And it was a struggle. She was there.
• 34:47
  um she and why does it work because when i met her in 2010 she was one of five people in the state of michigan who didn't know who i was and then i hooked her up uh st patty's day parade up in clare michigan
• 35:01
  God bless the Doherty Hotel. And you were drinking during that time. Love at first. I was hammering. Oh, yeah. I was drinking. Oh, man. No, no. Love at first sight. So those of you that don't know, St. Patrick's Day in Michigan is like opening day Michigan. It's like, it's. Oh, yeah. I was full-blower DMACC back in the day, but I knew that this, when I had met her at the time. Yeah, things were in the worst possible situation.
• 35:25
  Like, I was chaotic. So got her. By the time I wrapped her into the vortex where she couldn't escape. But she got my whole life cleaned up. I was a fucking disaster. Like, disaster. And look at you now. So I had to make the initiative. And she's been there to the stuff. But it's also, like I said, she's my ride or die. And without her, I wouldn't be able to have...
• 35:54
  gotten the momentum to the point, to the fact of this is where life is beautiful. Because she sort of put her life on hold as a nurse and stuff like that until I was able...
• 36:09
  And it was probably 2000 after COVID. So until I'd been sober for almost five years and stuff. And then she went back to school to get her nurse master. She just had gotten it early this year. So she's a doctor now, which enabled, like I'd asked you in Florida. We're in Clearwater Beach. So she's got a huge gig down there. So that's.
• 36:31
  but I spend more time here, but having a place back and forth, but I was able to give back, right. To help her work on her after she helped me work on myself. And now we're in this space together where it's sort of entering into this with, with the cannabis brand, her new job and stuff like this, but having the options and, and fighting for each other because my sobriety and her nurse doctor and stuff, all the work that's gone into it. It's just, it's, it's to me, it's,
• 37:01
  something I'm grateful for and a blessing, but it's also to be able to be of service back. What is the thing that you're most proud of in your life today? I think that
• 37:17
  Like when it comes and maybe you can relate to this. Well, I'm sure I can. Everything you've been saying. Yeah, no, but I realized this about, and I think it was about the seven year anniversary. So 11, 11, 15 is my sobriety date. So I think it was like 2022 or whatever. And I, and it hit me that the state ain't for me anymore. It's for everybody else.
• 37:38
  and I think the thing I take pride in is like you said I always say I'm Detroit's favorite stepson being from across the border and stuff like this but I resemble the resilience of what the city is and if anybody represents Detroit more than me let me know right as far as like no matter how many times you get knocked down you gotta get back up no matter how many times you punch in the face being part of the grind line being part of that
• 38:07
  putting myself into a position that it's not about me anymore. What I represent. And, and so that gives me the power to like every day is to be better and to help more people. And whether it's the veterans, whether it's in the recovery, whether it's a cannabis field, whether no matter what it is, it's just to be that positive influence to tell everybody is that, no, I don't care. Cause I, cause I did do it. And I know, and I can relate to know so many different things, but,
• 38:35
  What are we talking about in the kitchen earlier? You know, we got a lot of the same T-shirts, bro. The only difference between Darren McCarty these days is I know that certain things, if I do them, the consequence is death. Drinking is one of them. Right? Then there's a few other ones.
• 38:55
  And I'm convinced because no matter what, I always had, like, even back in the day when, like I said, between 96 and 06, when I was sober, I was dry. I wasn't sober because I always had a date, whether it was retirement, whether, but I was going to drink again. And it was always there. There's no never, ever drinking again.
• 39:18
  I love that it's 11-11 because it's good luck. Everybody's 11-11. So here's what I read about you. And we talk about the city of Detroit, and it's blue collar, and it's resilient as hell. And that's you. You just keep fighting back, and there's nothing going to keep you down. And that's why this city loves you.
• 39:36
  that's why I love Detroit versus Detroit versus everybody who represents that more than who can wear that shirt. Right. Like at the, and I take the most, what I take the most pride in, right. Because here's the thing is that when the shit had to be done, right. No matter what, who got it done. And I'm not saying, but, but I want that. I wanted that just like, I want to be in front of this kid cannabis thing or whatever to save my life. Is that that Lemieux shit? That was mine.
