Latest / Bourbon & Rum / Christmas Conversations: Politics, Family, and Keeping It Civil

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Christmas Conversations: Politics, Family, and Keeping It Civil · Bourbon & Rum

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It's true, I had to take a wedding vow to root for the
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Dallas Cowboys, so that's probably my hardest wedding vow
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to uphold. IA 100% believe that the
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polarization is a creation of the system to protect the
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system. Whether you win or Uncle Fred
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wins the argument. Is he going to change anything
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on the planet? Welcome to Bourbon and Rum, the
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podcast dedicated to civil conversation.
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I'm Kent, I like rum and I'm from the left side of the aisle.
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And I'm Kyle. I like bourbon.
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I tend to be a little more conservative.
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We're brothers talking politics for bourbon and rum.
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What are you drinking? Well, I'm sipping on a Henry
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McKenna bottled and bombed. It's a 10 year bourbon out of
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the Heaven Hill Distillery down in down in Kentucky.
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And yeah, really smooth whiskey. It was really one of these that
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was really hard to find for a while.
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It's like, man, you could never get it anywhere.
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And now it's like everywhere. And it's funny.
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There's a, if anybody hears the Jim Gaffigan does a, he's got a
1:19
new bourbon related comedy show and he's and he goes through
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like the stages. Like, you know, I don't know
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what the stages are, but you know, like stage 1, you drink a
1:30
lot of it and stage 2 you, you spend a bunch of money and you
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hide purchases. And like the last stage is not
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only are you drinking all this stuff, but you're actually
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watching shows on YouTube, other people looking for bourbon and
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which I do. And but this guy was saying he's
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out. He's been searching and all the
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high end stuff like Pappy, the prices are coming way down
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because I think the I think the peak is over, which is good.
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Well, yeah. And honestly, it's been hot for
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long enough that places can can start putting away enough stock
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to start getting ahead of the curve.
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I don't know what's a lot of the lot of the ones you drink.
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I mean, we're not talking about 20 year.
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I mean, obviously those are around, but a lot of the stuff
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that you're looking for are three, four, Year 5.
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I don't know what like not super agey like scotches or anything.
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Yeah, I mean, 10 years, I mean, the really good stuff is 10/10
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plus. But yeah, I mean, it's so much
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of it is just hype. What are you drinking on?
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I am drinking this. I've had this before.
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It's not very good. It is Bolivar and this is their
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eight-year specialty blend, and it is made in Venezuela, named
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after. Venezuela I kick.
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Exactly named after Simon Bolivar, the Liberator of much
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of South America. So, you know, fun fact, Simon
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Bolivar, Bolivia take took his name.
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Yeah. So a great a great revolutionary
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leader. Well, this is going to be our
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Christmas episode for this year, which is kind of fun, kind of
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fun to look. You know, what we didn't do is
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run it through AI and have it pull out the best obnoxious
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quotes from us for the entire last year.
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But it is kind of, you know, everything does their year in
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review. But so we might do a little of
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that, a little of a review of what we've talked about how far
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the world's come in the last year.
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And then the other thing we thought is that holiday season,
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you know, especially over the last 10-15 years, I don't know,
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have become kind of contentious for people.
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Politics has always been a little, a little divisive.
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But I think everybody would agree that the temperature has
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gone way up on that. And we know that our listeners
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are probably going to be spending time with family and
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may have some dread about how their own conversations go.
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But This is why we started. This is the we wanted to be able
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to talk to each other in a civil and respectful and hopefully
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constructive way. And we thought we would throw
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out sort of, you know, what we've learned doing this that
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might be useful to you, dear listener, when you're around
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people that disagree with you. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a
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increasingly problematic issue. And I don't know, I mean, I will
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say I think it's been worse, I mean, since the initial Trump
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presidency. I think is the is the height of
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the, the probably the, the contentiousness of holiday fears
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of people talking. But it's always been an issue to
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a degree of people worried about everybody fighting and and
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arguing over politics. I think maybe one of the
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differences is, you know, in the past politic and I think some of
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it is a Trump thing, but I think some of it is also a social
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media thing in that, you know, 20 years ago, we'd be sitting
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around and if we were talking about politics, you know, some
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people would be like politics, Why are you talking about
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politics? Like it was a it was a smaller
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segment of the society that was really concerned with national
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government, the national politics.
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You know, everybody else is talking about sports or
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something else. But then I think a big part of
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it is, well, you want Trump's getting a lot of sound bites and
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Stern starting to mediate up. That was part of his strategy.
