Latest / The Payments Shed / Ep. 26 - Exploring Strategy, Leadership & Diversity in Payments with Sara Savidge

Transcript

Ep. 26 - Exploring Strategy, Leadership & Diversity in Payments with Sara Savidge · The Payments Shed

0:00
Welcome to the payment Shed podcast, the weekly podcast that
0:03
dives into the big topics, trends and people shaping the
0:06
world's of payments, fintech and business leadership of your two
0:09
Co hosts, myself Grant Heavens and Justin Hannah.
0:13
Welcome to another episode of the payment shed podcast.
0:15
Today we are very lucky to be joined by Sarah Savage, CEO of
0:19
Fexco International payments. Sarah, welcome to the payment
0:22
shed. It's.
0:22
Great to be here guys. Great to see you both.
0:24
Please can you introduce yourself, tell us a little bit
0:27
about your career in payments today and where you're at now
0:29
with? So yeah, I'm Sarah Savage.
0:31
I'm a woman in payments, been knocking around in the industry
0:34
for around 30 years now. Yes, I joined when I was very,
0:37
very young, my background. So as you mentioned, I lead and
0:42
I'm responsible for the international payments business
0:44
at FEXCO. I'm there around 2 years.
0:46
And prior to that, I led the global expansion agenda for JP
0:50
Morgan Payments covering Asia Pacific, covering the Latin
0:54
American markets and the EMEA markets as well.
0:57
So basically responsible and tasked with driving the growth
1:00
across the merchant acquiring business, which was pretty
1:02
exciting. And then prior to that, I was
1:05
first Data and now Faisov. I'm doing pretty much the same
1:08
gig. I've been in payments, as
1:09
mentioned, for three decades now and started off my career in
1:13
Barclays, pounding the streets, actually in this neck of the
1:16
woods here in the city and southeast of London, selling
1:20
point of sale terminals. So a lot's changed, but so much
1:23
has stayed the same. Every everyone seemed to cut
1:25
their teeth on point of sale at some point, didn't they?
1:28
Yeah, working down South Bank, making sure that you had your
1:31
quota by by Wednesday afternoon, otherwise you couldn't go home.
1:34
Because you'd also cheat you, but yeah.
1:36
No, it's good, good times and it does.
1:37
It's like you say, you, you cut your teeth and being in a, in a
1:42
sales role gives you, teaches you that accountability, that
1:45
responsibility, but also the grit and determination.
1:49
So yeah. So, origin stories, Barclays,
1:51
but what first drew you into payments specifically?
1:56
I don't know that anybody really did well.
1:58
I certainly didn't decide that payments was for me.
2:02
I was working in Barclays. I was at Barclays for around 16
2:04
years. I was on the personal and the
2:07
consumer side and I loved it. But it was based in the branch.
2:11
I was in Tunbridge Wells and the thing with the branch banking is
2:15
you had to be there at a certain time, you had certain
2:18
responsibilities that you needed to achieve and then you finished
2:21
your day at half five and then you drive home and then this
2:24
amazing role came up with Barclays Merchant Services and
2:27
you managed your own diary. They gave you a little company
2:29
car, a Rover 400, which for me was great at the time and the
2:34
ability to be able to sell. And I, I knew I wanted to be in
2:38
sales. I, I, I really enjoyed
2:40
delivering great value for customers.
2:42
I really enjoyed that interaction.
2:44
I'm a bit of a, a social butterfly.
2:46
So having the opportunity to sit in front of customers of all
2:50
sizes. So, you know, small to medium
2:52
sized enterprises and the really big organizations that we
2:55
supported, being able to, to really help them.
2:57
And I think at that particular time, the late 90s, it was the
3:02
thestartofthe.com bubble. So white point, point of sale.
3:05
My car would have been loaded with point of sale devices with
3:08
the old zip ZAP. You guys probably don't remember
3:10
the zip ZAP they were. They were hanging about.
3:12
Yeah, they were the, they were the contingency when phone lines
3:15
went down and we was even given little knee pads to be able to
3:19
help install under the desks and that kind of good stuff.
3:22
But it was at the time where payments were really starting to
3:25
shift online and a lot of large organisations and, and smaller
3:29
businesses that saw the opportunity that the World Wide
3:32
Web would open for them. And it became a real quandary, a
3:36
real problem. And I, I, I love to solve
3:38
problems. So being able to, to sit down
3:40
and identify how to take an organization that's been hugely
3:43
successful in the bricks and mortar space to all of a sudden
3:47
to try and encourage them to sell online, to take that leap,
3:51
to take that step and invest. I kind of moved into that space
3:56
and show us where I've been pretty much ever since.
3:58
I wouldn't change it for, for, for the world.
4:00
I think what it teaches you is that everything is possible.
4:05
I remember I worked with a inward investment unit in
4:08
Barclays and I remember a, a crowd coming over and they
4:11
wanted to talk to us about escrow accounts and this new
4:14
opportunity of being able to support payments online.
4:17
And with myself and my boss at the time were kind of like, is
4:20
this going to take off? You may have heard of them.
4:22
They're called PayPal, right? So to have been involved in
4:25
payments at that stage where everything was really starting
4:28
to shift and change, we were moving to the new type of
4:31
terminals, we were moving online and consumer expectations were
4:35
changing. So it was a really exciting
4:37
time. And I think even now when I look
4:39
back over the last three decades, so much has changed.
4:42
But the fundamentals of payments, moving money from one
4:45
place to another, it's exactly the same.
4:47
It's just how we do it that's shifted.
4:49
Perfect. And you mentioned LC by always
4:51
want to be a salesperson. I couldn't agree more.
4:55
You've been from that salesperson to ACEO role, what
4:59
kind of is driven that that kind of change and what's mentored
5:02
you and and have you learnt to get to where you are today?
5:05
Yes, so I, I'm involved in a number of different forums and
5:09
communities. Women in sales is something I'm
5:11
very passionate about that particular community.
5:13
And whilst my badge has changed over the years, just you know,
5:16
I'm, I'm, I'm still a sales girl by trade, right.
5:18
So whether you're selling to customers, whether you're
5:21
selling internally to the board, whether you're selling you know
5:23
the vision to your your colleagues and your team, that
5:26
sales aspect. Is still there.
