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Rise and Fall Stories with Uncle Steve · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, and welcome to another exciting episode of Pittsburgh Sports Memories.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Steve Wirt.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: And as usual, I'm joined with by.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Tim Hannon.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: And uh today we're gonna do um, I don't know, I I don't know what to call this, so we'll call it uh short stories with uh Uncle Stevie.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: Just to kick this off, um uh I like a uh here's a quote by Mark Twain.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: He said, I like a good story well pl told, and that is the reason I am sometimes forced to tell them myself.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: So in that vein, we are going to be telling these stories ourselves because we can't trust anybody else to tell them, okay, Tim.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing like Mark Twain to pick to kick off a Pittsburgh sports podcast.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, you know, I we had somebody else too.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: The air is yeah, divine, you know, the air is human.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: So um we always aim high on this though for culture.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, yes.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: Much like uh Chuck Knoll directing the Pittsburgh Symphony.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: So we're going for it.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: So um how I kind of arrange this is uh I put uh uh certain people into groups, and um, we'll just kind of go with their rise and fall and whatever happened to them.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so it just kind of, you know, just you'll get it as I go along.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: They're different groupings, and I don't want to give them all away.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: But um, so the first up, we're gonna talk about uh athletes that uh left for greener pastures.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: So um the people that left for uh the money ch-ching, huh?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh the first person would be one Neil O'Donnell, uh a name that uh brings up much uh controversy and I guess uh division in Pittsburgh at least.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: So um the rise of Neil O'Donnell, uh such as it was, was uh he was a Steelers third-round pick out of Maryland in 1990.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: He started eight games in 1991, he was a starter in 1992, and uh that year the Steelers uh went 11-5.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Neil had 13 touchdowns and nine interceptions.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um in 1994, he had a great AFC championship game.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think he set actually records for attempts and completions in that game, but unfortunately, the one incompletion he is most remembered for is the uh fourth and three throw.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: So that kind of happened to him, unfortunately.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um in 1995, he had an even better season as a pro with uh 17 touchdowns and seven interceptions, and he may he got the Steelers all the way to Super Bowl 30.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that was kind of the high point of Neil O'Donnell's career in Pittsburgh.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um I would say the AFC championship game, and then Super Bowl 30, not so much, because then he kind of fell off there.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: He threw two interceptions to Larry Brown to seal the win for Dallas and got blamed for the uh loss, maybe a little bit more than I don't know.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think he deserved more blame or got the appropriate blame?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: Probably got the appropriate blame for that, huh?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was appropriate, and um, you know, it was definitely um it definitely was probably more than it would have been because of what happened next, which you're about to talk about.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: So um Neil decided to uh cut a cut and run, so he ran out of town on a free a on a free agent contract to sign with the Jets.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: So whatever happened to good old Neil after Super Bowl 30.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um we have a quick clip of uh Neil O'Donnell uh expressing his uh gratitude to be with the New York Jets.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: So uh here that is.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited to be here.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh I came back to New York because it's uh it's a great challenge and a great opportunity.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: So there's Neil in uh loving uh life in New York, and uh why wouldn't he?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: Because he signed a$25 million contract, which at the time was the biggest in Jets history.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: And um actually the uh Jets were trying to replace Boomer Osyason, so they kind of needed a quarterback, and uh Neil O'Donnell fit the bill.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so how did Neil uh follow that up?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he followed it up in uh pure uh his fashion.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: He did not have a good year at all.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think he only played six or eight games and he got hurt and missed the rest of the season.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think the Jets went 1-16 and Rich Codite got fired.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: Rich Cotite was not a very good coach.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but the Jets did make a smart move and they hired Bill Parcells.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: And uh he had a pretty good year with Bill Parcells that one year.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then he left after that and he went to Cincinnati, where he uh beat the Steelers one time by just throwing jump balls to Carl Pickens over Dwayne Washington.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, do you remember the game?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: And this is with the Jets when they went up to Detroit, and like the NFL had a weird rule where like if you made too much noise, like it was like, oh, we'll take a timeout away from the home team.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: And like I guess Parcells or I probably Belichick too, or like they tried to like make a point of that, like they would like step under center and he'd be like, Oh, I can't hear, oh no.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: And the officials like warned the crowd like once or twice, and they were like, Yeah, what do you want us to do?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: It just made like people get louder.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know if anybody remembers that except for me, but I I remember it.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was you know when it was it was the last game of the 97 season, and I think it was like a whoever won that game made the playoffs kind of scenario, so it was like a huge game, and the Detroit fans, that was back when people actually cared about the Lions, were were very much into the game.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, Neil, you're right, Neil just kind of kept walking away from those from the center, like shrugging his shoulders, like, what do you want me to do?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: I can't snap the ball with them screaming.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: And and the refs obliged.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was yeah, it was a weird role, it didn't last very long.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Or uh don't really see that today, but that was that was a typical Barcel Parcell's Belichick.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, like the role that nobody knew about, but they they could exploit.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: And it absolutely did nothing because it was like, okay, uh lose a timeout.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the fans didn't care.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think they even enforce it.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, uh, we're not gonna do that.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's like so uh good for Detroit.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um I remember the Cincinnati game.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: I watched that with you where they just he just kept throwing jump balls to like Carl Pickens, and Dwayne Washington could do like absolutely nothing about it.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that hurt.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um he he finished up with Tennessee for five years.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I mean he I think he played one more game in Pittsburgh, and I think somebody hit him and like busted open his lip, but that was like bad because then Steve McNair came in and like drove the field and beat the Steelers.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: So that wasn't so great.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so what is he really doing now?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: He's uh actually selling AstroTurf in Kentucky and Tennessee.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: So um a fun fact about uh Neil O'Donnell, in 2004 he almost returned to the Steelers when Charlie Bratch and Tommy Max both got hurt.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: Bill Cower asked him to come back, but he decided I guess he was ready for uh retirement.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: I totally forgot about that.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder how close he was to actually doing that.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, do I want to come back?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'll settle my millions.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm good.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Neil wasn't a horrible quarterback, he was just kind of like a journeyman quarterback that was okay.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: He was never like, you know, anything special, but used to be able to win a Super Bowl with a guy like that, but I don't think you really can't.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: He kind of reminds me of like a Ryan Tannehill or like who else, like somebody like like Kirk Cousins.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: Kirk Cousins, yeah.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just kind of like one of those guys.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and you know, if they would have lost that game to Dallas by 20 points, or heck, even if they would have lost it the same score that they did, but it would have just been, oh, you know, Troy Aggman and Emmett Smith just outplayed Neil O'Donnell and Bam Morris and the Steelers offense, then it's like, okay, right?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think anybody, you know, I think I think everybody remembers Neil a little more fondly than they do.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: It throwing those interceptions just killed any legacy he had in this.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, he makes it up now by selling AstroTurf.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: So if you needed any AstroTurf for your high school stadium andor backyard, if you want to be like the Britty bunch, I guess.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: And he's your man.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh keeping in theme with uh Steelers from the 90s that you may have well, nobody forgets about Neil O'Donnell, but you might have forgotten about this guy.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um Eric Green.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I people might remember him.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he was a first round, 21st.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: He was the first round draft pick out of Liberty.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, uh I didn't write down what year.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: It was early 90s.