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But also you've got TikTok and you've got Instagram and you got
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all these voices now. And it's like everybody's got a
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political opinion now. And it it seems like, you know,
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if you took a family gathering today to a family gathering 30
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years ago, on average, my guess is there's not nearly as much
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political talk 30 years ago than there is now.
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I think that's a really, really good observation.
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And I'll say that in addition to the way social media makes
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things ubiquitous, the other thing it does is that it drives
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us down into the weeds. I mean, if people talked about
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politics in the past, OK, are we, are we going to war with
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Venezuela or not? I mean, that's a that's a big
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topic, right? Did the, did the bill pass that
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was going to change the tax structure?
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That's, you know, those are kind of like big ticket items.
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But honestly, we don't, it's not just big ticket items that we're
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looking at now. Now it's the whatever happened
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in the last news cycle and who holds JD Vance's hand or not, or
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whether his wife's wearing her wedding ring.
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You know what I mean? Like.
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Or, or like which electric car is OK and which one is crosses a
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political boundary or, you know, it's like everything, there's
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some political angle. And yeah, so it's it is in some
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respects, it's in the past. I think you could have just hey,
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here's your strategy for politics.
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Don't bring it up. But now it's like every topic,
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it's intertwined with every topic.
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Yeah, well, I, I, I think about this with our, with our mother
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because different times, we'll I'll just be having
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conversations with her and she'll say something just kind
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of matter of fact. And I'm like, but.
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And you know, is it doing any good to go?
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You know what I mean? Like you you if I if I picked
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out everything that kind of rubbed me the wrong way, like we
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wouldn't even have conversations.
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Yeah, Well, part of it too. It's funny and I think we've
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talked about it before, but, you know, like it would be
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refreshing for me for a political candidate or even, you
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know, even a president or a senator or somebody and and
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somebody raises some obscure. What do you think about this to
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say, Yeah, I don't know. I don't have an opinion, but
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nobody ever says that. I mean, they've got an opinion
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on every stinking possible thing, you know?
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So these people run for president and it's like, well,
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you know, what's your position on cockroach, the cockroach
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infestation at the Motel 6 and wherever, you know, like, oh,
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they've researched it. They've got a game plan.
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And it's like, you know, I feel like that's translated to a
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degree with the help of social media to everybody.
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Like, everybody's got a stinking opinion about everything, you
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know? Yeah, and, you know, even like,
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I think we were laughing during the, I think it was during COVID
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or something, you know, and, and everybody's opining on, on, you
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know, what should be done. And, you know, so I, I was like
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some kind of meme or something like, well, I'm an expert on,
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you know, vaccine strategy. I'm an expert on health.
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And, you know, like everybody's an expert on everything now
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because they've all got opinions and they read something
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somewhere, you know? And I say they, I'm probably in
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that boat too, but it's like, it's exhausting.
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No, I like that idea a lot. Hey, I'm running for president.
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I get 8 things that I really care about and the rest of it,
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look, the government's working, OK.
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I'm not going to blow everything up.
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I'm going to leave well enough alone.
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Congress has responsibility. They got to figure out who, how
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to pay for stuff. And but these are the 8 things I
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really care about and that I know about and that I'm
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interested in. And so you're not going to pin
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me in the corner on, you know, who's the Prime Minister of
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Tajikistan? I don't know.
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I got a State Department to handle that.
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Like, we'll figure that out. Yeah, that would be awesome.
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So we've established that the political dialogue over the
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holidays is unavoidable, so it's ubiquitous.
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Now you're stuck talking politics.
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How do you navigate that? I guess a question I'd throw out
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a rhetorical question. Are political disagreements over
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the holidays really about the subject matter, or are they
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about something else? It's a good question, I think.
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What do you mean by something else?
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I mean, I I hear you and I think I agree with you.
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But in some ways our politics are deductive now rather than
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inductive. Like we start with a given
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premise. I'm a Democrat, therefore X&Y&Z,
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rather than starting, you know, how do I feel about food stamps?
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How do I feel about healthcare costs?
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How do I feel about immigration? How do I feel about drug
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shipments from Venezuela? And then working my way backward
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to what my opinions are. We start with the, we start with
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the given I'm on Team A or Team B and Team A or team B.
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Believe this and you know you you don't do that always you do
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sometimes I don't think I do that always but I certainly do
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sometime fall in line with the team.
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I think that's more typical today then maybe in the past.
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I remember growing up, you know, I, we grew up in a Republican
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family in the era of Reagan and people were pretty, you know, in
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general supportive of what was going on.
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But that didn't mean that everybody was just sycophantic.
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Everything the guy does is great.
