Latest / The Bold Lounge / Angela Engel: Boldly Discover Your Authentic Story

Transcript

Angela Engel: Boldly Discover Your Authentic Story · The Bold Lounge

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: My name is Lee Burgess and I will be your host.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Every week, we'll hear from someone who has taken a leap or embarked on an extraordinary journey.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold growth mindset that they use to make things happen.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Whether they face challenges or doubts along the way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: These impactful stories will leave you feeling motivated and inspired to pursue your own bold journey.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be freed.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Tune in and get ready to be inspired.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Today we have Angela Engel, who grew up in Minneapolis, minnesota, and now calls Oakland, california, her home.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: For many years, she worked in sales and marketing for nationally known category leaders and publishing, including Chronicle Books, 10-speed Press, cameron Company, dwell Studios and Moleskine, and now has a partnership with Simon Schuster, which is an incredible partnership we're going to jump into.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: She has sold to key national and international retailers such as Amazon, costco, nordstrom and Target and became a sought after expert in the industry.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: She's now the founder of Collected Book Studio.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Angela has the opportunity to provide authors the support they need to get a book out into the world from start to finish and, in very important notes, she is my publisher, so I'm so excited to have you have fun with you in this way on the Bold Lounge.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Welcome, angela.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Thank you, I'm excited, too, to be here.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: All right, let's jump in to boldness.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: What is your definition of being bold?
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: What does it look like?
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: For me, I think the first word that comes to mind is just being authentic and true.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: I think that is my definition of bold, because I feel that has been my way since I was like I can't even have my first memory right.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: My first birthday party was at Chuck E Cheese and I'm five years old in kindergarten and I was turning six and I remember getting up on that stage actually with Chuck E Cheese and dancing and there was the gorilla at the time and I just think that's what it is being your authentic, true self.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: I am just so happy that someone knows who Chuck E Cheese is besides me.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: The gorilla on the piano was the best.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, and if you're a?
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: bold person, you would have gone up on stage, right yeah, for sure, my birthday.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah for sure, say it's your birthday.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: They're singing it away.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that is great.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: And for everyone who's too young to know what Chuck E Cheese is, google it.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: It is a piece of joint that was the place to go as a kid and have a party and had video games and this animatronic band on stage Just one of the best childhood members you have, probably or scary, I don't know.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: It could be one or the other.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: So when you think about being your authentic, true self, like stepping into it and, obviously, if we use, like the Chuck E Cheese example, like not caring what people think, like I'm going to get up and dance and I'm going to have fun and I'm going to do what I want to do and I'm going to be me.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: When was the first time or one of the memorable moments of boldness for you?
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Probably when I I mean, there's so many right you can't even go.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: I'm now, I'll date myself, but like I think, probably when I graduated college.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: I'm from the University of Oregon, I'm a duck, go, ducks, go, ducks.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: And I got my first job out of college in publishing and I think my first memory of like wow, I can be bold in the workplace was when, actually, we had a book that we had to work on called the four grievance.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know if anyone, if you remember that book, but it became a New York Times bestseller.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: It was published by a small publishing house in San Rafael called Amber Allen.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: And I was what?
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: 22, right out of college, 23 years old, and I had an incredible boss and she looked at me and she said, angela, we are going to make this a New York Times bestseller.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: And I was in marketing.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: I'm like, let's just do it, you know.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: And I was like, so I?
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: There was a whole group of people, there's a whole exact same as that.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: That's what came out of my mouth let's just do it.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: And I think my boss actually knew like, that young person is going to help me, us get there.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: And I think you know if you can have that power right away in your room.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: You know that when you hold that power you can really do anything.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure I resonate with that.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: At 22, kind of you had it in you like where did you get your boldness from?
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Did you kind of grow up that way?
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Do you always encourage to be bold?
