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Ep. 108: And He Loves You Very Much · We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: To the We Are More Pod cast. My name is Alyssa. And my
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: name is Bree. We're two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism. We believe
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach his word. And apparently, that's controversial. Get comfy.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Good morning. Happy Sunday morning.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: For... Well, it's not Sunday for them.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: For us, it is. It's Thursday for them. Happy Thursday morning to you and Sunday to us. For us,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: it's Mother's Day. So happy Mother's Day to those of you who celebrate.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: To all who celebrate,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: happy Mother's Day. And also late because, again, for you, it's Thursday.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Happy belated Mother's Day to you and yours.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: To all of the... Everyone out there.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Everyone who has a maternal instinct. There you go. Love it. There you go. I'm not a mother.
• 1:06
  You're a tersh. I'm... I have so many eggs.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: We like to call Brianna the tertiary parent because we live together and I have kids and she is just extra parent because she can do whatever she needs to do.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Her authority is as much as mine. But what's awesome is I'm also not the parent either. So I can take them and fill them full of sugar and run away.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: You say that, but then they just come in your room. That's true. So it's really a you problem.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: It's really a me problem. We can do
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: that with our nephew. That's true. I always told my brother because he would do that with my daughter who's quite a bit older. And I was like, when you have kids, when you have kids, you're in big trouble. So as our nephew gets older, Brandon, prepare yourself.
• 2:02
  You're in big trouble.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: There's a book. It's a new book that just came out from Brazos Press. I think it's it's about seeing god as a maternal figure Mhmm. As well. And I'd love to do an episode on that sometime.
• 2:16
  Yeah. Should've done that for Mother's Day.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Well, again, it's it's not Mother's Day for them. They're fine. They're okay. Whatever. We should do that.
• 2:23
  We should. But we'd have to read the book first. Yeah. We do. That is a cool part of the bible that god very often compares himself to, like, a mother.
• 2:36
  You don't actually see god... He... Obviously, the bible calls god father often. But when it comes to stories in and of themselves, God isn't often comparing himself to fathers. More often, he's saying, look at me.
• 2:50
  I'm like a mother. I have a maternal instinct. I care for you in this way.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: That's actually a lot of what the book that we talked about, Women and the Gender of God, deals with. It... That's a great book. But boy, oh, boy,
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: is it academic. I just recommended that to someone on our Instagram. I was like, oh, if you like that book, you'll also like this book. But I do recommend it on audio Mhmm. Because it is very technical.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's very heavy. I I love books like that because it... I think it does deepen your faith.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: And it teaches you things that you're just never gonna hear. Like, how often do you hear from the pulpit, hey, god called himself a
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: mother. Mhmm.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Never. Even on Mother's Day, you're never gonna hear that. You guys all went to church on Mother's Day, and you heard about Mary, who's an amazing figure.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Queen of the mothers, some might say. But I
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: think it... It's deeper. There's more there. Mhmm. But that messes with the patriarchy sense of things.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: We don't wanna dive too deep. We just wanna make you feel appreciated, give you a small token, and send you on your way in
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: your floral dresses. Have a plant and leaf. Today, though, we wanted to talk about a little bit of a lighter topic because we've been doing some heavy stuff lately. And just talk about kind of the love of God.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: I think it's especially hard to see right now in the climate of the world today. And you know what? We have a lot of drama in the world today. That doesn't mean they had a... Didn't have a lot of drama back then.
• 4:27
  Mhmm. But in today's culture, there's so much hate associated with Christianity and with God. And the idea that maybe maybe that's not accurate, I think we should talk about.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: I actually real quick wanna read a couple of TikTok comments because I think this is really important to see exactly what you're saying, like how people see God. Mhmm. I posted a video a couple of days ago, and it just said, what if God loved you as much as you love your favorite person in the world? And I thought it was an upper. Yeah.
• 5:05
  I was like, okay. This is good. Like, what
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: if god loves you so much? Daily dose of woo woo inspiration.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: But no. We did get some comments that were like, woo hoo. But then we also got things that said that would literally change absolutely nothing. That's a really big what if. Somebody said, literally not at all.
• 5:31
  I've spent a majority of my years on this earth believing God loved me that much. And yet saw nothing changed since I drifted away as if it were never there. Somebody else said, what if you found out this flying spaghetti monster thinks you're kind of cool and wants to hang out and be part of your life?
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: Actually, what the heck? That sounds amazing. Someone said,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: it tells me that god doesn't know what love is. Somebody said, what if monkeys fly out of my butt? Someone said, god doesn't protect abused children. Someone said, if god exists, he's gonna have to beg for my forgiveness. And that was the majority of comments on that post.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: And I think that's what happens when you have the rest of the world using God's name in
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: vain. Mhmm.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: And the church often just says, don't say OMG. Mhmm. Right? That means don't take his name in vain. But actually, using God's name in vain means slapping God's name onto heinous, awful acts that you're doing.
