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Toledo Residents’ Lives Upended by Deadly Brent Industries Explosions · The Real News Podcast

0:07
Speaker 1: A massive explosion and fire in South Toledo led to
0:10
Speaker 1: two people killed earlier today.
0:12
Speaker 2: Firefighters rushed to the scene just before 5 this morning.
0:15
Speaker 2: The fire is still burning. I was kind of about
0:19
Speaker 2: ready to get out of bed, oh, give or take
0:21
Speaker 2: about 4, 4.45, 4.50, and all of a sudden I
0:22
Speaker 2: heard this huge explosion. I was scared to get out
0:33
Speaker 2: of bed to go see what it was. And then
0:34
Speaker 2: I heard a second one. It's like, this is like
0:39
Speaker 2: God of a movie. And then I stepped outside and
0:41
Speaker 2: then everyone was out in the street. I did see
0:43
Speaker 2: the fire and the flames were, you know, hundreds of
0:47
Speaker 2: feet up in the air.
0:48
Speaker 3: People from all over Northwest Ohio could see this thick
0:51
Speaker 3: black smoke just pouring into the air and out of
0:53
Speaker 3: the rubble. Part of the building also collapsed. Two employees
0:57
Speaker 3: were killed, a man and a woman. We did hear
1:00
Speaker 3: from the family of Mary Allen. They say she was
1:03
Speaker 3: one of the victims and had worked at Brent Industries
1:05
Speaker 3: for 13 years, a dedicated worker, mother, and grandmother.
1:09
Speaker 2: And officials here.
1:10
Speaker 3: Say that there are still hazardous chemicals on the property, but.
1:13
Speaker 2: The air here is considered safe. OSHA teams are now
1:18
Speaker 2: involved in the investigation.
1:19
Speaker 4: This is residents nearby ask.
1:21
Speaker 5: More questions about what they have potentially been exposed to.
1:27
Speaker 5: Welcome everyone to Working People, a podcast about the lives, jobs, dreams,
1:33
Speaker 5: and struggles of the working class today. My name is
1:37
Speaker 5: Maximilian Alvarez, and today we are in Toledo, Ohio, and
1:41
Speaker 5: we're talking about the terrifying story behind the news clips
1:45
Speaker 5: that you just heard. As the Associated Press reported on
1:49
Speaker 5: the morning of August 18th, quote, explosions rocked an Ohio
1:53
Speaker 5: industrial recycling business early Tuesday, killing two workers and sparking
1:58
Speaker 5: a large fire, officials said. Flames and dark smoke poured
2:03
Speaker 5: from Brent Industries in Toledo as fire engines surrounded the building,
2:07
Speaker 5: TV news video showed. Crews later discovered the bodies of
2:11
Speaker 5: two employees, a man and a woman, inside the smoldering building,
2:16
Speaker 5: said Toledo Fire Chief Allison Armstrong. Two or three other
2:20
Speaker 5: employees had minor injuries, she said. Two explosions occurred shortly
2:24
Speaker 5: before 5 a.m. during a shift change, Armstrong said. Crews
2:28
Speaker 5: had to deal with hazardous materials, runoff, and the threat
2:32
Speaker 5: of more explosions while first searching for victims and accounting
2:36
Speaker 5: for the other.
2:36
Speaker 4: Employees, she said.
2:38
Speaker 5: Aerial images showed that nearly all of the building's roof
2:41
Speaker 5: was gone and that the blast blew out its walls.
2:45
Speaker 5: The Federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration, or OSHA, said
2:49
Speaker 5: it was investigating. The agency has six months to conduct
2:53
Speaker 5: its investigation, and it won't release any more information until
2:57
Speaker 5: that's completed, officials said. Authorities encouraged people near the site
3:01
Speaker 5: who could see or smell smoke to keep windows and
3:04
Speaker 5: doors closed and avoid the area. Now, the company, Brent Industries,
3:09
Speaker 5: based in Brent, Alabama, offers textile reconditioning and industrial recycling
3:15
Speaker 5: services aimed at reducing waste and saving money, according to
3:19
Speaker 5: its website. It was founded in Alabama in 1977 and
3:24
Speaker 5: has operations in Brent and Toledo. The company's Alabama location
3:29
Speaker 5: also had an explosion and fire in 2015 that killed
3:33
Speaker 5: one person. After that deadly explosion, OSHA determined that flammable
3:38
Speaker 5: vapor from mineral spirits, a petroleum solvent used for cleaning
3:42
Speaker 5: and other purposes, ignited in an industrial washing machine. The
3:47
Speaker 5: company was cited for a half-dozen violations and and fined $ 27, 000, according.
3:53
Speaker 4: To OSHA records.
3:55
Speaker 5: Fire officials say tanks containing mineral spirits were at the
3:58
Speaker 5: Toledo plant. The company says on its website that it
4:02
Speaker 5: uses mineral spirits in the cleaning process for work gloves,
4:06
Speaker 5: wiping clothes, and other textiles that contain hazardous substances. In 2004,
4:11
Speaker 5: OSHA cited Brent Industries for two serious violations at its
4:16
Speaker 5: Toledo plant, including failing to protect workers from death So
4:21
Speaker 5: we got a lot to talk about here. And to
4:35
Speaker 5: talk about all of this, I am really grateful to
4:37
Speaker 5: be joined today by a panel of guests who are
4:40
Speaker 5: all residents of Toledo, Ohio. Thank you all so much
4:44
Speaker 5: for joining me on the show today. I really appreciate it.
4:47
Speaker 5: And I wish we were meeting under less horrifying circumstances.
4:52
Speaker 5: And please, before we get rolling, introduce yourselves to our listeners.
4:57
Speaker 6: My name is Mike Bolanek. I am a local filmmaker
5:00
Speaker 6: and advocate for Sacrifice Zones. I have worked with Max
5:03
Speaker 6: in the past and worked on the East Palestine train
5:06
Speaker 6: derailment for the last three years.
5:08
Speaker 1: Hi, everyone. I am Dr.
5:11
Speaker 7: Brittany Jones, councilwoman at large, and I have basically been
5:16
Speaker 7: following a lot of these type of explosions and environmental
5:21
Speaker 7: hazards for quite some time. I would say that I'm
5:24
Speaker 7: very involved with trying to save our environment, but also
5:28
Speaker 7: with the health and the lives of our residents and
5:31
Speaker 7: just people in general surrounding these incidences is really what
5:35
Speaker 7: I want to focus on and try to provide more
5:39
Speaker 7: healthier living standards.
5:41
Speaker 8: My name is Sarah Locker. I live five doors down
5:45
Speaker 8: from the Brent Industries explosion. I'm here today to represent
5:48
Speaker 8: my fellow neighbors, my community and the great city of Toledo, Ohio,
5:53
Speaker 8: to make more people aware of it just doesn't happen
5:56
Speaker 8: in East Palestine. It happens everywhere in a small little
5:59
Speaker 8: town like ours and a small little neighborhood like ours.
6:02
Speaker 8: And our voices need to be heard and our questions
6:04
Speaker 8: need answers.
6:05
Speaker 2: And last but not least, I'm Chris Ramsdell. I'm also
6:08
Speaker 2: a I live right around the corner from Brennan Industries,
6:11
Speaker 2: and I just want to call awareness. So things like
6:14
Speaker 2: this don't become the norm where a business, a greedy
6:19
Speaker 2: business owner sacrifices not only his employees' lives, but then
6:24
Speaker 2: also creates a disaster in a neighboring community in which
6:29
Speaker 2: their business operates.
6:32
Speaker 5: Well, again, thank you all so much for being here
6:35
Speaker 5: with us today. And I'm so, so grateful. incredibly sorry
6:39
Speaker 5: that you and your community are going through this. And,
6:42
Speaker 5: you know, I really want listeners to kind of hear
6:48
Speaker 5: directly from y'all what has been happening and what it
6:52
Speaker 5: was like to experience this firsthand. So can we please
6:57
Speaker 5: just start by going around the table and talk about,
7:00
Speaker 5: you know, the explosions at Brent Industries and the nightmarish
7:05
Speaker 5: 24 hours that followed. Like, walk us through what happened
7:09
Speaker 5: and how you experienced it all as it was unfolding.
7:13
Speaker 9: Well, I had just.
7:14
Speaker 8: Gotten home from work early that morning, had just started
7:17
Speaker 8: to fall asleep. We have a train rail right behind us.
7:22
Speaker 8: So when the explosion happened, you know, it was one
7:25
Speaker 8: of two things in my mind being ripped out of
7:27
Speaker 8: a deep sleep that You know, either somebody hit a
7:31
Speaker 8: transformer or something happened in the train tracks behind us.
