Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / All About Headshots & Resumes!

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All About Headshots & Resumes! · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance, from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: You asked, and we answered.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Today's episode of Making the Impact focuses on two of the most important things in an aspiring dancer's life: the headshot and the resume.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Joining us to give you the details about how to make your headshot and resume stand out is casting director Sean Webb, who also happens to be a former comp kid, professional dancer, and competition judge.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Hello everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here with my co-host Leslie Mueller.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Hey Courtney, how are you doing today?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm great.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: I am also great.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: It is competition season.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: I have not yet been to a competition.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: I have one more month left, but I'm I'm so jazzed seeing everybody's posts from people across the country that are just starting out this month.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is it is finally here, y'all.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: We are pumped about it because all of our judges are gonna go out at IDA affiliated competitions and judge the weekend away and watch all your beautiful hard work on stage.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm so happy about it.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, yay for competition season and yay for this week's episode.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: This is an episode that we knew we had to do.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: We've been waiting a long time to do this episode, and also we needed to have the right guests for this episode.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: But this was a highly requested topic in our Facebook group, which if you haven't joined, be sure to join.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast community on Facebook, where we chat a lot over there about all things dance, and a lot of people tell us topics that they want us to tackle.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: And this was one of them.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking all about headshots and resumes today, which is a topic that you, if you want to have a career in dance, you need to know what your resume should look like, what should be included on your resume, and also what kind of headshot you should have.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna jump into this great discussion today.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited for it.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the crazy thing is the protocols and the expectations of both of those things change so much year to year and season to season.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, yeah, you gotta have your basics, but like 10 years ago, there were different things that were expected or not expected.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really excited to hear from our guest today, who is currently in the world of casting and just knows exactly what is fresh and what needs to be on your resume and headshot currently.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: So super excited to get into this one.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, me too.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: And before we jump into this episode, we want to tell you about our sponsors over here to help make our podcast possible.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: And our sponsor for this week's episode is Level Up Dance Supplies.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Level Up Dance Supplies is a family-owned and operated company.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: They have been the leading retailer of top name brand dance gears since 2010.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: They probably offer the largest selection of dance gears such as Glamour Gear, Rack and Roll, Grits, KK Miami, and others, as well as their own line of dance bags, duffels, and many other accessories to ensure that you are ready for the competition and get there in an organized fashion.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Quality and affordability are a top priority for Level Up.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: They have the lowest prices and offer group discounts.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Follow their Facebook page to see the latest and greatest new products, sales, and coupon codes.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And be sure to use Impact10 at checkout on levelupdanceupplies.com for any level up product.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: You'll receive$10 off.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Some restrictions may apply.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Cure up for the competition season with Level Up Dance Applies.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: And as we head into this competition season, I just wanted to remind our listeners and tell any of our new listeners about one of the special things that Making the Impact offers to IDA affiliated competition, and that is the Making the Impact Award.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: So the Making the Impact Award is a special award given out at every affiliated competition that uses at least one IDA judge.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's basically like the best of the best.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Judges can't stop talking about it.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Judges just love your routine.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: That can be anything from a solo to a huge, large production number, pretty much just what we love to see and that we just can't get over from you know day to day.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh man, that one number.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so we actually have one that uh we didn't get information about from the nationals this summer, uh, this past summer from Diva Dance Competition at their 2022 Nationals.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that goes to Revolution Dance Company at Leap of Faith from New Bedford, Massachusetts, for their small group dance entitled Fight, Flight, Freeze.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: So congratulations to y'all.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: I know that was like six or seven months ago at this point, but we are still so grateful that you let us know about that.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then this season, 2023, the first Making the Impact winner of the 2023 season, Diva Dance competition again, because Diva starts very early in the season.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: They had an event in Milford, Massachusetts.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: So congratulations to Kaleidoscope of Dance and Gymnastics from New Bedford, Massachusetts, and Giada Gandalfi for her solo memories.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: So congratulations to them.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Be on the lookout for the Making the Impact Awards.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: You get a shout-out on the podcast if you let us know that you won that award.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: It is a very cool plaque that you get to display either at your home if you're a soloist or at the studio if you are a group dance.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: So we are super excited to just recognize more dances this season with the Making the Impact Award.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm so excited that we're doing this award again this season.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was a huge hit last year, and I can't wait to see all the other Making the Impact winners.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: All right, everyone, it is time to jump into this episode because we have a lot to cover in a short amount of time.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about headshots and resumes in this next hour on the podcast.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: I am so excited to welcome a brand new guest who I've been asking to be on the podcast for quite some time, and I finally convinced him to be here.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I knew this was the episode for him because he is an active casting director in the industry and a former agent.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm very excited to welcome my very close friend, Sean Webb, to the podcast.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Sean.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_04: Hi, Courtney and Leslie.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks so much for having me.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_04: I'm so glad I finally made it.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: You made it!
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_04: Four seasons in.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_04: We finally got you.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, and it's hard to get you on board, Sean, because you're so busy.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_04: You know, they're sending me around the world casting all over the globe.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm excited to talk about headshots and resumes today.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm I'm so excited.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's gonna be a great discussion.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: I know you've had the opportunity, and I you're gonna tell everybody a little bit more about you.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I've known you for so many years.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: On the dancer side of things, we got connected as judges together, and you were a previous judge on the IDA roster, actually.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's how we met, and we're connected that way, which I love so much.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then you transitioned into agent, now casting director.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: So you've looked at a ton of headshots and resumes through the past few years.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_04: There's about 300 of them on my desk at my office right now.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I knew you were the perfect person to come and give your advice and opinion because we want to really uh approach this discussion for dancers out there who are maybe transitioning from that competitive dance studio to now I want to start auditioning.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: What should my resume look like?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of headshot should I have?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that's such a hard transitional period for so many dancers, and they just don't have that guidance on how how should I structure my resume and what kind of credit should I include.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna dive deep into this chat and I'm pumped to hear what you have to say.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: But before we do, would you mind telling the world a little bit more about you, where you grew up, what if you want to share your training when you were younger and any career credits and what you're working on now?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_04: Sure, let's get into it.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_04: Hi everyone, my name is Sean Webb.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_04: I am a former dancer and performer myself.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_04: I grew up at my mom's studio in the Orlando, Florida area.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_04: Shout out to the Florida Studios, holding it down over there.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_04: So grew up as a dance studio kid, convention, big convention and competition kid.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_04: Definitely kind of ignited my professional career in that space at a at a young age, and then went on to dance professionally and um multiple different avenues within the industry.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_04: I moved to New York City in what year was that?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_04: 2011, I moved here and continued to audition and perform and judge and do all the things.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_04: And then finally just made the decision that I really was always interested in working on the other side of the table in some capacity.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_04: So with that, I um started assisting with auditions, started doing some casting assistant work, built relationships there, and started working with some other casting directors to help assist with their auditions and and the casting process and really just kind of learning that.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_04: While I was doing that, a position opened up at a talent agency for an assistant position, and it sounded very intriguing.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_04: So I went through that process and interview and ended up working there for five years and working my way up to an agent position from an assistant to an agent position, big bicostal agency, and I worked on the dance choreography commercial and print division within our New York office.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_04: And something that was interesting now that we're talking about headshots and resumes, as you were saying, for you know, dancers transitioning and growing up through the industry, we had a kids department as well, which I sort of um helped manage and worked worked with that.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_04: So worked at the agency for about five years, and then lately I am now a senior casting director at a global entertainment production company.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_04: We're based here in New York City.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_04: We also have offices uh in other parts of the country and then an office in London as well.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_04: And so we again global entertainment production company and we do casting and produce events and experiences for theme parks, cruise ships, multiple cruise lines and resorts all over the world.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_04: So that is what is keeping me busy now.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_04: I not only am a casting director for certain products uh within our portfolio, but I audition dancers for everything within our portfolio.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_04: So I help run and facilitate those auditions and then you know put those people in our files and get help get them opportunities uh with everything in our portfolio.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_04: And like I said, I cast a specific product as well.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_04: So that's a little bit about my background.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and I'm just so busy, yes, so busy traveling the world, casting dancers everywhere.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just so excited to see like where your career has taken you because I was pumped when you got the agency position.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: But then this new opportunity of you to step into the casting role, I think it just suits you so well, and it's kind of like where you started your career as a dancer doing uh cruise ships and things, it's just like the perfect full circle for you, and you're such you're so good at this job.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah it's it's amazing being back in the audition rooms, and especially in a uh post-COVID-19 world, you know, we're still kind of going through it, but things are opening up all over the world and opportunities are coming back for in all all facets of the industry.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_04: But just being back in the audition rooms and having, you know, the energy of a live audition and interacting with the performers.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_04: I you've you've choreographed and helped us out with a lot of auditions, Courtney.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_04: And just feeling the excitement and the energy when I when I speak with the dancers and say, like, we're so happy you're here and we're so happy we're all doing this the way that we're doing it, and just feeling that energy is it's it's really amazing.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_04: And I love it so much.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're pumped to finally have you on the pod, and I know we have a lot to cover.