Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Paul Arthur about his choice of Kerblam!

Transcript

Talks to Paul Arthur about his choice of Kerblam! · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt pen knife for doing quicker.
• 0:37
  Welcome back to a hamster with a blood pen knife.
• 0:39
  The Doctor Who commentary. But I think the there are many
• 0:43
  others, but they're all inferior.
• 0:45
  Sorry Toby, I'm so excited today.
• 0:49
  So excited because somebody popped into my DMS recently and
• 0:55
  said excuse me, you've had every other fucker on your podcast
• 0:58
  except me. When's it my turn?
• 1:01
  It wasn't quite that rude. Hello, Paul.
• 1:04
  Hello, Joe, How are you? I'm having a very nice day.
• 1:07
  Thank you. I've had a nice day in Brighton.
• 1:08
  I bought some Doctor Who tat and now I'm here talking to you.
• 1:12
  How about you? Yeah, very good.
• 1:14
  Happy to be here, really over the moon.
• 1:16
  I wanted to do a podcast for so long and I'm really glad that my
• 1:20
  podcast debut is with yourself. Are you listening to this, you
• 1:23
  bunch in the extended hamster universe?
• 1:26
  OK, there's someone hungry to give opinion.
• 1:28
  I'm assuming you have opinions. All right, I.
• 1:30
  Wanted to, yeah. Yeah, great.
• 1:32
  Let me just quickly give me a one word summation or opinion.
• 1:36
  I'm just going to say random things now.
• 1:38
  All right? Just give me a single word.
• 1:40
  Well, you know, you've got to be ready for this stuff.
• 1:42
  The keys Baroness. These men, oh love it, Yeah,
• 1:47
  love the the travelogue nature of it and going to different
• 1:50
  places. Brilliant.
• 1:51
  OK, Empire of Death. Oh, less fun.
• 1:58
  I don't want to get into RTD 2 but.
• 2:02
  If you're looking for opinions on RTD 2, don't call up.
• 2:04
  All right, OK. The greatest show in the Galaxy.
• 2:07
  Oh, love it, love it. It's creepy clowns.
• 2:09
  Brilliant ear, atmospheric, just fabulous.
• 2:13
  Love that era of Topsy. Oh, this could be contentious
• 2:16
  time lash. I actually quite like it.
• 2:19
  I think it's one of my favorite story from that season, that
• 2:23
  season. I think it's a pretty trad
• 2:25
  story. Yeah, lots to like.
• 2:28
  With opinions like that, you are the traitor.
• 2:31
  OK, planet fire. Well.
• 2:35
  Seminole for many reasons as a young lad watching Nicola
• 2:39
  Bryant, but. You said Seminole them right,
• 2:42
  Seminole. Yeah, you know, like the
• 2:45
  beginning of. Something.
• 2:46
  The beginning of something, yeah, is yeah, it was.
• 2:49
  It's good running around. OK, just a few more.
• 2:52
  Sorry, this is fun. Oh, Silence of the Library and
• 2:56
  Forest of the Dead. Enjoyed it at the time, haven't
• 3:00
  been back to it for ages and not sure I love River Song, so yeah.
• 3:08
  No. I think I'd have to watch it
• 3:09
  again to be honest. OK.
• 3:10
  I just wanted an excuse to say I promise you I'll find you OK.
• 3:16
  Oh, the Pandora opens and The Big Bang.
• 3:19
  Go on. Well, Pandora opens.
• 3:23
  We're talking before the call about my kids.
• 3:26
  My son was in hospital when that was on TV as a baby.
• 3:31
  So I watched it on a little squirty little black and white
• 3:33
  portable with really bad reception.
• 3:36
  And yeah, I'm not sure I've been back to it since there's a lot
• 3:40
  of the modern era that I've kind of watched on broadcast and
• 3:43
  haven't revisited. Certainly it's not as much as
• 3:45
  the story that we're going to talk about today.
• 3:48
  And I think just because of the time I've watched it, I don't
• 3:51
  really have a lot to say about it.
• 3:53
  I'm afraid he's. Listening to this man, he's got
• 3:55
  a lot of good sense, you know, he watches some things and he
• 3:58
  watches them once, and then he has a life.
• 4:01
  But some things you do and something's a hell of a lot.
• 4:04
  So, you know, I think I'm more of a, I'm a classic boy really
• 4:07
  at heart. So that's the stuff I know well.
• 4:10
  The modern stuff I do do watch and do rewatch, but perhaps not
• 4:15
  as much. Classic, you say?
• 4:17
  All right, OK. Well then just to give, give
• 4:18
  these podcasts sort of, you know, the other tedious podcasts
• 4:22
  on this one, of course. Do you still want to go on
• 4:24
  those? Yeah, the boring ones.
• 4:26
  Oh, I'm more than happy to go on any podcast.
• 4:28
  Yeah. Thank you.
• 4:28
  You listen, you dreary lot. OK, He wants to even come on
• 4:31
  yours. What about Professor Zarov?
• 4:35
  Oh, and what's menace? Well, nothing in the world can
• 4:38
  stop him now. What is there to say?
• 4:41
  The guy's got a pet octopus. Yeah, I mean, who doesn't love
• 4:45
  her? I I love a juicy villain.
• 4:48
  Excuse me? Yeah, you know, like stars
• 4:51
  twirling scenery during villains.
• 4:53
  That's that's already up my street.
• 4:55
  So yeah, it's a fun story. Perhaps you can send me a list
• 4:57
  of what you consider to be juicy villains of Mike.
• 5:01
  And of course, as if this was all planned, what about series
• 5:05
  11 of Doctor Who? There is 11 I love.
• 5:09
  Oh my God, yeah, absolutely. Because we're talking about one
• 5:12
  of those today. So yeah, genuinely really love
• 5:15
  the whole Jodi era. Really love season 11 when it's
• 5:18
  died. I think that Chipnalls doing
• 5:20
  something a bit different. I I don't want to I don't want
• 5:25
  to say something is good at the expense of something else.
• 5:27
  But my journey through those four years was that I began to
• 5:31
  get a little bit bored of the Moffat years.
• 5:34
  And certainly by the end, by Capaldi's last year, I was
• 5:39
  actively annoyed for the first time ever.
• 5:41
  I think with Doctor Who, it just, yeah, I just didn't, I
• 5:44
  just didn't say it. And I was just hungry, crying
• 5:47
  out for something different, you know, something, something
• 5:50
  fresh. And I felt that that's what
• 5:53
  Kipnor delivered. We we got interesting stories,
• 5:56
  different stuff. We an emphasis on historical
• 5:59
  stuff and and women in history, which I thought was just
• 6:02
  fascinating, really, really good.
• 6:04
  And so yeah, everything about it was just felt new, felt fresh
• 6:08
  and felt as Doctor you should be.
• 6:09
  You know, like in the classic years, every era is distinct,
• 6:13
  every era is different. But really in many ways, I felt
• 6:17
  that Moffett and RTD are fairly interchangeable really through
• 6:21
  the through much of the the modern era and really gimbal
• 6:26
  comes in and he and he delivers something a little bit
• 6:27
  different. So I think every episode that
• 6:30
  years is really different. What do you say about women in
• 6:33
  history? No wonder what the fascists were
• 6:35
  annoyed. Like, not only are we being
• 6:37
  lectured that we've got to recycle things and things like
• 6:40
  that, you want me to care about women in history when Doctor
• 6:44
  Who, you know, has ignored that sort of thing for the last 50
• 6:46
  years? Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:48
  I mean, I felt I felt in many ways, and I'm sure this is not
• 6:50
  an original for, but I felt in many ways he was trying to bring
• 6:54
  kind of classic who have a sensibility back into it a
• 6:57
  little bit certainly. And it obviously you got the
• 7:00
  four regulars. So that instantly makes you
• 7:02
  think of Hartnell's period and that kind of emphasis on the
• 7:06
  educational and a lot, you know, there's a lot to learn from from
• 7:10
  the episodes in season series 11 and then and on from there from,
• 7:14
  you know, the rest of the time. I know you like Kablam because
• 7:17
  we've exchanged a few messages about that, but if you were
• 7:20
  putting that aside, what's your highlight from this year?
• 7:24
  Well, I've spent a lot of time with Gablan over the last couple
• 7:27
  of weeks since we arranged this. So at the minute I would say,
• 7:32
  yeah, I really like this episode a lot.
• 7:35
  I think The Woman Who Fell to Earth is fantastic.
• 7:39
  A fantastic opener, fantastic introduction to to the Doctor
• 7:43
  and to the to that group of of companions.
• 7:47
  So those really stand out. The last 10 minutes of Demons of
• 7:53
  the Punjab from the bit where he says something is coming and the
• 7:57
  horses start coming in in slow motion, that might be my
• 8:00
  favorite 10 minutes of all of Doctor Who.
• 8:02
  I just think it's like, so richly filmed and so powerful.
• 8:08
  Yeah, that's definitely what they were doing with history in
• 8:11
  this year was so refreshing. Yeah, absolutely Demons the
• 8:15
  Punjab again, like just doing something really different and
• 8:18
  doing a period of history that growing up British we really
• 8:23
  ought to know about and and. Shameful that we don't, isn't
• 8:26
  it? Yeah, 100%, yeah.
• 8:28
  Because I don't have anything about the partition at all being
• 8:31
  told me. It's purely that, and I don't
• 8:33
  know if you watched any of the Marvel shows, but Miss Marvel
• 8:35
  touches on that as well. I heard about that, yeah.
• 8:38
  So I mean that is my sold education on that whole period.
• 8:42
  And like, you know, this is really important to to British
• 8:47
  history and a really important to a lot of people living in
• 8:49
  Britain as well. So yeah, absolutely.
• 8:51
  I think the trouble is, you know, I don't know if you saw
• 8:53
  those sort of fascist mobs that were running through the streets
• 8:56
  in London recently, you know, wearing flags like they're
• 9:00
  superheroes. I, I just rather think that
• 9:03
  perhaps people wish that the empire was still there.
• 9:06
  You know, that's why we don't talk about this stuff.
• 9:08
  They're secretly brewing up. It's going to happen again.
• 9:11
  Well, you know, funny. It's funny you should say,
• 9:13
  though, you look at a lot of classic cue and that it's
• 9:16
  actively pointing a finger at the colonial past of Britain.
• 9:20
  And. And it feels like back in those
• 9:22
  days, back in the 70s in particular, that there was an
• 9:26
  understanding that the emperor had come to an end and actually
• 9:29
  hadn't all been brilliant and we had done some crap.
• 9:32
  But yeah, since then, generations have kind of
• 9:34
  forgotten all of that. And all they see is like the
• 9:36
  Saint George's Cross, like, you know, and, and they just want
• 9:40
  to. We're on politics already.
• 9:41
  Polled. Bloody jobs, all right?
• 9:44
  We were having a good chat before this podcast and then
• 9:47
  we've got 10 minutes in. We've got really deep so.
• 9:50
  Beg your pardon? All right, we'll get too early
• 9:53
  for that. Oh, your wife's a quick behave.
• 9:59
  No, but I could have taken people's jobs.
• 10:04
  Yes, because this has a lot of things to say.
• 10:09
  And I think it was only watching it this morning, I realized how
• 10:11
  many things it had to say about technology, about the direction
• 10:16
  we are genuinely heading in. I mean, I'm in work in a shop
• 10:20
  where they literally will force a till open because they don't
• 10:24
  want the machines taking our jobs.
• 10:26
  As if, as if that would actually, but you know, it is
• 10:31
  kind of happening. The more automated we get, the
• 10:33
  less people centre jobs we're going to have.
• 10:36
  And obviously there is the entire the whole controversial
• 10:40
  subject of Amazon and what people perceive this episode to
• 10:45
  be saying about Amazon now. Yeah, let's let's just get that
• 10:49
  out of the window right now. What's your opinion on this?
• 10:53
  So I'm going to, you know, my very first podcast and I'm going
• 10:56
  to reveal myself to be a corporate shield and come out
• 10:59
  and say, no. I genuinely think this is
• 11:04
  slightly misunderstood. This episode, I think reading it
• 11:08
  as a kind of reading it as being pro Amazon kind of misses the
• 11:14
  point a little bit. Yeah, it is very much obviously
• 11:18
  a parody of Amazon. It's clear that that's what
• 11:21
  they're going for like a space Amazon, but actually it's not
• 11:24
  really pro. It's not pro corporation.
• 11:28
  I think I think a lot of people and I think when we watch stuff,
• 11:31
  we get very used to what to expect from something.
• 11:35
  And it's so many that the trope of like the evil corporation is
• 11:39
  so common. You know, that turns up in
• 11:41
  everything, you know, not only Doctor Who, but pretty much
• 11:43
  every drama. So we already conditioned to
• 11:45
  think that big business is bad. And then on top of that, people
• 11:49
  will have their own kind of real world opinions on what Amazon
• 11:52
  are like and, and, and, and you know, how they treat their
• 11:56
  workers. So we're kind of bringing all
• 11:58
  that baggage into to watching this.
• 12:00
  But actually really when we dig into it, obviously cutting to
• 12:04
  the end and the spoiler at the end is that it's it's the system
• 12:07
  that's in problem in trouble is that it makes it makes it clear
• 12:12
  that he's talking about a system.
• 12:14
  It's not it's not talking about a corporation, It's not talking
• 12:18
  about blame as a business. It's saying the system is in
• 12:21
  trouble. It actually going back through
• 12:23
  it, it mentions the word system. So I've got it written down
• 12:26
  here. So it's like 36 times or
• 12:28
  something like that in the script.
• 12:30
  In fact, Jodie says it in more or less her first line heard.
• 12:33
  She talks about getting used to the systems in the TARDIS,
• 12:37
  right. So it's banging this point home
• 12:39
  that it's actually about a system.
• 12:41
  It's about the AI, the kind of artificial intelligence of of
• 12:46
  Kablam as a as an entity that's in trouble rather than the
• 12:50
  business. So yeah, I don't think it's, I
• 12:53
  don't think it's pro Amazon or Probusiness.