7:36
Speaker 8: It jolted our entire household awake. When the first explosion hit, it.
7:41
Speaker 9: Shook our house.
7:43
Speaker 8: It bowed our windows. It terrified our children. The second
7:48
Speaker 8: explosion hit almost immediately after. And that was when my
7:52
Speaker 8: husband flew out of bed and out the front doors.
7:55
Speaker 8: And my 19 year old followed behind and my 16
7:59
Speaker 8: year old and our nine year old little girl were
8:02
Speaker 8: absolutely terrified. They didn't know what was going on. My
8:05
Speaker 8: husband ran down the street, phone in hand. I was
8:08
Speaker 8: trying to call 911. You couldn't get through 911. There
8:12
Speaker 8: was no 911 because of the flood of calls that
8:14
Speaker 8: was happening. The mushroom cloud of smoke and flames that
8:18
Speaker 8: you could see the smell of It was traumatizing. And
8:23
Speaker 8: then to realize what had happened and then finally see
8:26
Speaker 8: emergency crews showing up, the mounds of people that gathered
8:30
Speaker 8: in our front yard in tears, crying. We actually had
8:34
Speaker 8: one lady that had reported to work that morning for
8:37
Speaker 8: her 5 a.m. shift, and she was absolutely horrified. My
8:42
Speaker 8: husband directed her to our house where she could park
8:44
Speaker 8: her car. She was crying. She had had a young
8:47
Speaker 8: lady in her car next to her, didn't speak any English.
8:51
Speaker 8: And the look of terror on her face just broke
8:55
Speaker 8: my heart. And I think we spent a better part
8:58
Speaker 8: of that day comforting neighbors and comforting people that were
9:01
Speaker 8: standing there, you know, wanting answers.
9:04
Speaker 9: They hadn't heard from loved ones.
9:05
Speaker 8: They didn't know if their family members were in that explosion.
9:10
Speaker 8: And unfortunately, two lives were lost innocently for no reason,
9:15
Speaker 8: no reason at all. And we have no answers, nothing.
9:19
Speaker 2: And I'll just kind of piggyback off of what Sarah said.
9:22
Speaker 2: I was actually just getting up. First blast happened about, oh, gosh,
9:25
Speaker 2: I want to say it was about 4.50, 4.55 a.m.
9:27
Speaker 2: So I was just getting ready, about to get ready
9:31
Speaker 2: to get out of bed, start my day. The first blast,
9:33
Speaker 2: it was so extreme. They were both extreme. But the
9:36
Speaker 2: first blast was so extreme, I thought, I must be
9:39
Speaker 2: kind of dreaming this. You know, I didn't really equate
9:42
Speaker 2: it to something that was actually happening. Well, then the
9:46
Speaker 2: second one happened a couple minutes later, and it's like, okay, this,
9:51
Speaker 2: I'm not dreaming. This one, I actually, it shook my house,
9:55
Speaker 2: and as I've described in the past, it felt like
9:57
Speaker 2: someone picked my house up and dropped it. Literally, it
9:59
Speaker 2: was that forceful. At that point, I was, I hate
10:06
Speaker 2: to admit this, but I was kind of scared to
10:07
Speaker 2: get out of bed because it's like, well, did somebody
10:09
Speaker 2: run into my house? Did one half of my house
10:11
Speaker 2: blow up? You know, I didn't know. And I kind
10:14
Speaker 2: of stayed in my bedroom and I'm like, let me
10:16
Speaker 2: see if I smell anything.
10:18
Speaker 1: And thankfully, I didn't.
10:19
Speaker 2: So I Got out of my bedroom to see what
10:22
Speaker 2: was going on and seeing everyone congregate down at the
10:25
Speaker 2: end of my street here. I should say I do
10:27
Speaker 2: live two doors away from South Avenue. South Avenue is
10:30
Speaker 2: where Brent Industries is located. It's about, I would say,
10:32
Speaker 2: a block and a half away from my house. And
10:35
Speaker 2: I knew it's like if someone was even near that,
10:40
Speaker 2: I can't imagine how anyone could have survived that. And
10:43
Speaker 2: so the first thing I thought of was, oh, my God.
10:46
Speaker 2: God forbid, hopefully nobody was there. Hopefully they only operate
10:49
Speaker 2: for a second shift. I thought at one time they
10:51
Speaker 2: operated three shifts. But again, it was 4 a.m., so
10:56
Speaker 2: my guess is the third shift was probably still on.
10:59
Speaker 2: So my first thing was, hopefully no one got killed.
11:05
Speaker 2: So within probably 15 minutes or so, this car comes
11:10
Speaker 2: speeding down the street, and it was this girl. She
11:14
Speaker 2: was looking for her mother. Similar to what Sarah had mentioned,
11:20
Speaker 2: my neighbor directed her to park in the driveway at
11:23
Speaker 2: the house next to me. It was vacant at the time.
11:27
Speaker 2: She's like, I need to go find my mother. My
11:29
Speaker 2: mother is there. I just put myself in her shoes.
11:35
Speaker 2: going to find my own mother or going to find
11:37
Speaker 2: someone I love, not knowing, you know, walking up to
11:41
Speaker 2: this building that has exploded, not knowing if your loved
11:44
Speaker 2: one was in there that may have perished in it.
11:47
Speaker 2: It's got to be the worst thing to ever face
11:50
Speaker 2: in life and nobody should have to. Her car was
11:54
Speaker 2: parked there for several hours post the incident. I kept
11:57
Speaker 2: looking out my window every 20 minutes or so to
11:59
Speaker 2: see if I could see her, see if I could
12:01
Speaker 2: follow up with her.
12:02
Speaker 1: I don't know if she.
12:03
Speaker 2: Was one of the folks to which she lost someone
12:08
Speaker 2: in or not. But the car did land up leaving
12:10
Speaker 2: several hours later. So that's my experience the day of
12:13
Speaker 2: the explosion.
12:14
Speaker 7: Yeah, from my experience, I don't live in the proximity
12:20
Speaker 7: of the actual incident, but I am on this side
12:23
Speaker 7: of town and I also have family on this side
12:26
Speaker 7: of town. And also a matter of fact, some of
12:28
Speaker 7: our staff from council, they actually live within the neighborhood.
12:33
Speaker 7: So when that happened, from what I can recall, as
12:38
Speaker 7: both Chris and Sarah has said, getting jolted out of
12:41
Speaker 7: the sleep, not because of the rumbling, but our electricity
12:45
Speaker 7: basically went out and came back on. And so when
12:48
Speaker 7: power comes back on, alarms and noises start happening. And
12:53
Speaker 7: we were like, what is going on? So we're just
12:56
Speaker 7: same as Sarah, you know, probably somebody hit a transformer
12:59
Speaker 7: or something like that and didn't think too much of
13:02
Speaker 7: it because the electricity was back on. So then my
13:06
Speaker 7: work phone started going off with text messages from our
13:11
Speaker 7: deputy mayor, also our safety director, and telling us about
13:15
Speaker 7: this explosion that just happened. First and foremost, I definitely
13:19
Speaker 7: want to give thanks to Fire and Rescue.
13:22
Speaker 1: And all of the first responders.
13:23
Speaker 7: There were about 100 that were out there, if not more,
13:27
Speaker 7: and especially the residents around that was trying to do
13:31
Speaker 7: whatever they could to give comfort, give just any sort
13:36
Speaker 7: of support for that. And there's not much you can
13:39
Speaker 7: do from an industry explosion, but that comfort really was important.
13:44
Speaker 7: and just getting the reports, seeing, and especially afterwards, seeing
13:50
Speaker 7: all of the bad reviews, the citations of the actual company,
13:57
Speaker 7: that was something that was really concerning of me. Some
14:00
Speaker 7: of my colleagues, the next day, they held a press conference,
14:05
Speaker 7: and they came back and were saying that the smell,
14:08
Speaker 7: the just.
14:11
Speaker 7: The illness that they were feeling afterwards. And they were
14:14
Speaker 7: only out there for, I don't know, maybe 20, 30 minutes.
14:18
Speaker 7: And they were already experiencing the symptoms of migraines and
14:22
Speaker 7: nausea and burning, chest burning. And so it was very,
14:27
Speaker 7: very traumatic. And mind you, this was really coming off
14:33
Speaker 7: of the back-to-back incidences that we also had because we
14:36
Speaker 7: also had a fire at Omnisource. And then there was
14:40
Speaker 7: a tanker on the east side that had overturned that
14:42
Speaker 7: had hazardous materials. So there were like three incidences within
14:47
Speaker 7: maybe three weeks of this caliber. And so that's when
14:52
Speaker 7: a lot of questions started popping up like, well, what
14:55
Speaker 7: is the regulation? And what, you know, were they up
14:59
Speaker 7: to date with different things? And, you know, what more
15:02
Speaker 7: can we do, especially if people are experiencing these symptoms
15:05
Speaker 7: and having to go to the doctor if they can
15:08
Speaker 7: go to the doctor. And it's just a lot of
15:11
Speaker 7: things that really bought to the forefront of what do
15:15
Speaker 7: we do as a city, as a neighborhood when it
15:19
Speaker 7: comes to these types of incidences moving forward, really.