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: So let's jump into this episode.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: What should we start with?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Headshots or resumes?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let our guest choose.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_04: I I mean, I definitely think that they are one and the same.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_04: They are a package deal.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_04: They are a it is two pieces of your entire package that you need as a as a working performer.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's headshot and resume go hand in hand.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you're never gonna have one without the other.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_04: And in our industry.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_04: For I'd say let's start with let's start with resumes and then we can go into headshots and we can bounce between the two.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: We love to bounce.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so I think for the youths out there, this is probably one of the hardest things to come up with, unless you happen to be a kid who has a lot of credits.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like a headshot, sure.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody sort of knows, okay, I need, I need a picture of my face.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: I can do that.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's that's a that's a pretty easy fix, even if it's not going to be perfect, you know, you can pick that up pretty quickly.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: But like a resume, you know, I would assume business people, a business resume, yes, looks different than a performer's resume.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: But for a child, um, or for somebody coming out of the competitive scene, they may not have a lot to put on it.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm wondering, just for you personally, uh you came out of a studio just like Courtney and I, you came out of your mom's studio, just like I came out of my mom's studio.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: So how did you learn how to write a dance resume?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Did did your mom tell you?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Did was that something she was able to help you with, or did you figure that out on your own?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_04: It was definitely a mix of both.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_04: I think I knew right away that the resume is the most important means of a resume is how do I how does somebody get in touch with you?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, back then it was still very much like calling on the phone and you know, email was still kind of new and like uh, you know, the technology has definitely taken us to a completely different space than than it was many moons ago.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_04: But we definitely didn't have any sort of like courses or training on how to write them out, but it was very much given to us that like you they need somebody needs to know how to contact you and whatever else you put on there can kind of be tweaked and adjusted as you grow up.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I've sort of held on to that because the most important thing for me of the resume, whether I have a physical copy on my desk or a digital copy in my casting files and in my casting databases is how do I get in touch with you?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_04: And sometimes performers, whether they're freshly starting out at a young age or they're seasoned professionals, sometimes they make it very difficult when the purpose of the resume is not to just list paragraphs and paragraphs of credits and spiels about you, but who are you, where are you from, how do I get a hold of you?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's like the most important thing that I would stress to anyone is that I need those basic, we need those basic pieces of information on them.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_04: Your name, a contact email address, a phone number.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_04: Let's start with that.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_04: Let's keep it very bare bones and at least start with that.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_04: I have been in some audition rooms and taken headshots away and been headshots and resumes away, and I'll look at them days or weeks later.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, there's no information on here.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, you want to hire them and you're like, I can't.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_04: And now I have to like look you up.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_04: We can dive into that.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_04: I know I'm kind of now you're good.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_04: Going around the question, but yeah, that's I think that's the most important thing to start with.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_04: And so for a young dancer, maybe somebody, you know, that's still at a dance studio or maybe that's just uh graduating from their studio and and moving into the industry, we just need the basics to get to know you.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_04: We need I need your name, contact information, you've got to put your height on your resume.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_04: Uh that's for everyone.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_04: That's a piece for everyone.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_04: And then if you want to list like, where did you dance?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_04: What studio are you from?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_04: If you want to list a few conventions and competitions that you've gone to, especially at a young age, I think that's totally fine because I've been in this industry for a long time.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_04: I know all of them.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_04: And if I don't know one of the names of these conventions or competitions, maybe I'm gonna look it up and be like, oh, I haven't heard of that one, or oh, you were miss or Mr.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_04: This or that.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what is what does that mean?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_04: There are certain uh brands that I obviously do know very well and sometimes partner with and audition there, or I've known, you know, those convention competition owners for a long time, but there's there's definitely more that I'm willing to research and find out, you know, sort of what does that say about you and where where are you from and what kind of training does is that providing?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_04: And then I have a question.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: When do you take that off your resume?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: The things like conventions, competitions, Miss Starp, whoever you are, when does that come off?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think you're totally right.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's perfectly fine and fair if you don't have any quote unquote professional credits or community theater credits or anything besides a dance competition to list.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: When but when does that come off, in your opinion?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_04: I believe that once you start really diving into the industry and getting some things on your resume credit-wise, you can go ahead and remove them.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's important that if you're you're fresh to the dance scene, keep them on there because that for me is a is a talking point because I can be like, oh, you went to this convention and you were up for this title.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_04: Like, tell me about that, or you know, I can get some more information about you.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_04: But I think once you start, okay, you booked this gig with this choreographer, or you did this episode of this TV show, or you you booked, you know, you're a you're one of the kids in the music man on Broadway.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_04: I no longer need to know that you're also Miss Starbiz as well.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_04: Like that that no longer holds weight in terms of how I'm thinking about what kind of performer you are, because I know based on those other things that are there.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like you know that like they are they're at this level if they're in Music Man on Broadway.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_04: Like I And listen, if if you're 14 and and you have that on your resume, but you still have some of the conventions and competitions, that's totally fine because you may still be in that world as well.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's true.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_04: So for me, that's okay.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_04: But when you're when you're 18, 19, 20, I would say keep them on when you're like 18, 19, because you're you're just entering the industry as a professional.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_04: I can kind of assess, and not just me, other people can kind of assess your training and your background in the the events you're attending and get to know you a little more.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_04: But there definitely becomes that point where it's okay, you're starting to work.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_04: You're you you now have an agent representation or you you have these credits, you're starting to do things with these working choreographers, and that's gonna tell me a little bit more that you're working with this choreographer or this person or signed with this agent rather than where you competed or or took classes.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I have a few thoughts.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: First thought is I want to let everyone know how I learned how to write my resume.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it was my agency.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: My very wait.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Which means post-booking her first job.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because you didn't have an agent when you booked your first job, correct?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I so I just thought that was important to note.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: So what's crazy about my story and my resume is that I booked my first job without a resume because I booked my first job at a Royal Caribbean audition that took place at Star Power Nationals in Ocean City, Maryland.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yes.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Competition blending into professional life.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that was my very first job.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: We all worked for Royal Caribbean.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's how Leslie and I met.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: You worked for Royal Caribbean, Sean.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I went to an audition at an at a competition.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't have a resume.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was on vacation.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: I showed up in in like cut-off sweatshorts and like one sock and like booked a job somehow without a resume.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, just my talent.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Somehow it got me a job.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then I did the job.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Then I moved to New York and was looking for representation, had an inn at the agency, and I don't even know what I sent them.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: I was just like, I'm right, I'm right off a cruise ship and I moved to New York City.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Here I am.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: And they somehow signed me and then gave me a resume template and said, fix your resume, girl.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because wow, this looks like a hot mess.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know what I sent them, but they gave me an actual template to show me how I'm sure I'm supposed to structure my resume.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: The agency thing goes here.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Here's where your name goes, here's where your contact information goes.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or right, if you have TV things, if you have theater, shows, training at the bottom, special skills at the bottom.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like it was that was how I learned.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's really, I feel very lucky that my agency, my very first agent, was able to guide me in that way.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: And not every dancer gets that.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And before I continue on, Leslie, did college teach you how to write your resume?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I learned in uh high school, I had a family friend who was very active in the community theater programs and kind of took me under her wing before I started auditioning for colleges and stuff.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, you know, my my resume by the time I got into college already had all of my high school theater, already had all of my high school chorus, already had all of my, like it was already structured the way it was pretty much structured until I, you know, retired.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: It all just got changed, you know, stuff got dropped off, kind of like Sean said after it didn't matter anymore that I was Fastrata in Pippin when I was a junior in high school.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, first of all, not that.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so my I was lucky because I had already had, you know, it pretty much laid out the way that I wanted it to.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then over the years, it just the font changed, or I would do funny things like by the end of it, I was so annoyed because I'm very short, and a lot of people don't like to hire short dancers, just depending on the gig, whatever.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I would always put five feet tall and then in parentheses, but five three in heels.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because like it's quirky, it's funny, it's a talking point, it's true.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that makes me a little more castable if I'm a little taller.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we can talk about ways to juge your resume when when it's not really lying, but yeah, I want to talk about it.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Just I want to come back to us talking about like when to remove things.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the other thing to think about, especially for like we are talking about right now, competitive dancers who may have accolades that they've achieved throughout their time as a competitive dancer that they want to put on their resume, I think there also is a sp for me, like a specific expectation of the caliber of that credit.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like it has, I think it needs to be like at the national level, the achievement.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that you I don't think that, I mean, of course, you need to start with something, but I think that it's like if this was a one day regional event and you only had five people in your category and you won title, I don't think that that we've I don't I'm sorry, like I don't think that really belongs on the resume.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yes, it's their achievement, but we're really we're really fluffing it right now.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like we, it's really fluffy.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_04: I agree.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_04: That's really reaching.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_04: And while you know the casting director may A know enough about that world to decipher that.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's also enough to say, these are the conventions and competitions that I attended.