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E37: Navigating the Wild - Map, Compass & Self-Discovery · The Junto Podcast

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Hello, America. Welcome to the Junto Podcast, where we promote the practical
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applications of critical thinking and bold creativity.
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I am your host, Edgar Mills. Thanks for joining.
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Hello, America. Welcome back to the Juneto podcast. Thank you so much for staying
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with me. I appreciate each and every one of you.
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So today, episode 37, I'm calling it Navigating the Wild.
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I think that's what I'm calling it. So I want to talk about the land nav course
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that we just did this past weekend.
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The two team guys, three day land navigation course.
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I love doing land. Well, I love teaching land navigation and it's fun and it's
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a good way to get out into the woods for a while and things like that.
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This course, I would say is equal parts skill building because you're learning
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a lot of technical skills and equal parts soul searching.
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Yeah. If you don't know what it's like when you strip away the modern distractions,
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right, and you throw yourself into the forest and all you have to navigate is
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a map and compass, no GPS, or if you do know and then you just thrive on that,
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then this episode is going to resonate.
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So we're going to talk about the course itself, the structure,
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some of the personalities that emerged under a little bit of pressure,
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and then some of the other residual benefits that you get,
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kind of leadership, personal growth, and things like that.
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So let's get into it then. The three-day land navigation course is designed
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to teach map and compass land navigation.
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And it's drawn from a tried and true military method, right?
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All the doctrine that I use during that course is derived directly from FM 3-25.26,
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which is the Army Field Manual, Map Reading and Land Navigation.
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And it's it's the universal grid system
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military grid reference system UTM that's
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the methodology there that's the system that they used to read the maps in that
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and we provide all those things folks the maps compass protractors all that
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for the three-day course we provide all that and you get to keep that stuff
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but how's the course broken down what's the structure of it well,
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day one which is a Friday now look if you guys are trying to set up a course
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and we can schedule anytime this one just happened to be day one was Friday
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and the day one is all classroom,
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and that is diving into all the technical content folks map data the the UTM system and,
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all the technical things, how to read a map, how to get a grid, how to.
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To get grid azimuth and convert it, all these things.
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And all that doctrine that I talked about from the military manual,
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and that's also mixed in with my experience, right?
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I was in the military for 25 years. And I got news for you, good people.
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I was not a natural navigator.
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I was not born with a sense of direction. I was born in the city and lived most
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of my days in a city environment or suburban or urban environment.
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So land navigation was new to me when
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I joined the army, but I've done a considerable amount of it in my time.
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And it's fun and it's a good skill that you should have.
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Now I'm not, not to be a conspiracy theorist, but the GPS might not always work, folks.
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Just might not always work. Let's see. So yeah, day one is all classroom.
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And then And we do go out in the
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middle of the day, well, later in the afternoon, and we do a terrain walk.
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We go out and walk in the Black's Bluff Preserve and Gansan Terrain Association.
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And I think that's very critical that we do that because there's a lot of good
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terrain out here to look at.
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And so it's very easy to go stand out there and translate what's on your map
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to what's on the earth in front of you.
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So it's the classroom portion is very intensive and there's a whole lot of information.
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But that's the point. I mean, one, there's a lot of information to know about navigating.
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Yeah, there's just a lot of information to know.
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And it's all practical information. It's not like just superfluous stuff.
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Like it's all very practical because it all adds to, to use a cliche, tools in your toolbox.
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Because you might use any number of methods out there while you're moving across the earth.
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So at any rate, it's very intensive. There's a lot of information.
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But we have to build a pretty good foundation before we go out to the forest, folks.
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We have to build a good foundation. Now, ultimately, the foundation is this.
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If you can plot a point...
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And get an azimuth, that's the bare minimum foundation.
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Now, as you start walking and moving and dead reckoning versus terrain association
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versus breaking brush versus walking the roads and all that stuff,
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all the different things kick in.
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But you have to be able to plot a grid and you have to be able to get a grid
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azimuth and convert it to a magnetic azimuth.
