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Navigating Modern Romance with Lauren Smith · WriterCon

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This week on the writer con podcast. Figure out what you like to write,
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and then figure out how to write it to market. I think that's
0:08
the biggest challenge. I see a lot of new writers that say, I
0:12
like to read this one very interesting, unique thing, but then when they
0:16
try to write it, it kind of isn't matching anything in the market.
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And while you do want some uniqueness in what you're writing, you still need
0:24
to satisfy reader expectations. So read what you love and then try to learn
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to write in a similar vein what you owe. Welcome to writer kN a
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gathering place for writers to share their knowledge about writing and the writing world.
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Your hosts are William Bernhardt, best selling novelist and author of the Red Sneaker
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books on writing, and Laura Bernhardt, Award winning author the Want Lend Files
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book series. Hey there, writers, thanks for joining me and Laura and
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Jesse. Hey, we got a lot of catching up to do since our
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last recording. We've had wild presidential conspiracy theories and the Grammy Awards and last
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week in the super Bowl and what's the common denominator in all of the above?
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Jesse cars she wins Final Jeopardy and Taylor predictably figures in one of our
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news stories today. So Laura, should I assume that you're swifty? Now?
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I am a fan of for music, and I have been since she
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first started crossing over into pop music. I can remember when I was listening
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to Love Story way back in the day. But why is it a pop
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star that's dominating popular culture? Why isn't it a writer? Well, you
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know, James Parson has to take up vacation to see what he does dominate
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a lot of things. I'm not sure pop culture. I don't see him
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dating. Amazing though, if we can feel those big arenas and I could
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be up there and like the outfit with the boots just reading reading out of
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my book going crazy, I would love that. I feel like that could
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happen in England. Like they have a whole event. I don't know if
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you guys have seen these on YouTube, but like they have events where like
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they have celebrities and actors and whatnot, or like authors come read like random
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letters that are like funny or weird, like either historical letters or current letters
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that were like written to like the Telegraph or whatever, and they have like
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Ben a Cumberbatch read it and They're very funny, and it's like in a
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full auditorium to just like hear people read letters, and I'm like, this
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is why, is in some ways better than us. So I would be
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willing to let Benedict cumber Batch read one of my books. Yeah, you
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think that'd be great? Okay. Our interview today is with a very special
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friend of writer and friend of all of us writer, writer Lauren Smith,
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who is a major league USA Today and internationally best selling romance writer, who
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I had the privilege of teaching in a small group retreat many years ago,
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which probably had nothing to do with her later success, but I'm going to
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brag about it anyway. Longtime listeners will recall that Lauren was interviewed in the
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first season of the podcast, like the fourth or fifth episode, but she's
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a busy person and we haven't managed to get her back yet until now because
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she's not only on this podcast, she's also joining us for the Writer con
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Cruise. So we'll talk to Laura about Lauren about all of that and more.
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But first the news, all right, first news story today does not
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yet have anything to do with Taylor Swift, but has a lot to do
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with it yet right. But wait for Goblin Butts. Now you may recall,
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yes, you heard me right. On a previous episode, we broke
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the biggest story of the year, well, the biggest story for me anyway,
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the fact that one of my books was banned in Florida. Even though
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no one can really figure out why a thriller published by Random House in two
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thousand and five offended someone. But whatever, I'm pleased because it put me
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in the company of some of the best writers who ever lived. And now
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I'm even more pleased because it puts me in the company of you guessed it,
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Goblin Butts. Yes, you heard me correctly. There it is.
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For those of you watching on YouTube, Jesse is showing you the offending book
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cover. You may remember a couple episodes when we made our prognostications for twenty
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twenty four, we anticipated more book banning, and what can I say,
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We've already got it right because of Florida School District has drawn over the cover
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and other illustrations in multiple award winning children's books in its libraries after the chair
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of the local Moms for Liberty chapter complained that some of the characters were naked
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kind of like you see nakedness in a very limited way, sometimes in Maurice
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Sindak books and whatnot, But in this case, one of the offending characters
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a goblin whose backside is vaguely visible. So a woman named Jennifer Pippen submitted
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multiple formal challenges at the end of last year. One of the books she
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took issue with is Unicorns Unicorns Are the Worst, which went a Florida State
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Children's Literature Award. Why because the main character, a goblin, is shown
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with his butt facing the audience, something someone probably thought was cute and funny,
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but apparently some people in Florida have found it inappropriate. Who's correct,
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you decide? So if you're watching on YouTube, you can see the offending
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button question right now. And Jesse, can you bring up what it looked
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like after they literally drew pants on the goblin and the actual physical copies of
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the book pants he's cleaning his girls. Yeah, also he's cleaning his pants.
