Latest / Brands, Beats & Bytes / Album 5 Track 21 - What's Poppin? Summer Movies

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Album 5 Track 21 - What's Poppin? Summer Movies · Brands, Beats & Bytes

• DC: What's happening at Brand Nerds? Brands, Beats and Bytes podcasts right back at you. And today is a What's Popping Edition and it's movie night. It is movie Night on Brands, Beats, and Bytes. What's popping Podcast? LT, and J? Can you talk to the people, the peoples, about what's happening on movie night on Brands, Beats, and Bytes. Man DC JS: I, I think we got a fun topic today. Uh, LT. Tell us what's happening. LT: Well, you know, it's so cool you said that, D, about movie night, because think about it, the biggest movie time for going out to the movies is the summertime. Mm-hmm. So here, we're in the, in the beginning of summer. So what better time to hit this than now, right? Mm-hmm. So, and yes, we thought our fun topic today would even dial further in is the recent success of brand-based films, Air and Flaming Hot. So Brand Nerds, if you haven't seen either movie, we would certainly consider you checking out both of these films. For those who don't know, gonna give you a quick summation. Air is directed by Ben Affleck and he plays Nike founder Phil Knight. In the movie. It also stars Affleck's buddy Matt Damon as the key basketball executive, Sonny Vaccaro, who also seems to be the main consultant for the movie, cuz it seems like it's really Sunny's story. That's the version that we're looking at. So it takes place in 1984 when Michael Jordan, yes, that famous Michael Jordan was just a hot prospect coming out of the great University of North Carolina and a gold medal win in the 1984 Olympics. And the thought was by some, not all, that maybe he would turn into something. While the movie does a great job of taking it back to 1984 from the music, clothes, office decor and everything, it also takes you into the minds of the people who are really charged with building the brand, specifically Phil Knight, Sonny Vaccaro, and Rob Strasser, who at the time was Head of Marketing. Air was released in theaters in April. And has almost 90 million worldwide in box office. That's pretty strong. And honestly, from what I was reading and doing the research, I. It was actually done under Amazon Prime for, uh, under, under their, uh, uh, foray into going, going forth with movies. And so anything that they did at the box office was seen as gravy because it was soon released, uh, after it went, uh, to theaters on, on Amazon Prime. And for Brand Nerds, for those of you who don't know, uh, Amazon, Netflix, and all the other streamers, they keep the consumption data top secret to the point where the producers do not even know or see this data. So that's a good segue to Flaming Hot. Flaming Hot is the story of Richard Montanez, who, a man who grew up one of 10 siblings that did not finish high school. He ends up getting a job as a janitor at a FritoLay plant in Rancho Cucamonga, California, where um, that's a, a FritoLay plant and he claims he was the impetus for Flaming Hot Cheetos. And he figures out a way to work up from janitor to all the way to end up being VP of Multicultural Marketing at PepsiCo. The film debuted at SXSW this year where it won the audience award, and it was voted, which was voted upon by festival attendees. And seems like Brand Nerds, it was not released in theaters, but it seems like it is the first movie to debut on both Hulu and Disney, plus being in the Disney World, uh, sphere of influence. So without sounding too much like a film critic here, while it does have its holes, including what appears to be the main character, Richard not really developing Flaming Hot Cheetos, even though it is what is conveyed in the movie. It is really a heartwarming rags to riches story, the marketing part, not so great. So anyway, so that's my quick summation. What are your thoughts, gents? What do you think about, uh, about what's happening here? DC: Jay? JS: Well, yeah, let, let, let me, let me kind dive in the Flaming Hot Cheetos for a minute. Um, and, and I, I wanna highlight a few branding principles on, on why the product became a success, and I'm gonna focus on three areas. One, identifying a need in the market, two, understanding the culture, and then three, executing. In other words, you gotta tell folk about it, right? So let, let, let's start with number one. Identify a need in the market. And, and this is a spoil alert. So if you haven't seen it and don't wanna know too much about it, turn this off, come back, uh, after you watch it. Um, but what, essentially what he did was he said, look, he's in the Hispanic community, and there was no one talking out, no one talking to the, that community about snacks. Mm-hmm. No one. Mm-hmm. In, in a way that resonated with them. And, and what we found out is in this, and by the way, LT: Jay, I wanna make sure people know this was in the early nineties, just