Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Dream Interpretation With Pam Muller (Sweet Georgia Pam) | The Christian Reeve Podcast #179

Transcript

Dream Interpretation With Pam Muller (Sweet Georgia Pam) | The Christian Reeve Podcast #179 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

0:00
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian read
0:03
podcast. Today's guest is a spiritual
0:05
director and dream coach all the way from Atlanta Georgia in the
0:08
United States and name is Pam, Miller, aka Sweet, Georgia
0:13
Brown. Welcome to the show.
0:14
How you doing? I'm good.
0:16
Sweet, Georgia, Pam. She's was Pam.
0:19
Oh my mistake, but it's catchy like that, right?
0:24
Just just before off camera. I was just saying like how
0:27
things can go wrong, like this whole week.
0:30
Check this. Okay, just to Sidetrack.
0:32
So this this episode is going to be all about dreams and we're
0:35
going to it's going to be part of a series that I'm doing on
0:38
dreams funnily enough and we'll get we'll get into that detail.
0:40
I just want to say 45 minutes this week has just been one of I
0:45
don't know the craziest weeks for me.
0:47
Are they for people that are into like spiritual stuff?
0:50
You know you often talk about you hear about people saying
0:52
things like it's Mercury in retrograde and stuff like that.
0:55
I truly believe it because everything that could go wrong
0:57
this week has gone wrong. When does it end?
1:03
Yeah, so anyway, Sweet, Georgia, Pam, Pamela, welcome to the
1:08
show. There's a lot of ways we could
1:11
jump into this. I think the first thing I want
1:13
to do is just ask whether nickname comes from the story
1:15
behind the name. Oh, you know, I wish it was a
1:18
really Grand Story. It's not really. - I feel like I
1:25
should make up a really great story, but it's pretty, it's
1:28
pretty straightforward. You know, I started a practice
1:32
of dream interpretation for people and when I became a train
1:36
spiritual director, which is sort of weird dreams, led me to,
1:41
it was, you know, the next step was to start a private practice,
1:45
so that I could do this professionally and begin carving
1:47
out a career for myself. And I mean, it is a little, a
1:54
little Our tool because my dad had passed away quite suddenly
1:59
seven and a half years ago and he didn't get to see the my
2:05
graduation from the spiritual Direction training program which
2:08
was for me that to me that felt like my Master's Degree.
2:11
I was like this is where this is where my life is going.
2:14
And so I was journaling one day kind of doing a little bit of
2:19
open dialogue, you know, with the unconscious of like, where's
2:23
this going? What do I feel like that And I
2:25
was journaling something entirely different and the
2:28
phrase, Sweet Georgia. Pam popped up just it just
2:31
occurred and I wrote it out and I was like oh well I could get
2:36
behind that and so it just immediately became the Persona
2:41
that I could step into and do the work I wanted to do while
2:44
keeping my you know, personal life personal I can I can pull
2:47
Pam Miller out of Sweet, Georgia medium and keep those things
2:51
compartmentalized but I didn't go into it trying to come up
2:54
with that it Occurred. So for me, it was kind of the
2:58
first thing that my dad gave me after he passed on if I'm being
3:01
honest. First of all, my condolences
3:06
secondly I find this quite interesting.
3:07
I mean the concept of keeping your private life and
3:10
professional life, separate is obviously the case of will do
3:13
that but I'm intrigued because a lot of the time especially with
3:18
a role like this, you'd expect someone to kind of bring a lot
3:21
of themselves into it, you know, a lot of the time, our work,
3:24
what we're passionate about is us, it's part of, you know, I'd
3:28
identity. So who is Sweet Georgia Brown.
3:33
Patton. God, I did it again.
3:36
Who is okay? Yeah, and who is Pamela?
3:39
What's the difference? Yeah, well for me.
3:42
So, what's as I was doing that, the work to learn the craft of
3:47
sitting with people and spiritual director.
3:48
Because when I went into dream interpretation, and I started
3:53
following that Curiosity of, like, hmm, I really want to help
3:56
people understand what I know about dreams, which is that
3:59
there are these metaphorical images of where you are in your
4:01
life and They can really help you face your things that you're
4:05
not facing. So I wanted to help people do
4:07
that level of inner work and when I was when I was following
4:11
dream interpretation, It was a fun party trick, and as an
4:18
empath, I'm an empath, I'm highly sensitive.
4:20
I get easily over over stimulated and overwhelm even
4:24
when I'm happy. So, I grew up with a lot of
4:29
social anxiety. A lot of like, you know, my
4:33
friends protected were like, hands, just so fragile.
4:35
We kind of have to protect her. And, you know, when she's ready
4:38
to leave. We have to help her find her
4:40
like boundaries and all of that. And as I did my training through
4:44
dream work and then into spiritual Direction.
4:46
What I learned in the spiritual Direction program is how to hold
4:50
a safe container for people to share their deepest.
4:54
Vulnerable things while, not getting pulled into that
4:58
container with them. And so I started to learn what
5:03
it meant to keep myself from getting drawn into and become
5:07
responsible for people's stuff. So when I wanted to start the
5:14
business, first name last name.com was like the new thing.
5:20
Everybody is doing that, right? Its first thing last name.com
5:23
and I did that too. And when I set it up, it just
5:28
felt like too much of me. And I wasn't going to be able to
5:32
pull myself out and be able to hold the safe space for people,
5:35
that's what they need. They need a professional who's
5:38
willing to take their dreams seriously with them and and be
5:42
able to hold still for whatever comes up.
5:45
I think that was a way deeper answer than maybe you were
5:47
looking for. So no.
5:49
No. It also became true that being
5:53
able to step into Sweet, Georgia, Pam is less about me
5:56
and more about the people that come to me with their interests
6:01
at that. I pique their curiosity.
6:03
So I can show up and meet them where they are.
6:07
I absolutely want the Deep answers like this.
6:09
This is what I live for this is this is yeah, yeah, yeah, this
6:13
is the type of conversations. I like to have in real life.
6:16
This is what I want this show to be, you know, like this then
6:20
every episode is obviously different.
6:21
I sometimes you have just interview style episode and
6:24
sometimes you get great discussions like this.
6:26
And I was really excited in the run-up to this because I just
6:29
have so many questions. And I think dreams in general is
6:35
a kind of like a fascinating Area of study because there's a
6:40
lot of information online about it, in studies, Etc.
6:43
But we still also don't know, there's a lot, we don't know and
6:50
you know, it's like anything else in science Expose and
6:53
psychology Etc. It's like there's a lot that we
6:56
can sort of There's things we can say, okay, this is
6:59
definitely a man. There's things that we can say.
7:01
I'm this is negotiable, okay? For example, just a random
7:05
thing, right? I get the dream of losing teeth
7:10
quite a lot, right? And I've seen maybe like, 11
7:13
different interpretations, some of them are like outlandish and
7:18
then there's like three or four that are like, yeah, it could be
7:20
that. And I always just thought it
7:22
meant, like loss of control, maybe a vanity thing.
7:29
But more probably like the connection of yeah, like wanting
7:34
to have control over things and that's like a while, if this
7:38
thing's falling out of your head.
7:39
Then there's not good. It's terrifying.
7:43
It's terrifying. Yeah, I'm glad you started with
7:45
teeth falling out because it really is a good example, of the
7:50
way Dream Work is, in my mind, supposed to work or four people,
7:55
right? So the steps that I kind of go
7:58
through with this and I always, I had to learn to trust the
8:03
intuitive piece. I had to learn to trust the
8:05
skill set that I have because I never know what dreams me,
8:09
neither when somebody brings it to me, I'm like, oh what's that
8:13
one going to mean like where we going to go with that?
8:15
So a little bit, I have developed a knowledge base of in
8:21
general. These are the things that come
8:23
up when we talk about losing your teeth and dreams.
8:26
When I first started out, I thought where's the source?
8:30
Who has the best dictionary, who's going to always tell me
8:33
exactly what the symbol represents, but, but it's not
8:36
that it's more artistic than that.
