Latest / Nutrition Connection by Dr. Kristen Hicks-Roof / 68: Erik Bustillo MS, RD, FISSN, CSC, CF-L2, CPT - PERFORMANCE / TACTICAL

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68: Erik Bustillo MS, RD, FISSN, CSC, CF-L2, CPT - PERFORMANCE / TACTICAL · Nutrition Connection by Dr. Kristen Hicks-Roof

• Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Welcome back to the Nutrition Connection Podcast, the show where science meets storytelling. I'm your host, Dr. Kristen Hicksroof, dietitian, researcher, and lifelong advocate of the role of nutrition, health, and wellness. Each episode, I sit down with dietitians and nutrition experts all across the food and healthcare landscape, leaders whose work touches nearly every aspect of our lives. The views, thoughts, and comments on this podcast do not reflect those of my employer nor the employers of my guest. So let's go ahead and get connected. I'm super excited to bring on today's guest. We this is actually a round two of recording because the first Erik Bustillo: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: one's scrapped. So you guys get a even better performance. Okay. We have Eric Bustillo. Erik Bustillo: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: He's a performance dietitian. Welcome to the show, Eric. Erik Bustillo: Thank you, thank you so much for having me. It's nice to be back on for the second time, but it's gonna be the first time. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: It's gonna the first time for those of you who are listening, but for Eric and I, we've actually already gone through it. So this is like easy like butter. but no, I Erik Bustillo: Yeah. yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: love, you know, Eric and I have kind of crossed paths over the years. He's had an awesome big social channel on science communications, but really all your work in the performance and nutrition space is why I wanted you on the show because I know there's so many people who are interested or they've been in the performance space and there's Such expansion to performance, whether that is recreational athletes, college, university, could be professional sports, tactical athletes, like with military that you've done. So we're gonna dive all into it, but let's get started all the way from the beginning. What inspired you and made you want to go to the nutrition profession? Erik Bustillo: I I don't know that there's one like this very specific answer. but I I feel like a a seed was planted when I was a child. So my my grandmother had type 2 diabetes. and there was something to I don't know, something about watching her have to watch what she was eating, but also she didn't she didn't really make huge lifestyle changes. so and I think that We could have had her for longer had she made these changes to to her lifestyle. but you know, she was an older Cuban lady of Lebanese descent. So when you talk about really good food, like Lebanese food is delicious, Cuban food is delicious, and then here in Miami, like, man. so and of course with the with older generations, especially from from a a Hispanic background, exercise. is not really a thing. right. So it's not like she was gonna start getting into exercise or anything else. And I was just a child, right? Like, but something about that experience, watching her have to finger prick, measure the the blood glucose levels. Okay, now she I'll go fetch the insulin from the refrigerator for her, watch her do the thing, inject it into her stomach. and I don't know, I think that that planted a seed. You take that with me, I really like to help people. I've I've always been passionate about helping, whether it's through it education or it's helping them through a tough time in in life if they want some some advice or you know whatever it might be. I've always enjoyed being there for people, which I think that is important for someone who wants to make a change, whether it's as a coach or as an educator, as a researcher, whatever, whatever it might be. So then you fast forward a little bit. And one day when I was in college, so I thought I wanted to be like a sports agent. I love sports. I've always liked sports as an athlete and watching it. I've always enjoyed playing more though. and I I started learning more about that career, the sports management side of things. And I I I don't remember exactly what it was, but something turned me off about it. But then my brother was like, hey, why don't you become a registered dietitian? And I was like, man, what's a registered dietitian? I had no idea what that was. and then I learned about it and I was like, hey, I can make a positive impact on people's health and performance from a physical standpoint through through their diet. Like, this is awesome. And then from there, just I took my my pre-rec courses at Miami Dade College, went on to FIU or Florida International University here in Miami, got into the internship, passed my boards, and I've been working in the field for I mean, I've been in the field for over fifteen years. officially though, as a dietitian, we're we're coming up on 14 years. and yeah, it's just been an an amazing, amazing career since then. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I have such a similar calling. Like I love helping people. My specific calling is not just on the one-on-one. I love helping the nutrition profession. I mean, obviously I have this podcast, but my goal is like if we can really advance and elevate the nutrition profession, whether it's a dietitian or a PhD nutrition expert, how can we kind of like a rising tide lifts all boats and be, you know, really improving and recognizing that nutrition does play a a role, you know, because I think about the sports. I was an athlete in college. I thought I always wanted to be a college sports dietitian too. And then I was like, wait, there's so many other roles that also help performance too, whether it's psych, it's physical therapy, it's rehab, it's sports medicine, right? And I'm all of a sudden I'm like, so I can I can be a dietitian, but I don't just have to go into sports. I could go into whatever other arena. And then slowly, as I went through my career, I'm like, I want to do that. so that is one good thing. Like, if you got the calling to help people, then like all your passions can collide. You know, for you, that was like performance helping people colliding. So let's talk a little bit about your journey. So you became a dietitian. What Erik Bustillo: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: sort of roles have you had? I mean, I know, you know. Recently you were in the US Navy as a civilian dietitian, but you have Erik Bustillo: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: a number of credentials behind your name. So give us a little bit of loop, like when did you get those? What kind of jobs have you had? Erik Bustillo: For sure, yeah. So my first job out of college, I I knew the the owners, right? One was a cardiologist, the other was just someone who had been involved in the overall fitness or wellness space for for some time. but they knew the kind of practitioner that I was gonna be. They got to see my personality and those sorts of things. So it was working in the cardiologist's office, but essentially being a part of and running the wellness division in that office there. So I got exposure to it was really cool because there was a metabolic cart in the practice. So I would run a metabolic cart, see their VO2 max numbers, and interpret that for the patients. I was looking at blood work, all those sorts of things. And and what was nice about that is that I learned not just about Counseling and supporting people one-on-one. I would also do some group presentations out in the community at that point in time. I mean, I had done that when I was at FIU also. but I got to meet a bunch of different kinds of people, right? So I got to meet people who were on medication for cholesterol. I got to meet people who were going through chemotherapy for their cancer treatments. I got to work with professional football players. just a a whole variety of of individuals. so I did that for quite some time. And then the company kind of started moving in a direction that I I didn't particularly like. They they started going into like the the multi level marketing side of things. And that just didn't didn't really sit well with me. So just differences of opinion and and you know, thankfully, you know, went our separate ways. but I've always been involved in a bunch of other little things, which I think is pretty common for for dietitians. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Yes. Erik Bustillo: and so when I was still at that office, I was also the sport nutritionist for the FIU football team for about a year and a half. And also at around that time frame, if I'm remembering the the time correctly, I don't know it some folks might might know Dr. Lean Norton. He goes as bioling on on social media. so he and I have known each other for quite some years. but at this point in time, he asked if I could just do some consulting stuff for his his company, which it was nowhere near as big as what it is now. but basically just being the the dietitian. Who would sign off on on like notes or whatever. So I would look it over, make sure that recommendations were good, or make my own recommendations for supplements and whatever else, based on like the labs or or any sort of symptoms, whatever they needed. so I did that. I've also written articles for for magazines here and there, or been interviewed for them here and there. In that time frame, I also opened up my my consulting business, like in an actual an S-corp. Some people would do LLC. I went with an S Corp. and I'm trying to kind of go through the timeline here. while all of that was going on, I also I got involved in CrossFit, like doing CrossFit, right? Because I've been an athlete my entire life. so I I I was kinda like, this looks kinda cool. the reason that's important is because fast forward to later on in the year after I I I parted ways with the cardiologist's office, I I met someone who is now a friend of mine, him and the other owner of the gym, who she was actually my my track and field coach in high school. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Right. Erik Bustillo: I know, crazy. They they own they still own the gym, CrossFit Coconut Grove, here in Miami. And they they basically wanted to bring me on as like the in-house dietitian. eventually I also became a certified strength coach. I got like my level two in CrossFit, so I'll coach CrossFit classes too. It's a lot of fun. It's cool to see people push themselves and grow and all of that sort of stuff. now something else that that I left out in that time frame. at this point in time. So I think most people are familiar with WWE, formerly known as WWF back in the day. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Dude, yeah. How I guess maybe I'm dating myself. Yeah, how do you not know that? Erik Bustillo: I know, I know, I know. but it's crazy. It's a it's a I don't know, multi-billion dollar company. so WWE has like their minor leagues, I I guess is how I understood it, called NXT. so their NXT division at one point, they were looking to start off some kind of nutrition thing. and this isn't something that I actually don't talk about this a lot, but it literally just hit me now. I went up to their facility in Orlando, Florida. To see what it was that they wanted and so on and so forth. And it was pretty cool. I sent them a proposal. they never got back to me. and that's for you know, for those listening, these things happen. for whatever reason, right? it's always nice when if you submit a proposal, if you apply for a job, it's always nice to hear back, right? It's always nice to hear back either you didn't get the position. I'm the kind of person that likes to get feedback just in case, if it could be constructive in any way, shape, or form. but I I never heard what it was. My guess is I don't know, maybe too much money that I was asking for. I don't know. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Honestly, that's the hardest part is like when you're out pitching yourselves or you're or you're putting proposals, so many people don't give feedback. So sometimes you are like questioning. I think one of the things that if you're listening and you're in that space where you're like kind of pitching companies or brands or businesses, you can always reach out and ask for feedback. You know, they may not always get back to you, but sometimes it's like, hey, we just went a different direction. Sometimes it is Erik Bustillo: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: too much money. Sometimes the scope of work is too big. those things always change. But yeah, I I don't like that. It's like so I submit for fancy sessions every year. And I learned a couple of years ago, you can actually, if you get denied, you can actually respond back to the people who accept or deny you, and you can say, Hey, can you give me all the feedback? And they'll give you a whole list of feedback why you got denied. Erik Bustillo: Interesting. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: So sometimes you just gotta ask, you know. Erik Bustillo: Yeah, for sure. And the the interesting thing is I I I'm an ask, right? Like like typically if I if I don't get the position or, you know, whatever it is, I'm like, Hey, cool. can you provide feedback? If I'm remembering this correctly, only one time has someone ever replied to me. And it was a position with the University of Miami to be like a research dietitian, like with from like a counseling standpoint. and she replied and she was, you know, super nice and so on and so forth. But that's the only time. I'll actually share another story later on. So anyway, I never heard back from the WWE thing, but While in that time when I was doing that, I I actually ended up getting a position with a corporate wellness company. So this corporate wellness company, they have contracts with different either companies or municipalities. Mine in particular was a municipality. So I was the dietitian, health coach, and strength coach for a municipality down here in South Florida. And that was really cool because I could do one-on-one counseling sessions. I was doing group lectures, which I really enjoy public speaking. and that was also during the pandemic. So the pandemic was obviously a little bit weird, but then after the pandemic, I was still there and I kind of thought to myself, I was like, why am I not doing more with their police and fire? I've always worked with police and fire throughout my career, no matter where. At the cardiologist's office, I did that. in the CrossFit gym in some way, shape, or form. I'm doing I I would do that. Excuse me. anyway, so I approached the police chief and he loved it. Now it it's it's a little bit of a no-brainer for two reasons. And this is one of those from the top-down thing. One, he's a fitness buff himself. So he he loves it, he works out all the time. And two, it wasn't gonna cost them anything. Because I was already like as part of the contract, I'm already an employee with this other company. So, you know, it is what it is. So for it was a passion project. I basically created a CrossFit class for their police department. And then from there, there was a lot of buy-in because then they were like, wait, that's right. Eric is the dietitian at the wellness clinic. So then they would ask me about supplements that they heard on the podcast. Or I just got my blood work done. Like, can you tell me anything about it? So then the rapport was was built there and that was that was awesome. And then I eventually left that place. and that was also one of those things where there was just like, you know, changing changing of of the company. it it it kind of moved in a direction I wasn't I wasn't necessarily liking. but either way, it was it was all good. And then after that, I someone that I know who owns a a fitness coaching and nutrition coaching company, they wanted to start a corporate wellness company. and they came to me to to be kind of like the director of their wellness things. So I was like, cool, you know what? Let's let's try this out. and I gotta tell you, I mean, I referred to it as a failed startup. it was it was challenging because there were, I mean, I reached out to so many people. emails, calls, e texting friends of mine like, hey, you work at this company or you know this person there or whatever. but it is Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: It's a tough space to be in. I mean, corporate wellness, because you have to find the right people who are interested in wellness. Number one, is it already part of their package? You know, I worked in corporate wellness for a number of years and I knew other people who are starting who are trying to get into the business. They're like, How do you get into corporate wellness? And I was kind of a like, you gotta know the right people. You know what I mean? Like, I wasn't, Erik Bustillo: For sure. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: I was an independent contractor for corporate wellness, but yeah, it's really tough. And some of those setbacks. I know you and I have talked about it before, like some of those setbacks, although disappointing, they also open doors for future opportunities too, you know. So there's pluses and minuses. Erik Bustillo: sure. 100%, without a doubt. now in that time frame when I was at the corporate wellness company before, I also got involved with another company who does, it's a human performance company. they're called O2X. and that was back in around 2021 or so. To date I've done over 180 workshops specifically with O2X. and that's cool because with O2X I've done I've I've been involved with police, fire, Navy, Army, I mean, you name it, I've I've helped out different government groups, whether it's like US Marshals or you know, something along those lines. and that's been an amazing opportunity to to make an impact, right? It's it's serving those who serve kind of thing. and then so there was and I've I'm to this day I'm still involved with with O2X as a as a contractor. the the failed startup thing, it was a learning experience for sure. and you know, cool. Everything is every experience is something that we can learn from. And then shortly after that, I I mean And every now and then like I'll apply to different things just because I'm like, you know, just go through the motions. If you make it to the interview stage, cool, it'll be fun to get some practice interviewing, whether I want the position or not. and I I I had interviewed for a few positions. And you know, going back to talking about communication from companies and whatnot, I applied for a position that was up in Washington, DC. It was essentially a position to be like a a wellness program coordinator. and right up my alley because of my background as a dietitian. Eventually I got my master's in applied exercise science and sports nutrition. And then other credentials are as a strength coach, a certified personal trainer. I'm certified as a sport nutritionist through the International Society of Sports Nutrition. I'm also I was the co-vice president of the ISSN for a few years and I'm also a fellow of the ISSN. and my level two in CrossFit, which I mentioned earlier. And currently I'm going through my my PhD program as well. which I'm in the I'm finishing up that third year, getting ready for my comps and all that sort of thing. yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: yeah. Don't bring back those days. Good luck. Erik Bustillo: Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. so in in applying for that role I was up in DC It was an interesting experience because I mean it was a good paying job. Washington, DC is expensive, but it was a good paying job. and it was with a population that I would have been honored to to work with and and serve. the the experience was interesting, right? So a lot of times companies will fly you up for an interview. So they didn't do that. So I bought my my plane ticket to fly out to DC and then come back to Miami. I thought the interview went well. It was one of those things where when I was in the interview, I got more excited for the position. and then what ends up happening is about somewhere in the two to four weeks later timeline, I sent an email because I hadn't heard anything back. And they were like, someone from you know HR is gonna get back to you when when they've a decision is made. And I was like, okay, cool. So I'm gonna wait to hear. That must have been around That wasn't that was timeline of August. Fast forward to April, I still have heard nothing back. So I was like, hey, you know what? Like I think I know what happened here. But just because, so I reached out and then I got connected to someone else and then someone else, and they were like, we ended up going with with somebody else. And I was like, you can literally set up an automated system to send an email to the people that you do not select. It's not that hard to communicate, right? Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: It is automated in most of the HR platforms. It is automated. It's just they don't do it. Yeah, that drives me crazy. So how did you get into I want you to talk a little bit about your civilian R D job with the US Navy? Erik Bustillo: Yeah, so fast forward to it was in the the the later part of last year. I saw a role had popped up and this is gonna be full transparency. I see the role and I'm like, okay, this is cool. as I learned more about it from the interview process to some of the people that that were in charge of kind of rolling out the program that the Navy is is doing. You know, they were kind of hyping it up, right? So you can see the the pay, right? For government or federal positions. the the job is gonna be posted, the I'm sorry, the salary is gonna be posted on the job posting. And the pay was not like I did not accept this position for its pay. it was a position that I I mean I wasn't gonna be, you know. living under a bridge, like I was gonna be able to pay my rent and then and afford groceries kind of thing. I was not gonna be like saving a ton of money or anything like that. But to me, my passion for supporting the country and and serving those who serve, I have a big, big passion for that. like I really love that. And and there were there were also some some, you know, promises made to me that I think it's important for