• 6:36
  Mhmm. And saying, this is for my God. This is for religion.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Right. Yeah. When you put people in concentration camps.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: When you kick people out of the country and send them to random countries they aren't even from. Things like that that are happening in our world today. And there's so much more, obviously, but that's just some examples.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Or being an awful, terrible, you know, pedophile and then claiming you're king of the Christians.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: Right. Exactly. Last week... I just have to bring this up because you can't not. Last week, we talked about the golden calf.
• 7:11
  Yeah. Okay. Was it last week? The week before? I think it was last week.
• 7:16
  And if you didn't listen or you don't know the story, basically, early on in Genesis. Right?
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. When the Israelites left Egypt. When Moses was up on the mountain getting the 10 commandments, this is what happened.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And so Aaron was down with the Israelites. The Israelites wanted basically something that they could worship not in place of God, but as a visual part of God. We talked about the story. So if you want more of the story, listen to last week's episode.
• 7:46
  But they gave Aaron all of their gold, and he melted it down, and they molded it into the golden calf. And this week, our horrible president, Donald Trump, had a golden statue of himself put up in a park. It's like a 12 freaking foot statue. And they had a pastor out there dedicating it and posted and was like, this is... He put about it, like, how...
• 8:14
  What an honor it was to be there and see it and blah blah blah. And then at the end was like, and also this isn't a golden calf. We only worship the Lord. I was like, just because you say it's not the golden calf doesn't mean it's not exactly the golden calf. That's like looking
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: at a shoe and saying, just because this isn't a shoe Right.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: You can't just decide things mean different things.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's not how that works. Which is often how the Christian people are trying... And we've done... Talked about this before, but redefine love Right.
• 8:43
  And redefine so many things.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Christians say this all the time. I love you so much. I can't let you sin. Therefore, I'm gonna point out all of your sins.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: This is how I show my love. Mhmm. Okay. Just because you call that love Mhmm. Does not mean that that's love.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: Right. We've talked about that. But so today, we're gonna talk about God's love and Jesus' love and what that looks like. Because if you're looking at the way the Christian church says love exists, it sucks. Yeah.
• 9:18
  It's awful. It is awful. And I don't want it. But that's not how God and Jesus showed their love. It's not how the Holy Spirit is showing you God's love every single day.
• 9:31
  So we're gonna look at that and maybe maybe just encourage you a little bit today so that you don't feel so down. Because sometimes, man, you watch the news and you feel really down.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I've had to take a step away from TikTok and the news and all of that because I get so anxious Mhmm. And so depressed.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So here's a little sunshine. I hope. I hope.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: Sunshine, Holly Jackson.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Now a lot of us were taught as kids, especially... Like, Brie and I come from a Baptist background. And the big thing with the Baptist is you are so lucky that God would even want you. You are awful. You are so sinful.
• 10:08
  You are wicked. You are disgusting, and you're so lucky that God ever even looked at you. But that's not from God. That's from people who want you to feel awful about yourself so you keep coming to church. God instead is loving.
• 10:28
  And I think a lot of people... Even the people that leave church, not everybody, but I think a lot of the people that leave church still want that relationship with Jesus. They still want that relationship with God. But religion has taught them that faith is exhausting. Faith makes you feel awful about yourself.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Religion has taught people that faith is a rule book, and there's a list of things that you have to check off. So if you're not going to church every Sunday, your faith doesn't exist. If you're not submissive in marriage or married at all, your faith doesn't exist. If you are listening to a certain kind of music or if you drink alcohol or if you associate with non Christian people, your faith isn't strong enough and it's not real. And unfortunately, all of those things are false.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No. Probably fortunately. Fortunately, they're false.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: I think it'd be a lot... In some respect, it would be a lot easier Yeah. If there was just a list of rules. Mhmm. And that's how you work your way into heaven.
• 11:34
  But that's not true. Faith is a lot more abstract.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: It makes us comfortable. Think of work. Your job has a employee handbook, for instance. I wish mine did. Most jobs do.
• 11:49
  And it tells you, okay, You do this. We like you. You do this. You get fired. Right?
• 11:55
  There's a black and white there. And that makes us comfortable.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: I know what will happen if I do this thing. But life isn't that way, and faith isn't that way. There isn't a black and white. There's a spectrum of things. And you see that throughout the Bible as rules change and shift.
• 12:13
  There's also...
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: You can see that in all of the different flavors of religion out there. And everybody is thinking they're doing it the right way. Yep. Yeah. And we all...