8:39
So, so here's the deal. So you brainstorm, you go to all
8:45
your resources, you Google, you talk to your friends, you look
8:49
it up, you all the things and you come up with a big
8:52
collection and then you're supposed to tune in to what's
8:56
resonating for you, because dreams are from you to you, and
9:00
For you. So your teeth falling out dream
9:05
might mean more about vanity or more about your financial
9:11
security. And the dream is actually way
9:16
more brilliant than that. Than just a definition like
9:20
drinking. Mine doesn't go.
9:22
No the dream dictionaries. It's this one.
9:24
Plus this one equals this dream. Your dreams going to even give
9:28
you Clues inside the dream. So once you figure out, okay,
9:31
for me this teeth falling out, it does feel like a financial
9:34
concern because I was looking at my finances earlier in the week.
9:38
It's been bothering me, but I really haven't carved out any
9:40
time to address that, so then you go.
9:43
Okay. Well, what's the commentary that
9:45
this dream is making on my financial concerns?
9:47
So you would look to tell me more about the experience of
9:51
your teeth falling out in this dream.
9:54
So maybe in this dream, your teeth were falling out while you
9:58
were in a public place as opposed to your teeth falling
10:02
out when you're standing in your bathroom.
10:05
So it can its dreams are layered in there.
10:08
Me and they're actually way more rich and way more personalized
10:13
Than People realize. Okay.
10:17
God to send me questions, or is this a dream?
10:46
Is if I'm going for like, an anxious period in my life, why?
10:50
There's just a lot of stuff going on or incidentally.
10:55
And I covered this in one of my earlier episode.
10:58
So for whoever is keeping up to date with the podcast or is new
11:03
to the podcast, make sure you check out some of the episodes
11:06
in this sleep and dream series. As I spoke about how whenever
11:12
I've gone like drinking, or if I disturb my sleep, And in some
11:17
way I can do do anything like that.
11:20
Even just a little bit gradual, suddenly, like, wild dreams,
11:25
just just really weird vivid dreams.
11:29
And I don't really get nightmares as such.
11:32
But I do kind of get like horror e, kind of moments.
11:37
The only the only dream and this is obviously connected with
11:41
because I suffer from sleep paralysis and sleep apnea and
11:45
wow. Yeah.
11:46
And I was interested to get your take on this.
11:49
So I always have this recurring dream, every time it happens
11:53
that I'm like in my bed or wherever I'm sleeping, and I'm
11:59
dreaming that I'm there's, and it's kind of like it used to be
12:03
that. I didn't know if I was dreaming
12:04
or not. And now I know that I am
12:06
dreaming and it's kind of, my brain has created a re-creation
12:10
of my room and me in it. And then I'm then struggling to
12:15
wake up. From that dream.
12:18
So, like, you are standing beside yourself?
12:22
No, not even. It's kind of like, what is?
12:25
I am looking at myself but not like presiding of myself.
12:30
Like I don't know if I was just behind myself or something.
12:34
Yeah, okay. Alright, so to get a little bit
12:36
more clear than what you're saying is like you're sort of
12:38
business presence in the room. Yeah, we are seeing yourself.
12:44
Yes, sleeping. Yeah, well so we could of
12:48
myself. Yeah.
12:53
There's yeah you're right there. So many different ways we could
12:56
go um because I want to back up a little bit.
12:59
I do want to talk about this piece but I want to back up a
13:00
little bit and talk about the idea of substances affecting the
13:06
dream state and you know, messing with your sleep schedule
13:10
and things that you eat late at night right before you go to
13:13
sleep, right? So there has been some dream
13:14
research and they have proven that.
13:16
Those can elicit more bizarre dreams or more, you know?
13:22
More Vivid dreaming States, or more shorter drinks, or whatever
13:25
it happens to be, I don't remember in the moment what the
13:28
specifics of that are but it would drive me crazy because
13:33
when I first got into dream work, as a young adult, my
13:37
parents trying to be very supportive, wanted to show like,
13:41
oh, tell us what our Dream means.
13:43
You know, they really didn't want to know.
13:45
They, they were just trying to support their daughter, right?
13:47
They didn't want some deep truth.
13:49
We weren't sitting down. They were like please don't you
13:53
know so my dad would always like come at me go.
13:57
Okay Pam I had this dream and I'm okay Dad and he would tell
14:01
me the most amazing like Rich symbol dreamed of that and
14:06
before I could say anything, he goes, but I ate pizza right at
14:11
the end right before I went to sleep, I'm sure that what it,
14:13
that's what it was and he would walk away.
14:18
Wait. So it's true but also so it.
14:23
So the substances can have a funhouse mirror effect on your
14:27
dreams. Right?
14:28
So the bizarre can become exaggerated, but what's true is
14:34
your unconscious mind still uses symbols and imagery and all of
14:40
those things to reflect what it is that is under the surface
14:44
that you're processing or that some emotion that's stuck or
14:47
something that But you still need help untangling some issue.
14:51
So if people still want to explore those dreams, we can I
14:57
just want to give people their, please don't dismiss them as
15:00
useless because even if you just say I had a dream of a great
15:04
chair, we can work with that like this symbol is what's
15:07
important? That came from your own mind.
15:10
Hmm. So that's the first piece as I
15:13
this you know because dreams are layered in there.
15:18
Meaning I personally it willing to go as deep as somebody wants
15:22
to go. And I'm often way ahead of them
15:24
and they don't want to go that deep.
15:26
So I've had to learn how to like turn off my oh cool.
15:30
Yeah, that was just inside your, right?
15:32
Sure. It was just about that and
15:34
doesn't have any more wisdom for you, you know.
15:37
So that's that's like I just want to say that like that, that
15:41
they always have something to say if you care to look Put that
15:47
in a box and set it aside. You hit a hot button there for
15:51
me, so the sleep paralysis. Is that I want to, I want to
16:00
talk a little bit about about that piece, but is that when you
16:05
have the recurring dream of your body lying in the bed asleep or
16:10
dead, it happens just before I'm due to wake up.
16:13
So I've noticed this really weird.
16:16
Yeah. Whenever I dream and I don't
16:19
know if this is the same for everyone and this not just for
16:21
sleep paralysis but just dreams in general.
16:24
I've always noticed that I dreamed just before I wake up.
16:27
which I guess is my brain is kind of You know, it's because
16:34
it's not REM anymore and that's supposed to be where you want.
16:37
Maybe is. I don't know.
16:38
That's where you're supposed to dream is during re yes.
16:40
So, so what they found is that REM sleep is when you have the
16:44
most story like dreams, okay? But it's not, the only time
16:48
you're in the dream, state, getting images images.
16:52
When you are about to, when you're in that secondary sleep
16:56
stage or whatever, which is, you know, you're sort of you've
16:59
actually drifted off to sleep, but just barely or you're about
17:01
to wake up. You have more Flash images, like
17:06
more Snippets of dreams will show up.
17:10
And usually, recall is better during that time because you're
17:13
closest to the dream state. At that time, it's definitely
17:18
with recurring dreams. Your mind is sort of picked up.
17:21
A habit of this is where we go right?
17:24
Before we wake up or your a your specially if you have that
17:29
experience of sleep paralysis, which You know, is that is that
17:36
miscommunication between waking State and sleeping state?
17:39
Where the muscles large muscles are still paralyzed, right?
17:43
And if you're if you're used to having that state or not used
17:48
to, but if that occurred has occurred to you, then you have
17:50
the experience of what the dream is showing you, which is being
17:55
asleep and awake sort of at the same time.
17:58
Now so so that's what I would would look at that piece as like
18:05
preparation for experiencing like remember we're asleep here
18:09
we are asleep now because you know this this is a dream and
18:12
then and then you wake up. So maybe it's your unconscious
18:15
mind trying to help you fix that for yourself.
18:18
Are you saying? Are you saying?
18:20
No? Because it's not her because
18:22
it's wild All of the above. Yeah, yeah, I love it.
18:29
Okay. I mean I've been having it since
18:30
I was like Nine years old. Mmm.
18:35
It's like I realized, probably like three four years into that
18:40
occurring. Okay, we have sleep paralysis,
18:42
great, but then it's like, it sounds It can be, but to be
18:52
honest, for me, it's not so much.