5:28
The difference from being sales girl to being ACEO and and
5:33
having responsibility for a, for a large organization, it is very
5:37
different. But I think for me when I look
5:40
at what I've learned throughout that journey of accountability,
5:44
sales, as you well know, sales teaches you accountability, It
5:47
teaches you ownership, It teaches you that you can't do
5:49
anything on your own. So transitioning to becoming
5:53
ACEO for me in terms of that leadership aspect is still very,
5:57
very similar. What is extremely different is
6:00
regulation is around operations compliance, making sure that you
6:04
tick every single box, making sure that not only do you take
6:08
the obligations you have as a leader and as ACEO really
6:12
seriously and that you are fully compliant, you've got that
6:14
personal accountability framework as well.
6:16
So if something goes wrong, it's me that goes to jail.
6:19
So that's a. Little, it's a little bit
6:21
different, right, a little bit different.
6:23
It is. But I think if you, you know,
6:26
you, you guys who've been in sales for a long, long time
6:28
yourself, you know, if you sell with integrity, if you treat
6:32
people, my mum always taught me you treat people as you wish to
6:34
be treated yourself. And if you do that, you can't go
6:37
wrong. So if you live by those
6:38
standards, if you adopt those values at a very early stage in
6:41
your career, transitioning as you grow, the skill sets I've
6:45
got now are 1,000,000 miles away to the skill sets I had when I
6:48
first started in sales. You can teach skills, you can
6:51
impart knowledge. You can't change your
6:53
personality. That hunger, that drive is still
6:56
there. And.
6:57
Whilst a lot of CE OS, I think part of the the Institute of
7:01
Directors and a lot of CE OS come from either a finance or an
7:04
operations background. So having that sales acumen,
7:08
that vision, that drive for growth, I think it complements
7:12
the CEO role definitely. And are there specific moments
7:15
or mentors during your career that you think have kind of
7:19
shaped your own leadership style?
7:21
Definitely. I know what good leadership
7:24
looks like and I think we'll leave that one there, right?
7:28
So. You, you know, I think when
7:30
you've had great leaders to learn from, it teaches you a
7:33
lot. But every leader that you have,
7:35
every boss that you've worked for and with you pick up skills
7:39
either what you, what you, what you aspire to be, and perhaps
7:43
maybe skills that you know that you never, never need to, to, to
7:47
bring out or you don't need to work on.
7:48
And I think for me, when I look at some of those influences in
7:52
my career, the, the, for, for me, there's, there's four key
7:56
influences in everybody's career, right?
7:58
The first one is a role model. So these are the people that you
8:02
look up to. These are the people that
8:03
inspire you. These are the people that you
8:05
perhaps maybe aspire to be. And I I'm going to use it
8:08
because I'm a huge Liverpool. Fan Jurgen Klopp, right?
8:12
Not just because of the silverware that he had and the
8:15
way he galvanised the team. He had a he had a he had a good
8:18
team. He didn't have a great team and
8:19
he certainly didn't have a huge amount of money to to build that
8:21
team. But the way that he conducted
8:23
himself, the way that he galvanised and pulled the team
8:26
together, the way that he got a bunch of players off the pitch
8:29
as well as on the pitch to really have impact.
8:32
But also flip side of that, the way that he rallied the fans,
8:36
whether you're a Liverpool. Fan or not, that that leadership
8:40
style that Jurgen Klopp has as well as that amazing smile.
8:44
You know, they are that that he is renowned as being a a
8:47
fantastic leader. So when you look at the kind of
8:49
role models you look and I pick out, these are the type of
8:52
skills and attributes that I really admire.
8:54
The way that he manages the media, the way that he's no
8:57
nonsense, cuts out the bull. He's he's very inspirational
9:01
that way. So that role model is is the
9:03
first one. The second one is around a
9:05
coach. So these are the people that
9:07
stood on the sidelines for me saying, Sarah, you need to run
9:10
fast, you need to do that. That was really bad.
9:13
Why on earth did you say that? That was fantastic.
9:15
They pick you up. They keep your feet on the
9:17
ground. So those coaches, sometimes for
9:20
me, it was colleagues that I worked with, sometimes it was my
9:23
boss, sometimes it was my partner, my parents, my friends,
9:25
my kids. These are the people that keep
9:28
you grounded but really push and motivate you to do better.
9:32
The third one is the mentors and you, you highlighted that right,
9:35
Grant so. When I first started in in
9:37
payments there, there weren't too many females to look up to.
9:41
There's this great for saying isn't there?
9:43
If you can't see it, you can't be it.
9:45
There were very few females in senior positions.
9:48
So I found naturally found mentors within my own
9:51
organization and outside. And I'm still blessed to be
9:54
mentored by people that I worked with 20-30 years ago, either as
9:58
clients, as partners or indeed as ex bosses.
10:01
So mentorship is really important, but I think sometimes
10:06
it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a line and it's a badge
10:09
that is over utilised. People sometimes don't always
10:12
need mentorship. What they need is sponsorship.
10:15
And that's the 4th and final one.
10:17
Having somebody that will sit in a room where you're not to talk
10:21
about you to, to, to advocate for you.
10:24
Those sponsors really and truly are the people that can be the
10:28
difference between a a promotion or perhaps maybe another year on
10:32
that wait list. They're the people that like I
10:35
say, talk about you when they're not there, but they're also the
10:37
people. It's not like it's, it's not
10:40
like saying, for example, a mentor, you can approach someone
10:42
and say, will you be my mentor? I really value you as your, you
10:45
know, as, as, as my coach or I look up to you as a role model.
10:49
Sponsors a little bit different. Sponsorship is it's not, it's
10:53
not like being at school you can go up.
10:54
Will you be my girlfriend? Will you be my boyfriend?
10:57
It's around. These people are naturally your
10:59
sponsors. They either advocate for you and
11:02
they think you're great or they see opportunity in you.
11:05
And I think a lot of people underestimate that.
11:07
They go for mentorship rather than sponsorship.
11:11
I love that. I think that's a great answer.
11:13
And I think what one transition I have seen is more Gen.
11:17
Z, newer entrants to the payments and financial services.
11:20
You can see some messaging people.
11:22
You know, I've had a few people that I've, I've done mentorship
11:24
for, but they seem less afraid to ask for that mentorship.
