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The Natural Order w/ Jayme Brock · Urantia Radio

0:20
I am very happy to have on your Rancho radio this time up.
0:24
Jamie Brock has written a book called Recipe of Jesus or the
0:28
Recipe of Jesus. And we're going to delve into
0:30
the Urantia book quite a bit. And also about this philosophy
0:35
that has grabbed her attention from a man who has we talked a
0:41
lot about natural order, the natural order of things.
0:45
And she's a big fan of Mark Paseo, who has a website called
0:50
One on Earth is Happening. And and it has a lot to do
0:53
actually with the Urantia book, a lot of ties, not ties to it,
0:58
but philosophies that are shared.
1:00
And here to sort of delve into all of this is Jamie Brock.
1:04
And thank you so much. How are you?
1:07
I'm doing well. Thank you.
1:09
Thank you for having me on today.
1:10
Appreciate it. Well, no problem.
1:12
I think I might have run across your readings or somehow I came
1:17
into contact to some your material.
1:19
I think you sent me something and I'm very fascinated.
1:22
There's a, there's a quote in the Arantia book and I don't
1:25
know, and I might butcher it completely, but it goes
1:27
something like God's way is the right way.
1:31
And it's not because it's God's way.
1:34
It's because it's the best way. And God only does, you know, the
1:39
best. And they use that in correlation
1:42
with that, which is that benefits the most people for the
1:47
most amount of time. So using that sort of rule to go
1:51
by. That's why I was just interested
1:55
in learning about natural order and how that plays to a lot of
1:58
the problems that we're having in our world.
2:00
We've moved away just as a, for example, we all had to change
2:05
our clocks ahead this week, right?
2:07
And I was reading this morning about how it completely ruins
2:11
every human being's circadian rhythm because now your body is
2:16
is either getting up too early and that's not good.
2:20
And it causes a sort of a shift in your health.
2:23
And then, of course, you know, natural sunlight is a very
2:27
important thing. And we kind of, you know, the
2:29
earth didn't change. We did.
2:31
And now we're one step out of step with the natural order,
2:35
even in the way that we digest food and all the processing that
2:39
that they put into it, right? So you've got people that are
2:42
sick and America is one of the sickest countries in the world,
2:47
even though we have the most we spent on on healthcare.
2:49
So there's all these things that seem to point toward when we
2:54
move away from the natural order, that's when things start
2:58
to go wrong. So tell me about natural order,
3:03
your thoughts and and how you sort of got on this ideological
3:07
path or philosophical path. OK, well, a number of years ago,
3:17
as I'm watching all of all of these things in our world play
3:20
out, I'm, I'm always studying and, and searching and trying to
3:24
understand. And I came across Mark Passio's
3:28
work and it really, it really rang true for me, gave me some
3:36
answers that I, I did. And it's tied into a lot of
3:41
things that I already knew. But he he, as I continued
3:47
listening, I, I came across as natural law seminars.
3:52
And every time I listen to somebody ever since I got the
3:57
Urantia book, the Urantia book is constantly playing in the
4:01
back of my mind. And every, every bit of
4:03
information that I eve kind of goes up against the Urantia book
4:09
to help me discern whether it's true or probably just, or
4:16
whatever. Marc Passio's work just rang
4:20
true so many times, just not always 100%, but really, really
4:25
close. And when he got to the natural
4:29
law part or when I got to that part of his, his work, the life
4:35
of Jesus just was everything he was saying was going up against
4:40
the life of Jesus. And it all started coming clear
4:44
for me as to what Jesus did and what he was showing us.
4:50
And so I think the important thing to to understand, so the
4:54
premise of my book is the recipe of Jesus.
4:57
So the idea is imagine that you're watching Julia Child make
5:03
a recipe, but you don't have a list of the ingredients.