• 12:54
  In the same breath, there is an explicit line where the doctor
• 12:58
  says the systems aren't the problem, it's the people that
• 13:03
  abuse them that are the problems.
• 13:05
  And I think that is true. I don't think Amazon as an idea
• 13:09
  is a problem, you know, like a warehouse that sends out parcels
• 13:14
  and there are levels of of worker and that is structured.
• 13:20
  It's, it's how those people are treated.
• 13:22
  It's how certain managers come in.
• 13:24
  It's, you know, how people are monitored and things like that.
• 13:28
  But. I think 100% agree because I
• 13:31
  just, although I just said it's not about corporations, it's not
• 13:34
  about business, it is about that as well.
• 13:37
  And it is about that because you're right, that line is
• 13:40
  probably the most contentious bit.
• 13:42
  That's the bit that people kind of get hung up on that line
• 13:44
  about, you know, people taking advantage of systems.
• 13:47
  A a business, a corporation is a system.
• 13:51
  And like when you get to the heart of it, right, Amazon
• 13:53
  starts as a bookseller and like you do the book club, right?
• 13:56
  You, you, you podcast about books, you podcast and, and you
• 13:59
  want people to read books. Selling books isn't necessarily
• 14:03
  a bad thing, is it? That's not a so, but, but
• 14:07
  that's, that's where it starts. But obviously, you know, you've
• 14:09
  got shareholders, you've got other business concerns and they
• 14:13
  want to grow and, and businesses always need to grow, otherwise
• 14:16
  they kind of disappear. So.
• 14:18
  So yeah, people. Get greedy and then they exploit
• 14:21
  people and it happens again and again and again within
• 14:24
  corporations and businesses and we probably all work for those
• 14:27
  people. Exactly.
• 14:28
  Yeah, the. Same periphery.
• 14:30
  It shows levels of management that are very humane in this
• 14:33
  episode. It shows you the the workers on
• 14:36
  the floor and how they are real people living real lives and
• 14:40
  doing this work for their families and things like that.
• 14:43
  So I think it has a a beating heart in that respect as well.
• 14:46
  And all the regular sort of get a different worker to have a
• 14:50
  relationship with. So yeah, there are layers.
• 14:53
  There's nuance to what it's doing.
• 14:55
  Whereas I think people just watch that.
• 14:57
  Well, I mean, to be honest with you, I think it's just people
• 14:59
  that don't want a woman as a doctor and are looking for any,
• 15:03
  any idea, any line, any woke moment that they can grab hold
• 15:08
  of and go see that terrible season, you know?
• 15:13
  It's not it's not the only story where somebody who is being an
• 15:18
  activist or taking a stance on something is show like and
• 15:22
  probably has a point about something.
• 15:23
  It is revealed to be the baddie lie instantly as a classic boy.
• 15:28
  Think of invasion of the dinosaurs.
• 15:29
  You know, like they just want to the world to be a better,
• 15:33
  greener place. Left wing fascists.
• 15:36
  Exactly. Yeah, it's exactly that.
• 15:38
  So yeah. But but then they forget as
• 15:41
  well. This is a a rollicking great
• 15:43
  adventure with sinister robots of death esque smiling killers,
• 15:48
  you know that have that get decapitated on a regular basis.
• 15:51
  Thumbs up. That wonderful sequence, whether
• 15:54
  all of the conveyors, you know, that's great adventure, lots of
• 15:59
  witty lines. There's a romance in there as
• 16:01
  well, a tragedy. The idea of the bubble wrap,
• 16:03
  which is just awesome. There's so much to this.
• 16:07
  I, I, I think it's kind of unfairly underrated.
• 16:12
  I I would genuinely agree and, and like, I enjoyed it before I,
• 16:15
  you know, when I said I would like to do it and I've really
• 16:18
  grown to love it, watching it like repeatedly and actually
• 16:22
  digging into it. It's so clever.
• 16:23
  I really genuinely think there's a lot to the script and, and it
• 16:26
  is saying a lot. Yeah, absolutely.
• 16:28
  Literally could see this as a 7th doctor and a story.
• 16:32
  It's so Cartmel this story. You know.
• 16:36
  In fact, they did a big finish called The Warehouse, right,
• 16:39
  which tries to do a similar right.
• 16:41
  It's nowhere. Jesus Christ, guys, you go and
• 16:44
  listen to that, all right? That's really boring.
• 16:46
  Yeah. Then you'll come back and
• 16:47
  appreciate Kabam Kabam in a whole new way.
• 16:51
  But just just the way it takes a wacky idea of space Amazon.
• 16:55
  It just reminds me of like Dragonfly, you know, space
• 16:58
  Iceland or something like. That right, right.
• 17:00
  The freezer centre. Yeah, yeah.
• 17:01
  Yeah, and doing, you know, like Murder House from Paradise
• 17:05
  Towers. And so taking a big wacky idea
• 17:07
  and then just having a ton of fun with it.
• 17:11
  Are you keen on Jodie? Yes, actually I was thinking
• 17:14
  about this again in the run up to this.
• 17:18
  I'm thinking back actually to my initial impression when when I
• 17:21
  series 11 first started and I think I actually sold her short
• 17:25
  a little bit when when she first started.
• 17:26
  As I say, I really enjoyed Chibal's approach.
• 17:29
  I liked what they were doing with it, but I kind of my
• 17:32
  initial impression was that she would it was kind of pitching it
• 17:36
  somewhere between Tennant and Smith.
• 17:37
  So it felt like it was it felt it was a bit like a kind of bog
• 17:42
  standard modern era doctor. She was good and I enjoyed her
• 17:46
  and like like Tom Baker says, nobody fails in the roles.
• 17:49
  So I thought she was doing a good job, but I didn't hadn't
• 17:52
  really tuned into the subtleties.
• 17:54
  But the more you like subsequent years, the next series and into
• 17:58
  flux and again watching this again, you get to see all the
• 18:02
  little bits of business that she does.
• 18:04
  There's so much in in her performance in this.
• 18:06
  I I genuinely think she's brilliant.
• 18:08
  And so yes, definitely, I absolutely, definitely fan.
• 18:11
  And when she returned for for that recent cameo.
• 18:16
  Amazing. Cinema erupted where I was and I
• 18:20
  thought like when I heard her voice, I thought, oh God, here
• 18:22
  we go, I'm going to hear booze. I was like punching the air and
• 18:26
  I, I don't really wanna denigrate Shooty, but it was
• 18:29
  almost like I felt, ohh, the doctor's back, right?
• 18:33
  Like how lovely. And, and you're right, the gamut
• 18:36
  that she shows here from, you know, at the start, that sort of
• 18:39
  excited child by God, the Kablan man to the fury.
• 18:44
  She's like, you know, this, this is murder.
• 18:47
  You know you're not an activist. She's really, she's really
• 18:50
  pissed off with Slade and and Judy.
• 18:54
  Yeah. And yeah, she's really like, you
• 18:57
  better be telling me the truth, Yeah.
• 18:59
  And then she'll turn around and goes too bombastic.
• 19:01
  And I'll just love that. This is amazing, right?
• 19:04
  Because when she goes. Have you never hidden in an
• 19:07
  alcove before? You haven't lived.
• 19:09
  Come on. Oh, did I tell you about that
• 19:11
  wasp I met with Agatha Christie? You know?
• 19:13
  Oh, so fun, man. So fun.
• 19:16
  Well, look, talking of fun, should we go and watch this
• 19:19
  thing? Yeah.
• 19:20
  Let's you and me go and have some fun.
• 19:22
  Yeah. OK, well, now this is where we
• 19:25
  should see if you're a professional a lot if we can
• 19:27
  play, play at exactly the same time, See.
• 19:31
  OK, do you want to count this in?
• 19:33
  Yeah, sure. Hang on.
• 19:36
  All right, here we go. I'm more nervous about doing
• 19:39
  this than anything else. Well, it's technology.
• 19:43
  So if if the technology comes to my job, then they will take it
• 19:48
  within a second because I'm so inept at all of this stuff.
• 19:51
  So. I usually get a zoom update
• 19:55
  every time I'm about to go on a call, you know?
• 19:58
  Right then. OK, here we go. 321 here.
• 20:02
  We go Oh no pre title sequence. No, straight into the tiles.
• 20:08
  I kind of like that. I think that's kind of old
• 20:10
  school. I can see why they'd want to do
• 20:12
  the cold open, but I think I prefer this do.
• 20:16
  You like this great oily puddle that the Doctor Who emerges out
• 20:19
  of? I do.
• 20:20
  It reminds me again, I mean, I'll probably bang on about this
• 20:24
  quite a lot, but it reminds me of the classic opening, like,
• 20:27
  you know, the the how round heart and all entroutement
• 20:31
  effects. That's what it gives me and
• 20:32
  that's what I'm sure they're going for.
• 20:34
  So absolutely, yeah. I have to take a moment to say
• 20:37
  hurrah, Pete Mutai is right in a Doctor Who episode because my
• 20:40
  over off is a massive neighbors fan and he wrote neighbors for
• 20:43
  years and he's a huge he's a friend of the flight for
• 20:47
  entirety crowd. So everyone was so happy when he
• 20:49
  was doing an episode and there was all cross about the Amazon
• 20:53
  thing. So whoops.
• 20:54
  Well, I mean, I think he's brilliant.
• 20:56
  I mean, I'm not interested at all in the war against the land
• 21:00
  and the sea or whatever, but I mean, the fact that he's writing
• 21:03
  it is the one thing that actually makes me interested to
• 21:06
  see. We might be surprised by it, you
• 21:08
  know? Yeah, yeah.
• 21:08
  I haven't. I wasn't that impressed with the
• 21:10
  trailer, but I'm like, well, he hasn't let me down with an
• 21:13
  episode yet. Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 21:16
  Anyway, we we've got the Kablan man.
• 21:18
  Oh God. I mean, even now when he's
• 21:19
  trying to be cheerful, he looks fucking creepy.
• 21:22
  I don't like the facsimile of the human face and whatever
• 21:25
  Doctor Who does that the the the fixed grin, it creeps me out.
• 21:30
  Well, this, this, it feels like it's really the successor to
• 21:33
  like the the vocal or something like that.
• 21:35
  You know, it really is like a modern, you know, robot of death
• 21:39
  just looks fantastic design. Clowns in greatest show.
• 21:42
  Oh. Yeah, exactly the.
• 21:43
  Smiling carnival masts in Terror of the Autumns.
• 21:46
  It's whenever it's just a fixed grip.
• 21:48
  There's some scenes later where Yas is down in the the vaults
• 21:52
  and it's just still and grinning and the camera lingers on the
• 21:57
  face. I was like I was watching the
• 21:58
  the dead of the morning today going.
• 22:00
  Oh God, it's scary. I love the Oh, sorry, no, no.
• 22:05
  Go on, go on, I. Was going to say, I love the
• 22:07
  fact that he gets a little Jingle as well when he's when he
• 22:09
  comes onto the screen. So he gets like a little, you
• 22:11
  know, the music kind of is light and breezy.
• 22:14
  So I love that. Jody is wearing affairs, which
• 22:17
  is a cute little touch. Yeah, and she.
• 22:19
  Didn't do a lot of that. He didn't do a lot of tips back
• 22:22
  to the previous era, but every now and again he was like, no,
• 22:24
  no, OK, we're all part of the same show.
• 22:27
  And he's. Space Amazon.
• 22:29
  Yeah, beautiful, isn't it? I mean, the money's really on
• 22:32
  the screen with this. It just looks brilliant.
• 22:34
  So have they just gone on to some car park roofer then?
• 22:37
  CGI and everything. Else certainly looks like a.
• 22:40
  Bit like the sun makers. You know, very much like the sun
• 22:42
  makers. I'll get thrown off fair.
• 22:44
  Enough. I mean, you can tell us all
• 22:46
  mate, there's not a soul around. Yeah, yeah.
• 22:49
  But I love it. The great sci-fi Vista of this
• 22:52
  big facility with the planet there in the background looks
• 22:55
  amazing. Now, already we've had Ryan
• 23:00
  playing with bubble wrap in that first scene.
• 23:03
  So it's there and he and he, he's doing this, but he doesn't
• 23:06
  pop it. Right, right.
• 23:08
  It is seeded all the way through.
• 23:10
  So like, yeah. And you know, Ryan talking about
• 23:12
  his work experience as well. He's his life experience.
• 23:16
  He gets, he gets ragged on quite a bit, doesn't he?
• 23:18
  Like people aren't very happy with him.
• 23:20
  But I think he's really good here.
• 23:21
  I like Ryan. I think it was an attempt to do
• 23:25
  something very different. Yeah.
• 23:26
  And I just like the fact that he's a sensitive, young black
• 23:30
  male. I think that's something we
• 23:33
  don't see enough of on television.
• 23:35
  And certainly scenes like, gosh, you go to a resolution where
• 23:38
  he's talking to his dad in the cafe.
• 23:40
  It's really good drama. It's very well written.
• 23:44
  Yeah. Absolutely.
• 23:46
  I I do wonder if that's maybe where his story should have
• 23:48
  ended because I don't really think he gets too much to do in
• 23:50
  that second year. Yeah, maybe, maybe not so much,
• 23:53
  but so yeah, no, I, I it really the series 11 is his story,
• 23:57
  absolutely. And here it kind of, it reminds
• 24:01
  me of his dyspraxia quite gently through the episode and and in
• 24:06
  points where it makes sense to talk about it, yeah, it kind of
• 24:10
  makes it part of the story. I mean, we've we've just gone
• 24:12
  through, you know, the riches of the guest cast here.
• 24:15
  Oh yeah. We didn't even talk about.
• 24:18
  Me Max, just been on it. And Julie, will you please help
• 24:21
  me with her surname? I was really hoping you were
• 24:23
  going to say that fuck everything down.
• 24:25
  Hezmet. Yeah, her.
• 24:27
  From Corrie. Judy from Corrie, yeah.
