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Breaking Free from Nice Guy Syndrome: Harrison Saunders on Living Authentically · The James Granstrom Podcast - Super Soul Model series

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I think the nice guy doesn't know what he values.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: This is why in conversations he was conflicted.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I remember I had a lot of trouble because when debates would come up and when these certain scenarios happening, I never questioned oh hang on, what do I actually want to do here?
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: And I had so much indecision I was like I really struggled with making decisions and it was because I didn't know my value.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to the James Gresham podcast.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: This week's guest is the host of the Growth Voyage podcast, a show dedicated to supporting men in their personal development through the raw, relatable conversations he has, after a major shift at 19, began his own journey and his own deep inner work, ultimately confronting and overcoming nice guy syndrome.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: This week's guest is none other than Harrison Saunders.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the show.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Thank you, james, really really good to be here.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Harrison, I love this idea of the nice guy syndrome.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: I'm sure a lot of people may have heard of it, but you know, laugh it off.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: But there's some like undertone, some serious dark undertone to it, and why not just start at the beginning and then we can under understand this absolutely.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, like all experiences, it begins at a young age, at school, always feeling like I was different from everybody else, I always found it very difficult to fit in.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: I had this perception that there was something wrong with me, that, yeah, just no matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't find any sort of deep connections, anyone who could reconnect with me.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Maybe, if I was lucky, I could get maybe one or two best friends, but then I'd be hiding from everybody else and from a young age I, yeah, I think, carried quite a lot of shame and at the same time, was also very happy.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: In many ways I was very privileged.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: From my understanding, it was a very privileged upbringing, right?
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: I grew up in, yeah, in a great house sorry, north London and I grew up, but what happened was I had low self-esteem from a young age.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: But as I got into my teens 14, 15, 16, 17 something started to change.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: I started to get attention somehow.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Maybe it was through sports, as a goalkeeper, maybe it was from female validation attention, and so what I'd done is I, around the age of 15, 16, not only was I getting that attention, but I started thinking about okay, how can I build an identity for myself.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: So I went to the gym, I built up confidence, really enjoyed that, did it all for the physical, aesthetic reasons, and then I sort of built this ego in my head, right.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: And then what happened was I was still underneath all the layers.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: I was still finding it very tricky to connect with people, even though in my mind I was being genuine, I was loving.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: How could anyone not just love me, and why is it so difficult to make friendships?
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: However, on the surface, I was getting on okay and what happened was at the age of 19,.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: I was in this on and off relationship with this girl and it was very exciting, right.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: It was like my ego had hit an all-time high because in the past it was okay.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Well, I get all this female attention from women, so suddenly I've become important.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: I've become getting all the validation that you felt you weren't getting in your younger years exactly right, that's it, you're coming at a culmination point.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Well, I didn't know that.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Right in my mind I just thought oh well, you know who like you, don't know, because it's your belief system.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: So for me it was just okay.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: This is me.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: I'm confident.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Now I can get anything I want, even though that wasn't always the case.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: But in this instance, in my mind, I'd hit, hit the top.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: So I was in a really exciting situation, relationship, however you want to call it on and off, and that for me, on the surface, was great.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: However, underneath it all, in this first relationship, I had somewhat serious.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: I wasn't really myself.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I built this ego, this identity.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I was very quiet, I was nice, very easygoing, and I had this perception in my mind that I had to be the chilled guy, the easygoing guy, and I didn't have any boundaries.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: There were some things that really annoyed me, but in my mind my perception was oh no, I've got to be the nice guy.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: I can't, I don't want to be like other people who are loud and cocky and rude and shouty.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: So no, if something's annoying me, hang on that's, you know, that's I can't make it, I can't say anything.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: But no, I can't do that.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: And so I found myself in this toxic pattern where we were on and off and it just it wasn't really a fit right and that's okay.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: But I kept on going back into the same situation.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Now what happened was I was at a house party and I believe it was her house party, her friend's house party, but she was living there and, bearing in mind, at this point, I still thought, okay, I'm the guy, I'm the guy who runs the place, I can get any woman I want.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: And I was at this house party.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: I'd taken fair few drugs, lots of alcohol.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: I was feeling on top of the world, I was dancing with my mates and for me it was great because I knew at the end of the night I'd go back with this girl and that would be.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: That, for me, was always the highlight of the night.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: If I could go back with someone, then, yeah, that's a success, then you will be loved, I will be loved, I'll be, you will be loved, right?
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: yeah, you'll be like I've got it all, okay, and then and then I'm going around looking for her and I'm thinking, oh, I can't see her.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Where is this girl, where's this girl?
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: And then I'm looking.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: I'm looking and I'm like, oh, where is she?
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: Where is she?
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: And then I feel my heart rate starting to speed up.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: I'm starting to, I'm looking and I'm like, oh, where is she?
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Where is she?
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: And then I feel my heart rate starting to speed up.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: I'm starting to get a bit anxious.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: And then I'm in the bathroom and I hear somebody say, oh, where's this girl?
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: And someone replied oh, she's in her bedroom with this guy.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: And I remember I heard that and I froze, I thought, oh my gosh.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: And then my heart rate just got really, really fast.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: And then suddenly it's like my whole world just went upside down and I couldn't comprehend what was happening and I was so upset, angry, just shocked.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: I was shocked more than anything.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: My Hiko took such a beating.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: So then I went back home and I went back to my place I was staying at and I sat there and I was like, oh my god, what is this?
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Is this?
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: So this is what depression must be like.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: It was like this cloud above me that I just couldn't.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: I just couldn't get through and it was like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna stay like this forever, like this is frightening, this is crazy.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: And that was the moment that transformed my life and from then on, I always say this I am so grateful for that moment because I had the wake-up call that would then lead me down a huge path of self-development and self-discovery, because the wound is where the light enters.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: And really, when he says that, the persian poet roomie, what he's really trying to say and it's tough is, especially when you're young and you're having to deal with this I had a something similar at the age of 19 and had a car crash is that light needs to enter to crack the masked self open without it, you're not gonna get exactly.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: You need to crack the ego open so far so that the light can enter and it can begin to heal.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: In Japanese, they have this beautiful pottery of all these smashed pieces, but when they glue them back together again, they call them it's.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: It's a, it's an art, but it's also like there's like very cared for and treasured, because when things are cracked and you hand them back together again, they've got more value and it's a bit like the human spirit.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you find the most together.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: People have gone through some significant painful suffering experiences and come out the other side because you recognize that through that pain and suffering you grow, you realize what's important, you realize what isn't important and then you can have compassion for other people who are going through tough times absolutely, and on on that point you're not going to have that wake-up call.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: I think without it and exactly as you were saying, when you rebuild, you can build stronger foundations.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Now, and I'm sure you will agree with me, happening at the age of 19 is such a blessing.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: That's what I say to guys who are my age or younger, are struggling.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: It's just like wow, what a blessing.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Some people don't get this moment until 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's on their deathbed, so it's a real blessing yeah, this question is is that you may have that challenge, but what are you going to do with it?
