Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.285: Understanding and Managing Rosacea ft Jan Marini

Transcript

E.285: Understanding and Managing Rosacea ft Jan Marini · Skin Anarchy

1:58
SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: This is part two of our five-part series with the iconic and amazing Jan Marini.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: And I'm so excited you guys are tuning in again.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: I hope you love the acne episode.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: That was the first episode in this masterclass.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: And this one is going to be focused on rosacea.
2:18
SPEAKER_01: And I'm so excited to learn all about it.
2:20
SPEAKER_01: So welcome back, Jan.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to learn from you again.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's great to be here.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: I've been looking forward to this.
2:28
SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: I would love to get started with um, you know, just really addressing like just rosacea in general.
2:35
SPEAKER_01: You know, if you can get us started on this basic level understanding so that everybody listening can just kind of, you know, get an idea of what we're talking about here.
2:45
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
2:46
SPEAKER_02: Well, first of all, it is an actual disease.
2:51
SPEAKER_02: Over 16 million Americans suffer from rosacea.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: Now, that is sort of a statistic that probably is very low because unless you go to your dermatologist and unless somehow it is noted that you have rosacea, it's probably a much higher number.
3:05
SPEAKER_02: A lot of people think that they just have red skin or they just have acne.
3:08
SPEAKER_02: Now it used to be called acne rosacea, but that is an old term.
3:13
SPEAKER_02: It's actually rosacea.
3:15
SPEAKER_02: Acne and rosacea are two completely different issues.
3:18
SPEAKER_02: Now you can have acne and rosacea at the same time, but they're two different diseases.
3:23
SPEAKER_02: Typically, the onset of rosacea is between the ages of 30 and 50.
3:28
SPEAKER_02: Now, that doesn't mean you can't get it if you're younger or show some tendency toward it, or get it if you're older, but that's generally when it starts to present.
3:36
SPEAKER_02: And it's typically more prevalent in females.
3:39
SPEAKER_02: Now, do males get a rosacea?
3:41
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
3:42
SPEAKER_02: And when they do, typically it's more aggressive.
3:44
SPEAKER_02: We don't know why exactly, but we do see more of it in females.
3:48
SPEAKER_02: And usually it's most prevalent in fair skin individuals.
3:53
SPEAKER_02: Now, again, do we see rosacea in individuals that have more pigment in their skin?
3:57
SPEAKER_02: Yes, but it's not nearly as frequently.
4:00
SPEAKER_02: And a lot of times people say, Well, is this genetic?
4:03
SPEAKER_02: In a sense, it is, because you inherit your fair skin.
4:09
SPEAKER_02: But it's not just the fact that you have fair skin, you're just more vulnerable to rosacea.
4:14
SPEAKER_02: And one of the other things I want to mention there is no cure for rosacea.
4:20
SPEAKER_02: Now you can manage it.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: You can look like you don't have it.
4:23
SPEAKER_02: There's no cure for it.
4:25
SPEAKER_02: It can be progressive.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: You really need to address rosacea appropriately.
4:31
SPEAKER_01: So what is so what is a solution?
4:33
SPEAKER_01: Like what how do we approach it?
4:36
SPEAKER_02: Well, the first thing to understand about rosacea is number one, it's a chronic inflammatory disorder.
4:44
unknown: Yeah.
4:44
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it's referred to as a disease of vasomotor instability because your blood vessels are designed to expand and contract and expand and contract and expand and contract.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: And in rosacea, these blood vessels are compromised and they've lost this ability to have this flexibility.
4:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, they've lost some of their integrity.
5:01
SPEAKER_02: And so a common characteristic because of that is redness, which we associate with rosacea, or flushing and blushing.
5:10
SPEAKER_02: And then what happens is people start to get something called telangectasia.
5:15
SPEAKER_02: Now, what that means is that's a dilated capillary.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: And so the capillaries kind of look like they remain dilated, and some people call them broken capillaries.
5:22
SPEAKER_02: Well, if they were broken, you probably wouldn't see them.
5:24
SPEAKER_02: So the really dilated capillaries are telangectasia.
5:28
SPEAKER_02: And this can progress into getting um more redness, it can progress into secondary lesions that look just like acne.
5:37
SPEAKER_02: You can get them usually on the cheek area.
5:39
SPEAKER_02: But the difference between the rosacea and acne, one of the superficial differences, is you know, you can go to bed with rosacea lesions and wake up in the morning and they might be gone.
5:50
SPEAKER_02: They're kind of transient.
5:52
SPEAKER_02: But from a pathological standpoint, if you were to biopsy a rosacea lesion, it always has a microcomidone.
6:03
SPEAKER_02: You can't have rosacea without a microcomidone.
6:05
SPEAKER_02: That's the beginning of the acne process.
6:07
SPEAKER_02: In rosacea, there's no microcomidone.
6:10
SPEAKER_02: It looked just like an acne lesion, but there's no microcomidone.
6:13
SPEAKER_02: So now when we talk about a solution, second thing we've got to remember there's a misconception.
6:18
SPEAKER_02: Lots of times people refer to rosacea as sensitive skin.
6:23
SPEAKER_02: Like it's a disease of sensitivity.
6:25
SPEAKER_02: It's not a disease of sensitivity.
6:26
SPEAKER_02: You can have really sensitive skin and not have rosacea, and you can have rosacea and not be very sensitive.
6:31
SPEAKER_02: It is a disease of reactivity, and you're reactive to certain triggers.
6:37
SPEAKER_02: So if you know people that have rosacea, you know that if they have alcohol sometimes, they just really flush and blush.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: The rosacea flares up.
6:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, it could be caffeine, it could be really spicy food, it could be sitting in a stuffy room, changes of temperature and seasons.
6:53
SPEAKER_02: It's really different for different people.
6:56
SPEAKER_02: So, to talk about the solution, this is the underline factor.
7:03
SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's there's a lot of different opinions, like is it the demodexamite?
7:08
SPEAKER_02: What is it that causes rosacea?
7:10
SPEAKER_02: What it is, as far as we know, a big part of this is something called the chysillicidin protein.
7:19
SPEAKER_02: This is this is an inflammatory protein, we all have it, and actually it's a good protein because it plays a major role in wound healing.
7:27
SPEAKER_02: But if there's no target organism, if you're not healing a wound and somehow you're just producing this chissallicin protein, because the number one factor causative factor in rosacea is sun exposure.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: Um so if you're producing this protein for no apparent reason, then it's an underlying factor which creates all this inflammation and all of these other kind of issues that we associate with rosacea.