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_04: Give a bullet point of like five or six of them.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_04: You have a national title or a runner-up for a national title or high score.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_04: Great.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_04: Throw it in there.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_04: But every single thing, you know, you know, you don't need to say that you were Miss Runner Up or your county fair.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_04: Like you're whatever.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_04: Not everything has to be in there.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so keep it, keep it concise.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_04: And again, like you were saying, always editing.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_04: Always, you know, hey, I want to keep that, I want to keep that national title in, but I'm removing a bunch of the other um educational, you know, junior credits essentially.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_04: But then once you add a little bit more, you can go ahead and take that national title off.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_04: Because once you're 25 and you have a tour or something under your belt or enough work experience, even doing multiple cruise lines and doing, you know, this, this gig here and this gig here, like I no longer need to know about your uh pre-professional experience.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I always kept a kind of a master resume of like that was I'd never I never removed anything.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: I just kept adding to that one and just held on to it so that I could kind of call back, like, I like oh, when did I do that job?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Or who was that choreographer?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, you just never know when you might need information.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Even just for your own memory.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_04: And as a as a professional performer resume as well, you're always editing it for everything that you're going in for because you don't need to fill so many people think they need to fill all the space on the page.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_04: And when we're at the audition table and there's a ton of things happening, we're just scanning.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_04: We're looking for like keywords, key credits, key choreographers.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_04: And I mean, I'm writing all over.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_04: This is why I like the physical headshot and resume in front of me when I'm in session, because I can make notes, I can jot something down, I can underline something, I can circle it.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_04: And like for me, it's my own little language of what that means, but it gives me something to point back to.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_04: And oh, maybe you've worked for the company that I work for, or oh, I know this choreographer, and let me go ask him about this person if you know I need a recommendation or I just want some more information.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_04: Like these are all just quick talking points.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_04: And so if if you have a if you list everything you've ever done and it's paragraphs and bullet points and fonts and this and that, then it just becomes hard to even look at.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_04: And that's just easier for you to get missed because then I'm like, I don't want to die for all this.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_04: In different markets, it's it's different as well.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_04: Like a New York City headshot and resume sometimes looks different than a New York uh LA headshot or resume.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_04: We go across the pond to London and other places around the world, and sometimes I'm getting packets of information, and it's not just a double-sided format that we that we typically use here in New York.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_04: So sometimes too much more isn't always better, right?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_04: Keeping it just concise and here's some talking points and here's some some credits, I think is is is enough.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: So something I want to dive into is to kind of a description of the ideal format that we want a resume.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like especially being able to sit a little bit behind the table with you recently, Sean, on the casting side, and obviously not casting, but just kind of being there and observing the resumes that are submitted by dancers, there is a lot of confusion as to what the what the format's supposed to be for everybody across the board.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, Sean, do you want to like dive into like what your ideal format looks like for like when you're glancing at a resume from top to bottom?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_04: Uh for me, big bold name at the top center.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: Big.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_04: Big bold name.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_04: Easy to read.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_04: Easy to read.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Shouldn't have to squint.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_04: If you for me as well, and this is just a personal preference, you totally don't have to do this, it's not the norm, but if you have a very unique name or la first or last name, if you want to like somehow phonetically spell it out, like in parentheses, definitely helpful.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not saying like I'm saying like the the very unique names, like help us out because we're trying.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_04: You've heard me call these names, and listen, I'm gonna get half right and half wrong, but I'm gonna try, I'm gonna make the adjustment.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_04: But if you have a very unique name, like give a little clue there.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_04: And that just also shows your personality because you're show you you know that you have a unique name.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_04: Right, exactly.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_04: And we love that.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_04: It's beautiful.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_04: And I wanna I wanna make sure that I'm addressing all the performers as close to the proper way as possible.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_04: Right either under the name or to the side of the name in a very prominent location.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_04: I need your contact information, your email, your phone number, and some attributes about you.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_04: I need your height, I need maybe your hair color.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_04: I it can change, especially for the female identifying performers.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_04: It can change a lot, but general hair color, great.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_04: If you want to put your pronouns, that's great as well.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_04: I do not need your weight.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_04: I will never need to know how much Say it again.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_04: I will never need to know how much you weigh.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: There we go.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_04: Need your height, and I need we can talk about all the other things in different ways rather than listing a number of weight.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_04: That doesn't affect anything immediately in the room.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: So Do you need my P.O.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: box?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_04: I do not need your address.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: All right, good to know.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: No mailing address.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_04: I am not walking up to your door to knock with with a check like Ed McMahon.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_04: I am not coming over.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_04: I do think it's helpful if you don't live in the area where we are casting or in the country that we are casting for.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's helpful if you want to let me know.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I'm from Toronto, Canada.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: Great point.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_04: And if you're gonna do that, I would also say, do what is your visa status?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_04: Like, maybe you don't have one and that's okay, but if if I see, oh, you're from Toronto, you're from Vancouver, you're from London, like that's where your brain goes.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_04: That's where my brain goes.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna Can I hire you?
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_04: Can I hire how can I hire you if if I'm gonna put you through all these rounds, how I want to make sure that I'm not wasting any of our time.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_04: And the certain things that I cast for, there's a little more flexibility.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_04: You dive into the TV and film world, that's a whole different beast with same as Broadway with and Broadway as well, exactly, for visa status.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_04: So it's great to know, like, oh, this is our friend from Canada.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_04: Let me make a little star next to that.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_04: And I really like her, but I need to follow up and kind of find out what their visa status is.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_04: But if you have an 01, go ahead and say, I'm from Canada, I have an 01 visa.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_04: Boom.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_04: That makes you more marketable right out the gate, right?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_04: And less digging that uh casting director or production manager has to do to help get you the job.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_04: Because at the end of the day, we want to get you the job, right?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_04: Like that is our goal.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, we want you all to succeed and we want to we wanna hire you all and move on to the next project.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: What about like age?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: I tricky one.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's a trick.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_04: That's a tricky one.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: For 18 and under, I think that it's crucial to know that.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: I or like 18 plus or something.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: 18 plus.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you look young and you're I don't know.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_04: Oh I think if you're like 16 or 17, you can say turns 18 on this date.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_04: Or like turns 18 on this is where it gets tricky because there are there are there are recent laws where as casting and em central employment employment recruiters, we are not allowed to ask you your age.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_04: So there are ways around it, and there we do need to verify if you're over or under 18 for certain things.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something that's like listed in most audition notices?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Is 18 and over are only eligible to audition.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, like if there was someone on the cusp that's like, I'm about to turn 18 and I want a job, but I'm 17, are they even allowed to come?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: So at least like the people on the other side of the table know that everyone is an adult in the room.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_04: They would still be allowed to attend.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_04: They it it would just be kind of made clear that they may or may not be able to get the job because of their age.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_04: I would say easy rule of thumb, don't put your actual age on the resume.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_04: If you're about to turn 18, maybe say like list a clever way of saying, hey, I'm about to turn 18 because that's just gonna help you get the job, depending on when it's casting and what it is is for.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_04: Typically here in in the States, don't put your age and we will figure out the rest of those logistics as we get to know you a bit further.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_04: But past that, let's move on to your experience.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what do you have going on?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_04: And I am very much a clean column, clear lay it out for me so I can visually see it.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_04: Like give me the name of the project or the company or what it is, who was the choreographer or director, or like give me a name, the producer, even depending on the project, maybe where it took place or what episode it was or what theater it was at.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_04: And just keep it like very clear because these are all talking points.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_04: I want to get to know you more.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_04: I want to say, oh, you did this gig with this person at that.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_04: Was it also with this and with that?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_04: Like, then we can have an an engaging conversation about it later.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Do you need dates on any of these?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_04: You do not ever put dates on your resume.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Good to know.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_04: If you danced at the VMAs with Britney Spears, let me guess which year you did it.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_04: But if it was in 1996, you're aging yourself out of the role, probably.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_04: So let let me get to know you a little bit more with that.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, don't ever put the dates.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, that's so helpful.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_04: I need to remove a date off of my resume.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: I actually have learning.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: We're so much learning.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Fun fact, I have my I still have a high school credit on my resume, and that is the Young Arts Award that I won in my senior year of high school because that's such a credible known in uh organization in the arts industry.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: And like that's a huge achievement that I've always had it on my resume, but it does say the date.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it says 2007 Young Arts winner for modern dance, and made it and I've thought about it too recently.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: I've thought about like, oh man, if they really do that was a minute ago, they will know I'm over 30 years old.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so I'm gonna remove the 2007 and they don't need to know what when I want it.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_04: You just say you were a young arts winner, and the end.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_04: There it is.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the I was young then.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_04: I see a lot of people put things all the time like professional experience.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, well, what's what's non-professional experience?