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You know, there was lots of eye rolling about stuff and dumb
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things that cabinet officers did and, and it wasn't a monolith
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that that people fell into. In fact, that's really risky
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because the politicians of either side don't have to fear
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the push back of their own party.
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That I mean IA 100% believe that the polarization is a creation
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of the system to protect the system.
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So I did a little, I was just doing some spitballing on the
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subject and I, you know, I'll admit I use ChatGPT, but I was
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just trying to come up with some ideas around the discussion
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topic and I thought this was a really good angle.
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Is it said holiday political arguments aren't really about
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politics. They're about status, identity
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and who feels like they're losing ground.
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And I I thought about that and I think.
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Especially that last, I think, but yeah, yeah.
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And honestly, that might be the biggest thing because I think a
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lot of times, you know, OK, you walk into a situation, I believe
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this and or, you know, let's use a analog of of sports.
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I'm a, I actually had to take a wedding.
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It's true. I had to take a wedding vow to
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root for the Dallas Cowboys. So that's probably my hardest
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wedding vow to uphold. But, you know, over 15 years
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now, I've gotten to become a fan.
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And so, you know, and they're a polarizing team.
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I mean, a lot of people love them.
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A lot of people hate them. I I have not found anybody
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that's like lukewarm about the Cowboys.
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You know, it's one or the other, But when you get around a hater,
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you know, and you're just hearing that, well, he's an
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idiot and he sucks and he's a jerk, you know, and they're
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like, oh, that's my team. You're you're you're insulting
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my team. And you know, in the one hand
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you, you step back and be like, why the hell do I care?
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Or what somebody thinks of the Dallas Cowboys?
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I mean, they don't care what I think.
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But at the same time, if you entrench yourself on that team
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and you've and your identity to some degree is around that team,
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well, because, you know, I got the my best friend who's a
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roommate at the Academy. Well, he hates the Cowboys and
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he's always like loving to rub it in.
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And so at the beginning of a game, you know, I'll text out or
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like go Cowboys. And, you know, then we get
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crushed and he loves it as always.
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They stock, you know, but it's like, it's like, you're right.
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There's like this identity thing wrapped into it where like,
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well, I don't want to, I don't want to have somebody insult me.
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I'm going to tell these son of the bitches that I got it right,
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you know, And I, I, I think that really relates to politics.
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Yeah, the who's losing ground? Man, I think that is so
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interesting. And ultimately I think it really
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does determine things. But this is interesting to me.
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I, I, I may be out to lunch on this, but you I don't know if I
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want to, I don't want to have a whole argument side rail what
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we're trying to talk about. But at least in the short run,
15:27
we've talked about the income and education flop, flip flop of
15:32
the parties. We've talked about where the
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where, where people are voting by income distribution in the
15:38
country. I I think you, you can't deny
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that the upper 10 to 20% of this country in terms of wealth have
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done phenomenally well, not just during Trump, but also Trump won
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and Biden too, you know, the last 10 years.
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Yeah, Yeah. I mean, it's been it's been a
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bonanza for people that have some wealth, especially the last
16:10
three or four years for people that struggle with their income.
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The pace of inflation has been crushing to people.
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And I think what you would say is that given enough time, the
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economic approach that Trump is taking should result in better
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conditions for those people. I don't know where to put words
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in your mouth, but I think that's probably what you would
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say. But in the short run, I don't
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like it's, it's been tough for people.
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And I wonder how that you know, how much how much runway does
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Trump get to change things for the people that voted for him
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that are struggling financially? Well, I filled up.
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At the gas tank this week and it was 2O3.
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I haven't seen $2.00 gasoline in a long time.
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So I don't, I mean, that's a very anecdotal example, but I
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think there has been progress. And but at the same time, it's
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kind of like the conversation we had before at one time about
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the, the burger at Chili's got raised to $15 over the overcode.
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It's never coming back to $13. You know.
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So there's there is an element of the prices.
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I mean inflation is way down from a rate standpoint.
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I mean, I think it's currently down to like below 3%, but it's,
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unless you have deflation as a nation, like unless your CPI
17:44
goes backwards, the price aren't going to come down and a
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backwards CPI isn't necessarily a benefit of to anybody, you
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know, So it's kind of AI feel like there's a bit of a, a red
17:57
herring and and whether that's been propagated by the right or
18:01
the left, I mean, I think you can make arguments both ways,
18:04
but it's like you're going to reduce the relative inflation
18:07
and I think that's been done, but you're not going to bring
18:10
prices back to where they were five years ago.
18:14
You know on something you mentioned gas.