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: It was 1990.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: So 21st, that's pretty high.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's a decent pick.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a high pick, I guess it's like lower round, but still the first round.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he held out his rookie training camp, which I guess like back then was like, ooh, what are you doing?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because there was no free agency yet.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but he did sign with the Steelers eventually after a call from his head coach at Liberty, who was, and I can't believe I'm going to say this name, Sam Retigliano.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: And um the the selling point was that um they promised to run uh Red Wright 88 for Eric Green, at least once a game.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: Once a game.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: So anybody listening in Cleveland might get that joke, but if not, look up Red Wright 88.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: You'll you'll you'll get it.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um he actually he made to the part of his rise, he made two Pro Bowls, and he really was a focal point of the Steelers' offense for the early 90s.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in 93, he had 63 receptions and five touchdowns.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: In 94, he had 46 receptions and four touchdowns, which pretty good for that as offenses.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what happened the fall?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: He held out again, I guess.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: What four-year contract?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: So his last year he held out again.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, Steelers actually like signed of the$1.4 million deal for one year, and he had a good season, but then like free agency hit, and that was back when the Steelers really didn't sign free agents, and we'll kind of talk about that later in the broadcast a little bit.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: He left via free agency for Miami, and he became the highest.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, another guy he had the highest paid tight end in the NFL at that time, and he actually had a good year.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think back then 46 receptions and three touchdowns for a tight end were pretty good.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I know nowadays that might not be the greatest.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: I I think that would still like at least put you at least a little above the middle of the pack, wouldn't you?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: He he was definitely, you know, I mean uh that was before the days of of people like Travis Kelsey or Gronk or those guys.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean you you had you had some some really standout tight ends back then, but you didn't I don't know, it wasn't like today where they were kind of functioning as another wide receiver, and he was he was pretty dominant at one point.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was a it was a short period of time for sure.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um but he was also very polarizing.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, very you know, a guy that you kind of loved him or hated him, or or sometimes that would change in the same season.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think the holding out for money, like people like kind of got him a bad rap.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um after that, he only had one more good year with Baltimore in 97.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: He had 65 receptions and five touchdowns, which I mean that's pretty good considering Vinetesta Verde was throwing the ball to him.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: But that was kind of the end of it.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: But he had a decent career, he really did, even after he left the Steelers.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I think more of the fall was like people just didn't like him in Pittsburgh.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: I I really think it was the holding out for money, and this was like when free agency was kind of just coming in, like people didn't really hadn't adjusted, fans hadn't adjusted the free agency.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because back then, you know, you never left the team unless you got cut, you know, or I don't know, your contract ran out.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um he retired in 1999 after a nine-year career.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: He lives in Florida and now coaches AAU teams.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: There really isn't a lot on Eric Green.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah, he I mean his last season was really dice.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: That 94 season, he he first of all, he's the one that had them all make that rap video for the Super Bowl, which they did not go to.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: So everybody kind of remembered that because everybody was really upset about, you know, why are you making a rap video?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, you I didn't realize he was the ringleader on that, yeah.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh supposedly that was his idea.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you know, that's that's what that's what the story is.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other thing that same season, uh he and Barry Foster did an interview with Chris Collinsworth, who was at the time on inside the NFL, and basically just told Chris Collinsworth, like, yeah, we're not gonna be here when the season's over.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like gave him this big like scoop.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, why would you why would you I mean this was like you know, week 14 of the season or something.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why would you talk about that now?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: It it's one thing to want more money or to leave.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Plenty of guys did that, especially back then, like you said, the early days of the salary cap.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like you're you're telegraphing your way out when the season's like in its clutch moments.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: I I think that just rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, also.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it would be one thing like, oh, I want to win a Super Bowl this year, and then next year we'll let it play out, see how it turns out.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like maybe that would have been a little more fan-friendly.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's and that's what you would say today.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think now that people are more media savvy.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it'd be like we'll we'll we'll figure it out in the offseason.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just focused on winning the Super Bowl for the city of Pittsburgh.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly what you can say there.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 14:30
  unknown: Yeah.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, moving on, boy, a lot of early 90s Steelers.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then another guy black glass from the past, uh, Jeff Graham.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if I remember him.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember anybody else.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: Remembers him.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I do.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: He became a starter for the Steelers after being drafted in 1991 in the second round.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: And that's really all I have about like Jeff Graham's rise because he really wasn't like he dropped a lot of passes.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like he had the drops.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I remember one time, I think it was against Houston, like, and that was that Buddy Ryan defense where the way to beat it was like to throw a deep pass.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: And like Tom Zack hits him, it had to be Tomzak, hits him with like a perfect pass and he drops it.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then like the I think that was the play where Tomzak got like beat up by was it Dolman or one of the defensive linemen from for Houston, like drug him around by his helmet and like started punching him in the face.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, not only did like we could have scored a touchdown on that, like we didn't score a touchdown, and Mike Tomzak got beat up for like absolutely no reason.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Jeff Graham, Jeff Graham was a talented receiver, and and you're gonna talk about what happened after he left.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: He was definitely talented.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: He just, I mean, he you know, he he he just dropped everything.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: When when he left the Steelers after the 93 season, um, I I I I would love to find this.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: It would be impossible to find.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: I've even looked on YouTube.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: KDK, the local station here, did a montage of all his drops.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like they literally, on this news, they just did a montage.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and the one that you're talking about in Houston, that was a that was a uh ESPN game.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And they're showing the replay like in this montage, and I think Joe Thysman was the announcer.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: And Joe Thysman goes, it's like he's not even trying to catch.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and it was it was just so bad.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it it was one of those things where like he can't really be that bad.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: He's just in a funk.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that was probably before the days of like sports psychologists and all that kind of stuff, right?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Remember like Marc Andre Fleury.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know what they you know what the sports psychologist would have diagnosed it as?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: The case of the dropsies.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: The D the Deonta Johnsonitists.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Jeff Graham made Deontay Johnson look like Jerry Rice because I mean uh you know, but again, he wasn't really that bad.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: He just he had a horrible a couple of seasons.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: It seemed like he dropped passes at like key moments, too.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, boy, it wasn't like first and ten, and it's like a screen pass that would have gone for two yards, you know?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh my god, that would have been like I just remember that one in Houston.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: It would have been an easy touchdown, and it was just like like literally catch the ball.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's your only job.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: You had one job.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, whatever happened to our good friend Jeff Graham?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, don't cry for Jeff Graham because he left for the Steelers for free agency, and the Bears in all their wisdom signed them to a contract, and he actually had a Pro Bowl season, like that 95 season.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: He had 82 catches, I don't know how, and five touchdowns.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: And he actually went on and had a decent career in the NFL.