Latest / Totally Normal Folks / Episode 005 - Finding Love in the Digital Age (feat. Indah G)

Transcript

Episode 005 - Finding Love in the Digital Age (feat. Indah G) · Totally Normal Folks

• 0:00
  OK, that's better. Yeah.
• 0:02
  Yeah. All right.
• 0:02
  Cool. Fantastic.
• 0:03
  Seriously, what should we have for lunch?
• 0:04
  I'm getting kind of hungry. We have the.
• 0:06
  There's a dim sum. Please, I was.
• 0:08
  There, we're already rolling and we like.
• 0:09
  Lunch. No, no, because, because we got
• 0:12
  to think about it. It's 12:00 now.
• 0:13
  We're probably gonna finish at 2 and by that.
• 0:16
  Time. There's like a bunch of.
• 0:17
  Restaurants nearby, we can just, like, walk.
• 0:18
  There many. That's how that's a good, that's
• 0:20
  a decent. Idea, yeah.
• 0:21
  Don't dock us though, do. You wanna have lunch with us?
• 0:26
  No pressure. No, it's.
• 0:27
  Not like the camera's recording or anything.
• 0:29
  No no, no, no. I'm just thinking because like I
• 0:31
  don't know what my mom wants to do after.
• 0:32
  This Oh, fair, no pressure. Why is there AY on me?
• 0:36
  What is that? It's the letter Yi.
• 0:39
  Know what is that is that your. Name why?
• 0:40
  Why is there? AY, where it came from,
• 0:42
  whatever. Why the Y?
• 0:43
  Why the Y? Why not?
• 0:45
  An A? Why not an A?
• 0:46
  Why not an A? That's a Ferrari, yeah.
• 0:48
  Exactly. There you go, you can.
• 0:51
  Open us up. Thank you very much.
• 0:52
  Welcome to Totally Normal Folks podcast, where Inda G just said
• 0:57
  that we shouldn't have an intro, but I'm doing one anyway because
• 1:00
  I don't know how else to start a podcast.
• 1:02
  I got to be honest, I come from the world of broadcast TV.
• 1:04
  You have to understand. Wait.
• 1:05
  So. Did you say in the G is with us
• 1:07
  right now to support the audio, audio listeners?
• 1:10
  Yes, Sir. Yes, Sir.
• 1:12
  She is in the G is with us right now.
• 1:13
  Yes, Sir, she is. And not only is she here, she
• 1:16
  actually reached out to me on on my Instagram saying I want to be
• 1:19
  on your podcast. So she functionally invited
• 1:22
  herself. Is that true to her podcast
• 1:23
  that? Is true and listen the shout out
• 1:27
  to the bass then though shout out to my best friend, my
• 1:30
  Pookie. Shout out to Bass and listen to
• 1:32
  Buzzer. Yeah, I'm going to be hanging
• 1:33
  out. I'm going to be inviting myself
• 1:34
  to that one too. I'm looking forward to that.
• 1:36
  Yeah. I I can't wait to see the to, to
• 1:38
  see the chemistry between the three of us.
• 1:39
  It's going to be quite interesting.
• 1:40
  Oh my God, it's going to be. See.
• 1:43
  The reason why I wanted to come on here, number one, I just, and
• 1:46
  I knew it. I knew it.
• 1:48
  We're just gonna be good friends.
• 1:49
  Yeah, I feel so validated right now I.
• 1:52
  Know it's crazy the. Energy for, for the, for our
• 1:56
  viewers, the the the few of you who don't know who energy is,
• 2:00
  can you like introduce yourself, please?
• 2:02
  Oh gosh, do I really have to? I mean, just a little bit.
• 2:05
  I mean, if you, if you've ever heard of me, then I'm sorry.
• 2:07
  But if you haven't, if you've never heard of me, I mean, I do
• 2:11
  this thing like on the Internet, like I talk about politics.
• 2:13
  I talk about political issues, social issues, governance, and
• 2:17
  which leads me to my next point, why I wanted to come on here.
• 2:20
  I wanted to get on a podcast show where not only I can vibe
• 2:22
  with the people, the hosts, you know of the show, but also I
• 2:26
  don't want to talk about politics.
• 2:27
  Zero politics. No, it's true.
• 2:28
  Yeah. Zero politics.
• 2:30
  No, I can't. We.
• 2:30
  We are we. Running politics timer under the
• 2:33
  screen is like whatever we scared the political because
• 2:36
  Ding. Ding every time.
• 2:38
  Every time in the G talks about like turns the conversation even
• 2:41
  remotely political thing. Stop right now.
• 2:44
  Here's the thing, we are famous for never talking politics on
• 2:47
  this podcast as well. That's crazy.
• 2:49
  Only totally normal opinions here.
• 2:51
  Only totally normal opinions. Yeah, It just so happens every
• 2:54
  single episode, you know? That you then diverge into.
• 2:58
  Talking about politics Exactly, yeah.
• 2:59
  Wonder Why wonder? We love our government, India,
• 3:01
  you have to understand. Well, I don't.
• 3:02
  We're a massive fan, no? I don't.
• 3:04
  Fuck the. Government, you know, fantastic.
• 3:08
  We'll do a great love it already 4 minute country burn. 4 minutes
• 3:12
  in. 4 minutes in, there you go. There you go.
• 3:15
  Ohh man, that's concerning. Do we need to be concerned about
• 3:18
  legal legal ramifications in this episode?
• 3:20
  You're asking that now, once the cameras have been rolling,
• 3:22
  That's true. Yes.
• 3:23
  Not, but we can always cut it off in the yeah, no, we can
• 3:25
  always cut it off. We can always like, censor the
• 3:27
  bits where we're like, censor the government.
• 3:30
  We're never gonna censor. Anything I feel like saying?
• 3:32
  That's what happens. I'm not saying that that's a
• 3:34
  particularly unique opinion. Yeah, I.
• 3:36
  Feel a lot of people are kinda. Be like.
• 3:37
  That's true. Anyway, that's a good point.
• 3:39
  Yeah, 90% of it. It's now become a mainstream
• 3:42
  opinion. It is.
• 3:43
  It is a mainstream opinion. Now, like it's been mainstream,
• 3:46
  right? No.
• 3:47
  Depending. This is where the counter goes
• 3:49
  Ding for the first time. By the way, we're.
• 3:53
  Here to talk about what are we talking?
• 3:54
  About We're here to talk about late dating in relationships
• 3:56
  because I think as you know, in the, I think I told you earlier,
• 4:00
  and as Daniel knows as well, he was at our wedding.
• 4:05
  At our wedding, at our wedding where we got married to each
• 4:08
  other, we're not married to each other.
• 4:11
  Really. No, no, I have AI have a wife
• 4:12
  and he has a wife, Zara, my lovely wife.
• 4:14
  Hi if you're watching. We just have happened to have
• 4:17
  had our weddings in the same week.
• 4:19
  We did. Yeah, we did.
• 4:20
  In the same week, in the same. Year your bestie so hard.
• 4:23
  That's crazy. Did.
• 4:24
  We plan that. We didn't.
• 4:25
  Plan that. No, we didn't plan it.
• 4:26
  It just so happened. The universe just thought like,
• 4:29
  yeah, you know, these people, let them, you know?
• 4:32
  We were like the, our, our, our motivation or our rational, our
• 4:37
  our rationale for that specific date was we wanted to find a
• 4:41
  Sunday on in, in what was it July, July.
• 4:46
  July. It's July.
• 4:47
  July I can check my ring. You'll be sleeping on the couch.
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  No. Oh, my God.
• 4:54
  Sunday in July. And that happened to be the only
• 4:56
  time that that particular hotel was available.
• 5:00
  So. So that fell in perfectly.
• 5:03
  Yeah. Because your wedding was the
• 5:05
  week after. Yeah.
• 5:06
  And that was perfect for us because we wanted to go on our
• 5:08
  honeymoon to Bali. That was a good thing.
• 5:11
  In the same week it was fantastic.
• 5:13
  Was a great time y'all. No, but the reason why I wanted
• 5:15
  to talk about dating was because since both of us are married,
• 5:19
  not to each other. Not to each other.
• 5:21
  How many times? Respectively.
• 5:22
  We have to keep respectively. Married I'm and I've been in a
• 5:26
  relationship with Zara since 2021 and you've been in a
• 5:31
  relationship with. Been relationship with my wife
• 5:33
  Winona since 2020. Yeah, we've been off the market
• 5:38
  for a long time. Yeah.
• 5:39
  And we don't really know what the sitch is down there for.
• 5:42
  Y'all in the trenches, you know what I'm saying?
• 5:45
  Yeah. Like, like, I've heard stories.
• 5:49
  I've heard stories from you. I've heard stories from our
• 5:53
  other friends about the Night Mayor of Dating in 2025 and
• 5:57
  2020. Six, Yeah.
• 5:59
  And it's such a relatable topic, you know, because everyone's
• 6:02
  looking for love, you know, everyone's looking for love, but
• 6:05
  it's, it's, it's tough out there.
• 6:06
  But diva in this economy, in this social, political, economic
• 6:10
  landscape that we are I'm. Dinging you and I'm Ding.
• 6:15
  Ding. Can you have the mental
• 6:17
  headspace to date in 2026? How do you like Obviously
• 6:24
  people? A lot of people use the apps, a
• 6:26
  lot of people use dating apps. But in your experience?
• 6:30
  No hate them. You don't.
• 6:31
  Want to use? No, I used to use them, but
• 6:33
  that's also for the intensive purposes.
• 6:35
  I used to be a whore. Listen and everything.
• 6:42
  About. Judgment.
• 6:43
  Listen, I'm an open book. I don't have nothing about me
• 6:45
  like this shit. It's all on the Internet.
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  I'm not telling nothing that I'm.
• 6:47
  Not supposed to be saying about myself.
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  I'm an open book. Listen, I used to be a whore,
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  right? Tinder wonderful app.
• 6:55
  There. You go.
• 6:55
  It's like a buffet, like an intercontinental buffet.
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  American Buffet one. Like that app And then Bumble is
• 7:02
  like Bumble. You could go either way.
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  The consensus with Tinder, you're there to fuck.
• 7:08
  There you go, Bumble. It could go either way, right?
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  Yeah. Like you're there for a good
• 7:12
  time, but then you end up saying for a long time with like this
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  one person. Like, you know, it could be for
• 7:16
  a hookup or it could be, you know, your actual partner and
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  then you get married. Fun fact.
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  Yeah, funny how you got that boy here.
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  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  That's how you met your wife. That's.
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  How I Met my wife. I met her on Bumble.
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  Actually, I love that you're. So fucking lucky.
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  You have to understand. Yeah, I.
• 7:31
  Know because the odds the odds are.
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  Really, it's stacked against you.
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  Like The Hunger Games? Not in your favor.
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  No, it's. Not how many people do you know,
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  like cut together with, you know, long term with their
• 7:42
  partner on Bumble, probably on Bumble or dating apps
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  specifically from dating apps or Bumble, yeah.
• 7:46
  OK, so dating apps in general, yeah, you want.
• 7:49
  Yeah, you may want. Because I because I know a
• 7:54
  surprising, A surprisingly large amount of people, yeah.
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  Really. Yeah, yeah, like four or five
• 8:00
  couples including. Him, yeah.
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  I mean I'd hazard to say not a lot, but then again like I
• 8:05
  normally don't know the lore of how like most of the people
• 8:08
  around me get into their relationships.
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  And I don't. Care so.
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  But if you so like, you used to be on the apps, right?
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  Yeah, but now no longer. No, Fuck no.
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  So like this this might be good for like people who depend on
• 8:24
  the apps. Like how would you find dates or
• 8:27
  partners without the apps? How do you do it?
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  See, the way that I'm doing it, I mean, listen, you could for
• 8:34
  y'all listening like y'all can go about it like any way like
• 8:36
  that suits you. But now I have sort of gone
• 8:39
  traditional in a sense because you know how they used to do it
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  back in the day where it's like, hey, like I got a friend.
• 8:45
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 8:47
  That's a that's a great and fantastic way to do it,
• 8:48
  honestly. Yeah, And someone who also
• 8:50
  recently got off the apps I like, right?
• 8:52
  Yeah, I have like, I don't know what happened, but like I did
• 8:54
  like 3 months ago and be like, you know what, fuck this, I'm
• 8:56
  done, right? Deleted it and I was like, you
• 8:59
  know what? Yeah, I just go around these two
• 9:01
  actually be like, hey yo, do any of you can you guys like hook me
• 9:05
  up with someone, bring someone to the party and stuff like that
• 9:09
  and. I do that.
• 9:11
  Right. Right.
• 9:12
  And I just, I feel like I don't know there, I mean, this might
• 9:16
  enter more spirituality realm and I'm not a very spiritual
• 9:20
  person, even though that's something that I'm like
• 9:22
  personally exploring in this moment in my life.
• 9:24
  Because I mean, for context, like I grew up atheist, right?
• 9:27
  Right. I went from an atheist to like,
• 9:29
  now I'm like agnostic looking for something, right?
• 9:32
  But you know, when I really think about it, like so much of
• 9:36
  when it comes to things like love, well, I was gonna say
• 9:40
  career, but maybe not career, but definitely love.
• 9:42
  I can say for certain with love, if that's really what you're
• 9:45
  looking for. OK, I'm not talking about a
• 9:47
  hookup. That's different.
• 9:48
  I'm talking about love. So don't force it.
• 9:53
  Don't force it. Don't push it.
• 9:55
  I don't know why I'm thinking about Céline Dion.
• 9:56
  There's like this one song like love comes to those who believes
• 10:00
  in them. Who believes?
• 10:01
  It sorry that what song is that? That's the way it is by Céline
• 10:05
  Dion. That's the way it is, yeah.
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  Yeah, Oh my God. Yes, yeah.
• 10:10
  And I. Think, and I think about that
• 10:13
  song a lot of just like, yeah, like don't when it especially
• 10:15
  when it comes to something as as I don't even know what the word,
• 10:20
  the adjective to describe love is like as not sacrament, but
• 10:24
  like something as pristine. I suppose.
• 10:28
  Say, say sacred. Yeah.
• 10:30
  I mean like for some people. Love sacred.
• 10:32
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like sacred, pristine, just
• 10:35
  something so. Special, I guess, yeah.
• 10:37
  Special. Yeah.
• 10:38
  There you go. Let it find you.
• 10:43
  Right. Let it find you.
• 10:44
  Don't. Don't force it.
• 10:45
  Yeah, I think that's fair. I think, you know, that's
• 10:48
  interesting because I feel like a lot of people do find their
• 10:52
  partners, yeah, in life when they're not looking.
• 10:55
  When they're not looking. I actually had a conversation
• 10:59
  with my mom. This is like after I had like a
• 11:01
  break up, a break up with a really long like a long term
• 11:05
  college partner. Yeah.
• 11:07
  And I was like, I've also been looking.
• 11:11
  I've been trying to date during that time.
• 11:12
  I was like, mom, I don't think I'm gonna, I'm going to be able
• 11:14
  to find anyone, I think, right? And I think I'm and I think I'm
• 11:17
  slowly going to be OK with that, right?
• 11:18
  And she looked at me like, like a sad puppy, poor boy, like she
• 11:24
  she was. Like a wet kitten.
• 11:25
  Yeah, she was. Like, she was really sad at me,
• 11:27
  but I was like, I think I'm, I'm warming up to that fact and I'm,
• 11:30
  I'm just trying to be OK, like not having to have a partner.
• 11:34
  Yeah. And then like shortly after that
• 11:36
  I met my current wife and I think like.
• 11:39
  Your forever wife. Yeah, my forever wife.
• 11:41
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 11:42
  How long was it between that time when you had that
• 11:45
  conversation with your mom and like, yeah, you finding your
• 11:48
  wife? I mean, it's definitely less
• 11:49
  than a year. It's less than a year.
• 11:50
  Because I was like early 2019 broke up and then like early
• 11:57
  2020 February, I met my wife. So it was in that time.
• 12:03
  So right, like it, it took some time, but like the moment I
• 12:07
  stopped trying to like I have to get a relationship right now.
• 12:11
  Yeah, right now I'll die. I was like, yeah, I'll do it.
• 12:15
  Just. Suddenly comes out of nowhere.
• 12:17
  Yeah, just like I'll just, I, I lowered my expectations like
• 12:20
  it's OK. Like like it can be something
• 12:22
  can be nothing. But like, I'll, I'll roll with
• 12:24
  it and then like, it happens, you know?
• 12:26
  I feel like did I cut anybody? Off No, no.
• 12:29
  No. I guess the caveat that I would
• 12:31
  add though, at the same time, like you can't realistically
• 12:34
  expect that you're going to attract the a person that is
• 12:39
  meant for you like to attract a potential partner when you're
• 12:43
  just cooped up in your bedroom. Yeah, no, it's true.
• 12:46
  Gotta get out. Right, Yeah, there is a, there
• 12:48
  is a degree to which like yes, don't chase after it, but at the
• 12:51
  same time have agency to play a more active role in the in the
• 12:57
  pursuit, right. I guess, yeah, you call it a,
• 13:00
  call it a pursuit, but it's a pursuit of 1 whereby put it this
• 13:05
  way, like bare minimum, like you gotta get out of the house.
• 13:08
  There you go. The house, go socialize, right?
• 13:10
  Go socialize, go. I'm not saying you gotta go to
• 13:12
  the clubs, you know, or you know, whatever, like go to bars,
• 13:15
  but just socialize. Um, I don't know, the church is
• 13:19
  your thing or the mosque is your thing.
• 13:20
  Go to church, go to the mosque, you know, go to your friends.
• 13:23
  Join a running club. Yeah, join a yes.
• 13:25
  Oh. My.
• 13:25
  Gosh, I know you're the running club.
• 13:27
  I've been hearing a lot about running clubs being like, yeah,
• 13:30
  also dating. Oh.
• 13:31
  Yeah, So here's the interesting thing, right?
• 13:32
  I think after like a couple years after the pandemic, you
• 13:35
  know, the, the the app started getting worse and worse and
• 13:37
  people were like, I'm going to go do social things and like
• 13:40
  running clubs became the next thing.
• 13:42
  I think it's just sort of like you are, it's good for yourself,
• 13:47
  but also for like the people who are like just in your social
• 13:51
  space. If you have a hobby, it just
• 13:55
  when you put yourself out there and like, you know, cuz I, I
• 13:58
  went through that phase as well-being, like I gotta find, I
• 14:00
  gotta find and I and I got so hyper focused on that that I can
• 14:03
  really like again, it's, it's also the other thing like where
• 14:07
  like you, you can sometimes you just know when you, you come
• 14:10
  across a bumble profile and be like, there's a sense of
• 14:12
  desperation here and like optimize it.
• 14:15
  Like that's the thing that I hate the most about Bumble
• 14:17
  interval was like these a lot of these things, even before
• 14:20
  ChatGPT, they'll be like, this is optimized for partner
• 14:23
  finding. Yeah, and it feels so like I
• 14:26
  feel like I'm reading someone's LinkedIn, right?
• 14:28
  And I'm like you can. Tell that they trying too hard.
• 14:30
  I was. Yeah, I was on that like because
• 14:32
  like I tried several apps. Right.
• 14:35
  Yeah. I did.
• 14:36
  I went like Tinder. Hinge.
• 14:39
  Didn't get nothing. Yeah, yeah, OK.
• 14:41
  Cupid a little bit more success and bumbles probably like my, in
• 14:45
  my experience, the best at the time.
• 14:47
  What about Hinge? I I don't even know hinge was a
• 14:50
  thing back then I think. When was it 20?
• 14:53
  20 It was 20, 2019-2020. Oh, then never mind.
• 14:56
  No. Yeah.
• 14:56
  And if you were here, then no. Yeah.
• 14:58
  No, yeah, I was here the entire. I was here so I didn't get
• 15:01
  hinged. So like, yeah, but I was like,
• 15:05
  man, what the fuck? Why am I not getting anything?
• 15:07
  Like, well, well, first I think it's one because I'm
• 15:11
  misunderstanding what women are finding attractive.
• 15:14
  Right. OK, Yeah.
• 15:16
  Because like, I'll be like, I'll be like.
• 15:19
  Peak male experience. I'll be putting up the most fuck
• 15:23
  boy douche baggiest fucking like backwards cap shirtless bullshit
• 15:30
  and I'm like, why am I not gonna go to girls?
• 15:34
  Bro. But but then like.
• 15:36
  You and like 3000 other guys, huh?
• 15:40
  Reading into it a little bit more like, OK, oh, so I, I gotta
• 15:43
  show that I'm kind, a kind hearted guy.
• 15:46
  I gotta smile. Maybe have a dog with me or
• 15:49
  something. The dog help.
• 15:50
  The dog help. Girls like guys who are like,
• 15:53
  just a little goofy, you know? Yeah.
• 15:54
  Or at least. Comfortable being because no one
• 15:57
  likes to like. Yeah.
• 15:58
  Yeah, look at me. I'm a man.
• 16:00
  And someone wants to like, you know, they want to have, you
• 16:03
  know, they want to have like dinners, they want to go out to
• 16:05
  the park. So you can't do that with
• 16:06
  someone who's like a fucking solid block of wood.
• 16:08
  You know that that you'd be. Surprised at how misconstrued a
• 16:13
  lot of men and boys are that like, I thought that's what
• 16:16
  girls like, you know? But it's not.
• 16:18
  It's crazy. I mean, so much of what society
• 16:24
  has conditioned, OK, So if we're going to talk about men and
• 16:26
  boys, so much of what society has conditioned men and boys to
• 16:29
  think is attractive to the opposite sex, to the opposite
• 16:33
  gender is actually for the male gays.
• 16:37
  It's the equivalent of, oh, my gosh, no.
• 16:39
  Because one time I got into a debate.
• 16:41
  I don't know if the episode is still up on my podcast show in
• 16:45
  the G Show. It's a shout out.
• 16:47
  To the indig show we're plugging into the show.
• 16:49
  Plugging. Into our office 7. 100
• 16:53
  followers. No listen, no listen, this,
• 16:56
  this, this episode is going to attract new people.
• 16:59
  OK, manifesting. Manifesting.
• 17:01
  Yes, exactly. No, but I had an episode
• 17:04
  debating this and it was with Ray Nathaniel, like who's also a
• 17:08
  a public figure that's a famous name.
• 17:11
  And I can't remember specifically, but we were
• 17:14
  talking about, you know, those gym selfies that men like to
• 17:16
  take. Yeah.
• 17:18
  The gym selfies. Like you just, you know, like
• 17:20
  you're just lifting weights. You're pumping.
• 17:21
  And everything there you. Go and there's like a very
• 17:23
  specific way that you men will take those gym selfies and I
• 17:27
  know and you can tell that it is with the purpose and intention
• 17:31
  of basically fluffing your feathers to the opposite sector.
• 17:34
  Like Peacocks? Yeah.
• 17:36
  And, and it's so funny because when I was having that
• 17:39
  discussion with Ray, that was the moment and that the both of
• 17:42
  us. No, I realized that he realized,
• 17:44
  I made him realize that that it's you don't do that for
• 17:50
  women. You do that for other men.
• 17:53
  You do that to flex on other men.
• 17:55
  You do that to 1 of other men. You do that to show up for other
• 17:58
  men. And I'm reminded of, I mean,
• 18:01
  that this is getting into like, feminist discourse, like
• 18:03
  territory, but more. Secure.
• 18:05
  So I know y'all don't mind what I think a lot about how a lot of
• 18:10
  men actually don't like women. No, Yeah, sure, sure.
• 18:15
  Expand on that please. A lot of men do not like women,
• 18:20
  but they're straight you. A lot of straight men don't like
• 18:26
  women, but they want to fuck women, and a lot of men can't
• 18:29
  tell the difference between that.
• 18:31
  Yeah. Yeah, right.
• 18:33
  Yeah. So and so I recently I was
• 18:36
  talking about this with a with a girlfriend of mine.
• 18:38
  I'm very confused by especially unfortunately you have to admit
• 18:44
  like Indonesia when it comes to things like gender equality and
• 18:47
  just like not viewing women as like second class.
• 18:49
  Citizens. Like we're very behind on.
• 18:51
  That right so. It really baffles me whenever I
• 18:53
  come across Indonesian men, let's talk about specifically
• 18:56
  Indonesian men that they, they're straight, right?
• 19:01
  And they claim that they're straight.
• 19:02
  I believe that no, they're, they're very much they're
• 19:04
  sexually attracted to, to women and on.
• 19:09
  And in the same breath that they are demanding that Oh yeah,
• 19:14
  women should fulfill these gender norms and gender
• 19:18
  stereotypes, right? Like ascribe to all of these,
• 19:21
  you know, the, the, the stereotypical profile of being
• 19:25
  not even just a Good Wife, but like a woman that is feminine,
• 19:28
  right? She does, she, she, she does her
• 19:30
  makeup, she does her hair, she appears feminine.
• 19:33
  She acts feminine. She's, you know, gentle, you
• 19:35
  know, whatever, right. So it's very confusing when a
• 19:38
  lot of men demand that they want a woman that is feminine, but
• 19:45
  you but you only want the the feminine parts that are
• 19:49
  convenient to you, whereas the other feminine parts that are an
• 19:53
  inconvenience to you. Like how often will men complain
• 19:56
  like, Oh my God, like my girl, she takes such a long time to
• 19:58
  like do her makeup. Like why she always.
• 20:00
  Having her makeup. Why she always got?
• 20:01
  To do her hair like I mean, babe, you really got to do this.
• 20:03
  That's true. Or like there how often I've
• 20:06
  also come across men, they will put down women's interests.
• 20:10
  Yeah, women. 'S.
• 20:11
  Interests. Yeah.
• 20:12
  It happens a lot, yeah. Like, OK, I think recently,
• 20:15
  what, like the end of last year, we had the Victoria's Secret
• 20:18
  Fashion show, right? The Victoria's Secret runway
• 20:20
  fashion. The Oh yeah, the Victoria's
• 20:23
  Secret. No, I'm saying it's with.
• 20:24
  Twice now I have no idea. I think Thailand.
• 20:31
  The thing is, even I didn't watch it, right?
• 20:33
  But it's more so in acknowledgement that a lot of
• 20:38
  women for various reasons, of course, tune into that, right?
• 20:42
  As sort of like, like, whether it's for the sense of
• 20:45
  camaraderie, like it's something that women get together and
• 20:47
  like, you know, we'll, we'll watch the Victoria's Secret
• 20:50
  Fashion Show or Desperate Housewives, like, like shitty
• 20:53
  reality. TV, right?
• 20:55
  And how often often will men put that down as something as being
• 20:58
  like, intellectually inferior or like, yeah, or just inferior in
• 21:02
  in whatever way you don't. First of all, you don't see
• 21:05
  women doing that when men get together.
• 21:06
  Talk about cars. Yeah, I know it's true.
• 21:08
  It happens a lot. It happens a lot.
• 21:10
  They're like, they don't, they don't, they don't view them as
• 21:14
  like a whole human. Human.
• 21:16
  Like they only like the the the fun part.
• 21:18
  Well, and then the fact that you uphold, you uphold gender norms,
• 21:23
  right? You, you uphold gender roles
• 21:26
  because gender roles are in gender norms.
• 21:28
  Like they don't, they don't kind of happen in a vacuum.
