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Beyond Words - Maryam from Afghanistan · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well I'm thrilled to have one of our World Literacy Foundation youth ambassadors representing Afghanistan, Marianne, who is very, very thrilled to talk about the incredible work that they're doing there.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: She's a young leader from Afghanistan.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: She's worked as a senior human rights and gender officer with the Swedish Committee for Afghanistan in the Northeast region.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: She worked there until mid-July 2022.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: When working with SCA, she had the chance to connect with students and teachers in rural areas of Northern Eastern country, including students with disabilities.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Throughout her work, she realised how education affects the lives of individuals and communities in culture, social behaviour, domestic violence, and families' economic situations.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Especially the vulnerable people such as young girls, minorities, and people with disabilities.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Even medium-educated communities and cultures affect their behaviours.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's far different from the low-educated and uneducated communities.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Communities with medium or high number of children, girls and boys, at school tend to be more open, looking happier and have moderate religious thoughts rather than low-educated communities.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: You can find lower types of hard traditional practices such as forced marriage and early marriages in those communities too.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: She says, I observed it and felt it when field visiting different parts of the country.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: As she has a Bachelor of Economics with a first-class honours degree, she had the honour of offering a free English course to the young girls and boys who had passionate in learning the English language when she was a student at university.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, she's been operating at many levels, including opening a wonderful coffee shop.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: She established it in 2020 in the city of Talakan, which had a small library for children and adults.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: The books were collected by a voluntary campaign.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, the BBC made a report about her coffee shop.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: I enjoy loving history books and novels, she says.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: I love Persian poetry.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: I sometimes write my daily life too.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: I really would love to write a book someday.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, as the world spirals, the value of literacy, education, and words is very poignant.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you, Marianne, for joining us at the Beyond Words Literacy Podcast.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: We are so happy to have you join us to talk to us at this very critical and challenging time.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, clearly, literacy is critical in keeping people informed.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me how education has changed your life and what you'd like to see change.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I'm coming from a family that I was lucky to have a father who has always been a big supporter of me.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: And my father's passion for education has impacted my mother's as well.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because my mother is coming from a an a little conservative family.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I was living in the northeast of Afghanistan and in Tahar, and I don't remember that um during the school year I had no options.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like I say my mother was the one that it is usual in uh in Afghanistan that when you have guests, like we we usually had guests uh and all of this housework uh was done by my mother, but she never said us to like don't go to school or your course today and help me um for um for work in the house in in that society that uh going to school or pursuing education or career was a challenge for girls and sometimes problematic for them, but for me, luckily it was uh this journey was easier because of uh my family's support.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: And um I after finishing school I enrolled to the university and when I was in Search and Ford umster of my university, I was able to um I was able to have to help with some girls and and uh voice um for English course.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: It was like a kind of intermediate level, and um and I yeah, I when I was at my third year at university, I was able to have a job in with uh GIZ, it's a German organization.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it was pretty cool.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: So what you're saying, which is really interesting, you're saying that because your father was progressive and he was open to you being educated, that it allowed you to go to school and it gave you the opportunity to be educated.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: It was like when I was at school, my father was like, you have to go to the best school, you have to take the best courses, and uh I also did uh like it was not only the public school that I went to, I had me and all also my sisters had also private courses, like it was even mathematics or English course, and um you uh he was always saying you have to go to the best universities, like he was like calling not only you can uh go to universities in Afghanistan, but you can also try some scholarships or uh going to some universities abroad.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: So um he will he has been always open uh for us and supporting us.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's it's quite extraordinary, really, because I know how challenging it is for women to access education.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, did he meet or did you meet much resistance to that pursuit?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you think because you used private avenues or you went overseas that that helped you, I suppose, circumvent some of those issues?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you think, and also another point that was interesting is that your mother wasn't coming from your mother because she herself obviously hadn't also been access, had access to education.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: So what you're saying is it's entrenched sort of in the generations that women and girls don't need to be educated in that way for many people.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Is that correct?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um actually my mother um my mother uh unfortunately uh had not access to education.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: She just took some um you know uh some religious uh studies, but not because during uh when she was uh a child at school uh age, uh there was no school uh in their city.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: So um, but but because my father was open to education and uh had um supporter of education and yeah, my my it impacted my mother's mind as well.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: He sounds like quite an impressive man, your father.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds like he might have changed a whole generation, really.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: And today what we heard is like uh you know, I I I I have grown in a city that is in Nordist, and in the I actually uh it will there is always challenge and you know some uh practices in a society like Afghanistan, but what we heard what we hear now is that oh, it's very traditional people living here, and they have a problem with going to school or going to universities, or women should not work.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: It really hurts me because uh there are societies, there are uh people that may have some such opinions, but uh there are all they are all also people that who are supporters of their uh girls, their daughters, their children, and uh despite of this uh financial problems, they do anything to pave an opportunity for uh their children.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it really hurts when you see uh you have a system, people ruling that ban everything for to those people.