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What I've Learnt - David Briskin · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: With some 20 years' experience in retail and finance, David Brisken is hailed for kick-starting Midlux accessories brand Mimco as managing director and shareholder in 1999.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: And for his work with Sassan Bide as CEO from 2008, turning the brand around before it was sold off to Maya in a multi-million dollar deal in 2014.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: In February of that year, Brisken became the director of menswear retailer MJ Bale and is the founder of Brisken Investments and Advisory, a consulting firm to many domestic and international brands.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: David reflecting says, really, I just want the Australian fashion industry to grow, to thrive and be successful.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully, through the Melbourne Fashion Festival, I can contribute to that.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: With Melbourne's retailers and fashion hubs being ravaged by the COVID crisis, Victoria has been one of the hardest-hit states.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: The challenge of holding a global fashion festival, curating, cultivating, and showcasing talent from across the world, but also across the fashion spectrum is going to be huge.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: But David has demonstrated both business acumen and a savvy approach to challenging times, always with a keen eye for opportunity.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Working closely with this board to foster and facilitate this popular Melbourne event, we discussed the future of fashion, the Melbourne Fashion Festival, David's view on an evolving new realm of showcasing fashion on the internet, and the slow demise of the bricks and mortar store as we know it.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, David, welcome to the What I've Learned podcast.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: So wonderful to chat to you about all things fashion.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me, David, um, I mean, there's so much that we can cover here because you're involved in some really interesting areas of fashion.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just talk about what drove you into the fashion world in the beginning because let's let's be honest, it's a long way from business law.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Or is it?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: This is the question.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh good question, Deb.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: First up, got me thinking, thanks so much for having me on the podcast.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh great to see you and chat with you.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um look, it isn't it isn't.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've I've never been a fashion guy, uh Deb, to be really honest with you.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: I I've always been interested in business and uh certainly very interested in retail.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, going back to my past with my family, my dad had me working in in family supermarkets when I was 12 or 13 years old.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, trade and retail has always been in the blood.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then um Amanda started Mimco and and it was turning into a great business, and we saw an opportunity for growth.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um there was probably the need to have some business um management in the into the business as well as the creative side.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that's sort of where I started in the business of fashion.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, I I never I've never been really a fashion guy, to be honest.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that interesting?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, so really what you're saying is there's a fundamental work and business ethic that you've applied, you know, in the first instance, which you learnt on the on the floor of the grocery store when you're working, you know, I love that that that's something that you grew up with.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: And really what you've done is say, I just have to believe in what the product is, whatever it is, and give it the best shot.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Is that sort of the philosophy that you've got?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely absolutely.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I think you know, you touched on the product being crucial, and it really is.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, in all the businesses I've been involved in, you know, whether it's Mimco or Sass and Byte or MJ Bale now and others that I've just advising, um, not as a shareholder, it really starts with the product and the brand, and they're they're absolutely crucial.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then what I do is it once I recognize that the product and the brand really has got the potential for that growth, um, I then come in with what I call the boring stuff, which is um, you know, the reporting, the open to buy and planning, the financial aspect of it, the funding, uh, cash flow management.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's stuff that's crucial, not just in the fashion business, but in any business.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and often um designers are uh you know super busy creating the brand and the product, and which is which is a brutal sort of cycle that they're all in and incredibly difficult, and and at times they're relying on financial people for the other advice.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess that's where I come into it.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, really, you provide like a scaffolding, but also, in a sense, an infrastructure, because often, as we know, um the creatives want to create, as you reflected, but the challenge in is to be business-minded with that creativity because you can have the best idea in the world and the best brand in the world, but if you don't know how to translate that into the business sector, that's where you come in.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something that you have mastered.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: But is it what what did you learn?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Was I mean, was Mimco the first, I suppose, um, foray into that?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And what did you learn from that experience?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, before Mimco, in between the law and Mimco, I actually ran an Australian zip manufacturing business for about three years, which was in a lot of financial distress, and and uh it was connected to the family.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I went in and ran that for three years and helped turn that around.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: But um, that was probably the first sort of, and it was on the edge of the fashion industry because it supplied a lot of Australian manufacturers and a lot of Australian brands, their their zips.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I had an inkling there, and then Mimco was certainly the first fashion business that I was involved in, I guess, directly.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and we started in wholesale and then we grew retail.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I sort of learnt on the job there over about a 10-year period.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we grew a small business into a slightly larger business and then and then sold that.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: But that's where I really learned the the trade.