18:53
I mean, it's not great when it happens.
18:56
I think my biggest worry and this is how I discovered that I
18:59
have like acute sleep. Apnea is that, if I panic in
19:03
that state, I can sometimes stop breathing and that's worrying
19:08
because that happens quite frequently and after kind of,
19:12
mmm, calm myself. And then like, for instance,
19:15
most recently, and I mentioned this in the last episode,
19:20
Incidentally, normally it just affects that my upper body but
19:22
this time like my legs felt like I couldn't move my legs or
19:26
there's something like that and I was desperately trying to
19:28
shake them and in my content sort of like semi-conscious
19:32
State, I know like I need to keep doing this because this
19:34
jolting action will wake me up. I know that this is that, that
19:38
and that's the weird thing. This only happened, maybe like a
19:41
few years back where I realized I can control myself in that
19:45
state because I'm consciously aware this It's really weird.
19:50
But, yeah, I've seen information online that says that, like,
19:54
sleeping on your side helps and it does, I've only ever had this
19:58
the night hag experience once, and it was when I was abroad and
20:02
I was sleeping on like a So, very uncomfortable, sofa as
20:08
wild, man. It's like something out of the
20:10
ring. I'm saying, I've never had it.
20:14
It sounds. It sounds really terrifying.
20:17
It depends. It can be, but a lot of the
20:19
time, it's just good. I'm glad to hear of a different
20:22
experience and kind of somebody who's experienced it for a long
20:25
time, although, I'm sorry that you have had that experience.
20:31
Yeah. Yeah.
20:37
Well we've what we've already explored some dreams.
20:40
Can you give us like sort of a general kind of rundown of the
20:43
meanings of some of the most popular dreams.
20:45
So let's start back with with the to the teeth tree.
20:49
What does that generally mean? Yeah, so there's a couple of
20:54
things. I think that you hit it with.
20:58
Vanity. I mean, I think there's a there.
21:00
It's how we feel we are being perceived in the world because
21:05
it's the part. So the other pieces Financial, I
21:08
know, I mentioned Financial, which is a really funny kind of
21:12
connection. Yeah.
21:13
What is the connection that is that like supposed to represent
21:16
money that's supposed to represent concerns of financial
21:20
structure? So the bones of our body are our
21:23
structure that holds us up in the teeth over bones.
21:26
Let you go. So So that's why it gets into
21:30
our structure. Yeah.
21:34
And you know, it's so funny. I continue to get humbled by
21:38
dream work and I struggle to call myself a dream expert, but
21:42
it's what people understand and it's how I meet people wherever
21:44
they are, right? But I don't know.
21:46
All the things I don't think of all the things in the moment,
21:49
and I posted a tick, tock about teeth and dreams, and here are
21:52
the things that could mean, and I thought I was, but it was
21:55
like, this is so smart and it was Very helpful and then
21:59
somebody commented and was like, I thought I was just grinding my
22:02
teeth at night and I was like, yeah, for sure.
22:10
Be it, because Bobby signals are definitely coming through in
22:13
your conscious in the state, right?
22:15
So anxiety, you're grinding your teeth.
22:18
You have a dream of your teeth falling out.
22:21
You would you mentioned earlier? Obviously there's a lot of like
22:24
dream research. So I guess my question is like
22:27
to fold like firstly how does one study the meaning of dreams?
22:33
Like obviously you can study the body's reaction, you know, you
22:37
can study. I don't know the chemicals in
22:39
the body that occur during various states to sleep cycle.
22:42
Etc. But like, how can you actually
22:45
study dreams and then begin to like interpret them?
22:51
Oh, you're so, you're asking two questions.
22:54
One is, how do you research dreams, right for the meeting.
22:57
The research portion of it. It's actually really
23:01
interesting. There is an International
23:02
Association for the study of dreams.
23:06
I think it's their website. A s dream dot-org, and they have
23:11
compiled all of the books that have been written and all of the
23:15
articles that are coming out and any new research that's coming
23:18
out, all of that gets compiled into this big thing.
23:21
Thank organization that has the has a bunch of resources but for
23:27
somebody who is in school who really wants to study the
23:30
psychology of dreaming and what it means there is what they do
23:36
is they collect anecdotal stories of people's dreams but
23:41
they collect them in Mass so that they can go through and
23:44
scan for certain words or certain symbols or certain you
23:49
know data points. And then they collect, you know,
23:53
age of the person, gender person location, all of those different
23:57
and they end up with this huge database.
24:02
About people's dreams the other place that they collect dreams
24:06
as in sleep studies sometimes they can.
24:09
They'll perform a study where they wake somebody up in the
24:12
middle of the night. When they notice their own rooms
24:13
sleep, they'll wake them up and go, what's happening?
24:15
What were you dreaming about? Okay, so that's how that's how
24:21
they sort of collect the dream reports in order to be able to
24:26
study the meaning. So what was going on in your
24:29
life? What feels significant, those
24:30
kinds of things interesting. Sighs y'all.
24:36
I'm so glad I'm doing this show. There was a guy that I saw when
24:41
I was out working yesterday and he was the spitting image of now
24:47
you, you will know what I'm talking about, but not everyone
24:49
at home, will know what I'm talking about.
24:51
There's like this particular face that shows up in a lot of
24:56
dreams and it's a man's face, but it's like heavy very heavy,
25:02
set like eyebrows. I was like, very dark and the
25:08
images everywhere. And so many people have seen
25:10
this man's face in their dreams. And I remember walking past this
25:14
guy, and I was just like tidying because I work in a bar, and I
25:17
was just like, tidying, the outside of the place, and I was
25:19
just like that guy. He's rude.
25:22
Right? Anyway, bring it to our
25:26
conversation about dreams. What do you make of that?
25:29
Like what's the purpose of seeing this this face?
25:34
And And how like, what what's the purpose there?
25:37
Why we see this face? There's the psychology and then
25:43
there's the sort of archetypal energy idea of it.
25:49
So here's what comes up for me. First, there is and there is you
26:01
know General phase symmetry. Okay.
26:04
We collectively see as beautiful, right?
26:08
So there Are certain character traits that we as a species are
26:14
drawn towards or are can make sense of and are attracted to
26:20
right. Okay.
26:21
So, so my sort of the psychology behind it is that this
26:25
particular face has a collection of features that Taps into our
26:33
sort of cellular makeup of what were drawn towards.
26:40
How's that for a try? I tried to blow them.
26:44
That's my that's my take on it. Is that there's this.
26:47
There's the collective. The collective features.
26:51
Okay, so that's that. So then there's this like
26:54
archetypal energy or we were piece of it.
26:56
A lot of times and remark people are like that's to move for me,
27:00
don't go, you know, into that space But energetically once
27:06
one, you know. Oh God.
27:08
Okay. You know the thing about
27:13
chimpanzees on different sides of the world where one when
27:17
they're studying we're going to mess this up so bad.
27:20
This is my simplistic brain and not being able to put words
27:23
together when 11 champ figures out a tool, how to use a tool
27:29
and teaches the other monkey. Suddenly another Chimp in
27:31
another part of the world figures out the tool and teaches
27:34
other, the other monkey's how to use it and there's this like
27:37
Collective energy imprint So that's where my, that's where
27:43
that's where the woo enters in. For me, it's archetypal energy.
27:46
Which is what Carl Jung talks about, Oda?
27:51
Hey, when you say Collective energy, do you mean like
27:55
Connected Consciousness in the sense that because that one
27:58
chimpanzee figure that stuff out suddenly then another chimpanzee
28:02
in another part of the world can do so because they're wired into
28:05
the same Collective Consciousness, it's okay.
28:09
It's yes, it's are connected, psyche, it's the Matrix man.
28:14
It's the Matrix. Yes, the human Collective
28:17
Consciousness yet, for people that follow me, I would say that
28:23
I'm quite a normal guy. I would say, artistic guy,
28:27
creative guy, right? But I have my strange beliefs
28:31
and I always keep an open mind. I come from a scientific
28:35
background, but when I was living abroad in Estonia, I was
28:40
kind of exposed to a lot of different things.