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so right now I know that because obviously there was somewhat of a progressive approach um a few years back, but now there is um clearly a very strong position in Afghanistan that women and girls are forbidden from attending school and reading books.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Is that correct?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: And if so, is that across the whole of Afghanistan?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Is it in the area obviously where you grew up?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I know it's become a lot more hardline there.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: What's your perspective on that?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Currently, uh schools are banned everywhere, like um the whole country, uh like children in Afghanistan, they can go to school um up to sixth class, like we have up to 12th class, but um secondary schools, children and uh high school uh students cannot go to school.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's the whole country, unfortunately.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Previously we had uh some societies in some part of Afghanistan, mainly in south or some part of east.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um that uh this because of those um traditional practices and traditional ideas, they could not go to school.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: They um like families didn't allow their children to go to school, but it was changing.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh many organizations were working to change this norm and also the uh government, but now we have not only the cultural cultural problems and barriers, but it's now the system uh the odd ratives that don't allow um children to go to school.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, is it boys and girls or just girls?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Just girls, yeah, just girls.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: But girls cannot go to school, boys can go to school, but the curriculum and the systems that now we see in Afghanistan is uh really disturbing and harmful for the boys as well, because we it's it's now it's not the only it's not a problem that girls can go to school, but we have also problem with the curriculum, and that it seems that the whole education system collapsed, unfortunately.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh I don't think that our buys have also the same motivation as before to go to school, you know, it's kind of an apartheid, and in a family that um a boy can go to school and uh his her sister cannot go to school.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's incomprehensible from the West from this perspective.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's very hard to process that.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I suppose what it does is is, as we know, people who struggle with literacy, it's disempowering, they don't have information to combat, to take a stand, to take a position, to be informed.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is that your experience?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: And how long has this ban been in place?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Is it because I know that it was lifted at some point and then it was put back recently and about a year ago?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Was that?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because there was a, as you say, there were progressive uh elements making you know changes so that that this was lifted, but then it's come back.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so how have you seen the impact on the girls in your community?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, um the government was working to change the barriers.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was the former government.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: There was in the uh first year, I guess, there was some parts of Afghanistan that uh girls could go to school until high school.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was normal, but it was in few provinces, including uh Balh, Kundu, and North is in North region, and some uh a few provinces in the east and south, but it's it's um it changed, yeah.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's it changed it changed uh quickly.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: And when you speak to your friends and your um your compatriots and people that you you know um in your community, what's the impact of this restriction on literacy and reading and books and education?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's um it's really it's kind of like frustrating because uh now it's it's you know, children feel like they have new future.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: They are at uh their early age, like they are so young, and they have no idea what should they do with their life.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of in the places.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like they have no book to read, they have no places, and it's the social norms are all also very um hard for them.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like when children uh cannot go to school, they have to stay at home, they can't uh go to parks as well now, they cannot play at outside, so um it's it's really uh a hard condition.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Previously when children when children went to school, there were like some libraries, you know, children love to um read some stories, and but now it's it seems it's everything is banned for them because when you want to buy a book current currently because of this uh economic situation, um everyone cannot uh go to the store and buy books there.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it's and libraries are all also public libraries are uh close to the girls.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so you can't go into a public library.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a girl or a woman, you can't go into a public library and get a book.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's what you're saying.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: No, in my in my province, uh what my friend says no, they cannot go to the libraries.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's it's hard to even process that notion.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, now on that note, you know, you're a World Literacy Foundation ambassador, and we're very grateful for you being one because you've chosen to work to try and um, I suppose, give women and girls some small access to books.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me a bit about the secret library or the library that you're trying to facilitate and what sort of fear do you have around that and some of the women you're working with, because it requires courage in the face of quite a daunting uh, I suppose, covenant that's been placed.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: So tell me a little bit about that and how you're working with your um some of the other women on that.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's um the Afghanistan uh and the World Literacy Foundation ambassadors that are doing this project, this incredible project.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: And um plus uh I also um I I had in my in my coffee shop, I had a small library, so my it was distributed among my friends.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: So just to clarify, the the you had a coffee shop, your your coffee shop, you had a small library at the back that that the women could access and you would distribute it through the coffee shop, and the World Literacy Foundation are sort of trying to facilitate and support you.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Is that correct?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh World Literacy Foundation uh you want to distribute digital books and uh it's kind of um um another project, but what uh what uh I have done in my uh in my coffee shop, it was yes uh when I uh was running my coffee shop and when um after returning of Talon I had to close my coffee shop, but those books in the library were distributed among my friends so um they could read it, but now we are going to distribute digital books.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh because of this, all problems and banning of some injuries uh in Afghanistan, a lot of activities are uh banned, and uh now uh we as uh World Literacy Foundation ambassadors um work to um distribute digital books uh among our communities.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Which is a brilliant, brilliant solution because really um who thought the technology could be so impactful?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: But that's something that we've seen with the World Literacy Foundation that the digital books have got incredible traction because they can be distributed en masse, low cost, um, with access viral.