Latest / Ducks Unlimited Podcast / Sporting Art & Shell Boxes: Collecting the History of Hunting (Ep 779)

Transcript

Sporting Art & Shell Boxes: Collecting the History of Hunting (Ep 779) · Ducks Unlimited Podcast

0:01
Lee Schulz: I think the most exciting thing maybe I ever bought at this show was an 1894 Laughlin and Rand calendar. And that it goes back probably twenty years. A good friend of mine was making jambalaya for lunch, and I left my room to go get a bowl of jambalaya. And in between my room and his, this is back at the pheasant run, I, I found this calendar in a room, and it was just a kind of dumb luck, you if will. Yeah. So that was probably the most memorable fun thing I ever found.
0:33
VO: Can we do a mic check, please? Everybody, welcome back to the Ducks Unlimited Podcast. I'm your host, doctor Mike Brasher. I'm your host, Katie Burke. I'm your host, doctor Jerad Henson. And I'm your host, Matt Harrison. Welcome to the Ducks Unlimited Podcast, the only podcast about all things waterfowl. From hunting insights to science based discussions about ducks, geese, and issues affecting waterfowl and wetlands conservation in North America. The DU Podcast, sponsored by Purina Pro Plan, the official performance dog food of Ducks Unlimited. Purina Pro Plan, always advancing. Also proudly sponsored by Bird Dog Whiskey and Cocktails. Whether you're winding down with your best friend or celebrating with your favorite crew, Bird Dog brings award winning flavor to every moment. Enjoy responsibly.
1:38
Katie Burke: Hi, everybody. Welcome to the Ducks Unlimited Podcast. I'm your host, Katie Burke. And today on this show, I'm here with Lee Shulz. Lee is a sporting art advertising collector.
1:48
Welcome to the show, Lee.
1:50
Lee Schulz: Thank you.
1:50
Katie Burke: So you are the first person we've done no. I have not done on a podcast. I haven't I thought I'd done shell boxes, but I have not. Well, I'm an art history background, so though I've been duck hunter and all that
2:01
Lee Schulz: Mhmm.
2:01
Katie Burke: I also have this love for art and art history. And then specifically, which I don't think I've ever even mentioned on it, my love in art is like depression era, like Americana.
2:13
Lee Schulz: Sure.
2:14
Katie Burke: And this is very much in that area. Absolutely. Yeah. So this is I love this stuff, and I'm really excited to get to talk about it. So thanks for
2:23
Lee Schulz: doing Yeah. You're very welcome. I'm excited too.
2:26
Katie Burke: Yeah. So we are here at the North American Decoy Collectors Show, so that is why we're in this setting. We are in your hotel room. Mhmm. That is the fun and unique thing about this show is the hotel basically turns into an antique mall for a few days, and everybody opens their rooms and sells and trades of their rooms.
2:45
Lee Schulz: That's right.
2:45
Katie Burke: That is where we are.
2:46
Lee Schulz: Great.
2:47
Katie Burke: It's really cool. So let's kind of go well, first before I go into that, how long have you been coming to the show and doing this?
2:55
Lee Schulz: I started coming to this show, which used to be held at the Pheasant Run-in in Saint Charles, Illinois. I started going to that show in about 1994, maybe '95, right around there.
3:07
Katie Burke: And were you going as just like an attendee or were you selling from that point?
3:12
Lee Schulz: Pretty much the first year or two just as attendee, and then after that I started selling.
3:18
Katie Burke: Okay. Yeah. So before we get into like why you collect what you collect, like how did you were you an outdoorsy kid? Like were you a hunter and all that?
3:28
Lee Schulz: Yeah. My family, my dad in particular, he was a very avid duck hunter
3:33
Katie Burke: Okay.
3:33
Lee Schulz: And upland game hunter and deer hunter.
3:36
Katie Burke: And where did you grow up?
3:37
Lee Schulz: West Central Minnesota. Okay. So it's kind of in my blood. Yeah. The outdoors, hunting, fishing.
3:45
It's something that just kind of helped me migrate into collecting the history behind the hunting and fishing.
3:52
Katie Burke: Yeah, so how did you decide, like, we've talked to mostly decoy guys here, so how did you decide like what you were interested in and how do you get I mean, I guess this one feels to me, I don't know, but for other people, but it feels more natural that you would get exposed to this stuff a little bit easier because it's not I don't know how to explain it,
4:11
Lee Schulz: Well, I think I understand your question.
4:13
Katie Burke: You know I'm Yeah.
4:14
Lee Schulz: How I got going is I've always been a collector. Okay. Ever since I was a little kid, I had the collector bug within me. When I was four years old, I was collecting rocks.
