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Torture Gone Askew | Anne Askew · Beheaded

0:04
SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
0:06
SPEAKER_00: This is season three, episode 11.
0:08
SPEAKER_02: I'm Megan Moore.
0:09
SPEAKER_02: And I'm Elizabeth Black.
0:11
SPEAKER_02: We are almost at the end of season three.
0:13
SPEAKER_02: Whoa.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: Blows my mind.
0:15
SPEAKER_01: We only have two more episodes.
0:17
SPEAKER_01: Three if you count part one and two of our final episodes.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of our tradition.
0:22
SPEAKER_01: It is.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: So milk it while you got it, people.
0:25
SPEAKER_02: We've got a good one for the finale.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: I know.
0:28
SPEAKER_02: Not gonna say who.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, well, we're going into a right away.
0:32
SPEAKER_02: Putting a little sprinkle of a teaser.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: We actually accidentally said this on a different podcast earlier this season.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: Whoa.
0:40
SPEAKER_01: Did we?
0:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: I won't tell you what because or how because then it'll give it away, but we'd we'd mentioned it like, oh, we're gonna do this one later, and blah blah, and we haven't yet.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: We're saving this person, particular person for the end of the season, not end, towards the end of the season.
0:56
SPEAKER_02: Oh, the one we're doing right now.
0:58
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
0:58
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I thought you meant our season finale.
1:01
SPEAKER_02: Oh no, we haven't hinted at that yet.
1:02
SPEAKER_02: Okay, good.
1:03
SPEAKER_02: That's gonna be dope.
1:04
SPEAKER_02: It is gonna be dope.
1:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we gotta wait.
1:07
SPEAKER_02: We will be ending with perfect timing to my departure.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: It's true.
1:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm a little bit sad because Megan is gonna be gone for not that long.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: Oh god, no, it's a month.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: A month is it's long for me.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: But that's fine.
1:23
SPEAKER_02: For our separation.
1:24
SPEAKER_02: But separation can be good.
1:27
SPEAKER_01: She's like, after the season, sing of you.
1:29
SPEAKER_02: It'll be the night of the last episode.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: I know, I know.
1:34
SPEAKER_01: So we'll be able to get everything done before you leave, but you leave in literally a month from now.
1:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've hinted it, not hinted, I've shared.
1:41
SPEAKER_02: We kind of talked about it on the show.
1:43
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: Not in grave detail, so I feel like this now that we're close, I think you need to fill the people into what your plans are for your big trip.
1:51
SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited.
1:53
SPEAKER_02: So, as some of you might know, I really like British history just a little bit.
1:57
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I don't think she's mentioned it ever.
1:59
SPEAKER_02: I've never been to England.
2:01
SPEAKER_02: I've been to Ireland.
2:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:03
SPEAKER_02: Never made it to England.
2:04
SPEAKER_02: Right.
2:04
SPEAKER_02: So, Jake, my husband, and I are leaving for a month on May 11th.
2:10
SPEAKER_02: We'll be going to London and we'll be spending about a week in London, which is perfect timing because this is all very pre-planned and very intentional.
2:19
SPEAKER_02: But we will be there on May 19th.
2:22
SPEAKER_02: So I'll be at the Tower of London on May 19th, which is of course the anniversary of Anne Boleyn's execution.
2:28
SPEAKER_02: And actually, just today I reserved um, which I'm so glad I thought of this.
2:33
SPEAKER_02: I bought the membership pass so I can just go to the Tower of London and Hampton Court Palace as much as I want.
2:38
SPEAKER_02: Right.
2:38
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I didn't even think that I need to actually reserve the date that I'm there.
2:42
SPEAKER_02: And thank goodness it wasn't actually.
2:44
SPEAKER_02: I thought it would might be full on the 19th, but it wasn't.
2:46
SPEAKER_01: That's shocking.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: It's not full yet.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but but it's like Disneyland.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: So you have the pass, but that doesn't mean you can just waltz in.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:53
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
2:53
SPEAKER_02: Maybe we can.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: I we gotta ask Stephanie, our chick who our chick.
2:57
SPEAKER_02: Our chick.
2:58
SPEAKER_02: My girl.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: Stephanie's a little more elevated than that.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: Stephanie's probably listening this to like time more than just a choose me.
3:05
SPEAKER_02: We will ask our friend and scholar, Stephanie.
3:09
SPEAKER_02: Our prestigious knowing all Stephanie, who uh used to work at the Tower of London.
3:15
SPEAKER_02: Or at Historic World Palaces, I mean.
3:17
SPEAKER_02: Right.
3:18
SPEAKER_02: At the Iptic Corps Palace.
3:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: Um, anyways, I got that booked.
3:22
SPEAKER_02: This is the best part.
3:24
SPEAKER_02: Wait, yes, wait for this.
3:25
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
3:27
SPEAKER_02: So we are gonna be at Tower of London on May 19th.
3:31
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
3:32
SPEAKER_02: And then we are driving to a place called Thornbury Castle.
3:36
SPEAKER_02: So let me tell you the story.
3:38
SPEAKER_02: Jake and I were about a bottle of wine deep.
3:43
SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
3:44
SPEAKER_02: And we were planning this trip and we knew it was gonna be a big trip.
3:48
SPEAKER_02: And we're like, you know, it's uh, you know, we've been kind of shut down in the pandemic.
3:52
SPEAKER_02: We've put this off for so many years.
3:54
SPEAKER_02: So we've had some time to save, which is I'm very grateful for.
3:56
SPEAKER_02: But so we we're kind of just like, let's just go big or go home.
4:00
SPEAKER_02: You have to, yeah.
4:00
SPEAKER_02: Literally go home if we're not gonna make it.
4:02
SPEAKER_02: And uh spend every last dollar you can come up with.
4:05
SPEAKER_02: The wine is important because I was I've talked a lot about Thornberry Castle to Jake.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: Right.
4:11
SPEAKER_02: Because Susanna Lipscomb has a really good part about it, which is the first place where I heard it on her documentary about um, I think it's called Henry and Anne.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: Something the lovers.
4:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:23
SPEAKER_02: I forget.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: I know we've referenced it before on this show.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: It's a really good documentary, anyways.
4:27
SPEAKER_02: They go to Thornberry Castle, which is kind of like a holiday spot for Henry the Eighth and Anne Boleyn.
4:33
SPEAKER_02: And they have the actual suite, the actual room that they stayed in that Henry and Anne slept in.
4:40
SPEAKER_02: And they call it the King Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn room.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: That's wild.
4:44
SPEAKER_02: So hence comes the wine, and I'm you know talking it up to Jake.
4:48
SPEAKER_02: It's about like 9:30, 10 o'clock at night, and Jake's this was back in August, so we've had this for a while.
4:54
SPEAKER_02: And Jake just goes, like, F it, like, let's just book it.
4:58
SPEAKER_02: You have to.
4:59
SPEAKER_02: And miraculously, I think because it was so far in advance, it was available those nights.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: Oh, so you're getting the actual suite.
5:07
SPEAKER_02: So we are gonna sleep in the actual suite on May 19th, May 20th, and then we're leaving the 21st.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: You should do like more than just photos, like you need to do like a video walkthrough of everything.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I thought you meant maybe like a seance, and I I I'm hoping just like possess me.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: Well, if Anne knows you're present for her, you know, execution date at the execution site.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: I can bring her over.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: And then, yeah, she knows that you're gonna be in Thornberry.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: I think she's just gonna travel with you.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: So, yes.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: Maybe bring some sort of like um what do they call it?
5:39
SPEAKER_01: Like a talisman to like token of sorts.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like to harness her energy and bring her spirit with you.
5:45
SPEAKER_01: Get like a little bee necklace that she lives in with you.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: I'll get one from the gift shop at Heaver Palace.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I think she would love to live in that.