5:09
You don't have the sound. There's no way for you to know
5:13
what she's making or how she's putting together except for by
5:17
what you're able to see. And then to add to that, chunks
5:20
of the video are missing. So would you be able to
5:24
replicate the recipe? It would be very difficult.
5:28
Probably not. I mean, you might be able to be
5:30
like, oh, yeah, there's, there's definitely butter she used.
5:33
I could tell that was butter. I don't know how much there was
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some brown powder. I don't know if that was
5:40
cinnamon or human or I don't know what the brown powder was.
5:44
I don't know how much that would.
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So you, you really struggle to put that recipe together.
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And that's kind of what we're looking at with Jesus because he
5:53
showed us the way. He didn't tell us the way.
5:57
He didn't describe it to us. I mean, he kind of did in parts,
6:03
but if we don't know what we're looking at, we don't have the
6:07
ingredients list and we don't have the instructions on how to
6:12
do it. And we aren't really discerning
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what he was actually showing us. And so when, when I, when I came
6:25
across the natural law work, that to me was the ingredient
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list, I could see clearly. Oh, oh, that's what he was.
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That's what he meant. That's what he's describing.
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That's why he's living the way he's living.
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That's why he's making those decisions.
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And then and then it just all started coming together for me.
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And the reason, the initial reason I wrote the book was just
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to prove that theory to myself was like, OK, I think this is
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what he's doing. And so as I was putting it all
7:01
together, watching it all add up and match up beautifully, I was
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like, oh, this is what the regulators were trying to tell
7:15
us. And I think, I, I think with
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only having the showing what he did and then just, it's so open,
7:28
just so much interpretation and which is why we have so many
7:33
churches out there and, and so many disagreements.
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But even with the Urantia book, we really don't have a structure
7:40
to, to offer anybody and say, this is what he was doing.
7:45
This is, this is the way we should go.
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This, these, these are the laws that matter the most that we
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need to understand in our lives so that we can truly follow him,
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so that we can truly build a society that reflects what what
8:02
he was teaching. So that's kind of what I did.
8:08
OK, so you're I want to just say the name of the book again that
8:13
that Jamie Brock has written is called the the recipe of Jesus.
8:17
And there's a couple of statements that you made, one
8:22
being that the the Gospels or the Bible or the way that we
8:26
view Jesus today is only a partial picture.
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And using the Julia Child example, you know, he made this
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wonderful meal, but we don't really know the recipe.
8:35
We only know a little bit of it. And your, your belief is that
8:39
the value of the Urantia book is that it fills in that missing
8:44
gap of information, which I totally agree with.
8:47
Would you say that's a pretty correct statement?
8:50
The correct statement. Yeah, and.
8:52
So, but even with the your answer book, the revelators
8:55
were, I just think they're just beautiful in, in honoring Jesus,
9:01
showing us the way they showed us too, but they didn't, they
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didn't delineate natural law for us.
9:09
They, they talked about it, they talked around it.
9:11
They kind of gave ideas, but they never said and you know,
9:15
and Jesus did this because he was following, you know.
9:19
OK, so let's delve into the natural law aspect of things.
9:22
Give me a couple of good examples of what Jesus did that
9:27
that sort of showcases that he was well aware of natural law
9:31
and that's sort of a guiding principle in his life, not
9:34
violating and took much to the consternation of his apostles
9:39
who really wanted him to perform, you know, miracles.
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And he would be like, no, I, I, I that's not now the water of
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the wine wasn't even a, a, a violation of natural law.
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And that is explained in the Urantia book.
9:52
So you're right, there are a lot of references to where Jesus was
9:56
given the opportunity. And even, yeah, even the water
9:59
in the wine part it that. I don't know if when you first
10:04
read that part, it made me laugh.
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I thought it was kind of funny that that happened and he was
10:10
totally called off guard and he was just really troubled by it.
