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11 - Charles Sumner, The Scholar in Politics by Archibald Grimké · Charles Sumner, The Scholar in Politics

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  Speaker 1: Chapter ten of Charles Sumner, The Scholar in Politics by
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  Speaker 1: Archibald Grimkey. This LibriVox recording is in the public domain.
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  Speaker 1: Struggling for the floor in the Senate and in the
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  Speaker 1: House also, every movement of the Friends of Freedom was
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  Speaker 1: met and opposed by the intolerant spirit and obstructive tactics
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  Speaker 1: of the friends of slavery. It was exceedingly difficult to
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  Speaker 1: obtain the floor in either branch of Congress for the
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  Speaker 1: introduction of matter in the interests of liberty, while in
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  Speaker 1: all measures pertaining to slavery it was quite the reverse.
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  Speaker 1: Slavery had the right of way every day and every
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  Speaker 1: hour during the continuance of the sessions of the two
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  Speaker 1: branches of the National Legislature, and freedom had to stand
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  Speaker 1: aside or get ground under the juggernaut wheels of its
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  Speaker 1: arrogant adversary. Here is a senatorial instance of us this
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  Speaker 1: sort of thing included by mister Sumner in the addition
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  Speaker 1: of his works, and reproduced by him from the Congressional Globe.
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  Speaker 1: The day is July thirty one, eighteen fifty four. In
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  Speaker 1: the occasion the report of the Committee on Pensions, through
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  Speaker 1: mister Seward, of a bill for the relief of the
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  Speaker 1: aged widow of a soldier of the War of eighteen
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  Speaker 1: twelve who had died of wounds received therein the moment
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  Speaker 1: the measure was introduced as Southern Senator moved an amendment
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  Speaker 1: granting a pension to the widow of the man who
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  Speaker 1: was killed in the attempted rescue of Anthony Burns from
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  Speaker 1: the Court House in Boston on the evening of the
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  Speaker 1: twenty sixth of the previous May. As the reader will
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  Speaker 1: doubtless recall, being clearly in the interest of slavery, and
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  Speaker 1: notwithstanding objections thereto, the amendment was adopted. Thereupon, mister Sumner
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  Speaker 1: moved an amendment repealing the Fugitive Slave Act, which was
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  Speaker 1: of course promptly ruled out of order as not germane
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  Speaker 1: to the bill under consideration. The Bill for the Relief
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  Speaker 1: of the Widow of a Hero of the War of
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  Speaker 1: eighteen twelve, together with the Amendment for the Relief of
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  Speaker 1: the widow of a volunteer harling in the execution of
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  Speaker 1: the Fugitive Slave Law, were put upon their passage. At
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  Speaker 1: this stage of the business, mister Sumner springs to his
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  Speaker 1: feet when ensues the following struggle between him, aided by
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  Speaker 1: friends and the slave power. Mister Sumner, in pursuance of notice,
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  Speaker 1: I now ask leave to introduce a bill, mister Stewart
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  Speaker 1: of Michigan. I object to it and move to take
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  Speaker 1: up the River and Harbor Bill. The presiding officer mister
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  Speaker 1: Cooper of Pennsylvania. The other bill is not disposed of
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  Speaker 1: the third reading of a bill for the Relief of
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  Speaker 1: Betsy Nash. The bill was then read a third time
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  Speaker 1: and passed. Mister Sumner, in pursuance of notice, I asked
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  Speaker 1: leave to introduce a bill, which I now send to
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  Speaker 1: the table. Mister Stewart, is that in order, mister Sumner,
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  Speaker 1: why not mister Benjamin of Louisiana. There is appending motion
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  Speaker 1: of the Senator from Michigan to take up the River
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  Speaker 1: and Harbor Bill. The presiding officer that motion was not
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  Speaker 1: entertained because the Senator from Massachusetts had and has the floor.
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  Speaker 1: Mister Stewart, I make the motion now the presiding officer.
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  Speaker 1: The chair thinks it is in order to give the notice.