5:53
SPEAKER_02: And then I'm gonna come back and I'm just gonna slowly start talking like her.
5:57
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
5:57
SPEAKER_02: And I'll just be like, the time has come, Elizabeth.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but then you'd be like, you remind me.
6:03
SPEAKER_02: Let them grumble.
6:04
SPEAKER_02: Let them grumble.
6:05
SPEAKER_02: That's how it's gonna be.
6:06
SPEAKER_02: Anyways, jokes aside, I'm so excited for that.
6:10
SPEAKER_02: And it it gets better.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: So then we are traveling to the Cotswolds, which is the countryside of England, and we have an Airbnb, the cutest little cottage.
6:20
SPEAKER_02: It looks like it's from the holiday.
6:22
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love it.
6:22
SPEAKER_02: And if you're wondering, how am I doing this with work?
6:25
SPEAKER_02: I again nobody cares about this.
6:27
SPEAKER_02: Nobody think about it.
6:28
SPEAKER_02: How is she working?
6:29
SPEAKER_02: I do work full-time, so I'm taking off basically like a week and then some, and then I'm working out of the Airbnb and then and you'll be on like American hours.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that'll be a little hard.
6:40
SPEAKER_01: It'll be interesting.
6:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:42
SPEAKER_02: And then our last leg of the trip, we're doing five days, four days, four days, five days in Paris.
6:47
SPEAKER_02: In Paris, which I've never done.
6:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:50
SPEAKER_02: I've never been.
6:51
SPEAKER_02: So I'm open to suggestions.
6:52
SPEAKER_02: Please reach out because we have quite an itinerary, but Paris, especially.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: Like you've been.
6:59
SPEAKER_02: I've been.
6:59
SPEAKER_02: And you've given me some advice.
7:00
SPEAKER_02: Like we're going to um the one restaurant you recommended.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: Les Procoupes, which is like the oldest cafe in Paris.
7:06
SPEAKER_01: Love it.
7:06
SPEAKER_01: And you're going to Versailles, you said.
7:08
SPEAKER_02: We're doing the Oh, that's the other thing I booked today was the catacombs.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I have not done that.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: And that's very cool.
7:15
SPEAKER_02: That's the first night we get in.
7:17
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna do the catacombs.
7:18
SPEAKER_02: Very spooky.
7:19
SPEAKER_02: Is Jay gonna like that?
7:20
SPEAKER_02: I will make him like that.
7:21
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: I told him what it was.
7:23
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
7:23
SPEAKER_02: We're also doing the Jack the Ripper tour because surprise.
7:29
SPEAKER_01: But I don't know.
7:30
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure he's fine with it.
7:31
SPEAKER_02: Um if you're wondering why he would not be okay with this.
7:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, so so I shockingly I I like dark things, I like ghosts, and I like executions and torture and death and prison cells.
7:47
SPEAKER_02: All the reasons we started this podcast.
7:49
SPEAKER_02: And bones, and Jake is the complete opposite.
7:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he doesn't like scary dark things, he won't watch horror movies, he doesn't like e BGB, creepy, yeah, in the night, in the dark of the night type of stuff.
8:02
SPEAKER_02: So I have to talk him into some of it.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: But you just again, I think if you point out the historical significance of these things to Jake, he'll like understand it and be like, oh, oh yeah, I think that's nice.
8:12
SPEAKER_01: And it's a nice little like two-kilometer walk.
8:16
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's easy.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, that's really short, right?
8:19
SPEAKER_01: Actually, don't know.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: 2K, because like a 5k is like three miles.
8:22
SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah, it's like a mile and a half.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, it's nothing.
8:25
SPEAKER_02: So we get a nice little walk in the catacombs.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: That's nice.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: Anyways, yeah.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: Um Megan disclosed to me too, she was like, I had a scary dream, and I was like, oh my gosh, what was it about?
8:35
SPEAKER_01: She was like, I dreamt that I might like France more than I like England.
8:39
SPEAKER_01: I'm scared.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh my gosh.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: I was like, first of all, that's likely.
8:44
SPEAKER_01: Not that, and again, I because you are who you are, I think you'll really love London, and obviously, all the history, you're gonna be obsessed with it.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: But there's something about Paris, and like there's a reason why people are Francophiles.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: There's something very cute about it.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I haven't been in some time, so I can't really compare at this point in my life, but but just say, I'm just open your mind.
9:05
SPEAKER_02: Maybe you like Paris a lot.
9:06
SPEAKER_02: I might, the aesthetics of it, I'm sure.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: But like food, oh, you can't not love the food.
9:11
SPEAKER_02: Jake is the best guy ever, and he very much has like allowed me to center this entire trip around like my purpose of Around Anne Boleyn?
9:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, around it's literally an Anne Boleyn trip.
9:22
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, we're doing Heaver, Hampton, all of the stuff.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: And she loves our trips.
9:26
SPEAKER_02: We're also doing um High Claire Castle, which is where they filmed out in Abbey.
9:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:30
SPEAKER_02: We're doing the Warner Brothers Harry Potter Studio tour.
9:33
SPEAKER_02: So like it's basically everything that makes Megan Megan is what we're doing.
9:38
SPEAKER_02: And who knows, I may not come back.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: You might not.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: You might be just so engrossed with it.
9:43
SPEAKER_01: And these are all parts of your soul that speak to you very strongly.
9:46
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: I mean I'm not saying obviously I'm gonna miss you and I would love you to come back, but like if I got a postcard that was like, I'm staying.
9:54
SPEAKER_01: I'd have to be a big thing.
9:54
SPEAKER_02: The time has come, I Megan Moore, I'd be like, I get it.
9:58
SPEAKER_02: I get it.
9:58
SPEAKER_02: The only thing is my dog.
10:00
SPEAKER_02: My mom's watching my dog for the penny too, yeah.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: Penny can come out.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: She can go in a little FedEx box and poke some holes.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: Pokes in the box, she'll be fine.
10:10
SPEAKER_02: Oh, anyway.
10:11
SPEAKER_02: That's exciting.
10:12
SPEAKER_02: So that's what I've been up to.
10:13
SPEAKER_02: What have you been up to?
10:15
SPEAKER_01: Not Europe.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, but no, I did have a really good work trip this last weekend to Santa Barbara, California, which I've never been to, but it's like a cute little wine country place in Southern California.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: Um planning this trip for like a year, so it was nice to just like get it done.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: It was like an incentive trip we've been planning.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: That's your job, is to plan the trips.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, so this was a nice one.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: It was the first time all of us have really been around each other since like 2020.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, so everyone was very appreciative.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: The wine was great, the events were great, like great food.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, I feel like this is nothing in comparison to everything you've just said with your trip.
10:51
SPEAKER_02: Well, I haven't been yet.
10:52
SPEAKER_02: I know.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: But you know, it was a really good time.
10:55
SPEAKER_01: It was a nice little break for the weekend.
10:56
SPEAKER_02: Good.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, and like if you'd if you've never been to Santa Barbara, we were actually in a town right outside of it called Solvang, which is like a Danish-inspired town.
11:07
SPEAKER_01: Windmills.
11:07
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: So everything is like there's like the little mermaid replica statue, and yeah, like windmills, the giant red clog, like just all these things that are Danish icons, quote unquote.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, so the town itself is very charming and very like um small town.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: It's not like a not, you know, there's not nightlife or anything crazy that you go for it.
11:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, but we found this really cool, oh, we found this really cool bookshop.
11:29
SPEAKER_01: I almost bought you a little gift there, actually.
11:32
SPEAKER_01: But I don't want to tell you about it because I feel like I'm actually gonna get it for you for like an upcoming occasion.
11:37
SPEAKER_01: I can't.