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All they got the act he's doing, He's like the smock would Anyway,
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this is stupid, stupid? Is it better? I mean, it's
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more boring, but well, first of all, you have me fake what
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it looks incredibly fake? Like the cover, the cover overalls. Uh,
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what do you expect they just drew on it? Yeah? Yeah, this
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is like if listen, if you're really concerned about a goblin butt. First
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of all, goblins aren't real. Second of all, like, if you're
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into butts, that's a you thing, okay, Or if you're offended by
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them, yeah, Or if you're offended by that's also you're a your thing.
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You know, kids see much worse than a goblin butt on a day,
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would imagine. So, now, Laura, I hear rumors that you
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are a mother, you put new slash new slash, and you've put several
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children through public school. Did you ever object to a book they brought home
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or something you found in the school library or anything like that. No.
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I find books open doors to important conversations. Books that deal with issues are
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incredibly important to our children. This I wouldn't have considered an issue. But
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let's be honest, anytime a child would get silly or giggly about that again,
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here's another news flash. Everyone has a butt, I really, even
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goblins. What do these parents do when they take their children to the zoo?
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Do they take them to the zoo? God forbid? They see an
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animal use the restroom or anything like that. I think it's very important from
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my perspective as a parent. I was always very matter of fact with my
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children about these things, and they didn't become fixated with them. They grew
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up healthy and well adjusted. I think when we as parents make a big
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issue out of it, the children then develop a fixation and think that there
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should be some stigma surrounding this. And why are you going to make your
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child uncomfortable about their butt? Y'all have them. I should add, in
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fairness to the state of Florida, that not everybody is on board with this.
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For instance, another parent, man named David Flint, asked moms for
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Liberty why they were this, is his words, sexualizing a drawing quote of
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a goblin's bear backside. It was not included to cause arousal and was of
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a fictional character. Flint also pointed out to another challenge from the same person
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to a book called Sophia Valdez Future pres because, according to the claim,
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the main character's grandfather was shown in one scene wearing a pro LGBTQ pin.
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Well, maybe, but the illustration is so small that it really could be
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anything. Somebody's seeing a pink triangle where there may not be one at all.
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And I mean it's kind of related to the butts thing, isn't it
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when people are seeing pink triangles and worrying about it when they're not really there.
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Yeah. Yeah, And also what's wrong with that? Right? Yes,
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that's the next question. Yeah, all right? New story number two.
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At last we get to Taylor, and this is about the fake Taylor
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Swift book that nonetheless racked up sales. This actually started a few weeks ago,
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but I'm finally getting it to getting to it now because we finally know
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the end of the story. This book was published by Bantam. It's an
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imprint of Penguin Random House, then again major publisher. They released the book
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Argyle, which of course is a tie in with the Henry Cavill film that
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came out what like a weekend or two ago. Anyway, the novelization is
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it attributed to the author Eli Conway. Technically it's a movie tie in edition.
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But the controversy is about how this book was marketed because even though it's
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attributed to this Elie Conway, which is a pen name, and the actual
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authors were not identified. This publisher was working pretty hard to make people believe
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it was written by Taylor Swift. Now let me just Jesse, can you
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show the picture of the cat in the backpack? Just in case you aren't
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a Swifty You may know, or you may not know, that she has
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a Scottish fold cat, a breed which is now insanely popular because of Taylor
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Swift. And if you've watched the documentary that's on Netflix, it's called Miss
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Americana, you can actually see her walking with a backpack it looks a lot
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like this one with a cat that looks a lot like that one poking its
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head out the window. To be fair, the one in the movie isn't
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argyle, but it's well known that Taylor really likes that pattern. So all
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the pieces were in place, but it got out of control. Obviously,
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it didn't take long before the Swifties, who were apparently a for middle group
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of super sleuth picked up on all of this and started debating on the internet
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could it really be Taylor Swift? But Penguin Random House was very much encouraging
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this confusion. In fact, they went in all in on it, even
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though they knew it was not true. And this comes to the part where
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I'm explaining why I sat on this story for a while because it had not
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been officially announced who wrote this book, But now it has. It was
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actually written by two collaborating writers, neither of whom is Taylor Swift. Nonetheless,
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Jesse show them the post that Penguin Random House used to pitch this book,
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specifically targeting Taylor's Swift fan accounts. Just in case you can't read what
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it says above the picture there, it says, We're excited to offer you
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a complimentary copy of Argyle by Elie Conway and then in parentheses or Taylor Swift
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question mark. So they're sending this out to promote the book, even though,
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oh perfectly well, Taylor Swift did not write it. Laura, is
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this an ethical way to promote a book? I saw this article and I
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don't approve. I didn't care for it. I think, first of all,
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you're just going to inflame a group of people that you don't want to
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inflame, right, I personally believe in truth in marketing, but I'm not
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really a marketing person, and maybe that's why I'm not terribly good at marketing,
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because I do try to be very honest, because it's not easy,
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is the real reason. Well, that's but I don't know, this rubbed
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me the wrong way. Yeah, Jesse, what about you? Do you
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approve of this or does this seem like the sort of underhanded thing your arch
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nemesis James Patterson. It does have the flavor of but no, like this
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is this is almost stupider than what Jim Harrison does in the sense that,
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like, first of all, it is a book from the fake author that
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is the main character of the Argyle movie. Yeah. I didn't even dive
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into that, but you're totally right. So it's like, so, like,
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do you remember the TV show Castle? Okay, yes, so they
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released a lot of fake books, like real books authored by the fake Richard
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Castle. Right, we actually own a lot of them because they're hilariously bad,
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but also clause entertaining. This is like that where I'm like, they're
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trying to sell this this obviously this this fake book to push the movie that
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is out now. And I'm like, if Taylor Swift wrote a book,
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what makes people think she wanted to tell people that she wrote a book.