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: How are you going to rebuild and are you going to come from hopefully a steady place, because your foundations are shaking?
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: At that moment, I had a car crash at 19 and I went through the windscreen and the car was upside down and nothing happened to my face.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: I got some glass on my back and that was it.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: But when I walked away from that experience, I thought number one how am I still alive?
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: And then number two is whatever I've been thinking and all my actions, I mean I've been so selfish it's a joke and I've just been thinking about me rather than there is more to life than just me that's really interesting.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: So for you, did you have an identity crisis, or was it more just okay, I'm stuck with my thoughts.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Now I'm left with nothing but my thoughts, and then you can't avoid it because you're not busy doing anything well when you feel well, anybody going through any, everyone's going through something.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: But it just takes a realization that maybe your actions aren't in harmony with your thinking and you're expecting more from life rather than giving to life.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: I've come to the, the place in my life now where it's time to give, not take, and it's like what can I give?
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: How can I help?
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Where can I show up?
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: What can I do?
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: That's a bit different than maybe give to me, but that's kind of like what you need as a child.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: As a child in those younger years, it's like I'm hopefully have some type of guardians or parents that are able to direct you.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: But the fact of the matter is is that you're dealing with parents who are doing the best they can with what they know.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: And this generation where we're in now is really interesting because more people are awake, more people are conscious, more people are spiritually minded that there might be something else going on, and then, in doing so, they're trying to heal their own challenges and find happiness, joy, love and laughter, which is on the flip side of pain and suffering.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Right, so you can't find great joy without having deep sadness.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: So it's a real like flip.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: So you know we're all wanting something from life, but I I had an interview with a guy called neil donald walsh and he says it's not about you, it's about the lives you touch and that's the purpose of what you're doing with the growth void podcast, is the purpose of what you're doing with the Growth Void podcast, it's the purpose of what we're doing here on the Super Soul Model series and it's our challenges and how we come back which is the real story.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: And I feel as though I've reflected on this and I'm starting to come to the idea that we all kind of have to go through this journey.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: The first one is, as you were saying, we grow up believing the whole world revolves around us and we almost have to chase success.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: We have to almost reach that success or die chasing it, to realize actually, no, hang on, that's not what it's all about.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: And I think it's really really difficult when you have that belief system, right, you hear, because I remember listening to all the podcasts, right, and it was listening to these billionaires and saying how old money doesn't make you happy, and you'll read all the comments and they're saying, oh, it's easy for him to save, uh, you know when he's got money, but it's only when you chase success yourself.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: You don't even have to feel it fully, but even just on that journey and realize, actually, hang on a sec.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: There must be something more to this, because it's all based of some external validation, societal conditioning, and I believe perhaps everybody on the path to spiritual growth has to go through that journey.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Exactly, right, exactly, realize it's not for them.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: It's so funny.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: We need internal validation more than external validation.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: We need, like harrison, to have his own self-validation.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Well done, harrison.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: You did well there.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Buddy, I like the way you handled that conflict.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: I like the way you handled those challenges.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: I like the way you showed up for yourself and put some healthy boundaries in place when it wasn't easy and I hadn't, you hadn't previously done that before.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: That's the validation you need and you know well done for showing up and you hadn't previously done that before.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: That's the validation you need, and you know well done for showing up and doing another episode and having that guess in and asking the tough questions and still showing up, even on those days when you really don't feel like showing up.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: That's the validation.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: And I think that's an important point as well, because I went through my journey believing, oh no.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: When I came to these realizations, it was no, you can't have anything external, it's all internal, it's all internal, it's all you.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: But it's like I'm gonna say, we all evolved from tribes.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: It's a human requirement to have some form of tribe and we yeah, I think we, I think we, we need that and it's normal to want that.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: But that was very late for me to understand that.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: I always thought it had to be internal.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: But I think that's a great point.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Is that?
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: No, it's okay if you want that.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: But okay, what type of validation is it?
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Is it to do with your character, how you showed up in the world, as you were alluding to before?
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Are you showing up as a kind person?
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Are you putting your boundaries in place?
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Are you a great example for other people?
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: so I think that's it's not easy because it takes it takes discipline and and I was the most ill-disciplined person, um, but it's part of the journey.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: But, like what I want to know about your journey and you know the listeners are in everyone's going through something, but how did you come out of that?
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: How did you confront that nice guy syndrome and how did you actually discover what that was?
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: And perhaps I'll probably call it people pleasing, I don't know, but how did you discover that and step away from that identity that?
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Perhaps you falsely created, that, perhaps you falsely created.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's important to mention that.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: It didn't happen overnight, certainly not.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: I stayed in the same cycles for a while after that, Even though that was the wake-up call.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes the universe is going to keep on giving you the same lesson over and over until you really understand it.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: So for a long time it was this victimization, right, the focus was on this, this girl.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: And then I came to peace.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: Wouldn't say it in the wrong way, but my perception of the time was okay, no, like she's troubled, she's had her trauma, probably, and she's done this, but it was all still.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: The focus was all outward.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: So it was only when I repeated the same similar cycles with other female interactions where I was like, oh, hang on a sec, there's a certain dynamic happening here.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: I'm did you actually notice, did you witness it yourself going this same thing's happening again?
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: yes, and I had to do that a couple times where I thought there's an imbalance here.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: I'm chasing something and I'm not being respected, but I'm allowing it, and then that's that got me really thinking.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, hang on, I must be the common denominator here I love that.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: That is such a wonderful bit of awakening and consciousness.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: I know that because I had that experience.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: It's like it must be me all the.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: There's a guy who, uh, I really like who I follow.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: His name's randy gage, and he said that I was always caught in the middle of a problem and he goes wherever there was a problem.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: I was there, so he goes, it must be me.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: And I had exactly the same thing.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: I was like why are these things happening?