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like you there's certain words that you think are adding value to your resume, but they really aren't.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_04: You can just say experience, or if you have multiple things in multiple areas, you can say like live performance, TV and film, commercials.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_04: That like you can break it down.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_04: But if there's just one credit or one thing below each subheading, you don't need to do that because we know when we're looking at it that oh, you were on an episode of SNL and you were also in this regional theater job that those are two completely different things.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_04: Like we we know what that means.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_04: And if it's laid out and there's breathing room and it's you know aesthetically pleasing to look at and not cluttered, I'm gonna know that those are completely different things.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_04: Whereas if you put so much stuff on there, you've made all these different colors and borders and this and that, and like it it's visually unpleasing to the eye, then it just becomes it becomes too much.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_04: So definitely you want to list your experience and however many credits you have, you can definitely edit and remove some things.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_04: There's a misconception that you have to put everything in chronological order.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_04: And that is not the case.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_04: You should be moving rows up and down on your resume depending on what you're going in for.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_04: Because if you're if you're auditioning for a certain musical, let's say, or e a cruise line, but it's buried in and I have to look for it, showing me that you have cruise line experience should be at the top of your resume.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_04: In any sort of opinion, it may not be the most exciting credit, but for what you're auditioning for, it is.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that people just think, oh, well, I I need to list it in some sort of you know chronicological order and sort of the way that I sort it, but no, it should be kind of curated based on what you're going in for so that the information is easy for the casting director or the casting assistant or the audition monitor that may be typing you out before you even step foot in the room to see this information.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Another key point of the you must constantly be editing is you need to have that document saved as a Word file that can be edited, but then download whatever version you're using as a PDF to send because nobody wants to receive a Word document in an email.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: If I need to title it properly with your name and it can't have like jumbled like file number one, two, three, four, five as in no absolutely the amount of my resume.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_04: That just sit there because I don't have the time to go through and edit them and look through them, and then sometimes I'll find them and I'm like, oh, I really like them, but uh uh uh uh like it's uh it's just adding more work for everybody else involved where just name your resume, your first name, your last name, resume.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_04: And that way when you need to save it as a PDF really quick or you need to export it or you need to whatever and send it off.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes you're doing this from your phone in the lobby of the studio that you're auditioning for.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_04: So you kind of got to get ahead of the game and just get ready to have it have a PDF have it named properly and just make it easy for everybody else that you're gonna be sharing this this information with.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_04: So moving down the list of how the formatting should go, that's when you can add in education, training, things like that.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_04: Like if you went to school for dance, that's amazing.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_04: You want to list where you went, you do not need to put what year you graduated.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_04: You just say this is where I went to school.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_04: These are some notable professors or guest artists that you know were there for you during your time at that at that place.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: I have a question about that.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: What if there's someone like me?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm learning so much.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: What if there's someone like me who went to college for a hot second but did not graduate?
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do if you have the BFA, you put the BFA, but if you don't have the BFA, then can you still list that as training?
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_04: That's a tricky one.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: I have it on my resume.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have Marymount Manhattan College on my resume with the teachers who trained me for my one semester that I went there because I know it's a prestigious school, but I don't have that I have a BFA.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't insinuate that, but I did train there.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I put it under my training.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_04: Fair.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's totally up to you.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_04: Again, that's a conversation piece that if somebody that maybe, you know, is auditioning at Marymount or is has connections with a dean there or a professor there or whatever and wants to have that conversation, you can say, absolutely, I went there and I went there for this amount of time, and then I booked a job and I did this and I did that.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_04: Like again, this is all I'm never direct hiring people because I'm looking at your resume and just saying, you booked it, you did it.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_04: Like these are conversation pieces.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_04: Even even talent, you know, that we would we rep at the agency, like that have these insane resumes.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, they may be getting direct book for things, but they're still talking points.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_04: And the the people that are hiring them, the casting directors, the creative directors, the choreographers, they know these people based on those credits already.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_04: So again, it's a talking point, it's a it's a conversation, it's it's a job interview on your resume.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_04: And we, as casting directors, we just want to get to know everybody more.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_04: So I think for that question about about the college, like that's totally up to you to decide.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_04: And however you wanna if it's something that you don't want to talk about later, then you should remove it.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_04: If you're okay with talking about it and sharing your journey and your story of where you are today, leave it on.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, love it.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_04: Again, as you I think develop through your career as a performer, you can start to remove some of the education and training sections.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like it doesn't need to be as vast as it would be if you're fresh out of high school or fresh out of college, because I don't need to see anyone you've ever taken class from anymore.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_04: If you have plenty of experience listed at the top.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_04: So let's save valuable real estate for that.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a good rule of thumb for listing training people, like people you've trained under, is if I could call them up and say, hi, Bob Fosse, do you know Courtney Ortiz?
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: How was she to work with?
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Then you could put him on the resume.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: If Bob Fossey doesn't know who you are from Adam, then maybe don't put him because I might call him.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: You never know.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: I might call because again, it's a talking point.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's getting to know you.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's you as the casting agent or casting director saying, hmm, I wonder how she is to work with.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: Her credits look really great, but like, is she a nice person?
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: Let me just call him real quick.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: And if he doesn't know who you are, it doesn't look very good.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: Very small dance world, everybody.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it it's very quick.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's easy for us to know when you're kind of fluffing things on your resume because if Sean sees that someone says that they trained with me, does that dancer know that Sean knows me?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: They probably don't.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then Sean's gonna see, Oh, Courtney, I saw you're on someone's resume.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: How do you what do you think of this girl?
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: It says that you worked with her, and I'd be like, I don't even know who that is.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: What are you talking about?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's the last thing you want.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: You do not want that.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_04: It's amazing to take class and have this vast, you know, pool of of teachers and choreographers and things that you can people you can take courses from.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_04: But again, you're listing essentially you're listing this person as a reference.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_04: So if you barely know each other, then I don't don't put don't put the name down.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like if you train with them at a convention, I mean you train with them, yes, that's great.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: But like again, like Leslie said, like you they have you you should have like a Well, did you really train with them?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's a whole nother conversation.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: If you took a class from them, maybe if you every in a ballroom on a carpet.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, that it's true.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_04: If you're not assisting them, if they don't know you, maybe they don't m fully know you by name, but if they're if that connection isn't developed, then I don't think I don't need to know that you took class from somebody once once at a convention.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, and like I said, the education and training section I think can get smaller and smaller as your career develops.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_04: And again, it's just taking up real estate on your resume because you want to keep it to a one page, you want it to be a one sheet, and so that can start to get smaller in that section.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_04: And then at the very bottom, you know, you want to put some special skills that you have.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_04: And maybe we can spend the three of us can spend a moment talking about what are special skills.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: What's a special skill?
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: What does that even mean?
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: What are you allowed to put down there?
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's a great space on your resume.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_04: It's also a wild space, and I've seen some crazy things.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_04: For me, like, do you have tumbling ability and what does that mean?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_04: I I think is helpful.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_04: If you are international and you have a visa or uh a certain passport or you hold multiple passports, that could be useful for some international work.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_04: License if you can drive.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_04: If you can drive, if you have a passport, that's great.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_04: If you're not fluent in a language, I do not need to know about it.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_04: If you conversational Spanish is not helpful.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_04: Conversational Spanish is not helpful, just like basic tap is not helpful.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_04: Like hopefully we all have that.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: If you're like a sick hoofer, put that down there.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that should already be in your training.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: We should know that from your training.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_04: But like But you can re-emphasize it down at the bottom, and then I can go back and I can see a teacher and be like, oh, I know that person, and then it all connects the dots from your resume from there.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: Partnering, I think, is crucial to put to just let us know that you understand how to do that if you've done a lot of lifts before, if you and because you wouldn't put that on there unless you were comfortable being partnered too.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like Exactly.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so I think that's important to put.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_04: And anything you list, you should be able to demonstrate in the room.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_04: On command.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're spit me before you be very careful about your tumblings.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: Be very be do not say that I can do uh, you know, all the tumbling passes if you're not ready to do it, because they will ask you to do it.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: And the number of times I've seen some people fail because it's not warmed up.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and listen, if it's on your resume, they assume you can do it in any circumstance on a cruise ship, on a moving platform, in Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade on the concrete.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have to really be confident in your abilities for any of those special skills because they'll get they're gonna ask you.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_04: 100%.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: I have a funny special skill story.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I've always put on my special skills that I can whistle, which is a special skill.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's I've that's been on my resume too.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a great whistler.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, there have been many shows that I've done where people are required to whistle and people can't, and then there's people off stage whistling for the other people.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, I've always had it on my resume.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, of course, the one time the casting asks me to whistle, your lips.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: And my lips are so dry because I just finished singing, which I had a horrible singing audition.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then the reading, scanning through my resume.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you can whistle.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: Can you whistle something for us?