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  Speaker 1: Mister Sumner. Notice has been given, and I now, in
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  Speaker 1: pursuance of notice, introduce the bill. The question is on
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  Speaker 1: its first reading the presiding officer the first reading of
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  Speaker 1: a bill, mister Norris of New Hampshire, I rise to
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  Speaker 1: a question of order, mister Sumner. I believe that I
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  Speaker 1: have the floor, mister Norris, but I rise to a
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  Speaker 1: question of order. I submit that that is not the question.
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  Speaker 1: The Senator from Massachusetts has given notice that he would
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  Speaker 1: ask leave to introduce a bill. He now asks that leave.
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  Speaker 1: If there is objection, the question must be decided by
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  Speaker 1: the Senate whether he shall have leave or not. Objection
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  Speaker 1: is made and the bill cannot be read. Mister Sumner
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  Speaker 1: very well. The first question then is on granting leave,
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  Speaker 1: and the title of the bill will be read. The
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  Speaker 1: presiding Officer to the Secretary. Read the title. The secretary
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  Speaker 1: read it as follows, a bill to repeal the Act
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  Speaker 1: of Congress approved September eighteenth, eighteen fifty for the surrender
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  Speaker 1: of Fugitives from Service or labor deresiding Officer. The question
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  Speaker 1: is on granting leave to introduce the bill, mister Sumner,
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  Speaker 1: and I have the floor, the presiding officer, the Senator
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  Speaker 1: for Massachusetts is entitled to the floor. Mister Sumner, I
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  Speaker 1: shall not occupy much time, nor shall I debate the bill.
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  Speaker 1: Some time ago, mister President, after the presentation of the
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  Speaker 1: memorial from Boston, signed by twenty nine hundred citizens without
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  Speaker 1: distinction of party, I gave notice that I should, at
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  Speaker 1: a day thereafter ask leave to introduce a bill for
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  Speaker 1: the repeal of the Fugitive Slave Act. Desirous, however, not
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  Speaker 1: to proceed prematurely. I awaited the action of the Committee
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  Speaker 1: on the Judiciary, to which the memorial and others of
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  Speaker 1: a similar character were referred at length. An adverse report
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  Speaker 1: was made and accepted by the Senate. From the time
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  Speaker 1: of that report down to this moment, I sought an
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  Speaker 1: opportunity to introduce this bill. Now at last, I have
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  Speaker 1: it at a former session, Sir, in introducing a similar proposition,
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  Speaker 1: I considered it at length in an argument which I
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  Speaker 1: fearlessly assert, mister Gwinn of California, I rise to a
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  Speaker 1: point of order. Has the Senator right to debate the
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  Speaker 1: question or say anything on it until leave be granted
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  Speaker 1: the presiding officer. My impression is that the question is
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  Speaker 1: not debatable, mister Sumner. I propose simply to explain my bill,
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  Speaker 1: to make a statement, not an argument, Mister Gwynn. I
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  Speaker 1: make the point of order the presiding Officer. I'm not
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  Speaker 1: aware precisely what the rule of order on the subject is,
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  Speaker 1: but I have the impression that the Senator cannot debate,
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  Speaker 1: mister Sumner. The distinction is this, Mister Gwynn, I insist
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  Speaker 1: upon the application of the decision of the Chair, mister
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  Speaker 1: Mason of Virginia. Mister President, there is one rule of
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  Speaker 1: order that is undoubted, that when the Chair is stating
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  Speaker 1: a question of order, he must not be interrupted by
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  Speaker 1: a senator. There is no question about that rule of order.
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  Speaker 1: The presiding officer. The Senator did not interrupt the Chair.
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  Speaker 1: Mister Sumner. The Chair does me justice and response to
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  Speaker 1: the injustice of the Senator from Virginia. The presiding officer
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  Speaker 1: order order, mister Mason. The Senator is doing that very
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  Speaker 1: thing at this moment. I'm endeavoring to sustain the authority
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  Speaker 1: of the Chair, which certainly has been violated the presiding Officer.
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  Speaker 1: It is the opinion of the Chair that the debate
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  Speaker 1: is out of order. I'm not precisely informed of what
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  Speaker 1: the rule is, but such is my clear impression. Mister
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  Speaker 1: Walker of Wisconsin, the Senator from Massachusetts will allow me.
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  Speaker 1: I will say a word here mister Sumner. Certainly, mister Walker.