11:27
And maybe that's because we're more vocal about, you know,
11:30
those sort of four pillars that you talk about now and and that
11:32
people should be leaning into that little bit a little bit
11:35
more. It is, it is.
11:36
And I think for anybody coming into the industry or whatever
11:40
stage in their career, know what those 4 pillars are.
11:44
Who inspires you? Who's going to keep you on the
11:46
straight and narrow and make you do better?
11:48
Who's going to help you bring out the magic from within.
11:51
And that's really what the mentor does.
11:52
And then who's going to talk about when you when you're not
11:54
there? Knowing who those people are in
11:57
your career, writing them down at the back of your book so that
12:00
you can be quite strategic and intentional about the
12:03
conversations that you have with them.
12:05
I think that's where people can really separate and catapult
12:08
themselves to the next level. And then on top of that, what
12:11
would be the then the single biggest lesson that you've
12:14
learnt about yourself as a leader?
12:18
That I don't know everything, right.
12:20
I think sometimes as a don't know as a, as a leader, as a
12:25
mother, as a partner, as a colleague, you know, you, you
12:30
try to do everything really, really well.
12:32
And I think there's two aspects for this on the on the
12:34
professional level, in the fact that self-awareness is key,
12:38
right? Know your strengths, know what
12:39
you're good at. I know that I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm,
12:42
I'm really strong in these particular areas, but I know
12:44
these are the areas that I either don't enjoy as much or
12:48
perhaps maybe struggle with. So what I try and do is I make
12:51
sure that I surround myself with a very diverse team of people
12:55
that have those strengths and skill sets that I know that I
12:59
lack. And I think that self-awareness
13:01
piece is absolutely critical. And I think in again, I go back
13:05
to in sales, you know that you can't do that job on your own.
13:08
You know, you have to to lean on various individuals within the
13:12
organization to get what you need to be done to get that
13:15
client live, to get the revenue flowing and to satisfy the to
13:18
solve the challenge that that particular client has.
13:21
It's no different in the CEO role right now.
13:24
It's being able to, like I say, surround yourself with people
13:27
that are smarter than you, that are more ambitious than you,
13:30
that are hungrier than you, that bring a completely different
13:33
skill set to you. Like I, you know, as I say, I'm,
13:36
I'm knocking around in the industry for a long, long time.
13:38
I've got a lot of experience, a lot of expertise, but the
13:40
reality is the payments landscape shifts every single
13:44
year. There is something new.
13:45
There is something more exciting and more challenging.
13:48
And unless you've got the right succession plans in place,
13:51
unless you've got the right people with the skill sets that
13:54
the broader organization needs, the company won't be successful.
13:58
Perfect. And you mentioned LC, the
14:00
payments industry, we know it kind of never stand still, kind
14:02
of watch your thoughts and how would you describe the direction
14:06
of change over the last few years in, in the payments
14:08
industry it's? Cracky.
14:10
It's mad, it's crazy, right? But it's exciting as well.
14:13
And I think, you know, I, I, I talked a little earlier around,
14:17
you know, the shift and the change in the late 90s, what was
14:19
happening therearoundthe.com bubble.
14:22
There's always something new happening in payments.
14:24
And, and people often say to me, you know, you've been in the
14:26
industry for a long, long time. How come, how do you keep it
14:29
fresh? How do you keep excited?
14:31
And the reality is, is every single year there is something
14:34
new. And I think where the industry
14:37
is going over the next sort of five to 10 years, it's around
14:41
more automation, right? It's, it's, it's around, I
14:45
suppose, taking the tools and technology and hype that you
14:47
hear so much about and making it relevant for the buying
14:50
community. The shift in change over
14:53
probably the last five years. We've seen more, more change in
14:55
the last five years than we have in the last 25 to 30, that's for
14:59
sure. And it won't slow down.
15:01
It definitely won't slow down, but I, I, I see a big shift just
15:06
in from. It always used to be the core
15:09
providers, the big acquirers, the payment solutions
15:12
organizations, the technology companies.
15:14
They had a solution and we used to take it to market and
15:17
customers would either find it useful or they wouldn't adopt.
15:23
Now it's shifted. The consumer is driving what
15:27
we're delivering, what we're building and the way that
15:30
technology is evolving. And I think that's the biggest
15:32
shift that I see in terms of consumers, us, you and me as,
15:36
as, as consumers, but also organizations, companies, small
15:40
to small to medium sized entities, large corporates as
15:43
consumers of technology or payments technology, they are
15:47
driving what we see across the industry that's being built.
15:51
So those organizations that would have taken 1 product off
15:54
the self and, and, and tried to sell to everybody, it's no
15:57
longer valid. And the challenge in that space
16:00
is that building bespoke solutions for individual
16:02
companies is costly. Some do it very, very well.
16:07
Some organisations, you know, they, they don't do bespoke
16:10
builds and it is one-size-fits-all and it serves
16:14
a particular market. But to really address the
16:16
challenges in the industry that large organisations are facing,
16:20
there has to be some sort of flexibility.
16:22
So I think what I'm most excited about is that those that consume
16:26
payment services, they're coming to providers to say this is my
16:30
problem, I need you to fix this. And those organisations
16:35
traditionally would have gone well.
16:36
If it doesn't fit within this box, we can't help.
16:39
Now in the last five years or so, organisations big and small
16:43
are saying OK, how can we fix that for you?
16:46
And that's what makes it so exciting in payments that there
16:48
is always a new problem that needs to be solved.
16:51
I think merchants are becoming so much more intelligent when it
16:53
comes to payments, right? So merchants sometimes are
16:56
coming to gateways and acquirers and saying, hey, this is what I
17:00
need, this is my problem, you need to build this for me as
17:04
opposed to can I have some help? We're always going to rely on
17:06
our acquirers, right, to give us an understanding of the payments
17:09
world. But merchants have upskilled
17:11
themselves and there's events out there now where merchants
17:14
are going to them at some events and telling the rest of the
17:17
industry what they're looking for.
17:19
And then and it's almost like a race they they go out to market
17:22
and you've got all of these providers looking to say, right,
17:24
what can I build? So when I think about Fix Co
17:27
Payments as a as a broader organization, it's interesting
17:31
so many people just think of FEXCO as being DCC.