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh god, and then I'm driving so hard and I'm like, like nothing's gonna be out.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just so pathetic.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'll never forget it because it was just such an embarrassing moment in the room.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I promise I can whistle.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you don't want to be that person where you're like, oh, I yeah, I actually I can get my aerial, don't worry, I have it.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, do you though?
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, no, you know?
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_04: And at when I was at the agency, we would work on all kinds of projects, whether it was like a live event or an industrial or a commercial or a this or that.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_04: And to keep it this simple, it's like if you put that you can skateboard on your under your special skills, if you don't own a skateboard, then you can't skateboard.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_04: Because guess what?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_04: If that commercial casting director was like, oh, they skateboard, they must be able to do tricks, they must be able to do that.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_04: Bring your skateboard to the casting.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, well, I don't have one.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_04: Got it.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_04: You don't skateboard.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I can't you can't help.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: You can't be helped.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_04: We're taking it out of dance for a moment and just making it like real every day in that moment.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like, you so you don't skateboard.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_04: So just be very clear about what you do.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_04: If you tumble, if you do aerial work, if you do this, if you do that.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: If you rollerblade, if you do baton twirling, if you can breathe fire, if you know how to yo-yo.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, these sound stupid.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: I swear to God, like you never know when someone might need that.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like for a while, I had like crochet and knitting on my resume because I knew how to do that.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, to me, that's a special skill.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: Not everyone doesn't know how to crochet.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you never know when a commercial will be like, we need somebody that knows how to do this.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: You just don't know.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_04: So I've probably worked on one that I needed to find clients that could crochet while tap dancing.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: I right, right, exactly.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_04: The weirdest things pop up.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_04: Special skills is a great area, but sometimes people just overflood it with nonsense.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like, keep it concise, keep it to what you do, what you know, and again, more talking points of getting to know you.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:00
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• 44:04
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• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: And now let's get back to the show.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_04: So that's sort of my dream layout.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think that things that I've seen recently on resumes that before we get into the headshot talk, which I'd love to jump into, things that I've seen recently on resumes is just like the form the just the format in general is wrong.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: So like I want everyone to really listen to what we just talked about because I really think we clarified it.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously this is a podcast so you don't have the visual aspect of what we're talking about.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I think I've already decided that I'm going to, if you're in our Facebook group, I'm going, once this episode airs, I'm going to share my resume and show you what it looks like.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: So you can see, okay, this is how it's formatted.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, these are what the credits look like, these are how they they're discussed.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think a lot of people think that the resume is supposed to look like a regular I'm applying for a job resume, and it's very different.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: And with that being said, we are talking about professional resumes.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, a teaching resume or a choreography resume is a professional resume, but you it's it's actually a different kind of format.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's still gonna look completely different.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna look completely different than what your professional audition resume is going to look like as a dancer.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, and that can be a whole nother podcast episode because we don't have the time.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that actually I would say like that teaching one feels a little bit more like a regular uh resume that you would present to go to a job.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: A business resume.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like a business resume that has like actual paragraphs of your skills and the things that you did under these jobs and the dates might be there.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: And could be longer than one page because I think two performance resumes are one page because it has to be segue stapled to your headshot.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, let's talk about that.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: So the ideal size for at least in New York City, we are talking, and and you can let us know, Sean, if this is accurate in other uh regions around the country.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: But for all of us as New Yorkers, the ideal size for a headshot and resume needs to be an eight by ten, everybody.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: Not an eight and a half by eleven.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: That is already wrong.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're already wrong if it's an eight and a half by eleven, because your headshot should be printed on eight by ten.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: You staple the resume, you print the resume off on eight and a half by eleven document paper, you staple it in all four corners to the back, and then you trim it to make it be eight by ten.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: I hope it why it's not any easier in 2023.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: I do not understand.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: But yes, that is how it is.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's how it has to be.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_04: The struggle that keeps on struggling.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: You have to cut your you have to cut it.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: It is so annoying.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking at one right here.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: Sean brought some resumes uh with to use as like a guide, and here's one right here looking at us that you did didn't grab the scissors and didn't cut it.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's like attention to detail for me, actually.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a first impression, to be quite honest, is I don't know if that's how you feel.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, the amount of people that are turning in, and I'm casting or these auditions are hundreds and thousands of people sometimes, and it's the amount of things people bring and they're not stapled, or they have a safety pen.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_04: I've seen bobby pins holding things together.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_04: It's like somebody has a stapler, or there's one at the front desk, or bring, you know, just come prepared.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_04: Bring a little mini, a little mini stapler with you and make it work.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: Charge per staple if somebody needs to borrow it.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like another thing I want to just mention that I thought about and that I've seen recently and I've seen others do is that a lot of people will get their resumes printed onto the back of directly printed onto the back of their headshot.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: You do not want to do that.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because of all the reasons we just listed, because your resume should be evolving and changing for each audition that you go into and adjusting slightly.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: And when you get a new credit, how can you add it when it's already printed onto the back?
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_04: And now you're having to throw all that away.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: And half the time the printing companies for the headshot won't let you print any less than like 300 or something ridiculous.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, you really you know, I I did do that a couple of times because somebody was offering a deal where you could get like 50.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I was auditioning a lot, you know, with it printed on the back.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I did that like the one time, but it it really is not, it's it sounds like a great fix for the problem of the you know, the cutting, but it's really not.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: Don't don't do it.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_04: And all you have to do with the Word document is just set up your margins to be eight by ten.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_04: And that way you're you're always making a revision, maybe on your way to the studio to go to this audition or you're stopping by staples to print out your your resume really quick, it's already formatted and set up.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_04: And then all you have to do is just little do trim trim trim staple, give it to the casting assistant, and you're good to go.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_04: And as you've seen at the table with me, Courtney, when you don't staple it properly or it's formatted completely differently than everybody else's, as I'm thumbing through them and calling out names and whatever, people like people go missing.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_04: P I lose pieces of information from the packet because it's not properly assembled.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_04: And again, you're in the room live and it's already hard for me to find you.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_04: And you're right here.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to make the casting director's job harder.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_04: I want to find you.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_04: We want to hire you.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_04: We want to hire all of you.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_04: And depending on the types of projects that uh the casting director or the choreographer is is what they're working on, they may have hundreds of roles and things available.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_04: So, like it that's definitely the nature of my job right now.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_04: We have so many opportunities for dancers around the world and performers and singers and singer dancers and aerialists, and we want to hire all of you.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_04: So just having a proper headshot and resume and assembled the right way and delivered the right way, you're already ahead of the game.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_04: By doing it.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, glad we talked about that because woof, so many people are coming without the staples, y'all.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: Just don't forget the staples, everybody.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually funny.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just thinking about the fact that my boyfriend's not in the dance world, but he used to run a rehearsal space that would host auditions.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that was like one of the most frustrating things on his end that he would always say whenever there was an audition, the dancers would always come unprepared, asking for scissors, asking for staples.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: And let's be real, we've all done it.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: We've all showed up to ask, Do you have a stapler?
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because, and like at a lot of the New York studios now, they do have like a little space that's designated for this is your resume prep station.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: At least they have that.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: Remember NOLA and the mean man at NOLA, and that guy would never give you a stapler.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't come prepared, sorry about it.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_04: And it's just essentials that should be a part of your audition bag that you, you know, if as a working professional or diving into the industry to be a working professional, it's just something you should have ready.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_04: You should always have extra headshots and extra resumes in your yep.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, yeah.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: This is my little thing that I this was in my audition bag and it's it's now in my um Capezio like notebook that I bring everywhere for fittings because it's got my pins, it's got my post-its, it's got my stapler, it's got my scissors.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it was in, it was literally in the back of all my sheet music in that binder because you just you just need all that stuff.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: And and I was always the person who was asked to, you know, oh gosh, Leslie has that.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go ask Leslie, you know?