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And then you have to be able to read your compass. And I'm going to say this.
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This is a little side note. I didn't mean to put this in this episode here,
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but I have been using Silva Ranger 2.0 compasses and they're very good.
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But so far I have come across two compasses where the North Seeking Arrow,
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the magnetic North Arrow on the compass was backwards.
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Yeah. And it's weird when you discover that too, because one guy's over there
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thinking that you just, he's lost in the sauce.
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I'm like, okay, here's this, here's that. There's north.
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And then this guy's standing backwards and he's like, what the hell are you talking to? Yeah.
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Two compasses I've come across from Silva, Ranger 2.0, where the magnetic arrow
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was backwards or the color, you know, the red portion.
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So based on that alone, I think I'm going to start using Suunto compasses.
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That's just a side note. I'd never seen that with any military compass,
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you know, the green lensatic compasses. I'd never seen that.
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Anyway, strange, but it happens. I guess that's quality control from,
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I guess they got a factory, you know. I don't imagine they're all hand-built.
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All right, dang, back to it. That was a little detour there.
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So, yeah, the class lasts, you know, anywhere from 8 to 10 hours.
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I mean, we break for lunch, but, yeah, we're here for a while.
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And then the next morning, bright and early, we link up for the practical exercise out.
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This one we did in the Talladega National Forest near Piedmont, Alabama.
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It's a big space. There's lots of rough terrain.
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And the lanes point to point straight line
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distance there's five points total and that
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covers 25 miles but don't be
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fooled that's that's straight line distance and some
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guys a couple of dudes they did 35 miles total and you would think well they
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did a lot of zigzagging through the woods and stuff one guy ran the roads the
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whole time literally the whole time and he he logged in about 35 miles.
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That's 10 more miles than necessary.
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But that being said, in the Talladega National Forest, you can't necessarily
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dead reckon effectively.
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There is some rough, rough terrain out there, folks.
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And it's a 24-hour overnighter that you get. I think they launched at about 930 Saturday morning.
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So they had all day to daylight till, you know, 430 or 5 whenever it got dark.
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And then it was the rest of the time, night.
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If you're smart, you try to cover a lot of ground during the day and then take it easy at night.
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I imagine a couple of guys took naps and whatnot. It was pretty chilly though,
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but it's a very no frills.
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Just, just you, the forest, the darkness and, and time. That's it.
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The course is meant for you to be moving the whole time. But again,
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you got problem solving to do out there on your own.
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You do what the Lord guides you to do.
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So it's that, that's how it is. It's one day in the classroom and then a 24-hour
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overnighter walking through the woods trying to find those points.
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What's unique about this class is, well, watching, even during the classroom
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portion, is watching some of the personalities emerge.
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Now, these guys were all common friends.
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And they set up a course just for them. And they were common friends.
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They all, I think maybe one guy, James, might have been the central guy who
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knew everyone, but they all knew each other, sort of.
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So they already had, a few of them were good buddies, so they already kind of
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knew each other's personalities.
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But there were a couple of guys that I saw straight away that did not know each
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other's personalities. Yeah.
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And it was interesting to watch it unfold. because we, during that class,
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I mean, we introduced some new concepts to these folks and some very technical concepts.
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And just explaining the magnetic pull, the declination scale,
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and resection and intersection, that kind of stuff, there's a lot of steps involved,
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a lot of numbers involved. And if you're like me, you don't math very well.
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And there was some frustration that started to emerge.
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And then there was some guys doing a lot of talking and other guys trying to
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do some listening, but it wasn't doing well. So it was very interesting.
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So by the time we get done with all that stuff now I think I'm a fairly good instructor however,
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so I cannot I probably
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don't speak to everyone's learning style different people have different learning
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styles and some guys might get the the way I'm explaining things I try to do
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it in multiple ways and I feel maybe like a little bit of a failure if if somebody
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doesn't grasp a concept,
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but I had my son helping and another fellow, young fellow helping.