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I was always encouraged to be bold.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: I come from my mother's an immigrant.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: She actually immigrated from Israel.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: I'm a granddaughter of Holocaust survivors, and then my father is Italian and my grandparents were born in Italy.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: They met in a place called New York City, that's so.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: I'm Jewish, italian and my husband always says I'm 100% Jewish and 100% Italian.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: There's no 50 50 here, so that's a whole lot of bold right.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then I grew up where my Catholic grandmother went to church every day but lived with us right and so and cooked for us and was just.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: She lived to 98 and she was I was the oldest kid and she went back to college.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: I remember this so well.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: She was so brilliant, but she was an arranged marriage from Italy and she was not able to go to college.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: And she went back to college and she was the oldest graduate from the University of Minnesota, at 81 years old.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: And I think living with that grandma and then having my mother also who, like although she was not bold in the same way as my grandmother, my grandmother, she's had these quiet subtleties, my mother of life, saying Listen, life is not as easy as you think it is, and so work hard, be hard and be you.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: So I think having those two dynamics of women in my house really allowed just me to feel like I can be whoever I want to be, and that power I think I've taken with me from a really young kid.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: I mean it comes apart of you and kind of how you grow up, like I always talk about how my parents were like you deserve to be at any table you want to be at, you know, and like I played boy sports because there wasn't a girl seeing soccer primarily.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: You know, I did things that people thought I couldn't do because I was a girl, or I tried things that maybe I wouldn't be successful at, but it was like you can do it, just try, you know, you don't know until you try.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what resonated with me when you were talking and this is something that's actually part of the book is that there's myths around being bold and like there's five that I think of, and one of the ones you just spoke about was that there's different ways to be bold and there's quiet all the way up to loud and you could be doing them all at the same time.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: You could choose to do one, never do the other, like it's really your personal definition, right, and people are quietly being bold every single day, and that's actually why the podcast came about, because people didn't realize it.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Like you're, you're being bold.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: I mean you founded your own publishing house, like how bold is that?
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, I thank you.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: It's interesting that you say that, because quiet, boldest is not a way I would describe myself.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: I am extremely loud.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: I'm extremely that person who's like, let's do it, yeah.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: However, when you ask me how I got the way I am, it's from two very different women.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: My grandmother, loud and like be whoever you want to be.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: You could have an arrangement, but that doesn't matter.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: My grandmother still ran my grandfather's business from the back.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: I had had four children, cooked and cleaned and then went to college, right, and was actually Valedictorian and she was born in 1908.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: That is my grandfather.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: My mother didn't have the opportunity to go to college.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: I grew up in an apartment in Manhattan, in Washington Heights, as an immigrant, with like in two bedrooms with three kids, and they didn't have any right and all their family was lost.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: So my mother, quietly, bold, like, almost like, said this daughter, my first daughter, is going to be able to be whoever she wants to be, and I think that is interesting to me is how quiet will this make?
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: My mother has always been for me, also pushes us in a way to allow us to do really great things and I have to really for both of these women say this is one of the big reasons I founded the collective book studio.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: You look at the title list.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: The women's voices that I publish, right, the underrepresented voices that I publish, the Jewish voices that I publish have a lot to do with that sort of foundation that I was laid for over what the last 46 years?
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: And I still, I still owe it to those two women.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's like levels of bold, especially, like, I think, of the females in my family, like my mom.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever said she's quiet.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: I mean she's very outspoken, she's very like to the point.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: But one of the things that you said is like my mom didn't go to college either.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: So, my mom, you weren't allowed to go to college pregnant.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: My parents married very early 17, 18 years old, about to celebrate their 60th next year but she had a nursing scholarship.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: But you weren't actually allowed to go to college if you're pregnant and a female, which is just ridiculous to even think about.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: But then she was like all my girls are going to school, all my girls are going to have a doctorate degree, like.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: So like the quiet, kind of semi-loud bold voice there was, like I'm going to make it better for the next, I'm going to do your, you're going to have the opportunity to do something I didn't get to do.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: So I think that's kind of a powerful.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Whether you realize it's quiet or bold, I think you know it is a quiet force that's kind of pushing you forward.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: That comes from you know, whether you're a friend or a family member or any of your loved ones, but it's there.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: The other thing that's important I think is cool about your bold story is your mom, how she supported you.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: But your grandmother really demonstrated like some boldness, like she was boldness on a platform.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Right, you could see it and she would be a louder example of that.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: She would also be the example of kind of busting the myth of it's too late to be bold.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, I love that I love that.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: You know, I think about my grandmother, born in 1908, right, and imagine this, right, you, I'm growing up in a Jewish Catholic household, so my grandmother is a problem solver.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: That's part of boldness, right, of course.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so she becomes like a leader in Catholic Jewish relations in Minneapolis, right, like she become, she embraces the fact that, like hey, this is my family I love.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: I love my family enough to actually say how do we build community around that so that my grandchildren and me and my extended family all feel really good About just loving and being together?