• 21:30
  Do you understand? Like, for example, like you
• 21:31
  can't have a woman. You want a woman that presents
• 21:34
  herself feminine, right? Like a lot of, OK, let me speak
• 21:38
  very directly and fastly here because anyways, that's what I'm
• 21:41
  known for. A lot of men like the way that I
• 21:43
  look. A lot of men think I'm
• 21:43
  attractive. And I know that I see my DMS
• 21:45
  like I'm not stupid, right? So you can't like this and you
• 21:50
  can't want this mug beat right and then complain why you take
• 21:56
  why, why you had to spend 30 minutes to do your makeup, you
• 21:58
  know? Exactly.
• 21:59
  You're right, you're right. You can't you, you can't do
• 22:01
  that. Like it doesn't happen in a
• 22:02
  vacuum. I don't wake up looking like
• 22:03
  this boy. Yeah, it takes work, Yeah, and
• 22:05
  dedication and effort. And then they complain that
• 22:08
  women wear too much makeup. Exactly.
• 22:10
  And then? They don't.
• 22:11
  Know they actually say, yeah, you find that a lot in like, you
• 22:13
  know, more like insulating stuff like I don't want a girl with
• 22:15
  like too much makeup and stuff like that.
• 22:17
  No. And Oh my gosh, I am so sorry.
• 22:19
  Yeah, but one time I was in PIM with a guy friend of mine.
• 22:22
  We you are in PIM. And this guy friend of mine,
• 22:25
  he's that kind of guy. He's like, I don't wanna, you
• 22:28
  know, I like my women natural. I like I like natural women.
• 22:32
  Oh. Yeah.
• 22:33
  Is he more like an insole, that kind of person, or is he more
• 22:35
  like a like a male manipulator? What did you say?
• 22:39
  Insole male manipulator. They're surprisingly, I think
• 22:42
  it's just like how well they're like, OK.
• 22:43
  You know what? Keep this in like did you see
• 22:45
  like I posted on my story? I did post it.
• 22:47
  Yeah, I did. I did see a post.
• 22:48
  Yeah, about time. Friend of mine turns out that he
• 22:51
  has raped minors and he possesses and produce produce
• 22:54
  child. Yeah, it's this.
• 22:56
  Guy OK. Yeah, way before I knew all of
• 22:58
  this, obviously. Right?
• 22:59
  Christ. Jesus, but we were in PIM.
• 23:01
  Together and you know he's the type I you know I like my women
• 23:03
  natural. I don't want, you know, I don't
• 23:04
  like too much makeup and everything.
• 23:06
  And then we were talking about this exact topic of like, you
• 23:09
  know, beauty standards that and that are imposed upon women to
• 23:14
  appeal, appeal to the male gays. And then he he pointed out a a
• 23:17
  reference. We were exactly, you know, you
• 23:19
  guys know where in Pim 2 there's Watson's and then just the
• 23:21
  Gymathan like ninja window and. Then there's like a a clinic.
• 23:24
  Over there and there's a, there's a poster of a of a woman
• 23:28
  like from a like a model, right? A model.
• 23:31
  And he referenced that as like, yeah, see make up like this.
• 23:33
  Like it's not too much. Like it's natural but not.
• 23:36
  Makeup. Right bro, that's.
• 23:38
  There's a lot of makeup on that. Yeah, it's already.
• 23:41
  Going on a poster? Yeah, there's.
• 23:44
  Stylists. Going into that, there's
• 23:45
  probably like some some like graphic designer with a
• 23:49
  Photoshop is touching up that image because they're confused.
• 23:52
  Also about like what it is that they think is natural.
• 23:56
  Yeah, exactly. That's true.
• 23:57
  Yeah. And.
• 23:58
  It's also I. And I understand like, I guess
• 23:59
  to get to give grace to like the men that fall victim to this
• 24:03
  misconception. Is that because beauty?
• 24:05
  Beauty standards have also been how, how, how do I wear this?
• 24:11
  Beauty standards have been pushed in a way whereby women
• 24:16
  are expected to look like low effort, but it actually takes
• 24:21
  high effort. Yeah, No, yeah.
• 24:23
  Like no makeup? Makeup.
• 24:23
  Yeah, I've heard of that, right? Yeah, OK.
• 24:26
  I clearly look at this face like I didn't hire no fucking makeup
• 24:29
  artist. I do my own makeup.
• 24:30
  I do my own beat, right? So I know how to do makeup.
• 24:32
  Let me tell you something about. Thank you.
• 24:35
  Yeah. Real quick aside, how long did
• 24:36
  it take you to do this makeup? 30 minutes.
• 24:38
  There you go. Wow.
• 24:39
  Yeah, that's. Quite.
• 24:40
  Fast. That's quite fast for this full
• 24:42
  beat. Bitch, listen, I look like I'm
• 24:43
  about to go on a up and runway, like I just rush, OK, OK. 30
• 24:48
  minutes is quick. For this, that's fast.
• 24:50
  Anyways, let me tell you something about no makeup.
• 24:52
  Makeup that shit. Minimum 25 minutes.
• 24:55
  There you go. There's a lot of technical.
• 24:58
  It's a lot of. Technique to make sure that you
• 25:01
  are that. It comes.
• 25:03
  Across look, it, it's a it's a curated version of natural.
• 25:07
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 25:08
  And it takes a lot of technique in order to do that.
• 25:10
  And a lot of men don't understand it.
• 25:11
  And so men will be like having podcasts and everything run
• 25:15
  their mouths about how, yeah, women like, no, don't you really
• 25:19
  don't need all that makeup. Bitch, if I didn't wear all that
• 25:21
  makeup on the first day, you wouldn't even look at me.
• 25:23
  You know what's even crazier is. The fact that all all they need
• 25:26
  to do to be able to learn all these things and to actually
• 25:28
  create a better connection with their partners is to actually
• 25:32
  just ask and like show some interest that it'd be like, hey,
• 25:35
  just talk to everybody just. Talk about it, yeah.
• 25:38
  Just you know what could it be? There's a, there's a, there's a
• 25:41
  whole. There's a whole thing that's
• 25:42
  been there's a whole discussion that's been going on over the
• 25:45
  last several years about what the we we talked about it last
• 25:47
  night, the male loneliness epidemic and this was like I.
• 25:52
  Mean. I'm a guy.
• 25:54
  I'm a guy. I have.
• 25:55
  To admit I've I've, I've, I've, you know I've.
• 26:00
  What's it called when you add to something contribute.
• 26:04
  Thank you very much. I've contributed.
• 26:06
  To the patriarchy in in many of my own ways and so and I'm still
• 26:08
  trying to like work on that. But at the same time, if you
• 26:11
  really wish if you really just want to have a great time with
• 26:14
  your partner. If you really want to just, you
• 26:15
  know, truly connect and be and not be happy, but be, you know,
• 26:18
  content and just. Start to find a way to.
• 26:22
  Build a life together, then just fucking be interested in what
• 26:24
  they're interested in. Yeah.
• 26:25
  You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly.
• 26:26
  Yeah. My my.
• 26:27
  Wife tries. Her my wife tries her, tries her
• 26:30
  damnedest to be interested in Formula One as much as I know
• 26:33
  that every single time I watch Formula One, after 30 minutes I
• 26:37
  just look like she's like. Well, like get on her for trying
• 26:40
  that's. Her, that's her thing.
• 26:43
  And so the. Least I can do.
• 26:44
  It's like, hey babe, what skin care is that?
• 26:47
  Can I try it on? You know what I mean?
• 26:48
  The bare fucking minimum. The bare fucking minimum no.
• 26:51
  And also skin care is not for. Hers.
• 26:52
  It's for you. It's for me as well.
• 26:53
  No, it's true. It's true sunscreen, I do.
• 26:56
  Ever since. Ever since ever since she well
• 26:58
  no, she's got mad at me multiple times for for.
• 27:00
  Not doing my skin. Care and I've been better at it
• 27:03
  and she's like, there you go. I feel also like.
• 27:05
  The male loneliness epidemic, like people kind of like confuse
• 27:11
  it for oh, I'm not getting laid enough.
• 27:14
  That's true. There's also.
• 27:15
  That I'm I. As a male, am owed sex and I'm
• 27:20
  not getting it. So I'm giving sex an epidemic.
• 27:23
  Yeah, heavy on. That even though like you can't.
• 27:25
  Like, I think loneliness at this like point in time effects men
• 27:33
  and women equally. And that, and that goes beyond
• 27:37
  just like all the surface level stuff.
• 27:39
  It's just the destruction of like third spaces and like
• 27:42
  people not being able to afford things in general.
• 27:48
  And I think like male illness epidemic can be solved by just
• 27:51
  having that kind of like if you're between your, you know,
• 27:54
  your friends, your male friends, that, that, that bond, that that
• 27:58
  friendship, that brotherhood can also be like, you know, can also
• 28:02
  alleviate the the loneliness epidemic.
• 28:03
  It's not just, you know, like, like you got to have the sex.
• 28:06
  Yeah, for sure. You got it.
• 28:08
  You got to have. The sex, if I'm not getting
• 28:10
  laid, I'm part of the middle on this epidemic.
• 28:12
  Like that's, you know you're not owed that, But there's also the
• 28:15
  issue. Of But there's also the issue of
• 28:17
  the kind of people that you surround yourself with, the kind
• 28:19
  of men that you surround yourself with, like I surround
• 28:21
  myself with you goobers, you know what I mean?
• 28:25
  Yeah, look at it like I love you.
• 28:26
  Bro, we are. We're so.
• 28:27
  I don't know. We're alpha.
• 28:28
  We're not exhaust. Oh.
• 28:31
  My. God.
• 28:31
  Probables we're, we're we're we're quite we're.
• 28:34
  Quite comfortable with our feminine side and we're quite
• 28:35
  comfortable with sort of like, you know, not being the most
• 28:37
  masculine people in the world. And that's fine.
• 28:40
  Toxic masculinity is fucking horrible sexy.
• 28:42
  Oh, thank. You.
• 28:43
  That's so sexy. And not only and beyond sexy
• 28:46
  like let OK, I'm the. Woman in.
• 28:49
  In this panel, her opinion is valid.
• 28:52
  Very, very, very. Certified opinion.
• 28:55
  It's not just sexy because. Obviously confidence is
• 28:58
  inherently sexy, right? Yeah.
• 28:59
  And inherently. Sexy quality to have.
• 29:01
  But it's also it's safe. I think we want.
• 29:04
  To feel a thing. A lot of men.
• 29:06
  Underestimate how much like the how much a woman is even able to
• 29:13
  feel safe with you, open up with you, get attract, be attracted
• 29:17
  to you. It's not just your sex.
• 29:19
  It's not just your sex appeal. Yeah, yeah, like if.
• 29:21
  You're a sexy. Hunk of a member.
• 29:23
  I feel like he's about to beat me up, like I'm not.
• 29:25
  Yeah, you know what? I.
• 29:26
  Mean it's threatening, isn't it? Yeah, if.
• 29:27
  I feel like I gotta walk on egg. Shells around you because God
• 29:29
  forbid I say 1 bad thing and then you like yell at me, spit
• 29:31
  in my face, which unfortunately happens, right?
• 29:35
  Because a lot of men have fucking anger issues.
• 29:37
  Yeah, it's the pin that we'll talk about that a little bit.
• 29:41
  A. Lot of men underestimate how
• 29:43
  some listen, if it's really not that hard to pull bitches, you
• 29:46
  you really want to and I don't mean pull bitches like for for
• 29:48
  sex. Now that's a different that's a
• 29:50
  different conversation. If you want to, if you want to
• 29:52
  pull women, you want to. You want a woman that loves you,
• 29:58
  right? So much.
• 29:59
  Enough for us. You have to give her safety.
• 30:00
  Yeah, yeah. Reassurance.
• 30:02
  Be. Kind.
• 30:04
  Be someone who listens, yes, and not be super aggro, right?
• 30:11
  But that's the. Thing.
• 30:12
  That a lot of men think that that's what women want.
• 30:16
  Yeah. Like the big muscley guy who
• 30:18
  like, super macho and everything.
• 30:20
  Yeah. And it's interesting because
• 30:21
  there was like, there was like a meme or a post or something
• 30:24
  where it's like, it's Hugh Jackman.
• 30:27
  Yeah. In two different magazines.
• 30:29
  There's one that's like Men's Health and where he's like, he's
• 30:32
  like, you're like towards the fucking like, like super
• 30:34
  shirtless shit like. Shit.
• 30:37
  Like Wolverine type shit. And then there's like one or
• 30:41
  it's like a magazine more more geared towards women.
• 30:43
  And he's wearing like a really I snit sweater and he's smiling
• 30:46
  and smiling. Yeah.
• 30:47
  Like that just shows like the. Difference in like, the gaze of
• 30:51
  like, what men think women want and what women actually want.
• 30:55
  Yeah, exactly. And that's lost on people.
• 30:58
  Yes. A funny story, actually.
• 31:01
  Like my wife, when she found my dating profile, she was kind of
• 31:06
  like really on the fence actually, because.
• 31:10
  They're muscular because of the different.
• 31:13
  Photos that I put up. One rich like.
• 31:17
  Oh, this guy looks really nice, but then like some wait, this
• 31:21
  guy might Loki be a fuck boy those.
• 31:24
  Figures, actually. Like I have actually.
• 31:26
  I still have them. Yes, please show us.
• 31:28
  One of the. Things I.
• 31:29
  Really wanted to bring up was your dating profile from back
• 31:32
  then because I'm really curious about what got Mona I really
• 31:35
  like. Oh yes, I've never actually
• 31:37
  seen. His dating profile that actually
• 31:39
  me too I'm so gay I need to. See the dating profile.
• 31:40
  That got you married, bro. It's.
• 31:44
  It was so 5050. And, and that's why I, that's
• 31:46
  why I say to a lot of people like, sure, I met my wife on
• 31:49
  Bumble on a dating app, but like I don't like keep your
• 31:53
  expectations low. Don't, don't expect that that
• 31:56
  would happen to you. Not not because of one in a
• 31:58
  million, literally, it's like I'm better than you or anything
• 32:00
  like that. But the eating apps are not in
• 32:02
  is they're not in your favorite row.
• 32:03
  They really are not. And they've.
• 32:04
  Gotten worse. They've gotten worse.
• 32:06
  They've gotten worse. Now it.
• 32:07
  Really. Yeah.
• 32:08
  And then? And also.
• 32:09
  You also you'll also always have to remember.
• 32:11
  Let's have a look these. Yeah, that.
• 32:13
  Dating profiles you. Can tell me?
• 32:16
  Which pictures are the female gaze pictures and which are not?
• 32:21
  OK, go on. Sorry.
• 32:23
  Hold on. That's OK, I can swipe.
• 32:24
  Either where do I swipe? I think there's.
• 32:27
  Like a bunch of figures, right? Those are screenshots.
• 32:28
  Just go. Go right, left.
• 32:30
  Yeah. Oh, OK, you can.
• 32:30
  You can. OK, I think this is.
• 32:32
  The male gaze this is that's so fuck boy those.
• 32:35
  Glasses. Yeah, those glasses.
• 32:38
  Those. Guys, look at.
• 32:39
  Jack so fuck boy. Sorry.
• 32:41
  Where's your Dale's T-shirt bro? Oh.
• 32:44
  My gosh, I mean. What is this?
• 32:49
  Is this? The milk, would you say?
• 32:51
  This is 100% for the male gaze. Like, listen, you took this
• 32:54
  photo and you post that way. You you post that way in mind
• 32:59
  like this, like, yeah, this is it's.
• 33:02
  It's it's not. It's it's not to attract women,
• 33:04
  it's to signal to other men. Can I just say something though
• 33:08
  real? Quick that that that that
• 33:10
  picture will do numbers on a grinder.
• 33:14
  Honestly. Like like I.
• 33:15
  No. I get a lot of attention.
• 33:18
  There are, yeah, because there are, there are friends of mine
• 33:20
  who are followers of this podcast who are who are gay, not
• 33:23
  going to mention their names. If you're listening, you know
• 33:25
  who you are. We're like, damn.
• 33:28
  Yeah. Like some of the pictures that
• 33:29
  you do. We know when we're out of
• 33:30
  parties and you take picture and then there's obviously there's
• 33:32
  pictures where you are performing for the camera for
• 33:34
  fun. They're obviously like that.
• 33:36
  Would that that would do. I've, I've accepted the fact
• 33:39
  that like, like a lot of gay men, like how I look, right?
• 33:45
  It has been the case. No, no such effects.
• 33:46
  Because listen, you don't really.
• 33:48
  It is. You.
• 33:49
  Pull both ends. Yeah, that's amazing, I guess.
• 33:52
  Like a lot of people, like a lot of men, they, they have like
• 33:56
  this, this, this thinking in their head, like if I go to the
• 34:00
  gym, I don't want to go to the gym.
• 34:02
  I'll see a lot of gay people there and they're gonna comment
• 34:05
  on me like first. Hold on.
• 34:11
  And also like. Like that, that to me is like a
• 34:13
  compliment. I'm like, OK, well, as long as
• 34:15
  they're not like, weird or like or like being like, super
• 34:18
  harassed. Harassed.
• 34:19
  Yeah. They're just like, not.
• 34:20
  Complimenting like, yeah, that's, I just gotta say a lot.
• 34:23
  Of straight men fear gay men for the exact same behaviors that a
• 34:27
  lot of straight men do to women it's so true it's.
• 34:29
  So yeah, that's crazy. They're not surprised.
• 34:32
  Most most men are like, afraid of like gay.
• 34:34
  That's definitely the. The one of the photos where my
• 34:37
  wife like, no, I don't know about this guy.
• 34:40
  I don't know about this one. OK, listen, your wife is
• 34:42
  probably gonna be listening to this.
• 34:43
  She's gonna be listening to this, right?
• 34:44
  And like do. Not take this, do not take this
• 34:47
  the wrong way, but obviously like he's off the market.
• 34:49
  But I'm just saying back then when I was a whore, if I looked
• 34:51
  at this and my only agenda, like, listen, I wasn't like
• 34:54
  trying to date or no, like nothing, right?
• 34:55
  I was just looking for a good Dick to fuck.
• 34:57
  I would have immediately swiped right on this.
• 34:59
  Yeah. And immediately.
• 35:00
  Swiped right on this like this is.
• 35:01
  Gonna be good sex myself esteem. Is through the room.
• 35:06
  Again, I say that. Respectfully of grain of salt,
• 35:09
  respectfully of this is a reference.
• 35:11
  Point right, exactly right. Let's take a look at the next
• 35:12
  one. This next one is like.
• 35:14
  This one is better. This one is like, 'cause you're
• 35:16
  smiling, I'm not smiling, right? Yeah.
• 35:18
  Yeah, he's just. Smiling like a happy.
• 35:20
  And everything. And then you mentioned
• 35:21
  Kangaroos, but it's about punching Kangaroos.
• 35:23
  I don't like men that are violent towards towards.
• 35:25
  Animals so. There you go.
• 35:26
  I didn't I. I don't.
• 35:27
  Actually, punch, there was a tweet that I made.
• 35:29
  Female gay. Funny female gay, right?
• 35:31
  They're. Good female gay.
• 35:32
  This is a goofy little guy smile.
• 35:34
  They travel. Oh.
• 35:35
  This is. It's for the male gaze.
• 35:36
  For sure. There's a lot.
• 35:37
  Yeah, this one's for. You're a male gaze.
• 35:40
  Yeah, mean muggin. Yes, exactly.
• 35:41
  Yeah, if you're a mean muggin, you'd.
• 35:43
  Be like who are you fighting bro?
• 35:48
  See. Because this second photo right
• 35:50
  here, the one you, the 1, you smiling.
• 35:52
  See, back then, when I was a whore and my agenda was to just
• 35:55
  fuck, I would have I would have been like, too nice, right?
• 35:58
  Yeah. Too nice, too nice.
• 36:00
  OK, listen, I'm a whore. I'm a ethical whore.
• 36:02
  How? How did you?
• 36:03
  How do you Why do you think it's too nice again I'm.
• 36:06
  Not smiling. I know I might be a whore, but
• 36:07
  I'm an ethical whore. Listen.
• 36:09
  Like I don't want to fuck up the the.
• 36:10
  Good guys I don't want to fuck up the good guys I.
• 36:14
  Don't want to fuck up the good guys.
• 36:15
  So I go for all the bad boys. They.
• 36:17
  Always give me a good time, bad boys.
• 36:18
  Deserve it. Yeah, this is.
• 36:21
  This is like a. Sin eater personality where
• 36:23
  we'll be like, yeah, they're, you know, it's on par Yeah,
• 36:25
  exactly, yeah, yeah, even. Grounds.
• 36:27
  You know, like I like. I objectify you, you objectify
• 36:30
  me. Like I use your body, you use
• 36:32
  mine. Yeah, it's true.
• 36:33
  It's fair. It's.
• 36:33
  A It's a fair transaction between two parties.
• 36:35
  Exactly. Yeah.
• 36:36
  Yes, exactly. So yeah.
• 36:37
  You know, for all of you listening to this, and maybe
• 36:39
  you're going through that whole phase that I was going through
• 36:41
  in college, totally fine. Just listen, if you're gonna be
• 36:44
  a whore #1 be smart #2 be kind. Yep.
• 36:48
  And be careful. And.
• 36:49
  Be careful. And be safe.
• 36:50
  Be. Smart, Yes, Yeah, yeah.
• 36:52
  Yeah, be smart, get tested. Yeah, I got tested a lot also.
• 36:55
  I mean. Most likely.
• 36:56
  Be careful, like not to put yourself in any danger.
• 36:59
  Yeah, that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 37:02
  And it goes, actually, it goes both ways, because I definitely
• 37:05
  acknowledge that there are a lot of women out there that are
• 37:07
  crazy and dangerous for men. But I mean, we have to also face
• 37:10
  the facts, especially for women. Where are these?
• 37:12
  Where are these crazy these? Things are leading.
• 37:13
  Heavily towards a secondary attack and it's.
• 37:16
  Also a very different kind of danger, you know?
• 37:18
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes and a but and dating.
• 37:21
  Apps I don't know if you guys noticed dating apps are 70% men,
• 37:25
  30% women. Is that where is?
• 37:27
  That statistic from I think it's I.
• 37:29
  Believe it's on Tinder. OK, but there's like, it's not
• 37:33
  always going to be the same in all apps obviously, but there's
• 37:36
  a big like excuse towards men specifically because you said
• 37:41
  it's from Tinder. Now, it would be interesting if
• 37:42
  we have data from Bumble because again, like, bear in mind,
• 37:46
  Tinder has always had this reputation, like, you're there
• 37:48
  to fuck. Yeah, versus Bumble.
• 37:50
  It's 5050, either oil, right? And.
• 37:52
  Wasn't it initially marketed? Towards women, we're like, only
• 37:54
  women can start the conversation.
• 37:56
  Oh yeah, because. Wait.
• 37:57
  Does do? Women don't start the
• 37:59
  conversation anymore on Bumble. I think they've.
• 38:02
  Made changes to that, have they? I think, I'm not sure, but I
• 38:05
  think there are options now where you can, if you want to,
• 38:09
  there's a setting where you can like I'm gonna let them start
• 38:12
  the conversation for you, OK? It's a good.
• 38:14
  Way to filter out because you know, we we don't we don't like
• 38:19
  we don't like men all too much no, but to but to be.
• 38:22
  Fair on on the. Dating apps, some women, they do
• 38:25
  not put in any effort, but yeah, they do not put in no effort.
• 38:29
  Like like the the first thing, just put it out of the way.
• 38:33
  They're gonna they're gonna say hi or they're gonna say just
• 38:35
  like a very short answer and never, never get back to you,
• 38:38
  right? Exactly.
• 38:40
  Like if, if. You please, for the love of God,
• 38:42
  put some personality into your hobby.
• 38:44
  Sorry, put some personalities into your profile, like hobby.
• 38:48
  Just don't just give me like, I like, OK, not to be like super
• 38:52
  misogynistic about this, but like, I've literally seen so
• 38:55
  many problems where like, I like shopping and I'm like, this
• 39:00
  can't be real. I like generated.
• 39:04
  Am I talking about right now like movies?
• 39:06
  I like movies. And then like, yeah.
• 39:09
  Or sometimes they're like the profiles that I hate the most
• 39:12
  where they don't put any information is just a bunch of
• 39:14
  pictures. Yeah.
• 39:16
  Yeah, yeah. Or sometimes it.
• 39:17
  Is a bunch of pictures and they'd be like, yes, my ideal
• 39:20
  man is like above something something centimeters right and.
• 39:25
  Then I'd be. Like wow, Jesus Christ, it's a
• 39:29
  problem. For both men and women on the
• 39:31
  platforms where they can be so bare bones with the profiles.
• 39:35
  Like, give me something, man. Because yeah, I feel like.
• 39:38
  This is the also another part of this conversation is a lot of
• 39:41
  people get on dating apps not because you're actually
• 39:44
  interested in either pursuing a romantic or a relationship, but
• 39:47
  it's because you are you feel pressured to partake in the same
• 39:53
  activity because everybody else around you is doing the same
• 39:55
  thing, right? That's a good point.
• 39:56
  Yeah, love to talk about. That yeah, yeah, it's about the.
• 39:59
  It's something that I I thought about during that dating phase,
• 40:02
  which is like, do I want to cast the widest net possible?
• 40:06
  To appeal to the most amount of women possible?
• 40:09
  Or do I want to like actually be niche and find the person that I
• 40:13
  actually want to be with? Because a lot of like.
• 40:15
  Those dating app right tips and. Stuff.
• 40:18
  They like, this is how you get the most matches possible.
• 40:21
  But do you want that? Like, yeah, you're in there.
• 40:24
  I mean, assuming most people are in there because they want to
• 40:27
  get one person. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 40:29
  Yeah. Under the assumption that you're
• 40:31
  looking for, yeah. But serious long term monogamous
• 40:33
  relationship, yes. Yeah, because testing a wide net
• 40:36
  is great if you're like, like, yeah, if you're trying.
• 40:38
  To get laid, Yeah, you're trying to get laid.
• 40:40
  Left and. Right then yeah, that's like
• 40:41
  amazing. But at the same time, like even
• 40:43
  with, even with getting laid. Yeah, I've heard of the paradox
• 40:46
  of choice, right. Yeah, the paradox of choice.
• 40:49
  The paradox. Of choice.
• 40:50
  Being like when you got so much options, yeah, that it just sort
• 40:54
  of paralyzes you. And then?
• 40:55
  The IT it becomes a problem that you have too much options and
• 40:59
  you're always in this constant state of fixating on what the
• 41:03
  grass is. All is going to be like most
• 41:05
  optimal best. Option Yeah, yeah, you're.
• 41:07
  Constantly fixated on the grass that is on the other side, that
• 41:10
  it renders you in this constant state of unhappiness and
• 41:13
  unsatisfaction because you're always like.
• 41:15
  Like there's always going to be better.
• 41:16
  There's there's something better around, yeah.
• 41:18
  But no. But that's also.
• 41:19
  You have to know that's also how dating apps work, right?
• 41:22
  Because dating apps is a lot similar to like, why you like
• 41:25
  to, like, refresh your Instagram feed.
• 41:28
  It's working on the same like, you know, design like the
• 41:31
  dopamine. Yeah.
• 41:32
  The design tech principles. Where like FOMO is deeply
• 41:35
  ingrained into the way that it works, right?
• 41:37
  Where like even like, Oh yeah, this is good, this is fun.
