Latest / The Fourcast / Hungary Election: The blueprint for beating the far right?

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Hungary Election: The blueprint for beating the far right? · The Fourcast

0:00
People were partying, cars were honking, strangers greeted each
0:05
other, gave out high fives. The first thing you will see
0:08
among far right allies of Orban in Europe is a distancing from
0:14
Trump and Vance and the MAGA movement that clearly isn't
0:17
going to work for them. And Europe needs to have more
0:20
confidence in its capacity and its ability to stand up to the
0:23
US administration and do things that it believes are
0:25
fundamentally in the European interest.
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And I really hope that, yeah, this time the new, new
0:31
government build back democracy rather than, you know,
0:36
entrenching their own powers. Welcome to the forecast.
0:44
I'm Matt Frey in Budapest today. I'm here because of the historic
0:49
elections that delivered a crushing result not just for
0:53
Viktor Orban last night, but also for nationalist populism in
0:57
Europe and around the world, you might say, take note, George
1:00
Maloney, Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump.
1:02
So Viktor Orban was defeated and the opposition, led by Peter
1:07
Maggio won a 2/3 majority in parliament.
1:11
This is crucial because it actually allows Maja to govern.
1:15
Remember, it was the 2/3 majority that Orban got in 2010
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that allowed him to change so many institutions, the rule of
1:22
law, the judiciary, etcetera, everything that went into his
1:25
concept of illiberal democracy. Well, it turns out that even in
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a liberal democracy has elections and they can be lost
1:32
by the incumbent. And I have to say Orban did bow
1:35
out early and gracefully last night.
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So how important was this? Why did it happen?
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What are the lessons for Europe and the rest of the world?
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I'm joined by Midge Rachman, who is a political analyst, and by
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Slidzad Tizzad, who's a Hungarian journalist and this
1:51
information expert. Welcome, gentlemen, to you both.
1:54
Cesar, let me start with you. I got very little sleep last
1:57
night. The vibe on the streets of
1:59
Budapest was kind of World Cup victory meets regime change.
2:02
How was it for you? Yeah, it was a festive.
2:06
It reminded me of 2016 when the Hungarian football team did
2:11
quite well in the European Championships.
2:13
So similar scenes played out on the streets of Budapest.
2:18
I actually logged the home from the from the office and like
2:22
people were parking, cars were honking, strangers greeted each
2:27
other, gave out high fives. So, so really it was a jubilant
2:32
mood very much different from the previous elections where,
2:36
you know, even though Budapest always voted kind of majority
2:41
for the for the opposition, but like the national results were
2:46
so, so bad for the previous opposition parties that it was
2:51
very despondent vibes in Budapest.
2:55
But this time it was totally different and kind of now the
2:59
rest of the country, at least to some extent, went with the
3:03
capital city. And why do you think the
3:06
opposition led by Peter Magia, who of course was a fetus
3:10
insider, I mean, he was a regime guy until he wasn't.
3:14
Why do you think they managed to do it this time?
3:16
First of all, now they were the only credible alternative, the
3:22
only real opposition party with with chances of success, I would
3:28
say. And like precisely the fact that
3:32
he is a former fetus insider and and has nothing to do with the
3:38
all the opposition, so to say, which very much discredited
3:42
itself, I think had him tremendously.
3:46
But of course it's it's not one factor that can explain this.
3:51
So the economic situation changed also his his personal
3:57
style. And I would say a very good
4:00
campaign had and yeah, like fidasis campaign and fidasis
4:05
communication didn't work as well as before.
4:10
And and also the, the disinformation campaigns, which
4:15
which they pretty much used this time as well had presumably less
4:22
effect than in 22, also because it pretty much centered around
4:27
the war in Ukraine. And now I think that the
4:29
salience of the issue in in people's mind were much less
4:35
than it was in 2022 or even in 2024 before the the European
4:40
parliamentary elections. I mean, Midge, one of the things
4:42
that really struck me was that Orban kept going on and on in
4:46
his election rallies, you know, in his messages on TV, in his
4:49
posters about the link between Zelensky and Peter Majia.