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It does seem like it would be the more sensible thing to do. I
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know that, I know that she likes to leave clues and her lyrics and
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whatnot. But like, also, this movie was in production for a while,
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so like, there's no way they knew that like Taylor Swift would be
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peak Taylor when this movie came out. So it just seems like a lot
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of just like miss just a good both good and bad timing for this.
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So I saw I saw one of those backpacks with the little cat glass and
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a pizza place here in town when I was having lunch with Barry one day,
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and I'm just like, oh, those back those backpacks actually exist.
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So I bet Barry ran out and bought one, didn't he? Oh he
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was not. He was not happy about a cat being in the pizza place
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for sure. So Okay, here's the thing I've I looked at the reviews
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on Amazon and Goodreads, and I think it's this relates to what you were
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saying about the Castle books, because it's pretty clear the Penguin Random House knew
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they didn't exactly have a stellar book here, but they nonetheless seized on this
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lame o marketing opportunity to sell it by co opting co opting Taylor Swift's fan
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base right. I mean, they might as all hand it out friendship bracelets
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with it or something, and it's completely disingenuous and seems like not the or
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maybe I'll just start handing out friendship bracelets with my next book. I don't
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know, but seems like not the way to do it. It's just it's
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listen. And what's funny is like they were doing this to hand out free
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copies of the book, so not even to sell more copies of the book,
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well, to get people to post about it on the internet, because
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that's how you sell books today. That's true. Boy. All right,
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game Jesse, qu'es queue up that music. Let's talk to you. Lauren
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Smith. Lauren, welcome back to the podcast. Thank you for having me.
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All right, traditional first question, if you could offer writers one piece
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of advice, what would it be, figure out what you like to write,
17:22
and then figure out how to write it to market. I think that's
17:26
the biggest challenge. I see a lot of new writers that say, I
17:29
like to read this one very interesting, unique thing, but then when they
17:33
try to write it, it kind of isn't matching anything in the market.
17:37
And while you do want some uniqueness in what you're writing, you still need
17:41
to satisfy reader expectations. So read what you love and then try to learn
17:45
to write in a similar vein what you love, which we hope is something
17:52
that you'll be able to sell. I mean, I thought what you were
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saying about the market was dead on, because in small group of treats and
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one, not so often I get people who are writing things that are not
18:07
bad but clearly not commercial. And I'm telling if that's what you want to
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do, great, but you know, don't complain later when the sales aren't
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very good. Right choice here, right exactly. Speaking of books, you
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got one, I think it just came out or recently called Dukes and Diamonds.
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What can you tell us about that? Well, it's a really fun
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story. I always tried to when I'm writing historical, whether it's novella or
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a novel. This was a novel. I try to take a kernel of
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real history and blend it in in some way. Maybe I tweak some things,
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or maybe I keep a real event exactly as it happened and place it
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in there. And in this particular story, I wrote a there's a real
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jewel thief gang that was all women and run by women. And they would
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literally run into stores and smash a bunch of cases and steal dwelry and run
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out, and the police were so afraid of them they called them the Elephant
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Gang. They didn't want somewhere near these women. And there was about like
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one hundred women in this gang, and they would literally it was kind of
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like the modern looting you'd see today. But I thought that was kind of
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interesting about a woman run gang in the eighteen hundreds. You don't normally think
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of women running criminal enterprises. And I thought, well, I'm not really
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wanting to glorify criminal enterprises or having negative but I like the idea of women
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deciding to steal things, and for me, I always like to have heroines
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that have more noble purposes. So I thought, what if I had two
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rich women who are seeing other people in society misbehaving and causing problems, whether
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to people or to other people in their social circles, and to punish them,
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they decide to steal their jewels. And so they recruit a pickpocket from
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the streets who's an excellent at her job, and they say, we're going
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to teach you to be a lady, and you're going to act like us.