• 40:04
  Right? You know, and lucky we took care of it the way that it did so that I'm not in Jackson State and you're sending me commissary because I did something stupid.
• 40:13
  Because that was, don't trust me, the guys that you built like me, that's on the table. So thank goodness that it played out the way that it did. You get all fired up, and I just want to stand up and go out and freaking wreck some people. I love it. You don't have to do that anymore. I know. You know, that's the funniest thing. As you age, it's funny how you look back and you realize that so many things that you thought mattered don't.
• 40:37
  No, and you know what the biggest one is, Kelly? And I think that you can relate to it as just, you know, harder than life as it grows and you get these stories or whatever. I lie. It's like, my biggest thing is, I'm sorry. I wasn't talking to you. You're ignorant, right? Like people, like, I don't care. I don't have time for the ones that want to argue or, or you're a drug addict. Okay, dude, congratulations.
• 41:04
  You know, like different people that do that stuff. You're not to my level, right? You don't have the mental capacity to, right? I'm more interested in the person that has their hand up and say, what do you mean by that? What do you mean by that? I'm interested in doers. I always tell people it's none of my business what anybody thinks about me or says about me. And you ever meet anybody doing better than somebody else stepping on somebody below them. It's always them punching up and pushing up
• 41:33
  And you know, that's the beauty part about recovery and being present and working on yourself. And you said, learn it all.
• 41:41
  is you learn that none of that matters, and I can laugh about it. Yeah. Like, I can laugh. Like, when I was going through that healing process, I would think about, like, that night on the boat that I'm telling you about, I'm like, oh, man, I would be embarrassed. Now I can laugh. I'm so healed. Yeah, no. I love it. I love when people, like, because I don't fucking remember a lot of shit. Dude, I've fucked up, but when you tell me these stories, the first thing I ask is, uh,
• 42:11
  Can you give me a time frame? And I was like, because when you bring it back up and be like, Oh yeah. Like we were talking about, Oh yeah. Like we're talking about Kelly's boat and being over there. Jefferson beach. Well, yeah. Kid rock played there. Oh, to our cup party, stuff like, like these are memories. Like I'm not embarrassed about like, I'm some of the shit that I did. Yeah. I wouldn't do it again. You know, like it's, you can't help us smile about those days. You just got to laugh because you live, you fucking survive half the time. It's like, fuck, we lived through that. Like how many fuckers should be dead? Yeah.
• 42:41
  Fucking 20 times over. Let's talk about the Darren McCarty brand cannabis because we talked a little bit about how you got sober with the oil. But talk about yours and what's special about it. And where can people get it? Yeah, absolutely. All throughout the state, Darren McCarty brand powered by Legacy Cannabis. So my cannabis journey, it's been rough. I used to be with a company called Pincana who just shut their doors down.
• 43:07
  I started with them in 2018. Loved it because I created a CBD topical. It was the first thing I ever created. Because if you want to start a conversation about the plant, right, what better way to do it? Hey, you got a sore? Oh, yeah, my elbow. Rub this saw on it and go, how's your elbow? And they say, what do you mean? What was wrong with my elbow? It's like, see what I mean? It's like one of the endo can let your system work. Anyways, so I was with Pincana for three years, and then my contract came up, and they couldn't fulfill it.
• 43:37
  like their end of the bargain, like medicinally the product was great, but their marketing was garbage, which happens. So me, I had the choice that I didn't renew the contract. So I stepped away from the business for two and a half years. I had to find the right, because synergies have to be lined up, right? There's, in my world, I put people in two different categories. There's the dollar compassion or compassion dollar. I'm in the compassion first,
• 44:07
  money follow category.