4:54
And, you know, he did the same thing four years ago.
4:57
And it worked then because the Ukraine war had just started.
5:00
People who were terrified of it. It didn't seem to work this
5:03
time. And it seemed like a really odd
5:04
choice for a campaign message. What do you think, Rich?
5:07
I think it showed us that Fidesz is totally out of ideas.
5:11
They flogged the Ukraine horse as much as they could, but as
5:15
you say, it didn't really give them any any meaningful return.
5:20
I think people saw through the lies.
5:22
I think Maya was very effective as a credible conservative
5:28
candidate, as as you said in the beginning of former FIT, as
5:30
insider at exposing the rock within the governance and the
5:35
administration, and was very effective at holding Orbanta
5:40
account for the sluggish economy, the poor growth
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outlook, the fact people's living standards have been
5:45
reversing compared to regional peers.
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And so in that context, where the population is concerned
5:51
about corruption, they're concerned about living
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standards. The Ukraine issue I think felt
5:56
incredibly abstract and obviously simply didn't work for
5:59
them. I mean, I wonder if you're
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Georgie Maloney, who has quite a pragmatic understanding of the
6:04
limits of her populist appeal, or if you're Marine Le Pen,
6:07
who's trying, or Jordan Badella, who are trying to get into power
6:10
in the French presidential election, or indeed the Afd in
6:12
Germany. What are the lessons that you
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can learn from Viktor Orban's demise?
6:18
I think most important, Matt, I think, will be lack of political
6:23
space for MAGA in particular, to interfere in European election
6:28
cycles going forward. You'll remember when the
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National Security Strategy from the US State Department was
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published last year, Member states in Europe, in Brussels,
6:36
officials were quivering in their boots at the fear and the
6:40
concern of explicit U.S. government, electoral
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interference in domestic politics in the member states.
6:47
And I think what we've seen in Hungary and we saw in Greenland
6:50
as well, these things just haven't worked.
6:53
And so I think the first thing you will see among far right
6:55
allies or Forban in Europe is a distancing from Trump and Vance
7:01
and the MAGA movement. And that clearly isn't going to
7:04
work for them domestically. And then I suspect what we will
7:08
begin to see on the Ukraine question as well is perhaps a
7:11
bit more constructive opposition, a recognition, as I
7:15
say, that flogging that Ukraine horse may not deliver a return
7:19
when voters are more concerned about issues around cost of
7:22
living in to some extent, migration.
7:24
Sliat I mean, the Afd and indeed Nigel Farage in the UK have
7:29
already been putting some distance between themselves and
7:32
Donald Trump ever since the beginning of his war of choice
7:35
in Iran. And they've kind of realised
7:38
that actually with rising petrol prices and a general sense of
7:41
chaos in the Middle East that, you know, there's a real problem
7:44
there. But at the same time as they
7:47
were realising that, we had JD Vance appearing in Budapest for
7:51
two days on the campaign trail last week, you know, when you
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should have been dealing with the Middle East, you might argue
7:58
campaigning on behalf of Orban. He appeared on the stage next to
8:01
him. Donald Trump even rang into the
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rally at one stage and on a crackly line you could hear
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Donald Trump say I support Victor 100%, etcetera, etcetera.
8:10
Was that the kiss of death for Orban?
8:12
I mean, I, I wouldn't say that was the decisive issue, but
8:17
definitely he didn't try to distance himself at all from
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Trump. Trump, quite the opposite.
