Latest / Estie Insider Podcast / Are All Estheticians Becoming the Same?
Transcript
- Estie Insider Podcast: Welcome to the Estee Insider podcast, where skincare meets real life. We're your hosts, Chelsea, Jacqueline, and Rebecca. Three estheticians in three different time zones, obsessed with skin, business, and the beauty of connection. No topic is off limits. This is the unfiltered side of skin. Let's get into it. Chelsea: Yeah, do it. That sounds Estie Insider Podcast: Okay. Rebekah: Hi. Chelsea: great. Rebekah: Welcome back to the SD Insider podcast, where Jacqueline feels wildly unprepared because sometimes Estie Insider Podcast: Very unprepared. Rebekah: she thinks that it's like we need to research everything, but I'm just I'm just here for the conversation. So type A. Yeah. Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. No, lead the way. Chelsea: She Jacqueline, I feel like Jacqueline, your personality. Well, it's like you like to have a plan. You like to know Estie Insider Podcast: Mm-hmm. Chelsea: what we're gonna what it's gonna be. Do you f is Estie Insider Podcast: Yes. Chelsea: this you in general? Like this is the plan, Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. Chelsea: this is what we're gonna follow. This so you know what to expect. Yeah. That's okay. Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. Yeah. And I don't feel prepared. I looked at the text, but we're just gonna we're just gonna go off vibes and whatever comes to mind. Chelsea: We're fake it till you make it. Yeah. Rebekah: Yeah. I thrive in chaos. I thrive in chaos. So what I was telling the girls Chelsea: arrive at camp. Rebekah: was this morning on my drive to work, I was thinking about how there used to be so much more room in the aesthetics industry to for people to have different philosophies in aesthetics. Estie Insider Podcast: Mm. Mm-hmm. Rebekah: So with a lot of things that are going online, on online right now, we I believe, or a lot of us are thinking that, you know. There needs to be a peer reviewed study. We need to know every single ingredient on the inky list of every single product that we're using. We need to see white papers and clinical studies for every single thing that we do in the treatment room. And that is kind of the rhetoric, I think, that is mostly what we see online right now. But when I started, there was kind of like a whole spectrum of aestheticians. There used to be these the side of aesthetics that was, you know, holistic. And those who loved plant-based medicine, those who loved herbal remedies, those who loved essential oils. And Estie Insider Podcast: Mm-hmm. Rebekah: I think now I even see I there are they do still exist. There's a very, I feel like small part of the industry that exists. But Chelsea: Like small community of it. Yeah. Rebekah: even those people, and I do follow some of them, they kind of get ripped apart for, you know, there's no there's no proof that this helps this. There's no science behind this. But like, you know, these people have been doing this for years. They Estie Insider Podcast: Mm. Yeah. Rebekah: see the patterns. They see how their clients respond to these treatments and these ingredients. And I just miss when we just let people practice in their own lane according to their own personal philosophies. Chelsea: Right. Rebekah: And, you know, we don't have to agree with it. I might not, I might, I don't know. But I Chelsea: Right. Rebekah: just I fear that I just I feel bad for people being ripped apart. And I feel like it's trying to put us all in a box where we're all doing the same thing over and over. Chelsea: Yes. Yeah. Rebekah: And I miss the creativity and the fun and I Estie Insider Podcast: Mm-hmm. Rebekah: don't know, the whimsy. I miss the whimsy behind aesthetics. So that was just what I was thinking about. Chelsea: Yes. You know, what's what's interesting, what what's interesting you saying that, so I went to that trade show over the summer, not the one for aestheticians, but the pr skincare products. The Estie Insider Podcast: Mm-hmm. Chelsea: my gosh, I have no brain. Cosmoprof. Thank you, Chelsea. My neurons are not firing. Rebekah: Take a six of your enemy of your monster. Estie Insider Podcast: Neither. Mm-hmm. Chelsea: so I went to Cosmoprof and I I did not spend a ton of time on the floor because this this was as if I owned a skincare company. And so the floor was all manufacturers and packaging and all that stuff. And like I don't need to go talk to manufacturers, right? It was cool to walk through, but but I took these classes and they were so interesting to me. And I think that the industry. And we can talk about this later, but social media has completely changed the industry. I think social media is at fault for ch Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. Chelsea: for changing what you just said, Rebecca. Like, Rebekah: Yeah. Chelsea: you know, it's it's just what it there's so much access to information through social media. But what these these people who were teaching these classes were, you know, CEOs and brand marketers and cos cosmetic chemists and all this stuff. And They were talking about how it used to be. What one reason that the industry changed was clean beauty. Kind the that term clean beauty kind of ruined all Rebekah: Yes. Chelsea: of that because there were so many claims about non-toxic and all this stuff and people and kind of over promising. It got overhyped. And then all this, a lot of information came out that, maybe that's actually not true. Rebekah: A thing. Chelsea: And so but consumer habits have changed too. So this one class talked Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. Chelsea: about how, you know, kind of more like my mom's generation, they looked at skincare as like, I don't care what's in it, just give it to me. You tell me it's gonna take my wrinkles away, I'm Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. Chelsea: gonna use it. You tell me that it's Rebekah: Mm. Chelsea: gonna make my skin look 10 years younger, I'm gonna use it. And now, yes, now consume now consumers, and this is not Rebekah: Mm-hmm. Estie Insider Podcast: Now we're looking for like key words like AHA BHA hyaluronic. Chelsea: aestheticians, these are consumers because these brands were not. They were these were all kinds of brands, not just brands for aestheticians. These are brands that are on Amazon and in Ulta and Sephora and all this stuff. So they do a ton of consumer research and consumer habits have changed. Consumers want to know they are much more savvy. They have so much more access to information to find out what's in products and they want to know. They want to know what they're spending their money on. They want to know what ingredients are in it. They want to know what the claims are and if it's accurate. And so I that's where I think we've seen the shift to this like more science based you know concept with skincare, because ultimately it's to get consumers to buy it. And if you're not targeting consumers that you that are gonna buy your product, then so I I think there's a lot that goes into it. And I think aestheticians Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. Chelsea: get stuck in the middle because these brands are really using us to get to the consumer. And Rebekah: Mm. Chelsea: but we kind of get left out of the game plan. Estie Insider Podcast: Mm-hmm. I do feel that way, yeah. That's a good good way to put it. Rebekah: Yeah. And what do you think when speaking of brands, like when it comes to us, you know, knowing the science behind it and the ingredients, do you think it's up to the brands to be teaching us these things? Should Chelsea: Yes. Rebekah: we be doing it independently? Because when it comes to the brands teaching us things, like obviously they're going to be teaching in favor of the products that they've formulated. Chelsea: Yes. For sure. Yeah, no, I think both. I think so again, sorry, I didn't want to make this episode about this whole trade show, but I think it fits and it kind of changed. It Rebekah: Yeah, no, it does. Yeah. Chelsea: changed a lot of how I look at products and going forward when I'm going to talk to brands about their products because it was interesting. I sat in some classes that were taught taught by cosmetic chemists. And formulators and you and for so long, again, it's like this is a good thing about social media. Like, never I didn't even know what a cosmetic chemist was. It's like, yeah, there's just Rebekah: Right. Chelsea: people who make products in labs. And so Rebekah: Yes, yes. Chelsea: now these people are on social media and educating, and they literally like mix ingredients together all day to see what works together, what stays stable and you know, how to make a formula nice and pretty, like all this stuff that I don't know. And so you have these cosmetic chemists who are speaking out more now and they're more visible. And so it was interesting in these classes, the cosmetic chemists weren't necessarily frustrated with aestheticians. They were frustrated with the brand because they'll they'll make a product and then the brand takes it and puts their marketing on it and it's like way overhyped. And they're like, wait a second, that's that's Rebekah: Mm, yes. Chelsea: not What you should be claiming with this Rebekah: Yeah. Chelsea: formula. Estie Insider Podcast: Mm-hmm. Chelsea: And so then the aestheticians get kind of sold on this marketing. And I think that's what creates this divide. So I think brands now, and we're I think we're seeing it. Brands are getting called out for BS marketing. Rebekah: Mm. Chelsea: And aestheticians are frustrated, cosmetic chemists are frustrated. So I think you know it's I think it's up to us to like ask hard questions and really take our time to research these brands that we want to carry and hold them accountable. Rebekah: Yeah. I will say that is one thing that I think face reality does really well is they won't even I don't even know if I'm allowed to I'm sure fine I'm saying this, but like they won't allow us to say, you know, like wrinkle reducing. We'll get like get rid of your wrinkles. Like we aren't, as ambassadors and people who are Estie Insider Podcast: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Chelsea: Sure. Rebekah: promoting their products, we're not allowed to say that because those claims are they're they're crazy claims and like what what do you have to back that up? So there are certain terms that you really shouldn't be saying. to the consumer to try and market these products and these ingredients. So I really do think they deserve their flowers in that when they are like very science based, by the book, clinical studies, they do not like make these crazy claims. Chelsea: Sure. Yes. And I I think there I think there's a lot of brands. Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. Chelsea: I think there's a lot of brands who do that. And if you I think that these brands that are doing a good job with that, I think they're I think it there's there's not a coincidence that these brands aren't pumping out new products every other month. It they release products because they take their time to create good products. Rebekah: Mm-hmm. 