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  Speaker 1: It is usual, upon notice being given of intention to
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  Speaker 1: ask leave to introduce a bill, the bill is sent
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  Speaker 1: to the Chair and it is taken as a matter
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  Speaker 1: of course that the senator asking it has leave. But
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  Speaker 1: in this instance, differing from the usual practice, objection has
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  Speaker 1: been made to leave being granted. The necessity is imposed then,
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  Speaker 1: of taking the sense of the Senate on granting leave
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  Speaker 1: to the senator to introduce his bill. That then becomes
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  Speaker 1: the question. The question for the Chair to put is
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  Speaker 1: shall the Senator have leave the presiding officer? That was
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  Speaker 1: the question proposed mister Walker. Now, sir, it does seem
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  Speaker 1: to me that it is proper, and that it is
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  Speaker 1: in order for the Senator to address himself to the
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  Speaker 1: Senate with a view of showing the propriety of granting
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  Speaker 1: the leave asked for. He has a right to show
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  Speaker 1: that there would be propriety on the part of the
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  Speaker 1: Senate in granting the leave. I think, therefore, as this
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  Speaker 1: may become a precedent in future in regard to other matters,
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  Speaker 1: that it should be settled with some degree of deliberation.
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  Speaker 1: Mister Gwynn, Let the Chair decide the question the presiding officer.
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  Speaker 1: The Chair has decided that debate was not in order
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  Speaker 1: in his opinion, mister Sumner. From that decision of the Chair,
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  Speaker 1: I most respectfully take an appeal the presiding officer from
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  Speaker 1: that ruling of the Chair. An appeal is taken by
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  Speaker 1: the Senator from Massachusetts. The question is on the appeal,
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  Speaker 1: mister Benjamin. In order to put a stop to the
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  Speaker 1: whole debate, I moved to lay the ap you on
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  Speaker 1: the table. That is a motion which is not debatable,
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  Speaker 1: Mister Sumner. Is that motion in order the presiding officer?
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  Speaker 1: Certainly it is in order, mister Weller of California. I
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  Speaker 1: desire to make one remark in regard to the rule
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  Speaker 1: the presiding Officer. It is not in order. Now the
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  Speaker 1: question must be taken without debate, Mister Sumner. Allow me
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  Speaker 1: to state the case as it seems to me. I
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  Speaker 1: was on the floor and yielded it to the Senator
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  Speaker 1: from Wisconsin strictly for the purpose of an explanation. When finished,
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  Speaker 1: I was in possession of the floor. And then it
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  Speaker 1: was that the Senator from Louisiana on my right, the
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  Speaker 1: presiding officer, will the Senator from Massachusetts give leave to
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  Speaker 1: the chair to explain, mister Sumner, certainly, the presiding officer.
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  Speaker 1: A point of order was made by the Senator from California,
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  Speaker 1: mister Gwyn, that debate was not in order upon the
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  Speaker 1: question of granting leave, and the Chair so decided. The
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  Speaker 1: Senator from Massachusetts then lost the floor, as I apprehend
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  Speaker 1: and he certainly did by following it up by an appeal.
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  Speaker 1: After that he could go no further. He lost the
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  Speaker 1: floor than again for a second time. And then it
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  Speaker 1: was that the Senator from Louisiana intervened with another motion,
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  Speaker 1: which is certainly in order to lay the appeal on
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  Speaker 1: the table that is not debatable. This, it seems to me,
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  Speaker 1: is the state of the case. Mister Chase of Ohio,
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  Speaker 1: Will the Chair allow me to make a single statement
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  Speaker 1: the presiding officer, certainly, mister Chase. The Senator from Massachusetts
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  Speaker 1: rose and held the floor during the suggestion made to
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  Speaker 1: the chair by the Senator from Wisconsin. The Chair, then,
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  Speaker 1: after the Senator from Wisconsin had finished his suggestion, declared
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  Speaker 1: his opinion to be notwithstanding the suggestion that debate was
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  Speaker 1: not in order. The Senator from Massachusetts then took an
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  Speaker 1: appeal and retained the floor for the purpose of addressing
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  Speaker 1: the Senate on that appeal. While he occupied the floor,
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  Speaker 1: the Senator from Louisiana rose and moved to lay the
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  Speaker 1: appeal upon the table that will be borne out by
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  Speaker 1: the gentleman present. The presiding officer. That is so, but
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  Speaker 1: the Chair does not understand that debate was in order
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  Speaker 1: on the appeal. The appeal was to be decided without debate,
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  Speaker 1: and therefore the Senator from Massachusetts necessarily lost the floor
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  Speaker 1: after he took his appeal. Mister Bell of Tennessee, I
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  Speaker 1: would inquire whether there is not a bill already pending
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  Speaker 1: for the repeal of the fugitive slave law. The presiding officer,
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  Speaker 1: I've not inquired of the secretary, but it is my
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  Speaker 1: belief there is a similar bill pending. But it was
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  Speaker 1: not on that ground the Chair made this ruling. Mister Bell,
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  Speaker 1: I would inquire whether there is not such a bill pending.