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: And then how can I actually spread that into the larger community?
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: And I think that's part of boldness.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: I think, as myself, as a founder and an owner and as a publisher, right, publishing work, people's words, ideas into the greater community.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: I do nonfiction and that's what I say.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: It's a problem.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Like the reader or the person who's reading this book has a problem and my authorship, they have a solution, right, they're able to provide somebody with really resources to help solve that problem.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: So when you think about kind of you went into 22, 23 years old, right out of college, we're going to make four agreements, a New York Times bestseller, you see that happen.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: What happens next between that moment and when you say I'm going to, I'm going to do my own thing, I'm going to make this what I want it to be and I'm going to showcase and amplify things that I think are not being amplified like they should.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, um, god, that's a wall, that's like a three hour podcast, but I gotta, I gotta, I gotta shorten that.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so like 22 to now.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Like it is a span, but like there's moments of like milestone boldness, totally, totally.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, I was never one.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: It's great.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: I have a friend Her name is Nancy Dean, who I worked at Chronicle Books with, and she was in senior marketing.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: So I moved very quickly from marketing I was only in marketing for like 20 years, a year and a half, okay Just into sales.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: And that was actually the same boss Her name was Trig McCloud said to me you are not a marketing person, you really have that sales personality.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: And I did.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: I have.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: I always say it's like the dark side.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: My sales were like really, really, we really know how to get that done and we just sort of are that way.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: So I spent really my career in sales and business development and I grew different ways to buy books in the marketplace.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: This is, you know, 20 plus 25 years ago, when Amazon, you know, was originally a bookseller and that's all that they did.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: This is that that same time that urban outfitters, anthropology, papyrus existed like little, these places were starting to sell books, and so that's what I did.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: I sold books outside of what they call the book trade and I built my career on the idea that a book is like an object that you have in the home, that you treasure and that you don't.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: It don't necessarily.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: All the consumers of a book aren't necessarily going to a bookstore, right?
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: They go into a table top store, they go into a jewelry store now and can find a book, so a department store.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: So I started to build my career around that and in that, you know, I landed at 10 speed press, which is now an imprint of Random House.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: But you know they published a book called what color is your parachute.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know if anyone's familiar with that has sold nine plus million at least copies and by Rick Bowles, and I love it.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: How I got the job at 10 speed press was I read the book what color is your parachute and I looked at the spine because I'm in publishing.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: I knew and I was like what will publish this book?
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: I loved it so much.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: It's about career development and I think I'm like purple and I think that has to do with the job is not written for you.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: That was sort of my color parachute, like my job.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: It wasn't written for me.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: So I wrote the publisher a letter.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: There was no job posting and anything that just was like hey, I think I would be really good working here and why I'm like 25 at the time and the owner of the company gives me a phone call and asked me to come in with the office and I come in for an interview and I was just bold.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: I was like I love the titles that you have on your list, but they are not on this, this, this, this and this retailer shelf.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Using examples of target, using examples even of Safeway, because he did a lot of grocery cookbooks and I got a job.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: I got a job that was never written.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: He said, listen, if you think you can get my books into these retail spaces, I want you to buy your first taxes again.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: What color is your parachute?
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Back into target, I said deal in the interview and guess what?
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: It got back into target on the planet ground.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: And so I think, if you, I leave with that like that job wasn't written for me and that same kind of heart is how I founded my own company.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: No one was going to solve a problem that I saw in the industry, which was with there has to be a way in our industry to create really good books, to carry really good packaging, to work with authors and entrepreneurs in an environment where they don't have to wait three to five years to get their books on the shelf, and they also don't have to go the self publishing route, which is a whole nother ballgame that.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Another podcast.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: And so I was like how can I and you kind of tell us out of this?
