Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / BODY BAGS WITH JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN: GILGO UPDATE: 1997 Murder/Dismemberment of 'Peaches;' ARREST!

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BODY BAGS WITH JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN: GILGO UPDATE: 1997 Murder/Dismemberment of 'Peaches;' ARREST! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:01
Speaker 1: Bodydas, but Joseph's gotten more. There's a term of endearment
0:08
Speaker 1: that's kind of an older term. Now don't hear a lot,
0:11
Speaker 1: But I've always thought that it had kind of a
0:13
Speaker 1: sweetness to it. It's a term that I think my
0:18
Speaker 1: grandmother's generation would use, and this term of endearment generally
0:23
Speaker 1: refers to a female. The term is actually a peach,
0:29
Speaker 1: and it implies that someone is naturally sweet, they're kind,
0:34
Speaker 1: there's someone that you would want to be around. For me,
0:40
Speaker 1: that term means a lot. It means a lot because
0:45
Speaker 1: I've actually gone out with my grandmother when I was little,
0:50
Speaker 1: up around rust and Louisiana and picked these gigantic peaches.
0:55
Speaker 1: My grandmother used to make peach ice cream. My wife
0:58
Speaker 1: loves peaches. But today I'm going to talk about another
1:04
Speaker 1: kind of peach. I'm going to talk about a peach,
1:08
Speaker 1: or at least the image of it, that was tattooed
1:12
Speaker 1: on a woman's body that for years we didn't know
1:16
Speaker 1: who she was. And oh, by the way, the same
1:19
Speaker 1: woman I had a child. We didn't know who that
1:24
Speaker 1: child was either, And now we have identities of both
1:28
Speaker 1: of them. And guess what, we now have a suspect
1:34
Speaker 1: that is linked to their murders. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan
1:41
Speaker 1: and this is body backs. A couple of years back, Dave,
1:50
Speaker 1: I was going up to the Hamptons. I guess it's
1:54
Speaker 1: the first year that we did Hampton's. Who'd done it?
1:57
Speaker 1: You didn't get to go with me the first time
1:59
Speaker 1: you went this pastime though, and we I think you
2:01
Speaker 1: would agree we had pretty good time, didn't we. It
2:03
Speaker 1: was a blast, lovely people. I thought they were gonna
2:07
Speaker 1: hear my accent and kick me out. UH from out
2:09
Speaker 1: there on Long Island say no, you have to leave.
2:12
Speaker 1: But they were just some of the sweetest folks and
2:14
Speaker 1: have always been very generous with us. And the first
2:18
Speaker 1: time I went up there, I went up with UH
2:22
Speaker 1: with Keimmy and Joe. Jack O Lone met us at
2:26
Speaker 1: at the airport a litle Guardians. He is Joe's ah,
2:31
Speaker 1: former homicide homicide sergeant and also cold case sergeant with
2:36
Speaker 1: NYPD and just sweet man. And he to tell you
2:41
Speaker 1: how what a good guy he is. He actually drove
2:43
Speaker 1: in to La Guardia and picked Keimmy and I up
2:47
Speaker 1: at LaGuardia to make the several hour trip. I didn't
2:50
Speaker 1: realize this as far out to the Hampton's while I've
2:53
Speaker 1: been up there, and he said, uh, you know in
2:56
Speaker 1: his in his voice that's stinkily New York. He was like, hey, Joe,
3:00
Speaker 1: I got a surprise for you guys. I was like, okay,
3:03
Speaker 1: are we going to go eat like some clam chowder
3:06
Speaker 1: or something? Because we actually did. He said, yeah, after
3:09
Speaker 1: the clam chowder, we're gonna go. We're gonna go. I'm
3:12
Speaker 1: gonna take you someplace special. Well, guess what, he's the
3:16
Speaker 1: one that took you. Yeah, Joe did. And I didn't
3:18
Speaker 1: know where I was going.
3:20
Speaker 2: Everybody else because I know what you're talking about, Okay,
3:23
Speaker 2: go ahead.
3:23
Speaker 3: I didn't know he did.
3:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was Joe, and I had no idea. And like,
3:28
Speaker 1: I look back over over my shoulder Kimmy in the
3:30
Speaker 1: back seat. I'm thinking, there's he taking. I said, Well,
3:34
Speaker 1: as it turns out, we wind up on this beautiful
3:38
Speaker 1: suburban street with these neat, neat yards and we're looking
3:40
Speaker 1: at these houses. They're kind of small, and he's like,
3:43
Speaker 1: oh yeah, he said these houses in here. He says
3:46
Speaker 1: one point five mili for these houses. And I'm looking
3:49
Speaker 1: at these houses. I'm thinking they're really nice, they're really neat,
3:52
Speaker 1: but there ain't nothing special about it. You know, in
3:55
Speaker 1: Alabama you get a mansion for that. Until we are
4:00
Speaker 1: in front of one particular house on Long Island and
4:04
Speaker 1: it looked like, oh my lord, it looked like the
4:08
Speaker 1: worst shack in the face of the planet, broken down, dirty.
4:12
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, in my mind's I
4:14
Speaker 1: realized where I was, where I was, and we were
4:18
Speaker 1: parked in front of Rex Huermann's home, and how this
4:22
Speaker 1: guy lived in this neighborhood without being physically thrown out
4:26
Speaker 1: by all these people who apparently really work hard on
4:29
Speaker 1: their houses. Because there was not a blade of grass
4:31
Speaker 1: that was higher than anybody else's. It was like very
4:33
Speaker 1: house proud. Oh boy, very house proud.
4:36
Speaker 3: I did not realize it was Joe that took you there.
4:39
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, and he takes us he actually takes
4:41
Speaker 1: us down the coast road, still heading down.
4:46
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.
4:46
Speaker 1: We went out to where the Gilga four were actually found.