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  Speaker 1: Did not the Honorable Senator from Ohio some time ago
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  Speaker 1: bring in such a bill, Mister Weller, I think he did,
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  Speaker 1: mister Chase, No, sir, mister Bell, then I am mistaken,
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  Speaker 1: mister Chase. My bill is not on that subject. The
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  Speaker 1: Presiding office, Sir the question is on the motion of
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  Speaker 1: the Senator from Louisiana to lay on the table the
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  Speaker 1: appeal taken by the Senator from Massachusetts from the decision
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  Speaker 1: of the Chair. Mister Chase, I ask if the motion
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  Speaker 1: of the Senator from Louisiana is in order when the
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  Speaker 1: Senator from Massachusetts retained the floor for the purpose of
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  Speaker 1: debating the appeal. Mister Benjamin, the Senator is not in
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  Speaker 1: order in renewing that question which has already been decided
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  Speaker 1: by the Chair. The presiding off if the Chair acted
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  Speaker 1: under an erroneous impression in supposing that debate on the
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  Speaker 1: appeal was not in order when it actually is. It
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  Speaker 1: was the fault of the chair, and it would not
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  Speaker 1: have been in order for the Senator from Louisiana to
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  Speaker 1: make the motion which he did make while the Senator
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  Speaker 1: from Massachusetts was on the floor, but the Chair recognized
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  Speaker 1: the Senator from Louisiana, supposing that the Senator from Massachusetts
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  Speaker 1: had yielded the floor the Senator had taken appeal, he
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  Speaker 1: followed it up by no address to the chair, indicating
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  Speaker 1: an intention that he intended to debate the appeal, or
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  Speaker 1: the chair certainly should so far have recognized him, but
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  Speaker 1: the Chair would reconsider his ruling in that respect with
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  Speaker 1: the consent of the Senator from Louisiana, mister Bright of Indiana.
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  Speaker 1: The Chair will permit me to suggest that I think
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  Speaker 1: the motion proper to be entertained now is the one
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  Speaker 1: proposed by the Senator from New Hampshire. Mister Norris. The
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  Speaker 1: Senator from Massachusetts presented his bill. The Senator from New
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  Speaker 1: Hampshire raised the question as to whether the Senate would
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  Speaker 1: grant leave to introduce it. And I think the proper
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  Speaker 1: question to be put now is will the Senate grant
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  Speaker 1: leave to introduce a bill repealing the Fugitive Slave Law.
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  Speaker 1: The effect of the motion of the Senator from Louisiana
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  Speaker 1: would be to lay the subject on the table from
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  Speaker 1: which it might be taken at any time for action.
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  Speaker 1: For one I desire to give a decisive vote now
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  Speaker 1: declaring that I am unwilling to legislate upon the subject,
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  Speaker 1: that I am satisfied with the law as it reads,
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  Speaker 1: and that I will not aid the Senator from Massachusetts
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  Speaker 1: or any Senator in the presiding officer. The Senator from
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  Speaker 1: Indiana is certainly not in order, mister Bright, I certainly
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  Speaker 1: am in order in calling the attention of the Chair
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  Speaker 1: to the fact that the Senator from New Hampshire, the
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  Speaker 1: presiding officer, the Senator from in is not in order.
