Latest / Skin Anarchy / Igniting The Potential Of Clean Beauty Backed By Technology ft. IGNAE - E. 516

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Igniting The Potential Of Clean Beauty Backed By Technology ft. IGNAE - E. 516 · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hey fam, welcome back.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: So again, before the episode I wanted to just make a little announcement.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Today we got published in both Market Watch and also Business Insider.
• 0:11
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• 0:17
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• 0:22
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• 0:32
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• 0:39
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• 0:43
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• 0:46
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• 0:47
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• 1:04
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• 1:09
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• 1:17
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• 1:25
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• 1:27
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• 1:30
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• 1:37
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• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um, I've mentioned my email before, but again, you can email us either at skincareanarchy at gmail.com or you can email me directly, ecta e-k T A at skincareanarchypodcast.com, and we will, you know, definitely work something out.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're here to just create a network and work together.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, like I said, thank you so much to Business Insider, thank you so much to Market Watch, and also, you know, before that we got published, um prior to that as well in Yahoo Finance.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much to all three publications.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: This has been such a dream come true, and we can't wait to keep expanding and to keep growing.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we're almost at five million downloads, we're literally on the cusp of it.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I just it blows my mind every time I look at our statistics because it just it shows, you know, you guys show up for it.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for every single person out there that tunes in.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna stop rambling and let you get to the show.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I hope you love this one, it's a really, really um awesome brand, and I really have been loving them so much.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: All right, guys, thank you so much and have a wonderful, wonderful day.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: This is your host, Dekta, and today I have such a wonderful line that I want to introduce you guys to.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: I am a huge fan.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: I've been loving it since I received it.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: I've been using it continuously, and I have the immense honor of interviewing one of their co-founders.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to the co-founder of Ignai Skincare, Miguel Pombo.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Miguel, I'm so honored to be hosting you.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having us.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm the one who's honored actually to be able to speak to you today.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's so kind of you, and I I really appreciate it.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I know honestly, I really love the line.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, you know, I have been continuously using it.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, just last night I was using the uh the clay mask.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it's uh it's definitely a favorite of mine.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to dive in eventually um in the interview into the actual products.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: But first, if you could get us start as started, Miguel, and tell us about, you know, where did Ignai really start from?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, where did the idea come from?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: And um, where did you guys really get the inspiration to start the line?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, also about yourself, you know, your background.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, um it was uh um an unlikely uh uh career uh choice because I was actually so I I went early in my career after uh finishing my my bachelor's degree, I went to Brussels to work in a regulatory affairs firm that had a lot of uh customers in the many of the customers were ingredient manufacturers, pharmaceuticals, um uh uh cosmetic companies.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: So we I was I had the the chance to work with these customers, and uh well, probably because I was an intern, they gave me the most boring job, which was to look at the regulatory affairs, the regulatory status within the European Union.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a very bureaucratic uh work, but it really allowed me to understand a little about the inner workings of uh cosmetics manufacturing and the ingredients.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in terms of their efficacy, what they did to the skin, uh how they were extracted or manufactured.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: So looking at many of these ingredients, I realized that in the Azores Islands, we had a lot of those um ingredients available also, like the thermal water, um the the the the big diversity of plants, um, a lot of ocean-derived ingredients, so a lot of seaweed, uh, some of them only exist here.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I saw that all these ingredients were being used by by many cosmetic companies.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, and I said to myself, why don't we do this in the Azores as well?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what really hit me was the fact that in that year, I think it was 2009, the best-selling product um in the US, well, one of the best-selling products at least was the was a uh volcanic um sand exfoliator from a very well-known uh brand.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, and because supposedly it was the most exotic sand in the world because it was black um and it came from the Venwa too islands.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: With the the fender is black because of the volcanoes.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and all the sand in the Azores is black.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: We use it for construction.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: So and I said, that's not exotic.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that's when it really struck me that um we were, in fact, a very exotic uh uh set of islands, and we had we really had something different that could not be found elsewhere in the world.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that's when I made my mind and decided to come back and started experimenting with all these uh ingredients and extraction protocols, uh, which take a lot of time.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't just coming here and start mixing things.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we had to develop a preliminary uh work in terms of optimizing extraction processes.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it took us a while.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um we launched the first range in 2017.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, but that in a nutshell, that that was the the the our our our way so uh until the the the point that we were ready to to launch.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: We were focusing initially on uh on wound healing actives because um we saw that we had a few ingredients that were really good for this, but wound healing agents are also very good for skincare because they make your skin produce more collagen, they maintain the barrier function of the lipid barrier of our lipid uh uh layer.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it was an obvious uh uh choice to launch a skincare range.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: We were at the time we were actually still using Colostrum from uh bovine origin um from the Azores.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that was quite an adventure, and it eventually we were lucky that um it caught the attention of Joanna Czech, um, who was our first customer.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: And um yeah, and it really took off uh after that.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we owe a lot to her, you know, paying attention to us and and taking the time to learn uh because that in turn influenced a lot of people to in a lot of stores to carry our brand after they they noticed that she was uh uh using it.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, wow.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I love what you said about how you saw a brand using something that you knew was so readily available, you know, in a specific geographical area.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that's something that I really see a lot of.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, having interviewed so many brands, I see that a lot.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I love the brands that come on to skincare.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think they're all wonderful and unique, but I think in just the skincare industry itself, we see a lot of hype, you know, in terms of marketing around these exotic ingredients, right?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then we uh when we dig a little bit deeper, we start to understand that there are some brands that are truly giving you that level of, you know, exposure to the real exotic ingredients, right?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then there are other brands that are just saying that they're doing it, but in reality it's not because it's not.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, one of the biggest questions is is it sustainable or not?