8:25
And on top of that, like what many analysts say right now is,
8:31
is the style of his campaign. And his personal style also
8:36
changed to a kind of MAGA thing. So for example, he, he appeared
8:42
in in many interviews with like trash celebs, reality stars,
8:49
which didn't really fit well with his, you know, statement
8:55
image. He he tried to imitate Trump to
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some extent. This strategy is like credited
9:04
to Balaj Orban, his campaign manager, but looks like it
9:10
didn't work at all. And on the specific question of
9:14
of Iran, there was an interesting moment in this
9:18
campaign. You know, basically the whole
9:21
Fidus message was that opposition would drag us into
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the Ukraine war and, you know, Hungarian soldiers would be sent
9:29
to Ukraine. And then one journalist asked
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the minister, what if Trump asked the Hungarian government
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to to send the troops to Iran? And he replied we would to think
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about it then. So he didn't say clearly that
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it's out of the out of the question and it really
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contradicted the whole campaign message of fetus.
9:53
Mitch, I mean, is there a general lesson to be learnt here
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that those people in European politics who don't like the, you
10:01
know, the Christian nationalist, populist right have often in
10:05
recent years felt almost as if they were trapped, that this was
10:08
an inevitable momentum, that they would sweep the ball, that,
10:11
you know, liberal Europe was finished and was going to be
10:14
squashed by illiberal Europe? There is nothing inevitable
10:17
about this insurgency of the far right and I do think again
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talking in particular about the role of the US administration as
10:25
we think about very important elections in Europe next year.
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Poland, Italy, France, the Big 1 presidential election, Jordan
10:33
Bardella with 33% of the popular vote in absolute pole position
10:38
compared to the political centre.
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It's in that context I think centrist parties need to have
10:43
more confidence and Europe needs to have more confidence in its
10:46
capacity and its ability to stand up to the US
10:49
administration and do things that it believes are
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fundamentally in the European interest.
10:53
And I think what Peter Meyer has done, combating both populist
10:59
nationalist forces globally, JD Vans, Trump, Putin, Fizzo,
11:03
Marine Le Pen and her reasomblement national allies,
11:07
in the context of a heavily gerrymandered and electoral
11:11
system that favoured Fidesz to deliver a 2/3 majority, should
11:14
absolutely give confidence to centrist parties all over Europe
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that they have the wherewithal to confront these forces and do
11:21
so effectively. Peter Maggio, he is anti
11:24
immigration, you know, ideologically he is definitely
11:28
on the right and I wouldn't even say on the centre right.
11:31
He's on the right. He's certainly not on the left.
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I mean, if you want to win an election these days, do you have
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to be strong and tough on immigration, wherever your kind
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of economic policies may lie, Mitch?
11:42
You do not. But I just I think we need to
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contextualise Major properly. And by that I mean what I think
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we will see from him in Europe now is a position that is taken
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by many member states across the whole gambit of issues.
11:56
You're right, he's not a fan of Ukraine a session and he will
12:00
fight Hungary's corner, but that is not dissimilar to the
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position of Macron or Tusk or any other mainstream member
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states. So I think what you have in my
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yard is a centrist, right leaning but mainstream
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politician that will much more easily fit into that broader
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European consensus. Whereas you say correctly and I
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agree immigration and cost of living are very prominent
12:25
issues, but he's not on the political extreme and he
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certainly will not be a vector for Russian and Chinese
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influence within the Union, which was the explicit position
12:37
and goal and strategy of the urban government.
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That's not what we're going to see with him.
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And so I do think at the European level, this is a game
12:45
changer. It's a fundamental reorientation
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of politics in Hungary that will allow, I think, and enable
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Europe to be a much more effective geopolitical players,
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certainly when it comes to supporting Ukraine.
12:59
See that, I mean, it's, it's struck me as really weird that
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that Orban should be going on and on about Ukraine.
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As I've said before, he didn't mention Vladimir Putin by name,
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but it's obvious that this administration here, the
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outgoing one, was very friendly to Moscow and was seen by many,
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I think rightly as Moscow's spanner in the EU works.
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Orban famously changed his mind for a Ukraine, you know, a
13:21
package of €90 billion at the beginning of the year.