• 12:24
  I think we've said this before, but
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of a lot of the flavors of Christianity wanna go to war with each other over silly little things because they think they're a 100% right on everything. And it's important to say God's expectations aren't the same for you as they are for me.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: Because we're two different people.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: And that is a loving God.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. I was talking about this with a friend the other day. We're so concentrated on our Christianity, or she was Catholic. So she's so focused on her Catholicism. But we forget that Jesus was a Jew.
• 12:57
  Mhmm. Jesus was a Jew. Yeah. So how do we mix the Jewish faith with our faith, with Catholicism, with all of that? How can we take little pieces of all of these religions and make our faith more flavorful.
• 13:13
  Mhmm.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Well, our history... Right. Our history all comes up to the same point.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: We don't like to think about that. We like to pretend our history isn't Catholic history. Our history isn't Jewish history. But it is. Mhmm.
• 13:27
  And so we can't exist in a bubble.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Nope. Works. No. Sorry. Yeah.
• 13:31
  And that is gonna wreck your brain.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: You're gonna be... Especially if you grew up in the types of churches that we did where it was like, don't ever look out of the bubble. Never look out of the bubble. Never explore anything else, even within other Christian sects. Woah.
• 13:52
  Because that could make you stumble.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Don't ever look at anything else. Mhmm. But you should. Mhmm.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: And if your church is telling you not to look out, maybe it's not the right place
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: to be. Maybe that's a little controlling. Mhmm. Now I think it's important to look at Jesus when it comes to this loving concept. Because like we said, a lot of Christians today try and redefine love.
• 14:18
  And they're combative. They're difficult to be around. I'm thinking, like, the average stereotype of a Christian man right now. Right? He's combative.
• 14:30
  He's
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: patriarchal. He has a chip on his
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: shoulder. Exactly. Not an easy person to be around. Not someone you'd wanna spend any amount of time with. Especially if you've deconstructed your faith.
• 14:44
  Oh, yeah. Then you're running the other direction. But let's compare that to Jesus and who Jesus was. Jesus was easy to be Should I not pause there? I didn't mean like that.
• 14:57
  Say that again. Jesus was easy to be around. People instinctively and intentionally moved towards Jesus.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Think about the most intoxicating person
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: In the room, like the pack... Popular? The popular person that people gravitate towards. That was Jesus.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. People wanted to be in his space. Not just because he could do something for them, but because he was that magnetic personality. Radiating
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: love Mhmm.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Compassion, understanding. Yeah. Because you all know that person. Think of that person in your head. You probably have someone in your life.
• 15:33
  It's me. And you just want to be around them. You feel good when you spend time with them. They're not tearing you down. They're building you up.
• 15:46
  Right. And this was true of everyone. It wasn't Jesus only went to the men and wanted to hang out with them. Children gravitated towards him. Women did.
• 15:57
  Social outcasts, the sick. People from other countries who wouldn't have been welcomed by the Jewish people.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: So much so that the people who hated him noticed him too.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Everyone wanted to be around Jesus. And if we are supposed to be reflective of him, and we
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: are Mhmm.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Then that's who we should be too. Now I'm not saying that's an easy thing to do. Okay? I am not a social person. I get it.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: But
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: for the moments that I am social, I want people to feel that with me. I want people to feel so safe and so cared for. And you don't have to be an extrovert Mhmm.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: In that moment. Just as long as you don't sit there and stew in hate. If people do approach you, you respond in kindness. You don't have to be an extrovert. Mhmm.
• 16:53
  Just as long as in whatever place you are in, you're radiating love and acceptance. Mhmm. You don't have to be someone you're not.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Right. Remember that God made you as you are. That's something I've really had to come to terms with because the church likes extroverts. Mhmm. They want you to go stand on the street corner with your sign and be like, Jesus.
• 17:11
  And I am not that. God made you as you are. God made you an introvert, and that's fine. But, yeah, when you have the opportunity, whatever people God places in your path, be love. Be kindness.
• 17:28
  Be acceptance. And frankly, whatever sins you think that person has, it's not your business.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Let your little light shine. I also see in this... The churches that we have been involved in, there's a stigma against people that look different. Mhmm.
• 17:48
  So people who have colorful hair or tattoos or piercings. A lot of people in those spaces tend to steer away from them. Mhmm. But what if we looked at those people with kind eyes Mhmm. And said, hello, friend.
• 18:03
  Mhmm. Hi, friend. Because you're a child of God in the same way that I'm a child of God, and that's all that matters. Mhmm.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: It's amazing to me how much people focus on the negative parts of the bible and act like this is how we're supposed to be. Because you'll see people focus on church discipline all the time. I... The church discipline thing. If you've ever been to a church that practices that...