4:26
Katie Burke: Right.
4:26
Lee Schulz: You know, they were free.
4:27
Katie Burke: Yeah, I one of those at home.
4:29
Lee Schulz: Couldn't help but to collect rocks. Then I moved into pennies and nickels and dimes, and at some point in time, you know, I loved the outdoors, and I was brought up around antique furniture and those types and of I loved art, and when I kind of came to the realization that these companies produced all this stuff back the days, so to speak, I just kind of fell in love with it. Mhmm. And started to go on the hunt for for the next treasure. Yeah.
4:58
And that that took place about age 21 or 22
5:02
Katie Burke: Okay.
5:02
Lee Schulz: Yeah, when I pretty started collecting this. Yeah, was very young. Yeah. Compared to a lot of people, that's a young age
5:07
Katie Burke: to That's a young age to start. Yeah.
5:09
Lee Schulz: You know what I'm kind of made sense to me, and and I I've I've always had that collector bug. Yeah. So it just it just took off.
5:16
Katie Burke: Do you remember what, like, the first thing you've got?
5:18
Lee Schulz: You know, I bought a two piece shell box in an antique mall in West Central Minnesota over by Saint Cloud and that would have been about '19 I'm going to say '88 or '89 and from there I just kept going with it. Yeah. Bought a wood crate here and there out of the antique shops and malls, and didn't really know what I was doing, but know that I really liked it, and know that I wanted to keep pursuing it.
5:45
Katie Burke: Yeah.
5:45
Lee Schulz: And you know, thirty eight or thirty nine years later, here it is.
5:51
Katie Burke: No, it's interesting because we've talked about this, yeah, the artists behind it that do all this stuff. So did you start, were you just collecting shell boxes at first, or did you immediately branch out
6:02
Lee Schulz: to what You know, I say for the first year or two it was strictly shell boxes. That's kind of what I started with, the 25 count shell boxes and the wooden cases.
6:12
Katie Burke: Okay.
6:13
Lee Schulz: So I started started to build a collection of those, and then after a year or two, I think of the first thing I bought advertising related was a stand up die cut. Yeah. A Remington Arms, Mhmm. And I thought that was the neatest thing, so I bought it, and that was the first thing I owned from an advertising perspective, but I kept going with that too. Then I started picking up a few other things, going to local gun shows, and antique shows, and flea markets, and wherever you find these things.
6:43
You can find them anywhere, really Yeah, you it's
6:46
Katie Burke: a lot of things advertising was put on too. It wasn't just the calendars
6:53
Lee Schulz: and the Yeah, it's a really wide variety of items. When you say antique advertising, that covers a pretty broad swipe. You look around, you see the posters and the calendars and the great big storefront displays and the smaller cardboard displays, but there's also shell boxes, advertising there's envelopes, there's pin back buttons, there's letterheads, there's just a lot of things that you can collect, and back in the day, and when I say that I'm referring to like the 1920s or thirties or even before or after, but those companies didn't have the access to the mass media that we see today. Now we've got the internet, the television, radio, they didn't really have the opportunities to advertise in that way. Right.
7:44
So the only thing they could really do to get their name out, or one of the most powerful things they could do to get their name and their products in front of people was to capture the eye of the consumer. Yeah. And they had to do that with these graphic pictures, these illustrations from these wonderful artists. So that's kind of how they pursued their marketing.
8:05
Katie Burke: Yeah, and they used such well, now we think of them like in terms of like what's being sold at auctions of these famous waterfowl, like outdoors, like wildlife artists basically. It wasn't just like any artist.
8:19
Lee Schulz: No. No, not at all. The artists that, were commissioned to do these pieces for Winchester and Remington and Peters and DuPont, they were the most, many of the most powerful and well known artists of the time period. I mean, I could throw out a bunch of names. You got Philip Goodwin, you've got Lin Bogue Hunt, you've got Edmund Ostos, Gustav Mus Arnolt.
8:42
Mean, these people were the best at their craft. Yeah. Really were.
8:46
Katie Burke: Many of those also are like, what you come in after are like some of the first Ducks stamp winners too. Oh, Like,
8:51
Lee Schulz: those are
8:51
Katie Burke: all like huge
8:53
Lee Schulz: Richard Bishop and Frank Benson, and and the names just keep coming. Yeah. Those people were highly involved in this this trade.
9:00
Katie Burke: Yeah. You think about that now, like, what a lucrative career, like, they would have, like, compared like, they had so many more avenues to sell.
9:08
Lee Schulz: Sure it was lucrative, but you know, when you look back
9:11
Katie Burke: They probably didn't get paid a ton.
