Latest / The Observatory | Discovery of Consciousness & Awareness / Finding Mother God with Carol Lynn Pearson | Heavenly Mother, Mormon Feminism & the Divine Feminine

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Finding Mother God with Carol Lynn Pearson | Heavenly Mother, Mormon Feminism & the Divine Feminine · The Observatory | Discovery of Consciousness & Awareness

0:03
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Observatory Podcast with your host Scott and
0:07
Speaker 1: the o Right join us each week as we explore
0:10
Speaker 1: living life from the inside out.
0:14
Speaker 2: Power For our.
0:18
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Observatory Podcast Today, we have a
0:21
Speaker 1: special guest with us, Carol Lynn Pearson. We couldn't be
0:26
Speaker 1: more excited to have her join us. She is an
0:28
Speaker 1: author of several books, including a favorite pomebook of rays
0:33
Speaker 1: called Finding Mother God. And we would invite you to sit.
0:36
Speaker 2: Back and relax and enjoy this podcast with Carol Lynn Pearson.
0:41
Speaker 1: We would also ask you to please share our podcast
0:45
Speaker 1: with as you know who should think might benefit from
0:48
Speaker 1: it and be sure to like it and if you
0:51
Speaker 1: could leave a review, that would be awesome. Sit back
0:54
Speaker 1: and relax.
0:55
Speaker 2: Here comes Carol Lynn Pearson.
0:58
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Observatory Podcast today. Our guest is
1:03
Speaker 1: Karen Lynn Pearson and we are ownered to have you here,
1:07
Speaker 1: We truly are, and we're so thankful that we were
1:11
Speaker 1: introduced to you through a few people we know in
1:14
Speaker 1: our podcast company reached out to you and you said
1:18
Speaker 1: with an enthusiastic yes that you had come, and so
1:21
Speaker 1: we're so glad to have you here. Well cleared in
1:23
Speaker 1: the Way concurstic to be here. Thank you again for
1:27
Speaker 1: the invitation, and that's delightful. So you know, we know
1:34
Speaker 1: where you come from, but many of our listeners may not,
1:38
Speaker 1: and so we'd like to just have you give a
1:40
Speaker 1: brief synopsis of who you are, your author. You've published
1:45
Speaker 1: several books, plays, lots of different things with very powerful
1:50
Speaker 1: messages and lots of experience to share with us. So
1:54
Speaker 1: we'd like to just kind of go there with you,
1:56
Speaker 1: if you don't mind, certainly, Well, Richie Way, I am
2:00
Speaker 1: from Heaven t all Are and then I was deposited
2:06
Speaker 1: in Salt Lake City, Utah. I have all of my
2:12
Speaker 1: great grandparents or Norman pioneers, so I'm very gains in
2:17
Speaker 1: that interesting culture. And I was eight years old when
2:25
Speaker 1: we moved from Salt Lake to a little timmy town
2:28
Speaker 1: in Utah that you have never heard of, called Gusher
2:32
Speaker 1: out in the event the basin between Roosevelt and Brtle.
2:35
Speaker 1: My father got a job teaching the Indians and the
2:42
Speaker 1: veterans farming well, and so we were out there for
2:46
Speaker 1: five years in kind of nowhere. And then my mother
2:50
Speaker 1: saved all of her savings from her her paychecks as
2:53
Speaker 1: a teacher to get us back into civilization and they
2:56
Speaker 1: built a home in Provo. I finished growing up in Provo.
3:03
Speaker 1: We had a wonderful time there. We went to by
3:06
Speaker 1: High School, went to BYU, majored in theater, had a
3:14
Speaker 1: great time there. I was able to be in some
3:17
Speaker 1: wonderful plays. My favorite was being able to play Joanah
3:23
Speaker 1: Bark on stage said Bhyu in the Joseph Smith Memorial
3:29
Speaker 1: Building and just thrilling, throwing. So I had all of
3:34
Speaker 1: those these artistic literary interests from early on, I believe.
3:44
Speaker 1: And then back in high school they started keeping a
3:47
Speaker 1: diary and I have kept it ever since. So I
3:53
Speaker 1: now have all of those decades of my life written down.
3:59
Speaker 1: And why I started writing that diary, it was just
4:02
Speaker 1: I needed words. I needed the place to put my words.
4:06
Speaker 1: And I also started writing very simple little poems in
4:11
Speaker 1: high school and in college, and we got some awards
4:16
Speaker 1: for them, really And and then after I graduated from
4:21
Speaker 1: YU with my Masters in drama, I taught for years
4:26
Speaker 1: Snow College I from and then it came back and
4:32
Speaker 1: worked at the most Picture Studio at YU for a
4:36
Speaker 1: few years, during which time I met this very interesting
4:40
Speaker 1: young man. We met him a play. His name was
4:44
Speaker 1: Jerry Pearson, and he was a charming, energetic blonde man
4:53
Speaker 1: that I found myself riveted on his energy. And anyway,
4:58
Speaker 1: we became really good friends, and we fell in love
5:01
Speaker 1: and remarried in nineteen sixty six in the Salt Lake Temple.
5:10
Speaker 1: And as I'm sure you when roll this, this marriage
5:14
Speaker 1: was a very interesting one. Before we were engaged, Generald
5:22
Speaker 1: told me that in his past there had been homosexual
5:25
Speaker 1: feelings and experiences, but that's not who he was. He
5:28
Speaker 1: was pretty fresh off of LDS mission to Australia, and
5:34
Speaker 1: he was totally devoted to doing things right, absolutely one
5:38
Speaker 1: hundred percent, and he did love me as best as
5:42
Speaker 1: he absolutely could. And so we had that conversation. It
5:47
Speaker 1: was not really troubling to me because you know, I
5:50
Speaker 1: knew as we all knew in the nineteen sixties, but
5:53
Speaker 1: we knew nothing.
5:55
Speaker 3: I knew that.
5:56
Speaker 1: This was just something, and you authority is that the
6:00
Speaker 1: Church assured us that this kind of these figures, this behavior,
6:06
Speaker 1: it was just a temptation of Satan and you just
6:09
Speaker 1: have to just just resist the temptation, or if you
6:13
Speaker 1: get into it, you're just repent and that's all. And
6:17
Speaker 1: the thought was really that you see, well, we're just
6:21
Speaker 1: looking at the game made at that time. Nobody even
6:23
Speaker 1: thought that women would have, you know, any part in this.