'Cause it takes like what over a year. Chelsea: And so yes, in what those classes I said a good formula takes about 18 months Rebekah: Right. Chelsea: to test and to, you know, make sure that it's gonna sell well and all that stuff. And so if you have brands, so that's what they were saying again, it kind of changed my whole even on professional, like the difference between professional grade and like drugstore products. I'm kind of at this like internal, like, there's really not a difference. There's not. The difference comes down to how much time and like if somebody truly wants to create a good product, they will. If somebody is more interested in let's just get a product out so we can catch ride the train of whatever trendy ingredient and just make a ton of money and then sell the brand. That that there's people like that in professional gr in professional Rebekah: I know, I know. Chelsea: grade and drugstore. They were saying, they said that there on average there are 30,000 new skincare brands per year. Rebekah: That's insane. Estie Insider Podcast: That's crazy. Chelsea: Yes. And that's including professional grade, Rebekah: Professional. Chelsea: everything. 30,000. So they're saying it is it is so easy. It's never been easier to get into the skincare market. But it's trying to stay relevant. That's where Estie Insider Podcast: So do you think that when you said that they're the same, drugstore and professional, are you talking about like formulation too? Like there's really no difference in formulation or are you talking just about like how it works? Chelsea: I think so if you're so most brands, and in fact they encouraged, they were like, if you are starting a skincare brand, don't go custom formulation right off the bat because it's so expensive. They were saying it's about $20,000 for a custom formulation for one product. And so if you have a whole line of stuff, you're in like hundred, you know, over a hundred thousand dollars. To get like a basic routine down. And so that's where they're you go to these labs who have private label, they have the formula already created. You can change up to three ingredients before they have to like retest the stability and the efficacy and all that stuff. And so you can kind of like semi custom formulate. And so what they're saying is start your line once you're making money, then you can go back in and do your custom formulas. Cause what's scary is when you when you private label or white label, you don't own the formula. The lab owns the formula. So if that lab shuts down, you gotta go find a new, you gotta go find a new place. And so Estie Insider Podcast: You shut down. Yeah. Yeah. Rebekah: Yeah. Chelsea: but it so that's typically what skincare brands do. And then as they evolve, then it becomes more custom and it becomes their own. So what I'm saying is like, It's not like, hey, I want to start a professional line. I'm going to go to this lab. You go to any lab. And then you're the one who decides if you're going to sell to aestheticians or if you're going to go DTC. Rebekah: huh. Estie Insider Podcast: Okay. Chelsea: The ingredients are coming from the same sources, but I feel like this is all my opinion. So I feel like a brand who is choosing to sell. To aestheticians and go that route, they are trying to impress aestheticians. So they're gonna try to make their formula really nice. They're gonna, you know, put ingredients in it that aestheticians wanna see. They're gonna they are kind of targeting us that in the hopes that we'll sell to the consumer ultimately. But and that's why it makes sense. I mean, look at I'm not gonna name certain brands, but right off the top of my head, there's a certain, there's Rebekah: Why not? Do it. Chelsea: Okay, for example, skins Estie Insider Podcast: Pasty. Chelsea: skin script. I never fully carried their whole line. I love their back bar stuff. Their Estie Insider Podcast: They're so great. Chelsea: sunscreen is awful. It's awful. It pills. I'm sorry. I love you, Skinscript, but like what the hell? Yes. Estie Insider Podcast: Reformulate your sunscreen, please. Rebekah: Do they only have one? Chelsea: Especially when we have access to all these like really Estie Insider Podcast: So Chelsea: cool sunscreen formulas. Estie Insider Podcast: There are so many new sunscreen formulas. Chelsea: At least as far as I haven't tried it in several years. So it they maybe they reformulated. So I'm gonna I'm just gonna say when I use theirs old sunscreen or whatever sunscreen you know, it was terrible. So it's like, Rebekah: It's up. It's a Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. You weren't impressed. Yeah, it's terrible. Chelsea: well, that's a professional grade line. Why is their sunscreen terrible? It's because that's Rebekah: Mm. Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. Chelsea: the ch that's the formula that they chose. Estie Insider Podcast: Mm-hmm. Rebekah: Hmm. Interesting. Chelsea: What are you thinking, Rebecca, Estie Insider Podcast: Interestante. Chelsea: 'cause you're sitting Rebekah: No. Chelsea: there Rebekah: No, I was just I was actually thinking of skin script because I was thinking of I have like I don't know what I think about skin script, not to go on like a tangent, but I always Chelsea: No, you're fine. Rebekah: have this like want and desire Chelsea: Mm. Rebekah: to carry a so many more enzymes in my back bar because I feel like I'm lacking. Yes, and I always think of skin script when you think of enzymes because they have they're Estie Insider Podcast: Me too. And masks. they're the best. Yes. Chelsea: Yeah. Yeah. Rebekah: known for like an insane plethora. Chelsea: They've so yeah. I love them. Go ahead. Rebekah: Well, you what's so funny is I literally was on their website and the algorithm is just