people to hear that kind of stuff where I was told that I was gonna get an increase in my pay. a few months in. There wasn't gonna be this huge bump in my salary, but it was gonna be an increase only to find out when I ask about that. Then it turns out that you know smoke was being you know blown up my butt for a lack of a better way of saying it. and I'm a I'm a person of integrity, ethics, and morals. I'm a man of my I expect people, especially people in in quote unquote high positions, to perhaps do the same. so anyway, I went through the interview and got on on phone calls like on whether I should take the position or not. And it was kind of cool because the the army has a program called H2F, holistic health and fitness. the Air Force has the PoTIF program, the preservation of the force and family. The Navy doesn't have any specific program like that. They've had a bunch of different things here and there. The SEALs have their own thing. The Navy SEALs are that's a separate topic. They have their own money, they have all that. so then the Navy was basically looking to create its H2F program. They decided to call it HPO, the Human Performance Optimization Program. so it was all these cool things, right? It was creating a new program. It was Communicating to the sailors and to active duty leadership and all of that. And I was going to be the first performance dietitian in this human performance optimization role, right? Because there are dietitians in the Navy, especially there's like active duty dietitians and so on and so forth. So for me, it was like, okay, cool, build a program. It's a population that I love working with. it'll be kinda cool to say that I'm the I'm the first dietitian in this rule, like, you know, cool little ego booster. so and then again the pay, it was not not good, but livable, right? so I said, all right, you know what, I'm gonna do this. And mind you, all of the experience that I've had in in years past working with tactical athletes, all of that came in handy. And also just like my ability to build rapport with these individuals. I I can connect well with them, we can joke around, you know, we have a good time, and education is is being had here, right? It's it's happening. So that was kind of that that role in That would entail just, you know, doing group lectures and presentations, coming up with either from PowerPoints to strategies on how like me and the team were going to present with this group and presenting to their their leadership and all of that. so it was it was a pretty cool role. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: That's awesome. Yeah, I always love that because my dad was Air Force and my husband, his family was army. And so it's like I love that tactical population, especially as you've mentioned, like helping those who served. I think it's so powerful. whether you serve military or you serve in, you know, fire, police, however you might serve. So I do think that there is like a specialty honor of that. And you know, one of the challenges in nutrition, which you can attest to too, is one. Sometimes they hire roles where they don't really fully understand what the dietitian does or will do. You know, they have an idea. And then two, they also don't always understand the pay of what should be expected. I have seen some dietitian roles for like 35,000. I'm like, can you do like a market analysis? Like, there is no way you can have someone who went to school for five plus years at that sort of salary. So I think, you know, Erik Bustillo: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: we could talk a lot about that and and you know, the role sounds super cool, not right, you know, but so let's talk about let's pivot a little bit. Let's talk about scientific data and evidence. Like as you're going out and helping these athletes or doing presentations or podcasts or whatever, how does evidence and data fuel what you do in your day to day? Erik Bustillo: Yeah, it's at the root or the foundation of all of my my teachings, right? I I think that our responsibility as practitioners is to use the body of evidence that is available to us and then use that as the foundation. now at the same time I think that it's important for us to also acknowledge that an N of one is still an N, right? So Just because it worked on one person doesn't mean it's going to work on everybody. and just because it works on everybody, quote unquote, it doesn't mean that it's gonna be the best thing for this one person sitting in front of us. So for me, that's where the individuality component plays an important role, right? I think that listening to what the person is saying. listening to any sort of symptoms, obviously complaints and that sort of thing, it's gonna be important. If we have any data on them that that is useful, then wonderful. So for example, any sort of blood work, right? And that was a big thing of mine. I made a huge push in my time with the Navy for people to get their blood work done. And I would send them what I want to see. They would have their docs order whatever they they felt comfortable ordering and I would review it with them and give them a game plan moving forward. pretty innovative for for the Navy there because it's not very common, right? so and just a total side note, based on what you had said about like some dietitian positions at 35,000. The interesting thing about the role that I was in is that there there was a dietitian at like the the DC office. so to me it was kind of like, man. Like we gotta advocate for our profession more. Like you can, you know, if you have a voice or a position to make some kind of a change, you