• 18:33
  And I'm not saying that these things have no part in anything, but they're so small. Jesus spent 99.999999% of his time loving and caring for others. And he spent one singular moment flipping a table. K? Your life shouldn't be flipping the tables.
• 18:52
  Your life should be spent loving. And occasionally, if absolutely necessary, you can
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: flip a table. And know that Jesus and God... God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit will tell you when it's time to flip that table.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: It's not your decision to go and wreck someone's display Mhmm. You know, at a craft show. Don't do that. Don't do that.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: A couple of examples of Jesus being this way are in Mark, Mark 10. He says, let the little children come to me. And the scenario here is the kids were already trying to come to Jesus, and the disciples were stopping them because they were like, no, no, no, no. This is a holy man.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Yes. Also, this isn't toddler time. And
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: Jesus was like, no. Let them come. I want them. They are my children, and I love them.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Think about that. He loves them. Every single one of them. Because he's God too. He's God and human at this point.
• 19:54
  He knows each of their names. Mhmm. He knows what they all like.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: This is why I thought it would be cooler to be a child in heaven. I like... In our parents' church, they were saying how at the beginning of each service, they have all the kids come up to the front before they go into their little church. And I really like the idea of that being involved in not just separating them and saying, go be quiet in your own little room, but like, we embrace you. We want you here.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Because Jesus wanted them here. Mhmm. They aren't an inconvenience. None of God's children are an inconvenience.
• 20:26
  Yeah. And we do treat them like that. If someone from the LGBTQ community comes into a church, we treat it like an inconvenience. If a strong woman comes in, we treat it like an inconvenience. But it's not.
• 20:43
  They are all equally loved as children of God and should be equally welcome in that space.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. We say this all the time, but think about the person you hate the most.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Jesus died on the cross
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: for them. Which can be a struggle.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Which can be a struggle.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: But here we are. Jesus Jesus was incredible on a level that most of us will never get to. Okay? Like, I'm not sitting here saying all. All of Jesus.
• 21:11
  Jesus ate with people that hated him. He walked with people. He listened to them. He went to the people who were diseased and untouchable and spent time with them. And he gave them back dignity.
• 21:28
  He gave them love and care in a way that most of us... We just can't replicate. But I think you could get 60% of the way there if you try real hard.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. And what would happen if you actually tried? Right. If you tried to show even a glimmer of the compassion and kindness that Jesus did. Mhmm.
• 21:51
  And that is what he's asking us to do. He's asking... When he went back up to heaven, he said, be my hands and feet. Mhmm. I don't think he actually said that.
• 22:00
  Are supposed to move in the way that he moved. And I think the churches of today Mhmm. Forget that.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. If we are supposed to bring heaven down, you hear that a lot in churches. Oh, I want earth to be like heaven is. And we're never gonna get all the way there until Jesus comes back. But if that's what we're trying to do...
• 22:26
  Heaven's nice. Right? It doesn't suck. And right now I'm looking at the world, and I'm like, if that's heaven, I don't want it. So instead of being that, be Jesus.
• 22:42
  Love God, love others. Your two greatest commandments.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. That's it. That's all you've gotta do. Mhmm.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: The rest of it can fall by the wayside. If you do those things, you will get to heaven and God will say, great job.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Yep. Love like Jesus did. Not like how you have decided to define love. And it's not just going and serving in a soup kitchen with your small group once a
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: year. Mhmm.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: It's serving people every day of the year. Mhmm. In whatever way that you can. I'm not saying you have to go and volunteer every second of the day. Right.
• 23:17
  I mean, if you can, good on you. I can't. I have a job and a life, and I need sleep. But in any small way that you can serve the people around you, do it. Mhmm.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm thinking of... I'm sure you guys all know somebody that that exemplifies this, but I'm thinking of our neighbor. Anytime anybody in the neighborhood needs anything, he jumps in. He helped cut one of our tree branches one time. He plows the road.
• 23:45
  Our other neighbor needed help because they delivered accidentally a pool to
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: our house. It's really unfortunate. We couldn't cut the pool.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: He came over and helped them move it. But there's always that person like that that will do for others. Mhmm. That's an example to me of how Jesus lived his life. Doing for others, even in the little moments, the little things.
• 24:05
  He came over
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: and helped me with my car battery one time. Right.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: Which was great. And that's noticeable to people. That's how people will say, I want to be that or I want to be around that. Mhmm. That's important.
• 24:21
  Now I think it's also important to remember that God meets you where you are. We have all these high expectations. I'm not trying to say, like Be amazing. Be Jesus every moment of your day because that's exhausting. Try.