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and that's that's where my mind always goes when I hear a brand say something like, oh, well, this is a very rare ingredient, you know, like that's where I'm and I always think, well, how are you producing it then?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like how are you able to make so many products if it's so rare and if it's so limited?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I like what you had said about the sand and the volcanic uh sand because you know, and for everyone listening, you know, out there, that's a very great point that Miguel made about volcanic sand, is that because it's so deeply nourishing, you know, it comes from the earth, really.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you think about what's coming out of a volcano, it's from the deep depth of the earth.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's really what the eruptions are.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: So when that cools down and it turns into, you know, that black ash or whatever you want to call it, it's the minerals and the elements that are found in that kind of you know, soil or sand or or so, whatever you want to call it, it's very, very rich in nutrients.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where I get very interested in in Igni because, you know, apart from just being from the islands, I think more importantly, it's places that are very rich in terms of the um endemic ingredients or the endemic plants or species that grow there because of the richness of the soil, right?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's so much surrounded by water, it's so much surrounded by, you know, things that are really uh essential for something to grow.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where I I think um I really want to ask you, you know, what are some of the more hallmark things in your line, you know, that we don't really see readily in uh skincare products.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say that um what I mean, obviously we use the thermal water, which is not uh suitable for human consumption because it's heavily mineralized.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not a resource that we're we're taking from from you know, using for a different purpose than what it should be uh used.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I I would perhaps say that um the chameleon, so in our propriet, we have a patent pending uh ingredient, which is the EPC factor.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it uses leaves from, and this I think answers the question.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so we use leaves from camellias that are wild harvested.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: So these camellias uh are not planted to to you know to supply us.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: So we use the trimmings from the camellias actually, from a place, uh a volcano in Saul Miguel Island called Furnush, so where they grow for like ornamental purposes.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: So we only use the the the the trimmings, the the the leaves that um come out with the trimming process uh to to use so we produce an extract with those leaves, so but we don't uh uh deplete them um uh to the point where the it it damages the physiology of the the plant.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: So we only use the leftover, so to say.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: With the Japanese setter, which we also use the extract from the leaves because it has um the ability to re-texturize uh the collagen matrix.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we use the the Japanese sedder.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um we only use the leftovers from the production of wood from Japanese sedder.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: So this forest is FSC uh managed, so it it abides by a series of rules that are very strict.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: So uh FSC is the most demanding um forest management protocol in the world.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: So most of the paper that you see nowadays needs to come from from this type of forest.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so we only use the the leaves from the trees that are already being used uh to produce wood according to FSC rules.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it all it's also a very sustainable um uh process.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Finally, we use the so we have a um a partner that produces our spirulina uh in Glaciosa Island.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we use ocean water to produce the spirulina and avoid the consumption of potable water.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: So most uh spirulina productions around the world are usually uh um uh uh very intensive in terms of uh use of potable water.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: So uh in our case, we're able to use the the ocean water uh to to produce the the the spirulina.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it's on uh on a place that is considered by UNESCO uh a biosphere, uh world biosphere.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a very pure and pristine uh place with no pollution.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: That um I think it also makes this ingredient in particular very very special.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Finally, to be to make sure that we're able to use only a very small fraction of this.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we the this technology that we have, the the EPC factor, it's a nanoliposome that reduces by a hundred times the amount of biomass that we need to produce a product.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, this I think is our most notable um achievement in terms of of sustainability and and preserving the biomass that we need uh to produce our our products, especially here in the Azores, of course, which is a place where we live and have our business.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um so using these nano-limposomes, we're able to use only a fraction of what we would usually need to produce this kind of uh um substance.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: So having to use a hundred uh uh um um a hundred times less uh it makes it, of course, very uh a lot more sustainable because we it's a lot a lot less interference in the environment.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: So um this technology, this platform, will also be used for all our plumbing ingredients uh from plants or from uh seaweed, which is where we are focusing right now.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Also because it's very it's a very sustainable uh process and it allows us to grow on laboratory some of the microalgae that we need to produce very interesting ingredients like antioxidants or um um um um pigments or peptides or or the in our case we're focusing on the polysaccharides from the algae, which have the ability to reduce wrinkles and and make the skin produce collagen.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: So uh by producing this in a laboratory, by using like an original uh um uh individual and then replicate it uh indefinitely in the laboratory, uh I think it um it's one step further to to being completely sustainable, which is uh in the future our our our goal.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: And of course we try to improve every day.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I would say um so these are in terms of so far as Igne is concerned, um it's our modest contribution to to make it to making uh the place where we extract the the ingredients more more uh untouched and the whole project more sustainable, of course.