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I think he went on to the Jets, and but like he really like I don't know, I guess he just figured out what was wrong and got it corrected.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, after he retired, he became a uh high school coach in Ohio, and he actually won a state championship at I think it's their third level or whatever.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, but I think uh what uh it was a kind of a scandal when they handed him the trophy, he dropped it.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: So poor Dan Graham.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Which I totally just made up.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: That really did happen.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Again, he he was he wasn't a terrible receiver, he just had something like he just had a mental block that apparently he got over after he left Pittsburgh.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Fun times.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Jeff Graham, I mean he made money and he's won a state championship, so that's more than I can say.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: So um moving on to a different category, these are people that care, those were people that cashed in.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: We're now going on to people that uh left uh that had a rise and fall um for circumstances that were beyond their control.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: So uh I don't know if anybody remembers Chris Brown, and I'm not talking about the singer who dated Rihanna, I'm talking about Chris Brown, the kicker, who is a seventh round.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: He I we actually picked the kicker.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like I know people thought it was kind of crazy when we picked that uh punter this year, but yes, we picked uh actually a field goal kicker in the seventh round, and he can't he was from Nebraska, and um he had a great year.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: His rise was high, uh like I mean, for a kicker, that's a high pick.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: And he had a great year kicking in three years of a stadium, and he converted all but five of his field goals that year.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: But unfortunately, the Steelers decided that it was time to build a new stadium, and um, yes, he moved to Heinz Field, and I think um like nobody foresaw this coming.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like when they moved to Heinz Field, the it was much tougher to kick in, and the turf and the wind was really bad, especially when they first opened, and I don't think anybody really knew how to kick down there.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: And um, he attempted 44 field goals that year, and he only made 30.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: He missed 14 kicks.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: It was ugly.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: And he got a uh 2001, he got a kick block in the AFC championship game that was a return for a touchdown.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I have a couple highlights.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: Here's one from Baltimore where he went one from four.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: Here we'll listen to that.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: 35 yards, McAllister and Woodson from the bottom.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: They missed one again.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: And Bill Power still in the crouch at the 48-yard line.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Cannot believe his eyes.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: So uh Chris Brown like went one for five.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's bad.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's really bad.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: So uh yeah, Chris Brown got a uh kick blocked in the AFC Championship game.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we'll post a link to that if you want to go check it out.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's like kind of another sad moment in the Steeler history.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so whatever happened to uh Mr.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: Chris Brown, um, he left for free agency after the 2001 season, I do believe.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: And uh he he signed with the expansion Houston Texans and he kicked for them for seven years until he lost the kicking battle in training camp, the Neo Rackers in 2010.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what I think really like happened was um a lot of teams went from natur from that old artificial turf to natural grass, and that kind of he was much better like like Gary Anderson was kind of like that too.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: He was better kicking on turf than in grass, and plus Heinz Field was just impossible to kick in, and he just was not up to the task.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: But um he did he did last for a while longer, so I mean, you know, seven plus I mean he had like a 10 or 11 year NFL career, so I guess uh don't cry too much.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Much for uh Chris Brown there.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh moving on to circumstances beyond your control, another person, Amos Zaraway.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, his rise, he was drafted in 1999 in the third round out of uh good old Hill Billy U, uh better known as uh West Virginia.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh he was a backup Jerome Bettis most of his career.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: He played well, especially in 2001 and 2002.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he had a big playoff game against Baltimore in 2001.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Jerome Bettis like had been injured, and they tried to give him a shot, and it hit a nerve, and so like Jerome Bettis's like leg went numb.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: So he couldn't play.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like Zaraway had a great game.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: They beat, like, they ran all over like Ray Lewis and the Ravens.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: So um his fall, he left in 2004 for the Raiders, and he didn't really play much there or in New England the next year.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: He retired in 2005.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean he came in '99 and was really gone by like 2003, 2004.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so whatever happened to Mr.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: Amos Zaraway, he opened a restaurant in New York City.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I don't I do think it's out of business.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: I remember them writing an article about him opening it.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: He was probably it it overall, what happened to him in the NFL?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think he was a victim of the NFL pay scale.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: And that's like after four years, it's cheaper to keep a rookie than it is to have a mediocre veteran, especially like somebody who's just like a backup like running back.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think he played special teams, so it's like you're you're gonna waste a lot of money on a guy that's a backup when you just get a rookie and probably not really lose that.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you might lose a little bit in experience and maybe a little bit of talent, but the money you save towards your cap and keeping your stars makes up for it.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that's just the way of life, I guess, in the NFL.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: So but I mean he did have a four, four or five year, four-year career, so can't complain too much.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Famous, amos.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: That was one of those cases of uh a guy played for a team that you despise and then he comes to he comes to your favorite team, and you're like, okay, I have to recordingly like him now.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: But he did he did he was pretty good.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he was a really good runner, like like that third down running back and backup, like he was just really reliable.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: So um, so uh Tom Donahoe does uh uh moving away from players to front office people.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this is like I put another I put him in circumstances beyond their control, and I'll kind of go with that as we go.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: And this is some this subject's kind of come up a couple times in the podcast already.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: So Tom Donahoe's rise, he was hired as the Steelers GM in 1991, which I yes, before Cower.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: So he was there before Cower.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: He put together many playoff teams in the 1990s, and he brought the Steelers back into contention for most of the decade.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: His uh big move was he traded for Jerome Bettis because he ate no head of lettuce, and uh he had some pretty good drafts early in his career.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: So uh what was uh Tom Donna Donna Who, Donna Ho, I don't know, his downfall.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he he never signed free agents, and he let some talented players go, like Chad Brown and Leon Searcy.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then what really like ended his time in Pittsburgh was he got into a power struggle with head coach Bill Cower, and uh that forced Dan Rooney to make a decision on who to fire, and um well, Mr.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: Rooney decided to uh get rid of uh Tom Donahue.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: They voted uh Tom Donahue off the island, so um that I think you know something that happened was like you know, well what he never really adjusted the NFL's free agency.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: That was the whole I think he had that whole we're not the salvation army con comment and stuff like that.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: And he just didn't realize like how to work free agency, and it seemed like the Steelers were going at that point the route of the Pirates, you know, where they're just gonna be like this poor team that just never signed anybody.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so whatever happened to uh good old Tom Donahoe, he went to Buffalo and he put together a team that it never really contended, even though he got Drew Bledsoe.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: And uh the big the big thing I remember up there was the Bills had a game against the Steelers at the end of the season in 2004 where the Steelers were like 14 and one going into the game, but they had everything wrapped up, first seed.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: It was totally meaningless.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the Steelers played like Tommy Maddox and Brian St.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: Pierre, and like Willie Parker was a third-string running back.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they just played nobody, and like they beat the Bills handily.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: So um Donahue ended up getting fired from the Bills, and he actually ended up with the Eagles as a front office and scout person, and he helped build the Eagles team that won Super Bowl 52.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, like I said, he just never adjusted to free agency in the NFL.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: And um, a fun fact for um Tom Donohoe, he's the uh grandson of legendary Pittsburgh mayor David Lawrence.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: So he had uh that going for him.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: So uh that's a good assessment of Donahue that he just he never did adjust to the to the whole salary cap free agency thing.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and you're right, Steve.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Their strategy was oh, guys contract is up.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he's too expensive to resign, we'll just let him go.