28:42
From a spiritual perspective. It kind of opened my eyes about
28:45
a lot of different things. I still question everything, I
28:48
don't take everything on face value and I'm always questioning
28:50
it, but I do. Wonder a lot about these things
28:55
and I go back and forth all the time and that idea right there.
29:02
I believe it is funny because me and my Dad.
29:07
We're not like clothes clothes that we don't grow like together
29:10
or anything. But we've both independently
29:14
come to the same conclusions about our belief of how the
29:17
universe is everything works. And it's funny because that his
29:21
sit me down and he'll start talking like, oh, this is what I
29:23
believe. And he said, he said the line
29:25
whole, I believe that existence is always he said, Collective
29:30
consciousness Is expressed in an individualized way, right?
29:36
And I was like, yeah that's what I believe to and he was just you
29:40
know I mean he just plays off like yeah.
29:42
Okay. But it's interesting to me that
29:45
we've come to that same conclusion.
29:46
Having never spoken about it, you know.
29:49
No one talked about it. But no, I mean you believe what
29:53
you want to believe in life and Everyone's entitled to that.
29:56
But I will say that on a lot of this stuff, it always comes back
30:00
to the bigger. Just like, what's the purpose?
30:02
What's the meaning? Etc.
30:04
And because science can only take you so far and I always
30:09
lean on science. Generally to kind of look at,
30:11
like, well, what are the facts here?
30:12
What we did with end, you know, to look at dreams and say, are
30:16
they just it's just biological chemical reactions to things,
30:21
Etc. And it's just that induces that
30:24
onion and you know, maybe maybe it, maybe it is that, but what?
30:28
If it's more So bear with me. What if it is more?
30:35
And on that wavelength. That's always the big one.
30:39
What do you think is the purpose of Dreams?
30:47
Jeans are my connection to the Divine they are.
30:54
The. They're the part of me that I
30:58
can't control. And their internal and they're
31:04
bigger than me. They can show me things that I
31:06
didn't know. I was denying.
31:08
They can tell me truths about myself that I didn't know.
31:12
I wasn't noticing, And so what? As I learned the language of my
31:20
dreaming mind, here we go. What I noticed is that it's
31:25
metaphor and symbol and that is the same language that people
31:34
talk about in religions. The language of spirit, the
31:41
universe, the current the Bubba is symbolic, it's metaphorical,
31:46
it's image-based. So for me, what I learned is
31:52
that by just recording my dreams and tapping into them and maybe
31:58
reflecting every once in a while on what it means for me I have
32:02
this trusted Source in me. It's going to tell me the truth.
32:05
Every time going to be totally unfiltered, Annex and honest.
32:12
And if I choose to look through that lens of symbolism is going
32:17
to teach me something to move, me and evolve me forward towards
32:22
being a better version of myself.
32:28
Amazing. Yeah, thank you so much for
32:30
sharing one thing. I've had over the years, a lot
32:34
which I still struggle with is I kind of have like a Ford version
32:38
of deja vu. So obviously, for those who
32:40
don't know, Deja Vu, it's when you dream that you have
32:45
Experience something before it feels familiar, but it happens
32:51
in everyday life. You know it's like, did I dream
32:54
this before? Did this happen before, some
32:56
people say that it's, you know, a flash from a previous life or
33:01
something like that, you know, a particular place feels familiar
33:04
or particular person. Sometimes I get that you meet
33:06
certain people. You like, I know you like, it
33:08
happened to me the other day. I was working.
33:12
There was a girl that worked in the restaurant next door.
33:15
They introduced myself and I just said, I call you look so
33:17
familiar and there was no reason.
33:21
I should probably just looked like someone had met before but
33:23
say felt deeper than that. But anyway, With the concept of
33:33
like, dreaming things before they happen.
33:38
Where do you set on that? Like, what?
33:41
How is this possible? I know I will share a few
33:45
because I don't know if I've shared it on.
33:47
I don't know if I've spoken about this in the dream series
33:50
yet. So there's two dreams that I've
33:51
had that I've had ahead of time, one of them.
33:54
The first one was a more profound one, which is where I
33:59
was, I was dating this girl and I was 13 14 and I remember
34:04
sitting down on her bed and as soon as I looked at the door
34:07
frame with her, to the right of me, Deja Vu.
34:13
But it was different because I remember dreaming it when I was
34:17
very young, maybe like five years old or something and I
34:21
made. Yeah.
34:22
And I made that connection in my head and I was like, no, no,
34:25
this can't be that's impossible, that could.
34:27
But I remember that I remember dreaming that.
34:29
And then years later it happened again.
34:32
I was, I was at college, and I was sitting in the classroom,
34:37
and I don't know that, I think we had like a computer room in.
34:40
There was a teacher that came over and boom, same again and I
34:43
dreamt that two years prior to that happening.
34:47
So before I even knew that I was going to college or anything
34:50
that kind of stuff, so those are my experiences.
34:53
But yeah, what do you make of it?
34:55
Wow, it's so brilliant and profound and I Mom, so much that
35:01
you have those because you can't deny them their experience
35:05
based. Okay.
35:07
So yeah, it happens all the time.
35:11
Actually. So dreams are every dream as
35:16
layer to you can go like this dream is anxiety, or just a
35:20
pizza. Fine.
35:21
And yep. That's actually probably true.
35:23
This dream is a byproduct of the activity, my brain.
35:26
That's probably true. The science, right?
35:29
And then the deeper you go, all of those layers can be true at
35:33
the same time. So I don't think that prophetic
35:37
dreams are just prophetic. I don't think that mundane
35:40
dreams are just mundane. I think that they're just it's
35:43
just this Rich playground for your soul and whatever that
35:47
means to you. And it sounds like in that
35:49
moment in your teens, it it meant something different.
35:54
All of a sudden, There's a capacity and you all of a sudden
35:57
that's like, I don't, I don't know how that happens, but it's
36:03
such an intimate personal experience. but more than that,
36:07
they don't you think that the significance of that changes
36:12
like the concept of how we understand time.
36:17
So if I am able to dream the future, yes, that presents this
36:22
idea. And again, this is just you
36:25
know, I'm not saying this is it. I'm just saying, maybe, right,
36:28
if you're able to dream the future, That maybe time exists
36:34
in a sense of it's all happening at the same time.
36:37
So the past, the present, the future are all happening at the
36:41
same time but they're not occurring at the same time.
36:45
They just exist at the same time and therefore that brings a
36:50
bunch of other questions. Like for example maybe time
36:53
travel is possible but not in the way that we understand it.
36:56
Maybe it's more of like a shifting of energy into another
36:59
state as opposed to actually traveling you know like DeLorean
37:03
and going back and stuff. You know.
37:04
It's like actually like shifting from one energy space to another
37:09
or something. I'll tell you what.
37:11
I what I think about that about where you're going with that.
37:16
I have had personal experiences where I'm sitting at my desk
37:21
doing my work on an Excel spreadsheet, data entry and
37:25
suddenly I'm also inexplicably in my head or in my in my vision
37:31
I'm standing three-dimensionally in the parking.
37:34
Lot of an outlet mall that I've been to before and I'm doing the
37:38
data entry and I'm like It's happening because it's like
37:43
third eye stuff. It's like It's, it's perception.
37:48
I'm perceiving two different places at the same time, I don't
37:51
know what to make of it. I didn't know what to make of it
37:53
the time, but I did know because I work with dreams not to freak
37:57
out my deal with dreams is the more you work with them, the
38:05
more you normalize, those mystical things that you can
38:08
explain and the less disruptive you are when they happen So that
38:15
I can now stay calm and collected and go.
38:19
Cool. I don't understand what's
38:21
happening right now, but I'm present to it and I'm going to
38:25
wait for more information and I can't wait to tell my sister
38:29
when I get home from work. So for me it's about the this is
38:34
why I'm obsessed with sitting with people and dream work and
38:38
also spiritual Direction because those woohoo, those mystical
38:40
encounters come up and we go How do we hold space for that as a
38:45
reality for you? I did experience this.