4:50
Speaker 1: Took us to go go beach. Because you know, I've
4:52
Speaker 1: only talked about these things on the news. I didn't
4:56
Speaker 1: really have a sense about it. And man, I tell
4:58
Speaker 1: you what, when I got there, I realized that whoever
5:02
Speaker 1: was doing these these horrible acts had to have very
5:07
Speaker 1: specific knowledge about the train, about traffic movements, because they say, literally,
5:12
Speaker 1: one of the hardest places to get around in the
5:16
Speaker 1: US is down that two lane road headed out to
5:19
Speaker 1: the Hamptons. During the summertime. It is blocked and locked
5:23
Speaker 1: down very tight past you'd have to know where you
5:27
Speaker 1: can turn around and all this stuff. So automatically now
5:30
Speaker 1: I'm thinking somebody has to be a native that's going
5:32
Speaker 1: out here. You know, there's some kind of connectivity. But
5:34
Speaker 1: interestingly enough, Dave, the case that we're going to talk
5:39
Speaker 1: about today is kind of an out here because for
5:43
Speaker 1: years and years, this case that we had that we
5:46
Speaker 1: are going to talk about has always been linked to
5:49
Speaker 1: the GILG four or whoever the perpetrator was, to all
5:53
Speaker 1: these other remains, And as it turns out, brother Dave
5:56
Speaker 1: doesn't seem.
5:56
Speaker 2: Like this is the case not even closed. And this
5:59
Speaker 2: is one of the problems with not one of the
6:03
Speaker 2: problems with this case. But you know, first things first,
6:06
Speaker 2: there we're talking about Peaches, who was identified as one
6:10
Speaker 2: of the Gilgo I need to say outliers, but her
6:13
Speaker 2: name was already in there, as you know, a Doe,
6:16
Speaker 2: a Jane Doe. We don't know who she is, Yeah,
6:18
Speaker 2: I thank you, yeah yeah. And there was a toddler
6:22
Speaker 2: and it didn't fit the mix. It did not that
6:24
Speaker 2: the toddler did not fit into the idea of who
6:29
Speaker 2: these other women were that were identified as the gil
6:33
Speaker 2: Go for and beyond that they're.
6:35
Speaker 3: Just not there.
6:36
Speaker 2: But geographically speaking, we're going to include them because of this. Now,
6:42
Speaker 2: there are not just four or five or six Gilgo victims.
6:46
Speaker 2: When you actually look in the general vicinity, I think
6:49
Speaker 2: there's eleven. There are that many that could be attributed
6:53
Speaker 2: to one killer. But it also could be that there's
6:56
Speaker 2: been more than one person using this area as a
6:58
Speaker 2: dumping ground and this case might just prove part of that.
7:02
Speaker 2: Just to give you an idea. Peaches has been identified
7:08
Speaker 2: as Tanya Jackson and baby Doe has been identified as
7:14
Speaker 2: Tatiana Marie Dykes. Tatiana was only two years old, Tanya
7:22
Speaker 2: twenty six and from Alabama. Tanya grew up in Alabama
7:27
Speaker 2: and ended up in the military.
7:30
Speaker 3: She at the time of all of this.
7:32
Speaker 2: Now backing up, you know, her body was discovered in
7:35
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven, Tanya Jackson's body and it wasn't all
7:40
Speaker 2: in one piece, Joe. And so I'm hoping that I'm
7:43
Speaker 2: hoping today you can enlighten us as to how is
7:50
Speaker 2: it from an investigation standpoint where you have somebody like
7:54
Speaker 2: like Tanya and Tatiana, their bodies are found in this area,
7:58
Speaker 2: they're deceased, they're tough to identify, but because we don't
8:02
Speaker 2: have a name or a background or anything else, they
8:05
Speaker 2: just kind of get lumped together with the others of
8:08
Speaker 2: the Gilgos story, you know. And as I say that,
8:12
Speaker 2: at one point, one thing out, you know, the one
8:16
Speaker 2: of the girls who was her name is escape to
8:18
Speaker 2: me right now. Her attorney has always been one of
8:21
Speaker 2: the guys out in the forefront as one of the
8:25
Speaker 2: Gilgo victims. And I don't think she is. I think
8:30
Speaker 2: she was, you know, she was out on a call.
8:31
Speaker 2: She was working in the sex trade, and she was
8:34
Speaker 2: out there and we've got phone calls with her and
8:36
Speaker 2: she's leaving and running up and down the street, and
8:39
Speaker 2: her body is found.
8:40
Speaker 3: But it's nothing like the others.
8:42
Speaker 2: And anyway, I think that's just a really really sad
8:46
Speaker 2: death that happened. I don't think she's part of the
8:49
Speaker 2: Gilgo murder spree here with humor mean.
8:52
Speaker 1: No, And that particular case, actually Joe took us to
8:55
Speaker 1: that location as well. Yeah, where that whole progression took place.
9:00
Speaker 1: And it's literally right by the beach. Kind of fascinating location.
9:04
Speaker 1: The beach is immediately, you know, to your right, and
9:07
Speaker 1: then you've got this I don't know, they'll call it
9:11
Speaker 1: a tidle basin. I look at it, and I would
9:15
Speaker 1: use the term probably a slew. It's got a lot
9:19
Speaker 1: of marsh grass in there. There's all these bushes, it's
9:22
Speaker 1: really thick. It's an area where this victim, that victim
9:26
Speaker 1: that you're referring to, was actually found and her remains
9:32
Speaker 1: were skeletal. Okay, so there's really never been a cause
9:36
Speaker 1: of death that they've arrived at, you know, with her,
9:39
Speaker 1: we just got a deceased female skeleton. Well that's kind
9:43
Speaker 1: of obvious, right, deceased female skeleton. We have skeletonized remains
9:49
Speaker 1: of a lady that was down there, and also her clothes,
9:51
Speaker 1: some of her clothes they believe were there.
9:53
Speaker 2: Shannon Gilbert, that's the name I was trying to think
9:55
Speaker 2: of as Shannon Gilbert. I don't mean any disrespect, no,
9:58
Speaker 2: of course, hey man, and you need, you need a
10:01
Speaker 2: playbill to keep up with all of these because there's
10:04
Speaker 2: so many.
10:05
Speaker 1: And that's that goes to the confusion, right.
10:07
Speaker 2: I think without Shanning Gilbert's family, I really think that
10:10
Speaker 2: without Shannon Gilbert's family that the gig story might have
10:15
Speaker 2: gone away. It was her family that kept bringing it
10:18
Speaker 2: back up. They kept going because they had the nine
10:20
Speaker 2: one one. There was so much they had and they
10:22
Speaker 2: were just and they believed she was part of that.