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: I was like it can't be anyone else, it must be me, and I love the way that you go.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: I'm the common denominator.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: So what happened after that when you figured that out?
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: well, once I figured that out, it was clear I had to put boundaries in place.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: I looked up people pleasing what it actually meant.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: I started to practice on low-stakes scenarios and I thought, okay, can I speak?
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: to my mind, what's a low-stakes scenario?
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say even a simple one, right?
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: Let's say we're talking and you say something that I don't necessarily agree with.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: The common thing the people pleaser does is to just agree, right, it's like, oh, okay, yeah, no, I agree with that, whereas in reality you're thinking, hang on, I'll say that's not right.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: But then you, you're endorsing this behavior.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: Now it can be quite a big jump, I think.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: If you're thinking right, I'm going to suddenly put boundaries in place with a sibling, a family member, a best friend, and that carries a lot of risk, and I really appreciate now that that can be a big jump for some people if you're not used to that.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: So I just say, right, low stakes scenario if you go to the pub not my thing anymore, but maybe it's someone you meet at a pub or a night out could you practice setting a boundary there.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Maybe someone's talking too close to your face, could you just take a step back and go oh, excuse me, excuse me, mate.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: And then naturally I think you'll build up a bit of confidence there, just getting those tiny, tiny reps in.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: So that's what I did.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: I started on nights out just practicing these small conversations, challenging people's ideas and just slowly building up confidence.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: But then I started to think, actually, who actually am I?
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Who am I beneath all these layers and am I proud of the way I'm showing up?
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: And I thought, right, I just want to become someone who I can be proud of.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: So it was all about discipline, confidence.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I'd mentioned the gym before, but I took that to another level.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: I competed in Thai boxing.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: I really tested myself.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: I would go um, I would sign up for a fight and in the lead-up it was very serious.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: It was four times a week training.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: I'd maybe run five kilometers in under 20 minutes and I was running, yeah, amazing I was training straight after that, so I really just became a hero for myself.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: I showed up every day, I looked in the mirror, said my affirmations and started.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: What affirmations and started building a life.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: What affirmations did you say?
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: It's always good to know because, see, when people are just cracking open from the unconscious behaviour and thinking, oh, I'm the common denominator, the bad stuff and the good stuff, it's always me.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: And what I really admire that you mentioned earlier is you're like I'm not the victim.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: And that's really tough because as soon as you can drop out of that, I'm the victim to, I'm the creator, and whether I know it or not, I'm creating my experience.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: Even if I'm doing it unconsciously or by default, I'm still doing it.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: And if you can get there, if you can get to that really at the edge, if you can get to that, it's the, it's a home run from there because you're free, then if you can't get there if you think now the world's still out to get me, or those people aren't safe, or you know whatever, or it's always happening to me well.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: This is why I I really believe that we need to surround ourselves with good people, right, people who will hold you accountable, whereas with the nice guy, often what he will do is because he's operating at a certain frequency or energy level, he tends to hang out with people who are on that same frequency, right, and because you've got low self-worth, you're looking for external validation.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: You will shrink yourself and they'll reinforce your own habits, and so when you are out of alignment, when you are operating from this victim mentality, they won't call you out.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: They'll maybe, yeah, they'll encourage these behaviors, right, and so this is why surrounding yourself with, if it's not a coach, just someone who inspires you, a good, embodied man, can encourage you to take responsibility, put your boundaries in place, call you forward, right so it's really difficult to surround yourself with good people if you're in that frequency because they're not on your vibe.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, so the only thing that I've noticed in this modern age which is great is podcasts, is YouTube videos is actually spelling it out.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: That's really important, and if you can actually put yourself in an environment where you can gain greater confidence, then that's great.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Or go and get a mentor who will pull you up, Because a great mentor won't come down to your level.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: They'll stay there yeah, and I I do believe, because my big thing was right you've got to change your environment, right.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: So for me it was getting out of this university environment.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to have a year abroad and, yeah, meet new people who wouldn't sort of yeah I could feel like I could be myself authentically with.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: But I think a big part of it is actually going okay.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: You know what?
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: It's not necessary?
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: It's not always about your environment.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: If you can't change your environment, if you find yourself in your situation like you're alluding, to listen to some podcasts, read some books, just read, read 10 minutes a day, just 10 minutes of any self-help book and yeah, some books I think are like game changers, right.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: But I think just being exposed to these ideas I think will expand your mind a bit and get you thinking differently.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: I think that's the, that's really the key there, so you can change your environment anywhere.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: I think that's important, an important point to mention I like the the way you mentioned a little earlier.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: You were trying to get out of these layers.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: Now, those layers, everybody feels as though they're certain layers to me.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: What do you mean by those layers?
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: And then, what I liked that you said about that, it was like I want to know who am I underneath all of that, because I think that there's something brilliant that you did with that understanding there.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: So the way I can articulate this is because you, I still held so much shame over who I was as a kid, so I was building up all these character traits and I was becoming so far disconnected from who I actually was.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, absolutely, build discipline, go to the gym, do hard stuff, build up these incredible character traits that no one can take away from you.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: However, are you still connected to yourself?
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Can you still love yourself?
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Underneath it all?
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: And a lot of the time, I think we use that experience, these experiences as childhood, as big driving forces, but we're still disconnected.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: We're.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: We want to be as so far away from that child as possible, which is where I think.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: When I started looking outwardly, that's where I started to gain more answers about my layers, because I was very internal.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: I was in my head think about the man I wanted to become.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: But when I wanted to start looking outwardly and start thinking, okay, what can I learn from other people?
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: Where are my triggers?
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: What am I?
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Why am I?
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Why don't I like this guy?
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Why am I sort of being made uncomfortable by this guy?
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: And I started toying with these ideas and I thought, hang on, I'm projecting something here.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: I'm projecting something, and that gave me the idea that, okay, hang on.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: When I found out that triggers are your teachers, that's when I started thinking, yeah, some things, some things.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Something is hiding underneath here and that's when I really started to think.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Right, let's reconnect to harrison.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Underneath all the layers, underneath all these nice guy masks, this stoic mask and that was the stoicism was a whole other journey as well so can I just ask it without getting too personal, just in a general what?
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: what makes you feel the shame when you're a kid, that you bring it into your early life because everybody's thinking, god, I feel guilty or I've got shame or I'm anxious.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: But there's a reason why we felt like that and have brought it.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: I believe, like everyone is a child made into an adult body and you're still carrying around like your techniques that you used to do as a child.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: But I noticed with myself after like two decades of daily meditation, like all these things just came up to the surface.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: I was like hang on a minute, this isn't right.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: But we do carry challenges and those lower emotions when we're a kid.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: And may I ask, like the shame, where did that come from?