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  Speaker 1: Mister Bright. Then I will sit down and ask the
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  Speaker 1: Chair to state where n I am out of order
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  Speaker 1: the presiding officer in discussing a question which is not
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  Speaker 1: before the Senate. Mister Bright, I claim that the motion
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  Speaker 1: is before the Senate. The Senator from New Hampshire raised
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  Speaker 1: the question immediately that the presiding officer, the Chair decides otherwise,
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  Speaker 1: mister Bright. Then I appeal from the decision of the Chair,
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  Speaker 1: and I state this as my point of order, that
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  Speaker 1: before the bill was presented in legal parlance, the Senator
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  Speaker 1: from New Hampshire raised the question as to whether the
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  Speaker 1: Senate would grant leave, and that is the point now
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  Speaker 1: before the Senate, the presiding officer, the Chair will state
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  Speaker 1: the question which he supposes to be pending. The Senator
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  Speaker 1: from California made a point of order the debate on
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  Speaker 1: the bill proposed to be introduced by the Senator from
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  Speaker 1: Massachusetts was not in order. The Chair so ruled from
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  Speaker 1: that ruling. The Senator from Massachusetts took an appeal. The
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  Speaker 1: Chair supposed that the Senator from Massachusetts had yielded the floor,
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  Speaker 1: and he gave the floor to the Senator from Louisiana,
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  Speaker 1: who moved to lay that appeal on the table. That
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  Speaker 1: is the question which is now pending. The Chair before
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  Speaker 1: suggested that if the Senator from Massachusetts had not yielded
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  Speaker 1: the floor, he had made a mistake in giving the
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  Speaker 1: floor to the Senator from Louisiana. But he did not
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  Speaker 1: suppose that the Senator from Massachusetts, after taking the appeal,
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  Speaker 1: without some indication of his intention to debate it, continued
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  Speaker 1: to hold the floor, and he therefore recognized the Senator
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  Speaker 1: from Louisiana. The Chair is sorry if he did the
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  Speaker 1: Senator from Massachusetts injustice in that respect, but he did
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  Speaker 1: not hear him and recognized the Senator from Louisiana. Mister Bright,
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  Speaker 1: I would respectfully ask the Chair what has become of
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  Speaker 1: the motion submitted by the Senator from New Hampshire the
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  Speaker 1: presiding officer the Chair did not understand him to submit emotion,
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  Speaker 1: but the Senator from California took his point of order.
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  Speaker 1: Mister Bright I wished to inquire of the Senator from
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  Speaker 1: New Hampshire whether he has withdrawn his motion. The presiding
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  Speaker 1: officer it was not entertained. It is not in his
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  Speaker 1: power to say whether it was withdrawn or not, for
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  Speaker 1: it was not entertained, mister Norris, I think I can
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  Speaker 1: inform my friend from Indiana how the matter stands. The
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  Speaker 1: Senator from Massachusetts proposed to introduce a bill on notice given.
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  Speaker 1: I raised the question that it could not be introduced
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  Speaker 1: without leave of the Senator if there was objection, mister Sumner,
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  Speaker 1: to understand the Senator to say, without notice given, I
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  Speaker 1: asked leave to introduce the bill in pursuance of notice,
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  Speaker 1: mister Norris. The Senator from Massachusetts, I've already stated, offered
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  Speaker 1: his bill agreeably to previous notice. Mister Sumner, precisely, mister Norris.
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  Speaker 1: The question was then raised whether it would be received
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  Speaker 1: if there was objection. The question arose whether leaves should
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  Speaker 1: be granted to the Senator for Massachusetts to introduce the bill.
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  Speaker 1: Mister Sumner, that is the first question. Mister Norris. The
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  Speaker 1: Senator from Massachusetts, upon the question of granting leave undertook
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  Speaker 1: to address the Senate. He was then called to order
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  Speaker 1: by my friend from California for discussing that question. The
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  Speaker 1: Chair sustained the objection of the Senator from California. From
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  Speaker 1: the decision of the Chair, the Senator from Massachusetts took
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  Speaker 1: an appeal, and that is where the question now stands.