10:24
Speaker 2: And I don't believe she was based on investigation. But
10:28
Speaker 2: without her, I don't think you have human in jail.
10:31
Speaker 1: Well. The other thing that has kept I think that
10:33
Speaker 1: this case kind of are has kept the investigators and
10:38
Speaker 1: the public and everybody else associated with it just wants
10:41
Speaker 1: to get answers a lot of it. That has kept
10:43
Speaker 1: things kind of handcuffed and fragmented. There's a lot of
10:47
Speaker 1: corruption up there, Dave, there were yeah, oh my lord,
10:50
Speaker 1: you know some of the stories that we heard up
10:52
Speaker 1: in the Hamptons. You know, because I had no I
10:55
Speaker 1: had not taken a look at the depth and breadth.
10:58
Speaker 1: You know, I cover cases from well you and I
11:00
Speaker 1: cover cases from all over America, all over the world. Okay,
11:05
Speaker 1: and when we got up into kind of the granular detail.
11:09
Speaker 1: And I've been on these task force before, all right,
11:11
Speaker 1: when it comes to cereal serial crimes, and particularly back
11:17
Speaker 1: in my day, many times the left hand doesn't know
11:21
Speaker 1: what the right hand's doing. I think probably one of
11:23
Speaker 1: the best portrayals of this in media is if you
11:29
Speaker 1: go and you watch the movie Zodiac, where you've got
11:33
Speaker 1: multiple police departments and this is back in the seventies,
11:37
Speaker 1: where they're working cases that might have some similarities, and
11:41
Speaker 1: I still don't I still don't buy into that every
11:43
Speaker 1: one of those homicides is completely connected. I'm chasing rabbits here,
11:49
Speaker 1: but I'm just trying to make the point that with
11:51
Speaker 1: a task force, particularly if you add it's multi jurisdictional,
11:54
Speaker 1: you've got one group of people that are let's just
11:57
Speaker 1: say there are morals are dubious at best, that that
12:03
Speaker 1: that throws such a wrench into an investigation, a series
12:07
Speaker 1: of investigations that are so very complex day because if
12:12
Speaker 1: you just look at the remains, you've got remains that
12:15
Speaker 1: are in various states of decay. You've got remains that
12:19
Speaker 1: have not just they're not just you're not just dealing
12:24
Speaker 1: with anti mortem trauma. You're talking about post mortem trauma
12:28
Speaker 1: because you've got some dismemberment going on, so you've got
12:31
Speaker 1: all of these layers of complicated and you know, and
12:35
Speaker 1: then you throw it into this really wet water environment, right,
12:39
Speaker 1: you know, so how much it's not like you've got
12:41
Speaker 1: like a it's not like John Wayne Gacy where you've
12:43
Speaker 1: got all of the bodies buried beneath the house, right,
12:46
Speaker 1: and you can go there and there's like that one
12:49
Speaker 1: concentration and you begin to work that. I'm not saying
12:52
Speaker 1: that was easy for those guys back in the seventies.
12:54
Speaker 1: How I think you get to just yeah, or my
12:57
Speaker 1: drift as to where I'm going here.
12:59
Speaker 2: And that was I'm glad you did, because with what
13:02
Speaker 2: we're dealing with today, with Peaches and with Tanya and Tatiana,
13:06
Speaker 2: a mother and daughter, a twenty six year old mom,
13:08
Speaker 2: a military veteran and her two year old toddler, they
13:14
Speaker 2: were lumped together, unidentified, but still lumped as possibly part
13:19
Speaker 2: of this. And that's why I think of Shannon Gilbert
13:22
Speaker 2: because I think without the investigation, without her family, none
13:26
Speaker 2: of the other stuff would have come to the forefront,
13:28
Speaker 2: because there wouldn't have been any pressure but because of
13:31
Speaker 2: Shannon Gilbert's family and the breaking of this case, it
13:37
Speaker 2: allows for the justification. Now, just spend the money to
13:41
Speaker 2: identify these other remains and clear them, either get them
13:44
Speaker 2: as part of this or out of it. And thankfully
13:49
Speaker 2: I looked over this case. Thankfully, Joe, that the the
13:53
Speaker 2: technology and the people that wheeled it. It's amazing, I mean,
14:00
Speaker 2: flat out amazing how they were able to identify Tanya
14:04
Speaker 2: Jackson and Tatiana and by the way, identify not through
14:11
Speaker 2: them directly, indirectly. There was actually an ad in a
14:14
Speaker 2: paper in Mobile, Alabama, Joe when they were breaking it down,
14:20
Speaker 2: and I'm not kidding you when I tell you that
14:22
Speaker 2: they came back with a name, but it was somebody
14:25
Speaker 2: who had died before I was born.
14:29
Speaker 1: Wow.
14:29
Speaker 3: Think about that for a minute.
14:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how and that's where this science goes. That
14:35
Speaker 2: they're able to get this piece of genetic you know,
14:39
Speaker 2: this DNA, and they're able to determine that this is
14:43
Speaker 2: related to this person that died in nineteen sixty three
14:47
Speaker 2: and they found it on a body in nineteen ninety seven. Yeah,
14:51
Speaker 2: and that immediately I'm thinking, now I know why I
14:55
Speaker 2: didn't spend more time in math and science, because this
14:59
Speaker 2: blows my mind. I can't figure it out. I can't
15:01
Speaker 2: even I can't digest it without you know.
15:03
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and it does become it it enters onto
15:07
Speaker 1: the exponential plane here of thinking, you know, because it
15:10
Speaker 1: is quite complex. However, I've got to tell you something.
15:17
Speaker 1: Complexity in the world that we're living in now is
15:23
Speaker 1: not quite as daunting as it might have been in
15:27
Speaker 1: the past, particularly when it goes to our friends at
15:34
Speaker 1: authoring laboratories many years ago. Dave, I gotta tell you
15:54
Speaker 1: the story because I've told other people. I just I
15:56
Speaker 1: have to put it on this public forum right now
16:00
Speaker 1: to give you an idea about how tattoos help, or
16:06
Speaker 1: how they used to help. Even More, it seems like,
16:08
Speaker 1: you know, everyone has a tattoo. Now they're not as
16:11
Speaker 1: sexy as they used to be. Necessarily, they're not unique,
16:14
Speaker 1: you know. But I had a case, Dave, you'll appreciate this.