6:27
Speaker 1: So a gay member was just to marry a good
6:30
Speaker 1: woman and that would solve the problem. So that was
6:32
Speaker 1: really what we were taught. And so I did feel
6:37
Speaker 1: comfortable about moving into our marriage. And we had a
6:44
Speaker 1: good marriage in so many ways. We had four children,
6:53
Speaker 1: and during that time Gerald let me know that it
6:59
Speaker 1: is we want to get home, and he still had
7:02
Speaker 1: this profound read or emotionally physically a male companion, which
7:12
Speaker 1: was of course very frightening to me, and of course
7:15
Speaker 1: I wish, I hoped that he could just just make
7:20
Speaker 1: a different choice. You know, you've started, you've got a
7:22
Speaker 1: family now, And anyway, I really I learned that it
7:29
Speaker 1: was a very very complicated thing, not a simple choice
7:36
Speaker 1: as I have been told, and at any rate to
7:41
Speaker 1: read for a number of reasons. Well, during that time
7:45
Speaker 1: is when I became known as a writer. This is
7:48
Speaker 1: a very weird phenomenon. The first year of my marriage,
7:53
Speaker 1: jord insisted that we still published this little book of
7:57
Speaker 1: poems of my Colored Beginnings. And I will never know
8:03
Speaker 1: exactly how or why this happened, but it suddenly put
8:07
Speaker 1: me on the map in London and the territories around,
8:13
Speaker 1: and that became Joe's focus to be a publisher. And anyway,
8:21
Speaker 1: we did see the more of my things. I had
8:23
Speaker 1: a very early interest in the woman women's history when
8:28
Speaker 1: we published a couple of books of mine Morbi Women
8:32
Speaker 1: Exercise and Spiritual Gifts and the history of the early
8:36
Speaker 1: woman women in Utah. So I was something. I was
8:41
Speaker 1: something of a woman.
8:43
Speaker 3: Person in Utah.
8:45
Speaker 1: The general authorities be gave them the book and they
8:48
Speaker 1: loved it. I was quoted by them in conference.
8:51
Speaker 3: Oh.
8:51
Speaker 1: In fact, you know what, two days ago my words
8:54
Speaker 1: were spoken at general conference. Wow, they a little a
9:02
Speaker 1: song that I had written at the request of the
9:07
Speaker 1: Children's Primary organization of the church to invite all of
9:13
Speaker 1: us to embrace everyone, mat of their differences. They asked
9:19
Speaker 1: me to write that song, which I did, and this
9:21
Speaker 1: become a real classic to this point, is called I'll
9:24
Speaker 1: Walk with You. And I was wholly here it recorded
9:29
Speaker 1: in conference. So any way back to the narrative here.
9:35
Speaker 1: For a number of reasons, we moved from you to California,
9:41
Speaker 1: where I live now in Walnut Creek in the east
9:45
Speaker 1: Bay and Gerald and I tried our very best to
9:51
Speaker 1: maintain our marriage, and it was clear to us finally
9:56
Speaker 1: that that was just not going to be the case.
10:00
Speaker 1: Made a decision to divorce, and we were able to
10:04
Speaker 1: remain good friends. I was determined that our family was
10:09
Speaker 1: not going to suffer hatred and the kind of division
10:14
Speaker 1: and blame that very often happens. And I had a
10:19
Speaker 1: lot of empathy for Gerald. How many years and we
10:22
Speaker 1: were married. We were married for twelve years, and then
10:31
Speaker 1: then divorce happened. And four years after the divorce happened,
10:41
Speaker 1: Jerald passed away from AIDS. And that was in my home,
10:47
Speaker 1: this home where I was speaking to you, from where
10:51
Speaker 1: I was taking care of him for the last.
10:55
Speaker 3: Part of his life.
10:58
Speaker 1: And that was, of course, something no one would ever choose.
11:04
Speaker 1: It was wrenching in every possible way. And it was
11:12
Speaker 1: soon after the soon after the death that it occurred
11:19
Speaker 1: to me. Gerald and I had never ever discussed the
11:24
Speaker 1: idea that I might write our story. It was just
11:29
Speaker 1: too shameful. It never crossed my mind. But I had
11:34
Speaker 1: continued to write books, and my stature as an LDS
11:40
Speaker 1: writer continued, had continued to build, and I also written
11:43
Speaker 1: in plays and musicals and.
11:48
Speaker 3: Anyway.
11:49
Speaker 1: It When I first thought of the possibility of writing this,
11:56
Speaker 1: I pretty suddenly knew that this was the correct thing
11:59
Speaker 1: to do, that Joe and I had learned so much
12:04
Speaker 1: from our experience together, and that in society in general,
12:10
Speaker 1: and certainly our specific, normal society was very uneducated, very
12:18
Speaker 1: blind to the realities of sexual orientation and what it
12:25
Speaker 1: really means.
12:29
Speaker 3: So I did.
12:30
Speaker 1: I just went ahead and I wrote that book, and
12:34
Speaker 1: everything fell into place. I found an agent who sold
12:39
Speaker 1: it to a random house, a big publisher in New York,
12:44
Speaker 1: and Gabriela, who was the title of the book.
12:47
Speaker 3: And it was published in eighty six.
12:52
Speaker 1: George death that happened in eighty four, and two years
12:56
Speaker 1: after that the book came out, which was a huge event.
13:02
Speaker 1: It was even a national event. I was on all
13:06
Speaker 1: the major talk shows. I was on the Born in America,
13:12
Speaker 1: the Old Part, and the interviewed you know for months
13:17
Speaker 1: and months, and traveled to about ten cities doing their
13:21
Speaker 1: major shows. And I had wondered where they all had
13:28
Speaker 1: wondered what kind of response her family would be get,
13:32
Speaker 1: and I knew. I talked to my children considerably about this.
13:37
Speaker 1: They were still young sixteen and down to four. But
13:46
Speaker 1: they knew that this is something that their father would
13:49
Speaker 1: want to have happened. And I had told them they
13:54
Speaker 1: might received, you know, some kind of major response from somebody,
14:00
Speaker 1: But that did not happen. I was astonished that this
14:07
Speaker 1: difficult thing that went out that was you know, so shocking,
14:12
Speaker 1: even though I clearly I did it in a very
14:15
Speaker 1: sensitive way, it was so well received. All across the country,
14:24
Speaker 1: it was well received, and in Normandon it was well received.
14:30
Speaker 3: To my.
14:32
Speaker 1: Well, I felt that, you know, my people have not
14:36
Speaker 1: to be on board with this, because it is clearly
14:43
Speaker 1: a good thing to have it happen. Sure, And but
14:48
Speaker 1: but I remember when, well, when when my publisher told
14:53
Speaker 1: me that Desiret Book, which is the major book out
14:58
Speaker 1: owned by the church in Sult, I had asked for
15:04
Speaker 1: an advanced copy to read it. I remember just being paralyzed, thinking,
15:09
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, what does this.
15:10
Speaker 3: Kind of mean.
15:12
Speaker 1: I didn't think it would be an excommunication or anything
15:15
Speaker 1: like that, but I just I just did not know
15:19
Speaker 1: what the response would be. And somewhat later on, when
15:24
Speaker 1: I the publisher told me that de book had ordered
15:28
Speaker 1: a thousand copies of the book and wanted me to
15:33
Speaker 1: do autograph signing sessions in the Salt Lake City bookstore
15:38
Speaker 1: in their.