10:13
But even in my book, I talk about that point because there
10:19
there's individual spiritual laws of progression that you
10:26
must travel. And in that, in that
10:32
progression, there's areas of, of things that you need to learn
10:37
how to control that like you, you achieve new levels of power
10:42
and ability. And, and he was, he was still
10:47
learning how to control it all at which, you know, which the
10:50
rancher book didn't omit. And he said, yeah, he was still
10:54
trying to figure this out. And, and it was a little
10:56
frustrating for him. And I think that's beautiful
10:59
that they showed that human side to him.
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Like this wasn't easy for him to do either, but it's doable.
11:06
And so yeah, that that was part of part of it.
11:11
So. So there's 22 levels here that
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that my book covers there. And and then they're called the
11:20
arcanas, the two arcanas, the, the greater arcana and the
11:26
lesser arcana. And the, it doesn't mean that
11:29
one has more value than the other, but the greater arcana is
11:35
more like the major knowledge. It refers to understanding
11:39
larger external systems like how the universe operates, like
11:43
gravity, motion, electromagnetism, and and the
11:49
physical forces. But that also the greater arcana
11:52
also includes the knowledge of the moral principles that
11:58
determine the outcomes of the actions of things.
12:05
And so these moral laws govern how behavior leads to certain
12:09
consequences. And then the minor arcana is the
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spiritual laws involve the human psyche, how how our minds
12:22
function and what drives our behavior, what happens beneath
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the surface at a subconscious level.
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And and this inner exploration has has its own set of laws and
12:34
principles. I refer to them as spiritual
12:36
laws, but just the more personal.
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So my book maps out the major arcana.
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You can clearly see that Jesus knew it, He was teaching it, He
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thoroughly understood it. And then the minor arcana where
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you see the inner life of Jesus as he was growing and developing
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those parts in the Urantia book where it talks about him
13:03
organizing his mind. I never understood what that
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meant. But when you map it to the
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spiritual laws in the minor arcana and you really start
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understanding, oh, this is what they're talking about.
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This, this is what he was doing. He, he was organizing his mind
13:23
to be more in harmony with the spiritual laws of the universe.
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And and so. Well, that's pretty deep and and
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very interesting too, because I think you're, you're right.
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There's there are laws governing every aspect of reality and and
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we know from the Urantia book that the three major realities
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are mind, matter and spirit. And in each one of those
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domains, there are, there are rules that guide to, to keep
13:54
integrity correct and for taking, for example, moral
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behavior, immoral behavior is is tends to be self-centered.
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You know, like the concept of the part in the whole, when the,
14:11
when the part goes bad, it, the repercussions are felt
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throughout the whole. The repercussions of sin, for
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example, when, when one person in the family does something
14:21
bad, everybody in the family will suffer.
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Just as in the opposite, when one person in a family or a
14:28
system does something good, then every everybody also benefits
14:33
from that action as well. So the consequences are always
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prevalent. There's always going to be a
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negative or a positive consequence to any action, any
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thought, any performance is, is it?
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But by the same token, physical laws don't have what's that
14:52
expression? I think you told me physical.
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Laws don't care. About you, in other words, if
14:56
you. Jump off a Cliff.
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You're going to die, and physical laws are not going to
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care that you die. Yeah, they're immutable.
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It doesn't matter what you think or feel.
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They're immutable. And it doesn't matter if you're
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2 and you you didn't know, you know, you were naive to the the
15:15
physical laws that if you step any further, you would fall off
15:18
the Cliff. The law of gravity is going to
15:20
act irregardless. And so if we understand those
15:26
laws, I think, I think what it's done for me is, is help me
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understand. So like you were saying, the
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laws of health. That's a good.
15:42
Example. If you're right, yeah, then
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we'll just take this this example.
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If you are violating the laws of health and then you you develop
15:51
some kind of a malady, you really have no right to pray to
15:55
God asking for some miraculous healing cure to, to, to, to your
16:03
violation of his laws. So, so it really changes when
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you understand the laws that are at play, then it really changes
16:12
your perspective. It changes your understanding of
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your own responsibility and like you are the common denominator
16:21
of your life. And so if you if you want a
16:24
better outcome in your health, then you cannot just pray for
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it. You have to act on it.