16:19
Speaker 1: I had a case of a fellow who was a
16:21
Speaker 1: Native American and he had come to New Orleans with
16:25
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to mention the motorcycle club, but
16:28
Speaker 1: it is one that is quite notorious. Had come to
16:31
Speaker 1: New Orleans and he was in the back of a
16:35
Speaker 1: pickup truck and he had been dropping acid and they
16:39
Speaker 1: were traveling down this thoroughfare and in the midst of
16:45
Speaker 1: he's standing up in the back of the people witness this.
16:48
Speaker 1: He's standing up in the back of the pickup truck.
16:51
Speaker 1: And do you remember, like those nineteen seventies pickup trucks
16:54
Speaker 1: that had the four wheel drives that had those gigantic
16:58
Speaker 1: roll bars on the back, you know, in the bed
17:00
Speaker 1: with the big fog lights. That truck had one. This
17:04
Speaker 1: rocket scientist decides to pitch himself over the side at
17:08
Speaker 1: fifty five miles per hour. Okay, well he doesn't. He
17:13
Speaker 1: doesn't pop up like a you know, some kind of
17:15
Speaker 1: stunt roll that you would have seen on the television
17:17
Speaker 1: show Man X or something.
17:18
Speaker 3: You know.
17:19
Speaker 1: He yeah, boy, that's a reference from the past, right Hey,
17:24
Speaker 1: it does mounts Man. Yeah, Mike connors Man. Well, he's dead.
17:30
Speaker 1: So we bring him in to do the autopsy. And
17:33
Speaker 1: he is dressed. And I'm not talking about a Weekend
17:35
Speaker 1: Warrior biker here. This guy is. This guy is serious.
17:39
Speaker 1: You know, you can tell. He's got dirty jeans on.
17:41
Speaker 1: He's got the engineer boots on that you see. You know,
17:44
Speaker 1: the old engineer boots and black T shirts Harley T shirt.
17:48
Speaker 1: What else right? And Dave, I took off his boots
17:54
Speaker 1: in the morgue as I'm undressing his body, take your
17:58
Speaker 1: socks off, and I noticed something on the dorsum of
18:02
Speaker 1: his right foot that will stay with me forever and ever.
18:06
Speaker 1: It was a tattoo. And on the the tattoo itself
18:10
Speaker 1: was shaped like a toe tag, a full sized totag.
18:17
Speaker 1: And he even had a string. It had a hole,
18:22
Speaker 1: a hole that was part of the tattoo, and it
18:25
Speaker 1: involved a string string went down tied around his big
18:29
Speaker 1: toe with a bow. Somebody had done a lot. And
18:32
Speaker 1: what a painful place to get a tattoo right on
18:34
Speaker 1: top of your foot. And in the in the lines
18:39
Speaker 1: on the on the top of the you know, on
18:43
Speaker 1: the on the faux toe tag tattooed on his foot.
18:48
Speaker 1: It had his full name, his date of birth, and
18:50
Speaker 1: in big letters below it it said d O A.
18:56
Speaker 1: That's one of the ways we got that body identified.
19:00
Speaker 3: All right, My gosh, I want a tattoo. I might
19:05
Speaker 3: get that that's brilliant.
19:07
Speaker 1: It is kind of brilliant. But yeah, I mean, I've
19:10
Speaker 1: seen it all with tattoos. But you know, there was
19:12
Speaker 1: a guy I used to work with, a forensic pathologist
19:15
Speaker 1: who at the time he was regarded and I know
19:17
Speaker 1: people don't think this is a thing, but he was
19:21
Speaker 1: regarded as in the post mortem world, in the forensic
19:25
Speaker 1: pathology world, as one of the leading experts of tattoos
19:28
Speaker 1: in our world. And the reason that's important is because
19:31
Speaker 1: of identification. People don't understand that in the old days,
19:35
Speaker 1: if you were going to be a tattoo artist, and
19:39
Speaker 1: this is long before there were tattoo shops on every corner,
19:42
Speaker 1: you know, you had to sit at the feet of
19:48
Speaker 1: a master, right and they had, like they have their
19:51
Speaker 1: own genealogies, Like I trained under this person and this
19:54
Speaker 1: person and this person and the guy the pathologist that
19:58
Speaker 1: I'm referring to. It had actually gone to this guy
20:00
Speaker 1: that was considered a master that worked up in Baltimore,
20:03
Speaker 1: and he had a gigantic disarticulated skeleton that was tattooed
20:07
Speaker 1: down one side of his leg from like his ribcage
20:11
Speaker 1: all the way down to his ankle. And this guy
20:13
Speaker 1: had to work on it forever and ever. Wow, but
20:15
Speaker 1: this guy knew his way around tattoos. He could look
20:17
Speaker 1: at a tattoo and say, okay, this comes from this
20:19
Speaker 1: particular artist. This is a point of origin. And before
20:23
Speaker 1: we use things like DNA, we try to use anything
20:26
Speaker 1: we could to get bodies identified. But Dave, when we
20:29
Speaker 1: think about this case, yeah.
20:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, you would have used anything. It was still the
20:35
Speaker 2: cross section of using DNA. I mean, I'm sure that
20:39
Speaker 2: you were identifying certain things with DNA, but we're only
20:41
Speaker 2: what two and a half years after OJ and that's
20:44
Speaker 2: when most of us learned our basic science on DNA. Yes,
20:48
Speaker 2: people of our generation anyway, outside of you, you know,
20:52
Speaker 2: normal people. But anyway, he give me far too much.
20:55
Speaker 2: Greatit front, I said. June twenty eighth, nineteen ninety seven,
20:59
Speaker 2: a man and his daughter out for a stroll in
21:01
Speaker 2: Hempstead Lake State Park in Lakeview, New York, discover the remains.
21:06
Speaker 2: They don't discover an entire body. We're talking about a head,
21:11
Speaker 2: both arms, both legs below the knee, all gone, severed, gone.