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I have no idea what the price of gasoline is.
18:19
Number 1 I fill up once a month, but it is highly subsidized in
18:23
my state anyway. I have no idea how much gas
18:26
cost, and gas is a very highly, very volatile pricing thing.
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But to your point, the menu at a restaurant is not volatile.
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They're a little slow to raise when it starts, but once they
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raise, they ain't turning it back.
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And well, let's try to drift back to topic, and I'll throw a
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couple things out there. If you're, dear listener, headed
18:52
into a family situation. I got to tell you, Kyle, this
18:56
podcast has been a breath of fresh air to me because it has
19:01
forced me to listen to what you're saying about issues.
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And that's a surprisingly elusive skill in our world today
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because, you know, usually you don't listen to the other
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people, even when we've had our most contentious times.
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You know, out of respect for you, I feel like I have to
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listen to your argument even when it lands on me like nails
19:29
on a chalkboard and let you finish your statement.
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I think we do decent at that here, not interrupting each
19:35
other. And it it can be hard, but boy,
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I think that's foundational to getting along.
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No wonder we're not going to get along when our YouTube feed is
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pulled with people that are taking out of context things out
19:52
of context. Yeah.
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Well, and I think, well, two things.
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One, it work. One of the reasons it works for
20:01
us is, you know, we genuinely like each other and we're, you
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know, we have respect for one another.
20:08
We love each other. So like, I'm not the whole
20:13
losing ground bit. I'm not really worried about
20:17
losing ground because even if, you know, if I was a flat
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earther and my whole world view was proven wrong and I look like
20:28
a complete idiot, I'd still be your brother.
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And you, you know, like, like there's no like when you get
20:36
into that thing of losing ground, it's like, well, I
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don't, I don't care if I, I can lose all the ground to you.
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It doesn't matter. You're my brother.
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You know, there's it's like a safe space to a degree.
20:47
I think, though, with some people, it's it's not safe
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because you if you lose that tug of war and you get drugged over
20:57
the other side, the other side may just humiliate you and stomp
21:00
all over you may have that feel emotionally.
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And so I think it's got, there's got to be a level of trust and
21:08
relationship there or else I mean it is a problem.
21:13
Well, and by the same token, live by the sword, die by the
21:17
sword. I think that we all need to you
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know, there have been times too when I think I I think I was
21:27
trying to think of an example, but you know, where you kind of
21:32
acknowledge that you saw validity is something that I saw
21:36
or there been, you know, like there is no percentage in me
21:41
trying to to gloat if I win my point, you know, this, this,
21:47
this thing own the libs. Look, I know that there are
21:53
plenty of people on the left that can be a little shrill and
21:56
annoying. I I but the smack down and
22:00
humiliation of people as like a jousting is silly.
22:05
Yeah. So I feel there's, there's that
22:08
piece of it. And then the other piece is to
22:10
me is just you got to somehow put yourself in a, a neutral
22:18
zone where you say, no matter what the other person says about
22:24
my opinion, my view, my quote UN quote team, it's not he's not
22:33
attacking me, he's attacking it. But I think those two kind of go
22:37
hand in hand because if if you're in a relationship with
22:40
somebody who's just attacking you, are they really arguing
22:44
about politics or are they attacking you?
22:46
I never feel that like you're attacking me.
22:48
I feel like we're beating the bushes of the subject, but I
22:53
don't know, I, I do think people have to go on guard into
22:57
situations because, you know, hopefully people have great
23:00
relationships with their family members, but the reality is
23:03
their family dynamics that are much more, you know, forget
23:08
about politics. It's not a a nice interaction,
23:13
you know. Yeah, I think that's a good
23:15
point. I guess I would also argue that
23:19
some some humility is good for all of us, and I think it helps
23:24
a little bit to recognize other than about 538 households,
23:31
Christmas dinners and maybe a few, maybe dozen more for like
23:35
cabinet officers, whether you win or Uncle Fred wins the
23:41
argument, is he going to change anything?
23:44
On the planet, you know. What I mean, like, none of us
23:47
have any power, which, you know, I mean, we got our votes and,
23:52
you know, but you know what I mean?
23:54
Like, yeah, like the stakes are pretty low over Christmas dinner
24:00
about who's on what side. Well, and seems like the other
24:05
ground. It's almost like you, you can
24:07
write a few ground rules, a manifesto of sorts, ground rules
24:14
going into a family thing. But like, to me, the first rule
24:20
ought to be that you got to familiarize you with yourself.