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We're going to tell everybody that you're one of our friends's cousins, and
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then you're going to help us rob these people, like in the middle of
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falls, during tea parties at night while they're asleep. And so they make
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the mistake though, of targeting a duke who had broken up an engagement to
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one of their friends, and their friend had been so cast out into society
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she had to leave England and go to the United States, and so they
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thought, we're gonna put these guys. So he has a big old diamond
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and we're going to steal it, and then it kind of you know,
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of course, then she gets caught trying to steal the diamond, the duke
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shoots her, and it's this whole thing so to story meet cute all that.
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So it's just kind of a fun different take. Oh good, sounds
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like fun. It is. I like how you I like hearing your process
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of developing. That's that's very interesting to me. And it sounds like your
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interest in romantic fiction began when you attempted to rewrite the entire Titanic movie just
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safe Jack from drowning. So again here we're seeing how your bringing kind of
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works things to the way you want them to be exactly. I was only
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ten when I tried that. And the funny thing, I didn't know that
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I ended up being a romance writer until in my like mid to late twenties,
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And it was just really funny that I look back and I'm like,
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I actually sat down with the VHS tapes and just played minute by minute and
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would pause the VHS tape and then write a whole scene. And my whole
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point was to get to the end and then save Jack from drowning. But
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I think my you know, ten year old self tired out about the first
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half hour into the movie with like one notebook full, and then I gave
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up. That's I loved that. Did you give Jack some kind of super
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flannel underwear or how'd you work this? I don't even know what my I
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think I was just going to have him fit on the door together, but
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we never even got there. I think I was still in the submarine where
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they just discovered the artwork, you know, before I I was writing from
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like the very beginning. I didn't just cut to the end. I was
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like, literally it was almost like a screenplay, but not you know,
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that's so cute. Well, I mean, we know romance is the most
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popular genre by a large margin. Why do you think that is? You
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know, it's funny. I'm really strongly opinionated about romance, and I think
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it's because I lived my whole life not having a good perception of it.
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My grandma was a big romance reader. My mother was very anti romance because
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she was very opposite my mother. My grandmother, so it was like more
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like a mother daughter battle. And I just came to it with kind of
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no opinion whatsoever. I just thought, I don't want to read it.
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I have no interest in it. And it wasn't until law school when I
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went to a writer group one time and I was writing what I thought was
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epic fantasy, like the next Game of Thrones, and this older woman a
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critique group, she just pulls me aside. She goes, honey, you
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know you write romance, And I went, no, I don't. Oh
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my god, how dare you say that? And she's like, Paul Roberts.
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Read it and talk to me next week, me a youthed book and
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I read it and I went, I do write romance, and maybe I
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kind of like this. And then I went to the Borders that was near
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my apartment that day, and I bought like maybe twenty paperbacks of all subgenres
23:07
of romance, like you know, paranormals, historical contemporaries. It's just like
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I'm going to try everything, and I just from then on it was like,
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this is what I write, this is what I love. And I
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think the thing that you know, people take for granted is that romance is
23:21
a female empowered storyline. And I think there's a lot of stories out there
23:25
where we don't women, especially in Hollywood. You see this, women are
23:29
used to continue a male storyline. They're usually killed, they're usually part of
23:34
a revenge plan. They're like, we don't call them agents have change.
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So they are there as stagnant characters for the males to have journeys. And
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the best thing about romance is it's not only you know, hero centric,
23:48
but it's heroin centric. So it shows that marriage and romance is a partnership.
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Both the hero and heroin mostly have equal page time. They work together.
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It's not about just shirtless gorgeous men. It's out understanding someone else's point
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of view, learning to accept flaws and overcome challenges and I think that's the
24:06
strongest message about romance, is the healthiest message, and it creates empathy among
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readers. They've done, you know, the Wall Street Journal and the University
24:12
of Toronto have like reported on studies of that, and I just find it,
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you know, sad that the average society mocks what is so beautiful.
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I mean, I don't know anything more powerful than love in this universe.
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What else to die for or to live for than to love other people in
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whatever form of love that is. And romance is not just romantic love.