15:23
Speaker 6: So funny enough, I actually found out about this from
15:27
Speaker 6: some of my friends in East Palestine. They were messaging me,
15:30
Speaker 6: asking me if I was OK. Luckily, I don't live
15:33
Speaker 6: in the immediate vicinity. However, just from some of the
15:38
Speaker 6: research that I've done on the weather patterns, how long
15:40
Speaker 6: this thing burned for, there's a good part of the
15:43
Speaker 6: city that could have been affected by this. We don't
15:46
Speaker 6: know because they're not doing the kind of testing that's
15:49
Speaker 6: necessary to find that out at this point. But for me,
15:53
Speaker 6: my initial reaction was, this looks serious. This looks like
15:57
Speaker 6: something that I've seen many times before. And as the
16:01
Speaker 6: day progressed, I kept following it. And Within a few hours,
16:06
Speaker 6: the EPA came out and said that everything was safe,
16:09
Speaker 6: which I've heard this story before. And I know, Max,
16:12
Speaker 6: you have as well over and over and over, unfortunately.
16:16
Speaker 6: And so that was alarm bell number one. And I
16:20
Speaker 6: decided that I really need to start talking to some folks.
16:23
Speaker 6: Met Chris almost within the first 24 hours, I think,
16:27
Speaker 6: of all of this and just started kind of talking
16:30
Speaker 6: about what was going on. Went down there myself for
16:34
Speaker 6: the preface conference that Councilwoman Dr. Jones had mentioned. And
16:38
Speaker 6: I could taste it. I could feel it. All of
16:41
Speaker 6: the same things that I experienced in East Palestine. And so,
16:45
Speaker 6: I mean, for me, immediately I knew this was something
16:47
Speaker 6: that was concerning. I wanted to do whatever I could
16:50
Speaker 6: to help because this is something that I've been doing
16:53
Speaker 6: for three years now. Um, and, and anything that I
16:56
Speaker 6: can do to shine light on what residents are going through,
16:59
Speaker 6: I felt that it was something necessary for me to do.
17:02
Speaker 5: You know, I, I appreciate y'all so much kind of
17:05
Speaker 5: laying this out. And, and I, I, I hate so
17:08
Speaker 5: much that this is like a trauma that, that you
17:11
Speaker 5: have to relive, um, because it's a type of trauma
17:14
Speaker 5: that so many of us are getting a firsthand experience in,
17:20
Speaker 5: even if we thought it might never happen to us.
17:22
Speaker 4: And like, You know, I know what that feels like.
17:25
Speaker 5: Mike said, you know, like we connected first in East Palestine, Ohio,
17:30
Speaker 5: where that train derailed in 2023. And ever since then,
17:34
Speaker 5: you know, I've had the same fear that I think
17:37
Speaker 5: so many have had who's heard those stories is what
17:41
Speaker 5: if that happened in my hometown? What if that happened
17:44
Speaker 5: near my house or where my family lives? And then
17:48
Speaker 5: it happened to me, you know, in May of this year.
17:52
Speaker 5: When I read the headlines, I wake up in the
17:54
Speaker 5: morning and I see GKN Aerospace Facility experiencing a pressurized
18:01
Speaker 5: tank crisis.
18:02
Speaker 4: It could explode.
18:03
Speaker 5: 50,000 people have been evacuated.
18:06
Speaker 4: Where?
18:07
Speaker 5: In Garden Grove, California, 10 minutes from where my family lives.
18:12
Speaker 5: And it was East Palestine residents, like you said, Mike,
18:15
Speaker 5: who were texting me about it, asking if my family
18:18
Speaker 5: was okay, asking.
18:20
Speaker 4: If the EPA was.
18:22
Speaker 5: giving everyone the same shtick and saying, it's all fine,
18:25
Speaker 5: everyone go home, you know, whatever you're breathing in is
18:29
Speaker 5: going to be okay. And it was like seeing the
18:32
Speaker 5: same movie playing over again, but in my hometown. And
18:37
Speaker 5: I really can't stress enough for people listening, like, if
18:40
Speaker 5: you think this shit can't happen where you are, it can,
18:44
Speaker 5: and it may already be happening, and you don't even
18:47
Speaker 5: know about it. And again, we're not equating all of
18:49
Speaker 5: these different catastrophes like everyone is different every community is
18:54
Speaker 5: different but like the sort of larger you know increase
19:00
Speaker 5: in these types of explosions derailments you know like toxic
19:05
Speaker 5: disasters you know like that doesn't just come from nowhere
19:09
Speaker 5: there is a larger kind of history here there's a
19:12
Speaker 5: system here that is contributing to endangering frontline workers and
19:16
Speaker 5: fence line workers communities all over the country, whether you're
19:20
Speaker 5: in a city, rural area, if you think you're in
19:23
Speaker 5: a quote-unquote blue state or red state, this crap is
19:26
Speaker 5: coming for all of us. So I'm going to get
19:29
Speaker 5: off my soapbox for a second, but just hearing y'all,
19:32
Speaker 5: I was just so overwhelmed with emotions that I had
19:36
Speaker 5: to say that, but I want to bring it back
19:38
Speaker 5: to what and who this is really about. And I
19:41
Speaker 5: wanted to ask if y'all could Tell us what we
19:44
Speaker 5: know about the two workers who lost their lives in
19:47
Speaker 5: this explosion. Like, what do we know about them? them
19:50
Speaker 5: and what is being done for their families?
19:53
Speaker 2: Well, I will just say this.
19:54
Speaker 1: It took the explosion happened on the 18th.
19:59
Speaker 2: We didn't hear anything from the company in regards to
20:01
Speaker 2: their employees until the 27th, they released a public statement.
20:06
Speaker 2: And in the public statement, they said something to the
20:09
Speaker 2: effect of that they've been in contact with the families
20:11
Speaker 2: that are affected. I don't know if I believe that
20:13
Speaker 2: or not, but we're talking several days that are elapsed
20:17
Speaker 2: that these poor people that worked for this company, I
20:20
Speaker 2: can't imagine they were paid more, a little bit, maybe
20:23
Speaker 2: over minimum wage, probably were living paycheck to paycheck. While
20:27
Speaker 2: this company is making millions of dollars off the back
20:30
Speaker 2: of these people, and they don't even have the decency
20:33
Speaker 2: to come out and make a statement saying that they
20:34
Speaker 2: mourn the loss of their employees. What is wrong with us?
20:37
Speaker 2: What's wrong with our humanity? These people didn't make their
20:40
Speaker 2: millions just from themselves. They made it off the backs
20:43
Speaker 2: of these people. One of the victims, her name was
20:45
Speaker 2: Mary Allen. And then the other victim, I don't know
20:50
Speaker 2: his first name. Last name was Garcia Perez, I believe.
20:54
Speaker 2: And so Mary Allen, her family... has been in the
20:57
Speaker 2: media and whatnot. I regret I didn't know her. She
21:02
Speaker 2: just sounded like an all-around great person.
21:04
Speaker 1: And I.
21:06
Speaker 2: Don't mean to sound mean or unprofessional, but it pisses
21:09
Speaker 2: me off to know that her life got sacrificed because
21:14
Speaker 2: of someone's greediness.
21:16
Speaker 1: Because that's what this boils down to, is corporate greed.
21:18
Speaker 9: I have to agree with you, Chris. I'm actually.
21:22
Speaker 8: upset at the fact that a woman that dedicated almost
21:25
Speaker 8: 14 years of her life to such a I Guess
21:30
Speaker 8: you can I a horrible company Horrible money-hungry company and
21:36
Speaker 8: then not to speak out after so many days.
21:39
Speaker 9: What about mr. Garcia?
21:42
Speaker 8: I haven't heard anything about him and what does that
21:44
Speaker 8: say if people that have lived around here don't know
21:47
Speaker 8: anything about the people that lost their lives so close
21:50
Speaker 8: to their homes and And with us being such a
21:52
Speaker 8: close-knit community, and we're worried about our neighbors, our community members,
21:58
Speaker 8: and for them to not even acknowledge the two lives lost,
22:03
Speaker 8: and then to not even acknowledge the residents that live
22:06
Speaker 8: close by, to not say anything to anybody. They're not compliant.