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: In the very beginning, I have to know a partnership and distribution with Simon and Schuster, because I knew that insiders my whole team are people that have worked in the industry for decades could create books differently and our authors could.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: We could do them quicker, in 18 months.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: We could have allow our authors to own more of their IP, their, you know, intellectual property.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to think about ways to publish differently and I think that's bold, I do.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely think it's bold.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: It's probably I don't know if it's easier or harder but it's a different way to work with an author.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: You know, obviously this is my first run through it, but I get to share my opinion to a degree.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Right, I get to say this is what I want to do, and you can say, okay, well, this is how it's done.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: How do we kind of make what you want to do and what's actually possible?
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: How do we make that happen?
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: So that's also what you do, is that you actually allow people to be.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: What you said was a definition authentic and true which I don't know if that happens in these other places, but you know the timing of it and, like your ability to give your opinion, I think it's a little bit more limited, or a lot more limited in some of those other spaces, and so I think you also left that shine.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: So I want to amplify that, because being authentic and true as an author is is one of the best gifts you could have, and then kind of get into that space and do that.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: What's been your biggest surprise when it comes to sales and selling now, in 2023, versus even, let's just say, five years ago, because a lot of people who are listening probably do some type of marketing or sales or they might even have their own book.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: Everyone's writing a book these days and I say writing a book is easy, writing a good book is hard.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, and it's really hard.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: And marketing a book, people forget that that's really hard to write, like it's, and distribution, I mean, there's so many aspects of it.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that the selling of the books are it's very different, and I can tell you, I'm learning every day.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, the fact is is that Amazon has changed the way that we publish, the way that we are engaged in books.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: We have to all sort of understand that, and we have to almost move beyond it, right?
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: So for me, what I say is that you know, amazon is a one selling platform.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: That is a big market share, but that is the same if you sold a blanket or a lipstick.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: It's a mega retailer that we sell to and that we have to understand.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: So, when people who are listening are in marketing or SEO or words, we also have to now understand that from a marketing perspective, on Amazon, however you are published traditionally self hybrid partnership, that platform of Amazon is a marketplace.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: You have to understand from an SEO, from a keyword search and all of that 100%.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: That said, consumers are smart and they want their books to not have typos.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: They also want their books, though, to feel good in their hand.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: There's a tactile relationship we have with the printed and written word.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: I think that my books outshine that.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: When you see them, when you hold them, the quality is not just in the writing, it's actually in everything from the paper to the binding, to the cover design, as well as the content.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: I think once that when consumers are smart, they come back.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Which is the greatest thing of selling is that we have just a community full of book bloggers who reach out to us, dm us, are so excited about our next book that's coming out, can't wait to read it.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: I think that's the best feeling as an entrepreneur and owner is that we've created a base, a real base, a fan base, but also it doesn't feel like they're a fan base that we don't engage in.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: It almost feels like more like a community.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: It's definitely community.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: I think reading your books is an experience.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: You have the content of the book, which is the quality, the writing, the support that goes into that and the people that you have at the ready for the author.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Then, like you said, it is the look, the feel, the touch of the book.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Anyone's the book lover.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: We always talk about our bookshelves and what kind of bookshelves we have and what's on them and having been to IKEA gotten a billy, I don't know.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of things that if you're a reader or even someone that just casually reads, it isn't just about what's inside.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: It really is about the whole experience of the book.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: I do think that as people get to know more about you in the episode notes more information click away, check her out on her website.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: You can see all of the authors that she's published.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: But it really is an experience.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: It's not just something that's printed on demand and those types of things.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: What's interesting about?
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Just?
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: We're not Amazon bashing, but I think what we're talking about is we have a part of the market that we realize we can't overcome or change or eliminate.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: It is what it is.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: It's also helpful for selling books, which is what we want to do.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: I think that it's something that, as we think about too in life.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: We can't always eliminate something that might be a hurdle or a bump or competitor or something that we wish wasn't there.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: We just have to actually figure out how to work with it and how to advantage it or how to minimize its impact on smaller bookstores or local bookstores and those types of things.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: I think that's where you also have a strategy of supporting that ecosystem as well.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: A hundred percent.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, I have to say and everyone would understand this, especially as an owner outsourcing is our best way to really If I think, okay, amazon is not what I need to know personally, but I need to be able to use it, meaning okay, is there an outsource, which I just did?