7:51
SPEAKER_02: So what we have to do is, number one, we need to down-regulate the kissillicin protein.
8:01
SPEAKER_02: Now, typically, you go to see a dermatologist, usually what they do, one of the things they do is they prescribe antibiotics.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: Right.
8:09
SPEAKER_02: Not because there's a target organism, but because what does an antibiotic do?
8:13
SPEAKER_02: Well, it's anti-inflammatory.
8:15
SPEAKER_02: So it helps to downregulate that.
8:18
SPEAKER_02: But in terms of topically, because most people don't want to be on antibiotic therapy indefinitely, in terms of what we can do topically, there's some real game changers.
8:30
SPEAKER_02: So, first of all, number one, it's the skin care management system.
8:38
SPEAKER_02: And that's one of the reasons is because, first of all, it's very, very anti-inflammatory.
8:44
SPEAKER_02: Um believe it or not, some of the number one tools in the physician's arsenal today for this skin disorder are things like glycolic acid.
8:55
SPEAKER_03: Oh, wow.
8:56
SPEAKER_02: Aslaic acid.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: Aslaic acid, for example, is sold by prescription for rosacea and for acne and for it's also used for anti-aging as well as glycolic, salicylic.
9:07
SPEAKER_02: All those things are incredibly anti-inflammatory, and they have other benefits besides that in terms of resurfacing the skin, because along with rosacea, you know, you can get into um sometimes the pores enlarge, the oil glands enlarge, you can get an orange-pale-looking skin.
9:26
SPEAKER_02: So it this is able to address so many of those issues.
9:32
SPEAKER_02: Second thing is a skin care management system, and the second thing is is that it's rosoleave.
9:41
SPEAKER_02: And roseolave is used with the skin care management system.
9:45
SPEAKER_02: It's specifically for rosacea, but one of the technologies that it has in it, it has a peptide that actually helps to downregulate the kysillosidin protein.
9:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's interesting.
10:02
SPEAKER_01: So why?
10:03
SPEAKER_01: So, okay, I I have one question.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: I want to back up a little bit because I know, you know, on Reddit, like I think I was talking to you about this, Jen.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, on Reddit, I see so many people who will post pictures, right?
10:13
SPEAKER_01: And they're like, oh, these are little bumps that just came up.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: And this really makes me think what what you've explained so far, because many times they're like, oh, is this eczema?
10:24
SPEAKER_01: Is this rosacea?
10:25
SPEAKER_01: Is this acne?
10:26
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, if you have the bumps, you know, what should we do?
10:31
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, how do you approach that as like the first thing to do when you when you notice that on your skin?
10:37
SPEAKER_02: Well, usually you're going to notice other things before that.
10:40
SPEAKER_02: That comes further down the pike, so to speak.
10:44
SPEAKER_02: But those secondary lesions are strictly from inflammatory causes, but you've got to treat them because they can actually leave shallow scars.
10:52
SPEAKER_02: And so what so it's using anti-inflammatories, and that's why the skincare management system is so important.
11:00
SPEAKER_02: That's why rose leave is so important.
11:03
SPEAKER_02: And also one of the things that's difficult about rosacea is that you have to really control your lifestyle.
11:10
SPEAKER_02: Nobody wants to do that.
11:11
SPEAKER_02: You know, we're willing to take a pill or we're willing to put something on our skin.
11:14
SPEAKER_02: But if I say, gee, you know, you may have to stay away from your favorite alcoholic beverages.
11:20
SPEAKER_03: Right.
11:20
SPEAKER_02: You may not be able to have that spicy food that you enjoy.
11:24
SPEAKER_02: Maybe your trigger, one of your triggers could be caffeine.
11:29
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: Some people that some people the triggers are sugar or avocados or berries, or something that's just uh you you wouldn't even necessarily think of as a more obvious trigger.
11:44
SPEAKER_02: And it's not necessarily where you have that food or you do that activity and then you see a result right away.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes your skin is pretty stable, and then two or three days later, all of a sudden you have a really bad flare-up.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
12:00
SPEAKER_01: No, that makes it makes sense.
12:02
SPEAKER_01: And it's, you know, interesting, you know, interestingly, like the food aspect is just something I'm I'm really learning about um as we do this masterclass because I know you had brought it up as well for the acne portion.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, when it comes to foods, I I don't think people really sit down and think about, well, what am I eating and is it really something that my body is reacting to?
12:22
SPEAKER_01: You know, do I am I having some sort of inflammatory reaction?
12:26
SPEAKER_01: So that's very, very interesting to me.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: Now, I do I do want to know though, because you had brought up to the blood vessel um, you know, issue, right, with the capillaries.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: And I'm wondering, is there a laser or device treatment that helps with that?
12:40
SPEAKER_01: Because when, you know, when I think of um blood vessels, I'm always thinking of like, you know, like varicose veins, and we have like laser treatments for stuff like that, right?
12:47
SPEAKER_01: So is there any laser device for rosacea that can be used?
12:51
SPEAKER_02: Yes, now this doesn't cure the rosacea, it doesn't address necessarily the issues that cause rosacea, but what it does is it's a cosmetic fix.
13:02
SPEAKER_02: And there are different lasers, but probably the the device that's most commonly used is something called IPL, intense pulsed light.
13:11
SPEAKER_02: And intense pulsed light is a device that actually isn't a true laser.
13:16
SPEAKER_02: Now you still go to a doctor, but it is a device that is attracted to either red or brown in the skin.
13:25
SPEAKER_02: So it bypasses the surface, it's not ablative, it's not a laser where you know you have to recover in terms of your skin having been ablated and you're going to be kind of raw and peeling.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: So it can go after brown discoloration, but it also can be filtered to go after red.
13:43
SPEAKER_02: And what it does is it addresses those little vascular structures.
13:47
SPEAKER_02: Now, typically it takes about three to five sessions, and they're spaced around four to six weeks apart.
13:55
SPEAKER_02: But the good news is most of the time, if you're just doing the facial area, it's only around 250 to 350 a session.
14:03
SPEAKER_02: It's not something that's outrageously expensive.
14:07
SPEAKER_02: And it's not, it's not permanent.
14:09
SPEAKER_02: So let's just say that you have your five sessions and you get to the point where you say, Wow, I really look so much better.
14:17
SPEAKER_02: You might have to revisit going to for IPL.
