Latest / Unicorn Football Talk / Reaction: QB tiers and more training camp
Transcript
- Emily: Hey Hillary. Hilary: Hey Emily, we're back. Emily: We're back. It's preseason still. And it's time for us to talk about what's going on in NFL right now. Do a reaction segment. Training camps going on and there's some other things happening right now. Hilary: There's a lot happening. I'm actually having a bit of a challenge keeping up every day. I read and then some situations resolve themselves, some new stuff comes up. So it's an exciting time. I'm I'm getting ready for the preseason and then regular season. Excitement levels up for me. How about you? Emily: yeah, excitement levels up, but you're right. News changes every day, which makes these reaction segments really challenging. so I think we're up on all the latest things we want to talk about. I was I was thinking we could just do a quick hit on contract stuff. what caught my eye, B. John Robinson, running back, great running back out of Atlanta. signed a deal. He was doing a hold in, meaning he was showing up to training camp, but he wasn't practicing. And he is now the highest paid running back in the NFL, worth twenty two point two five million per year, fifty one million in guaranteed money. Good for him. I don't think either of us get to watch every team play every week, but he really jumps out at me as a great, great running back that is worth the salary. I don't know if you have a have an opinion. Hilary: Yeah, I'm excited for him to reset the bar. I think he's a game changing athlete and Atlanta did the right thing to pay him. And good for him. I I I think it's great. Good for him. Emily: Good for him. Yeah, good, good for Atlanta, too. I'm sure they're excited to keep him around. The second contract that popped up on my radar was Zay Flowers at the Ravens receiver. He is now the fourth highest paid receiver in the NFL behind JSN, Jamar Chase, and Drake London. I think he's a great receiver, but I guess being the fourth highest receiver kind of surprised me. Hilary: Yeah, I I don't know very much about him. I know that he is one of Lamar Jackson's premier targets, but is he in that top tier receiver group? I I'm not sure. I don't know if I don't know enough enough about him, I guess. Emily: Okay, and then I think the the remaining contract talk was gonna be about what is not happening in Tampa Bay. Tell me about that. Hilary: Yeah, so absolutely nothing is changed since last week in Tampa Bay when we touched on that. Baker Mayfield is looks like he's gonna play out this season on his existing contract without an extension. And he's been a little chippy in the media about I'm just gonna prove it and I've been disrespected and that kind of thing. And I hope he does. I hope he stays healthy. I hope he has a great season and is rewarded at the end of the season. I do admire him a little bit. For saying that if he didn't get a deal done before the start of training camp, that negotiations were just gonna stop and he was gonna focus on football and and and not that drag that into training camp and stuff and regroup at the end of the season. I kudos to him for that. Again, hope he stays healthy, hope he gets the money he deserves at the end of the season with some great production. The other thing that's happening, or I should say not happening down in Tampa Bay is Vita Vea asked for a trade last week. And as far as I know, other than a few brief rumors, maybe for the Raiders, it's been crickets. So I don't know if that means there's a trade deal in the works and we're just waiting for the trip chips to fall or i if there's nothing going on. I I I'm not quite sure what to make of that. Emily: Yeah, I'm really interested to see if he gets traded or not. I would love to see him as a Seahawk, but I don't think that would happen. Hilary: right? Yeah. And he's in an interesting place, age wise. I think he's 31 and asking top dollar, of course. And some franchises are hesitant to sign another long term deal to a player of that age. So we'll see. Emily: All right, let's talk injuries. what popped up for me, I mean, there's a lot of injuries happening, obviously, Hilary: There's a lot. Emily: but what popped to the top for me was Kobe Bryant, former Seahawk that we miss greatly, safety now with the Bears. He's gonna be out Hilary: Yeah. Emily: eight to ten weeks, and that's just a shame and it's really hard to hear him start out with the Bears like that. Hilary: Yeah. I didn't realize it was that long of a time window for him. That's quite an quite a while. Emily: Yeah, quite a while. the other one I was