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: What was that about?
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: Was that being in a privileged environment and feeling that that wasn't right with the peers, or what was that about?
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: I don't think it was about the environment.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: I was always happy to, I say, admit that I came from privileged background.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: I went to one of the top boarding schools in the country.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: I never hid that way because that was part of me.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: What I think happened was back at the age of six.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: That was when my parents got divorced, yeah, and that's where my whole world just kind of changed, because you don't really understand what, what the world really is at that point.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: You don't get all these complex adult scenarios we get, and at the time my dad really struggled because of that and he didn't really have anyone to turn to.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Maybe he had like one or two friends, but even then that culture they grew up in it just wasn't a thing you know with, with parents who grew up during the war.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: I think he was actually born during world war ii.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, that's um, that gives you a bit of perspective and I feel like I took on quite a lot of the mess that came about from from that did you feel like you were sponging the myth at some level?
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, and I still had no idea what was going on, except that these horrible things were happening and it was.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I felt like I was taking this on, but then I didn't really have an idea of, okay, what am I supposed to do with this?
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, am I supposed to hate this person?
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Am I supposed to like?
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: How am I supposed to be in this world?
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: And at school I've been naturally being bullied, being picked on.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: I kind of just felt very lost and this shame, I think, just came from not really having belonging, feeling like I was always looking at someone else's problems, the attention was always elsewhere, it was never on me.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: So I felt very lost.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: I didn't know who I was and I think every time I tried to be weird or say something funny, it was shut down.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: And even when I wore the nice guy mask, even when I was this confident guy on the well, I say confidence, but outwardly confident what would happen is I would just, you know, I wouldn't really say much in conversations, I would just be there and try and be like chilled out, cool guy.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Uh, you know, I had like a man bun, I had, uh, sometimes it was a skin fade and I was just, you know, very minimal, still connecting with people on a surface level.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: But what happened is, as I started to trust these people, I would show my real self, the weird Harrison you know the kid from the kid from school and whenever I did that, it wasn't met with the same receptivity.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: It was almost like oh, who's this guy?
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: This is strange.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: And then, coming back to the nice guy, I wasn't voicing my annoyances.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: I wasn't telling people I was annoyed at stuff they did.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: So what did I do?
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Instead of telling them them directly?
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: If we were having a conversation, I'd say James, I don't appreciate that.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Do you mind not doing that please?
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: I didn't have any respect for myself.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: So what I did was I would shove it down, I would build resentment, and what happens with resentment is that it never leaves your body, it never goes away.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: So for me it was.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: It was right I'd be this cool guy on the surface and then randomly I'd shout or I would feel these big rejection wounds and I would be feeling really bad about stuff.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: So it'd be like passive aggressive and then external aggressive in some kind of way.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: So the fighting is a way to get that irate, heavy energy out, like the thai boxing and so forth.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Well, that's why the Thai boxing was such a great outlet for me, yeah, but it's an outlet.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: It's a flow, right.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: A lot of boxers come from heavy backgrounds and they need a way to express that, so it's a healthy thing.
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: But once you become healthy, if you've got frustration, hitting a boxing bag is great, but once you're back in center, again that.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: But once you're back in center again, that is not what you want to do.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: You want to learn something else, like Tai Chi.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: If you managed it.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: So, like I noticed, when my emotions change, do I go on the bag?
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: If I've got some heavy energy, I want to explain, yes, and I'll do it.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: And I notice okay, look, I've channeled that energy really well and I found my creativity is amazing when I know when I've channeled that energy in a positive way rather than a negative way.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: But when we do it negatively, we internally combust and then our world around us changes because our vibration and our frequency changes.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: I want to know when you noticed the nice guy syndrome and changed it.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: But then I also want to know for the people listening, because I'll be like fascinated.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: What did you notice around you begin to change?
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Yes, it was.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: I remember an exact incident where I wanted to go to pro wrestling training.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: I was an aspiring pro wrestler, absolutely loved it, and it fell on, I don't know.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Let's say a thursday evening, and I remember my friend I think it was saint patrick's day.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: He's like oh, harrison, we're going to the pub for saint patrick's day, do you want to come?
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then I said I think I'm going to go to wrestling.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: He's like oh, come on, don't be boring, come on, come.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: And I ended up going to the pub and I remember that moment.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: I'm there and I'm having this drink.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: And then after I remember, the pro wrestling coach messaged me and he said oh, are you okay, harrison?
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Haven't seen you at training recently.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: And I thought and that was just such a big you know what?
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Hang on, this is the last, this is the last show.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: I'm completely done with this now.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's when I thought right, you know what my goals and ambitions are far more important than anyone else's, at least from a friendship level and before you go on about looking at the world and outside of you.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: So that was the first time in a friendship setting where I was like okay, I've had enough of this.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: And then I started reflecting back on my previous friendships with people and I realized just how unbalanced it was.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: It was always just me wanting to be included in everything and then not being included.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: And then that's why I just thought you know what?
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: I'm just so done with this.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: I want to build my own life.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: And then I think, as you go out of university, what happens is you suddenly don't have an excuse to go out anymore.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Right, it's for a lot of people, university's a fun time.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: You go out drinking and you have the women, the attention and all this other stuff going on.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: But for me, what happened was when I left that environment, suddenly I had a choice on weekends, do I go out or do I take up this new hobby and pro wrestling was a big one because I thought no, I would much rather put my own needs first, because that's more exciting to me.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: So for me, suddenly, when I realized, oh, actually there's more to this world than the drinking, the hanging out with people, suddenly that was a realization.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: I thought no, my needs are more important.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: So I think you've got to have that, whereas I think early on in the nice guy's story.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: He's always just looking to be included.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: It's about I want more friends, I want to be included.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: But then I realized everything and then I noticed every single scenario.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: I felt like I was invisible.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: I felt like it wouldn't matter if I was here, like no one, no one's interested.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: And it was when I went to pro wrestling where I was like, oh my gosh, hang on a sec.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: These guys are all weird, like me.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: This is amazing.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: And I found that community there and I thought this is just brilliant, like I can just be.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: These guys hang on.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking these guys are weird.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: I thought I was a weird guy and then now it's like, oh wow, these are my people.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: That's why I really love it is that when you own who you are and your weirdness, you know people just like go that you're my kind of person.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: But if you're not being authentic with that, then it always gets hidden.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: I personally believe something that you mentioned which is really important that you often tend to people please when you haven't got a purpose, and I think this is a massive one, especially for men.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: And this is very important for women, because women are mostly and always attracted to men who have got a purpose and follow it, because it's leadership.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: But if men don't have a purpose, you're vulnerable.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: A most dangerous man and I mean that in a positive way is a man who knows where he's going.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Well, I agree with that wholeheartedly.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: I love how you put that, because when you have a mission, when you have a vision, suddenly it's like, well, you don't have, you just don't have time like you drop all this stuff off.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: You drop the things that aren't necessary anymore.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: That's not good.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: This is just so important.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: People respect you and then they value your time so much more, because if your time is always given away, people don't value it and it's a good point to, I'd say to anyone work out what your values are.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: I think the nice guy doesn't know what he values.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: This is why in conversations he was conflicted.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: I remember I had a lot of trouble because when debates would come up and when these certain scenarios happening, I never questioned oh hang on, what do I actually want to do here?