to point out JS: Oh, yeah. Thank you. That's good. DC: Early nineties. Good JS: point. That's a good point. Yeah. So, so it, it, you know, what you see now was not going on in terms of how they're reaching out to the, that community. So what he, what he communicated was in our community, a combination of extreme heat and great taste. That was the insight. Is what they're looking for in his culture. Mm-hmm. And he, and you know, and then in the movie he, you know, he, you know, he, it's funny. He uses his son as the, as the litmus test, and they finally end up with a flavor, albeit it burnt his mouth, it tasted good. So he said, that's it. LT: That was really cute. Yeah. JS: And so, uh, if, if you don't understand that, you would think, oh, if it burns my mouth, nobody's going to eat it. But guess what? That's, that's how they, they like, they enjoyed in that community. And, and I wanna take a step back. This re this reminds me of my days at Kraft um, and specifically on Kool-Aid. Okay? When I was at Kraft um, I, I wasn't on Kool-Aid, but they hired a guy, multicultural marketing. His name was Boris Oglesby. Now Boris is African-American, even though his name don't sound like it. Shout out Boris. Um, and he identified how African-Americans use Kool-Aid. And what they do is they, they mix flavors. So we don't just say grape, make a pitcher and beyond. It's like mix grape with this, with that, with this. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's, he knew this because he not under not only understood the culture, he lived the culture. Right, right. And so they started marketing, um, mixing flavors, which was based on a brand lover insight. And then that became mainstream. And you can see how the volume, you can, you can just see the volume going up instead of one pitcher with one packet. I'm using three packets to make one pitcher. Okay. So, so that, that was the success now for Flaming Hot. Um, LT: Jay, wait. Before you move on, I love that you provided that Yeah. Uh, that story. Mm-hmm. Because that's what we. You know that that's the insight for the Brand Nerds, right? Um, uh, that, that, while you didn't do that directly, you watched that go on and Brand Nerds, this is an important insight that, that Jeff just, uh, provided because these are the kind of differences one can make if you really listening and paying attention and then being bold enough to, to actually go make this happen. So, uh, thanks. I just wanted to interject. I'm glad you really. Provided that story. DC: Hey Jeff, I, I want to add to this, were you gonna say anything Yeah. Related to Larry? JS: No, keep going. No. DC: So, LT, you talked about being bold, so listening and being bold, these are two wonderful attributes that one must have in order to even begin down the path of recognizing there are like Black folks use multiple flavors of, uh, Kool-Aid in one serving. This bold piece is, I think, crucial because sometimes we will have, uh, folks inside of our, in these organizations, Brand Nerds, who are diverse, you are, they, you're diverse, you have lived something, you will have an insight, but you may lack the courage and boldness to actually say it. And this is how companies either A, lose out on massive opportunities, or B, do boneheaded stuff. LT: Yep. DC: So we, we encourage you Brand Nerds. If you are living something with a brand and you happen to either work directly for said brand and or you are a support through an agency or contract for said brand, say something about it. JS: Yes. DC: Say something about it. Either to exploit the opportunity or if you see the company is about to walk into something that is idiotic, tell them it's, you are about to do something dumb. So that, I just wanted to add that. LT: So true, bold. JS: That is, that is, yeah. That, that is such, that is such a great insight and will take you far DC: Yes. JS: Far in your marketing community. Mm-hmm. Will take you far. Thank thanks for adding that deed. So, I, I, and is funny, it's like you guys are, um, read my, my thought process cuz I want, I wanna now dive into this more of this, um, culture piece. It's how do I make sure if I'm, if I'm a brand manager, how do I make sure that my product, if I'm going to go the multicultural right, how do I make sure I've got the right things in place to make the right decisions? And so, and remember, you must not only understand it, just reading the decks and all that, you've got to live it. So how do you do that? Well, one, ideally there's someone on your team that's lived the culture. That's the best way. LT: Yep. JS: If you're gonna market to a community, have someone that from that community on your team. Now, if you don't have access to that, hire a consultant or an agency that understands the culture. These things are key because you look at mistakes out there that were made and you clearly understand, no one from the culture was either with the agency or within the company. Let's use