21:17
Speaker 2: The torso is found in a rubber made container, along
21:21
Speaker 2: with a red towel and a floral pillow case. It's
21:25
Speaker 2: on the west side of Lake Drive. I'm going to
21:27
Speaker 2: assume since that identifier was included in everything. I saw
21:32
Speaker 2: that for those of you in that area of Lakeview,
21:34
Speaker 2: New York, that means something. I know that oftentimes a
21:38
Speaker 2: west side of this or that means something.
21:40
Speaker 3: So there you go.
21:41
Speaker 2: But they couldn't identify what they had, and so as
21:46
Speaker 2: they're investigating, they find this very unique tattoo. It's of
21:53
Speaker 2: a peach. And it's not just any peach, it's not
21:57
Speaker 2: just something stamped. It's an actual artist that has done
22:01
Speaker 2: some seriously good work. And in trying to identify the person,
22:07
Speaker 2: the woman who they found parts of they run an ad.
22:11
Speaker 2: Detectives have to run an ad in a national tattoo magazine.
22:17
Speaker 2: They take a picture of the about and the way
22:19
Speaker 2: it was explained to me, it was about two inch
22:20
Speaker 2: square two inches two inches, that's it. And they take
22:24
Speaker 2: a picture of the tattoo. It's a peach with a
22:28
Speaker 2: bite taken out of it, some juice drops, and they
22:32
Speaker 2: post this in this tattoo magazine nationwide, and sure enough,
22:38
Speaker 2: a tattoo artist in Connecticut by the name of Steve
22:43
Speaker 2: Cullen breaks the case because not only does he say
22:48
Speaker 2: that's my work, he remembers the person, he remembers who
22:53
Speaker 2: they were with. He remembers what they were talking about
22:57
Speaker 2: and what he was told, and it was all of
23:00
Speaker 2: that information. Joseph's got Morgan that the woman is in
23:05
Speaker 2: Connecticut getting this tattoos. She's a young black woman. She's
23:09
Speaker 2: on the outs with her significant other. They've had an argument.
23:13
Speaker 2: So she's not in New York where she normally works
23:15
Speaker 2: and lives. She's in Connecticut with family. I mean, that's
23:18
Speaker 2: a lot of information from a tattoo guy.
23:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. It's and listen, that was not unusual.
23:25
Speaker 1: You could go like both of the offices that I
23:28
Speaker 1: worked in, we had a big book of unidentified flyers
23:33
Speaker 1: that would be processed and you would see like certain
23:38
Speaker 1: police departments would send these things out, you know, and
23:40
Speaker 1: you would get them periodically, get them over. I think
23:43
Speaker 1: they called it, what was it, hang on It was
23:46
Speaker 1: a fact a telefax or whatever it was where you
23:49
Speaker 1: got these clearer images back then. And they would have
23:52
Speaker 1: and I know people have seen these. They would have
23:54
Speaker 1: images of things like identifying marks. You would see scars,
23:58
Speaker 1: pictures of scars, say, you'd see tattoos. Even I've seen
24:04
Speaker 1: dental demonstrations before, like teeth that have certain caps or
24:08
Speaker 1: crowns that are unique posted on there, and it's like
24:11
Speaker 1: it's almost like a what's it called, you know, be
24:16
Speaker 1: on the lookout kind of a BOLO for this individual
24:21
Speaker 1: if they come through your office. And I think that
24:25
Speaker 1: out of all the years that that I worked, I
24:29
Speaker 1: think that maybe we found two of those flyers that
24:33
Speaker 1: turned back, you know, to one to a particular case
24:36
Speaker 1: that we were working. And it's not that it's not
24:38
Speaker 1: that they don't work, it's just that they were kind
24:40
Speaker 1: of taking a shotgun approach and you know, pushing these
24:43
Speaker 1: things out. But you know, Dave, with that information, that
24:47
Speaker 1: is monumental because you can take whatever kind of biological
24:52
Speaker 1: data that you have remaining and you can begin to
24:57
Speaker 1: source it. Right. You know, we we think about, well,
25:01
Speaker 1: we want to try to retain this so that we
25:03
Speaker 1: can go back maybe in the future if technology provides
25:08
Speaker 1: a way where we can actually begin to understand who
25:12
Speaker 1: this person might be genetically. Wow, And that's kind of
25:15
Speaker 1: difficult because you know, beforehand, you know, before we had
25:19
Speaker 1: you know, before we had a database with sex offenders
25:24
Speaker 1: and that sort of thing, which is very specific. You know,
25:27
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, well they're not on the list, you know,
25:29
Speaker 1: let's dismiss this. But now the world, the world that
25:33
Speaker 1: we live in now is this huge matrix. You know,
25:37
Speaker 1: we've gone from zero to one thousand now miles per
25:41
Speaker 1: hour relative to what you can do with the slightest
25:43
Speaker 1: bit of biological data. And then you couple that, you know,
25:47
Speaker 1: a few years later after these remains are found in
25:52
Speaker 1: this plastic container, which, by the way, the state park
25:55
Speaker 1: is unlike the other Gilgo Beach cases. Saying that the beach.
26:01
Speaker 1: Now I'm not saying it's a long ways from the beach.
26:03
Speaker 1: I remember what I said earlier about geographic familiarity. This
26:07
Speaker 1: is a place that slightly is still on Long Island,
26:11
Speaker 1: is slightly Inland, Okay, And it is a state park.
26:14
Speaker 1: And there was a pond there, Okay, within the boundaries
26:18
Speaker 1: of the state park. And that's where this thing was found,
26:22
Speaker 1: this tub containing her remains and this pillow case and
26:26
Speaker 1: what was it was pillow case and it.
26:28
Speaker 2: Was well it said there was a red towel, blanket,
26:32
Speaker 2: and then there was the floral pillow case. I always
26:35
Speaker 2: found that fascinating that. Okay, if you're a criminal, why
26:39
Speaker 2: would you leave something that is so specific? You know,
26:42
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm just kind of curious a floral pillow case.
26:45
Speaker 3: I wouldn't know what that means.
26:46
Speaker 2: But I most of the women I've ever met or
26:49
Speaker 2: had a conversation with in my life that were born women,
26:52
Speaker 2: they would know it. They would recognize them. Oh yeah,
26:55
Speaker 2: you get that at you know whatever store. I mean,
26:57
Speaker 2: they know that stuff.