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that's very interesting to me because you know, I won't lie, I have I I know of a lot of you know brands, and I think we kind of went through this movement as an industry where we, you know, we were looking at plant-based skincare, right?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: And we were looking at plant-based products and thinking, you know, well, just because they come from a plant, that's all we need, you know, and but instead, really what it was about was, you know, what are we really doing to apply technology to the things that we're extracting from plants and really optimizing them to be suitable for actual human skin.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where you guys are so unique to me because, you know, everything you just said here, Miguel, you know, it's it's really about the technology and the application process, because at the end of the day, you know, you can have a brand that says, well, we use stem cells from plants and everything, but that doesn't mean anything to me as a scientist, as a doctor, because I look at that and I think, well, that's not even compatible with the human body, you know, because you haven't optimized it to be right.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, that's where I think there's a differentiation between plant-based skincare that's based in technology versus plants plant-based skincare that's just more leaning towards, like, you know, you know, the marketing terms like, oh, we're clean, we're this, we're, you know, we're just we're, I don't know.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know what I mean.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like it we went through a whole, you know, buzzword era, I think, in the industry.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I mean, that's that's the whole idea is that you know, we can be plant-based and be still very efficacious, but to reach that efficacy, you have to have an understanding of technology and you have to have an open mind when it comes to true scientific application.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I think that that's very unique that you guys are, you know, really kind of thinking very forward in terms of the use of algae.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I had this very interesting conversation with someone, um, their brand that is a huge, huge algae-based brand.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: And we were talking even after their interview, and I was discussing with them about how um, especially with uh specifically algae, there are numerous, you know, uh uses that we haven't even tapped into yet, you know.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: I like for example, sunscreen, you know, algae have some of the most sophisticated technology within within their cells, you know, when it comes to dealing with sun, when it comes to dealing with things that are very, very harmful, you know.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: So in what a lot of plants do.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: So for us to just, you know, say something is plant-based and not go down that road, is it's almost like we're missing out.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: So like I think that that's that's a really important point to make.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: And for everyone listening who is a huge enthusiast of clean brands, I think it's something to also think about when you're purchasing products, is to find the products.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, for example, with you know, Igne, like this is a brand that I can honestly say, you know, I've been using it, like I said, and I've noticed a difference, you know, just by using it as much as I do.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think with skincare, especially when it's topical, you can tell the difference.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't matter if it's clean or if it's clinical grade or if it's medical grade.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: The idea is you're still applying something topically.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you want to find skincare products that are going to show you those results.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think with a lot of clean brands, we get so caught up in their marketing hype that we forget to analyze them scientifically and think about them scientifically and think to ourselves, well, am I seeing results?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is my skin benefiting from this?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, for example, Miguel, you had mentioned collagen earlier, you know, the modification of the collagen matrix.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's huge, you know.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that by, you know, just understanding that principle on its own and what it takes to do that, you can understand if a if a skincare line, whether it's plant-based or not, is worth your time.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's a very, very complex, you know, set of mechanisms that have to take place for that to occur.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, there is a huge, like, I think in a way, a white space here, right?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, because we have so many options and so many directions that we can go in when it comes to plants, you know, especially like plant species that do come from very, you know, rich areas of the world, geographically speaking, you know, we have a lot of potential there because they do still interact with human skin receptors.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to be able to understand that and you have to be able to say that I'm gonna put my money where the science is, no matter if it's clean beauty or if it's science beauty or if it's clinical beauty.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it we have to put the money where the where the science is.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I really love that you guys are focused on technology, Miguel.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: I really, really love that.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that, you know, that is really what makes for me as a consumer for you guys to stand out because I like the fact that you're plant powered.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I like the fact that you guys have that aspect to you, but I also really like the fact that you have a very solid standing in your technology and in your innovation.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I really hats off to you for that.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's really wonderful.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Now I now I want to talk a little bit about the product because, you know, for everyone listening, um, just so you guys know, you know, I want you to actually experience the line as we're talking about them.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want right now, you can go directly to http um igni-g-n-ae.com and check out the brand right now because as we're speaking, it'll help you out as well, you know, what as we're discussing these things.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: But Miguel, I want to ask you because I know that there are serums in the line.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's a day serum and there's a night serum.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's the wonderful mask and the eye cream.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to learn about these products because, you know, I've been using all of them.