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that eventually just caught up with them.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: By the late 90s, they were a bad team because they just lost too many guys doing that.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like they never it was so rare that they ever kept anybody, and then you saw like that completely change with Colbert.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you had guys like Casey Hampton and and Aaron Smith and Troy and James Harrison.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: All those guys got like multiple contracts with the Steelers, but in the Donohoe era, it was like you had your one contract, and then when it was up, it's like, oh well, we can't can't compete with the richer teams.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was you're right, it was very much like they were gonna be the pirates, and that was depressing.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I like Donahoe.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: He was a good GM.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: We had really good teams in the 90s, largely because of him, but he was not capable of sustaining that that system.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, as I went along and I did I did this podcast, I was researching it, like I didn't realize NFL free agency, how much that changed the league, that and the salary cap.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: It really, really kind of changed everything how you ran a team and how you put together a team.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it took a lot of GMs, a lot of years.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: And like maybe he was on to like what Bill Belichick does, like where Belichick always gets rid of people like a year early.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: But like normally Belichick has like a rookie or something waiting in the wings, you know, before he does that.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: And he never well, he kind of tried to do that with Brady.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: And he would imagine that if he would have kept Garoppolo, they never would have won any.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I doubt maybe they win one Super Bowl with Garoppolo, but they definitely don't win what the three more they won after they were gonna get rid of Brady.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: So to be fair to Donahue, I mean, in the 90s, the whole NFL was figuring out the salary cap and free agency.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and and it's funny when you go look at like the signings back then, or even like the uh if you can find like old articles like previewing free agency, like who's the big free agent?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody wanted like the sexy signing, you know.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: It was like the Reggie White or the you know, the the running back or the wide receiver.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas today, first of all, you have you have a lot of guys locked up with franchise tags or locked up with contracts before they even hit free agency.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then even the guys that are out there, the the big free agents are always like the offensive tackle or the you know what I mean, like the less sexy positions.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: And back then, I think you know, your comparison with baseball is interesting because I think with football, it was very much like, oh, that guy hit 48 home runs, go sign him, which works really well in a sport like baseball.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, teams like Washington, remember they used to go out and sign the big free agent every year, and then they would never win.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like that one year they signed Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I forget they signed a running back too that was like veteran, like they just went out, like signed a bunch of veterans, and it just didn't work.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: They all hurt like halfway through this season.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's kind of the end of circumstances beyond their control, and I just figured the circumstances that was beyond his control was free agency.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: So um, so moving on to a category that only has one person in it, so good for him, I guess.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I call this category Hall of Famers that got ran out of town.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: So, and that would be uh one Scotty Bowman.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, his rise was he was a Hall of Fame coach before he got to the Penguins.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: He actually won five Stanley Cups with the Canadians in the 1970s.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: He was hired as director of player personnel by the Penguins and became the coach after Bomb Johnson tragically died.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: And he actually coached the Penguins to a Stanley Cup in 1992.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, so now this guy is like a six-time Stanley Cup winning coach.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I he so his fall, I guess I'll put that in quotation march because I don't really blame him, but this is how he ended up leaving Pittsburgh.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: He turned down the Penn's initial offer, and I guess Howard Baldwin at the time got mad that how dare you refuse my offer of money, and so he just like, nope, you don't get any money.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah, so that so like in like in '93, that was after '93.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then when they shockingly lost the islanders in 1993, everybody like blamed um Scotty Bowman.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: So, which was just like crazy to me, and it still is like he wasn't showing up the practices and blah blah blah.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: And like, yeah, okay, whatever.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me more.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, whatever happened to Scottie Bowman, did he like go and slink off with the six Stanley Cups?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: Heck no! He just went up to Detroit and then he took the Red Wings and he built them into a winner with Steve Eiserman and a couple of those Russian players from the 1980s Do you believe in Miracles team?
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: They were on the wrong side.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: And uh he went on to win three more cups, and then he retired in 2002 after the Red Wings won their third cup with him.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I think Scotty Bowman was quite vindicated.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've heard Madden other people criticize him.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: I don't understand the criticism of him.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think the criticism all belongs with, you know, I I the people I blame are Howard Baldwin and maybe Mario.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: Mario, like that's not uncommon, like for a star to not get along with his coach in hockey, but it's not like Scottie Bowman hadn't coached superstars before, obviously in Montreal and those great teams, and with the Red Wings later.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know what you know, all the issues were, but Howard Waldwin was just a really bad owner.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, he almost killed the franchise, and this is just one of the many ways that he well, at least this is on the ice, besides all those bad contracts he signed off the ice.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um like I said, saying saying Bowman was the problem, the 93 pens is like saying Belichick was the problem with the 95 Browns.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like, really, there were just like bigger issues with that organization than than him.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I you're right, Steven.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: I I'll fully admit I was one of the people in '93 who wanted to run Scottie Bowman out of town because I think we were all just so upset that they had lost that series and somebody had to be blamed for it.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: But that's a that's a very typical like Pittsburgh sports mob kind of mentality.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, core heads, the organization should have, you know, if if it was a stable organization like it is today, or like the Steelers are, uh, or or like the Steelers were then, then you would have had ownership say, no, we know this guy's a good coach, right?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: But they didn't have any kind of stability.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: They had, like you said, uh a person that really didn't know what he was doing.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's unfortunate.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's what happened when we have a movie producer running things.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: So Yep.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so another person, I'm gonna do another category of one.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: This this guy gets his own category.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I titled this category jerks, or just jerk, I guess, since it's just one person.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I don't know if anybody can guess who this is without me telling them, but um, this would be one Tom Barrasso.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: And uh Tom Barrasso's rise was he the Penguins got the penguins got him in a trade with Buffalo, and before he came to the Penguins, he had won a Vesna and a Calder trophy.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he was the goalie of the goalie of note in the Stanley Cup runs of 91 and 92.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, Frank Peter Angelo, you made like a good play to help us out, but you know, the guy that really won the most of the games was Barrasso.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um he won both cup clinching games those two years.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not sure why he was always aloof with the media, but and I don't I don't remember was he rude to the fans, Tim?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember him.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: Was it just media?
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: That was before the day of cell phone, that was before the days of like cell phone video and stuff.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's like all you have to go on is you know, my my uncle's neighbor once saw Tom at uh Giant Eagle.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so yeah, who knows?
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so his fall, uh uh he got hurt for two years from 95 to 97, and then I mean he played for a couple more years before the penguins traded him to 2000 to the Ottawa Center.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, whatever happened to him, uh he won a silver medal in the 2002 Olympics in Salt Lake City, I think as a player, and then um he's now a coach in the IHL at HC Varaces, and that's some team in Italy, so I guess it's the International Hockey League.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: So Tom Barrasso is having fun in Italy, drinking wine and coaching hockey, I guess.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: The the he you know uh you were talking about whether or not he was a jerk to the fans.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: I I know he was not a good teammate, and I I think the the the story when he when he his last moments in Pittsburgh, when he got traded to Ottawa, that was a a trade deadline deal.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: And Craig Patrick almost didn't make the deal because he was afraid to tell him.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because Barrasso had a no-movement class.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like Barrasso would have had to agree to it.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: He could have waived the trade.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: And Patrick was worried that it was going to tank their whole season because Barrasso is gonna be like, no, I'm not getting traded.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you want to trade me?