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  Speaker 1: Unless the Senator from Louisiana had a right to make
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  Speaker 1: the motion which he did make, which was to lay
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  Speaker 1: the appeal on the table the Presiding Officer, the question
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  Speaker 1: is unless the Senator from Louisiana will disembarrass the Chair
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  Speaker 1: by withdrawing it. On the motion of the Senator from
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  Speaker 1: Louisiana to lay the appeal on the table, mister Sumner,
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  Speaker 1: on that motion, I asked for the ya's and nays.
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  Speaker 1: The ya's and nays were ordered, Foot of Vermont. On
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  Speaker 1: what motion have the yeas and nay has been ordered?
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  Speaker 1: The Presiding Officer On the motion of the Senator from Louisiana,
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  Speaker 1: Mister Walker, I wish to know before voting what will
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  Speaker 1: be the effect of a vote given in the affirmative
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  Speaker 1: on this motion? Will it carry the bill and the
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  Speaker 1: whole subject on the table? Mister Foot, An affirmative carries
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  Speaker 1: the whole measure on the table, the Presiding Officer. If
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  Speaker 1: the motion to lay on the table be agreed to,
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  Speaker 1: it carries the bill with it several Senators No, No,
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  Speaker 1: mister Benjamin. The question is whether on the motion for
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  Speaker 1: leave to introduce the bill there shall be debate. The
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  Speaker 1: Chair has decided that there shall be no debate. Those
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  Speaker 1: who vote yeay on my motion to lay the appeal
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  Speaker 1: of the Senator from Massachusetts on the table will vote
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  Speaker 1: that there is to be no debate upon the permission
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  Speaker 1: to offer the bill, and then the question will be
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  Speaker 1: taken upon granting leave, mister Walker. The Chair decides differently.
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  Speaker 1: The Chair decides, if I understand that it will carry
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  Speaker 1: the bill on the table, then how can we ever
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  Speaker 1: reach the question of leave? When objection is made, mister
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  Speaker 1: Weller object to this discussion, the Chair will decide that
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  Speaker 1: question when it arrives. It does not arise. Now I
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  Speaker 1: insist that the Secretary shall go on and call the roll.
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  Speaker 1: Mister Walker. Suppose some of us object to it, mister Weller,
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  Speaker 1: then I object to your discussing it. The presiding officer,
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  Speaker 1: the Chair, on reflection, thinks that the motion, if agreed to,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: would not have a further effect than to bring up
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: the question granting leave. Mister Bright, I desire to understand
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: the Chair. I do not wish to insist on anything
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: that is not right or that is not within the rules.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: But I insist upon having the Honorable Senator from Louisiana
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: is right in his conclusions as to his motion, provided
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: he had a right to make the motion. But I
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: doubt whether he had a right to make that motion
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: of the Honorable Senator from New Hampshire was pending. I
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: do not wish, however, to consume the time of the Senate.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: If the effect of the decision of the chairs to
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: bring us back to the question as to whether we
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: shall receive the bill or not, I will yield the
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: floor the presiding Officer. That is it, mister Bright, Very well,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: mister Sumner. Before the vote is taken, allow me to
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: read a few words from the Rules and Orders and
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: from Jefferson Manuel. One day's notice at least shall be
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: given of an intended motion for leave to bring in
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: a bill. That is the twenty fifth rule of the Senate.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: And then to that rule in the publication which I
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: now hold in my hand, is appended from Jefferson Manuel
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: the following decisive language. When a member desires to bring
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: in a bill on any subjects, he states to the
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: House in general terms, the causes for doing it, and
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: concludes by moving forward leave to bring in a bill
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: entitled et cetera. Leave being given on the question, a
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: committee is appointed to prepare and bring in the bill.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Now I was simply observe that my purpose was merely
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: to make a statement. Mister Benjamin, I called to order
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: the presiding officer. The Senator had presented his bill and
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: was debating it. Afterwards. The question is on the motion
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: of the Senator from Louisiana to lay the appeal on
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: the table, and on that the yeas and nays have
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: been ordered. The appeal was ordered to lie on the
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: table by a vote of thirty five to ten. The
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: Senate then proceeded to record its refusal to grant leave
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: to introduce the bill by a like vote of ten
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: to thirty five. Thus ended this hour's struggle for the
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: floor on the part of mister Sumner, with the slave power,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: which was seconded at every point, the reader, doubtless observed
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: by Northern representatives eager to do its service. End of
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Chapter ten