• 24:29
  Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
• 24:30
  Yeah, I think they're both great, but Julie is my favorite
• 24:35
  in this. She is brilliant.
• 24:37
  She like she genuinely feels like a genuine person you would
• 24:41
  meet at work. Feels very much like that HRE
• 24:44
  type. She's got all of the corporate
• 24:46
  speaks and I, and I think this episode does actually kind of
• 24:50
  have a kind of pointed thing to say about that kind of corporate
• 24:53
  speak about about actually, when you boil it down, HR human
• 24:57
  resources is a pretty weird thing.
• 24:59
  So where she's talking here about organic workers and and
• 25:02
  people powering it is weird. It's odd but she comes across as
• 25:07
  genuine and and. I've had all this training all
• 25:09
  right. Paul, why I can speak.
• 25:11
  All of this lingo. Right.
• 25:13
  That's it. We've we all have to do the, the
• 25:15
  diversity and work and all, all of that.
• 25:18
  And yeah, absolutely. Yeah, is is really on the on the
• 25:22
  money when it comes to that kind of Cobra culture.
• 25:24
  But there's a few moments where she sort of plays it a little
• 25:27
  bit sinister. So you're wondering, OK, is she
• 25:29
  involved in this? And then the zinger for me was
• 25:32
  in a very tense moment in the office when she just runs over
• 25:35
  and pulls the head off the you are so cool.
• 25:40
  Although those heads off come off quite easily.
• 25:44
  Yeah, yeah, surprisingly fragile.
• 25:46
  But then I can I can imagine that a corporation like that is
• 25:49
  going to cut corners somewhere. Maybe they do though.
• 25:51
  Have you ever tried pulling someone's head off?
• 25:53
  I've never tried. No, no.
• 25:57
  I thought it'd be done for murder.
• 25:58
  I won't try it unless it annoys me a lot.
• 26:04
  Oh, here we go. Sport stack.
• 26:06
  That's where Ryan used to it. And we've heard as well that
• 26:08
  he's worked in warehouses. I think he's just a normal kid.
• 26:11
  You're right. He's not.
• 26:13
  You know, the mysterious girl. He's not, you know, Clara, the
• 26:16
  most important person in the universe.
• 26:18
  It's kind of refreshing. 100% that's exactly what again,
• 26:22
  another one of those reasons I love the chip on era Yeah, I
• 26:25
  really dislike that whole. The companion has to be the most
• 26:29
  important person in the room. You know, it should be about
• 26:32
  people wanting to travel with a doctor and have.
• 26:35
  Fun. Well, if you're going to do it,
• 26:36
  like, do it once, Yeah. It's what made Bill so
• 26:38
  refreshing. When Bill came along, it was so
• 26:41
  refreshing. And then she got shot in the
• 26:43
  chest and turned into a puzzle. What is going on when this pair,
• 26:48
  when Ryan and Graham, I just went, you know what, I think
• 26:51
  this is where we get off. But it's been wonderful.
• 26:54
  I was like, that's so refreshing, right?
• 26:56
  Totally. I mean, now when I worked for
• 27:00
  Gardeners Books, you know, I, I was in the offices, I was in the
• 27:04
  admin team. I ran it for a bit.
• 27:06
  Can you believe that they had me run in the admin?
• 27:08
  Team, I can totally believe you. Being a people manager, you've
• 27:10
  got that unless you likeness of touch.
• 27:13
  Yeah, but I have no structure, no, no sense of urgency or
• 27:17
  anything. I didn't do it for long, but we
• 27:20
  did go to the warehouse quite a bit and it was just this setup.
• 27:23
  It was the Amazon setup of, you know, people packing parcels.
• 27:26
  They were so happy though. They were a really happy.
• 27:28
  Crowd Yeah, I can. I, you know, I've done plenty of
• 27:33
  jobs like that in the past. We talked before about before
• 27:35
  the call about supermarket stuff.
• 27:37
  But as a student, I I worked in various.
• 27:40
  I worked for one week in a crab factory.
• 27:42
  Can you believe Joe? What do you do in a crab
• 27:44
  factory? That was that.
• 27:47
  That is crab, the food, right? You trab the food?
• 27:49
  Yeah, you basically spend all day in a in a giant fridge
• 27:52
  scooping out crab meat from from the the joints and the arms.
• 27:56
  Only a week is. It only a week, yeah, I didn't
• 27:59
  didn't last to that. I don't think you had a future
• 28:03
  in Crab. You know, no, my destiny lied
• 28:06
  elsewhere. But like, like, there's so much
• 28:09
  happening here. Is talking over a lot of it, but
• 28:12
  oh, I love this. The group loop thing, yeah,
• 28:14
  yeah. That's that's very Amazon,
• 28:16
  right, Right. We're making a point in.
• 28:18
  Statement here. About how that is wrong to
• 28:21
  monitor people like this. Yeah, but but like that's, I
• 28:24
  mean, maybe not to this extreme, but that's the kind of thing
• 28:27
  that happens in everybody's job. We're all kind of your
• 28:30
  performances looked at, you know, whatever you do.
• 28:33
  So yeah. And you?
• 28:34
  You know, I mean, I had a job, not my current one, but I had a
• 28:37
  job where you literally clocked in and out on your brakes.
• 28:40
  So they, they would literally monitor the time you clocked in
• 28:43
  and out on every part of your day.
• 28:45
  Oh man, Graham and the mop and bucket.
• 28:48
  This is kind of this is quite smart, though, because the
• 28:51
  doctor was supposed to have that job.
• 28:52
  So the doctor, the system wants the doctor to help it.
• 28:56
  So is putting putting the doctor when she needs to be.
• 29:01
  But they make a joke obviously about Graham having to do the
• 29:03
  job. But but actually that's really
• 29:05
  smart. Like as that junior, the most
• 29:07
  low position in the in the business is actually the most
• 29:10
  important one. And you know, I love as well one
• 29:14
  of the big criticisms of the era is there's too many companions
• 29:16
  that don't get enough to do so. Ryan here has a relationship
• 29:20
  with Kira, Yas has a relationship with Lee Mac's
• 29:24
  character, and Graham has a relationship with what would
• 29:27
  turn out to be the terrorist of the week.
• 29:30
  Indeed. But we, of course, we don't know
• 29:32
  anything about that. And of course, Kira.
• 29:34
  And what's the terrorist name? I've forgotten Charlie.
• 29:38
  That's great name. Obviously they've got a really,
• 29:42
  there's just lots happening in this for 45 minutes.
• 29:45
  I just don't think you can get bored.
• 29:47
  No, totally a pick My Toy does a similar trick with Praxius the
• 29:51
  year after, where he's got them paired up with different people
• 29:55
  in the story and those people all come together.
• 29:57
  They've all got different roles within that story.
• 30:00
  It's a yeah. So it can be done.
• 30:02
  They can. You can handle that kind of
• 30:04
  larger group of regulars. And I think he was free for free
• 30:07
  with Lucky Day. Actually.
• 30:09
  I loved Lucky Day when it came out, but it is less busy of an
• 30:13
  episode. But yeah, it's all been around
• 30:16
  that big twist, isn't it? Whereas this has several twists
• 30:19
  today. For me, I think it didn't land
• 30:21
  as well because I spoiled on it. That's what the only story I was
• 30:24
  spoiled on. Yeah, yeah.
• 30:26
  Explored me that twist. Right.
• 30:28
  I mean, I, yeah, I was kind of just watching it expecting to
• 30:31
  get to that point. So but don't.
• 30:34
  Spoil you on that, give me a name.
• 30:36
  I can't remember, it's just, it's just me being on social
• 30:39
  media when I shouldn't have been rather.
• 30:40
  Than coming for you. All right, you all their
• 30:44
  assholes. Good grief.
• 30:45
  Oh, look at this. She goes.
• 30:46
  She had one present once her whole life.
• 30:49
  A box of chocolates from Judy. I think pretty that might be my
• 30:53
  only criticism of this a little bit is I'm not sure the world
• 30:57
  building always necessarily comes together.
• 30:59
  I don't know if you necessarily get an idea as to who's buying
• 31:02
  all these parcels. Like if she only gets 1A year,
• 31:04
  what are regular people doing on Kandoka?
• 31:08
  I don't know if it's not. Time.
• 31:09
  Is it because? Because it's very involved.
• 31:12
  What's happening in in. Yeah, just the sort of the wide
• 31:15
  world. Have you read the book?
• 31:16
  I haven't no and I was thinking I'm really awkward.
• 31:19
  Starts with a family receiving a present.
• 31:23
  So I think even pigment I went do you know what?
• 31:25
  I only sort of half did the world building here.
• 31:28
  Yeah, yeah. But The Witch Finders does a
• 31:30
  similar thing. Like, that's not a great book,
• 31:32
  but it really expands all the characters.
• 31:36
  Now Lee Mack is basically playing Lee Mack.
• 31:38
  There's not, there's not a great deal of acting occurring here,
• 31:40
  but he plays Lee Mack really well.
• 31:43
  I mean, that's not a million miles from what Bradley Watts is
• 31:46
  doing or what. The thing is is that John Bishop
• 31:51
  and Bradley Walsh and Lee Mack are kind of delightful, so
• 31:54
  that's fine. You don't like Lee Mack here?
• 31:57
  I think he's really good. No, I love him.
• 31:59
  No, no, no. I said they're all delightful,
• 32:01
  all three of them. So if Lee Mack's playing Lee
• 32:03
  Mack, happy days. Yeah.
• 32:05
  And there's there's enough to give it emotional resonance at
• 32:08
  the end when she says, can I take this back to his family?
• 32:11
  Yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, he just feels like a
• 32:14
  genuine bloke you would meet at work, somebody who would show
• 32:17
  you the ropes when you first start and look out for you and,
• 32:20
  and make we're going into work fun, you know, like I love this
• 32:24
  joke coming up about his daughter working in the head of
• 32:27
  finance. It's only Mac though.
• 32:30
  Isn't it so yeah, it what I like about all of those character him
• 32:36
  and and Graham and and Dan. What I get from that is that
• 32:41
  what they what they they talk about is the fact that yeah
• 32:46
  Doctor Who's changed. There's a lot of change going on
• 32:48
  and the show is different. But actually, if you are a
• 32:52
  middle-aged white, yes, great bloke, there's still rumored
• 32:55
  table for you. You go looking for that
• 32:57
  representation in the previous era, it's all young girls, older
• 33:02
  women and and and young men. That's about that's about all
• 33:07
  you get. Yeah, so actually, you know,
• 33:09
  we're getting we're getting, I'm getting some representation.
• 33:12
  What it's saying is just don't be a Dick head, you know, and
• 33:14
  you could still be be part of the team, you know.
• 33:17
  So I really, really like Lee Maggie.
• 33:20
  That ship has sailed for me, I'm afraid, Paul, so I can't.
• 33:23
  Oh, my God. Look, there's that.
• 33:24
  Oh wow, clam. Face.
• 33:26
  Oh my God. Direction he is really good.
• 33:28
  Tilts his head, doesn't he as well?
• 33:30
  Like Oh yeah, creepy ass. And doesn't he go, what is it?
• 33:36
  I'll go down there. The last person who went down
• 33:38
  there, we never saw him again. Yet.
• 33:40
  I wouldn't be volunteering for that.
• 33:42
  You. Know no, Off you go, off you go,
• 33:44
  yeah. Paul, do you fancy that?
• 33:45
  I get that bit of shelving, you know, it's been nice knowing.
• 33:49
  Yeah, yeah. Then Yaz, of course, the copper
• 33:53
  or the copper in training go straight after him, doesn't she?
• 33:57
  Yeah, totally. She don't, I mean, because,
• 33:59
  because again, you're thinking, you're thinking the robots are
• 34:02
  the baddies. So she's going into the going
• 34:04
  hang on, these are creepy robots.
• 34:07
  You know I want to follow this up so.
• 34:10
  Man, it gets nothing to do in 11.
• 34:12
  It's bullshit. Right, right.
• 34:15
  It's absolutely bullshit a rat is in the UK.
• 34:17
  We're meeting her family demons had a Punjab.
• 34:20
  It's all about her grandmother, right?
• 34:21
  And the the emotional consequences of that here.
• 34:24
  She's got a fresh like she does plenty in 11.
• 34:27
  It's just I think as time goes on, Chibnall realizes what an
• 34:31
  incredible asset he's got and he just gives her more and more to
• 34:35
  do. So come Flux, she's just flying
• 34:37
  at that. But come out of the doctor when
• 34:39
  she's got Dewan's master at gunpoint, right?
• 34:42
  It's just the best, you know? But she is great, I think.
• 34:48
  No, no go. Stop.
• 34:50
  Apologising, you know, talk over me, otherwise I'll keep going.
• 34:53
  It's. Because a slate here coming in,
• 34:56
  he's an obvious buddy and you straight away you're thinking,
• 34:59
  well, he's this, this, he's he's our guy.
• 35:02
  He's the bad guy. But again, he feels like one of
• 35:05
  those kind of people you'd meet at work, somebody who is a bit
• 35:08
  of a Dick, but actually they are wanting to do the best job they
• 35:12
  possibly can. He's sort of a terrible people
• 35:15
  person though, isn't it? Like, yeah, I've worked with
• 35:17
  plenty of people like that and he looks awkward in a suit.
• 35:20
  I think if you look awkward in a suit then there's something.
• 35:24
  I love how the doctor is giving like people management advice
• 35:27
  here, like she's some kind of like a trainer at work or
• 35:30
  something. This is this is brilliant.
• 35:32
  Maybe treat people like human beings.
• 35:35
  Yes, people. I mean my my go to line when I
• 35:39
  was a manager yeah to other managers.
• 35:41
  I did it for five years was it costs nothing to be nice to
• 35:44
  people and if you are nice to people, generally they'll give
• 35:48
  you 100% and if you're a shit they'll give you 20%.
• 35:53
  My, my, the best advice I, I was a people manager for about 5
• 35:56
  minutes as well many, many years ago and I was quite stressed.