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And I, you know, and they were probably laying things out slightly different,
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which, but if you launch out of here after the class and, and you don't grasp all the concepts,
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well, it may be interesting out in the woods.
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But learning does happen. Look, even if you think you're lost,
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you're picking up, even in uncertain gray areas where you're not 100% sure,
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as you start to put different pieces of the puzzle together,
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people start to get things.
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But here's the interesting piece is that, specifically in this instance,
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but generally, You know, you got dudes out here in their 30s,
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40s who haven't sat in like a student role in probably a couple of decades.
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And they do various, you know, they might be professionals or dads or they might
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lead their own companies.
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They might do a lot of things. But when it comes time to sit in a classroom and do a pop quiz,
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plotting the points and calculating azimuths and trying to get that resection,
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you start to see some frustration creep in.
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And then they kind of go back to when you were in school.
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It kind of takes them back a little bit, I think. Maybe. Maybe.
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So, yeah, you can see I saw some frustration on some of the guys. And it's good, man.
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It's good. There's nothing wrong with that. I think as grown men,
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you need to be put in some uncomfortable situations where you got to fight through
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atypical frustration, right?
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Like not something that you deal with all the time and you get a new kind of
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problem, a new kind of challenge.
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And it's helpful for you to fight through that.
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Yeah, it is. And the pressure from the technical content, right?
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There's a lot of technical, I can't, I can't stress that enough.
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There's a lot of technical content when it comes to map reading.
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That pressure in a controlled classroom environment, that's sort of that it's, it's helpful, right?
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It's kind of a low stakes way to, to build up your sort of mental resilience
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when you fight through these problems that you're not used to dealing with.
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Because once you leave this classroom and you go out into the darkness of the forest,
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that's only going to be exacerbated when it's cold and dark and maybe even rainy
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a little bit and you're out there lost in the sauce.
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So it's good to be frustrated in the classroom And then work through it and
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fight through it and figure out, okay, I think I got it now.
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I'm ready for the forest.
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So, common threads, right? Leadership and team building are the common threads
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to all the two team guys courses.
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But LandNav is unique because it's sort of an exception in that it's flexible.
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For instance, you can do the course solo or you can do it in two-man teams or
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even small teams if you so desire.
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It depends on what your learning objectives are. Yeah. If team building is a
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learning objective, it can be a group effort.
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And there's value in that. There is value in that because when you're out in
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the woods, so in that course, I have a little video clip as an ice breaker.
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And it's the clip from Tropic Thunder where they're kind of walking by the river
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and they're lost and tug spiegman has the map but but osiris he wants the map.
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It's brilliant. And it is so accurate.
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When you're in a group of dudes and the guy who's supposed to be navigating
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is lost, but he don't know how to break it to everyone.
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And you find out you've walked five miles out of the way.
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Yeah, man. There's a lot of teamwork involved if you're going to navigate unknown
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space like that. And that's good.
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This time around, most of the guys went solo.
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But there were two dudes that teamed up because they just happened
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to have the first they both had the same
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first point their lanes were different but their their
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first point was the same and interestingly
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enough those two guys did not find a single point now I'm not busting their
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chops I'm just saying that prompts some interesting questions doesn't it like
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would they have been better off just going solo and just trusting their own
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instincts and not having someone else to consider?
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Were they able to adapt to each other's personalities under a little bit of
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stress, a little bit of cold, a little bit of darkness?
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I don't know. Or the other way, right? Did they just find comfort and share
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being miserable together?
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So they're like, yeah, Let's throw up camp here.
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Questions, those questions right
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there, folks. I mean, they're not just relevant to the land nav course.
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They're relevant to any job, anywhere you work with other humans.
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You've got questions like that, right? Are you able to adapt to other people's
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personality under stress?
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Do you work better by yourself or in a small group or a team?
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Yeah. Or are you just happy being misery loves company, man?
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And just so you know, in the military, it's very common that when you are with
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another dude and you go through considerable hardships, just absolute proper misery—,
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That forges bonds, like lifelong bonds right there.