15:40
Speaker 3: Bookstore.
15:41
Speaker 1: So, boy, I heaved a sign of relief, and I
15:44
Speaker 1: was just so through I had the response that I got,
15:48
Speaker 1: you know, from all quarters. It just was kind of
15:52
Speaker 1: a miraculous event. And so that opened the door for
15:57
Speaker 1: me to do a lot of work in that direction.
16:00
Speaker 1: As I hear you talk when you're talking. Initially you
16:04
Speaker 1: talked to us about your coming from the pioneer ancestry
16:08
Speaker 1: of coming across the plains, and I see you as
16:12
Speaker 1: another pioneer in these days, one of the first to
16:17
Speaker 1: come out with that type of the story. To be
16:19
Speaker 1: able to open the doors for people to have a
16:22
Speaker 1: conversation that was really the first significant thing that was
16:28
Speaker 1: written in Mormon culture.
16:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, to.
16:33
Speaker 1: In a compassionate way to really help us understand what
16:38
Speaker 1: all this means. And so I've been able to do
16:43
Speaker 1: a great deal of ongoing work for all of the
16:47
Speaker 1: queer community that and I cannot tell you how much
16:51
Speaker 1: you love and appreciation I have received from that community.
16:56
Speaker 2: Yeah.
16:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the first book that I was introduced to
17:01
Speaker 1: you through. I was just finishing YU and I remember
17:05
Speaker 1: reading that book and just feeling the compassion in that book.
17:08
Speaker 1: It was so beautiful. And you know, I have two
17:13
Speaker 1: gay nephews, both of which are married, and both of
17:17
Speaker 1: them have a clear affinity to you, and it is
17:20
Speaker 1: because of your continuing advocacy and just compassion for you know,
17:27
Speaker 1: the complication of what life could be mean for them.
17:31
Speaker 1: And it's just such a beautiful experience to share, as
17:37
Speaker 1: painful as it may have been for you to live it,
17:40
Speaker 1: to share it with everyone, whether they were Mormon or not,
17:44
Speaker 1: to just be so open and have such an open
17:47
Speaker 1: heart in sharing that as to who you truly were
17:51
Speaker 1: as you went through that. Yeah, in order, I'm well
17:55
Speaker 1: aware in all of that that anyone, anybody would volunteer
18:01
Speaker 1: to go through that, but realizing the large contribution that
18:08
Speaker 1: that whole story made in the lives of untold.
18:13
Speaker 3: Numbers of people.
18:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just constantly grateful that I was able to
18:18
Speaker 1: give that. Yeah, The Three People is going to mention.
18:23
Speaker 1: I had a brother that went through a senior situation.
18:26
Speaker 1: We've got to put one of our podcasts is his
18:28
Speaker 1: story of where he came out and after having been
18:32
Speaker 1: a bishop and a mission president, then he came out
18:35
Speaker 1: later and it's the story of that, and so it
18:40
Speaker 1: was really an opening of a door for people to
18:43
Speaker 1: not have quite so much judgment around those things. I
18:46
Speaker 1: know for myself, you know, I came from a family
18:48
Speaker 1: of mostly brothers, and for myself and for my other brothers,
18:55
Speaker 1: when we heard about Steve, his name Steve, for us
18:59
Speaker 1: to reconcile that within ourselves it was difficult. We've never
19:03
Speaker 1: had to even look at it before. We've never had
19:06
Speaker 1: to look at h at that. We didn't, you know,
19:09
Speaker 1: it was out there, it was somewhere else, it was
19:11
Speaker 1: someone else. And then when that happened, it took years
19:15
Speaker 1: for us all to come to a realization of the
19:19
Speaker 1: unconditioned to love that we now have for him and
19:23
Speaker 1: where his life went and the ups and downs and
19:25
Speaker 1: all the trials and things that he went through as
19:28
Speaker 1: well as his former wife went through and children. But
19:33
Speaker 1: it was it's a very similar story to what you're
19:36
Speaker 1: talking about. And what we see is that's so common,
19:40
Speaker 1: and that's why it resonated, I think with so many
19:42
Speaker 1: people your story because it is so common. Every family
19:46
Speaker 1: has that there, whether it's hidden or over it's earlier
19:51
Speaker 1: and back when the work came out, not everybody knew
19:55
Speaker 1: that they had somewhere in their family, somebody experiencing this,
19:59
Speaker 1: or nobody at work for all of their friends, because
20:02
Speaker 1: it was not talked about. It's talked about today because
20:05
Speaker 1: we have come a huge distance in understanding and in
20:10
Speaker 1: accepting our brothers and sisters of whatever sexual orientation. And
20:18
Speaker 1: that's one thing that we really have seen in these
20:23
Speaker 1: last few decades make a significant change. And I really
20:28
Speaker 1: feel grateful to have been a part of doing something
20:33
Speaker 1: important like that. We were honored to have you here
20:38
Speaker 1: for one reason is that you know it's excited impact
20:42
Speaker 1: on both.
20:42
Speaker 2: Of our lives.
20:43
Speaker 3: For sure.
20:44
Speaker 2: Thank you.
20:46
Speaker 1: When you know I have been a pioneer in other ways, So.
20:49
Speaker 2: I know that.
20:52
Speaker 1: See, I was born into what we call women's issues,
20:56
Speaker 1: then I married into what we call gay issues. But
21:03
Speaker 1: the positions have never been far from the center of
21:08
Speaker 1: my work. And you know, June and I would sort
21:11
Speaker 1: of laugh about the idea that you know, somehow he
21:15
Speaker 1: and I came together, both of us with our our
21:18
Speaker 1: issues that focused on things about gender. And I don't
21:24
Speaker 1: know why, but early early on, way pre high school,
21:31
Speaker 1: I think I looked around and said, there's something wrong
21:36
Speaker 1: with this picture. Why is it that all things that
21:40
Speaker 1: seemed to be important are done by men. You know,
21:43
Speaker 1: at church, of course, everybody on the stands at the
21:48
Speaker 1: chorister w men. Men did this? Then did that men
21:54
Speaker 1: held the priesthood? Everything was mail, you know, from from
21:58
Speaker 1: Deity on down to the deacons. Everything spiritually important happened
22:07
Speaker 1: through the male.
22:10
Speaker 3: And of course.
22:13
Speaker 1: For centuries now you've considered that God is male, which
22:18
Speaker 1: is something that my pioneering devotion has asked me to address.
22:25
Speaker 1: So early on I started before Goodbye I Loved You.
22:31
Speaker 1: I was writing things about looking at the forgotten lives
22:39
Speaker 1: of Norman women and others. And so since then, as
22:48
Speaker 1: you may know, I've done some really significant things toward
22:55
Speaker 1: equalizing our our were of both genders.
23:02
Speaker 2: And I.