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: Fine.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm just gonna, you know, sit on my hands and be a jerk the rest of the season just to make you, just to spite you for daring to trade me.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so Craig Patrick was literally almost didn't make the trade only because he was afraid to tell him.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that just says everything that you need to know about Tom Barrasso.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Tom Barrasso, he got his own category on our podcast.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: So Stanley Cup goal winning and uh apparently award-winning jerk.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: So good for you.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um a flash in the pan.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, these are people that had like one shining moment, you know.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: The best I got.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't remember if anybody remembered this guy, but I remember this guy.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: He was a pitcher named Jim Gott.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, who was Jim Gott and what was his rise?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: He was a relief pitcher, picked off waiver, picked off of waivers after he was with the San Francisco Giants, and that was in 1987.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: But then the uh next I in that season in 87 he only had 13 saves, and then 1988 he comes to Pittsburgh and he has like this all-world pro level year.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: He he had like he broke Kent DeCalvey's pirate save record with 34 saves, and I remember I really liked him as a kid, Jim Gott.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember his pitch or anything, but I sure liked him.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: I he was he had like this amazing 34 save.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: It was just it was pretty cool.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: So in 1989, our hopes were high, and we opened the game in Montreal, and I remember this game.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: He pitched literally the two-thirds of an inning.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: I remember this, and he walked in the winning run.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: He literally couldn't throw a strike, and it was the season opener, and he didn't pitch the rest of the season.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think uh his arm actually was hurt, so he probably hurt his arm pitching, and that was kind of the reason why he couldn't throw a strike, and he didn't pitch the rest of 1989.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so whatever happened to uh Mr.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: Jim Gott, after all that, he went on to have a career as a setup man.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: He pitched mostly for the Dodgers.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: He did get three saves with the Pirates in 1995 at the end of his career, I guess.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he's coached for a bunch of teams and he did the Dodgers pregame for a while.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I just I don't know, just like one of those players you liked when you were growing up.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: And he literally, when I look back, like, well, he really only had that 1988.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: That was really the only really, really good year.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: He had a good couple good, like, like solid pro years, but just as a setup man, not as a closer.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: Do you remember Jim Glott at all, Tim?
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, oh yeah.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh I and you're right, it's surprising that it was just that one season because when I was a kid, he was our best pitcher.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he was the guy that came in that if we were in the lead, it was over because Jim Gott was gonna come in and and save the day.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you're right.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: He was he was one of my favorite players too.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: He had that like mullet haircut.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he he uh yeah, I I was a big Jim Gott fan, but but it's funny when you're a kid, you think of him as being you know more dominant for longer than that one season.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a very quick rising fall for Jim God.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he did have a career before and after that, but he never really had the success, at least as far as I when I looked at the stats that I could tell, you know.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, just as a setup man, it's like I don't know.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, setup men are kind of like eh, I don't know, they're a dive a dozen.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: So sticking with Flash in the Pan, uh, and pirate pitchers that were flash in the pan, I remember, I know you'll remember this guy, Randy Tomlin.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: He was drafted by the Pirates in the 18th round of the 1990 baseball draft out of Liberty University.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: I did not know Liberty University had like this amazing sports athletics department, like Sam Ratigliado, Randy Tomlin, Eric Green?
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: What the heck?
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I didn't think Jerry Falwell like was running like quite the uh you know the football factory and baseball factory that he was, but back uh I mean I guess they still are.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: They still like that kid supposed to come out in the draft, so uh good for them.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um so like I said, he was drafted in 1990.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: I remember this game in 1990 in his first MLB game.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: He pitched a one-run complete game victory of the Phillies.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um 91 was his best year.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: He had a 2.98 ERA, and he held the Braves the two runs and six innings in a critical game four against the Braves of the NLCS.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think he did get a no decision in that game, but um, you know, he he pitched well.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: And um 92 his ERA went up to 3.41.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: And he did he struggled in the NLCS versus the Braves that fall.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um by 94, he had hurt his elbow.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: And uh he tried to get him, I don't know if they didn't, well they should have had Tommy John, but he did something to his elbow and they couldn't really they couldn't really fix it.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: So he went to the minors and he was out of baseball after that.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_02: And um he went back to Liberty University and became a pitching coach, and um he's also coached in the minor leagues.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: So uh Randy Tom then uh personal story, I I went to where I went to church, he always sat in the same pew as me on Sunday when the I guess when the Pirates didn't have a game or he wasn't well I mean it was like nine o'clock in the morning and went to church on the north side, so it wasn't like you know, he could have just ran over to the game real quick if he had to.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: He had his uniform on.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: After this, I got a start.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was him and Roger McDowell used to like you know, the second spitter on the gravelly road, so which is like pirate pitchers for a hundred, Alex.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: But um Randy Tomlin was like you said, uh he was a he was a good pitcher for a while, and you know, it really faded out quickly too.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: But uh I think we covered him.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: We did a B-team episode where we talked about some of our you know favorite kind of underrated guys that that deserve more credit than they get, and he's definitely one of those guys.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: So uh sticking with Flash in the Pan, and I guess this is more of like Flash in the Pan for the Pirates.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: And this was one of my favorite pitchers, like with the Pirates, like besides Jim Gott.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I remember liking this guy a lot.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_02: So um, Neil Heaton.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: Does anybody do you remember Neil Heaton at all?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he had a really good like half a season, didn't he?
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not kidding.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like he was like an all-star.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, well, he his rise, he came to the Pirates from the Expos in 1990.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: And he'd been in the league a while by then.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: He was a left-handed, like, American league pitcher.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_02: And uh he had a 10 2 record at the all-star break.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then he actually that's his only all star game.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: He went to the all-star game, but he didn't get the pitch because he was going to pitch for the National League.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: He was the only if.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: The score would have been tied, but like Dennis Eckersley like pitched a perfect ninth and the AL won the game.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: So and uh so his his fall, like I found a pretty good article with Bob Smizick about he had asked Jim Leland about his uh you know success.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: In June of 1990, Neil Heaton was 10 and 2 for the Pirates and headed the All-Star game.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: I intended to write a story about Heaton and sat down to Leland and the Pirates dug out to get his take.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: I posed a question that shed a favorable light on Heaton, and Leland answer has stuck with me to this day.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: Don't get too excited about Neil Heaton.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: Now, why weren't we getting too excited about him?
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that brings us to the fall.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: Over, like you said, half the season.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: Over the rest of that year, Heaton was two and six.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, I mean, they he moved to the bullpen for a while, and he was uh he like had like a streak of like like 30 innings, and then I remember who's the guy from Eric Davis.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: Did he play for Cincinnati?
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think he hit a ball that might have landed in Kentucky off of him.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, oh my gosh, that was in Riverfront, he just crushed it.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: And um, he finished 12-9 for that magical season, and the Pirates traded him for, and I think he was just in our one of our la recent podcasts, good old Kirk Gibson.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: They chaired him the Royals for Kirk Gibson.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: So uh whatever happened to Neil Heaton, he bounced around in the majors for two years after that.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: Then he retired, and he had a 12-year career.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, he was mainly an American league pitcher for Cleveland, and he just really you know had like half a good year with the Pirates, but it was fun while it lasted, right?
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: It was.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm going with this guy flashing a pan.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you'll maybe disagree with me.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um Barry Foster, uh, Barry Bananas Foster, uh his rise, he was a fifth-round pick in the night in 1990 by the Steelers.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, of course, he famously watched a kickoff go over his head and get recovered by the 49ers.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so he wouldn't get out of the doghouse until 1992 when Bill Cower took over.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then he had his best season rushing, and I it's still a Steelers single season record of 16, 1,690 yards.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's still the most yards in a season.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard to believe with Bettis having all those great years and everything that that still stands to this day.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: So he also averaged 4.3 yards per carry and 11 touchdowns, which boy, he must have just got a ton of carries at 4.3 yards per carry to get 1,600 yards.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's a lot of work.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he then he he kind of had an injury-prone 93 and 94 season.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: He only rushed it first rushed for 711 yards and 811 yards.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, can you his fall, can you guess what his last play ever with the Steelers were?
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: How about I'll I'll play it for us here?