9:13
Lee Schulz: There's there's a lot of history that shows what they either did get paid or didn't get paid depending upon how you want to look at it. But their works back then weren't considered to be as priceless as we look at them today.
9:25
Katie Burke: Yeah.
9:26
Lee Schulz: You know, like Field of Stream, Field and Stream magazine. I've seen classified ads in those magazines before where the cover art
9:34
Katie Burke: Yes.
9:35
Lee Schulz: You could buy that. They would put a classified ad in in an issue of Field and Stream stating that you could buy the original painting, you could buy the original painting for the October issue of the 1921 Field and Stream for like $15.
9:51
Katie Burke: Oh gosh.
9:52
Lee Schulz: Isn't that just crazy?
9:53
Katie Burke: That's crazy. And some of those covers are
9:55
Lee Schulz: just They're tremendous works of art. Yeah.
10:00
Katie Burke: We were looking at those when we were was doing the Candid Goose book that I did for the exhibit we just had. We had these we were doing I had to get maps made. Yeah. And I was talking to her, was like, I want this vibe. Like, want, like Sure.
10:16
This vibe from that. Like, I want because we were trying to change things. I was like, yeah. Was like, it's they're iconic. Like, the and I think people I think that's the fun thing about doing advertising art versus some of these old decoys is people connect to it, I think, a lot quicker because of old split photo and string magazines and things like that.
10:38
Like, they have a connection that they can get to that little bit faster.
10:41
Lee Schulz: Yeah. Think so. You know, the illustrators I mean, that was their job, was to capture your attention. Yeah. And they did dramatic scenes.
10:50
Katie Burke: Yeah.
10:50
Lee Schulz: You know, of
10:51
Katie Burke: I love the bear. That
10:52
Lee Schulz: one's The bear hunting, and the bear coming around the cliff, or the flock of redhead ducks that's right above, and they really knew how to capture the people's attention. Yeah. So when you used to go into those old hardware stores or wherever these pieces would be, I mean, people were people were drawn to it immediately.
11:09
Katie Burke: Yeah. Yeah. No, it makes sense too, and I think, and when I think about this, they did a lot of the like, though they were making these, you know, obviously in the thirties, forties, fifties, stuff, but a lot of the scenes though would be be nostalgia for that. Was thinking later they
11:27
Lee Schulz: I think I kind of know where you're going
11:29
Katie Burke: with it.
11:29
Lee Schulz: Yeah, but I don't disagree.
11:31
Katie Burke: No, it's
11:32
Lee Schulz: a But I think that most of the art that was created was trying to create a situation that could happen today.
11:41
Katie Burke: Okay.
11:42
Lee Schulz: You know, I think they were very present with what they were doing.
11:46
Katie Burke: They were trying to
11:46
Lee Schulz: You know, this this was a scene, a Rocky Mountain scene from nineteen o eight, and that's the the romance They were
11:53
Katie Burke: to put that person in that
11:54
Lee Schulz: place at that moment in time. I don't think they were trying to skip generations
12:00
Katie Burke: Okay.
12:01
Lee Schulz: Or or I
12:02
Katie Burke: think go that's where I messed up too.
12:03
Lee Schulz: Yeah. Well, and that's okay. And I could be wrong, but I that's always been my belief that Yeah. They were trying to be very present Yeah. In that in that moment, in that time period.
12:14
Weren't trying to go back or forward. The artists that were doing these these works of art, I mean, the equipment that was being used, the guns that were being advertised, shotshells, it was the most current stuff that was that was available to the consumers.
12:28
Katie Burke: You're right, because that makes now I think about it, that makes sense, because obviously, like, because in that ad is the gun that's
12:34
Lee Schulz: being That's the gun they're pushing, right?
12:35
Katie Burke: Right. Like, why would they want to put it in a time period before that, because that wouldn't make any sense, right? Right. So they would have to do it. Yeah, I didn't think about that.
12:43
I was thinking I think where I got messed up is like I had the time wrong, and I was like, okay, but no, it makes sense. They're trying to get them to imagine themselves with that gun in that place.
12:54
Lee Schulz: They're trying to get some guy in the hardware store dreaming of going bare on Mountain Colorado and he buys that rifle today. Yeah,
13:02
Katie Burke: that makes sense.
13:03
Lee Schulz: That was their job.
13:04
Katie Burke: Yeah, no, that's interesting. Yeah, was thinking about that because they have to think it's just interesting.
13:09
Lee Schulz: But you do see, at times, you do see advertising, maybe more so in the 50s and 60s, you might have seen some of that advertising where they tried to have a reminiscent type of vision for the consumers.