14:23
SPEAKER_02: Maybe it depends on your skin.
14:25
SPEAKER_02: It could be once a quarter, it could be once or twice every six months.
14:29
SPEAKER_02: You might have to have a couple of sessions, maybe once a year.
14:31
SPEAKER_02: Depends on your personal point of which where you're at in in your rosacea journey, so to speak.
14:40
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
14:41
SPEAKER_01: No, that makes sense.
14:42
SPEAKER_01: And you know, um, I I'm just wondering because I think because people really run to this idea of you know laser treatment or just really kind of um I I would say invasive uh techniques, more so than than skincare.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: And it always concerns me a little bit because I think oftentimes it's happening without them really understanding their disorder or their disease.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: So I'm really glad that you're you clarified that.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: Now, in terms of um, you know, acne with rosacea, how do we do how do we uh treat that?
15:12
SPEAKER_01: Because I know a lot of people obviously will have acne, but then if they have rosacea, it could get very confusing.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: So how is that treated?
15:20
SPEAKER_02: So you again, they can be present at the same time.
15:23
SPEAKER_02: Typically in adults, it's going to be where you have, if you have acne, it's gonna be on the chin, jaw, perioral, and the rosacea would be more in the cheek area.
15:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, but you can actually treat them simultaneously because if you had acne, what I would do is I would say to you, you need to use a skincare management system and you need to use duality.
15:42
SPEAKER_02: And duality, even though it has specifically things in it for rosacea, it's not gonna, or excuse me, for acne, it's not gonna harm the rosacea, it might even be helpful.
15:54
SPEAKER_02: And it also has retinol in it, and which we know is very, very helpful for rosacea.
16:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, once you kind of get it to that point where you're under a little bit more under control.
16:08
SPEAKER_02: And by the way, one thing I want to mention, you know, it's really important.
16:12
SPEAKER_02: I always tell people, even if you've seen a non-physician practitioner who says, Yeah, I think you have rosacea, and even if you feel like they're offering you a solution that's really helpful, you really need to get it validated medically.
16:27
SPEAKER_02: And the reason is is because in about 47% of the cases, ocular rosacea is present.
16:32
SPEAKER_03: Oh, wow.
16:33
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes that's referred to as bleperitis, but ocular rosacea can be treated very easily.
16:39
SPEAKER_02: And it's it many times mistaken for seasonal allergies or just my eyes are irritated.
16:43
SPEAKER_02: But the thing is, is if it progresses and if it goes untreated, it can actually lead to blindness.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
16:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we learn about blepyritis in uh you know in the in medical training, but I didn't know that rosacea can be in that region, you know, so much in the eye region.
17:01
SPEAKER_01: I I've actually met a few people that have very red eyes and they're like, oh, it's just allergies.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, are you sure?
17:08
SPEAKER_01: It's been there for a while now.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: But um, that that's so interesting.
17:12
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, in terms of like that, like if you if you have it spreading to like the eye area and stuff, is that where we like, I mean, what do we do then?
17:20
SPEAKER_01: Do we go towards the laser stuff or do we just, you know, stick to the skincare and the and the food, you know, managing our diet and stuff like that?
17:29
SPEAKER_02: Well, first of all, if you have ocular, you can actually if I had a a nephew that presented with ocular rosacea when he was 15 years old.
17:38
SPEAKER_02: He did not have facial rosacea.
17:40
SPEAKER_02: So it doesn't necessarily have to go hand in hand, but it usually does.
17:43
SPEAKER_02: But it can be treated very ocular rosacea can be treated very easily.
17:47
SPEAKER_02: And you can still treat your facial rosacea, but you know, it's oftentimes treated with eye drops or there are other certain methodology depending on the person and the severity.
17:56
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: Okay, that makes sense.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and in in terms of the diet, I'm very, very curious because I know you had mentioned like it can be varying based on who um, you know, like just basically whatever foods are suiting us as individuals or not.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: But I would love to get your um advice on like just general foods and a diet that could really help with rosacea, that everyone can really utilize, um, you know, those kind of tips and incorporate them in their diet.
18:24
SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, I don't think that anyone, at least from a medical perspective, has actually come up with a quote, rosacea diet, which would be great if we had something that had specific medical evidence that eating a certain way would be really helpful.
18:40
SPEAKER_02: So, number one, um, gonna tell you a couple of things.
18:43
SPEAKER_02: So, number one, you want to avoid your triggers.
18:45
SPEAKER_02: And again, the common triggers, which can be different for different people.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: I had a sister-in-law who could drink white wine, but her rosacea would go nuts with red wine.
18:56
SPEAKER_02: And for a lot of people, it's they can't have any alcohol.
18:59
SPEAKER_02: And for some individuals, it's again, it's spicy food.
19:03
SPEAKER_02: It's it's things that seem to trigger this reactive protein.
19:09
SPEAKER_02: Now, with that said, it's inflammatory.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: And as I mentioned, rosacea is an inflammatory disorder.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: And so when you eat in a the least inflammatory way, probably you're going to get uh much better control.
19:27
SPEAKER_02: And that would be if we just cut to the chase, that would be low carb.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: Like I was thinking about gluten.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: I was like, you know, when we we talk about like anti-inflammatory diets, I'm always automatically like thinking about dairy, gluten, carbs, that yeah, that makes sense what you're saying.
19:47
SPEAKER_01: Um so basically cut down on that, right?
19:50
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, when we I think gluten can be a culprit for a lot of people, and I'm not a big fan of gluten, but a lot of times it has to do with just the fact that the things that we put gluten in tend to be much higher carb based.
20:05
SPEAKER_02: So as an example, and I use you've heard me, you may have heard me use this before, but you could you could look at a piece of the best whole wheat bread that you can possibly get your hands on that you think is really healthy, and and you could look at a quarter cup of sugar, which one turns into more sugar when you ingest it?
20:25
SPEAKER_02: The bread will actually turn into more sugar, and that's known as the glycemic load, the glycemic load.
20:31
SPEAKER_02: So it's not just the glycemic index, it's not just looking on a label and saying, well, you know, how many carbs does this have?
20:37
SPEAKER_02: And what is it on the glycemic index?
20:39
SPEAKER_02: The glycemic load is how much sugar your body turns it into once you ingest it, and how it puts it literally into every cell in your body.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: And so whether somebody has rosacea or not, I think it's really smart to eat low carb.
