Latest / Early Edition with Ryan Bridge / Harry Clatworthy: Te Mata Law Barrister on the changes to the Marine and Coastal Area Act

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Harry Clatworthy: Te Mata Law Barrister on the changes to the Marine and Coastal Area Act · Early Edition with Ryan Bridge

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: We're back in the hot waters of the foreshore and
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: seabed debate. The government says it'll move ahead with changes
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: to the Marine and Coastal Areas Acts as part of
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: the coalition deal it has with New Zealand. First, we've
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: spoken about this before. It follows the Supreme Court ruling
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: which basically throughout the proposed changes in December last year.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Harry Clatworthy is a barrister at Tamata Law and represented
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: NATI to with his foreshore and seabed claim at the
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: High Court. And he's with me now, Hi, Harry, good going, yeah, good,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: thank you. This is this is all about defining customary title,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: isn't it. Can you just touch the chase with us?
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: What exactly is going on here?
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: It is about defining customary title. Essentially, what the government
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: has done through his amendments is make it harder for
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: marty to have their customery title recognized through the courts.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: And they're going to make sure that that stays. It
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: stays that way, basically, aren't they.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: That's the plan. This new amendment will basically make the
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: test harder for marti groups, particularly marti groups who who
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: have areas of interest that are in high areas of
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: third party use, so Auckland Totonger areas with his development,
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: and there's a lot of third parties using their area.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: They're basically trying to make it so they don't pass
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: the test to have customary title or customer rights awarded
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: in those areas.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Because you had to prove that you had continuous and
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: exclusive use of an area since eighteen forty, basically didn't you.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: That was what Key brought in, and so that courts
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: softened that slightly, which is what this government's got a
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: problem with.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: No, so that still has to be proved. So continuous
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: use and occupation without substantial interruption since eighteen forty, and
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: really what that actually means is, you know, a massive
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: legal gray area. Of course every group, there's of course
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: some interruption to the use of the ocean by any group.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: What this new amendment has done is basically make it
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: easier for the Crown to prove substantial interruption. So there's
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: a lower bar for there to be substantial interruption, which
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: basically extinguishes the customary title.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: How many actual cases do you think we could be affected?
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: How many claims?
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: It's hard to say. There's about two hundred claims out there,
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: and so far nearly all of them have been successful. However,
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: the areas in the really high developed parts of the
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: country are yet to go all the way through Farnga
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: days about halfway through, so I would say at least
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: at least fifty or more are going to be affected
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: by this, if not more. All of them will be affected,
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: and all apart from the seven that have already been confirmed,
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: so they'll be all right, but the rest of them
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: are to have to either be reheard or meet this
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: new and updated test. But that's hard to say before
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: we get some decisions from judges, because at the end
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: of the day, they're the one to interpret the law.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Harry, what do you get if you can prove customer title?
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: What does that actually mean? Can you go and use
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: the foreshore and cbit and no one else uses it?
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: What does it mean?
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: No? No, no, So look, at the end of the day,
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: as Mardi, we say, you don't get, you don't get
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: a whole hell of a lot. There's a big misconception
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: and a lot of public fear around Mary going to
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: stop people going to the beaches. They're going to, you know,
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: basically cut off that the ability of non MARDI to
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: use them Waner, which completely isn't true. There's all navigation
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: access and fishing is completely protected under MACA. Basically, what
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: groups have the ability to do is turn down resource
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: management consents. However, there's a big exception for accommodated activity,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: which is pretty much everything except basically private resource consents
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: in the area. Malory had the ability to veto those.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Fascinating Harry, thank you, Thank you for that. Appreciate you
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: coming on the show this morning. It's Harry Clatworthy, barrister
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: at Tamata Law.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: For more from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Listen live to News Talks it'd be from five am weekdays,
• 4:21
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