• 36:00
  I found it quite stressful. I was quite, quite, I found it
• 36:04
  quite tricky. But I was good at the social
• 36:07
  stuff at work. So I'd, you know, I'd be the
• 36:09
  life and soul of the party when we're in the pub and someone
• 36:11
  just said, oh, bring drunk Paul to work more often.
• 36:16
  And so from my, my people management skills really
• 36:20
  improved when I just kind of relaxed a bit more.
• 36:22
  And and like you say, treat people as they as you'd want to
• 36:24
  be treated. I just found it was all about
• 36:26
  psychology. Right when we had a new star, I
• 36:28
  would just go and spend half a shift with them, get to know
• 36:31
  them. I would ask them about their
• 36:33
  lives. I would make them feel as if
• 36:34
  they were relevant in the store and but at the same time I'd be
• 36:37
  figuring out what their strengths were as they were
• 36:39
  working and then know how to utilize them going forward.
• 36:43
  Like, it's so easy to do those things.
• 36:44
  I'd want to, yeah. I'd want you as my manager.
• 36:47
  Joke, definitely. Well, I don't do it anymore, I'm
• 36:49
  afraid. You know, I just badly managed
• 36:51
  myself now. No, actually, to be fair, the
• 36:55
  management team Ryan is very good.
• 36:56
  If you're listening, you're wonderful.
• 36:59
  Honestly. I'll buy you a pint.
• 37:02
  Yes. Down in the depths.
• 37:04
  Now this. Is so well directed, I think
• 37:06
  this is fantastic. Just beacon through the stacks
• 37:09
  and you see the robot's faces through the stacks.
• 37:11
  Doesn't the face just turn up? Oh God, Oh my.
• 37:13
  I don't want to look, Paul. It's just there.
• 37:16
  Grinning isn't. It at the end.
• 37:18
  Hello, I could not work here with these bloody robots.
• 37:25
  Like I think they tried to do the same thing with the Heavenly
• 37:27
  Host in Voyage of the Damned, but this is way creepier.
• 37:32
  Yeah, I, I, I think those those guys looked a bit too Butch for
• 37:35
  me. I don't know how you feel about
• 37:36
  the design, but they're of them clearly going for like a Volk,
• 37:40
  that beautiful beauty standard. But actually I think this as you
• 37:44
  say the the fake look you're that.
• 37:51
  Blazing eyes. Jesus Christ.
• 37:54
  I mean, this is it. I would fear I might.
• 37:56
  I was dead now at this point, right?
• 37:58
  This grinning cadaver was walking towards me going jazz
• 38:03
  rum. Oh boy.
• 38:07
  Oh, Graham's gone asleep. That's not a great indication of
• 38:10
  the quality of the episode. He's fallen asleep on a mop.
• 38:13
  Yeah, we'd be having words if I was his boss.
• 38:16
  Yeah, now Charlie, the fellow who plays Charlie, I think he
• 38:20
  was in one of the Blu-ray trailers.
• 38:21
  Wasn't he the one with Nicola Bryan?
• 38:23
  Yeah, the one where they go and see the huge statue of Brian
• 38:27
  Blessed. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 38:30
  Oh, right. OK, no, I tried to look up what
• 38:32
  he'd done, but I didn't really. I don't think he had a huge
• 38:34
  amount of credits, or certainly all the stuff I'd seen anyway.
• 38:37
  I was completely fooled the first time I watched this.
• 38:39
  I think it's such a convincing turn.
• 38:41
  I just thought oh God he's that goofy cleaner who's fallen in
• 38:45
  love with one of his Co workers. So when the twist hits, I was
• 38:49
  really surprised. Yeah, yeah, totally.
• 38:53
  It is well seeded. It's a little little like bits
• 38:56
  like there where he comes in and he says he won't shake Graham's
• 38:59
  hands because he's been cleaning the gents, maybe he's been doing
• 39:02
  something else and he's little bits like that.
• 39:05
  But yeah, he's it's a great performance, isn't it?
• 39:08
  I think certainly, particularly when he turns as well and he's
• 39:11
  like absolutely insane by the end as you want all good baddies
• 39:14
  to be. I mean, I won't talk about it
• 39:16
  yet, but the way he goes is just glorious.
• 39:19
  Surrounded by all those Kablan men.
• 39:21
  Oh, this I thought was the cheapest, that they've just gone
• 39:25
  to a park and put some formed plastic furniture on the grass
• 39:29
  and gone. Well, that's the rest.
• 39:30
  I mean, why Is this like a holiday or something?
• 39:34
  The home zone is where they go for their breaks.
• 39:36
  But yeah, you're right, it does. It is basically just, I've no
• 39:39
  idea about the back of the studios.
• 39:41
  Isn't it really? Yeah.
• 39:44
  Yeah, why? Look, he says.
• 39:45
  Have you cleaned up that spill? What do you mean it's a park?
• 39:50
  They both brought their mops to like over like a grassed area.
• 39:53
  Like that's gonna help. Oh boy, the amount of times as
• 39:56
  well. I mean, I yeah, as a manager I
• 39:58
  would never really encourage. Workplace relationships because
• 40:02
  it they are always doomed or, you know, dramatic.
• 40:06
  But I mean, I there was a couple of times when there was just two
• 40:10
  hopeless people like this and you just had to encourage them.
• 40:13
  Will you please go and talk to her?
• 40:15
  Like, well that was me and my wife.
• 40:17
  We met through work and and yeah, she was very flirted with
• 40:20
  me for ages, but I was completely clueless and hadn't
• 40:23
  picked up on it. And yeah, it took a Christmas
• 40:25
  party and people basically thrusting us together, but you
• 40:28
  know. Excuse me?
• 40:30
  Yeah, I know. I regret saying that straight
• 40:32
  away. Remember where you are right?
• 40:35
  Right. Yeah, I forgot who I was talking
• 40:37
  to there, but yeah, they basically just kind of got us
• 40:39
  together and I. Think 20 years later they did a
• 40:42
  pretty good job, you know? Exactly.
• 40:44
  Yeah, it worked out OK. Yeah.
• 40:46
  But here's, here's a doctor like being all, you know, being firm
• 40:51
  and like, like we were saying before about the how she can
• 40:54
  turn that on. She's like playful and fun and
• 40:57
  and childlike. And then she'll just kind of be.
• 41:01
  Yeah. It's a great mystery as well.
• 41:04
  I think of who the hell sent that message and we don't really
• 41:07
  find out until what, 10 minutes before the end of the episode?
• 41:10
  Pretty much, right. Right to the end, Yeah, because
• 41:12
  she's just assuming that. She thinks maybe it could be one
• 41:14
  of the workers putting it in a package.
• 41:17
  Maybe it's the management that have done it that need help.
• 41:19
  And so now she's saying, do you need help?
• 41:21
  Like right. And right up to the end, Slate
• 41:24
  comes at them with a gun because he thinks that they are the
• 41:27
  problem. So like right up to that point
• 41:29
  where he's got the gun on her and and she says, oh, I've never
• 41:32
  warm to you, which is just a brilliant way of putting down a
• 41:35
  bad a bad guy. But right up till then, you
• 41:38
  think he's the bad guy. She doesn't threaten people very
• 41:41
  often, which is something I like about Jodie's doctor.
• 41:43
  But when she does, and when she says, hey, if I even begin to
• 41:46
  suspect that you're hiding something, yeah.
• 41:48
  And she just lets the threat hang in the air, it's great,
• 41:54
  too. Too bombastic, yeah.
• 41:56
  Absolutely felt about right. I kind of liked it actually.
• 42:01
  I won't do it again. I'll stick with boy.
• 42:03
  I like the design in that room as well.
• 42:07
  I was just obsessed watching this this morning.
• 42:09
  The weird walls, the sort of jigsaw puzzle walls everywhere.
• 42:13
  There's a bit about that. We don't want to talk about when
• 42:15
  when the robot comes back in, we're going to talk about that.
• 42:18
  Yeah. Well, you got some trivia.
• 42:20
  Or no, just just kind of like observations.
• 42:22
  But here we go. Without the alcove, you know
• 42:25
  Never lived unless you've hidden in an alcove.
• 42:29
  Frequently, you know, when they come home.
• 42:31
  Yeah. Plus, yeah.
• 42:32
  And then out the window. It's very awkward, but.
• 42:35
  I love how this is riffing on Robots of Death and and stories
• 42:39
  like that. And this is a clear nod to
• 42:40
  Robots of Death. But.
• 42:42
  Ty is a huge gig. He's on the behind the sofas,
• 42:45
  right? And he's watched.
• 42:45
  He's consumed all of Classic Who.
• 42:48
  I love him. I love him on though so he's
• 42:50
  really good. Yeah.
• 42:53
  And this is this is another bit where Charlie you kind of get
• 42:56
  because he says, what does he say?
• 42:58
  He says that she stops him doing what he needs to do or something
• 43:02
  like that. So like, again, it's hinting at
• 43:05
  a purpose and agenda that he's got.
• 43:09
  Yeah, there's enough there to pick up that when it's revealed,
• 43:11
  you go, OK, I've been a fool. I mean, I think the fingers are
• 43:16
  pointing so much at the middle management.
• 43:18
  Yeah, you never even look at Charlie.
• 43:20
  I mean, again, it's what you bring to it.
• 43:22
  And you expect the the bad corporation, the bad bosses, you
• 43:25
  expect them to be the, the villains of the peace, you know,
• 43:28
  and they're using the robots to their own ends because that's,
• 43:31
  we've watched all watched those stories where that's what it is,
• 43:34
  you know, do you? Know what kills me, right?
• 43:36
  Yeah, it's that. And these are people I know,
• 43:38
  right? People that are going to visit
• 43:40
  me next week. So you know exactly what I'm
• 43:41
  talking about. Now, who are the greatest
• 43:44
  criticisms this episode? Yeah, they fucking use Amazon
• 43:47
  all the time. Every bloody day they've got
• 43:49
  Amazon parcels turning up. I'm like, don't you come at
• 43:52
  Kablam? You know, when you're the
• 43:54
  problem? You're the one exploiting these
• 43:56
  poor people. That's like me in lockdown
• 43:58
  swearing I'm never going into a spoons again because of like the
• 44:01
  treatment of workers and then as soon as lockdown finishes, I'm
• 44:04
  straight into my life. The.
• 44:05
  Trouble is like you just can't get another fry up like that for
• 44:09
  599 you. Certainly can't, and you can't
• 44:11
  get like a next day delivery on stuff like you can on Amazon.
• 44:14
  So yeah. Unfortunately, convenience very
• 44:17
  often, you know, sort of pushes the morals out the way.
• 44:20
  Yeah, yeah, 100%. We'd like to think, Oh my God,
• 44:22
  did you see the advert on the wall there?
• 44:24
  The little girl being picked up by the Kabam man, I mean look at
• 44:28
  him and his fucking glowing eyes for God's sake.
• 44:33
  How did that become positive marketing?
• 44:36
  Oh boy, look now. So now we've got all the cases.
• 44:40
  So it's setting up too early later as.
• 44:42
  Well, again, we, we, we got the Charlie has full access to all
• 44:45
  this stuff. He can go where he wants and do.
• 44:47
  Oh, look at that little nod. I love that.
• 44:49
  Jesus Christ, I'll be having dreams about that.
• 44:54
  I think that the only thing that scares me more in the Jodie
• 44:57
  Whittaker era is that fellow with the the fingers that turns
• 45:01
  up at the end of your bed. Do you remember Oh God, the Ian
• 45:06
  Gelder in Can You Hear Me? Imagine waking up in the night
• 45:10
  and seeing him staring at the end of your bed and his fingers
• 45:13
  coming at you. Oh Christ, I'm a bit of a wimp,
• 45:18
  really. I'm honest, you know, I've never
• 45:21
  found Doctor Who actively scary. I can see why people like the
• 45:25
  scary bits, but I think it's because when I was a nipper I
• 45:27
  was so afraid of literally everything that my mum was like,
• 45:31
  well, you know, this is just pretending people making stuff.
• 45:33
  So I kind of latched onto that, that kind of the fact that it's
• 45:37
  made and that there are special effects.
• 45:39
  And so I like to learn the behind the scenes stuff.
• 45:42
  Just you wait until tonight, all right?
• 45:45
  I'm going to come to your house, Put a Kablan man head on with
• 45:49
  glowing eyes. When you've fallen asleep, I'm
• 45:51
  going to turn the eyes on and wait till you wake up.
• 45:53
  I'll be standing there in the dark with those glowing eyes.
• 45:56
  Then we'll see how scared you are.
• 45:58
  Yeah, that might, that might do it, Yeah.
• 46:00
  Your wife will be like who is that strange man in the corner
• 46:02
  of the room? Sorry, he's just taking his
• 46:06
  fingers off and throwing them at us.
• 46:09
  Please do not throw hands at me, Yeah.
• 46:15
  Oh, so now, now our Julie, let's call her our Julie, is working
• 46:19
  with them now, isn't she? Yeah, but the but again, the
• 46:22
  doctor still, you know, still suspects her.
• 46:26
  Well, here's the thing I was going to talk about is the
• 46:28
  background is, is red right? You know, in science fiction and
• 46:31
  in Doctor Who, the classic trope of the evil robot is their eyes
• 46:35
  go red. But he's.
• 46:37
  Dead, Paul. Yeah, but here it's the scenery
• 46:41
  that goes red and the eyes stay white.
• 46:44
  And so that's kind of like a hint that actually is the robots
• 46:46
  aren't aren't being bad. It feels very oppressive, that
• 46:50
  room now, doesn't it? And.
• 46:51
  Then yeah. But this is the bit I swear
• 46:53
  where she takes the head off it's so great.
• 46:56
  But we've also got Charlie runs to the robot like he does later.
• 47:01
  He ignores the doctor saying stand back, skip behind me.
• 47:04
  He's the one approaching the robot.
• 47:07
  I can look at it, he says. Yeah.
• 47:11
  Bloody hell, just punched a hole in the wall.
• 47:14
  Watch watch. Ryan is wait for it.