20:54
SPEAKER_02: And more and more, um, I think that medical research is kind of going in that direction, and there are some things that are really starting to validate that.
21:03
SPEAKER_02: Even if we have really good researchers that have great evidence and they truly believe it, sometimes we don't have the long-term studies necessarily to support it.
21:14
SPEAKER_02: Um but I think it's going in that direction, and so it's good in general, it's good from an aging standpoint.
21:20
SPEAKER_02: We know that it's good from a standpoint if you, you know, have heart disease, if you have arthritis, uh, all of these things that it may be helpful for, um, protective against these kinds of sort of opportunistic aging diseases.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: Right.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: No, it it it really actually, um, in the grand scheme of things, it it adds up because I think, you know, when we're talking about these kind of skin conditions, you know, I can't help but to think of other like just autoimmune disorders or just inflammatory conditions, like you said, you know, arthritis is a big one.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: I know that with age, there are just so many that come, especially, you know, in women.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: Like, for example, you they'll develop things like uh Hashimoto's or they'll develop you know some sort of thyroid.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Disorder, um, you know, in general.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: So this really makes sense.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: Um is there now I want to know, is there some sort of um climate, you know, uh kind of factor when we think about rosacea?
22:13
SPEAKER_01: Like I know we're approaching the spring and summer months now.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: So is there some sort of factor there in terms of weather, you know, temperature, all that?
22:23
SPEAKER_02: So it's really individual because some people with rosacea don't do well in humid climates.
22:30
SPEAKER_02: And some people with rosacea don't do well in really dry climates, or if the weather's really cold or the weather's really hot.
22:37
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think with allergies, it's it does cause some people the rosacea to flare up more because again, it can create sort of an inflammation or reactive kind of syndrome.
22:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, so it it's just, and it's one of these diseases.
22:53
SPEAKER_02: As much as we know about it in terms of the causative factors and some of the things that we can do to lessen the uh the issues that are associated with it, um, it's still very mysterious.
23:07
SPEAKER_02: It's a mysterious disease.
23:09
SPEAKER_02: And there are there are different types of rosacea.
23:13
SPEAKER_02: We don't even have time to go into that, but there's like rosacea fuminins and rosacea congivlata.
23:17
SPEAKER_02: The only way that you can get them to calm down at all is with accutane.
23:22
SPEAKER_02: Oh, and I think they look horrific.
23:24
SPEAKER_02: I mean, if I showed you a picture, you would be horrified.
23:28
SPEAKER_02: And with rosacea fuminins, literally within a matter of sometimes days, you can go from having perfectly clear skin to having this unbelievable condition.
23:41
SPEAKER_02: And there's there's again subtypes of rosacea.
23:44
SPEAKER_02: We've we've probably heard of rhinophila.
23:46
SPEAKER_02: Now, rhinophina kind of gets this bad name because if you look at somebody, like maybe W.C.
23:56
SPEAKER_02: Phils, another one that comes to mind who's also a celebrity was Carl Malden.
24:01
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if anybody even remembers these guys, but they had large, bulbous, reddish noses, and they also kind of look pitted.
24:10
SPEAKER_02: And when we see that, what we do is we say, Well, they must be an alcoholic.
24:15
SPEAKER_02: Alcohol can irritate rosacea, it can exacerbate it, but it's not a causative factor per se.
24:23
SPEAKER_02: And rhinophymia is actually a subset of rosacea that typically only presents in men on the nose area, and it can cause the nose to enlarge, and in terms of having um looking very pitted and having tissue, extra tissue.
24:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, one of the pictures that I used to show when I used to lecture sometimes at conferences, I'd show a picture of a gentleman that had rhinophymma, and he literally had, I mean, an appendage hanging off his nose that looked like a trunk.
24:53
SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
24:54
SPEAKER_02: Now the interesting thing is you can take a laser and you can shape that and and get rid of it very nicely and have a nice outcome.
25:02
SPEAKER_02: But the point is, is how do you, you know, control it?
25:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: And also, like, how do you prevent rosacea?
25:12
SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, rosacea, like what I'm learning here is that it's it's a lot more unpredictable than acne, you know, and it's a lot more harder to figure out just by looking in the mirror.
25:24
SPEAKER_01: So what can we do that's going to help prevent this?
25:27
SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, if we're taking those measures, I feel like if you if you're doing preventative things in your life and then something happens, you're more likely to go to a doctor, right?
25:36
SPEAKER_01: Because you're going to be like, well, I've checked off these boxes.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: So now I know I need to go to a doctor immediately to figure out what's going on.
25:43
SPEAKER_01: So I would love for you to tell us about some preventative measures.
25:46
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so number one thing, this should be a clue.
25:52
SPEAKER_02: So I said it happens more frequently in fair skin individuals.
25:56
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
25:57
SPEAKER_02: And the reason is is because the number one causative factor is sun exposure.
26:02
SPEAKER_02: Now, most of the things that we see that sun exposure causes and exacerbates get programmed into our skin before the age of 10.
26:13
SPEAKER_02: So it takes 10, 20, 30 years to show up.
26:17
SPEAKER_02: So individuals that are fair skinned, anybody should be wearing your sunscreen, but individuals that are fair skin in particular, you have less pigment, you're much more vulnerable.
26:27
SPEAKER_02: And I have something that I kind of coined pre-stage one rosacea.
26:31
SPEAKER_02: And this, these are individuals that may be showing early signs of basomotor instability, or that they have a tendency to develop rosacea.
26:41
SPEAKER_02: So let's say you've got somebody, maybe they're in their late teens or their early 20s, and they get really excited or they have spicy food and they turn very red and it kind of goes down into the chest area.
26:56
SPEAKER_02: Maybe they stay red for 10 minutes and then it's gone.
26:59
SPEAKER_02: See if they're showing signs of vasomotor instability.
27:01
SPEAKER_02: So those are individuals that are at risk for fosacea.
27:04
SPEAKER_02: They may be individuals that even though they weren't sunbath, they had a lot of cumulative sun exposure growing up.
27:10
SPEAKER_02: And like a lot of us, our parents didn't put sunscreen on us.
27:13
SPEAKER_02: So the number one thing that you can do is to protect your skin because what it happens is it creates passive dilation, it creates all kinds of issues that be beyond just uh the tendency for it to uh create fine lines and wrinkles and all the things that we hope we can stave off.
27:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, but all of those kinds of issues can help to create or exacerbate the factors that go along with rosacea.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, you know, the it's interesting to me because when it comes to vessel um mediated anything, there's this thing where, you know, we learn about like how you could have leaky vessels, you know, and they're too dilated.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: And then that can exacerbate the whole anti or the whole inflammation process.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: And and so this really is very, very interesting for me to learn that it's such a you know, it's a vasomator vasomotor uh problem and um you know how to really go about that because you know, as you know, you know, there are a lot of downstream effects of any kind of vessel disease.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it could it could lead to a lot of different things.
28:26
SPEAKER_02: So and you know, I think that they're exploring is that is it possibly autoimmune related?
28:33
SPEAKER_02: I think that there are a lot of things that could be autoimmune related that aren't necessarily what we think of as an autoimmune issue, for example, like where if somebody has alopecia and we lose our hair or psoriasis and it it attacks our skin cells, but it doesn't have to be necessarily something that is that sort of in that kind of a specific box.
28:53
SPEAKER_02: But we we really just don't know at this point, and um I think that um over time, hopefully, we'll come up with more information, more options.
29:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I I want to know though, because I, you know, you had mentioned that that obviously, you know, on lighter skin shows up uh more prominently.
29:16
SPEAKER_01: But like if you do have dark skin, like very deep dark skin, right?
29:20
SPEAKER_01: And then you're noticing changes, you know, um just things that just don't seem right.
29:26
SPEAKER_01: Like what what are some things that you know people with darker skin should really look out for um in terms of rosacea?
29:33
SPEAKER_01: Like, how can we spot it if it's happening?
29:36
SPEAKER_02: It's really it's it's much more rare to see it in really dark skin.
29:39
SPEAKER_02: Now, I consulted once with an African-American physician who was very fair skinned and she had rosacea, but it's really much less likely that we're going to see it, but it's harder to diagnose because you don't see necessarily the flushing, blushing, or redness.
29:55
SPEAKER_02: So it could be secondary lesions, and this is where it it it it had, you know, really having a professional, a medical professional, be able to diagnose that.
30:04
SPEAKER_02: And the other thing is interesting, you know, when you were talking about um in the future and and the you know, kind of these things that are related to it, at one point they thought that ulcers were related, or that I should say rosacea was related to ulcers.
30:23
SPEAKER_02: Now this is an this is really interesting.
30:27
SPEAKER_02: So we used to think that ulcers, we didn't we didn't exactly know what caused them.
30:32
SPEAKER_02: Then we realized that for the most part, they're probably caused by H.
30:35
SPEAKER_02: pylori bacteria.
30:36
SPEAKER_02: And so you take antibiotics for it, right?
30:39
SPEAKER_02: Well, let's say you had an ulcer and you happen to have rosacea, so you take the antibiotic for the ulcer and then all of a sudden your rosacea gets better.
30:46
SPEAKER_02: And so therefore you make to have this relationship.
30:49
SPEAKER_02: Well, it must be somehow connected with the ulcer.
30:51
SPEAKER_02: It just is that antibiotics make are anti-inflammatories, and so they definitely help to downregulate a lot of the issues associated with rosacea, including the redness, and so it looks better and it's less reactive, et cetera, et cetera.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: Wow, I didn't know that.
31:08
SPEAKER_02: That's so cool.
31:11
SPEAKER_02: It's not really related ulcers, it's one of those sort of those those little tribularies that you go down that don't really pay off.
31:18
SPEAKER_02: Um, and the other thing that's uh helps with a lot of people because you know there are some people, for example, that are just I mean, unbelievable flushers and blushers.
31:30
SPEAKER_02: They actually have to take beta blockers.
31:32
SPEAKER_02: And um, one of the things that um we found out is that besides IPL, is that they can go on a low-dose antibiotic.
31:47
SPEAKER_02: Now, what this is, it's it's a drug called erasia.
31:51
SPEAKER_02: It's actually doxycycline.
31:52
SPEAKER_02: Now, erasia is the brand name, and it's 40 milligrams of doxycycline that's time released, and it's submicrobial.
32:02
SPEAKER_02: So, in other words, if you took this for an infection, it's not going to do any good.
32:05
SPEAKER_02: And you can't, they've never had anybody develop antibiotic resistance from this or get vaginitis or any of those kinds of things.
32:10
SPEAKER_02: So it's strictly an anti-inflammatory.
32:14
SPEAKER_02: Now, since that has gone off a patent, you can get regular doxycycline at 40 milligrams time release, which is much, much less expensive and your insurance is likely to pay for.
32:28
SPEAKER_02: But for individuals that have really stubborn rosacea and the flushing and the blushing and just the persistent redness, this is something that they can kind of keep in their back pocket that they can do on a consistent basis every day without having to worry about antibiotic resistance.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's so interesting.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: I didn't I didn't know that they were able to do that with um microdosing basically of antibiotics.
32:53
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
32:54
SPEAKER_02: Now it doesn't mean that you don't have to do things topically because it's really important.
32:59
SPEAKER_02: And again, it's so important.
33:01
SPEAKER_02: I I tell people with rosacea, I don't care if you're opening your door and reaching outside to get the newspaper, you better have sunscreen on and you need to wear it inside.
33:10
SPEAKER_01: Right.
33:11
SPEAKER_01: Right.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: Because obviously, you know, it's it's it's good, yeah, you know, sunscreen is such a it's such a slippery slope for me, Jen, honestly, because I feel like everyone's like, well, I don't need sunscreen.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: I'm inside the house.
33:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm in, but it's like, you know, we have to really, I think, come to this place for our skin health where we realize like if you have very fair skin, you're gonna get exposed to sun no matter what you do.
33:34
SPEAKER_01: So you have to really make that decision of, you know, am I trying to protect my skin or am I not?
33:39
SPEAKER_01: And so I I'm glad that you said that, you know, about the sunscreen, because a lot of people are still on that fence of, well, I'm not going outside.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: So I'm not gonna slather on the sunscreen, I'm not gonna take all these preventative measures.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: But this really makes me think 10 times, you know, if if you're if you don't know what's happening to your skin, if all of a sudden it's red, you know, you you have to figure out what's going on.
34:01
SPEAKER_01: So that's very interesting.
34:03
SPEAKER_02: Well, UCLA School of Medicine within the last year did a pretty in-depth study in which they determined that you get a huge amount of UV radiation through the windows into your house.
34:16
SPEAKER_02: And one study prior to that, actually, if you, for example, let's say you're you know at home during the week and you keep the blinds open and keep lots of nice sunlight coming in, that's about the equivalent to a weekend on the beach.