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You have to study those natural laws that govern health and put
16:37
yourself in alignment and in harmony with those laws.
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And then you'll then you'll see your malady turn around.
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But if that's the same in all of society.
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And then the trick is that a lot of these, a lot of these natural
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laws have a time delay aspect to it.
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So you might be eating junk food all the way into your 40s or 50s
17:01
and not have a problem, but in your 5th, late 50s and 60s and
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70s, you're laid up with all sorts of stuff and it's because
17:11
you were in violation for all those years.
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There's a time delay and that happens throughout society as
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well. And, and that's what tricks us
17:19
up is, is that we don't think that there's a consequence when
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in actuality there are severe consequences.
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So I forget the exact quote, but it was in the thoughts to ponder
17:31
that I get every morning from the foundation.
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One, the one the other day said sin is the attitude of an
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immature person who has been given liberty and essentially
17:43
they don't know how to, they don't know how to act
17:45
responsible. And I like that because what it
17:48
basically says is what you just said, which is there are always
17:51
repercussions. There's always going to be a
17:53
trade off if you don't go. And how do you figure out the
17:57
natural order? Here's another one.
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The Urangela says this all the time.
18:02
There's no magic mechanism to surviving mortal death except
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for the attitude of the spirit of the person.
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So you're not. In other words, you can't just
18:14
hope that when I die, you know I'm going to translate to to the
18:19
heavenly spheres. You actually have to kind of
18:22
earn it a little bit. You have to put you.
18:24
Know everybody. You have to live in harmony with
18:27
the laws that will get you there.
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And I think it's interesting because as, as I'm delving into
18:33
this and and as I've thought about Jesus years, I've often
18:38
thought, OK, he was he was the creator of our world.
18:45
He obviously at least some essence in his being remembered
18:51
all the laws that it took to create this world, even as, you
18:55
know, as a babe and as growing up and injured in the house
19:00
sign. Yeah.
19:02
And those laws would have come to his memory gradually as he's,
19:08
you know, that spot where he's observing the pot of water
19:12
boiling and the steam coming off of it and then later seeing snow
19:17
happening, just like he's observing these natural laws and
19:20
pondering really deeply on him. He's learning how the universe
19:24
works for relearning and remembering.
19:28
And so he would have known all of these laws as well.
19:31
And his whole being vibrated to the truth.
19:36
And so for him to be for him to, for this to be what he was
19:43
teaching us, this is how you live in harmony with them seems
19:48
very natural and seems more plausible than anything any of
19:53
the churches have given us. And I often wondered that like,
19:57
you know, even growing up when I was a child, just having just
20:01
the smallest inkling of, you know, you, you put your hand in
20:05
the fire, it's going to get burned.
20:07
That's a natural law. It will always happen.
20:11
And and thinking there's got to be some kind of a connection to
20:14
this and Jesus. And what he was teaching, but I
20:17
never could see it because I natural law isn't talked about
20:20
in society. It's not talked about on the
20:22
news. It's not talked about at church.
20:25
It's not talked about in politics.
20:27
It's it's not talked about anywhere.
20:29
And so it's, it's, it's very hidden from us.
20:32
It's it's occulted. It's, it's just, it's hidden.
20:37
And I finally come to a better understanding of it and, and to
20:42
really start studying it. This is what everybody needs to
20:48
be talking about. This is the structure that Jesus
20:51
was teaching us and showing us and and it and it makes sense
20:57
because this is how his whole universe operates well.
21:01
That's interesting too. Because.
21:03
His number one directive was serve others.
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And I think often about the difference between a white blood
21:11
cell and a red blood cell. You know, like if if there was a
21:14
little red, you know, indulge me for a moment here.
21:17
But let's say there's an individual little red blood
21:20
cell. And he says, you know what?