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: This is it.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it was Dennis Gibson on the coverage And the San Diego Chargers flooded the field.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: So uh yeah, that was the last play of Barry Foster's career.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: And um famously, I guess uh what's her uh Bill Cower's one daughter said that Neil should have thrown to Eric Green.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um he got traded to Carolina because of his expensive contract and the arrival of Bam Morris and Eric Pegrim from Atlanta.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: He never played for Carolina, he was cut because he was out of shape, and he signed later that season with the Bengals for like a million a game.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: I remember this, but then he just like he like did two practices like, see ya on the I don't want to play no more.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: So whatever happened to him, um he he said his body was beat up to to play anymore, and he had enough money to retire.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he's now a high school coach and assistant principal in Texas.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: So um would you call him a paycheck player, Tim?
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_02: So Barry Bananas was definitely a paycheck player.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: Seemed like they had a few of those on that team, huh?
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: They did.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, again, him and Eric Green were very they were kind of like the Lev Bell Antonio Brown of that era.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: Makes sense.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so moving on to a category that's kind of some of these are sad stories, these these ones.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, self-destructive behavior.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_02: And the first person is maybe somebody that you might have forgotten about.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_02: He really wasn't that big of a, but he would definitely had some self-destructiveness here.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, Richard Huntley.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_02: He was a backup uh running back in the Steelers like the late 90s.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_02: He had a decent career over three years as a backup to Jerome Bettis.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: He had some big runs against Baltimore.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: And uh Richard Huntley's big fall, and I don't remember if anybody remembers this, he got in like a huge locker room fight with Earl Holmes in a spring practice.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: And like that's not uncommon to like get in a fight in practice, but it literally spilled into the locker room, and him and Earl Holmes were throw like throwing chairs at each other and like literally fighting in the in the locker room.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: So uh whatever happened to uh Mr.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: Richard Huntley?
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he went to Carolina for a year and then I don't know, then oblivion.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh if you know where he is, uh let him know.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_02: So uh trivia question Do you know who scored the last touchdown in three-year stadium history, Tim?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm guessing it was Richard Huntley.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: It was Richard Huntley, yay.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_02: So he's got that.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_02: Wherever he, whatever rock he's hiding under, he's still got that going for him.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: So you definitely remember Richard Huntley, right?
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I he he was, you know, that was and it was funny because that was when uh that like 99, 2000 kind of era, a lot of people thought Bettis was finished at that point.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: And Huntley looked like he was ready to sort of take over that role.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, you know, he he didn't, and then Bettis kind of had a resurgence.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: So uh yeah.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so the next self-destructive, and this is a very sad story, and I don't know if we've ever covered this, and it is kind of a sad one, and that's Joe Gillam.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Jefferson Street Joe, as they call him.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he was the 11th round pick, 11 rounds.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: Boy, that it's hard to believe they even had that many rounds way back in the 70s out of Tennessee State in 1972.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_02: He won the starting job over Terry Bradshaw and Terry Hanratdy.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm sure Terry Hanratdy really had a chance.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_02: And he actually started the first six games of the 1974 season, including a blowout over the Baltimore Colts 30 to nothing.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, if you look, there's a sports illustrated cover with him on it, because like it was so controversial because you know he was obviously African American, and that was like kind of a novelty back in 1974.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_02: So everybody's like, whoa, what are the Steelers doing?
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_02: So um he actually got benched later that season, and um the the common like thinking is that he just threw the ball too much for Chuck Knoll's liking, and like Noel felt that him throwing the ball so much had led to a tie against the Denver Broncos.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: So um, what happened to him?
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_02: He took the benching really hard and he got into drugs, and he he ended up out of football, pro football by 1976.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: So um, whatever happened to uh good old Jefferson treat Joe, um he lived under a bridge for a while in the 70s, and then he seemed to kind of get it back together a little bit, and he was so he he he went and played for like a bunch of like USFL and semi-pro teams, and then at the end, he he was actually sober for three years.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember him I remember seeing him at the last game at Three River Stadium in 2000.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: I thought he looked very like healthy.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_02: I remember seeing him in an alumni game, like they had the used to have a flag alumni game for the Steelers, and like he threw like a like a 60 or 70 yard pass and he had to be like 40 years old.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean the guy was the guy was good.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean there might be an alternate universe somewhere where he's like has like you know four Super Bowl tropes and Terry Bradshaw seeking country music somewhere.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I I don't know.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, um for uh for all of us, he he relapsed and he died on Christmas Day in 2000.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_02: So um a sad story and a sad ending.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of what could have been maybe some missed missed opportunities for uh Joe Gillam there.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: You're right um about him being at the last game in Three River Stadium.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: That was that was in December of 2000, and then it was like a week later he was he was gone.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and and like you said, he probably looked better then than he had in years it looked at it supposedly he was doing well and everything.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, just a very sad story.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, he he really could have been he could have been an all-time great quarterback because he was on that he was the starter on the 74 team that won the Super Bowl for for almost half the season.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think there was a story he sold his Super Bowl rings for drugs and stuff.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was what a that's nasty stuff, that that that addiction, it's it's tough to kick and gets the better of some of us, unfortunately.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um moving on to uh people that threw it all away, Donatus Votkis.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we covered him in a podcast a while ago.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he was a three-point shooter from Lithuania, a Lithuanian three-point shooter.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: You don't hear that all a lot.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he was a key part of the Ben Halland era uh pit basketball teams when they rose up and they won a big East Championship.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um he's still 31st on Pit Basketball's all-time scoring list, and he was just a very good, like low post three-point shooter.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_02: So uh what happened to Mr.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_02: Zavatkis?
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, during an NCAA tournament against Marquette, he got mad at Ben Hallen for taking him out of the game and he took off his shoes.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: So uh unfortunately Ben Hallen had to bench him after that, and uh Pitt lost in the sweet 16 because of Dwayne Wade.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it might have helped having a guy that can shoot three pointers at the end of that game, but well, that's neither here nor there.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_02: So whatever happened to good old Donata Sabodkis, he went overseas and played pro basketball for many years, and I don't see much.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_02: I guess he's enjoying retirement in Lithuania.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_02: So he's he's he's like hanging out with uh who was it?
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh who was the uh Eric Green or who's the other one that went to oblivion?
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_02: Richard Huntley.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: Him and Richard Huntley are hanging out somewhere.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_02: So um another guy that threw it all away, um, that would be Dale Berra.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_02: And uh Dale Barra had a tough one.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_02: He was the son of a Hall of Famer named Yogi Berra.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_02: And Yogi was the 20th overall pick of the Pirates in 1975.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Dale was the 20th pick of the Pirates in 1975.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_02: He was a member of the 1979 World Series Pirates team.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_02: He actually hit 223 and had two home 10 home runs and 63 RBIs in 1982.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_02: That was probably his best year.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he got traded to the Mets in 1984 because his father was managing the Mets at the time.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_02: Or I don't know.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know even if the Pirates got back.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they got Mr.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_02: Met back or something.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh bear Barra had like a huge base running gaffe at the Mets, much like he did.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_02: He had a lot of errors with the Pirates.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: I remember my dad used to call him Bobble the Ball Bear.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh then he had to come back to uh to Pittsburgh for the 1985 drug trials where he admitted that he did cocaine in the clubhouse.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it was not like a good time for Mr.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: Dale Barra.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_02: So, whatever happened to Dale Barra after all that, well, he struggled with substance abuse and he got arrested for cocaine possession in 1989.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_02: But then I think he's cleaned this stuff, he's still alive, he runs a construction company and is in charge of an organization that controls use of his father's likeness.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_02: So um I think as uh from all accounts, I mean I didn't really look too deep into it, but I think Dale Barra is uh kind of found his uh found his way there and uh living living life to the fullest, I imagine.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we did that episode about the drug trials, and I I think I remember that we we learned that his family did like an intervention or something.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it actually, you know, made an impact on him, and and he's supposedly been clean ever since then.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I mean, one example of a person that maybe didn't you know quite come clean, another that did.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it's good good for Dale Barra.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um moving on to a more fun category, uh never never really was.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_02: And and I don't know if any and I know Tim's heard of this guy, and maybe not a lot of people have, but Tim Worley.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_02: You ever heard does anybody remember Tim Worley?