34:29
SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
34:31
SPEAKER_02: So you really need to wear your sunscreen, and it it's just, you know, I cannot, I cannot stress that enough.
34:38
SPEAKER_02: And also, when it comes to sunscreen, there's this misconception that somehow a zinc oxide sunscreen or a so-called uh non-chemical sunscreen is somehow going to be better.
34:51
SPEAKER_02: Now, sunscreens are over-the-counter drugs, and they have to be they're they they're highly scrutinized, highly regulated by the FDA.
35:01
SPEAKER_02: So when you make a sunscreen, you manufacture it, it has to go to an outside lab, it's sort of sort of like an FDA-approved lab, to be able to make the claims that you make.
35:12
SPEAKER_02: They test it.
35:14
SPEAKER_02: And they don't know whether they're testing a chemical screen or they're testing a non-chemical screen.
35:21
SPEAKER_02: They have no idea.
35:22
SPEAKER_02: All they know is that, hey, it covers this, it covers that, or it doesn't.
35:26
SPEAKER_02: Now, when we there's a study that where they took an SPF 12 uh and it one was uh zinc oxide, basically, you know, zinc oxide and non-chemical sunscreens, and the other one was primarily for the UVA range.
35:45
SPEAKER_02: It was um parsell 1789, which is oxygenzone.
35:50
SPEAKER_02: Now what they found was that in terms of immune function protection, which is really important.
35:57
SPEAKER_02: So we're not talking about, you know, did I turn red?
36:00
SPEAKER_02: We're talking about the body's ability to be able to put into place certain factors to be able to address the cascading effect and all the inflammation and all of that.
36:11
SPEAKER_02: Um, but in terms of immune function protection, the zinc was only the equivalent of about an SPF2, whereas the parsell actually multiplied to something like a 45.
36:24
unknown: What?
36:25
SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
36:26
SPEAKER_02: So not all sunscreens are treated equal.
36:28
SPEAKER_02: One other thing I want to say is that the biggest reason people don't wear sunscreens is not because they're stupid, it's because they don't like how they feel.
36:36
SPEAKER_02: And so we come up with all kinds of excuses to sort of justify that.
36:40
SPEAKER_02: And if you wear a sunscreen that you feel like your skin feels better with it on than without it, they wear it all the time.
36:49
SPEAKER_02: And that's one of the reasons why I created like we've we've got four different sunscreens.
36:53
SPEAKER_02: My favorite happens to be our SPF33, antioxidant daily face protectant.
36:57
SPEAKER_02: But all these sunscreens that we make they have an oil capture system.
37:03
SPEAKER_02: And this is a microscopic system that has an unlimited capacity to go after oil, but it can't go after the actives, it cannot go after the water.
37:15
SPEAKER_02: It it so it only goes after oil.
37:18
SPEAKER_02: And if you've got dry skin, it leaves it incredibly soft and silky.
37:21
SPEAKER_02: And if you've got kind of a combination to oily skin, it balances it out, it makes it feel better than if you weren't wearing anything.
37:28
SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't interfere with you know foundation if you wear foundation, doesn't make your eyes sting.
37:33
SPEAKER_02: So it's really if you have something that you feel confident that doesn't make you break out and is compatible with what else you use, then you're gonna wear it.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
37:47
SPEAKER_01: And you know, that's my problem too with sunscreen.
37:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna lie.
37:51
SPEAKER_01: It's about the feel of it.
37:53
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, even if it doesn't, everyone talks about, you know, white cast this, white cast that.
37:57
SPEAKER_01: But for me, it's exactly what you said.
37:59
SPEAKER_01: If I don't like the feel of it, I'm not gonna put it on every day.
38:03
SPEAKER_01: So that's that's really, really interesting.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I actually want with this episode, everyone listening.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: I I'm going to actually um put a picture up of some of uh Jan's products that are really, really geared towards this um this topic because I think people are so confused these days with, you know, where to go to, what do we get, you know, how do we get buy the right products?
38:25
SPEAKER_01: And so this is such a sensitive topic, I feel like with rotation.
38:28
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm not gonna lie, like like I said on Reddit, on forums, all I see is people confused.
38:34
SPEAKER_01: And and the world we live in, I feel like in terms of diet and everything, everyone's eating more inflammatory diets.
38:40
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna lie, you know, you you go out with friends, you have a lot of alcohol one night, you know, yeah, it's just such an imbalance in your overall system.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, with all these other environmental factors, it's very important to have targeted skincare that you can really rely on.
38:56
SPEAKER_01: And so I would love to post up your suggestions, uh Jan, uh, with this episode, because I think a lot of people will benefit from that.
39:04
SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, you're you're so right.
39:05
SPEAKER_02: And there's so many misconceptions.
39:07
SPEAKER_02: For example, again, the biggest misconception saying it's a disease of sensitivity.
39:11
SPEAKER_02: So people think, well, I need to use botanicals and I need to use things that I think are supposedly non-chemical and very gentle.
39:17
SPEAKER_02: Well, the fact is that you don't have receptor sites for botanicals, and sometimes they can be the most inflammatory, most reactive things that come in contact with your skin.
39:25
SPEAKER_02: It depends on the product.
39:26
SPEAKER_02: But to give you an example, Rosalieve, which we mentioned using with the skincare management system, this was presented back just before COVID when we were still going to medical conferences.
39:37
SPEAKER_02: So it was the largest at the largest laser conference in the United States, the ALMS.
39:42
SPEAKER_02: And um, it was presented at podium.
39:45
SPEAKER_02: So one of the physicians talked about rosacea and lasers, but also talked about rosal leave and how when patients were on the skin care management system in Rosaleaf, that they actually had as good or better result after two laser treatments than if they went for the entire laser for the five treatments.
40:05
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
40:05
SPEAKER_01: So what is it about the rosa leaf?
40:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: But what is it about rosa leaf?
40:13
SPEAKER_01: I mean, have they studied it yet in terms of like what is actually causing this amazing result?
40:17
SPEAKER_01: You know?
40:18
SPEAKER_02: Well, again, it has some gold standard technology in it, like azoleic acid and some things like that.
40:26
SPEAKER_02: That you know, azolake acid again is sold by prescription for rosacea.
40:29
SPEAKER_02: It has a lot of anti-inflammatories, but it has a peptide that downregulates the kissillicidin protein.