• 24:34
  Do your best. And I think it will make your life better too. But also remember that God meets you where you are, wherever you are. And we've talked about several stories recently, and I'm not gonna go super, super deeply into each of them. But we talked about Hagar, who is in the story of Abraham and Sarah.
• 24:56
  She was the slave woman who had his first son and then was basically tossed aside. We just did an episode on her. Feel free to listen to that one as well. But where she is in life is marginalized, used, abandoned. And yet when she's thrown out into the desert, God comes to her.
• 25:20
  And she is the first person to name God.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: And this is Old Testament God. Mhmm. This is what we often think of as big angry God. Mhmm.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: And yet he shows up for her.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: She calls him Elroy. And that translates to the God who sees me. Because despite the horror that was her life, God still showed up. God was still there Mhmm. Wherever she was.
• 25:49
  Another example is Elijah. Now, I think we talked last week about Elisha. We did. Big old Baldi. I just...
• 25:59
  Was it necessary to name these two men so similar to me?
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Well, think about how many freaking Marys there are. True. Get more creative.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: But Elijah is in first Kings. And basically, he's in a situation where he's emotionally... He's done. Right? He's been through a lot.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Which we all get to that point.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Right. And so many of us, when we get to that point, we're like, god, forget you. This is your fault.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: Yes. I have hit rock bottom and found a shovel. What the heck?
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And that's where he's at. He's at the end. He is done. And even though he's at that point...
• 26:42
  And God's probably sitting up in heaven. I'm... I've been here with you the whole time. You don't need to be exhausted. God's not judging him.
• 26:48
  He's not like, you should have better faith. Yeah. Hey, you're at the beginning of a trial. No. God says, rest.
• 26:58
  He provides food. He says, take a break. Yeah. I'm here with you. I know you're human.
• 27:04
  I made you this way. He doesn't say try harder or pray more, which is so often the advice of Christian people.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Do better. I feel like a lot of times, if you see someone struggling in the quote unquote Christian faith, it's... You're right. The advice is, well, have you tried reading your Bible? Have you tried praying more?
• 27:28
  Have you tried going to church more? Have you tried, in some way, earning Mhmm. God's love? Yes. And you don't have to earn it.
• 27:36
  It's there. You just have to rest in it.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. I think of this in the context of mental health within the church. And I struggle a lot with my mental health. I've been in therapy for absolutely ever.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: And often when I see other people... I... This is not something that I have personally had too much experience with, thankfully. But often when I see other people in the church going to therapy, taking mental health medications, They'll start with Christian therapy, which is usually Counseling. Yeah.
• 28:06
  Sitting with your pastor who has one class worth of therapy experience and being told, read your bible more. Pray more. But that's not what god does with Elijah here. He says, rest, eat, take care of yourself, take a break, pause, do everything you can do. Now Elijah didn't have access to a therapist or mental health medications.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: So take God's advice here. When you are struggling, I'm not saying that there isn't comfort in reading your bible and praying. Do those things too Mhmm. When you can, when you have the mental capacity to do it. But also take care of yourself.
• 28:48
  I
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: have been in those spaces where I feel like I have hit rock bottom. Mhmm. I am depressed. I don't know where to go from here. And there was a time in my life where I was like, yes.
• 29:00
  I I just need to read the Bible more.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: So I opened up... I thought it was a magic Bible. Mhmm. You know? You open up to a random passage.
• 29:07
  Mhmm. And it was something that I did not need in that moment. I was like, God, I prayed to you to give me something inspiring and uplifting. And I opened up my magic bible, and now I'm reading about something ridiculous and stupid. And then I got even more angry at God.
• 29:24
  Yeah. Because that's not how you use God. No. That's not how you use But I think in those moments, sometimes you have to recognize that what you need is not to open up your Bible and read random nonsense. Sometimes it's just to rest.
• 29:38
  Mhmm.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: And sometimes it's a therapist. Yeah. And sometimes it's medications. And sometimes it's... There's a whole spectrum of things available to you that God does not demonize.
• 29:49
  No. Because he
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: put those people who invented those things on this planet for a reason.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: If he didn't want it, he wouldn't have done it.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Right. Care for yourself. Love yourself the way that God loves you. You are allowed to. Can I just?
• 30:05
  I give you permission. God gives you permission. Love yourself the way God loves you. We had someone say on one of our posts the other day, self love isn't in the Bible. But it is.
• 30:18
  Because God says, love your neighbor as yourself. Therefore, you must be loving yourself.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: That therefore is me. But it's implied. Right? And if God loves you so much and you're supposed to be trying to be like God and Jesus and Jesus loved you so, so, so much, you need to love you that much. Not in a prideful way.