crazy. I was on their website looking at all their enzymes. I was researching them. And then not even ten minutes later, I opened TikTok and this esthetician comes up and she goes, I am so over skin script. Their enzymes, even the most gentle ones, always give my clients reactions. And I was like, shit, maybe I shouldn't get their enzymes. I have clearly. Chelsea: Yes. Yeah. I try to so they're like their their Estie Insider Podcast: I haven't heard that. Like I I mean I I I don't not believe it. Chelsea: enzymes with acids are like super strong and they'll come out occasionally Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. Chelsea: with non-acid ones. Like I'm trying to think of again, there's like the neurons are not firing, but yes. Yes, you can cut it. You can cut Estie Insider Podcast: But also a lot of people mix I they mix the enzyme with a mask to dilute it a little bit. Chelsea: it with like their the creamy mask that Rebekah: Okay. Estie Insider Podcast: The yogurt mask is very common or the honey mask you can cut it with. Chelsea: they have. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Rebekah: Do you use them, Jackson? Estie Insider Podcast: Cause pumpkin is really strong. What? Rebekah: Do you use skin script enzymes? Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah, I well I mean I throughout my whole since 'cause in school we used skin script because it's in Arizona. So the the the Rebekah: Mm-hmm. Yeah, right. Chelsea: Yes, that's right. Estie Insider Podcast: factories here. But they are very strong and potent. so I think that cutting it is really, really important. especially the pumpkin. I was just talking to an aesthetician about that. A lot of people get reactive to the pumpkin because it's Rebekah: Mm-hmm. Estie Insider Podcast: so, so strong. Chelsea: Yes. Estie Insider Podcast: But once you cut it, it's just crazy. I mean, it just it just feels and does amazing. Chelsea: They came out last last year they came out with a non acid pumpkin. And Estie Insider Podcast: They did? Chelsea: said, mm-hmm. And we used it for our fall facial last year and it was really nice. I don't know if I don't know I don't know if they have it this year. I didn't check. Rebekah: I'll see. See? Maybe I should maybe I should order. Estie Insider Podcast: Wait, what is it called? No, Rebecca, it's really great. You just need to I would get the yogurt, the goji berry yogurt mask with Chelsea: They smell they smell so good. Yeah. Estie Insider Podcast: any enzyme that you get, because that's what they recommend cutting it with. And then I am obsessed with the honey mask. Like obsessed. Chelsea: The honey mask is so good. It's so good. Rebekah: I thought you didn't like the smell of honey, Jacqueline. Estie Insider Podcast: No, I know. This one doesn't smell like honey. It smells like lemon and citrus. Rebekah: Ooh, yummy. Estie Insider Podcast: And you I think maybe a little eucalyptus. It's a honey texture. Yeah, I do not like the honey scrub from Circadia. Chelsea: But it has like a honey texture. Like you feel like you're putting honey on their skin. Yeah. And it kind of it kind of warms. It kind of warms. It's so good. Rebekah: Okay. Okay, I'm gonna make an I have Estie Insider Podcast: Thank you, Rebecca. Rebekah: so much crap to order today. okay, so Chelsea: I know. Rebekah: Where where's this episode going? How did this episode start? how I Estie Insider Podcast: Guys, I'm gonna look up this pumpkin thing. I don't know. Rebekah: was talking about how, you know, there's not like on online specifically, there's no room for or I don't find that there's space for multiple different philosophies for aestheticians. I feel like we are all put in this box of whatever you do in the treatment Chelsea: Yeah. Rebekah: room, whatever you're ro recommending for your clients, it needs to be evidence-based, science-backed, peer-reviewed study, all this stuff. Or else you you run the risk of being stitched and pulled apart. for example, I don't want to name drop. I'm not gonna name drop. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, no, I'm gonna name drop. Well, the enlightened esthetician Estie Insider Podcast: Do it, Rebecca, do it. You won't. Chelsea: Do it. No, I'm just kidding. Rebekah: Morgan. you know, I love her, I got her acne method book. I I signed up with Estie Insider Podcast: Yes, book yeah. Rebekah: that. And she did get some backlash for that because there's a lot of things in there that are that embody a holistic approach. She talks about trauma skin, what type of acne looks like when you have PTSD or you go through a traumatic event. Chelsea: Interesting. Rebekah: And I'm gonna be honest, I have seen that multiple times. One of my Chelsea: Yeah. Rebekah: very best clients, her fiance passed away and she came to me two weeks Chelsea: Mm. Rebekah: three weeks after her fiance passed away. And it looked exactly like the type of acne that was in the enlightened acne method. Chelsea: That's interesting. Estie Insider Podcast: Wow. Rebekah: What that that references traumatic skin. But on the other hand, like I'm so I love that shit when science-based and peer-reviewed studies, but at the same time, there's room for both. And I you notice Chelsea: Sure. Yes. Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. Rebekah: it in people like, you know, what are they going through when they're on their on your table? You know, they've been clear for so long and all of a sudden they're having a flare-up and their their skin is backsliding again. You know, they're going through a divorce. They had a baby and they are postpartum depression and super stressed out. Like it, it makes sense to us, but when it comes to on paper and all of these clinical studies that, you know, we're getting ripped apart for not having, then we we it get stitched and people say we don't know what we're talking Chelsea: I know. Rebekah: about. But we we see it. We've been seeing it for decades. Chelsea: Yes, yes. Rebekah: And I think that just I don't want people in I I like seeing aestheticians online talk about different approaches and the different things they use and the different philosophies that they have. Like that's why I have so Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. Factors and yeah. Rebekah: much respect for Morgan because it's not a very common philosophy. When it comes to acne, especially, Estie Insider Podcast: Mm. Mm-hmm. Rebekah: because everyone's just like, you know, go see a dermatologist. They don't this aesthetician doesn't know what she's talking about. She, some of her acne transformations, you if you can see people say, you know, that this client shouldn't have come to you. They should have gone to a dermatologist. It was that bad. But she cleared, she cleared them. Multi multiple types of like grade four acne. So it she knows what the hell she's doing. So Chelsea: Yeah. Yeah. Estie Insider Podcast: I have something to spin off that, I think, where you know how we do as face reality acting experts, we kinda do a holistic approach in terms of like supplements and no medication. Obviously, like all aestheticians kind of go that route. I've been seeing a lot of comments and videos on how that type of education, I don't know how to put this into words, but that type of education where we look at food, we look at supplements, we look at things that like lifestyle habits. is causing body dysmorphia and it's negative to the client and all of this. And it really, really pisses me off because there is a lot of factors that go into having acne that is lifestyle related food, what we're how we're treating our body, negative thoughts, trauma, all that. And so I just feel like it's so like wrong for them to just assume that we're like we're like setting the client up for a body dysmorphia or like food food trauma and things like that. When we're not, we're just trying to explain like These things that you do day to day can affect your acne, you know? Rebekah: Yes, if you are consuming, Chelsea: Sure. Rebekah: because I think here's the thing. This is another thing I was thinking of. People who have never taken again, I always keep going back to face reality because I will always defend them. People who have never people Estie Insider Podcast: I will always defend them. Chelsea: Ha. Rebekah: who have never taken the face reality course have a lot to say about it. They're saying Estie Insider Podcast: Yes. Rebekah: that we are giving out diet plans. They have never, yeah, Estie Insider Podcast: That's what it was, yes. Rebekah: they have never told us to do that. Ever. They have never told us to do that. Chelsea: Sure. No, no, they never have. Estie Insider Podcast: Never. They showed us what could contribute to acne. Do what you want Rebekah: Mm-hmm. Estie Insider Podcast: with it. Never, never put your c ac your client on a diet. Never ever. Don't ever do that. Rebekah: Yeah, they specifically told us not to give a diet plan. They basically told us to look at what you're look what you're doing in excess. If you do anything Estie Insider Podcast: Mm-hmm. Rebekah: in excess, are you Chelsea: Sure. Rebekah: consuming dairy for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks every day? So if you Estie Insider Podcast: Mm-hmm. Rebekah: do anything in excess, it is going to have an effect on your body. I have three things of caffeine in front of me. It's gonna have an effect on my body. Like I'm gonna feel like shit, but probably at the end of the day, I'm probably gonna sleep like shit tonight. I know that because that's what happens when you do things in an excess. So we're we're talking to our clients about what are where when can we have like a happy medium? How can we, you know, maybe eat almond milk or coconut yogurt three or four times a week and then you could have regular yogurt the other five or six times. You know, how do we have a balance? Estie Insider Podcast: Yes. How do we minimize then find the triggers? Chelsea: Yeah. Rebekah: So so I we're not causing body dysmorphia by giving them education on what where there is clinical studies I hate to use that word again. There is evidence about dairy exacerbating I Estie Insider Podcast: There is evidence. Chelsea: Sure. I Rebekah: there is. Chelsea: I think it all comes down to how it's presented. Because on the flip side, the three of us don't put our clients on diet plans. And the three of us don't to I never tell my client to cut something out completely. Or if I feel like it should, I'm like, you know what? Well, you let's let's find a dietitian, let's find a nutritionist so that you can, because I don't know, I do not have the knowledge. I can read clinical studies and I can read, okay, this could affect it, but I don't, I have not been trained on if somebody cuts something out of the diet, out of their diet, how's it going to affect the rest of their body? How's their body going to respond? I'm not trained on that. So I'm going to refer Rebekah: Mm-hmm. Chelsea: out. I have seen aestheticians, face reality aestheticians who post reels that have an entire list of don't eat this, don't eat that, stop this, do this, do that, that. And all of them The that particular list has nothing about skincare on it. It's all about and it's like, so I think the problem is is sure the three of us right here, but then there are aestheticians out there Estie