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's quite extraordinary.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the technology is is is groundbreaking in terms of you know dealing with issues like bans on books, that that is very interesting.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Just coming back to your coffee shop and the secret library that you did have, uh how fearful were you and how brave were you, which it would appear quite courageous to do that.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: But it's um it's just uh like uh it was good that we saw that so what we should do with our books.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I for my uh it was distributed among my friends, and now it's fine.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we have um some call groups, and uh we say, okay, so um tell me the story of that book or what you have learned from that book.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: We just share our uh insights of the book with each other, and um it's recommended for the girls that they have access to books to share their insights with their families, like kind of stories or um their general insights or with their um share with their contacts because um now for this situation that's really frustrating and really hard.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: We should we should find some possible ways to to try to not stop reading.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, that's what you did.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: Did you um when you closed the cafe, was that in response to fear or the fact that you realized that things were changing rapidly and you needed to ensure that you weren't a target or in any way compromised?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's kind of um, you know, it's like it was not easy for us.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: It was really hard, and we knew it would be really like tougher if the coffee was open, and I felt really fear because you know those people are not the people that hurts you, but also your family, and I was working with any with some other girls that they were also not feeling safe and their families, so we had to close it because of our safety and our family safety.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: That makes a lot of sense, and in terms of the digital distribution, which you've continued to work with, how effective are you finding that as an alternative?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's it's really cool because of this situation due to the situation that uh access to books or hard books are not easy, and uh um having those books or all these programs uh is quite challenging.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: So the uh having digital books is in this situation is really effective because um you just um you just need to have a phone and an internet, not always, to just download the book.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: And when you are offline, you can be offline and just read it.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: So um and it isn't necessarily every girls or woman have uh the phone.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: One family member can have a phone and the whole family can use it.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I guess it's really uh in this situation it's a practical solution.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it helps many families to access to the book that they don't have.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's groundbreaking and it's extraordinary and it's so wonderful to hear technology being so effective.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: And for you yourself, how are you coping in this challenging time?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know there's been a shocking um earthquake in Afghanistan, which has affected many families.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's obviously there's the growing Middle East conflict at the moment.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: How are you finding and the importance of being informed for people that can't read or access information but then can't read it?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's really interesting to me whether it's emergency information, you know, when dealing with the earthquake, if then you can't read, you really can't read, you know, instructions to get out or instructions of how to find safety or even medical information.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, surely reading is a human right no one should be able to take away for that very reason.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: What's your thoughts around that?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because I keep thinking of these people who literally, you know, uh if there is a conflict or a challenge of the nature of the earthquake, then their resources are severely impacted by not being able to access or read them.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was a sh shocking news for us.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: What we uh experienced and saw in the wisdom of Afghanistan.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's really hard for the people and for us.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's you cannot focus.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's l literally, I it's for when I hear this all sad news, um whether it happens in Afghanistan or now we have conflicts in the Middle East, uh it's uh it's kind of double problem.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so sad and you cannot focus, you cannot help, you cannot be sometimes it's really hard to be optimistic about the future, about the situation and keep your hope alive.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um you cannot read, you cannot hear, you just like it's literally uh mind blowing and uh so devastating devastating it's very hard.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think those people in Herod.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, in those people in Herod lost everything.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I and we unfortunately have no powerful state or a system or government that could help those people, at least economically.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: They lost we lost many children, women, men there, and I really don't know, it's really tough.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's very tough in my heart, and and all our heart goes out to all of the Afghanistan victims of the earthquake and also to the victims of the Middle East conflict, but also at the end of the day, the power rests with information, education, and the capacity to read and understand.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that what you're doing as an ambassador is both brave and effective, and we are so grateful for you taking the time to talk to us at this very difficult time, and we just hope you stay safe, you stay strong and hopeful.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um thanks for having me.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: Absolute pleasure.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Stay safe and we'll stay in touch.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but uh I look forward to meeting you one day in person.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, I hope so too.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well at the World Literacy Foundation we believe in literacy is the foundation of lifelong learning and education.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: People who cannot read or write experience difficulties with simple everyday tasks, such as reading the label of a medicine bottle, filling in a job application, or understanding a traffic sign.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: When we help someone to acquire literacy skills, we're empowering them to access to better opportunities in life to break the poverty cycle.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's a global organization in Africa, Latin America, the United States, the United Kingdom and in Australia.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: The World Literacy Foundation is combination to ensure that every child that's a geographic location has the opportunity to acquire literacy skills and books to its full potential.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's time to Medicare Literacy 2040.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Reading that should just be basic light, not a privilege.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: So please, if you're interested, head to our website at the World Literacy Foundation to see what is happening globally, this extraordinary organisation, and we realise that there are 750 million people who cannot read and write.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: So see if you can contribute and make a difference.