26:58
Speaker 1: Well, you look at just the floor pattern on that
27:00
Speaker 1: pillow case, and if it's got a tag inside of it,
27:03
Speaker 1: that's something that can in fact be tracked down. And
27:06
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people out there that work
27:07
Speaker 1: in fabrics and textiles in forensics. They that's you know,
27:11
Speaker 1: that's their residential you know, they make their money doing
27:15
Speaker 1: those sorts of things. FBI has got an incredible database
27:17
Speaker 1: for that sort of thing. Yeah, it's it's mind blowing
27:20
Speaker 1: when you think about it, and you think about those
27:22
Speaker 1: tags that are specific identifiers, and it seems like an
27:25
Speaker 1: odd thing to leave behind because when you think pillow case. Now,
27:29
Speaker 1: there have been times in my life where I have
27:31
Speaker 1: had a mess at the house. I'm thinking dogs right
27:34
Speaker 1: now or children throwing up, and I'm going to grab
27:37
Speaker 1: the first thing that I can put my hands on.
27:39
Speaker 1: If you got a linen closet where the towels are
27:42
Speaker 1: all dirty. Oh, here's a pillow case. I grab it
27:44
Speaker 1: and I clean up with that. I think the thing
27:47
Speaker 1: here is to try to understand perhaps what was the
27:51
Speaker 1: utility of the pillow case. If it's floral in pattern,
27:54
Speaker 1: I can't imagine that that would be something that would
27:56
Speaker 1: be used in a hotel or a motel. You know,
27:58
Speaker 1: you would think they'd either be white or beige. They're
28:00
Speaker 1: not going to have a pattern to them. And then
28:03
Speaker 1: you go to this other item that's contained in there,
28:06
Speaker 1: and what's contained on within the fabric of these things
28:10
Speaker 1: as well? Is there not just potentially the victims DNA?
28:14
Speaker 1: Is there some kind of other DNA that's there that
28:17
Speaker 1: belongs to someone else? You know, Because look, she's been
28:21
Speaker 1: down for a while, Dave, and she's inside the torso
28:25
Speaker 1: is inside of this container, you're going to have a
28:28
Speaker 1: body that is greatly degraded. And one of the things
28:30
Speaker 1: that you and I talk about many times is not
28:35
Speaker 1: only do you have blood that results as a result
28:37
Speaker 1: of either kind of seepage or maybe even trauma, but
28:41
Speaker 1: you also get decompositional fluid as well. And it's kind
28:44
Speaker 1: of complex. There's not a lot that you can derive
28:48
Speaker 1: from it. Many times, so I know the inquiry minds
28:51
Speaker 1: want to know. I'd want to know if there were
28:53
Speaker 1: any kind of stained patterns, perhaps on the pillar case
28:56
Speaker 1: in particular, it's harder to pick that up on a towel.
28:58
Speaker 1: But let's just say, for instance, if somebody had been shot,
29:01
Speaker 1: for instance, or maybe the pill case was used to
29:05
Speaker 1: facilitate a suffocation you know, who knows, or maybe to
29:11
Speaker 1: kind of blind this person as they were being kidnapped
29:14
Speaker 1: as well. But why would the pill case be separated
29:17
Speaker 1: from the head, Because it's weird. We only have a
29:20
Speaker 1: torso we do not have a head. We don't have
29:23
Speaker 1: any of the appendages. I think below the knee, right
29:28
Speaker 1: miss at this point.
29:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, below the knee, you're missing, and you're missing the arms. Head.
29:33
Speaker 2: And here's the other part of this. Okay. That discovery
29:37
Speaker 2: is in June of ninety seven, and it stops there
29:42
Speaker 2: until April eleventh of twenty eleven. That's when police discovered dismembered,
29:49
Speaker 2: skeletal human remains inside a plastic bag near Jones Beach
29:54
Speaker 2: State Park. The victim was dubbed Jane Doe number three.
30:00
Speaker 2: You mentioned the numbers a little bit ago because they
30:02
Speaker 2: had so many things going on in this area. It's
30:06
Speaker 2: just what a job. In December twenty sixteen, Peaches and
30:12
Speaker 2: Jane Doe number three were positively identified through DNA analysis
30:18
Speaker 2: as being the same person. Now they didn't identify the person,
30:23
Speaker 2: they merely had Okay, we know that Peaches found in
30:29
Speaker 2: ninety seven. This is the rest, This is more of her.
30:32
Speaker 2: Which again, now I there are certain aspects to investigations
30:36
Speaker 2: that go beyond the normal reach. And I think about
30:40
Speaker 2: this and I'm thinking there are people who are laying
30:43
Speaker 2: awake at night to this day because of what they've
30:47
Speaker 2: had to learn. And tying those two together, separated by
30:52
Speaker 2: fourteen years, and then add in the fact that now
30:56
Speaker 2: we also have DNA analysis that led to the identification
31:03
Speaker 2: of Peaches as the mother of baby Dough. She was
31:09
Speaker 2: found wearing gold jewelry similar to that of her daughter.
31:13
Speaker 2: You've got a body with no head, no arms, no
31:16
Speaker 2: legs from the knees down, but you've got jewelry that
31:19
Speaker 2: ties Peaches to baby Dough found fourteen years later.
31:26
Speaker 1: Yikes, what a tie back. And look to you know,
31:31
Speaker 1: to jump ahead slightly, we have these remains that are
31:35
Speaker 1: found and here's where the rub is. I think, what
31:39
Speaker 1: are the odds, Dave, what are the odds that you're
31:43
Speaker 1: going to find disarticulated remains and we're talking these extremities,
31:50
Speaker 1: these missing extremities, and a baby that are geographically adjacent
31:59
Speaker 1: to some of these cases that are actually tied back
32:02
Speaker 1: to Huremann allegedly. You know, what are the odds? You know,
32:07
Speaker 1: people think that, you know, Long Island is like it's
32:10
Speaker 1: an island. It's no, it's not. It's a it's kind
32:12
Speaker 1: of a vast area. You know, when you get out there.