gotta say, hey, this role has to make more money, especially if you want a high caliber person. But anyway, total side note. so from blood work to even wearable data, right? So the wearables that people use, I think that there's a time and place for all of that. I don't think that it's something for people to obsess about. But if we if we understand that as the practitioner, if we know what to do with that information, then great. Because people will be like, yeah, you should get your blood work done. Okay, well, what are you gonna do with the results? Do you know how to interpret that? Do you know actionable items that you can implement? like using a wearable. Okay, so you get someone's HRV data, what are you comparing it to? Like are you saying are you having them compare it with their friend in their CrossFit gym? Or is it just the HR V data specific to them, which is ideal, right? So I I think there's there we're getting into a place or we're we're already there where using data and and science has become way easier because of these things on our wrists or the rings that people use, you know, whatever it might be. And our phones, it connects to our phones, so it's like this constant thing. That being said I do think that there's such a thing as data overload. Right. So there's the people who think that they have to get blood work done to make a change, people who think that they need to use the wearable, they have to track their work out, or if not, it doesn't count, or whatever. There's a huge psychological thing there. so let's use the body of evidence that we have, being an evidence-based profession as dietitians and in strength and conditioning. And coaching also, and then see how the individual is responding. Okay, that's where the art of coaching then kind of comes in and scientific communication and all of that sort of stuff. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Glad you talked about the different layers because you're right. I think scientific evidence only goes so far when you think about the individualization. And I think what you're seeing with wearables, and these are just like early generations of wearables, right? Like I think in the next 10 plus years, you're gonna get wearables that are way more comprehensive and can give you a lot of information. Information can only go so far. You need to work hand in hand with a dietitian or coach or a wellness or whoever you're gonna be working with to be able to explain it. Like I can go out and get a DEXA, but if no one even explains it, I'm like, what am I looking at? Versus, okay, here's what a DEXA shows. Here's how you have a game plan to increase bone density or to increase lean muscle mass or whatever it might be. Right. So I think we can use some of those biometrics to help to supplement our counseling skills and to have objective measures for us to go towards. I think that's one thing that dieticians don't capitalize on all the time. They're like, I'm helping people. You are helping people, right? How do you have more objective measures of how you're helping them? Can that be labs? Can that be tracked dietary intake of, you know, they eat one fruit or vegetable and now all of a sudden they eat three fruits and vegetables? Like that is a measurable difference. but Sometimes I think we like to think like, yeah, we're helping people like they're less stressed or they have more they c they're cooking more at home. It's like, yeah, that's great, but what's Erik Bustillo: Mm-hmm. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: an objective measure that you can add as well as, right? They they work hand in hand. So Eric, you've Erik Bustillo: For sure. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: had you wore a lot of different hats, right? And you still kind of wear a lot of different hats as you talked about. So like what's been something you're most proud of or your favorite so far? Erik Bustillo: a lot of things really. I'm I'm the work that I I've done with tactical athletes for me is is awesome. Like I I love that so so much. So the work that I got done with the Navy was awesome. now I'm not there anymore, but when some of the people in in in leadership in the act in the military side of leadership, when they found out that I wasn't I wasn't gonna be there anymore, they were they were very upset. And it was it kind of shows that's like, cool, like we built something something cool here together, right? what I did with the with that police department in the that local municipality here, to me that's that's one of like the achievements that I'm super duper proud of. just get making those connections with those people. And even to this day I'm still friends with with some of them. We still chat here and there. You know, whatever you leave a place is kind of like out of sight, out of mind. So you might not talk all the time but there are some friendships that that do last so that's been great and also you know a lot of the work that that we've done with with O2X right so the the company that raised me on as a contractor we've made some really positive impact with different organizations and to see people truly thriving I think is is something that is it's very rewarding as as a practitioner when you see that it's like, man, you know, it's awesome that this person is doing that. For me, it's nice to be a part of that. but obviously these people have to put in the work to do it. so being a part of that. And then also I will say that being a part of the the ISSN, so the International Society of Sports Nutrition for me that's it's an awesome organization. the yearly conference is is always a good one. It's