13:26
Katie Burke: Right.
13:26
Lee Schulz: You know, back in the olden days, what grandpa
13:28
Katie Burke: They're was starting to do that now.
13:31
Lee Schulz: Yeah. I'm not saying they didn't do that, but most of the art that was produced, like, let's say between 1880 and 1940 or whatever, know, some of the golden years, they were very present with what they did. Okay. You know, they were really trying to make a depiction that was dramatic and and got got the consumers imagining things, and they were but they were advertising what was current right then and Yeah.
13:58
Katie Burke: Wanting to go.
13:58
Lee Schulz: Ammunition guns, fishing rods, whatever it Yeah.
14:02
Katie Burke: And it's funny because then think about that, not only are these like, Not every of these signs though have like, you know, like the actual thing they're selling in there. No. But when they had to, the artists had to also become an advertising agent in that thing because they had to think about how they're going to sell this.
14:20
Lee Schulz: Absolutely. Well, and when they made their paintings, was very common for them, they needed to keep spaces on the painting so that the product, the manufacturer could work in their name and what it was they were trying to sell. Yep. Yeah. And that was a very, you know, that was a directive that Winchester or somebody would give to the artist, you know, we need an eight square inch section in the upper right hand corner in a light green or a light blue so that we can put our advertising there.
14:51
Artists knew that.
14:52
Katie Burke: Same with the calendar,
14:53
Lee Schulz: yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. They had kind of some marching orders with what they had to do, they were talented artists and they had no problem doing that. They were commissioned to do that, so they understood their assignment.
15:05
Katie Burke: No, that's interesting. Yeah, I was yeah, I definitely got myself thinking a wrong time period. Yeah. But you're right, then they had so many more like and that's similar with, you know, now we don't have deal with that as much because it's all graphically and they can move things around.
15:22
Lee Schulz: It's all computer aided.
15:23
Katie Burke: Yeah. But like, which is nice though, they're having like Field and Stream is bringing it back.
15:31
Lee Schulz: They kind of are.
15:32
Katie Burke: Well, they had the last they're having they're commissioning the artwork for the cover.
15:36
Lee Schulz: Yeah. Absolutely. And I love that.
15:37
Katie Burke: I love it.
15:38
Lee Schulz: When I go into the stores and I see that old time type of Yeah. Marketing, you know, the advertising, The Federal Cartridge Department Yeah. Federal Cartridge Company Yeah. They have put out a number of boxes in recent years that have kind of the old school flavor
15:53
Katie Burke: Mhmm.
15:54
Lee Schulz: Of shell boxes that they would have put out in the nineteen twenties Yeah. And thirties and forties, and and that's really nice to see in the stores.
16:01
Katie Burke: Yeah. They've even we've noticed, and we've done it as well, but the camo, they that's coming back too. People wanting which I don't know if people really realize, but that was painted by artists.
16:13
Lee Schulz: Oh, it was?
16:13
Katie Burke: Yeah. Yeah. Like, well, Richard Bishop did the not Richard Bishop, sorry. Maynard did the Bob Allen, you know, the splotchy Bob Allen Ducks Unlimited camo. He painted that.
16:27
Lee Schulz: Oh, cool.
16:28
Katie Burke: That was designed by him. So, and that's coming back in a little more to kind of rebrand that stuff and not do this digitized camo, but kind of go back into the old style stuff. So, I mean, it was everywhere. It's like the artists and the advertising kind of in outdoors, it touched a little bit of everything, like, and you have it here in this room, like you can see it in every little thing where there's even just the way they put stamps on boxes Right. Yeah, it's everywhere.
17:00
Lee Schulz: Yeah, they were very conscientious of how they laid things out. Whether it was a letterhead or an envelope or anything, They put a lot of time into We
17:12
Katie Burke: had this one painting, I missed that we don't have anymore. At one point in time we had, I think it was from Winchester, was either Winchester or Remington, I can't remember. Think it was Winchester, it might have been Remington. Our sponsor now is Winchester, I think it might have been Remington. They had done early stuff with DU, like in the early days of DU for advertising art things like that.
17:37
And we had the original painting, and they had done, like, think it's like a '57 Ford, and it has the old DU logo on it. Yeah. And it was like in a field, and it was made for like an advertisement in one of the magazines to, like, Conservation of the EU, they had because they had a great collection of art that had been used in advertising. Right. And we had it on loan for a while, and I don't know where it went, but I had it back because it was cool.
18:05
Lee Schulz: You'll have to find it.