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He managed to block that. And I'm assuming that will now
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be unblocked. But why do you think someone who
13:31
seemed to have a sort of finger on the on the on the patriotic
13:34
pulse very effectively for years?
13:37
We're talking about Orban here. When was so friendly with Russia
13:40
when the the trauma of the 1956 uprising and how the Soviets
13:45
crushed it is so prevalent in people's minds that one of the
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most prevalent slogans last night was F of Russia and Russia
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Go home. I didn't get it.
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Yeah, I think it's the $1,000,000 question why he
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started this Russian friendly politics like back around 2014
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with the, you know, nuclear plant built by Russian companies
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that I think after a while he realised, or at least he
14:15
believed that this fits well into his overall politics and
14:21
overall ideology, anti EU, anti LGBTQ, you know, the demise of
14:27
of the West and it, it did the work in 2022 in the aftermath of
14:32
the full scale invasion. So I think in a in a way, they
14:38
became the victims of their own previous success because he
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believed they believed too much in the Russia Ukraine war, you
14:49
know, angle of campaign and continued this time, even though
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the the situation now is completely different and and
14:59
it's not on people's minds so much.
15:02
Also people could see that, OK, four years have passed, many
15:06
European countries supported Ukraine and nobody was dragged
15:10
into the war. So maybe it's not so believable
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anymore. I mean, when you look at this
15:15
extraordinary alliance of, you know, Donald Trump, Viktor
15:18
Orban, Benjamin Netanyahu, who by the way, he's visited Hungary
15:22
even when he hasn't been allowed to or couldn't visit other
15:24
European countries, and of course Vladimir Putin.
15:28
What combines them seems to be this infatuation, especially
15:32
with Putin, that he is anti woke, anti LGBTQ plus rights,
15:38
you know, anti political correctness.
15:41
Do you think we sometimes underestimate the power of this
15:45
political force, Mitch, in global politics that seems to
15:49
override, you know, national security, economic interest, you
15:53
know, the culture wars or this aspect of them is immensely
15:56
powerful, or certainly was until yesterday.
15:59
Yes, the map beyond beyond the culture wars.
16:02
Orban, as you know, was a was a model and a template for
16:07
illiberal democracy, constraining the judiciary,
16:12
controlling the media, establishing A kleptocratic
16:15
regime. As you know, Europe has not
16:17
dispersed over billions and billions of EUR mapped to the
16:22
Hungarians because of concerns about that money not being used
16:27
for the purposes for which it was designed.
16:29
And so I think beyond beyond the culture wars and LGBTQ and being
16:33
tough on immigration, there's an entire system here that Orban
16:36
created that I think, you know, he was the spiritual godfather.
16:40
And that I think was something that many leaders all over the
16:44
world were looking to emulate. And so the question now I think
16:47
is how sustainable is that model of governance going forward?
16:52
Can can centrist forces find their mojo and come back with a
16:57
bit more fervor and a bit more momentum in light of the result
17:00
that we saw overnight? That's absolutely, I think, the
17:03
question when it comes to the French presidential election,
17:05
but it's a question being asked in Brussels and all capitals
17:08
across Europe this morning. The, I mean, the other thing
17:10
about Orban that he was so kind of good at and and gallingly
17:15
good at was railing against the European Union.
17:18
And one of the other election slogans was the evil axis of
17:21
Brussels and Kiev. You know, there were pictures of
17:25
Orzela von der Leyen looking like, you know, like a drugs
17:28
pusher everywhere. I mean, she looked really,
17:30
really rather bad in these posters.
17:33
At the same time, he was very good at using EU funds to
17:35
feather his countries and his own nest while hollowing out the
17:39
institution. I mean, an extraordinary thing
17:41
to do really. Has that now run its course?
17:44
And I think so because I think map the data doesn't lie, right.