• 44:09
  So you have to have the synergies aligned with that. I don't begrudge you if you're a dollar, you know, but go away with all the rest of your friends. Cause you're not in it for the reason that I'm in it. And, and so in finding that, uh, God bless, uh, Steve Cato legacy cannabis who came along. And, um, so it's a unique situation because legacy cannabis, which is, um, there's a reptilian, uh, Odin, um,
• 44:38
  sterling heights michigan right that if you look on legacy legacy reptilium it's it's got over 4 million views um the owner passed away of pancreatic cancer so they created the company that gives 10 back so 10 of anything sold in our brand goes back to the reptilium reptarium so anyways the synergies had to match up
• 45:01
  The product has to be there. That's first and foremost how they do it. Some of my favorite product in the state. And to be able to stand there and have some influence in what comes back for anybody who is a connoisseur or whatever. I'm big into the old school strains. Pre-98 Bubba Kush is my favorite. Wait, wait. Is that Sativa and then there's Indica? So that's more of an Indica.
• 45:30
  So it's a team of upper and in the middle. So you're the daughter guy, but more of the, yes, because I run high, I naturally run high. So I need something just to level me out and bring me down a little bit.
• 45:43
  And that's the beauty about the plant. You don't ever have to smoke the plant to get the benefits of it, but it's like a lot of it is don't tell me what, tell me who, right? Like who grew your stuff? So my thing is it's trial and error of being your own doctor or having a say in what you put in your body. Along the lines, it's like being a vegan. It's like all the stuff we talk about food and all these days, it's having a choice of what you put in your body and having stuff that can help it.
• 46:13
  And then you get explained why it's helping it because you have a system, right? Endocannabinoid system, which this plant with its 400 plus cannabinoids, which we only talk about probably 12 or 14 of them, has in this to get in the system. So you got to match it up. And when you find something, we call it the secret. Once you find your secret. Now for me, my secret was sleep, insomniac. So there's a part of the plant called CBN.
• 46:40
  right? That can knock you out. Right. So, so, and that's more so in a edible or whatever else, but you find this, your concoctions and it's just sort of, so being an alcoholic, I like cocktailing. So now I got my own, like whatever cocktail to what flower I need, depending on what mood I always tell everybody.
• 47:02
  It's my fault if I'm not in the proper mood for what situation that I'm in. Then I didn't prepare myself because I can prepare my mood for whatever I have to deal with. Whatever you took before here, I love it because you're in a freaking jovial mood. I'm feeling your love. When did you first start cannabis?
• 47:21
  So not until, like, I grew up, like I told you, I didn't. So here's my story. And this might be like a lot of other people, too. Never smoked. Like, I probably had tried it growing up, but it was so taboo. Taboo, like, you could be a stoner or a jolly. Like, no one, like, dude, you'd rather be caught chugging a...
• 47:41
  40 of booze in front of the church instead of ever being known to... You could smoke cigarettes, too. That's the thing. And isn't it funny how mainstream it is now? Like, you're dumb if you don't take cannabis nowadays.
• 47:58
  It was like, oh my God, you smoke weed But it's even like the CBD In the top of the attention So for me, coming from that Where it was always booze to suffer So I ran into sore hernias Problems, right? Like back in 99 So I tore my Groin off the bone And they gave me all these pills, right? And I was never a pill guy
• 48:23
  until then so I started taking but I couldn't sleep and constipate and stuff like this so my buddies finally got me I was losing my mind and I was sober at the time so I couldn't drink right so they're like smoke this bro and I hit it and I was like
• 48:41
  you ever hear Ricky Williams, a football player, talk about how it's bigger than like, it was game changer. And then it was like, what the holy shit. It just, I didn't need the pills. You know, it was just, it was something that I knew in the back of my mind that there's something to this. Now I, so I didn't regularly smoke because it's, you know, it was taboo and stuff like this, but it was always in the back of my mind. And then, you know, back, like I said, I've, I've been around it and I've, you know, probably smoked since,
• 49:13
  2008, 9, 10, 11, but not... That would be more recreationally, not using it medicinally until I really had to. Once I turned to the plant to save my life, it fucking showed up and saved my life. By the way, my stance is that... I don't know if I've ever said this in the podcast. My stance is sit in your shit and deal with your feelings, but if you're going to choose something, choose cannabis. Because you at least know what you're getting versus if they're giving you a pill...