18:06
Katie Burke: I really like it. But they had quite a few of that stuff, and everything that they had, you could tell, had been a cover, like, you know, something to advertise. It was definitely roommates, that. It had been a part of that, that they had loaned us, and I think they have since sold most of that. I don't know where it has all gone, but it was really neat to see.
18:27
And but, yeah, because Ducks Unlimited is also a part of this. Like, we have had a big part in this in advertising art and history
18:36
Lee Schulz: to
18:37
Katie Burke: do our own stuff.
18:37
Lee Schulz: Absolutely.
18:39
Katie Burke: Because the event program, we had to sell things to to make money for conservation, and that is one way
18:46
Lee Schulz: Yeah.
18:46
Katie Burke: Because people were buying through that stuff.
18:48
Lee Schulz: Right. Yeah.
18:56
VO: Stay tuned to the Ducks Unlimited Podcast sponsored by Purina Pro Plan and Bird Dog Whiskey after these messages.
19:13
Katie Burke: I love that they're bringing it back. I love the boxes. Mhmm. Because they're and, like, I feel like those are probably the ones people connect to the most. I find people say they have boxes, random box.
19:23
They're usually not the best boxes that you really wish they had, but they have saved a box.
19:29
Lee Schulz: That's right.
19:29
Katie Burke: Well, I feel like I meet more hunters that have got a random box of shells Yeah. That they have saved.
19:35
Lee Schulz: Well, and it's really common for a hunter to have a box of his dad's shells Yeah. Exactly. Or his grandpa's shells. Yes. That's a very common thing.
19:42
It's kind of something that is very close to the people. It brings them back to memories with grandpa or their dad, and they like to save that and put it in their gun cabinet in the gun room, and it means something to them.
19:55
Katie Burke: So what are you when it comes to shell boxes, do you prefer them just to be in great condition, or do you like the shells in them? What is your
20:06
Lee Schulz: preference? That's kind of a catch 22.
20:08
Katie Burke: Yeah. I always find that difficult.
20:09
Lee Schulz: There are some boxes that are really, really just super rare. Yeah. And if that's what you want, and if that's what's in your collection, sometimes it's better to have that box and have it be empty than to not have it and have it be full. So there's kind of a little give and take with that full and empty concept. Know, if it's a super rare box, take it no matter how it comes.
20:33
If if it's a relatively common box that you can find over time, yeah, if you like full boxes, then hold out for a full box.
20:41
Katie Burke: I always get nervous with the full boxes though, because over time they like to
20:45
Lee Schulz: Expand.
20:46
Katie Burke: And they
20:47
Lee Schulz: can they can kind of pop
20:48
Katie Burke: out Paper is finicky.
20:50
Lee Schulz: That's
20:50
Katie Burke: right. And we haven't talked about that, but you collect paper.
20:53
Lee Schulz: That's right.
20:54
Katie Burke: And paper is probably the hardest thing.
20:57
Lee Schulz: It's very sensitive. Yes. It's mean
20:59
Katie Burke: the hardest thing to collect.
21:00
Lee Schulz: A lot of this paper is a 100 plus years old or 80 years old.
21:04
Katie Burke: And it was not made to last.
21:06
Lee Schulz: No, it was not made to last. Over time heat, moisture, those things get into paper and they ruin it.
21:13
Katie Burke: Yeah.
21:14
Lee Schulz: You can also have paper restored, which there are professionals out there that can do a wonderful job of bringing a piece back to life, so that's an option too. Yeah. But yeah, the elements are really the enemy of paper.
21:27
Katie Burke: Yeah.
21:28
Lee Schulz: And to find some of these pieces in good condition, it's really hard.
21:32
Katie Burke: Yeah, so that was my next question really. So, because I think we've talked on the podcast a ton about decoys and calls and, you know, art even, but when you're collect how has collecting advertising art changed since you started? Like, where you were finding it and how you're finding it now? Like how is that What's that evolution like?
21:55
Lee Schulz: Well, when I got started, of course, the internet wasn't even released to the public. Yeah. So everything was different then.
22:02
Katie Burke: You
22:03
Lee Schulz: know, if you wanted to find this stuff, you literally had to be on the move to go find it. You had to go to a show, you had to go to an auction, you couldn't sit at home and bid, you couldn't just look up on the internet where you might find something on a website or at an auction out in California, you had to go. Yep. And with that, you you did a lot more traveling, you did a lot more networking with people
22:30
Katie Burke: Yep.
22:31
Lee Schulz: To try to make connections with people who have similar interests, or at least they pick antiques, and then you keep in contact with them and you build a collection. Know, you go to the antique shows, or the gun shows, or the decoy shows, and you find items and you buy them, and it evolved a lot in that the internet was released and
22:52
Katie Burke: eBay.