17:34
Now admittedly, we created it. We invented it back in sort of
17:38
like the 80s and 90s. We solved a problem for a
17:42
particular demographic of merchants and we were proud to
17:46
do so as the industry's moved on.
17:49
DCC is still a very core part of our organization, but we've
17:54
obviously got our international payments business that I run and
17:56
we also have our orchestration business.
17:58
And it's interesting, just when you talk about customers come to
18:02
providers or go to industry events and they say this is my
18:05
problem, that's exactly what happened with our Pay Unite, our
18:08
orchestration business. One of our key DCC clients came
18:12
to us and said this is the problem that we're facing and it
18:14
was how to manage multiple different acquirers and multiple
18:18
different payment methods and the challenge that they had
18:21
across the contact centre, across the E com environment and
18:24
also point of sale. So, so we created that solution
18:27
for them. And so here we are six years
18:30
later with around 35% market share in the industry, you know,
18:34
and, and taking those solutions, taking those problems and then
18:38
being able to say, right, how do I adapt that for the broader
18:42
population is quite exciting. There's a lot to unpack in that.
18:45
I think, you know, just going back to your prior point around
18:50
building for all, all the many rather than the one, I think
18:54
that's something a lot of payment companies have been
18:55
culpable of over the years. And you could probably argue
18:57
that strike for one of the first ones that came along and said
19:00
we're just going to A, not call ourselves a payments company,
19:02
we're broader than that. But B, we're going to continue
19:05
building as many different products and things that we see.
19:08
There's, you know, blockers for our, our merchants and then they
19:10
just sat there on the shelf, right?
19:12
And you can self-service them. It's, it's a great model to
19:14
have. And I think others have started
19:16
to follow suit with that. But you do still see, see
19:18
reactive builds going on. I mean, certainly a, a
19:21
particular gateway I worked in a few years ago, we, we kind of
19:23
won RFP's off the back of saying we could do a couple of things
19:26
that were then rushed onto Rd. maps, right?
19:28
And you were building for that large customer that you did
19:31
maybe not expect to win in the RFP.
19:33
And you do win it. And then it's OK, crap, we need
19:35
to build this now, guys. So you see a little bit of that
19:37
you talked about DCC or dynamic currency conversion as one of
19:40
your core products as well. I think most people are probably
19:43
interactive with with DCC on their travels at some point.
19:45
Can you just maybe just explain what DCC is and and how that
19:49
works and the benefits that that gives end and customers I guess
19:52
that are using the product? Yeah.
19:53
So when when you travel abroad to a different country with a
19:57
different currency and you tap or you put your card in to pay
20:00
at point of sale, you're given a choice.
20:02
You can either pay in the local currency or you can pay in your
20:05
own home currency. So when those transactions go
20:08
through as a consumer, you get to to choose, you either take
20:12
the random rate that your bank applies and you're never quite
20:16
sure what that will be or you guarantee that when it hits your
20:18
bank account, a set amount is, is debited.
20:22
And I think you know, as a consumer having that clarity at
20:27
the point of sale and also that choice.
20:29
The reality is, is that when when money is converted, the FX
20:32
transaction, there is money to be made.
20:35
It's whether or not, you know, the bank takes it or a or the
20:39
merchant and payment processor take it.
20:42
But ultimately there is a, there is a cost of conversion for me
20:46
as a consumer, I always like to know what it is.
20:49
It's going to hit my bank account.
20:51
I've seen some transactions go through, you know, charging
20:54
anything up to six, 7%, you know, is applied by the bank.
20:59
Yeah. So that was going to be one of
21:01
my shelf of shame, but I saw that it was already listed, so I
21:03
couldn't use it. But yeah, the the cost of
21:06
international payments and what DCC does is say it gives a a
21:09
much more positive buying experience for the consumer.
21:12
And that obviously happens in an online environment as well.
21:15
Knowing exactly what's going to hit your bank account is really
21:18
important for consumers. And just on facts, because then
21:20
you know it's a founding force of DCC, you know Fexco I think
21:24
is synonymous with DCC as a product, right?
21:26
But that has LED into you guys being a very big historically B
21:30
to B brand, right? So a lot of acquirers, PSPS
21:32
would partner with you guys. You have that significant B to B
21:35
channel. You've talked about the
21:37
international business and the orchestration business.
21:39
Is that pivot effects go a little bit away from B to B into
21:42
more B to C channels? So, so, so, so FX currency
21:48
conversion is definitely how we started back in the 80s, right?
21:52
But since then, we've grown into a bit of a global success story,
21:57
not just in terms of the DCC. We're processing in the region
22:02
of around 37 billion each and every single year.
22:05
We've got hundreds and hundreds of thousands of merchants that
22:09
are live with us across the globe and we do that in
22:11
partnership with I'd say just just shy of 100 payment
22:15
processors and acquirers that we partner with.
22:18
So, so we're kind of like a, a silent partner.
22:20
The the acquirers still maintain and manage and look after their
22:23
clients, but we provide the capability for them around DCC.
22:27
But like you mentioned, Grant our, our business has evolved
22:29
quite significantly. We've always had the
22:31
international payments business that's been operational for the
22:34
last 30 years or so. Our customer base tends to be
22:37
very large global corporations, payment processes as well as
22:42
government entities, state organizations too.
22:45
And then obviously we have our payments orchestration business
22:48
as well, which is very prominent in the cruise industry, but
22:51
moving into other verticals as well, but outside of that.
22:54
So, so, so FEXCO itself has essentially we've got 4 lines of
22:58
business. So we've got the payments
23:00
business, right, which is really critical to our, to our
23:03
organization and critical to our revenues as well.
23:07
It's probably the larger part of our business, but we also have
23:10
our managed services business. So managed services.
23:13
So a lot of large corporations that have call centres, that's
23:18
us sitting behind the a bit behind the scenes.
23:21
So we manage and we look after those different services for a
23:26
range of different organizations as say including government
23:28
entities as well. We have our property services.
23:31
So we have around 300,000 properties under management
23:36
dotted across the globe. So primarily we have about
23:38
200,000 in Australia and we've got about 100,000 properties in
23:42
the UK and Wales as well. So property management is
23:46
really, really important part of our business.
23:48
And then the last areas around innovation, I guess Vexco and
23:53
McCarthy family have always been so incredibly passionate and
23:56
real innovators, entrepreneurs right at heart.