Ikea for example. For in, for those of you who don't remember, for Juneteenth, to celebrate it, they decided to serve in their cafe fried chicken and watermelon. That was offensive. LT: Was that last year, Jeff? It wa wasn't this year. JS: I think it was 2000 I, it wasn't this year. DC: I think it was two years ago. JS: Two years ago, yeah. Yeah. And if you'd have had someone from the culture and understood the culture, you'd have never made that mistake. Right? So that's key. And then third, you've got believe DC: Before you get to the three. Can I go back to two? JS: Yeah. DC: All right. So yes, they need to have someone from the culture there, but then to Larry's point. They need to listen to that person. JS: Yeah. Okay. Right. DC: They need to listen to that person. Someone may have said either verbally or non-verbally, when the idea came forward, fried chicken and watermelon, even if it came from a Black person, even. Even if that idea came from another black person. Another black person might have been like, uh, I don't, um, ah, yeah, you, you, you gotta listen. And I, I say that and then Jeff, you'll get to your, your number three point no. Mm-hmm. Is that oftentimes in these organizations, both internally and externally, the person of color or who, who has lived a culture that is a different culture, isn't high enough to have the position on the hierarchy to say something and have folks listen to them, and I'll give you a quick example. This is something I had to learn. Mm-hmm. Uh, when I was at the Coca-Cola company, fortunately I rose through the ranks. I started, as you all know, uh, Larry and Jeff and certain, and the brand nerds may also know I started as a, uh, assistant brand manager. So that's the very lowest on the rung in the brand management hierarchy. I then go on to become a vice president and someone pulled me to the side and, and taught me something. They said, uh, uh, I'm noticing that you're giving your point of view on things. And, and I was like, yeah, I, I am. That's what I'm supposed to do. And what he said, I wish I could remember who told me this. He said, now that you're a vice president, what you think or thought where your opinions are now mandates. So be careful what you say. LT: Mm. JS: Wow. DC: That, yeah. Oh, that's careful, careful. I'm no longer an assistant, uh, brand manager, right? Where I'm just mentioning something and it's just, just an opinion. I'm now, uh, saying something that I used to think of as an opinion that has now become a mandate. Most of, most of folks who are different, they are not at the top. They are not the vp, they're not the senior director. They're not the EVP, SVP, C-suite executive. So, Listen and really listen non-verbally. So I want, so I wanted to add that Larry. Oh man, you were about to say something, brother. JS: That's so good. LT: What? This is great. What I was gonna say to Dee is what he's really saying to you too is when you're an assistant brand manager, Yes, you're venturing an opinion, but you're selling because you, you know, you see things that others don't see. And quite honestly, that should be the diversity of every, uh, brand management, uh, organization out there. That they have people not, you know, diverse means a lot, means a lot of different people from different places who think differently. That's right. And so, you're selling your opinion because you see things and you're usually, especially at that age, sort of fervent about it. I know. I was, I know you two were too actually. And, uh, and so when you get to the VP level, there's no longer reason to sell anymore. JS: Yeah, that's right. DC: Not, not down. You still have to sell up. Agreed. You, you have to people, poor people, you have to sell. Yes. LT: Agreed. JS: That's right. LT: Yeah. Anyway, we interrupted Jeff. Okay. But this is great, Jeff. Keep going. JS: Yeah. And, and my last point about the culture is, is um, I think ethnography, ethnographies are so important. Yeah. And I saw Boris use that to drive home. LT: Jeff, tell, tell people what, just give a little quick summation of what that ethnography is. JS: An ethnography is is where you identify a family that lets you come in and observe them on how they, and in this case, Kraft foods, how they cook food, how they prepare things, right? And so they went into the home, and this is a family that was a heavy Kool-Aid user. They had Kool-Aid for dinner, et cetera, and they, uh, they watched, they showed up making the Kool-Aid, and on the packet it says, maybe, you know, two tablespoons of sugar. These folks using two cups, right? If it don't taste like syrup, they don't want it. I mean, you could use it to either drink it or soap your biscuit in it. I mean, it was, it's very sweet. But that's how they liked it in the culture, right? And what was interesting is we're sitting in this room, it's a diverse room of, you know, African American mainstream folk, et cetera. When they showed them pouring that