24:23
No matter what the hell you say, you're not changing anybody's
24:28
opinion about anything. No, they're all going to leave,
24:31
probably. If you get an argument, they're
24:33
probably going to leave with a stronger opinion about whatever
24:36
their position is then agreeing with you, you know?
24:41
I will also say that I like to think you, you, you have to
24:47
judge this. But before we started down this
24:50
path, I would hope, cross my fingers, I would hope that you
24:55
would say that I was at least somewhat reflective about, you
25:04
know, that I didn't go into everything like I knew it all
25:08
and like my side had it all figured out.
25:10
And I think that you really have to have, especially in these
25:15
days of curated media where, you know, everything has been
25:18
filtered before it gets to you, have a little skepticism about
25:23
what you quote UN quote know. It never ceases to surprise me
25:28
when you bring up, it doesn't happen as often, but you'll
25:31
bring up something, something that was a big story that I
25:37
literally knew nothing about and had to Google it afterwards to
25:41
figure out what you were talking about.
25:43
I think the Cracker Barrel logo, I heard from you first that was
25:49
not on my feed cause none of my tribe cares.
25:54
And but that should tell me something, right?
25:56
If there are things that are affecting the entire, you know,
25:59
large swath the populace that I have no idea they even happened,
26:04
that's a little worrisome. And you got to be self self
26:08
aware in that way. Yeah, well, and that's one of
26:12
the cool things about family get togethers.
26:16
I mean, I guess you can look at the family get together as a
26:19
challenge of this thing, but you can also look at it like this is
26:22
an opportunity to get some diverse perspectives that I
26:25
wouldn't have gotten because families, you know, somebody can
26:29
live in one place and somebody can live in another and they're
26:32
probably getting way different feeds and different people, you
26:36
know, And if if you were to go into these situations with a
26:39
hey, maybe I'll learn something, you know, wow, that'd be if
26:44
everybody went into a conversation thinking that like,
26:48
man, that'd be a way different dialogue.
26:50
And if all you learn seriously, I mean, I think this is a
26:54
genuine suggestion. If all you, if you go in with
26:59
that open mind and if all you learn is a little bit about how
27:05
the ecosystem works on a side other than your own.
27:10
And it might be a good thing. You know, you're not going to
27:14
fix every situation. But discussions rather than
27:19
arguing about the core of something that is spun different
27:23
ways to different ones of us. I always find it interesting
27:26
asking you, how is your media sphere reporting on this?
27:31
What are people, what are you hearing?
27:32
What are people saying? And that's really illuminating.
27:36
And that's in some ways that seems to me a little less
27:39
confrontational, Like I haven't heard about that.
27:43
Tell me what the what the back story is on this, that there was
27:47
an auto pen. Yeah, they all use an auto pen.
27:52
And but like, where is where is that a big deal?
27:56
And and where is that coming from?
27:58
Where are you? What?
27:58
Tell me about what the discussion is about like that
28:01
you know that openness and receptivity and making a
28:05
discussion about sources as a part of that is is I think going
28:11
to be really interesting to. People.
28:13
Well, was I telling you about this?
28:15
I'm trying to remember who we were talking to and said this.
28:19
And I thought it was awesome. And it was somebody taught.
28:22
We weren't talking about politics, but they were talking
28:24
about, you know, whenever I'm talking to somebody new, I try
28:27
to go 15 minutes into the conversation before I ever
28:31
mentioned anything about myself. I try to keep them going for 15
28:36
minutes about them and their thoughts and their background.
28:40
And, you know, and if you went into a conversation similar like
28:44
that, like, I'm going to see how much time I can get out of them.
28:48
And honestly, if you're worried about political discourse to
28:53
some degree, some people, you know, in some of these
28:55
situations, they just need to get the crap out of their
28:57
system. And if you sat there and drug
29:00
them out for 15 minutes, you might get them to spew all their
29:04
stuff out. And then, you know, it might be
29:07
a lot easier conversation after that too.
29:10
Well, I think that's actually a really good point.
29:12
And I wonder if 15 minutes isn't a sweet spot because I got 5
29:19
minutes of raging bitching about this country at any given point
29:24
in time. I mean, I can really.
29:27
I, I can really spin a narrative of the doom of Western society
29:33
for about 5 minutes, but then I get tired of that at some point,
29:37
you know, like I don't, I don't have 15 uninterrupted minutes of
29:44
everything is broken. And you know, if you kind of run
29:48
out that clock with people, then you, I thought, I think what you
29:52
just said is brilliant that people got like they want to get
29:57
out what's eating at them. If you give them that, well, now
30:02
we can talk about things. Well, and you know, families a
30:06
little different, but like whenever we have a get together
30:09
with people, if we're having people over, I don't mind
30:13
talking politics, but like I don't want to create an
30:16
uncomfortable situation. So I often will try to, you
30:19
know, if, if I feel like there's a political angle, I want to get
30:23
them sharing early. Because if they come at it and
30:27
they come with your viewpoint, you know, I'm probably going to
30:30
be like, yeah, yeah, I know. It's crazy what's going on.