• 41:39
  But what if, what if? Yeah, yeah, I mean, like that's
• 41:43
  a logic by doom scrolling. Like we're like, oh, I'm on like
• 41:45
  my 47th reel and I'm depressed now, but maybe if I swipe like
• 41:49
  once or two more time, I'll find something that actually makes me
• 41:51
  happy. And then you're up at 2:00 AM.
• 41:53
  But that's like the entire principle.
• 41:55
  And that's also like we also have to like address that.
• 41:57
  Like this is how the dating apps make money.
• 42:00
  You know, they're all. If you if you find their the
• 42:02
  true love of your life and you leave the app, that's money
• 42:05
  gone. Yeah, that's money gone.
• 42:06
  Yeah, And that's why I always. That's why I tell people like
• 42:09
  sure, like I found my wife on a dating app, but don't expect
• 42:13
  that to happen to you because that was one that was six years
• 42:16
  ago. And also the apps.
• 42:19
  As most. Big tech apps and services, do
• 42:24
  they get substantially worse over time?
• 42:27
  Yeah, right. The apps work When they first
• 42:30
  started out. People got married on Tinder.
• 42:31
  People got married on Bumble when it first started out.
• 42:34
  Yeah, like all the wonderful stories.
• 42:36
  Yeah, better back then. But as they continue to have
• 42:40
  that incentive to grow bigger, have more users, they're going
• 42:44
  to take more revenue as well. They're going to.
• 42:47
  Implement more scummy ways to find revenue and retain users.
• 42:51
  That's why it's worse and worse as the time goes on.
• 42:53
  There's a specific term for that.
• 42:54
  You know it's called and shitification of technology.
• 42:56
  I shit you're not. It is an actual shitification.
• 42:59
  Shitification. I guess.
• 43:01
  Something guy that wrote the wrote a whole book about that,
• 43:04
  right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 43:05
  Please put that up and. Send it to me.
• 43:07
  You guys do something? Yeah, I was gonna say.
• 43:10
  Also, with these apps, they're now inheriting a new generation.
• 43:14
  That's interesting. They're.
• 43:14
  Inheriting a new. Generation, whereby every
• 43:18
  generation we have our own cultural because a generation
• 43:21
  has its own culture. Every generation has its own
• 43:24
  cultural paradigm when it comes to, you know, relationships,
• 43:30
  marriage, you know what, whatever.
• 43:33
  So because they're also inheriting a new generation,
• 43:37
  there is that shift in values, there is that shift in Outlook
• 43:42
  as well. And and not only that.
• 43:44
  So the caveat that we got to add when we talk about dating apps
• 43:47
  is how old are you? If you're still on dating apps.
• 43:50
  Like that my question is how old are you?
• 43:52
  Because I. I.
• 43:53
  Wonder if we can look up data on this, on the predominant age of
• 44:02
  the, the, the, the age range. Yeah, yeah, the the age range of
• 44:05
  the, the user base. Yeah, the user.
• 44:08
  Base, yeah. What is the predominant age
• 44:10
  range of the the user base on Tinder, on Bumble?
• 44:15
  Because I have a hunch that so we're all here, we're all 97,
• 44:20
  right? So we're all 2897. 97 Gang.
• 44:24
  And pushing, pushing 30. Pushing 30 so.
• 44:29
  Like I'm turning 20. We're all turning 29.
• 44:31
  Yeah, listen. If if you're.
• 44:34
  If you're pushing 30 or 29, you know, going 3030, going 31 and,
• 44:39
  and you're on Tinder or Bumble and most people there are like
• 44:43
  what let's, let's 23. 21 I I would say most.
• 44:48
  Of their user base like they're very popular most college right
• 44:51
  because that's also when we were on yeah yeah yeah so it's like.
• 44:53
  18 to 20. 318 to 20. Four.
• 44:57
  Yeah, Yeah. At best. 25 it's.
• 44:59
  Like please use the. Age filter exists for a reason.
• 45:03
  Yeah, that too. Yeah.
• 45:05
  No, but. It's but it's also then it's a
• 45:08
  kind of you're, you're wasting your time, you're wasting your
• 45:10
  energy in these spaces where it's like predominantly people
• 45:13
  that you know, age groups are so far from you that you don't even
• 45:16
  have anything in common and you're not aligned in your, your
• 45:19
  life vision. So their prefrontal cortex.
• 45:21
  Hasn't developed yet. Yeah, yes, fact.
• 45:23
  Your prefrontal. Cortex finishes developing
• 45:25
  anywhere between the ages of 25 to 30.
• 45:28
  There you go. Later, if you're neurodivergent.
• 45:31
  Yeah, well, there you go. Ours is.
• 45:36
  Oh, my goodness, yeah. I don't know what you.
• 45:39
  Guys talking about I'm I'm all there I don't know I've.
• 45:42
  Seen you do some questionable. Shit, I got to be honest.
• 45:44
  You know I have I. Have evidence in my phone?
• 45:47
  No. No, actually getting back to the
• 45:50
  age thing. The really, the really kind of
• 45:53
  creepy thing about that is that there are still people like in
• 45:55
  their 30s or in their, you know, late 20s, early 30s, they're
• 45:58
  still looking for like teenagers today.
• 46:01
  And that's, that's that that itself is a massive problem too,
• 46:04
  especially in this country. Listen, anything above 18 is
• 46:08
  technically legal, but it is weird.
• 46:11
  Hold on. See, this is the this is the
• 46:12
  limitations with arguing legality because the legal agent
• 46:16
  Indonesia is not not 18, it's not it's not 18.
• 46:18
  What is it 19? Oh shit.
• 46:20
  You. Don't want?
• 46:22
  South Korea, What is it 17? Shit, I.
• 46:24
  Have. AI have a formula.
• 46:25
  For that, actually, I have a formula.
• 46:27
  I Oh God. Oh God.
• 46:30
  I have a formula. I have a.
• 46:32
  Formula to. Calculate exactly the the
• 46:35
  youngest age of a person you can date before it gets too weird.
• 46:39
  OK, go on. And it's.
• 46:40
  And it's your. Age Yeah, divided by 2 + 7 my
• 46:45
  age divided by. 2 + 7 so let's say you.
• 46:47
  Were 28 right now? Yeah. 28 divided by 2/14/14 plus
• 46:51
  7/21/21. Right, so 21 is the youngest age
• 46:55
  you can date. Lower than that even though it's
• 46:57
  legal or whatever. It's weird, but why?
• 47:00
  7 and. I just found it somewhere.
• 47:03
  And it works and it works. To be honest, I think it's even.
• 47:06
  Even I think we need to tune. That a little bit, but OK,
• 47:08
  that's fair because like even even even really.
• 47:10
  Need to be tuned even. Me imagining.
• 47:12
  Somebody who's 28 or 29 dating somebody who's 21 is a little
• 47:15
  bit like, is that too big? Is that too big in an age gap?
• 47:17
  Because like this guy's like, like, let's say one of them is
• 47:20
  28. They've had like 5 or 6 years of
• 47:22
  experience in the real world, while the other person is 21 and
• 47:25
  they're still in school. And it's like, I mean, come on.
• 47:28
  Yeah, there's a lot of stuff that's.
• 47:30
  Yeah, you know, and. And grooming is and for the
• 47:33
  grooming is also really normalized in this country,
• 47:35
  which I don't really like. I mean, it's the fact.
• 47:37
  That in a lot of cultures like Indonesia, grooming is the
• 47:42
  standardized people's standardized understanding of
• 47:45
  how a relationship between a heterosexual couple should be.
• 47:49
  Like have you seen? The.
• 47:51
  The lady who's 19 years old and is an influencer based on just
• 47:56
  like, I'm married at 19 and then the guy's like 29 or something.
• 48:00
  Gosh. Yes, it is a.
• 48:02
  Very normalized thing. Yeah, it is.
• 48:04
  Which? She made it.
• 48:05
  Her personality, it's yeah, she it's.
• 48:08
  Her personality I got married at 19, I married at 19, right?
• 48:11
  So this. Guy who's like.
• 48:11
  What, 29 years? He's like definitely like 1.
• 48:14
  100% the guy groomed her. Oh God yeah.
• 48:17
  And it's also kind of like I hate.
• 48:18
  This and. She.
• 48:21
  She didn't continue her high school or whatever because of
• 48:24
  that. Fuck off.
• 48:25
  Oh God. Yeah.
• 48:27
  And it's like it's something to brag about.
• 48:29
  And it's like, you pause now pause all of this.
• 48:33
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 48:33
  No, Hold the. Fuck up.
• 48:35
  No, I wanna, I wanted to say something to to I guess counter
• 48:39
  your formula. Sure, my mathematically formula
• 48:44
  is gonna be counter right? Fuck shit no.
• 48:49
  The way that I thought about it, I've given this quite a fair
• 48:52
  thought. Okay, it's actually so legal age
• 48:56
  again, there's limitations with legal age because again in
• 48:58
  Indonesia, 19, in the United States, 18, in South Korea, 17,
• 49:01
  right? So it's like it's very.
• 49:02
  You. Can't really hold on to that
• 49:04
  concretely. I think what's more concrete,
• 49:06
  however, are two things, education and life stage.
• 49:10
  So what do I so but also factoring in, of course,
• 49:13
  legality. Of course, you have to abide by
• 49:15
  the law follow, you know, the the, the age of consent, the.
• 49:19
  Age of the age. Of consent the legal age in in
• 49:22
  the region that you are situated in right but of course like as
• 49:28
  long as you meet OK yeah legal yeah above legal whatever, where
• 49:31
  wherever you are here in Indonesia 19 so above 19
• 49:34
  education and so let's talk about education education
• 49:38
  meaning so if you're OK you're above 1919 you already graduated
• 49:43
  high school sure right so that so that means the education that
• 49:46
  is pertained here is college yeah yeah right which.
• 49:50
  And and. Listen, this one might be up for
• 49:52
  debate, but I will die on the hill that especially in this
• 49:55
  modern economic, social climate, you need to have a bachelor's, a
• 50:00
  bare minimum bachelor's degree. There's no longer an option for
• 50:03
  you to, but hi all that you can be like Bill Gates who dropped
• 50:08
  out of college and then make it in life.
• 50:10
  You know that. Is no.
• 50:11
  Longer, that is. No.
• 50:12
  Longer feasible and the chances of that are not even one in a
• 50:15
  million. It's probably one in like a
• 50:16
  trillion now, right? So #1 education.
• 50:20
  So have you graduated college? Have you secured your education?
• 50:24
  And I'm talking, and this is gender neutral, I'm not just
• 50:26
  talking about women, I'm talking about both men and women, girls
• 50:29
  and boys. Have you had your college
• 50:30
  education yet? And then #2.
• 50:33
  So let's say you. Come across A at what age do you
• 50:37
  graduate college? Let's say like 20-4?
• 50:38
  Yeah, 2324. Yeah, 24.
• 50:41
  Let's say you are, let's say you are a 35 year old man, right?
• 50:45
  Let's say you are a 35 year old man.
• 50:47
  You are looking at this 24 year old woman who has just very
• 50:50
  recently graduated college and you're looking at her as a
• 50:54
  prospect, as prospective partner, right?
• 50:57
  The second thing that's taking into consideration is live
• 50:59
  stage, right? Because here's.
• 51:02
  The thing? I acknowledge that there are
• 51:04
  people for various reasons, like be it the tribulations of life
• 51:08
  or just, you know, like or their personality.
• 51:10
  They at 24, you're living a lifestyle of a 35 year old.
• 51:17
  You get what I mean in terms of career, in terms of social.
• 51:20
  Some people also develop mature a lot earlier than others,
• 51:25
  right? Both men and women, right I've
• 51:27
  met. I've met 21.
• 51:29
  Year old men that have the knowledge and the experience and
• 51:33
  the soul in the mid life crisis. Like of of a of a. 35 year old
• 51:37
  man. Yeah, right.
• 51:38
  Like some people are just built like that, right, Right.
• 51:41
  But I'm looking at Kim. Some people are.
• 51:46
  Just built like that, yeah. Yeah, right.
• 51:49
  So where? Where was I live?
• 51:52
  Stage right, Yeah. So this 24 year old she.
• 51:54
  Just graduated college, so it's like, OK, then the next question
• 51:57
  is do we, are we even in the are we even in the same life stage?
• 52:02
  Are we, do we even share enough of the same lifestyle in order
• 52:06
  for there to even be not just not, not just similarities
• 52:11
  whereby you can have a fruitful relationship because of course,
• 52:13
  like having mutual values, mutual interest, of course it's
• 52:17
  important and it helps, but it's also you have mutual grounding,
• 52:20
  you have mutual footing, you have mutual autonomy, Right.
• 52:23
  Yeah. Yeah, right.
• 52:25
  And and. These two things, education,
• 52:29
  what I said just now, what was it?
• 52:30
  Life. Life.
• 52:32
  Stage life, stage. Which usually entails career,
• 52:36
  education and career that solidifies, your autonomy that
• 52:40
  solidifies. Your.
• 52:41
  Grounding your footing in a relationship, right, Because you
• 52:44
  can't. Because here's the thing.
• 52:46
  Strip age out of this equation. Let's say it's a 37 year old
• 52:53
  woman with a 32 year old man. Yeah, sure.
• 52:58
  OK Yeah. With a 32 year old man but this
• 53:02
  32 year old man has never had an education let's say yeah has
• 53:05
  never had an education and he doesn't have a source of income
• 53:08
  OK, right the. Power.
• 53:10
  Imbalance is too wide to be ignored.
• 53:14
  It's not just about. The age.
• 53:15
  It's not just about the age. But it's about like, how much
• 53:17
  power do you have, how much leverage, and how much autonomy
• 53:20
  do you have in a relationship you want to minimize?
• 53:22
  The power imbalance as much as possible you wanna reduce.
• 53:25
  The margin, the potential margin for abuse, Yeah, right.
• 53:30
  For what's the other word, abuse and taking advantage of.
• 53:35
  Yeah, yeah, you wanna have? Equal grounds between partners,
• 53:37
  basically. Exactly, Yeah.
• 53:39
  So I would say, you know, age number, there is some truth to
• 53:44
  how at some point age does become a number, right?
• 53:47
  Age is just a number. At some point age does pass the
• 53:49
  legal age, it just becomes a number.
• 53:51
  Right age is not the only. Age doesn't really matter.
• 53:56
  And by and large, it's a. Social contract when you, it's a
• 53:58
  very nuanced. It's very it's.
• 54:00
  An intersectional. Conversation right now because
• 54:02
  it's like. You know, yeah, exactly.
• 54:05
  Yeah. People can, People are.
• 54:06
  Very easily they they easily label like oh age gap
• 54:10
  relationship get out of your bag, get out.
• 54:12
  Of here, yeah, exactly. But there's so much.
• 54:14
  Nuance to that, there's a lot of.
• 54:16
  Nuance. And I would say that.
• 54:17
  That's as close as a formula I have come up with.
• 54:20
  It would be that first take into account the legal age in which
• 54:23
  you are reciting. But then that is also debatable.
• 54:26
  What if she's from South Korea and I'm from the United States?
• 54:28
  Yeah. I.
• 54:30
  Think. Let's say I think, Yeah, that
• 54:32
  brings me to an. Interesting question as well.
• 54:33
  What? Obviously, we live in Indonesia.
• 54:35
  Where culture is like very, very strong.
• 54:37
  We just talked about this earlier before, before the
• 54:40
  camera, before the. Camera started rolling about.
• 54:42
  How you're Java about that? How?
• 54:46
  I can't believe he just. Outed me like that bro I'm so
• 54:48
  sorry. Go, go, We we can.
• 54:52
  Censor that if you want. He talked about his.
• 54:54
  Ancestry in the first episode. Did he?
• 54:56
  He did. I don't remember that
• 54:57
  Australian. Proceed with your question.
• 54:59
  Oh, sorry, yeah, you're right. No, no, what are your guys
• 55:02
  opinions on like, you know, dating between cultures and like
• 55:04
  finding the finding the not finding the balance, having to
• 55:08
  having to sometimes in some cases balance the pressure that
• 55:13
  you feel from your parents, for example, from your family to
• 55:17
  marry and to date within like a certain culture compared to your
• 55:21
  own kind of feelings of like just wanting to be, you know,
• 55:25
  individualist, individualist that can be with the person that
• 55:28
  you want to be with, regardless of what they're and that's a
• 55:30
  specific culture. Yeah, that's fine.
• 55:32
  So, so sorry, but it's just. And it's especially difficult in
• 55:35
  the backdrop of where we come from.
• 55:37
  Indonesian cultures, we're very collectivistic.
• 55:39
  Exactly. Yeah.
• 55:40
  Yeah, very leaves. Very little room for
• 55:42
  individualism like like my. Like my mom is Sudanese and my
• 55:46
  dad is Java is a like. I would have been freaking.
• 55:51
  Killed, you know, if I was born like 300 years ago, this has
• 55:54
  been like type shit. Like, you know.
• 55:56
  Didn't they have a war for this? Yeah, they had a war.
• 55:59
  They had a war. Yeah, this is fair.
• 56:02
  Yeah, Indian Red Wedding. No the.
• 56:03
  Modern equivalent would be. Like Israeli and the Palestinian
• 56:06
  get together? No, it's actually.
• 56:07
  Crazy is it actually? Bad.
• 56:09
  It was. It was.
• 56:10
  It was. Bad.
• 56:10
  I didn't know it was bad. That's wild.
• 56:12
  They killed. They were killing each other for
• 56:14
  hundreds of years, man. Yeah.
• 56:16
  Like it was insane. Yeah, no, I.
• 56:18
  Still not as someone who grew up in Bandung, I still know a lot
• 56:21
  of people who are Sudanese who were like, yeah, we're cool now.
• 56:23
  But sometimes you guys talking to me who's Japanese or coming
• 56:27
  from Japanese, sometimes you guys make jokes and we're not
• 56:30
  totally cool with that and be like.
• 56:31
  So I think there's still a lot of that tension going on where.
• 56:35
  Yeah, You know, they're like there's jokes where like, Oh
• 56:40
  yeah, Sundar, I just like discounted Jawa and stuff like
• 56:42
  that. I'm like.
• 56:43
  Damn people. Still talk about that.
• 56:45
  They really do. And they're like, they really
• 56:47
  do. Would they Like yeah, they're
• 56:48
  still fucking kidding. I mean, we only just.
• 56:50
  Gained our independence, what, 80 years ago?
• 56:52
  So it's it, it almost makes sense why that that.
• 56:56
  That deal, cultural clash is. Still very fresh.
• 56:57
  Exactly. Oh shit.
• 56:58
  Yeah, you're right there. You.
• 57:00
  Go Yeah, that's a. Really good question.
• 57:02
  Yeah, I mean like. I mean like I.
• 57:06
  I'm I'm Bolognese like culturally and my wife is not
• 57:10
  Bolognese. He is, She's a she's Sinanese
• 57:14
  and then a bit of Minang. And like, there's lots that go
• 57:16
  into that, I guess. I guess, I guess like if she had
• 57:19
  to decide, it'd probably be Sinanese.
• 57:23
  But yet there is a it's difficult to kind of like
• 57:29
  they're still, you want to be like the individual, like I'm
• 57:32
  detached from my family and my wife is detached from her
• 57:36
  family. And if we want to be together,
• 57:38
  we can just be together. Yeah.
• 57:39
  Like there was a time when I thought about thought about it
• 57:42
  like that. And it's like, yeah, it
• 57:44
  shouldn't matter, like what my family thinks.
• 57:47
  And in essence, I do still believe that.
• 57:50
  I think people don't need to be burdened by like what their
• 57:52
  family expectations of them are, but you can't also be blind to
• 57:57
  the fact that it does play a role in yeah, like your.
• 58:01
  Families. Do have to coexist.
• 58:04
  It is going to cause some strife unless you choose to cut them
• 58:07
  off entirely, which is also not ideal because hey, you know
• 58:10
  what? Maybe some people love their
• 58:11
  families, right? Yeah, so wild concept, but like,
• 58:14
  wild, wild. Very.
• 58:16
  It's just. There's a balance that needs to
• 58:19
  be to be to be struck there, right.
• 58:22
  Whereas like you and I think we kind of me and my wife, we're
• 58:26
  kind of like able to find that where it's like, OK, we
• 58:31
  compromise where we can and then we try to appease the families
• 58:35
  where we can also. So it's like finance balance is
• 58:39
  going to be like kind of tricky. But maybe you guys have your own
• 58:43
  experiences with intercultural dating.
• 58:46
  But I feel like you you pretty. Much answered your own question
• 58:49
  that's the word compromise yeah, right.
• 58:52
  Finding a partner that is able number one you're able to openly
• 58:56
  and transparently communicate with one another of like these
• 58:58
  are the expectations that are held of me.
• 59:00
  I would like to know what expectations are held of you by
• 59:04
  your family or by your community.
• 59:06
  Very, very good. Yes, the.
• 59:07
  Communication bit, the community bit, which is which?
• 59:09
  A lot of people are sorely lacking with their partners and
• 59:13
  with each other and with themselves, sometimes not honest
• 59:15
  with themselves. Yeah.
• 59:16
  Yeah, that's right. Like you gotta.
• 59:19
  This is what's expected. I had that talk with my my wife
• 59:22
  before we got super serious. Yeah.
• 59:24
  And it actually had to do with converting relative.
• 59:28
  Yeah. Converting.
• 59:29
  You're Hindu. I'm Hindu.
• 59:30
  And my wife is Hindu too now, but she was raised Muslim.
• 59:36
  Yeah, and that's. Like, and, and that's kind of
• 59:42
  like the reason my my first long term relationship fell apart,
• 59:45
  which is like, I refuse to acknowledge that that can be a
• 59:48
  factor. Yeah.
• 59:49
  And I choose instead to just hide that fact and bury it and
• 59:55
  choose to deal with it another day.
• 59:56
  Yes, just slip it under the rug where it's like now look.
• 1:00:02
  This is probably what my family is expecting of me.
• 1:00:05
  And so, like, this is what I'm asking of you.
• 1:00:08
  And if you're not OK with it, that's OK.
• 1:00:11
  But I'm not going to force you to do something you don't want
• 1:00:14
  to do. Exactly.
• 1:00:15
  Yeah. But like, if this is going to be
• 1:00:17
  something long term, something stable like this is what's gonna
• 1:00:22
  happen. Yeah.
• 1:00:23
  But like, I don't, I, I do my best to just, like, never, like
• 1:00:30
  force onto her something that she doesn't want to do, you
• 1:00:33
  know, because like a lot of the times, Indonesia is very
• 1:00:35
  patriarchal and it's like Swami. Yeah.
• 1:00:39
  Like. Swami.
• 1:00:42
  In like you gotta teach her how to like do this and that in like
• 1:00:45
  your religion and whatever. And like I I don't necessarily I
• 1:00:48
  don't unless she asked me. Yeah, of course I.
• 1:00:51
  Want to? I want to.
• 1:00:52
  Learn this and that like, Oh yeah, sure.
• 1:00:54
  I'll, I'll, I'll tell you what I know.
• 1:00:56
  But like, otherwise, no, we can still live our lives in peace.
• 1:01:00
  And then like, yeah, do our best for our families and our
• 1:01:03
  respective cultures. But the communication thing is
• 1:01:06
  the biggest thing. Like, yeah, ask, ask your
• 1:01:09
  partner, ask yourself like what are what do you, what can you
• 1:01:12
  compromise? What can you compromise on?
• 1:01:13
  And can you find that middle ground?
• 1:01:15
  Yeah, and and do. All of and time of communication
• 1:01:17
  is also important. Do that before y'all get
• 1:01:20
  serious. Yeah, do that, y'all do.
• 1:01:23
  That during the talking seeing stage like not sure.
• 1:01:26
  But at the same. Time like look like the talking
• 1:01:28
  seeing stage like it's it's very.
• 1:01:32
  It's it's. Very not.
• 1:01:34
  What's the word dynamic? No, no.
• 1:01:36
  Not dynamic. Ambiguous.
• 1:01:38
  Ambiguous. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:39
  Hold on. There's another word.
• 1:01:40
  I'm precarious. It's a very yeah.
• 1:01:42
  Precarious stage because. You do that too early on, You
• 1:01:46
  you scare them away, that's true.
• 1:01:47
  That's my first date so by. The way I want to get married.
• 1:01:51
  Are you OK? I'm OK with converting.
• 1:01:53
  You have no idea how. Often that happens here though.
• 1:01:57
  But people here, they don't. Bullshit.
• 1:01:59
  Yeah, they don't. Bullshit.
• 1:02:00
  I've seen. It on.
• 1:02:01
  Some people's like. Straight up like Bumble
• 1:02:02
  profiles. Being like, I want marriage, I
• 1:02:04
  want kids and be like, but you know, wow.
• 1:02:07
  Yeah. Can we clap?
• 1:02:08
  I respect that. I respect that.
• 1:02:10
  No. No, no, because.
• 1:02:11
  Listen like I'm. Like.
• 1:02:12
  That too. Listen, I was I was like that
• 1:02:14
  back when I was in my whore face, like with the hook up,
• 1:02:16
  like I I not, I can't say that explicitly on my profile without
• 1:02:20
  getting like my profile banned, But then like immediately first
• 1:02:22
  conversation, I'm like, I'm here to fuck.
• 1:02:25
  I'm here to. Fuck.
• 1:02:26
  So and dude, you must have gone so.
• 1:02:28
  Many hits. Because that I feel like.
• 1:02:31
  For a lot of men on dating apps, that's like their dream profile
• 1:02:34
  I'm I guess like. Girl.
• 1:02:37
  That's no emotional. Labor.
• 1:02:39
  Involved. Oh my God.
• 1:02:46
  That's not my personal. Belief, yeah.
• 1:02:50
  Yes. No, because I, I'm a very
• 1:02:57
  direct, straightforward person. Yeah.
• 1:02:58
  And so I really appreciate that. But at the same time, I, I, I'm
• 1:03:01
  not artistic enough where I like, don't know how to read the
• 1:03:04
  room. Like, yeah, I can't first date.
• 1:03:05
  I'm like, how many kids do you want?
• 1:03:07
  Yeah. And also that kind of like.
• 1:03:10
  Bluntness goes against what we are taught as the Indonesian
• 1:03:14
  culture where it's like you gotta you gotta be how to snow
• 1:03:17
  the like you gotta be like saddle with everything.
• 1:03:20
  Don't like explicitly say the things that you want.
• 1:03:22
  Don't communicate. Basically incredibly Java
• 1:03:24
  centric. Because let me tell you
• 1:03:25
  something and you know this. Don't.
• 1:03:28
  Play like that? No, no.
• 1:03:30
  Don't. Play like that, but that's like.
• 1:03:34
  There's this time where like I, I had, I had been like, because
• 1:03:37
  I was born in Kanbaru. I was born in like a real and
• 1:03:40
  then I, but I moved to Bandung for like like 8 years, something
• 1:03:44
  like that. And then like I had to move
• 1:03:46
  back. And then I had been, I hadn't
• 1:03:48
  been to Kanbaru in the longest time ever.
• 1:03:50
  Like I don't know, like 3 to like 4 years.
• 1:03:52
  The first thing that happened when I landed at the airport.
• 1:03:55
  No shit. I just.
• 1:03:57
  And then, like, you know, those people who like, like the people
• 1:04:00
  who, like, push the trolleys at, like, you know something,
• 1:04:03
  They're like, I forgot what the word is for them.
• 1:04:05
  Airport waiters. Yeah.