40:34
SPEAKER_02: So that's where it's really a game changer.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: It's really, really, you know, that's it's a game changer to have this conversation because I don't think I've ever had an explanation.
40:45
SPEAKER_01: You know, there's a lot of people that reach out to me, you know, just because of skincare anarchy, I'm not a dermatologist, but they're always confused about rosacea and I I don't think anyone really understands this level of you know information um when it comes to this to this specific disease and how to approach it, you know.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: That's the biggest thing.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: I I often see people doing like peels and like, you know, or they'll want to do masks or just put more stuff on their skin.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, you know, I don't I I it's very hard to get consumers away from this idea, you know, of just let less products are sometimes often the best.
41:22
SPEAKER_01: So I would I want your advice on that, you know, for everyone listening that might have rosacea or you have a family member that suffers from it, you know, what what should we do, you know, in terms of skincare?
41:33
SPEAKER_01: Just should we lay it off the skincare or should we just completely throw everything out and you know, refocus our routine?
41:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh, what's your suggestions?
41:42
SPEAKER_02: I I don't think it's less.
41:43
SPEAKER_02: I think it's the right skin care.
41:46
SPEAKER_02: In other words, it's really finding the practitioner that is able to work with you in terms of the topical agents that are going to dramatically make a difference in the appearance of rosacea, as well as address your other other skin concerns.
42:04
SPEAKER_02: You know, people that have rosacea, they're still concerned about maybe they have fine lines and wrinkles, maybe they have brown discoloration, maybe they have large pores, maybe they have acne.
42:13
SPEAKER_02: There are a whole host of skin concerns that individuals can have, even though maybe rosacea may be their number one concern.
42:20
SPEAKER_02: And the thing is that we can address every one of those concerns while we're addressing rosacea.
42:29
SPEAKER_02: And a lot of times that's where individuals get very discouraged because they think, you know, I can't put anything on my skin.
42:35
SPEAKER_02: Not only is my rosacea not getting better, but I still have all my other skin concerns.
42:41
SPEAKER_02: And so really it's being able to address those concerns, and this is the thing that I always say to people is you when you're talking about skincare, whether it's rosacea, whatever it is that you want to address, you ask yourself this question if there was something I could change or improve about my skin, what would it be?
43:02
SPEAKER_02: Now, people usually will give their number one concern.
43:05
SPEAKER_02: So it could be rosacea, it could be acne, I could be I have brown spots, I have large pores.
43:09
SPEAKER_02: Then you say to yourself, what else would I like to change or improve?
43:12
SPEAKER_02: Typically, you come up with three or four different concerns.
43:16
SPEAKER_02: And think about how you would feel about your skin if you could address every one of those concerns.
43:21
SPEAKER_02: And that's what we do.
43:22
SPEAKER_02: It's all about solutions.
43:23
SPEAKER_02: It's not about the latest, greatest fad or trend.
43:28
SPEAKER_02: It's not about somebody telling you how wonderful this product feels on your skin.
43:34
SPEAKER_02: Is it going to actually be able to address your concerns?
43:37
SPEAKER_02: And the average female has over$600 in product in her bathroom she doesn't use.
43:41
SPEAKER_02: And that's a really low number.
43:42
SPEAKER_02: That's an old statistic.
43:44
SPEAKER_02: Because you buy something that runs$50,$75, you try it, you try it for a while, it doesn't do what it said it do it's going to do, or it irritates your skin.
43:52
SPEAKER_02: And so you stick it on the shelf because you can't really throw it away because you're throwing away$75 into the trash can.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: I don't know what we think.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: Maybe we think it's going to work better in six months.
44:03
SPEAKER_02: But it's really about addressing solutions.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
44:10
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
44:10
SPEAKER_01: And it's about buying products that are backed by scientists and people who know their science.
44:17
SPEAKER_01: And let's let's be real.
44:19
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I think that it's great.
44:21
SPEAKER_01: It's a beautiful thing to be, you know, an entrepreneur these days, especially in the skin health category.
44:27
SPEAKER_01: But you know, what people consider to be green skincare or clean skincare is just it's a misnomer.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
44:34
SPEAKER_01: It it's not the solution to everything that is wrong with your skin.
44:40
SPEAKER_01: You really have to approach it with this fine lens and just really look at what's going on and who can I go to that knows what they're talking about, you know.
44:49
SPEAKER_01: And I I find that consumers, in especially in the day of TikTok and the age of TikTok and all these like, you know, instant gratification, dopamine-inducing, you know, social media trends, people don't stop and take a pause and really think about that, right?
45:03
SPEAKER_01: And then and that I think that's really at the the heart of you know, just exacerbating conditions like this.
45:10
SPEAKER_01: And you know, so I I find this to be very interesting, and I urge everybody listening, you know, if you are again somebody who suffers from rosacea and or you have multiple skin pathologies, you know, really, you know, study what Jan is telling us here because you know, this is really how you cure a disease.
45:28
SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you go to a doctor for diabetes, they're not gonna be like, oh, well, take this homeopathic, you know, whatever.
45:35
SPEAKER_01: They're gonna be like, no, this is you're gonna get on metformin, you know, we're gonna regulate your insulin, we're gonna do this, like it's a protocol, right?
45:42
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like in skin health, there also needs to be that protocol, like you explained here, you know, with Rosa.
45:48
SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, Ekta, you said some things really, really interesting.
45:53
SPEAKER_02: And there's such a trend today toward things that are supposedly non-chemical, or if you want to use the term organic, which really means derived from carbon, so therefore item is organic.
46:06
SPEAKER_02: Um, but there can be a lot of toxins in so-called natural products.
46:11
SPEAKER_02: You know, we've all heard, for example, that uh perhaps rice can have arsenic or certain other things can, foods and things like that can actually have uh arsenic.
46:19
SPEAKER_02: Um, there are a lot of things that are so-called natural that can pick up different toxins.
46:23
SPEAKER_02: And when uh when the UK a number of years ago joined the European Union, which now they're not a part of, but when they joined the European Union, they took on a lot of rules and regulations.
46:35
SPEAKER_02: So you used to be able to fairly freely um import products into the UK unless it was, you know, going against something in their health ministry.
46:43
SPEAKER_02: And when they join the European Union, uh, the European Union requires that to import a product has to be toxicity tested.
46:51
SPEAKER_02: And now it's not something where I can just go to a toxic toxicologist and say, here, test my product.