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: And and so when you're turning something around like that for for people on the outside, just saying, I mean, turning around a zip specialist company, I know that was family, but what what does that involve?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like what are the nuts and bolts of you know, in a sort of a pricey, but yeah.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I get I guess it it comes back again, it comes back to the product you've got and and um you know your consistency of supply in that sort of a business because you know um manufacturers were relying on us for supply.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then it comes back to the basics in business, the team, your margins, your ability to supply on time, uh, reliability and quality, um, having some short, medium, and long-term goals, making sure your cash flow is under control to be able to grow the business.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you know, uh measuring it all with KPIs and and and great reporting.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it it all sounds boring, Deb, in some ways, but if you get that right in a business and your product sells, you've got to start with that.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, then you know, you're on the way.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess that those principles we've applied through the different businesses.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so, what do you love about it?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Do you love the idea that you can actually um is there's something quite um rewarding about either picking the pieces up and recreating something new from the ashes, so to speak?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Is that, or is it also about just creating something new, like you did with Mimco?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: What's what's your real passion?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think both have been really exciting.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, from my point of view, um I think building a team as you grow a business, whether it's turnaround or a growth, building a great team of people that you work with and that you're on the journey with, um, I don't think there's anything better than that.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that you know, camaraderie in the bond that you share with a great team of people in a business and seeing it succeed, ultimately, I think is brilliant.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I've been so lucky to work with amazing people.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And a number of the people I worked with at Mimco or at Sass and Byde have have come along and and are now working with us at MJ Bale.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh, you know, um Nick Zok, a national retail manager at Mimco, went on to work at Sass and Bide rolling out stores and then MJ Bale rolling out stores.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, so we've got a number of people that have come on the journey with us through businesses, and and I think that's been one of the most enjoyable aspects of growing in a business.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: So those bonds of friendship and professional relationships are important to you.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting because um clearly you have to be able to nurture those and yet also be hardcore and business minded in order to get the job done.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a combination of is success, do you think, a combination of luck and strategy?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you think I mean I know that's hard because obviously it varies?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think luck's I think luck's always involved in in everything you do.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, right place, right time, and and and a bit of luck on your side helps.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think hard work is is even more important than luck.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you know, everyone will tell you there's nothing like hard work to get something done, you know, and Mimco is an overnight success after 10 years of bloody hard work.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and Sass and Bide was eventually sold after, you know, 15 years of incredibly hard work.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I think that hard work aspect's there, but I also think um the right people um are crucial.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, for me it was always making sure we employed people who knew their jobs and their roles much better than I did, um, and were much better at what they did in the business in their specialty than than me.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I think that's crucial as well, and not being scared to employ really clever, great people.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: And to learn from them and to be deferential in the sense that you you respect that you have to delegate the things that you're not good at.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm assuming that you you seem to be very good at that.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have an issue with saying, okay, that's not my thing, but I'm willing to learn from that person or to bring them in.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really important as a leader and as a manager.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Is that yeah, I think delegating is crucial.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, my wife Elizabeth will tell you, Deb, that I'm a very, very good delegator.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, I I always like to leave a meeting where there's not many things to do on my list, but lots of things to do on everyone else's list.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's my idea.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: If I can walk out and have nothing on my list, it's ideal, it's perfect.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: David, I love that.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that you could have a word to a number of people that I know, including my husband, on that front.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because delegation uh, you know, is really important.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, whatever you're doing or running, it's it's something that you've obviously learned how to do, not just from tapping into their resources, but to free yourself to be effective at what you do.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's right.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think delegation is important, but but also empowering the people that you're working with to um to not do their job for them.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, I'm there to help them.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: And if I can assist, if I if they want to brainstorm ideas or thoughts or problems, then great.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: But otherwise they'll get on and get it done.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just there as a support person.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, I think both sort of that delegation and empowerment's really crucial.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that comes back to having the right people you're working with.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so fashion and retail have taken quite a pound in this past few years, cemented by the COVID crisis.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Stores are shutting and popular, entrenched brands are falling like flies.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think this is the reckoning the fashion world had to have?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you think, I mean, because there's a lot of, you know, and obviously we'll talk about specifics, but generally we know a lot of people mutually in the retail sector.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: What's your take on that?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think um what COVID has done in the last 12 months is accelerated what was already happening.