• 30:39
  Although it's okay to be proud of yourself.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Heck yeah.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying don't be proud of yourself. Be proud of the things that you do.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: I think I am a jerk in that way.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Well, you gotta do what you gotta do.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Be you, Brie. I just got a new job. And my brother came up to me. I was telling him about it. And he's like, I'm
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: so proud of you. And I was like, oh, I know. That's how my daughter is. I've been really intentional about always telling her, you're so beautiful, you're so smart, you're so kind, because the world will knock her down at some point. It just does.
• 31:14
  And so I want her to know that she has a base in me of you are amazing. So now when you tell her you're beautiful or you're smart and you're kind, she either goes, I know. Or she'll say, I agree.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that's important. Side note, really off track here, but so often women are taught if you're given a compliment, you have to downplay it.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Like, oh, you like this shirt? I got it for free.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: Or I've had this for forever. Or you think I'm pretty? No. It's just my makeup. But what if we just accepted the compliment Mhmm.
• 31:47
  And said, thank you so much. Mhmm.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: I agree. And let that make you
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: feel good about yourself. Mhmm. And then also build up the other person.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Yeah. So those are just a couple of examples of God being with people. And just a good verse, if you are feeling that today, is Psalms thirty four eighteen. It says, the Lord is near to the brokenhearted.
• 32:11
  So when you are hurting, you don't have to pretend. When you are in pain, you don't have to pretend. When you're exhausted, you don't have to pretend.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: And we've all felt that. Mhmm. No matter what age you are, we've all felt that.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Yep. Okay. So a couple more examples. We just talked about love your neighbor adds yourself, But there's other examples of this as well. Remember that when God created humanity, what's the first thing that he called it?
• 32:37
  Good. Good. He didn't look at it and say, ugh. Big mistake. How do I remedy this?
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Leave this planet.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Try again. That's not what happened. He looked at both Adam and Eve. What? And he called them good.
• 32:59
  He called creation good. And I actually... I would love to dive into that word a little bit more, and I I don't know. I haven't done that bit of research because I'm coming up with ideas as I'm talking.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: That doesn't seem like us.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: No. That's so silly. But I wonder what that word good looks like to God. You know? Because to us, the word good is not that that great.
• 33:25
  Like... It's it's good. It's not great. It's not amazing. Like, if I do good on a test, I've gotten a b minus.
• 33:35
  You know? Good news, boys and girls. Bree just looked it up. Yep. So the concept is pretty big.
• 33:45
  From what... Bree just read me a whole litany of things from Chatty PT.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: And we could keep it in, but you'd hear me talking like this Yeah.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Like, really low. And me drinking my coffee. You don't want that. So
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: the word itself, the... Is it Hebrew? It is Hebrew, and it's pronounced as Tov, t o v. Actually, I don't know if that's how it's pronounced.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: No, it is. My mine says that's like stove, but Tov. I was gonna tell you. So basically, it doesn't just mean good.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Good in our English translation means rule following, blessing, punishment for bad people, obedience, like, good. Mhmm. But tov means life giving, restoring. Things flourishing as they were meant to. Yeah.
• 34:32
  That's the original intention of this word, quote unquote, good.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Right. Kind of like, this is incredible and as it should be. Mhmm. This is what I wanted. In a perfect scenario, we are what God wanted.
• 34:48
  Think about that. Because I think that carries so much weight. In a perfect scenario, God created humanity. I also think that a lot
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: of times in our Christian interpretations, we think, well, God said it was good back then before sin entered the world, but maybe it's not good now. But God knew Right. What was going to happen. So you and I, even though we're quote unquote born sinners,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: are good. Mhmm.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: We are exactly as God intended. Your interests and likes and all of those things that you were born with are good. Mhmm. Unless they're bad. Unless you're a secret serial killer.
• 35:36
  Yeah.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: That's all good. But you are how you should be. Mhmm. And also remember that as people of faith, God sees us through the lens of Jesus. So it's like putting on sunglasses.
• 35:50
  Right? Mhmm. He sees us as his perfect creation. He sees us as exactly what he meant us to be. When he imagined the perfect Brie, he created you exactly.
• 36:06
  Not you in twenty years when you've perfected yourself. And that goes across the board for everybody. You think the LGBTQ plus community and people who look differently than
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: you and children and the marginalized people. You are good. Mhmm. You are good enough. And I feel like the church does a really bad job.
• 36:23
  The church... The big c church. Small c church? The church does a really bad job at telling people that Mhmm. That they are good, and they are welcome, and they are loved.
• 36:35
  And that's why we get all those comments on TikTok. Mhmm. And
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: I think that changes the world. When you think of yourself as primarily, I suck. I'm horrible. That impacts how you interact with the world. Let's go back to the test example.