23:58
And that's pretty much how Vexco was was established in the 80s,
24:02
right? Brian McCarthy, you know, came
24:04
up with this idea of trying to solve these problems for Irish
24:07
tourists, Sorry, US tourists that were visiting kind of
24:10
Kerry, right? How do you how do you improve
24:13
the experience? How do you perhaps maybe
24:15
capitalize on the opportunity there so that that that
24:18
innovation, that entrepreneurial mindset is right at the very,
24:23
very core of Fax Co. And for us, we continue to Co
24:26
create, we continue to invest. MNA is a very, very important
24:31
part of our strategy and continues to be, but also the
24:34
growth of our business. We also have a number of retail
24:38
FX stores across the UK and Ireland and you probably saw in
24:44
recent times our acquisition of the Sainsbury's travel money
24:48
business as well. So I suppose you know, for us
24:51
payments is key, but cash is still king in a lot of places
24:55
and being able to offer opportunities for our business
24:59
to grow on the back of inclusivity is really important
25:03
as well. If you think about it, you know,
25:05
if you, if you have to travel to your bank to convert currency to
25:09
take away on holiday, it doesn't feel as inclusive, right,
25:14
Because a lot of the banks are closing down, high streets are
25:17
becoming, you know, quite barren in places.
25:19
Whereas Sainsbury's has an amazing footprint and they'd
25:22
built an incredible business with their travel management,
25:25
travel money solutions. So it seemed like a natural fit
25:28
for us when we were looking at different M&A opportunities.
25:31
The Payment Shed Podcast is proudly sponsored by Tammy AI,
25:34
the market intelligence and lead generation platform built for
25:37
sales and marketing teams who want precision, not guesswork.
25:41
Tammy helps businesses identify their best fit prospects, gain
25:44
deep market insights and boost revenue growth.
25:47
And it really has become the go to solution for the payments and
25:50
fintech industries. Both Justin and I have used the
25:52
tool in previous organizations that we've been in and we really
25:55
can't recommend it highly enough.
25:57
There's a link in the bio to click on the Tammy website and
26:00
find out more about their product.
26:01
You really won't regret it, It's fascinating.
26:04
I didn't. I genuinely didn't realise that
26:05
Fesco had that many different lines of business and very
26:08
diverse lines of business. As well.
26:10
Yeah. And as I say, you know, the,
26:12
the, the, the four key lines of business, you know, it's
26:15
important to highlight, but we've got around 3000 people
26:18
dotted across the globe. We've got operations, clients
26:20
and people in over 50 countries, right.
26:23
And if you look at that a little bit more than just that DCC
26:27
business that we all grow up, grew up in the payments industry
26:29
thinking that's all FEXCO was and it's so much broader than
26:32
that. And you mentioned opportunities
26:34
there and obviously the the Sainsbury's opportunity
26:36
presents, you know you can leverage that fantastic brand,
26:39
maybe timing was right for them to exit and it was time for
26:41
timing was right for you guys in terms of an acquisition.
26:43
But what wider opportunities excite you around where the
26:47
industry is, is heading And I guess with your Fexco hat on as
26:50
well, like what are those opportunities that you guys are
26:52
honing in on over the next sort of 12 and 18 months?
26:55
Yeah, I think within FEXCO, we, we, we know and we acknowledge
26:58
that what got us here today is not enough to get us to where we
27:01
want to be tomorrow. So M&A plays a really important
27:05
part and we're excited to to partner with a number of
27:08
different organizations that are providing a different solution,
27:11
something that's that's hot coming next, something that is,
27:15
you know our backtracks that didn't make great English.
27:21
We're excited to partner with organizations that are building
27:23
solutions for tomorrow, right. So if you think about some of
27:27
the challenges that the industry faces today, being able to to
27:31
capitalize on a great idea, being able to put some money
27:35
behind it, some structure behind it, effects Co brand behind it,
27:39
a distribution channel behind it, relationships, partnerships,
27:43
all of that to help accelerate their growth.
27:45
Because we have invested it means that in the fruits of that
27:48
too. But also, you know, for us, we,
27:51
we built an RDI hub for research and development and innovation
27:56
hub in Kerry back in 2019, providing a, a great place for
28:02
Irish entrepreneurs to be able to come in, have that structured
28:05
environment, but more importantly, have an environment
28:08
that's going to help them grow, give them an opportunity to
28:11
perhaps maybe learn skills, market their business in a
28:14
different way, to collaborate, to meet, to network and to use
28:18
skills. We, we bring a whole load of
28:20
external consultants in training opportunities to really get
28:24
these entrepreneurs, people that have had a super idea, a really
28:28
great idea that will completely change the world.
28:30
But they, they don't know how to market it.
28:32
They don't know what go to market is, they don't know how
28:35
to, you know, commercialize it. They don't know how to perhaps
28:38
maybe take it to that next level.
28:40
So that's a key focus and will continue to be a key focus for
28:43
it's probably one of the most exciting parts of our business.
28:46
So to answer your question about where we're looking, where
28:49
aren't we looking? That's probably the question.
28:52
Trying to find that next big thing.
28:54
You know, as mentioned back in the in the 80s when Brian
28:57
McCarthy had this idea around dynamic currency conversion, how
29:01
do we, how do we improve the experience of those people that
29:04
travel to Ireland and want to spend money?
29:07
That was a fundamental shift. I love the way you say Ireland I
29:09
can. Tell you I'm sorry for a long
29:11
time. Haven't you?
29:12
I'm 20 years although. People often say to me the
29:14
accent sounds a little bit Australian, but it's just a
29:17
little bit skewed up. So so I definitely haven't lost
29:20
those Kentish Dulcit, Kentish tones, but there's some
29:23
Irishisms that come in there every now now and then.
29:26
But yeah, so it's it's it's it's it's exciting.
29:29
It's an exciting place to be. We did, you know, in my career,
29:32
I would have been involved in a lot of MNA activity in, you
29:37
know, in previous roles in previous organizations.
29:40
But when you do that for a large US corporation, it's very
29:44
different. You've got a whole team of
29:46
people, like literally hundreds of people that sit around that,
29:49
whether it's at the early stage of MNA discussions or whether
29:52
it's at the back end of integration.