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: So if you go back um five years, you saw a significant increase in the number of online brands that were um available in Australia and the ease of shipping internationally and returning products.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, the the threat from online.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: But if you go back earlier, then it was the international brands that were coming and opening bricks and mortar in Australia and opening stores.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um so um over the last uh 10 years, there have been different um reasons why retail has become harder and harder in Australia.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: But but having said that, um I I still believe there's a future for retail for bricks and mortar retail in Australia.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I know it in your introduction you you sort of mentioned the demise of retail, but I'm actually a big believer in retail in this country.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, before COVID, Dev, and I don't know the exact number, but let's say you know eight or nine percent of sales in Australia were made through online.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that means 92% was being made in retail out in stores, and now it's accelerated, and maybe 15% of sales are made in um through online.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: So 85% is still in stores.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: So retail is crucial.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, really, we're we're talking about, and you know, in that intro, I referred to bricks and mortar versus online.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: So retail clearly has a powerful role.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, through COVID, as we all know, that you know, the delivery man was dropping off, you know, packages left, right, and center.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: But what you're saying is people were still really keen to have that in-store experience and to feel connected to the brand.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't mean that it's easier or that it um it's less competitive, it's harder than ever, and you have to be better than ever as a brand with your product, with your brand, with your communication within store, with the teams that are working in-store and their product knowledge and their ability to help you as a customer.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's more challenging than ever.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: But the people that do it well, I think will succeed in long term as well.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: And do you think that that's going to be impacted by the way certain landlords facilitate and support these brands to survive and sustain themselves?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we all know the challenges that many have had, particularly in the big shopping centre space.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: They've been pummeled, they've been rejected, you know, their deals have been rejected as they try and survive.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: What's your take on that?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think this needs to be a cohesive effort whereby, you know, people need to join forces, including the landlords of some of these big corporations and uh shopping centres?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: What's your take on that?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, ultimately it is a partnership.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um the the landlords need the tenants and the tenants need the landlords.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, the big centres, you know, uh a number of people come up to me and say, oh, you know, those evil big centres.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm saying, give give me those, give me more of those types of stores where you've got big centres and there's big traffic flow and they're successful.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're not evil.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're a they're a part of um the framework of what we do.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, but your point is right.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think there needs to be uh a more open and honest dialogue between the landlords and the and the stores to ensure that the partnership can be long-term.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and rents will adjust, and they have over time, and it's it's happened for many years.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, High Street Armadale 20 years ago was was easy to get a shop in, and now it's full and it's thriving and it's doing really well.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: So naturally the rents have gone up over time in that strip.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: At the moment, Chapel Street's having an incredibly tough time.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: But now I'm seeing a few stores opening up, and and you know, MJ Bale's about to move to a bigger store in Chapel Street.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we're excited about the potential of the strip and we're not leaving it.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think um it'll ebb and flow, but it's important that there's an honest um and open dialogue between uh tenants and landlords.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Do you also see it as opportunity for brands, be it MJ Bale, which is reasonably established, obviously, but but do you think there's also great opportunity for young or for new brands to emerge as a result of this sort of uh I suppose new new vacuum that's that's been become available, it it sort of leaves some spots for new energy.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's right.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think now it's easier than ever to get a pop-up store in um in certain strips, whereas um, you know, two, three, four years ago you couldn't.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I Deb, I I think about when I was trying to find a Mimco store in Chapel Street, it was 20 years ago.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: I had to literally walk from Mulvern Road to Turak Road and I knocked on every door and spoke to every shopkeeper saying, You're ending your lease soon, um, do you want to get out of your store?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: There was nothing available, and that was 20 years ago.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, when we did the Sass and Buy store 10 years ago, we paid record high rents for that store at the time.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was$2,000 a meter.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um the same store is empty, and you could probably get it for$500 a meter 10 years later.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: So you're right, because what that means is if you're a young brand with a great idea and some great product, you could probably approach a landlord and do a six-month pop-up at a decent rent to try your concept.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that would never have happened many years ago.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there will be opportunities.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, David, we were talking just about uh the uh the strange COVID impact on the retail sector.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk to me a little bit about the some of the strategies that you saw businesses implement in order to survive?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, Deb.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously with MJ Bale and other businesses that I advised, some of the things that we really focused on were reviewing our costs throughout the business to make sure we we reduce those to protect cash.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um we were very uncertain about when sales would come back.