nice to catch up with friends there, see some of the things that are going on as far as up-and-coming science and just yeah, the organization itself from the review papers that we put out or just the original data that gets put into the journal. everything there is is just awesome. When when I was the the the co vice president, I had put together the it was the first one and who knows, maybe I'll I'll bring it back, the women's health and performance seminar. Well at the time it was a webinar, right? So was in twenty twenty one. So it was still like, you know, pandemic and whatever. So So that was, I was definitely very proud of that and other things that we do with with ISSN. And one other thing that I'll mention is a friend of mine, Dr. Susan Kleiner. She's a trailblazer in the field of of dietetics and sports nutrition. she's the author of the Performance Nutrition, the book. It's on maybe like it's fifth edition now. so her and I have a podcast together called Your Food Matters. And that's awesome because we bring a lot to either consumers or people in industry or people in our field and some or adjacent fields. And it's like everyone kind of learns from the conversations that we have. and all of that is is work related. I'm also very proud of like, you know. having an awesome family, like my parents, my brother, my niece and good people around me all the time. I think that good attracts good. I know a lot of times we just we talk about our work, but you know, our other our other life is important too. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: For sure. No, I do think so. And I I want to bring it all the way back to like what you said. You kind of had like a common theme is like when you're in wellness programs, you get to build rapport with a lot of these patients. And so when you even leave the program, like you've been working them for a extended period of time. You get to know them, right? You develop like relationships in terms of like I get to know it's your daughter's birthday party this weekend or whatever. because I know. When I used to see corporate wellness clients, I mean, 10 plus years ago, I still am connected with some of them and get to see updates about them. And so I think there is something special about some of those wellness programs where you have that continuity or like with the tactical athletes, like you're not just having, I mean, yes, with some, you're having a one and done, but others, you get to see them over extended periods of time. And that really Erik Bustillo: Sure. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: just d develops like such a strong relationship that that extends beyond. And it's It's a feel-good feeling, I feel like too. Like when you help someone and they become you become instrumental to them changing their life or their behaviors Erik Bustillo: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: or like it's a win-win, in my opinion. So Erik Bustillo: Big side. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: quickly, you know, what tips or suggestions would you have some for someone who's interested, let's say, in the tactical nutrition space? How do they get involved? How do they do that? Erik Bustillo: well, I part of it is the research, right? So being being in the in the know with current happenings as far as research and military populations are concerned. I encourage asking questions, you know, have a one on one conversation with someone. And see if it's even worth getting into in a in a certain in with a certain field, right? So like if someone were to ask me if, hey, should I be the dietitian with the the Navy HPO program, I would recommend that they don't do it. I have my reasons, right? I I don't think that the civilian leadership is is very good. And I wouldn't recommend that for anybody, right? That's kind of my experience. But it's a matter of having people who can be kind of mentors for others to give that that transparent, you know, that honest information. But now what I would say is read as much as you can, learn about the population. try to get involved with different programs if there's anything local, if you can do something with police and fire, and it could just be kind of like treat it as as like just wellness, nutrition, education, you know? There even something like I like to teach a course just like fundamentals of fueling, right? Or nutrition 101, however we want to call it. That stuff goes a long way. Right? So this is this is information that can be used by police officers, by firefighters, by people in the Navy, in the Army, in the Air Force, Coast Guard, you name it, because there's a lot of misinformation out there. And that's one of my biggest things, like throughout my career, and it's kind of funny, like I'll see a lot of things that people are doing on social media now. And like, man, I was doing that like ten years ago. I just kind of got like, I don't know. fed up with social media a little bit if I'm being transparent. but it's cool stuff that, you know, people are posting about research and whatever. But then some interpretations might might be false, right? so being someone who is an expert in a field, And an authority in a field and educate these individuals on that. So just getting exposure is one of the best ways to do that. And looking for these types of jobs as they go opening up, I think that that's important too. And also getting comfortable with public speaking, getting comfortable with teaching. I think that is extremely important because if you do want to do something in the tactical space, knowing how to build rapport is extremely important. Knowing how to speak