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So sometimes, I mean, maybe it's not the wrong answer, you know.
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They didn't find any points, but they may be friends for life. You don't know.
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So they're relevant, those questions, right? Because collaboration, it can be a strength.
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I mean, most businesses, you must collaborate. It's just the way it is.
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Very few things out there are one man, you know, one man show,
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one man operation, but collaboration can also like exacerbate the,
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the, the mismatches, right?
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If, if your leadership isn't on the job and they, and they put up two totally
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opposite personalities and it just creates.
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Turmoil and constant bickering and, and things like that. And I think you'll see productivity drop.
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And next thing you know, now the leader has to reevaluate. It looks like you guys are all effed up.
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And you may be. I mean, you should be able to adapt to a degree,
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but maybe the leadership should be a little more thoughtful in the way they pair teams up.
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Everybody has strengths and weaknesses. And so a good place to find that is
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out in the middle of the woods in the middle of the night.
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On the flip side of that, though, going solo for a 24-hour overnight challenge,
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that means you got nobody to rely on but yourself.
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And for some people, that's perfect. That's paradise. They're happy.
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No distractions, no compromises, no make nice, you know, just drive on and do it.
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For other people, that puts you in a very uncomfortable spot that's that's you
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alone with yourself in the forest wrestling with your own demons and,
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or the, the other various pervasive thoughts that, you know,
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we get distracted from when we got our little cell phones and our computer and
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our TV and we got people around us and we don't have to think about those, those deeper things.
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And when you're out in the middle of the woods for 24 hours,
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folks, you think about the deeper things.
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Yeah. It's just you and the trees and that, and that inner voice. Yeah.
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And that can be powerful stuff for self-reflection. Yeah, it really can.
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But it can also be powerfully crushing too when you've got to deal with yourself.
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Because some of us, you might not like yourself too much.
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Or you might have a superficial persona that shines when you're around other people.
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But when you're alone, it's just you and the truth then.
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I didn't mean to go dark on that. Yeah.
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Self-reflection. Just enjoy the time alone. I do imagine some guys do it just
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to get out of the house away from the wife and kids for a little bit.
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Not that you want to be away from your wife and kids.
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So is it worth it? Is this three-day land nav challenge worth it?
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Why is it worth it? I think it's, of course I think it's worth it.
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Otherwise I wouldn't put it on.
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Was the course hard? Yeah. I mean, a little bit, maybe not too hard in terms of terrain.
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Yeah, there was rough terrain, but there are plenty of, of, you know,
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forest roads out there to help guide you along.
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Yeah. One guy, like I said, he ran the roads the whole time.
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Did a lot of backtracking 10 additional miles in fact, but still challenging though.
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I think, I think absolutely. I think it's challenging.
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I mean, 35 miles overnight is no easy, it's no breeze, you know what I mean?
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I know all you ultra runners out there, that's nothing, but yeah,
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especially if you're breaking brush, negotiating cross-country terrain,
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that's a bit of a grind, isn't it?
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But, but, and also you're out there stuck in your head, right? For hours on end.
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That can mess with you when it's, Hey, when it's the middle of the night,
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it don't matter if you're a perfectly mentally and emotionally healthy person or not.
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You might even start seeing things that happens, folks. It really happens.
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Especially when the moon's just about so bright, you know, it's,
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and, and, and there's shadows dancing around out there.
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And, you know, you hear some coyotes off in the distance, but you see movement.
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You think you see movement it starts
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messing with and especially if you're sleepy yeah so
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there's a lot of stuff going on out there in the middle of the night so yeah it's a challenge yeah
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it's a challenge never mind implementing the technical skills that we talked
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about in the class like you have to have that yeah so all those little things
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add up and and so yes it is a challenging course and it's worthy of your time
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and effort because yeah,
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it pushes you physically to a little bit mentally,
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you know, to a degree, maybe even emotionally.
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Yeah. And that's where growth happens out there in the wee hours.