• 1:04:07
  Literally someone getting into a screaming match with the Porter.
• 1:04:13
  That's the first thing I experienced when I landed the
• 1:04:15
  target. I'm back.
• 1:04:18
  The. Heat, the humidity, the spicy
• 1:04:20
  food and the, the people screaming match happening in
• 1:04:24
  literally in the, the, the, the airport, like, you know, luggage
• 1:04:29
  pick up and be like, ah, yes, I'm home.
• 1:04:31
  Yeah. Anyways, you were gonna say
• 1:04:32
  something. Sorry, no, I was just gonna.
• 1:04:34
  Say that's very I mean that that cultural tone is set by the
• 1:04:37
  Javanese, I feel, because they're the majority, because
• 1:04:39
  that's true. Like, yeah.
• 1:04:41
  Listen, I've been with the Mormon.
• 1:04:43
  They're. Very.
• 1:04:44
  Straightforward. And I love that shit.
• 1:04:45
  I'm like, yeah, tell me what you want.
• 1:04:47
  I'll tell you what I want. Equal, equal.
• 1:04:50
  And I love their accents. Huh.
• 1:04:51
  I love their accent, Oh my gosh. And it's no wonder they're
• 1:04:54
  amazing singers, right? Even the way that they talk is
• 1:04:56
  very melodic. Love it.
• 1:04:58
  Shout out to all you team Moores.
• 1:05:00
  Yeah, shout out to Moore. Eastern Indonesians, eastern
• 1:05:04
  Indonesian, you're there you go. But yeah.
• 1:05:07
  And. What was he talking about?
• 1:05:09
  Great food too. Like the cultural.
• 1:05:10
  Cultural. Yeah.
• 1:05:12
  The bloodness of it? Well, no.
• 1:05:13
  No, I like the. Time of communication, right,
• 1:05:15
  Because you don't want to be too early.
• 1:05:18
  You don't want me too early, but but OK, as long as you're in the
• 1:05:22
  talking seeing stage and you haven't made anything like
• 1:05:24
  officially official, then you're safe.
• 1:05:27
  Like you can go as long as long as until you're ready, but have
• 1:05:29
  it before you make it official. Yeah, make it.
• 1:05:32
  Before you commit. Make sure y'all are.
• 1:05:34
  On the same page, at least before you even like think
• 1:05:36
  about, think about that. Because otherwise, what even is
• 1:05:39
  the point exactly? You know, there you go.
• 1:05:41
  Just have like what? Just ask like what kind of
• 1:05:43
  relationship do you want out of this right.
• 1:05:45
  You know, it was the funny. It's really simple I.
• 1:05:48
  Feel like, do you want kids? Yeah, No, no.
• 1:05:51
  Here's the thing though. No.
• 1:05:52
  Here's the thing, though. There's a surprising amount of
• 1:05:56
  people out there who don't enter like, you know, looking into
• 1:05:59
  relationships with that kind of, like, knowledge.
• 1:06:01
  That's true. Yeah, let's be real, they're
• 1:06:03
  very. Aloof like they they're very
• 1:06:05
  passive in it too, like they don't take any active agency of
• 1:06:08
  of like hey, like I want to commit to this relationship I
• 1:06:10
  want to go somewhere with this They just kind of like, hey, go
• 1:06:12
  with the flow get to yeah and see what.
• 1:06:14
  Happens. Let's be honest and I think
• 1:06:16
  this. Goes back slightly to like the
• 1:06:17
  conversations we're having earlier where where we're like,
• 1:06:20
  yeah, I feel like, you know, men want to be with women, but men
• 1:06:23
  don't really like women. It goes back, we're circling
• 1:06:26
  back to that conversation a lot. For a lot of people, they just,
• 1:06:30
  they don't know what the relationship is for.
• 1:06:32
  They just know that like, I've hit a certain age that's true
• 1:06:36
  partners right now. And so it's almost like, oh, I'm
• 1:06:41
  at the checkpoint in life where I feel like I should have a
• 1:06:44
  partner. And the fact that I don't makes
• 1:06:46
  me anxious or sometimes even worse, makes me like, socially
• 1:06:49
  outcast at all. Like, yeah, oh, you're like 35
• 1:06:52
  and you're unmarried. Like, what's wrong with you,
• 1:06:54
  girl? And they're being like, woo,
• 1:06:55
  right? They see it as a means to an.
• 1:06:57
  End, as opposed to an end in it's own right, as a way of
• 1:06:59
  like, hey, you're going to spend, you're going to spend
• 1:07:01
  your entire life with this person.
• 1:07:03
  So you know, there you go. You don't want to fuck it.
• 1:07:06
  Up because especially like. If we're just.
• 1:07:09
  Speaking about. Indonesian confining this
• 1:07:10
  conversation to Indonesian culture we.
• 1:07:12
  We. As a culture, we hyper
• 1:07:15
  romanticize romance. Yeah, it's true.
• 1:07:18
  Yeah. It's true romanticize romance.
• 1:07:19
  It's so true. How?
• 1:07:20
  Do you mean? That culture.
• 1:07:21
  We. Put romantic life, having a love
• 1:07:25
  life up on such a pedestal of like this is what everything
• 1:07:29
  that we do needs to amount to this.
• 1:07:32
  Everything that we do, our education, our career, making
• 1:07:35
  money, buying a house, it all needs to lead to marriage.
• 1:07:39
  Yeah. Yeah, like have you seen or?
• 1:07:41
  Like, I'm pretty sure you're familiar with like our movie
• 1:07:44
  industry, right? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:46
  Don't doesn't it know you that like, oh, that's what like what?
• 1:07:48
  That's what like ROM coms or like or like romantic movies are
• 1:07:51
  like in our culture compared to like I'm not even just compared
• 1:07:54
  to other like western culture, but like other like like modern
• 1:07:57
  takes on. Yeah, other Southeast Asian.
• 1:07:59
  Countries like Taiwanese films, like even they have like a
• 1:08:03
  different conception for like what romance is like.
• 1:08:06
  Indonesia, I feel like has a very, very like particular
• 1:08:08
  flavour of like, shut the fuck up with your shirt right now.
• 1:08:10
  Like, see, it's like I've seen that throne.
• 1:08:12
  Shit, my one car. Why?
• 1:08:14
  Yeah, no, I feel like. I have a very like, very sad.
• 1:08:17
  Idyllic, you know. Idealistic image or like what
• 1:08:20
  romance should be like. The only country that is
• 1:08:22
  realistic. No, no.
• 1:08:24
  I was gonna say, actually, no, I think there's a lot of countries
• 1:08:26
  out there that are more realistic, but I was gonna say
• 1:08:28
  the only other country that I can think of that is just as
• 1:08:31
  delusional as we are in romance. And it's going to be very
• 1:08:35
  telling because that movie industry is very, very
• 1:08:37
  successful here in Indonesia. It's great.
• 1:08:39
  Oh yeah, that's true. You're right.
• 1:08:41
  Why do you think K drama? Is like one of the most popular
• 1:08:44
  things Indonesia because I think it sells to you.
• 1:08:46
  Like the really idyllic image of like, oh.
• 1:08:49
  Helpless. Damsel in distressed woman it.
• 1:08:52
  Validates your delusion yeah. And it really with with, you
• 1:08:56
  know, the Korean movie entertainment industry,
• 1:08:59
  Indonesian entertainment industry, Indian entertainment
• 1:09:02
  industry. Yeah, our Indonesian, the
• 1:09:05
  precursor to Indonesian entertainment industry is Indian
• 1:09:08
  entertainment industry, right? Because like for context, here
• 1:09:11
  in Indonesia, pretty much like our entertainment industry is
• 1:09:14
  owned by the Indians, so. They set the tone.
• 1:09:17
  Yeah, they set the tone. It, it validates your delusion.
• 1:09:21
  And not only that, it really it, it, it, it validates your
• 1:09:28
  delusion and it what's the, what's the word I'm, what's the
• 1:09:33
  vocab? Where am I blanking out here?
• 1:09:35
  But it it plays into the typical stereotypes and norms of like,
• 1:09:42
  oh, this is what a heterosexual relationship should be, No.
• 1:09:44
  It's so true. Yeah, it really validates that
• 1:09:49
  and I think. There's this, there's a movie
• 1:09:51
  that I watched recently which I absolutely adored.
• 1:09:55
  Yeah. And it talks about this exact
• 1:09:57
  thing. Not exactly, but like the thing
• 1:10:00
  with Indonesian romance movies and also like Korean is they
• 1:10:07
  they always frame relationships, marriages or otherwise, as
• 1:10:13
  something that's always going to be a big grand gesture.
• 1:10:17
  It's always going to be bombastic.
• 1:10:18
  It's always going to be fireworks in your life.
• 1:10:20
  It strips away the mundanity of day-to-day relationships.
• 1:10:25
  And as someone who's been married not for very long, I
• 1:10:30
  mean, it's been, it's, I mean, I've all I if you, if you think
• 1:10:35
  about married to like, at least like, oh, never mind, it's been
• 1:10:38
  5. Years but like.
• 1:10:39
  There's only four. Shit.
• 1:10:40
  Sorry. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:41
  But like. Married for.
• 1:10:43
  A year plus, but we've lived together for longer than that.
• 1:10:46
  And what you need in a stable, long term relationship is being,
• 1:10:55
  being like loving your partner during the times of mundaneness
• 1:11:01
  as well. Yeah, 100%.
• 1:11:02
  Like doing the mundane stuff in life, like washing the dishes,
• 1:11:07
  the unromantic side of all of it.
• 1:11:09
  Yeah. What?
• 1:11:10
  Do you like when? It's like a Saturday in the
• 1:11:11
  morning. You're just.
• 1:11:12
  Like sloughing it off. Right.
• 1:11:14
  Yeah, all the. Things that's that's going to
• 1:11:16
  comprise maybe like 80% of your life.
• 1:11:19
  If you love spending all that mundane shit with your partner,
• 1:11:25
  that's going to be a good relationship.
• 1:11:26
  That's going to be a good foundation.
• 1:11:28
  And by the way, the movie that I watched was Eternity, dude,
• 1:11:31
  Yeah. God damn I've been wanting to
• 1:11:33
  watch that. Movie.
• 1:11:33
  A really good movie you. Recommended it to me.
• 1:11:35
  Spoil it to me. I didn't respond to your
• 1:11:37
  message. I do apologize for that.
• 1:11:38
  You did watch it? I didn't watch it.
• 1:11:39
  I watched it before. OK.
• 1:11:41
  Bro have you watched it? No SO.
• 1:11:43
  Basically. The premise of the movie is that
• 1:11:45
  it's starring Elizabeth Olsen and also Miles Taylor and Callum
• 1:11:50
  Turner. Yep.
• 1:11:50
  But the premise is that this old, this woman dies and in the
• 1:11:56
  afterlife she is have She is faced with a choice of spending
• 1:12:02
  eternity of her afterlife with the husband that she spent 60
• 1:12:06
  plus years with or the love of her life, who she her first
• 1:12:10
  husband, who she met before the the long term husband who died
• 1:12:15
  in a war. But he has to like kind of like
• 1:12:19
  choose between that damn and and it.
• 1:12:22
  And it's really compelling. Yeah.
• 1:12:23
  But it also shows like, without without spoiling, like what?
• 1:12:29
  What kind of love lasts the longest?
• 1:12:33
  Yeah, I guess love is so. Much more than.
• 1:12:35
  Romance. Love is hard work, yeah.
• 1:12:38
  Love is boredom. Sometimes.
• 1:12:39
  Love is boredom. Love is boredom.
• 1:12:41
  And love is. Sacrifice.
• 1:12:42
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:12:43
  Yeah, love is. Just love is continuous effort.
• 1:12:47
  Yeah, so true love is a lot. More laborious in reality
• 1:12:52
  compared to what so much of these movies and TV shows
• 1:12:56
  portray love is. So.
• 1:12:58
  True, it's so much worth it's. Work you.
• 1:13:00
  Gotta put in, you gotta want to put in the work every day,
• 1:13:04
  choosing every day to be with this person and choosing to make
• 1:13:07
  it good. Yeah, yeah, every day.
• 1:13:08
  That's true. And and that's a lot of work.
• 1:13:10
  Sometimes you don't, you don't want it like, like, sometimes
• 1:13:13
  you're tired or like you're angry or frustrated, like and
• 1:13:15
  like. You're kind of.
• 1:13:16
  Like, fuck this, you know, like, you can't do that.
• 1:13:19
  Yeah. And to be able to have that kind
• 1:13:20
  of long term relationship, it's not just about the grand
• 1:13:22
  gestures. It's about choosing that person
• 1:13:25
  even like in those, like, shittiest times.
• 1:13:27
  Yeah, especially in. Those shittiest times,
• 1:13:28
  especially. Especially in those shittiest
• 1:13:29
  times. Especially in those.
• 1:13:30
  Shittiest. Times, especially in shitty.
• 1:13:32
  Times. Yeah, for sure.
• 1:13:33
  Yeah. I highly recommend.
• 1:13:34
  Watching the movies honestly put it up.
• 1:13:36
  On here and I'll. Definitely watch 824 as well.
• 1:13:38
  So you know it's good. You know it's good.
• 1:13:40
  I didn't know it was. 8/24, it was 824.
• 1:13:42
  Yeah. Oh.
• 1:13:43
  Nice, nice. Really, really good.
• 1:13:45
  Yeah, wow. A.
• 1:13:46
  Cultural. On the topic of what cultural
• 1:13:50
  differences, cultural differences are cultural
• 1:13:52
  intercultural. Relations.
• 1:13:54
  I mean, have y'all ever? Been in in?
• 1:13:58
  Have y'all ever been in intercultural relationships?
• 1:14:00
  That's with a non Indonesian, non Indonesian.
• 1:14:03
  Non Indonesian, no. Nothing.
• 1:14:06
  Is your wife Indonesian? My wife is an.
• 1:14:08
  Indonesian. Yeah, I mean.
• 1:14:10
  I don't think this doesn't count, but like in middle
• 1:14:13
  school, high school, that doesn't count, Yeah.
• 1:14:15
  OK, no, it doesn't count. It's just it's.
• 1:14:17
  Mixed it's. That's.
• 1:14:17
  Probably nothing serious. OK, serious.
• 1:14:20
  OK. Interesting.
• 1:14:21
  You no. OK, that means I'm the only.
• 1:14:23
  One talk about it all three of my ex boyfriends.
• 1:14:27
  The first one's white Eastern European, second one's Mexican
• 1:14:32
  from Texas. And then?
• 1:14:35
  Third one's from India, so you perked.
• 1:14:38
  Up Texan boy. Yeah, I used.
• 1:14:40
  To live in Texas, I. Used to live.
• 1:14:41
  In Texas. Yeah.
• 1:14:42
  Houston. Where?
• 1:14:43
  Where? Where?
• 1:14:43
  Houston. Houston.
• 1:14:44
  Yeah, he's from Dallas. Oh no.
• 1:14:46
  Oh Dallas sucks. I'm going to say that.
• 1:14:50
  Cowboys How? Do do you?
• 1:14:51
  Are you in a? Do you are you still in a
• 1:14:53
  friendly relationship? We have we've.
• 1:14:56
  We're amicable, yes, OK. Me.
• 1:14:59
  And the actually no hold on because I was going to say.
• 1:15:02
  Dallas. Forward.
• 1:15:05
  Yeah, the Mexican. Was the only one that I still
• 1:15:06
  like. We keep like civil relationships
• 1:15:09
  with. OK, then Dallas.
• 1:15:11
  Isn't so bad, no. No, you.
• 1:15:13
  Can say it listen. We'll catch some.
• 1:15:15
  Flash, you know, go, go, Mavs. I'm not.
• 1:15:18
  Go Mavs but you. The.
• 1:15:20
  Cowboys, yeah, but the first and the third one, like, yeah, we've
• 1:15:23
  lost contact, OK right, Yeah. Talk.
• 1:15:24
  To us about the. Inter.
• 1:15:26
  Well, yeah, what's that? Inter.
• 1:15:27
  The dynamic Intercontinental. The Intercontinental.
• 1:15:31
  The intercontinentality of my Yeah, yeah, really.
• 1:15:34
  My really. I mean, I mean, there's really
• 1:15:37
  not. Because here's the thing, yes,
• 1:15:41
  of course, like there is commonality in like the struggle
• 1:15:44
  of have of, you know, collectivistic family values,
• 1:15:47
  familial familial piety, like coming from Indonesian
• 1:15:50
  backgrounds, which obviously I, no matter how whitewashed I am,
• 1:15:53
  like I still at the end of the day, I'm still Indonesian, you
• 1:15:56
  know, But that being said, like every Indonesian family operates
• 1:15:59
  differently. Like some families hold on to,
• 1:16:01
  for example, some families like they really prioritize religion,
• 1:16:04
  right? Like they can be from, I have a
• 1:16:06
  lot of friends that are like this.
• 1:16:07
  Like they can be from whatever background, but they need to be
• 1:16:12
  Christian. Yeah, right.
• 1:16:14
  And. Then with other families, it's
• 1:16:16
  like a lot more complicated. It's like the religion and like
• 1:16:20
  it has to be, has to be a specifically a Chino Christian,
• 1:16:23
  the race. And the race.
• 1:16:25
  Like. A lot of.
• 1:16:25
  Families have different factors that they that they prioritize.
• 1:16:32
  I guess if we're talking about me personally now, my mom's very
• 1:16:36
  pragmatic. I mean like I feel like y'all
• 1:16:38
  get the sense because of the lore behind why she named me
• 1:16:41
  Inda is because I live in Bueno Quinda, right?
• 1:16:43
  Right, right. I don't understand.
• 1:16:44
  She's a very pragmatic person. Like at the end of the day, for
• 1:16:46
  her, number one is money #2 this one's not pragmatic, this one is
• 1:16:51
  superstitious, and I call bullshit on it, but it's my mom,
• 1:16:54
  okay? Oh no.
• 1:16:57
  Yeah, Yeah. What is that?
• 1:16:58
  I'm not very familiar with that Chinese though.
• 1:17:02
  Yeah. We're all.
• 1:17:04
  Ox, we're all. Ox we're.
• 1:17:07
  All we're. All water.
• 1:17:08
  Oxes. So we're all water oxes, no?
• 1:17:10
  97 is Fire Ox. It's not, It's not.
• 1:17:12
  Is it not? Water ox?
• 1:17:13
  No, it's fire Ox. Damn, I know.
• 1:17:15
  I'm trying to put it up. Over here.
• 1:17:17
  Whatever. The right one is no my I'm a
• 1:17:19
  fire ox. My mom, she's also an ox.
• 1:17:20
  She's metal ox. So an ox and an ox, it can be
• 1:17:23
  either really good or really bad.
• 1:17:24
  But yeah, just me and my mom. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:17:28
  OK, yeah. So we would all, if you believe
• 1:17:31
  in Chinese horoscope, which my mom really does.
• 1:17:33
  I don't right. But according to her.
• 1:17:36
  So number one is does he have, does he have money #2?
• 1:17:44
  OK. The one about the show, I'm
• 1:17:47
  like, I'm like the mother, so fucking stupid.
• 1:17:49
  Like, I don't even yeah, the money, I'm like, OK, we can, we
• 1:17:54
  can makes sense. It makes sense.
• 1:17:55
  It's it's it's realistic also to an extent.
• 1:17:59
  So like this is this is kind of. Unrelated, but like, how do you
• 1:18:02
  personally feel about you as the the woman?
• 1:18:08
  Yeah, in the relationship being the breadwinner.
• 1:18:10
  Being the breadwinner. How?
• 1:18:12
  Do I feel about being the? Breadwinner is there anything?
• 1:18:15
  You know, a breadwinner. Let's say the one who makes.
• 1:18:17
  More money in the relationship. OK, because there's a difference
• 1:18:20
  between I'm making. More money.
• 1:18:23
  Versus I. Am the.
• 1:18:26
  Primary. Primary.
• 1:18:27
  Let's say primary the primary what the?
• 1:18:30
  Primary, where I marry are you? And I are married, but I.
• 1:18:33
  Make more money than you, but like I make arbitrarily like I I
• 1:18:37
  make $500,000 in a year and you make $400,000.
• 1:18:42
  That's really not. Let's go, let's.
• 1:18:43
  Let's push it to its extreme then when it's like it's a house
• 1:18:47
  husband, like a stay at home husband.
• 1:18:49
  Stay at home, husband. Would I prefer that?
• 1:18:52
  Yeah. What was that right?
• 1:18:52
  Because, I mean, people are going to be different.
• 1:18:55
  Yeah, everybody has their own. Like preferences.
• 1:18:57
  Would I want a stay at home husband because a stay at home
• 1:19:01
  husband is different from a stay at home dad.
• 1:19:04
  Oh, that's. Amazing stay at home dad.
• 1:19:07
  I am. Number one I acknowledge.
• 1:19:10
  The validity in that so much, obviously, yeah, stay at home
• 1:19:13
  parenting is work and it's work. Oh yeah, it's emotional.
• 1:19:16
  Labour, it's just work. Yeah, not even just emotional.
• 1:19:19
  Labour it's. Actually real dude.
• 1:19:23
  Cleaning. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:19:25
  Changing diapers. And shit like fuck, even I can't
• 1:19:27
  do that if it's a stay at home, I have to also, and and this is
• 1:19:34
  good, right? Because sometimes I feel like we
• 1:19:36
  have our preferences and it's shaped purely by gender norms
• 1:19:41
  and stereotypes. And just because like, oh,
• 1:19:42
  that's just what we've always been taught, but we've never
• 1:19:45
  really questioned it, right? Because if I'm OK, if I see the
• 1:19:49
  validity and I am OK with seeing a stay at home mom, why am I not
• 1:19:54
  OK with seeing a stay at home dad, Right.
• 1:19:56
  And if the tables were reversed, Because here's the thing, I
• 1:19:58
  guess it's hard to reverse the table.
• 1:20:02
  In my in my case, because I I know I don't want to be a stay
• 1:20:04
  at home mom, I know I would never want to be a stay at home
• 1:20:06
  mom. I would go fucking crazy right
• 1:20:09
  if. My.
• 1:20:09
  Partner wants to be a stay at home dad.
• 1:20:13
  That's Labour. And that does no harm.
• 1:20:18
  Yeah, if anything that helps me. Your childcare is expensive.
• 1:20:21
  Stay at home dad is fine. A stay at home husband?
• 1:20:23
  Which one The hell you doing? But here's no that's.
• 1:20:27
  Fair. But no but.
• 1:20:28
  Here's the thing. I I, I try I as as much as
• 1:20:31
  possible. I try to be impartial, like it
• 1:20:33
  goes both ways. Like if I look at a stay at home
• 1:20:35
  wife, I look at the stay at home girlfriend.
• 1:20:37
  What the hell are you doing? Hey, home girlfriend.
• 1:20:40
  Yeah, it's a thing now, the home.
• 1:20:41
  Girlfriend, wait, that's. A thing now 100%.
• 1:20:43
  Is a thing now, yeah. I will say there's.
• 1:20:45
  A difference between a stay at home husband or a stay at home
• 1:20:48
  wife or a stay at home girlfriend or a stay at home
• 1:20:50
  boyfriend who's not actively trying to participate in like,
• 1:20:54
  you know, working on something for their career Senator.
• 1:20:57
  Then comparatively, just like being a bum, for example.
• 1:20:59
  I think there's a major difference that needs to be
• 1:21:01
  considered. Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
• 1:21:02
  Right. Because it's OK.
• 1:21:03
  Like if you're going. Through like a period of like
• 1:21:05
  brief unemployment or like, you know, like, oh, you know,
• 1:21:07
  whatever. Like you're, you're searching
• 1:21:10
  like you need downtime. That's fine.
• 1:21:13
  Like that's not yeah, I'm talking more about the the bums.
• 1:21:15
  Yeah, yeah. Otherwise you just play.
• 1:21:16
  Don't. Do anything.
• 1:21:18
  Like. You don't.
• 1:21:18
  You don't bring. Nothing to the.
• 1:21:19
  Fucking table. Yeah.
• 1:21:21
  Like my personal preference is I do.
• 1:21:26
  Not. Need a man who makes more than
• 1:21:29
  me. I really, I really don't I I
• 1:21:31
  don't need a man who makes more than me.
• 1:21:34
  I'm OK if he the My only bottom line when it comes to financials
• 1:21:39
  is can you pull your own weight? Because I'm not about to be no
• 1:21:42
  fucking like cash cow sugar Mama, right?
• 1:21:45
  I am not. No that.
• 1:21:46
  Makes sense? I am not.
• 1:21:47
  About that. I don't care how much money you
• 1:21:48
  make, number one, you don't get in the way of how much money I
• 1:21:51
  make. Yeah.
• 1:21:52
  Don't get in the way of my money #2 can you sustain yourself with
• 1:21:55
  your own money? Yeah.
• 1:21:57
  And because like, and can you keep up with, like, the
• 1:21:59
  lifestyle that I want and like that coming from me?
• 1:22:01
  Listen, I don't know if people have this perception of me that
• 1:22:04
  I'm like this very lavish, bougie, you know what, fucking
• 1:22:06
  whatever, Uptown girl. I'm really not.
• 1:22:08
  Like, I just, I want to be able to eat at them all.
• 1:22:10
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think that's reasonable.
• 1:22:14
  I want to be. Able to.
• 1:22:15
  Eat where there's air conditioning.
• 1:22:19
  Yeah. Apparently like sometimes,
• 1:22:20
  sometimes. We we'd have like that we eat
• 1:22:24
  out and I'm like, oh man, I'm so bougie.
• 1:22:25
  It's food, bro. It's cool, man.
• 1:22:26
  Yeah. It's it's full.
• 1:22:30
  You're not. You're not.
• 1:22:31
  Having your meal. Flown from a different country.
• 1:22:33
  Chill out. Yeah, like you and I.
• 1:22:35
  We have like, you know, if we're going to be in a relationship
• 1:22:38
  together, we need to have shared vision and like where do what
• 1:22:41
  kind of lifestyle do we want to share?
• 1:22:43
  Can your income sustain? That, yeah.
• 1:22:46
  Right, that's it. That's all.
• 1:22:48
  Yeah, that, that is all a lot of.
• 1:22:51
  A lot of guys also this going back to like the the male
• 1:22:54
  expectation of what women want Yeah have.
• 1:22:56
  That hang. Up.
• 1:22:57
  Kind of like I gotta make more money.
• 1:22:59
  Or like or like all women. Just just they they want or you
• 1:23:02
  gotta be 6 feet tall, you gotta have make 6 figures, shit like
• 1:23:06
  that. You know what I mean?
• 1:23:07
  Yeah, there's it's surprising. I mean like if you've if you've
• 1:23:11
  met a woman in real life. And many.
• 1:23:15
  Of you have not. I.
• 1:23:18
  Don't know folks, I feel. Like I feel like a lot of people
• 1:23:20
  on. TNF.
• 1:23:23
  Touches grass, yeah, although. The the people that comment on
• 1:23:27
  our. TikTok sometimes go touch some.
• 1:23:30
  Grass. Go touch some grass, you
• 1:23:32
  fucking. Morons, if you've seen.
• 1:23:35
  If you've seen and talked to a woman and, and like even even
• 1:23:39
  have some awareness of like their dating profiles or like or
• 1:23:43
  like who who like the people that have dated in the past,
• 1:23:47
  like you can see like there's some sorry ass mother fuckers
• 1:23:50
  out here. Yeah, who?