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It can be between parents, siblings, neighbors, friends, strangers. I
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mean, that's the beauty is that when you read and write these books,
24:41
you're seeing relationships in such a deeper and more meaningful way, all relationships,
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you know, Like the current story that I'm writing right now has a storyline
24:48
where the father is going to die and it's going to deeply affect the heroine
24:52
who's her father. But yet the hero who had only just met him,
24:57
feels like this is the dad he should have had his whole life. And
25:00
it's a whole other type of relationship and I get to build on that.
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And that's not a romantic relationship, but it's love, nonetheless, and I
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think that's the beautiful part of romance, is that you get to explore the
25:11
realities of our human heart and all it comes with it. Right. Okay,
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you really did a good job of encapsulating exactly why I so very much
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enjoy women's fiction and romantic women's fiction for the very reasons that you just illuminated.
25:29
And you also made an excellent point for joining a writer's group because it
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opened the door for you too what has been very successful path. Now,
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absolutely, that definitely changed my life. So let me ask a follow up
25:44
question that might be a little trickier. So, yes, absolutely romance sells
25:48
better than any other genre by a big margin. But I have read that
25:53
mystery thrillers are checked out of libraries more often. What do you think makes
26:00
the difference? Why do you think that is? That's actually an easy question
26:03
to answer. I know that sounds silly, but so romance readers tend to
26:07
be, because of society's perceptions, more embarrassed by what they read, so
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they tend to read digitally, and they also are more loyal readers, and
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they tend to buy the books because they like to reread. I know so
26:19
many readers that will reread favorite series, and so if they check it from
26:23
the library, they lose it, and they also lose track of what series
26:27
they've read. So when they buy the Kindle editions, it stays in grouped
26:32
collections inside their sublibraries, and that way they it's it's kind of like a
26:36
reading log. They keep track of what they've read, and it's easier for
26:38
them. Whereas the standard mystery reader tends to be unashamed that they're reading mysteries
26:44
and thrillers. And that also those types of people tend to be at libraries
26:48
more often because I usually write at libraries and I see the kind of personality
26:52
that gets those books. It's usually middle aged women between I would say forty
26:57
to about age seven. Are we talking about mysteries or romance at this point?
27:03
Mystery killers are actually the heavily read female audience, which women tend to
27:07
know more than men in general. But but yeah, they frequent libraries more
27:12
because they're less embarrassed. It's I had a coworker bring a book to me
27:19
once. This is I don't know, over a decade ago, fifteen years
27:22
ago. She had a book she really wanted me to read, and She
27:25
literally brought it to me wrapped up in brown paper because she was so embarrassed.
27:30
You're absolutely right that there's a stigma associated with that. But here I
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am, all these years later now with my e reader on book twenty in
27:40
the series that she's No one knows what I'm reading except Bill because he leaves
27:45
over night and checks Lauren. I visited your website this morning, and at
27:52
this point, I think you've won more awards than any artist other than Taylor
27:56
Swift rita nominations, and I think that's the big deal in the romance world.
28:04
What is your secret? Tell us all how we can do as well
28:08
and win all these awards. It's honestly two things. And the funny thing
28:12
is I've kind of stopped entering contests because I felt bad though I thought,
28:17
Okay, I've gotten as as I can get. I should just let others
28:22
like the actor who drops out of the Emmy's I've for they won five times
28:25
with the same role. Yes, that's you. I want to give other
28:27
people the opportunity because when I won my very first contest, it was with
28:32
an editor at I think it was Penguin Ping. When she was at Penguin
28:36
at the time, and it I literally got the notification at ten o'clock at
28:41
night and I literally sat up in bed, read it on my phone and
28:42
started screaming. And I'm not a screamer. I'm not like a sporting events.
28:47
My heart will be pounding, but I don't yell or even clap that
28:49
much. I mean, I very much internalized my reactions. So for me
28:52
to be screaming in my house with Joy was how much that really did touch
28:57
me that this was the journey because she said in her comments that she would
29:00
buy the whole series, and I thought, this is my door in,
29:03
this is my way to being a published author. And it's not that I've
29:07
been chasing that feeling ever since. It's more that I've picked contests where I
29:11
have felt there were editors or opportunities that were offered. So if anybody's interested
29:17
in contests, you know, look at what you get for prizes. Is
29:21
it money? Is it getting in front of an editor or an agent that
29:22
you're interested in. You know, if the editor or agent doesn't read or
29:26
enjoy, like if they're not a historical romance reader and you're entering the historical
29:30
romance thing, you know, be prepared to not get a recommend, you
29:33
know, request for a manuscript. So be smart about it, is what
29:37
I would say, you know, pick logically the ones that have an advantage
29:40
to your career, and then more importantly, make sure that first you know
29:45
three chapters. However, many pages needs to be absolutely polished. I made
29:51
sure that the first fifty pages, because some contests have more pages they allow.