• 47:16
  Ryan ends up on his arse as well, though he doesn't know if
• 47:18
  you notice this like when the hurricane he comes off.
• 47:23
  Bloody Head coming off, you know, toes and Coal is great at
• 47:29
  physical comedy that fit in all from 55 where he's got the
• 47:32
  Hopper virus and he's just swinging at the air like.
• 47:35
  The bats are. Coming.
• 47:37
  He's really good in this as well.
• 47:38
  Like the bit on the conveyors. Oh, I.
• 47:41
  Love it. Yeah.
• 47:42
  It's like, how could you know? How could they resist doing a
• 47:46
  ride on a conveyor, you know? Right, Totally.
• 47:49
  Particularly they set that up like you can't, you can't do it.
• 47:52
  So obviously we're going to, we're going to do it.
• 47:54
  The doctor goes. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 47:56
  Love that, that, you know, that's not actually scripted.
• 47:59
  I had a look at the script and the way that that's written,
• 48:02
  it's like the fam looks serious and they're taking that
• 48:06
  instruction seriously. They're not supposed to go on
• 48:08
  the Gavert belt. So that's obviously a little bit
• 48:10
  they've worked out in rehearsals or whatever.
• 48:13
  So I love that. Oh, I don't want you to be
• 48:14
  scared or anything, right? But I love a good decapitation.
• 48:18
  You know, like that robot. Just do you ever that be an
• 48:20
  attack of the Cybermen where that hand comes punching out and
• 48:24
  literally decapitates the side. Oh, it's just wonderful.
• 48:27
  Once you've cleaned it out, you could.
• 48:28
  Use a pipe as well and. Yes.
• 48:31
  Smack her head off. Oh, it's wonderful.
• 48:34
  One for the kiddos. Obviously these guys are made by
• 48:37
  the same, same people who made the Cybermen.
• 48:39
  They've got the the weak head that comes off very easily.
• 48:42
  Yeah, well, like I said, I haven't tried, but it might be
• 48:46
  the case. Barry, let's always said that,
• 48:48
  you know, we had weak necks. That's why when you give a sort
• 48:50
  of light chop, that's why people fall unconscious.
• 48:53
  Oh, OK. Apparently the other
• 48:56
  irresistible idea, of course, is deadly bubble wrap, which is
• 49:01
  just gorgeous. Yeah, yeah, classic.
• 49:04
  You know, certainly of the modern era, that classic idea of
• 49:07
  something really, really common being really, really deadly.
• 49:11
  And when we get to the that scene where Kira pops it at the
• 49:14
  end, that's just shocking because, boy, yeah, you're not
• 49:17
  expecting. It's twirly.
• 49:18
  Here we go. Well, at that point, you know
• 49:20
  where Kiras got the bubble, I still didn't realize, even
• 49:24
  though she's going to pop it until it happened.
• 49:26
  But I was like, at that point I was like, Oh yeah, they've made
• 49:29
  her. She's so sort of sickly sweet
• 49:31
  noise. She doesn't really have any
• 49:32
  rough edges. But then when she died, I went,
• 49:35
  oh, she was so nice. And then I realised why they've
• 49:39
  made her so nice. It's kind of like a what we get
• 49:42
  to and we're not there yet, but that's kind of like a quite a
• 49:44
  weird dreamy sequence almost where like you're on the outside
• 49:48
  looking in and you know something bad's going to happen,
• 49:51
  but you can't do anything to stop them doing it.
• 49:53
  And it's so great. It's so great that Charlie is
• 49:57
  the one that's powerless because again, that's another or.
• 50:01
  He can't be behind this then because he loved her and why
• 50:04
  would he kill her? Yeah, I want her.
• 50:07
  Joy here are getting the his. Yeah, this is really good.
• 50:11
  I'd like to say I'm above this sort of thing, but I have been
• 50:13
  employing them off a couple of times and I did walk around with
• 50:16
  a slightly puffed out chest. We've all been there.
• 50:19
  Like, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Better than you?
• 50:25
  Oh dear. I think it's just I've got a
• 50:27
  nice ass, you know? That's why they give it me.
• 50:30
  Yeah, I'll keep you around just for that too.
• 50:32
  Oh, really? You know what?
• 50:35
  Usually I'll do a couple of commentaries before people are
• 50:38
  on the turn. All right.
• 50:39
  OK. You're very easily seduced.
• 50:43
  Oh, like you said, yes, too early.
• 50:47
  People that have symptoms like you by I mean I'd love a little
• 50:52
  robot like that that gives me ideas of what to shop.
• 50:56
  Well, basically we all got one. We've got like the Siri and
• 50:59
  things like that in your house. I mean I.
• 51:00
  Want it to be like a physical? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.
• 51:03
  I love a little robot. Absolutely.
• 51:05
  Like a quark or something with a spinning head that goes, you
• 51:07
  know, my God. The arms come out when they're
• 51:10
  offering the offers. Geeks like you buy second hand
• 51:14
  new adventures for £90. Unfortunately, it's true.
• 51:19
  Oh boy, why did I give them away?
• 51:21
  For God's sakes. And I sold them.
• 51:23
  Now I'm buying them again. It's the whole thing.
• 51:27
  Oh, it's never that, that deep in the 1st, 1st place.
• 51:29
  When I, when those came out, I was, I just joined fandom
• 51:33
  really. And I was, it was like a kind of
• 51:35
  kind of golden age of research and stuff.
• 51:37
  There's loads of non fiction books, reference books, and I
• 51:41
  kind of was diving really into those rather than rather than
• 51:44
  any of the fiction. Paul, get down that chute quick.
• 51:47
  Yeah, well, that's not how we roll.
• 51:50
  Yeah, it's not how we roll, Joe. So we're all going to jump in
• 51:52
  here. I didn't realise we were going
• 51:55
  to be in such a confined space together by the end of this, but
• 51:58
  let's go. I mean, I would be straight down
• 52:00
  there. I love, I love a slide.
• 52:02
  I love a ride. I'd be, I'd be, I'd be happy to
• 52:06
  jump in it until you get to the point where it opens out and you
• 52:08
  can see the whole of the warehouse, and then I'd probably
• 52:10
  just ship my pants. I mean, this is the sort of
• 52:12
  thing, right? This is the sort of thing that
• 52:14
  you we were expecting from Disney when Disney were doing
• 52:17
  Doctor Who, because this is the sort of thing they could turn
• 52:19
  into a ride. You go down the chute onto the
• 52:21
  conveyor belt and then you're literally in a massive load of
• 52:24
  conveyor belts going about. Yeah, Yeah, totally.
• 52:27
  And we, we don't get that at all with RTT two.
• 52:30
  You don't get those kind of big vistas that you don't get that.
• 52:32
  Yeah. And and that's kind of one of
• 52:34
  the reasons. I love.
• 52:37
  I just don't think that's the kind of story he likes to write.
• 52:40
  He likes very character driven things that you know, so there's
• 52:43
  a lot of, you know, scenes of people talking.
• 52:46
  Chippers can't get enough of it. Do you remember in War of the
• 52:48
  Sontarans where Dan and Carl Venista go down?
• 52:50
  That lit up a tube as well. Right.
• 52:53
  Yeah, and. Then go into the water as the
• 52:56
  whole spaceship blows up. Wonderful.
• 52:59
  Blacks is just full of like, you know, big grand scenes, isn't
• 53:04
  it? Like, you know, the visuals are
• 53:06
  amazing. Beautiful.
• 53:08
  Just on that level, Yeah. It really boxed them into a
• 53:11
  corner of having to think visually.
• 53:14
  I think now I've heard people criticize the CGI right in this
• 53:20
  scene. Really one I think it's superb 2
• 53:24
  But have we got this greedy? Have you people watched
• 53:28
  Underworld? I mean, come on, there is so
• 53:34
  much detail there. Yeah, if you're watching Doctor
• 53:38
  Who for the effects anyway, you're probably watching the
• 53:40
  wrong show. I mean, you know, whatever era
• 53:42
  you've got is, there's always gonna be limitations, but I
• 53:45
  genuinely think this looks absolutely fucking amazing.
• 53:47
  If you are gonna spend the money, do something wacky like
• 53:50
  this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 53:52
  This is just a brilliant and I love, I love how Ryan's just
• 53:56
  kind of not Charlie off the conveyor belt.
• 53:59
  With a hi-fi. I can, I can see how if you're
• 54:03
  not enjoying it by this point, then you probably just kind of
• 54:06
  roll your eyes at that. But actually I'm loving this
• 54:08
  episode by now so. Charlie's smiling with them,
• 54:12
  right? They're all on the adventure
• 54:13
  together, so again, there's just no hint that he's involved.
• 54:17
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, do you know what?
• 54:20
  Troy should have gone with him. Actually, it could be quite
• 54:23
  funny. Was that quite bad?
• 54:26
  Cushions loving up the grimmest of workplaces.
• 54:28
  Yeah, I mean Troy would have been quite handy in the battle
• 54:31
  of Rascal and Co Lost. Actually, wouldn't he?
• 54:34
  No, he could have said to. He could have said to.
• 54:37
  What's his name? Tim Shaw.
• 54:39
  People with teeth all over their face by a toothpaste.
• 54:46
  Oh boy, all those horrible tape of God's sakes, Christian.
• 54:52
  I mean, you have some strange, strange ideas all right, but.
• 54:56
  Again, it's really, it's really visual, isn't it?
• 54:58
  So yeah. It's possible that Kablam has
• 55:03
  been compromised. Maybe gave that away the robots.
• 55:06
  That are killing you, you know, the workers that have died.
• 55:11
  But this is great. And watch her now.
• 55:13
  She's doing loads of physical stuff.
• 55:14
  She's hooking things up, she's figuring things out, She's
• 55:17
  putting together all the exposition and she's being
• 55:20
  witty. And people said she didn't get a
• 55:22
  moment in the first series where she was like the Doctor.
• 55:26
  Yeah, there's, I mean, all of this is Doctor E Yeah, I love
• 55:29
  it. That close up there where she's
• 55:30
  just talking straight to Twirly. They're just brilliant.
• 55:33
  And I love this, how Twirly suddenly becomes the system and
• 55:36
  there's like a very subtle difference in the voice.
• 55:38
  It's the same voice though, isn't it?
• 55:40
  But just changed slightly. Yeah, Pitch slightly
• 55:42
  differently. Yeah, Brilliant.
• 55:45
  And that realisation that. Yeah.
• 55:47
  It was the system all along, right?
• 55:50
  OK. Does that mean the system's
• 55:52
  killing people, or it's trying to prevent people from being
• 55:54
  killed? Exactly.
• 55:55
  We still don't. Yeah, we know the system's in
• 55:57
  trouble, but we still don't know who the baddie is.
• 56:00
  And you are right as well, this sequence in a second with the
• 56:03
  bubble wrap. It is, it is dreamy.
• 56:07
  It is, yeah. It's like something out of Twin
• 56:09
  Peaks or something like that. It's just got a a weird sort of
• 56:12
  stillness about it. Yeah, very much so.
• 56:15
  Yeah, absolutely. It's like being in a nightmare
• 56:18
  where things are happening and you can't stop them.
• 56:20
  From physically can't, Yeah, prevent them from doing it.
• 56:23
  It's a yeah, it's a very good female director.
• 56:26
  This she did. Don't spit at me.
• 56:28
  The Surunga conundrum as well, which I rather like.
• 56:32
  But you know what, I watched it again.
• 56:34
  It it for this for this, because I'd I'd probably hadn't enjoyed
• 56:39
  that quite so much on 1st view. And I and I thought, well, I
• 56:42
  super loved the blam. I'd want to go back to that and
• 56:45
  have a look And actually second time round, really enjoyed that
• 56:48
  episode, really good. Moments but the pit where the
• 56:51
  pitting hits the bomb and then goes flying past the screen.
• 56:54
  So it's like, oh lovely, it's like me when I've had a huge fry
• 56:58
  up, you know. Well, I thought that was really
• 57:01
  well directed. You know they're running around
• 57:02
  the same corridors for a whole episode, but.
• 57:04
  This here, the lighting where they're walking through this
• 57:07
  weird section, the three of them.
• 57:10
  Yeah. It's like a a lit scene in Twin
• 57:12
  Peaks as well. It's just very dreamy, very
• 57:15
  trippy. Yeah.
• 57:18
  And one of the, you know, as well as great female characters
• 57:21
  from history, the amount of women that Chris Chudnall
• 57:26
  brought into work on the show. There are more episodes written
• 57:30
  and directed by women. Haunting of Villa di Adati, A
• 57:33
  banger, Rosa, can you hear me? All written and directed by
• 57:37
  women. It's to his credit that he
• 57:40
  diversified that poll. And I think you got something
• 57:43
  different as a result. 100%, yeah.
• 57:46
  As you know, some different voices bring different
• 57:49
  perspectives. And like you, you, you get
• 57:51
  stories which you wouldn't have gotten otherwise if they're told
• 57:54
  by the same two or three people every year.
• 57:58
  Vinay Patel like doing Dimas a Punjab, you know, and that that
• 58:01
  was a really fresh voice. Oh gosh, I can't remember who
• 58:04
  wrote Rosa again, though, a really like a it's a person of
• 58:08
  colour. It's a.
• 58:08
  Blanking on the knee. Yeah, yeah.
• 58:11
  Shame on me for not Marjorie Blackman.
• 58:13
  Oh, that sounds about right. We'll.
• 58:15
  Go with it, Margie. If it's not you, we're.
• 58:17
  Oh, yeah. Look, all the people have been
• 58:19
  turned into sludge. So basically this is what's left
• 58:24
  of the people that have been popped.
• 58:25
  The bubble wrap is that. Right, yes, basically.
• 58:28
  And you'd think that Charlie is the cleaner.
• 58:29
  Probably would have cleared all that up, but he's kind of left
• 58:32
  the big, big puddle of it. I mean, you probably just think
• 58:35
  it's, you know, like waste from the toilets or something.