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I like, I like to be that person.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_04: And that way you're just always ready.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_04: You have your stapler, you have your headshot, your resume, all the things just ready to go.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: So here we are at headshot land.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: Sean, for a dance headshot, or I guess I guess I got we're talking dance, so let's let's kind of live in the dance world.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: What are the main goals for a dance headshot to accomplish from your perspective?
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_04: So if we're just talking about headshot and not body shot, I think the the most important thing is that I should be able to look at your headshot and look at you in the room and identify that this is you.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think nice basically.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_04: Let's keep it real simple and real to the point.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_04: Tell us how to contact you and look like your photo at the end the end episode over.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_04: I care I care more about what how you dance and how you move and how you perform in the room that than anything else, but I need to take this away with me and remember who you are.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_04: And remember, oh, this is so-and-so.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_04: Now I need to dig through my files of footage and the, you know, the digital that we took of you if you made it through the end with us, and the information that's in your your packet, and I need to like make the correlation between all of these moving parts as I'm seeking to put you forward through the process to then maybe get you approved with creative, like all of that has to be assembled on my end.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_04: And if I the amount of times that I see somebody amazing in the room and I'm loving this person, we put them through, we get them on file, we it's all it's all going good.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_04: Weeks later, I then remember that they didn't have the greatest headshot or it was a little confusing.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I look at it and I'm like, I don't re I would not remember this person if I tried.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_04: So it's it's not even just about the quality of the photo or this or that.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's the vibe of the photo of me remembering, like, yep, that was this person and this is what they were wearing and this is how they danced.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_04: I remember, I remember them.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_04: It's so that I can make that connection.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_04: So simplest and first and foremost, it just needs to look like you.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's important uh like for all the parents that have, you know, young kids that are maybe diving into the industry and they're thinking they need to spend all this money and they need this whole photo shoot and this and that.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_04: Listen, your kids are gonna be growing up and changing every single year as we're doing this.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_04: When I was working in the kids' department at my agency, we would say, Don't spend, don't spend a thousand dollars on headshots for your kids.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_04: Your kid is 12, in four years, they're not gonna look like this person at all.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_04: And you're not you're gonna need new digitals and new photos every couple of months and every year because you're growing and developing and changing.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_04: So just like a a well-framed photo that, you know, you're not doing any kind of crazy poses, you're not wearing, you know, any sort of print that's gonna be obnoxious in a couple of years.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_04: It may be trendy and cute and cool now, but it's probably just gonna be distracting and it's gonna be very outdated very soon.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_04: Big thing for me, I would say contrast with like what you're wearing and the background of of what the the photo is.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I'm a big fan of grays and earth tones and neutrals on both ends, but I need to see contrast.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_04: Please don't wear a pink shirt and have a bright red background of your photo because that's not gonna deliver.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_04: It's very clashy and it's just not gonna be flattering no matter how good you think it looks.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, a nice earth tone in the back and a solid color top or shirt or something like that.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think about do you have a preference on headshots that are taken in studio or versus outside shots?
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_04: Honestly, it depends on your photographer.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it depends on looking at their portfolio.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_04: And I know I know a ton of photographers, and I feel like I've had a lot of headshots done over the decades where the shoot was 100% outside.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it was a trend like 10 years ago.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_04: It was definitely a trend.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like we're now in studio.
• 56:02
  unknown: Yeah.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_04: Because you can do so many things with like or like in studio with a window.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_04: And different types of lighting within studio and portrait lighting and this and that.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_04: And it's so easy now to like change the background color.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_04: Or we would say that all the time with uh when we would review headshots for our clients at the agency that like we really like this one.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_04: This is a great shot, but like can you ask the photographer to change the background color in post, not to go do another shoot.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_04: But it's like this this pairing of the colors doesn't work, but we really like these photos and these are our select.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_04: So if they can make the background a light pink, I think we're set.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_04: Great.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_04: And they would do it.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_04: And it turns out amazing.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: There's more flexibility in that sense because then you don't have the blurry.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think the blurry outdoor shot all like does look good, but then depending on like how busy the background is outside, it can be a little distracting.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, and and we I mean that's kind of how we started the discussion was that like trends for the headshots, especially will evolve through the years.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like I remember when I first moved to New York, black and white was in.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was like we were so we were still doing it now.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like and I mean that was like 2007, like black and white headshots.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: You better have a black and white headshot color.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: No one gets printed in color nowadays.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a black and white headshot, uh not really you've already dated yourself.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_04: And I just think a classic framing of like a headshot where I need to see the like, don't cut off the top of your head, don't pull, don't be zoomed out too far, like show us a little bit of your upper body, and just so we can see a little bit of your frame and your build without revealing too much, because again, we're gonna get to know you more and it doesn't need to be that detailed.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_04: So I think just like a nice close-up classic headshot framing works best.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_04: And then there's if if you're getting a full shoot done, there are other options you can do, like a three-quarter body shot is great.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_04: And then you can do a full body shot, you can do dance uh like action shots, but I think the tried and true, the the classic headshot framing will never go out of style.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_04: And if you if you uh keep it neutral with what you're wearing and the lighting and the framing and all the things, you can use the same headshot for a long time.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yes as an adult.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_04: Again, with the kids, they're gonna keep growing and changing.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_04: So just a nice clear photo will work and people always will understand like these are kids.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_04: So you don't just get the job because you spent twelve hundred dollars and had Ansel Adams studio take your photo.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_04: Like you don't just immediately win because of that.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_04: So for the kids and parents, like don't go, don't go overboard at a young age.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_04: And look at like look look on agencies' websites and look at photograp dance photographers and headshot photographers' websites of the types of photos that they're taking so that you can get a little inspiration and understand what it should be.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_04: So that way when you go to your photographer that may be a friend or a family member or somebody, they know what they're doing and not just what you kind of thought looked right in the moment and it's just completely wrong.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think some of the some of the kids and parents listening, the only experience they may have with uh headshot photography would be for like the photogenic category at competitions.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm curious what like your opinion, because you've judged also what would be the main differences between a photo for that venue versus a more professional, like I'm auditioning for a job venue, because I have my thoughts and I'd love to hear yours.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_04: Not gonna lie, I always would look at the photogenic entries as if I was looking at professional headshots.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_04: Obviously, the intention is a little different, but I think we're all looking for a quality photograph of the person.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_04: That is the bare bones minimum of what either of those things mean in completely different spaces, where it's not about like, oh, Susie's wearing a cute cardigan and hat and is holding these flowers and looking over her shoulder, and but it's blood, it's blurry and it's black and white.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_04: It's like what's I'm there's so much happening in this photo that I'm not exactly sure what the intention is, where just a well-framed, you know, cute shot of them smiling and showing their personality and showing who they are, like that's I kind of think what it's all about.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_04: And that's what casting needs as well.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_04: Because it's the same thing.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_04: And aside from uh performer casting and dancer casting and singer casting, commercial casting directors are looking for like lifestyle, real, everyday people majority of the time.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_04: So it goes back to what we were saying earlier, where in the room, when I pick up your headshot and I want to ask you a question, I should be able to find you and identify you.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_04: But if I pick it up and I'm like, Suzy, and then you raise your hand and I'm like, This is you?
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_04: Like, and I get it.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_04: We change our look, we change our hairstyle, we do this, we do that, but like you've gotta, you gotta update it.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I guess so a question to answer would be Does your seven-year-old need a glamour shot as her headshot?
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_00: Does she need to have the flipper and the eyelashes and the big hair?
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_00: Is that necessary?
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_04: For me, I would say no.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_04: I want to see everyday Susie, not glamour shot Susie.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: Not airbrush Susie.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_04: Not airbrush Susie.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_04: And you can always do what you need to do with the role.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_04: So, like this person may be cast for this show or for this movie or for this whatever.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_04: And like the role is gonna turn into what the role is and the character of what that is.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_04: We need to see like what you actually look like and what are we working with, and like who are you?
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_04: Like again, the takeaway is I need to identify and contact this person, not she came dressed as Wednesday Adams and she's ready to do the Netflix show.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like, that's not what it's about.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that that's interesting to say too, because we do get that.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think that like a lot of people that enter into photogenic, it's it is either a glamour shot or it's like they have their full beat competition makeup on and then they took a photo shoot.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it's also it's like actually the dancers that submit for that who have just a more of a natural look, who don't have, you know, even I will say, like, it's actually a little bit weird normally, outside bes besides when you're on stage, to have a full beat of makeup on for a nine-year-old.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like a nine-year-old's not walking around in in the daytime with like fake eyelashes on and red lipstick.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_01: So why would why does she need that in the photo?