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so therefore you really had to protect the business at all costs.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: So go right through the business, reduce your costs.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, that meant also um letting go of a few people, uh, which was really shattering for um for us and for a number of businesses out there, no doubt.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: And sure, JobKeeper helped and we did everything we could to protect jobs.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: But ultimately, when your sales go from you know from normal to um to 40, 50, 60 percent down, and if not more during shutdown, you just have to protect the business.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think as a result of that, a lot of these businesses will come out in better shape.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if they can make sure they get through the challenging period and and sales are now coming back, which is great, I think a lot of businesses will be in better shape.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: But gee, that's been a very trying and difficult time through that uncertainty of April through to you know September, October of last year.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: And very, very difficult for so many people.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: And do you think there's been a have you seen a I suppose camaraderie of sorts between certain business people?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: I know that you have many people that you know in business and retail.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um have people helped out each other?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Has there been a sense of, you know, mate?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: I know like, you know, I'm being hit too.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is there a sense of, or did you feel quite solitary on the journey with No, look, I I I think it was um there were there were a lot of people in fashion that did reach out.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: There was uh a call um that was started um last year, I think in about April, of um fashion retailers and fashion brands that got together and jumped on a weekly Zoom call.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that sort of grew and grew.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: It started off as you know, eight, ten people, ended up being eighty or ninety people were on a weekly call to chat through um some of the challenges they were facing, some of the um strategies that were being put in place, um, how to deal with department stores who were trying to cancel cancel orders, what was happening with landlords, what was happening with your supply lines out of China, what to do with stock.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, there was a real coming together of the industry um through that time, which I think was fantastic.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's great to hear because I think from from what I've obviously heard around the traps, people have really struggled.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think to know that you're part of a community and that you're all going to do what you can to drive change, to adapt, all of the things that you've outlined.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, obviously, you did you find comfort in that yourself personally, or you know, did you observe other people lifted up by that?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: I both I observed comfort, and I think other people were also greatly um assisted by it.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's it's what I say to a lot of young brands, and that is find people you can talk to in your business, find, you know, whether it's mentors or people who've done it before, people that are on the journey with you, even if they're peers, even if they're young brands starting out, go and have a coffee with them and have a chat about what they're going through.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: You'll find that most people are happy to have a chat to you about it and uh and reach out for and develop those connections because um you know you'll learn a lot, you'll share what you know, you'll actually be able to teach as well.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's crucial and and uh never more important than through a crisis like what we experienced last year.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: So you've seen great transition, you're hopeful, you see a lot of positives, you don't you don't feel bleak.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit just briefly about MJ Bale and how that's faring.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, it's an interesting notion, it's in the the menswear space.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: What what's happening in that space?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's an interesting time.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, again, um we we've been hit from all sides.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was it's uh predominantly a brand that does a lot of um traditionally has done a lot of suiting and formal wear.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um in the last few years we've moved to a lot more casual product and and um increased our offer in that in that regard.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, start of COVID, you had people working from home, so people were coming out of their more formal wear.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: You had CBDs effectively close down.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: So in the city of Melbourne, NGO Bell's got four or five stores.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: So all of a sudden, people aren't going to the cities, they're not wearing those clothes anymore.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, luckily, as I said, we've been moving to casual clothes for the last few years, but we've certainly accelerated the shift to casual.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we still do great suits and more formal wear, but you you're seeing a shift in the way the the products are presented in stores.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um but now it's interesting, we're selling suits again.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: People are going back into Yeah, I mean, guys are wanting to dress up.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's coming back.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Guys are sick of wearing tracksuits, they're sick of sitting on Zoom at home, they want to be out and about, they want to go back to their office and and engage with their co workers and.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Socialize and go out for a beer after work.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're seeing um sales have increased again.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: So um I I don't think again, I don't think uh uh retail's dead, I don't think the the suits are finished and and dressing up is done.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um we've got the fashion festival coming up in a week, and everyone will need a new suit and the and the and the girls will need new outfits for that.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: So there's always a reason to dress up.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: So tell me a little bit about Melbourne Fashion Festival.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: What can we expect?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the highlights, and I one of the things I do want to touch on is I love that there's such diversity and representation of a broader demographic across the board.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I do want to touch on that as well, but maybe just go through some of the things you see as highlights of the festival.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um excited that we can have it in Melbourne and hopefully it's all open and it's going to be quite a quite a show.