22:12
Speaker 8: My 16-year-old went to the city council meeting over Brent Industries.
22:17
Speaker 8: And he came to us and said when I had
22:19
Speaker 8: to work and his dad had to work that he
22:21
Speaker 8: wanted to go to this city council meeting. Because as
22:25
Speaker 8: a child who's 16 years old, people don't take them
22:29
Speaker 8: very seriously because most of these kids run around and
22:31
Speaker 8: they don't care about anything but what video game they're
22:35
Speaker 8: playing or what friend's house they're going to. But my
22:38
Speaker 8: son has been side by side with us and he
22:42
Speaker 8: likes Mike, he likes Sherry, he liked you. You are
22:46
Speaker 8: the few people that my son has felt comfortable enough
22:49
Speaker 8: to attend this city council meeting on behalf of kids
22:52
Speaker 8: his age to show the council members that, you know,
22:57
Speaker 8: we too are affected by this. And he's angry with
23:01
Speaker 8: Brent Industries. You know, we live five doors down. And
23:04
Speaker 8: it was like living in a sandstorm in the Sahara
23:07
Speaker 8: Desert for at least three days. The smell, the heartbreak
23:14
Speaker 8: that you feel for these families. We had to leave
23:18
Speaker 8: our home and go to a motel. And people around here,
23:21
Speaker 8: we can't afford that. You know, like, you know, you've
23:24
Speaker 8: said we live paycheck to paycheck. And when we have
23:27
Speaker 8: to uproot the only place that these children call their
23:31
Speaker 8: safe place and it's no longer safe. Please explain to
23:33
Speaker 8: me how I explain that to my nine-year-old daughter who
23:36
Speaker 8: can't sleep in her bedroom at night, who has migraines
23:40
Speaker 8: and stomach problems, who, you know, isn't the same person.
23:44
Speaker 8: She doesn't like any loud noises anymore. My 19-year-old won't
23:49
Speaker 8: come out of his room some days because his stomach
23:51
Speaker 8: hurts so bad. My 16-year-old has migraines, and he's puking
23:55
Speaker 8: every morning he gets up. You know, the first week
24:00
Speaker 8: of school, we thought, you know, okay, the Brent Industries
24:03
Speaker 8: happened the 18th. They started school literally that next Monday. And,
24:09
Speaker 8: you know, my daughter goes to Burroughs. What do you
24:12
Speaker 8: explain to these kids, you know, when she has questions
24:15
Speaker 8: and comes home about what happened? You know, she came
24:19
Speaker 8: home and we thought she was, you know, back to
24:20
Speaker 8: school sniffles. No, she had a sore throat, itchy eyes,
24:23
Speaker 8: runny nose, congestion. It's disgusting. And Brent Industries sits back
24:29
Speaker 8: and does absolutely nothing. We're just going to continue to
24:32
Speaker 8: collect our money. But we owe the city of Toledo $ 20, 000
24:35
Speaker 8: in back taxes, a million dollar water bill. Like, where's
24:42
Speaker 8: the accountability for them? They don't have any. They feel
24:45
Speaker 8: like they're untouchable. And that's not fair.
24:48
Speaker 2: And I will just kind of piggyback off Sarah for
24:51
Speaker 2: a second. I've been kind of doing some digging on
24:52
Speaker 2: this company, looking at Ohio EPA records. And I think
24:57
Speaker 2: part of the cause might be a lack of regulation.
25:00
Speaker 2: We've had some conservative governors the past several years that
25:05
Speaker 2: have tried to make the state more business friendly. But
25:09
Speaker 2: I almost wonder if that's kind of come to a
25:11
Speaker 2: cost of people's lives. And I'll cite to one example
25:16
Speaker 2: with one of the EPA inspections was kind of surprised
25:19
Speaker 2: to see where they were trying to schedule a time
25:22
Speaker 2: to go and inspect the facility. And of course, you
25:26
Speaker 2: have to expect when you go and schedule an appointment
25:29
Speaker 2: to make sure a organization is in compliance with the law,
25:33
Speaker 2: you should expect that they're going to put some kind
25:36
Speaker 2: of a show on. You're not going to see the
25:38
Speaker 2: real deal as if you dropped in unexpectedly. So I
25:42
Speaker 2: think that has not served us well. I'm all about
25:48
Speaker 2: providing opportunities for jobs and for folks to make a
25:51
Speaker 2: good living and whatnot. But at the same time, there's
25:53
Speaker 2: got to be a decent handoff where we're not exposing
26:01
Speaker 2: people to dangerous working conditions. And I just, I kind
26:04
Speaker 2: of feel like the way our policies are written here
26:07
Speaker 2: in the state, we kind of enable.
26:10
Speaker 1: This behavior, I guess, might be a way to put it.
26:12
Speaker 2: Because we do want to remain business friendly, but, you know,
26:17
Speaker 2: at what expense? You know, at the expense of The
26:20
Speaker 2: two people who perished, I mean, absolutely not now. All
26:23
Speaker 2: of us that live around here, I shouldn't say all
26:25
Speaker 2: of us, but a lot of us are now experiencing
26:27
Speaker 2: the aftermaths of it. Meanwhile, this company, they're living high
26:31
Speaker 2: on the hog. Haven't seen them. There's no face in
26:34
Speaker 2: front to represent their company. We just get this little
26:38
Speaker 2: mediocre statement. I mean, that's nothing.
26:41
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, like, you know, and I think so
26:43
Speaker 5: many people around the country are waking up to this
26:46
Speaker 5: reality that, because of all these goddamn data centers that
26:50
Speaker 5: are popping up everywhere. It's like people are learning. They're
26:53
Speaker 5: getting a crash course in how screwed up are, you know,
26:58
Speaker 5: regulatory apparatuses or lack of regulatory apparatus and like all
27:02
Speaker 5: the ways that local regulatory control has been removed or
27:07
Speaker 5: legislated away in the dark years ago. And that has
27:10
Speaker 5: made communities increasingly more vulnerable to the, to the predatory, uh,
27:16
Speaker 5: you know, like exploits of these companies. And, you know,
27:20
Speaker 5: we're seeing it all over the country. We see it
27:23
Speaker 5: here in Baltimore, all over the place, right? And so
27:26
Speaker 5: I wanted to kind of keep going in that direction
27:29
Speaker 5: and ask like for folks who don't live in Toledo,
27:34
Speaker 5: if y'all could keep like help painting a picture for
27:36
Speaker 5: us about this area and the issues that Toledo has
27:41
Speaker 5: had with Brent Industries before and other industrial polluters in
27:46
Speaker 5: this area?
27:46
Speaker 6: I mean, just to paint a picture of Toledo for
27:49
Speaker 6: folks who aren't familiar, Toledo is a heavily industrial city.
27:53
Speaker 4: We're the home of Jeep.
27:54
Speaker 6: We have a very long history of industry in Toledo
27:58
Speaker 6: with many similar kinds of disasters. There's a lot of
28:02
Speaker 6: legacy chemicals and stuff that are already in the ground
28:06
Speaker 6: that have been affecting people's health for probably the better
28:09
Speaker 6: part of a century at this point. And so This
28:13
Speaker 6: isn't anything new for Toledo, but there's a lot of
28:16
Speaker 6: history of this. However, this is becoming a pattern. As
28:21
Speaker 6: Councilwoman Dr. Jones mentioned, within that same period of time,
28:27
Speaker 6: we had many incidences. In fact, the same day, there
28:30
Speaker 6: were two incidences. There's the Brent Industries, and then there
28:34
Speaker 6: was another one. And so, I mean, this is just
28:37
Speaker 6: a problem that is systemic. It's a regulation issue. As
28:43
Speaker 6: you mentioned, Max, it's not a red or blue issue
28:46
Speaker 6: necessarily because this happens everywhere. This happened in your home
28:50
Speaker 6: state of California, which is about as blue as they get.
28:53
Speaker 6: And so I think that's an important thing to recognize
28:57
Speaker 6: with people that this isn't just one side that's causing
29:01
Speaker 6: these problems. This is a long running issue. We can
29:05
Speaker 6: look back as far as Love Canal and Times Beach
29:08
Speaker 6: just in modern history. But that goes back further. And
29:12
Speaker 6: a lot of this stuff has probably never been documented. So,
29:16
Speaker 6: I mean, we as Toledoans, we're very familiar with this.
29:20
Speaker 6: I feel very lucky that as a city, we do
29:23
Speaker 6: have leaders that are keen to this. I think that
29:28
Speaker 6: members of city council have been asking some really tough
29:30
Speaker 6: questions of city leadership, of the EPA. Hopefully that they
29:35
Speaker 6: can get answers to eventually. This is something that they
29:38
Speaker 6: don't necessarily have. in places like East Palestine. City leaders
29:42
Speaker 6: in East Palestine were mum the whole time, if not
29:45
Speaker 6: directly supportive of the narrative. And so I think that's
29:49
Speaker 6: a really good quality of Toledo. We are fighters here.