38:48
It did happen. Deja Vu for me.
38:50
I did remember the Dream from when I was a child.
38:53
So then my job is to hold the container and let us both wander
38:57
around in there and go. What do you think that is?
39:01
spoke about, you know, Physically being in one place
39:07
and another lab reminds me of astral projection.
39:10
What do you think of the concept of that?
39:13
Do you think maybe are so is actually flying?
39:15
I mean, I can tell you my experience of astral projection.
39:18
I don't know that it's actual projection, but I think it my
39:21
experience is that I remember, having this recurring dream of
39:25
like falling, but it wasn't like a typical falling dream.
39:29
In the said, it's like if it was like jumping off a building and
39:31
falling off a building, then maybe you could be low, maybe
39:33
it's a fear of heights or whatever. it was never that it
39:36
was more like a feeling of Helplessness, like, never
39:41
because I'd never ever hit floor ever.
39:44
But in this is crucial in my teenage room.
39:49
I had this like, weird Well, before I had a bunk bed, I had
39:54
like a sort of semi bunk bed where there was like a desk
39:57
underneath, but it was like a big, massive, like, heavy bar on
40:01
the right. Like, it's just a really weird,
40:03
like, massive Butler's about this big in size length.
40:08
Anyway, I always remember in those moments when I'd wake up
40:12
from that dream, I was like, clinging on to that.
40:16
Almost as though, like, I hit the ground, if you want to call
40:20
it, that beam the bed. So, I just hit the bed and I
40:24
wake up and I look and I Joel, you know, and I don't a lot in
40:28
dreams actually, and I wonder sometimes if maybe It's because
40:32
I've been astral projecting the right?
40:36
So this is the parent part. People don't want to hear but
40:40
the truth is, it's what you believe to be true.
40:45
I can't tell you you were or we're not astral projecting.
40:48
I can tell you about my experiences.
40:51
We can compare notes. And you can decide if I'm a safe
40:54
enough grounded enough person that you're going to go, okay?
40:56
If she was doing it, maybe that's what I was doing to.
40:59
Like, we choose. What feels Right?
41:02
For each of us to believe and dreams, kind of help us expand
41:07
that a little bit and go, maybe I believe a little maybe that's
41:11
possible. Maybe Deja, Vu, is actually a
41:13
wrinkle in time. Maybe I have maybe my soul has
41:18
the capacity to astral travel. My question then is if that's
41:23
what that means for you, what does that do for you?
41:25
How do you walk around in the world differently?
41:29
Okay, I'll for another idea at you because I'm just loving this
41:32
and I know the audience. I love this too.
41:36
What do you make of the concept that right now?
41:39
This right now. We're dead.
41:41
But the dreams are actually the oh no.
41:45
No, we're not necessarily dead. But this is the dream and the
41:48
dreams are actually reality know what I made.
42:06
Whatever we want to have happen. Yeah, let's stay in that space
42:10
and make the best to make the most of it.
42:12
Here is interesting though isn't it?
42:14
Because you often hear about this in like people say like oh
42:18
if you dream it you can you know wherever the mind could deceive,
42:22
can conceive, it can achieve, right?
42:24
And it always sounds like a Faraway sentence and I've seen
42:27
it happen upset, but you know, obviously things.
42:29
Take time, it takes a lot of hard work etc, right?
42:31
But let's suppose for a minute, that is true, that whatever you
42:34
think materializes in becomes. And you have to, as you said a
42:38
manifest it, right? Perhaps it, perhaps it is like,
42:44
you know what we saw in like the first Matrix movie, where you
42:47
can essentially just manipulate everything but you have to have
42:51
like actual you have to believe that you have to actually be
42:55
able to control everything. But but and and but the reason I
43:01
say this and people sound crazy, I know I sound crazy and people
43:04
like but Christian Science. I know I'm that I'm with you,
43:08
okay? But just hear me out, you know,
43:11
they always talk about like how the brain only uses that 10 to
43:13
20% of its potential whatever. Like what if that other like 80%
43:17
is all of that stuff? What if like there was a way to
43:21
unlock or unlimited potential? And we could just do everything
43:24
from my teleportation to like time manipulation to I know
43:28
curing our own health. And make it us live eternally.
43:32
Like imagine, imagine all of that.
43:33
Maybe majan. We were able to either
43:35
regenerate our own cell growth and stuff like that, you know?
43:40
So yeah, here's what comes up for me.
43:43
I don't want everybody else to be able to do that, because it
43:47
might take two things that it brings up from me, the idea of
43:52
ego, okay? And the idea of Maybe I'm meant
43:57
to play small here until I learn how to be responsible enough to
44:01
play bigger. maybe if I had control of my reality, And
44:10
before I have matured, I'm going to do some pretty immature
44:13
things with it. So maybe practicing in the dream
44:18
space. And because there are ways that
44:22
you can suggest to your dreams, like I want to know about this
44:26
or help me understand this, or you can practice becoming Lucid
44:28
in a dream or whatever. Maybe I'm supposed to create a
44:31
dialogue between my ego self, my waking mind and my dreaming mind
44:37
and put them both to use. But Guided by The Dream space,
44:41
which is like, hey first, you need to deal with this issue.
44:45
Something you said the intrigued me and I'm pretty sure you meant
44:49
something else. But I'm just going to run with
44:52
it. Yeah, you said that.
44:54
What if this is like we're not supposed to have the ability to
44:59
control everything in this reality like this life, right?
45:03
Okay, let's run with that. Let's say that that's the case.
45:06
You then kind of implying that maybe this is a test in order to
45:11
see how we deal with this. So that when we go on to another
45:14
plane of existence where there are no restrictions, we would be
45:19
responsible with that power. Is that what you're saying?
45:24
Bobby I am now. That's an interesting.
45:28
That's an interesting thing. I would change the word test to
45:32
learning ground. Okay?
45:35
This is a learning ground because because for me, the
45:38
Divine force is always saying like starting wherever I am
45:44
with. No, no shame or no guilt about
45:46
my choices. It's not about what you did that
45:49
wrong. Try again, it's about, oh, look
45:52
what you did there. Yeah, what do you think about
45:55
that? Now let's do it again and see
45:58
how you choose to do it. I'm an eternal optimist.
46:02
So I don't think it's a test that we can pass or fail.
46:06
I think it's just a learning ground and every experience I
46:11
have is new data to help me choose better or differently.
46:17
Thanks. In general.
46:22
And this might sound like a really basic obvious question,
46:24
but I just want to get your thoughts, your initial thoughts.
46:27
How do you interpret nightmares? What do you make of nightmares?
46:30
What's the point? What's the function will
46:33
castrate nightmares for a bit. Yeah, so there's a great
46:39
researcher author, teacher named Jeremy Taylor.
46:42
And he always said that dreams all dreams come in the interest
46:46
of health and wholeness. So, Nightmares scare us into
46:53
noticing something. And the two things our dreams
46:58
are always doing is attaching to something from Waking Life and
47:03
then making commentary on that. So with a nightmare, what I do
47:09
is I go okay, what what our first of all, what are the
47:12
emotions? I felt in the dream and where
47:15
have? I felt that combination of
47:17
emotions. Almost like a fingerprint of
47:19
emotions in my Waking Life before.
47:23
So what's what's connected to Waking Life?
47:28
And then I would explore the dream, symbolically as
47:31
commentary on that thing. Have you ever seen?
47:38
You took a lot about symbols and stuff.
47:40
Like, have you ever seen a lot of that stuff that you've dreamt
47:43
in real life? On occasion.
47:48
Did it freak? You out?
47:52
The first time I had a dream that ended up sort of came true.
47:57
It wasn't a nightmare. But when I experienced it, the
48:00
very next day I was like um, I dreamt this what does can I tell
48:07
the future now? Am I supposed to be a fortune?