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: There's an outsource company that can help me manage what is happening, how to match my books with other products.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: What's so interesting now about Amazon is listen, look at your sweatshirt.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: I'm looking at it right now.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Everyone you won't be able to see this, but she has this hashtag bold.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: The reality is, is your book out there in the world is going to have something and maybe we want to match it with some clothing.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: These are experts that live in this Amazon world that we can outsource.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: I would rather be in Miley, which is publishing gorgeous books, working with the book community, working with the librarians.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: I just did an incredible webinar with the American Library Association and they had hundreds of librarians on this webinar and the chat and the questions when I was able to present my books to these librarians.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: That engagement is what I love doing.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: There's no AI, there's no computer, there's no algorithm.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: It is literally book people librarians, watching us talking about our books and then chatting with us and engaging with us.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: I think that that is really exciting to me because that means that people still love a book that they like to actually engage in, both with the author, the content and the people making the book.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Why would we publish it?
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: That was really, really interesting to me is that book?
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: People want to understand even why we would want to publish a book, for example, on migrant stories, which we are.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: We're publishing an incredible book by a man named Philip Cortez who lives in El Paso, texas, on the border stories.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: It's a really sweet story and I love engaging in people because they ask us why we want to publish it and we go.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: It's important and timely.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's important to someone I think you were also taking, in the sense of you're making your decisions based on the greater good versus I want to sell a bazillion things to Amazon.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: From the perspective of being able to even decide what you do, I think that's also bold, how you pick your story, how you amplify the journey.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Again, going back to you, you're living your definition of authentic and true because you're doing it in all these different ways for other people as well.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: I think that is the amplification of bold.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: That is you being you but also allowing other people to be authentic and true.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: There's something definitely to be said about that when you think about all the things that you learned in the middle the sales, the sales and how to do that.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: I love that you're someone that put books in anthropology, because I buy my books, I buy some of my books out of anthropology, definitely buy books and target.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: There was like we can be more creative around that.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: If someone's trying and maybe it's not book selling, but maybe it's just something else that they're trying to do, how did you approach that?
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: How did you say we could do this differently?
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: What was a light bulb for you that said we should put books in a closed store.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: That's a great question.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Well, the reality is that Borders, walden, all of these big B-dolten, they're no longer.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: The fact is that our bookstores have actually shrunk.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: It's interesting that bookstores that are really incredible in my mind right now that they're thriving is something like third place books in Seattle, where they also have you can go get a beer and cafe.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: I think of here, copperfields and San Rafael, where I go grab a sandwich, a coffee and I can also do a book.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: It's interesting to see how that has changed.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: The bookstores have been able to think about culture in a different way.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: I think that that is how I view books.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: I shop at Target.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: I have $3.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: Hello, you're a target a lot.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, yes.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: The fact is, of course, if you are a busy human being and you're at Target a lot, you have three kids.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Where are you going to go get a book?
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Where are you going to go?
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Look, where are you going to go?