• 49:41
  from big pharma where they're making money or Darren doesn't care. He just wants you to be happy. Here's the difference, right? What has always been. And I'll use you for an example. Let's pretend that's a white lab coat. I walk in, you go here. I go over here, here. Here's the thing. That's supposed to be it. No, now, now you actually have a choice to go in somewhere, uh,
• 50:02
  And there's so many different options where you're comfortable to find out to try things, whether it's edibles, whether it's this, that slow and steady, slow and steady wins the race, but it could find you whatever gives you the edge. Because the whole thing is you're just trying to take the edge off.
• 50:20
  I have two more questions after this one, then we're going to get you out of here. But have you taken any kind of plant medicine besides cannabis? Like, have you done any ayahuasca or any... Have not. I'm interested in microdose mushrooms. Okay. Can they get that from the same... Where can you get microdose mushrooms from anymore? So, mushrooms, Ann Arbor, Hazel Park. There's...
• 50:41
  A lot of places in Michigan are decriminalized, stuff like this. More so, like, in the caregiver program in Michigan. But that's the whole – so I'm not the mushroom guy. Those are the other ones. But for me, like, I'm on a program where four times a week –
• 51:00
  And then I take a few days off, but I'll microdose a half a gram. And it just sort of just to see where it is. I'm not, like for me, I'm more to, I have somebody that educates me on that and with the program, but that's what it is. Like have these conversations. Don't be afraid to have these conversations. Look into it. Because if you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, then why do you care?
• 51:26
  how it's going to be there if you're not hurting somebody and you can get the education, like you said, behind it and why you're going to get there. That's all it is. I just want you to be good with you. Yeah, be happy. What's next for Darren McCarty? More music, comedy, or something completely different? All of the above. We got a big project. So like I'd said before, back in 2012, I wrote a book, My Last Fight, True Story of a Hockey Rock Star. And a lot of things had changed. Even in the back of the book when I did the...
• 51:55
  2015 I did like the Update I was still drinking Need to go back and see I was down to just Beer and whatever like this but trying to Ween up right to go back to see where It was so I haven't so we Released this year messbucketcomics.com Um We released um
• 52:16
  the graphic novel, uh, equivalent life's a grind. Um, and so there are 180 fades graphic novel done by Marvel, some Marvel guys, friends that I had and stuff like this. So I got a graph graphic novel there. Um, what we're working on in the next few bit is, um, the, uh, DMACC documentary. So that, yeah, in the next year or so,
• 52:40
  Other than that, I'll be around, like you said, the band. We're going to play throughout this week. The band's name is Grindr, by the way. You play all around Michigan. We do, all throughout. I do Darren McCarty Slapstick Comedy Tour. You go to DarrenMcCarty.com, any of the blue check marks on Twitter, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, stuff like that. That's me. I'll do a better...
• 53:06
  Try to do a better job. That's what I got to get more on board with is the social media stuff. But I do Woodward Sports Network Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, which is based here in Birmingham. And bottom line, people ask me, do you do anything for the Wings? Because you see all the guys. Yes. I have everything to do with nothing on the ice. I have everything to do with the season tickets, the stands, the charity, the people, the fans. I'm the conduit. Remember, I'm the mayor of Hockey Town. Come down to LCA. Come and say hi. Yeah. Yeah. Let's go Wings.
• 53:35
  Who came up with the grind line name? That's where the grinder... So I just assume everybody knows where the grind line is. Which is probably the greatest flex up when we agree what we have. Because you have your own line name that is known in the hockey world. Just like the production line. Like the...
• 53:52
  you know, the Russian five. So there's actually four of us. So it's funny because Keith gave, who wrote the Russian five book, just came out with the grind line book, which is on all four of us. Joey Kosher, Chris Draper, Kirk Moppy, Darren McCarty, but who came up with the name? It was our former trainer, John Morton. And I think it was in the 97 playoffs or whatever like that. And, and it would, it would work. And it's funny because he's,
• 54:21
  There's three guys on the line, but I named four guys because Joey and I would switch out because Maltby and Draper were that much of a handle to protect that they needed both of us. But I would either go play. I would start the game with the grind line, go play with Stevie during the game, come back at the end of the game. Joey would fit in, but it was all. We always said it took two of us to protect those two. You guys would always, when you got together, you got on ice, it was literally grinded to a halt and the other team couldn't do anything.