• 1:23:51
  Who get? Who who for some reason get into
• 1:23:54
  a relationship with the most incredible, like, smart, kind
• 1:23:59
  hearted, beautiful women. Oh, yeah.
• 1:24:01
  And it's like, dude, if, if these bozos can get into a
• 1:24:05
  relationship, you just try a little bit harder.
• 1:24:08
  You can too. Yeah, like women don't.
• 1:24:11
  It's, it's it's sad sometimes, but women really sometimes don't
• 1:24:14
  really ask for that much. Yeah.
• 1:24:17
  Yeah. To begin with.
• 1:24:18
  Yeah. The the bar.
• 1:24:20
  The bar is. In fucking bar is kind of low.
• 1:24:22
  It's like you got. A good chance, Super low.
• 1:24:24
  You have a good chance, pal. That being said, a lot of the.
• 1:24:26
  Standards that men feel that they don't fulfill are created
• 1:24:30
  by other men as well. It's like they're fulfilling the
• 1:24:33
  wrong. Standards, and this is what I
• 1:24:34
  mean whenever. I be talking to men.
• 1:24:36
  I'm like, yeah, you don't realize men are victims of the
• 1:24:38
  patriarchy Talk. No, Sure, sure.
• 1:24:40
  It's. True.
• 1:24:41
  It's a so real people. Need men need to.
• 1:24:43
  Watch the fucking Barbie movies. I understand.
• 1:24:45
  Swear you know what I mean. My gosh.
• 1:24:47
  You are. Kirby.
• 1:24:49
  Yeah. I'm not trying to be, like a
• 1:24:52
  pick me guy here, but honestly, that sequence when the Billie
• 1:24:57
  Eilis song came out, I cried, man.
• 1:24:59
  Yeah, I was bawling. Yeah, She was incredible, dude.
• 1:25:02
  Yeah. But anyway, yeah, like man, you
• 1:25:07
  gotta feel about you're putting yourself down, man, don't other.
• 1:25:10
  Men pull you down first of all, right, You know Andrew Tate,
• 1:25:14
  Don't listen to him. He's immoral.
• 1:25:15
  Listen to us. No, listen to us.
• 1:25:17
  Listen to us. We're we're, we're not the most
• 1:25:19
  masculine men there is. In fact, I feel like I'm pretty
• 1:25:22
  feminine. He's pretty feminine.
• 1:25:23
  He's pretty feminine, you know what I mean?
• 1:25:25
  And look at us. We're fucking married.
• 1:25:28
  You know we're the right and and.
• 1:25:29
  We're happy with. I hope my wife.
• 1:25:31
  Is happy, but. Your wife is very happy.
• 1:25:34
  With you. And I hope so.
• 1:25:36
  She seems very happy. I hope.
• 1:25:38
  So as a. Neutral 3rd.
• 1:25:40
  Party who knows your wife? You should be my wife.
• 1:25:44
  You guys will get along. Yeah.
• 1:25:46
  You should meet. Both our wife.
• 1:25:47
  You should be both our wife. Yeah, that'd be great.
• 1:25:49
  It'd be a. It'd be a whole girl.
• 1:25:51
  We'll we'll have a gathering. In this, in this in in this
• 1:25:53
  space space. In on this whole.
• 1:25:55
  Grounds. No and.
• 1:25:57
  Also, what would be the reverse of this?
• 1:25:58
  Because at the same time, like, OK, listen, of course, I as as
• 1:26:02
  the woman on the panel, I will make an admission.
• 1:26:04
  I think it is, you know, men the.
• 1:26:07
  Way that most. Men and boys have been
• 1:26:09
  socialized, needs to be confronted, needs to be.
• 1:26:16
  It needs to be. Re evaluated, re analyzed and it
• 1:26:20
  it we we need to talk about it right The the main sorry, just
• 1:26:24
  drink, just drink. Just drink out of it.
• 1:26:29
  Just drink. Out of it, dude.
• 1:26:32
  Just drink out of it. Man, I don't mind.
• 1:26:36
  Making so much. Making so much noise bro trying
• 1:26:39
  to make. A series for you?
• 1:26:40
  Straight up by and it's so loud. Too.
• 1:26:45
  It's so loud bro I. Thought I was.
• 1:26:49
  Gonna go get away. With it, I was gonna get a water
• 1:26:51
  break, Chris. Water.
• 1:26:52
  Break water. Break, GAIL.
• 1:26:54
  Wait, yeah, Where is? My Tumblr, it's down there.
• 1:26:56
  Oh yeah, no, it just. Kind.
• 1:26:57
  Of fell down. Let me grab it.
• 1:26:58
  Let me grab it. OK, there you go.
• 1:27:00
  Thank you. See, this is what I need men
• 1:27:02
  for. Labor.
• 1:27:06
  Yeah. For audio listeners.
• 1:27:10
  We are refilling and drinking. We are hydrating.
• 1:27:14
  Stay. Hydrated, folks, Be careful.
• 1:27:16
  Be careful. Totally hydrated.
• 1:27:18
  Folks, all right, totally hydrated.
• 1:27:20
  Totally hydrated, that's. Crazy, but the.
• 1:27:22
  Hydrated. What were you?
• 1:27:23
  Going to say what would be the reverse of this?
• 1:27:25
  Because as the woman on the panel, OK, the one thing that I
• 1:27:27
  will I will confess to is I talked to a lot.
• 1:27:31
  Of men about. How they have a lot of penta
• 1:27:33
  presentment towards the feminism movement and some things are
• 1:27:39
  valid, some things are not. What is valid is we have now
• 1:27:42
  created a modern pop culture whereby it is totally OK and
• 1:27:47
  it's even totally cool to shit on men but not hold women
• 1:27:50
  accountable for their baggage, right?
• 1:27:53
  Like out. Of fear of becoming a class as
• 1:27:55
  being misogynistic or whatever. And I, I, I see there is
• 1:27:58
  validity in that and I will, I, what's, what's the word concede
• 1:28:04
  to it? I concede to it.
• 1:28:06
  The the the flip side. I'm wondering what would be the
• 1:28:09
  flip side of this conversation, right, because just now you were
• 1:28:11
  talking about how, you know, men like if you just put in a little
• 1:28:13
  bit more effort, but you know, men like they will land all of
• 1:28:16
  these women that are so beautiful and they're so and
• 1:28:19
  just but but these men are shit. The opposite also, you know,
• 1:28:24
  happens like I've seen themselves.
• 1:28:26
  What are fem cells? They're like the.
• 1:28:30
  Is it just like? Is it just?
• 1:28:31
  Like a little, yeah. So there's a.
• 1:28:33
  Little. Bit yeah, so there's a little
• 1:28:34
  bit yeah, as as someone who unfortunately not not just
• 1:28:39
  Chronicle Ally but also used to like pursue fem cells yeah,
• 1:28:42
  maybe not necessarily true but like no, no, I think fem cells
• 1:28:46
  are sort of like, you know, people who I don't think they're
• 1:28:48
  like involuntarily. So a little bit the same way
• 1:28:51
  that like in cells are, I think they're just women who sometimes
• 1:28:54
  willingly, but sometimes also unwillingly, I just take
• 1:28:57
  themselves off the dating market.
• 1:28:59
  I think it's like some of these girlies are like, I'm
• 1:29:02
  decentering men and I'm like sometimes, yeah.
• 1:29:05
  That's a lot of the like, I think that's, I think that that
• 1:29:08
  paints a very bad picture of the movement.
• 1:29:10
  But that's 100%, yeah. Right.
• 1:29:12
  I don't fuck with. That shit, yeah, but I mean.
• 1:29:13
  Like most of the times when I'm with these women and be like,
• 1:29:16
  yeah, sure, you're decentering men, but are you centering
• 1:29:18
  yourself? Girl, please.
• 1:29:20
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:29:21
  Because I think to answer your question, I think a lot of
• 1:29:26
  there, there's a lot of ways that we could take this
• 1:29:27
  conversation. But just one of the things is
• 1:29:29
  like, I think a lot of women have yet to like really.
• 1:29:34
  And we're, and we're also not in that place yet as a society
• 1:29:37
  because the patriarchy is still out there needs to be fought and
• 1:29:40
  it's bad. But I think we also need to be
• 1:29:43
  really talk about like some of the ways that like, women still
• 1:29:47
  like, I think reinforce certain patriarchal things.
• 1:29:51
  Yeah, yeah. And I think I don't know if
• 1:29:54
  we're ready to have that conversation because that's,
• 1:29:58
  again, I don't want to like reinforce that.
• 1:30:00
  I don't want to give patriarchy points, you know, But there is a
• 1:30:02
  lot of like, yeah, like I have been in place.
• 1:30:05
  I have been in certain situations where I'm like, I
• 1:30:10
  think women passed over me just because maybe in certain ways I
• 1:30:17
  don't necessarily like I'm, I'm, I don't know, too too Long story
• 1:30:21
  short on maybe I'm too feminine or like I don't fulfill a
• 1:30:24
  certain like type of like, yeah, where I'm like, yes.
• 1:30:27
  So yeah. I think that's some of the
• 1:30:29
  things that still need to be talked about where like women, I
• 1:30:32
  think need to take a look at like, oh, what part of like my
• 1:30:38
  like relationship expectations or relationship standards are
• 1:30:41
  actually rooted in patriarchy and not just, you know, just
• 1:30:44
  like if you want like a better life to be so if you want to be
• 1:30:46
  like, you know, like safe, if you want to be like, you know,
• 1:30:50
  have your own agency life, go ahead, do that.
• 1:30:52
  But like sometimes, you know, yeah.
• 1:30:55
  Because sometimes there's like this dissonance in like a
• 1:30:57
  certain women where they're like, Oh yeah, I want like a man
• 1:31:00
  who's like, you know, who loves me, who save, who's a kind hard
• 1:31:04
  working. But at the same time, they're
• 1:31:05
  kind of like, yeah, but I don't want him to like, you know, be
• 1:31:08
  too gay or something because that's like a very common, yeah.
• 1:31:12
  Yeah. That's.
• 1:31:13
  A very common like, thing of like, yeah, like he's a little
• 1:31:16
  gay. Like it's also like also like
• 1:31:18
  biphobia as well, where like, you know, I think there's a lot
• 1:31:22
  of women who would be very happy dating a by man.
• 1:31:25
  Yeah. Listen, I gotta say.
• 1:31:27
  Really quickly. Best sex I've ever had.
• 1:31:29
  Bisexual men, No. Yeah.
• 1:31:31
  Exactly because I think they've really had to like, like
• 1:31:37
  bisexual men are they just like just had a long, hard look at
• 1:31:40
  the mirror and just be like, yeah, evaluate themselves a
• 1:31:42
  little bit better. And they've also have like, I
• 1:31:44
  think a wider, more diverse set of experiences.
• 1:31:47
  But I know a lot of women who are like, I don't know if I'd
• 1:31:49
  date a by man just because like, you know, and I'm like, why?
• 1:31:54
  But again, that that. That goes back to how we, we
• 1:31:56
  have all these preferences and types of like these notions of
• 1:32:00
  what we want in a partner and we don't, it's not actually what we
• 1:32:03
  want. It's what we, it's what we
• 1:32:06
  think. It's not we what we actually
• 1:32:09
  want. It's what we think we want.
• 1:32:11
  We. Should want.
• 1:32:13
  Yeah, right. Yeah, I've been impressed about
• 1:32:15
  this. Yeah, you need to have a little.
• 1:32:16
  Bit of self reflection to be able to actually figure out what
• 1:32:19
  you really want in a way. Really hard.
• 1:32:22
  Thing, yeah, and and and having. To and having to, you know, do
• 1:32:26
  the mental work to sit down with yourself and to really divorce
• 1:32:32
  who you are, what you really want versus what society tells
• 1:32:37
  you is very, very different. 100%, yeah.
• 1:32:40
  Yeah, 100. Percent.
• 1:32:41
  Because like. If I'm being like a devil's
• 1:32:43
  advocate, yeah, to Dan's point, I'd be like, well, that's just
• 1:32:47
  people's preferences, bro. Maybe like, maybe like she
• 1:32:50
  doesn't want a guy who wears makeup.
• 1:32:52
  Then like, how do you begin to know what is like truly the
• 1:32:58
  things that you prefer? And then like the things that
• 1:33:01
  maybe have been conditioned by society.
• 1:33:05
  But even those preferences that were conditioned, are those
• 1:33:08
  themselves valid or are they not?
• 1:33:10
  You know what I mean? Because a lot of people can just
• 1:33:12
  like, oh, I just like, I'm not telling you to not date by men,
• 1:33:18
  right? I don't want to date by men.
• 1:33:20
  Yes. Say something like that.
• 1:33:21
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And.
• 1:33:22
  When it comes to your. Preferences and type, I really
• 1:33:24
  want to take the time to say this.
• 1:33:26
  I really want to reiterate, you can have whatever preferences
• 1:33:28
  and types you want. You can actually you can have,
• 1:33:30
  you can have almost whatever preferences and types that you
• 1:33:33
  want. Yeah, right.
• 1:33:35
  These preferences are types. The the the requisites to them
• 1:33:39
  are #1. Your preferences and your types
• 1:33:42
  cannot be in such a way that they are rooted in the
• 1:33:49
  vulnerability and the oppression and subjugation of that person.
• 1:33:54
  Does that make, does that make sense?
• 1:33:56
  Like your preference cannot be. I prefer, I prefer younger.
• 1:34:00
  I prefer younger women because they're a blank slate, and a lot
• 1:34:06
  of men say that. Yeah, a lot of men say that.
• 1:34:09
  Yeah, I prefer. People I can manipulate.
• 1:34:11
  Yes, exactly. Yes, prefer people with no.
• 1:34:13
  Opinions and no agency. Because here's the thing.
• 1:34:15
  Like a. Lot of men, a lot of men take
• 1:34:18
  issue with women making more money.
• 1:34:20
  Yeah, right. And they don't really.
• 1:34:22
  What's the logic behind that? It's the control, the logic.
• 1:34:24
  Behind that. And then if you and I've
• 1:34:27
  actually engaged in conversation with some of these men and I, I
• 1:34:29
  literally, I inquire like, what is your issue with a woman
• 1:34:32
  making more, with a woman making more money?
• 1:34:34
  And it's, however way they say it, it all ultimately comes back
• 1:34:38
  to how you are scared that because she has more money,
• 1:34:42
  she's going to exercise more control and authority over you.
• 1:34:45
  Yeah, which means that if you want to be the person in that
• 1:34:50
  with the roles being reversed, you want to be the person in the
• 1:34:54
  relationship with more money is because you want to hold on to
• 1:34:57
  control and authority. You want them to be.
• 1:34:59
  Dependent over you you want them to.
• 1:35:01
  Basically have no. Agency no exit, right?
• 1:35:03
  Yeah, Yeah. OK.
• 1:35:04
  That makes sense. That's a good point.
• 1:35:05
  So like the preferences become invalid when it's a way to
• 1:35:10
  manipulate Yeah, when your preferences.
• 1:35:12
  Are contingent upon them being in a position of vulnerability
• 1:35:17
  or susceptibility to oppression, subjugation, abuse.
• 1:35:21
  OK, right. So that's that's the first one.
• 1:35:23
  And then also the other thing about your your preferences is
• 1:35:28
  this is easier said than done, but like know why?
• 1:35:31
  Yeah. Do you know, do you know why?
• 1:35:32
  Like, Yeah, like because, OK, certain preferences, you might
• 1:35:36
  have certain preferences for your partner that I might
• 1:35:37
  disagree with. But if you can logic, you can
• 1:35:39
  substantiate yourself why like, and the reasons are not rooted
• 1:35:44
  in again, like vulnerability. Why do you like the things that
• 1:35:46
  you like? Yeah.
• 1:35:47
  Yeah, yeah. Just know why you like the.
• 1:35:48
  Things that you like? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:35:51
  You know, yeah. Look at me like you're on shots.
• 1:35:54
  No, because sometimes when you when you really like.
• 1:35:57
  Sit down. And yeah, because sometimes,
• 1:35:59
  like I've had these conversations with my therapist,
• 1:36:01
  so it'll be like, why do I like the things that I like?
• 1:36:03
  And we dig down. We dig down.
• 1:36:05
  And then because I'm like, Oh no, I don't like the reason why
• 1:36:08
  I like the way I like. We like.
• 1:36:10
  Yeah. Because sometimes being like,
• 1:36:11
  yeah, like, I don't know, I don't know how much I would
• 1:36:14
  divulge, but sometimes it's just like, you know, I dig deep.
• 1:36:17
  And then when I dig deep, it's always either like, oh, the
• 1:36:20
  reason I like the way I like is like, oh, some form of trauma
• 1:36:23
  and be like, no, no. And you'll be like, maybe I
• 1:36:26
  shouldn't like that anymore. Because that, that's the, that's
• 1:36:29
  what self reflection grants you. Just the ability to be like,
• 1:36:32
  maybe these things that I'm optimizing for aren't going to
• 1:36:37
  be the best decisions for me in the long run and I need to like
• 1:36:40
  switch it up, right. But if you have done the self
• 1:36:43
  reflection and you're like, you know what, I like that.
• 1:36:46
  I like this and I'm OK with the reason that I like this.
• 1:36:49
  It's fine. Yeah, actually I just had a
• 1:36:51
  thought. Can this is a fresh thought so
• 1:36:53
  I'm going to frame it as a question.
• 1:36:54
  Can your preferences and types? Also, can they be double
• 1:36:58
  standarded? How do you?
• 1:36:59
  Mean double standarded. Like so for example like it's.
• 1:37:02
  It's OK for you to have. A certain type, but it's not OK
• 1:37:04
  for that other person to have a certain type if your if.
• 1:37:06
  Your. Preference is if your preference
• 1:37:09
  is. Let me let me come up with an
• 1:37:10
  example. If a man does not do skin care,
• 1:37:16
  wear makeup maybe, Maybe. That maybe that.
• 1:37:18
  I would prefer. It if a man doesn't, or maybe
• 1:37:21
  not that one but it's like but how come it's OK when women wear
• 1:37:25
  skin care and makeup that. That, yeah.
• 1:37:28
  Right. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:37:30
  That comes back more that. Comes back to the whole
• 1:37:32
  patriarchy thing. Kind of like if women.
• 1:37:35
  Are like, there's a lot. Of like makeup.
• 1:37:40
  There's. Just a lot of performance and
• 1:37:42
  labor that goes into like presenting famine, being a woman
• 1:37:46
  than it is compared to like men. I feel like we're looking.
• 1:37:49
  At it from three different angles.
• 1:37:50
  Yeah. Hold on, hold on.
• 1:37:53
  Yeah, I'm just stuck on time, no.
• 1:37:54
  I'm like, OK, I think money. Might be I think money might be
• 1:37:57
  the easier example. It's like I would prefer if a
• 1:37:58
  man I would prefer if a man makes more than me, right.
• 1:38:01
  OK, like way, way more than me. OK, so because it's or actually
• 1:38:07
  hold on, maybe the other way around.
• 1:38:09
  I would if a man says I would prefer a woman to make more than
• 1:38:11
  me, OK, right. But then, but then and then I
• 1:38:15
  don't know, maybe somebody refutes that and it's like, no,
• 1:38:17
  that can't be that can't be the way.
• 1:38:18
  And then but why is it OK when it's the opposite, Right.
• 1:38:21
  Yeah, OK. I I think I'm.
• 1:38:22
  Kind of, yeah, I get it. Yeah, generally.
• 1:38:24
  That's a very fresh thought. I I.
• 1:38:25
  It literally I freshly pulled it out of my ass.
• 1:38:27
  I think my answer for that question.
• 1:38:28
  Is actually quite easy. Yeah.
• 1:38:30
  And it's stands for the part of me that's an anarchist.
• 1:38:33
  Oh, go ahead. I think it's just.
• 1:38:35
  Thanks, Linda. Things.
• 1:38:37
  Are. Now I'm thinking.
• 1:38:41
  A lot of thinking going on a lot.
• 1:38:42
  Of thinking going on, yeah. I think.
• 1:38:44
  It's just good to subvert standards even maybe, you know,
• 1:38:47
  maybe there's like, Oh yeah, why is it OK?
• 1:38:49
  Why is it better when a woman why is it like morally or like
• 1:38:53
  progressively better when a woman makes more than a man
• 1:38:55
  compared to when a man, a woman, right.
• 1:38:57
  And sometimes the answer is just like, Hey, it's good to just
• 1:39:01
  upset the the way that things already are because there's so
• 1:39:05
  much of like our, you know, if we're talking about like, you
• 1:39:08
  know, if it's good for a relationship for for them to to
• 1:39:11
  be equal. Yeah.
• 1:39:12
  And the reason why it's good for them to be equal is usually
• 1:39:14
  because when you are equal, you have most agency.
• 1:39:18
  Yeah. Right.
• 1:39:18
  Yeah. You can do what you want.
• 1:39:20
  If you don't like a situation, you leave it.
• 1:39:21
  But if you like a situation, you can lean into it.
• 1:39:23
  Right. Yes.
• 1:39:24
  We live in a. World.
• 1:39:25
  Right now, that is already depriving us of so much agency,
• 1:39:29
  right? Yes, there's take any of your
• 1:39:31
  pick. Fascism is coming back, the
• 1:39:33
  climate's collapsing, late stage capitalism, everything right, So
• 1:39:36
  right. The political.
• 1:39:38
  Yeah, right. Ding, Ding, Ding.
• 1:39:39
  Ding, Ding, right. So like, I think we want to make
• 1:39:43
  choices that upset that status quo because even though it's not
• 1:39:48
  always the case, right, Again, this nuance in every situation,
• 1:39:51
  but it's generally good to upset the status quo because the
• 1:39:54
  status quo, especially in this country, has already like,
• 1:39:58
  deprived us as so much of our agency, right?
• 1:40:01
  So yeah, like, why is it, you know, because sometimes I find
• 1:40:03
  myself asking that like, Oh yeah.
• 1:40:05
  Why is it that like you know? I'm more when I'm swiping on a
• 1:40:09
  Bumble, why am I more comfortable if like the woman is
• 1:40:11
  like dressing a little bit more mask and a little showing more
• 1:40:14
  like masculine like why am I more why am I biased towards
• 1:40:20
  that? Right.
• 1:40:21
  OK. And at the end of the day, the
• 1:40:22
  best answer that I could come up with was like, because I feel
• 1:40:25
  like if you are making those choices, you are already like,
• 1:40:29
  you know, comfortable with, like maybe like upsetting the status
• 1:40:35
  quo a little bit, right? And so I think that's generally
• 1:40:40
  why it's like, it does feel a little bit double standard ish,
• 1:40:43
  standard ish. But like, some things are OK for
• 1:40:47
  them to only go in One Direction, right?
• 1:40:49
  It's like a thing like, bro, it's like that reverse racism
• 1:40:52
  meme. Like, yeah, there's no such a
• 1:40:55
  like, can you? What if you're racist against
• 1:40:57
  white people being like white people have?
• 1:41:00
  Never been. Impressed other than by other
• 1:41:01
  white people? Yeah, exactly right.
• 1:41:03
  Like like no one went to your country, took a bunch of your
• 1:41:08
  shit and then left and then gave you a shitty passport.
• 1:41:11
  Let's do in return, right? A shitty.
• 1:41:13
  Indonesian. You've never had that problem?
• 1:41:15
  Right. No, Yeah.
• 1:41:16
  No, you really haven't. You.
• 1:41:18
  You can, Yeah. You.
• 1:41:18
  Can come to this country no visa required I have to humiliate
• 1:41:22
  myself for three months and like show you my bank account my
• 1:41:26
  whatever my family history whatever right having just to
• 1:41:29
  like having be there for like 2 weeks please I already spent.
• 1:41:32
  Money. Allow me to spend more money
• 1:41:34
  please. Please.
• 1:41:37
  Groveling at your feet. So it's stuff like that where
• 1:41:39
  it's just like, it's good in to like, upset the status quo in
• 1:41:42
  general a little bit. Yeah.
• 1:41:44
  Because the world is already like a shitty place anyway.
• 1:41:46
  Just like, yeah, fuck it up, fuck shit up, you know, fuck
• 1:41:49
  around and find out what's the worst that could happen.
• 1:41:51
  Oh yeah, no. Oh dear.
• 1:41:54
  I think we've kind of figured out what's the worst that can
• 1:41:56
  happen. We're living through it at the
• 1:41:58
  We're living through it right now.
• 1:41:59
  Exactly right. How?
• 1:42:00
  How? Much worse.
• 1:42:00
  Can it get worse? Can get a lot.
• 1:42:03
  Worse, I'm already. Living the worst.
• 1:42:05
  Timeline possible? So like you still haven't got
• 1:42:08
  guns in? Her hands.
• 1:42:09
  I'd like to keep that, if that's all right.
• 1:42:11
  You. Know keep that you.
• 1:42:14
  Know. I don't know actually.
• 1:42:16
  Interesting. Yeah, I don't want to I.
• 1:42:19
  Don't want to? Criminal.
• 1:42:19
  I don't want to, you know, say anything that might, that could
• 1:42:22
  be a it's. A top game?
• 1:42:25
  Actually, let's say it's a. It's a.
• 1:42:27
  It's a Minecraft Larping server. Oh yeah.
• 1:42:30
  Oh yeah man, I'm a. Big fan of your Minecraft
• 1:42:33
  larping server. A good thing, No?
• 1:42:35
  I was. Going to say I.
• 1:42:36
  Was going to say double standards and make a really good
• 1:42:38
  segue into what I want to do next, which is you got a.
• 1:42:41
  Little you got. Some.
• 1:42:42
  You got some stuff, You got some stuff in there.
• 1:42:43
  We got some games, we got some. Games, yeah.
• 1:42:46
  So everyone. So ignore the fact that that's.
• 1:42:49
  Teal and pink. It's actually red and green.
• 1:42:51
  I prefer it so much. Better in these pastel shoes,
• 1:42:55
  it's. Adorable, right?
• 1:42:55
  Yeah. Pastel so give one to only one I
• 1:42:58
  had. At 1 green and 1 pink.
• 1:43:00
  To in there even for you and you pass it there.
• 1:43:03
  Okay, all right. And.
• 1:43:05
  We're going to be looking at a bunch of scenarios, scenarios
• 1:43:08
  and we're going to be saying whether they're red flags or
• 1:43:11
  green flags. Now, most of them are still
• 1:43:13
  probably like in the in the talking stage, in the dating
• 1:43:16
  early dating stage. OK, but I'll I'll, I'll throw
• 1:43:19
  some in that are also like really deep into the
• 1:43:21
  relationship shit. So OK there.
• 1:43:24
  Let's see. Are you pulling these from any?
• 1:43:26
  Like real life things or are you just, did you just come up with
• 1:43:28
  a mix? Oh yeah, maybe it's a mix.
• 1:43:30
  I don't know. Really.
• 1:43:30
  Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, those what's the?
• 1:43:33
  Apps listening to this on Spotify, We'll never know what
• 1:43:36
  happens. See our flags?
• 1:43:39
  You can't see the. Cuteness of these, yeah.
• 1:43:41
  Pastel heels. Yeah, they're pastel.
• 1:43:42
  All right, here we go. Number one, they are very
• 1:43:46
  diligent with hygiene and skin care.
• 1:43:49
  A green. Green.
• 1:43:51
  Green green How is? That even.
• 1:43:53
  In any alternate universe of Red flag, I mean, we got to be.