• 58:38
  Yeah, true. Oh, look at this.
• 58:40
  The music is just amazing. Selling that massive army, just
• 58:43
  incredible. And look at the oh, just look at
• 58:45
  that. Barking awesome.
• 58:47
  That is a great visual. And when all their lies light up
• 58:50
  at the same time. God.
• 58:54
  But here they here we are. They they can't stop Kira.
• 58:56
  Oh, she's got her parcel and they can't stop her opening it.
• 59:00
  It's when Chopin's End, it's just the bubble wrap inside.
• 59:03
  And even then I was like, I don't, I don't get it.
• 59:06
  And then when she pops it, I was.
• 59:07
  Like. Oh, and then the idea was so
• 59:11
  obvious. I was like, why didn't I think
• 59:13
  of that? You know?
• 59:15
  And, you know, let's think about it for a second.
• 59:18
  Yeah. All of those thousands of Kablan
• 59:21
  men off to deliver to unsuspecting families that were
• 59:26
  all going to end up a sludgy mess all over their houses.
• 59:30
  That's kind of horrific. 100% and exactly why the Doctor
• 59:35
  should be stopping Charlie. You know, we talked about
• 59:37
  invasion of the dinosaurs is that kind of thing where maybe
• 59:40
  they've got a point, but they're the way they're going about.
• 59:43
  It's so extreme. And actually this year, the
• 59:46
  Instela Song Contest is another kind of example of that, which I
• 59:51
  can see from your action. You probably your reaction, you
• 59:53
  perhaps didn't enjoy so much. Yeah, I get it.
• 59:56
  Yeah, I. Mean, I think that genuinely had
• 59:58
  a muddy message. Yeah, and I didn't like the way
• 1:00:01
  that the doctor handles and that's felt very UN doctorate to
• 1:00:04
  me. But this feels like the the
• 1:00:06
  doctors at the end here where they're trying to they're trying
• 1:00:09
  to come brainstorm a solution and she's like, that won't work.
• 1:00:13
  And then the you know, Graham's like, well, you've got to do
• 1:00:15
  something. So it's kind of a book or a
• 1:00:18
  solution that's born out of desperation.
• 1:00:20
  And She's Got the Hand is forced.
• 1:00:22
  And they all say to him, Charlie, come on.
• 1:00:25
  You got to get out of there. You're.
• 1:00:26
  Going to die. And he's like no, no, no, no,
• 1:00:28
  no. And then the doctor goes fine,
• 1:00:30
  fine. You stay there.
• 1:00:32
  Then that's your choice. I've given you the option.
• 1:00:35
  Oh, that's amazing, isn't it Just pops gone.
• 1:00:40
  That's. Very.
• 1:00:40
  Charlie's like, fucking hell, I came here to do a terrible
• 1:00:44
  thing. I didn't expect to fall in love.
• 1:00:47
  Yeah. And that's quite a lot to
• 1:00:48
  deliver in a performance, but there it is.
• 1:00:51
  I think he does a brilliant, brilliant job here of showing
• 1:00:54
  his desperation now and he's losing, losing his grip and
• 1:00:57
  yeah, I think he's really good. Of his anger.
• 1:00:59
  In a minute, yeah, he's just. I'm not your mate.
• 1:01:02
  Yeah, yeah. And when he's going on about,
• 1:01:05
  you know, like it'll be 5% and then 2%, right?
• 1:01:09
  So he's got a point. You know, his methods.
• 1:01:13
  What is it? She says the systems aren't the
• 1:01:15
  problem. It's what the people do with it
• 1:01:17
  that's the problem. Exactly.
• 1:01:18
  His his but morality isn't askewed, but his methods
• 1:01:24
  absolutely are. Yeah, and that doesn't make it
• 1:01:27
  look up back to be taught at the beginning.
• 1:01:29
  That doesn't make it pro corporation.
• 1:01:30
  Just because he's the bad guy and he's a clearly a bad guy
• 1:01:34
  doesn't mean that suddenly we're pro space Amazon, you know, it's
• 1:01:38
  the very different things. Here's Graham's line a minute
• 1:01:41
  ago. Reread.
• 1:01:42
  Oh, they're going to kill thousands of their customers.
• 1:01:44
  That's the worst marketing scheme I've ever owned.
• 1:01:49
  Bradley Walsh has made for those lines, isn't he?
• 1:01:51
  Easy. Yeah, he's putting.
• 1:01:52
  So funny. And I think here as well, he
• 1:01:56
  says, no, you're the one. He's malfunctioning me.
• 1:01:59
  Yeah, this horse, I really, this is the same that people have the
• 1:02:02
  biggest issue with. I love it.
• 1:02:05
  I think you see, you see a fierceness in the Doctor that
• 1:02:10
  Jodie wasn't always allowed to bring in that first year.
• 1:02:12
  And I just love her improvising like 15 things at once, right?
• 1:02:18
  Fuck, am I going to solve this? And then at the last minute she
• 1:02:21
  pulls out some magic. Come on.
• 1:02:23
  To it and it's it's an obvious solution as well it's like OK,
• 1:02:27
  these these robots are going to teleport somewhere I need them
• 1:02:30
  to teleport here instead yeah it doesn't feel like she's pulling
• 1:02:34
  her is like something out of her arse you know it's it's it's
• 1:02:37
  actually a solution based on what's in front of her.
• 1:02:40
  Like you said as well, it's all been set up.
• 1:02:42
  Charlie, the person who can go everywhere, that's how we
• 1:02:45
  managed to do it, because he's the main last man.
• 1:02:47
  The bubble wrap, we saw it in the first scene, you know, the
• 1:02:49
  Kablan man we saw in the TARDIS in the first scene.
• 1:02:52
  So we see exactly what's going to happen to all those innocent
• 1:02:55
  families right from the start. Yeah, Charlie says, oh, I saw
• 1:02:58
  you when you first arrived. And he's in that opening lobby
• 1:03:01
  scene as well, so he's right there.
• 1:03:03
  Cleaning the thing, Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 1:03:10
  Oh, and he fell in love. Yes, it happens.
• 1:03:12
  You know it happens. I'll start this podcast.
• 1:03:15
  I didn't expect to fall in love with my other hour, but he
• 1:03:17
  turned up on that Zoom call. We both paused for a second and
• 1:03:20
  we knew we were in trouble. You know it happens, Charlie.
• 1:03:23
  I'm. Sure you didn't try and kill
• 1:03:26
  thousands of people though at the same time.
• 1:03:29
  It pisses me off sometimes. Now I'll think about it, you
• 1:03:32
  know, just one person. Yeah.
• 1:03:36
  Look, obviously I'm not listening to the dialogue here.
• 1:03:38
  I've got that. But he's really selling it.
• 1:03:41
  He is definitely, it's a, it's a fantastic performance.
• 1:03:44
  And, you know, like, please just turn on the news.
• 1:03:48
  Yeah, there are a lot of these idealistic young people right
• 1:03:51
  now that are very angry with what is happening in the world.
• 1:03:55
  These people exist. Sure.
• 1:03:58
  Yeah, generally speaking, they throw paint at artwork and
• 1:04:01
  things like that and sit down or something like that.
• 1:04:04
  But yeah, you know what I mean. And they, and they absolutely
• 1:04:07
  all have a point. And you know that there are only
• 1:04:12
  certain things that will force change.
• 1:04:15
  You know, you have. So it's, it's a fine line, isn't
• 1:04:18
  it? It's interesting, interesting
• 1:04:20
  dilemma. And I think it's good drama for
• 1:04:22
  Doctor Who, as I say, something he's done before and I'm sure
• 1:04:26
  it'll come up again. She's down.
• 1:04:29
  She's going through all of her options.
• 1:04:32
  Will someone please grab the postman's head?
• 1:04:33
  Thank you. I'm going to hook him up to
• 1:04:36
  Twirly. Oh, there you go, Julie,
• 1:04:39
  twisting off another head. She's got the knack, you know?
• 1:04:45
  She's obviously done that before today.
• 1:04:48
  I bet, she said. I'll take the row, right?
• 1:04:49
  But I want to be the one that twists.
• 1:04:51
  On the heads, that's how she, that's how she started in the
• 1:04:54
  company. She's fitting the heads on and
• 1:04:56
  then she worked her way up, I guess.
• 1:04:57
  I mean, it seems a bit robust to death.
• 1:04:58
  Again, you remember they were putting like hypodermic needles
• 1:05:00
  in their heads and all sorts of things.
• 1:05:02
  Absolutely. Oh, the Doctor and twirly, the
• 1:05:06
  greatest companion Doctor team we never had.
• 1:05:10
  But you can see actually she's away from from the action now.
• 1:05:13
  She's just come back now. But she was not there when
• 1:05:15
  Charlie leaves the room. So she's on a working on her
• 1:05:18
  plan and what to do. Doesn't necessarily know that
• 1:05:21
  he's actually run down to the robots.
• 1:05:23
  It's such a simple solution, I want every couple of man to
• 1:05:26
  deliver to themselves. And then although I figured
• 1:05:32
  today that that would maybe take up the whole factory, but it
• 1:05:36
  just seems to take up this very large room.
• 1:05:37
  It's very, they talk about that. They talk about he talks about
• 1:05:40
  getting the explosive right. So it's just really local.
• 1:05:43
  Oh yeah, yeah. OK, Terrace, Dixie covered it
• 1:05:46
  with a line. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:05:48
  Well done. Well done, Pete McKay.
• 1:05:50
  But obviously you have got thousands and thousands of them
• 1:05:52
  all doing at the same time. So you think, yeah, it pretty
• 1:05:53
  would make more more of a? Challenge I would run if I were
• 1:05:57
  you. Yeah, he must have worked.
• 1:05:59
  He must have worked out what she's doing.
• 1:06:00
  It's a. Very funny close up on his face.
• 1:06:02
  Here we go. Look at that.
• 1:06:03
  Amazing. Oh well, is that Charlie there
• 1:06:08
  in the? Breakups of the poster.
• 1:06:09
  Oh, and this line if you want it.
• 1:06:11
  If you want to complain. And but with sort of resigned,
• 1:06:15
  you know, like I've, I've saved the day and someone has died.
• 1:06:19
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But I love a story of a with a
• 1:06:23
  catch phrase. You know, the quest is the quest
• 1:06:25
  and Eldrad must live and and yeah, this story has that.
• 1:06:29
  But you're right, it turns on his head in the end where she
• 1:06:31
  just sad. Yeah, do.
• 1:06:34
  You know, there's a there's a phrase, you know, for hamster, a
• 1:06:36
  blunt pen knife. Fraser Gregory made me this cup,
• 1:06:39
  right? Yeah, which has got the logo on
• 1:06:41
  it. And the phrase is on the other
• 1:06:42
  side. So I've got a question for you.
• 1:06:45
  As I generally say in every episode.
• 1:06:49
  Oh, now they try and suggest here now, right.
• 1:06:51
  We're going to be pro people in the future space, Amazon.
• 1:06:54
  It's going to be 100% people. Now, sometimes Doctor Who
• 1:06:58
  stories end like this. And I think, well, that's a
• 1:07:00
  great idea, but I wonder. This, well, this feels, this
• 1:07:03
  comes into the criticism I've seen as well, this scene, but
• 1:07:06
  actually this feels genuine to me because this is a lot like
• 1:07:09
  when companies buy you pizza when they and they think it's
• 1:07:13
  going to smooth everything over, you know, like whatever the
• 1:07:14
  problems you've got in your workplace, they'll get pizza
• 1:07:18
  lunchtime and then everyone's happy again.
• 1:07:20
  And it's not quite that. What sort of pizza?
• 1:07:23
  Well, usually you get left with a lot of a lot of Margarita or
• 1:07:28
  vegetable pieces, but. I'll only take Texas BBQ
• 1:07:31
  Domino's all. Right.
• 1:07:31
  Oh, nice. Yeah.
• 1:07:32
  Which case all my issues of work will be gone.
• 1:07:35
  Oh, and a big garlic dip as well.
• 1:07:37
  Yeah, totally. But it's that kind of thing, you
• 1:07:39
  know, offering them two, two weeks off, You know, you can see
• 1:07:44
  actually in that scene, Ryan's going, oh, that seems quite a
• 1:07:46
  good idea. He kind of like sort of
• 1:07:48
  gestures. That is it's a good thing.
• 1:07:50
  But actually, I think maybe what that needs is like somebody
• 1:07:53
  rolling their eyes at that scene because it's kind of like,
• 1:07:56
  that's what you do with your make your work, isn't it?
• 1:07:58
  Yeah. Well, there's a lot of there's a
• 1:07:59
  lot of Doctor Who stories like I think like Vengeance Navarros to
• 1:08:03
  some makers where it's like, OK, great, the evil regime has been
• 1:08:07
  deposed and then the Doctor goes, well, see ya.
• 1:08:10
  Yeah, yeah. No, no, wait, wait, wait.
• 1:08:12
  You've just left that place in the hands of for the rebels,
• 1:08:14
  that place that government was corrupt.
• 1:08:17
  Like, OK, I don't think it's necessarily going to be a better
• 1:08:21
  place. 100% that's how the Doctor leaves most stories.
• 1:08:25
  He's just kind of buggering off and kind of leaving them to it,
• 1:08:27
  isn't it? There was a very interestingly
• 1:08:29
  enough, there's I don't know if you've been listening to the
• 1:08:31
  Jodie Big Finishes, but no. One really should do.
• 1:08:34
  The second one that's just come out is called the Return of
• 1:08:37
  Doctor Who, right? And it literally sees them
• 1:08:41
  topple a regime in the opening scene, and then Yas goes, you've
• 1:08:45
  just left. We need to go back and we need
• 1:08:48
  to make sure they're OK. She's like, no, that'll be fine.
• 1:08:52
  I know she makes her go back and it's 50 years later.
• 1:08:55
  And of course, it's way worse than anything that was there
• 1:08:59
  before. And she's having to literally.