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he was drafted by the Steelers in 1989, and he had an okay rookie year with 770 yards rushing, and uh that was it.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_02: His fall, he was just straight awful for the rest of the time.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_02: He had a lot of fumbles.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_02: I remember people used to call him whoops Worley.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, and there was that funny story by Merrill Hodge where like Worley kept uh, I guess Bubby Brister like had to say like you know, the play like five times because Worley kept forgiving it or missing it.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_02: And like they got up to the line of scrimmage and Worley was like, What's the snap count?
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_02: And like Brister literally like turns around and yells at the top of his lungs, on two! Like the whole like defense and everybody could hurt it.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_02: So uh fun times with uh Tim Whirley.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, whatever happened to him, um, he runs uh some sort of motivational speaking company with the radio station K-Love speaking to uh school assemblies.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_02: I he's a big star at the University of Georgia.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_02: I guess he had a big game in college against Florida, so he's like very more famous for what he did in college than what he ever did in the pros.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it was unfortunate that he did not have a good pro career, and he was I I believe to this day he's still the high the highest Steeler draft pick since Terry Bradshaw.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_00: He was drafted seventh overall.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow, yeah.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the Steelers have now Bradshaw was drafted first, but the Steelers have not drafted that high since Terry Bradshaw.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: He was the highest in all that time, number seven.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that was it wasn't just that he was a first-round pick, it was that he was number seven overall.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's a major bust.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: In a draft that produced the guys before him, Troy Inkman, Barry Sanders, Deion Sanders, and and Derek Thomas.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like right before him.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that that just that really hurt.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh well, good old Whoops Whirley.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_02: But it seems like he's doing okay.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_02: So good for him.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_02: He's had a better retirement than some of the other people on this list.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, next up is uh a guy who I know we all love to make fun of back in the day, uh Jermaine Stevens.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh his rise, and it's not much of a rise for Jermaine Stevens.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's even maybe I would say he might even be worse than Worley.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_02: He was a first-round draft pick in 1996 out of NC 18T, but I think he was a late-round pick.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_02: He was like a 20th pick or something.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_02: He wasn't seventh, yeah.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_02: He started he did start 10 games that year, and uh, and that was it.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's the highlight of Jermaine Stevens' career.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, his fall was he was a he was just a complete bust.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_02: He showed out out of shape.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_02: He showed up out of shape.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_02: He really didn't have much of a network ethic either or desire to make it to the NFL.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I have like uh some uh things from his PG PG article.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um the Steelers last night released their first round draft choice from 1996, hours after he quit from exhausting during a set of 40-yard dashes.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_02: He was so out of shape that he nearly collapsed on the 11th of 14 scheduled 40-yard runs.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_02: He was the only player who failed to complete them in an individual performance.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_02: One scout called embarrassing.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah, Bill Coward just said I had no choice but to release uh release him.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_02: He just was that bad.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he never really did much of anything except for like pass out up at La Trobe, and people were like hosing him down with like water and stuff.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, why you have an offensive lineman running 40-yard dashes is beyond me, but hey, whatever.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, Jermaine was that was the year after they were in the Super Bowl.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was a pretty low pick.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_00: And they thought they could draft him and sort of like he could be a project, like he wouldn't have to come in and and you know dominate right away.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_00: He was like this big he had this big frame, he went to a small school, so they you know he was kind of raw and and they were gonna have to work with him a little bit, but it it was a terrible experiment.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_02: Especially for the first round, it seems like you should have maybe don't ever reach, they say don't ever reach, and especially like in the first round.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, whatever happened to Jermaine Stevens, he lives in Maryland, and uh unfortunately his son died from COVID while playing football at Cal U in 2020.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_02: So and I I remember that.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was that was pretty sad that he lost his son.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's gotta be.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_00: I can't imagine.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so moving on, uh the our final category of this podcast will be inexplicably lost their fastball.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_02: So uh guys that were really good, and all of a sudden were like, hey, wait a minute, what happened to you?
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_02: So these are more than flash in the pan guys.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think they had like two or three really good seasons, and for just whatever reason, it's like, whoa, what happened to you?
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_02: So uh the first up would be one Matthew Murray.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_02: And uh the rise was he was a third-round pick of the Penguins in 2012, and he would play in the playoffs in 2016, and he actually took the pens to a cup that year, and he was only 21 years old when that all happened.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean he was so good, like he they started him over Fleur.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like when Flurry got healthy, like I can't remember, did they start Flurry a game or two that playoffs?
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even I don't I don't think Fleur ever came back once Murray got in there, and um he followed that up next year with another great performance in the playoffs, and uh they won another cup with him.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_02: So after two Stanley Cups, and you know, he looked like he was on his way, looked like we had another like franchise goalie for the next 10 to 15 years.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_02: So, what happened to Mr.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_02: Murray?
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_02: His play in same percentage went way down for 2019-2020.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_02: It also seemed like I think in that San Jose final, like people started to figure out that his glove hand was kind of weak, and it seemed like everybody started shooting at his glove hand, and it seemed to like become a thing.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so teams were like really catching on.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_02: So finally in 2020, after that the penguins trade him to the Ottawa Senators.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_02: So um, whatever happened to Matt Murray, he's still with the Ottawa Centers, and I think he went winless in his first season with them.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, he I think I don't think that's the end of him.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe he'll, you know, because sometimes Glow goal, and he's so young.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like I could see him turning it around and having like at least another good run at him, or you know, a couple more good years.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_02: But as for right now, he's definitely uh lost his uh fastball or his uh glove hand, I guess.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_00: That might be one of the greatest mysteries in the history of sports.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_00: Just like you said, he was he was on his way to being like you said, like the next 15 years, he was gonna be the guy, and and then it just ended like that.
• 1:04:44
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's definitely weird.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_02: I wonder if there wasn't a salary cap if they would have stuck with him longer.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um sticking uh with the uh rise and with the uh what is this?