29:54
Whereas within Texco, we're blessed, we've got a a really
29:58
hungry entrepreneurial team that once we get our teeth into it,
30:02
we just want to help it grow. And I think that's the mindset
30:06
that the McCarthy's really have driven across the entire
30:08
organization. It's about, it's about the art
30:11
of the possible. And I know that's a little bit
30:13
of a cliche, but it, it really is about what's coming next.
30:17
Good, so we know. Diversity and inclusion also a
30:20
big passion of yours, Sarah, how would you assess kind of where
30:24
the payments and fintech industry is today when it comes
30:27
to diversity and inclusion? So it's a lot a.
30:29
Lot better state than what it was when I first joined 30 years
30:33
ago, where I was always the only female in the room.
30:38
And back then I didn't see it as as a challenge or as a problem,
30:42
right? It was just how it was.
30:43
There were very few females in those types of roles, very few
30:46
females in sales roles actually, let alone in payments.
30:50
So to be a woman in payments and in sales kind of was, was quite
30:54
unique. And then to become a leader, I
30:56
think someone once called me a bit of a, a Unicorn, which was
30:58
kind of mildly ironic. But the, the, the industry has,
31:02
has come on leaps and bounds just across the, the general
31:06
financial services industry, but across payments as well.
31:09
But there's still a lot more to do.
31:11
I think where you look at the shift probably in the last maybe
31:16
10 years where communities became more prevalent for me,
31:22
when I used to, to, to go to the likes of maybe Money 2020 or ICE
31:27
or various different events, there would naturally be a
31:30
gathering of females because it was just a sea of, and it was
31:35
always white dudes, pinstripe suits.
31:37
And then there would be this collection of females.
31:39
And we naturally helped each other.
31:41
We, we, we, we, we kind of let them know what was happening on
31:45
the job front. If someone was facing a
31:47
challenge, we'd help them. If somebody had a particular
31:50
opportunity to, to learn and grow, we would, we would make
31:53
introductions. We would use and leverage our
31:55
network and that was something that happened naturally.
31:59
And then around 10/12/15 years ago, those communities, some
32:04
extremely brave souls like Chrissy Duncan for example,
32:08
would have created those forms and communities and put a badge
32:11
on it. And what that badge did was it
32:14
allowed people to take the sidebar conversations and make
32:18
it formal, be able to create a broader community.
32:21
Whereas, you know, historically it was just me and the network.
32:25
And I've grown up with some amazing females in the industry
32:28
that I'm still, I'm proud to call them my friends.
32:30
And we've helped each other through different scenarios.
32:33
We've given people opportunities with new roles.
32:36
We've, you know, kind of, you know, sussed out and it worked,
32:39
You know, is this person a good person to work for?
32:41
Is it not? So we've been able to use and
32:42
leverage that, but formalizing it to help the next generation
32:47
connect, to help inspire the next generation, but also to
32:51
make sure that they are better equipped and better prepared
32:54
than what we were ever. And I, you know, if I think back
32:57
through my own career, do I, you know, do I feel there were,
33:01
there are things that I, I witnessed and observed that that
33:06
weren't right? Yeah, I did.
33:10
Did I have the confidence to call it out back then?
33:13
I did, which didn't make me very popular, but what I've taken a
33:18
particularly different stance. I, I absolutely would in, in
33:21
many cases. And I think when you look at,
33:24
when you look at where the industry has come leaps and
33:27
bounds, there's still a lot of work to do, but there's also the
33:31
shift in the industry. So you know, what's changing
33:34
the, you know, the different, the different political
33:36
landscape that we experience on a, on a global scale, It's
33:39
changing and shifting. A lot of organizations are
33:43
downscaling their DE and I agenda.
33:45
And let's just be really clear, right?
33:46
Justin D and I diversity is so much more than just male and
33:50
female. It's diversity of background,
33:52
education, thoughts, cultural identity, age demographic
33:58
diversity is all of those things rolled into one.
34:01
But sometimes it just gets badged as a male and female
34:04
thing. And interestingly, I, you know,
34:07
a young, a white male who worked in my team not so long ago, he
34:12
said, you know, Sarah, what I feel worried, right?
34:15
So I'm a white guy, a white male in the payments industry, you
34:20
know, am I at a disadvantage? And the reality is that nobody
34:25
should be at a disadvantage. It should all be about, you
34:28
know, I'd, I'd like to get to a stage.
34:30
I'd like to get to the stage where we we stopped talking
34:32
about diversity because everybody's voice is valued,
34:36
everybody is welcome in the room and everybody is included.
34:40
I think that's my mission. But until then, I'll continue to
34:43
be part of those forums, those groups, those communities.
34:46
And I'm proud to be. And there's definitely more of.
34:49
Those communities that are popping up and, you know, maybe
34:54
it's an issue in itself that we have to have these communities
34:56
to try and grow that voice. But you've been massively
34:58
involved, of course, in women, in payments in particular.
35:02
And there's specific examples of initiatives just because that's
35:05
when you've been very involved with where you've really seen
35:08
that, seen that sort of help the community.
35:11
Yeah, I think. That those, those types of those
35:14
types of communities have been critical for the industry over
35:17
the last 10 years or so. They really have because they've
35:20
given a a greater and a much stronger platform for the next
35:24
generation to come through. It also gives us an opportunity
35:28
maybe to, to share experiences. So, you know, obviously as, as
35:33
guys, you know, your your partners and if you've got
35:36
daughters, it's it's an important message as females,
35:40
right? We want to be, we want to be the
35:43
best leader, we want to be the best partner, we want to be the
35:45
best colleague, we want to be the most successful.
35:48
And the reality is we want to be the best parents, right?
35:51
But the reality is, is it's very difficult to have all of that on
35:55
to be all of that at the very same time.
35:57
And I think generally as a female, I would have put myself
36:02
under immense pressure to be amazing at all of these things.
36:06
Whereas actually, do you know what you got to prioritize?
36:10
And I think what these communities do, they give the
36:14
the members the opportunity to say, you, you can be the best
36:19
you can be. And it's enough, right?
36:21
You can stretch and you can grow.
36:24
And here's some examples of how other people that perhaps maybe,
36:28
you know, back to that role model piece, right?
36:30
So who in the industry do I look at and go, Oh my God, she's
36:33
totally got her shit together, right?