• 1:09:01
  And the whole thing is about dealing with consequences and
• 1:09:03
  how the doctor doesn't do that. And I mean, it has some issues,
• 1:09:06
  but the idea was fabulous. It's just not the time here.
• 1:09:11
  That's already 50 minutes packed with incident.
• 1:09:15
  Yeah, in many ways, actually, that little scene where Yaz says
• 1:09:20
  she wants to go see Dan's daughter, that that's the kind
• 1:09:23
  of thing you don't normally get. That's the kind of follow up you
• 1:09:26
  don't wouldn't. So actually having that is
• 1:09:28
  really, really nice. So yeah, you're right.
• 1:09:31
  It's I mean drama. That's drama all for any.
• 1:09:34
  It's not just Doctor Who is it? You can't.
• 1:09:36
  You're never going to wrap everything up completely.
• 1:09:38
  But if you can satisfy whatever the the core issue is, whatever
• 1:09:42
  the the problem is, then yeah, that's for that's, that's what
• 1:09:46
  the doctor does. They come in and they'll fix
• 1:09:48
  your immediate problem, but they aren't hanging around.
• 1:09:51
  Yeah, they're not going to take that job in management like
• 1:09:53
  suggested. That's what made Bad Not Bad
• 1:09:56
  Wolf Boomtown so interesting was when he met up with Marcus
• 1:09:59
  Levine again. And it's like, well, I'm going
• 1:10:01
  to have to take you to be executed, you know, because
• 1:10:04
  we've never had to do that before.
• 1:10:05
  Usually the villain is dead at the.
• 1:10:06
  End Yeah, do. You know the iPlayer has gone on
• 1:10:10
  to the next episode. You know It Takes you away,
• 1:10:12
  which is just another banger I love It takes you away for many,
• 1:10:16
  many reasons. Another female director, He
• 1:10:20
  really was making sweeping changes.
• 1:10:23
  Right. And, and a very, very different
• 1:10:25
  story, really surreal story. So, you know, I think it's the
• 1:10:30
  only one that year that really pushes the boat out like that.
• 1:10:33
  But he goes back to doing things like that again.
• 1:10:36
  Yeah, we're, we're, you know, he's not afraid to.
• 1:10:40
  I mean, Kablam in many ways is a pretty trad story, is perhaps
• 1:10:43
  one of the reasons I like it. You know, it does lean into a
• 1:10:46
  lot of classic kind of tropes. But he he will also do those
• 1:10:50
  kind of weird things and you will have a frog on a chair that
• 1:10:53
  and all that kind of stuff. Fucking love that frog.
• 1:10:56
  On the chair. People when people said like,
• 1:10:58
  you know, the doctor didn't get that moment in series 11, you
• 1:11:02
  know, that's sort of the bit where Kapol body comes out and
• 1:11:04
  says I name you the bone. I mean, I in fact, he hate those
• 1:11:08
  speeches. He never did it back in classic
• 1:11:09
  here. I don't know why we started
• 1:11:11
  doing it in the new series, but when she blew a kiss to another
• 1:11:15
  universe and said, you know, I'll see you later, I was like,
• 1:11:18
  that's her doctor. She's not the grandstander.
• 1:11:21
  She she just embraces life. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 1:11:24
  It's a different way of looking at Doctor Who.
• 1:11:27
  I don't think some people were ready for it.
• 1:11:29
  Weirdly enough I'm hearing now that after RTD 2 a lot of people
• 1:11:34
  are looking back and going do you know what?
• 1:11:37
  It's bad as our fault. No, I mean that's often the case
• 1:11:40
  anyway, isn't it? Because you know anything, the
• 1:11:44
  the most important who have any at any point is the stuff that's
• 1:11:47
  on right now because obviously that affects what happens in the
• 1:11:50
  future. But you can when something's
• 1:11:52
  been and gone and finished, you can look back on it.
• 1:11:55
  So I'm, I'm super glad that some people seem to be more open to
• 1:11:59
  it now because I was like, I've enjoyed it from the beginning.
• 1:12:02
  And yeah, yeah, genuinely. And I did think obviously I sort
• 1:12:07
  of come in once a while ago saying somebody saying that they
• 1:12:11
  didn't feel that Chipnalls Doctor Who felt like Doctor Who.
• 1:12:15
  And I think there's probably because they are a fan of the,
• 1:12:18
  the current, the modern era. So from 2005 onwards and and.
• 1:12:23
  Classic Doctor Who this episode. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:12:26
  I mean, and like, you know, Moffett and the RTT one are
• 1:12:29
  pretty consistent in the way, in the type of stories that they
• 1:12:33
  tell, in the way that they tell them.
• 1:12:34
  So yeah, Chipnall doing something different is going to
• 1:12:37
  feel, if that's all you knew, that is going to feel different.
• 1:12:40
  But yeah, you're right. If you know the classics and you
• 1:12:44
  know how different each era was and you know, you know, John
• 1:12:48
  Perry's tenure is completely different from William
• 1:12:50
  Hartnell's and and different from the special Mccoy's.
• 1:12:54
  I. Mean this here like, you know,
• 1:12:55
  Series 3, season 3 of Doctor Who.
• 1:12:58
  You know, when you get like the Massacre and the Ark and the
• 1:13:01
  Gunfighters and the Celestial Toy Maker back-to-back.
• 1:13:04
  Yeah, really. Radical that diver.
• 1:13:06
  We've just had Demons of the Punjar partition, you know, very
• 1:13:10
  dramatic, very serious, followed by the Witch Hunters, which is,
• 1:13:14
  you know, not only a great sort of folk horror, but it's got
• 1:13:19
  that wonderfully camp performance from Alan Cumming
• 1:13:22
  running. It is amazing.
• 1:13:23
  Witchcraft you. Know and.
• 1:13:25
  This, which is a huge love letter for sort of them, McCoy
• 1:13:28
  and classic who. And then it takes you away.
• 1:13:31
  It's just so diverse. Yeah.
• 1:13:34
  And, and I mean, this is supposed to be the show that is
• 1:13:38
  all about that and can do anything and go anywhere.
• 1:13:40
  So it's really weird that some people don't seem to want that
• 1:13:44
  from Doctor. What?
• 1:13:45
  Do we say at the start, underrated?
• 1:13:48
  Yeah, Paul, we're. Going to have to do our three
• 1:13:52
  fabulous things to end the episode now.
• 1:13:54
  Have you prepared this or are you going to make it up?
• 1:13:57
  I'm probably going to make it up.
• 1:13:58
  I've got like probably some ideas.
• 1:14:00
  So would you? Like to go first?
• 1:14:02
  Yeah, more than happy to. I'm going to go for pigment tie.
• 1:14:07
  I think this is a fantastic first story from him and I think
• 1:14:11
  he does really well in everything else.
• 1:14:12
  He he does in Dog 2 as well. And I think that I'm not sure if
• 1:14:16
  I said it here or before the call, but I'm not really
• 1:14:20
  particularly interested in Sea Devils, not particularly
• 1:14:23
  interested in unit. So I'm not particularly
• 1:14:25
  interested in the spin off, you know, the war between the land
• 1:14:29
  and the sea. But what makes me excited for it
• 1:14:31
  is the fact that he's written it.
• 1:14:32
  So I'm confident that it is going to be really, really good.
• 1:14:36
  I think I think the script here is really clever.
• 1:14:39
  It's definitely got something to say.
• 1:14:40
  And when you when you really look at it actually it, you can
• 1:14:46
  break down a lot of it and and find a lot in it.
• 1:14:48
  You know, we talked about how Charlie's agenda is kind of
• 1:14:52
  seeded through it, but really, really subtly talking about how
• 1:14:56
  he handles the the fam. I think he he's fantastic,
• 1:14:59
  Really, really good. I I'm not that interested in the
• 1:15:02
  Sea Devils and I'm not that mad on UNIT.
• 1:15:05
  I'm certainly not mad on Kate Stewart.
• 1:15:09
  However, I am very interested in grabbing hold of Russell Toby's
• 1:15:13
  ears and riding him like a bucking Bronco.
• 1:15:15
  So I will watch War Between the Ladders and Pete will Tie.
• 1:15:18
  It's another great reason to. Watch maybe that'll happen in
• 1:15:21
  the in the show, maybe someone will grab hold of his legs and.
• 1:15:24
  Be a miracle if I am the one doing that.
• 1:15:29
  That's what I want to see though, Joe.
• 1:15:30
  If if I don't see that, then you know I'm not interested anymore.
• 1:15:33
  0 out of 10. Yeah, complete failure.
• 1:15:38
  Well, I'm going to be facetious to start off with because I just
• 1:15:41
  want to say it, but our Julie decapitating the robots.
• 1:15:44
  All right? I mean, in a series of great
• 1:15:47
  ideas, the bubble wrap space, Amazon, the the sequence of the
• 1:15:52
  conveyor belts. So the thing that made me laugh
• 1:15:55
  the most was watching her run up to two separate robots and just
• 1:15:59
  tear their heads off in a shower of sparks.
• 1:16:02
  I mean, just wonderful. I bet you had the best time on
• 1:16:05
  this. Yeah, I feel like we haven't
• 1:16:06
  talked about her enough, but she is genuinely great in this.
• 1:16:08
  She's Yeah, and she. It's something that Chipnor
• 1:16:12
  actually, I think really got right that Moffett got wrong was
• 1:16:16
  if he brought in a guest actor, he gave them a bloody good role.
• 1:16:20
  Alan Cumming, you know. Oh, actually, you know, well,
• 1:16:24
  Malik didn't have much of A role in that, never mind skip over
• 1:16:27
  him. Yeah, well, you know, two out
• 1:16:29
  three, you can't win them all. I mean, Olivia Coleman, come on.
• 1:16:32
  You've got 2 lines in the 11th, right?
• 1:16:34
  Bill Bailey, was he in the Doctor, The Widow and the
• 1:16:36
  Wardrobe? Sorry, I'll stop going on about
• 1:16:39
  that one. Back to you, Paul. 2nd just the
• 1:16:42
  design of the Gablan man. Just love it.
• 1:16:46
  I love robots. Anyway.
• 1:16:48
  Big part of for the for the listener.
• 1:16:52
  Joe just put his hands up to his eyes.
• 1:16:54
  Creepy though, isn't it? Especially when you grin like
• 1:16:57
  that, yes. That should be at the end of the
• 1:16:59
  bed. OK.
• 1:17:00
  Yeah, yeah. OK, I can.
• 1:17:01
  I can see that now. I can see why that would be
• 1:17:03
  terrifying. You won't be sleeping tonight,
• 1:17:05
  Paul. Keep one eye open.
• 1:17:08
  But no, I just I think I'm in a love.
• 1:17:10
  I always enjoy good design on on Doctor Who.
• 1:17:14
  I talked a bit about enjoying the kind of behind the scenes
• 1:17:17
  stuff and and I've kind of got slight Artie background anyway,
• 1:17:20
  so I love, I love the design of stuff and I just think it's a
• 1:17:25
  cracking design works really well when they're kind of lit in
• 1:17:29
  the dark there. You just see their eyes and you
• 1:17:31
  say the big close up of the face and the grin works really,
• 1:17:33
  really well. And with the music as well, the
• 1:17:37
  little Jingle, you know, like when he arrives and the first
• 1:17:39
  time he arrives and and it's magnified at the end when you've
• 1:17:42
  got the big army of them and it's like, you know, fantastic.
• 1:17:48
  Really, really good. I am going to go back to the
• 1:17:52
  thing I said at the start, and that is that ridiculous
• 1:17:54
  criticism that three companions is too much, because here comes
• 1:17:57
  Pete McDowell to show us how exactly it's done.
• 1:18:01
  They attack the mystery in four different ways.
• 1:18:04
  The four regulars, they all get somebody to talk to that informs
• 1:18:09
  the plot. They all get funny lines and
• 1:18:11
  great moments. The dyspraxia, Graham falling
• 1:18:14
  asleep on the mop and bucket, you know, like Doctor and
• 1:18:17
  Twirly. It's it's a really great use of
• 1:18:21
  all four regulars. And I think it happens more
• 1:18:25
  often than people think. There's there's the odd episode
• 1:18:28
  where someone kind of gets left to the side.
• 1:18:31
  But generally speaking, especially in that second year,
• 1:18:33
  stuff like Dia, Darcy, everyone gets a cut of the pie.
• 1:18:36
  And those praxis like you said, can you hear me?
• 1:18:40
  They all get a mental health storyline in that I think they
• 1:18:43
  get better as they go along. But this is a particularly good
• 1:18:46
  example of having 4 companions and giving them something to do.
• 1:18:49
  I think it's kind of a weird criticism anyway.
• 1:18:51
  I do get it because it's kind of the format of the show that you
• 1:18:55
  have a companion, you have a doctor and, and you split them
• 1:18:58
  up and even if the companion doesn't have a lot of agency,
• 1:19:00
  they'll be involved in the story.
• 1:19:01
  They might, I know, be captured or possessed or whatever.
• 1:19:04
  So they are they are involved in it, but like no other show has
• 1:19:08
  to worry about that. You know, like how many other
• 1:19:10
  shows we've large ensemble costs do you have to like, you know,
• 1:19:17
  Riker wasn't in that episode of The Next Generation very much
• 1:19:20
  tonight. You know, it's a, it's a weird
• 1:19:22
  criticism in many ways. Anna Troy was off on Beta, said.
• 1:19:25
  Oh good. She never really did much
• 1:19:26
  anyway. And when you got three very nice
• 1:19:30
  people, and I like all of the regulars here, that's a lot
• 1:19:34
  better to spend time with Three very, very nice people than to
• 1:19:37
  say, 1 Amy Poland, which is just hideous, you know, like Jesus
• 1:19:41
  Christ. We've got no other alternative.
• 1:19:43
  It's her or nothing. I'd rather he was talking to a
• 1:19:46
  bloody cabbage on his shoulder. Yeah, it's only, I mean, we
• 1:19:49
  talked about how Ryan's stories runs throughout series, you
• 1:19:51
  know, this series 11. But actually they've all got
• 1:19:55
  their, you know, their stories and their arcs.