32:15
Speaker 1: The idea that you would have remains that are connected
32:22
Speaker 1: obviously to the torso found in the tupperware Inland, you
32:26
Speaker 1: would find these remains immediately adjacent to the remains that
32:32
Speaker 1: have been tied back to the Gilgo homicides is absolutely mondoid,
32:54
Speaker 1: you know, Dave, Again, we're back on this topic of dismemberment,
32:58
Speaker 1: which I don't think that we'll ever get away from.
33:01
Speaker 1: But there are are multiple types of dismemberment and I
33:04
Speaker 1: think that with Peaches, her case could either fall into
33:10
Speaker 1: one or two categories. There is a category that is
33:15
Speaker 1: actually referred to as defensive dismemberment, and what that means
33:19
Speaker 1: is that you have a human remain that is unmanageable. Okay,
33:27
Speaker 1: so you're going to take take the human remains apart,
33:30
Speaker 1: and most of the time it's characterized by taking the
33:33
Speaker 1: head off, the arms, and the legs, and then you
33:36
Speaker 1: package separately, okay, because it makes the body manageable. Then
33:41
Speaker 1: there is kind of a and that's called defensive dismemberment,
33:47
Speaker 1: and there's a second one that arises from a type
33:52
Speaker 1: of sexual gratification and it's referred to as offensive dismemberment.
33:57
Speaker 1: Now there's like, I don't know, there's about six of
33:59
Speaker 1: the things that are out there.
34:01
Speaker 3: Wow.
34:02
Speaker 1: But with those remains, the remains are kind of sexualized,
34:06
Speaker 1: and you know, I think back to to the case again,
34:13
Speaker 1: you know, I know I talked about it a lot,
34:14
Speaker 1: but the mother up in the mother up in Seattle
34:18
Speaker 1: that was dismembered by the tender date and she was
34:21
Speaker 1: deposited in multiple trash trash receptacles. Thinking about that, and
34:26
Speaker 1: I still to this day believed that was a sexualized dismemberment,
34:29
Speaker 1: you know, that took those in that case.
34:30
Speaker 2: I think of the Black Dahlia when you think about
34:33
Speaker 2: that type of dismemberment where she was killed and her
34:37
Speaker 2: body was positioned in such a way to cause the
34:40
Speaker 2: most shock, which did you know.
34:42
Speaker 1: What that's referred to as that's called a communication dismemberment.
34:47
Speaker 1: And let me give you an example of that. That's
34:50
Speaker 1: uh and I think that there's probably some sexualization with that,
34:52
Speaker 1: but that's if you think about if you've ever seen
34:55
Speaker 1: these images, and I hope that you haven't exposed yourself
34:58
Speaker 1: to it. I've had to look at them. But these
35:00
Speaker 1: images quite famously down in Mexico where they will almost
35:06
Speaker 1: trust up a human being, tie them off of a
35:09
Speaker 1: bridge and you might have so all of them hanging
35:11
Speaker 1: in one place and the heads are gone. That's sending
35:14
Speaker 1: a message. That's called communication dismemberment. Okay, so you've got
35:18
Speaker 1: these these different little nuanced things. I hate using the term,
35:22
Speaker 1: but these kind of and I don't know, you know,
35:25
Speaker 1: you look at you look at the case with Peaches.
35:30
Speaker 1: Her body is the body that was uh defiled if
35:36
Speaker 1: you will, post mortem, all right, because you're talking about
35:40
Speaker 1: the abuse of a corpse at this point in time.
35:42
Speaker 1: But yet this little angel seemingly she's intact and she
35:49
Speaker 1: has found adjacent Oh god, this is so horrible. As
35:53
Speaker 1: it turns out, she's found adjacent to her mother's appendages. Okay,
36:02
Speaker 1: along with these other bodies. And again that's you know,
36:05
Speaker 1: it's just one of these weird little twists that comes
36:07
Speaker 1: comes along every now and then, I think.
36:09
Speaker 2: October eighth, twenty twenty two, the Mobile, Alabama Police Department
36:15
Speaker 2: announced on its official Facebook page that the FBI was
36:20
Speaker 2: seeking relatives and friends of Elijah Liije Howell or Howard,
36:27
Speaker 2: who was alive between nineteen twenty seven and nineteen sixty three.
36:32
Speaker 2: All Right, a guy that lived in Pritchard, Alabama with
36:36
Speaker 2: his wife Carrie, but died in Mobile, Alabama in nineteen
36:40
Speaker 2: sixty three while living with Mss Lily May Wiggins Packer.
36:45
Speaker 2: The FBI has been able to break this guy's entire
36:49
Speaker 2: life down. But again, they put this out in twenty
36:52
Speaker 2: twenty two. Joe, at that point, he'd already been dead
36:56
Speaker 2: fifty years, yeah, I mean sixty years.
37:00
Speaker 3: Yeah.
37:01
Speaker 2: So that's that, I guess is what is the most
37:04
Speaker 2: shocking to me. That they're looking for relatives of a
37:08
Speaker 2: man that died before I was born. That's the part
37:12
Speaker 2: that this investigation goes that deep.
37:15
Speaker 1: Yeah. Let me put it to you this way. Do
37:17
Speaker 1: you think they were on the scent at that point
37:19
Speaker 1: in time.
37:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, buddy, this is not a shot in the dark.
37:23
Speaker 3: That's the thing.
37:24
Speaker 2: It's like they knew, Okay, we've got this. We've just
37:28
Speaker 2: got to tie the rest of it together.
37:30
Speaker 1: You know.
37:31
Speaker 2: It's you know what what the Coburger thing where they
37:33
Speaker 2: knew that the DNA that they found on that the
37:39
Speaker 2: knife sheath button snap, yeah, yeah, the buttons that this
37:46
Speaker 2: that that didn't belong to the sun. You know, this
37:50
Speaker 2: is they didn't tie it directly to Coburger. They tried
37:54
Speaker 2: to do his dad and then they had to go
37:57
Speaker 2: and get Coburger's own stuff. So it's that's the part
38:01
Speaker 2: that gets me, you know, so befuddled sometimes. And that's
38:05
Speaker 2: where this one comes in again. You're talking about we
38:08
Speaker 2: want the relatives of somebody that was dead in nineteen
38:10
Speaker 2: sixty three to help us solve a crime that didn't
38:13
Speaker 2: happen until nineteen ninety seven, and we didn't even have
38:17
Speaker 2: an idea about it until twenty twenty two. Again, so
38:22
Speaker 2: that's the part that gives me from the science, I
38:24
Speaker 2: guess yeah, it.