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: We have to be on.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: There's something to be said about the impulse buy.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: That's what I always think about when I say your cover is so important.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: People do judge a book by its cover.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: You often have 15 seconds because people are busy.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: They're putting their soap, their laundry, their chips, whatever they're putting in, then they walk by that eye 15 seconds.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: If your cover caught their eye, they're going to pick it up.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Then they're going to turn it over.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: They're going to read your marketing copy on the back, all of those things.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: They're going to maybe be like oh, this is really interesting.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: Those things matter.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Then, if you can put a little foil on it or gold on it or a special trim on it or something in the color of the pantone, all of that matters.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: The earrings I'm wearing today I bought them at a street fair.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Because they caught my eye.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: There's tons of people's, vendors, selling stuff.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: If we think about a book that way, I think that's what actually elevates my press and that is actually why I think I'm gonna have a New York Times bestseller.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: I know actually I wanna use that word I know I will have a New York Times bestseller because it is not about one market channel.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: To make a New York Times bestseller, you have to be able to sell that book across all market channels, and that's what's being bold nowadays is to really step away from an AI mindset, a technical mindset, and say, whoa, how do I create something that kind of can be an interesting thing that someone can connect with and touch and feel and also really enjoy the structure and the read.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think AI can ever replace the sense of being able to think what it means to be personable, what it means to be informed, what it means to be inviting, very good at making lists and bullet points and those types of things.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Anyone that's used it it's like pro at that.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: But outside of that, like there is no way that it could actually create the experience, right, and I think the one thing you talked about was the connection between culture and the convention.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Like the convention of how books are supposed to be sold, but the culture of kind of how we live today, it's very different, right, and it's different in different communities.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: Sometimes the bookstore may be where everybody goes, like for example, here in New Hampshire, in Dartmouth, like the bookstore downtown is hopping, it is so tiny but there's like 50 people in it, little cafe, cause the kids are there, right, and I say kids, but no offense to anyone that's below 50, but I'm below 50.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, go, your kid, you're young, you're young.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: But anyway, like you know a lot of young people in there.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: I love the vibe in there and it's always packed.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: So, like it becomes sometimes some of those places that now becomes where people socialize, which is kind of your examples too of Copper.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: It's a Copperfield, yeah, copperfields for sure, yeah.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: And so, like I love that, the book is like what brings people in.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: And then there's a social aspect of it too, and that's where I think AI can never replace, it can support the AI plus humans can really kick some things that you know and go faster and do some things.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: But you know, from the perspective of what you're talking about, how you sell and how someone wants something and what you know.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: The book is judged by the cover.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the cover real quick the title.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: So when someone thinks about the title of their book, it is.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: It's an interesting process and I haven't even gotten to that.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: I just call my book right now the bold book.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: That's not the title of the book, but that's how we refer to it.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: But what's the algorithm?
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: What's the way someone comes up with a catchy title?
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Because that's oftentimes too, besides the feel, the look, the color, you know some gold, you know gold on the side how does someone create a cool title?
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: What goes into that?
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Oh my.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: I mean I have to give my hat off to developmental editors, okay.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: I mean they really are able to dive in with an author and talk about the content, what is in the book, what is the vision, what's the mission, and then how do we pull from that right and create a title is so dynamic and I think it for us, we allow in our model for that first seed to come kind of from that development until editor and the author right, and then we kind of we have like an I have an internal, literally internal meetings and they're separated.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Once a month.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: It's an adult and a kid, so I'm on twice a month in my internal team and we have our developmental editors brainstorm with us, put things in the chat, like, and then we come from operations, acquisitions, sales, marketing and we're like ooh, we like that subtitle or that one and it's so collaborative and I think that is some of the best way to make art and I think people forget that literature and books and fiction, the greatest nonfiction, children's books, cookbooks, lifestyle books this is a work of art.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: It is not so simple as I can be in my silo.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: You really do want people to give you that feedback because they're coming from it from many different angles, and we also have to think what else is out there and how is yours gonna be a little bit different?
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: I've said this a lot and I'll say it again I do believe that everyone has a story, but not everyone can write a book, and so it is actually really bold to write a book and to be able to step back from yourself and go how can I rework it, how can I really stay true to my message but also get that feedback?
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: That is actually bold to allow someone in yeah, it's vulnerable for sure.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, From a whole, from different angles.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Like okay, maybe I should talk about that.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: My thing that I keep hitting up against is like more stories, more examples, more examples, more stories.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: Cause I'm a very academic writer just because of my background, right, and working on my dissertation at the same time.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: So it's just like okay, like over here, I gotta write like this and over here I gotta write like this.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: I figured it out, but it took me a couple of weeks, kind of the sweet spot in between, and for me it was like just start talking to someone, like you're actually working with one of your clients.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: I was making it too hard, Angela, and I think sometimes we do that in life too like when we try to start something or get something going and it doesn't have to be writing a book, but we make it too hard Cause we think it needs to be analytical, it needs to be this, it needs to have these ingredients or this special pen or whatever it may be, and it really just start like talking to someone you would work with or help in through the framework.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: So it's kind of an interesting juxtaposition of like you're writing this.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: It feels like a very big thing, but you can do it in a way that feels genuine to you, going back to kind of what we talked about at the beginning, like it just be authentic and true and be yourself, and it kind of starts to flow and I think that's also where the titles come from Like it needs to bring you in, pull you in, and I think that we can also think about that in our messaging and how we communicate, kind of in a broader sense as well.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Would you agree with that?