to and with an audience is extremely important. And I think that the most important factor there is to be a good person. For me, I think being a good person is extremely important. Now The person who's not a good person doesn't know that they're not a good person, right? So that's you know that's weird advice, right? But but caring, right, having this passion for this population, and having a backbone, like do like there I I honestly got I don't know, for lack of a better way of saying it, in trouble, I guess, like or got got leadership upset in my previous role because I was doing what was best for the service member. And sometimes people get in the way of that. All right, are you willing to ruffle some feathers to do what's best for this individual? Within obviously within the legal limits, right? I'm not doing some crazy stuff or anything. so you know, I think all of that stuff is important. So I I know it's a little bit long-winded, but hopefully, you know, someone listening to this got something out of that. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Well, and you know, I think it that it's a good example. Like as people reach out to me and they're like, How do I get into niche roles? I'm like, you can also advocate for yourself in these niche roles. So like if you're going in the food industry, yes, there's potential contention because you may be representing brands or food products that you may not fully agree with. You can still have boundaries within some of those roles, right? Like, I'm gonna talk about X, but I'm only gonna stick to the facts. So like there are ways that If you get into roles that you may not be fully aligned with, hold your moral values. You know, I guess that's kind of what I'm saying because I think I've I've experienced that same thing. I've worked for some companies where they want me to sway on the moral values. And I'm like, actually, like that, that's not truthful and I'm not gonna do that. And sometimes they're like, Okay, yeah, we we wouldn't ask you to do that. Sorry, we asked you. You know what I mean? But I'm like, Yeah, you actually did ask me to do that, but Erik Bustillo: Ha ha Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Thank you for retracting it, because no, I'm not doing it. And others, I've been very transparent. Like, I'm gonna stick with the scientific evidence. That will be my boundary. So if you show me evidence to say X, Y, or Z, then I'll do that. But if not, I'm not gonna do that. So I think that was a really good example. And you had a lot of good little tidbits of advice. So I always appreciate you, Eric. I feel like you're so philosophical, like And that maybe it's perfect you're getting a PhD because people who have PhDs, like you love the philosophy, like you love the theory, you love kind of like walking through the f the processes, which some people like just more direct and I'm not always like that. Okay. Final question here. If you had a crystal Erik Bustillo: Yes. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: ball, Eric, what do you think is coming next in nutrition? Erik Bustillo: I think we're gonna see a continued push on the individualized things right now. It's not just the wearables and all of that, but like your gut, you know, specific recommendations for based on you know your DNA or whatever, which I don't I don't I don't think we're fully there, right? So part of me kind of hates this answer. but I think that that's where we're going. There are so many blood work companies popping up. some, you know, various people in our industry that have gotten involved in that. I'm not saying that it's bad. I'm not saying that it's good, it's just it is what it is. Like we're seeing a growth in this. I think that that and that kind of ties into, I mean, I don't know, maybe some sort of like you've probably seen a lot of this too, like concierge services and that sort of stuff. So I think that whether it's gonna be something like gut microbiome testing. like you you swallow a pill like you can see whatever it is and blood work and the wearables and everything kind of talking with one another. and then some expensive service that maybe will link it all together and hey you have your team here and whatever. I think we're already seeing some of that, but I think that it's gonna move much more in that direction. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: Like that you mentioned that because I'm super fascinated at all these intersections of really it's an end of one science, right? It's you you're having all this personalized dietary data, biomarker data, different, you know, wearables and stuff, and you ultimately are making decisions there. This is where I urge all of you, if you're dieticians, we have to be within those companies because I can't tell you the amount of companies that I've seen that are. Health services, nutrition services, and they don't have any dietitians on staff. So I think I agree with you, Eric. I do think that's a direction we're going. I want more dietitians on staff at all those companies so that way we can be the lens of intersection of science all the way to consumer. So hopefully we'll put that out in the universe and maybe we'll see more dietitians coming in more of these intersection companies. So Eric, as always, Erik Bustillo: Yeah. Kristen Hicks-Roof PhD, RD: thanks so much for coming on the show. Make sure you, if you like the podcast, like, subscribe, leave a review. But most importantly, check out the next episode because every episode I bring out a different dietitian and nutrition expert to share their story and give you tips and advice on how to be successful.