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: And I had so much indecision.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: I was, I, like I really struggled with making decisions and it was because I didn't know my values.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: I didn't know what it was.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: So I was just this again, just no direction, just I was just flowing, flowing, flowing and your question.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: What gave you direction?
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: What?
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: What was it?
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: Was it the?
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: The conversation in the pub when the, the pro wrestling manager, um director, said to you I haven't seen you in training, what?
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: What was it that you go?
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: Do you know what?
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: This is important.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: This is my mission.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: This is the route I want to go, and also setting up the podcast, the growth void.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: You know that's got to come from something within to go.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: I can help people.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: I've been through this and that's exactly what you're doing.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: You're helping a lot of people, you're coaching a lot of people well, that was the problem was one scenario right where I thought, hang on, this, this isn't, this isn't right.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's the environment that needs changing, maybe, my well, I need, I need something, and that's where, when I found that something, I had a direction to go on.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: However, that was in myself, and then I started thinking okay, well, I'm somewhat along this growth journey now.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: I'm starting to detach from any sort of nice guy tendencies, I'm detaching from my social circle, and I felt a little bit lonely, a little bit.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: However, now I was like no, I'm happy, I'm showing up for myself, I'm getting up early on a Saturday and going to jiu-jitsu.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: So it was, yeah, like, while I would like connection, and I was looking at people's Instagram stories, I thought, oh, would have liked to get the invite to that.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, that looks like a good night out.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: So I'd feel that emotion really heavily on the Friday evening, but Saturday morning I'd go to jujitsu, have a wicked session, and then I'd get my first submission on someone and I'm like and it's Saturday and it's 11 am and I'm there walking and I'm high as hell and there's no jug at all.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: I'm just there, just like, and I found so much meaning in that and I thought, wow, that is awesome.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: So that's when, I think, that's when I really started to lead my own life.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: And then I started along this growth journey and I thought, hang on, there's this middle bit here.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: So you've left the nice guy tendencies, you've left the nice guy mask, but you want to become this person.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: You've got this vision.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: So, before you get there, there's this period in between where, okay, you've, you're kind of leaving that you'll fall back into old patterns, maybe you'll procrastinate a bit, maybe you'll get back into smoking one night, like these tendencies still happen.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: And you have a choice you can either go back to the life that you used to have as a nice guy or you can continue on the journey.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Now what I love to believe happens with everyone is that they think right, you know what I've.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: You look backwards and you're like, hang on a sec, I don't want to go back there.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: So you have no choice but to keep on going.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: And I thought why not create a podcast where?
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: Which is dedicated to people in that middle spot, where they've gone on this journey and they're not quite where they want to be yet, but they can finally listen to people who've gone through that journey or are still on it, and that was my vision.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: It was so these people who, in their mind, think they're the only ones that they're crazy, but they're living in a society that doesn't accept them and they're strange ones that they're crazy, but they're living in a society that doesn't accept them and they're strange Actually, no, you're on the right path.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: Keep on going and I promise you your life is going to be so much better.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: So that's the vision.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: I love that and you know, in addition to what you're saying there, I think it's really important that if people are at a crossroads and they don't know what's going to happen next, I think that that's the best place to be, because the unknown is waiting for you to discover.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: I remember when I first turned sober, like 20-odd years ago, and became plant-based, I was the only guy doing it and I was like all right, I don't know anybody in my sphere of influence who's doing?
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: anything similar.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: But the reason why I did it was because I drank so much like binge drinking and I was just like I know what's going to happen next weekend.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be that person next weekend, but you can't stop something without starting something else.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: And for me, in my journey and my listeners now, I think this is really powerful to drop the nice guy or the nice girl syndrome.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: You've got to do something for you that is just for you, and it's definitely got to be something for your mental well-being, your health, your mind, body and your soul.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: Something and I made that commitment to myself daily I'm going to do something for my mind, body and soul every day, something that makes me happy, something that calms me and is good for me, something that moves the body, something that's going to go inside the body nutrition and food that's good.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to find a way to quiet my mind.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: And that's when I began meditation and doing stretching and eating really well and spending more time in nature and doing things I love, which is music and like being outside.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: I was like, wow, this actually happened.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: And so for my journey, it was I am so important, or my well-being is so important that my life cannot spark any change unless I do something new today.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: So what was your new thing?
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: Like, you had your Thai boxing, is that right?
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: You had your wrestling.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: What else?
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: yeah.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: So I had all of that which was really driving me and I still had this really deep meaning for purpose.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: I was like, right, what's my thing?
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: And I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: And that was always my vision, because I think every guy maybe not every guy, but at least for me I really wanted something.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: I really wanted that one thing that was going to drive me and I think deep down, we're all wanting that.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: I think we all want a purpose, something that's going to go big.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: And for me there were two things.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Well, one was I had a coffee with a chap who's, yeah, run several businesses now, and I was like, how do I find my purpose?
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: I want to find my purpose.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: And he told me honestly, mate, it will come.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: It will come to you, you just gotta continue doing.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: But what happened with me was, as soon as I let go of wanting to find something, it found me, and so I thought, okay, yeah, that makes so he said that right.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: he said that, okay, and I thought, okay, cool, so I let go of any idea of finding something.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: And then it was only then, when I was speaking to a guy at a meetup at this coffee place, and I go up to him and I can see he's looking at a book and he's reading a book on his phone and I'm saying, oh, what's that?