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, you know, at night, the night serum is very almost like an oil-based emulsion.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: I would say it's like it's like a very interesting oil because, or serum, because it's very um, you don't need anything else with it, is my point.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, once you wash your face, you can just put this on and it's that's all you need.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that's usually what I do when I apply it at night.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: So can you talk to us about that?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, and and the process of creating that specific product.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: So the rich night serum.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: So technically it's a serum because it's based on an Aqua solution because of bananas, but it has a lot of oil components.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it has the texture of that you would usually expect from um an oil.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: As you know, uh, it's very hard to mix water and oil.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the biggest formulating challenge.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: It took us, it it actually delayed the launch of the product because we wanted to get it right.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's very from from a technological point of view, it's very hard to achieve these combination because we wanted to have the nano the nanoliposomes, which are of course our key ingredient, and the one that, as you are mentioning before, so we have uh um we of course have we develop our own clinical uh testing and to be able to see the the that it it it induces the skin to produce more collagen uh after 24 hours.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it has a very um um uh fat mechanism of action.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we wanted this in the in the serum and of course in in the other products of the range.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we it was very hard to achieve this texture because we wanted to have um from a formulating point of view, um, ignee tries to chemically replicate the structure of our uh sebum.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so our natural sebum is what so if you touch your elbows or your knees or your ankles, you'll see how drier the skin is there.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because those places have less sebaceous glands.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: So this is to show the importance of uh supplementing your skin with something that resembles the the sebum that you that your body naturally loses over time or starts producing less of it uh throughout the years.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: So chemically, all our range tries to to to mimic the the behavior and the structure of the of the human sebum using plant-derived ingredients.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it was very important for us to have the the oil ingredients, the oil component in the rich night serum, because it's essential to have lipids and all these botanical waxes in the in the in the night product because you really want the skin to to uh regenerate and and repair from the damage caused at night, and also because nighttime skin has its own circadian rhythm.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: So at in the nighttime, we're producing more collagen.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we really want to help all those functions, the the uh skin functions that uh uh enable uh the production of uh of collagen.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: So we we want we really needed to have something, you know, like an oil carrier to deliver those those benefits.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: But it was important to have the water extract with the nanosomes.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a huge challenge from a um cosmetic technology uh uh point of view, because uh um it's very complicated to do it that so that it doesn't break.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: And if you will notice, and all the people that have purchased this product, if they look at their bottle, they'll see that it has not separated, so uh, which is something common in this kind of product.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: So um that is the reason why it's a serum, but it feels like an oil.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh yeah, and you don't have to use anything after after because it's supposed to, so all our products, um we always try to make sure that they work by themselves.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: So if someone can only purchase one of our products, we all um from a formulator point of view, at least I want to make sure that they'll be happy with it because they'll have you know, it's an investment.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: So people need to be feel happy with what they have invested in.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm one of the things that concerns me the most still today is you know, the the the idea that someone goes home, they place a lot of uh um expectations on that product, and they come home and it doesn't perform the way they want, and they'll have spent considerable amount of money, and it just doesn't feel serious, you know.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like uh so we always try to, that's why we have a lot of redundancy in the ingredients in each product, and um and each product needs to work by itself.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: So we always try to have like more than two or three ingredients that are designed to achieve the same result, because if the skin doesn't answer or doesn't react to one, uh we hope that it will react to the second or the third.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if they react to all of them, then it's even better because the results will be impressive.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: So each product is designed to work by itself.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: So in case of the rich knight serum, also because of its of its texture and and and and formula, um it you can use it all by yourself all by itself and and and still enjoy the benefits that you know you would have by using multiple uh products.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's it's a very, very nice um, it's a really nice serum because it is very rich.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's also why, you know, that's why I mentioned like I don't use anything under it because I want all of the ingredients and the wonderful, you know, the good stuff in there to really get into my skin and really help, you know, and it does.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: It it really does rejuvenate your skin because if you just wash your, it doesn't matter what cleanser you're using, if you just cleanse your face and then put on that rich night serum at night, and you wake up with a really nice, balanced complexion.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Your pores are not enlarged, you know, you don't have like that flakiness to your skin that we sometimes get, especially you know, in the summer months, you know, people are you running their air conditioner, you know, all day.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: So your water is just getting sucked out of your skin.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: Some stuff like that, you know.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: I've noticed off the bat, you know, immediately you notice like it's helping with those kind of things.