sugar in there, you heard the audience go, some of the folks go, oh, I can't believe that. Right. But But they now understood. Yeah. That. That's how they use it in the culture. Yeah. So ethnographies use them. I, I, I think they're vital in terms of really understanding how to connect with, uh, your, your audience. And then the last thing he did is he made sure he got into the hands, not on, not mainstream, but the brand lover. And there's a scene, remember this, there's a scene in there where the brand lover has five bags, bags of flaming hot Cheetos. LT: Yep. JS: And someone from the mainstream looks, oh wow. What is that? Maybe I need to try that. And he is like, well, we didn't have anymore. They got 'em all right. Right. But it created this, this, uh, you know, this, uh, interest into the brand. So tho those are my three things. Identify a need in the market, understand the culture, and then getting into the brand lover's hand, and in other words, execute it. LT: Those are three great. JS: That's what I got from it. Yeah. Great. LT: That was, that's great Jeff. I'm glad you put that out there. And I want to put this out there. Um, What you were saying with the, the ethnography is so key. I think the more metapoint is, you gotta do the research too, because it's not just what you think. So you, you have a third party per, you know, uh, purveyor in there who can really provide, uh, something that's obviously not biased at all. And by the way, that's where we got a shout out. Ivan and his crew, the me production folks. Oh yeah, Ivan, they do great job. Um, we do a lot of work with Brand Nerds and, and they are so, down into the, in, into understanding the culture, especially in urban areas, that, um, folks like, uh, like Me Productions can, the, the information and insights they can provide is just incredibly invaluable anyway. DC: Really is, and it's behavior based. LT: That's right. JS: Yes. Yeah. DC: Love what? Love, uh, what you're doing, brother. I'm picking up what you laying down. All right. All right. First thing I wanna do is I wanna shout out the, uh, the producers and directors of each of these movies. So, for Air, uh, as you said, that's, uh, Ben Aflac and Matt Damon. I believe this is their first movie under their new shield called It is Artist Equity. Artist Equity. So shout out Ben Affleck, who, uh, produced, as well as directed the movie. And then for Flaming Hot, I've not seen this yet, but there is a dynamic brother who's been in Hollywood quite some time. His name is Devon Franklin. Devon Franklin. He produced this movie and Eva Longoria directed the movie Flaming Hot. LT: So when Desparate Housewives fame, Eva Longoria. DC: Oh, that's right, that's right. How, thank you. Thank you. So I wanna shout out these, uh, these two production companies as well as these, uh, Folks who are at the helm of these movies that are brand based. So I want, I wanna start with that. The second, uh, thing I wanna talk about here are popular words and terms in the marketing area over the last 15 years or so. So, branded content. Remember that this was all the rave everyone had to do branded content. Another one was performance marketing. So not, not digital marketing, performance marketing. You've got to get in there and make certain that you've got the quantitative things down and you understand the performance and the metrics and KPIs across everything that you are doing and spending, particularly in the digital world. So performance marketing. Another one is purpose driven marketing. Purpose driven marketing. So does your marketing have purpose? Does the brand have purpose? And then finally, there's a word and it's still out there now, called storytelling. How good is your storytelling? Yeah. How good is your storytelling? We market as well. We'll come up with some terms now. We'll come up with some words. So let's go to storytelling. What we do in marketing is we will come up with these terms and these phrases, but we may not necessarily explain why. Why is something like storytelling important? And I'm going to share with you Brand Nerds, something you've heard us say before about why storytelling is important, what makes something interesting and compelling, uh, from a story storytelling perspective. And I'm gonna go to one of our guests, uh, brand, uh, Brand Nerds, and Jeff and LT. Oren Katzeff. Okay. Oren Katzeff. He is now CEO of Literally Media, and he told us. And it, it rocked my world. He said The the kind of content that is captivating, that just grabs your attention and have folks thinking, I need to get more. And this is what Air and Flaming Hot both, they both did. He says The stuff you don't know about the stuff, you know. The stuff you don't know about the stuff, you know, and in the case of Air, we did not know about Sonny Vaccaro. Not broadly, not just a small group of folks. And in the, uh, in the case of Flaming Hot, we did not know about Richard Montañez. We did not know about