• 1:43:56
  Honest, a lot of guys don't do that and they're like, I want to
• 1:44:00
  remain like they're like they're like, I want to remain dirty so
• 1:44:03
  that I so that I maintain my masculinity.
• 1:44:07
  There are, There's literally. Movements of people of men who
• 1:44:09
  don't like shower, I swear. Or I don't use SOAP well, but.
• 1:44:12
  But that might be different. But you what we, what we can
• 1:44:15
  acknowledge is that there are a lot of men that they internalize
• 1:44:17
  this notion of skin care, taking care of yourself as a feminine
• 1:44:24
  trait. Yeah.
• 1:44:25
  And so to do that is to emasculate them.
• 1:44:28
  Yeah. Right.
• 1:44:29
  Yeah, it's. Like when really.
• 1:44:30
  Listen, I'm not going to kiss no motherfucker with chapped lips.
• 1:44:36
  So funny. But that's.
• 1:44:37
  Surreal. Get some chapstick boys.
• 1:44:40
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, hydrate, yeah, and also.
• 1:44:44
  The likelihood of me saying yes to getting married to you when
• 1:44:47
  you do not wear sunscreen and it it like it increases your risk
• 1:44:52
  of getting skin cancer by tenfold.
• 1:44:55
  Yeah. Listen, I.
• 1:44:56
  Don't want to get. Married to a man I know who's
• 1:44:58
  gonna die in like the next, I don't know, like 30 years.
• 1:45:01
  Yeah, leave me. On Yeah, Yeah.
• 1:45:04
  Get that sunscreen. Boys.
• 1:45:05
  Yep, Chapstick and. Sunscreen, moisturizer.
• 1:45:08
  Moisturizer. Baseline.
• 1:45:09
  Level of hygiene that you need? Yeah.
• 1:45:13
  How? How?
• 1:45:13
  How? How like diligent are you with
• 1:45:15
  your, with your with your? What's your skin care?
• 1:45:17
  Routine changed. My life, man.
• 1:45:19
  What? Like my, my, my, my, my, the
• 1:45:21
  skin care routine that that that that Zara Oh really implemented
• 1:45:24
  to my face has changed my life. You're, I was going to say you.
• 1:45:27
  Have beautiful skin Oh thank you so much.
• 1:45:29
  You have. Beautiful skin, she did such.
• 1:45:30
  A good job she did amazing. Yeah.
• 1:45:32
  Oh, that's such amazing how it is so clear.
• 1:45:34
  Yeah. You're a musty ass.
• 1:45:36
  Motherfucker, before you swear I'm.
• 1:45:39
  Just joking. We need to see the.
• 1:45:40
  Pictures because it's real, like.
• 1:45:42
  Men like listen, you can tell the quality of the relationship
• 1:45:46
  by the before and after of the man, by the glow up.
• 1:45:49
  Yeah, by the oh. My God.
• 1:45:51
  And it's. Very.
• 1:45:52
  Revealing that most post breakup most women have a glow and most
• 1:45:57
  men don't. It's very revealing.
• 1:45:59
  Take it easy. Take it easy on the protein.
• 1:46:01
  It causes the back knee, yeah. Yeah, there you go.
• 1:46:04
  Women will prefer. You to have nice clean healthy
• 1:46:07
  skin than like a huge back but like a lot of back knees 100.
• 1:46:12
  Percent. There you go.
• 1:46:14
  All right, next scenario I. Don't really fight with my exes,
• 1:46:17
  they were just crazy. They say.
• 1:46:20
  I don't really fight with my exes, they were just crazy.
• 1:46:24
  I. Think that that can be a red
• 1:46:27
  flag. That's a red flag like.
• 1:46:28
  Immediately, like I'm. I'm tasting a bit of narcissism.
• 1:46:32
  Yeah, because like you. Gotta.
• 1:46:33
  Have some kind of self-awareness that yeah, you know, like, like
• 1:46:37
  a breakup is like, you know, it takes 2 to tango.
• 1:46:40
  Yeah, yeah. Acknowledge your account.
• 1:46:42
  Acknowledge your contributions. I don't I don't you.
• 1:46:47
  Know take accountability, yeah. But I feel.
• 1:46:49
  Like sure, there might be scenarios where whoever it is
• 1:46:53
  you're dating was crazy, not because if they're talking
• 1:46:56
  about. One specific individual like,
• 1:46:57
  I'll give them that, but it is you talking about.
• 1:47:00
  Yeah, you are the common. Factor in that, not that you
• 1:47:04
  are. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:47:06
  Or ma'am. I'm also almost also say that at
• 1:47:09
  least coming from a man's perspective.
• 1:47:12
  You hear that coming from a man, men, there's just like a
• 1:47:15
  particular like stink that I get from when, when men say women
• 1:47:20
  are crazy, being like, OK, you are already like, that's already
• 1:47:23
  like a red flag because that's a, that's a very common, like
• 1:47:27
  derogatory thing that like men just like throw around.
• 1:47:30
  And that just shows me that like, OK, yeah, you, you, you
• 1:47:33
  think less of women because they're, I don't know, too
• 1:47:34
  emotional or whatever the fuck, right.
• 1:47:36
  Yeah, OK. Next scenario I think.
• 1:47:39
  This one's going to be a little bit more.
• 1:47:42
  I don't know. This is polarizing this.
• 1:47:43
  Goes back to preference. Versus versus versus type or
• 1:47:47
  whether that's whether that's kind of thing some nuance?
• 1:47:52
  If it's a man, yeah. Same.
• 1:47:56
  They. Tell you.
• 1:47:57
  Or they expect you to be a stay at home mom after you get
• 1:48:03
  married and have a child. Red.
• 1:48:07
  There are no way around that. I don't think there was.
• 1:48:09
  New, maybe there was new ones that, but like I I feel like
• 1:48:12
  very clear stuff. Very clear actually.
• 1:48:14
  I would argue. There's no new ones there.
• 1:48:15
  Why? Because you said just now the
• 1:48:17
  man tells. Oh, that's a good point.
• 1:48:19
  I. Didn't say that the agency away.
• 1:48:21
  Yeah, like you don't get to decide, right?
• 1:48:24
  I get to decide for exactly being a stay at.
• 1:48:26
  Home parent listen like whether you stay at home mom or you a
• 1:48:28
  stay at home dad, that is perfectly valid as long as that
• 1:48:32
  is your choice if you want to do.
• 1:48:33
  Yes, if both partners. Are like they they
• 1:48:37
  enthusiastically consent it's. Fine, yeah.
• 1:48:40
  Yeah. But like, yeah, ain't nobody
• 1:48:42
  telling nobody to do anything here, Yeah.
• 1:48:45
  No, we're having conversations. We're adults, red major.
• 1:48:49
  Major Red Yeah. Well, and also flip it the other
• 1:48:51
  way around. Like why do I got to be the one
• 1:48:53
  to take stay home and take care of the cuz?
• 1:48:55
  Why don't you do it if I made more money than you?
• 1:48:57
  Yeah, that is true. Yeah, that is.
• 1:48:58
  We didn't get to talk as much about this, but that is very,
• 1:49:00
  very true. How like that that that whole
• 1:49:03
  like, oh, life has just a bunch of checkpoints and I should be
• 1:49:05
  married by now. A lot of men like really, really
• 1:49:08
  love the fact that like, oh, I want to have more people with my
• 1:49:13
  name on this planet. I'm like, shut the fuck up.
• 1:49:16
  Yeah, yeah. Like kids.
• 1:49:17
  You're not a lot of most men who want that don't barely do any of
• 1:49:21
  the work involved in like, you know what?
• 1:49:25
  Can I throw this out? Can I throw this out there?
• 1:49:26
  You can throw anything out of. There.
• 1:49:29
  Ask. Especially I would say, hold on,
• 1:49:31
  does this go both ways or is it especially for men?
• 1:49:34
  Maybe it goes both ways. But right now, like I'm coming
• 1:49:37
  from the perspective of a woman, right, Who's like, you know,
• 1:49:40
  with with straight men. I'm going to ask him, are you OK
• 1:49:42
  with adoption? Adoption, right?
• 1:49:44
  Yeah. Right.
• 1:49:45
  I love adoption. Are you?
• 1:49:46
  OK with. Adoption.
• 1:49:47
  There is nothing wrong. Here's the caveat.
• 1:49:49
  There's nothing wrong. Of course you want in your own
• 1:49:51
  biological children, right? But.
• 1:49:53
  Would you be? OK.
• 1:49:55
  Under the specific scenario that either I make the decision that
• 1:50:00
  I listen like I do not for whatever reason, like we can
• 1:50:03
  talk about it, I do not want to carry.
• 1:50:05
  I do not want to get pregnant, right?
• 1:50:07
  I do not want to carry a baby. Right.
• 1:50:10
  Or I can't. I'm infertile.
• 1:50:11
  Yeah. Or you're infertile.
• 1:50:12
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:50:13
  A lot of men like to forget that sometimes.
• 1:50:14
  Like infertility issues. Like the problem.
• 1:50:16
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:50:17
  No, it goes both. Ways it goes.
• 1:50:18
  Both ways cannot be. Are you?
• 1:50:20
  Right. Are you okay with adoption?
• 1:50:23
  Because I will tell you a lot about how whether he wants to be
• 1:50:27
  a dad versus if he just wants to father.
• 1:50:30
  Yeah, yeah. That's.
• 1:50:31
  True. It's true.
• 1:50:32
  Yeah. Is your.
• 1:50:34
  Yeah. Is your.
• 1:50:34
  Children like a status symbol for you or do you just want a
• 1:50:37
  relationship with someone? Right.
• 1:50:39
  Yeah, yeah. Next.
• 1:50:41
  Scenario. They.
• 1:50:42
  Let their. Parents decide major
• 1:50:44
  relationship choices, huh. They let their.
• 1:50:48
  Parents. Parents decide.
• 1:50:49
  They relinquish all. Autonomy to their parents.
• 1:50:52
  Hey, I got to be. Honest, I know people who are
• 1:50:55
  like that and they're they're like entire marriage.
• 1:50:57
  It was just based on like all whatever their parents want.
• 1:51:00
  Oh, hell no. Oh.
• 1:51:02
  Hell no. Yeah, look.
• 1:51:04
  Like like. I'm, I'm of the, I'm of the
• 1:51:06
  opinion, of course, like you have to, you know, your family's
• 1:51:10
  a big part of your life. Yeah.
• 1:51:11
  And your parents, mom and dad, depending on your relationship
• 1:51:13
  with them. But like when you I'm of the
• 1:51:17
  opinion that when you decide to marry someone and you marry
• 1:51:20
  like, your spouse needs to be your priority.
• 1:51:23
  Yeah. Like in any scenario where you
• 1:51:26
  find yourself having a kind of like, like spat, I guess, or
• 1:51:34
  like an argument. Yeah.
• 1:51:35
  Where you have to, you know, where you have to take a side
• 1:51:38
  side with your spouse. If you can't find yourself in
• 1:51:41
  that situation, maybe that's not the right person.
• 1:51:43
  You guys remember that one? It's super viral on the
• 1:51:45
  Internet. You choose your.
• 1:51:47
  Wife or your? What is it?
• 1:51:48
  Your wife or your mom? Do you treat your wife?
• 1:51:51
  Your. Wife or your?
• 1:51:52
  Mom. Yeah.
• 1:51:52
  Is it your wife? Yeah.
• 1:51:53
  You choose your wife. Or your mom.
• 1:51:54
  It has to be your wife. Yeah, No, yeah.
• 1:51:57
  Of course. Well, hold on, hold on.
• 1:51:59
  There's a logic to it. Someone explain it to me.
• 1:52:01
  Let me see if I can like re elaborate.
• 1:52:04
  It has to be between you the child, right?
• 1:52:08
  Your son, your mom or your wife. It has to be your wife, right?
• 1:52:16
  Because your mom. Dad already chooses mom, right?
• 1:52:21
  Yeah, but that's assuming you have a dad.
• 1:52:23
  I don't, Right? But right.
• 1:52:25
  Like, hold on. Is that the logic?
• 1:52:28
  I feel like you. Know obviously like, like all
• 1:52:30
  things like in life, there's going to be some new ones to it.
• 1:52:34
  Like what what are you choosing? You're not you're not going to
• 1:52:37
  find yourself in a burning building and you have to save
• 1:52:39
  only one of each. But in general, like, you have
• 1:52:43
  to side with your spouse, yes, like you have to side with your
• 1:52:46
  spouse. And this is more like, you know,
• 1:52:47
  petty disagreements or like arguments or whatever or like,
• 1:52:53
  oh, oh. My God, I'm so sorry.
• 1:52:53
  No, I. Remember right now, because the
• 1:52:55
  reason is loving your child, maybe some people might might
• 1:53:01
  argue this, but loving your child comes naturally, right?
• 1:53:04
  You have to choose to love your wife.
• 1:53:05
  Yeah, that was true. Yeah.
• 1:53:06
  No, Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I I think like parental
• 1:53:08
  love is an obligation. Like if you have a kid, they
• 1:53:12
  didn't choose to be born, born you, you made that choice for
• 1:53:17
  them. So it is also your
• 1:53:18
  responsibility like to provide for them and shit.
• 1:53:21
  And so, yeah, and also just like.
• 1:53:26
  Yeah, yeah. Again, like I'm going back to.
• 1:53:28
  The like, hey, upsetting the status quo is always good, at
• 1:53:30
  least in my book. You can disagree with me on
• 1:53:32
  that. But yeah, I just feel like,
• 1:53:33
  especially Indonesia, where we are so collectivist and, like,
• 1:53:38
  God, don't make it. Don't let me get started.
• 1:53:40
  But filial piety, Yeah, right. We're just very, very strong.
• 1:53:45
  And as someone who has dated that, you know, before, like
• 1:53:48
  that is also very, very. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:53:52
  Bad. But it was like, it was bad.
• 1:53:55
  I'm not thinking bad in general, but like in my scenario it was
• 1:53:57
  pretty bad. And so I, I think it was just
• 1:54:00
  like, I think I would like to be with people who are like capable
• 1:54:06
  of like choosing me in a situation like that and just
• 1:54:10
  makes me feel a little bit safer, OK.
• 1:54:12
  Yeah, there you go. OK.
• 1:54:14
  Let's move on to the next scenario.
• 1:54:16
  Yeah, this one is going to be the hard.
• 1:54:17
  Ones this one is going to have this.
• 1:54:19
  One might have a little new ones.
• 1:54:20
  They insist on always paying. They insist.
• 1:54:23
  On always paying. So for me, it's the man.
• 1:54:26
  For you guys, it's the the wife. The the what?
• 1:54:30
  There you go. No, I'm not OK.
• 1:54:35
  I I I lean towards. Fam though, like I I like, I
• 1:54:38
  lean towards, I'm attracted to like people who are fam but like
• 1:54:41
  whatever under that category is good is.
• 1:54:45
  That a pansexual? A little bit, I think.
• 1:54:48
  It's of that flavor, but like, generally attract towards fam.
• 1:54:50
  So like, it doesn't matter if you're like, you know, if he
• 1:54:52
  doesn't belong to a Yeah. If if you were like a.
• 1:54:54
  CIS woman, trans woman, fem boy, generally under that category,
• 1:54:57
  sure, all right, but generally you're.
• 1:54:59
  Attracted more to femininity? Yes.
• 1:55:01
  OK, there you go. All right.
• 1:55:02
  OK. So.
• 1:55:03
  They insist on always paying. Oh, this is a very diverse.
• 1:55:06
  Panel. OK, OK, I think.
• 1:55:10
  For me, that's that's definitely not a red flag, but with the
• 1:55:14
  caveat that like a class, yeah, no, like.
• 1:55:19
  And why? What?
• 1:55:20
  Do you mean? Like that's the thing.
• 1:55:22
  Like I don't the motivation. Right.
• 1:55:23
  Well, what's? The motivation?
• 1:55:24
  Why or? Do you always want to?
• 1:55:25
  That's basically the thing like. Like I think it's it can go
• 1:55:29
  either way. This is good nuance, but this is
• 1:55:31
  good because like as long as like they first, they don't
• 1:55:38
  force. Their way into it.
• 1:55:40
  Like if you know like like you, they discount your eggs like
• 1:55:42
  what if like I I want to pay because I feel good right now
• 1:55:47
  and also if. If they're equals with it.
• 1:55:52
  And not kind of like out of some weird sense of obligation as in
• 1:55:55
  Syria. Not out of.
• 1:55:58
  Some weird sense of obligation that they will resent you for
• 1:56:01
  later on even though they put themselves in that situation.
• 1:56:04
  If they can be sincere with it, it can be a green flag for me.
• 1:56:08
  OK, OK. For me, Oh, yeah.
• 1:56:12
  Especially like being a woman. If he insists on paying, he
• 1:56:15
  insists I Actually, for me, that would be a bit of a red.
• 1:56:20
  OK, maybe not a red flag. Orange.
• 1:56:22
  I would be cautious. An orange flag.
• 1:56:25
  I would be cautious because a man.
• 1:56:27
  That has that. That kind of.
• 1:56:30
  Preference. It stems from somewhere, right?
• 1:56:33
  Yeah. And it usually stems from the
• 1:56:35
  things that we were talking about just now, you know,
• 1:56:39
  traditional gender roles and gender norms and conservative,
• 1:56:42
  you know, conservative values. I have nothing wrong.
• 1:56:43
  OK, here's the thing. I'm clearly very socially
• 1:56:46
  liberal. I have nothing wrong with
• 1:56:47
  conservative values as long as you know how to back it up and
• 1:56:49
  as long as it makes sense, right.
• 1:56:51
  There's a lot of conservative values I value.
• 1:56:52
  Like, it just. It makes sense.
• 1:56:53
  If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right, right.
• 1:56:55
  But if? It's like.
• 1:56:56
  You constantly insist on paying. What is the logic behind that?
• 1:56:59
  Right, because first of all, and to your point, the the why is
• 1:57:04
  important. If you're doing this because you
• 1:57:05
  feel that you as a man, you are entitled, not entitled, sorry,
• 1:57:10
  but as a man obligated. You are obligated in a way, yes,
• 1:57:16
  you are obligated in you as a man.
• 1:57:20
  You feel like you have to be the person that is in a more
• 1:57:26
  dominant position regardless of what department it is, whether
• 1:57:29
  it be financials or or whatever, right.
• 1:57:32
  That what I'm specifically what I'm trying to say is that it
• 1:57:35
  points towards a it it there is a theme here that I am sensing.
• 1:57:42
  Yeah, that right now in this situation you paint for me like,
• 1:57:45
  OK, superficially like that place to my favorite because I'm
• 1:57:47
  not spending any money, you know, but that way of thinking
• 1:57:50
  that people into other things. Yes, yeah, like when applied to.
• 1:57:53
  Other things then I'm going to be at a disadvantage.
• 1:57:55
  So that for me is a little bit of an orange flag.
• 1:57:57
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, OK. Yeah, because you.
• 1:57:59
  Really have to. Interrogate.
• 1:57:59
  Where does it come from? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:58:02
  Goes back to like. The whole control thing.
• 1:58:03
  Raise your flag, man. Yeah, I, I don't know.
• 1:58:06
  I still. Haven't decided.
• 1:58:07
  I mean, that's a good one bro. Yeah.
• 1:58:09
  Thank you. Thank you for.
• 1:58:10
  Throwing this football and this is the scenario where so that
• 1:58:14
  means that the lady is paying insists on paying in my in my
• 1:58:18
  case and not me or not her expecting me.
• 1:58:21
  It doesn't matter you. Can if you're so she's always
• 1:58:24
  insisting that. She gotta be the one to pay.
• 1:58:25
  That's the thing. Yeah, I think it goes.
• 1:58:28
  Back again that this little bit of an orange flag may leading
• 1:58:30
  more towards red here because that's like I'm like where is
• 1:58:33
  this coming from yeah right where I'm like this is coming
• 1:58:36
  from this is coming from a person who really likes dating
• 1:58:41
  eldest daughters again and I I I'm I'm going to be the first to
• 1:58:45
  like wave my own red flag on that part because that's been
• 1:58:48
  like a really bad part of my dating history that's pretty
• 1:58:50
  peculiar when. When it's the woman, yeah, it's
• 1:58:52
  I think. Where is that coming?
• 1:58:53
  Yeah, because. Yeah.
• 1:58:54
  Where is that coming? From because for dudes like.
• 1:58:56
  OK, I I know where that's coming from.
• 1:58:57
  Yeah. Where's it's bad?
• 1:58:58
  Like where's no? Yeah, I know where it's coming
• 1:59:01
  from. A.
• 1:59:02
  Dude, exactly if it's. A woman.
• 1:59:03
  Like, like, I mean, are you OK? Yeah.
• 1:59:05
  Pop to you, but like where is that?
• 1:59:06
  Are you? Overpowering the saving.
• 1:59:08
  For something women, no. But I know women like that, like
• 1:59:11
  tying to what you said about how sometimes like there are people
• 1:59:13
  that they, they defy norms, they they challenge norms.
• 1:59:19
  And listen, it's coming from me. Like if anybody on the Internet
• 1:59:22
  know me, like they know me for challenging norms, Like there's
• 1:59:24
  nothing wrong with challenging norms.
• 1:59:25
  But there sometimes you find the people that that do that out out
• 1:59:31
  of where am I? Where am I going with this?
• 1:59:36
  Some you want to challenge norms.
• 1:59:40
  Sometimes it can either be like you're a bit of a pick me girl
• 1:59:42
  and you want to like, you want, you want.
• 1:59:45
  To be different, right? Right.
• 1:59:46
  It's to set yourself apart. It's to grant you special status
• 1:59:50
  in the ice of society. It could be that, or it could
• 1:59:54
  also be. Like you're aggressively going.
• 1:59:59
  Against it in spite, like out of spite like out of.
• 2:00:02
  Spite. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm just going
• 2:00:04
  to. Can I interject?
• 2:00:05
  Yes, for sure. No, yeah.
• 2:00:06
  I would just say I know a lot of people who, you know, live life
• 2:00:12
  against the grain worth like, what do you know, like a yeah, a
• 2:00:15
  contrarian. By nature?
• 2:00:16
  Yeah. Contrarian by nature.
• 2:00:19
  No, I don't think I am contrarian.
• 2:00:22
  By nature. That that I totally.
• 2:00:24
  Understand, I, I don't think I'm a contrarian by nature.
• 2:00:27
  I think I just by nature of like being in like a lot of like
• 2:00:33
  queer spaces and queer communities, and there's people
• 2:00:36
  who are just like, they, it's not that they're like, I'm
• 2:00:39
  contrarian to like because like, I like it.
• 2:00:42
  I think they're just like, just by being, yeah.
• 2:00:45
  Just by. By sheer virtue of existing,
• 2:00:48
  they're already, like, upsetting a lot of like, that's a really
• 2:00:51
  good point. Like things.
• 2:00:52
  And so like, yeah. And so, like, my answer to that
• 2:00:54
  is like, where is it coming from?
• 2:00:56
  Because if it's coming from like some people are like really and
• 2:01:01
  it's in OK in the case of like sticking to like, you know,
• 2:01:04
  paying all the time, are you doing this because you are
• 2:01:09
  because that is who you are? Or are you doing this because
• 2:01:13
  you're running away from something?
• 2:01:14
  There's a lot of people especially like, you know, as
• 2:01:17
  you know, OK in the in like the queer community, a lot of people
• 2:01:20
  lean into certain like dating preferences, you know, gender
• 2:01:23
  presentation preferences. And that's all fine.
• 2:01:26
  You know, there's no one way of like being queer and existing,
• 2:01:29
  but there's all, there's some. Sometimes you make those choices
• 2:01:32
  because you're running away from something.
• 2:01:34
  And then there's sometimes you make those choices because you
• 2:01:37
  know inside that that's the truest self that you could be,
• 2:01:40
  if that is the truest self that you could be.
• 2:01:42
  Fine, but if you're. Running away from something.
• 2:01:44
  I'm being like we're trying to prove a point.
• 2:01:46
  Exactly. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:01:48
  Yeah, if you're, yeah, if you're running away from something,
• 2:01:49
  that means that you're like, oh, there's something inside you
• 2:01:51
  that you still are not at peace with.
• 2:01:54
  And like, honestly, that usually spills over to like other things
• 2:01:59
  where I'm being like, oh, that might be red flag.
• 2:02:02
  So. So it really depends on the.
• 2:02:03
  Motivations and sincerity. It really does it.
• 2:02:05
  Really. Does because I'm contrarian by.
• 2:02:06
  Nature. But the root of that is because
• 2:02:08
  I'm very hypercritical. I always question everything,
• 2:02:11
  right? Because if everybody likes
• 2:02:12
  something, why do you like this? Did you did you question your?
• 2:02:14
  Choice about joining this podcast?
• 2:02:19
  I know she is. She's questioning it as we
• 2:02:22
  speak. Ohh no.
• 2:02:23
  I wanted to. Be on here that's.
• 2:02:24
  True. Oh, you're right, yeah.
• 2:02:25
  No, no. Question.
• 2:02:26
  No question. Maybe.
• 2:02:27
  No doubt so. Maybe.
• 2:02:28
  Be. On this podcast maybe.
• 2:02:31
  Being on this. Podcast is the contrarian
• 2:02:32
  choice. That's true.
• 2:02:33
  Why the fuck would? You be on a.
• 2:02:35
  Podcast at seven. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:02:37
  We you, you could've you like a. Yeah, like a Oh yeah, you
• 2:02:40
  could've gone to Daddy. Corbusier you could've gone to.
• 2:02:43
  You know. Jesus, we we podcast.
• 2:02:46
  No, you decided anybody? Yeah, you decided to.
• 2:02:48
  Tell little folks. We appreciate you for that.
• 2:02:50
  In the right, Yeah, no. But the.
• 2:02:53
  Thing is, Oh yeah, it's depending on what you just said.
• 2:02:56
  I'm contrarian by nature because I'm the rule of God is being
• 2:02:59
  critical. Yeah, there are people that are
• 2:03:01
  contrary contrarian because it's cool to be contrarian or just
• 2:03:04
  because it it it you like the drama, right?
• 2:03:08
  Yeah, you like the? Drama, yeah.
• 2:03:10
  No, and also like on. This this is a very good
• 2:03:12
  question because like, what would you guys say about if it
• 2:03:15
  if it's if it's a man, can I hold the flag then deck?
• 2:03:18
  Yeah, thank you. If it's a.
• 2:03:20
  If it's a man. And he always wants to split.
• 2:03:24
  Always wants to split. Always.
• 2:03:25
  Wants to split very. Egalitarian.
• 2:03:30
  I don't know. I feel like the always is always
• 2:03:33
  tripping. Me up.
• 2:03:33
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's throwing up.
• 2:03:37
  Orange flags. I mean, I gotta be honest.
• 2:03:38
  Let me be like very you want. To treat your lady.
• 2:03:41
  At the exactly. It would be nice.
• 2:03:43
  Yeah, be nice to treat exactly like you want to show
• 2:03:44
  appreciation. What if I say most of the?
• 2:03:46
  Time. He would prefer that him and his
• 2:03:51
  assuming that this is a cisgender heterosexual, Yeah,
• 2:03:54
  man, him and his girlfriend would mostly split the bill,
• 2:04:00
  like most times default to splitting the bill during
• 2:04:03
  special occasions. Then that, yeah, that's there
• 2:04:05
  would be special occasions where like he would treat her, she
• 2:04:09
  would treat him. I think that depends on the.