46:56
SPEAKER_02: It has to be done in the UK by an independent toxicologist, it has to be overseen by an agency, and also your formulas have to be posted at a particular agreed-upon location so that the health ministry can look at them anytime they need to.
47:11
SPEAKER_02: Now, as a result of that, all of a sudden, guess what?
47:15
SPEAKER_02: A lot of comp companies could not get their products into the UK.
47:20
SPEAKER_02: And it didn't mean that, and even if they were natural, so-called natural products, because if you had one gazillion, one millionth gazillion of something that they considered to be toxic or was not appropriate by their definition for the skin, your product could not be uh imported into or exported into the um into the UK.
47:42
SPEAKER_02: Now, I'll give you an example, all of our products they have been completely toxic.
47:48
SPEAKER_02: Our products are in the UK.
47:52
SPEAKER_02: So just because a product says that it's so-called natural or that it's something and I skincare products, non-prescription skin products are not overseen by the FDA.
48:06
SPEAKER_02: Anybody can go to the FDA website, to the section that is for manufacturers, and basically it states that you can use any ingredient in the world in a skincare product as long as you do not make drug claims.
48:20
SPEAKER_02: So for example, if I held up a glass of water and I said, this glass of water is going to it's going to make your, it's going to your lines and wrinkles are going to disappear.
48:34
SPEAKER_02: The the the FDA doesn't look at it and say, Oh, that's so silly, nobody's gonna believe that.
48:40
SPEAKER_02: What they do is they tell me that I have to take out a new drug application to prove that the water as a drug is going to make your wrinkles go away.
48:48
SPEAKER_02: Now, if I said this glass of water will make the appearance of your wrinkles look a lot better, they don't care at all.
48:56
SPEAKER_01: Right.
48:57
SPEAKER_02: And who, if they really knew that it was just water, who's gonna buy that?
49:02
SPEAKER_01: Right.
49:02
SPEAKER_02: So you can use any ingredient.
49:04
SPEAKER_02: Any an ingredient can be either a drug or a cosmetic, depending on the claims.
49:10
SPEAKER_02: Glycolic acid can be a drug if it's sold for icleosis, which is a dry skin disease, it can be a cosmetic for the appearance of whatever.
49:21
SPEAKER_02: Um we use retinol as a cosmetic, which turns into with an enzyme in your skin, it turns into the same active ingredient that's in the prescription, but you don't make the same claims.
49:36
SPEAKER_02: So this is a very complex situation, and really people look at cosmetics and the things that they put on their skin as they just are harmless substances, and either they want to magically address an issue because there's a lot of magic associated with it, um, or we don't really pay enough attention as to what we're spending our money on and whether or not it's really going to have an actual effect.
50:07
SPEAKER_01: Well, this is why, you know, Jen, this is why I was so excited to have the opportunity to do this masterclass with you because I feel like the education aspect at this point in the way the skincare industry is going, that's what's missing.
50:22
SPEAKER_01: People are not educated about this stuff.
50:24
SPEAKER_01: They are not consumers learn the very trendy, the basic stuff.
50:29
SPEAKER_01: They think, you know, well, okay, here we go.
50:32
SPEAKER_01: Here's a trusted influencer or whatever, but the knowledge component is not there.
50:37
SPEAKER_01: And so when you approach things that are over the counter and when you approach things that are, you know, like you said, in the cosmetic realm, it's very easy to fall into that, you know, that hole of, well, you know, my favorite person on TikTok loves this.
50:50
SPEAKER_01: So this must work.
50:51
SPEAKER_01: And this individualization of skin health concerns, it's kind of going out the window because of all of that, if you ask me.
50:59
SPEAKER_01: You know, so it's it's very, very interesting.
51:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, when you when you're breaking down the science here, because, you know, this really gives people a framework.
51:07
SPEAKER_01: And I hope everyone listening, you know, you have to really think about, you know, what do what's wrong with my skin and what is the protocol behind what I need to do?
51:16
SPEAKER_01: Because once we get to that point, it's gonna be a lot easier to kind of um, you know, sort through the fluff and come to the real stuff that's gonna help us.
51:25
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I I just I just hope that everyone listening, you know, you're learning from, you know, everything Jan is sharing with us because this is just gold.
51:32
SPEAKER_01: You know, this information is gold.
51:34
SPEAKER_01: It's pure gold.
51:35
SPEAKER_01: And and I I I can't stress enough how important it is for you, everyone, to be educated, no matter if you're a doctor, no matter if you're a consumer, you have to learn this stuff, you know, and you have to learn how the FDA works and how things are regulated and how over-the-counters uh, you know, products come to be.
51:51
SPEAKER_01: So I I really appreciate you giving us these stats, Jen.
51:55
SPEAKER_01: This is wonderful.
51:56
SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you.
51:58
SPEAKER_02: I, you know, it's a lot of fun and I really enjoy it.
52:01
SPEAKER_02: And um, it's you know, it's my passion and I really appreciate having this opportunity to chat.
52:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I love it.
52:09
SPEAKER_01: And and you're truly a master of your craft, I must say.
52:13
SPEAKER_01: So I'm really looking forward to the next episode.
52:16
SPEAKER_01: Everyone tuning in.
52:16
SPEAKER_01: I hope you've been loving the two episodes so far.
52:19
SPEAKER_01: Stay tuned because we have but three more coming.
52:22
SPEAKER_01: I'm super excited.
52:23
SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, you know, if you guys have any questions for Jan and her team, definitely leave them in the comment section.
52:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm definitely gonna pass them along and we'll try to get some answers for you guys.
52:33
SPEAKER_01: But I hope you've learned a lot here.
52:35
SPEAKER_01: And I really um urge everyone, you know, if you again, if you have rosacea or know somebody, go back into this episode and re-listen to it because there's a lot of information that Jan has shared here that I think um it's it's worthy of taking notes on and really kind of keeping with you the next time you're going to the drugstore or you're going to the dermatologist, because you know, we forget these things, you know, in the transition.
52:57
SPEAKER_01: And it's good to have them, you know, in your hand.
52:59
SPEAKER_01: So please, I urge you take some notes, figure out, you know, what you need, and yeah, we'll be back next time with the next episode.
53:07
SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm looking forward to that.
53:10
SPEAKER_02: And everyone who is listening, thank you so much because I wouldn't be here without you.
53:15
SPEAKER_02: And it's been a real pleasure.
53:17
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
53:18
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
53:19
SPEAKER_02: Bye.
53:21
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54:28
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