22:53
Lee Schulz: EBay, and you got all these online auctions and social media outlets that you know, if you want to collect and just stay home all the time, you can. Yeah. You don't really have to meet people or go anywhere. No. To me, that's not the funnest way of doing it.
23:09
I like to get out and meet people and come to a show like this and see old friends that I've known for years and years and years, and it's a vacation. It really is. It's a great time.
23:19
Katie Burke: So with like because I know a little bit about it because one of my coworkers did show boxes for a long time, and I know that like with eBay and as things went online, because these are not like Now, some of these things are worth The like the adventures are worth a lot of money, but they are on the lower end compared to like the big decoys, right? But there are exceptions. But they are not they're more for some people, especially with like they're a little more entry level, some of the
23:48
Lee Schulz: Yeah, a lot of it is.
23:49
Katie Burke: Yeah. So, with that though comes the issue with like when eBay and stuff came out having to deal with what was real and what was not. And do you have that still is that still a thing or is it not?
24:02
Lee Schulz: Well, it's still very much a thing.
24:04
Katie Burke: Yeah. And is it easy for the is it like an easier my question I guess is is the nature of it being paper, is it an easier avenue for people to do that?
24:15
Lee Schulz: To reproduce or
24:16
Katie Burke: make
24:18
Lee Schulz: fantasy pieces or It's very easy to do. Yeah. And it's done all the time, and you can go online and pull up tons of reproduction items.
24:29
Katie Burke: Right.
24:30
Lee Schulz: Fantasy or just plain old reproductions. It's certainly changed the hobby because a lot of people might not have the knowledge or the background to tell the difference between real and not real, but if you've been doing this a long time, it's quite easy to tell.
24:50
Katie Burke: Okay, yeah.
24:51
Lee Schulz: It really is.
24:53
Katie Burke: And that's where going to the show and stuff like that.
24:55
Lee Schulz: Yeah, that's where your firsthand knowledge of holding something in your hand and talking with people and knowing what to look for and look at, that means a lot, and that can keep you out of trouble, so
25:06
Katie Burke: to speak. Yeah. Yeah, I was just wondering, because I didn't know if like, with eBay, I knew things blew up right there for a little while, things are, but then I feel like, and I feel like it's still that way with decoys, but there are more sites like John and them sites that are like trusted sources. I didn't know how much it's like moved over to like, you can just buy in these avenues, or like you're still kind of playing the Wild West situation with some of these.
25:34
Lee Schulz: Okay.
25:35
Katie Burke: Does that make sense? This is I You don't have to, you can just tell me off
25:38
Lee Schulz: the This is genetic.
25:39
Katie Burke: Yeah. But I was curious.
25:41
Lee Schulz: So, trying to go, you know, how easy or hard is it to tell reproduction
25:45
Katie Burke: somewhere No, you're no, I was just wondering if it has shifted back to not being like, I just remember when I was talking to Dave about it, like, earlier in the eBay days, like, it was everywhere. Like, the Marrone, he used to work for DU. He used collect Shellbox. And he used to say, like, early in the eBay days, it got it was a little crazy because, like, it was new. EBay was new, and they they're had like, oh, wait, people want to buy this stuff?
26:10
Let's make things. Like, yeah.
26:12
Lee Schulz: Well,
26:12
Katie Burke: anytime But now I wonder, like, does it shift back after that calms down? Like, does it shift back to not having to deal with it quite as much?
26:20
Lee Schulz: Well, anytime something has value, it gets reproduced. Yeah. Sadly. Yeah. Whether it's a duck decoy or a
26:27
Katie Burke: A call, that was a whole duck
26:28
Lee Schulz: call or a poster or a calendar or a shotshell box, all this stuff gets Yeah. So, and in mass quantities. Yeah. And I mean mass quantities.
26:39
Katie Burke: Well, and I think a lot of it gets reproduced too, and not in a malicious way, but in a way to provide like, if they're honestly saying like, oh, this is a reproduction, like I can't afford the
26:51
Lee Schulz: Some of it is so the quality of the reproduction is It's so bad. It's obviously a reproduction. Most collectors would tell you though that they don't like to see any reproductions because it does devalue the original pieces to some degree.
27:06
Katie Burke: Yeah. Okay.
27:07
Lee Schulz: And if it's a person's intention to make a reproduction to try and fool somebody
27:12
Katie Burke: That's yeah.
27:13
Lee Schulz: Into thinking that it's unoriginal, then that's really a No, I hate taboo situation. Yeah. You know, most collectors are pretty passionate and get get pretty upset over it.