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I really think that it's a wonderful product.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that a lot of your products, most of your products are like that, from what I've noticed, is that they're they're kind of like this, they have this multi-use effect, you know, when you're using them.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, for example, the night cream is one of my favorites because I'm very not the night creams, not the eye cream is what is what I meant to say, because I'm very skeptical when it comes to eye creams.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: I am very, very skeptical because I'm Indian by um my heritage and so ethnicity, and I have dark circles.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: So for my dark circles, I get very frustrated, you know, because so many products out here, right, for eye creams, and they're saying you're gonna help with the dark circles, it's gonna really, you know, show you different.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: I've actually noticed a real difference with your eye cream because for me, it's not that my dark my dark circles are not because some people have like the vein problem where your veins are just more prominent.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you have a bluish tint to your dark circles.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Mine are just because I'm exhausted, like I'm a doctor, I work a lot, you know what I mean?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I I literally my case as well.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's you know, I think the that eye cream is so wonderful because it really rejuvenates, you know what I mean?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: The eye area.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: It really makes you feel like someone should press the reset button, you know?
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so those dark circles don't appear to be dark anymore.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: They you look like you've actually rested.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: So many times, you know, even when I'm sleeping and I don't put on that eye cream, I will wake up and I'll still have that same problem, you know, as if I did when I came home from work.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: And to, you know, then I have to cover it up with a concealer or whatever.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's nice to know that the product is actually doing what it's supposed to do in the sense of like, you know, rejuvenating your skin.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, my point here, you know, I'm rambling a lot, I know, but my point is that um the idea of true skin rejuvenation is at the center, I feel like, for most of your products that I've tried because that's where that's what I experience.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like my skin is just being renourished and it's bring being brought back to the place that it's supposed to be when it's rested, when it's nourished, when it's healthy.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: So that is something I really love.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that, you know, my biggest question is like when you are formulating these different types of products, I mean, do you really have to change your ingredients a lot?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you feel like your, you know, your proprietary blend and your um inky list is pretty much the same.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: You just have to tweak little things.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so so it it so it's um it depends on on each product, but I would say that usually you have to be very uh um careful or at least consider the possibility of some ingredients being antagonists.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, there are some that actually coagjuvate the effect of the others, so they enhance permeation, they you know that they they increase the efficacy of others, so there are really some ingredients that are great to enhance the action of peptides, but then other ingredients that are also sometimes found in the same formula are actually not beneficial to the to the peptides because they degrade them.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: So um you have to be very careful.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: In the case of our recent reformulation, recent in the last two years, um it was like a very profound uh reformulation because um nanosomes are are so uh um unstable that we we need, and some enzymes are very unstable in the case of bromoline in the in the cleanser, um, that you have to be very careful and actually experiment a lot, even if it looks like you're doing doing just a small tweak.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but uh if you acquire uh like this star ingredient from some manufacturer, um it might actually so the the main ingredient might look great, but then the it the the the carriers or the you know the the the the other ingredients that are inside the other uh active an active can actually uh um harm the effect of the other uh uh uh actives that you're including in the formula.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not just uh um at least in our case, uh it's it's not just you know uh changing a little bit here and a little bit there.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: When we reformulate, we we it's it's a huge uh um effort because you really have to be mindful of all the interactions, the chemical interactions, some of which are not yet known, because there are millions of different combinations and all of them have been tested.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but yeah, it's not a simple process, and even from a regulatory point of view, as you probably know, Europe is a very um uh complicated place to launch products, and in our case, because we're actually from Europe, so we're even uh um under a bigger scrutiny from the regulatory entities.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um and what even if you change just a small percentage, like even less than one percent or whatever, it still counts as a new formula, so new stability uh testing is required.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh um so the whole process starts again.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, not even from a uh a minor tweaking or like a change in the the in one active might lead to a very uh uh um thorough uh process of of reformulation and and uh you know preparing everything again.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so it even if it's just like one ingredient, you need to be very, very um um uh careful and it it's a lot of work just to change a small percentage.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if that answers that I hope it answers your question.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, it does, it does, it does, absolutely.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I I I appreciate that because it makes sense, you know.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it's very for me, it's very interesting because you guys do use very complicated delivery systems.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that's very interesting as well because from that standpoint, it makes you really think about that point that you brought up about the antagonistic, you know, nature of chemicals.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, I think with delivery systems, I always wonder that same thing is that you know, if you're using five or six different products, how does that really interact with delivery systems like liposomes?