gonna point out is Nick Eamon Wari. He was so such a key, key piece to the Seahawks defense. kind of a surprise to us that he got surgery recently. they're Hilary: Recently. Emily: hoping that they'll he'll be back for week one, but I would really hate to start the season without him. Hilary: I would too. And I think it's interesting that he didn't have the cleanup it my understanding it's ankle cleanup surgery and that he didn't just have it right at the end of the season, that he waited all through Emily: Yeah. Hilary: the off season and summer and stuff and tried to come back. I think he tried to come back to OTAs and stuff and then realized that it wasn't gonna be good to go. I'm glad he's getting the surgery and and getting the treatment that he needs, but i it is a it is concerning if we start the season without him for sure. Emily: And then the last one I was going to highlight, I don't know if you have others, was the 49ers as a team. What's going on? Hilary: yeah. Ricky Pierce, I don't know. Ricky Pierce all season ending surgery. Emily: And Dame. Hilary: Mike Evans on the sidelines in street clothes. I do they have any healthy receivers right now? I I don't know. I I I I I'm saying that sort of jokingly, but sort of not. Emily: I know. And I'm smiling and I shouldn't smile. Like injuries are never a happy thing or anything. It's just crazy to me how unlucky they've been. And I don't know, is it the substation, Hillary? Hilary: I don't know. Don't know. on that note, I am pleased to see that Coach Shanahan seems to be making slow and steady progress from his injuries and concussion. And I'm that's good to see. Emily: It's good to see, but since we last talked, I feel like that story is unfolded in more odd ways. It just, you know, he called a bunch of reporters to his office to make it clear that he caused the accident, which was new since the last time you and I talked. And I don't know, it's just kind of a weird situation overall, how it was kept secret, and then the wrong information Hilary: Yeah. Emily: leaked about who caused it. And but yeah, I hope I hope he gets back soon. I guess I hope I mean I hope he's okay, but I don't know if I hope he Hilary: Yes. Emily: gets back soon as a Seahawks fan. Hilary: And right, right. I think that kind of wraps it up for me on the injury and contract categories. What else have you got going on? Emily: Well, I just thought we could do any team check ins that you want. I think you said you told me before that a couple of teams caught your eye. So let's just let's go there. Hilary: Okay, let's go there. Let's go to Cincinnati, Joe Burrow and the Bengals. Hoodé. I I love those guys. I am a Joe Burrow fan. I'm gonna say that straight up front. I think him to Jamar Chase is just the most beautiful play in football when it's that outside shoulder pass. So anyway, Cincinnati caught my eye because they went out this offseason and they bought themselves a defense. that was definitely a weak point for them last season. And they added Dexter Lawrence among others. and I think that their defensive line and defensive group in general looks a lot stronger. I'm hopeful about that. They've got two, I think second year. starters as their safeties. So maybe that's still a little bit of a weak zone, but defense should be much improved over last year. the flip side to that is there's been some stuff going on. It started in OTAs and it's that Joe Burrow is taking more snaps under center, which is something that he does not usually do. And there've been a lot of different combinations of under center with play action, under center with motion and some variations on that. And if Joe adds that as another weapon to the offensive scheme, that's really opening up some new play calling and and a new part of the playbook for the Bengals, which I think would be super exciting. it's kind of early to tell if they're going to implement it for the regular season, but I hope so. Joe's run most of the offense for his career just with a standard eleven person package. and this would allow Coach Taylor to add a bunch of new offensive schemes. That caught my eye. Fun to see somebody trying something new. Emily: I hadn't heard that. That's interesting. Hilary: Yeah, yeah. other thing caught my eye going back to Denver. We talked about them last week. They look good. Bo Nicks is rolling. He is healthy. Things are clicking with the offense. And Sean Payton made a really interesting comment to reporters the other day. Backing up a little bit, Taysom Hill will not be returning to the New Orleans Saints. He's a free agent and he has announced