30:32
You know, like, because you know, I don't want to create
30:35
like, but then if if they go the opposite.
30:38
Oh yeah, you're right. But you know, the problem is
30:41
because it's so polarized right now.
30:43
Like I don't want to be the guy that leads with.
30:47
Well. I mean, Trump 28, right?
30:49
I mean, you know, you know, so you want to.
30:54
Get. I think that helps too, to kind
30:56
of get the lay of the land a little bit well.
31:00
I've actually seen you in action doing this and you're you're
31:03
really good at it, kind of. Yeah, you you'll pick the like
31:08
you'll pick the underdog and, you know, kind of just level out
31:13
the level out the fight to kind of throw a little, a little edge
31:18
to the other side. The other thing that I've seen
31:20
you do is you'll take a position that's far enough out that
31:25
everybody is like what you know, that's a challenge.
31:31
That's a challenge anymore because like, the ability to
31:35
just lob that extremist hang grenade into it, It is a very,
31:40
it is a very effective tool. You know, you've got people that
31:44
are, you know, they're arguing back and forth about the things
31:48
that we do argue back and forth. You know, should there be a
31:52
Department of Education or not? And, you know, you start with
31:56
like, I think we ought to teach eugenics in schools, you know,
32:02
like the kind of thing that everybody is really like.
32:06
Yeah, No, no, I don't. I can't go with you there.
32:10
It reminds me of that. Yeah, I'm sure you've seen the
32:14
movie Borat. But when he's when he's doing
32:17
the, he's at the rodeo and he's like, we believe in America.
32:23
We believe in killing every last Iraqi, you know, and the people
32:28
like, whoa, whoa, wait, wait a second, you know?
32:32
I think that scene is brilliant because it starts out with
32:36
cheers and like the longer he goes and the banning the crowd
32:42
and they're like, wait, what did he what did he just say?
32:48
And just watching the enthusiasm way that bad.
32:54
OK, well, and just, and that too, just a sense of humor and,
33:02
you know, to your point, you're going to learn something from
33:04
somebody else that they bring to the table.
33:07
And then, you know, you're probably not right.
33:10
I'm not right. Nobody's really got it
33:12
completely figured out. But I think part of the problem,
33:17
what I often see in these family dynamics is I feel like we both
33:22
have kind of that introspective kind of objective view.
33:27
You're going to run into Uncle Fred, who's wearing the mega hat
33:31
that is, you know, Fox News at volume 100, and he can't change
33:37
it or vice versa. The liberal side, you're going
33:40
to get the exact opposite. Everybody's Hitler.
33:42
And it's like, you know, those are the people you don't want to
33:46
have an argument with. I mean, you're better off
33:48
keeping them completely. Hey, let's talk about botanical
33:53
stuff, you know, or something, you know?
33:55
Yeah, not. Not botanicals.
33:57
That might be marijuana. Maybe, I don't know you, you're
34:01
going to you're going to argue cannabis with Uncle Fred.
34:06
You know who I'm talking about too.
34:07
In our family, I'm not going to say a name, but a family friend
34:11
who I remember, we were up at the cabin one time and he's
34:15
railing on you on abortion or something, you know, and he just
34:18
can't. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:22
You know, And it's like, dude, we don't need to have that fight
34:26
here, you know? But like some people cannot turn
34:29
it off for the life of them. Yeah, it it's interesting.
34:33
And you wonder why, why are you so invested in this?
34:38
I mean, again, I go back to my the stakes are low kind of a
34:43
thing. It's really difficult for me to
34:46
imagine a legislative outcome of our government that would be
34:50
worth jeopardizing my relationship with you.
34:53
Yeah. You and I love to throw down on
34:56
this stuff and long before like people were losing their minds
35:00
over politics, we lost our. There was a drive from Boise, ID
35:06
to Salt Lake City via Wendover that was fairly involved in
35:13
terms of dialogue. And, you know, this is long
35:16
before Trump ever thought about being president.
35:19
So yeah. Yeah.
35:20
But but we. Was that the same trip?
35:23
Was that the same trip that I got gazpacho and Gestapo?