29:52
Speaker 6: We are people that aren't afraid to stir the shit
29:54
Speaker 6: if we need to. And so I think this could
29:57
Speaker 6: be a moment for us as just a nation to
30:01
Speaker 6: maybe stop and reflect and say, hey, we need to
30:03
Speaker 6: start looking into this. I really hope that Toledo, even
30:07
Speaker 6: though it's not going to be the last one, there's
30:08
Speaker 6: already been other disasters after this, that we can be
30:12
Speaker 6: one of the last ones, that we can be the
30:14
Speaker 6: catalyst to start a national conversation to maybe fix this.
30:18
Speaker 7: I really want to add to that because as Mike
30:22
Speaker 7: had said, we are heavily industrial, but we're very dependent
30:27
Speaker 7: on industry as far as how we get our revenue,
30:30
Speaker 7: you know, property taxes, income tax, majority of population is
30:36
Speaker 7: definitely working class, blue collar. I came from union family
30:40
Speaker 7: working at GM. And so that is literally our bread
30:44
Speaker 7: and butter. But now we're moving into, we mentioned data centers,
30:49
Speaker 7: we're talking about AI, we're talking about automation. So that
30:53
Speaker 7: is adding an extra layer to this because if we're
30:57
Speaker 7: having all of the technology, what does that regulation look like?
31:01
Speaker 7: Is it going to be even more dangerous? I mean,
31:03
Speaker 7: of course, chemicals are very dangerous, but now we're talking
31:06
Speaker 7: about more advanced technology. And what does that look like
31:10
Speaker 7: when it comes to disaster preparedness? Looking at and talking
31:14
Speaker 7: about this We are very adamant as far as trying
31:17
Speaker 7: to get answers. To this date, I don't think we
31:20
Speaker 7: have even a list of who has been in the
31:23
Speaker 7: plant at that time. And at the council, the committee
31:28
Speaker 7: meeting that Sarah had mentioned, we had talked with Chief Armstrong.
31:33
Speaker 7: We talked with police that were giving just the updates,
31:36
Speaker 7: talked with our environmental services as far as their monitoring.
31:40
Speaker 7: And they really haven't heard anything from Brent as well.
31:44
Speaker 7: So this is a prime example of when you put
31:48
Speaker 7: profit over people instead of opposite. And that is really
31:51
Speaker 7: what we have to strive for as we're moving forward
31:54
Speaker 7: as a city.
31:55
Speaker 1: We're a legacy city.
31:57
Speaker 7: And so that's just another term for post-industrial city. And
32:01
Speaker 7: as we're coming into their redevelopment, kind of rebranding, this
32:05
Speaker 7: is what we have to keep in mind because our
32:07
Speaker 7: infrastructure is aging.
32:09
Speaker 1: Of course, that's costing money. That's going to have more regulation.
32:12
Speaker 7: That's going to really have to have more accountability as
32:16
Speaker 7: we make this transition. And hopefully, I say hopefully in quotes,
32:22
Speaker 7: there won't be any shortchanging when it comes to these
32:24
Speaker 7: policies and regulation and things of that nature, because it
32:28
Speaker 7: is seeming like that profit over people at this point.
32:31
Speaker 7: And I'm so glad, as Sarah had mentioned with her sons,
32:34
Speaker 7: and there was a couple of other young people there
32:36
Speaker 7: showing up and speaking out because they are the next
32:39
Speaker 7: generation of This is what they, if they decide to
32:42
Speaker 7: stay in Toledo, this is what is going to be
32:45
Speaker 7: left of them. And I don't want that. I have
32:48
Speaker 7: three little ones. I don't know if they're going to
32:50
Speaker 7: stay in Toledo, but if they do, I don't want
32:52
Speaker 7: to leave it like this. I want it to be
32:54
Speaker 7: safe and I want everybody else's future and legacy to
32:58
Speaker 7: be safe and secure as well. And so trying to
33:02
Speaker 7: get answers and it's really hard because they are a
33:05
Speaker 7: private industry and That is really going to take a
33:08
Speaker 7: lot of pushing, you know, even from the mayor, even
33:11
Speaker 7: from our commissioners, Lucas County commissioners. We have to have
33:15
Speaker 7: those questions. We have to get those answers. But I
33:18
Speaker 7: don't they seem to be dodging. They had that statement,
33:21
Speaker 7: as Chris had mentioned. But what does that mean? You're
33:24
Speaker 7: not doing you're just issuing a public apology. There's no
33:28
Speaker 7: disbursement of money to take care of medical needs. You know,
33:32
Speaker 7: houses may have been damaged, especially if they were right there.
33:36
Speaker 7: There was just nothing that was being offered.
33:39
Speaker 1: And we're still trying to get information.
33:41
Speaker 7: So it's literally at this point is trying to keep
33:44
Speaker 7: pushing and really keep asking those same questions. And trying
33:49
Speaker 7: to figure out how do we take care of this
33:51
Speaker 7: with other industries that are within this city? Because Toledo
33:55
Speaker 7: is getting hot. If you've been reading the headlines, we're
33:58
Speaker 7: most affordable. Everybody's trying to move here. Since we're talking
34:01
Speaker 7: about the environment, climate migration is real. People are coming
34:05
Speaker 7: to the Midwest. So what does that look like? That's
34:07
Speaker 7: more people. That means more services. That means more power
34:10
Speaker 7: that has to be used. If our systems are not
34:13
Speaker 7: up to date to take care of that capacity, we
34:16
Speaker 7: could have repeated incidences just like this.
34:20
Speaker 1: Then what?
34:21
Speaker 7: Now we're going to have a population that's sick because
34:24
Speaker 7: we don't have the right processes and check-ins in place.
34:27
Speaker 1: We're doing mediocre monitoring.
34:29
Speaker 7: I understand that our services, environmental services, EPA, doing air monitoring,
34:33
Speaker 7: water pollution, they said that everything was fine.
34:36
Speaker 1: And we were like, no, we need continued reporting.
34:40
Speaker 7: And they're... Level of safe is probably just that little
34:44
Speaker 7: threshold to where you're not dying. It's not like you're
34:47
Speaker 7: not sick, but you're not dead. So I think that's okay.
34:50
Speaker 7: And that's how we should not be doing that right now.
34:53
Speaker 7: We actually ever, we should not ever do that because again,
34:57
Speaker 7: everything is connected. That if people are sick, people can't
35:01
Speaker 7: go to work. They can't provide for their family. Now
35:03
Speaker 7: you're talking about, you can't provide housing. You can't provide food.
35:07
Speaker 7: So now we're talking about homelessness, starvation. Every, it's a
35:09
Speaker 7: domino effect. And that's why we need to really hit
35:14
Speaker 7: hard with this and keep this going because it's going
35:17
Speaker 7: to keep happening. And they're just going to keep doing
35:20
Speaker 7: it and or keep coming to Toledo saying we're offering
35:23
Speaker 7: new jobs. But it's your safety that's at risk. And whatever,
35:28
Speaker 7: if you get hurt or die, it doesn't matter. We're
35:30
Speaker 7: getting money anyway. That is not how Toledo needs to work.
35:34
Speaker 7: That is not how we should market ourselves and definitely
35:38
Speaker 7: should not be an acceptable reason for our residents to
35:42
Speaker 7: just because to get a job. That is the safety
35:45
Speaker 7: protocols are just not in place right now. And this
35:48
Speaker 7: is clearly evident with all of the incidences that have
35:52
Speaker 7: been happening just around here and around the state as well.
35:56
Speaker 2: To piggyback off the Councilwoman's statement, I feel like sometimes
36:00
Speaker 2: in some cases, and I think we could apply this
36:02
Speaker 2: to this organization as well, that lives are disposable and
36:06
Speaker 2: they are absolutely not. And I ask myself this question,
36:10
Speaker 2: why doesn't this type of thing happen in the wealthy neighborhoods?
36:13
Speaker 2: Why does it happen in neighborhoods like this? Are we lesser?
36:17
Speaker 2: Are the employees that provide that million dollar salary to
36:21
Speaker 2: the owners and shareholders and whatnot, is their life really
36:24
Speaker 2: disposable so they can make a quick buck? I think
36:28
Speaker 2: we really need to truly reevaluate our value system.