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's looking good at the moment.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're all open and we've got um sold out, most of our runway shows are sold out.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you know, between uh 350 and 500 people per show, um, which is great.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's certainly down from where we were last year, where we had at exhibition buildings and it was 1500 people per show.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously, as a result of COVID, we've needed to um change our uh runways.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: But we've got um four uh nights of live runways uh that are starting next Thursday night.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and we also have um the Australian Fashion Summit, which is now being delivered digitally this year, obviously a result of COVID.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um we had a lot of issues with potential um speakers potentially traveling coming from interstate or internationally.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we made the decision about a week and a half ago to go to digital when there was potentially a lockdown threat in Melbourne, um, just to take the uncertainty away from that event.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um so uh so you've got your runways, the Australian Fashion Summit, and also we've got some independent runways, we've got the arts program, um, so there's there's you know there's lots happening.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um jump onto the website, uh anyone listening who wants to see some more details around what we're doing, but there's you know a huge amount of events, uh both online and live events for people to enjoy.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're really excited about it.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is exciting, and I think it's great to hear sort of some positive news, particularly out of Melbourne, Victoria, that's had such a such a pummeling.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's just great that we have there's that, there's the Melbourne Food and Wine Festival, there's so much happening again, and I'm hoping that Victoria will recover quickly because it's been quite a traumatic year.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: And what about just finally, talk to me a little bit about um as a family man, as somebody who I know adores his kids, um, and I've known you for a long time and I've always seen you very, very involved with your kids.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, tell me a little bit about what you have learnt from your children and from being a family man and juggling corporate life with family life.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: What are some, you know, for some of the men that are listening, they love hearing about how other men, you know, juggle, juggle the work-life balance.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I mean it's it's interesting, isn't it?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: I've got older older sons, so um the older boys, Blake and Indy, and younger girls, um, Lucy and Grace.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting how kids teach you so much, but certainly through COVID, um, for the young ones at least, um, they they weren't too concerned about anything.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they were they were happy, they were in the moment, they had mum and dad around, um, they got to spend more time with me than they would have otherwise as a result of COVID, of me working from home a lot more and being at home more.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and what kids teach you is actually to be in the moment um in a in a spectacular way, in a way that us adults forget.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you know, that's one thing that I think um you'll learn, I learned, and and also um realizing what you actually need to make you happy.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think we've all sort of learned a little bit about that as well, and kids teach you that as well, is that um, you know, they don't need we we don't need as much as we think um at the end of the day to to make us happy.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: And um I think that was a real learning for me as well.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, it's it's been a very unusual 12 months.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: It you know, in some ways it would have been nice, I'm sure everyone agrees, to have to have um to have had been able to be at home more and more family time without the stress of COVID in the background.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, you know, for me it was the the issues around the festival and and what we were going to do sort of at the end of the last year's festival when you finished a couple of days early because of COVID and the the the issues then with MJ Bale and the closing reet up.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it would have been great to be home enjoying the kids and being present without that in the background.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um but that's something we can look forward to.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so do you think you'll change the way you work in terms of will you go back full steam into the office space or will you do a bit of both?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Or you probably I I don't I quite enjoy being in the office.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, I I don't mind the break between work and home.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, I you know, perhaps I'm old-fashioned in that regard, but I quite enjoy being in the office, getting my work done, then going home and not having to think about work where possible.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't always work out that way.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's good.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: So certainly uh Zoom meetings, and you know, I used to travel into state um for meetings.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, MJ Bell's based in Sydney and other some other things I'm involved with are in Sydney, so I used to have to jump on a plane, and clearly I haven't done that for the best part of a year.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I think now the reality is you can do a lot more through um this type of a meeting than than we than we all thought.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I definitely won't be travelling and jumping on planes as frequently.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's it's um going to be a very interesting 2021 because everybody's recalibrating and it sounds like you are too.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's very exciting to hear that um you're feeling very positive about um a fashion forward future.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to thank you so much for your time, David.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for coming on the What I've Learned podcast.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I look forward to seeing all of the exciting things that you're going to be doing in the next year.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Deb.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for asking me on.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's been great chatting with you as always.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Great to see you.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be there.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: All right, take care.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for listening.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: The What I've Learned podcast will now be coming to you weekly with new episodes released every Tuesday.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: So check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, stay tuned, kind, and curious.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Love death.