23:05
Speaker 1: Believe a quote that imber from long ago Budge writers
23:12
Speaker 1: shall come to me in a second, that men and
23:16
Speaker 1: women are different. What needs to be made equal is
23:19
Speaker 1: the value placed on those differences. Now, we will spend
23:24
Speaker 1: a lot of time and society will never probably get
23:27
Speaker 1: to the finish line of figuring out, you know, exactly
23:31
Speaker 1: what men have to bring, what women have to bring.
23:34
Speaker 1: But the obvious thing is that we have always honored
23:37
Speaker 1: everything that has been brought to us by men and
23:43
Speaker 1: the positions that men have been in, and of course
23:46
Speaker 1: with a sincere but still token appreciation for women who
23:53
Speaker 1: are the well those that we cannot do without, and
23:56
Speaker 1: all of the really all of the important kinds of
24:01
Speaker 1: human work that has to be done. But nevertheless, this
24:06
Speaker 1: has been something that has been in front of me
24:09
Speaker 1: for pretty much all of my remembered life, and that
24:15
Speaker 1: I have that I have addressed, and to me, the
24:20
Speaker 1: central thing that I keep coming back to over and
24:23
Speaker 1: over again, as is a statement put very well by
24:31
Speaker 1: your day a Catholic theologian, and if God is male,
24:35
Speaker 1: the male is God. That is so simple and that
24:41
Speaker 1: kind of says it all.
24:45
Speaker 3: So it has been my.
24:49
Speaker 1: Commitment, my actual spiritual calling, to address that from going
24:57
Speaker 1: on and to helpersol we visit the gender of God
25:06
Speaker 1: so that males and femaleness can be seen as equally
25:11
Speaker 1: divine in the heavens, however you want to look at
25:15
Speaker 1: the heavens and on earth. So many of my projects
25:20
Speaker 1: have been toward that end, and we can talk about
25:24
Speaker 1: whichever ones of them that you want. I'll let you
25:27
Speaker 1: continue with me whatever you're.
25:29
Speaker 3: Thinking right now.
25:30
Speaker 1: You know, I love the second book that I got
25:32
Speaker 1: of hers was Finding Mother, Finding Mother, God, Finding Mother, God,
25:37
Speaker 1: Mother God, the Book of Palms, and I absolutely love
25:41
Speaker 1: that book and it prompted so much in me because
25:48
Speaker 1: after I graduated from YU and I moved to New
25:50
Speaker 1: York and worked in corporate America, it became hard for
25:55
Speaker 1: me to understand that the only way I was going
25:57
Speaker 1: to succeed is if I embodied men. And I often
26:03
Speaker 1: look back and think, you know, I was becoming more
26:06
Speaker 1: masculine in my tendencies, except for like when I would
26:11
Speaker 1: be a bigger advocate for employees, or that I would
26:14
Speaker 1: want something to be fair and I would be told
26:16
Speaker 1: that I was being emotional. But when reading those poems,
26:21
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, there's got to be a way
26:23
Speaker 1: that we can, especially in today, come to a place
26:27
Speaker 1: where the feminine is powerful in all of her feminine attributes.
26:36
Speaker 1: And that is something that when I read those poems,
26:40
Speaker 1: I can feel that I can feel that essence and
26:44
Speaker 1: energy that I think I have embodied in me and
26:49
Speaker 1: especially the younger generation. You know, I love all the
26:52
Speaker 1: conversations around sacred feminine. That is, you know, there's more
26:57
Speaker 1: and more conversations so as you kind of talk about
27:00
Speaker 1: your story. There had to have been a time, even
27:02
Speaker 1: playing Joan of Arc, where you realize that the women
27:06
Speaker 1: that were strong were the ones that had to emulate
27:10
Speaker 1: a lot of male attributes. And so how did that
27:16
Speaker 1: start to come when you said, no, you know, from
27:18
Speaker 1: a spiritual perspective, there is another energy, a mother that
27:23
Speaker 1: brings to us all the feminine aspects that are routream,
27:28
Speaker 1: that are nature, that are part of what makes men
27:33
Speaker 1: at times powerful, and put that together in a way
27:38
Speaker 1: that became your work. You know, boy, I don't know
27:45
Speaker 1: that I have a symbol answer to that. I agree
27:50
Speaker 1: with what you just said that women who wanted to
27:57
Speaker 1: sort of get a hand to hand to feel that
27:58
Speaker 1: they had to become right men. But I hope they
28:05
Speaker 1: were somewhat past that now realizing that the strength is
28:11
Speaker 1: not owned by the male corporation strength. And you mentioned Joan.
28:19
Speaker 3: Of Bark, Yes, she she of course.
28:23
Speaker 1: Had to take on a male persona to do what
28:25
Speaker 1: she had to do. And as you were speaking about
28:31
Speaker 1: here and Joan also about they be burned at the
28:33
Speaker 1: steak because she did all that, or sometimes burned at
28:37
Speaker 1: the steakhouse as it ass But nevertheless, I just know
28:49
Speaker 1: that it had to be done, and I knew that
28:51
Speaker 1: it was right, and you know, it was in the
28:55
Speaker 1: journey to to just do this, this dance of maleness
29:03
Speaker 1: and femaleist that be different, contributing different things, but having
29:09
Speaker 1: the same value. And we will never be able to
29:15
Speaker 1: pin all that down. I mean saying, Okay, we've got
29:17
Speaker 1: it all figured out now, but where we are going?
29:20
Speaker 1: And I think where we have come to a.
29:23
Speaker 3: Large extent.
29:27
Speaker 1: In many places, I think religion itself is way behind,
29:32
Speaker 1: way behind in this. But you know, I saw some
29:35
Speaker 1: interesting these yesterday that the Pope is that they're doing
29:39
Speaker 1: some kind of radical investigation of how to make the
29:46
Speaker 1: whole church experience more more attractive to women. It was
29:53
Speaker 1: utilize women's strengths more. I'm grateful for that which I
30:00
Speaker 1: have seen this much in my own church, not merely,
30:06
Speaker 1: not nearly anywhere what needs to happen, you know, I'm
30:10
Speaker 1: grateful that my contribution has been accepted, and I have
30:14
Speaker 1: a lot of people who are very, very grateful for me. Yeah,
30:19
Speaker 1: And it's not just an idea that you entertain, it's
30:23
Speaker 1: like a knowing that you share. Who I mean when
30:26
Speaker 1: I read your writings and what I've seen you in
30:30
Speaker 1: other podcasts that you talk about. It's not like what if.
30:33
Speaker 1: It isn't a what if question. It is it is.
30:36
Speaker 1: It is there, like we can't deny that sacred femine
30:41
Speaker 1: that is there and Mother God and really redefining what
30:46
Speaker 1: God energy, what God who, and what God is absolutely truly.
30:53
Speaker 1: But then I want us to do a few I
30:56
Speaker 1: would like us to continue more about this book, and
30:59
Speaker 1: if you want, I could read just a few poems
31:01
Speaker 1: from it. But I would like if the way tip
31:05
Speaker 1: to back up just a little bit in my journey
31:07
Speaker 1: on this particular subject to the thing that exploded in
31:13
Speaker 1: my mind and became such a huge, huge, ongoing event.