11:37
SPEAKER_01: But it's so cool.
11:38
SPEAKER_01: But like, long story short, there was a what is it related to?
11:42
SPEAKER_01: Okay, there was a part of this bookshop that was all puzzles and games.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I don't like puzzles.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, this was a really you I can't tell you.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: I said puzzles, I said puzzles and games.
11:52
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
11:52
SPEAKER_01: I like games, but it was a very there were very specific games and things I've never seen before.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: I can't tell you.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: It's just gambling.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: It's just a thing.
12:01
SPEAKER_01: It's one of the things you mentioned in London that you enjoy.
12:04
SPEAKER_01: Heaver.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: I can't tell you.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: But I it was very original.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: I will just say there was, and I'm just gonna speak broadly.
12:11
SPEAKER_01: Now you're just saying words again.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: No, but just to like give you an idea of like everything that was in this gift shop, there were things around, and these are not things you said, but just how specific things were.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: There was like games around like Dungeons and Dragons and The Sopranos and Mad Men and like very specific, like culty things that people are obsessed with.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, there was Taylor Swift stuff there.
12:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like very specific things that people like.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I like that.
12:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I can't again go into detail because now it's gonna be a gift idea for you.
12:41
SPEAKER_01: But me and my boss were there for quite a while, just like looking, like picking up every game, and we're like, well my oh my god, like look at this one.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: And then literally, like we were freaking out, and then there were these two young children that like go in the shop too, and like, mom, dad, like Dungeons and Dragons, like DD, and they're just like going on.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: Is that still I guess so still?
13:00
SPEAKER_00: What kind of games?
13:01
SPEAKER_01: They were like uh they were honestly unique games.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: Like I there was a bunch of Lord, I love Lord of the Rings.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: There was at least like five different Lord of the Rings board games, really, but they were all very different.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: Like I looked at the back, I was like, I couldn't tell you how to play this game.
13:13
SPEAKER_02: What were the Taylor Swift games like?
13:16
SPEAKER_01: I didn't look, but I saw it.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: I gotta look this up.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: I know.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: Sopranos was like Monopoly, like you know, some were just variations of old games, but some were but some were specifically like new games that I do not know how you play.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: But it was very cute.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: Overall, my first experience there, really liked it.
13:32
SPEAKER_01: Highly recommend, would go back.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: Um great food.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah.
13:37
SPEAKER_01: What was your favorite food?
13:38
SPEAKER_01: I was just gonna say.
13:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, our second day there, we went to this breakfast spot called, well, I don't know, they have lunch and dinner, but we went for brunch.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: It was called Coast Range, and I had like biscuits and gravy there.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: And it was oh, I'm definitely gonna post a picture because it was so like my vibe.
13:55
SPEAKER_01: It's like you walk in and like every table was like this big like booth that had all these old cool like sailing pictures near them, and there was these buckets, like these gold buckets to chill your champagne at each booth.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: Ooh, that's right up your eyes.
14:09
SPEAKER_01: I know, and they had all these cool like brass bar carts around, and it was just like I walked in and I was like, I told my boss, I was like, this is this is me.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: And it was like they had this way too spicy, bloody Mary, which is also me.
14:22
SPEAKER_01: I was just like, this is great.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'll post a picture of that because that is like too good not to post.
14:27
SPEAKER_01: It's gorgeous.
14:27
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, cool.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: So overall, that was nice.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, so work's picking up in terms of travel.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, I have more travel stories to work soon.
14:35
SPEAKER_02: Look at us.
14:36
SPEAKER_02: I know.
14:36
SPEAKER_02: Getting out in the world, so worldly.
14:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah.
14:41
SPEAKER_02: So as we are getting to our final season, yes.
14:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, we were really thinking about who are people that we really wanted to do that we haven't done yet, because we tried to mix it up with like the big ones and the little ones and the no-name ones and the complicated ones.
14:59
SPEAKER_02: Funny enough, that freaking Brunhilde episode has like the most listens ever.
15:05
SPEAKER_02: Probably because people are like, What is this?
15:07
SPEAKER_02: They're like, What?
15:09
SPEAKER_02: And Megan has no idea what she's talking about through any of it.
15:13
SPEAKER_02: I don't know their names.
15:15
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't that bad.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: I again, I'm when I listened to it, I think I expected it to be far worse than that.
15:19
SPEAKER_01: Probably because I told you this, I don't even want to publish it.
15:22
SPEAKER_01: I think you had good editing, very good editing.
15:24
SPEAKER_01: Oh, good.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: Because it was a there was a couple parts I was like, ew, I don't know if that's true.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: But you don't listen to this to be historically accurate.
15:33
SPEAKER_01: You listen for part history, part funny, part, you know, just painting an interesting story.
15:38
SPEAKER_02: Full of historical inaccuracies.
15:40
SPEAKER_02: That's okay.
15:41
SPEAKER_02: No, we are accurate tonight.
15:42
SPEAKER_02: Do you want to introduce our lady of the night?
15:45
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: Our lady of the evening is Anne Askew.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: Which is a big deal.
15:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, she is uh a person who actually only lived to be 25.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: So very short little life.
15:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, but she existed during the King Henry VIII reign.
16:01
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
16:02
SPEAKER_01: Which, as we know, dangerous time to be alive.
16:06
SPEAKER_02: We actually did a pretty good job of our of our food appetizers.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: Megan nailed it today.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: I think because you got off work so much earlier today.
16:14
SPEAKER_01: So I my I usually like bring a few things by and we'll make it together.
16:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm normally super rushed.
16:19
SPEAKER_02: Like I may not finish work working till like six or so, but I got off on time at four o'clock.
16:23
SPEAKER_02: Wonderful.
16:24
SPEAKER_02: And uh I also had so much food in my fridge that I just did a big clean out.
16:30
SPEAKER_02: So I made uh chicken skewers for and ask you because I thought skew, ask you, skewer.
16:36
SPEAKER_02: I got it.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: As soon as you messaged me, she was like, What about skewers?
16:40
SPEAKER_01: And I knew it was because I was like, oh, ask you or skewers.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: Forget it.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: You had askewers.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: They were good.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: They were like chicken and peppers.
16:49
SPEAKER_02: I don't have a grill, so they weren't awesome.
16:52
SPEAKER_02: Um, anyways, though.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: Yes, so Anne ask you.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, so again, just to give you kind of an overview of who she was, she was essentially like a writer, poet, preacher, um, who again was condemned for heresy specifically during the King Henry VIII time.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, so she was born 1521 in Lincolnshire, Lincolnshire, um, to uh Sir William Askew and his wife Elizabeth Rotsesley, which I might be saying that wrong.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: Sounds right.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: But um William Askew was uh only knighted about like eight years before uh Anne was born.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: He was a wealthy landowner, and fun fact, he was also a juror at Anne Boleyn's trial.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: I love it when it all connects.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: Ties into each other.
17:39
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, they weren't a h necessarily a historically wealthy family, but in like his lifetime, he grew to be a very important person in King Henry VIII's court.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: So they were kind of a gentry class or a higherborn family at the time.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, so William Askew and Elizabeth, they had five children, and Anne Askew was the fourth of the five, and the other children were Francis, Edward, who were two males older who were off at Cambridge, and uh her sisters Martha and Jane, who were younger.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, so Martha actually was supposed to be betrothed to this person named Thomas Khyme, who was like a harsh Catholic in their town in Lincoln.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: And uh she actually died, Martha died when Anne was about 15.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: So Sir William, who, you know, had done a lot to kind of get this marriage between Martha and Thomas together, said, Well, we're not gonna waste a good wedding or a good dowry, you know, to save money.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: He just said, Well, do you want my daughter Anne?