• 54:50
  I got to know Maltby pretty close. I was actually with him when he met his wife. Nice, Wendy. So he was a little agitator. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Dude, imagine sticking up for... I had to protect that guy my whole life. Yeah, so that's... Here's one for you. Life's a grind, man. Life's a grind. That's...
• 55:11
  Enjoy my truth. Let's have some fun with it. I want to end, and I want you to think about this. We're going to end. We're going to, this is the last question I want to ask you is, everything that is Darren McCarty, what is the one thing you want everybody to know?
• 55:26
  I think this comes down to my legacy question. And I always tell everybody around me, I'll be the first one to win Stanley cups and cannabis cups for what I do in the recovery, in the cannabis space to help people like myself who didn't think that they ever have an opportunity or a chance. When you remember me, it'll be for what I do in that cannabis space, in the veteran space and the give back. And oh yeah, he won four cups and beat up a guy.
• 55:55
  Beat up a lot of guys. Wait, hold up. One more question. That's what I'm working on is that my legacy is the humanitarian other than the athlete. I forgot that Kosher was on your line. Did you ever fight him? Oh, dude. Answer to the toughest guy I ever fought. My rookie year, Joe Kosher was in with the Rangers. Yeah. I was into touchdowns.
• 56:17
  joe lewis arena in the corner it's the only time i'm a lefty it's the only time i squared off right-handed because everybody knows the right hand of joe kosher joe kosher k-o-c-u-r go google him his right hand the only thing more lethal was thor's hammer so you don't want to get hit by it because he lights out
• 56:37
  right so we square off we lock up he throws a couple punches i duck takes a piece of my helmet off we end up in a headlock we both hit our heads on the ice he looks at me goes you all right kid i looked at him and said thanks for not killing me mr kosher which if you don't kill me i'll come back haunt you and we'll win cups together one of my best friends to this day so
• 56:58
  I even go way back to the original tough guy, Prober. Proby and Joey, dude. Did you cross paths with him at all? No, so I've known Proby since I was 14 years old because of being from the same area and stuff, but I played with him my first year, right? And yeah, we tussled a little bit when he was with Chicago and took a shot at Stevie. Just so you know, this is what happened, or that's what happens if you don't find cannabis.
• 57:25
  Or if you do, just know it's the option. I mean, Proby's no longer with us, and he was a bad dude. I mean, like, physically imposing. So, guys, there are... Well, here's the whole thing when you get to recovery, and this is, like, so...
• 57:40
  And let me say this about that. So bring it home with the... Let me bring it home. But start with that. Sometimes people don't have the mental or physical paths. When I talk about Bob Probert, what Bob Probert did for me is that when he crossed the proverbial line, he didn't see it, but he unveiled it to me. So I was able to hang on to the edge for whatever else.
• 58:01
  to be able to, unfortunately, and we've lost so many different people because of addiction and because of different things that I fight every day in their honor, right? And there's other different people and stuff like this, but for that truth, right? Because it's about being that truth. And you have to remember this. And I told you this downstairs. When I realized that no matter how much I love somebody, how much I want somebody to get...
• 58:31
  whatever, if they're not going to do the work and I'm focused on that, I'm missing the hand that's waving behind me because I don't care how much I have love for you or not. If you're not willing to do the work, then I can't help you. Do the work, people. Work works. Everything works as long as you work it. Let me say on behalf of Detroit, everybody in Detroit and myself, I am proud of you and I'm grateful that you did the work and thanks for being you, man. Thanks, Kyle. Appreciate it.
• 59:00
  Please rate and share this podcast. I'm active on all social platforms and love to hear from my Segal supporters. Each and every episode is sponsored by my company, National Technology Management, the easiest and best IT company to do business with, delivering peace of mind with technology every day, even simplifying cybersecurity. Visit TrustNTM.com for more info. Until next week, be harder than life.