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think you guys have mentioned that you use liposomes, you know, for delivery.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, how does that work?
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, have you noticed it to be a stable way of delivering your ingredients, or do you find that you know it's more optimal for people to just apply it without any other products?
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, so uh it's a it's a very interesting question to I'll I'll try to answer very uh um in a in a in a as clearly as I as I can.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um in the case of um like one of the ingredients that is inside our pending uh um ingredient, the the EPC factor, uh, is uh an antioxidant that we extract from spirulina called phycocyanin.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: So phycocyanin is the pro the protein that gives the bluish color to spirulina.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a very it's a wonder uh wonderful ingredient in vitro, uh, but in vivo tests weren't really that uh stellar because it antioxidants uh very potent antioxidants um are very unstable usually when they come in contact with oxygen or light.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so we had to develop a way to protect this antioxidant until it's released in the in the skin, you know, so inside the skin.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: So um it's it's a great ingredient.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you look it up, if if you look at the research that exists around phycocyanin, it's such impressive there's such impressive results in wound healing, uh uh solar uh UV damage, radius uh sun radiation, pollution, all this, all these uh aggressions to the skin.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's it looks always great in vivo, uh in vitro, sorry, but uh when you look at what happens on with actual skin, you will see that it doesn't happen the same way because phycocyanin loses its efficacy.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to develop this vehicle to be able to preserve all its great properties uh inside a product that can stand like six months or one year inside a bottle, and then still be active the time by the time it reaches your skin.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: And after you open it, uh open the jar, or um, although most of our products are uh airless, um our bottles are airless, but still you need to take to um take all of this into account and really um you know uh anticipate the the life cycle of the product and imagine that that ingredient will stay in a in you know on a on a shelf or in someone's house for a very long time.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you you need to be by you know, for a matter of uh um honesty, you need to to to consider all this and make I mean develop all the efforts that you can to make sure that the ingredient will still be active by the time it reaches someone's uh uh skin and after you open the bottle.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: So this was the only way that we found that was uh um effective enough to to really preserve the the properties of phycocyanin.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: And when we say we talk about phycocyanin, we could also talk about the pigments and the antioxidants that that exist in the um chamellia leaf extract, which we also use in the nanosomes.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there is an antioxidant, a very complicated name, but if people you know bother to look it up, it's called epigalocathin tree gallet.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's the antioxidant that exists in the tea uh uh leaves.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: Umellias are very rich in this as well.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it's also a great antioxidant, very uh works really well on human skin, but again, very volatile and very unstable.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: So nanosomes again were the only way to really encapsulate this and preserve it in the in the carrier uh until the point where it's able to be released on on the customer's skin.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: So all this uh um, you know, so I think this this work that needs to be done.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: So we wanted to use this, we wanted to use these in these ingredients, but so we had to find a to find a way to develop uh um, you know, to make them effective and preserve them.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we didn't go to the laboratory saying, oh, we want some special uh delivery system, or you know, we want to have something that's like very uh um uh science-y or you know, innovative.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: We want to use these ingredients.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: Then we said, okay, but we have a problem because we need to make sure that they remain effective for a long time.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really when we started um looking into ways to maintain their efficacy.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: And we came across this, I would say, very sophisticated uh nanoliposome that is able to preserve and to deliver in an effective way uh the ingredients to the these great ingredients that are very rare into the into the skin and make people happy, of course.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean that's very interesting.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that that's really interesting to to know that you know it takes so much just to keep them stabilized long enough to be able to work, you know.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's really, really I and I think that's really where the future of skin health is heading, is that this idea of you know, we've got to merge biotechnology with, you know, molecular biology, and we have to come to an understanding that, you know, just because a molecule is like a really great antioxidant doesn't mean that it's going to survive long enough to do its job, you know, by the time that it gets there.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I I that's very interesting.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for explaining that.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I want to ask you though, one thing, you know, I have one more question for you, and that's really because you had brought up collagen, and I know one of your best-selling products is your body oil, you know, and I think that with the summer months approaching, I mean, we're already here, you know, it's June.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what is one of the things that you wanted to have in that body oil that you thought was essential for good body care?