36:35
And yet behind the scenes she's just as vulnerable as I am,
36:40
right. So to hear that people in senior
36:42
positions are human, are authentic and they share their
36:46
stories, I think that's quite inspirational.
36:49
You talk about, you know, the, the, the different types of
36:52
initiatives. So a lot of organisations, large
36:55
organisations have a women in Group, right?
36:59
And you know, I've been very privileged to, to have been part
37:03
of setting up a number of those over the, over the years with,
37:06
with clients, with partners. They talk about the great work
37:09
that we did within our own organisations and could we help
37:11
set them up right? It takes great guts and a lot of
37:14
time and effort for people to set those types of communities
37:17
up within their own organization because it's over and above
37:20
their day job, right? And that's one thing.
37:24
And to get the support from leadership here at FEXCO last
37:27
week, we had our annual Women in payments event and we were
37:30
blessed to have so many different partners from across
37:33
the global partnership base that we have and clients as well come
37:37
in to inspire our females, right?
37:40
And we talked about, we were able to share stats, you know,
37:42
we had with Infexco, we had 86 promotions so far this year and
37:47
56 of those have been female. 68% of our lead program, which
37:52
is our leadership initiative, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a
37:55
formalized degree with the University of Cork.
37:58
You know, 68% of of that cohort this year were female.
38:03
So the communities, the forums that you have within
38:06
organizations are really important.
38:09
But unless leadership at an executive level get behind it,
38:12
it's the impact. It's not just a, it's not just
38:15
an event and, and perhaps maybe a couple of webinars to try and
38:18
inspire and motivate people. It's about real tangible impact
38:23
and I think the initiatives are great, but there has to be
38:26
follow through. At the end of every year, the
38:28
organizations need to say what has this community, what has
38:32
this initiative delivered? Some of the other areas as well,
38:37
You know, new technology. What we're finding is that, you
38:40
know, new technology around payments are driving a far more
38:44
inclusive environment. So being able to maybe target a
38:48
demographic, the underbanked, the underrepresented, being able
38:53
to use and leverage technology to address some of the, you
38:56
know, the inequalities across the globe.
38:58
Now, we're not going to be able to fix everything on day one,
39:01
but technology has allowed us to serve a different population.
39:05
Technology is allowing us to look at things in a different
39:08
way, but also to try and create that more inclusive environment
39:12
and to answer a tough question then.
39:13
Does that, you know, I think again, we've we've worked
39:16
together for a long time at various organizations and we've
39:18
already always you know with our HR team and team management team
39:21
been looking at diversity, inclusion and like you say, not
39:25
just from a gender point of view, but does it translate well
39:29
enough to the boardroom in payments at the moment?
39:31
Have we seen a big enough shift? Obviously you've been in
39:33
payments like you say for years. Is there still a gap that exists
39:38
at that boardroom level? There is.
39:41
There is and the challenge, the challenge isn't actually at the
39:46
boardroom level, to be honest. The challenge is further down
39:49
the ladder because when, if you, if you look at large
39:53
organizations of, of well organizations of any size,
39:58
you'll find that there is probably a balance 5050 in some
40:01
cases a higher population of female employees at the lower
40:05
levels within the organization. But as you move further up,
40:09
you'll find that that pool gets a lot shallower.
40:12
And the reason being is, you know, we, we talk about, you
40:15
know, the, the motherhood tax, right, for females to take time
40:20
out. It's a real challenge.
40:21
It is, it is a real challenge. I have, I have two daughters.
40:24
I think my first daughter was three months old when I went
40:27
back to work full time. Not because I didn't want to be
40:30
there. My goodness, it broke my heart.
40:31
But the reality is, is you know, my, my circumstances at the time
40:34
meant that I, I had no choice because I, I didn't want, I was,
40:38
I, I felt that I was climbing a particular adder and I didn't
40:41
want to be disadvantaged. Statistics say that parental
40:44
leave is coming in for, for guys and so many of them now won't
40:49
take time out. And it was interesting.
40:51
I was on a panel session a couple of years ago and the guy
40:54
on the panel, he talked about parental leave and the fact that
40:58
he hadn't taken it. He was almost proud that he
41:00
hadn't taken it because he was so committed to his role and so
41:03
committed to his career. And I asked the question, why
41:06
haven't you taken it? He said, well, he said I don't
41:08
want to be out for two months, three months.
41:11
I don't want to be out in that period of time.
41:12
And I said, why is that? He said because it will impact
41:14
my career and my opportunities. Doesn't know my friend group
41:17
because a. Couple of them got six months
41:18
off each and they definitely took advantage of that and
41:21
seized the moment. We should be driving that as
41:23
leaders. Someone in my team saying hey,
41:26
my wifes pregnant, she's due to have a child.
41:29
I would be absolutely making sure that that individual is off
41:32
work because his job should be spending time with his family,
41:34
right? Your job is not just your job
41:36
that you're getting paid to do, right?
41:37
You have a job at home to provide for your family, but be
41:40
there for them as well. That's not always down to money.
41:42
I think just I think, I think. Generally, you know, a lot of
41:45
people do, but the reality is, is to hear a guy say openly that
41:50
he feels that taking six months out on parental leave is going
41:55
to negatively impact his career, that's a statement because that
42:00
is exactly what every female that has had a child has
42:03
experienced. And it is, it's the motherhood
42:06
tax. And you know, it's almost like
42:08
a, is there a, is there a fatherhood bonus?
42:12
Right. And the reason I, the reason I
42:13
highlight that is is that it is proven that guys that have
42:18
families that, you know, have got married and have families,
42:22
they are seen as more stable in terms of promotion prospects.
42:26
So you know, the, the industry, no, that's not, it's not
42:29
generally across the board, right?
42:30
But you do hear and you do see, unfortunately the symptoms are
42:35
there in terms of that tax and that bonus and it's not
42:39
proportionate. So to go back to your, you know,
42:40
your question around impacting at the board level what we as
42:44
leaders need to do and what we as communities, both within the
42:47
organisations and the, you know, the organisations like women in
42:50
payments, women in sales, women in finance, banking, Fintech,
42:53
all of these organisations. What we desperately try to do is
42:57
bring people in at the very early stage in their career
43:00
where they're hungry, though they're ambitious, and provide
43:04
opportunities to connect, provide opportunities to learn
43:07
and grow, provide opportunities to broaden their horizons and
43:11
then stay with them on that journey.