38:25
Speaker 1: Does, and we have to think about you know, as
38:29
Speaker 1: it turns out, when the identifications are done, both on
38:37
Speaker 1: Tanya and Tatiana you know, once they got the genetics
38:42
Speaker 1: back and you know, Dave, that they were able to
38:45
Speaker 1: determine that Tatiana had actually been born March seventeenth, nineteen
38:52
Speaker 1: ninety five, in Texas. Well, guess what. Guess what mama
38:59
Speaker 1: was doing in nineteen ninety five. That was her last
39:03
Speaker 1: year of enlistment in the Army and she was stationed
39:06
Speaker 1: in Texas at that particular time. She had done hitches
39:08
Speaker 1: I think in Georgia and South Carolina during her time
39:11
Speaker 1: period there, so you get that tied back. I found
39:16
Speaker 1: an article on and I recommend anybody, particularly veterans out there,
39:19
Speaker 1: if you don't read military dot Com, you're doing yourself
39:22
Speaker 1: a disservice. You need to read it. They did a
39:24
Speaker 1: great write up on this case because you know, this victim,
39:29
Speaker 1: she is an Army veteran, and you know, they kind
39:32
Speaker 1: of did a deep dive there, So a big shout
39:34
Speaker 1: out to them. But you know, interestingly enough, Tatiana was
39:40
Speaker 1: born in Texas, and Dave, the most revelatory moment in
39:45
Speaker 1: this whole case actually leads us back to Texas and
39:49
Speaker 1: back to our friends at othrom in the Woodlands in Texas,
39:52
Speaker 1: just north of Houston and they were able to put
39:56
Speaker 1: names not just with one, but with two.
40:00
Speaker 2: Now Dave, it's again, Joe. I'm dumbfounded by what they're
40:09
Speaker 2: capable of doing now because now because of again now
40:13
Speaker 2: going back to gilgam because the investigation that was going
40:18
Speaker 2: on up there, trying to eliminate or put in the
40:22
Speaker 2: you know, to we're bringing this. We've got a mom
40:25
Speaker 2: and daughter team here. We've got to identify them. Do
40:28
Speaker 2: they belong in this group or not?
40:31
Speaker 3: They do not.
40:33
Speaker 2: And after they get identifications done, they're able to track
40:37
Speaker 2: this down to a man, Andrew Dikes, and he's in Florida.
40:44
Speaker 2: Andrew Dikes is actually the biological father of Tatiana Marie Dykes,
40:51
Speaker 2: the two year old little girl found in twenty eleven,
40:56
Speaker 2: the daughter of Tanya Jackson.
41:01
Speaker 1: You think about this and Diykes, I think that when
41:07
Speaker 1: Tanya went missing, I think that Dikes was roughly in
41:11
Speaker 1: his thirties. Well, I'm happy to say at this point
41:15
Speaker 1: in Tom Dykes is now in custody. That's one of
41:20
Speaker 1: the reasons, you know, we wanted to present this case today.
41:23
Speaker 1: He's now in custody. He's waiting to be extradited back
41:27
Speaker 1: up to New York because they've tied this in and
41:29
Speaker 1: you really said it. I mean, you hit it right
41:32
Speaker 1: on the head. This is going to be a domestic
41:34
Speaker 1: related event. There's no doubt in my former military mind
41:38
Speaker 1: about this. I think that that is that is going
41:42
Speaker 1: to be the case. And we still don't have all
41:47
Speaker 1: of the piece as yet, we don't know everything. We
41:51
Speaker 1: still don't have a cause of death at this point, Tom,
41:55
Speaker 1: and I don't know that we necessarily ever will because
42:01
Speaker 1: once the defense attorneys get involved in this, if this
42:05
Speaker 1: guy pleads not guilty, I think that that could be
42:09
Speaker 1: a gigantic mystery. You know that leads who knows where.
42:13
Speaker 1: But I can tell you this, one of the biggest
42:17
Speaker 1: mysteries of all has been solved because now, just like
42:23
Speaker 1: I always say, if you want answers, find out who
42:28
Speaker 1: the dead are, because that bit of data will lead
42:31
Speaker 1: you back to where you need to be. And if
42:34
Speaker 1: you're really interested, I mean truly, truly interested. You know
42:38
Speaker 1: a lot of people say they want to help. I
42:41
Speaker 1: urge each and every person within the sound of my
42:45
Speaker 1: voice to reach out to our friends at AUTHORM. And
42:49
Speaker 1: this is how you do it. You go to DNA
42:53
Speaker 1: solves dot com and they have an entire list of
43:00
Speaker 1: cases that they are currently working. They could be cases
43:05
Speaker 1: that you feel some kind of affinity for. Maybe geographically
43:09
Speaker 1: you're located near where one of these remains were found.
43:13
Speaker 1: You never know. One of the people that is unidentified
43:17
Speaker 1: could possibly be somebody that you know, or somebody that
43:20
Speaker 1: some of the relatives might live in proximity to you.
43:24
Speaker 1: If you want to help out with this, all you
43:26
Speaker 1: got to do is check out DNA Solves, because if
43:30
Speaker 1: you do that, they offer you an opportunity give as
43:33
Speaker 1: much as you can. They're not asking for huge chunks
43:36
Speaker 1: of money. You'd be great if you had some, but
43:39
Speaker 1: just a few bucks to push toward a specific case,
43:42
Speaker 1: and you can do that. I think. In the words
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Speaker 1: of retired homicide detective Lieutenant Vernon Gebreth, he has an
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Speaker 1: opening in his book called Practical Homicide Investigations, and it's
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Speaker 1: this little stamp that's inside of it. And anybody that's
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Speaker 1: ever been through any training and death investigation has read
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Speaker 1: this book. It's very simple. It says we do God's
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Speaker 1: work and that's the case here. You want to help out,
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Speaker 1: you want to help out, think about it. I'm Joseph
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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, and this is bodybags,