on social media and through the regular media that his days in New Orleans are done and he's thanked the city and he's evaluating what he's gonna do next. That guy is kind of like a jack of all trades, such a super interesting player, and he has a really long history with coach Peyton, obviously from their time together in New Orleans. And Sean Payton came out and said that he would be visiting with Taysom Hill while they were back to induct Drew Breeze into the Hall of Fame. So now there's some rumors, you know, would Taysom show up in Denver? Boy, would that be exciting and and a a a a different take on their offense. So we'll see with that. But I just kind of thought that was a fun rumor to a team that already looks pretty solid heading into the main season. Emily: Yeah, I think it'd be interesting if he ends up there. I think he's got more left in the tank and I would like to see them reunited to see what they can do. Hilary: Yeah. Yeah. maybe headed towards the end of his career, but I don't think he's done unless he wants to be. Yeah. Emily: Well, let's talk about the Hall of Fame. It's the Hall of Fame game is coming up this week. do you watch it? And like on a scale of one to ten, like how excited are you for the first preseason game of the year? Hilary: I have to be really honest, I've never watched it. Emily: I'm I'm so is that a zero then or? Hilary: That well, it just kinda i it is just not on my radar. It should be, but I've never watched it. So yeah. One, zero, two, whatever y whatever you wanna call that. Emily: Okay, it's a zero for me. I I don't know if I've talked about this yet. I hate the preseason, I hate the games, I'm not interested. Get me to the get me to the the real season, but I understand it's like a necessary part of getting us to the regular season. I am only excited in the sense that that means football's closer. so bring it on. And I often like to put football on in the back. Background and just kind of have it on and for the sounds. So I'll probably turn it on if I'm home. but what was interesting too, like the Hall of Fame is coming up, the induction, and I never watch the Hall of Fame induction, but I might this year for one player. Let's talk about who's being inducted: Drew Brees, who you just talked about, Roger Craig, Hilary: Yeah. Emily: Larry Fitzgerald, Luke Keekly, and Adam Vinateri. and I I am so happy and excited to see Larry Fitzgerald go in, first ballot Hall of Famer. He's one of my favorite players of all time. I mean, we I mean, it's easy to say that. You can probably throw that around for a lot, but if I had to actually put pencil to paper, I feel like he would be on my top 10 list. And, you know, we saw him twice a year, like and firsthand in the stadium. Hilary: Yes. Emily: and not only was he just one of the best receivers of all time. He's by all accounts one of the best people in football of all time. And it's just so nice to see those things put together. I'm so happy for him. And I would love to see his speech this weekend. Hilary: I agree. Hall of Fame is interesting for me. I hadn't paid attention to it for a long time. And then in the last few years, I started tuning in a bit more just because the people being inducted are starting to come into the realm of when I started to really be a football fan. And there are a lot more names that I recognize. And I knew all five of the inductees that you just named off. And That might be a first for me in terms of how many I know on in a given year. But the interest for me is growing as I have memories of watching those players play, or I know more about their backgrounds and histories. I love Drew Brees. He's a Purdue alum. Drew arrived in New Orleans right after the wake of Hurricane Katrina and he just kind of lifted that city up and the team just all came together. And I think people followed him. I I mean his players and had a lot of respect for him. I think he gave a lot like Larry, he gave a lot back to the community he lived in New Orleans. He still does, I believe, with his family. And I again a great player, a great person. Happy to see him make the list this year. Emily: All right, let's pivot to talking about quarterback tiers. This is something I look forward to every year. Mike Sando of The Athletic does this detailed ranking of quarterbacks. he gets together a panel, and they're we don't know who these people are because they need to feel safe giving their opinion. 