35:29
Confused with each other? No, because the screaming
35:34
between, yeah, between Wendover and Salt Lake, That was just you
35:38
and me. We had the rest of the fan.
35:40
OK. But you know, in truth, we've
35:47
always enjoyed sparring about that stuff.
35:51
And it's it's been a topic of interest.
35:54
It is, it is a it's a hard thing for people.
35:57
And it's especially hard when you've got A and I and I don't
36:00
want to be that person. You got somebody in your family
36:03
who's the odd one out. I'm by far a minority in our
36:07
family, but I don't want to be the one that some people don't
36:11
like talking about this, and I don't want to be the one that,
36:14
yeah, that just drags everybody into it.
36:18
That's not healthy for anybody. But I mean, I think we've always
36:22
enjoyed to some degree, the sparring, you know, and it's,
36:28
it's more like a, you know, and I think, I think that kind of
36:34
sparring you'd like to do even when you were on the other side
36:36
of the fence. You know, we, we've kind of
36:38
played with that a little bit. I think also in general, our
36:43
family's always been very politically interested.
36:45
Kind of like I said, 30 years ago, a lot of people weren't
36:48
talking about politics. We were always talking about the
36:50
politics. That was always a big part of
36:52
our family dialogue. And I always laugh because my
36:54
wife, one of the first time she was with the with the family,
36:58
we're all because, you know, mom and dad used to be in the house
37:03
and there was like this family room and we would, you'd go up
37:05
there for a holiday and it's like, you know, you're doing
37:08
time in that family room, just swinging it the whole time.
37:11
But sessions up there one time and my wife was telling, you
37:16
know, she just tells a story because our sister says, go
37:22
around the room, tell us your top three first ladies and why,
37:25
you know, and everybody's going around and and my wife is like,
37:29
I don't know that I know more than three.
37:31
So, yeah. But you know, we've been very
37:36
much into that. But, you know, that reminds me
37:39
of another thing too, that I think part of what happens in
37:44
these family dynamics too, and that some people feel can feel
37:49
insulted and and that's something, you know, I should
37:53
try to avoid. But I think depending on the
37:55
dynamics of the family, you know, we've talked about this
37:59
before and some of it is the current political climate where
38:04
if for instance, hypothetically you had a bunch of people that
38:07
worked at a university and they were with a family of people
38:11
that, you know, another part of the family that was maybe a more
38:15
of a working class family and not super focused on education.
38:20
Very likely that working class family, they might be, you know,
38:25
in today's environment, they could be Trump voters and
38:29
somebody the highly educated, maybe more liberal.
38:32
And there is a like a, a class versus class and an education
38:37
versus education thing that happens.
38:39
And sometimes it becomes like a condescension element of, well,
38:43
you're just my dumb relative that doesn't know better.
38:46
It's like, I think that's an angle that I, I think it's hard
38:51
for people, very hard. Absolutely.
38:53
And I will say that that is in my mind has been the core
39:01
mistake that the, that the left has made.
39:06
I mean, you know, a lot of mistakes, but I, I, I go back
39:10
to, well, I'm going to answer the question in a short or the
39:14
respond in a short way, but then I'm going to Babble a little
39:17
bit. I think that the left has a huge
39:21
condescension problem. And I think that a lot of people
39:27
on the left like drink their own kool-aid.
39:30
They think that we've got it figured out.
39:32
It is really dangerous. This, this is a, this is not
39:35
just a political thing. This is what I think.
39:38
This is what Jesus meant when he talked about the rich young
39:41
ruler. The problem with wealth is that
39:44
you start to believe your own press, that you consider your
39:49
success to be evidence of being right, and you become less self
39:56
critical. And I think the condescension
39:59
from the left. I felt it for a long time.
40:02
I don't think I've ever felt it more blatantly.
40:05
Clearly the day after the 20/20/2024 election when Trump
40:11
won and I was like, Oh my gosh, we have.
40:15
We have alienated. A huge swath of you know, the
40:19
the young men who you know what I mean like this.
40:22
This was not a a foregone conclusion outcome.
40:27
But I think the left has been tone deaf about the way we talk
40:30
about people dismissive and condescending.
40:34
I go back to Hillary Clinton has the ability to say good morning
40:40
and it sound condescending. But when she teamed up with
40:46
Debbie Wasserman Schultz and they stabbed Bernie Sanders in
40:52
the back in 2016, like this is rolled downhill from there.
40:58
That that is a huge problem for the left and it's going to be
41:03
insurmountable if they can't get out from underneath that.
41:07
You know what's so ironic about that, too?