36:31
Speaker 8: I a thousand percent agree with you, Chris. And Councilwoman,
36:34
Speaker 8: I think you nailed everything that I've been feeling recently
36:37
Speaker 8: on the head. We have, not going to lie, have
36:41
Speaker 8: actually thought about leaving Toledo because it's literally, that's what
36:46
Speaker 8: we look at every day. That's what we deal with
36:49
Speaker 8: every day. And being a born and raised Toledoan, we're
36:55
Speaker 8: a very proud city. We are very, very close. And
36:59
Speaker 8: I think we can all agree that Toledo hasn't had
37:01
Speaker 8: the best rap lately.
37:03
Speaker 9: But when.
37:05
Speaker 8: something like this happens, we come together as a community
37:07
Speaker 8: and we stand up for what we believe in. And
37:10
Speaker 8: for the EPA to come in and say, oh, it's safe,
37:12
Speaker 8: like Councilwoman said, to me, it feels like Bren Industries
37:15
Speaker 8: is basically saying, but did you die?
37:18
Speaker 9: Well, two of your people did.
37:19
Speaker 8: And who's to say six months from now, just like
37:22
Speaker 8: in East Palestine, just like in other places, that somebody
37:25
Speaker 8: doesn't end up even sicker than what we are now.
37:29
Speaker 8: I have blood clotting disorders. I have history of, you know,
37:33
Speaker 8: clots in my lungs. I've had two surgeries in the past.
37:36
Speaker 8: How do I know this isn't going to cause a
37:37
Speaker 8: flare up and I end up with another clot? How
37:39
Speaker 8: do I know this isn't going to result in my
37:41
Speaker 8: son's asthma flaring up to the.
37:42
Speaker 9: Point where he can't breathe? My 19 year old was literally,
37:46
Speaker 9: I can't breathe.
37:50
Speaker 8: I had to give him two back-to-back albuterol treatments just
37:53
Speaker 8: to bring him out of it. And for people to
37:58
Speaker 8: sit and for Brent Industries to not be held accountable
38:00
Speaker 8: and for them to not stand up and say, hey,
38:03
Speaker 8: I apologize. This is what we're willing to do to
38:05
Speaker 8: make you guys feel more comfortable about the situation.
38:09
Speaker 9: I'm sorry.
38:10
Speaker 8: I don't think they feel bad. I think they just
38:12
Speaker 8: feel like because this factory was in a lower class neighborhood.
38:17
Speaker 7: Oh, well.
38:18
Speaker 8: We'll let it die down till the dust settles. We'll
38:20
Speaker 8: be forgotten about. No, not today, sweetheart.
38:23
Speaker 2: No, ma'am. And I kind of worry, too. Michael, I
38:28
Speaker 2: had very extensive conversations with Mike when him and I
38:32
Speaker 2: connected about kind of getting the word out. It's like,
38:34
Speaker 2: you know, I, this is probably an annoyance to them,
38:38
Speaker 2: all of us speaking out and raising hell about this.
38:41
Speaker 2: And I, I sometimes wonder, you know, these are well-connected folks.
38:46
Speaker 2: Am I going to be retaliated against? You know, I
38:48
Speaker 2: think that's a real thing too, all the way around.
38:51
Speaker 4: It's unfortunate.
38:52
Speaker 2: And I, and I must say too, um, it's like
38:56
Speaker 2: the government we're paying. And when I say government, I'm
38:58
Speaker 2: talking more state and federal, uh, maybe not so much
39:01
Speaker 2: the state, but they too have a portion of this,
39:04
Speaker 2: especially the federal government. It's like I'm paying them taxes
39:10
Speaker 2: for an agency such as the EPA to work against me.
39:14
Speaker 2: It's like they're providing cover for this company. And it's like,
39:17
Speaker 2: you're supposed to be looking out for us, not looking
39:20
Speaker 2: out for this company. And that's what it feels like.
39:23
Speaker 2: I've asked, you know, if everything is kosher, it's like,
39:27
Speaker 2: my thing is, show me the raw data. You know,
39:29
Speaker 2: show me tell me what you're testing. Tell me what
39:32
Speaker 2: the limits are. You know, if I have that and,
39:35
Speaker 2: you know, other scientists agree that it's okay, experts and whatnot,
39:39
Speaker 2: then I will be quiet about this. But it's like,
39:41
Speaker 2: it's the unknown, I think, also that just is elevating
39:45
Speaker 2: this anxiety.
39:47
Speaker 4: And it's the goddamn... gaslighting. Right.
39:50
Speaker 5: I mean, because like, again, like everything that you guys
39:53
Speaker 5: are saying, like we were saying earlier in the conversation,
39:56
Speaker 5: it's like, I'm hearing the same script from different places. Um,
40:01
Speaker 5: you know, like I found out that the EPA was
40:04
Speaker 5: telling my hometown community back in California during the GKN aerospace,
40:11
Speaker 5: you know, like facility crisis, um, that they were using
40:14
Speaker 5: the same air monitors to test the safety levels of
40:18
Speaker 5: chemical exposure that they were using in East Palestine to
40:23
Speaker 5: tell people that it was fine when we know that
40:25
Speaker 5: it wasn't, to tell people that they were safe when
40:29
Speaker 5: we know that they were being exposed to toxic chemicals
40:32
Speaker 5: that were bioaccumulating in their bodies. harming their health and
40:36
Speaker 5: continue to harm their health. Now we're seeing the cancer
40:39
Speaker 5: rate spike. They tell everyone it's fine in the beginning,
40:44
Speaker 5: and then years later, we all see that it wasn't.
40:47
Speaker 5: And not only that, but we learned that they knew
40:49
Speaker 5: that they were lying to us in the first place.
40:51
Speaker 5: And so you can't just come out and say everyone's
40:55
Speaker 5: lying to us all the time. We have to make
41:00
Speaker 5: concerted decisions about, you know, like finding the truth and
41:04
Speaker 5: knowing what the heck is happening and not jumping to conclusions.
41:08
Speaker 5: But the very agencies that we expect to be there
41:11
Speaker 5: to help us do that are demonstrating that that's not
41:14
Speaker 5: what they're there to do, that they're not there to
41:17
Speaker 5: serve us. They're there to serve the companies. They're there
41:19
Speaker 5: to serve, you know, like the political interests. But like,
41:24
Speaker 5: you know, this, this kind of thing, just the script happens,
41:28
Speaker 5: a new disaster happens and like all the same.
41:31
Speaker 4: Crap kicks into gear.
41:33
Speaker 5: And, you know, that, that, that's why it's like, so,
41:35
Speaker 5: you know, reminiscent of the story of, of East Palestine,
41:39
Speaker 5: Ohio and the train derailment and chemical disaster that happened
41:43
Speaker 5: there in 2023, which, which brought Mike and me together. And,
41:48
Speaker 5: you know, we filmed a Izzy award-winning documentary in East
41:51
Speaker 5: Palestine about that catastrophe and, Did it fix the problem? No,
41:56
Speaker 5: because people continue to get sicker and their lives continue
42:00
Speaker 5: to get harder. Property values are going down. Costs of
42:03
Speaker 5: living are going up. Hospital bills are going up. East
42:09
Speaker 5: Palestine became a national example of a preventable catastrophe with
42:14
Speaker 5: disastrous consequences for the people and hardly any for the
42:18
Speaker 5: company that caused their pain. And industrial disasters like this
42:23
Speaker 5: one in Toledo in Brent Industries, and like the fires
42:28
Speaker 5: and explosions at Smitty's Supply in Louisiana, or the Biolab
42:33
Speaker 5: facility in Conyers, Georgia, or that deadly paper mill tank
42:38
Speaker 5: rupture disaster in Longview, Washington that happened earlier this year,
42:43
Speaker 5: and it killed 11 workers. These kinds of disasters always...
42:49
Speaker 5: trigger a sort of traumatic response in, in our consciousness.
42:53
Speaker 5: And it's certainly in mine. And I know everyone who
42:56
Speaker 5: listens to the show. And so I kind of wanted
42:59
Speaker 5: to finish by, by asking, you know, in what ways
43:03
Speaker 5: has the explosions at Brent industries, you know, like been
43:08
Speaker 5: similar and different from what happened in East Palestine.
43:13
Speaker 6: I will say right off the bat, this isn't as bad. Um,
43:16
Speaker 6: what happened in East Palestine is, was on a scale
43:21
Speaker 6: nearly unimaginable. People had called it the Chernobyl of chemical disasters,
43:25
Speaker 6: and I think that's accurate. However, what happened here is
43:29
Speaker 6: still absolutely devastating. Brent Industries is basically straddled by two
43:35
Speaker 6: pretty sizable neighborhoods. Basically, just doing a little on the
43:40
Speaker 6: back of a napkin kind of math, I figure there
43:43
Speaker 6: could be potentially 20,000 people that were affected by this.