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And that's why people do these things, right? A little growth to learn if it's
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just straight up to get some more knowledge on a thing you don't have knowledge on.
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But when you do hard things you're trying
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to learn about yourself too at what point do you
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quit is quitting an option for at all
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as as you get older and you start to well you start thinking about your priority
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you learn how to prioritize things and physical stuff will really put some get
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that'll do that that'll help you learn to prioritize if you're walking out in
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the woods breaking brush at 3 a.m.
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And you're off road and you're cross country in it and you might be asking yourself
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you know what the hell am I doing here well.
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What have I undertaken? Why am I here? Is this worth it?
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And a lot of times you'll come to the conclusion, yes. I think when you got
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a group of friends out there, nobody wants to be the guy that quit, right?
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You don't want to embarrass yourself in front of your homies who they see you
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one way and you see yourself a certain way.
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So there's just so many factors involved, so many factors.
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Yeah, is it challenging? Yeah. Is it worth it? Yeah. Yeah, it's worth it.
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It's worth it to get out there and especially if you've never done anything like that.
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Yeah, especially if you've never done anything like that. And the goodness,
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now I'm not saying, I got a lot of friends who do all the ultra running and all that.
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And that's a whole different kind of thing.
24:40
You've got, you're questioning yourself. And if you, if you guys haven't listened,
24:44
my friend Nathan does a podcast called everyday grit, everyday grit.
24:49
And, and you can get a lot of insight on what if, you know, when you're out
24:53
there in the wild running and the different emotional,
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the rollercoaster, the emotional rollercoaster and all these things. Did I prep enough?
25:05
Am I, am I, is my loadout? Like, do you pack the right food or the right snackies
25:13
or did all of, did you train enough?
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These people start a training regimen.
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I don't even know, man, like months, months and months out to go do a single race.
25:27
Different from that, even though this is 25 miles, which compared to a 100-mile
25:32
run is nothing, you have to find your way.
25:37
Yeah. And it adds that mental, technical mental challenge that you got to keep
25:43
that in order while you're out there.
25:47
So, yeah, it's different. It's different.
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You should be able to do technical things while you're sucking. Yeah.
25:56
And yeah, nevermind the fitness part. All right.
25:59
So I want to, so one guy sent me, a couple of guys sent me some feedback,
26:03
but I want to share, I want to share this one.
26:06
I'm not going to say his name, but I'm going to quote part of his email back to me.
26:11
And it kind of captures the essence of, of the course and what he said,
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but he says this, he says, Edgar, I just want to let, or I just want to tell
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you how much I appreciate what I learned this weekend,
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not just about Land Nav, which you better believe I'm going to keep honing,
26:28
but also about what I learned about myself.
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I've always been stubborn and refused to give up to anything,
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but this was an assault on my psyche, and I overcame more than I ever have.
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I can't thank you enough for that.
26:43
Folks, that's the goodness of this type of experience. This course This wasn't
26:50
just about finding points on a map.
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It's also, in addition, about finding something in yourself.
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Maybe something new. Maybe something that you once had and you thought you lost it.
27:05
Or maybe even just some new perspectives that will help you shape your daily life.
27:12
Yeah. It's about more than just finding the points. There's so much to be gained
27:16
if you're open to the experience.
27:19
If you're open to the experience, there's so much to be gained.
27:23
So if this type of training interests you, please do check out twoteamguys.com.
27:30
Everything we do, leadership, development,
27:34
and team building make up the foundation for all of our courses.
27:40
We have a one-day, a two-day, and a three-day land navigation course,
27:45
which can be done solo or in teams.
27:49
We do a search and rescue mountaineer course in partnership with Nathan Hicks
27:54
of Higher Ground, also of Everyday Grip Podcast.
27:59
And that's a good one. It's one of the best. I love that.
28:07
We do a situational awareness course that can either focus on suburban or urban environment.
28:14
There's a classroom portion and then a practical exercise.
28:18
We do a long-range evasion course, which is scenario-based, and that's using
28:24
multiple modes of transportation to get from point A to point B with minimal resources.