17:47
If you look at GDP, any key economic metric, GDP per capita,
17:52
economic growth outlook, Hungary's performance during the
17:56
pandemic, the inflation outlook on any key metric, it is clear
18:01
that Hungary is a massive, massive underperformer compared
18:05
to regional peers. And so I think, you know, in
18:09
particular the youth that was incredibly mobile.
18:12
But even what was interesting about the result yesterday was
18:14
in the constituency vote where there wasn't good constituency
18:18
level data, these Fides strongholds in the countryside
18:22
massively turned towards Tisa and Peter Meyer.
18:25
That is what delivered the 2/3 majority.
18:28
And even the posters didn't capture that trend because there
18:31
wasn't good data available. And so I think the the general
18:34
sentiment was across the country was people want to reimagine
18:38
their future. They realise Hungary is
18:40
underperforming. There is all of the sleaze that
18:43
Maya was very good at putting on social media and exposing the
18:47
corruption. And he had the credibility to do
18:49
it because as you say, he came from within the system.
18:52
And I think that was incredibly damaging for for Orban.
18:55
And we will see, Matt, now in Europe, in the institutions I've
18:59
been in Brussels a few weeks ago talking to officials in the
19:02
European Commission, A lot of money is going to flow to
19:05
Hungary very, very quickly. 6 1/2 billion in grants.
19:10
That's money the Hungarians will not need to repay.
19:13
That was in this pan, this facility that was created in the
19:18
aftermath of the pandemic to help countries recover from
19:21
COVID. None of that money has been
19:22
dispersed to Hungary. It's just sitting there.
19:24
That facility expires at the end of the year.
19:26
All of that money, I suspect, is going to flow into the real
19:29
economy. This is going to boost growth.
19:31
It's going to help living standards.
19:32
It's going to further consolidate Peter Meyer and
19:35
Teasers power, and I think that's all a very, very good
19:39
thing. Silad, what do you think will
19:41
happen now to Hungary's blocking of the €90 billion sent to
19:46
Ukraine? I'm assuming that that will go.
19:49
And also, what do you think that Peter Maggio will do with his
19:52
2/3 majority in parliament? What, what are the kind of
19:55
changes that we can expect him to undergo?
19:58
Yes. So I think his Ukraine policy to
20:01
be honest is, is quite vague. So actually his strategy in the
20:06
campaign was to say as little as possible on the issues in which
20:12
Fidel was seen as winning like on LGBTQS or Ukraine.
20:18
One thing we know is that the accession, EU accession of
20:22
Ukraine, he promised to put that on a referendum.
20:26
And like probably deliveries of weapon is kind of out the
20:31
question, but like block about blocking the loan.
20:35
I, I don't think he, he made a clear stance and, and what would
20:41
happen with the, with the, the whole system.
20:46
So at his victory speech, he immediately called for the
20:52
resignation of, of the president of the president of the Supreme
20:58
Court. And like some other leaders of
21:02
state institutions who were appointed by by supermajority, I
21:08
mean, what will happen is of course an open question.
21:13
But since Tisa will have a super majority in one way or another,
21:19
I think they will have an opportunity to to oust these
21:24
people. I I don't think there's any
21:27
question at all about Maya now supporting this 90 billion loan
21:31
for Ukraine. Ukraine desperately needs that
21:33
money, otherwise the administration will not have the
21:36
money to either pay the military or civil servants and pensioners
21:40
and do the things government needs to do.
21:42
Remember, Hungary is not a financial contributor to that 90
21:45
billion loan or ban secured an opt out.
21:48
Maya will retain the opt out. But what we do, what Europe does
21:51
need is Hungary's approval on one piece of legislation that is
21:56
unanimity in Maya, I think will do that.
21:58
There's no reason for him not to do it.