43:47
Speaker 6: just based on the direction that the plume went initially.
43:49
Speaker 6: And so I think that in and of itself is very,
43:52
Speaker 6: very concerning. One of the things that I absolutely appreciate
43:56
Speaker 6: from Councilwoman Dr. Jones was that she was pushing for
43:59
Speaker 6: symptom tracking. I think that's absolutely critical at this stage
44:04
Speaker 6: in what's happening and the development of this. If we
44:09
Speaker 6: don't start following this stuff now, when the cancers start happening,
44:13
Speaker 6: when the thyroid issues start happening, When the heart issues
44:17
Speaker 6: start happening down the road a year, two, three, five
44:21
Speaker 6: years from now, we will have no record of this.
44:23
Speaker 6: There will be no evidence. And basically, Brent Industries will
44:28
Speaker 6: have gotten away with it. And at this point, we
44:30
Speaker 6: have a moment where we can actually take care of that.
44:34
Speaker 6: And I think that's very, very important.
44:36
Speaker 4: And Dr.
44:37
Speaker 6: Jones, if you would like to speak on that a
44:39
Speaker 6: little further, I think that would be really helpful.
44:41
Speaker 7: Yeah, thank you for bringing that up. That was actually
44:43
Speaker 7: the next step. of what I'm trying to push for.
44:46
Speaker 7: I've already talked to the director of the health department
44:49
Speaker 7: because at our committee meeting, that question just kept coming
44:54
Speaker 7: in my mind. Who can people go to? Who can
44:57
Speaker 7: people call in order for them to report their symptoms?
45:01
Speaker 7: Even though they're not experiencing them at that moment, we're
45:05
Speaker 7: talking about down the line because it's still there. If
45:07
Speaker 7: you can still smell it and taste it and still
45:10
Speaker 7: having those symptoms, obviously something is still there. And so
45:14
Speaker 7: we need to keep track of that. Unfortunately, the health
45:18
Speaker 7: department does not have something like that. You have to
45:21
Speaker 7: call a number or you have to go to your
45:23
Speaker 7: primary caregiver and they would report back to them. And
45:28
Speaker 7: that's how they usually do the tracking. I said, we
45:30
Speaker 7: can't do that. Mainly because, like I said, Some people
45:34
Speaker 7: can't afford a doctor. Some people don't go to the doctor.
45:37
Speaker 7: And how can you rely on the information from the
45:39
Speaker 7: medical providers? Not saying it's fraudulent, but as far as
45:43
Speaker 7: transferring that information. And then also, what do you do
45:46
Speaker 7: with the data? How can you visualize it? How can
45:50
Speaker 7: you plan for it? How can you do strategy from it?
45:53
Speaker 7: Because we still have to understand that data does tell
45:56
Speaker 7: a story and data is proactive when used the right way.
46:00
Speaker 7: So looking at that, I think it's very important to
46:03
Speaker 7: start doing this, especially if these incidences keep happening and
46:07
Speaker 7: have been happening. As Mike had said, we don't know
46:10
Speaker 7: what's down the line. And thinking about the children, the
46:13
Speaker 7: schools that are within that proximity, that's young and they
46:18
Speaker 7: are very sensitive to a lot of things and that
46:20
Speaker 7: can develop over time. So now we're not talking about physical,
46:24
Speaker 7: but we're talking about mental issues. We're talking about learning capabilities,
46:28
Speaker 7: talking about behavior, because all of that can affect as
46:32
Speaker 7: they get older. It's stored in your system. And so
46:36
Speaker 7: looking at that, we need to start doing this now,
46:39
Speaker 7: have to update our disaster planning. I've been talking to
46:42
Speaker 7: the Lucas County commissioners about that. There is some plan
46:45
Speaker 7: that's in existence.
46:46
Speaker 1: It needs to be updated. So I'm trying to get
46:48
Speaker 1: that updated.
46:50
Speaker 7: But. I don't understand why people are not seeing the
46:52
Speaker 7: urgency in this. So that is what I'm working on.
46:55
Speaker 7: And I need some help in terms of pushing that
46:58
Speaker 7: and trying to get that going. But that is in
47:02
Speaker 7: the works right now. So that I'm very adamant about that.
47:07
Speaker 7: And this needs to be a normal, not a normalized system,
47:11
Speaker 7: not just something that you do temporarily because of this,
47:14
Speaker 7: a normalized system that is part of every incident because
47:18
Speaker 7: we need to start understanding what we could possibly be
47:22
Speaker 7: getting into as a result of these explosions.
47:25
Speaker 2: I do want to say that our health department, Councilman,
47:28
Speaker 2: you might be aware, they did create a webpage which
47:31
Speaker 2: gives information to contact poison control. I guess they're the
47:34
Speaker 2: ones that are doing some of our symptom tracking right now,
47:37
Speaker 2: if I read.
47:38
Speaker 1: No, you're correct.
47:38
Speaker 7: And that was because I reached out to the director
47:41
Speaker 7: and said that he needs to do that.
47:43
Speaker 1: That's what I was talking about.
47:44
Speaker 5: Yeah.
47:45
Speaker 1: So that's why that's happening.
47:47
Speaker 2: So, Max, that might be one thing you want to
47:48
Speaker 2: put in your report. I can actually give you the
47:51
Speaker 2: link to the Lucas County Health Department. That's our county
47:53
Speaker 2: that we live in. The webpage that they set up
47:56
Speaker 2: that gives information on this. It's still not adequate, though,
48:00
Speaker 2: by the way. I say that, Councilman. I know you
48:02
Speaker 2: are doing great, and I appreciate it. I'm talking overall.
48:06
Speaker 2: We're just not equipped as a jurisdiction to handle these
48:09
Speaker 2: types of things as of right now.
48:11
Speaker 8: I'm going to take a nice little walk down to...
48:16
Speaker 8: What we call ground zero. And I will, Max, I
48:19
Speaker 8: can email you, you know, some pictures, some videos, whatever
48:22
Speaker 8: you may need. I can send you the videos that
48:24
Speaker 8: my husband has as well for context. Councilwoman, I commend you.
48:28
Speaker 8: You're doing a fabulous job. We as residents appreciate everything
48:33
Speaker 8: you're trying to do to make sure that our voices
48:34
Speaker 8: are heard. Mike, you guys have been phenomenal. We appreciate you.
48:39
Speaker 8: I know Chris does.
48:40
Speaker 2: I do.
48:40
Speaker 8: The kids do. I think as residents, we grow more
48:43
Speaker 8: concerned every day because there hasn't been answers. There hasn't
48:47
Speaker 8: been any updates. And I understand, you know, Councilwoman Jones
48:50
Speaker 8: and the rest of the council members are doing everything
48:52
Speaker 8: that they can on a city level. Unfortunately, Brent Industries
48:56
Speaker 8: is going to stand by, oh, you're going to be okay.
48:58
Speaker 9: We'll live through it.
48:59
Speaker 8: You're not going to sit here and tell me that
49:00
Speaker 8: a chemical textile plant exploded five doors down from me
49:04
Speaker 8: and we're safe. I'm not going to buy it until
49:07
Speaker 8: I see hard proof. Like I've said from day one,
49:10
Speaker 8: until I see hard proof that proves that I'm not
49:13
Speaker 8: going to believe it. We as a community need to
49:16
Speaker 8: stick together. We need to stay close to each other.
49:19
Speaker 8: We need to stay in contact.
49:20
Speaker 9: With each other. We need to check on each other.
49:23
Speaker 8: I think as far as our kids are concerned, I'm
49:25
Speaker 8: going to follow up with the appointments, especially for our youngest,
49:29
Speaker 8: get her into some therapy for PTSD because clearly she
49:32
Speaker 8: has it. It's in, like Councilwoman said, it's affecting them
49:36
Speaker 8: all differently. And who's to say six months down the
49:38
Speaker 8: road that one of us, I don't develop a blood
49:41
Speaker 8: clot or my husband doesn't, God forbid, develop something or
49:45
Speaker 8: one of my children. And Max, I've seen your video
49:48
Speaker 8: on East Palestine. I actually, before this podcast, I didn't
49:52
Speaker 8: know who you were. So I did my research and
49:55
Speaker 8: I sat and cried when I saw that from East Palestine,
49:58
Speaker 8: just to see the emotion in them people and to
50:01
Speaker 8: see the fact that Three years later and these poor
50:04
Speaker 8: folks are still living the same horrors that I couldn't
50:06
Speaker 8: even imagine knowing what we go through. It's gut-wrenching and
50:10
Speaker 8: it's disgusting. And I think we as a community, we
50:13
Speaker 8: deserve the answers. Whether Brent wants to give them or not,
50:16
Speaker 8: we're not going to stop until we get them.