21:21
I don't feel like going, you know, up this vein or this
21:25
capillary. I'm just going to do my own
21:27
thing. And then that that is
21:30
destructive to the body. You know, if, if, if someone
21:34
within the body or the system decides that he's going to do it
21:37
his own way. Like Lucifer is a good example,
21:40
you know, but the the message of of Christ was always serve
21:44
others. So I'm inclined to believe that
21:47
every mechanism in the universe is in is in giving mode is in
21:53
producing progressive mode and stabilization mode.
21:58
And it's only when you deviate from the natural order of things
22:03
as they're established by the deities, that's when we run into
22:06
problems. So as of, for example, you want
22:09
to know why we have so many homeless people on the planet
22:12
and in and in Los Angeles who, who have become to the the point
22:15
of their life where nothing is working?
22:18
Well, what, what got them there? Mass consumerism,
22:23
overindulgence, perhaps even drugs that were issued to them
22:29
by by very highly profitable pharmaceutical companies that
22:34
care more about profits than actually curing people.
22:37
You know, that person's life is the end result not only of all
22:41
of their decisions, but but but of the circumstances that
22:45
surround societies. So we're never going to cure
22:48
that problem if we keep doing the same thing and expecting
22:52
different results. Exactly, exactly.
22:58
It's, it's going to take a, a large overhaul and I don't
23:01
expect, I don't expect society to respond to this, you know,
23:05
and, and turn it around in the next 50 years.
23:08
I, I don't expect to see it turn around in my lifetime.
23:10
I, I do, I am concerned that it will all collapse on itself just
23:15
because you can't keep doing this and the systems are already
23:20
failing. It's not sustainable because
23:22
it's in such horrible violation of natural law.
23:25
It's not sustainable. And, and my biggest concern is
23:29
can we get this information out fast enough or to enough people
23:35
that, well, twofold that if the systems collapse, yeah, if the
23:42
systems collapse, are there enough people that have this
23:45
knowledge that can rebuild it in a proper manner?
23:48
Or are we going to rebuild it this, you know, in its in its
23:51
own likeness and do this again for our great, great, great
23:54
grandchildren. And the other thing is, is, is
23:57
to get this enough out there enough to the Urantia community,
24:02
because there's other communities I want to reach out
24:04
to on this, The natural law community being one that when
24:09
these people start looking into the Urantia book side of this
24:15
with natural law and they start being curious, I want the
24:19
Urantia community to be ready to have these kind of conversations
24:23
with them. It's, it's important.
24:27
And there's a lot of people doing a lot of great work in
24:31
the, the natural law community, the voluntarism community.
24:35
There's, there's a lot of people even in the Christian
24:37
communities that the Christian Church is really struggling
24:42
because people are seeing through the charade of, you
24:45
know, it's, it's all about the money and the power or, or
24:48
whatever it is or, or this, this can't be the gospel of Jesus.
24:52
It's not, it doesn't add up to a lot of people.
24:55
And so there's a lot of people searching for the truth and, and
25:02
I'm going to reach out to them and say, I, I have something
25:05
substantial to offer you. I have something complementary
25:08
to what you're already doing. How, how, How can we get your
25:13
book? So my book is free and it is it,
25:22
it is a gift. I guess we all have to have a
25:25
gift for, for the world that we live in.
25:30
And it is found on the website recipeofjesus.com.
25:35
You can just download it. Those aren't actual.
25:39
Recipes. Like how to cook cereal?
25:42
Yeah, no, not falafels or anything like that.
25:48
What were his what were his dietary standards that would be
25:51
important to. Know yeah, you know, and that is
25:54
that is an interesting part too. And I love, I love the way Jesus
25:58
handled that because because of the, the no, you know, you don't
26:05
want to murder life. And, and so that was part of it.
26:08
And and he was the creator. Of course he doesn't want to
26:11
murder and any of his life so that he can eat it.