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_04: And if that same performer is gonna be cast for like a catalog or a print campaign, it's not gonna be that in intense anyway.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_04: They want they want them to look their age and within, you know, the the parameters of what they're casting for.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_04: It's lifestyle.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting too, even with that, like from the approach of like the children having full makeup on.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like every time I've ever gotten headshots done as a professional, you go through different makeup throughout the headshot shoot, and they always want different versions of you.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: So they want like the all-natural version of you that looks like, you know, the the girl next door and yeah, the fresh face.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then we can amp it up a little bit with a little bit more of a smoky eye, and maybe we add an eyelash and maybe have a little bit more of a pop of the lip.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_01: But like I actually have a different my headshot makeup is very different than what I wear in the room at the audition.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's important to remember because there have been I always wear a red lip.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like when I'm on stage at when I'm teaching and when I'm at an audition, I usually have a red lip on.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_01: It just makes me pop, it just works in the room.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: But my headshot doesn't have that.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and and that's like such a dramatic choice for a headshot, is like a bright red lip because it puts you into a specific category.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: And like if you are auditioning for something like again, depending, if I'm going in for something like I'm a teenager, probably not gonna put my red lip on.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because I want to portray myself as younger across the board.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_04: But if you're going in for a cruise ship or, you know, Chicago.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_04: Chicago, and then you look more mature and then you can you can always add, but it's hard to take away.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_04: And if you're gonna spend money on photos, and again, this is putting your your package together to market yourself.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_04: If you're putting all this makeup on and all these extra things, you're not gonna be as marketable for all the the other opportunities that are out there.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_04: Or they can see you in the room and be like, oh, look at her.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_04: She's got her fishnets on and her red lip and she's she's dressed for the part, but your your headshot still identifies you who you are.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_04: Without giving too much away.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_04: And there that this could lead us into a moment too where like in different markets, these are different things.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_04: Where like in LA, you're gonna have a very different commercial headshot than you would here in New York City.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_04: And it's more of the not the commercial, like commercial and print and like advertising realm.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_04: I'm talking commercial dance.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_04: Where like you're here in New York, the classic headshot works best.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_04: Like a tank top for female identifying performers, or a solid color shirt, you know, men, again, a tank top, or if you if you've got the body and you want to go shirtless, that's great.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_04: Or a classic t-shirt, etc.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_04: But like the very stylized commercial headshot from LA is very much a thing over there, and that's what all the performers have.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_04: And they're going out for artist tours, you know, Ariana Grande and Lizzo and JLo and all the things like that, it's a completely different market.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_04: And so just knowing which headshot, but like I said, I've repeated multiple times, the classic headshot is gonna work in every market around the world.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_04: You're gonna use it the most that is your staple.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_04: So invest in that one.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_04: And if you want to do the the commercial dance headshot, if you want to do action shots, if you want to do other things, you can add to it, but I would say invest the most in the classic shot.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_00: How do you feel about this is a trendy thing that has kind of come and gone, and I don't know if it's still current, about putting a different picture of yourself on your resume.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to ask that question.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you mean like I would all like on the actual resume part as a tiny like, you know, a little snippet.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_04: I would say there's no right or wrong answer.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_04: I personally like it because it stops me from flipping things over back and forth.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_04: I'm sure Courtney, you've seen me do this multiple times at the table.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_04: Somebody will be dancing and I will flip their picture around to look at them and be like, Is this the same person?
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_03: Is it you?
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes it's just for my my own brain, but other times I'm like, wait a second.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_04: Like, this is uh a whole other Person up here and I just need to mentally make note.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_04: Cool.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_04: I like the little photo on the back just so that while you're performing and I'm scanning your resume, I can make that connection.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it the same photo on front and back?
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_04: I think it should be in the same vibe.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't if it's not the exact same photo, that's okay.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_04: But it should, again, it shouldn't be like the stylized commercial shot on the back, because you know, now we're here in like a musical theater audition and I'm like, well, what's happening?
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_04: So I think just like the same vibe.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_04: It can maybe be when in doubt, just do the same photo.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_04: It really doesn't matter.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_04: I personally just like a little square just so I can make the connection.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_04: Or for some reason you did bobby pin your headshot and resume together and they got separated, at least I know who you are.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_04: And again, in different markets, like in the UK and in Europe and in different places over there, uh, they typically have multiple pages stapled and the pick the headshot is sort of like on the resume.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's totally different.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_04: So in a weird way, that kind of keeps it consistent with having a little photo on the resume.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_04: For me, it's helpful.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_04: Other casting directors may absolutely have their opinions, and you may take a course or professor may tell you no, but for me, I like it.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_04: I like it.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_01: So interesting.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_01: I love hearing all of this, and I just kind of want to reiterate something that you mentioned earlier, Sean, that I think would be really helpful for all of our listeners that are taking all of this information in.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it kind of goes back to how I how we started this.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_01: And and my story of how I learned how to write my resume was by my agency.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then Sean, you recommended go to the age go to the dance agencies' websites and look at what their headshots look like.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_01: Look at what their resumes are.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because majority of the dance agencies out there, and I we can name drop a few a few block MSA, Clear Talent Group, go to Talent Agency.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, there's a bunch of them, all you know, on the East Coast and West Coast.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_01: But if you go to one of their websites, most websites have a roster of their clients and they have a digital profile of the dancers that they represent.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can click on their name and look at their headshot.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_01: You can click and actually open up their resume and look at the format.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you will know immediately if this resume was approved on an agency's website, that means this is the format that they want.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you know I think that's a good way to look at it.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because you could type into Google Dance resume and who knows who knows what you're gonna get.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_01: Good luck.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_01: But at least if you do the research in that way, where you go to the agency first and see what the agencies have approved, then you know that these are legitimate because they wouldn't rep them if they weren't.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_04: 100%.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_04: And the common theme you'll see between all those major dance agencies that you just listed is that the formatting is very similar.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_04: You know, the agency's branding is up there, the name of the talent is nice and large, the contact information and attributes are right there.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_04: The there's a lot of white space, there's a lot of breathing room.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_04: Even for people that have booked a million jobs, you may look at a very well-known dancer, and there's only like six things listed because guess what?
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_04: That's all they need to list.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_04: They don't need to list the other 500 things that they've done because that their agent is curating every time they're pitched for things, they're curating what what is there.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_04: And that's that's really in more of like a top booker realm because the agents don't have time to do this for every client that's happening, but they're curating it because they're pitching them to be direct booked for this movie.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_04: And so, yeah, you'll see a lot, lots of white space.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_04: I've seen some things, we've seen some crazy things behind the casting table.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_04: I think a couple months ago I saw a resume that was printed on like printer paper, all black with white type.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_03: What?
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_04: And I just immediately said I just immediately said thoughts and prayers for your HP printer at home because I just there is no that does not set you apart.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_04: That does not make you more marketable.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_04: That was a lot of I mean, I could feel the ink.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_04: And also, who wants to read white type on black paper?
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_04: Like that's crazy.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was I I've at least you they could have just at least bought black paper.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_04: But why also I know it's well just unclear.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_04: It's like a lot of times you see all these borders and columns and different colors and this and that.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's like all the Canva temp Canva templates.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't need all that.
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_04: Especially it it actually just makes it harder when we the dancers in front of me may be going in groups of two, they may be going in groups of ten.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_04: And so I need to be able to scan and make notes and again, I want to find you, I want to hire you.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_04: And if you're if if your your resume and your package isn't together, then then it's just making it that much harder for everybody else.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_00: When thinking about a headshot, do you want a name on the actual creator?
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Great question.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_00: I would say in service of being easier to find.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_04: Just at the bottom, you know, centered however you want, pick your font, make it clear.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_01: It needs to be.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_04: Add a border, make just make it make it clean and clear and easy to like read.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't need to be designed, it needs to just be classic and because some people depending on like how they run the audition, some people hold your headshot in front and then they expect for the name to be there with the headshot when they're calling you out instead of holding it by resume face up and reading the name that way.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's different with how they approach it in the room, so it's important to have your name on the bottom, you know, big bold letters at the bottom of your headshot.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, another question.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Good question.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Horizontal or vertical headshots.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_04: Again, it's personal preference.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_04: I don't I don't think there's a right or wrong answer.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_04: I would for me personally, I like the portrait style vertical because then it's just already lined up with your resume.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I do a lot of flipping back and forth and it just keeps it easy.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_04: Like you don't you don't win or lose because it's it's horizontal.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's all about the shot, but I personally I just prefer portrait.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_01: I do too, and I've gotten to I've been in situations where the photographer shot me horizontally, and then the photo you can obviously crop it to become vertical, but it doesn't look as good.
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was intentionally shot that way.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then now I have to print my headshot because this is the of course that's the shot that I like.