31:19
Speaker 1: And that was in the early well in the in
31:24
Speaker 1: the middle eighties, when I was doing so much research
31:30
Speaker 1: about where did the male excuse, okay, great the male
31:36
Speaker 1: god get rid of the female goddess in history? And
31:42
Speaker 1: so I did so much research into that, and that
31:47
Speaker 1: led me to write a run woman play that I
31:53
Speaker 1: tied another Law of the Morning, in which I played
31:57
Speaker 1: sixteen women throughout history in search of the feminine face
32:02
Speaker 1: of God. Did we start off with a paleolithic woman
32:06
Speaker 1: who knows only the goddess? Did we go through all
32:10
Speaker 1: of the different cultures Biblical and Greek and Egyptian, and
32:15
Speaker 1: we were bringing us up to the modern day where
32:20
Speaker 1: we are making the effort to incorporate the female back
32:26
Speaker 1: into the male, back into the concept of God along
32:30
Speaker 1: with the male. And I performed that play over three
32:36
Speaker 1: hundred times. I had a huge response in California, in Utah,
32:44
Speaker 1: in a lot of places, and I even took it abroad.
32:48
Speaker 1: I took it to an international conference that ran Isoler,
32:53
Speaker 1: even who wrote The Callous of the Blade headed in
32:58
Speaker 1: on crete. The interest was so high and continues to
33:02
Speaker 1: be high in so many areas about ways vocabulary and
33:11
Speaker 1: artistic ways to bring back the concept of call it
33:17
Speaker 1: heavenly Mother, which is what happens in Norman culture, and
33:21
Speaker 1: the call it, you know, the Goddess, which so many
33:26
Speaker 1: different layers of our culture can utilize that word. But
33:34
Speaker 1: however it's done to bring back the feminine into the
33:39
Speaker 1: idea of the origin of whoever we are, because it
33:45
Speaker 1: is I mean, once you look at it, it is
33:46
Speaker 1: absurd to look around at the world, look around at
33:51
Speaker 1: all of the humans, look around all the animals, but
33:54
Speaker 1: pretty much are you know, half and half male and
33:57
Speaker 1: female and say integrate of Father created all of this.
34:03
Speaker 1: If you ever fat to think about that, it is
34:05
Speaker 1: so bizarre it just just makes you shake your head.
34:10
Speaker 1: But most people, many people are not at that point
34:13
Speaker 1: yet because it's just been an assumption. Is something we
34:17
Speaker 1: have received from centuries past, and that's the only words
34:22
Speaker 1: that are used today in many of our religions. And
34:27
Speaker 1: so most people just throw it away either as useless
34:32
Speaker 1: or as dangerous, which is, once it seem as dangerous,
34:35
Speaker 1: then we're on track. Because it is dangerous, it shapes,
34:41
Speaker 1: it changes everything. If I can add something here, I mean,
34:47
Speaker 1: what we've been seeing over the last several decades is
34:51
Speaker 1: a lot of people moving away from structured belief systems religions, right,
34:56
Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the reasons. That is
34:59
Speaker 1: definitely a contributing factor to it. But as Rolla and
35:03
Speaker 1: I left our belief systems behind you, the reason we
35:08
Speaker 1: did it wasn't because we devalued them or didn't think
35:11
Speaker 1: that they had had use or beneficial for people who
35:16
Speaker 1: weren't doing good things. It was because it limited the
35:20
Speaker 1: way we could look at exactly what you're talking about.
35:23
Speaker 1: It limited the way we could look at God as
35:26
Speaker 1: being man with this learman belief is with a body
35:31
Speaker 1: of flesh and bone. It wmpeered to Joseph Smith and
35:36
Speaker 1: told him to start starting a religion. And when you
35:41
Speaker 1: get so attached to something like that, it becomes offensive
35:47
Speaker 1: when someone says that's wrong. And that's not what we're
35:49
Speaker 1: trying to say, that that's wrong. It's just more, it's
35:54
Speaker 1: not just it's not the limiting aspect of the physicality
35:59
Speaker 1: of that.
36:00
Speaker 3: And uh.
36:02
Speaker 1: In the same culture that they were speaking of here,
36:06
Speaker 1: there has been from the beginning in this what do
36:09
Speaker 1: you concept that somewhere there's another there, that there is
36:13
Speaker 1: a heaven new mother. But you know, we don't really
36:18
Speaker 1: will talk about it to that you know it acknowledge
36:21
Speaker 1: it exists, what we don't want to look at it
36:24
Speaker 1: Absolutely that's what it is. And so you know, as
36:26
Speaker 1: you may know, that's a that's a major stress in
36:31
Speaker 1: the structure of whom whether you call yourself a feminist,
36:37
Speaker 1: as I certainly do, or just an a lake person
36:42
Speaker 1: who wants to to open new doors and to bring
36:45
Speaker 1: in new fresh air and whatever. There's a tremendous yearning
36:50
Speaker 1: and lots of writing going on and discussion going on
36:53
Speaker 1: in women culture as well. As you know, many many,
36:57
Speaker 1: many places of how to bring the Mother part of
37:03
Speaker 1: the dunity back into our consciousness. And at this moment
37:08
Speaker 1: that is seen in the organizational structure of the church
37:13
Speaker 1: is pretty dangerous. Leave that alone, and they will not
37:18
Speaker 1: leave it alone because it's essential, it's part of who
37:21
Speaker 1: we are now. In your research, so that I'm curious,
37:25
Speaker 1: what did you find where the goddess or the mother
37:30
Speaker 1: that where that was taken away? Where did you find that? Well,
37:38
Speaker 1: in our cultural religious lineage, there would be a significant
37:46
Speaker 1: shift from the early cultures that were matriarchal in some
37:57
Speaker 1: of the biblical areas is and then when Israel got
38:06
Speaker 1: its muscle and came in with a tremendous force, well
38:11
Speaker 1: you can read this in the Bible. The the Israelite
38:17
Speaker 1: the warriors came in and slaughtered the surrounding civilizations because
38:24
Speaker 1: they were they were doing wrong. They were goddess worshipers.
38:30
Speaker 1: They were not they were dangerous. And so that that
38:37
Speaker 1: is one time in history where it's sort of clear
38:43
Speaker 1: that that the male energy that overcame the female energy
38:48
Speaker 1: just to own the land, to own the influence kind
38:53
Speaker 1: of continues today, isn't it. Indeed, Yeah, it's it's been
39:00
Speaker 1: about how much can I get, how much can I take?
39:04
Speaker 1: And I think the masculine energy is that is that
39:07
Speaker 1: place of wanting to provide, wanting to have security. You
39:11
Speaker 1: know that those are those are engendered archetypes of masculine energy.