18:38
SPEAKER_01: She's kind of next in line for marriage.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, so poor Anne at 15 had to basically agree to marry Thomas Kine.
18:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, so she was with Thomas, and again, at this point we know that he is Catholic, that he's um very specific on the way he lives he wants to live his life and kind of structure his family.
18:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, and we know from her being a very young wife that she is not looking to align with his beliefs necessarily.
19:04
SPEAKER_01: So she comes out as a very devout Protestant.
19:07
SPEAKER_01: She says, No, you know, I'm an educated woman.
19:10
SPEAKER_01: My like brothers are off at Cambridge, like we're a smart family, I know what my um values are.
19:15
SPEAKER_01: So even though her family was very conservative, I'm assuming Catholic, um, she came out and said, you know, I enjoy studying the Bible and I enjoy memorizing verses and living my life through the Bible and through scripture.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: So she was a good wife in that she had like two children, but she wasn't a great, like, she wasn't looking to kind of keep the marriage together long term.
19:37
SPEAKER_01: They were had a very turbulent marriage, they were fighting a lot over their beliefs, neither of them were really willing to budge on their beliefs.
19:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, there was no such thing as compromise.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: So eventually Thomas just threw her out of the house.
19:49
SPEAKER_01: Oh, Jesus.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like just she was destitute, just like, all right, you know what, you're too Protestant for me, you gotta go.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: And she didn't take her kids, she didn't like have any options, any money, she just left.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: And she didn't really know what to do at the time, but she knows she knew she wanted to get a divorce, and she knew she like had the right to get a divorce through scripture.
20:09
SPEAKER_01: She said, Well, according to my understanding of the Bible, like I have a right to be independent and I have a right to be my own person, I'm gonna go seek a divorce.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, which is ironic.
20:18
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what specifically she was citing from the Bible that led her to think that, but she said, I'm gonna go to London and I'm gonna make a new life for myself.
20:26
SPEAKER_02: So she goes to London, which is very bold of a woman in that era to just leave her husband and her two kids.
20:33
SPEAKER_01: Right.
20:33
SPEAKER_01: Her kids all also are never mentioned again by the way.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: We never hear about them, right?
20:37
SPEAKER_01: Don't even know if they were boys, girls, one of the priorities.
20:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:40
SPEAKER_02: She was young though, she was in her early 20s at this point.
20:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
20:45
SPEAKER_02: She goes to London, and let me give you just a quick background to of what London life is like right now.
20:50
SPEAKER_02: Right.
20:51
SPEAKER_02: So the year is 1545.
20:53
SPEAKER_02: King Henry VIII is married to his last wife, Catherine Parr.
20:58
SPEAKER_02: Right.
20:58
SPEAKER_02: And this is actually very close to his death.
21:00
SPEAKER_02: He to give you some context, Henry dies January 28th, 1547.
21:05
SPEAKER_02: Right.
21:06
SPEAKER_02: So he's at the last leg of his life here.
21:08
SPEAKER_02: So get it?
21:09
SPEAKER_02: Last leg.
21:10
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I see what you did there.
21:12
SPEAKER_02: He's grotesque, he's large, he's stinky, and he's got this rotting, infested leg with his wounds on it.
21:19
SPEAKER_02: So um, he's not zooming so hot.
21:22
SPEAKER_02: No.
21:22
SPEAKER_02: But the climate of London at this time is very confusing.
21:26
SPEAKER_02: And it's we've always gone back and forth.
21:30
SPEAKER_02: Henry's against the Catholics, Henry's Henry's Protestant, Henry is now supporting this, he's supporting that, it's wishy-washy.
21:38
SPEAKER_02: And if you're confused, most people were.
21:40
SPEAKER_02: And like even the people living in London at that time were probably confused as well.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: And imagine living in a time without communication like we have now.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: Like nowadays, any you know, prime minister, president, whatever can just tweet out like, hey, by the way, this is the new law, this is the new policy, or whatever.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: Like King Henry VIII, by the time you knew what side of the Fence he stood on with Catholicism or Protestantism, like he changed his mind.
22:03
SPEAKER_02: You're already outdated.
22:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:06
SPEAKER_02: So in the 1530s, he had separated from the church, um, from the Catholic Church and created the Church of England.
22:14
SPEAKER_02: What's interesting and what's really important, and something I don't think I've really put that much thought into, I guess, until tonight.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: That's okay.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: No, that's why we do this.
22:25
SPEAKER_02: I always just kind of thought then, okay, Henry's Protestant.
22:27
SPEAKER_02: If you're not Catholic, you're Protestant.
22:30
SPEAKER_02: He always really identified as Catholic.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like a lot of the documentaries we watched tonight kind of mention that in his heart, he was Catholic throughout all of this.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: Like, even when when they went through the Reformation and everything.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: And one interesting note that we came across was like, okay, the only real difference between like Henry's religion and strict cat Catholicism was that he did break from Rome, he did break from the Vatican to create the Church of England.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: So he wanted something that was created his own rules.
23:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, his own rules.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: But the only other thing that really separated him was the fact that he like um dissolved the monasteries and said, okay, we're not gonna have these around anymore, or like mitigated their importance.
23:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he still took communion.
23:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: He still believed and you know, did all the other things that Catholics do, and still had very powerful Catholics at his side, like within his, you know, privy council or you know, whatever advisory board he had, he just always kept these very prominent Catholics alongside of him.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: So he was always, I think, in his heart, Catholic, and that's why there was so much controversy around Catherine Parr, his wife at the time, because people thought this woman's trying to bring Protestantism again, just like that Anne Boleyn woman.
23:47
SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot of tension between the reformers and the traditionalists.
23:51
SPEAKER_02: The reformers are the ones who are trying to push towards Protestantism.
23:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: And they Am I saying that right also?
23:57
SPEAKER_02: I always I always throw around Protestantism, and I'm like, am I?
24:01
SPEAKER_02: Is that even?
24:01
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
24:02
SPEAKER_02: I'm saying it too.
24:02
SPEAKER_02: But they followed uh Martin Luther versus the traditionalists who were the Catholics.
24:07
SPEAKER_02: Right.
24:08
SPEAKER_02: At this time though, Henry really wanted to build this alliance with Emperor Charles V of Spain, who is of course Catholic.
24:15
SPEAKER_02: Right.
24:16
SPEAKER_02: Going back to Catherine of Arian, his aunt, let's not forget about that whole situation.
24:22
SPEAKER_02: Right.
24:22
SPEAKER_02: But Henry wants to reduce the reformation.
24:26
SPEAKER_02: He's saying no more reform.
24:27
SPEAKER_02: They are heretics.
24:29
SPEAKER_02: We need to be Catholic.
24:31
SPEAKER_02: Um, and like Elizabeth said, Queen Catherine Parr was pretty much on the line of being a Protestant.
24:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:39
SPEAKER_02: And so her inner circle and her ladies, her sister, her family.
24:43
SPEAKER_02: So kind of tense times.
24:45
SPEAKER_02: Going back to Anne Askew, though, so Anne Askew makes it to London.
24:49
SPEAKER_02: She's young, she's in her early 20s.
24:51
SPEAKER_02: Right.
24:52
SPEAKER_02: And she's a full-blooded Protestant.
24:54
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
24:55
SPEAKER_02: She is preaching.
24:57
SPEAKER_02: She's, I love this.
24:58
SPEAKER_02: She is distributing Bibles in English, which is a really big belief of Martin Luther, right?
25:03
SPEAKER_02: Is we don't need to just have the Bible in Latin and we can't just rely off of the sermons.
25:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:10
SPEAKER_02: But you should read it for yourself, interpret it for yourself, and actually get closer to God by not having to go through priests and cardinals and bishops.
25:19
SPEAKER_02: Right.
25:19
SPEAKER_02: So that is her belief.