48:09
What is this move? Because it free it, did it
48:12
freaked me off because it was the exact set of circumstances
48:16
that I Not have predicted was coming up the day before and I
48:19
dreamt it that night. That's not nightmare related
48:23
though. So, tell me more about what
48:25
you're asking. I just just general, I guess I
48:31
just want to kind of pick your brains about various topics and
48:34
Nightmares is just, I mean, I mean in general and that's why I
48:38
was hesitant to ask the question because in general, it's like,
48:40
well, obviously it's most likely as you say to kind of push you
48:44
into action and story. At least make you face the
48:46
realities of what's going on in your life and be like, I can
48:49
take it a step further, Joe Topher, because what I found
48:54
useful, and what I teach my clients to do Is if it's coming
48:59
up in a nightmare scenario, it's going to make you feel.
49:04
Not safe to go back to sleep again.
49:05
So here's how we reset that so that you can go back to sleep
49:08
and trust your dreams again. You go into what's called your
49:13
active imagination. So you close your eyes.
49:16
When you're awake and sitting up and fully safe.
49:18
I'm not going to get drawn back into this nightmare, but I'm
49:20
going to close my eyes. And I'm going to Envision the
49:25
Nightmare and get to the scariest part that I feel like I
49:28
safely can get to, okay? And then what I would do is its
49:34
when I I would bless the scene so from a waking conscious mind.
49:40
Place of control. I would say this is here for my
49:44
purpose, there is a purpose here and I would like to know what
49:47
the purpose says, but I don't want this dream again.
49:49
So dreaming mind, take note. None of this.
49:52
Please show me again. In a more dots, in a less
49:56
terrifying, way. In a more spoonamore hopefully,
49:58
and then I would call on for me. It's it's loving light, right?
50:05
So I surround the same like a snow globe with what feels like
50:10
blessing for me, whatever my faith is, whatever my religious
50:14
beliefs are whatever my, you know Spirit guides whatever
50:17
works in your safest place. That's what I would do, bless
50:22
the seen, the scariest thing of a nightmare and say, hey, I know
50:25
this was for me, but I don't want to anymore, I want you to
50:28
explain it to me in a different way.
50:30
And then that sets me up to be able to go back to sleep.
50:35
I don't cool. I just wanted to return back to
50:39
because I have really, I only cut.
50:41
We only covered one and I know people were come at me for not
50:46
asking about the others, but I'll ask you about all the most
50:48
common dreams, I can think of off the top of my head.
50:51
What why, why do you think we dream about, you know, not
50:56
having our clothes in school or something like that?
50:59
I can, you know, because I've had this dream before and it I
51:03
don't get the whole embarrassment.
51:05
I think the weird thing about me and my dreams is a lot of the
51:08
time, I questioned the logic because that's how I am in real
51:11
life. I just questioned everything to
51:13
fall, you know, sometimes I need to just job.
51:16
That's why I told in school, I don't know, but the point is
51:21
that when I questioned in the dream, it then I'm not
51:24
embarrassed. I'm just like, this is weird.
51:25
Why wouldn't I have put trousers on like this does?
51:28
And then they dream in it, that just dissipates after that line,
51:31
and also just on a connecting mode with that, whenever ER, I
51:35
questioned the logic within the dream or if I'm able to do that.
51:39
I always wake up straight away after that.
51:42
So okay, okay. And you've given me so many.
51:44
So I want to talk about being naked in a dream or having a
51:49
particular layer of clothing. Our clothing is our protection.
51:54
So you are missing one or two or more layers of protection and it
51:58
makes a difference if it's your, you know, chest or your legs, or
52:02
whatever. That's going to be symbolic,
52:03
right? It's also About exposure.
52:06
So if you feel like you have over exposed yourself and Waking
52:09
Life in some way, like you've accidentally over shared in some
52:12
way that might show up as a missing clothing.
52:16
There's also the unprepared piece of you thought you were
52:20
preparing for one thing, like a zoom in your house, so you ended
52:24
up having to go in public. So, what I would question with
52:28
that is where in your Waking Life recently.
52:31
Have you been caught off guard or unprepared for something?
52:35
Because that might show up as a naked dream.
52:39
The other thing I want to address though is what you
52:42
brought up Christian about having your logical mind.
52:45
Come on board inside the dream and that waking you up, right?
52:49
Our logical mind is offline when we sleep.
52:52
So when yours come on board, it triggers you to wake up, right?
52:55
It's like oh, hang on, that's ego, that's conscious waking
52:58
mind. That's in the waking State and
53:00
then that's when you wake up, Whoo back up a second.
53:06
Your are you implying that there's no ego attached to when
53:10
we're in the dream state? Here's that here's my take on
53:14
that the dreamer themselves represents in everything inside
53:20
the everything the ego knows. So all of the other characters
53:24
in a dream can be parts of your unconscious.
53:27
Sure that are there to teach you.
53:29
So ego is present in the dream but shows up as As the dreamer.
53:33
Okay, this is the whenever I dream, I always dream.
53:40
I'm in the dream and I mean, yeah.
53:46
Like I'm in control put your I'm reacting to whatever is going on
53:50
or whatever. Like, you know.
53:52
So right, so I posted tectonic a while back and I asked the
53:58
question, do you see yourself in dreams or are you looking
54:02
through first person? Or is it like a third person or
54:04
are you not present in the dream at all?
54:07
And you would be shocked. I thought I was shop at the
54:10
variety of responses. Some people said, depends on the
54:15
dream. It's all three.
54:16
Some people said I never see myself in the dream.
54:18
I'm never a part of my dream. A lot of times people will drain
54:22
that they're seeing the dream on a movie screen and they're
54:25
sitting watching the dream happen but they're not in it.
54:28
So for me that tells me something about the distance
54:32
that you're choosing to be from this issue.
54:35
Like you can't fully integrate it yet and so you're seeing it
54:38
on a screen. Your egos not even present to it
54:41
yet. Do you think the same could be
54:45
true of being physically in the dream like that represents your
54:50
willingness to be connected to the issue?
54:53
Yeah, yeah. Cassidy to inspect and interact
54:57
with that issue. Yeah, absolutely.
55:01
This one recurring dream that I have, it's not that frequent
55:05
based on and off. So, I graduated from uni, like,
55:08
five years ago, but I still have these dreams every once in a
55:12
while, where it will be like, I'm in school uni and I'm like,
55:16
even I don't know I'm failing something, or I something is do.
55:21
And I've missed the dude, it's something like that.
55:23
Yeah. Do you know what that's supposed
55:24
to represent like years after the fact, when you know, it's no
55:27
longer relevant. Yeah, for me, what I would ask
55:30
in that situation is going on right now that your five years
55:36
ago, self has something to offer.
55:41
So, what were you, what were you like five years ago, how are you
55:43
different now? And how would that person handle
55:47
some situation in your Waking Life differently?
55:50
It might be useful to tap in to that.
55:51
Part of yourself. The five years ago.
55:55
Me is a mess like me now of a lot more grounded and five years
56:04
ago. How do I get something right now
56:11
that five year ago? You is like, no, no, we know
56:15
this. We've seen this before back
56:17
then, so it might just be triggering because it's
56:20
something similar. Okay, I would, I would offer
56:25
that five years ago. You might still have something
56:28
to offer as a mess. That's interesting.
56:33
But what do you make of Dreams where someone is trying to
56:40
attack us or kill us or something like that?
56:44
Yeah yeah. Oh that.
56:47
Yeah. Oh no for real wins.
56:49
Is that the odds? That's not my answer.
56:53
The reason I used that phrase or being followed as because of
56:56
like Tick-Tock and Instagram and podcasting and all of that we
57:00
want to be followed. Hey we're interesting.
57:05
Hey, two men must know what I would say.
57:08
Right. Right, right.
57:09
We can trigger if it becomes you know, too much pressure or if
57:14
there's a moment of anxiety or somebody makes an ugly comment
57:16
that's like are they do they know more than that?
57:20
Can trigger a dream that we are being followed.
57:23
So here's the other thing about being attacked If you think of
57:30
the dream state as ego and figures of the unconscious, then
57:36
I figure out of my unconscious attacking me, could be a
57:40
negative pattern that I'm about to repeat and Waking Life.
57:44
And this, this part of my unconscious is rearing, its ugly
57:47
head and going on coming for you.