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, you know, now I'm printing it, and now I'm that jerk that's coming with the horizontal, and they then you have to flip it, and it's just confusing.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_01: I I I have never liked that as like being the person presenting that.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like the jerk in the room, to be quite honest.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, I think that's also important for the headshot photographer to know, like, yo, I hope to have a vertical headshot out of this shoot.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_01: So can we shoot it like that?
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Or that's the goal, or make sure I can crop it so it actually looks good in that setting.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's so many things.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think we could go on and on and on about this.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even just digging deeper into you know what what to wear for your headshot shoot and the different looks of a commercial versus a theatrical look for your headshots.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have different types of hair, like for men, they do uh headshots where they are clean shaven and then they have they do a headshot with their beard if they can grow a beard.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, same with uh female dancers if they have uh curly hair like me, but then you also wear it straight.
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_01: And if you want to have those two looks, like it just depends on you know how many ways you want to portray yourself in the industry and if you can, you know, if you're able to have different looks.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like my recent headshots, I did a hair down and I did a hair and a ponytail.
• 1:13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Two different looks with my bangs just to showcase, you know, and I can use which one I want depending on what I'm going in for as an auditioner.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, there's so many types of performers and all different types of work, and and you want to make yourself marketable for that.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_04: We would have a lot of clients where they change their hair a lot.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes they have box braids in, sometimes they have, you know, different uh hairstyles, and you you want to be able to show both and sort of present the hair for the audition that you're going in for.
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_04: And we as a casting team or as agents or as choreographers can know like that again, it's it's able to ask questions.
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_04: Are you willing to change your hair?
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_04: Are you willing to do this?
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_04: I see that I see that you presented, you know, your hair is really short and curly in this, but or in in person, but I see your headshot has braids.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_04: So that is a conversation of are you willing to do this for this job?
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_04: And a lot of times people will put on their resume like willing, open to changing my hair.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's on my resume and it's happened on so many of my jobs.
• 1:14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Practically all of the jobs I look back on, they've changed my hair.
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think actually everybody go listen to the episode that I was on, and Leslie, you were on the same podcast, uh, Jam with Joe and Michelle Dance Podcast.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I talked about a few of my different hair changes that I had to do in my professional career with West Side Story on tour as well as the Ver and Flossey uh show.
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, drastic hair changes.
• 1:14:45
  SPEAKER_01: And was I willing?
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, was I nervous?
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I put it on my resume.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_01: So again, you have to be willing.
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_01: If it's in your special skills, you gotta be okay with it.
• 1:14:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_04: I uh did a seminar a couple months ago, and this guy had really long, like awesome hair.
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_04: And he was asking, you know, he was like, Do you think that I need to get headshots done with me with different hair, like cut or this or that?
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I said, honestly, no, because I think it's a conversation piece and you have great hair.
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_04: And I would say like that could be super marketable for you for like TV and film or a certain theater piece, but also let them know that you're willing to cut your hair because you're already you're already offering it up to the casting director or the production team, like, yes, you have this long, long hair, but like you're also willing to go and do like a 1940s, 50s cut for like Miss Mazel.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_04: And if you're if you're already letting us know that you're willing to do that, then great.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_04: We don't have to have we will still have the conversation later, but you're already in the yes pile because you're willing to do it.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_00: And Miss Mazel gave you a free haircut if you needed your hair.
• 1:15:48
  SPEAKER_00: So R.I.P.
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_00: that show.
• 1:15:50
  SPEAKER_04: I know it's the final season.
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_04: Well, yeah.
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_04: What else?
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_01: What what have we I mean we're at the we're at the mark.
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is there an it?
• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we could talk about those for hours.
• 1:16:01
  SPEAKER_01: We could talk about it all night long.
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's just so much to cover, like I said.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_01: I knew we would need we'll eventually need to break this into even deeper conversations specific to resume.
• 1:16:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I really feel like we've we achieved so much in this discussion.
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is even more than a teaser.
• 1:16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's a it's almost an entree, you know.
• 1:16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's there's more to be had and more to be talked about for sure.
• 1:16:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I definitely think for the uninitiated, I think this is a very good starting point for understanding what is expected from each of these things, which again go hand in hand almost 99% of the time.
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Are there any things that we miss, Sean, that you're dying to tell us?
• 1:16:38
  SPEAKER_04: I think something, a new trend I would stress is putting your Instagram on your resume, if it fits in line with like you have a a dance Instagram or a professional performer Instagram, because the amount of times I'm YouTubing people, I'm Instagramming people, I'm looking for additional footage.
• 1:16:57
  SPEAKER_04: And if you already, if you're already giving me the link to go right there, like here's my YouTube channel, here's my Instagram handle, and there's things that are related to the business on there, I think that's just it's saving me a step from Googling you like crazy.
• 1:17:10
  SPEAKER_01: And like, sad to say it, but if you have a lot of followers, put that on there too.
• 1:17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it really and same with TikTok, like if you are a if you're a TikTok famous, like it's kind of like whoa, oh my god, they have 300,000 followers on TikTok.
• 1:17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, it's it's sad that that's what the world we're living in, but like it's an immediate like, whoa, I wanna I wanna go check out their profile to see why they have 300,000 followers.
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it might you never know what that could lead you to.
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, you know, your social media, which we actually are having a an episode later this season on how to brand yourself as a dancer, which I heavily think will be talking about social media, but your Instagram is your business card these days.
• 1:17:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it needs to represent you.
• 1:17:54
  SPEAKER_01: And if and especially if you're gonna put it on your resume, if you are comfortable putting it on your resume, please know that that casting rector most likely will type your Instagram handle in and go look at your your Instagram feed.
• 1:18:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you want it to reflect you as a dancer and not you like partying all night and uh you know, live in, you know what I mean.
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like you want it to you want it to have Yeah, be relevant to the thing.
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Have a have your have a personal account and then have your related account to whatever you do, business account, whatever.
• 1:18:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it I do think it is important to have at this point.
• 1:18:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I've been dreading it.
• 1:18:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I don't want to put my Instagram on my resume, but I think we have to put our Instagram on a resume.
• 1:18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Or if a website, if you have a website.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yep, website, YouTube channel, Instagram, TikTok.
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_04: And and like you said, if I go to your TikTok or your Instagram, I should be able to right away see dance footage, see uh a a dance shot of you.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_04: I should be able to like within the first three rows get to know you a little bit more of why I came here rather than just seeing you and your pets and like your vacation you took, which I'm sure is lovely, but I'm yeah, that is not why I'm that's not why I'm coming to your page.
• 1:18:59
  SPEAKER_04: That's not why I'm coming to your page.
• 1:19:01
  SPEAKER_04: So uh yeah, keep it keep it helpful for for casting and all the other things.
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Sean, this was such a great chat, and I'm so glad I finally convinced you, and I knew this was the perfect episode to have you because you just have so much knowledge on this topic, and you couldn't have been a better guest.
• 1:19:17
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for spending your evening with us after a long day of casting all day long.
• 1:19:22
  SPEAKER_01: We're very grateful for you to squeeze us in and love having you.
• 1:19:25
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're gonna have to have you back on another one.
• 1:19:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, this was amazing.
• 1:19:28
  SPEAKER_04: I'm again, I'm so happy I finally got to sit down and have this chat with you all and look forward to coming back at another time.
• 1:19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how we always have our guests lead us out is with a final thought on the topic.
• 1:19:39
  SPEAKER_01: So any final thoughts you want to share about headshots and resumes coming from a current casting director.
• 1:19:45
  SPEAKER_04: I think I just want to stress like your headshot and resume is a call-in card to find you pre-post and during audition.
• 1:19:53
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, it doesn't have to be flooded with information.
• 1:19:56
  SPEAKER_04: It just needs to get the get the conversation started and be a a leave behind so that we can reach out with more information.
• 1:20:05
  SPEAKER_04: I would say overall, it doesn't have to cost a lot of money and take a huge amount of time and energy and effort and money to produce a quality headshot and resume.
• 1:20:15
  SPEAKER_01: We hope you enjoyed this week's episode all about headshots and resumes.
• 1:20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Be sure to follow our special guest on social media.
• 1:20:22
  SPEAKER_01: You can find John on Instagram at John K News Day.
• 1:20:27
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• 1:20:41
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• 1:20:56
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• 1:21:00
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• 1:21:04
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• 1:21:17
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• 1:21:34
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• 1:21:41
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• 1:21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening to this episode of Making the Impact.
• 1:21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Stay tuned for the next few episodes coming up, including our next spotlight feature, keeping dance physically safe, and transitions.
• 1:21:54
  SPEAKER_01: We hope you're enjoying season four of Making the Impact.
• 1:21:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for tuning in week after week.
• 1:21:59
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you next week.
• 1:22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Until then, keep dancing.