27:24
Katie Burke: Yeah. I was just thinking like well, I guess my question okay. Let me think about So, I guess my question is, is with the resurgence of, like, this new like, wanting to go back to this nostalgia, this old style, because it really has become a like, I've noticed this next generation that's coming through Ducks Unlimited and Honey and stuff. Like, we had him on the podcast, but this guy, he owns Camo Retro, and people are it's basically like a consignment online for old camo clothing.
27:55
Lee Schulz: Okay.
27:55
Katie Burke: They love it. They like it's getting really popular with Field and Stream being redone. I wonder with, like or I wonder if they'll be like, just to kind of let that audience have a chance to be a part of it, or how is that gonna new generation that may not have the money to collect yet, but they're very interested in this old this stuff.
28:18
Lee Schulz: Well, as far
28:19
Katie Burke: as having
28:20
Lee Schulz: the money to collect, I think what I've seen over the years
28:25
Katie Burke: Hold on, I got it. I know what asking.
28:26
Lee Schulz: What I've seen over the years is very few young people do collect. Yeah. You know, I started for me personally, my journey began at a pretty early age, and that was out of character, I think. Yeah. I think that's safe to say.
28:38
Katie Burke: So, I think what I really am asking is, so with like this new interest from this younger audience in this stuff, like, and Field to Stream, those catalogs are helping move that
28:51
Lee Schulz: interest
28:51
Katie Burke: along. What would be a good way, and like how would you want to introduce it to younger audience to start collecting this stuff? Like what would be your advice for somebody that was interested in
29:04
Lee Schulz: it? Okay. I think if a person first and foremost, I think what I tell people is you collect what you like. Yeah. You know, don't try to be influenced by what other people say you should go collect.
29:17
Yeah. That doesn't work. You have to be very honest with yourself and say, I really like shell boxes. Yeah. So collect those, and and if you're young and you get going, you might not have the income yet to jump in at the top level.
29:31
Right. Most collectors can't. They start with what they can afford, and as they get a little bit older and perhaps their careers blossom and they get a little more disposable income, then they can, move into the the upper tier stuff, the more expensive items. But as far as giving a young collector advice, collect what you like, collect the best that you can, and always be conscientious about the condition of what you collect. Yeah.
30:00
And try to stick to what is original. I wouldn't get sidetracked on buying reproduction items. Yeah. Even though they're cheap Yep. And they look great when you hang them up, I'm just not a fan.
30:11
Yeah. Well, So. You
30:12
Katie Burke: should be your
30:13
Lee Schulz: collector. I'm a purist in that regard.
30:17
Katie Burke: Well, okay, and then I guess my next question is, because a lot of times with other things you look like, it's like, oh, you can read about it in these books, like what are the resources to teach them about what this stuff is?
30:32
Lee Schulz: Well, there are some good books. A lot of them are fairly old now. Yeah. John Delft put a book out years ago, Firearms and Tackle Memorabilia. Bob and Beverly Strauss put books out years ago, I can't even say the names of their books.
30:48
But yeah. Al Boggess, Joe and Donna Tinelli, those people put out some really good reference books that can be utilized by these young collectors. Most of them are out of print, but if you look them up on eBay, you'll find them, and you can buy them, and that's a good start. In addition to that, I mean, you can look at all the historical catalogs from you know, your Guyette and Dieter's, and your wards auctions, and your auction companies that have handled a lot of this type of material. So a young collector can His learning curve can go pretty fast with the information available to them on the internet.
31:23
Yeah.
31:23
Katie Burke: I was going say, you can get to them, but hunting and fishing collectibles always had a lot in there. Like, they would have articles. They don't have it anymore, obviously, it doesn't exist. But I have all of them, and that's where if I needed to go, like find something about Winchester, like, so they were would have stuff in there. Had
31:42
Lee Schulz: Stan and Barbara's Hunting Collectible magazine.
31:46
Katie Burke: The Van Etten.
31:48
Lee Schulz: Van Etten.
31:49
Katie Burke: Yes.
31:49
Lee Schulz: Yeah. That was a wonderful magazine.
31:50
Katie Burke: It was a great magazine.
31:51
Lee Schulz: Actually spoke to a friend earlier today and I told him, I said, you know, that kind Bring of it back. That kind of hurt our hobby when they didn't, you know, sell the sell the publication, which I wish they would have.
32:02
Katie Burke: I know.
32:03
Lee Schulz: And I think they tried, but you don't have to put anything
32:05
Katie Burke: in No. But I think I think that
32:07
Lee Schulz: But that was a great publication.
32:08
Katie Burke: It was a great publication. And
32:10
Lee Schulz: it supported the hobby of of a number of sporting collectibles.