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: He said oh, no more, mr Nice Guy.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: I thought, oh, that's interesting.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: What is that he's like?
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's a book and it's completely changed my life.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: It's a game changer man, you have to get it.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: So I thought, oh, okay, I've got to get this.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: This sounds really cool.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: That sounds like something, because, bearing in mind everything we've discussed so far, I had no idea what the nice guy syndrome was.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Right, okay, I was just battling the symptoms, I was just, I was just working things out, I didn't have anything.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: If I'd found that book at the age of 19, then well, that would have been, but you might not been in the headspace for it, right?
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: So I always think that everything comes to you when you're ready.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: You know when the student's ready, the master appears I agree, and I found that in my plant medicine experiences as well, where it's like if I had the lessons more recently than I did two years ago, my brain wouldn't have been able to handle it.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: It was.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: It was too much.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: So I do really believe in that.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Now I read this book and I was oh wait, I'm the.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: I'm the nice guy.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: This is great.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: So all the answers came to me.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: I thought, oh, this is wonderful.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: And then it made sense, because then I could go deeper within my childhood story, which I hadn't really pieced together yet, and then start looking at the correlations.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: And then that's where I thought, okay, well, this is interesting.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: And what was happening was, before then I was working in recruitment and it was a cool job, you know.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: I learned some sales skills and it was a nice environment yeah however, yeah, still looking for that soul's calling.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: But what was happening was some of my friends were really struggling with their mental health and I really wanted to help them, but naturally work would take priority and I was just trying to figure things out by myself.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: And then eventually, when that job just kind of left I think now I kind of manifested it in the back of my mind, but out of the blue we just had a chat and decided it was no longer a fit.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Now I had this time to help my friends out.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: So I'm like okay, cool, let me get deep into your life and ask a question what made you feel as though it was your job to help your friends who were struggling mentally?
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: Because this is interesting is that a nice guy going oh, I've got to go and fix somebody.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know that's a really good question and, looking back on it, there was probably an element of that.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, I knew that you know, just with a change of some belief systems, that it could.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: It could help him.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I was also aware of like boundaries as well.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: And yeah, not to.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: I was just said look, if you want me to help you out, I've got this time on my hands, let's see how we go.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: And he said, oh, I feel bad, I feel like a burden.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't want you to.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not sure.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, well, look, just pay me for my time.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: You know, that way it's a value exchange and let's see how we go.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: And that ended up being really, really can I say that's the entrepreneur spirit kicking in straight away, paying me for my time.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: Then it's no waste of anybody's.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's seeing it as a value exchange and the nice guy usually he'll refrain from asking for stuff a lot of the time and the receiving aspects, which I'm sure we'll go into but that happened and we got really great results and I thought, okay, wow, okay, there could be something here.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: And then even my podcast guests some of them I thought, oh, do you want to take this deeper?
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Do you want to try this out?
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: And then I thought, oh, they're all nice guys.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: So then it's like okay, right, we can start creating a framework here to help nice guys just uncover or get rid of these layers of themselves and avoid making the same mistakes that I did, or get rid of these layers of themselves and avoid making the same mistakes that I did.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: So that's where the real purpose came, because I know that feeling like they're, they've achieved so much.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: And this is why, like before I start working with them, I'm always like, right, just tell me all your achievements and they'll give me these achievements.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: I'm like, hang on, you've done this, you've done this, you've done this.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: I knew you were telling me you're low in confidence and I just couldn't.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: And I could so relate to it because I've been there, I couldn't see.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: I couldn't see my worth for a long time right it's so funny because it's almost as if you're wired for something else rather than for seeing you know the gifts and qualities that you possess.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: You know, I I don't think that it's healthy to always feel as though you need validation from somebody, meaning like your grandma was the one who put you on her knee and just go oh well done, harrison, you're such a good boy, you've done brilliant today.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: You don't get that in life.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: You get sunshine, you get clouds, you get rain, you get thunderstorms.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: That's how it goes, and I think that finding a way to maintain a sense of steadiness in all of that is what the adult mind, not a child.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: I believe a child should be really looked after and nurtured, but when you become an adult, if that's the type of discipline you have to develop to step out of that, nice, the people pleasing I get validated, otherwise I'm not going to get acknowledged because you're not shown that as a child.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: You know I look at like some leaders in the world that make a big noise.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: That's because their child, in their childhood, they weren't validated.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: They said to make a big noise.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: You see the people going down the streets with big boom boxes, coming out their cars that annoying.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: But they're annoying because they weren't heard as a child.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: So if I speak up and I make more noise, then you'll see me.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: And this is where you reminded me, because I was never the naughty kid at school.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: I always paid attention, but I would do now and then I would do crazy stuff that got me into trouble.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: And now I see that I was just trying to be seen.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: There'd be this big events at the school and there'd be a microphone and I'd pick it up and I'd give a shout out to john cena.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: So I saw all this stuff and then just really random events.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: But in the classroom I was really well behaved, but there were these events where I just wanted someone to see me really funny and it's so funny, like when I was growing up.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: There's a guy in my, uh, in my year and he's always playing the joker the whole time, always like the whole time inside the class, outside the class.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: But that was to hide the pain feelings that he had that is a really interesting point, mainly because I noticed it was a big pattern in my behavior was just always making jokes, always making jokes.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: And then, because the ego is so strong, and this is what I'm really trying to how to break this down to people when you're in that belief system, because if you said to someone, oh, hang on, where did that come from?
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: If they make a comment about your clothes or about it, could be something very small, but if you just ask where did that come from?
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: And but because the ego is so strong, like in my instance, it was like, oh, no, hang on, say I'm just, I'm just me, it's just part of my personality and, like you were saying, we've all got a childlike aspect to us.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: However, there's still like there's going to be discernment, there's going to be a time and place and if you're always making jokes, always making these comments and this is why, when you look back at your journey, I look back and in the time of the nice guy, I thought why doesn't anyone like me understand me?
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: Well, there's a couple reasons, one of them being that imperfect people are attracted to imperfection.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: So that way, if you're always trying to be, you know perfect, which is a whole other subject then they're going to see through that and you're going to attract inauthentic relationships.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: Now there's another element to that as well, where, if you're constantly just going, going, going and you're sort of in the zone and you're, you've got this belief system and no one challenges you, you're going to think that you're the good guy, you're all the nice guy right.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: And now, looking back, I think, okay, I can understand why people didn't gravitate towards me.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: Because I was.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: I'd make these little jokes, I would make these little jibes at people and it would be, it'd be rude, right.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, because the energy that you're giving off is like becoming.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: It's like you're demagnetizing people in.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: You always find that that when you see people laughing in a room, everyone looks over.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: Do you know why?