57:50
This is our survival technique. Even though, you think you've
57:52
learned better. I'm going to take over and we're
57:56
going to My way. So like an unconscious Behavior,
58:02
that's triggered by something. It was interesting for me as
58:07
well as in those dreams. I'm never scared and The
58:14
antagonist never gets me or if they did, if they do try to,
58:18
they're not successful. I always wonder like what the
58:20
significance of that is. Okay, so here's the thing for
58:29
you, as you're sharing. It's like yeah, I don't, I don't
58:32
that's fine. We're not going to deal with
58:34
that. Well, that's okay.
58:35
It's logic. So there's this voice that's
58:38
Christian that I'm hearing, I'm like, oh, there's that voice
58:41
again, that part of You that is very safe and sits in the space
58:50
of logic and is almost like the sort of the judge of what we're
58:56
going to let in. I'm in control.
59:06
There's like the part that is very clear about that's not
59:13
gonna that's not gonna scare me and I'm not gonna, you know,
59:17
we're not worried about that part.
59:19
I just think that that's an interesting thing that I keep
59:22
hearing. But to your question of being in
59:25
the dream state, if it's not scary, The dream, then what
59:29
emotions is it? And again, where has that
59:33
fingerprint of emotion shown up in your Waking Life?
59:37
Because you always dream, sort of contextualize, our emotional
59:42
state, especially are repressed emotions.
59:46
So, if it's not scary, it doesn't have to be scary.
59:50
There are a lots of times. People share a dream and I'm
59:52
like, oh my God, that sounds horrifying there like that.
59:54
No, it was actually entertaining.
59:57
So then we look at okay, where have you been entertained
1:00:01
recently, that may be looked at from a different place could be
1:00:06
a little bit more scary or subversive but it's not really
1:00:10
to you. So the emotional experience that
1:00:13
you have is always a point of interest for me in Dream Work.
1:00:18
Those dreams where, you know, you dream something really
1:00:21
obvious. Like, I don't know, and I've had
1:00:23
this as well, where you, it's like a mountain and you know,
1:00:26
like I always look to that, is that the obvious like, okay,
1:00:29
well clearly there's a big obstacle in my way that I need
1:00:31
to overcome, right? But is it that simple?
1:00:33
Or is there more to it? There's always something that
1:00:37
the dream state is offering to you.
1:00:40
That is so even if you go, okay, I know exactly what that is.
1:00:45
I know it's relating to this thing that Happened yesterday
1:00:49
and it's a mountain and I know I need to overcome it.
1:00:52
My question would be what in the dream stands out as still
1:00:56
unexplained what part of the dream is still curious.
1:00:59
So for example, but it was middle of the night and stormy
1:01:03
or rainy or whatever, I'm like why do you think it was the
1:01:07
middle of the night as opposed to Bright daylight?
1:01:09
Even though we know what the mountain is and that's easy.
1:01:12
And we've got that piece. Now let's figure out why you're
1:01:15
dreaming. Mind chose to throw in.
1:01:17
Such Rich imagery around it. Blows my mind over this stuff.
1:01:25
Really, really does. Okay, let's move it into talking
1:01:32
about. your work with spirituality, so What, what are
1:01:42
hsps? Highly sensitive people and how
1:01:45
do they differ from regular people?
1:01:51
Any sensitive people, it is a proven inherited, genetic
1:01:59
temperament trait. That 20 to 25 percent of the
1:02:03
population is what we call highly sensitive.
1:02:06
And I think that the science Community has now shifted to a
1:02:11
different name for it. Okay?
1:02:14
Which which if I think of it, I'll shout out but I'm not going
1:02:18
to think of it right now. Dr. Elaine Aaron 25, 30 years
1:02:23
ago when she was doing her. PhD started looking into her
1:02:26
therapist, called her highly sensitive.
1:02:28
And she was like, what does that even mean?
1:02:30
So she started looking into it and what you?
1:02:31
That was that biologists over the years of studying human
1:02:38
behavior and animal behavior had identified, although they all
1:02:43
called it, something different. But in their studies, she was
1:02:46
able to find where they mentioned 15 to 20 percent of
1:02:50
the fish species. In our study would not go into
1:02:55
the trap for some reason or whatever.
1:02:58
So she's the one that sort of brought it into the idea.
1:03:01
One of is this a real thing? So here's what it means.
1:03:05
It means that my nervous system is wired in high definition
1:03:10
where everybody else is nervous. System is wired in standard
1:03:13
definition. So I taken more sensory input
1:03:18
okay and I can't tune it all the way out.
1:03:21
I can't, it's unconscious. So it means I have a deeper
1:03:26
level of processing input. It means I get over stimulated.
1:03:31
Easily or overwhelmed easily overwhelm people who are highly
1:03:37
sensitive. Sometimes will get really
1:03:38
irritated when cold air blows over their skin, but they won't
1:03:42
be able to tell you why, whereas somebody else would be like why
1:03:46
are you even noticing? So I have a finely tuned nervous
1:03:51
system that Means I'm always deeply processing.
1:03:58
I'm always taking in stimuli at a deeper level than other people
1:04:02
stimulate can be anything of the senses.
1:04:07
I get emotionally overwhelmed easily because I can empathize
1:04:13
with people at a deeper level, I can't watch violence on TV
1:04:17
because it will wreck me for a week and I'm sensitive to subtle
1:04:22
changes in my environment. I was starting to wonder if I
1:04:26
have this too, because it's like this, some of the stuff you
1:04:28
explain in that, like, resumes, like, for example, I've never
1:04:32
had it diagnosed by have, like, pretty bad anxiety sometimes,
1:04:36
but it affects me like physically, like, it just, it's
1:04:40
like, and I can't get rid of it. I try everything that, you know,
1:04:45
people to say to do like, you know, just take a shower, take a
1:04:49
wall, relax yourself, but I have to just wait until it stops.
1:04:53
It sucks. Last thing for me to have
1:04:56
learned about being highly sensitive as good.
1:04:59
When I get into that state of overwhelm our anxiety, I have to
1:05:04
find sensory deprivation. Hmm, I will go into a dark room
1:05:10
and put a weighted blanket on and just lay there.
1:05:13
And I can feel my whole body buzzing.
1:05:15
And I just have to lay there. Totally unstimulated by any
1:05:21
sensory input until I can like normalize my nervous system
1:05:26
normalizes again and then I can re-enter wherever I was.
1:05:32
But sensory, deprivation is the thing that I that helps me when
1:05:37
I get in that state. And, and I know now that again,
1:05:42
fifteen to twenty percent of the population of humans are highly
1:05:46
sensitive. We're walking around like,
1:05:49
Buzzing with input and it's unconscious.
1:05:53
So we don't know why we're overreacting.
1:05:56
I'll be at the best party ever and I will be done way before
1:06:02
anybody else is done, but I'm like put it we're happy,
1:06:05
everybody's having a good time, but I am melting internally.
1:06:11
So so being highly sensitive is, I've learned to really be able
1:06:17
to identify it because I know the words now so I can talk
1:06:20
about people the on highly sensitive people are as you say
1:06:24
no more or less connected, do you think it's possible for them
1:06:28
to honor that and bring that out of them or do you think?
1:06:31
It's just like some people have it?
1:06:32
Some people don't. So it's been debated and I think
1:06:35
new science is always coming out.
1:06:37
But the current, the current stand on it is that it's not a
1:06:42
gradient where some some people are A variation people can have
1:06:48
Cities without being a highly sensitive person.
1:06:51
So high, being a highly sensitive person as an inherited
1:06:55
genetic trait, like a, like, a temperament, trait personality.
1:07:00
But it means that underlying everything for me, either, I
1:07:04
have anxiety or don't have anxiety or whatever else.
1:07:07
Other things are on top of that, my nervous system is wired to be
1:07:15
on high-definition all the time. I can't turn it off.
1:07:19
I can't become wired that way. It's just how I am.
1:07:24
Sansa tiring. I mean, I can relate.
1:07:27
I really can like, I don't know to what extent?