50 experts, so eight general managers, five assistant GMs, five former GMs, three executives, nine head coaches, 10 defensive coordinators, five offensive coordinators, two offensive assistants, one defensive assistant, and two coaches specializing in analytics and game management. So it's 50 total. So these are people that know a lot about football. Hilary: I would love to know Emily: You know, like Hilary: who some of are. I would just love to know. Emily: I know, me too. Me too. I mean, he is Mike Sandoz, a Seattle guy. So you'd hope there's somebody from the Seahawks on there, but it has to be a 50. There's got to be every team represented somehow, I would think. but you know, we have opinions which we're gonna share, but you know, you and I aren't experts. So it is really interesting to see what these people say. I don't know if there's if they're like purely rating or if they ever have any like. agendas or digs that they want to get in. I have no idea because in some cases you'll find one person ranked them lower than everybody else. And you don't know if that's personal. But I look forward to this every year. so I thought we could just kind of do a quick walkthrough. We're not obviously gonna do a one hour session on this, but just kind of a Hilary: We could. Emily: we could. We're not going to we're just gonna Hilary: No, quick. Emily: we're just gonna just do a Quick reaction. So there were quarterbacks rated and they were placed in tier one through four so tier one means carries his team each week. The team wins because of him, expertly handles pure passing situations, has no real holes in his game. So these are your absolute, they are like literally game changers. So having this person on your team is going to absolutely lift up, even if you have some holes. So it's the names you would expect. and I should also say he actually has a ranking too, a pure ranking. So the number one QB is Mahomes. but what was interesting to me is one person voted him as a tier two. And I'm thinking I feel like that's somebody with an agenda, 'cause I don't think anyone would say that reasonably say that Mahomes is not a tier one quarterback. Agree? Hilary: I agree with that, but let's get through tier one and then I got some thoughts at the end. Emily: Okay, tier one. The next is a tide for second, but also tier one, Josh Allen and Matt Stafford. and then lastly is Burrow, Hilary: Okay. Emily: Joe Burrow. So I mean, I do think everybody would agree that all four of those are great quarterbacks, right? Hilary: agree that they're great quarterbacks. I don't agree with the ranking one through four. I think that Josh Allen is the guy. I think that Patrick Mahomes and especially Matt Stafford have more weapons at their disposal to throw the ball to, to help carry the team. I I think Josh Allen has to do a lot of it himself. There were multiple times last year when he just literally, through sheer willpower, put Buffalo on his shoulders and Tried to make a difference in the game, sometimes successfully, sometimes not. So I would rank him as the number one guy. and then maybe Patrick is below that. And to me, Matt Stafford is number four. I think he's a brilliant quarterback and I think his football IQ is amazing. But I think that he how do I wear this? He doesn't have to work quite as hard to be as good as he is because he's got a really great supporting cast. How's that? Emily: A good point. I agree. I think Josh Allen is number one. He's my number one quarterback. If you ask me who I'd most like to have, it would be Josh Allen. I think what was interesting. So there was an opportunity. If you have a subscription to the athletic, you can read it online. There's an opportunity for you to vote. So I went online and I voted and about what tier I thought a quarterback would go in. And then that would that revealed what the poll was for other people, if that makes sense. So, like non-experts. Hilary: yeah. Yeah. Emily: So as of the time of this recording, I don't know if it'll shift, 95% of people agreed that Josh Allen was a tier one quarterback. And that was the highest of all four. So next was Mahomes, 81% said he was a tier one quarterback. And I'm like, are you Hilary: Okay. Emily: are you crazy? Do you just not like him? and then came Matt Stafford, 79% said he was a tier one. And these are just regular people like me. Hilary: Sure, sure. Emily: And the last Joe Burrow was at fifty nine percent, which just shocked me. I think I think it's a little bit lazy to say he's not tier one. I mean, because the team wasn't doing well and because he was injured, and you're not looking at the defense. Hilary: Well, right. But so I I I guess it just depends on how you what what your metrics are. If you're hurt and you're not playing, you can't