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: Because joy is our normal set point.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: Having fun and feeling good is our normal set point.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: So when someone's looking over and they're people are laughing in the airport or something people are I want some of that.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: That's our normal thing.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: So we attract those things, but we also repel things, and I think that when you understand energy, you realize that there are no victims here.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: They're only creators, and you're either attracting experiences or you're repelling experiences.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: And I think the nice guy syndrome repels authentic relationships.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: It repels fantastic, intimate relationships big time, big time, and that was such a big part of my journey.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: Right, we talked about friendships, but in a romantic setting setting as well, yeah, and what happens is, even though you learn the lessons from the nice guy mask, sometimes you can move into a completely different mask where you're just shut off from the world.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: And we talked about the layers where I built up so many layers to avoid getting hurt again.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: Right, it's layers of the ego, because, yeah, no, I don't want to get hurt, I want to push people away.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: So what happened was right, it was very sort of, yeah, fleeting relationships never really commit to anything, was just having fun playing the field.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: But what happened was I was using that, this sort of work hard, play hard mentality, and for me it worked.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: At the time I thought, okay, life's good, yeah, still looking for external validation from women, like it was the ultimate source of my approval.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: So what I would do?
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: I would see multiple women, and then that way I could never, I could never get hurt.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: My ego was just protected because I was always seeking that.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: And then this is the power of the belief system.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: You don't realize that you're chasing a feeling for me.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: I just thought I just love female company, like nothing wrong with that.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: It's like no, you're chasing a feeling.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: But what happened was I eventually met someone who was different.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: It felt like more of a genuine connection.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: It was like wow, like this could be something different here.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: And what was happening was we were seeing each other a bit but I wasn't ready to let her in.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: I built up so many layers of my ego, it just didn't work out.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: So eventually that really got me thinking.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: It was like hang on a sec.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: The first time I've got somewhat of a genuine connection, someone actually likes me for me, yeah there's a really interesting quote.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: Let me pull it off your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within you that you have built against it.
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: It's basically like saying that we, we literally put so many walls up in.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: The ultimate spiritual reflection you can ever have is an intimate relationship and I think I imagine that goes not just for that aspect, but also just any, any aspect of life.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: I feel like we're all going to receive something, but it's our blocks, our own internal blocks, that stop us from receiving it.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: So this is why, doing the work so important in my journey, when that incident happened, I thought something's got to change, because I've I've been having fun for, you know, since the age of 15.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: Now I kind of want something a bit more.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: I crave that deeper connection.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: Comes to the responsibility piece.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: Again, I thought I've got to change an aspect of myself.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: So then that's why I thought, okay, right, what would I want in an ideal partner?
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, and then I listed the attributes you know calming, presence, understanding, empathetic.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: I thought okay, and then I looked my own behavior and I thought, okay, you know what?
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: I need to start embodying more of these, because it's like the thing is, you want to attract the right partner, you better be that, that version that magnetizes it in, because everyone in truth is reflection, whether we like it or not, and even the difficult people that we have in our life are mirrors to show us.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, maybe I have that sort of thing within me myself that maybe I need to look at.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: And you know, I remember once having a really difficult neighbor and I was thinking, god, why is he so challenging?
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: And I remember thinking to myself have I had that behavior within me as well?
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: and I thought to myself if I look deep enough, maybe I do so.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: Then I looked at that, addressed it, cleaned it up.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: Really interesting.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: We don't want to admit our faults, we don't want to admit our poor behavior, we don't want to admit our downfalls because we want to see that we're perfect.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: But the truth is we're beautiful, imperfect, like that Japanese thing.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: You know where they break all the bits and glue it up.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: That's what makes us relatable oh, and you've.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: You've sparked something inside me which is a debate I've sort of thrown about in my head for a while.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: Which is okay?
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: Which elements of yourself do you necessarily say need work on for lack of a better term or which parts are just you as a person, and there's so much depth to that?
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: I wonder if it's just a case, or which parts are just you as a person and there's so much depth to that.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: I wonder if it's just a case of okay, which parts of me do I want to keep or not?
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, I love that.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, so in closing, this is a riveting conversation.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: I love speaking to you, harrison, but in closing, for people who recognize they may have a nice guy or a nice girl syndrome, what would you say are perhaps the first things that they need to do in order to stop that self-sabotage, to stop that type of behavior and start moving in and leaning into the best version of themselves?
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: I think the first one is awareness, awareness of your patterns.
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: Surround yourself with good people who will call you out.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: I like to say, call you forward, people who will call you forward into stepping into a better version of yourself, and then from there, you can also have responsibility.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: I think, having responsibility for your life, for your actions, for everything, even if you think, oh, this person did this, but oh, come on, did you not see what this person did doesn't matter.
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: Take responsibility, because that's the only way your life is going to change.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: No one else is going to change your life for you, only you are.
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: So responsibility and then action.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: I think you've got to take action so what sort of actions could they take?
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: I've got one, but I want you know you've you're well experienced about this, so what sort of actions could they take?
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: I would get very clear on sort of who you want to become and then take actions towards that.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: So it's very simple maybe you want to be more confident, you want to respect your own boundaries.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, we mentioned before testing it out on people taking small steps.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, noticing again, like everything's links, and noticing, with the awareness piece, I think, also just showing up for yourself just every day.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: If you say you're going to do something, then do it, because that way, when you keep your word to yourself, you build up so much self-love over time and then you stop looking gradually for this external approval because you've become proud of the person you've become.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: So I think action is an important piece.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: I'm intrigued to hear what your one was okay.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: So I really like what you just said is what, when you keep your word to yourself, your mind is listening.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: Your subconscious mind's always listening.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: So if harrison does what he says he's going to do, or julia or john does what he says they said they were going to do, the mind listens and goes right, believe you're gonna keep doing that.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: So that behavior Creates confidence, right, and then that external validation what you don't need it, but it comes because you do what you say you're gonna do.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: People are respect and trust you, so then they naturally want to start listening because you do what you say you're gonna do and follow through.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: I think one of the things that made me become less of a yes person and what you say you're going to follow through I think one of the things that made me become less of a yes person and more kind rather than nice, which was to myself more than anything else, which was I under promised and over delivered, and what I mean by that is I used to be the worst for this, but I said you know I'll be there in 20 minutes, but really I was there in 30 minutes and for the whole of those 30 minutes I was stressing and so I was like oh God, why am I?