25:20
SPEAKER_02: And she's going all around town preaching this quite loudly and quite boisterously and confidently.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: Right.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: She even goes by her maiden name again.
25:29
SPEAKER_01: So it it's like no a lot, not a lot of information of even if she went by Anne Kime, but she's going around saying, Hey, I'm Ann Ask You.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: Like she's not taking her husband's name or identifying with him at all.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was said that she even went to King Henry VIII to ask him for a formal divorce.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: Because at the time, the only person that could grant divorce was the king.
25:50
SPEAKER_02: The guy who knew how to do it.
25:51
SPEAKER_02: The guy on this.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: He's like, Oh, yeah, yeah, you come to me.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: However, of course, because it's not his specific marriage, Henry said no.
25:59
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
26:00
SPEAKER_02: Why would a woman want to get a divorce from his her wonderful man?
26:04
SPEAKER_02: Her husband, Thomas Khyme, is not happy with this.
26:08
SPEAKER_02: No.
26:08
SPEAKER_02: He gets her arrested for all of this heresy.
26:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:12
SPEAKER_02: Gets her dragged back to their hometown in Lincolnshire.
26:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:16
SPEAKER_02: And lo and behold, she escapes.
26:19
SPEAKER_02: I didn't read a lot.
26:20
SPEAKER_02: Like, I want to know physically how did she escape?
26:23
SPEAKER_02: Was it like she was?
26:24
SPEAKER_02: I think she just walked away.
26:25
SPEAKER_02: I think they brought her there, like, okay, you're gonna sit here and be a good girl now and not go to London and talk your big talk.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: Remember your two kids?
26:32
SPEAKER_02: No, thank you.
26:33
SPEAKER_01: And she walks away.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: In the middle of the night, she's like, I'm gonna go though.
26:37
SPEAKER_02: It's kind of like London.
26:39
SPEAKER_02: That's kind of where like the fun is and all the good stuff.
26:41
SPEAKER_02: She just, you know, she's got two feet, she can walk.
26:44
SPEAKER_02: She got off pretty easy.
26:45
SPEAKER_02: So they bring her back, she leaves, she goes back to London.
26:48
SPEAKER_02: She gets arrested again.
26:50
SPEAKER_02: Shoot March 10th, 1545.
26:53
SPEAKER_02: At this point, they're detaining her because she's violating what they called the Six Articles Act.
26:59
SPEAKER_02: Right.
26:59
SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna go into detail in the Six Articles.
27:01
SPEAKER_02: It's a little boring.
27:02
SPEAKER_02: A little you can go and look it up.
27:04
SPEAKER_02: But basically, it's like six reasons of what makes you a good, faithful person.
27:12
SPEAKER_02: Right.
27:12
SPEAKER_02: And in this list, it very much included like what they the term is transubstantiation.
27:20
SPEAKER_02: Right.
27:20
SPEAKER_02: Which is not just like believing in the um symbolism of it, but truly thinking that when a priest does communion, that the bread actually turns into the body of Christ and the and the wine actually turns into the blood of Christ.
27:36
SPEAKER_02: Right.
27:36
SPEAKER_02: Not just like not as a symbol.
27:38
SPEAKER_02: Not as a symbol, but you're like, I'm actually drinking Jesus' blood now.
27:42
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
27:42
SPEAKER_02: That's just one part of the six.
27:44
SPEAKER_02: Amongst others, is like taking confession, like very Catholic practices.
27:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like chastity, confession, yeah, believing in communion, all of that.
27:53
SPEAKER_02: Uh so she's arrested because she's speaking out against the six articles.
27:58
SPEAKER_02: She has a hearing, they called it a heresy hearing commission, also called a quest.
28:04
SPEAKER_02: And she was cross-examined by Edmund Bonner.
28:07
SPEAKER_02: She was examined for, she had two interrogations at this time, um, like within this period, but basically over the span of 12 days they kept her.
28:16
SPEAKER_02: And it was on the 12th day, her cousin, Brittany.
28:19
unknown: Brittany.
28:20
SPEAKER_01: It's Brittany, bitch.
28:22
SPEAKER_01: We both were like, do you notice that just cousin Britney came in?
28:26
SPEAKER_02: Britney pops in and she bails her out.
28:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:28
SPEAKER_02: You can always count on a cousin named Britney.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: The bitch is a ride or die.
28:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she's like, You're coming with me.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, so so Brittany comes, takes her away, and she's released for all of three months.
28:42
SPEAKER_01: Cool.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but and so um when Megan mentioned Rebel.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: I know.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: Rebel with the cause, this one.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, so when Megan mentioned the this last arrest, that was in March of 1546.
28:55
SPEAKER_01: So come May of the same year 1546, she's arrested again.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: And this time it is a bit more serious because this time they take her to dun dun dun the tower.
29:08
SPEAKER_01: The Tower of London.
29:09
SPEAKER_01: We know what happens.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: Where Megan has a membership card too that expires on March 31st, 2023.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: But she still needs reservations to confirm all of her visits.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: So she goes to the tower, and at this point the interrogation is going up a notch.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: They are saying, okay, we're not playing around anymore, and they take it all the way to torture, which just fun fact, you cannot torture a woman at this kind at this time.
29:36
SPEAKER_01: It's illegal.
29:37
SPEAKER_01: It's illegal.
29:37
SPEAKER_01: You cannot torture women, and you're not supposed to torture people that are high born either.
29:42
SPEAKER_01: So it's like you can do all your interrogations.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: We've seen this with you know other things in King Henry's life, but she's the first person who's just straight up put on the rack and tortured.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: And they ask her to not just like confess whatever, you know, sins they think she's um uh, you know, guilty of, but they also they ask her, what are the names of the people that are with you?
30:05
SPEAKER_01: What are the other Protestants who believe these things?
30:08
SPEAKER_01: And they're specifically trying to get some information on Queen Catherine Parr and Queen Catherine Parr's uh ladies in waiting.
30:16
SPEAKER_01: And her sister.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: And her sister Anne.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, so she's kind of going on saying, you know, no, like I'm not gonna give you names.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: She what she's doing too is she's speaking a lot in scripture.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, because again, she'd memorized so much of the Bible.
30:31
SPEAKER_01: She a lot of her responses were just very like direct and very just like, here's my answer.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: It's going to be just quoting the Bible.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, but they were really frustrated with her, which is why, again, they took it to the levels of torture.
30:44
SPEAKER_02: Re really quick, sorry to interject.
30:46
SPEAKER_02: Oh, no, go ahead.
30:46
SPEAKER_02: That's actually a really cool thought, too, because they even made it illegal for women to read.
30:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:52
SPEAKER_02: And that was the fun fact in the words of Elizabeth.
30:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:55
SPEAKER_02: I loved here, I didn't know this, but Catherine Parr actually put in like a like a whole, I don't know what you ever call it, but she basically like prohibited women from reading the Bible because she was really trying to butter up King Henry VIII.
31:10
SPEAKER_02: Of course.
31:10
SPEAKER_02: Of course, like there's a game.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: She's now the six wives, and she's seen what can happen.
31:15
SPEAKER_02: So she's really gotta butter him up and make him believe, like, oh yes, I'm so, you know, I'm so pure and pious.
31:22
SPEAKER_02: Right.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: Such a good voice.
31:24
SPEAKER_02: She prohibits women reading the Bible, but also started her own women's Bible reading group in secret.
31:31
SPEAKER_01: Like her and her ladies in waiting, like had Bible discussions where she would read the Bible out loud to these women and they would all talk about it.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: So they were starting their own Bible study, and I think that's why they were so harsh on Anne, because they're like, You must know something.
31:44
SPEAKER_02: That's what I was gonna get at, because so she's very literate, and she's not only read the Bible, but she's memorizing the Bible.
31:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's like her only power to get back at them as like told you so.
31:57
SPEAKER_02: Like, you may prohibit me from reading, but you can't stop me from memorizing what I've already read.
32:02
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
32:03
SPEAKER_02: And so she just spitting out at them the verses that she's memorized.
32:06
SPEAKER_02: Like, what a badass, right?
32:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, truly.
32:08
SPEAKER_02: I can't even quote like movies fully, let alone like the Bible.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: Still struggling with some Harry Potter quotes.
32:15
SPEAKER_02: I get them a little wrong sometimes.
32:16
SPEAKER_02: I'm almost ashamed of myself.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: That's okay.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: But uh, so she again throughout all of this is not giving up names, just keeps sticking to her guns, sticking to her beliefs.
32:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it gets to a point too where even the guy who's kind of in charge of the tower, um the lieutenant of the tower, he literally leaves in the middle of her torture and goes to the king, goes to King Henry VIII and says, Hey, we're torturing a woman in there, a highborn woman, and like I I don't feel right about it.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: Like, please, you know, I beg you for your forgiveness because this is, I know, illegal.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: And King Henry VIII's like, it's not a big deal.
32:51
SPEAKER_02: Women want to be equal, don't they?
32:53
SPEAKER_01: Right.
32:53
SPEAKER_01: We actually rewatched the tutor episode about Anne Askew, and in their rendition, King Henry VIII is like, well, you know, equality.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: We're like, oh, this is when you start equality when she's on the rack, and he's like, Okay, thanks, King Henry VIII.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: Good point.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, so so when he's gone, um, Sir Richard Rich and uh Lord Chancellor Thomas, I'm gonna say his last name wrong, uh, Worsley.
33:19
SPEAKER_01: Rhesley?
33:20
SPEAKER_01: Riddlesley.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: Rithesley.
33:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, they're the ones who literally, like these highborn men then take it into their own hands to continue to rack her while the lieutenant is talking to the king.
33:31
SPEAKER_02: This is a really big deal that they're racking her.
33:33
SPEAKER_02: That's disgusting.
33:34
SPEAKER_02: I actually have some details about like the specifics of just how eerie it was.
33:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:39
SPEAKER_02: Because you've got to like, she must have assumed she wasn't going to be tortured since it was illegal.
33:44
SPEAKER_02: Right.
33:44
SPEAKER_02: So it's about 10 a.m.
33:45
SPEAKER_02: They took her out from her cell.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: They take her to the lower room of the White Tower.
33:49
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
33:50
SPEAKER_02: And first they just show her the rack, and they're just like, Do you want to go on this?
33:54
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
33:54
SPEAKER_02: Don't think you want to go on this.
33:56
SPEAKER_02: They ask her again, who who can you what names can you give up?
33:59
SPEAKER_02: Who is a part of your whole scheme here?
34:02
SPEAKER_02: Right.
34:03
SPEAKER_02: And she denies it.
34:04
SPEAKER_02: Right.
34:04
SPEAKER_02: They ask her to remove all of her clothing except for her shift.
34:07
SPEAKER_02: Which is like a nightgown underwear.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: Her little, you know, chemise.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: It's what what's underneath my little wrenfare dress?
34:14
SPEAKER_02: She climbs onto the rack herself.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:17
SPEAKER_02: They fasten her up.
34:20
SPEAKER_02: Maybe say that part again.
34:23
SPEAKER_02: She climbs onto the rack herself.
34:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:26
SPEAKER_02: They fasten her up.
34:27
SPEAKER_02: So they tie up her hands, her sorry, her wrists and her ankles to each side of it.
34:33
SPEAKER_02: Right.
34:33
SPEAKER_01: Like you're you have four straps on you total.
34:36
SPEAKER_02: And then this is kind of the part you were getting into when they actually start like, so they kind of like tease her and they just they're like, oh, just pinch her first.
34:43
SPEAKER_02: Right.
34:43
SPEAKER_02: Just a pinch.
34:44
SPEAKER_02: Just a pinch.
34:45
SPEAKER_02: But that's at the point when Sir Anthony Krebit, the lieutenant, was like, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, pardon.
34:51
SPEAKER_02: I'm leaving.
34:52
SPEAKER_02: Right.
34:52
SPEAKER_02: Um, as they started racking her, she raised up.
34:56
SPEAKER_02: So you can imagine, like, they're stretching her, right?
34:58
SPEAKER_02: And as you stretch, you kind of raise up.
35:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:01
SPEAKER_02: She was lifted up about five inches, which just kind of shows like how stretched she was.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:08
SPEAKER_00: But she continue on this.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I don't have to take over on the colour.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: No, not at all.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: That's that's good information because at one point you reminded me she actually passes out of all the pain and they revive her.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: I think they either slap her or throw water on her either way.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: But they revive her and say, no, no, you're not done.
35:24
SPEAKER_01: And they continue the whole thing like twice.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, two more times over again.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: Two times.
35:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, so finally, once they realize that she's not going to break.
35:36
SPEAKER_01: Oh, get it.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: But she did break.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: Well, she did break.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: Her body physically broke.
35:41
SPEAKER_01: Her body physically broke.
35:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're at the point.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: Shoulders.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:44
SPEAKER_02: Her hips were pulled out of their sockets.
35:47
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
35:48
SPEAKER_02: Her knees and her elbows were dislocated.
35:51
SPEAKER_02: Right.
35:52
SPEAKER_01: Your muscle fiber is literally torn beyond repair.
35:56
SPEAKER_02: There's no point of going back.
35:57
SPEAKER_02: There's no coming back.
35:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you can't put your sockets back in at this point.
36:01
SPEAKER_01: You can't reassemble yourself after something like this.
36:04
SPEAKER_01: At a certain point of racking, your body's literally broken and will not be the same.
36:08
SPEAKER_01: And she was at that point.
36:09
SPEAKER_01: And once she got to that point, they just throw her back in her cell.
36:13
SPEAKER_01: She's there for another month, basically.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, really quick about the racking though.
36:20
SPEAKER_02: Also, her screams, remember?
36:22
unknown: Yes.
36:23
SPEAKER_02: Okay, tell us about the screams real quick.
36:25
SPEAKER_02: She was screaming so loud.
36:26
SPEAKER_02: I was like, why wouldn't you?
36:28
SPEAKER_02: As your limbs are being pulled out of their sockets.
36:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:31
SPEAKER_02: All of them.
36:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:33
SPEAKER_02: At the same time.
36:34
SPEAKER_02: Her screams were so loud that the lieutenant who left, because he couldn't handle it, it must have been like bring your kid to work day or something.
36:41
SPEAKER_02: Because his wife and his daughter were just taking a nice lovely stroll around the gar around the gardens of the Tower of London.
36:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, and they were they happened to have been walking outside of the White Tower, and they could hear her screams through the stone in the walls.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:58
SPEAKER_01: That was blood curdling.
37:00
SPEAKER_02: Ugh.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:01
SPEAKER_01: But she, throughout all that scream, the screams and all that agony did not say a word in terms of betraying anyone.
37:08
SPEAKER_02: Spoke a word.
37:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:09
SPEAKER_02: They then like had her like laying on the ground for a few hours, continuing to interrogate her as she's just like whimpering in her decrepit body.
37:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:18
SPEAKER_02: Still didn't talk.
37:19
SPEAKER_01: Nope.
37:19
SPEAKER_01: That's one tough botch.
37:22
SPEAKER_01: So finally, June 18th, again, this is about a month later at this point.
37:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, she's convicted of heresy.
37:29
SPEAKER_01: And they tell her that the punishment for heresy is to be burned alive at the stake, which after you've been reacting in that much pain and your body's, again, beyond repair, maybe that doesn't sound too bad.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: Thank God, just get this over with.