26:15
So he didn't have a problem, but he ate fish so that yes, I'm OK
26:18
with that. But maybe.
26:21
That's. But if he was, yes, if he was in
26:26
somebody's home or if he was, you know, growing up in his
26:30
parents home, he ate what was served and and and that goes to
26:35
the principal people first, then things.
26:37
But if he was hosting, it was always needless.
26:41
And so I always, I always thought that was pretty
26:44
profound. There was something to that.
26:47
And and so. Yeah, he abstained from alcohol,
26:51
so he knew that was a no no, But his emphasis wasn't on don't do
26:57
this, don't do that, don't do this.
26:58
No, it wasn't. No, it was more.
27:00
Like, yeah, there was always a positive and and to that, yeah,
27:07
to that point that is, that is another point that is brought up
27:11
in in the minor arcana is the positive going always, always on
27:15
the positive route and and really anchoring yourself to
27:19
love and something that was really quite profound as so when
27:24
I finished the book, it was kind of like finishing a marathon and
27:28
you're just kind of like, whoo, I'm done.
27:31
But the last couple days I've been just really kind of
27:34
reflecting back on on the book and, and seeing it in a
27:39
different light and realizing how transformative in such a
27:46
deep and profound level love is. And, and it's just a simple
27:52
word. And the revelators say, wish we
27:54
had a better word for it because it doesn't really encapsulate it
27:57
quite right. But.
27:58
You know. But love is so profound and and
28:02
the transforming power of it, if we really could hold on to it
28:07
just to see that it's at the it's at the very foundation of
28:11
all of these laws, all of them. It's love.
28:16
I, I have to interject this because I saw a meme of somebody
28:20
had posted a video of a very young child.
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It was very well done too, but it was a close up of a mommy,
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you know, up against the small child.
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And she would kiss his cheek and then she'd move back and then
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she'd kiss his cheek again. And every time this, this child
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could not have been more than two or three days old.
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I'm talking super, super infant. And the way the child responded,
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you could just see the love coming in to the child and the
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expression, the smile, the the warmth and comfort that he
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received from just such a simple act of his mother or her mother
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kissing the cheek, the soft cheek of a young child.
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And it just touched my heart. And I thought, boy, how
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contagious. And then I thought, sadly, what
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happens to a child when they don't get that and what the
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difference is between a child who who lets this energy fill
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their hearts. I can't even describe how
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touching that was. And I wish I'd saved it because
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I would watch that every morning when I start my day.
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It's profound. It's profound.
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Yeah, well anyway, so the book is called The Recipe of Jesus.
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It's free. You can go to the recipe of is
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it the recipe ofjesus.com or just recipe.
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No, it's just recipe. I took the the the off of it.
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It's just recipeofjesus.com. OK.
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And are you? Going to write more books do.
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You have other books in mind that you think you might want to
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try? Mine, I have two ideas in mind
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that the next thing I want to do is I have a friend who has a
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studio that I can do an audio recording of the book because I
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know, I know so many people really rely on audio recordings.
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They don't have time to sit and read a book.
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So I'm going to do that next. But the next thing I'd like, the
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next project I'd like to work on is distilling all these natural
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law principles into children's books and really focusing on the
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home school community. I home educated my children.
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I know what a powerful community that can be for getting truth
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out their readers. They, they're happy to study.
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They, they're searching for truth.
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And so I, I want to really market this to them, but I want
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to, I want to have children's books explaining natural law and
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teaching that. And then, and I'm open, if, if
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somebody out there that hears this has written children's
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books and think I can, I can take that on, please let me
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know, come through my website and drop me a line.
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I would, I would love to work with others on getting this more
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out there. I think my ultimate desire would
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be to have a book written kind of along the lines of Louisa May
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Alcott style writing. Just really beautiful classic
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literature based off of natural law.
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Jamie Brock and the website againrecipeofjesus.com.
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Thank you so much. The.