help your team. So i that could be people looking at that short sighted with Mahomes too, and that he missed a portion of last season with the injuries. Emily: Yeah, I mean, I think he's stellar. he's stellar. and I but I do think maybe what it highlights is no matter how great you are, you do need a defense. and when we say that these people carry the team, they can't literally on their own carry the team. And I feel Hilary: Correct. Correct. Emily: like that fifty-nine percent reflects probably people just thinking he's not as great because he hasn't won as much. I think so there's only four The one player that I disagree that I think should be in tier one is Lamar Jackson from Baltimore. Hilary: And he was last year, right? If the last year he was rated as a tier one, I think. Emily: Yeah, he was. I he's just one of my favorite quarterbacks. I love watching him play. I still think he's a number one, but only forty-six percent of people agreed with me. The rest of the world thinks that he's that he's a tier. He's at the top. So he's Hilary: In tier two. He's at the top of tier two, to be fair. He's number Emily: number he's number the fifth ranked quarterback, which I agree. Alan Mahomes, I'd probably put Stafford Burrow in that order, but not I mean, like these are just these are just like if I have to, I would love any one of those quarterbacks and Lamar. Okay. So I mean, it's just this is if you're forcing me to do it, that's the order I would do it. But moving on to tier two, we've got a bunch in tier two. Lamar Jackson is the first one. And then Justin Herbert. And if I think about that, I feel like there's some quarterbacks lower than Herbert that I would rank higher. I'm going to read through all the tier twos. Hilary: Okay. Emily: Dak Prescott, Drake May, Jared Goff, Jordan Love. Brock Purdy, Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels. You're probably wondering where's Sam. Baker Mayfield, Hilary: Ha ha ha. Emily: Sam Darnold, Trevor Lawrence, and Jalen Hurts rounds it out. So that's a very robust tier two list. Hilary: That is a really robust, and I would really have to think about the rankings of that whole group of players, but I'm not sure that Jalen Hurts would be the bottom of that group for me. I think I he's he's somewhere in the middle for me and definitely some other shuffling that I would do. But I I think that these a lot of these guys are probably closely ranked in their stats. Emily: I think they're all good quarterbacks. if I go back to the definition, tier two carries his team sometimes, handles pure passing situations in doses, or has other dimensions that elevate him above a tier tier three, has a hole or two in his game. The way I would think about tier two is that you can win a Super Bowl with this quarterback, assuming you have other pieces around you. And Hilary: Like a defense? Emily: Like a defense. I think if I go and look at these all, Herbert, Prescott, yes, May, I don't know. He went to the Super Bowl, he didn't win. That one's a little suspect to me. I know he had a good season. I need to see it this year. Gough, love, purdy, Caleb, Jayden, Baker, Sam, Trevor, Jalen. Yeah. I think you can win a Super Bowl with all of those quarterbacks. Hilary: Sam Darnold's an interesting one because I saw that he moved up a tier this year from tier three Emily: He he did. Hilary: to tier two. And I think that's fascinating that in last year's rankings he was in a tier three after his performance in Minnesota. Emily: all year long when he was performing, people were saying he hasn't won a big game yet. He hasn't won a big game yet. And like even after winning the NFC championship game, I feel like I heard he hasn't won a big game yet. I Hilary: Right. Emily: if any if we start the season and I hear anyone keep that that going, I'm like, he won the Super Bowl. I hope that that narrative goes away. He can win a big game. He has won multiple big games. so I I am glad he is our quarterback. I am thrilled to have him. Would I trade him for Josh Allen? Yes, sadly I would. But Sam Sam's Hilary: in a heartbeat. Yeah. Emily: a great guy. He's easy to root for. I'm glad we have him. so I'm let's move on to tier three. I'm gonna rattle them off. We have Bo Knicks, Aaron Rodgers. So clearly this is based on how he is now, because he's you know a Hilary: Mm-hmm. Emily: Hall of Fame quarterback in tier three. CJ Stroud, Daniel Jones, Bryce Young, Kyler Murray, Jackson Dart, Cam Ward, Tyler Show. How do you say his name? Tyler the Saints guy. Tyler. Hilary: Tyler. Yeah. Emily: Tua Tua and Kirk Cousins are all tier three. I will