Insider Podcast: Well. Rebekah: Who are giving us a bad rap. Yeah. Chelsea: doing that. Yes, it's Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. Chelsea: freaking social media. I hate social media. I'm so over it. Estie Insider Podcast: I hate it so much. Can we make an can we make a podcast Rebekah: I did too. Estie Insider Podcast: on having so much hatred towards it's so toxic. I'm like I've been wanting I've been talking about this for like a week. Chelsea: It really is. I don't I don't think we realize how bad it fucks us up. Seriously. Estie Insider Podcast: It it is so fucking bad. Rebekah: Speak for yourselves, I went viral last week. Estie Insider Podcast: my god. my god. Guys, wh who Chelsea: That's true. We got another viral Estie Insider Podcast: are we kidding, Chelsea? Like who are we kidding? We're in front Chelsea: queen. I know. It's true. It's true. Estie Insider Podcast: of a viral queen right now. Chelsea: I know. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Are you able to like I don't know how you got Rebekah: No autographs, no no photos. It's fine. Chelsea: to work. Are you able to leave your house? Estie Insider Podcast: Should we make the podcast about how you went viral? Rebekah: Listen, it is not all it cracks up to be. No. Estie Insider Podcast: Should we should we talk about yeah? Like this is how you go Rebekah: We can't Estie Insider Podcast: viral, kids. Rebekah: we could talk about it in shooting the shit. It'll be a fun little fun little segue. Estie Insider Podcast: Okay, yeah. No, but I Chelsea: Okay. Estie Insider Podcast: I do really want to talk about the the downside of social media and how I I really feel like we have sold ourselves to the devil with social media. Chelsea: Yes. Rebekah: Well, that's how this whole conversation came up is because I'm seeing people with this discourse online about like estheticians don't know what they're talking about. They don't have the scientific background to be, you know, recommending these things or to be saying that this product does X, Y, and Z. So that's kinda like Estie Insider Podcast: Have you seen our before and afters though? Rebekah: That's what I'm saying. So that's what I'm saying. There there is there needs to be a little nuance, you know. Chelsea: Yeah, no, I think I I think yes, Estie Insider Podcast: Like that's Chelsea: I think there's two sides of it. I really do. I'm not defending that like we don't know what we're talking about because clearly there are are thousands of aestheticians who have great before and afters, but you know, we can't stop you can't control what's gonna be gonna be said about. us as an industry, right? You can't, there's always going to be people who talk shit because they get on social media and they're trying to get views and they're trying to get engagement. And so the only time the only way it's going to stop on that side of it is like it when people don't engage and they don't give that attention. But I do Estie Insider Podcast: I've been ignoring it. Chelsea: I do think that we need to do our work to cut out the nonsense. Like we just for like that example, it's like, okay, there is what it is. And then you have people, so it's like, okay, my client, maybe I say, like, you know what, let's look and let's you're drinking a lot of energy drinks. There's a lot of biotin in it. Let's cut back on it. I think that's fine to say. But Rebekah: Mm-hmm. I do too. Chelsea: then my client goes on Instagram and sees an aesthetician who is like, do not ever drink energy drinks again. Cut it out, cut out eggs, cut out all this stuff. And then they're like, well, this esthetician said that I should stop doing that. My esthetician just told me to cut back. Do you see what I'm saying? Like, Rebekah: Yeah. Chelsea: we've got to cut out the nonsense in our own industry. Like we don't even respect each other. Let's be honest. Estie Insider Podcast: Well, regardless, their phone no, yeah. Rebekah: Well, whose responsibility is it to cut out the nonsense? Because like I'm not gonna be out there policing people because I don't give a shit. I mean I do, but you know. Chelsea: No, exactly. So it's just like, I know. It's Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah respect. Chelsea: it's up to us. And until it's not so it's like, I think it's people are you're not gonna stop the nonsense that's being said. You just have to control how you react to it. You Rebekah: That's true. Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. Chelsea: know what I'm saying? Like, so when people until people stop engaging and reacting and let it and taking it personal and like, I've got a fight with this person. Rebekah: That's true. Chelsea: And they're getting the attention that they're wanting from posting a negative post. And so until it's Rebekah: I can so see how people how we take it personally though. I can see like it is a blow to Chelsea: Yeah, it's hard. Rebekah: what we've been building. It's a blow to your career, it's a blow to everything that you have been built on. So I get how Chelsea: Sure. Absolutely. Yeah. Rebekah: it can be it can feel personal, but like at the end of the day, Chelsea: Totally. Rebekah: you don't know who the F these people are on the internet. Like who gives a shit? Yeah. Yeah. Chelsea: I know, I know. You know, something, yeah, something that I learned Estie Insider Podcast: And it's gonna be gone tomorrow. Chelsea: a couple of years ago. I heard this and I was like, this is a good way to look at things. And I'm not saying that I'm not saying I live my life perfectly like this, but it kind of if I can like pause, if I see something that I'm like, what is this person