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: Why am I promising that I'm going to be there in 20 minutes where I'm not really going to make it?
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: And the reason being is because I thought I don't know what I was thinking, but I thought that's what I should do.
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: You know, like I want to make them feel that I'm going to be close but I'm not going to be, and so that entire anxiety and stress of pushing against time made me feel so uncomfortable so I actually did the opposite.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: So instead of saying I was going to be there in the amount of time in 30 minutes I said said I'll be there in 45.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: And so when I turned up at 30, you're early.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: I was like and so that whole time gave me leeway, gave me freedom, gave me space, gave me more time for my life to do whatever I wanted to do.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: And I was like wow, I feel good.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: So now, when it came to my family, which was I was always the person that was like I feel good.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: So now, when it came to my family, which was I was always the person that was like I'm gonna be late or whatever.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: They were like oh, you're early, oh, that's good, you know.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: And so everyone started to build up this different, uh, new perspective or new identity of how James showed up in the world.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'll tell you what gave me an astronomical amount of confidence, friskiness what I mean like fun.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: You know, like I was like, yeah, of course I'm early.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: You, what gave me an astronomical amount of confidence, friskiness what I mean like fun.
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: You know, like I was like, yeah, of course I'm early.
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean, and so it's just.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: I just felt, so I don't know, happy with myself because I put all that stress away, I'd stopped needing to be nice and I'd given myself extra time.
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: And I think that's really important Give yourself extra time.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: You spoke to my younger self there.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: It's such a big one, always always late, stuff, always stressing, and again, this is why it goes.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: It goes so deep sometimes.
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you don't even realize you're people pleasing.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: Classic scenario was.
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: I mentioned this one because it always happened to me.
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: I'd be.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: Let's say we went for a coffee.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: Let's say I've got a say I've got to be done by 1 pm on the spot, and it goes to 12.58.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: And I'm there, I'm getting a bit anxious.
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: 12.59, then it's one Okay.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: And then what the kind person would do, even if I'm really interested in what you're going to say, I'm going to say Jamesames, I'm so sorry, I've really got to go.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: Let's continue this conversation next time.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: But what I would do is I'd go okay, it's 101, okay, shit.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: And then it's like 103 and I'd be like and it's just so inauthentic, and they can tell and it's rude, you think you're being nice, you're using niceness to avoid the rejection and the fear that you don't get approval, but they tell, they can tell your body language that you want to go.
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: So what's the kind of thing to do?
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: It's by being upfront and honest, even though there's this sense of discomfort which is usually just the mind anyway.
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: In fact, the most important thing is authenticity and owning it.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: I remember once I had a boss years ago.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: I really liked him because he was so authentic and he owned his like bad habits, right.
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: He said, look, I've got a foul mouth, I'm often very rude, but I do this extremely well.
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: And he'd say that in front of clients and I remember laughing so much.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: I was like that's exactly what he's like, laughing so much I was like that's exactly what he's like.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: But I loved that, like saying, look, I'm not perfect, I do speak like that, I am pretty rude, but you are going to get an excellent service.
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: And he always delivered.
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: And people really liked him because he was like that, because he owned his stuff.
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: And I think that when you're nice, you don't want to own stuff.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: When you're nice, you don't want to own any of your imperfections.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: When you're nice, you don't want to own stuff.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: When you're nice, you don't want to own any of your imperfections.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: When you're nice, you're always looking for someone to go.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: Well, well done.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: don't want that and how freeing, how freeing is that?
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: Just put it out there, you know, almost like that disarms it, that disarms the discomfort, saying hey, I'm gonna be this way.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: I think that's so powerful and again, like just small steps you can take right, if you're, if you've got a trusted friend, a partner, a coach, whatever it may be, tell them for this week I'm going to put myself first.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: And this is a big step in the nice guy recovery.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: Just tell someone I'm going to put myself first.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: It might be uncomfortable, you might not like it, but let's just see how it goes and then you'll see just how much more peaceful life can get.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: I bet there's an absolute direct correlation between your heart health and heart disease.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: From people who are nice to people who are authentic and own it, I bet there is a massive correlation.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: If you go to hospitals you wouldn't probably be able to diagnose it or find out, but I'm pretty sure on an energetic level, the people that are always saying yes, the people who are people pleasing, they, have a shorter lifespan oh yeah, I 100% make sense to me and I think that this conversation and you, you know what you've been talking about the nice guy syndrome and trying to step out of that potential identity and creating an empowered identity, I think could save lives, can make your life number one more fun, but number two, you know, you leave all that stress and anxiety away.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: And when you show up as a better person for yourself, that's going to have a ripple effect.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: You're going to then inspire more people because when you're authentic, when you're spreading your light, okay cool.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: Some people will outwardly maybe project their own insecurities, but secretly, what's going on?
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: You're planting a seed and you're inspiring people, whether they admit it or not.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: So I think that's extra motivation that you can create this wonderful life for yourself, but then also for the people around you as well, and your relationships will get so, so, so much better.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: And there's nothing more powerful than meeting someone and they just love you and accept you for who you are, behind all the masks.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: And that's what happened when I met my current girlfriend.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: When I first met her, she could see beneath all of this and it was like I was speaking to her soul.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: Suddenly, it wasn't about the external look anymore.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: I could talk and I wasn't being interrupted.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: She was actually listening, actually listening to every word I had to say, and I thought you know what?
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: I haven't felt that in my life before and that is so healing.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: So I think, if you can get to that point even beforehand just learning to be vulnerable in front of safe men and learning to be loved and accepted.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: That's been such a an important moment, not just in my journey, but in my clients as well.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: That's the.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: That's the goal, I think just be loved and accepted for who you are.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: And you can only do that when you get rid of the masks and step into fear amazing, amazing.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: Harrison, thank you so much for being on the show.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: If you haven't listened to harrison's podcast, he's got the growth voyage podcast go and listen to it.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna have all the links to connect with harrison below, but thank you so much, harrison.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, james, appreciate you.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: Thanks for tuning into the show and if you enjoyed it, please remember to follow rate and share it with someone who'd love it too.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: Until the next time, wishing you green lights ahead.