50:18
Speaker 2: And I will just back up everything that Sarah said.
50:20
Speaker 2: I wholeheartedly agree with her. I will say I've kind
50:24
Speaker 2: of rethink everything and the things I've taken for granted,
50:27
Speaker 2: such as breathing decent air at least. You know, I
50:30
Speaker 2: haven't even had... Today here in Toledo, Ohio, it's in
50:34
Speaker 2: the 70s. Perfect day to have my windows open. I'm
50:37
Speaker 2: scared to have them open. I have this cough. I
50:40
Speaker 2: feel like I'm going to cough my esophagus up. In fact,
50:42
Speaker 2: I was worried about having these coughing pets on the call.
50:46
Speaker 2: I can't shake it.
50:48
Speaker 9: The kids haven't shaken it either.
50:49
Speaker 4: Yeah.
50:49
Speaker 9: They're still sick.
50:51
Speaker 1: Yeah.
50:52
Speaker 2: It's a dry cough. Thankfully, I was having, immediately after
50:56
Speaker 2: the explosion, I was having these headaches. Thankfully, that has
50:59
Speaker 2: gone away for myself. I'm only speaking for myself. But
51:02
Speaker 2: this cough that I have, it's terrible. It's absolutely terrible.
51:06
Speaker 2: Like I said, I can't shake it. And I cannot
51:08
Speaker 2: tell you the last time I've been sick.
51:10
Speaker 9: This is our new norm in this household.
51:12
Speaker 8: When a 16-year-old has to take two of these just
51:15
Speaker 8: to go to school and two of them just to
51:17
Speaker 8: go to bed because his headaches are so bad, when
51:19
Speaker 8: you have to buy a bottle this big to last
51:22
Speaker 8: because everybody's experiencing some sort of symptom, there's an issue.
51:27
Speaker 4: And I guess for.
51:27
Speaker 5: Folks listening, Sarah's holding up an industrial-sized bottle of ibuprofen.
51:32
Speaker 2: And that's what greed will do to a community when
51:35
Speaker 2: they value the dollar over the lives of human beings.
51:40
Speaker 4: And it's sad.
51:41
Speaker 6: I just want to add one experience I had as well.
51:44
Speaker 6: So we invited Scott Smith, the independent scientist who's been
51:48
Speaker 6: going around to various sacrifice zones, blowing the whistle on
51:52
Speaker 6: the contamination there and. We went out on Saturday. We
51:57
Speaker 6: did most of our testing. But then Sunday before he left,
52:01
Speaker 6: this was at the end of August, we went back
52:04
Speaker 6: down just so he could get a few pictures and
52:07
Speaker 6: stuff before he headed out of town. It was a foggy,
52:10
Speaker 6: kind of rainy day that day. And I've heard a
52:12
Speaker 6: lot from East Palestine residents about them experiencing smells and
52:18
Speaker 6: other issues on days like that. And The smell at
52:22
Speaker 6: Ground Zero was atrocious. It was more intense than anything
52:26
Speaker 6: I have ever, ever smelled in any of the disasters
52:31
Speaker 6: that I've been to. I've been into contaminated homes in
52:34
Speaker 6: East Palestine, and I've never experienced anything like this. I
52:37
Speaker 6: got a huge head buzz. I've gotten head buzzes off
52:42
Speaker 6: of going into the creek with you, Max, when we
52:44
Speaker 6: went and filmed our documentary. I got head buzzes from
52:48
Speaker 6: going into residents' homes. But these were... slight to moderate,
52:53
Speaker 6: this was extreme. This was, um, I felt like I
52:57
Speaker 6: was going to throw up at one point. Um, I
52:59
Speaker 6: was just so dizzy and just out of it basically.
53:03
Speaker 6: And so, um, just that experience alone led me to
53:07
Speaker 6: believe that there is definitely some significant contamination there. Um,
53:12
Speaker 6: we've smelled the smells coming out of the Creek. We've
53:14
Speaker 6: seen the sheen, uh, in the Creek behind Brent Industries, uh,
53:18
Speaker 6: And I can only imagine what people who are living
53:21
Speaker 6: in it have to experience. I get to leave the area.
53:25
Speaker 6: You know, I live several miles away, not downwind of it, luckily.
53:30
Speaker 6: And so most of what I experience here at home
53:34
Speaker 6: isn't isn't even close to what residents in the immediate
53:38
Speaker 6: area are experiencing. And so I think that's an important
53:41
Speaker 6: thing to recognize. I was outside. I wasn't in somebody's
53:44
Speaker 6: house like I had been before. And this just hit
53:48
Speaker 6: me like a ton of bricks. And that's really concerning
53:51
Speaker 6: to me.
53:52
Speaker 2: And Max, another thing too, I know we got to
53:53
Speaker 2: wrap up real quick, but even after the fire department,
53:57
Speaker 2: by the way, the entire city of Toledo dispatched their
54:00
Speaker 2: fire department, we had to call in neighboring communities to
54:03
Speaker 2: cover for the department that we, the areas that have
54:06
Speaker 2: to respond to this fire over here. But something else
54:09
Speaker 2: that I think should be pointed out here is even
54:11
Speaker 2: days following the explosion, we had these issues with re-ignition.
54:15
Speaker 2: And the fire department would have to come back again.
54:17
Speaker 2: I can't tell you how many times that at least
54:20
Speaker 2: three times where, you know, the scenes, everything's all locked,
54:24
Speaker 2: gated up. But these chemicals would start mixing and they'd
54:27
Speaker 2: have a reaction and they would start to to to
54:31
Speaker 2: inflate again. So, you know, I think that just adds
54:35
Speaker 2: also to the toxicity of what is over there in
54:38
Speaker 2: that on that property.
54:45
Speaker 4: All right, gang.
54:46
Speaker 5: Well, that's going to wrap things up for us today.
54:49
Speaker 5: I sincerely want to thank all of our guests from Toledo, Ohio,
54:54
Speaker 5: Councilwoman Dr. Brittany Jones, Mike Balonic, local filmmaker and Sacrifice
55:00
Speaker 5: Zone advocate, and Sarah Locker and Chris Ramsdell, who both
55:04
Speaker 5: live right next to the Brent Industries facility where the
55:07
Speaker 5: deadly explosions happened on August 18th. And of course, I
55:12
Speaker 5: want to thank you all for listening and for watching.
55:14
Speaker 5: And I want to thank you for caring about this.
55:16
Speaker 5: We do all of this work for you, but we
55:19
Speaker 5: cannot do it without you. Working People is brought to
55:22
Speaker 5: you in partnership with In These Times Magazine and The
55:25
Speaker 5: Real News Network. This show is produced by the great
55:28
Speaker 5: Jules Taylor and is a proud member of the Labor.
55:31
Speaker 4: Radio Podcast Network.
55:33
Speaker 5: We'll see y'all back here next time for another episode
55:36
Speaker 5: of Working People. And in the meantime, please go explore
55:41
Speaker 5: all the great work that we're doing at The Real
55:43
Speaker 5: News Network.
55:44
Speaker 4: Thank you.
55:44
Speaker 5: Thank you. Thank you. It really makes a difference. I'm
56:14
Speaker 5: Maximilian Alvarez. Take care of yourselves. Take care of each other.
56:19
Speaker 5: Solidarity forever.
56:27
Speaker 10: When my face you no longer see, I live on, yes,
56:31
Speaker 10: I live on.
56:32
Speaker 4: Wherever we go.
56:34
Speaker 10: We are going to roll the union on. The song,
56:38
Speaker 10: I live on, yes, I live on. Wherever hungry, hungry
56:42
Speaker 10: are we. Just as hungry as hungry can be. The song,
56:48
Speaker 10: I live on.
56:49
Speaker 4: Yes, I live on.
56:51
Speaker 10: Where mean things are happening in this land, it's read
56:54
Speaker 10: a song, I live on.
56:56
Speaker 5: Yes, I live on.
56:58
Speaker 10: Wherever the book, mean things are happening in this land,
57:01
Speaker 10: it's read, I live on. Yes, I live on. Wherever
57:06
Speaker 10: the videotape of me is shown, I live on.
57:10
Speaker 2: Yes, I live on.
57:12
Speaker 10: If I have help to make this a better world
57:15
Speaker 10: to live in, I'll live on.
57:18
Speaker 5: Yes, I'll live on.
57:20
Speaker 10: When my body is solid and in some bones and brain,
57:24
Speaker 10: I'll live on.
57:26
Speaker 2: Yes, I'll live on.
57:28
Speaker 10: When my songs and poems are read, I'll live on. Yes,
57:33
Speaker 10: I'll live on.
57:48
Speaker 4: Thank you.