22:00
And he'll want to do it because Europe, as I said, is sitting on
22:04
billions of EUR worth of financing that he absolutely
22:08
needs to bolster his economy. And so I think that will move
22:10
really quickly. Celad, when the Law and Justice
22:14
Party was defeated in Poland by Donald Tusk and the
22:16
Progressives, you know, again, a massive sense of relief,
22:19
especially for, you know, young urbanites and and educated
22:23
Poles. But a massive fight back from
22:26
the remnants of law and justice in the judiciary, in the media,
22:29
in the institutions of the state where they had embedded
22:32
themselves quite effectively. Can we expect the same thing to
22:35
happen in Hungary? At least yesterday, Urban seemed
22:42
to be quite determined to, to act as a strong opposition
22:49
force. But on the other hand, I, I, I
22:51
think the, the defeat is, is so huge that I wouldn't be
22:56
surprised if, if some kind of movement would, would start
23:02
within Fidel. So I, I think we should look out
23:06
for it. And, and there are some some
23:09
politicians, especially a minister called Janos Lazar, who
23:14
is widely seen as one who could try to stage an rebellion
23:20
against urban. But yeah, I think that's one
23:24
open question. What will happen inside Fiders
23:26
and and how all these people appointed by fiders to to the
23:31
heads of different state institutions will behave in the
23:37
in the near future? So would they resign?
23:40
Would they try to try to fight and or would they try to
23:43
cooperate with the with the new government?
23:46
I think all of these scenarios are possible and these will be
23:50
at the end of the day, like not just the choice of Orban, but
23:54
also personal choices of his close confidence.
23:59
And considering the fact Cela that there were so many
24:01
accusations of corruption against Orban, is it possible
24:04
that he himself might be investigated or even face trial?
24:08
I think it is possible. Majar also promised to set up a
24:12
new investigative body for for corruption cases and and to
24:19
retrieve, you know, the the lowest asset of the state.
24:23
So we don't really know the details, but definitely the the
24:29
electorate has an expectation of of him doing it.
24:35
I mean, it's a bit similar to what Orban promised actually in
24:40
2010 that he would do with the previous socialist government.
24:45
And in the end he did not come to to very much.
24:49
Whether this time it will be different, I don't know.
24:52
I think it's an open question. And also what will happen with
24:56
all these state funded, but I mean at least on paper private
25:01
companies, which we can see already on the stock market How
25:07
the there is a big fall in their evaluation.
25:10
So yeah, the, the Hungarian economy is, is set for a quite
25:15
turbulent time and not only because of the possible criminal
25:20
investigations, but simply because the state was so
25:23
involved in the in the economy that it won't be too simple to
25:29
to undo this because there are also like banks involved, not
25:33
only like construction companies.
25:35
Peter Maggio, I mean, he, he's much better looking in real life
25:38
than he's on the posters. He's I think 45 years old.
25:41
He did that walking tour across Hungary.
25:44
You know, he comes across as a sort of felt, you know, whip it
25:47
like marathon runner personality.
25:50
And he's clearly a very smart campaigner.
25:52
But he's not very popular is he? Had a rather troubled marriage
25:56
and people aren't very nice about him as a person.
25:59
Can you tell us a bit more? He is definitely popular now,
26:02
although it's true that many people who who voted for them
26:06
are not really, you know, like him personally or they are not
26:11
even centre right. There is an electorate I think
26:15
for the left and for the Liberals, but simply there was
26:18
no other choice. So it's an open question, how,
26:23
how successful will he be in in uniting or keeping together?
26:27
He's not an Angel, and maybe, you know, he'll discover the
26:30
limits of that. Yeah, like not an Angel.
26:32
And maybe 1 aspect which is personally important for me is
26:37
how he behaves with the journalists and then toward the
26:40
independent media is also not very encouraging.