• 2:04:11
  Arrangement between each person, yeah, but I feel like that's.
• 2:04:14
  Closer to a green flag for me. OK, I would say it's a green
• 2:04:17
  flag. Just because like it seems like
• 2:04:18
  a. Very neutral.
• 2:04:19
  Standpoint, you know, Yeah, yellow flag.
• 2:04:22
  Like it's fair when it's fair. And then like, there are times
• 2:04:25
  where you wanna splurge a little bit for your lady in it.
• 2:04:27
  Yeah, I would say. It's a green.
• 2:04:28
  Flag. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:04:30
  All things being equal. Definitely greener than.
• 2:04:32
  The last one for sure, yeah, yeah.
• 2:04:34
  I think, yeah, I think leading more towards like again like
• 2:04:36
  equality allows for agency. So I think that's the safer
• 2:04:39
  option, right? Yeah, they just like right?
• 2:04:41
  Like. Would your like?
• 2:04:43
  Would your inclination to like green or red differ if it were
• 2:04:47
  the opposite? So a cisgender heterosexual
• 2:04:50
  woman is always insisting on we always most, most of the time,
• 2:04:54
  barring a special occasions, we would default to splitting the
• 2:04:57
  bill in the bill, I think. I think, I think it's yeah, I.
• 2:05:00
  Think it's the green Yeah, OK right, because it's.
• 2:05:03
  You, you guys say green when it's the woman faster than when
• 2:05:06
  it was the right. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:05:08
  Yeah. There's an interesting.
• 2:05:10
  Nuance in that I will say the fact that we were like oh there
• 2:05:14
  there it says a lot about the the the sort of you know yeah
• 2:05:17
  that's the man in US the. Man in US.
• 2:05:20
  Right. Right, right.
• 2:05:21
  The the man's side of us. Yeah, I do want to throw this.
• 2:05:24
  I do want to. Throw this out there though,
• 2:05:25
  regardless of your gender, whether you're the man or the
• 2:05:27
  woman, the one thing that I will die on is is.
• 2:05:31
  I'm sorry, the patriarchy. Shit.
• 2:05:32
  Yes, talk the patriarchy. There you.
• 2:05:35
  Go. The one thing that I will die on
• 2:05:36
  is this. If you choose a place to eat or
• 2:05:43
  to. I guess this is mostly dining,
• 2:05:45
  right? Splitting the yeah.
• 2:05:47
  If you choose the. Restaurant and it deviates from
• 2:05:51
  like the typical range of like the what the both of you
• 2:05:53
  normally do you pick somewhere. Super.
• 2:05:56
  Expensive. Don't expect for them to split
• 2:05:58
  the bill. You'll pay.
• 2:06:00
  You'll pay. You're the one who wanted to go
• 2:06:01
  there. Yeah.
• 2:06:02
  Yeah. I will admit.
• 2:06:04
  By saying. I learned that at a later age.
• 2:06:06
  You learned it the hard way. I learned it the hard way.
• 2:06:08
  That was more because like, oh, I didn't know that was a thing
• 2:06:11
  that I needed to, that I needed to worry about, but.
• 2:06:14
  Yeah, yeah. You wanted it.
• 2:06:16
  Yeah, that's a good. Point.
• 2:06:17
  Yeah, and and also, I mean I was.
• 2:06:19
  Also like I was doing wrong. Yeah, it's OK.
• 2:06:21
  I think the. Arrangements.
• 2:06:22
  Me. Like with like my ex is
• 2:06:24
  generally just also like one we be like, obviously we have the
• 2:06:29
  discussion of like, Oh yeah, OK, let's let's pick a range of like
• 2:06:32
  how much you want to spend. But I think also it's like if
• 2:06:34
  there, if someone has a preference of like wanting to go
• 2:06:38
  somewhere, they're also just generally be like, yeah, I think
• 2:06:40
  we're going to like, you know, you're going to.
• 2:06:46
  The the onus would be. More on you to like pay for
• 2:06:49
  stuff right promise to that right if like yeah, I have a
• 2:06:52
  question since the both of. You are married.
• 2:06:53
  How did you pay for the wedding? Did you guys split?
• 2:06:56
  Oh, this is. Fun.
• 2:06:57
  Good question. Because let me just.
• 2:07:00
  Preface this like what I said just now about listen, if I'm me
• 2:07:03
  with my man, I want to go to fucking Wolfgang Steakhouse.
• 2:07:07
  I will pay that he don't want what?
• 2:07:09
  Maybe he don't want to go there, right?
• 2:07:10
  It wasn't his idea. It was my volition, right?
• 2:07:12
  I'll pay for it. You'll pay.
• 2:07:13
  Yeah. Same thing.
• 2:07:15
  Same goes with weddings for me. Listen, if he doesn't want a
• 2:07:17
  wedding, I want a wedding. I'll pay for it.
• 2:07:20
  I see. Yeah, I, I.
• 2:07:21
  I will I. Will I will say this?
• 2:07:23
  Yeah, sure. Also I will say this like Zara
• 2:07:27
  and I wanted to have our own. Wedding.
• 2:07:30
  Our own way outside of the traditional norms of what an
• 2:07:33
  Indonesian or specifically, yeah, what an what a what a sort
• 2:07:36
  of traditional Indonesian wedding would be.
• 2:07:39
  That didn't end up happening. Because, because, because our,
• 2:07:47
  our parents, yeah, insisted. And this is this is this came
• 2:07:52
  from both sides, by the way, our parents insisted on on footing
• 2:07:55
  the bill. So I was like splitting the
• 2:07:58
  bill. Yeah, footing there.
• 2:07:59
  Yeah. They they they put the bill.
• 2:08:01
  Oh, they, they, they. No, no, the parents split.
• 2:08:03
  The bill? Between the between the parents,
• 2:08:04
  The two parents. Yeah.
• 2:08:05
  And then between the two sides of the parents and I was like,
• 2:08:08
  fine, you know what? Both of us were just like, OK,
• 2:08:11
  yeah, OK. I this is more for.
• 2:08:13
  Them than it was for you type of sitting.
• 2:08:14
  Sorry, but that's also the. Problem with I know a lot I'm at
• 2:08:17
  the we're at the age now where a lot of our friends have gotten
• 2:08:19
  married. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:08:21
  Are. Getting married, by the way,
• 2:08:22
  don't get. Married.
• 2:08:23
  I'm really grateful for everything.
• 2:08:24
  It was amazing wedding you got. You guys were there?
• 2:08:26
  Yeah. We didn't know each other before
• 2:08:27
  that, so I didn't. You weren't famous yet.
• 2:08:29
  I wasn't. Famous yet?
• 2:08:31
  I don't know, but but, and I'm super grateful for it, Yes, you
• 2:08:34
  know, but but that wasn't like the original idea.
• 2:08:36
  Yeah, I mean. Grateful, good on you And like
• 2:08:39
  of course, be grateful that you have parents that are able to
• 2:08:41
  financially support. Yeah, for sure, for sure.
• 2:08:43
  Massive. Privilege at the same time like.
• 2:08:44
  That's the double, the double edged sword to that is then
• 2:08:49
  because it's their money. You got to do things their way.
• 2:08:51
  Exactly. Yeah.
• 2:08:52
  Can I? Can I interject with?
• 2:08:53
  That sure, yes, because similarly to you, I wanted to me
• 2:08:58
  and my wife Winona, we both wanted to have an intimate
• 2:09:02
  wedding where it's just our friends, like less than 100
• 2:09:07
  people and do it exactly our way.
• 2:09:10
  And we got that. And we we circumvented the whole
• 2:09:14
  parental expectations thing because of one simple trick.
• 2:09:18
  We had two weddings, traditional.
• 2:09:22
  Wedding you had the modern wedding yeah, so I.
• 2:09:24
  I knew. I knew that my parents, my
• 2:09:28
  grandparents would want to have a traditional wedding where
• 2:09:31
  they're gonna invite a whole bunch of people and they're
• 2:09:34
  going to have, you know, Baloney's weddings are very
• 2:09:36
  complicated. Yeah, I know.
• 2:09:37
  And they have a lot of ceremonies involved with it.
• 2:09:40
  Yeah. It's very taxing on the day.
• 2:09:44
  So to ease things out, we're like, OK, we'll have the
• 2:09:49
  traditional wedding who, which will be paid for by my parents,
• 2:09:55
  bless them, my mom and my grandparents.
• 2:09:58
  And then we will do whatever you want.
• 2:10:00
  We'll go through it exactly the way you want it so that when we
• 2:10:04
  have our wedding that we will pay from our own pocket.
• 2:10:08
  We can do it exactly the way we want to do.
• 2:10:10
  Yeah. And.
• 2:10:11
  It's a position. That not a lot of people are
• 2:10:14
  fortunate enough to have. But if?
• 2:10:16
  You are. Able.
• 2:10:17
  To find that compromise, that's the best possible solution.
• 2:10:20
  Yeah, literally best of both. Worlds yeah, yeah, yeah, because
• 2:10:22
  you. Get 2.
• 2:10:23
  I'm glad, yeah. And.
• 2:10:24
  Yeah, so we. Got the your question.
• 2:10:27
  Yes. We split it, OK, like because
• 2:10:29
  thankfully at the time, like we both were earning money, yes.
• 2:10:32
  And we kind of like we had like a pool.
• 2:10:35
  We don't know exactly what the split was, but it was roughly
• 2:10:37
  almost 5050. Yeah.
• 2:10:39
  Yeah. So that was the pool that we
• 2:10:40
  were gonna use, Yeah. That's fine.
• 2:10:43
  Yeah, that we're. Gonna use and then.
• 2:10:44
  That that's what we use for the wedding.
• 2:10:46
  And it was a very modest small wedding at a villa in Bali.
• 2:10:50
  It was like 7080 people. Yeah.
• 2:10:54
  And I thought it was great as as guests.
• 2:10:57
  What did you guys think? I think I loved it.
• 2:10:59
  No. Offense to you.
• 2:11:01
  My friend. But his wedding is the best
• 2:11:04
  wedding I've ever went to. Yeah, I mean you.
• 2:11:06
  Are the not the pastor, but you are the you?
• 2:11:09
  Are the appreciation at his wedding and.
• 2:11:12
  His yeah. Yeah.
• 2:11:13
  Yeah. And he made the most beautiful
• 2:11:16
  official speech, to be honest, like, like beautiful speech.
• 2:11:19
  And that's the the best thing about making your own intimate
• 2:11:22
  wedding is that you can pick and choose what parts of a
• 2:11:26
  traditional wedding you want to keep, you know?
• 2:11:28
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. There were.
• 2:11:29
  Lots of stupid. Shit that wedding planners put
• 2:11:31
  in like now we gotta put games in and now we gotta do the.
• 2:11:37
  One of the one of the things that that we strayed away from
• 2:11:41
  was actually the first look. Yeah.
• 2:11:43
  Which is like. And the whole idea is that we
• 2:11:46
  will see each other at our full wedding outfits when she walks
• 2:11:52
  down the aisle, basically. Yeah.
• 2:11:54
  And. And that's like, oh, we love
• 2:11:56
  that. Me and my wife.
• 2:11:57
  We both really love that idea. Yeah.
• 2:11:58
  Because then the emotions will really swell up.
• 2:12:01
  Yeah. But some wedding planners put in
• 2:12:04
  like, oh, there's gonna be a first look photo shoot where we
• 2:12:07
  see each other, like prior to that, and we take photos.
• 2:12:10
  What's the point? There's lots of.
• 2:12:12
  Photo sessions. There's lots of photo sessions I
• 2:12:15
  know and like. And like at.
• 2:12:16
  Some point during waiting time, we figure out we don't need
• 2:12:19
  this. Get rid of all the photos, get
• 2:12:21
  rid of all the first look bullshit.
• 2:12:23
  Yeah. And like, that's the best thing
• 2:12:24
  about making the wedding. Like, we can choose whatever we
• 2:12:26
  want to it and make it exactly the way we want to do it.
• 2:12:29
  I think I. Remember talking to your wife
• 2:12:32
  about this and she said the thing that she loved the most
• 2:12:35
  about her wedding was that somebody's gonna be like, so big
• 2:12:39
  where you being like, I don't know who you are.
• 2:12:41
  I think yeah, Yeah. Especially us being Asians.
• 2:12:43
  Come on. Oh.
• 2:12:45
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, like 800 people.
• 2:12:49
  Weddings are crazy. The entire fucking campo.
• 2:12:51
  Shows up. Bro you don't even know any
• 2:12:54
  exactly like. I have never met you ever in my
• 2:12:57
  life. I had more than 1000.
• 2:12:59
  People how come this is my yeah bro?
• 2:13:02
  And. Like the?
• 2:13:02
  Entire time I was just like sitting on that chair.
• 2:13:05
  Thank you. I was telling you.
• 2:13:07
  Saying I was saying. Hi to everybody saying thank
• 2:13:09
  you. Thank.
• 2:13:10
  You thank. You.
• 2:13:10
  Thank you. Thank you.
• 2:13:11
  Thank. You.
• 2:13:11
  Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
• 2:13:12
  And then the one moment somebody that I knew came up would be
• 2:13:15
  like, oh, dude, you were such a relief, you know that, right?
• 2:13:18
  Yeah. Because otherwise.
• 2:13:19
  I go. Fucking crazy just talking,
• 2:13:21
  saying yeah, thank you. All these people.
• 2:13:22
  I don't know. I'm the CEO.
• 2:13:24
  Or talk. Yeah, exactly.
• 2:13:26
  It becomes more. It becomes more of a wedding to
• 2:13:29
  to, to celebrate. Yeah.
• 2:13:30
  For, you know, for, for, for people to just.
• 2:13:32
  It's a lot of. Asian weddings, unfortunately,
• 2:13:35
  it's not your wedding. It's it's, it's your, not even
• 2:13:38
  your parents wedding. But it's it's a status.
• 2:13:40
  It's a, it's a display. Yeah, of it's a display of
• 2:13:42
  status. And all from your parents.
• 2:13:44
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you?
• 2:13:46
  Ever thought about your? Wedding.
• 2:13:49
  Here's the thing, I. Don't even know if like a
• 2:13:51
  traditional marriage is in the books for me.
• 2:13:54
  So I'm already, yeah, see, I'm already on the fence about that,
• 2:13:57
  Yeah. Exactly.
• 2:13:59
  Yeah, and like, it's not for everyone.
• 2:14:01
  I. I've heard so many tales.
• 2:14:02
  Of some people will be like, yeah, we did like a quote, UN
• 2:14:05
  quote elopement where like, we went to a government office and
• 2:14:08
  got outside. And then after that it was a
• 2:14:10
  dinner with 12 people. And I'm really like, damn, that
• 2:14:13
  sounds kind of fun, yeah. Different.
• 2:14:17
  Different. Yeah, I think.
• 2:14:19
  I don't know what the final form of like if I ever get married,
• 2:14:22
  what the wedding will look like, but I do I think I do want to be
• 2:14:27
  like at least like. Because when, when, when a.
• 2:14:30
  Wedding is boiled down to it, right?
• 2:14:32
  And we, we do away with all the like the, the status symbols and
• 2:14:35
  like the family stuff. I think a, a wedding is being
• 2:14:38
  simply like, it's a very special celebration of how much you
• 2:14:45
  yeah, how much two people love on it or how much I love this
• 2:14:48
  person, how much the person loves me, Right.
• 2:14:50
  So I think I really want to like the reason why I'm still
• 2:14:53
  confused about what form that's gonna what for my wedding's
• 2:14:56
  gonna look like. It's because I'm still trying to
• 2:14:58
  boil down to like, what is the best way that I could celebrate
• 2:15:01
  both the person that I love and then also like the person that I
• 2:15:06
  am in that moment. So I I still, I'm like, I don't
• 2:15:10
  know, I guess like I'm, I'm pretty sure it's going to be
• 2:15:12
  like quite small and like intimate, but I also owing to
• 2:15:16
  like how weird I am, I also wanted to be like a little
• 2:15:19
  weird, I guess. So like, I don't know, right.
• 2:15:22
  I feel like, like I've yeah. Like like I've.
• 2:15:25
  I've, I don't know, like I've, I've had conversations with my
• 2:15:28
  friend where they're like, I want to have my prayer wet at
• 2:15:30
  like a, you know, like a tender and you're like, that's so cool.
• 2:15:34
  That's that's so, yeah. I've heard people who do.
• 2:15:37
  Their like personalities. And their.
• 2:15:38
  Partner. And so, you know, and being
• 2:15:40
  like, that's so that's amazing, you and I.
• 2:15:42
  Want. Them and I want that for them so
• 2:15:44
  bad and like that's fantastic. You need to.
• 2:15:46
  You need to. Be on the same wavelength with
• 2:15:49
  your partner. Yeah.
• 2:15:49
  Yeah, exactly. Like stuff like this, you know?
• 2:15:51
  For the weddings, yeah. Because like if you have like 2
• 2:15:54
  completely different, like, oh, I want a big one.
• 2:15:56
  I want small weddings. Yeah.
• 2:15:58
  Yeah, fuck dude. Had a seat.
• 2:16:00
  I number one, especially as as women, I.
• 2:16:05
  Didn't realize up. Until like a few years ago when
• 2:16:07
  I was like in my mid 20s, that apparently it like the norm for
• 2:16:11
  a lot of women is you grew up dreaming about your wedding.
• 2:16:13
  Like, you been dreaming about your wedding since you was in
• 2:16:15
  fucking pigtails playing dolls, right?
• 2:16:16
  Yeah. Was that not?
• 2:16:18
  The case for you? Never thought.
• 2:16:19
  I guess it's also. Because my mom is actually not
• 2:16:21
  married. OK, my mom's not.
• 2:16:23
  So my mom's not married. And so I don't know my dad.
• 2:16:25
  I've never met my dad. So single mom, single.
• 2:16:28
  Mom only child. My mom's never been married.
• 2:16:30
  And my entire life, my mom's never brought anybody home.
• 2:16:32
  My mom's never dated. Right.
• 2:16:34
  OK. Yeah.
• 2:16:34
  Yeah. So very single mother, like a
• 2:16:37
  true single mother. And maybe it's because of that
• 2:16:40
  I've never thought about a wedding.
• 2:16:42
  My mom's never talked about a wedding, which is so I don't
• 2:16:45
  take for granted. Oh, my goodness.
• 2:16:46
  I don't take for granted. My mother, of course, she as
• 2:16:49
  parents, they have requirements, they have expectations of you
• 2:16:52
  know who your partner is, blah, blah.
• 2:16:53
  Especially being a woman, like there's shit that I got to deal
• 2:16:55
  with on that, right? But I don't take for granted the
• 2:16:58
  things like, for example, at least here's the thing with my
• 2:17:01
  mom, at least it's just money. Yeah.
• 2:17:03
  It's not religion. It's not ethnic.
• 2:17:05
  Very pragmatic, yeah. Very well, ethnicity.
• 2:17:07
  Does she have her preferences and, you know, whatever and
• 2:17:09
  like, can she be a little bit racist?
• 2:17:11
  Of course, right. Can she be a little?
• 2:17:14
  Generation. I'm sorry, there's no way
• 2:17:15
  around. Parents can have a little.
• 2:17:17
  Racism. A little racism, right?
• 2:17:18
  And it's like you don't justify that, but you understand where
• 2:17:21
  that comes from because of where they come from.
• 2:17:22
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So.
• 2:17:23
  So it's that of. Course, but all things you know
• 2:17:28
  but. My point is.
• 2:17:29
  At least I only got to deal with the whole money thing.
• 2:17:31
  I don't got to deal with the religion.
• 2:17:32
  Religion especially. I'm Buddhist Confucianist, you
• 2:17:34
  know, so like, very. Flexible whichever way as.
• 2:17:37
  Long as you're not extremist. Yeah.
• 2:17:39
  And then race, ethnicity, whatever.
• 2:17:41
  As long as it's compatible. Yeah, whatever.
• 2:17:42
  She also knows I grew up internationally, so she can't
• 2:17:44
  expect that I go for a Buddhist, Chinese, Indonesian man.
• 2:17:51
  Yeah. Catching.
• 2:17:52
  Strays girl Buddhist man the. One very specific.
• 2:17:59
  Guy in that description watching is right now like.
• 2:18:03
  No. But.
• 2:18:05
  What you say fuck me for? I mean, I ain't on the show, but
• 2:18:09
  listen, like you probably don't even swim my way.
• 2:18:11
  Yeah, yeah, just. Please.
• 2:18:13
  You know, like. Please don't.
• 2:18:14
  Don't wear Adidas sandals to public places.
• 2:18:16
  I was just imagining. The fucking like the the short
• 2:18:21
  pants the boy. Download Pinterest.
• 2:18:30
  It will save your life. I swear to God.
• 2:18:32
  Please what if he download Pinterest and he gets?
• 2:18:34
  The same info. Where?
• 2:18:41
  Are my flags no. But.
• 2:18:42
  I OK, but I really, I don't take it for, for for granted that I
• 2:18:48
  think because of like the unorthodox way that I grew up,
• 2:18:51
  it's given way for me to also be to live an unorthodox life that
• 2:18:56
  not just an unorthodox life, but live in accordance to the way
• 2:19:01
  that I naturally am as a person. And, and despite the fact that
• 2:19:05
  it comes across as being unorthodox, like in a society
• 2:19:08
  that really cares about orthodoxy, and so I've, yeah,
• 2:19:12
  I've never thought about a wedding.
• 2:19:14
  I, I literally up until like maybe 25.
• 2:19:16
  That's when I started like, oh, yeah, yeah.
• 2:19:18
  Do I want a wedding? Damn.
• 2:19:20
  Yeah, and I've come to the. Conclusion to be honest.
• 2:19:25
  I kind of don't. No, that's fine.
• 2:19:27
  That's. Fine only because.
• 2:19:29
  I'm so fucking lazy and I don't want to waste money dude.
• 2:19:33
  It's so much planning, so. Much it's.
• 2:19:35
  So much planning. It's so much.
• 2:19:37
  Money. No the.
• 2:19:37
  Planning. I'm fine.
• 2:19:38
  I like planning. I'm very organized and I like
• 2:19:40
  schedules. I don't like spending money on
• 2:19:42
  shit that really, at the end of the day, doesn't even make a
• 2:19:45
  difference. Yeah, the honestly.
• 2:19:46
  Like like me and my wife, we took we spent a year to to spend
• 2:19:52
  to like and like the first thing we were thinking about like
• 2:19:56
  wedding planner, no wedding planner.
• 2:19:57
  We got a wedding planner eventually and then they sent
• 2:19:59
  out the first invoice and we were like we were like we got
• 2:20:03
  that invoice and she dead looked at me and was like, should we
• 2:20:08
  just elope? So we just like.
• 2:20:11
  This is a bunch of. Bullshit that we don't eat
• 2:20:14
  pyrotechnics. That's some crazy and.
• 2:20:19
  We were like. Fuck, are they trying to charge
• 2:20:21
  us with like craziest money is always a big trigger.
• 2:20:23
  So it's like, yeah, yeah, Oh my God.
• 2:20:25
  Yeah. But but wedding, wedding
• 2:20:27
  planning, wedding spending, Yeah, no, you'd be.
• 2:20:29
  Surprised at how much? You spend.
• 2:20:32
  Yeah, well, how much? My friends, like, they tell me
• 2:20:35
  I'll be like how much you spend on this and they tell me I'm
• 2:20:39
  damn. It's a lot of money.
• 2:20:40
  That's a lot of that's a lot. Of money for the next day.
• 2:20:44
  You and your husband. No difference?
• 2:20:46
  No. Exactly no.
• 2:20:48
  Difference. Yeah, but.
• 2:20:49
  Can I say this? The caveat would be okay
• 2:20:52
  actually. I wouldn't say that I explicitly
• 2:20:55
  don't want a wedding. Right, because that means like I
• 2:20:56
  really don't want a wedding. I'm OK if I have a wedding, I'm
• 2:20:59
  OK if I don't. I learn more personally towards
• 2:21:02
  I'm lazy. I don't see really the point in
• 2:21:04
  this. But if my partner wants a
• 2:21:07
  wedding. We can do a wedding, right?
• 2:21:10
  OK, OK. I'm flexible, yeah.
• 2:21:12
  I'm flexible on that front. The caveat would be now, if you
• 2:21:16
  want a big old fancy wedding, that's going to take up a lot of
• 2:21:18
  money, but you, the one who wants this now, you go pay for
• 2:21:20
  it. Yeah.
• 2:21:22
  That's only fair. What I want to do on my wedding
• 2:21:24
  day in. That scenario.
• 2:21:25
  Listen, I want to wake up and I don't want to wake up at 4:00 AM
• 2:21:27
  to do my hair and makeup because these bitches be doing that and
• 2:21:30
  it's fucking miserable. Yeah, I don't want to wake up at
• 2:21:32
  4:00 AM, five AM getting hair and makeup.
• 2:21:34
  I want to wake up at 10. I want to wake up at 10,
• 2:21:37
  somebody do my makeup, my hair, I get into a dress, I look
• 2:21:41
  pretty, I feel cute. I walk down the aisle and
• 2:21:43
  somebody waves their wand and Boomer Mary.
• 2:21:46
  That's what I want and. Then I.
• 2:21:49
  Go home. And I go to bed at my regular
• 2:21:52
  bedtime. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:21:54
  That sounds nice. That what I want perfect.
• 2:21:59
  The late 20s to mid 30s wedding. My goodness.
• 2:22:04
  Sorry, but I want to add the caveat would be because I take I
• 2:22:09
  I envision a lot of scenarios if.
• 2:22:12
  Let's say so I know my mom. She doesn't give a shit about my
• 2:22:14
  wedding, right? Let's say his parents.
• 2:22:16
  Let's say he also doesn't want a wedding.
• 2:22:17
  Let's say he's like, Nah, fuck a wedding.
• 2:22:18
  I don't really give a shit, but my parents are making me.
• 2:22:21
  We'll split the bill, right? Yeah, yeah.
• 2:22:23
  Yeah, Fair. It is.
• 2:22:24
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:22:25
  See. That's fair.
• 2:22:26
  That's fair, yeah. I'm a fair.
• 2:22:28
  Person. And all these things, all these.
• 2:22:30
  Things can be discussed. You know when you you know, when
• 2:22:33
  you're in a relationship and you guys actually have discussions?
• 2:22:35
  Yeah. Where you communicate with one
• 2:22:37
  another? Yeah, Ask.
• 2:22:38
  Each other what you want. What you don't want and you're
• 2:22:40
  prioritizing like? Your partners like happiness as
• 2:22:43
  opposed to like a surprising concept.
• 2:22:44
  Women don't all think the same, yeah.
• 2:22:48
  Yeah, yeah. And so so stop complaining about
• 2:22:51
  that. Also, not all men.
• 2:22:53
  Think the same. There you go, I think.
• 2:22:55
  I think the. Stereotype is all men.
• 2:22:57
  Want the the chill wedding? But women are the ones that want
• 2:22:59
  the big extravagant ones that are really fucking expensive and
• 2:23:02
  then that perpetuate the stereotype that like women, you
• 2:23:05
  know, they cost so much money. Women are fucking crazy.
• 2:23:07
  Yeah, I met a lot of men. They want a wedding with a
• 2:23:10
  fucking tiger. A wedding.
• 2:23:12
  With a tiger. A little like an animal tiger.
• 2:23:16
  Like an animal tiger like. An animal tiger.