talking about? Why would they say that? That's mean, that's all that they're annoying, all this stuff. So the the scenarios is is or scenario is imagine that you're like on your dream vacation. You're at this beautiful resort, you're, you know, laying out by the pool, obviously very well sunscreened, but you're laying there, you're enjoying your time, and then all of a sudden you you are getting splashed on. You're and you're like like over the bushes, there's splashing, there's water that's getting and you're like getting annoyed. And you're like, what is like why why is someone acting like this at a really nice resort? Why are they why are they bothering me? And then So you go over to say something and then you look behind the bushes, and this person is actually drowning in the pool and they're flailing. Rebekah: god, that's sad. Chelsea: Yes. So when so think of it as these people who are pissing us off on the internet, like there is something going on with them to that they are going on and posting, trying to get validation, trying to get like what kind of place are they in that they feel the need to go on the internet and piss everybody off. Rebekah: Hmm. Chelsea: And so instead of, you know, I'm not gonna go up to somebody who's drowning and be like, you're annoying. You're gonna, you know, it's so I'm not saying that this is an easy way to live. I don't know if this even Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah, stop drowning. Get get yourself up right now. Rebekah: Yeah. Chelsea: makes sense, but it's like if you if you Estie Insider Podcast: No, it's it's deep. It's deep. Chelsea: take a pause Rebekah: Yeah. Chelsea: and you're like, okay, something's going on with this person. And it's not it's not to excuse Estie Insider Podcast: That they're projecting their they're causing Chelsea: the behavior, right? It's just to it's just to be like, you know what? They've got something going on. I don't need I don't need a interact with them. I don't need to fight back with them. Like it puts you in a better place to like be able to just move on. Rebekah: Every time I see a troll now I'm gonna be like, my god, that's so sad. It's so sad. You poor thing. You poor thing. Chelsea: They're drowning. They're drowning. Estie Insider Podcast: The drowning. Also, I've had to like put myself Chelsea: Right? I know it's like heartbreaking, but I'm like, but you're still dumb. No. Estie Insider Podcast: But I've also had to take a step back and I was thinking about this on the drive home from my studio today is that our algorithm for our business page that we pour so much time and energy energy into is circled around aestheticians and it's all aestheticians, Rebekah: Yes. Estie Insider Podcast: it's all business owners, it's Chelsea: Yes, yeah. Estie Insider Podcast: all skincare companies. my God, your friends have a completely different algorithm and it's really not that serious. So then I'm like, Chelsea: Yes, yes, yes. Rebekah: They have no idea. No, it's not. Estie Insider Podcast: I have to tell myself that my 'cause when I get imposter syndrome or I start feeling shitty Chelsea: Yes. Estie Insider Podcast: about myself because of social media, I'm like, wait, if I just go on my personal account, none of this matters. I out of sight, out of mind. And we are in a funnel. And and people Rebekah: Yes. It's so true. We're in a funnel. We're in like a bottle. Yeah. Chelsea: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Estie Insider Podcast: that are, you know, doctors are gonna have that, you know, algorithm and it's gonna be like all these, you know, all these things. And it's like it and lawyers and AI and all this. but I just that's how I remind myself that it's really not that serious. Stop beating yourself up. You're comparing yourself to somebody that your Chelsea: Yes. Estie Insider Podcast: friends don't even know and that aren't gonna come it's not gonna come up in your day to day. So it's like, why Rebekah: So true. Estie Insider Podcast: are you so fixated on it? And it that has helped me so much with blocking out the noise and all this drama that's happening in the industry or shitting on us because it's like, you know, our your friends aren't gonna talk about it because they're not gonna know about it because as assuming they're not aestheticians and things like that. Chelsea: Yeah. Yeah. Rebekah: It's so true. Chelsea: Well, and and two, you Estie Insider Podcast: That helps me. Chelsea: know, I think there are going to be doctors who don't like aestheticians. They think we're dumb. But we can't assume that because we see a video online, a real online, about a doctor that doesn't that all doctors don't value us. I have Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. Chelsea: several clients who are doctors and they are Rebekah: Mm. Chelsea: they come in, they ask me questions, they want advice. That and I'm kind sometimes I'm sitting there, I'm like, You're a doctor. Like you should know this. Rebekah: this local dermatologist. I have a local dermatologist. I have no clue who they are. They recommend people to me all the time and I have no clue who they are. Yeah. I appreciate Chelsea: Which is amazing. So it's like Rebekah: that. Chelsea: yes. Yes. Yes. Cause Estie Insider Podcast: They have their specialty, they have their niche, and then they know when to when to outsour outsource. Rebekah: Yes, they don't yeah. Chelsea: you know, just because it's like I think we start putting so much self worth into our titles. Everybody does. I'm not not ev not aestheticians. And when when you start putting self worth into your career or your title, you know, anybody who's like against it, you're gonna take it like, they think I'm a piece of crap and you know, I Rebekah: Yeah. Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. Chelsea: I don't have any value. Estie Insider Podcast: I have a good my my naturopath client, she came in and the first day that I was gonna meet her, I was like, She's a naturopath. Why is she coming in to me to clear her skin? Like she should know like what foods are good and what things are good for her skin. But she was like, that's just not my specialty. That's not my my niche. And so she came to somebody else to Yeah. Chelsea: Yeah, and f food's not the whole food's not the whole puzzle. it to me, it's like, I think it's up to instead of just taking a video at like, all doctors hate me, it's like we can put the effort into building our own community. To me, I'm like, well, why, you know, cosmetic chemists don't hate aestheticians. Why don't I reach out and try to be friends with a cosmetic chemist that I can learn from? And then they Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. Chelsea: can learn from me of like, hey. You say this about this product, but this is what I see in the treatment room. Because I think, you Estie Insider Podcast: In the Germany, yeah. Chelsea: know, we need products developed correctly and safely and and effective. And but there's also value in the person, the feedback from the person who works directly with the consumer. It's like this is what I see Rebekah: Correct. Chelsea: in the treatment room. There is value in that. And yes. Rebekah: There should be value in that, yeah. Estie Insider Podcast: Well, we we do that with face reality. They they on our quarter calls, they ask us, you know, advice on in the treatment room, how is this working for you? Or when they repackage their formula or their products, they were like, How is this working? how is it going for the clients? are they liking it? You know, how when they repackage the the cleanser and the toner and all that. they need that advice too. Yes, they're in product development and packaging and all that, but they like to know how are people enjoying it? Just 'cause it looks good does doesn't mean that it's actually working good or, you know. So I do agree with that. Chelsea: Yeah. So I think I think when you put the effort into like building your own community where you have your own personal experience with like, yeah, the this cosmetic chemist and I have a really good relationship. We can talk to each other about stuff. We respect each other. this doctor is respectful and we can talk about things and I can learn from them. I think when you build your own little community of it, you don't care what everybody else is saying. It doesn't affect you anymore because you've got Rebekah: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. Chelsea: You've you've got your personal experience with it. I don't know. Estie Insider Podcast: So to recap, we're in our bubble, aesthetician bubble on social media. There's a life outside of that bubble. Number two is when someone's splashing at you, they're probably drowning. And so don't judge a book by its cover. They're probably going through something, they're projecting something. Chelsea: Sure. And again, that's that's a very that takes a long time to but it it it has helped me Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. Chelsea: to not be so reactive. If I can pause Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. Chelsea: and think about that, it helps me h work on my empathy for people. And you know. Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. And we need to stop dividing the professions and start just we have our own thing. Each Chelsea: I know, it's like just let's just w like Estie Insider Podcast: person has their own thing. There's nothing wrong with it. And holistic or science based, whatever, like just do what you want to do. Do like do what works for you and what where you have success in that. And that can be a mix of both. Rebekah: Amen. Amen. Chelsea: Yeah, and I I yeah, I think that's great. I think it again it's all how it's presented. If you get on and you're condescending and you're preaching and you're making if you're sounding like your view is the only way and this is how it should be done, then it's people don't learn from that. But if you get on there and you're like, Hey, I see this in my treatment room, this is Estie Insider Podcast: Bye. Yeah. This is what yeah. Yeah. Chelsea: what I do, it has worked for me and and let's Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. Chelsea: have a discussion about it, it's so much more productive to have a discussion instead of a fight. And Estie Insider Podcast: Yeah. I'm like, I'm right, you're wrong. You don't know this because you're not this. Yeah. Chelsea: Yes, yes. Estie Insider Podcast: So that is our I don't know what we would title this episode. Rebekah: I don't even know. It was all over the place, but thanks for thanks for letting me just Estie Insider Podcast: Thanks for tuning in. Chelsea: I need to go I need to go watch your TikTok. Rebekah: Yeah, thanks for just letting me yap. And these are the things that pop into my brain when I'm driving. Chelsea: Yeah. Rebekah: Well, thanks for listening, folks. See ya next time. Estie Insider Podcast: right, thanks for listening. Chelsea: Bye. Estie Insider Podcast: Bye bye. Thanks for tuning into the SD Insider podcast. If you love today's episode, please be sure to follow, share, and leave us a review. We'd love to hear from you. Send us a DM on Instagram at the SD Insider podcast with topics you'd want to learn about on our next episode. Remember, exfoliate responsibly, and we'll see you next week.