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean personally.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: I think when you're talking to me, it's about, for me, like happiness I what I'm listening to you, I'm thinking about authentic and bonus is also happiness, and we sometimes forget that happiness does not necessarily mean you know that we have to climb this and have this huge pot of money and then we're left on the mountain, right Right, like, rather, what is these small steps that can create happiness?
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: in our lives Like that's what I'm agreeing with with you.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: It's like it could be as small, as like I'm gonna come back, for your mom is like those memories of like, oh, how is my mom pushing and then writing that story, that little happiness story in your boldness, right In your book, that that story, that little happiness story.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: When a reader reads it they think to themselves, huh, I had that.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: How did that change me?
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: How can I learn from that?
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: What is Lee teaching me that I actually just thought of, and now I'm 55, right, oh, my God, I just read in your book something that has been in me since I was 10 years old and I never recognized it.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: That is the gem that we try to teach our authors and I think the gem that why you're being stretched and pulled right To say, hey, write it from a trade perspective, from a layman's perspective, not from an academic perspective, because everybody, that story is quite universal.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the first read was really boring.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: It was like a textbook and I'm the first one that said so and what's cool, and I think the extrapolation out to like people's lives.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: You don't have to write a book to do some of the things we're talking about.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: But I needed to truly make it my story, a book that no one else could write, because my journey is different than anyone else's.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: But what we find out when we write it is someone else can connect to it, they can have that argument, they can go wow, I'm not alone.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: They can go.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Well, I went through that too and it sucked, whatever it may be, and it's like well, look at her, she's doing it.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: She's, you know, overcome it, or she's still going, or, you know, she believed and she did, you know.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: So I think that's really the powerful thing about books is that they can transport you, they can bring you out of something, they can help you escape.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: You know they just have such a power.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: So I can't thank you enough for doing what you do, not only for authors and people who have hoped to write a book and learning, but also for people that read them, because you're giving everyone else that permission to be authentic, to be their true self and to escape or to advance or to understand something better.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: So I just have to thank you for that, because it really means a lot, and not only because I'm one of one of yours, but just because it means a lot for all those stacks of books that people have in different places and spaces in their home.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, I really appreciate that because, you know, I it's funny I'm in the Bay Area and everyone I feel like is in tech, and so I say what I do and it's like what exactly you mean you have you use paper, and I really appreciate that because it is, you know, something that is so special that I get to do every day.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Right, I get to sort of be part of like, what are what's society telling us?
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: What is our literary culture, what is our?
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: You know, when you're writing this in time, it's 2023, it'll be out in 2024.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: It's like you're almost, you know, explaining what we need right now in society, right, and it's a really it's an important time to solve some of these big things, which in your book you're really talking to leadership, and I think that we haven't really touched on that in the podcast.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: We've talked about connection, like your mom came up.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: My mom came up with just that could be in a book, right, we didn't even know we were going to talk about that, but these tiny stories are universal.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: What also is interesting to me is the concept of leadership and what boldness is there, and I'd love to kind of explore that with you.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: I know I'm asking you the question now, but I love, I want to know like, and I'm really curious how does our boldness help and aid us in our also as leaders?
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: I think it actually creates a ripple effect, honestly.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: So someone sees you, for example, as a leader.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: You know in a meeting being quiet during something that's being said that you know isn't accurate or isn't potentially the way that it went down, but you see your leader kind of listening, taking it in, being quiet, and you realize they're going to, they're going to correct or, you know, do what they need to do, quietly, later.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: It isn't about being bold and it may say you're wrong.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: And I think, as a leader also, you may be actually buffering your team from things you may be advocating for your teams and I think that's something that I think is really important because in my mind is like, especially in the time we're in of like budget cuts and having to, you know, lower our staff count, one of the things I always would do first is like what can I get rid of?
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: That isn't a person you know.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: So, first thing you do and many people know it like you anything that's posted and not filled.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, there's a savings right there.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: I will going to hold on those.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Maybe we can do a little less of this and things that I would always protect where the people and professional development I would always have the highest professional development budget line and any team I was in because I thought it was so important for us to learn to connect, to have people come outside in, and so I would protect everything around that, like, could we delay something?