28:34
It's a very gray man sort of thing and it's it's it's an interesting course,
28:39
and it's a little bit of a suck fest but it's a very interesting course and there is some,
28:48
personality and teamwork that emerges in that as well we do small unit mission
28:54
which I would say is less of a course and more of an experience.
28:58
However, the focus of that is time-sensitive leadership and teamwork.
29:04
Yeah, that's it. It's time-sensitive.
29:08
It's a scenario-based course, and there's sort of a high-stakes objective,
29:14
but you have time constraints.
29:16
You have minimal resources that you have to get the most out of. It's excellent.
29:25
And then we have surviving captivity. And it is what it sounds like, folks.
29:29
And it's designed around international travelers, church missionaries,
29:35
salesmen, anyone who goes to other countries who might not have the big corporate
29:44
security or the kidnap and ransom insurance or the high-end security team.
29:53
And you go to maybe a third world country for some conference or trying to make
30:01
a sale or trying to break into a market that is untapped, yeah,
30:06
you might find yourself in a situation.
30:07
And it's very much about preparation to travel and understanding the environment
30:15
you're going into and the culture you're going into,
30:18
and then how to move about without raising a bunch of eyebrows,
30:24
without making yourself a target.
30:27
And then your contingencies while you're there, you know, communications, et cetera, and all that.
30:34
So that's a good one. It's awesome.
30:37
It's resource intensive, but it's, I would say, if anything, yes, you will learn.
30:43
The goodness of that is the academic portion. There's a lot to learn there,
30:47
but the experience is what you're going to remember for the rest of your life.
30:53
And it's an emotional event. All right.
30:56
So, yeah, like I said, all these courses, with the exception of land navigation,
31:00
they're all scenario based.
31:02
And what this does is it gives you tasks to do, to accomplish in very specific
31:09
contexts with very definite time and equipment constraints.
31:15
So yeah, it's good stuff. It's, it challenges you.
31:19
It challenges you, your ability to lead your ability to delegate.
31:26
Your ability to adapt to other personalities under stress, your ability to be
31:33
a good follower as well as be a good leader.
31:37
Yeah, all those things. It's all there.
31:40
So please do check them out. Feel free to reach out with questions, good people.
31:45
I'm more than happy to talk details about these courses, about the two team guys catalog.
31:52
Feel free to reach out. And those are all by, you know, demand, right?
31:58
If you have four, you need four people minimum to do any course.
32:04
That's it, four people. And we can comfortably hold up to 10 people.
32:08
It depends on the course, potentially 12, but the happy zone is six to eight folks.
32:16
Minimum is four.
32:19
So having that knowledge, you know, do go to the website and check it out.
32:23
And other than that, folks, please support us at OspreyShootingSolutions.com.
32:28
We got the Baby It's Cold Outside match coming up December 20th.
32:32
And please do go to GiveSendGo.com backslash Help a Homie Fund.
32:40
That's the effort to literally help homies, help people who need it,
32:46
who don't have the capacity or the wherewithal to go to a more formalized, to a shelter.
32:53
Right there, or whatever. It'll help us get a meal to somebody.
32:58
It'll help get somebody's,
33:01
You know, maybe car worked on, it'll help get a jacket or some clean socks to a homeless guy.
33:08
Whatever it is, whatever the
33:09
need is I see out there that helps me address it in the space of my life.
33:16
So please consider that. Other than that, folks, you know, I thank you so much for listening.
33:23
So just keep on keeping on, you know, navigate your own path.
33:28
Find your own azimuth and then travel it
33:31
until you feel like you need to adjust and then and then
33:33
keep you know get a new get a new azimuth
33:36
and move out i'm here to help you guys in in any capacity that i can to do that
33:43
to navigate your own path all right folks that's what i wanted to talk about
33:47
this is a short one but i think succinct i appreciate each and every one of you Take care.
33:55
I'm sure you'll hear from me before Christmas.
33:58
I'll hold my Merry Christmases until later.