37:42
SPEAKER_01: Seriously, I'd be like, great, when do we do it?
37:44
SPEAKER_01: Today?
37:45
SPEAKER_01: Right now?
37:45
SPEAKER_01: When's your earliest appointment?
37:47
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
37:47
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
37:48
SPEAKER_02: Ugh.
37:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, she was actually executed with three other men who were all also accused of the same crime of heresy as being a Protestant.
37:58
SPEAKER_02: Um, it was John Lascelles, Nicholas Balenion, and John Adams.
38:03
SPEAKER_02: Right.
38:04
SPEAKER_02: Not the same John Adams.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: Not like American John Adams.
38:06
SPEAKER_02: Who are also her friends.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm sure, like, you know, Protestants in arms kind of thing.
38:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
38:12
SPEAKER_02: Um, they had to carry her out on like a little chair, or they had to just carry her because her body was so just dislocated and in pain and she couldn't walk.
38:24
SPEAKER_02: Right.
38:24
SPEAKER_02: Kind of reminded me of Mark Smean, remember?
38:27
SPEAKER_01: Oh, totally.
38:27
SPEAKER_02: When he got tortured so bad they had to carry him out to be executed as well.
38:31
SPEAKER_01: It's messed up.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: It's like, haven't they had enough at this point?
38:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so she's carried out onto a chair, and I'm sure people are just kind of shocked at seeing her state, especially since she's like a higher, like a noblewoman.
38:42
SPEAKER_02: Right.
38:43
SPEAKER_01: She's also only 25 years old.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: She's 25 and she's very, very much been in the public eye, because again, she's not shy and she's been going around trying to preach to everyone.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: So I'm sure there's a fair number of people that either either knew her through her status or just again through her preachings.
38:58
SPEAKER_02: So when they tie her up to the stake, her body was so broken that she couldn't stand up on her own.
39:04
SPEAKER_02: So normally, you know, you're standing and you're kind of tied up.
39:06
SPEAKER_02: Right.
39:06
SPEAKER_02: They had a s make a little chair for her.
39:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:09
SPEAKER_02: So they like made a seat.
39:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and they chained her up to the stake along with these three other men, but she was sitting in a chair because she couldn't walk and she was racked so hard.
39:21
SPEAKER_01: That sounds sexual weirdly.
39:22
SPEAKER_02: She's racked.
39:24
SPEAKER_01: Racked so hard.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, so so they start the flames, right?
39:29
SPEAKER_01: And um, it is said that someone, either in the crowd or through the executioner at some point, had kind of slipped him a little vessel of gunpowder and said, Hey, like, she's been through enough.
39:44
SPEAKER_01: She needs to go quick.
39:45
SPEAKER_01: And the way that they had the pyre set up was for a slow, very torturous, burning death.
39:52
SPEAKER_01: Whereas they said, just like put this gunpowder on her, you know, either sprinkle it on her body or have a little kind of sack of it near her head and just like let it catch fire and just blow her up because she's been through enough and it needs to be quick at this point.
40:06
SPEAKER_02: Of course, they had a priest come too to like give them final confessions.
40:11
SPEAKER_02: They gave them another opportunity to confess.
40:14
SPEAKER_02: Right.
40:14
SPEAKER_02: And oh my gosh, at this point, do they really think, oh, now's the time she's going to share names?
40:20
SPEAKER_02: She went through all of that and she protected Catherine Parr's name, all of her friends, her whole inner circle.
40:26
SPEAKER_02: And at this point, she's probably ready to go.
40:28
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
40:29
SPEAKER_02: She's probably so grateful there was gunpowder around her neck.
40:31
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
40:32
SPEAKER_02: Make it quick.
40:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
40:33
SPEAKER_01: So the bishop is giving his sermon again, this kind of last sermon, and it was Bishop Shaxton, and he's saying, Oh, you know, these sinners, blah, blah, blah.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: And he's quoting the Bible and he's kind of taking some liberties.
40:45
SPEAKER_01: And apparently, everything that he said that was related directly to the scripture of the Bible, Anne agreed with.
40:51
SPEAKER_01: Like she's literally sitting there, like just being racked, completely, you know, in pain, about to be burned to death, and she's agreeing to everything he's saying that has to do with scripture.
41:01
SPEAKER_01: But as soon as he veers away from scripture and is talking, you know, outside of the Bible, she literally was just shouting, there he misseth and speaketh without the book.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: So she's pointing out as she's about to die, hey, that guy is not saying, you know, the word of the Lord to you.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: He's just now taking liberties and saying whatever he wants to you to fit the situation.
41:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, kind of like overall her final, I don't know if these were her final words, but definitely something that she said amongst interrogation as well.
41:30
SPEAKER_02: Is she said, I would rather die than break my faith.
41:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
41:34
SPEAKER_02: So talk about going out with the bang.
41:37
SPEAKER_02: With the bang.
41:39
SPEAKER_01: So they said that she did not scream until the flames were reached her chest, essentially.
41:45
SPEAKER_02: Of course.
41:45
SPEAKER_02: And at that point, that means your feet, your legs are already burning.
41:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're probably your like your whole lower part of your body.
41:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, your limbs, which are already dislocated anyway.
41:54
SPEAKER_01: Do you even feel them?
41:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, but so she did not scream until the flames reached her chest.
41:58
SPEAKER_01: But then, hopefully, if this story is true, it reached the gunpowder and she met her end with a big bang, as maybe.
42:07
SPEAKER_01: All of them.
42:08
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
42:08
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I think it took all of them.
42:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm really glad that they didn't like Yeah, especially because it was set up in a way to make it long.
42:16
SPEAKER_02: It could have dragged out so much longer.
42:17
SPEAKER_01: Right, exactly.
42:18
SPEAKER_02: Wow, well, how to make a point.
42:20
SPEAKER_02: Um, I thought this was interesting.
42:22
SPEAKER_02: Catherine Parr was arrested at one point.
42:24
SPEAKER_01: Like, I think either around the time of her death or right after her death.
42:29
SPEAKER_02: Very, very close to it.
42:30
SPEAKER_02: And she was such a smart and pragmatic woman that she knew how to play Henry.
42:37
SPEAKER_02: So again, she's had five other wives that she's seen how this yeah, she's seen Anne Boleyn, she's seen Catherine Howard, she's seen how they kind of got themselves into these terrible situations also.
42:47
SPEAKER_02: And she's like, you know what?
42:49
SPEAKER_02: I know how to talk to Henry.
42:50
SPEAKER_02: He's a narcissist.
42:52
SPEAKER_02: All I need to do is really just ruffle, you know, just stroke, stroke his ego.
42:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, stroke that ego.
42:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
42:59
SPEAKER_02: So when he was getting, you know, interrogating, not him personally, but she was being interrogated about um, you know, her practices and the Bible studies and openly talking about religion in front of Henry all the time.
43:12
SPEAKER_02: And her whole argument was, well, I only talked about religion in front of him to distract him from the pain in his leg.
43:20
SPEAKER_02: Like I thought he enjoyed that because it made him think about other things.
43:25
SPEAKER_02: And she just like really again strokes his ego.
43:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:28
SPEAKER_02: That Henry was like, Acceptable.
43:30
SPEAKER_02: Thanks, honey.
43:32
SPEAKER_01: You're the best.
43:33
SPEAKER_02: That's so nice of me, Catherine.
43:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and she's obviously a great nurse for him, a great companion.
43:38
SPEAKER_01: So he doesn't really want to see her go down anyway.
43:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, she she uh immediately plays up to his ego and says, No, no, just I'm here for you.
43:46
SPEAKER_01: I'm here to distract you.
43:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm just a simple woman trying to just make sure you're entertained.