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_02: This is uh lost or fastball.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_02: It was Kendro Bell, and I remember this guy.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like he was drafted by the Steelers in the second round in 2001.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_02: The Steelers actually traded up 12 spots to get him.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_02: And uh what in his rookie year he leveled Jerome Bettis in a goal line drill that was in practice.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he had a great rookie year.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_02: He actually won NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_02: He got played, he played hurt against Cleveland.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_02: He really didn't have that great of a game against Cleveland, and uh, but he but he did play and he did try.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um he he played really well that first year, and then he started to get hurt, and he really he really was never that great against the pass.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_02: He was very good at like against the run and hitting people, but like when it came to like stopping the pass, that was kind of like his weakest.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_02: So his fall was he he got hurt and he missed all of the 2005 Steelers, and they had signed James Farrier and drafted Larry Foote.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_02: So not being able to cover the pass and getting hurt, he was cut before the 2005.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_02: He didn't make the Super Bowl team.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he did play three seasons for Kansas City, but he just wasn't that much of a factor.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_02: His body was pretty much done.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, there's an article I read.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_02: He talked about barely being able to play at that point, and he was completely out of the NFL by age 29.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_02: So um, I mean, whatever whatever happened to Kendra O'Bell, um, there's a pretty cool story in the post that I found.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we can post that to our uh webpage.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_02: And uh he lives in Mapleton, Georgia with his wife and four sons, and he still talks very positively in that article about his uh four four so years with the Steelers.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_02: So they he said that was his best best years as uh as a pro football player.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_00: Thing I'll always remember about Kendro Bell is I wanted to buy a Steeler jersey in 2001, and I was like, okay, these things aren't aren't cheap.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna buy one of a guy that's gonna be here for a long time.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so I picked Kendro Bell and that he was gone after like two seasons, and I really regretted buying that jersey.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do you still have the Kendro Bell?
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_00: I I do because I actually wore it um for every game during that 2005 Super Bowl run, every playoff game.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_00: I uh and I I had worn it for the Cincinnati game for some reason, then I just decided okay, that's the only reason they won, because I wore that jersey.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I actually wore that jersey to the Super Bowl in Detroit.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_00: People are like Kendro Bell.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I could always he was 97, so I could always like you know, tape Cam Hayward's name over or something.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_00: Nice, nice be one of those people.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um speaking of people who uh lost their fastball, uh Kevin Stevens.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um his rise, he played a key role in the Penguins Cup teams from 91 to 92.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_02: He had uh in 91, he had 40 goals and 86 points.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_02: And in 92, he had 54 goals and 123 points.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's insane.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_02: He he was key on the line with Mario.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_02: He scored uh three goals in a period in the conference finals against Boston.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think he infamously said they were down two games than nine, and he was like, Yep, we're gonna come back and win this series.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_02: And the Penguins said that was like a big thing.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he's a great playoff performer, and he's probably one of the best American hockey players of all time.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um so whatever kind of happened to Kevin Stevens, it was quick for him.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_02: He checked that Rich Pelon in that infamous series against the Islanders, and like he knocked himself out.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember him like laying on the ice, like having it, like it looked like a seizure.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_02: He was like convulsing, and like he messed up his face so bad they had to rebuild his face with like a hundred stitches after that.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in 95, the penguins uh traded him to Boston, and he never quite really did have the success as he did with the Penguins.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, whatever happened to uh Mr.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_02: Kevin Stevens?
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he got caught doing drugs in an East St.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_02: Louis hotel.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh he went to rehab.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_02: He's been on TV for some show in Canada called Shattered.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_02: It was like part of his whole community service plea for dealing oxycotton.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_02: And he's just like had a really rough life.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think he worked for the Penguins for a while and he just bounced around and like kind of got into drugs and not not not not not been a good uh like you know, rough, rough part of his uh life after hockey.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that that hit against the islanders really altered the course of his life and career.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_00: So why why we have a statue of Ricky P lon in front of the arena right now is beyond my beyond my hard comprehension, but we do.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_00: We have a statue of Richie P.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_00: P lon.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_00: So or he could have just been in the picture when Mario was like going past him.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's a statue of the man, regardless.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's there.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um well, the next guy doesn't have a statue, but he's a beloved member of the Pittsburgh Sports Landscape, and that would be Steve Blass, and that's who we're gonna finish up to because this is really when I started this podcast, this is really who I thought of was Steve Blas.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_02: And he was he was with the Pirates, he was a pitcher from 1966 to 1974.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_02: He won a hundred games over his career in 1971 in the seventh game of the World Series.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_02: He well, he won that basically, and he picks another complete game in game three, and uh like him and Clementi basically won game seven, like none of like not to like criticize the rest of the pirates, but they really didn't do much of anything else.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was really like you know, Steve Blast, Clementi hit a home run and I think scored another run, and like Steve Blast like got the last out, and the Orioles had a guy on third on that for that last out.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't you know, it wasn't smooth, but you know, hey, Steve Blast got it done.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean the pitch I think I don't know, I don't think that's the last complete game in World Series history, but it's there aren't a lot of them.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_02: So um his fall, um from 1971, his ERA was 2.81.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_02: Then 72, it was 2.49, and then in 1973, can you guess what his ERA was, Tim?
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_02: That would be uh higher.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exponentially 9.85.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he couldn't throw a sh he couldn't throw a strike.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_02: And it like by 1974, he was out of baseball, which is just crazy.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize it was that fast after 71.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know he was a big hero in 71.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize his career turned that quickly.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like he literally had like 72.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well, no, that was uh I guess that would have been after the World Series, and then like he had one more okay season, and then after that, it was loop.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_02: That was it, man.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_02: He couldn't throw a strike, and now there's actually a syndrome named after him, the Steve Blass syndrome.
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_02: There's a I have an art a link to an article on The New Yorker about that, you know, about him.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's like an interview with him in like the late 70s about like his career and stuff and how things turned out.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of interesting to read.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um I remember there's a reference in uh house, like with to to Omar Epps of all people, who like you know, who he says, oh, what are you, Steve Blass?
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_02: I guess because Omar Epps like started losing his thing.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, whatever happened to uh good old Steve Blass.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, after baseball, he was a school class ring salesman for a couple years, and then in 1983, he got a job with the pirates calling games, and he stayed on with the pirates for 30 years, became like you know, I just this beloved member of the Pittsburgh Pirates.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, why he lost his ability to throw strikes, uh, that's been debated for years.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_02: Some people said maybe Clementi's death, although Blast denies that that's a thing.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_02: Was there was he injured in some way?
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_02: But like, yeah, I mean he was close friends with Roberto Clemeny, and Clementi, of course, died after 72, and that's kind of coincides with when Blast fell apart.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I I don't know.
• 1:13:24
  SPEAKER_02: Any I mean I never saw the man pitch live, so I I wouldn't I I couldn't even venture a guess on why that worked out, but Steve Blast seemed to have a pretty positive attitude.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_02: He said, I had 11 good years in the pros, and I won a World Series, and you know, hey.
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, again, like we said earlier, today you you'd have like a sports psychologist and somebody, you know, trying to figure out what's going on, and and maybe back then it was just, you know, they just there was no way to really figure it out.
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, but then you know, we just talked about Matt Murray, and you know, so it can absolutely happen today too.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's really no you can you can have all the fancy sports psychology and everything, but if you can't do it, you can't do it.
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_00: So who knows?
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, even in that New Yorker article, I remember reading, like they asked Bill Verden, or I think he was one of the coaches on this the that that World Series team.
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_02: They were like, Oh, yeah, what about Steve Blass?
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, I don't know where he is.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like, even like people that like coached him and stuff didn't know what happened to Steve Blass.
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know.
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, when you lose it, you lose it, I guess.
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it sucks for uh Steve Blast was you know, but you know, he had a great second act with uh that that announcing the pirates, and he was always fun to listen to with the pirates play by play.
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, thank I hope thank you for joining us.
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you enjoyed our uh podcast on this.
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, please uh keep spreading the word of mouth and uh gaining followers.
• 1:14:57
  SPEAKER_02: Check us out on Twitter or on the uh web.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_02: But thank you for listening and uh we appreciate all the uh listen and uh make sure you like us and all that good stuff.
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_02: All right, bye.