26:43
So many times when the Independent Press wrote
26:47
something negative about him or or Tissa, he called out the
26:51
journalist as propagandists that paid by fidders and so on and so
26:56
forth. So so yeah, I, I wouldn't bet on
27:01
him behaving like an injury towards the, the media in
27:06
government, but like sinks, at least in the media sector,
27:09
cannot really get any worse, only better at at least in the
27:14
in the short run, in my opinion. I think you're right there and
27:17
and no one likes journalists. Let's face it, Mitch, final one
27:20
to you. I mean, it's the real lesson
27:21
here of this election, a rather mundane one, which is whether
27:25
you're populist right or you're populist left, at the end of the
27:28
day, the biggest curse to any government, especially the
27:33
elected ones, is incumbency. Absolutely.
27:37
Even in a heavily gerrymandered system that's been completely
27:41
tilted to benefit the incumbent, After a while, if you're not
27:46
addressing issues around standards of living, people
27:50
aren't being made to feel better.
27:52
They're worried about their future.
27:53
Then you're going to you're going to face a major push back
27:57
at the ballot box. I do think we should just take a
28:00
second and recognize, though, what Meyer battled with both
28:04
internally. The system that he confronted,
28:07
which Orban effectively kept rigging over the 16 years he was
28:12
in power, combined with, as you said, that global nationalist,
28:15
populist forces from Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump to
28:19
effectively manage those internal and external
28:21
constraints and not only win but but deliver a 2/3 majority, I
28:26
think is an absolutely remarkable outcome.
28:29
And I should say, Matt, I imagine and we'll see with Maya
28:33
whether he now opens up and some of the concerns about how he
28:36
engages with the media, etcetera are resolved.
28:39
But one one perhaps signpost that gives me a bit of
28:44
confidence is the team that he has selected, in particular, his
28:48
choice of foreign minister, Anita Orban is his choice of
28:51
economy and finance minister. These are really smart,
28:55
competent people. They don't have executive or
28:58
political experience. But on substance, these are the
29:01
right people. And so let's see whether they
29:04
now can actually transition from campaigning to governing and
29:07
delivering, which is you. You and I know Matt, in the UK
29:10
context, for example, has not been straightforward, but that's
29:13
where the test I think now lies. And do you think that Maja could
29:17
become the poster boy for the kind of anti populist fight back
29:21
in the way that Orban was the poster boy?
29:24
Poster boy for the populist revolution in Europe.
29:26
I think people are going to be absolutely studying the
29:29
election, what Maya did, how the campaign worked, the strategies
29:34
involved very, very, very closely.
29:36
There are three major elections met in Europe next year, the big
29:40
one being France, right? If France turns far right, the
29:43
conversation we're having today will be what we're having in
29:46
reverse on steroids, because a France far right is a very
29:49
different proposition than a Hungary far right.
29:51
It would mean the end of the EU as we know it.
29:53
And so I think there will be a lot of people engaging with the,
29:57
my our team to understand what happened and what they did and
29:59
how they did what they did as they look to those elections
30:02
next year. But the hope absolutely will be
30:05
the that they can turn the tide now, and that momentum will move
30:08
in the other direction. See that Orban always claimed
30:11
that he made Hungary great, but he also made Orban greater.
30:14
What will Maja do? With himself at at least one
30:18
promise. Which is which gives me a
30:20
confidence is he said that he would introduce a A2 term limit
30:26
for the for the Prime Minister. So I think I think that's a good
30:31
sign and and I agree with with Mitch that the choice of people
30:36
around him, it was so looks quite good.
30:39
So Anita Orban, Ishvan Capitan and so on.
30:43
These are these are competent people like and I really hope
30:49
that, yeah, this time he or like the new, new government, we will
30:55
use this 2/3 opportunity wisely and and build back democracy
31:03
rather than, you know, entrenching their own powers.
31:08
And everyone will be watching ease and ever ears are still
31:10
ringing from last night's euphoria, which was, as we said
31:13
at the beginning, quite, quite extraordinary.
31:15
A night to remember, I think is the best way of summing it up.
31:19
Cela titsa Midrahman, thank you very much to both of you for
31:22
coming on the forecast. That's it for this special
31:24
edition from Budapest. I hope you enjoyed it.
31:27
See you next time.