32:14
Katie Burke: Yeah. And I think it's what I think that's missing today is we have Decoy Magazine, obviously, but it's so specific, and that this hobby doesn't just include decoys
32:25
Lee Schulz: No, and it's duck a pretty broad swipe. Yeah. There's a lot of other things.
32:30
Katie Burke: You don't have to just be a decoy company.
32:31
Lee Schulz: Stan and Barbara, they did a great job. Yeah. We miss that magazine a lot.
32:35
Katie Burke: I love that magazine. I'm so happy I have them all. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he also gave me an Excel sheet to like go through and like figure out where things are.
32:43
Lee Schulz: Sure, I
32:45
Katie Burke: have a cheat sheet, but it's great, I love it. Yeah, that's a really good point, and thank you for sharing, like, all the places, because that's the one thing I did not know. Like, I knew there were I knew that through the magazine, but, like, having to find that I will say with when it comes to the arms stuff, you can they have a lot of information themselves
33:06
Lee Schulz: Yeah.
33:07
Katie Burke: In their history because they're such long running companies and things like that. Right. You can find a lot of information just online through them.
33:15
Lee Schulz: Yep.
33:15
Katie Burke: But there is a way to go through this. Yeah, it's really interesting. So how would you tell a fake from the real thing? Like what are the signs?
33:23
Lee Schulz: Well, the types of paper that are used. Yeah. Most of the reproductions in terms of paper are done on modern digital equipment. Yep. Whereas these items that were produced a hundred years ago, they were lithographs.
33:39
Katie Burke: Yep.
33:40
Lee Schulz: So when you look, and sometimes you have to look with a magnifying loop, you can tell the difference of the type of process that was used in manufacturing. That's kind of one of the ways, I guess the other way is just to handle it for thirty eight years and you kind of know what you're looking at, then that might not be a fair answer. No. But it isn't Well,
34:03
Katie Burke: doesn't show how we keep reiterating that you need to come to the shows, you need to meet the people, you need to see the stuff.
34:12
Lee Schulz: You need to build a network of people who you can trust.
34:15
Katie Burke: Yes.
34:15
Lee Schulz: And that's a fellow collector, an honest auctioneer,
34:21
Katie Burke: book
34:22
Lee Schulz: reference. Yeah. There's a number of things that you can do, but you got to get some people on your side who can help you along
34:28
Katie Burke: that Okay, and that leads me to another question. So who are those people for you?
34:31
Lee Schulz: You know, when I first got going, I started out on my own of course and didn't really know anything, but some of the people that I first came into contact with who were advanced collectors at that time were Gene Konopasek, who was a longtime decoy collector and he collected advertising art and original oil paintings and those types of things and he helped me out a lot along the way. Tom Webster was another really good influence. Tom was a Winchester collector, very, very renowned. He just had a lot of knowledge and he was willing to share it and he helped me out a lot. If I had questions, I could call him at any time.
35:15
Couldn't text back then, couldn't send an email, but you could call, and these people were really good to me. And there were many others, too many, I shouldn't even bring up any names because I'm gonna bypass a few, but there were a lot of people who helped me out along
35:28
Katie Burke: the way. Yeah, it just reiterates how important that is
35:31
Lee Schulz: when comes It's to collecting true, it's really critical.
35:33
Katie Burke: Even though I don't collect anything, but through the museum, you know, people will want to give us stuff or loan things, and depending on what it is, I have a handful of people I text like, crap or not crap?
35:49
Lee Schulz: Right. Right. Well, some things are worthy of going into the museum, and some things you probably don't want there.
35:56
Katie Burke: No. Well, and and some things are worthy going to the museum, and they don't fit our mission or what we're trying to do. Right. And that doesn't necessarily mean that they're bad. It just means they don't fit what we're trying to do.
36:09
Lee Schulz: That's
36:09
Katie Burke: right. And that is okay. Like, not every advertising art would fit in the museum, quite a lot of it would.
36:16
Lee Schulz: Yeah. That's right.
36:17
Katie Burke: So it it does like, there is overlap with us, but then there is not.
36:21
Lee Schulz: Yeah.
36:21
Katie Burke: I love this stuff. So is there anything else that we haven't talked about?
36:25
Lee Schulz: I think we've covered a lot of the bases.
36:27
Katie Burke: Yeah. Well, thank you for doing this. This is really fun.
36:29
Lee Schulz: Well, you're welcome. I had a good time. Yeah.
36:31
Katie Burke: Well, thank you, Lee, for coming on the show. Thank you, Chris Isaac, our producer, and thanks to you, listener, for wetlands and waterfowl conservation.
36:41
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