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: Could we not?
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: Actually, maybe we can just live with these desk or live with.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: You know, these things, you know that just aren't as important as the people.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: So I think those are bold moments and leadership.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: And when your staff and the people that look to you for leadership see you doing that, they go.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, those are the bold moments.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: There can be louder bold moments, you know, when you're standing up for what's right or, for my example, like I was in healthcare so standing up for patients and their loved ones that may not be at the table but you're like, okay, we can't do it that way, we just can't.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: And sometimes it works, sometimes like it flows, and sometimes you can get in trouble for it, meaning like you didn't drink the cool later, you didn't do what you do.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: So I think those are the bold moments and leadership.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: So for me, education, professional development, putting that in my budget and always backing it up with I'm not going to lower it because we need to, we need to actually support them.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: So I think those things are like little leadership moments.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: But you can have leadership in the workplace, you can have leadership in your family, in with your friends, and they all become like different moments that you become like a demonstration or someone who's actually advocating or doing the things that your friends or your family need or need to see, and then they know they can do it.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: And I think that's the really cool thing is that you don't even know.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: You don't even know who you're inspiring by your actions.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Like you're inspiring people, I'm inspiring people.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: That's hard for me to say honestly.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Like no, I, it is hard.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Like I just not that type of person, but I do think I am and I know you are.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: So I think those are like the moments that you don't even realize as a leader when you're inspiring others, and I think that's a whole bunch of bold leadership right there.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: No, I mean, you inspired me by just listening to you.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, as you know, I'm going into year five as a company and I'm thinking, gosh, I should put some professional development.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: I've done like a little conference here or there if someone's reached out, but then, but really to take that bold move and be like, no, this is a budget line and we we're not going to cut it, but we might be able to cut, you know, some ad revenue or some other things and some social media, like, is that social media really working for us?
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: So that's a really, because out of professional development, then there's skill sets that our own staff is going to gain to probably bring some of that stuff back in and make us all more efficient.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: So that was inspiring for me, just yeah well, congratulations on year five.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: That's wonderful.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: And, yeah, pd helps people also feel valued and connect.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: You know I always had an expectation you're going to come back and teach us and share with us.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: It wasn't like just go, you know, have a good time in Orlando or wherever they went and go to Disney.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: Why are they with your family?
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: It was like you're going to come back and teach us something too.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: But I think there's also that part of leadership is realizing that your, your staff and the people who work with you and that you support.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: You know your job is actually to do more for them than them for you.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: You know so a whole bunch of ways that we can lead quietly or loudly too.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: So in an all different, the 3D world that we live in, you know it's not just work.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: We have our friends and our family and our work and there's a whole bunch of ways that we can do that.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: I hope I get to meet you in person center.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: Remember, I'm going to Nashville.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: Tennessee for that writers fest.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: I was like, maybe I don't know how, I know it's far for me, but I was like maybe there's some way I can see you.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: That's a cool thing you do too.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: You kind of you get out there and I think, like you did with the librarians, I'm sure the other industry folks might do this.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: I just don't see it and I don't like for me, so there's no proof of it.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm sure they get out and sell their books and do those types of things, but I mean like, okay, let's just talk about books, let's talk about, you know, the ethos of what we do and how we do it and how these stories are important.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: Like you said, everyone has a story, right.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: But everyone can't write a book.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: But how can we help the stories that need to be told be told, and be told sooner, right?
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: And that's the other thing that you do, which I love because I'm all about agility is like, does it really need to take five to seven years to write, to get a book out?
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: Because then isn't the topic stale and hasn't it changed 10 times over?
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: Because, even as I'm, writing.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: I'm growing and I'm like, oh, I don't like that example anymore.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: I got to go back, you know, and so and this is a very short period of time, so I do hope we meet in person.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: I'm so happy you've been on the Bull Downs.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: All the information about Angela and the collective book studios below definitely check them out, thank you.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: Through the continuum of bold stories vulnerability to taking a leap you will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important story.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of those with a bold mindset.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next bold journey with you.