this e either of these brothers and these movies are, are able to do what they do in terms of capturing the at attention and imagination of the public, the viewing public, because they have that element. They ha they both have that element. So Brand Nerds, when you are developing your marketing and you hear someone say, well, what, what is, what's the story that we're telling? Remember Oren's phrase, the stuff you don't know about the stuff, you know. I'm now going to give an example in the branding world of exactly this, of exactly this. June of 2021 was the birth of the Pearl Milling Company. The Pearl Milling Company. Right. They, Jeff, you know where I'm going? They changed, yeah. I Where you changed the name? Yeah. And LT two, they changed the name because before June of 2021, the name of the brand was Aunt Jemima. Aunt Jemima. So during all of what was happening with social justice in this country and around the world, the owners of, uh, of, of Aunt Jemima, which is the Pep PepsiCo. Mm-hmm. Uh, through, through a Quaker Oats, uh, acquisition, uh, many decades ago, several decades ago, they said, we're gonna no longer call this Aunt Jemima. We think that's culturally insensitive. We're gonna call it the Pearl Milling Company. Alright, now, You all have heard of Aunt Jemima, many of you all, but what you may not know is that Aunt Jemima was a real woman. She was an enslaved woman named Nancy Green, and I want to give Nancy Green her flowers. Her flowers, yeah. Okay. The reason why I, I want to give Nancy Green her flowers is because in 1983, she was the first living person to be a trademark. The first in advertising history was Nancy Green. LT: Wow. DC: That's Aunt Jemima. And it was 1893, as I mentioned. It was debuted at the World's Exposition, um, uh, the World's Colombian Exposition in Chicago. And Nancy Green was 59 years old, so just think about this. She was a 59 year old woman, Nancy Green. Now, unfortunately, in 1894, 1 year later, someone created a caricature of Ms. Green, a caricature of Ms. Green, and distorted her looks, her lips, her face, her eyes. This is Mo most, most unfortunately. And Dr. Maurice Hobson, who is a PhD at, at Georgia State University of uh, African, uh, uh, studies as well as a historian, he is well-versed in how immigrants here in America looking to climb the totem pole would create caricatures of Black people in order to make certain that the Black folks were below them. You'll have to look up Dr. Maurice Hobson and, and, uh, and find that story. LT: D I just wanna interject one quick thing. That's the caste system that Yes. I talked about on the show in book about the Martin that, that, um, Isabel Wilkerson's written about, which goes to the caste system. Go, go ahead. DC: What a great point. What a great point, Larry. So I will, I will end it with a a, a re reprisal of Oren. Brand Nerds in marketing, the best marketing, the best movies, the best podcast, the best books. The stuff you don't know about the stuff, you know. LT: Awesome. JS: Awesome. LT: Yes. And, and, and we haven't talked much about Air and I, I want to build off of what you just said, D, is that they did a fabulous job of that. Everybody. Michael Jordan's one of the most famous people in the world, and his Q rating is, dare I say, one of the best in the world with all age groups, right? Yep. Uh, and so there's a legend behind him. And if you think about, if you're Nike, you know, we've heard stories, ah, they didn't quite, you know, this was Sonny Vaccaro version. And Sonny Vaccaro ran into issues later with Phil Knight, who was the founder. Um, so this was Sonny Vaccaro's version. Um, But it, and, and I think Aflac did it. I heard him talk on a podcast. They never showed Michael Jordan's face, and it won't ruin the movie if you watch it, because it wasn't about Michael. It was in the sense of of we all know who Michael is. It was about the buildup. And the legend building Michael. And for Nike, having seen Michael as somebody who can, they, they can really peg their brand too. So it, it was, and his mother played a, an more instrumental role at that point in time in 1984 than he did because Michael actually wanted to sign with Adidas. And that is, that that is true, that that is all a true story. So, uh, Air is a great film. The one thing I need to say though is Rob Strasser, who was the head of marketing, and he ran into Rob Strasser, the head of marketing at Nike. He ran into issues with Film Knight, ended up running Adidas America, and he passed away by heart attack in the early nineties. From the things I've read and the legends. I, I've done a lot of work internally with Nike, so knew a lot of people. He didn't get his due in this, in this film. Um mm-hmm. And so I just wanna shout out that again, because again, we're sticking up for our marketing brothern here. Um, Rob had as much or more to do with, uh, with Michael signing with Nike then was really portrayed in the film, but it was still