41:10
You mentioned Hillary Clinton. That problem was much more of a
41:14
problem on the right 20-30 years ago.
41:18
And Clinton was the one that kind of changed that, you know,
41:23
because Clinton originally had like this alternative viewpoint
41:28
against the elite people that had everything figured out, you
41:31
know? And so it's so funny that like
41:35
he was so relatable to, you know, the guy sweep down the guy
41:41
sweeping the floors, yet his wife is not remotely relatable.
41:45
But was she then or did she change?
41:48
You know, I don't, I don't know. She never seemed to be super
41:50
personable even back then. But I don't know.
41:53
Well, and I, you know, I can't leave this all at Hillary's
41:55
feet, but I think that you know what I mean when I say that you,
41:59
you, you, you can just see it patently obvious.
42:02
The other thing that's interesting, not to dwell on
42:04
this, but talk about Bill Clinton, I would say a lot of
42:07
this demographic shift to the left for the highly educated and
42:14
more financially elite, that all happened under Clinton too.
42:17
He chose, he rejected kind of tip O'Neill Labour Democrat kind
42:27
of standards. And Bill Clinton, the Democrat
42:31
puts Robert Rubin in as the secretary of the trade.
42:34
The guy was the chair of Goldman Sachs and balanced the budget
42:39
and welfare reform. And you tick off these things
42:43
and, and Trump's, I mean, Clinton's version of liberalism
42:49
was very palatable to the elites in the way that Teddy Kennedy's
42:55
version of liberalism was not. Yeah.
42:58
It's like he did it. It's like he won with one
43:01
demographic and then kind of flipped the script over 8 years.
43:05
Yeah. Yeah, and some people would say
43:08
you probably would disagree, but different dynamics.
43:13
But that's a part of what I see with Trump.
43:15
I think Trump has ridden the, the disgruntled and
43:21
disenfranchised who wanted action.
43:25
They wanted people. They wanted the swamp drained
43:27
and the bumps thrown out. And the, you know, that that may
43:32
or may not be, it's certainly been a better time to be a
43:36
billionaire over the last. Well, again, I can't say very
43:40
many years because Biden's right in there.
43:42
But over the last 10 years, it, it, it was far better to be a
43:45
billionaire than someone on minimum wage.
43:48
And then I think, what kind of a statement is that?
43:51
Like what period in history would it have been preferable to
43:54
be someone earning minimum wage to being a billionaire?
43:58
Yeah. Well, I think the final piece of
44:01
advice I would derive from the title of our podcast, the role
44:10
of alcohol in providing for civil family discourse.
44:16
It's a pretty narrow therapeutic index.
44:18
We of course, are think that having a drink or two is a, a
44:23
pretty good, can be a pretty good way to loosen things up.
44:28
Probably 5 or 6, not so much. And so if you decide to have a,
44:34
if you decide to have a cocktail with your loved ones, maybe,
44:36
maybe one or two. The difference between a, you
44:43
know, taking the edge off the fiery political dialogue and the
44:49
911 call for domestic violence. It's a.
44:52
It's a pretty short path, you know, so be careful there.
44:58
Well, and with that, dear listeners, cheers to you and a
45:03
Merry Christmas and a happy season to you and your families.
45:08
Yeah, same. Enjoy this time and we're
45:11
honored that you listen to our podcast and we'll probably do
45:15
another one over the holidays, but I think this was kind of our
45:18
we want to do this in prep of Christmas, but the next one
45:21
might be, you know, somewhere after and that vicinity.
45:25
Shortly thereafter, hopefully. Yeah.
45:29
We do appreciate you listen. It's it's always great to hear
45:33
from people. Send us a note.
45:36
It's really fun to hear from people who listen and gives us a
45:41
lot of satisfaction. We've enjoyed this process
45:43
immensely and we're grateful for all of you.
45:47
And we would really love topics too.
45:50
You know, we, we try not to just do topics of the Daily News
45:55
grind because that can be kind of monotonous, but because
45:59
we'll, I, I would bring up the E word again, but I.
46:04
Knew you were going to do it. I knew you were going to do it.
46:08
So I won't say it, but please, we'd love to hear your topics.
46:12
Maybe we'll get something a little more refreshed the the
46:15
the normal day-to-day. That'd be great.
46:17
Indeed, Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas.
46:26
Hey, thanks for joining us on this episode of Bourbon and Rum
46:28
Podcast. We hope you enjoyed it.
46:30
Remember to subscribe on your favorite platform and leave us a
46:34
review. Your feedback helps us keep the
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Let us know what you think. Let us know what you want to
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hear. And until next time, cheers.