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because right now I think the whole industry is booming with new body care products.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think body care in general, from the skincare standpoint, is coming to the forefront more than it ever has.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so it makes me very interested to see what your approach was with that oil.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: So when I was formulating the body oil, uh, I was it was uh the we never uh it wasn't until very recently that we considered doing a body product.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we were looking at other you know oils that we we like and and enjoy.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: And looking at the ingredients of body products, they always feel like they're you know of less lesser quality, like cheaper, if you if you don't mind me being so blunt.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: So you always look at the INCI list and you see you know a lot of ingredients that are really not that good, but you find them a lot in body products because people they're willing to invest more in the face than in the in the body.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I said what I said to myself was okay, if we're gonna do a body product, it needs to be as good as you know, uh as I would want it to be for the face.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why you see a lot of ingredients there that are usually found in in body products like bacusio, which is one of the key ingredients.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you don't find that in body products very often.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, I haven't found it in in other uh uh uh uh other in any other products it doesn't mean that they don't exist but uh at least during our research I can find it we have rose hip oil um we have uh Shia seed oil we have uh 12 of again 12 of uh uh camellia japonica seed oil cold pressed seed oil so um you have a lot of ingredients there that you only expect in a in a high-end facial oil so I wanted that because the physiology is the same so I said it doesn't make sense to have something uh uh um you know inferior for your body so we develop a a very I think a very interesting formulation uh I think one or two months after after having launched in the US we won the the best body product for L Magazine in their green beauty star awards um and it feels very silky also which I mean as a man um I don't like you know those sticky products that for the for the body especially oils because then you cannot put uh you know pants afterwards or put on a shirt because it will stick to your uh to your body I mean women also don't like that but men aren't as used to applying body products so for them it's it's especially uncomfortable so and in my case uh I I you know it was actually a reason not to use any body products it was the you know the time it takes to to to be able to put you know a shirt afterwards because I don't like the feeling of of of having it you know uh glue into your uh uh uh skin so um I wanted to have a you know a dry oil that was was still elegant and able to deliver that uh um nourishing effect and and I mean of course make your skin perform its its uh um uh usual physiological uh functions so uh produce collagen keratin uh uh maintain lipid barrier uh um you know uh um prevent transepidermal water loss um all in a product that was fit for retail so the you know like not like a spa product although it was influenced by our spa experience because of the and you can tell that by the scent that replicates the scent of Japanese sadders from the Azores uh I wanted something that was easy to to apply that was comfortable that would not you know make people not want to use it because of the way it felt but also that had the same quality that you would expect in a very good facial oil.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the result was very very uh interesting I think that that was also the reason why Al uh gave us the award and it's that's why I think it sells very well also uh around the world and the in the US in particular I love that no I think you made a really great point about the body oil thing I mean even as a woman I can agree with you I hate that stickiness of oils I really really hate it and I think it you know especially in the summer when it's already so hot you don't want that you know so that's really nice and I love that you have approached it from that per that perspective of you know it's the same amount of just uh I guess elegance and just sophistication as a as a facial product you know and that's really where I think the body care industry should be headed anyways.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know I've been saying this for a while now where you know I have brands come on all the time and they have body care lines as well you know and I think to myself well how much time have you put into your body cream you know compared to your facial cream and so you know it always crosses my mind.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really nice to hear that you did approach it from that standpoint because I mean I'm gonna be honest you know there's a lot of things that we're missing out on when it comes to body care.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know I I think there's huge gaps in the industry when it comes to body care and good products and you know and the amount of difference that they can make you know I know people that have serious skin conditions you know we all know about psoriasis we all know about you know all of these different conditions that are cause eruptions all over your body it's not just your face and I think you know to ignore that whole niche you know as a brand is kind of it's it's not only you you're not only missing out as a brand to get new customers but you're also not really serving your customers I think if you don't have at least one good body care product in your line.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I I like that you have that and I I really um and I commend you for really putting thought into it.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's really really wonderful.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: And also for keeping men in mind I like that the male consumer yeah but I'm biased so yeah you were biased.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: No but I mean honestly it's important because I I recently launched a series you know just for just it it's literally I called it men's Monday because I feel like we're running into this wall so much with men's um with reaching men you know what I mean in terms of like products whether that's facial products whether body products it doesn't matter like you know we're running into a wall because you know everyone wants to say that just because I made something gender neutral men are going to like it but it's really about being able to speak to things that men prefer.