39:16
Speaker 1: And it's just gotten so far out of balance when
39:19
Speaker 1: when we have conversations about what God is, we don't
39:23
Speaker 1: gendify what God is because we feel like God is
39:28
Speaker 1: both and it doesn't. It isn't two means, it's one
39:32
Speaker 1: being or it is both. We're not trying to be
39:36
Speaker 1: right about that. We're not trying to start a new
39:39
Speaker 1: dogmatic blae system around that. But as really was talking
39:43
Speaker 1: about her engendering, in order to succeed in business, you
39:48
Speaker 1: had to bring about more of her masculine side to
39:52
Speaker 1: be successful in the business world. And for myself, I
39:57
Speaker 1: look at my own path and where I've been. I
39:59
Speaker 1: had to come into my ability to be vulnerable and
40:03
Speaker 1: be able to feel my feelings and put it out
40:06
Speaker 1: there that I do feel my feelings and I do
40:09
Speaker 1: shed tears. Where father passed away recently and way he
40:14
Speaker 1: was preparing to talk for the for the funeral service
40:17
Speaker 1: this Saturday, and I couldn't get through reading the talk
40:23
Speaker 1: because it's it's just for me, all of the remembrance
40:27
Speaker 1: of him and what he represented, and how how balanced
40:31
Speaker 1: he was, and as a as a Mormon man priesthood holder,
40:35
Speaker 1: how he embraced his two gay grandsons and their husbands,
40:41
Speaker 1: how he knew that and he used it and epitome
40:45
Speaker 1: of that unconditional love. I think that as we find
40:49
Speaker 1: a place to go with that, sure we've got we've
40:54
Speaker 1: got to be able to embody it in each of
40:56
Speaker 1: our genders, but yet realize it. It's the balance of both.
41:00
Speaker 1: And I'm glad to have you tell that story because
41:03
Speaker 1: my experience is that you know, as I look at
41:09
Speaker 1: the structure that we call patriarchy, I know that that
41:14
Speaker 1: structure has to shift. It is a historical necessity that
41:20
Speaker 1: we move across the plains of patriarchy into the promised
41:26
Speaker 1: land of partnership. The aldership is the word beautiful, and
41:31
Speaker 1: so that part of it is absolute in my mind.
41:37
Speaker 1: And at the same time, I look around them, all
41:40
Speaker 1: the good men that I know, the good men in
41:43
Speaker 1: my own rumanward and stake and close to me and
41:48
Speaker 1: my friends, and so many of them I admire so
41:52
Speaker 1: much because we're ready to do this. They're either doing
41:57
Speaker 1: it now in the marriages, in the photohood, in the
42:01
Speaker 1: way they interact with one another, that they're reading for partnership.
42:08
Speaker 1: And that's what's very encouraging to me. Yeah, all right,
42:17
Speaker 1: so let's go and have you read now from the book. Oh,
42:20
Speaker 1: I want to hear you read a couple of poems
42:22
Speaker 1: that you prefer to that you'd love to share from
42:25
Speaker 1: Finding Mother God. My copy sits right here. Well, let
42:34
Speaker 1: me start with this short one on page three.
42:39
Speaker 3: To one Mother.
42:40
Speaker 1: This is just to establish the fact of where we are.
42:44
Speaker 1: Remembering that Jesus named his father from the cross and
42:48
Speaker 1: say to a why hast the forsaken me? And remember
42:52
Speaker 1: read too of the Unda Kibouts. I learned that even
42:55
Speaker 1: today children speaking Hebrew call their father Abba and their
42:59
Speaker 1: mother Ama. I am amazed to find in my balancing
43:05
Speaker 1: hands two balancing words, and the first speaking of the
43:11
Speaker 1: new word is this Emma, Emma, I have been forsaken me.
43:26
Speaker 1: It's not God that has changed whatever's going on. And
43:30
Speaker 1: God is just there in masculine feminine divinity, showering love
43:37
Speaker 1: and light on us. And we at times accept a
43:41
Speaker 1: lot of it. We reject a lot of it, but
43:45
Speaker 1: we're the ones that have forsaken our mother. This is
43:54
Speaker 1: a little bit longer. A God who looks like me.
44:01
Speaker 1: I studied the drawings and the statues and the words
44:05
Speaker 1: marked God, hoping to find a face that looks like me,
44:10
Speaker 1: a female face. But they all looked like my boulders.
44:15
Speaker 1: And I love my bulders. But it's like finding an
44:17
Speaker 1: empty stocking on Christmas morning and wondering why I have
44:21
Speaker 1: not been good enough, not good enough to look like God,
44:27
Speaker 1: but not wanting to spoil the celebration from my borders.
44:30
Speaker 3: Who never notice.
44:33
Speaker 1: A voice said, come to the glove at the grove,
44:39
Speaker 1: there is always a God who looks like you. I
44:44
Speaker 1: went to the grove, and there were ribbon streams that
44:49
Speaker 1: flowed and curved, and there were trees stately and long
44:53
Speaker 1: green gowns that waved in the wind. A voice said,
44:58
Speaker 1: come to the pool. I went to the pool and
45:03
Speaker 1: I knew it, and peered into the water, still as
45:06
Speaker 1: a mirror, still as a moon, and I saw the
45:11
Speaker 1: image of God. There was one face, and then the
45:19
Speaker 1: face became too like when you steal with soft vision,
45:25
Speaker 1: and one of the faces looked like me. She said,
45:32
Speaker 1: it is wonderful to see you seeing me. He said,
45:39
Speaker 1: I am so sorry. It never was intended that she
45:43
Speaker 1: be erased. Mistakes were made. Then she said, bless you
45:51
Speaker 1: for searching until you found me. And do forgive your brothers,
45:56
Speaker 1: for they knew not what they did. But I knew,
46:00
Speaker 1: and I know, and I weep. You and I are
46:05
Speaker 1: half of heaven, and to forget that is a curse
46:10
Speaker 1: and the land. Then he said, go tell it on
46:17
Speaker 1: the mountain. If this is in their poem, I said,
46:23
Speaker 1: then go read it on the mountain. And then the
46:27
Speaker 1: two faces became one again. A question if I may,
46:34
Speaker 1: I said, hesitantly, Are you two? Or are you one?
46:43
Speaker 1: The water shimmered, and I heard a corel reading of
46:47
Speaker 1: soprano and tenor, and smile. We are one that is two,
46:55
Speaker 1: and two that are one? How can I? He said?
47:03
Speaker 1: The solitary one is primarily but often useless. Imagine that
47:09
Speaker 1: buck without a dough. Imagine this eight too without the oh,
47:18
Speaker 1: she added, or distance without time or the occasionally essential bline.
47:28
Speaker 3: Then both.