43:13
So that when I look for senior leaders, I do it with the intent
43:19
to get the right person for the role, right?
43:21
I don't go out to say right, so my quota is this and I'm down on
43:25
that. That's the wrong model.
43:27
I think it was a setting targets a number of years ago was the
43:31
right thing to do at the time because it made people more
43:34
intentional and that was what was lacking, setting quotas.
43:38
It's always has to be for me and for every organization that I've
43:42
worked in, it has to be about getting the right person for the
43:45
job. We need to have the right people
43:47
in the right roles doing the right things for the right
43:49
reason. And if a quota is driving those
43:52
recruitment decisions, positive or what they call it, positive
43:56
or negative reinforcement, right?
43:58
You know, positive discrimination is a real thing.
44:01
So if you're hiring somebody purely because she's a female,
44:06
that's not right either. It's getting that right balance,
44:09
but what organisations need to do is they need to have a deeper
44:13
pool to fish from for that leadership group and
44:16
unfortunately between the the rungs on the ladder to the the
44:20
top of the ladder, unfortunately that pool gets thinner and
44:24
thinner. So as leaders and as
44:26
organisations, we've got to make sure that we do everything
44:29
possible to keep people in the workforce.
44:31
And that is flexible working arrangements, right?
44:34
Having a boss that's going to be able to support you when little
44:37
Johnny's got chicken pox. These are so important to have
44:40
a, a leader that's not going to judge you because you need to
44:43
take time out because somebody is sick at home.
44:45
And that's not just in terms of child responsibility.
44:49
It's proven that females are the main carers for elderly parents,
44:53
right? So it's being able to create an
44:56
environment in every organization where you are
44:59
growing and supporting, but you're providing the right
45:02
environment. Going back to work five days a
45:05
week in the office where for the last five years the wheels on
45:10
the bus didn't come off. People were able to do a really
45:12
good job in in the main. So providing and affording that
45:15
level of of, of flexibility to people, whether they are mums or
45:20
dads should make no difference. It should be equal.
45:22
I agree. So, Sarah.
45:24
Our favorite part of the show? The shelf of shame.
45:26
What frustrates you around payments?
45:28
Please let us know what's yours. Yeah.
45:30
So I. Thought long and hard about
45:31
this. I felt the pressure guys because
45:33
I really want to make sure that my item is up there on your
45:37
shelf. For me, it's overhype, right?
45:42
It is the over hype around what is trending at this moment in
45:46
time. We saw it with Bitcoin many,
45:48
many moons ago. Now I know Bitcoin has has gone
45:51
full circle, right? And it's, it's, you know, the,
45:53
the, the currencies and the crypto and the digital assets
45:55
now is really, really prominent. But back in 2012, it was over
45:59
hyped. Organizations, providers
46:02
invested a whole heap of money. Merchants were demanding it, but
46:05
actually when it was delivered, adoption was really, really
46:08
poor. I think as an industry we do a
46:11
really, really good job of over hyping AI.
46:14
My goodness. I think I saw a great meme the
46:16
other day. It was somebody saying to a
46:19
group of CEOs, what do you want? And it's we want AI.
46:24
When do you want it? We want it now.
46:27
What do you want it to do? We don't know, right?
46:30
And it's the hype attached to that.
46:33
So currently it's AI, right? Real time payments, open
46:38
banking, digital assets. It's about making sure that each
46:44
provider has a level head when they go out to market.
46:47
Now we need to make sure that we get the right amount of hype
46:51
behind it. But the amount of initiatives,
46:53
the amount of hype that surrounds so many general
46:57
industry solutions and how one provider says that they can
47:01
solve for everybody, that over hype around providers, products,
47:06
industry trends that really should do we not just think it's
47:10
all of the. Conferences getting together and
47:12
working out what their agenda for that year is going to be to
47:14
sell tickets for the conferences.
47:16
Could be it could. Be it could be and and and look,
47:18
they they play a key role, but like you take money 2020 this
47:22
year, right every other session was around AI and that's great,
47:28
but actually what does it solve? How does it solve How are we
47:32
going to interpret it? How are we going to use it?
47:34
How are we going to make sure going back to your point around
47:37
diversity inclusion, how do we make sure that AI is a force of
47:40
good and it's not a challenge, right.
47:44
So I know, look, sure, we're bringing in, we've bought in
47:49
huge investments around AI, we're adopting it, we're using
47:53
it, we're leveraging it and we're, you know, kind of trying
47:54
to work out how, where, where we go next as an organization and
47:57
working with our partners as well.
47:59
But the reality is, is generally overhype.
48:02
I feel for me, over the last 30 years, solutions and trends that
48:08
have been overhyped have actually stunted the industry
48:11
because merchants and providers have invested a whole heap of
48:15
cash, a whole heap of resource and infrastructure to building
48:19
out what they perceive to be the next thing, whereas adoption has
48:24
been slow. So unless you're taking what the
48:27
consumers of solutions need, So what businesses actually need,
48:32
what individual personal consumers need, taking that and
48:35
make it relevant, the overhype will continue to status.
48:38
I think we can put. Overhype, Yeah.
48:40
Can we put that on there? Yeah.
48:41
I agree and I think the. Reason why we can blame
48:44
salespeople and marketing people for this right is that we're
48:46
trying to scare them. And products.
48:47
Don't forget product. We.
48:50
Ask them. And we're a lot of businesses
48:51
when it comes to AI because people are not aware of of what
48:55
the future is obviously going to have for them without using AI.
48:59
So I absolutely agree with that. Thank you very much for.
49:01
Joining us today, Sarah, That was really, really great.
49:03
Where can people find you if they want to get in touch with
49:05
yourself or Fexco? I'm always hanging around.
49:08
LinkedIn So please don't be a stranger.
49:11
That would be the message. And to find out more about
49:13
Fexco, just Google us, right? We've got a great, we've
49:17
rebadged and rebranded. Our website tells you a little
49:20
bit more about what we do as a broader organization.
49:24
But what I would say is if you are in the payment space and if
49:27
you are a merchant or you are an acquirer, a payment facilitator
49:30
or a processor of payments, reach out.
49:32
We've got a whole wealth of different solutions that we know
49:35
can make a difference to your merchants.
49:37
Brilliant. Amazing.
49:37
Thanks very much.