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean and understanding the male consumer.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I like that you brought that point up.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a really important thing to understand as a as a you know industry at large I think especially for any of the you know executives that might be listening in, you know, if you're really thinking to reach that male consumer I mean I think Miguel really kind of nailed it here, you know, with what you said which was you know men have specific things that they look for just like women do you know women are always looking for things like for example scent is huge for us I can tell you you know uh with our body care.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: So if you keep things in mind like that, I mean you reach such a wider audience you know and it's really about you know reaching that audience because I mean skincare is healthcare in a lot of ways.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I really really appreciate that you have done that and I just I I love the line.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: I really really love the line.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: So great job I would just like Ect if if I may because you you mentioned something that is very at least for me on a personal level very important that so because uh skincare especially for the body is also health care because and when you said that um there's something that people usually don't uh realize but some of and this is becoming increasingly uh uh uh common so like some bacteria you know entering your body and if you don't uh because we tend to neglect the the the our the skin of our body and it's actually an entry point for some bacteria or fungi or you know uh stuff that we don't want uh uh to have so if you don't make sure that your the that the skin of your body and like your feet or your legs uh it's very easy for bacteria to enter uh you know through channels on those uh regions of your body so if you don't have a healthy skin and healthy uh uh uh skin means hydrated nourished uh uh skin you know so able to maintain the the barrier function um you might actually so most of the most of the times people who need to be hospitalized with uh uh with you know some kinds of bacteria in uh in their legs and it's something's like it's something that was completely avoidable like um uh you know fungi or or um like uh um decam that uh decamation uh of your skin so on your feet or on your legs so this is you know it's actually as you mentioned it's a it's a matter of health so even if it's not with our body oil just you know people need to to always remember to to maintain proper hydration levels and to to look at you know how how healthy this their the skin on their uh feet or legs is because um you know it might actually later when our immune system is is not as strong as it used to be um it might be an entry point for something nasty you know to enter our organism sorry no you're you're making a really good point and I think that that's um it's actually very valid you know because at the end of the day you know we don't think about the body and I think that the what you had said about bacteria and fungal infections is very very uh common it's something we see a lot of and we don't really talk about it you know sometimes you might think that you know you have like acne occurring on your body for example your shoulders or your back or wherever especially in crevices like you know uh areas that don't see a lot of you know oxygen exposure during the day and you might assume that it's just acne like you would see on your face but sometimes it's more more than that you know it might be have a fungal cause it might have a more serious bacterial cause behind it you know it's really important to acknowledge that so I agree with you I think it's really important to be mindful of that and to really actually you know look for products that are aimed at really caring for your body again you know you can't ignore it it's skin you know skin is everywhere it's it's you don't just have skin on your face you have it everywhere and that's where I I don't understand you know some I sit there sometimes and I wonder to myself you know why are brands ignoring this huge niche sometimes you know I don't think we are now but we were for a very long time you know just ignoring the body care sector and it was very confusing you know because like I said you know exfoliation you need that everywhere you know so now what do we see?
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: We see a lot of brands coming out with AHA exfoliating body washes I see that all the time you know so I'm happy to see that but I think a lot more can be done and I think a lot more education actually is needed as well.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah absolutely Miguel thank you so much this has been so lovely and I really enjoyed talking to uh with you and um just learning from you and I really love Igne I think it's a beautiful line and for everyone listening you know I I mean it you know I've been using it for over I think a month and a half now I believe I it's been a while and I've loved every time I've used it you know especially on the days where my skin looks very tired looks very exhausted.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I like I say I love the night you know the night rich serum because it really really helps so I I really encourage everybody you know check it out if you're looking for a new um you know go-to product this is a great line to pick from so yeah check it out and I will link everything in the concept art and if you guys have any questions at all please don't hesitate to reach out to us we are always here and if you have any questions at all for Miguel's team let us know we'll pass along the message but thank you so much again Miguel this has been so wonderful.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's such a privilege to to to be able to to speak to you and you know uh deserving your your your attention and time and finally you know being a uh uh a consumer of the podcast and now having the opportunity to to speak to you it's such a pleasure and and thank you for for having us it was thank you it was thank you so much no it's truly been an honor thank you so much and that means the world to me thank you so much and again everyone listening you know let us know what you think and I I will be back next time thank you so much hey guys so I hope you love that episode please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform we are available on so many different platforms so wherever it is that you're tuning in just go hit subscribe you will be immediately notified when we publish new episodes this way you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts brand founders industry leaders authors all the wonderful people that we host and that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
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• 56:52
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