1:07:30
I'm wired in, but I know that well, for example, I know I'm
1:07:33
much more kind of emotional. I think the most guys, I've kind
1:07:40
of cut it, put it more in, check, in more recent years, you
1:07:46
know, because I had a bit of a, like Crisis, and it came to
1:07:48
masculinity in the last, like, four or five years now, it's
1:07:51
kind of leveled out, and I'm like that, I'm comfortable with
1:07:53
This I can be like, man back in a severe emotional, and that's
1:07:57
fine too. And you find me, you find your
1:07:59
balance, whatever works, right? But at the same time, it's
1:08:03
intriguing to me. The fact that that's there and
1:08:07
what that means and what I represents and the fact that
1:08:10
everyone has it to different levels.
1:08:11
I mean, because if nothing else, It means that you can understand
1:08:17
some people, very well. And some people not so much.
1:08:19
Like, for example, there are people in my life that I just
1:08:22
get like that, I understand what the problem is.
1:08:24
I know, I can feel that there's a problem.
1:08:27
Like, I don't even need to like, really, Especially like look at
1:08:31
them to know that there's a problem.
1:08:32
I can just feel it in the air or like, for example, I've already
1:08:35
what do you make of this? You know what?
1:08:37
When you walk in a room and you just, you never met the person
1:08:41
but you just immediately. Go bad Vibe.
1:08:45
Yes, here's the deal. Oh, yay.
1:08:48
Okay, good. Question, again, for me, finding
1:08:52
that term HSP and researching it was was life-saving because I'm
1:08:56
like oh that's what I'm doing. Cool, then I could move on.
1:09:00
When I, when I highly sensitive person walks into a room of
1:09:03
crowded room, they unconsciously do what's called like emotional
1:09:08
triage, like who in this room is in the most potential for
1:09:13
emotional spikes. That's what we're, that's what
1:09:16
we're scanning for. So what I've come to understand
1:09:20
is that I pick up on what people are emotionally repressing.
1:09:27
So if somebody gives me Me a bad Vibe.
1:09:31
What that tells me is not that that person is a bad person.
1:09:35
It tells me I don't resonate with that person because they've
1:09:37
got some really volatile stuff under the surface repressed and
1:09:42
that's their thing and whatever. Whatever.
1:09:44
But it doesn't jibe with me because it's really a potential
1:09:48
emotional spikes or potential emotional turmoil that that I
1:09:53
don't want to be around because my nervous system will latch
1:09:56
onto and try to take care of that person.
1:09:59
I don't want to be responsible for that level of volatility.
1:10:03
It's hot, isn't it? When you want to help people and
1:10:07
you want to be empathetic, but the same time, you know, it's
1:10:10
going to damage you and other. Maybe the person's toxic, or
1:10:13
maybe there could be a number of reasons, but it's difficult to
1:10:17
say no. Sometimes tend to jump from this
1:10:22
point of, okay, High sensitivity, that must mean, you
1:10:25
know things, but the truth is, it's unconscious.
1:10:30
I don't know why I'm uncomfortable.
1:10:32
I'm just uncomfortable. You're like, I just can't be
1:10:34
hearing. All right, I don't know why I'm
1:10:36
overwhelmed. It's just too much
1:10:38
quote-unquote. This is too much for me.
1:10:41
So, so it's a it's also a skill set to learn to develop because
1:10:48
you have to go in and learn about yourself.
1:10:50
You have to go in and go. What does that mean for me?
1:10:52
And how does that show up for me and and how do I start to become
1:10:57
consciously aware of it? So it's a it's an interesting
1:11:02
deep guy. What's the best advice you've
1:11:05
ever received? My dad.
1:11:15
He always told me the thing, you know, I would bring some concern
1:11:18
ability. Also worried about, what if this
1:11:21
happens or what, and he would always say the fact that you're
1:11:24
worried about, it really means, you don't have to worry about
1:11:27
it, you've got your eye on it, so it would help me, relax a
1:11:32
little bit. He's been so things.
1:11:34
You don't know to worry about. That's, you know, that's where
1:11:36
you have to be prepared, but his advice was honey, if you're this
1:11:39
worried about it, you don't have to worry.
1:11:48
I want to extrapolate on a little bit.
1:11:50
Is that? Because like a solution is going
1:11:53
to come soon. Okay, about that thing, right?
1:12:03
So when it can, the one example, I can think of is like, my child
1:12:09
being a parent, you know, you're worried about all the things you
1:12:14
can possibly imagine in life and like what if that happens, what
1:12:17
if there happens you know whatever.
1:12:18
He said, no because you'll see it coming because you're already
1:12:22
watching for it. You got your eye on it.
1:12:24
So you don't have to worry about it.
1:12:25
You'll catch it. And you'll do what you're
1:12:27
supposed to do because you're already working on it, in the
1:12:30
background. And what's the biggest life
1:12:35
lesson you've learned so far? But I'm not alone.
1:12:41
Internally, I'm not alone, that changed me fundamentally to
1:12:46
understand that my dreams are working outside of my ability to
1:12:49
think about them. Created an intimate encounter an
1:12:54
intimate place where I can have a trusted experience.
1:13:00
With the divine. So you think it is, that's what
1:13:05
I think it is, right? So I know no matter what happens
1:13:09
to me, or my loved ones or my living situation or anything.
1:13:14
I know how to cultivate that dream space, and how to look
1:13:18
for, what's the next thing that I need to unravel to, to help me
1:13:23
here. How do I get help?
1:13:25
My dreams will do that for me. Well, amazing stuff, I could
1:13:32
probably ask you questions all week, but I'm afraid, I've gotta
1:13:37
draw the line somewhere. This has been an absolute
1:13:39
pleasure. I've really just want to say a
1:13:41
massive, thank you for appearing on the show.
1:13:44
Do you have any upcoming projects or some final thoughts
1:13:47
that you'd like to share with our listeners?
1:13:49
My first thought that I didn't get in at the beginning?
1:13:51
As thank you for having this is such an honor to be able to sit
1:13:55
and have these deep conversations with somebody
1:13:57
who's deeply curious. Yes, and an excellent like
1:14:01
conversationalist, like you are so thank you.
1:14:03
It's been so fun for me. Thank you.
1:14:08
Yeah, people can find me at my website, which is Sweet, Georgia
1:14:11
pain.com, and also in Tech, talk and Instagram.
1:14:14
I have a podcast called The Hidden meaning of dreams
1:14:16
podcast, where you just get to listen into a dream and then
1:14:21
unpacking of that drain and kind of exploring how the how the
1:14:24
dreaming mind works. So, you know, hopefully your
1:14:28
listeners have in a good taste of how I kind of jump around
1:14:31
everywhere in all the areas. So you'll find more of that
1:14:35
everyone, you know, in all the places where I try to put out
1:14:40
good work into the world. Fantastic.
1:14:44
Yeah, those face. The honor is mine.
1:14:46
I absolutely loved having you on the show you're more than
1:14:50
welcome to come back on the show as well open invitation.
1:14:53
And I get a feeling that my audience is going to have a lot
1:14:56
of questions and It's case maybe we could do a part 2, maybe
1:15:03
maybe that's something we could do.
1:15:05
Would you be willing to do that essentially?
1:15:07
I'm like, happy Dancing in my Head at just the idea of it.
1:15:11
So yes, and and I'm happy as well.
1:15:14
If for whatever reason that doesn't line up over it, it must
1:15:17
now I'm happy to watch for comments or if there are
1:15:21
comments that you question. People can just email me or DM
1:15:24
me or whatever. And I'll share my thoughts on
1:15:26
it, always fantastic. Well.
1:15:28
Well, this has been amazing, thank you so much for your time
1:15:32
and I wish you all the best and I will be I'll be I'll be
1:15:37
following following your stuff because I'm very intrigued in
1:15:40
this stuff and yeah, just absolutely brilliant.
1:15:44
Thank you so much. And to the listeners of the
1:15:48
Christian era podcast. As always, I hope you've enjoyed
1:15:50
this episode. Remember, to be safe, it well,
1:15:54
and I'll see you in the next one.