47:30
Speaker 1: We do arithmetic differently. Here a soft and rippling laugh
47:38
Speaker 1: like a kiss, as the face in the pool and
47:44
Speaker 1: the glove disappeared. It's to me it means that that's sad. Yeah,
47:57
Speaker 1: you do so much division well, and just just to
48:04
Speaker 1: we candolege the oneness. See, it's to me it's just
48:11
Speaker 1: kind of sad that we've come to be able to
48:13
Speaker 1: draw God on the blackboard. Because whatever God is, what
48:21
Speaker 1: even this phenomenon that we call God ultimately turns out
48:25
Speaker 1: to be.
48:25
Speaker 4: Just is is is without any of our getting involved,
48:30
Speaker 4: without any of our words, any of our divisions, any
48:34
Speaker 4: of our judgments, that phenomenon being whatever just is.
48:42
Speaker 1: And if we can, you know what, our brains need
48:46
Speaker 1: some kind of picturing perhaps, but if we can move
48:51
Speaker 1: above that and just live in the.
48:55
Speaker 3: Greatness of you know, whatever.
48:59
Speaker 1: Is the force behind all of them living and being,
49:05
Speaker 1: and enjoy the mystery rather than narrow it down to
49:12
Speaker 1: words and pictures, I think that would be such a
49:16
Speaker 1: wonderful thing. Can't We're always trying to figure it out
49:24
Speaker 1: an equation where there's an equal sign with an answer
49:27
Speaker 1: at the end, you can rather than just being present
49:33
Speaker 1: with what that represents absolutely and all we need to know.
49:39
Speaker 1: I think about the gender of God is that, however,
49:43
Speaker 1: that being a being or beings or a phenomenon. Whatever
49:50
Speaker 1: that is, it is in some way that is above
49:53
Speaker 1: and beyond our brains to reading he can address right now.
49:58
Speaker 1: But all of that is is some perfect balanced harmony
50:04
Speaker 1: of what we know now as maleness and femaleness, and
50:08
Speaker 1: precisely how that works.
50:10
Speaker 3: Is none of our business.
50:13
Speaker 1: In fact, to you know, you go ahead just to
50:19
Speaker 1: honor the first cause that whatever brought us all here,
50:24
Speaker 1: to honor that as equally invested in being whatever we
50:33
Speaker 1: have divided here in our minds male and female, that
50:38
Speaker 1: that would be a great blessing to everybody. We often
50:43
Speaker 1: feel that the word gender needs to go away we
50:47
Speaker 1: reach part of humanity. And how that how that is
50:51
Speaker 1: expressed is we've memed it, but that doesn't mean it's
50:56
Speaker 1: anything other than what we've named. And so it just
51:00
Speaker 1: becomes so beautiful when we can understand that the essence
51:04
Speaker 1: of God is all of us, and as you're said
51:09
Speaker 1: in that poem, it's all of us, everything and everything,
51:12
Speaker 1: and you know I am and it is me. And
51:17
Speaker 1: how the separateness that we've had to create in order
51:21
Speaker 1: to live with it is something that just is baffling
51:27
Speaker 1: because we don't have to separate it and name it
51:30
Speaker 1: to live with it right right, And you know there's
51:36
Speaker 1: one reverse that I want to read it. You know, boom.
51:43
Speaker 1: Everything we're talking about here.
51:47
Speaker 4: Is not.
51:50
Speaker 3: Trivial.
51:51
Speaker 1: It is huge. This little hoole is called paradigm shift.
52:03
Speaker 1: After three hundred and fifty nine years, the Pope acknowledge
52:08
Speaker 1: that heretic Galileo was right and the sun does not
52:12
Speaker 1: revolve around the earth. How wrong? Will but take men
52:18
Speaker 1: of the earth to acknowledge that we heretic women are
52:22
Speaker 1: right and the female does not revolve around the male.
52:28
Speaker 1: We we too have sculped the heavens, reveal the center
52:33
Speaker 1: and testify of the brilliant celestial bodies and the heavenly
52:39
Speaker 1: Him and the heavenly her. Do no or the king,
52:47
Speaker 1: no presiding, no ranking our perfect partners in the slow
52:56
Speaker 1: dance so close you would observe that we are one.
53:11
Speaker 1: That's beautiful. I'm not live magical. It is a paradigm shift,
53:20
Speaker 1: and I think more than ever we're living in a
53:23
Speaker 1: time that is as you said, there's there's people stepping
53:26
Speaker 1: forward to champion that shift, wanting that shift, starting to
53:30
Speaker 1: live that shift in their own homes and in their relationships,
53:36
Speaker 1: and wanting it to be a partnership that celebrates both
53:41
Speaker 1: and what that oneness is when you come together, and
53:44
Speaker 1: that you can't have that oneness alone. It does require
53:50
Speaker 1: partnership of both. However, both looks. We need the memership,
53:56
Speaker 1: we need the minor less would be true because we
54:00
Speaker 1: we each have a different perspective total independent of our genders.
54:05
Speaker 1: Where we each have a perspective, And how many times
54:10
Speaker 1: do we see in teachings from religion that two become one?
54:16
Speaker 1: And what does that mean? Even Christ said the Father
54:19
Speaker 1: and I are one. You talked about the beingness of God.
54:23
Speaker 1: What was the first name that God called himself itself
54:27
Speaker 1: herself in the Bible? I am. There's no gender there.
54:32
Speaker 1: I am, I just am. And that place of finding
54:37
Speaker 1: I am isn't in a Bible, in a book, or
54:41
Speaker 1: from a pulpit, or in any words. It's within our
54:44
Speaker 1: own hearts that we find that individually. We find it
54:48
Speaker 1: in being, This finding a way to be present in
54:52
Speaker 1: the present moment. This is each ancient ancient, ancient teachings.
54:58
Speaker 1: You have come through all of the cultures and religions forever,
55:03
Speaker 1: whether you call it meditation or prayer, that presence is
55:07
Speaker 1: where we find the divinity within ourselves and realize that
55:12
Speaker 1: we're a piece of that divine We're here, we're manifested,
55:17
Speaker 1: we're living a life, and life is so beautiful. The
55:22
Speaker 1: conditions were created for.
55:23
Speaker 2: That to be able to exist, so that we can
55:27
Speaker 2: walk around here and be dow podcasts.
55:30
Speaker 1: You know, when you were reading, there are moments when
55:33
Speaker 1: I could feel that you were the word, the word
55:36
Speaker 1: that you were speaking. You were the essence of that expression.
55:40
Speaker 1: It was almost as if Caroline was no longer in
55:43
Speaker 1: her body. She was the expression of that poem.
55:48
Speaker 2: Right.
55:49
Speaker 1: The poem is the expression of Caroline. It came from
55:52
Speaker 1: the music. Sometimes is the expression of you. You know,
55:55
Speaker 1: you like say, I left my body and I was
55:57
Speaker 1: in the zone. All creation is that way, and so
56:01
Speaker 1: I think that's just beautiful. How do you embody that time?
56:05
Speaker 2: Thank you?
56:06
Speaker 4: Thank you?