• 36:55
  If I already know I'm gonna fail a test because I haven't studied because whatever, and I'm like, who cares? And I'm just checking c on everything.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: Right? You're gonna fulfill that destiny
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: because you've already decided. Yep. Whereas if I walk into that same test saying... Even... Forget.
• 37:12
  I haven't even studied still. But I sat in class. I paid attention. I know I can do this. I'm gonna do a whole lot better.
• 37:22
  If you walk into life saying, I am good. I am loved. I am kind and smart and beautiful. That changes how you interact with the world.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: Knowing your value. Mhmm. Being able to look in the mirror and not see what other people see. The church says, I'm a sinner, and I am lucky to be alive. And people should hate me.
• 37:46
  Mhmm. Maybe maybe they don't say that. But if you look in the mirror, stand in your power pose, and you say, no, I know my value, and I know my worth, and I know that God thinks that I'm good.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. And obviously, there is sin and evil in the world. We know that. We really know that right now. We really know that.
• 38:06
  People can choose what they want to be. That's the other side of this coin. God gave us free will. And that's a beautiful thing because it means we get to choose God. And yet, the flip side of that is that some people don't.
• 38:23
  Some people choose evil. Some people say they choose God and still choose evil. And that sucks. That's also part of why people are like, well, God's gonna have to beg my forgiveness. But it doesn't change who God is.
• 38:40
  Sin doesn't change who God is. Sin doesn't change who God thinks you are. I think another good example of this is the fruits of the spirit, which... Would you wanna sing the song? You haven't sang yet today.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: The Fruits of the Spirit song?
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The Fruits the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness. Well, you sang it. This is in Galatians five. And these get pulled out a whole lot.
• 39:11
  These... This is one I've heard in church many, many a time. And we decided there's nine of them. Right?
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think mom informed us.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Last time, we were like, we think there's seven. No. I'm pretty sure there's nine. And we forgot a couple.
• 39:24
  But some of them, some of the included ones, are love, peace, gentleness, kindness. Right? It doesn't say, and only give these to others. Love, peace, gentleness, kindness, give those to yourself too. It doesn't say self loathing.
• 39:45
  It doesn't say you need to constantly be whacking yourself with a stick and saying how much you're awful. Flogging.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: Flogging is
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: not a fruit of the spirit.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: Can we go on a shirt?
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's not one. So focus on what's focus on what's there. Forget what you've been told over and over and over, especially if you're Baptist, boys and girls.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: We used to be Baptist.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Love, peace, gentleness, kindness, patience, self control.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: I forget the rest. That's a really good question.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Nine nine are a lot to remember. Okay? I I could read it, but I'm not gonna. But focus on those for you too. Remember that God gives you those things.
• 40:40
  And remember that the person that feels those things is the person people wanna be around. Turns out there
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: are nine. Hey. Look at us. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Remember that in Romans eight, it says, there is therefore no condemnation to those who follow Christ. There is no condemnation. That doesn't mean you just won't go to hell. It means that God sees you in the way that you're supposed to be. I think very often in the church, we tie our faith to a threat.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: So our faith is just, just don't go to hell. Just don't go to But it's so much more about living than it is about dying. Yeah. It's how we live our lives on this planet, showing God's love that matters. And if you live your life in fear of hell, you're gonna live your life in fear.
• 41:38
  Mhmm. So what if we just set that aside for a moment and said, how does Jesus want me to live Mhmm. While I'm here? This is what I can do right now.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: And remember that loving yourself doesn't mean saying I'm perfect. I have never done anything wrong. No sin will enter me. That doesn't mean that. It means not assuming that you suck.
• 42:05
  Not waking up every day thinking I'm awful.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: The morning I wake up, I think about how much I'm a crap hole.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: And I say a
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: little prayer for you. I remade that song.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: That was good. That was great. It was beautiful. Now we both sang in this episode.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: I already sang once. You did? I think I did.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow. She sings so much. I forget. So we're not saying don't continue to strive to be what Jesus wants you to be. But also remember that in a lot of ways, you're already there.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: Cease striving. Oh, I love it. Cease striving because Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit, you know, those guys. You are already good enough. Mhmm.
• 42:54
  And you just have to lean into it. One of
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: the things that as we've studied for these episodes over the last two some odd years that has really, really stood out to me is that we don't have to fight once you accept Christ into your life and decide that you are gonna follow him. That's the caveat. Right? You decide I'm gonna follow God. Not just I said the Lord That's for Amy Grant.
• 43:28
  Then your natural position should be love, care, kindness, etcetera. So if you just... Instead of striving, instead of pushing so hard to like, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna be really loving today. I'm gonna whatever. If you just sit back and relax in your faith in Jesus, that will naturally flow out of you.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: The slow lot of mind. Yeah. The more that you actually learn about Jesus and you learn about your faith and you learn that Jesus was love and compassion and he fed people and he sat with them and he cared for them, that kind of just naturally will come out of you.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: I think as humans, we have this need to do more. Do more. Do more. Do more. Hustle.