43:51
SPEAKER_01: He's like, Well, that checks out.
43:53
SPEAKER_02: That's crazy.
43:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:55
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I guess overall, just kind of the legacy of Anascio.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: The I don't know about you, Elizabeth, but like the biggest takeaway I got from this is what a frickin' feminist.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: I mean throughout all of it.
44:08
SPEAKER_01: Like she, you know, was resistant to the idea of being married in the first place.
44:12
SPEAKER_01: Like basically kept her maiden name throughout this whole time.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: Was the first woman on record to like seek divorce in England.
44:19
SPEAKER_01: Um was the first woman to be tortured, first woman, well, not yeah, woman to be tortured.
44:24
SPEAKER_02: At the Tower of London.
44:25
SPEAKER_01: At the Tower of London, first person to be burned at the stake.
44:29
SPEAKER_01: Like she had all of these things.
44:31
SPEAKER_01: You know, we should specify in England at the Tower of London.
44:35
SPEAKER_01: Right.
44:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, but again, these things are all monumental again for someone of her education level, of her class status, and to just throw that all away and say, I know what I'm supposed to do.
44:45
SPEAKER_01: Like I could be in the country as a good Catholic wife slash mother and just live out my days peacefully, or I could go to London and speak my truth and make sure people know who I am, basically abandon her family, like not take her husband's name, seek divorce, and just like be an independent progressive woman, which is make a name for herself.
45:03
SPEAKER_01: Pretty yeah, wild for this time.
45:05
SPEAKER_01: And obviously it didn't end well for her, but she's very much recognized today as a martyr of uh the Protestant faith, and you know, just feminists recognize her for how just strong she was in her convictions, and she didn't have any allies really in this.
45:18
SPEAKER_01: Like sure, other Protestants, I'm sure, supported her, and you know, throughout time were with her.
45:23
SPEAKER_01: Whoever gave her that gunpowder.
45:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, someone cared enough about her, but she died alone.
45:29
SPEAKER_01: I mean, with these other people that were yeah friendly, but that's not again the point of why she died.
45:34
SPEAKER_01: I think they just rounded them up at the same time, they weren't really involved in the exact same things.
45:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, and she just kind of was tortured alone, like sat in her cell alone, like met her end, just like, okay, I'm dying for my beliefs.
45:46
SPEAKER_01: Where's Britney?
45:47
SPEAKER_02: Where's Britney when you need her?
45:49
SPEAKER_02: I also wonder, I don't know.
45:51
SPEAKER_02: I have a lot of questions.
45:51
SPEAKER_02: I have a lot of loose ends, I feel like.
45:53
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
45:53
SPEAKER_02: So if anybody knows these details, I'm gonna be able to do that.
45:56
SPEAKER_02: Tell me, maybe.
45:56
SPEAKER_02: Like, I want to know about her parents and her dad.
45:59
SPEAKER_02: And her dad, who saw the whole trial of Anne Boleyn and was a juror on it.
46:03
SPEAKER_02: So he saw a downfall of a woman in her execution.
46:06
SPEAKER_02: Like, how did he think seeing his daughter be tortured, racked, and then like pathetically tied up to a stake where she couldn't even walk and then burn and burst alive.
46:17
SPEAKER_01: He must have known, right?
46:19
SPEAKER_01: Because he was was at one point very, you know, not renowned, but known in the King Henry VIII court.
46:26
SPEAKER_01: So it's like once you're in that circle and King Henry doesn't kill you, you kind of, you know, stay in that circle and don't you see these things, especially if it's your daughter.
46:36
SPEAKER_02: Not to make things like even more terrible than how they ended.
46:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:41
SPEAKER_02: Henry died like six months later.
46:44
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
46:45
SPEAKER_02: He died in January.
46:47
SPEAKER_02: The following, so this was July.
46:48
SPEAKER_02: July.
46:49
SPEAKER_02: He dies in January, and then his son Edward is now king.
46:53
SPEAKER_02: And Edward.
46:57
SPEAKER_01: So the boy king.
46:58
SPEAKER_02: If she could have just gotten away for another six months, she would have been thriving.
47:04
SPEAKER_02: I know.
47:04
SPEAKER_02: And between, I mean, maybe she wouldn't have survived Mary the First Reign because she really didn't like those heretics.
47:11
SPEAKER_02: She probably eventually I think eventually she would have been it she would have had the same fate.
47:16
SPEAKER_02: But imagine if she made it through all of that and even got into Elizabeth's era, she would have been like fine.
47:23
SPEAKER_02: Best woman, lady in waiting.
47:25
SPEAKER_01: She's like on the privy council.
47:27
SPEAKER_02: Like seriously, maybe like they would have changed all of I don't know, it's so true.
47:31
SPEAKER_02: Women in power.
47:33
SPEAKER_01: If it's one thing we know about the Tudor dynasty, it's all about timing.
47:36
SPEAKER_01: Like whatever you believe, whoever you talked to, whatever you did, it's all about timing.
47:41
SPEAKER_01: Because things are uh very flippy floppy in this court and things change all the time.
47:46
SPEAKER_02: And there's oh sorry, go on.
47:47
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I was gonna say, you know, in terms of hypotheticals as well.
47:50
SPEAKER_01: Like also, what if Ann uh Catherine Parr wasn't arrested when she was, and maybe she was just kind of free to do whatever and wasn't considered a target.
48:00
SPEAKER_01: Maybe she would have gone to Anne Askew's kind of aid because again, this kind of happened at the same time, and I think Catherine Parr was more worried about her skin and what her fate was gonna be.
48:10
SPEAKER_01: So if she was safe, maybe she would have said, Hey, whoa, what are we doing with this Anne Askew?
48:15
SPEAKER_01: Like she like come on, we don't need to torture a woman, we don't need to prove to everyone that she's a heretic by burning her at the stake.
48:23
SPEAKER_01: Maybe she would have had a little more of a hand in saving Anne.
48:26
SPEAKER_01: So again, timing throughout all of this.
48:31
SPEAKER_02: I also just think there's like two ways that you could live in King Henry's court.
48:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:36
SPEAKER_02: You could be safe about it, right?
48:39
SPEAKER_02: And you could just kind of go with whatever Henry's feelings were.
48:42
SPEAKER_02: So if we're Protestant this day, we're Protestant.
48:44
SPEAKER_02: If we're back to Catholic, then we're Catholic.
48:46
SPEAKER_01: No matter how confused you are, just go with it.
48:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:49
SPEAKER_02: Or there's the risk that Anne took and she was so solid in her faith, and she was so confident and knew what she wanted.
48:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
48:57
SPEAKER_02: Um sorry if you hear ruffling.
49:00
SPEAKER_02: Penny is getting all worked up on Anne ask you.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: Penny Moore is just digging into this carpet.
49:06
SPEAKER_02: My dog is making some noise.
49:07
SPEAKER_02: I apologize.
49:07
SPEAKER_02: But I'm not gonna we're like on a good one, so I'm not gonna stop here.
49:11
SPEAKER_02: Um, but Anne like was so confident and courageous and brave.
49:15
SPEAKER_02: And that was the other thing.
49:15
SPEAKER_02: They said she was very well, you said that like she was so brave when she got to the her actual execution.
49:21
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, there's two different ways you can play the game, and she took the hard way, but I mean remaining feelings.
49:27
SPEAKER_02: But we're also talking about her and not the nobodies who didn't stand up for their beliefs.
49:32
SPEAKER_01: It's true, you could be a nobody at court and just go along with everything, but those aren't the ones that make history.
49:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, Elizabeth, any final words?
49:42
SPEAKER_01: I would rather die than break my faith.
49:46
SPEAKER_01: But I would break my bones.
49:47
SPEAKER_02: Like Ann has it.