56:09
Speaker 1: Well, this is what I was called to do in
56:14
Speaker 1: the world. I know that, and I'm so I just
56:18
Speaker 1: unendingly grateful that I have been able to offer to
56:23
Speaker 1: a lot of people some important ways to look at
56:27
Speaker 1: things that I knew will bring us to higher ground. Yes,
56:33
Speaker 1: I'm actually the goal of everything that everyone does on
56:37
Speaker 1: this entire world is that going to bring the whole
56:42
Speaker 1: human family to higher ground. And I know that the
56:46
Speaker 1: subject that we have been discussing today is one that
56:51
Speaker 1: is absolutely essential and that is moving and will continue
56:56
Speaker 1: to move and continue to blossom because it is correct,
57:01
Speaker 1: it is correct, and it is divine, and yet will
57:06
Speaker 1: bring us to higher ground. Well my view, without it,
57:11
Speaker 1: we're we're doing because the masculine will get higher and
57:16
Speaker 1: stronger and continue and that's what brings division and war
57:21
Speaker 1: and strife because it's about taking, it's not about reciprocation,
57:27
Speaker 1: and we're talking about men. I'm talking about the masculine
57:31
Speaker 1: energy and the feminine energy has has is starting to
57:39
Speaker 1: come alive and we can sense it all around us,
57:43
Speaker 1: as you've stated so beautifully in your poems and walking
57:47
Speaker 1: into the grove into nature. But the essence of the
57:52
Speaker 1: feminine is there, it's emanating everywhere around us. Just you.
58:01
Speaker 1: I love your words, I love your poems that you
58:03
Speaker 1: can feel the essence of what you're expressing, and it's
58:09
Speaker 1: a gift. Thank you for bringing that to us, insuring
58:12
Speaker 1: with us. I'm glad there was a little spark of
58:15
Speaker 1: you industrial Utah that said something is missing. Yes, And
58:21
Speaker 1: the Eaves went on a grand adventure and it's been
58:24
Speaker 1: on that adventure ever since. We want to find what
58:27
Speaker 1: that is. I mean, I have been so fortunate to
58:31
Speaker 1: have had the opportunities to have had There were people
58:36
Speaker 1: around me who appreciated what I was doing, and I
58:42
Speaker 1: think to have this calling, and I think it was
58:46
Speaker 1: a calling that this was my little piece to put
58:51
Speaker 1: it into something that is really really important, and I'm
58:56
Speaker 1: so grateful that I have had that opportunity. It's essential.
59:01
Speaker 1: So I want to do two things. I want to
59:06
Speaker 1: ask you if we can do this again. I'm going
59:09
Speaker 1: to read a second book of yours, the Eternal Ghost
59:14
Speaker 1: or the Ghost of Eternal Polygamy, the Ghost of Eternal Polygamy.
59:18
Speaker 1: So and I want I want to come back right.
59:21
Speaker 1: I want to make sure that they know what the subtitle,
59:24
Speaker 1: because that's where if we go with that, this is
59:27
Speaker 1: the important part, the Ghost of Eternal Polygamy haunting the
59:31
Speaker 1: hearts and heaven of Mormon women and men. And that's
59:36
Speaker 1: a very very important book and in my work for
59:41
Speaker 1: Mormon women, that is maybe the best contribution I could make,
59:47
Speaker 1: because that is an something that is not being addressed
59:53
Speaker 1: and must be addressed. It just must be. But it's
59:59
Speaker 1: not being addressed right now, and there's too much anguish,
1:00:03
Speaker 1: anguish over something that should never have been. So stay tuned,
1:00:09
Speaker 1: everybody will because I will be happy to come back
1:00:11
Speaker 1: and talk about that one perfect. And then the other
1:00:15
Speaker 1: thing is I want to just what are you involved
1:00:18
Speaker 1: in today that others can either get involved with you
1:00:21
Speaker 1: or reach out to you. I know you have a website,
1:00:24
Speaker 1: so they can find you on your website. And then
1:00:27
Speaker 1: what about social media? Do you do social media? I
1:00:31
Speaker 1: am not a big social media person. I have a
1:00:34
Speaker 1: Facebook present and I frequently published something there. Recently, I'm being.
1:00:44
Speaker 3: Very, very focused.
1:00:45
Speaker 1: Just here in this room doing a project I mentioned
1:00:50
Speaker 1: my diaries. I've been doing something it only occurred to
1:00:57
Speaker 1: me recently to do. I'm going through all of those
1:01:00
Speaker 1: allies even need to play out excerpts to show my
1:01:03
Speaker 1: journey as a moving feminist woman. I love that.
1:01:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, that be awesome.
1:01:10
Speaker 1: That's just derivating to me. So right now I'm sort
1:01:14
Speaker 1: of privately closed down focusing, but that's a great project
1:01:20
Speaker 1: for us to all stay tuned to this. My gosh,
1:01:23
Speaker 1: it is, and we're going to becoming your direction. So
1:01:26
Speaker 1: maybe we can do this in person these time. That
1:01:28
Speaker 1: would be wonderful word coming right to visit family soon.
1:01:32
Speaker 1: So you read the book together, Well, let's do that. Yeah,
1:01:37
Speaker 1: we both come from plaguing me in our families, and
1:01:40
Speaker 1: we understand and feel what you're talking about. So I
1:01:43
Speaker 1: think that'd be right to explore that a little more
1:01:47
Speaker 1: teaser for upcoming episode us. Oh boy, Well, there's a
1:01:51
Speaker 1: lot to do in this world, isn't there. I'm glad
1:01:54
Speaker 1: to have people like you that are campaign and I
1:01:58
Speaker 1: am so willing to be by your side doing this
1:02:02
Speaker 1: and I'm grateful that people like you who can take
1:02:06
Speaker 1: it and form it and present it. So we all
1:02:10
Speaker 1: meet each other and I bless you, and you bless me,
1:02:14
Speaker 1: and we bless everybody as a consequence it. Thanks all us.
1:02:18
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here. Great great to
1:02:20
Speaker 1: be with you today. All right, next time Black if
1:02:25
Speaker 1: your jury observe Sorry podcast, please consider subscribing sharing us,
1:02:30
Speaker 1: and if you have time to write a review about
1:02:33
Speaker 1: something that may have affected your life or helped you
1:02:35
Speaker 1: in some way, please do so that helps us to
1:02:38
Speaker 1: get the word out and get this information out to
1:02:40
Speaker 1: meet more people so that it can be shared and
1:02:44
Speaker 1: we can help hipple out this energy that's amity in
1:02:47
Speaker 1: the world today, there's been so much separation. We want
1:02:50
Speaker 1: to find a way to create conversations where we can
1:02:54
Speaker 1: come together, not divide so much as we have been
1:02:58
Speaker 1: learn to come together in you. Thank you, you have
1:03:05
Speaker 1: been listening to the Observatory podcast. Please be sure to
1:03:09
Speaker 1: subscribe so you don't miss any more future episodes.