say I Bo Nicks, you were you were talking earlier about Denver and how you think they're looking good. I'm still not a Bo Nicks believer. It's not that I think he's bad quarterback. he was the first of tier three, so he's close to that tier two. He got a vote for tier one, which was interesting. I I feel like that's like a homer in Denver just saying he was tier one 'cause like that seems a little crazy to me. Hilary: I can't tell you how difficult it is for me to be a Bonex believer because he came from Oregon. Emily: I know. Hilary: But I think he has promise. I think he's still young. I think tier three is probably the right place for him this year. And I'd like to see him prove it to better his positioning next year. And I could say that about a couple of guys in this grouping. Emily: Yes. Same. I will call out a couple other things that that piqued my interest. one, CJ Stroud being a tier three. I've been so high on him since he entered the league. And I know he kind of had a stinker at the end of the season, but I hope we haven't given up on CJ Stroud. I think he's a phenomenal talent and I'd like to see him succeed, especially because he's in the AFC. So I can root for him. so Curious what will happen with him this year. And then the other one that I want to pull out, Cam Ward, who's the number one draft pick, was below Jackson Dart. Do we really believe in Jackson Dart more than Cam Ward? I don't. Hilary: I do not. I do not. I think Cam Ward is another one with a lot of raw talent who just needs some time to get his footing and his mastery of the game. I'm expecting bigger and better things from him this year too. Emily: Okay. Anything else in tier three you wanna call out before we move on? Hilary: Happy to see Daniel Jones there, I guess, you know, for Indianapolis. Emily: Yeah. Hilary: I'm hoping Emily: Same. Hilary: he's back from his injuries and I'm hoping he has a successful year because his career has been kind of up and down. And I I would like I I think this is kind of a prove it year for him, and I'd like to see him be solid and successful. Emily: Yeah, I agree. It's gonna be fun to watch. He was doing so well before the injury. Hilary: is there anybody in the tier three that you think should be in tier four? Emily: I'm not sold on Bryce Young. I just I don't know. I I don't I don't think he's a three comp as compared to the other threes. Kyler Murray, again, I'm not feeling high on Kyler Murray and Jackson Dart was a three, and I would have had him a four. two more. Tyler, Hilary: Okay. Emily: but only because honestly to be fair, I don't watch Saints games. So maybe I shouldn't even rank him. And Kirk Cousins. I Hilary: Yeah, does he still have it? I don't know. Emily: I don't think he's a three anymore. He used to be a good quarterback. I don't I don't think so. And I should call out they don't rate rookies. So if you're wondering where some of the new guys are, they're not rated yet. Obviously, they haven't played. so tier four, we have Malik Willis, Geno Smith, Deshaun Watson, and Michael Penix. they round out the top thirty two quarterbacks. And then if you keep going, you've got Jacoby Brissett, JJ McCarthy, and Shador Sanders. They rank thirty three, thirty four, and thirty five. Jacoby Brissett will be a starter. T B D on JJ McCarthy and Shador Sanders. Hilary: Ouch. Emily: So I don't know what you can say about them. I actually the only one I would maybe call out is Deshaun Watson. I think he was a four just because he hasn't played. I I don't think he's a four Hilary: Right. Emily: talent and if he can bounce back, I feel like he's a three at least, but who knows? Hilary: Hard to know. He's been sitting for a long time. Emily: Yeah, Anything else you wanna react to in that list? Hilary: Well, I guess what I'm gonna react to in that list is that I'm really concerned if I'm a Cleveland Browns fan. I'm really concerned if I'm an Atlanta Falcons fan when you know both of your people who are competing for your starting job are in these bottom tiers. I'm concerned if I'm a Vikings fan. Emily: Yeah. Hilary: Yeah. Emily: yeah, agree. It's good not to be down there. It's good to have a tier one or two quarterback for sure. Hilary: Yeah, let's cut this off. Emily: All right, well, Hillary, it was fun talking about preseason. we're getting really excited. We're close to the real season. It was fun talking quarterback tiers. That was a really interesting list. And we will see you when I see you, when we want to talk about Hilary: Yep. Emily: something else. Hilary: We'll be back soon with another reaction. There's lots happening.