• 44:18
  Yeah. And it's like, okay. I gotta get up forty five minutes early before work and read my bible every single day even though I'm exhausted. And I need to go to church not just on Sundays, but I also need to go small group. And I also need to volunteer.
• 44:32
  And I also need to, you know, fill in the blank. We've got this list of things. I need to pray for 45 people today. That's exhausting. And trust and believe that God will put
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: opportunities Mhmm. In your lap for you to be compassionate Mhmm. And kind and loving if that's what you want. Yeah. If you want those opportunities to show God's love, and you should, those opportunities will naturally come to you and you just have to open your eyes to them.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. You don't have to fight to find them. No. If your faith is that, because I've had faith like that before. I've had the faith where I'm at church four days a week because I'm volunteering for three different services, and I'm doing this, that, and I've got small group and whatever.
• 45:16
  It is exhausting, and it's not about God.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: I also feel like that's a bargaining tactic. If
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: I burn myself out for God,
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: maybe then I will get something in return. Maybe God will bless my life. Maybe I will have less financial struggles. Maybe I'll find a partner at church. That's not true faith.
• 45:37
  Mhmm. That's trying to manipulate God. Yeah. And it's not gonna work out in your favor because you're just gonna burn yourself out. Mhmm.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: And very rarely is it bible based. Like Yeah. Me showing up at church four times a week was not about god. I look back. I would love to tell you, oh, it was about me and my strong faith and blah blah blah.
• 45:56
  And people from the outside, that's what they saw. They saw, oh, she has a strong faith. But the reality of the situation was that I wanted people to know that I was there.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: You liked that feeling of importance. Mhmm.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: And that's when there's nothing... Yeah. There's nothing inherently wrong with, hey, I wanna help and lead. Nothing wrong with that. Yeah.
• 46:18
  But don't kill yourself to do the works when all God is asking of you is to lean into him. That's all. That's it. You don't have to do a million things. You don't have to be at church every Sunday.
• 46:32
  You don't have to cook every meal and volunteer at every event. You can say no. It's okay. Now something I want you guys to do this week. I've got homework for you again.
• 46:40
  I heard it.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: But this is a
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: good one. Last time I made you read a passage of the Bible. I'm so sorry.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: I don't like homework.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: But this week... Because I do this a lot where I try... I think I said this last week where I try and picture Jesus walking with me through things. And I think that changes the way you see the world. If Jesus is walking alongside you, there's a gentle presence there.
• 47:03
  There's a quiet presence there. There's a take
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: a deep breath presence there. There's also just a feeling of I'm not alone.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: Right. And that allows you to notice the quiet moments. When you're on your drive to work this week, notice the sunrise. Notice the sound of the birds or the quiet for a minute.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, I hate the quiet.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: Take a minute to look out your window and see what God created or to look at yourself in the mirror and see the amazingness that God created, To think of the creativity of the world or or anything. Just think of the beauty that God made and know that you're part of it. Because I do think that will change your day, your week, your month, your life.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: And say that to yourself in the mirror every day for twelve days. Oh, wow. Because after... It's either ten or 12. But after ten or 12, it becomes a habit.
• 48:01
  And maybe you can change your brain chemistry.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: Little scientific advice from Listen Bree.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Science.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: Alright. Next week, I think we'll jump back into tough parts of the bible. I may do some tough individual verses that get thrown at people. I had someone throw the verse Titus three nine at me. Look that up if you want to.
• 48:28
  On a TikTok the other day, and it's about not arguing amongst yourselves. And they were basically saying, stop talking about this stuff because we shouldn't be arguing amongst ourselves. And so I looked up the context of it. And I think it would be cool to talk about some of those verses that people will... It's just a one off verse that they throw at you like, stop doing this.
• 48:47
  You're annoying me. Here's a verse.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: That or the verse that says you have to respect authority Mhmm. In the land that you're in.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: But also then you look at the Bible in context and realize there are so many times where we do not respect what authority is. Right.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: So I wanna talk about a couple of those tough verses, maybe a couple of tough stories too, and just get you ready for when people do throw those things at you. And part of being strong in your faith is this, is knowing your worth and your value to God. And part of it is knowing who God really is.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: And that will allow you to show the world
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: who he really is. Yeah. Clap back on
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: those haters. You know, as you do. So come back for that next week. We love you all.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: We're so glad that you are here. Follow us on social media if you haven't. God made you special.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: And he loves you very much. Okay. Love you. Bye. Love you.
• 49:47
  Bye.