29:56
They need to be perfect, they need to be spotless on character.
29:59
They need to have been read multiple times by people comfortable in your genre.
30:03
So if it's a mystery thriller, it's a certain type of thriller, or
30:06
is it a cozy or is it make sure you've had people who have the
30:08
reader expectation of what you should be writing read that. Do not allow people
30:14
to beta read. I think the biggest misuse of anything in our industry is
30:18
beta services. I see a lot of big names saying I've sent it off
30:22
to my betas, and whenever I later talked to them, you know,
30:23
and they have an issue with their manuscript that comes back in reviews. I
30:27
said, well, you send this to beta people, right, and you
30:30
find out that beta aren't as qualified. So I prefer to send things to
30:33
editors and then to real readers who read voraciously. So I have a group
30:38
of maybe five or six trusted individuals who I know their strengths and this is
30:42
and they're just real readers. They don't have any editing experience. They're not
30:47
editors, they're not proofreaders. They read strictly for I didn't like this,
30:51
I like this, I hated that that didn't make sense. And if I'm
30:53
worried about the book, I send to those people. But now I'm so
30:56
comfortable in my rhythms and my patterns and what readers like that I don't have
31:00
to rely on them anymore. And now they're just my normal kind of arc
31:03
team when they read the book when it's done. But in the early stages
31:07
of my career they were very vital for me in writing correctly, because that's
31:11
how you win those contests, is making sure those pages are polished but also
31:15
written to market. Wow, hey, you're part of the faculty this year
31:22
for the writer Con cruise, so you probably knew i'd bring that up.
31:25
And by the way, aside to listeners, it is not too late to
31:29
register. Go to writer conon dot com. But anyway, can you talk
31:33
a little bit about the cruise and what you're going to do there. Yeah,
31:36
so I am really excited. I have been on a few writer cruises
31:40
before with some other groups, just kind of trying out different things, and
31:42
I, first of all, I love cruises. Cruises are really fun.
31:45
You've never been on one. If you're like me, I can't unplug in
31:49
any environment, and so being a pisc's I'm around water, there's literally nothing
31:53
for me to do. All I can do is relax, and that,
31:56
to me is one of the biggest benefits. And being surrounded by people who
32:01
talk and think like you. I mean, I don't know about you,
32:05
but we tend to be introverted, but when I sit down at table with
32:07
writers, I'm never introverted. The conversations we have. Everybody understands what it's
32:12
like to have characters talk to you, what it's like to have a plot
32:15
twist, or how you're structuring a series. Just these things that can come
32:17
up. And so I'm excited to meet everyone that attends the cruise, and
32:22
I would be happy to do, you know, unofficial one on one sessions
32:25
with anybody that just wants to chat about their career, ideas or book ideas
32:30
or you know, what they have planned for their their writer lives. And
32:34
you know, I'm looking forward to presenting on you know a number of topics
32:37
I can talk about, you know, writing, you know how to get
32:39
your word count up, mastering writing, tension and motion and conflict in your
32:44
stories, because emotion and tension and conflict are the three most driving things that
32:49
keep readers starting the pages. And then of course I can talk more about
32:52
business, if anybody's up to a higher level in business. I can discuss
32:54
foreign translations and you know, how to build your author brand, and any
32:59
number of things that people want to talk about. I will have presentations ready.
33:04
Fantastic, excellent. Well, you've kind of been a pioneer in taking
33:09
control of your rights, especially those foreign rights that you were just mentioning.
33:13
How did that get started? Well, I've always seen myself as my goal
33:19
is to be a household name someday that you know they back in the day,
33:22
they had this phrase everybody loves a Lindsay, which was a Jolanna Lindsay.
33:25
So my joke in that in my house has been everybody loves Lauren,
33:30
because so I would like the new Joanna Lindsay. But I decided early on
33:37
being you know, an attorney and being someone that studied business. And I
33:42
do have a business mind. My mother is a banker, my father is
33:45
a lawyer. It's unavoidable that I'm a business person despite being creative and having
33:50
control. I'm very, very obsessed with work products and not only covers,
33:55
editing, the overall packaging of books. I spend extra money on it.