• 2:23:17
  They want a wedding. And there's a tiger.
• 2:23:19
  I'm sorry, how? Chinese.
• 2:23:20
  Is this very? Like.
• 2:23:23
  Yeah, but it's amazing. Like I was.
• 2:23:28
  Like an acquaintance of mine, Qingdo man, he wants to fucking.
• 2:23:34
  He wants to have. 2 weddings abroad, he wants one in this one
• 2:23:37
  country, another one in this another country and then the one
• 2:23:40
  here in Jakarta. He wants a fucking tiger.
• 2:23:41
  He wants like fireworks and shit like that.
• 2:23:43
  I'm like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:23:46
  No, no, I've heard like. I've heard from people again,
• 2:23:51
  you know, you go to Opehai, you hear these things where like I
• 2:23:54
  think a friend of a friend or like maybe maybe like a friend
• 2:23:57
  of my ex at the time where it's like her family is massive and
• 2:24:02
  they all want their own little thing.
• 2:24:04
  They can add the quadri Jakarta, the quadri Ponty, but they also
• 2:24:07
  want their own like personal balines wedding.
• 2:24:09
  So solution they have 3 weddings, one in Ponty, one in
• 2:24:13
  Jakarta, one in balcony. If you got, If you got the.
• 2:24:17
  Money. I'm like.
• 2:24:19
  Yeah, but you know what? My predicament is now that I'm
• 2:24:23
  like. Making money?
• 2:24:26
  No. Not making money I.
• 2:24:27
  Was going to say I'm popular. I'm popular online.
• 2:24:32
  I'm. Popular.
• 2:24:32
  Well. You're the in the G.
• 2:24:35
  In the G there are no, there are no.
• 2:24:37
  Other can't believe we're. Sitting with the in the GI.
• 2:24:40
  Know no. I.
• 2:24:45
  Was going to say my in my head sometimes like to.
• 2:24:49
  Put it succinctly. There are people I do not want
• 2:24:52
  at my wedding. Yes, you got.
• 2:24:55
  Like. We're we're not, we're not
• 2:24:58
  enemies enough where I can be like, fuck you, like you're not
• 2:25:00
  going to go to my wedding, you know, and whatever, but we're
• 2:25:03
  not. Friends.
• 2:25:03
  Enough either where it's like I want you there so you you stand
• 2:25:06
  in that I think most people are like that right You stand in
• 2:25:08
  there in between where it's like I just.
• 2:25:10
  Out of not. Out of the risk in order to
• 2:25:14
  avoid the risk of their. Potentially.
• 2:25:17
  Being bridges burned, I'm gonna invite you to my wedding.
• 2:25:20
  I have a. There's a solution.
• 2:25:21
  To that. Actually, yeah.
• 2:25:22
  What's your solution? My solution is to have a.
• 2:25:25
  Destination wedding? Oh yes, that's.
• 2:25:27
  Those people. Have to wear.
• 2:25:28
  Away. From the people you don't want,
• 2:25:31
  right? Like if that, if that person is,
• 2:25:33
  if the people are mostly in Jakarta, right, Get it out of
• 2:25:36
  Jakarta. That's what I did.
• 2:25:37
  Just a higher barrier of entry. Basically not same like you.
• 2:25:40
  Like, it's not that I hate them, right?
• 2:25:42
  Just that I, I'm, I'm, I'm very much a vibe cultivator.
• 2:25:46
  Yeah. Like, like there needs to be.
• 2:25:49
  Yeah. Like you should see his parties.
• 2:25:51
  Man, it's amazing all of the people in.
• 2:25:53
  This wedding need to be able to vibe with each other.
• 2:25:56
  Yeah, if some weirdo like is going to be is going to be bad
• 2:25:59
  for them because they'll feel out of place.
• 2:26:01
  And it's going to be bad for my friends because they're going to
• 2:26:03
  feel like they need to entertain this person.
• 2:26:04
  Yeah, so destination wedding, send them an invite, like or
• 2:26:10
  maybe even send it a bit closer to the date.
• 2:26:12
  Then make it a bit harder. Right.
• 2:26:14
  There you go. And that's my solution.
• 2:26:16
  That's your solution. I was.
• 2:26:17
  Gonna say my solution was just to have a small wedding and then
• 2:26:20
  or just not invite them and then send an announcement to their
• 2:26:27
  WhatsApp or house or whatever. Just be like, yeah, we've
• 2:26:29
  thought of you, don't worry. We just didn't invite you to the
• 2:26:31
  wedding. That kind of deal.
• 2:26:32
  Be like that. That's.
• 2:26:33
  Worse. That's that.
• 2:26:35
  I mean, I'm. Not saying I'm not saying it's
• 2:26:36
  good though. I'm just saying I'm just.
• 2:26:38
  Saying it's how it's been done in Indonesia, Like, yeah,
• 2:26:42
  traditionally. Thing.
• 2:26:43
  Whoever. My future partner will be will
• 2:26:45
  have to I think we are we both will need to be comfortable with
• 2:26:50
  burning bridges yeah and so I. Don't mind.
• 2:26:52
  Just burning bridges. But also I I also wanted my I
• 2:26:56
  guess my excuse for it will be that like, oh, this is a small
• 2:26:59
  and intimate event. Wherever it's going to be held,
• 2:27:01
  whether it's destination here, it's going to be like, oh, this
• 2:27:03
  is a small intimate event for like family and close friends
• 2:27:07
  only maybe sometimes. I mean, you'll be like, do I
• 2:27:09
  really want my family there? Yeah.
• 2:27:11
  Or do I want like a like a OK, like a family thing And then
• 2:27:15
  like for like non family, Yeah, yeah, there's like a little like
• 2:27:19
  non family thing as well. So like, yeah, yeah, it's.
• 2:27:22
  Probably just going to be like. Sorry, didn't really want you
• 2:27:25
  through. Yeah, fair.
• 2:27:26
  Enough, but. Also.
• 2:27:28
  I mean, I guess extroverted or introverted, Yeah, yeah,
• 2:27:32
  respectively are y'all. I'm very.
• 2:27:34
  Extroverted, I think I. Think I.
• 2:27:36
  Lean towards introverted actually.
• 2:27:39
  Me too. I'm also.
• 2:27:40
  Lean towards. Introvert.
• 2:27:42
  OK, I'm very. Extroverted.
• 2:27:44
  There you go. Oh, we couldn't.
• 2:27:45
  Tell honestly we. Couldn't tell really.
• 2:27:49
  You could have fooled us so. My.
• 2:27:51
  And my and I'm a very social person and I really like to make
• 2:27:54
  friends. And so I also have this problem
• 2:27:56
  whereby I won an intimate wedding, but at the same time, I
• 2:27:59
  feel intimate to a lot of people.
• 2:28:00
  Right. Yeah, there you go.
• 2:28:01
  Like. Like.
• 2:28:03
  My close friends people like the number on my close friends.
• 2:28:07
  Does it exceed? 100 yes.
• 2:28:10
  OK, best friends. That's.
• 2:28:12
  The intimate wedding. I get it.
• 2:28:14
  Yeah, Like barrier. Yeah, like I want an intimate
• 2:28:17
  wedding. And I want the people that I
• 2:28:19
  want over there, but there's a lot of people that I want there,
• 2:28:21
  OK, honestly. Though I feel like because I'm
• 2:28:24
  pretty sure we. No, Yeah, because we're pretty
• 2:28:25
  sure we did this. My solution.
• 2:28:29
  Yeah, you're OK. Don't die.
• 2:28:31
  Something's happening to. Tapia.
• 2:28:36
  I think. My solution for that was
• 2:28:39
  something basically like if you do want to have like maybe it's
• 2:28:45
  not that big of like a celebration vibe, but sometimes
• 2:28:49
  like after the wedding and after you're back on the honeymoon, I
• 2:28:53
  think you and your partner sometimes need to go around on
• 2:28:57
  like a little press tour, right? Where like I'm gonna have a
• 2:28:59
  dinner with this uncle as a couple now.
• 2:29:02
  Basically just do a bunch of double.
• 2:29:03
  That's another solution. Because I remember doing.
• 2:29:06
  Now I remember that's expensive. Though it is.
• 2:29:09
  Yeah, it. Can be for you Gotta be, yeah.
• 2:29:12
  But. Sometimes it can just be.
• 2:29:13
  Like a get together type. But because I remember we went
• 2:29:16
  to whatever that fucking sorbet place is called in the in like
• 2:29:21
  near Jalan Vijaya where it was just you What?
• 2:29:27
  It's basically under the the hair salon where?
• 2:29:31
  Yeah. Paris Sorbet, Yeah.
• 2:29:33
  Where it was just. You and your wife, you and your
• 2:29:36
  wife. And then it was just me and.
• 2:29:38
  I felt like, Oh yeah. A little, a little press tour,
• 2:29:40
  like like, oh shit, that was not long.
• 2:29:43
  After the wedding that was like that.
• 2:29:46
  Was like what, a month? True, but you were.
• 2:29:48
  President at both of our. Weddings.
• 2:29:50
  There you go, you know? Yeah, that was a president I
• 2:29:52
  feel like doing. That for like people is also
• 2:29:55
  that equal, Yeah. Intimate experience would be
• 2:29:57
  like, Oh yeah, that's a good point.
• 2:29:59
  Like. You get to like talk like also
• 2:30:00
  how? It's been, how has it been that
• 2:30:02
  you're a marriage and you get to really have, like, sit down and
• 2:30:04
  have a conversation? But like, yeah, it was fun.
• 2:30:06
  And now we're like, yeah, whether it's like a big
• 2:30:08
  difference or no difference at all.
• 2:30:10
  And I have to say, how nice. Is it that the last conversation
• 2:30:13
  we're having, I am forcing this, I'm I'm forcing this
• 2:30:15
  conversation to shut down because we're 2 1/2 hours?
• 2:30:19
  But. But how nice that we're that
• 2:30:20
  we're ending. In the podcast, we're talking
• 2:30:22
  about weddings. I love that we're not talking
• 2:30:24
  about the part that comes after, which is death.
• 2:30:28
  You don't. You don't.
• 2:30:29
  Are you saying like, you get married immediately, die bro,
• 2:30:32
  have your wedding and then die? Well, we'll save.
• 2:30:34
  We'll save Rob Stark here. We'll save the conversation.
• 2:30:36
  For Have you considered the grave sites where you'll be
• 2:30:41
  buried for our next podcast episode?
• 2:30:43
  Yeah, I'm not really looking forward to that.
• 2:30:45
  Yeah. This is a fun.
• 2:30:46
  Question for you and your partner, which which do you
• 2:30:49
  prefer? You die first before your
• 2:30:53
  partner or your or your partner dying.
• 2:30:56
  We avoid. We avoid the question entirely.
• 2:30:59
  We, we. We.
• 2:30:59
  Like to pretend that we. We like to pretend to live,
• 2:31:02
  right? Yes.
• 2:31:03
  You both. Die at the.
• 2:31:04
  Same time, the very instant. So there's no implication.
• 2:31:07
  Well, you know that tends to. Happen with with most elder
• 2:31:10
  senior couples have been together 1.
• 2:31:12
  Dies a few days later, yeah. Yeah, the other one I know.
• 2:31:15
  Yeah, yeah, It it's it's. It's a thing that keeps
• 2:31:17
  happening, yeah. It happens enough time.
• 2:31:21
  To be like what is there? There seems to be a pattern
• 2:31:23
  here. Yeah, there you go.
• 2:31:24
  We. Tried so close to have.
• 2:31:25
  A happy ending guys for this podcast every day and I'm a deaf
• 2:31:29
  I. Appreciate that.
• 2:31:31
  Well, thank me. We're gonna.
• 2:31:33
  Have a segment where we talk about relationship advice.
• 2:31:36
  That's true. That's.
• 2:31:37
  True for quite. Some time 2 1/2 hours, yeah.
• 2:31:41
  Wow, we're really good at maintaining just to just to give
• 2:31:44
  you our. First episode was.
• 2:31:47
  Like 2 hours, yeah. Second episode was two hours.
• 2:31:50
  Yeah. We tried through the 3rd episode
• 2:31:51
  we had. We had to cut it down.
• 2:31:53
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:31:54
  Two hours. Yeah.
• 2:31:55
  Fourth episode was an hour and 30 minutes.
• 2:31:58
  That was Daniel. Good for him, yeah.
• 2:32:01
  And now? It's 2 1/2.
• 2:32:02
  Yeah. See this is.
• 2:32:03
  Why? Great yappers?
• 2:32:04
  We're yappers. We're just yappers.
• 2:32:06
  It's fun. We have such good conversations.
• 2:32:08
  That we're gonna be such good friends.
• 2:32:10
  Uh huh. How's the RPM?
• 2:32:12
  Yeah. And we're supposed to be that.
• 2:32:14
  You are here. We're really.
• 2:32:15
  Really happy. Went on your way.
• 2:32:17
  To be part of this podcast, I messaged him and I was like.
• 2:32:20
  Get me on your show. Get me on your show.
• 2:32:22
  Yeah, talk politics. I just want to talk.
• 2:32:23
  Whatever, Whatever. Don't worry, We got no.
• 2:32:26
  Way, I hope you got the beg to do this.
• 2:32:28
  Yeah, I guess on. Yeah, thanks.
• 2:32:31
  For coming, yeah, yeah, thank you for.
• 2:32:34
  Watching do we want to do? That segment, we can do one
• 2:32:38
  story. Yeah, let's do it.
• 2:32:39
  Come on. I think we we.
• 2:32:42
  No, no, it's. True.
• 2:32:43
  You. You.
• 2:32:43
  I I was really curious about your relationship with those
• 2:32:45
  things. So you don't know.
• 2:32:47
  I'm curious. OK, Yeah, I think we can do.
• 2:32:48
  Another like we can do this one I can.
• 2:32:50
  Tell you I don't want to push it.
• 2:32:51
  Tell you. Yeah, dude, dude.
• 2:32:53
  Find the best one, OK? Right.
• 2:32:54
  Yeah, yeah. All right.
• 2:32:55
  There we go. This is so I've sourced stories
• 2:32:58
  from Reddit R slash relationship with VICE so we can.
• 2:33:02
  Define teeth. It all right yeah, there's lots
• 2:33:04
  of crazy stuff on there but this one this one was were you
• 2:33:08
  looking over this with your. Wife the other day, yeah, we
• 2:33:11
  were hollering about this. I'm gonna read it.
• 2:33:14
  OK How's it going? This is presumably a real story.
• 2:33:17
  OK. Here's how it goes.
• 2:33:20
  IA 24 year old female want to break up with my magician
• 2:33:24
  boyfriend. OK, OK.
• 2:33:30
  We're we're off to a good, we're off to the races maybe.
• 2:33:35
  I want to break. Up with my magician boyfriend
• 2:33:36
  27, male due to his inappropriate magic trick I'll.
• 2:33:41
  Read the story. Here we go, I'm in college right
• 2:33:43
  now, pursuing my master's degree in archaeology while also
• 2:33:45
  working as a library clerk to earn money, whereas my boyfriend
• 2:33:49
  works as a magician for parties and events.
• 2:33:51
  Despite our different career paths, I've never had a problem
• 2:33:54
  with his career choice because it makes him happy.
• 2:33:56
  He has always found a way to make everyday magical, which has
• 2:33:59
  been sweet. So we after some time we
• 2:34:03
  recently moved in together and it has been awful so far.
• 2:34:08
  Before living together, we. Would see each other a few times
• 2:34:10
  a week due to my busy schedule, but now that we live together we
• 2:34:13
  see each other all the time and he has started to do magic all
• 2:34:17
  the time. He will make my keys.
• 2:34:20
  Disappear. As I'm trying to go.
• 2:34:25
  To work or school, he tries. He tries to practice his card
• 2:34:31
  tricks on me while I'm doing homework.
• 2:34:33
  He makes the cleaning rack vanish.
• 2:34:37
  When I ask him to clean. And.
• 2:34:42
  He has. Recently done.
• 2:34:43
  Something that makes me want to end this relationship?
• 2:34:45
  What? Is it now you're going to get?
• 2:34:48
  You're going. To get a kick out of.
• 2:34:49
  This. Last month.
• 2:34:51
  We were getting steamy. And he went down on me.
• 2:34:55
  Which isn't unusual. While he was going, while he was
• 2:35:01
  going down on me, he was saying some dirty talk here and there.
• 2:35:04
  OK, I was lost in the moment for obvious reasons, but I snapped
• 2:35:07
  out of it when he said oh how did.
• 2:35:09
  That get in here. When I watched him.
• 2:35:19
  Pull that coin from my crotch, he found.
• 2:35:26
  I'm gonna let y'all chill out. He found he.
• 2:35:34
  Found the. Coin moment.
• 2:35:35
  Hilarious, but it just took me out of the moment and instantly
• 2:35:39
  made me annoyed so we stopped later.
• 2:35:42
  Later I told. Him that doing the magic in the
• 2:35:45
  bedroom made me literally dry up so I.
• 2:35:48
  Asked him to keep. That kind of magic out of the
• 2:35:51
  bedroom. He explained to me that he was
• 2:35:53
  trying to make me laugh flash have fun and he didn't apologize
• 2:35:57
  for it. I.
• 2:35:58
  Talked with some of my friends. About it and they thought it was
• 2:36:00
  funny, so I figured that I was overreacting and needed to
• 2:36:03
  lighten up a bit. But he didn't do any magic
• 2:36:06
  tricks in the bedroom for the next few weeks.
• 2:36:09
  However. However. 4.
• 2:36:15
  Days ago. We were having sex and he
• 2:36:18
  suddenly started to yell ow. So I quickly got off of him and
• 2:36:22
  was asking what was wrong. He tells me I think there's
• 2:36:25
  something in you, let me check. I laid on the bed like I was at
• 2:36:28
  the goddamn gyno because I trusted that if something was
• 2:36:33
  wrong then he would find it. After like 2 minutes he says oh
• 2:36:37
  here it is. And I watched.
• 2:36:39
  As he was pulling up a long riven thing.
• 2:36:45
  It's the second for me. It took a. 2nd for me to.
• 2:36:48
  Realize that it was one of the magic tools that he had
• 2:36:50
  purposely put in me while he was checking to see what he felt.
• 2:36:53
  Oh my, he found it. Hilarious and couldn't.
• 2:36:55
  Stop laughing. While he was pulling the string
• 2:36:57
  more and more, I ripped the thing out while doing it, and I
• 2:37:00
  yelled at him for doing another magic trick like that, even
• 2:37:02
  though I told him not to. Yeah, he told me that he was
• 2:37:04
  just adding more fun to our sex life and that he wanted to see
• 2:37:07
  what the magic trick would look like if it was coming out from a
• 2:37:10
  garage. OK, OK, OK.
• 2:37:15
  I get OK. I get that he's a magician.
• 2:37:17
  And that he loves magic. But I'm still upset about him
• 2:37:20
  breaking the boundary I had set. I'm fine with his magic tricks
• 2:37:22
  85% of the time, but sex is where I draw the line.
• 2:37:26
  Yeah, I am demisexual. I'm demisexual so I have to have
• 2:37:29
  a strong, trusting and close relationship with someone before
• 2:37:31
  I can even think about having sex with them.
• 2:37:33
  Yep. So him breaking my boundary has
• 2:37:35
  really hurt me and I've lost my trust in him.
• 2:37:37
  However, everyone I've talked to you about the situation says
• 2:37:40
  that what he did was hilarious. We have built a strong
• 2:37:42
  relationship, I really saw myself marrying him one day.
• 2:37:44
  I fully trusted him and now I don't know if I can ever again.
• 2:37:47
  Should we break up or can we fix this and stay together?
• 2:37:50
  I'm lost so I'd appreciate any advice if this was a real.
• 2:37:53
  Relationship. Oh my.
• 2:37:55
  God. Before y'all.
• 2:37:57
  Comment I think it's very funny to note that she keeps saying
• 2:38:01
  that her friends found it hilarious.
• 2:38:04
  Yeah. Honestly, if.
• 2:38:05
  I. Were her friend, I'd find it
• 2:38:06
  hilarious too, because I'm not the one married to this bozo.
• 2:38:11
  Okay, I would find. Hilarious.
• 2:38:12
  But two, I would tell her to like, okay, off the breaks.
• 2:38:16
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I feel.
• 2:38:19
  Like the bedroom is such like an intimate space.
• 2:38:23
  Right and honestly. Honestly, I'm down.
• 2:38:28
  Both of you know me. I'm, you're done the clown.
• 2:38:32
  I'm done with some magic already.
• 2:38:37
  No, Like, yeah, yeah, I I can get.
• 2:38:39
  Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm OK with
• 2:38:40
  being, like, freaky. All right?
• 2:38:42
  I'm, I'm gonna get freaky, Right.
• 2:38:43
  It's fun if your partner is not OK with something that you're
• 2:38:48
  doing. Yeah.
• 2:38:50
  Just don't, yeah. Just don't like and if you, if
• 2:38:53
  they've already told you, please don't do that.
• 2:38:55
  That's why. And don't fucking do it.
• 2:38:56
  And. Then you do it again I.
• 2:38:58
  Feel like that's OK. Yeah, my guy.
• 2:39:01
  I mean, I we're, you know. We're laughing here because
• 2:39:02
  obviously it's just, it's so absurd and it's, it's so.
• 2:39:06
  It's. It's so funny because it and
• 2:39:08
  also we feel like we're able to laugh at that because it's, it's
• 2:39:11
  a magic trick. It's harmless, right?
• 2:39:13
  But at the. Core of.
• 2:39:14
  It is him being explicitly told of what she is OK and not OK
• 2:39:18
  with in the bedroom and then him lately defying that.
• 2:39:21
  And what is the difference between this versus like a like,
• 2:39:25
  for example, a, a form of BDSM that you're not OK with and then
• 2:39:28
  the man like, you know, choosing to do it.
• 2:39:30
  We would not be laughing at that, but we're laughing at
• 2:39:32
  this. But they they.
• 2:39:33
  Yeah, because it's absurd. It's absurd.
• 2:39:35
  But they come from the same root.
• 2:39:37
  So. But in this case however, like I
• 2:39:40
  would what I would tell her pump.
• 2:39:42
  The brakes don't. You don't.
• 2:39:43
  Need to get out of the car just yet because at the end of the.
• 2:39:45
  Because again, like we have to exercise some level of like,
• 2:39:48
  like discernment here, right? Some judgement here.
• 2:39:52
  It's a it's a magic trip. And it doesn't come from a
• 2:39:55
  nefarious place. I think he just wants to.
• 2:39:57
  Yeah, he wants to insert some more like light heartedness,
• 2:39:59
  more comedy to the boy. Did he insert it and he jammed.
• 2:40:04
  Well, inserted it all right, but like a whole 20 feet of it.
• 2:40:07
  Yeah. So I think that's the only
• 2:40:09
  saving grace that would lead me to tell her you don't got to get
• 2:40:12
  out of the car. Like they're saying a doomed
• 2:40:14
  relationship. But you really got to sit this
• 2:40:15
  man down and be like, listen. I'll tell you, I'm not OK with
• 2:40:17
  this in the bedroom. I'm really not OK with it.
• 2:40:19
  It's like a first strike. Two strike.
• 2:40:20
  Three strike. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:40:22
  This is not about magic, this is.
• 2:40:23
  About you breaking my trust. This is about consent.
• 2:40:26
  And yeah, the, the, the, the, the, the, the meaning, the
• 2:40:29
  understanding and the importance of consent.
• 2:40:31
  Yeah, exactly. And I guess it's like.
• 2:40:33
  Well. The the the biggest potential
• 2:40:36
  is, would this be a red flag? I guess it is a red flag, right?
• 2:40:39
  Because if you're OK, it's a red ribbon red flag.
• 2:40:41
  It's a red ribbon A. String of red ribbon.
• 2:40:44
  Coming out of my vagina because because if you're OK with
• 2:40:49
  dismissing my autonomy, my bodily autonomy and defy my
• 2:40:53
  consent under the guise of it being, you know, something of,
• 2:40:57
  you know, non nefarious reasons and it's just.
• 2:41:00
  A joke for comedy reasons then. You're going to be able to apply
• 2:41:03
  that in other areas, that's true.
• 2:41:05
  That's. True.
• 2:41:06
  Yeah, so. Orange flag.
• 2:41:09
  Yeah, Yeah. Bordering red.
• 2:41:12
  Yeah, yeah. Bordering red like.
• 2:41:13
  Like in all. Things the prison orange.
• 2:41:16
  It is a prison. Orange.
• 2:41:17
  That's well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:41:20
  Fuck, that's so funny. I know.
• 2:41:21
  Yeah, I know. I was hollering well.
• 2:41:24
  Yeah, which is, which is so. Scary because like, I, I've
• 2:41:28
  known so many, like, relationship horror stories that
• 2:41:31
  begin or end with like, hey babe, it's just a joke.
• 2:41:35
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 'cause like, I think, I think like
• 2:41:38
  going back to like what we said previous, like where like I, I
• 2:41:41
  know a lot of like men who like, like, love to like bully their
• 2:41:44
  partners a little bit and be like, no one's laughing.
• 2:41:48
  And even if I refund I'd be like OK mean spirited.
• 2:41:50
  Yeah, I mean like. Yeah, I think.
• 2:41:53
  Yeah, I think like. This is so true of like socially
• 2:41:56
  but also have sex where like, men sometimes don't realize that
• 2:41:59
  they're the only one having fun in a situation.
• 2:42:01
  Yeah, and they need to like Wisen.
• 2:42:04
  Up a little. Bit and then like like the woman
• 2:42:06
  or whoever their partners is like just not having it and
• 2:42:08
  that's definitely something. To do with the way most men and
• 2:42:11
  boys are socialized, to be honest.
• 2:42:12
  Yeah, No, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's true.
• 2:42:14
  Really discount the. Feelings, right?
• 2:42:16
  Yeah, I think. Closing thoughts.
• 2:42:19
  For me. In all times I think about, I
• 2:42:23
  think I, I think the true line, the light is off.
• 2:42:28
  No. Shit.
• 2:42:29
  My the camera might have cut out.
• 2:42:30
  No. No, wait a second, where did I
• 2:42:33
  cut off? I have no.
• 2:42:34
  Idea we gotta. Find out.
• 2:42:36
  Well, we better find out. All right?
• 2:42:37
  Shit, it's. OK, let's just.
• 2:42:39
  Continue with the. Audio.
• 2:42:39
  Yeah, let's continue with the audio for.
• 2:42:41
  Sure, yeah. Yeah.
• 2:42:42
  OK, Closing thoughts. Like all things in any
• 2:42:45
  relationship, open communication.
• 2:42:48
  Yeah, Open, honest communication.
• 2:42:49
  Be honest with yourself and then be honest with your partner.
• 2:42:52
  Yeah. And then that's the basis of any
• 2:42:53
  strong relationship, whatever form it may take.
• 2:42:56
  Yeah. All right, is that?
• 2:42:59
  How are we gonna close it off? I mean, I agree with that.
• 2:43:02
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's where.
• 2:43:06
  We will close. It great.
• 2:43:07
  We'll end on. That incredibly light hearted
• 2:43:09
  send us off. Thanks for the ribbon.
• 2:43:12
  Sorry, thanks for the closing. Message.
• 2:43:15
  Thanks for the story as well, Energy.
• 2:43:16
  Thank you so much for coming. Thank you so much.
• 2:43:19
  Please come hang out with us.