a great, a great film. I would, if you're, if you're a marketing person, please go see it. DC: Yeah. I. I gotta, I'd be remiss if I didn't add, uh, at one point here because Larry, you talked about how, uh, so Vaccaro ran into an issue with, uh, Phil Knight and he left, which, uh, Adida, he also mentioned, uh, the head of marketing. Richard, can you give his name? Rob Stren. Uh, Rob Strausser. Okay. Strauser. Uh, so shout out to, uh, to Rob as well in rest in power. Um, so Brand Nerds, just think about this now. Phil Knight owned and owns Nike, Sonny Vaccaro and Rob and rest in peace, Rob were employees of Nike, so no matter what happened with their differences, Phil Knight was going to win that. LT: That's right. DC: The other thing is that Michael Jordan is a billionaire right now. He is, I think somewhere in the $3 million range. And that was before the sale of the Charlotte, um, n b A team that he 3 billion billion, 3 billion, yeah. Yeah. So, so, uh, he's gonna be richer. So my guess is he spent tw $275 billion. It prob, I mean, million dollars to buy. Um, the Hornets and he's probably gonna clear, I'm guessing 2 billion or so, maybe two and a half. So he will nearly double his wealth and he'll be somewhere around the five and a half, $6 billion mark, which is great. But Phil Knight, Phil Knight is worth 10 x of what Michael will be, and he it is because he owns it. So, Brand Nerds, I will say this to you. As you consider your matriculations throughout these companies, near and far much better to be the owner than to be the employee of the of the brand. Well, well said. And by the way, LT: I just looked up. Yes, I just looked up. So, uh, mjs net valuation, again, according to Forbes, is 2 billion. And to your point, he's gonna sell the Hornets valuation at 3 billion. So he's gonna, he's not gonna sell the whole thing, but he'll be worth about 4 billion. Phil Knight's worth 44 billion. So your 10 x was, 10 x is right. Right. DC: You go there, go Brand Nerds. There you go. JS: And, and I think we, we gotta check this, but I think I saw somewhere he, he makes. Jordan makes 400 million a year on, on, uh, his shoes from Nike, the royalties, that whole thing. Royalties, yeah. Four, 400, 400 million. And I, and I know Nike makes billion, so that, that, that's his small piece, even though his name is on the brand. So, yes. DC: And by the way, Jeff, I don't know that Phil Knight is worth 44 billion, but for Mr. Michael Jordan. JS: Amen. DC: Yeah, I'm not, I'm not sure he's worth that much. LT: Not even close, Steve. DC: Yeah. JS: No. LT: Yeah. No. And, and also the one thing I, and, and then I, I know we're coming up on time here, one thing that, uh, that should be said is that, um, uh, at the time, and it's hard for branders to imagine this, but in 1984, Nike was struggling. They were a running shoe company. That's when, uh, Reebok was really coming up with, with, uh, with shoes. And they, and, and Nike and, and of course Adidas and Converse were still there, so they were really struggling. So what could argue that MJ coming just was the huge paradigm shift to, to change the entire, you know, trajectory of, of the brand and company. So, yes. DC: Yeah, I, I know I've said I, I'm gonna say this and as if it's the last thing I'm gonna say, but I think this really is the last thing I'm gonna say. Uh, uh, LT and J Nike was a running company. LT: Yep. DC: They were not a basketball company. And if you, uh, check out the movie, you will notice that the basketball division was in peril and at risk of actually shutting down. Now who knows if that would've actually happened or not. But they were a running company. They were not a basketball company. Mm-hmm. Uh, and so I am not in any way, um, mad at Phil Knight. Phil Knight did what he was supposed to do. I'm gonna go to a quote of Tyler Perry of of fame, also a billionaire of, uh, of fame in the content space. And he has a, he has a quote. He who has the gold, makes the rules. LT: Yep. It's DC: Get you some gold brand nerds. Yes. Better get you some gold out there. That's it. LT: That's it. That's it. And before we sign off, Jay, I just looked this up. MJ makes 5% royalties off the sales of, of all Jordan brand. So whatever that number is, it's, it's a hefty number. JS: Yeah. Wow. Yes. DC: Wow. JS: 5%. Okay. All right, Brand Nerds. Thanks for listening to Brands, Beats and Bytes recorded virtually on Zoom and a production of KZSU Stanford, 90.1 FM Radio and worldwide at kzsu.org. The executive producers are Jeff Shirley, Darryl "DC" Cobbin Larry Taman, Hailey Cobbin, Jade Tate, and Tom Dioro DC: The pod father. LT: That is correct. And if you are listening to us via podcast, it would be great if you can please rate and review us. Additionally, if you do like the show, please subscribe and share with your friends and colleagues. We hope you enjoyed this podcast and we look forward to next time where we will have more insightful and enlightening talk about marketing.