34:00
Tear your art spread so that when people get print books, they've paid extra
34:02
money and they have beautiful artwork. I was one of the first people that
34:06
did a fully illustrated book, not a graphic novel, but like a twenty
34:08
plus illustration illustrated eight and a half by eleven hardback book for one of my
34:15
best selling series on its tenth anniversary. And I'm trying to always think about,
34:19
you know, merchandising rights and foreign rights, and to what I always
34:22
think of is what do fandoms get obsessed with? Because fandoms are your biggest
34:27
power, and so I think about what products do fandoms like? Can I
34:30
make those? So my next adventure after I was working on foreign rights,
34:34
and I'm still, you know, producing a lot of my books in foreign
34:36
but we're going to be working on reader merchandising now, where we're using one
34:39
of those cricket machines to do special water bottles that have cute phrases like good
34:45
Girl Academy connected to you know, my branding from my series and just like
34:50
smut Reader, you know, seeking romances that readers that don't necessarily connect to
34:57
directly one of my series, but will have subtle Lawrence Smith or am My
35:00
Castle my other pen name branding on it. Because I think when you think
35:04
about your books, you have to think about all the rights that come with
35:07
them and the opportunities those present. So you're talking audio books, merchandising,
35:10
film rights, and every writer should always be thinking about what if my career
35:15
takes off tomorrow. I need to be protecting those rights and be ready to
35:19
pack on them because that's where a lot of extra money can come in.
35:24
We have quite a few aspiring writers among our listeners. Can you talk to
35:30
us a little bit about what a typical writing day looks like for you,
35:34
maybe a little bit of your process. I am definitely a panster, and
35:37
so when I people ask me about my process frequently and it actualies them when
35:43
what I tell at least when I tell planners what when I do our plotters.
35:47
I always handwrite all my books in a college rule notebook, and I
35:52
have certain pens that I prefer based on very important to have the right paper
35:58
and the right pins. And I can actually within one or two pages target
36:04
an exact word count now, because I know my average word count is three
36:07
hundred and seventy five words per front page and then per backpage another three hundred
36:10
and seventy five. So when I write, and I write chronologically, I
36:14
may write for thirty to forty minutes at a time, and then I very
36:17
much get distracted and see a squirrel and run off and do something around my
36:22
house typically or go lim with my dog or you know. Then I come
36:24
back and then I do a little bit more writing, and I typically write
36:28
in the morning. I found my energy level is my creative energy is better
36:31
in the morning, and then I can do administrative work, which is,
36:36
you know, processing tax receipts, looking at earnings, working with graphic designers
36:39
on graphics, previewing social media content with my social media organizer, and doing
36:45
those kind of things in the afternoon. But when I first started writing,
36:49
it was all writing, all editing, and it was no administrative work.
36:52
And I would say that the best advice that I ever heard about the two
36:57
different types of writers are there. You know, it's not just plotters and
37:00
pantsters, but there's also big chunk and little chunk writers. And it's okay
37:05
to be either a big chunk or a little chunk writer. And what I
37:07
mean by that is I'm a little chunk writer. I will write maybe one
37:10
or two pages, and then I need a break and I got to go
37:13
do something and then I come back. And then there are people who are
37:15
big chunk writers. They will sit for two to three hours and they will
37:19
get everything hammered out, and they can write a long time, and maybe
37:22
they do more words than I do, but their process works better by working
37:25
longer and deeper focused, whereas me, I very much thirty to forty minutes,
37:30
and then I have to take a break because the creative well for me
37:34
needs a little refreshing, a little pause, a little thinking. And I
37:37
think part of that is because I'm a pantster. I need more time between
37:40
my chunks to think about where things are going just a few steps ahead,
37:45
versus planning out a whole novel. So I would say, you know,
37:47
explore writing for different lengths of time, writing in different places. I tend
37:52
to like to write in public. I don't like people talking to me,
37:57
but I do like seeing people talk, and I have my head phones on
38:00
with playlist as I'm doing this. But I like the energy of being in
38:04
restaurants or cafes or the libraries where I live are usually pretty active with people
38:07
and they're well lit, so you're not tempted to take a nap in public.
38:10
Worse, if I'm at home, I will take a nap. So
38:15
you'll to explore, you know, where you feel energized, where you feel
38:19
creative, you know, and don't think you have to just do one thing
38:22
because somebody else told you that that's how they wrote their best selling novel was
38:25
to do it this way. I'm all about giving the advice that whatever works
38:31
for you is what works for you, and I'm always happy to hear someone
38:36
else giving different examples. And I personally do not have success working in public,
38:43
and so I wouldn't advise someone. So this is great. It's great
38:46
when people hear a wide variety of things and they can try them all and
38:50
find out what works for them. I really like that, Laura. And
38:53
one last question, other than the cruise, which is of course the most
38:58
important thing, but other than that, what's coming up next for you?
39:01
Well, let's see. I will be going to a local signing here at
39:07
the hard Rock Casino Hotel in Tulsa, Oklahoma on April sixth. I believe
39:12
it's that Saturday signing where, if I may ask, it should be in
39:15
one of the big ballrooms in the casino. Really is there an event?