• 1:19:58
  And when when it splits up like that and you don't just have the
• 1:20:02
  the one really super special person who's at the centre of
• 1:20:04
  the universe, that I think that's much more interesting.
• 1:20:07
  Definitely. Well, unless it's you, Paul, of
• 1:20:09
  course. That's the seller.
• 1:20:10
  Oh well, you. Would absolutely watch that.
• 1:20:13
  Thank you. I think I was going to, I was
• 1:20:17
  going to pick the fan from a third one, but.
• 1:20:19
  That improvise now. Yeah, I have what we're going to
• 1:20:21
  say. I really like the performance of
• 1:20:24
  Charlie and I've got the guy's name written down there
• 1:20:26
  somewhere, but I've lost it. I think he's fantastic.
• 1:20:31
  Really sells that. So that really nervy energy, you
• 1:20:34
  know, somebody who's clearly desperate or like really wants
• 1:20:40
  to, really has an idea as to what you think should be right.
• 1:20:45
  Strong sense of, you know, like what his purpose is, but then
• 1:20:48
  kind of loses it because he's kind of fallen for somebody and
• 1:20:51
  it wasn't part of his plan. I think he's really, really
• 1:20:54
  good. And I'm really sorry that I've
• 1:20:56
  lost the bloke's name, so apologies to whoever he is.
• 1:20:59
  You're very pretty as well though.
• 1:21:00
  You know, whatever your name is, that actor is very pretty.
• 1:21:04
  So I just thought I'd say that. Just in case.
• 1:21:06
  That certainly helps, I'm sure. Yeah.
• 1:21:08
  Yeah. I want I think too.
• 1:21:10
  Oh, no, sorry. I.
• 1:21:11
  Was gonna say the Kira actress is quite pretty as well and I'm
• 1:21:13
  told she's in Bridgeton so. How is she?
• 1:21:17
  That's what my wife said. No one keeps their clothes on in
• 1:21:19
  Bridgeton. Well, this is what I asked had
• 1:21:21
  she got nude and so far not yet, but I'm told that, you know,
• 1:21:25
  maybe next year. So for the the other straight.
• 1:21:28
  Peeled. Exactly.
• 1:21:29
  For the other straight doctor you found out there, you know,
• 1:21:31
  you never know. Did you say the alpha?
• 1:21:33
  There's only two. Of you, there's only two of us.
• 1:21:35
  You and Luke Malloy. That's it.
• 1:21:37
  Oh, no. And all those Scots from the
• 1:21:39
  Polish box. Yeah, well, I suppose my very
• 1:21:43
  last thing then should be I was going to suggest second Akanola,
• 1:21:46
  but I always choose him for Jodie's time.
• 1:21:48
  So I'm going to put the attention somewhere else I
• 1:21:51
  think. I want to say I love that Pete
• 1:21:55
  Buttaya is a massive hard on for the 7th Doctor's era.
• 1:21:58
  This really does feel like the 7th Doctor's era for me.
• 1:22:02
  Just a a quirky comic book setting, a moral, some politics
• 1:22:08
  in there and angry doctor at pertinent points.
• 1:22:12
  You know, with some real things to say about what's happening in
• 1:22:16
  the story. Lots of crazy set pieces.
• 1:22:21
  I I really feel like I could see McCoy and Aldridge.
• 1:22:27
  Sorry, I had to get that in there.
• 1:22:30
  I could see them walking around Kablam and doing this adventure.
• 1:22:35
  There'll be a few few man heads taken off with baseball bats I
• 1:22:39
  guess. Oh that would be what?
• 1:22:41
  No with Nitro 9. No, probably no bubble wrap
• 1:22:47
  needed. She'd literally lost a bomb.
• 1:22:49
  A bomb, oh God a bomb slip. She'd love a bomb and all those
• 1:22:54
  kebab man at the end and they'd all just go.
• 1:22:57
  Flying. I mean, I think it's a favorite
• 1:23:00
  of Christianals because he did wear the Kablan Man costume at
• 1:23:03
  his leaving party, didn't he? Right.
• 1:23:05
  Have you seen that? Picture.
• 1:23:06
  Yeah, yeah. Very funny Chris, you could have
• 1:23:09
  got a more better fitting Kablan Man costume, but you still look
• 1:23:14
  great. Oh, Paul, I've had a real nice
• 1:23:16
  time talking about this episode. Oh, thank you, Joe.
• 1:23:19
  Yeah, I've really loved it too. Thank you very much for having
• 1:23:21
  me on. I suppose the question is now
• 1:23:23
  is, was it a horrific experience or are you coming back for Round
• 1:23:27
  2? If you're happy back, I'm more
• 1:23:30
  than happy to come back. So yeah, I think it.
• 1:23:31
  Was sort of a leading question. I was dangling a carrot for you
• 1:23:33
  though. Well, let's.
• 1:23:35
  Let's on Mike in the episode determine what that story is
• 1:23:38
  going to be then. Well, we did talk a little bit
• 1:23:41
  online about Carnival of Monsters, I think, but I'm more
• 1:23:45
  than happy to talk about whatever.
• 1:23:46
  Oh, come on. Human beings are a bit more
• 1:23:48
  sophisticated than Welks. We'll have great fun with that
• 1:23:51
  one. I'm I shouldn't be like it,
• 1:23:53
  right? Oh yeah.
• 1:23:54
  Love it. Yeah, A.
• 1:23:55
  Huge injustice was done and Toby Hado never lets me forget it.
• 1:24:00
  The Carnival of Monsters came bottom of the Strictly Season
• 1:24:04
  10. It was all Rod, all right.
• 1:24:08
  It was nothing to do with me is bizarre tastes.
• 1:24:10
  It is a little bit I find that people do, I don't know, some
• 1:24:13
  people don't get on with it, but it's it's always been a firm
• 1:24:18
  favorite, favorite, favorite puppy of mine and puppies an era
• 1:24:22
  on nostalgic for. But even though I wasn't alive
• 1:24:25
  for it, it's like, yeah, period, that I really want to so.
• 1:24:30
  What is it? But all room says was it?
• 1:24:34
  I don't wish to be devoured by alien monstrosities, even in the
• 1:24:38
  advance of political progress. The lions are grey carnival
• 1:24:42
  brasses. Was it?
• 1:24:45
  Bravo goes off? Or when poor old Pertwee comes
• 1:24:51
  out and he goes get away. It may be contaminated with
• 1:24:54
  hideous diseases. It's very, very appropriate to.
• 1:24:58
  Now all right. They think he's an immigrant.
• 1:25:01
  Right. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:25:02
  Yeah, Yeah, True. Yeah.
• 1:25:04
  Well, until we head to the planet of interminer, can you
• 1:25:09
  just set everybody please where should they wish to stalk you
• 1:25:12
  online or turn up in your bedroom wearing a bland man
• 1:25:15
  costume? Don't give me your address.
• 1:25:18
  I'm not not giving out my address.
• 1:25:19
  Yeah, yeah, sure. Online.
• 1:25:22
  Well, I'm probably, if I'm known at all in fandom, which is
• 1:25:26
  probably I'm really not. But if I'm known at all, it's
• 1:25:28
  because I've got an Instagram, Instagram page, which is sort of
• 1:25:32
  classic who based. It has got the really
• 1:25:35
  imaginative title of Doctor Who's 60s, seventies, 80s.
• 1:25:39
  And I've been running that for like well over 10 years now.
• 1:25:43
  And so we're like, some people might know me from that.
• 1:25:47
  So if you, if you don't, if you don't follow me, please, if you
• 1:25:49
  want to give it a follow, There is a lot of it's basically what
• 1:25:54
  I used to do. I've kind of slowed down on it a
• 1:25:57
  lot in the last couple of years. But what I used to do is every
• 1:26:00
  week there'd be something different I'd want to talk
• 1:26:02
  about. And there's never really
• 1:26:03
  opinions or like what stories, it's never reviews of stories,
• 1:26:06
  but it'd be like, here's images from stories that were directed
• 1:26:10
  by women or here is like images of funky space fashions from
• 1:26:16
  different stories or like robots or, you know, pictures from
• 1:26:21
  saying quarry. So it'd be like a different kind
• 1:26:23
  of theme. And then people would just kind
• 1:26:24
  of chime in with their with their thoughts on on those.
• 1:26:26
  So that's still still going. It has kind of changed a bit
• 1:26:30
  over the last sort of actually this year really.
• 1:26:33
  And I've kind of one thing that I'm particularly interested in.
• 1:26:37
  We talked a little bit about my enjoyment of design and stuff.
• 1:26:40
  So I'm really, I really like reoccurring props.
• 1:26:43
  So when props turn up in other stories.
• 1:26:45
  Oh. Yes, that bloody sofa.
• 1:26:48
  Yeah. And yeah, the one I mean the 70s
• 1:26:50
  one. Do you mean the one the?
• 1:26:51
  One on several levels, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:26:54
  yeah. If you're into chairs, I know
• 1:26:57
  there's a brilliant blog. I'll just give a shout out to
• 1:26:59
  Tim Diggins, and he's got a brilliant blog called Pink for
• 1:27:02
  your actual pterodactyl, and that details all of the chairs
• 1:27:07
  from Doctor Who, like 7. Yeah, it's really, really good.
• 1:27:10
  It's not a waste of a life, I'm telling you now.
• 1:27:13
  All right, the chairs of Doctor Who.
• 1:27:15
  I've heard it all now but I will be there tonight though having.
• 1:27:18
  Honestly, take a look. It's really, really great stuff
• 1:27:21
  because. Because.
• 1:27:22
  Yeah, so he, he, his blog is all about the kind of stuff that's
• 1:27:26
  could have been bought because you could have buy that so far.
• 1:27:29
  It's like a collector's piece. I'm interested in a lot of the
• 1:27:31
  kind of reoccurring brick, a brack that turns brick, a brack
• 1:27:34
  that turns up. So I've, I've started a blog
• 1:27:38
  this year and it's called Doctor Who Prop Hunt.
• 1:27:42
  And you can, yeah, if anyone wants to take a look at that, it
• 1:27:47
  kind of feeds into the Instagram page as well.
• 1:27:48
  So I'll kind of post the same stuff on there as well.
• 1:27:52
  So, And yeah, I'm on Blue Sky. I think if you look up me by
• 1:27:56
  name or by Doctor Who Prop Hunt you should be able to find me on
• 1:28:00
  there. The people listening, I'm going
• 1:28:02
  to go look at that prop. I don't care if they are or not.
• 1:28:05
  That sounds great. I'll.
• 1:28:07
  Be really over the me because it's quite small.
• 1:28:09
  I don't think many people there's only, I've only
• 1:28:12
  attracted like a few people to it, but luckily they're the kind
• 1:28:15
  of people who. Don't you worry, I shall post it
• 1:28:17
  on the Patreon page and then everyone can go and have a look
• 1:28:19
  at it. The, the people, the reactions
• 1:28:22
  I've been getting so far from, from people who are really into
• 1:28:25
  this colored niche stuff as well.
• 1:28:26
  So they're like really helpful and.
• 1:28:28
  Will tell me like that's all of us.
• 1:28:31
  This is true. So yeah, that's, that's kind of
• 1:28:34
  where I'm at. Yeah.
• 1:28:35
  If you want to sort of follow me on any of that stuff, I'd love
• 1:28:39
  it. Thank you.
• 1:28:40
  Wow, I mean, it sounds like a delightful like I said, I'll
• 1:28:44
  I'll get sharing that so, but I'm just intrigued man, where
• 1:28:47
  all these props have turned up again and again.
• 1:28:49
  How much did they recycle this bloody stuff?
• 1:28:52
  Oh, endlessly, yeah. Once you get the eye for it,
• 1:28:55
  you'll see stuff all over. So yeah.
• 1:28:58
  So it's really, I mean because I'm looking at stuff from the
• 1:29:01
  Classics show, but also where they reused it in Blake 7 where
• 1:29:06
  it might crop. In that triangular wall.
• 1:29:08
  It's everywhere. You know the one I mean.
• 1:29:10
  It starts in the mutants. It's Adric's bedroom.
• 1:29:13
  Yeah, it's in about 500 Blake 7 episodes.
• 1:29:16
  Yeah, indeed, yeah. But you come for that.
• 1:29:19
  Yes, I have. Yeah, over about 3 of because
• 1:29:21
  like I start what what usually happens is I'll, I'll look for
• 1:29:25
  as much as I can find, post about it and then someone will
• 1:29:28
  say, oh, have you thought about this, this and this and that
• 1:29:30
  bloody the pattern of the hexagonal pattern turns up and
• 1:29:34
  literally everything. So there's no wind difference.
• 1:29:37
  It was like an episode of Paul Daniels where it's like Paul
• 1:29:39
  Daniels magic show where it appears in the background.
• 1:29:42
  So yeah, that's everywhere. I wonder if you can do a bit of
• 1:29:44
  research then before we go into Carnival of Monsters.
• 1:29:47
  There must be some props in that mini scope that turn up
• 1:29:50
  somewhere else, surely to goodness.
• 1:29:53
  I, I, I I'm not sure that anything I've covered so far
• 1:29:56
  touches that story, funnily enough.
• 1:29:58
  But I mean, I will definitely take a look, yeah.
• 1:30:00
  Or, you know, inside, you know, major dailies bedroom.
• 1:30:03
  You think there'll be something? Yeah, there definitely ought to
• 1:30:05
  be something from those sets on the the Bernese ship that
• 1:30:10
  absolutely, yeah, there should be.
• 1:30:12
  But I don't think I've, I've come across any so far.
• 1:30:15
  There's very little in the Spacey sets because they're
• 1:30:18
  quite empty. You know, there's not a lot of
• 1:30:21
  huge amount in there. But yeah, I'll, I'll take a
• 1:30:23
  look. OK, well, what a delight.
• 1:30:26
  What fun we've had tonight talking about a much underrated
• 1:30:30
  story. Thank you so much for your time.
• 1:30:33
  It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you, Joe.