39:21
Yeah, it's a big event. It's called the Magic City. It's not
39:23
the Magic City. I got invited to that, and I was so sad
39:27
that I didn't. I was literally could not be in two places at once.
39:30
I had to tell my other local books so I can't. I can't
39:32
come to that when I can't apply, but I can. You know,
39:35
I've got to be at this other thing that's been in the works for a
39:37
year and a half now, but I think they had it's a big event
39:40
with one hundred authors that will be in that room, but they're all romance.
39:45
And then, of course the cruise in April, and then I believe
39:46
I have in Kansas City in early August. I will be at the mid
39:52
co at Public Library for the Romance Genre con signing on that Saturday, and
39:57
then I believe I will be in Salem choose its for the Witchy signing for
40:02
romance authors for paranormal Romance. So that sounds fun. We've been to Salem.
40:07
But books, Lauren, have you got any books coming out? You
40:13
said Cruz. So I got off on my schedule. I thought, oh,
40:15
my gosh, I don't even know. Oh. I have a really
40:19
fun book called The Karen Feeding of Rugues that will hopefully be out in May.
40:23
I'm pretty sure it will be out in May. And it's about a
40:27
female scientist. She's a naturalist who studies biology animals, and it's in eighteen
40:32
eighty two and she ends up getting into a wager with her neighbor, Sherlock
40:36
Holmes on Baker Street, and he didn't play the violin during their meetings and
40:40
it drives her crazy. And she have a society where they learn things,
40:45
you know, that aren't really taught to women, like engineering and science and
40:49
astronomy and stuff like that. So she decides that she's going to win his
40:52
violin if she learns to study men, because he thinks she doesn't know anything
40:58
about men. So he picks a or the worst guy if possible, for
41:00
her to study, which is a man who's recently returned from France after killing
41:05
a man in a duel twelve years ago that forced him into exile. So
41:07
he wants her to learn about Morley Grayman, not just the gentleman down the
41:12
street that she would typically interact with. So it ends up with this sort
41:15
of kind of rom calm feel where she's dressing up with a guy and get
41:20
sneaking into gambling halls and gentlemen's clubs and choking on cigars and whiskey while trying
41:23
to understand men. She gets in a fight in a card room. It's
41:27
all very entertaining, but at the same time she's building a relationship with this
41:31
titled gentleman with this darker past who is hoping for a new future. So
41:36
there's a of course, a deeper romance that goes on, but set against
41:39
the backdrop of this very funny wager with Sherlock Holmes. So that's coming out,
41:44
and then I will probably have another regency romance in the fall, and
41:47
then possibly a contemporary romance around Christmas. Well, I want to read this
41:52
Sherlock Holmes one. We got have to have you back for that. I'm
41:54
sure they're all fabulous, but you know, Sherlock Holmes, how can you
41:59
resist that? Lauren? Yeah, exactly, Lauren, thanks so much for
42:04
being on the podcast. Coming in soon. Please thank you. Bye byeye.
42:19
Just a few parting words. Laura give us the update on the Writer
42:22
con cruise. Well, can I say? Lauren gave us some really good
42:29
reasons to go, and I wholeheartedly agree getting away being secluded, but also
42:36
grouped with your people who are going to be supportive of your writing. There's
42:40
nothing better. This is where we can really get some good work done while
42:45
enjoying the ocean, beaches, some awesome destinations. If you're lucky, you
42:52
might be. You might even see some dolphins. I've seen dolphins before.
42:55
Some flying fish. Oh my gosh, it's amazing. I'll be working with
43:00
a small group. I can't wait. I'll be presenting about what you have
43:06
to come on the cruise to find out. Just to be clear, it's
43:10
not that we're so secretive. It's but the courses and what we do.
43:15
The talks all revolve around who's there. You know, we ask for manuscripts
43:22
in advance, so we have some idea where you are in your writer journey
43:28
and what's your book's about, and we can tailor every thing to be of
43:32
most benefit to the people on board. Right. My way was more mysterious
43:37
and exclusive, but your way it's more factual. We did talk about being
43:40
factual today, okay, And let me also remind everyone that writer Con has
43:46
its own magazine now and you don't want to miss the next issue. The
43:52
last one the February issue, which of course had romance focus. Yeah,
43:58
it was just a gorgeous issue you and so much good stuff in it.
44:00
Yeah good, and also craft articles, marketing articles on breaking issues. If
44:07
you're interested, please go to substack and search for writer Con mag All right,
44:14
until next time, writers, keep writing, and remember you cannot fail
44:20
if you refuse to win. See you next time.